June 17, 2025 • 18 mins
'Train by day, podcast by night' is the catchphrase of the ‘Joe Rogan Experience’ podcast which has 50 million-odd downloads a month worldwide with a huge male listenership including in Australia.
The American host's message, while compelling, can be rambling, unpolished, and often delve into conspiracy theories.
Today, Chief Reporter, Jordan Baker on Joe Rogan’s influence on Australian men and whether it’s something to be concerned about.
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S1 (00:01):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Chris Payne filling in
for Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Wednesday, June 18th. Trained by day,
podcast by night. That's the catchphrase of the Joe Rogan
Experience podcast. It's got 50 million downloads a month across
(00:25):
the world and a huge male listenership, including in Australia.
The American hosts message, while compelling, can be rambling, unpolished
and often delve into conspiracy theories. Today, chief reporter Jordan
Baker on Joe Rogan's influence on Australian men and whether
(00:46):
or not it's something to be concerned about. Jordan to
start with, for those people who have managed to never
hear about Joe Rogan more broadly, can you tell us
about his background, his nearly 50 million downloads a month worldwide?
Who is this guy?
S2 (01:07):
So he's kind of an unlikely superstar. Um, that kind
of crept up on us. So Joe Rogan is a
57 year old American guy born in new Jersey. Dad
was a police officer. Came from a bit of a
violent background from his dad, but, you know, overcame odds.
He won a US open taekwondo championship at age 19.
(01:30):
He became a stand up comic.
S3 (01:34):
We always like to say the long great history of
the United States. Listen, that's not real. The United States
was founded in 1776. People lived to be 100. That's
three people ago.
S4 (01:52):
He was an actor in a comedy.
S2 (01:54):
Show called News Radio, who people who were around in
the mid 1990s might remember that. And he hosted a
stunt show called Fear Factor.
S5 (02:03):
Fear factor.
S6 (02:06):
I'm Joe Rogan. This is Fear factor. The stunts you're
about to see were all designed and supervised by trained professionals.
They are extremely dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
S2 (02:17):
But he really came into his own Joe Rogan when
the Ultimate Fighting Championship, uh, which is a mixed martial arts, uh,
competition born out of America, uh, became big, and he
was an announcer for that.
S6 (02:34):
Thanks, Bruce. I'm back here right now backstage. I'll be
interviewing the fighters as they come out of the Octagon,
and I'll also be previewing the fights, the final fights
in each weight division. I'll be talking to the fighters.
We'll find out who's injured, who's going to be able
to continue and who's going to go in.
S2 (02:48):
And he's hugely popular on that. And the UFC is
also a hugely popular sporting event. Pay per view, things
seen all over the world. Mixed martial arts is basically
a kind of mix of all the martial arts together
in an octagon. Um, and that has sort of gone
wild among men, particularly the under 50 men. So Joe
(03:11):
Rogan was very much shot to fame in that, but
he started a podcast about 15 years ago, and it
was just a really kind of chatty podcast, like get
a Mate on. And they'd sit there and they might
smoke a bit of weed and or drink a couple
of whiskeys and talk about stuff.
S7 (03:28):
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
S8 (03:30):
The Joe Rogan Experience.
S9 (03:32):
Train by Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
S6 (03:39):
And we're up, my friend.
S3 (03:40):
How are you? Good to see you.
S2 (03:42):
And that podcast has gone absolutely wild. Um, you know,
50 odd million downloads a month. It's biggest podcast, I think,
was with Elon Musk around 2018, which I think has
got like almost 40 million downloads from that single podcast. Um,
(04:04):
so it's a really, really, uh, big name now in podcasting.
And he also now attracts, like, huge stars, like he
had Bono on the other day. You know, he's had,
you know, Bill Murray. So he's, he's uh, he's a
very popular guy among guys.
S1 (04:23):
Okay. So The Joe Rogan Experience is the name of
that podcast. It's massive. But as you said, he's this
like taekwondo dude. He does a bit of stand up comedy.
He sits around smoking weed. Like, what is it that's
special about him? Why do Australian men seem to love
this guy?
S2 (04:40):
So I think there's a whole bunch of reasons why
Australian men seem to love this guy. And as someone
who's not an Australian man, obviously looking at this from
a distance, I mean, firstly, he is a real man's man.
Like he's, you know, if you were to define manly
as someone who, you know, exercises a lot and so
(05:02):
spends a lot of time in his sort of iron Paradise,
of his gym and his, you know, hunts his own food,
which he then cooks like he likes to hunt. Hunt.
Particularly elk. Um, you know, he's very fit, and he
spends a lot of time in sort of very masculine pursuits, like, um,
mixed martial arts. Uh, so, you know, he's he's seen
(05:24):
as very much a man's man. Um, he, he's his
conversations with his guests. Now, they go on for a
really long time, but they are the sort of conversations.
And a lot of men said this to me, a
sort of conversations that a whole bunch of blokes might
have over a beer at the pub or might have
when they're sitting in their lounge room having a spliff
(05:45):
late at night. You know, they're just kind of meandering
conversations you might start talking about, I don't know, the latest,
you know, news piece and then something some celebrity's done
or then start, you know, riffing on some scientific concept
like what are black holes? And this is the kind
of conversations Rogan has with his guests. Um, so it
(06:06):
sort of mirrors a lot of the conversations that that
men might have or men might want to have. Because
the other thing is there is this identified, widely identified
epidemic of loneliness among men. So this this sort of conversation,
there is a level of intimacy in the conversation that
the listener feels like they're kind of part of it.
(06:26):
You know, if Rogan is chatting to, you know, Bill
Murray about Hunter S Thompson, you know, there's this this
intimacy that, you know, the listener can sort of feel
like they're there.
S1 (06:37):
And politically, he's not exactly backwards in coming forwards. He
is quite known for being controversial. But what are his
political views? And can you take us through some of
the guests?
S2 (06:47):
He's had the politics of Joe Rogan, a very interesting
and very hard to pin down. So he started his podcast,
as I said, 15 years ago, and the concept was
very much like just asking questions, You know, I think his, his,
his view is to be open minded about everything. So
everything's under the microscope. No question is too dumb. No
(07:09):
sort of burrow is too weird to go down. He's
very against any kind of clamp on his free speech.
So the sense that, oh, you can't say that is
not something that Joe Rogan would ever, um, conscience on
his show. Um, he started off, as you could probably
best describe him as a, as a kind of libertarian, really.
(07:31):
His politics for a long time were completely all over
the place. Like, he supports gay marriage. He definitely believes
in drug legalization. Um, he had Bernie Sanders on his
show quite a few times. You know, he's and he, he,
he at one point said, yeah, I'd vote for Bernie Sanders.
It was this sort of sense of disruption about challenging
the status quo, about questioning things. So but recently, his
(07:58):
politics has sort of become, uh, in some areas anyway,
quite fringe. So he's become a quite an activist against vaccines.
He very much thinks that vaccines are a kind of
big pharma conspiracy that governments in on.
S10 (08:18):
You took a bold stand, though, years ago when the
governments were trying to poison their citizens. You took a
very bold stand that nobody else took. That's what I
was like. Wow, I appreciate you because I lost 3
or 4 jobs because I refused to take it, I refused.
S6 (08:34):
I bet you feel better about it now.
S10 (08:35):
Um, well.
S6 (08:36):
Especially when you know all these people that have health
problems because of it.
S10 (08:38):
Cancers have increased 300%.
S6 (08:41):
All cause mortality, up 40% in some age groups.
S10 (08:44):
Pulmonary embolisms almost up like 500%. Yeah. What caused that
crazy spike proteins that's being built and collected within the
in the system we can go into. I can walk
you through.
S2 (08:56):
He's become quite close to some of the members of
the MAGA world, particularly close to Elon Musk. He was.
Although obviously Elon Musk's position in the MAGA world, you know,
changes from day to day at the moment. His vaccine
views and his view that mainstream media is kind of
corrupt and that we're all sort of pushing state propaganda
(09:17):
and that we're all kind of, you know, quietly working to, uh,
you know, push the views of the left of politics, um,
is also sort of solidified. So his politics is sort
of quite fringe and unscientific in a lot of ways.
He has platformed a lot of opinions that haven't been
fact checked. So he interviewed Trump before the election. He
(09:40):
interviewed Vance before the election. He interviewed Musk before the election.
He's a big supporter of Robert F Kennedy, the anti-vaxxer
health secretary. So there's this sense that that Rogan's wants,
open minded views have become a little bit more conspiratorial,
a little bit more Wore a fringe. And, um, you know,
(10:02):
he's having guests on that. He's not challenging.
S1 (10:10):
We'll be back in a moment. So what is his
responsibility here, then? Like some people would say, this guy's
just a stand up comic and a UFC commentator who's
a bit of a bro. Like, he just has chats, like,
what's the big deal? Others will say, well, he's got
(10:32):
50 million people listening. He's got a huge platform. He
does have some kind of responsibility. Where does his responsibility
fall on that spectrum? Do you think.
S2 (10:42):
Back in this sort of, you know, middle of last century,
early last century when broadcast media became a thing broadcast
in America, was regulated, broadcast in Australia was regulated. You know,
there were sort of, you know, you had to, for example,
in Australia, acknowledge if Acknowledge, if you are having a
commercial partnership with someone or you know, there was there
(11:03):
was an ethical responsibility to at least sort of fact
check stuff, for example. And if you didn't, you'd butt
up against the regulators. The regulators would, would give you
a hard time. But just like everything else with the internet,
you know, you've got Facebook beginning and WhatsApp beginning and
all these sort of it's a very much an unregulated space.
(11:25):
So some people say, well, you know, if it applies
to broadcast media, it should apply to podcasts. It's a
similar deal. If you have that kind of platform, then
there should be an element of social responsibility with it.
And some of the things that that Rogan is preaching
are kind of harmful to people's health. You know, like
the scientific consensus is very strong that vaccines are actually
(11:49):
a powerful tool to support public health. They're not, you know,
a way to kind of entrap us, to become brainless
wards of the state or whatever. Um, so there's there's
that question. But then other people will argue, well, you know,
we're all adults. Um, just because I listen to Joe Rogan,
it doesn't mean that I swallow every single thing he says.
(12:12):
I spoke to a lot of people who listen to
Joe Rogan for this story and, you know, some very
highly educated people, or among them people who are CEOs,
people who are lawyers, you know, dinner parties I had
in Sydney's inner west were, you know, men sort of
out of themselves as Rogan listeners. And they're smart guys
who have their vaccinations regularly and can sort of sift
(12:34):
the rubbish from the good stuff. And, you know, most
people can do that, I suppose. The question is whether,
you know, for the for the small pockets of people
who don't have that kind of education and are using
Rogan as their sole source of information, is that a problem?
And most people I spoke to said, well, look, Australians
(12:55):
are less likely to use Rogan as their only source
of information then. Then some people in the US are.
So if you have a wide news base, then having,
you know, a couple of anti-vaxxer rants from Woody Harrelson
and Joe Rogan isn't necessarily going to change their mind
about the validity of vaccinations. So there are there are people,
(13:17):
even people who have supported Joe Rogan and listened to
Joe Rogan for a long time, who are now starting
to say, look, you know, he he is at the
point where he does need to have some sort of
element of social responsibility. He is, you know, a very
rich man. And perhaps it's worth investing in just a
couple of fact checkers or people who can, you know,
(13:39):
look at these ideas for him, because getting on a
microphone and just saying whatever comes into your head to
50 million people, whether it's about, you know, the situation
in the Middle East, whether it's about what USAID does,
whether it's about vaccinations can be irresponsible if, if, if
(14:00):
you are propagating misinformation. And that's another concern. Um, you know,
particularly with some of the political podcasts has done recently,
whether there's actually just, you know, plain straight up misinformation
and incorrect facts being propagated to 50 million people, as
you know, under under the guise of freedom of speech
(14:21):
or just asking a question.
S1 (14:23):
So some would say, you know, we're all adults, except,
of course, that we're not all adults. And there's young men.
Boys who might be influenced by Joe Rogan might find
his views fascinating. Are there fears of him influencing them negatively?
And like, where does he sit on the whole kind
of Andrew Tate spectrum, if you like.
S2 (14:42):
So he has platformed a couple of quite conservative thinkers. Um,
you know, again, as part of this sense of, you know, well,
don't hem me in, I will do what I want
to do. I mean, you know, some of the things
that that Elon Musk has said on his program. For example,
I'd like to have a you know, if my son
listened to that, I'd like to have a good chat
with him about, you know, what was actually going on there.
(15:05):
In other situations, though, recently he challenged, uh, the Trump, um,
forced deportations and was quite you know, he was basically
saying if if you could watch a mother being separated
from her children like that, you know, you really need
to sort of question, you know, your humanity. So he
(15:28):
was he was he was really challenging some of Trump's
decisions on that. So he is a bit all over
the place in terms of young men. And I was
talking to someone whose son's at boarding school and he
was like, yeah, Joe Rogan's going on in the background
all the time. I think some of the concerns in
that space are that the that young men are, are
(15:48):
more sort of vulnerable in terms of their critical thinking capabilities,
that they're more likely to get their news from only
sources like that, then, you know, also consuming the traditional
media or other sources that are going to challenge those ideas.
There's also this sense that Rogan is a, um, a
(16:12):
kind of, uh, a manliness role model from his physical
point of view. So Rogan is very much into human optimization, right?
So he he trains hard and he, um, he, as
I said before, he hunts his own stuff and he's,
he does this thing where, you know, you go into
a freezer for brief periods of time to, I don't know,
(16:33):
it does something to your body apparently, or is alleged
to have done something to your body. He takes a
lot of supplements, like heaps of supplements, um, which he,
you know, sometimes gets kickbacks for endorsing. So the, the
physical art to being Joe Rogan is an extremely time
consuming thing. So there's concerns from some people that these
(16:55):
messages might be a bit unhealthy for young men. mean.
But when I was doing this article, I did speak
to some people who said, look, you know, if your
son is very much into Joe Rogan, just make sure
that they have other messages that they have other people
to listen to. And there's a lot of kind of
bloke podcasters springing up on the horizon, you know, some
(17:16):
of which are just kind of nerdy dudes in their
room that, you know, their mother comes and gives them
lunch and they're broadcasting to millions of people. So there's
a whole world of of blokey podcasters out there. And
I do wonder whether this really does feed into this
sense of, of of, of men being lonely and, you know,
not having this always the same sort of social connections
(17:36):
that a lot of women have. And you know that
there is a need for that out there.
S1 (17:43):
I mean, he's popular for a reason, right?
S2 (17:45):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (17:46):
Well, Jordan, thank you so much for talking to me
about this. He is a fascinating guy. We could probably
talk for three hours ourselves, but thank you for joining me.
S2 (17:54):
Maybe we should try that one day.
S1 (17:55):
Chris, thank you so much.
S2 (17:57):
See you later.
S1 (18:07):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh towers.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
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(18:32):
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the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Chris Payne. This
is Morning edition. Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Chris Payne filling in
for Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Wednesday, June 18th. Trained by day,
podcast by night. That's the catchphrase of the Joe Rogan
Experience podcast. It's got 50 million downloads a month across
(00:25):
the world and a huge male listenership, including in Australia.
The American hosts message, while compelling, can be rambling, unpolished
and often delve into conspiracy theories. Today, chief reporter Jordan
Baker on Joe Rogan's influence on Australian men and whether
(00:46):
or not it's something to be concerned about. Jordan to
start with, for those people who have managed to never
hear about Joe Rogan more broadly, can you tell us
about his background, his nearly 50 million downloads a month worldwide?
Who is this guy?
S2 (01:07):
So he's kind of an unlikely superstar. Um, that kind
of crept up on us. So Joe Rogan is a
57 year old American guy born in new Jersey. Dad
was a police officer. Came from a bit of a
violent background from his dad, but, you know, overcame odds.
He won a US open taekwondo championship at age 19.
(01:30):
He became a stand up comic.
S3 (01:34):
We always like to say the long great history of
the United States. Listen, that's not real. The United States
was founded in 1776. People lived to be 100. That's
three people ago.
S4 (01:52):
He was an actor in a comedy.
S2 (01:54):
Show called News Radio, who people who were around in
the mid 1990s might remember that. And he hosted a
stunt show called Fear Factor.
S5 (02:03):
Fear factor.
S6 (02:06):
I'm Joe Rogan. This is Fear factor. The stunts you're
about to see were all designed and supervised by trained professionals.
They are extremely dangerous and should not be attempted by anyone, anywhere, anytime.
S2 (02:17):
But he really came into his own Joe Rogan when
the Ultimate Fighting Championship, uh, which is a mixed martial arts, uh,
competition born out of America, uh, became big, and he
was an announcer for that.
S6 (02:34):
Thanks, Bruce. I'm back here right now backstage. I'll be
interviewing the fighters as they come out of the Octagon,
and I'll also be previewing the fights, the final fights
in each weight division. I'll be talking to the fighters.
We'll find out who's injured, who's going to be able
to continue and who's going to go in.
S2 (02:48):
And he's hugely popular on that. And the UFC is
also a hugely popular sporting event. Pay per view, things
seen all over the world. Mixed martial arts is basically
a kind of mix of all the martial arts together
in an octagon. Um, and that has sort of gone
wild among men, particularly the under 50 men. So Joe
(03:11):
Rogan was very much shot to fame in that, but
he started a podcast about 15 years ago, and it
was just a really kind of chatty podcast, like get
a Mate on. And they'd sit there and they might
smoke a bit of weed and or drink a couple
of whiskeys and talk about stuff.
S7 (03:28):
Joe Rogan Podcast, check it out.
S8 (03:30):
The Joe Rogan Experience.
S9 (03:32):
Train by Joe Rogan podcast by night, all day.
S6 (03:39):
And we're up, my friend.
S3 (03:40):
How are you? Good to see you.
S2 (03:42):
And that podcast has gone absolutely wild. Um, you know,
50 odd million downloads a month. It's biggest podcast, I think,
was with Elon Musk around 2018, which I think has
got like almost 40 million downloads from that single podcast. Um,
(04:04):
so it's a really, really, uh, big name now in podcasting.
And he also now attracts, like, huge stars, like he
had Bono on the other day. You know, he's had,
you know, Bill Murray. So he's, he's uh, he's a
very popular guy among guys.
S1 (04:23):
Okay. So The Joe Rogan Experience is the name of
that podcast. It's massive. But as you said, he's this
like taekwondo dude. He does a bit of stand up comedy.
He sits around smoking weed. Like, what is it that's
special about him? Why do Australian men seem to love
this guy?
S2 (04:40):
So I think there's a whole bunch of reasons why
Australian men seem to love this guy. And as someone
who's not an Australian man, obviously looking at this from
a distance, I mean, firstly, he is a real man's man.
Like he's, you know, if you were to define manly
as someone who, you know, exercises a lot and so
(05:02):
spends a lot of time in his sort of iron Paradise,
of his gym and his, you know, hunts his own food,
which he then cooks like he likes to hunt. Hunt.
Particularly elk. Um, you know, he's very fit, and he
spends a lot of time in sort of very masculine pursuits, like, um,
mixed martial arts. Uh, so, you know, he's he's seen
(05:24):
as very much a man's man. Um, he, he's his
conversations with his guests. Now, they go on for a
really long time, but they are the sort of conversations.
And a lot of men said this to me, a
sort of conversations that a whole bunch of blokes might
have over a beer at the pub or might have
when they're sitting in their lounge room having a spliff
(05:45):
late at night. You know, they're just kind of meandering
conversations you might start talking about, I don't know, the latest,
you know, news piece and then something some celebrity's done
or then start, you know, riffing on some scientific concept
like what are black holes? And this is the kind
of conversations Rogan has with his guests. Um, so it
(06:06):
sort of mirrors a lot of the conversations that that
men might have or men might want to have. Because
the other thing is there is this identified, widely identified
epidemic of loneliness among men. So this this sort of conversation,
there is a level of intimacy in the conversation that
the listener feels like they're kind of part of it.
(06:26):
You know, if Rogan is chatting to, you know, Bill
Murray about Hunter S Thompson, you know, there's this this
intimacy that, you know, the listener can sort of feel
like they're there.
S1 (06:37):
And politically, he's not exactly backwards in coming forwards. He
is quite known for being controversial. But what are his
political views? And can you take us through some of
the guests?
S2 (06:47):
He's had the politics of Joe Rogan, a very interesting
and very hard to pin down. So he started his podcast,
as I said, 15 years ago, and the concept was
very much like just asking questions, You know, I think his, his,
his view is to be open minded about everything. So
everything's under the microscope. No question is too dumb. No
(07:09):
sort of burrow is too weird to go down. He's
very against any kind of clamp on his free speech.
So the sense that, oh, you can't say that is
not something that Joe Rogan would ever, um, conscience on
his show. Um, he started off, as you could probably
best describe him as a, as a kind of libertarian, really.
(07:31):
His politics for a long time were completely all over
the place. Like, he supports gay marriage. He definitely believes
in drug legalization. Um, he had Bernie Sanders on his
show quite a few times. You know, he's and he, he,
he at one point said, yeah, I'd vote for Bernie Sanders.
It was this sort of sense of disruption about challenging
the status quo, about questioning things. So but recently, his
(07:58):
politics has sort of become, uh, in some areas anyway,
quite fringe. So he's become a quite an activist against vaccines.
He very much thinks that vaccines are a kind of
big pharma conspiracy that governments in on.
S10 (08:18):
You took a bold stand, though, years ago when the
governments were trying to poison their citizens. You took a
very bold stand that nobody else took. That's what I
was like. Wow, I appreciate you because I lost 3
or 4 jobs because I refused to take it, I refused.
S6 (08:34):
I bet you feel better about it now.
S10 (08:35):
Um, well.
S6 (08:36):
Especially when you know all these people that have health
problems because of it.
S10 (08:38):
Cancers have increased 300%.
S6 (08:41):
All cause mortality, up 40% in some age groups.
S10 (08:44):
Pulmonary embolisms almost up like 500%. Yeah. What caused that
crazy spike proteins that's being built and collected within the
in the system we can go into. I can walk
you through.
S2 (08:56):
He's become quite close to some of the members of
the MAGA world, particularly close to Elon Musk. He was.
Although obviously Elon Musk's position in the MAGA world, you know,
changes from day to day at the moment. His vaccine
views and his view that mainstream media is kind of
corrupt and that we're all sort of pushing state propaganda
(09:17):
and that we're all kind of, you know, quietly working to, uh,
you know, push the views of the left of politics, um,
is also sort of solidified. So his politics is sort
of quite fringe and unscientific in a lot of ways.
He has platformed a lot of opinions that haven't been
fact checked. So he interviewed Trump before the election. He
(09:40):
interviewed Vance before the election. He interviewed Musk before the election.
He's a big supporter of Robert F Kennedy, the anti-vaxxer
health secretary. So there's this sense that that Rogan's wants,
open minded views have become a little bit more conspiratorial,
a little bit more Wore a fringe. And, um, you know,
(10:02):
he's having guests on that. He's not challenging.
S1 (10:10):
We'll be back in a moment. So what is his
responsibility here, then? Like some people would say, this guy's
just a stand up comic and a UFC commentator who's
a bit of a bro. Like, he just has chats, like,
what's the big deal? Others will say, well, he's got
(10:32):
50 million people listening. He's got a huge platform. He
does have some kind of responsibility. Where does his responsibility
fall on that spectrum? Do you think.
S2 (10:42):
Back in this sort of, you know, middle of last century,
early last century when broadcast media became a thing broadcast
in America, was regulated, broadcast in Australia was regulated. You know,
there were sort of, you know, you had to, for example,
in Australia, acknowledge if Acknowledge, if you are having a
commercial partnership with someone or you know, there was there
(11:03):
was an ethical responsibility to at least sort of fact
check stuff, for example. And if you didn't, you'd butt
up against the regulators. The regulators would, would give you
a hard time. But just like everything else with the internet,
you know, you've got Facebook beginning and WhatsApp beginning and
all these sort of it's a very much an unregulated space.
(11:25):
So some people say, well, you know, if it applies
to broadcast media, it should apply to podcasts. It's a
similar deal. If you have that kind of platform, then
there should be an element of social responsibility with it.
And some of the things that that Rogan is preaching
are kind of harmful to people's health. You know, like
the scientific consensus is very strong that vaccines are actually
(11:49):
a powerful tool to support public health. They're not, you know,
a way to kind of entrap us, to become brainless
wards of the state or whatever. Um, so there's there's
that question. But then other people will argue, well, you know,
we're all adults. Um, just because I listen to Joe Rogan,
it doesn't mean that I swallow every single thing he says.
(12:12):
I spoke to a lot of people who listen to
Joe Rogan for this story and, you know, some very
highly educated people, or among them people who are CEOs,
people who are lawyers, you know, dinner parties I had
in Sydney's inner west were, you know, men sort of
out of themselves as Rogan listeners. And they're smart guys
who have their vaccinations regularly and can sort of sift
(12:34):
the rubbish from the good stuff. And, you know, most
people can do that, I suppose. The question is whether,
you know, for the for the small pockets of people
who don't have that kind of education and are using
Rogan as their sole source of information, is that a problem?
And most people I spoke to said, well, look, Australians
(12:55):
are less likely to use Rogan as their only source
of information then. Then some people in the US are.
So if you have a wide news base, then having,
you know, a couple of anti-vaxxer rants from Woody Harrelson
and Joe Rogan isn't necessarily going to change their mind
about the validity of vaccinations. So there are there are people,
(13:17):
even people who have supported Joe Rogan and listened to
Joe Rogan for a long time, who are now starting
to say, look, you know, he he is at the
point where he does need to have some sort of
element of social responsibility. He is, you know, a very
rich man. And perhaps it's worth investing in just a
couple of fact checkers or people who can, you know,
(13:39):
look at these ideas for him, because getting on a
microphone and just saying whatever comes into your head to
50 million people, whether it's about, you know, the situation
in the Middle East, whether it's about what USAID does,
whether it's about vaccinations can be irresponsible if, if, if
(14:00):
you are propagating misinformation. And that's another concern. Um, you know,
particularly with some of the political podcasts has done recently,
whether there's actually just, you know, plain straight up misinformation
and incorrect facts being propagated to 50 million people, as
you know, under under the guise of freedom of speech
(14:21):
or just asking a question.
S1 (14:23):
So some would say, you know, we're all adults, except,
of course, that we're not all adults. And there's young men.
Boys who might be influenced by Joe Rogan might find
his views fascinating. Are there fears of him influencing them negatively?
And like, where does he sit on the whole kind
of Andrew Tate spectrum, if you like.
S2 (14:42):
So he has platformed a couple of quite conservative thinkers. Um,
you know, again, as part of this sense of, you know, well,
don't hem me in, I will do what I want
to do. I mean, you know, some of the things
that that Elon Musk has said on his program. For example,
I'd like to have a you know, if my son
listened to that, I'd like to have a good chat
with him about, you know, what was actually going on there.
(15:05):
In other situations, though, recently he challenged, uh, the Trump, um,
forced deportations and was quite you know, he was basically
saying if if you could watch a mother being separated
from her children like that, you know, you really need
to sort of question, you know, your humanity. So he
(15:28):
was he was he was really challenging some of Trump's
decisions on that. So he is a bit all over
the place in terms of young men. And I was
talking to someone whose son's at boarding school and he
was like, yeah, Joe Rogan's going on in the background
all the time. I think some of the concerns in
that space are that the that young men are, are
(15:48):
more sort of vulnerable in terms of their critical thinking capabilities,
that they're more likely to get their news from only
sources like that, then, you know, also consuming the traditional
media or other sources that are going to challenge those ideas.
There's also this sense that Rogan is a, um, a
(16:12):
kind of, uh, a manliness role model from his physical
point of view. So Rogan is very much into human optimization, right?
So he he trains hard and he, um, he, as
I said before, he hunts his own stuff and he's,
he does this thing where, you know, you go into
a freezer for brief periods of time to, I don't know,
(16:33):
it does something to your body apparently, or is alleged
to have done something to your body. He takes a
lot of supplements, like heaps of supplements, um, which he,
you know, sometimes gets kickbacks for endorsing. So the, the
physical art to being Joe Rogan is an extremely time
consuming thing. So there's concerns from some people that these
(16:55):
messages might be a bit unhealthy for young men. mean.
But when I was doing this article, I did speak
to some people who said, look, you know, if your
son is very much into Joe Rogan, just make sure
that they have other messages that they have other people
to listen to. And there's a lot of kind of
bloke podcasters springing up on the horizon, you know, some
(17:16):
of which are just kind of nerdy dudes in their
room that, you know, their mother comes and gives them
lunch and they're broadcasting to millions of people. So there's
a whole world of of blokey podcasters out there. And
I do wonder whether this really does feed into this
sense of, of of, of men being lonely and, you know,
not having this always the same sort of social connections
(17:36):
that a lot of women have. And you know that
there is a need for that out there.
S1 (17:43):
I mean, he's popular for a reason, right?
S2 (17:45):
Yeah, exactly.
S1 (17:46):
Well, Jordan, thank you so much for talking to me
about this. He is a fascinating guy. We could probably
talk for three hours ourselves, but thank you for joining me.
S2 (17:54):
Maybe we should try that one day.
S1 (17:55):
Chris, thank you so much.
S2 (17:57):
See you later.
S1 (18:07):
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh towers.
Our executive producer is Tammy Mills. Tom McKendrick is our
head of audio. To listen to our episodes as soon
as they drop, follow the Morning Edition on Apple, Spotify,
or wherever you listen to podcasts. Our newsrooms are powered
by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism, visit the page
(18:32):
or SMS. And to stay up to date. Sign up
for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a summary of
the day's most important news in your inbox every morning.
Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Chris Payne. This
is Morning edition. Thanks for listening.
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