May 11, 2025 • 22 mins
For nearly 20 years, Besha Rodell has used all kinds of schemes to hide who she is.
And it worked. As a renowned, anonymous food critic for The New York Times, the LA Times and our mastheads, she has stripped away the artifice and marketing from restaurants’ offering, in order to judge their real value, and in doing so, she’s reached the top of her industry, earning a James Beard Foundation Award - the so-called Oscar of the food world.
Today, Besha Rodell joins me to discuss why she’s unmasking herself now. And the confronting epiphany she’s had about Australia, since returning seven years ago.
Subscribe to The Age & SMH: https://subscribe.smh.com.au/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:02):
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
May 12th. For nearly 20 years, Becca Ruddell has used
all kinds of schemes to hide who she is. And
it's worked as a renowned anonymous food critic for The
(00:23):
New York Times, the L.A. times and our mastheads, she's
stripped away the artifice and marketing from restaurants offerings in
order to judge their real value. And in doing so,
she's reached the top of her industry, earning a James
Beard Foundation Award, the so-called Oscar of the food world. Today,
Becca Ruddell joins me to discuss why she's unmasking herself
(00:45):
now and the confronting epiphany she's had about Australia since
returning seven years ago. Becca, can you just start off
by telling us how you got into food writing?
S2 (00:57):
Yeah, I got into food writing because I was working
in hospitality and going to school for. Writing and literature. And, uh,
you know, it was at a time when restaurant critics were.
Mainly these kind of older white guys who, like, had
been the, the real estate reporter or the. You know,
(01:19):
Rome correspondent or somebody who had like a, um, an
inn and wanted to get off of. Their beat, you know,
or something along those lines. And most of the restaurant
criticism was about fancy restaurants for wealthy people in big cities,
and there was very little kind of exploration of immigrant
food or things that were not at that fine dining level.
(01:40):
And so, you know, yeah, I grew up with, um,
great food. My family all great cooks. It's like, what
are you having for dinner is still the best thing
that we talk to each other about when we talk. Um,
but they didn't understand my restaurant obsession at all. And they. Yeah,
they really thought that I was a crazy person for
being kind of this, you know, 20 year old Ratbag
(02:03):
waitress living in New York City and like, you know,
saving up my pennies to go eat at Danielle or
taking the subway for two hours to get to Queens
to find some Egyptian chicken hearts or whatever. And again,
now that's a pretty, um, common cultural, um, obsession. Like
young people are really into food now, but that just
was not the case when I started out.
S1 (02:25):
And you've been writing for 20 years. So just tell us,
why have you aimed to remain anonymous for all that time?
S2 (02:32):
Yeah. I mean, I think that we forget, um, how
long ago, 20 years was because I didn't make a
decision to be anonymous at that point. Everybody was anonymous.
There wasn't any social media, and certainly cell phone cameras
weren't around. Um, so and anonymity and food criticism was
by far the standard at that point in time. So
(02:53):
it was before it was, you know, this massive thing
where everybody had their photo online. I just never did.
And so I started really right before that changed. And um,
and anonymity was the standard for restaurant critics. So I
just followed that standard.
S1 (03:12):
And why was it such a precious tool, though? Tell
us about why it's been so useful.
S2 (03:16):
Look, there is a lot of good arguments to be
made that a restaurant cannot change the nature of who
they are when you walk in the door. Um, and
I think that that is true. They can't change the food.
They can't change how, you know, they could maybe put
their better server on for you or, you know, make
(03:37):
sure that nothing bad happens to your table, um, give
you the nice cut of meat, those types of things.
But for me, it was much more about being able
to not make people anxious to, like, have a, um,
a meal that was very similar to anybody else. Um,
and to, you know, No, not have that kind of
(03:59):
strained interaction. I think the other real thing is that,
you know, there are certain restaurants, especially at the very
high end, that, um, a regular person might feel a
little bit uncomfortable in. I think many readers can kind
of imagine if you go to, you know, a kind
of three hat type of experience. Um, and I spent
(04:21):
a lot of my career, you know, I still I
shop at op shops, like, I'm not a fancy person.
So going to those types of restaurants kind of looking
like the person who, um, couldn't afford to be there
and therefore was probably there for a very special occasion. Right. Um,
getting treated exceptionally well in those circumstances, um, even looking
(04:45):
like the least VIP customer is, to me, the mark
of an actually, like, world class restaurant when they try
to make even the least important guest feel really special
and wonderful. I'm going to lose that ability because they're
going to try to make it wonderful for me no
matter what I look like, probably. And then there's the opposite,
which is the more obvious one, which is that, you know,
(05:07):
there was certainly I think this was more an issue
in Los Angeles than I hope it would be in Melbourne.
But there was a long time in LA where I
was reviewing at the same time as Jonathan Gold. And
Jonathan was a very easily recognizable dude. And, um, and
he had very different experiences to me. Um, and I
think that that kind of like understanding when a restaurant
(05:29):
is sorting people by importance and giving you two different experiences,
even though you're both paying the same amount of money. Um,
that's helpful too. Um, but look, really the main thing
for me is just I would love to just be
able to experience the restaurant the way that anybody else does.
And I think that that is really helpful. And I'm
going to keep trying. I mean, um, last night was
(05:52):
my first night out after my photo had come out
in a restaurant that I know that they follow me
on Instagram. I know that, you know, they're probably looking
out for me. They know that they're going to be
reviewed soon. Um, I don't know if they recognized me
or not, but, you know, I did certain things to
try to make that less likely. I'm not going to
go into what those things are. I don't want to
(06:12):
give away my playbook. But, um, but, you know, I'm
hoping to still kind of stay under the radar as
much as possible.
S1 (06:20):
Okay. So I want to get into how your life
is going to change dramatically. I would have thought, by
unmasking yourself, but I just want you to take us through,
I guess, how difficult it has been to remain anonymous
for so long, because you have said that being anonymous
is by far the most complicated and silliest part of
my job. So how silly does it get? And tell
us about some close calls.
S2 (06:40):
I mean, again, it happens all the time has happened
since I started. You know, one of the I reviews
that I wrote in Atlanta within the first year of
being a critic, the manager came up to the table
and said, hi, are you Bashar Adel? You know, and
I played dumb and said, oh, who's that? And you know,
which I don't do anymore. If somebody says hi, I'm
(07:01):
just like, hi, you know.
S1 (07:01):
And I'm just curious, were you with anyone at the time?
Were you were like, no, I'm not.
S2 (07:05):
I was, I was with my family. Yeah, I was
with my family.
S1 (07:08):
And were your family like, nothing to see here?
S2 (07:10):
Yeah, they were, but they used to. I mean, they
kind of. I have a 21 year old son who
was a toddler when I started. Um, and, uh, they're
used to it. Him and my husband just both are
kind of like, I roll, like, my kid will be like, oh,
they're gossiping in the corner. I think you've been made.
I mean, I think that the silliest part of it
is that kind of inherent. Either way you play it,
(07:31):
it has a whiff of self-importance. So, you know, um,
I have credit cards in multiple different names. I have
multiple different emails, all of that stuff. But the stuff
that's embarrassing is when you are going to your kid's
school and they want to take photos of the class
with their parents. And I'm like, no, sorry, I can't
be in the photo. You know, my best friend got married, uh,
(07:52):
a couple years ago. I was the maid of honor,
and I had to be like, you know, I would
love to do this, but you got to keep your
wedding photos off the internet. Then, you know, at least
the ones with your bridal party in it. Again, it's
making her day about me and my job. Like, that's
it's just it's embarrassing. And it also puts attention on me.
It kind of presupposes that I want to tell everybody, oh,
(08:13):
I'm a restaurant critic, you know, which I'm just like,
I just can't be in the photo. Like, can we
just leave it at that? You know.
S1 (08:18):
And wasn't there a campaign of sorts to out you
in LA?
S2 (08:22):
There was. Um, so eater is, uh, now a very
respected publication that I've written for and, um, you know,
James Beard Award nominees came out and I think it
got a bunch of them, as they usually do. But
back in the day, they were a little bit more
like kind of the TMZ of the food world. They
kind of dabbled in that for a while, and they
actually had a, um, like a column basically that was
(08:43):
called To Catch a Critic, and they were trying to
out restaurant critics. Um, a couple years later, they got
their own anonymous restaurant critics. But for a little while, um,
they were they were trying to out restaurant critics. And
when I arrived in Los Angeles, it was kind of
at the height of that. Um, the woman who was
the editor of Ida La at that point was kind
of into the reality TV world and stuff. So she
(09:06):
was really into that kind of like, um, you know,
high stakes, high drama stuff. And so they found a
photo of me from a panel I had been on,
and they put it on the website, and it was
before I had even reviewed anything in LA. It was like,
right when I got there and, um, yeah. And luckily
the photographer asked them to take it down and they
(09:28):
took it down. So it was only up for a
little while. It was pretty blurry, and it was a
very unflattering photo. Um, and then a couple of weeks later,
they found a photo from a newspaper I'd worked for
in North Carolina years before, and it was actually a
photo that I had taken of one of my mother
in law's friends. Um, but it had a photo credit
(09:49):
that was mine, and they thought it was a caption.
So they put up that picture, which is amazing because
it was like this, you know, 55 year old southern
woman with a mullet. It didn't look anything like me,
and it made me feel really good because I was like, well,
if they think that, that's what I possibly could look like,
having seen the other photo, then I could look like
any white lady between like 20 and 70, basically.
S1 (10:13):
And I betcha you moved back to Melbourne, where you
were born about seven years ago. So what was it
like until now? Of course, trying to be anonymous here.
And did you have any close calls? Complaints. You know,
what was it like trying to be anonymous here compared
to other places?
S2 (10:29):
I mean, the interesting thing is, I think that every
other city that I've lived in, the chef community in particular,
actually really appreciated it, the anonymity and, um, you know,
I think that a lot of them do here too. They,
they understand why it, it it helps and is important
and kind of all of that stuff. Um in Australia.
(10:53):
I have had a lot more, um, kind of resistance
to the whole idea of restaurant criticism as an act,
almost as an act of journalism, honestly, you know. Um,
and there's I think that there's something in Australian culture
of overall that is, um, you know, you don't criticise people.
(11:14):
You only say the nice thing. Um, and I think
that the part of the reason for that, especially in
the arts, is that Australia hasn't been given the respect
that it deserves internationally for its food, for its art,
for its literature. And so, you know, there's this kind
of culture of boosterism where, you know, we all want
to say, yes, Australia is fantastic. Um, let's let's celebrate
(11:39):
it and not say anything bad about it ever, you know?
But the reality is that I don't want to blow smoke.
I don't I don't want to tell people. I don't
think it helps to tell people that, you know, if
their mum, their girlfriend or boyfriend, their the owner of
the restaurant, everybody is going to be like, this is amazing.
(12:01):
Your restaurant is so good. And yeah, you need that
feedback too. But I'm not your mum, so I think
it's okay for one person to say, yeah, really good.
This is what's great about it. These are the things
that I, you know, struggled with and that I think
could be actually done better. And, and my whole hope
is that, you know, they either take that advice and
(12:22):
get better or it makes them think. And they're like, nah,
she's wrong. I'm sticking to my guns. This is what
I meant to do. And and there's value in that too,
you know?
S1 (12:34):
We'll be right back. So better now you after so long.
I think you were one of the last remaining anonymous
food critics. But now you are revealing yourself. So why?
Why are you showing your face now?
S2 (12:49):
So I have a book coming out. It's coming out
June 17th in Australia. And I want I want to
promote the book. I mean, it's a purely selfish reason.
I have to say, you know, my bosses at The
Age were not thrilled about it. They really wanted me
to keep the anonymity, which I totally understood. We had
a long back and forth about it, but I think
(13:10):
they finally understood that for me, my life's work is
not just this. This is a huge part of my
life's work, and it is has been my life's work
for the last 20 years. But I have more in me,
you know, I have I have more to me, I think,
than just being an anonymous restaurant critic. And I'm really
proud of this book. And my publisher really wanted me
(13:31):
to promote it. They wanted me to be able to
go out and do events. Um, and, you know, I'm leaving, um, to,
to go to the US to do a kind of
mini book tour. And, and people are really excited about
those events and that's really lovely. And so the, um, the,
the real upside for me is that I hope that
I can connect with my community and with readers in
(13:54):
a more genuine way. I mean, I have a pretty
good pen pal relationship with a lot of readers, but like, um,
you know, getting to meet people in person, getting to
sign books in person without this, again, the kind of
silliness of a disguise or, um, some kind of way
of hiding myself, which we definitely discussed as a possibility,
(14:15):
but I just couldn't bear the kind of, again, inherent
self-importance of playing that game anymore. I just felt like
there has to be a reason that this is this
is the reason. So time's up.
S1 (14:27):
Is there anything you're anxious about? I guess because I
heard you say in an interview that you are very
anxious about showing your face. You know that it's been
a lovely blessing not to have your physical appearance, to
be part of your brand in any way. And I've
got to ask, like, are you worried about bumping into
any of the chefs who, you know, whose reviews I'm
thinking about? Bar patron by Rockpool. I'm going to quote here, uh,
(14:48):
one of their tacos was wildly disappointing. The salsa tasted
of cumin and water. That's obviously, you know, not even
by far the harshest. But like, are you worried about
bumping into Neil Perry?
S2 (14:58):
I'm not worried about bumping into Neil Perry at all.
I think Neil Perry is one of those operators who
actually is, is really smart and has been around the
block to, you know, and would not have taken he
wouldn't have liked that review, but I don't think that
it would have made him hate my guts. I could
be wrong, you know? But, you know, I'm I'm not
(15:18):
worried about bumping into chefs who I have reviewed. I mean, um,
I think, you know, that has happened again in the past.
You know, I have I have met people who I've
given harder reviews to. I mean, it's actually funny, again,
in Los Angeles, more than I've experienced here more often.
What would happen and what happened when I left LA
is a lot of chefs reached out to me who
(15:40):
I had been kind of harsh with and said, you know,
it was actually really helpful. I mean, that's that's not everybody,
but it certainly was my relationship with a lot of
the chefs in LA who I did that thing of saying,
you are very talented. This is a really interesting thing
that you're trying to do, and here are the places
(16:01):
where you know, your ego or some idea that you're
sticking to or whatever is getting in the way, you know.
And I mean, Curtis Stone was one of those people.
He's talked about it quite publicly, where he had this restaurant, Gwen,
that opened in Hollywood, and it was a prefix and
it was a steakhouse, and a prefix was not right
for being a steakhouse. It was too weird of a concept.
(16:22):
And I said that and he was really disappointed. And
then he was like, you were right. And I changed it.
And it's better now, you know? So that's the relationship
I hope to have with any chef, really, honestly or
any operator that I've, um, written about. Um, but I
also don't really plan on going out and like, being
(16:42):
buddies with all of these folks. I'm still going to
try to keep a kind of low profile. I'm not
going to go to media dinners. I'm probably not going
to become like the face of good food in the
way that some previous critics have. Um, I don't go
to the awards just because it just I don't want
to I don't I don't want to socialize with folks
that I am writing about. It just feels like a
(17:05):
bit of a conflict. So I'm going to continue to,
to do that.
S1 (17:08):
And now that we're talking about, you know, relationships between
you and various restaurateurs, we've got to talk about your
review in April of Melbourne restaurant Attica. This is obviously
an internationally renowned establishment. It's your last anonymous review for
good food. But it would also have to be I mean,
correct me if I'm wrong, please. One of your most controversial.
S2 (17:26):
Oh, absolutely.
S1 (17:27):
Yeah. So tell me what this was all about and
why you saved this one for last.
S2 (17:31):
The timing was actually completely random. Um, I had always
wanted to review Attica in the 20th year that Ben
Shourie had been operating it. I had planned on doing
that for years ago. Um, and then I had a
friend in town from LA who was eating at all
(17:52):
of the kind of great Melbourne restaurants, and he wanted
to go to Attica. And so I said, yeah, let's go.
The downside of the timing is that Ben and I
had just kind of had this kerfuffle. He has a
book out in which he takes aim at restaurant critics
in particular, really is unhappy with The Good Food Guide.
S1 (18:08):
I'm just going to interject here, he wrote in his book.
I believe that it was damaging to the mental health
of his staff, I think when reviewers are there. So
he was sort of really taking issue with being reviewed, right?
S2 (18:18):
Yes, absolutely. And he said that he doesn't consent to
being reviewed. And a lot of people have brought that up,
especially on social media in the weeks since that review.
That is the thing that keeps coming up is like, well,
this guy didn't consent to this review. And you know,
that isn't how journalism works, unfortunately. You know, and I
(18:39):
and I think it's this kind of double edged sword
because food people want to be taken seriously as artists,
as tradespeople, as business people, and in which case they
get held to the same kind of journalistic standards as
we would judge a book or a piece of art
or or any other business, you know.
S1 (18:58):
Well, just because the listeners might not have read this
particular review, I do have to put one quote in
because I haven't been there. But when you wrote that
it has a map of Australia made from fish, I
was like, I'm in. And then and then you said,
and you said, and it tastes good. You're like a
map of Australia made from fish is funny. And because
it tastes good, it's also very fun. But when it's
delivered with all the humor of a mathematics dissertation, you
(19:20):
wonder if you misread the joke so that that's your
problem there, wasn't it?
S2 (19:23):
Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a huge problem. I mean, again,
this is a very strong two hat restaurant in my mind. And,
you know, I think it's it's it's an experience that
you just will not forget. It's absolutely worth having. Um, but,
you know, I think it's worth pointing out, especially at
an era in which, um, Australian hospitality at that high
(19:46):
end is just so good right now and so fun.
And because. Attica is part of the reason that that
is the case, like they were some of the first
people to bring in that style of service, and it's
just gotten less fun and less warm over the years.
And I'm not sure why.
S1 (20:03):
And I guess just to wrap up, why is critiquing
what we eat important?
S2 (20:08):
I think that, you know, food, especially in a city
like Melbourne or Sydney, is such a huge part of
what makes a city a joyful place to live on
a day to day basis. Because of that, it's really
important to support our hospitality industry. And I think, again,
(20:30):
very self-serving, but I believe it having good criticism in
a city helps to maintain the health of that city's
food scene. It just it creates a conversation around it.
It creates, you know, people, people are People excited about it.
And obviously there are a lot of voices out there.
There's a lot of social media, a lot of TikTok,
(20:50):
a lot of people in this space at this point,
all of which is like super valid. And I am
very happy that all of those voices exist. But I
think it's a real public service on the part of
a media organization to pay somebody to do it professionally
so that, you know, that that person hasn't been bought off,
isn't getting a free meal out of it. I mean,
(21:12):
I'm so lucky because I get to say, oh, okay,
here's this restaurant. Let me look at the history of
the chef. Let me look at the history of this
kind of cuisine. Let me look at how this cuisine
has progressed in the world and in this city. You know,
there's a lot of research that goes into it. So
I just again, it's a self-serving thing, but I think
it's important.
S1 (21:34):
Well, you're exposed now. Yeah, literally and figuratively. And we're
privileged that you've done it here. So thank you so
much for your time.
S2 (21:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
S1 (21:46):
And if you'd like to read more, Becca Odell's memoir,
Hunger Like a Thirst, comes out in Australia on June 17th.
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh
Towers and Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to
(22:07):
our episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning
Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism,
visit The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up
to date. Sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to
receive a summary of the day's most important news in
(22:28):
your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes.
I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.
From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.
This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Selinger Morris. It's Monday,
May 12th. For nearly 20 years, Becca Ruddell has used
all kinds of schemes to hide who she is. And
it's worked as a renowned anonymous food critic for The
(00:23):
New York Times, the L.A. times and our mastheads, she's
stripped away the artifice and marketing from restaurants offerings in
order to judge their real value. And in doing so,
she's reached the top of her industry, earning a James
Beard Foundation Award, the so-called Oscar of the food world. Today,
Becca Ruddell joins me to discuss why she's unmasking herself
(00:45):
now and the confronting epiphany she's had about Australia since
returning seven years ago. Becca, can you just start off
by telling us how you got into food writing?
S2 (00:57):
Yeah, I got into food writing because I was working
in hospitality and going to school for. Writing and literature. And, uh,
you know, it was at a time when restaurant critics were.
Mainly these kind of older white guys who, like, had
been the, the real estate reporter or the. You know,
(01:19):
Rome correspondent or somebody who had like a, um, an
inn and wanted to get off of. Their beat, you know,
or something along those lines. And most of the restaurant
criticism was about fancy restaurants for wealthy people in big cities,
and there was very little kind of exploration of immigrant
food or things that were not at that fine dining level.
(01:40):
And so, you know, yeah, I grew up with, um,
great food. My family all great cooks. It's like, what
are you having for dinner is still the best thing
that we talk to each other about when we talk. Um,
but they didn't understand my restaurant obsession at all. And they. Yeah,
they really thought that I was a crazy person for
being kind of this, you know, 20 year old Ratbag
(02:03):
waitress living in New York City and like, you know,
saving up my pennies to go eat at Danielle or
taking the subway for two hours to get to Queens
to find some Egyptian chicken hearts or whatever. And again,
now that's a pretty, um, common cultural, um, obsession. Like
young people are really into food now, but that just
was not the case when I started out.
S1 (02:25):
And you've been writing for 20 years. So just tell us,
why have you aimed to remain anonymous for all that time?
S2 (02:32):
Yeah. I mean, I think that we forget, um, how
long ago, 20 years was because I didn't make a
decision to be anonymous at that point. Everybody was anonymous.
There wasn't any social media, and certainly cell phone cameras
weren't around. Um, so and anonymity and food criticism was
by far the standard at that point in time. So
(02:53):
it was before it was, you know, this massive thing
where everybody had their photo online. I just never did.
And so I started really right before that changed. And um,
and anonymity was the standard for restaurant critics. So I
just followed that standard.
S1 (03:12):
And why was it such a precious tool, though? Tell
us about why it's been so useful.
S2 (03:16):
Look, there is a lot of good arguments to be
made that a restaurant cannot change the nature of who
they are when you walk in the door. Um, and
I think that that is true. They can't change the food.
They can't change how, you know, they could maybe put
their better server on for you or, you know, make
(03:37):
sure that nothing bad happens to your table, um, give
you the nice cut of meat, those types of things.
But for me, it was much more about being able
to not make people anxious to, like, have a, um,
a meal that was very similar to anybody else. Um,
and to, you know, No, not have that kind of
(03:59):
strained interaction. I think the other real thing is that,
you know, there are certain restaurants, especially at the very
high end, that, um, a regular person might feel a
little bit uncomfortable in. I think many readers can kind
of imagine if you go to, you know, a kind
of three hat type of experience. Um, and I spent
(04:21):
a lot of my career, you know, I still I
shop at op shops, like, I'm not a fancy person.
So going to those types of restaurants kind of looking
like the person who, um, couldn't afford to be there
and therefore was probably there for a very special occasion. Right. Um,
getting treated exceptionally well in those circumstances, um, even looking
(04:45):
like the least VIP customer is, to me, the mark
of an actually, like, world class restaurant when they try
to make even the least important guest feel really special
and wonderful. I'm going to lose that ability because they're
going to try to make it wonderful for me no
matter what I look like, probably. And then there's the opposite,
which is the more obvious one, which is that, you know,
(05:07):
there was certainly I think this was more an issue
in Los Angeles than I hope it would be in Melbourne.
But there was a long time in LA where I
was reviewing at the same time as Jonathan Gold. And
Jonathan was a very easily recognizable dude. And, um, and
he had very different experiences to me. Um, and I
think that that kind of like understanding when a restaurant
(05:29):
is sorting people by importance and giving you two different experiences,
even though you're both paying the same amount of money. Um,
that's helpful too. Um, but look, really the main thing
for me is just I would love to just be
able to experience the restaurant the way that anybody else does.
And I think that that is really helpful. And I'm
going to keep trying. I mean, um, last night was
(05:52):
my first night out after my photo had come out
in a restaurant that I know that they follow me
on Instagram. I know that, you know, they're probably looking
out for me. They know that they're going to be
reviewed soon. Um, I don't know if they recognized me
or not, but, you know, I did certain things to
try to make that less likely. I'm not going to
go into what those things are. I don't want to
(06:12):
give away my playbook. But, um, but, you know, I'm
hoping to still kind of stay under the radar as
much as possible.
S1 (06:20):
Okay. So I want to get into how your life
is going to change dramatically. I would have thought, by
unmasking yourself, but I just want you to take us through,
I guess, how difficult it has been to remain anonymous
for so long, because you have said that being anonymous
is by far the most complicated and silliest part of
my job. So how silly does it get? And tell
us about some close calls.
S2 (06:40):
I mean, again, it happens all the time has happened
since I started. You know, one of the I reviews
that I wrote in Atlanta within the first year of
being a critic, the manager came up to the table
and said, hi, are you Bashar Adel? You know, and
I played dumb and said, oh, who's that? And you know,
which I don't do anymore. If somebody says hi, I'm
(07:01):
just like, hi, you know.
S1 (07:01):
And I'm just curious, were you with anyone at the time?
Were you were like, no, I'm not.
S2 (07:05):
I was, I was with my family. Yeah, I was
with my family.
S1 (07:08):
And were your family like, nothing to see here?
S2 (07:10):
Yeah, they were, but they used to. I mean, they
kind of. I have a 21 year old son who
was a toddler when I started. Um, and, uh, they're
used to it. Him and my husband just both are
kind of like, I roll, like, my kid will be like, oh,
they're gossiping in the corner. I think you've been made.
I mean, I think that the silliest part of it
is that kind of inherent. Either way you play it,
(07:31):
it has a whiff of self-importance. So, you know, um,
I have credit cards in multiple different names. I have
multiple different emails, all of that stuff. But the stuff
that's embarrassing is when you are going to your kid's
school and they want to take photos of the class
with their parents. And I'm like, no, sorry, I can't
be in the photo. You know, my best friend got married, uh,
(07:52):
a couple years ago. I was the maid of honor,
and I had to be like, you know, I would
love to do this, but you got to keep your
wedding photos off the internet. Then, you know, at least
the ones with your bridal party in it. Again, it's
making her day about me and my job. Like, that's
it's just it's embarrassing. And it also puts attention on me.
It kind of presupposes that I want to tell everybody, oh,
(08:13):
I'm a restaurant critic, you know, which I'm just like,
I just can't be in the photo. Like, can we
just leave it at that? You know.
S1 (08:18):
And wasn't there a campaign of sorts to out you
in LA?
S2 (08:22):
There was. Um, so eater is, uh, now a very
respected publication that I've written for and, um, you know,
James Beard Award nominees came out and I think it
got a bunch of them, as they usually do. But
back in the day, they were a little bit more
like kind of the TMZ of the food world. They
kind of dabbled in that for a while, and they
actually had a, um, like a column basically that was
(08:43):
called To Catch a Critic, and they were trying to
out restaurant critics. Um, a couple years later, they got
their own anonymous restaurant critics. But for a little while, um,
they were they were trying to out restaurant critics. And
when I arrived in Los Angeles, it was kind of
at the height of that. Um, the woman who was
the editor of Ida La at that point was kind
of into the reality TV world and stuff. So she
(09:06):
was really into that kind of like, um, you know,
high stakes, high drama stuff. And so they found a
photo of me from a panel I had been on,
and they put it on the website, and it was
before I had even reviewed anything in LA. It was like,
right when I got there and, um, yeah. And luckily
the photographer asked them to take it down and they
(09:28):
took it down. So it was only up for a
little while. It was pretty blurry, and it was a
very unflattering photo. Um, and then a couple of weeks later,
they found a photo from a newspaper I'd worked for
in North Carolina years before, and it was actually a
photo that I had taken of one of my mother
in law's friends. Um, but it had a photo credit
(09:49):
that was mine, and they thought it was a caption.
So they put up that picture, which is amazing because
it was like this, you know, 55 year old southern
woman with a mullet. It didn't look anything like me,
and it made me feel really good because I was like, well,
if they think that, that's what I possibly could look like,
having seen the other photo, then I could look like
any white lady between like 20 and 70, basically.
S1 (10:13):
And I betcha you moved back to Melbourne, where you
were born about seven years ago. So what was it
like until now? Of course, trying to be anonymous here.
And did you have any close calls? Complaints. You know,
what was it like trying to be anonymous here compared
to other places?
S2 (10:29):
I mean, the interesting thing is, I think that every
other city that I've lived in, the chef community in particular,
actually really appreciated it, the anonymity and, um, you know,
I think that a lot of them do here too. They,
they understand why it, it it helps and is important
and kind of all of that stuff. Um in Australia.
(10:53):
I have had a lot more, um, kind of resistance
to the whole idea of restaurant criticism as an act,
almost as an act of journalism, honestly, you know. Um,
and there's I think that there's something in Australian culture
of overall that is, um, you know, you don't criticise people.
(11:14):
You only say the nice thing. Um, and I think
that the part of the reason for that, especially in
the arts, is that Australia hasn't been given the respect
that it deserves internationally for its food, for its art,
for its literature. And so, you know, there's this kind
of culture of boosterism where, you know, we all want
to say, yes, Australia is fantastic. Um, let's let's celebrate
(11:39):
it and not say anything bad about it ever, you know?
But the reality is that I don't want to blow smoke.
I don't I don't want to tell people. I don't
think it helps to tell people that, you know, if
their mum, their girlfriend or boyfriend, their the owner of
the restaurant, everybody is going to be like, this is amazing.
(12:01):
Your restaurant is so good. And yeah, you need that
feedback too. But I'm not your mum, so I think
it's okay for one person to say, yeah, really good.
This is what's great about it. These are the things
that I, you know, struggled with and that I think
could be actually done better. And, and my whole hope
is that, you know, they either take that advice and
(12:22):
get better or it makes them think. And they're like, nah,
she's wrong. I'm sticking to my guns. This is what
I meant to do. And and there's value in that too,
you know?
S1 (12:34):
We'll be right back. So better now you after so long.
I think you were one of the last remaining anonymous
food critics. But now you are revealing yourself. So why?
Why are you showing your face now?
S2 (12:49):
So I have a book coming out. It's coming out
June 17th in Australia. And I want I want to
promote the book. I mean, it's a purely selfish reason.
I have to say, you know, my bosses at The
Age were not thrilled about it. They really wanted me
to keep the anonymity, which I totally understood. We had
a long back and forth about it, but I think
(13:10):
they finally understood that for me, my life's work is
not just this. This is a huge part of my
life's work, and it is has been my life's work
for the last 20 years. But I have more in me,
you know, I have I have more to me, I think,
than just being an anonymous restaurant critic. And I'm really
proud of this book. And my publisher really wanted me
(13:31):
to promote it. They wanted me to be able to
go out and do events. Um, and, you know, I'm leaving, um, to,
to go to the US to do a kind of
mini book tour. And, and people are really excited about
those events and that's really lovely. And so the, um, the,
the real upside for me is that I hope that
I can connect with my community and with readers in
(13:54):
a more genuine way. I mean, I have a pretty
good pen pal relationship with a lot of readers, but like, um,
you know, getting to meet people in person, getting to
sign books in person without this, again, the kind of
silliness of a disguise or, um, some kind of way
of hiding myself, which we definitely discussed as a possibility,
(14:15):
but I just couldn't bear the kind of, again, inherent
self-importance of playing that game anymore. I just felt like
there has to be a reason that this is this
is the reason. So time's up.
S1 (14:27):
Is there anything you're anxious about? I guess because I
heard you say in an interview that you are very
anxious about showing your face. You know that it's been
a lovely blessing not to have your physical appearance, to
be part of your brand in any way. And I've
got to ask, like, are you worried about bumping into
any of the chefs who, you know, whose reviews I'm
thinking about? Bar patron by Rockpool. I'm going to quote here, uh,
(14:48):
one of their tacos was wildly disappointing. The salsa tasted
of cumin and water. That's obviously, you know, not even
by far the harshest. But like, are you worried about
bumping into Neil Perry?
S2 (14:58):
I'm not worried about bumping into Neil Perry at all.
I think Neil Perry is one of those operators who
actually is, is really smart and has been around the
block to, you know, and would not have taken he
wouldn't have liked that review, but I don't think that
it would have made him hate my guts. I could
be wrong, you know? But, you know, I'm I'm not
(15:18):
worried about bumping into chefs who I have reviewed. I mean, um,
I think, you know, that has happened again in the past.
You know, I have I have met people who I've
given harder reviews to. I mean, it's actually funny, again,
in Los Angeles, more than I've experienced here more often.
What would happen and what happened when I left LA
is a lot of chefs reached out to me who
(15:40):
I had been kind of harsh with and said, you know,
it was actually really helpful. I mean, that's that's not everybody,
but it certainly was my relationship with a lot of
the chefs in LA who I did that thing of saying,
you are very talented. This is a really interesting thing
that you're trying to do, and here are the places
(16:01):
where you know, your ego or some idea that you're
sticking to or whatever is getting in the way, you know.
And I mean, Curtis Stone was one of those people.
He's talked about it quite publicly, where he had this restaurant, Gwen,
that opened in Hollywood, and it was a prefix and
it was a steakhouse, and a prefix was not right
for being a steakhouse. It was too weird of a concept.
(16:22):
And I said that and he was really disappointed. And
then he was like, you were right. And I changed it.
And it's better now, you know? So that's the relationship
I hope to have with any chef, really, honestly or
any operator that I've, um, written about. Um, but I
also don't really plan on going out and like, being
(16:42):
buddies with all of these folks. I'm still going to
try to keep a kind of low profile. I'm not
going to go to media dinners. I'm probably not going
to become like the face of good food in the
way that some previous critics have. Um, I don't go
to the awards just because it just I don't want
to I don't I don't want to socialize with folks
that I am writing about. It just feels like a
(17:05):
bit of a conflict. So I'm going to continue to,
to do that.
S1 (17:08):
And now that we're talking about, you know, relationships between
you and various restaurateurs, we've got to talk about your
review in April of Melbourne restaurant Attica. This is obviously
an internationally renowned establishment. It's your last anonymous review for
good food. But it would also have to be I mean,
correct me if I'm wrong, please. One of your most controversial.
S2 (17:26):
Oh, absolutely.
S1 (17:27):
Yeah. So tell me what this was all about and
why you saved this one for last.
S2 (17:31):
The timing was actually completely random. Um, I had always
wanted to review Attica in the 20th year that Ben
Shourie had been operating it. I had planned on doing
that for years ago. Um, and then I had a
friend in town from LA who was eating at all
(17:52):
of the kind of great Melbourne restaurants, and he wanted
to go to Attica. And so I said, yeah, let's go.
The downside of the timing is that Ben and I
had just kind of had this kerfuffle. He has a
book out in which he takes aim at restaurant critics
in particular, really is unhappy with The Good Food Guide.
S1 (18:08):
I'm just going to interject here, he wrote in his book.
I believe that it was damaging to the mental health
of his staff, I think when reviewers are there. So
he was sort of really taking issue with being reviewed, right?
S2 (18:18):
Yes, absolutely. And he said that he doesn't consent to
being reviewed. And a lot of people have brought that up,
especially on social media in the weeks since that review.
That is the thing that keeps coming up is like, well,
this guy didn't consent to this review. And you know,
that isn't how journalism works, unfortunately. You know, and I
(18:39):
and I think it's this kind of double edged sword
because food people want to be taken seriously as artists,
as tradespeople, as business people, and in which case they
get held to the same kind of journalistic standards as
we would judge a book or a piece of art
or or any other business, you know.
S1 (18:58):
Well, just because the listeners might not have read this
particular review, I do have to put one quote in
because I haven't been there. But when you wrote that
it has a map of Australia made from fish, I
was like, I'm in. And then and then you said,
and you said, and it tastes good. You're like a
map of Australia made from fish is funny. And because
it tastes good, it's also very fun. But when it's
delivered with all the humor of a mathematics dissertation, you
(19:20):
wonder if you misread the joke so that that's your
problem there, wasn't it?
S2 (19:23):
Yeah, absolutely. And it's not a huge problem. I mean, again,
this is a very strong two hat restaurant in my mind. And,
you know, I think it's it's it's an experience that
you just will not forget. It's absolutely worth having. Um, but,
you know, I think it's worth pointing out, especially at
an era in which, um, Australian hospitality at that high
(19:46):
end is just so good right now and so fun.
And because. Attica is part of the reason that that
is the case, like they were some of the first
people to bring in that style of service, and it's
just gotten less fun and less warm over the years.
And I'm not sure why.
S1 (20:03):
And I guess just to wrap up, why is critiquing
what we eat important?
S2 (20:08):
I think that, you know, food, especially in a city
like Melbourne or Sydney, is such a huge part of
what makes a city a joyful place to live on
a day to day basis. Because of that, it's really
important to support our hospitality industry. And I think, again,
(20:30):
very self-serving, but I believe it having good criticism in
a city helps to maintain the health of that city's
food scene. It just it creates a conversation around it.
It creates, you know, people, people are People excited about it.
And obviously there are a lot of voices out there.
There's a lot of social media, a lot of TikTok,
(20:50):
a lot of people in this space at this point,
all of which is like super valid. And I am
very happy that all of those voices exist. But I
think it's a real public service on the part of
a media organization to pay somebody to do it professionally
so that, you know, that that person hasn't been bought off,
isn't getting a free meal out of it. I mean,
(21:12):
I'm so lucky because I get to say, oh, okay,
here's this restaurant. Let me look at the history of
the chef. Let me look at the history of this
kind of cuisine. Let me look at how this cuisine
has progressed in the world and in this city. You know,
there's a lot of research that goes into it. So
I just again, it's a self-serving thing, but I think
it's important.
S1 (21:34):
Well, you're exposed now. Yeah, literally and figuratively. And we're
privileged that you've done it here. So thank you so
much for your time.
S2 (21:41):
Thank you so much for having me.
S1 (21:46):
And if you'd like to read more, Becca Odell's memoir,
Hunger Like a Thirst, comes out in Australia on June 17th.
Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by Josh
Towers and Julia Carcasole. Our executive producer is Tammy Mills.
Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. To listen to
(22:07):
our episodes as soon as they drop, follow the Morning
Edition on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Our newsrooms are powered by subscriptions, so to support independent journalism,
visit The Age or smh.com.au. Subscribe and to stay up
to date. Sign up to our Morning Edition newsletter to
receive a summary of the day's most important news in
(22:28):
your inbox every morning. Links are in the show. Notes.
I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. Thanks for listening.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.