June 15, 2025 • 19 mins
When news broke, 11 days ago, that one of Australia’s oldest and largest fertility services implanted the wrong embryo in a woman in Melbourne, it, naturally, made headlines around the country.
But for those of us following the story, that was just the beginning. Because this mistake occurred only two months after another woman, in Queensland, gave birth to another couple’s baby, after an embryo mix up at Monash IVF.
Today, senior reporter Grant McArthur on why this industry, which offers the promise of desperately wanted children, is leaving people to feel heartbroken.
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S1 (00:02):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
June 16th. When news broke 11 days ago that one
of Australia's oldest and largest fertility services implanted the wrong
(00:22):
embryo in a woman in Melbourne, it naturally made headlines
around the country. But for those of us following the story,
that was just the beginning. Because this mistake occurred only
two months after another woman in Queensland gave birth to
another couple's baby after an embryo mix up at Monash IVF. Today,
(00:46):
senior reporter Grant McArthur on why this industry, which offers
the promise of desperately wanted children, is leaving people to
feel heartbroken. So, Grant, just to start, can you take
us through this latest issue at Monash IVF? Because the
(01:07):
Victorian health Minister has labelled it completely unacceptable. So what's happened?
S2 (01:12):
The latest incident, which is one of a string of incidents,
goes back to June 5th when a same sex couple
were having an embryo transfer because one woman wanted to
become the birth mother, but to her partner's embryo. Unfortunately,
and Monash have disclosed this publicly, they transferred the woman's
(01:34):
own embryo back into her rather than her partner's.
S3 (01:41):
Monash IVF is in damage control today, admitting to its
second embryo transfer bungle in two months.
S4 (01:49):
The fertility giant has admitted that last Thursday it transferred
the wrong embryo to a client who was expecting to
carry her same sex partners baby. The woman's own embryo
was transferred instead. And while the woman is the biological
mother of the embryo is not what the couple had
asked for in their treatment plan. It comes just two
months after a woman gave birth to a stranger's baby.
(02:12):
After Monash IVF Brisbane clinic saw her implanted with the
wrong embryo.
S2 (02:18):
Now they've announced this information and and put their hand
up to admit to the bungle. Um, partly because they
already had a lot of pressure on them, because it
was only two months since they had to admit having
done almost the same thing in Brisbane.
S1 (02:33):
Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about this because
Monash IVF was forced to admit this serious error at
a Brisbane clinic, which shockingly resulted in a Queensland woman
giving birth to a stranger's baby. So can you take
us through that case?
S2 (02:46):
Yeah. That's correct. It was only in April that they
admitted that this had happened. It had actually happened quite
a long time before that. Without giving anything away, that's
going to identify the people involved, because the end of
the day. And that's what makes this so impactful and
so important, I guess there's very much humans involved here.
S5 (03:11):
Two Australian families have been left in a traumatic and
disturbing set of circumstances after a mother unwittingly gave birth
to a stranger's baby. Both women were patients of Monash
IVF in Brisbane, with the wrong embryo implanted into one
of them and carried to term. It's rocked the industry.
S2 (03:31):
But needless to say, it actually happened quite a significant
time before where a woman was undergoing IVF treatment. She
had a transfer as normal. She's had a child and
it was only quite a significant time, like a year
or so later, that that woman was wanting to take
(03:52):
her fertility treatment to another clinic to continue. When she
went to have her eggs moved, they had to do
an audit and discovered there was an extra embryo sitting there.
They couldn't work out why And realized it actually implanted
another person's embryo in her, and as a result, the
baby that she'd been, she'd given birth to and was
(04:12):
raising wasn't her own biological child. Now they've announced that.
And then following on from that and launching an investigation
into that, we come 8 or 9 weeks later and
they have a very similar incident in Melbourne.
S1 (04:33):
Okay. Now we're going to get to this, but I
really I've got to stop you right there because we
know that with regards to the woman in Brisbane who
gave birth to a baby that was not genetically her own.
The response from Monash, I'm going to have to quote
here was Monash IVF has extended its sincere apologies to
the affected couple and we continue to support them. Now,
when I read that statement, I mean jaw dropped. Do
(04:55):
we know how both sets of parents have responded?
S2 (04:58):
As I mentioned earlier, it's obviously a very human issue.
Both families are wanting to have absolute privacy and they're
guarding that. And I think we can all appreciate why
that doesn't mean this isn't playing out. I know both
families are in talks with Monash, and there's a string
of lawyers involved, too. I think it's fair to say
(05:19):
I don't know how it's going to play out. I
don't think anybody does. I've spoken to legal experts in
this area, although that might not even be the right
saying it's an area might be going too far because
this is unique in Australia. It's never happened. The prevailing
theory is that if there was a custody issue, it
would probably come down in favour of the birth mother,
(05:45):
but there's no precedent for it. It's not overly clear.
And I mean, at a human level, you look at
it and you just think, My God, I hope this
actually doesn't end up being decided in a court. It
would be so much more palatable and, you know, potentially
salvage some sort of heartbreak if it didn't have to
get resolved in a court. If that is the case,
we'll probably never know.
S1 (06:06):
Yeah, it's absolutely heartbreaking. It's hard to take in, but
let's move on because we have to because these two
isolated incidents that we've just been talking about in Melbourne
and in Brisbane, they actually are not the only alarming
issues that have taken place at Monash IVF. Just last year,
700 families from across Australia launched a multi-million dollar class
action suit against the fertility clinic. So tell us about that.
S2 (06:29):
Yeah, this dates back 2018 2019, Monash announced it basically
hit the Holy Grail, and it had invented this test
where they could do a genetic test of an embryo
before it was implanted in somebody and pretty much say,
at least their marketing say whether it was going to
result in a pregnancy and a healthy baby or not
before it was transferred. Now, clinics around the world have
(06:51):
been working on this, trying to get this because it
would absolutely revolutionize IVF. The biggest thing that's happened in decades,
Monash went to market was May 2019, saying that they'd
been able to, um, to pull this off. The issue
is by 2020, there was some pretty serious questions being asked,
and they had to come out and admit that there
(07:14):
was problems with the test. They were getting a lot
of false negatives. It wasn't performing and as a result,
a lot of embryos, an unknown number, but a lot
of embryos that they were being told weren't viable probably were.
The end result of that means that people's chances to
have a child were being destroyed. Um, there were viable
(07:36):
embryos that that could have resulted in somebody's child that
that were destroyed and discarded, obviously a fairly large issue.
It was more than 700 families across Australia, all different states.
It's taken a long time to play out, and last
year resolved with a $56 million class action being settled
(07:58):
by Monash IVF with a a disclaimer of no responsibility
or no fault. We should say that's still being worked through.
I guess one of the questions on that is it
it kind of makes it look like a a pattern
of behavior. And there's people in the industry saying that
these three things can't be looked at in isolation. There's
there's systemic issues where the checks and balances aren't, aren't
(08:21):
being done, or at least asking if that's the case. Um,
there's also a fair bit of angst that regulators haven't
been acting on any of these. There's been one issue
after another. There's been very little regulatory action as a result.
And indeed, it's actually become more of a market issue
where Monash IVF stock price has fallen through the floor
(08:43):
and it's their shareholders who are more holding it to
account than the actual regulators.
S1 (08:49):
I mean, that is absolutely shocking. And as you said before,
we do know that this $56 million payout that Monash
IVF has given to these families, we understand that this
did come with no admission of liability on behalf of
Monash IVF. But I'm just wondering what have you heard,
if anything, from members of those families who now have
to live with that devastation of not knowing whether possibly
(09:12):
viable embryos were discarded. I mean, for those people, those
are children. Those are children they arguably very much longed
to have.
S2 (09:18):
I spoke to plenty of those families as it was happening. Indeed,
had the misfortune of telling some of those families that
the test was bungled and potentially they had been caught
up in it. They didn't know necessarily until we were
chatting to them. That goes back to when it was
still being resolved since the class actions been settled, or
(09:41):
it's still going through to being settled, those families can't talk,
which is pretty typical in fertility industry settlements. That's part
of it is there's there's an obligation on the different clinics,
not just Monash IVF, but there's obligations on all of
the fertility clinics to report any of these issues to
the regulators. It's pretty commonly accepted they don't fess up
(10:03):
to them all and commonly, and you can speak to
many different people when something happens, typically there's more of
a settlement where it's an apology through having a free
round of IVF or a discounted follow up round of
IVF to try to make good. Rather than report it
to the authorities. So again, that's playing out here a
(10:24):
little bit, where more than 700 families are receiving a settlement,
but they're not talking because they're still waiting on that
settlement to come through for them.
S1 (10:37):
We'll be right back. Now, Grant, I believe that Victoria's
health regulator only renewed the licenses of several Monash IVF
centres just six weeks ago, including this Clayton clinic where
the most recent embryo mix up occurred. So how have
(10:58):
health authorities reacted?
S2 (11:01):
Yeah. So after the Brisbane incident happened, Victoria's health regulator
and and the government and the Department of Health were
a little bit unconvinced with what they were hearing from Brisbane,
so they asked Brisbane for an explanation of what they'd
seen and what was happening, and they asked Monash IVF
for an explanation of what had happened. And part of
(11:21):
the reason they were doing that is because their Victorian
licences for a number of Monash IVF clinics were expiring
on April 30th. And so in order to renew those licences,
they were after information to make sure everything was above
board and we wouldn't have any any further problems in Victoria.
On April 30th, those licences were renewed, so presumably they
(11:43):
got all the assurances they needed from Monash IVF and
and from the Queensland authorities and so on. So I
guess they're not saying that much, but I think there's
some pretty serious questions being asked, because it's only about
six weeks in between getting those assurances, granting those licences,
and now having a very similar issue here, which the
(12:04):
Victorian health regulator is now investigating.
S1 (12:06):
Okay. So now I've obviously got to ask you what
the response has been from Monash IVF itself, because you
did mention that its share price has plummeted. Really? So
what have we heard from the company?
S2 (12:18):
The CEO stood down from his job on Thursday.
S6 (12:25):
Monash IVF chief executive has resigned in the wake of
the fertility giant's latest embryo scandal. The embattled baby making
business is in damage control, with IVF activists calling for
new laws to prevent.
S4 (12:39):
Just two days after Monash IVF admitted to another serious
embryo mix up, its CEO Michael Knapp has been axed.
The company, now in damage control as it tries to
claw back support from clients and.
S2 (12:54):
It's suspected there may be other people to leave their jobs.
There's a lot of pressure on the board of directors
as well. They've been contacted by a lot of shareholders
and a lot of very serious questions being asked over
how these continued things are happening. At the same time,
Monash have their own internal investigation happening. They launched an
investigation after the Brisbane era that was expanded when the
(13:18):
Melbourne era happened. And I know the questions are being
asked over whether that investigation has to be expanded to
now look at whether there's wider systemic issues happening within
the company, and that may paint a direction of of
whether there's action taken at a board level or so on.
I know certainly the market and the major investors will
(13:38):
be waiting to find that out, or indeed, maybe they
won't wait. Maybe the pressure will hit the board before then.
And that's all happening within the market. Aside from that,
there's regulator investigations into what's been happening there as well.
I guess one of the issues is that, and I've
(13:59):
had contact from Monash patients who were caught up in
some of these who who don't want to be identified,
but they're somewhat bewildered and feeling a bit bittersweet because
they've been pushing for action simply because of health issues
or regulatory issues, and wanting the regulator to act on,
on the basis of, of health grounds. And they hadn't
(14:20):
seen a lot happen. And so they've now seen the
CEO resign and Monash taking its own action. But that's
become as a result of financial pressure on the company
rather than a regulator looking after public health. And while
they're happy to see some action inside Monash, I think
there's a fair bit of disappointment that this has come
as a result of dollars and cents, not public health
(14:42):
and welfare.
S1 (14:44):
You cannot totally understand it, can't you? And and I
wanted to ask, I guess, about where to from here
because we know that there are calls from Embryologists who
are scientists but who aren't actually considered clinicians to become
registered like doctors, nurses and other medical professionals. We know
this is the way it works in New Zealand. So
do you have any insight into whether this might help
prevent these? You know, what are being called human errors
(15:06):
from occurring?
S2 (15:08):
The lines that keep coming out of Monash and every
other IVF clinic is that this is a very human
process and there's humans involved, and you can never rule
out human error. And I think that that is 100% correct.
But you can take steps to limit how much that
happens and regulating everybody involved in it, the embryologists, the
(15:33):
medical practitioners who are already registered, but to register them
as a specialty in IVF or in fertility medicine, and
to have that as a group that has specialty oversight
would be a major step in not eliminating the human element,
but certainly in having a lot tighter fence around it
so that you can check the processes and make sure
(15:55):
it doesn't happen. Or indeed, when it does happen, it's
known that it's happened, and people can look at it
and work out where the human failing came in so
that it doesn't happen again. I mean, the entire way
the health system is built and the entire way regulation
is built Isn't by being a punitive thing, it's by
(16:15):
looking at when something goes wrong that you learn from
it and put steps in to make sure it doesn't happen.
That's that's exactly what health regulation is built around. When
you have an unregulated industry, such as the fertility industry
in Australia, those mistakes happen. They get settled in a
court or through a payment or something, rather than being
handled by a regulator, which means nobody looks at it
(16:38):
and there's no lessons learnt to prevent it happening again.
And I think when you see two embryo mix ups
in a couple of months at the same clinic, it's
pretty obvious that there's some lessons that probably aren't being learnt.
S1 (16:52):
And Grant, just to wrap up, you know, you've been
reporting in this space for a very long time. So
what can you tell us about what sort of fallout
is expected might come? Still.
S2 (17:03):
It's fair to say the phone's been running hot with
people who have been caught up in various issues with
their fertility treatment, and that ranges everywhere from families seeking
to have children, to sperm donors and egg donors who
feel that there's been some bungling in the handling of
their involvement. I think there's going to be a lot
(17:26):
more come out in this space, and this isn't limited
to Monash either. I think that needs to be stated.
A lot of these people that are that have those issues,
they're not Monash IVF clients or patients. It's not unique
to them potentially. A lot of the issues that we
know about Monash IVF is because they're publicly listed and
they have a high reporting threshold as a result. I
(17:47):
don't think we can assume that this is related only
to them, and therefore things such as Friday's meeting of
the health ministers, where they're discussing it and putting on
the table that we need national regulation. That's a really
big step in doing that. As that happens, I think
we're going to learn more and more about everything that's
been going on in the system until now.
S1 (18:09):
Well, Grant, we're so lucky that you are reporting in
this space. So thank you so much for your time.
S2 (18:14):
No worries.
S7 (18:15):
Thank you.
S1 (18:28):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh towers,
with technical assistance by Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is
Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To
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(18:50):
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news in your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes.
I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
June 16th. When news broke 11 days ago that one
of Australia's oldest and largest fertility services implanted the wrong
(00:22):
embryo in a woman in Melbourne, it naturally made headlines
around the country. But for those of us following the story,
that was just the beginning. Because this mistake occurred only
two months after another woman in Queensland gave birth to
another couple's baby after an embryo mix up at Monash IVF. Today,
(00:46):
senior reporter Grant McArthur on why this industry, which offers
the promise of desperately wanted children, is leaving people to
feel heartbroken. So, Grant, just to start, can you take
us through this latest issue at Monash IVF? Because the
(01:07):
Victorian health Minister has labelled it completely unacceptable. So what's happened?
S2 (01:12):
The latest incident, which is one of a string of incidents,
goes back to June 5th when a same sex couple
were having an embryo transfer because one woman wanted to
become the birth mother, but to her partner's embryo. Unfortunately,
and Monash have disclosed this publicly, they transferred the woman's
(01:34):
own embryo back into her rather than her partner's.
S3 (01:41):
Monash IVF is in damage control today, admitting to its
second embryo transfer bungle in two months.
S4 (01:49):
The fertility giant has admitted that last Thursday it transferred
the wrong embryo to a client who was expecting to
carry her same sex partners baby. The woman's own embryo
was transferred instead. And while the woman is the biological
mother of the embryo is not what the couple had
asked for in their treatment plan. It comes just two
months after a woman gave birth to a stranger's baby.
(02:12):
After Monash IVF Brisbane clinic saw her implanted with the
wrong embryo.
S2 (02:18):
Now they've announced this information and and put their hand
up to admit to the bungle. Um, partly because they
already had a lot of pressure on them, because it
was only two months since they had to admit having
done almost the same thing in Brisbane.
S1 (02:33):
Yeah. Well, I wanted to ask you about this because
Monash IVF was forced to admit this serious error at
a Brisbane clinic, which shockingly resulted in a Queensland woman
giving birth to a stranger's baby. So can you take
us through that case?
S2 (02:46):
Yeah. That's correct. It was only in April that they
admitted that this had happened. It had actually happened quite
a long time before that. Without giving anything away, that's
going to identify the people involved, because the end of
the day. And that's what makes this so impactful and
so important, I guess there's very much humans involved here.
S5 (03:11):
Two Australian families have been left in a traumatic and
disturbing set of circumstances after a mother unwittingly gave birth
to a stranger's baby. Both women were patients of Monash
IVF in Brisbane, with the wrong embryo implanted into one
of them and carried to term. It's rocked the industry.
S2 (03:31):
But needless to say, it actually happened quite a significant
time before where a woman was undergoing IVF treatment. She
had a transfer as normal. She's had a child and
it was only quite a significant time, like a year
or so later, that that woman was wanting to take
(03:52):
her fertility treatment to another clinic to continue. When she
went to have her eggs moved, they had to do
an audit and discovered there was an extra embryo sitting there.
They couldn't work out why And realized it actually implanted
another person's embryo in her, and as a result, the
baby that she'd been, she'd given birth to and was
(04:12):
raising wasn't her own biological child. Now they've announced that.
And then following on from that and launching an investigation
into that, we come 8 or 9 weeks later and
they have a very similar incident in Melbourne.
S1 (04:33):
Okay. Now we're going to get to this, but I
really I've got to stop you right there because we
know that with regards to the woman in Brisbane who
gave birth to a baby that was not genetically her own.
The response from Monash, I'm going to have to quote
here was Monash IVF has extended its sincere apologies to
the affected couple and we continue to support them. Now,
when I read that statement, I mean jaw dropped. Do
(04:55):
we know how both sets of parents have responded?
S2 (04:58):
As I mentioned earlier, it's obviously a very human issue.
Both families are wanting to have absolute privacy and they're
guarding that. And I think we can all appreciate why
that doesn't mean this isn't playing out. I know both
families are in talks with Monash, and there's a string
of lawyers involved, too. I think it's fair to say
(05:19):
I don't know how it's going to play out. I
don't think anybody does. I've spoken to legal experts in
this area, although that might not even be the right
saying it's an area might be going too far because
this is unique in Australia. It's never happened. The prevailing
theory is that if there was a custody issue, it
would probably come down in favour of the birth mother,
(05:45):
but there's no precedent for it. It's not overly clear.
And I mean, at a human level, you look at
it and you just think, My God, I hope this
actually doesn't end up being decided in a court. It
would be so much more palatable and, you know, potentially
salvage some sort of heartbreak if it didn't have to
get resolved in a court. If that is the case,
we'll probably never know.
S1 (06:06):
Yeah, it's absolutely heartbreaking. It's hard to take in, but
let's move on because we have to because these two
isolated incidents that we've just been talking about in Melbourne
and in Brisbane, they actually are not the only alarming
issues that have taken place at Monash IVF. Just last year,
700 families from across Australia launched a multi-million dollar class
action suit against the fertility clinic. So tell us about that.
S2 (06:29):
Yeah, this dates back 2018 2019, Monash announced it basically
hit the Holy Grail, and it had invented this test
where they could do a genetic test of an embryo
before it was implanted in somebody and pretty much say,
at least their marketing say whether it was going to
result in a pregnancy and a healthy baby or not
before it was transferred. Now, clinics around the world have
(06:51):
been working on this, trying to get this because it
would absolutely revolutionize IVF. The biggest thing that's happened in decades,
Monash went to market was May 2019, saying that they'd
been able to, um, to pull this off. The issue
is by 2020, there was some pretty serious questions being asked,
and they had to come out and admit that there
(07:14):
was problems with the test. They were getting a lot
of false negatives. It wasn't performing and as a result,
a lot of embryos, an unknown number, but a lot
of embryos that they were being told weren't viable probably were.
The end result of that means that people's chances to
have a child were being destroyed. Um, there were viable
(07:36):
embryos that that could have resulted in somebody's child that
that were destroyed and discarded, obviously a fairly large issue.
It was more than 700 families across Australia, all different states.
It's taken a long time to play out, and last
year resolved with a $56 million class action being settled
(07:58):
by Monash IVF with a a disclaimer of no responsibility
or no fault. We should say that's still being worked through.
I guess one of the questions on that is it
it kind of makes it look like a a pattern
of behavior. And there's people in the industry saying that
these three things can't be looked at in isolation. There's
there's systemic issues where the checks and balances aren't, aren't
(08:21):
being done, or at least asking if that's the case. Um,
there's also a fair bit of angst that regulators haven't
been acting on any of these. There's been one issue
after another. There's been very little regulatory action as a result.
And indeed, it's actually become more of a market issue
where Monash IVF stock price has fallen through the floor
(08:43):
and it's their shareholders who are more holding it to
account than the actual regulators.
S1 (08:49):
I mean, that is absolutely shocking. And as you said before,
we do know that this $56 million payout that Monash
IVF has given to these families, we understand that this
did come with no admission of liability on behalf of
Monash IVF. But I'm just wondering what have you heard,
if anything, from members of those families who now have
to live with that devastation of not knowing whether possibly
(09:12):
viable embryos were discarded. I mean, for those people, those
are children. Those are children they arguably very much longed
to have.
S2 (09:18):
I spoke to plenty of those families as it was happening. Indeed,
had the misfortune of telling some of those families that
the test was bungled and potentially they had been caught
up in it. They didn't know necessarily until we were
chatting to them. That goes back to when it was
still being resolved since the class actions been settled, or
(09:41):
it's still going through to being settled, those families can't talk,
which is pretty typical in fertility industry settlements. That's part
of it is there's there's an obligation on the different clinics,
not just Monash IVF, but there's obligations on all of
the fertility clinics to report any of these issues to
the regulators. It's pretty commonly accepted they don't fess up
(10:03):
to them all and commonly, and you can speak to
many different people when something happens, typically there's more of
a settlement where it's an apology through having a free
round of IVF or a discounted follow up round of
IVF to try to make good. Rather than report it
to the authorities. So again, that's playing out here a
(10:24):
little bit, where more than 700 families are receiving a settlement,
but they're not talking because they're still waiting on that
settlement to come through for them.
S1 (10:37):
We'll be right back. Now, Grant, I believe that Victoria's
health regulator only renewed the licenses of several Monash IVF
centres just six weeks ago, including this Clayton clinic where
the most recent embryo mix up occurred. So how have
(10:58):
health authorities reacted?
S2 (11:01):
Yeah. So after the Brisbane incident happened, Victoria's health regulator
and and the government and the Department of Health were
a little bit unconvinced with what they were hearing from Brisbane,
so they asked Brisbane for an explanation of what they'd
seen and what was happening, and they asked Monash IVF
for an explanation of what had happened. And part of
(11:21):
the reason they were doing that is because their Victorian
licences for a number of Monash IVF clinics were expiring
on April 30th. And so in order to renew those licences,
they were after information to make sure everything was above
board and we wouldn't have any any further problems in Victoria.
On April 30th, those licences were renewed, so presumably they
(11:43):
got all the assurances they needed from Monash IVF and
and from the Queensland authorities and so on. So I
guess they're not saying that much, but I think there's
some pretty serious questions being asked, because it's only about
six weeks in between getting those assurances, granting those licences,
and now having a very similar issue here, which the
(12:04):
Victorian health regulator is now investigating.
S1 (12:06):
Okay. So now I've obviously got to ask you what
the response has been from Monash IVF itself, because you
did mention that its share price has plummeted. Really? So
what have we heard from the company?
S2 (12:18):
The CEO stood down from his job on Thursday.
S6 (12:25):
Monash IVF chief executive has resigned in the wake of
the fertility giant's latest embryo scandal. The embattled baby making
business is in damage control, with IVF activists calling for
new laws to prevent.
S4 (12:39):
Just two days after Monash IVF admitted to another serious
embryo mix up, its CEO Michael Knapp has been axed.
The company, now in damage control as it tries to
claw back support from clients and.
S2 (12:54):
It's suspected there may be other people to leave their jobs.
There's a lot of pressure on the board of directors
as well. They've been contacted by a lot of shareholders
and a lot of very serious questions being asked over
how these continued things are happening. At the same time,
Monash have their own internal investigation happening. They launched an
investigation after the Brisbane era that was expanded when the
(13:18):
Melbourne era happened. And I know the questions are being
asked over whether that investigation has to be expanded to
now look at whether there's wider systemic issues happening within
the company, and that may paint a direction of of
whether there's action taken at a board level or so on.
I know certainly the market and the major investors will
(13:38):
be waiting to find that out, or indeed, maybe they
won't wait. Maybe the pressure will hit the board before then.
And that's all happening within the market. Aside from that,
there's regulator investigations into what's been happening there as well.
I guess one of the issues is that, and I've
(13:59):
had contact from Monash patients who were caught up in
some of these who who don't want to be identified,
but they're somewhat bewildered and feeling a bit bittersweet because
they've been pushing for action simply because of health issues
or regulatory issues, and wanting the regulator to act on,
on the basis of, of health grounds. And they hadn't
(14:20):
seen a lot happen. And so they've now seen the
CEO resign and Monash taking its own action. But that's
become as a result of financial pressure on the company
rather than a regulator looking after public health. And while
they're happy to see some action inside Monash, I think
there's a fair bit of disappointment that this has come
as a result of dollars and cents, not public health
(14:42):
and welfare.
S1 (14:44):
You cannot totally understand it, can't you? And and I
wanted to ask, I guess, about where to from here
because we know that there are calls from Embryologists who
are scientists but who aren't actually considered clinicians to become
registered like doctors, nurses and other medical professionals. We know
this is the way it works in New Zealand. So
do you have any insight into whether this might help
prevent these? You know, what are being called human errors
(15:06):
from occurring?
S2 (15:08):
The lines that keep coming out of Monash and every
other IVF clinic is that this is a very human
process and there's humans involved, and you can never rule
out human error. And I think that that is 100% correct.
But you can take steps to limit how much that
happens and regulating everybody involved in it, the embryologists, the
(15:33):
medical practitioners who are already registered, but to register them
as a specialty in IVF or in fertility medicine, and
to have that as a group that has specialty oversight
would be a major step in not eliminating the human element,
but certainly in having a lot tighter fence around it
so that you can check the processes and make sure
(15:55):
it doesn't happen. Or indeed, when it does happen, it's
known that it's happened, and people can look at it
and work out where the human failing came in so
that it doesn't happen again. I mean, the entire way
the health system is built and the entire way regulation
is built Isn't by being a punitive thing, it's by
(16:15):
looking at when something goes wrong that you learn from
it and put steps in to make sure it doesn't happen.
That's that's exactly what health regulation is built around. When
you have an unregulated industry, such as the fertility industry
in Australia, those mistakes happen. They get settled in a
court or through a payment or something, rather than being
handled by a regulator, which means nobody looks at it
(16:38):
and there's no lessons learnt to prevent it happening again.
And I think when you see two embryo mix ups
in a couple of months at the same clinic, it's
pretty obvious that there's some lessons that probably aren't being learnt.
S1 (16:52):
And Grant, just to wrap up, you know, you've been
reporting in this space for a very long time. So
what can you tell us about what sort of fallout
is expected might come? Still.
S2 (17:03):
It's fair to say the phone's been running hot with
people who have been caught up in various issues with
their fertility treatment, and that ranges everywhere from families seeking
to have children, to sperm donors and egg donors who
feel that there's been some bungling in the handling of
their involvement. I think there's going to be a lot
(17:26):
more come out in this space, and this isn't limited
to Monash either. I think that needs to be stated.
A lot of these people that are that have those issues,
they're not Monash IVF clients or patients. It's not unique
to them potentially. A lot of the issues that we
know about Monash IVF is because they're publicly listed and
they have a high reporting threshold as a result. I
(17:47):
don't think we can assume that this is related only
to them, and therefore things such as Friday's meeting of
the health ministers, where they're discussing it and putting on
the table that we need national regulation. That's a really
big step in doing that. As that happens, I think
we're going to learn more and more about everything that's
been going on in the system until now.
S1 (18:09):
Well, Grant, we're so lucky that you are reporting in
this space. So thank you so much for your time.
S2 (18:14):
No worries.
S7 (18:15):
Thank you.
S1 (18:28):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh towers,
with technical assistance by Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is
Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To
listen to our episodes as soon as they drop, follow
the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen
to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to
(18:50):
support independent journalism, visit The Age or Smh.com.au. And to
stay up to date, sign up to our Morning Edition
newsletter to receive a summary of the day's most important
news in your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes.
I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.
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