January 28, 2023 • 11 mins
When the CEO of Tennis Australia and AO Tournament Director comes to the Pride Hub for a chat, we all sit up and listen. Craig Tiley talks to Sam Koslowski about leadership, how his past has informed his perspectives on pride, diversity and inclusion, and the power of sport to shift conversations.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The time for talking is over. The match clock showing
four hours and twelve minutes. It all love, zoom Jack,
curiosity fits meThe two.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
About that, we're coming up the lines. What's gonna line
of that?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The Precious Snag is a rampay on a doubt classic.
It called Hello and welcome to another episode of Out
in the Open. My name is Sam Kauzlowski. I'm from
the Daily OZ and we're doing this podcast with the
Australian Open, MasterCard and TDA altogether to come and have
some really good conversations about pride in tennis. Today's guests
(00:43):
the Big Boss Craig Tiley. Craig actually started at Tennis
Australia in two thousand and five and in two thousand
and six he was named as Director of the AO.
When Tennis Australia's CEO stepped down in twenty thirteen, it
was Craig Tyler he was tapped on the shoulder for
the top job. Now, a big focus of Craig Tilery's
leadership here at the AO has been his inclusion and
diversity policies. He's got a fantastic team around him and
(01:05):
so when we offered him the opportunity to come to
the Pride Hub for a chat, he jumped at it.
Here is that discussion, Craig, thanks so much for joining
us at the Pride Hub. How has your tournament been.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's been awesome. Yeah, you can see sitting in here.
There's a lot of people again on site and I
think we were surprised on the first day with how
much pent up demand there must have been to want
to come out to the event, a lot of walk
up sport tickets and the first day we just smashed
any record we had before. And we're not seeking records
(01:41):
every day. We seeking to give on a good time.
So from that point of view, it's been really good.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I was having a chat with Kate Jenkins yesterday, the
Sex Discrimination Commissioner, and she made this really interesting comment
that in her opinion, sport is a human right, and
we had this conversation about how enjoying sport is also
a human right.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How proud are you of how many Australians are enjoying
the tennis.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I think for many reasons that we're really proud and
in there well, primarily because that our ultimate objective is
anyone that wants to participate in our sport, whether it
be're coming to watch it, he had this round open
or play it is should have an opportunity to do that,
and should have an equal opportunity to do that. And
the objective we have every single day is that there's
(02:29):
no one that doesn't feel welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Everyone feels welcome, and so part of what we're doing
here at the Pride Hob is making sure that everyone
feels welcome. Let me take you back ten years. How
different was the intersection between LGBT issues and sport.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, I think I still think there's a lot of issues.
I don't think and I think it's a journey that
sport continues to go on. I only am an authority
on tennis in this but so don't speak for others,
but I have an opinion. But when it comes to
our sport, inclusion, diversity and equality are really at the
(03:06):
core of everything we do. And when it came to equality,
it was over forty years ago we paid men and
women the same amount of money and based on the performance,
and everyone criticized the woman only played two out of
three sets, the men played three out of five. They
work longer, they should be paid more, they bring more
interests globally from a broadcast perspective, and we never bought
into that. We're brought into the business opportunity and the
(03:27):
opportunity for both and now that's just become part of
the DNA. And then when it comes to inclusion and diversity,
there were many people sitting around the room making up
rules or regulations on who should participate and who should not,
But primarily they were all the same people sitting around
the room. So unless everyone's in the conversation, you don't
(03:48):
get the outcome. So I think that's where our sports
has also shifted over the years and been doing it
more than ten years ago. But I do think that
there's still a journey to go because you and why
are we at the Astraila Open trying to showcase that
inclusion for everyone is so critically important to us.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And one of the ways that I think tennis really
needs to move forward is we need to see an
out male player on the circuity. What steps do you
think we need to take as a sport to get
to that destination.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well, if there's not the comfort that that anyone can
have to be who they are, then it's not going
to happen. So That's why I say we still got
a ways to go, because that hasn't happened, and you know,
adversity on the woman's side, there's the environment is set
up where it's very comfortable for everyone, and it's I
(04:39):
mean not a big fan of always saying normalized because
I think I think it's we've got to go beyond
normalized because we've got all got work embraced, We've got
to be as Eiger using that from now on. But
I think just yeah, embrace, celebrated, embraced, congratulated, you know,
in many ways, held upon a pedestal because you know,
(05:00):
no one can appreciate the difficulty anyone would have in
an environment where someone doesn't feel inclusive, and whether it
be for any reason. And I think that I'm very
sensitive to that because growing up in an environment where
there was discrimination, and fortunately have been in a family
where you had to fight that and you chose to
(05:22):
fight that. We didn't have to because we were part
of a privileged group. So I think that I'm always
appreciative of having that upbringing. So I do have a
higher sensitivity to it from a leadership point of view,
and I think that and that's why I said your
question on that as it relates to the male side,
I think that that's an important thing that's got to happen,
(05:44):
and we've got to make sure that that environment's created
a year round, not just the two weeks of Israel open.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So then what's the role of the Aussie open when
the Aussi Open is not. I mean, it's fantastic having
the pride up here and talking about it right now,
for the other fifty weeks a year, what can we
be doing.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
One thing I've learned about human beings is the good copiers.
So and I've always said, what's the definition of an idea? Steal?
Baby steal? So if we can do things that people
can see, maybe can get repeated or there's also human
means are naturally competitive, so if we do something that
people see, they may want to do it the same
and do it better, which is fantastic. So I just
(06:22):
it just it has to be brought out. It has
to be the question you asked about on the mail
side has to be constantly asked. You know, there were
years when people ask that question to get it Ooh,
I better not answer that directly, you know. So I
think that that's just it will continue to play upart,
will continue to invest in Pride Day. And I said
to the team, I said, it's great having Pride Day,
but every day should be Pride Day. And so let's
(06:44):
challenge ourselves for that. It's great having the Glam Slam Championships,
which the team have done a magnificent job of growing.
You know, it's now being commercialized. He's selling tickets to it.
But let's repeat that at every other Slam and it's
and so I think just you know, creating the environment
where we tennis can be a shining light inclusivity, but
it's got to be careful. It's just not window dressing, uh.
(07:05):
And it has to be authentic and it has to
be actionable.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And what's the role of brands in that? I mean
that's a discussion that comes up all the time, window
window dressing and brands getting around a particular day. What's
the role of Corporate Australia in this discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think Corporate Australia. While everyone in Corporate Australia say yes,
we agree, again, it's not enough. I think the and
you know, talk to those that don't feel included and
talk to those that don't feel like that they have
that opportunity and then design your strategy around their ANSWER's
not around yours. And and I think that's that's what
(07:43):
is missing. And I think that the I mean, I
still sear stories where brands won't you know, don't want
to go near it because it's not it's it's not
their their positioning. And and I don't I don't use
an inappropriate term, but but I just think that's it's
a bunch of hogwash, because it's just it's a it's
(08:03):
a we have an opportunity in this in our environment
right now, and again speaking from the Tennis authority, nothing else,
but we do have an opportunity to do a lot
more and to celebrate a lot more, and to create
environments where you know, you don't have to think about
those conversations.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Last question from me, Yeah, fifty years time, AO twenty
seventy three, should there be a pride hub?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
No, tell me about that, because hopefully there's no prejudice
in people's minds and or in people's behaviors and our
community of people, and it's definitely happening more with the
youth than the older people, but our community of people,
it's just seamless. Everyone's inclusivity and the diversity of the
(08:53):
thinking and the diversity of decisions. It's just it's part
of our DNA, it's our human behavior, and it's completely
integrated it. That would be you did ask fifty years
from now from an aspirational point of view, that would
be an optimistic one. I'm sure we be working towards that.
And I think I'd be disappointed if if fifty year
is a long time, So I'd say even sooner. I
(09:14):
we just pointed if we weren't kind of in that,
in that, in that frame of mind, and that and
that and that action.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's in some ways a privilege that we're in the
moment where we are talking about it, pride up, and
we are making that change. And I hope you're right
there in fifty years time, there actually isn't one, because
every day's pride day. As somebody said on the podcast yesterday.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's where and that's where
you know, we again alsos encourage our team is that
we have a community, have got to be the one
that we can We can lead in many ways, and
and we're not doing it because we want to lead.
We want we're doing it because it is the right
thing to do, and it's the right thing to do
from from a living point of view. I mean, I
(09:54):
really struggle often when there's actually a conversation on on
finding ways to include people. You know, it just it
doesn't seem in this day and age we should be
doing it. But we still got the struggles as you know,
and the battles we're doing. That's why people like yourself
and to the podcast and others will continue to help
lead that and change that. And I know it's not
that easy.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Craig Talie. Someone said to me yesterday that you're the
beating heart of Australian tennis and it's been a pleasure
they get to know that heart a little more.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, thank you. It's always great, great to have a
chat and it's getting pretty warm and yeah, thanks, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
He
The time for talking is over. The match clock showing
four hours and twelve minutes. It all love, zoom Jack,
curiosity fits meThe two.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
About that, we're coming up the lines. What's gonna line
of that?
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Oh good?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
The Precious Snag is a rampay on a doubt classic.
It called Hello and welcome to another episode of Out
in the Open. My name is Sam Kauzlowski. I'm from
the Daily OZ and we're doing this podcast with the
Australian Open, MasterCard and TDA altogether to come and have
some really good conversations about pride in tennis. Today's guests
(00:43):
the Big Boss Craig Tiley. Craig actually started at Tennis
Australia in two thousand and five and in two thousand
and six he was named as Director of the AO.
When Tennis Australia's CEO stepped down in twenty thirteen, it
was Craig Tyler he was tapped on the shoulder for
the top job. Now, a big focus of Craig Tilery's
leadership here at the AO has been his inclusion and
diversity policies. He's got a fantastic team around him and
(01:05):
so when we offered him the opportunity to come to
the Pride Hub for a chat, he jumped at it.
Here is that discussion, Craig, thanks so much for joining
us at the Pride Hub. How has your tournament been.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
It's been awesome. Yeah, you can see sitting in here.
There's a lot of people again on site and I
think we were surprised on the first day with how
much pent up demand there must have been to want
to come out to the event, a lot of walk
up sport tickets and the first day we just smashed
any record we had before. And we're not seeking records
(01:41):
every day. We seeking to give on a good time.
So from that point of view, it's been really good.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
I was having a chat with Kate Jenkins yesterday, the
Sex Discrimination Commissioner, and she made this really interesting comment
that in her opinion, sport is a human right, and
we had this conversation about how enjoying sport is also
a human right.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
How proud are you of how many Australians are enjoying
the tennis.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I think for many reasons that we're really proud and
in there well, primarily because that our ultimate objective is
anyone that wants to participate in our sport, whether it
be're coming to watch it, he had this round open
or play it is should have an opportunity to do that,
and should have an equal opportunity to do that. And
the objective we have every single day is that there's
(02:29):
no one that doesn't feel welcome.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Everyone feels welcome, and so part of what we're doing
here at the Pride Hob is making sure that everyone
feels welcome. Let me take you back ten years. How
different was the intersection between LGBT issues and sport.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Well, I think I still think there's a lot of issues.
I don't think and I think it's a journey that
sport continues to go on. I only am an authority
on tennis in this but so don't speak for others,
but I have an opinion. But when it comes to
our sport, inclusion, diversity and equality are really at the
(03:06):
core of everything we do. And when it came to equality,
it was over forty years ago we paid men and
women the same amount of money and based on the performance,
and everyone criticized the woman only played two out of
three sets, the men played three out of five. They
work longer, they should be paid more, they bring more
interests globally from a broadcast perspective, and we never bought
into that. We're brought into the business opportunity and the
(03:27):
opportunity for both and now that's just become part of
the DNA. And then when it comes to inclusion and diversity,
there were many people sitting around the room making up
rules or regulations on who should participate and who should not,
But primarily they were all the same people sitting around
the room. So unless everyone's in the conversation, you don't
(03:48):
get the outcome. So I think that's where our sports
has also shifted over the years and been doing it
more than ten years ago. But I do think that
there's still a journey to go because you and why
are we at the Astraila Open trying to showcase that
inclusion for everyone is so critically important to us.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
And one of the ways that I think tennis really
needs to move forward is we need to see an
out male player on the circuity. What steps do you
think we need to take as a sport to get
to that destination.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Well, if there's not the comfort that that anyone can
have to be who they are, then it's not going
to happen. So That's why I say we still got
a ways to go, because that hasn't happened, and you know,
adversity on the woman's side, there's the environment is set
up where it's very comfortable for everyone, and it's I
(04:39):
mean not a big fan of always saying normalized because
I think I think it's we've got to go beyond
normalized because we've got all got work embraced, We've got
to be as Eiger using that from now on. But
I think just yeah, embrace, celebrated, embraced, congratulated, you know,
in many ways, held upon a pedestal because you know,
(05:00):
no one can appreciate the difficulty anyone would have in
an environment where someone doesn't feel inclusive, and whether it
be for any reason. And I think that I'm very
sensitive to that because growing up in an environment where
there was discrimination, and fortunately have been in a family
where you had to fight that and you chose to
(05:22):
fight that. We didn't have to because we were part
of a privileged group. So I think that I'm always
appreciative of having that upbringing. So I do have a
higher sensitivity to it from a leadership point of view,
and I think that and that's why I said your
question on that as it relates to the male side,
I think that that's an important thing that's got to happen,
(05:44):
and we've got to make sure that that environment's created
a year round, not just the two weeks of Israel open.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So then what's the role of the Aussie open when
the Aussi Open is not. I mean, it's fantastic having
the pride up here and talking about it right now,
for the other fifty weeks a year, what can we
be doing.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
One thing I've learned about human beings is the good copiers.
So and I've always said, what's the definition of an idea? Steal?
Baby steal? So if we can do things that people
can see, maybe can get repeated or there's also human
means are naturally competitive, so if we do something that
people see, they may want to do it the same
and do it better, which is fantastic. So I just
(06:22):
it just it has to be brought out. It has
to be the question you asked about on the mail
side has to be constantly asked. You know, there were
years when people ask that question to get it Ooh,
I better not answer that directly, you know. So I
think that that's just it will continue to play upart,
will continue to invest in Pride Day. And I said
to the team, I said, it's great having Pride Day,
but every day should be Pride Day. And so let's
(06:44):
challenge ourselves for that. It's great having the Glam Slam Championships,
which the team have done a magnificent job of growing.
You know, it's now being commercialized. He's selling tickets to it.
But let's repeat that at every other Slam and it's
and so I think just you know, creating the environment
where we tennis can be a shining light inclusivity, but
it's got to be careful. It's just not window dressing, uh.
(07:05):
And it has to be authentic and it has to
be actionable.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
And what's the role of brands in that? I mean
that's a discussion that comes up all the time, window
window dressing and brands getting around a particular day. What's
the role of Corporate Australia in this discussion.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
I think Corporate Australia. While everyone in Corporate Australia say yes,
we agree, again, it's not enough. I think the and
you know, talk to those that don't feel included and
talk to those that don't feel like that they have
that opportunity and then design your strategy around their ANSWER's
not around yours. And and I think that's that's what
(07:43):
is missing. And I think that the I mean, I
still sear stories where brands won't you know, don't want
to go near it because it's not it's it's not
their their positioning. And and I don't I don't use
an inappropriate term, but but I just think that's it's
a bunch of hogwash, because it's just it's a it's
(08:03):
a we have an opportunity in this in our environment
right now, and again speaking from the Tennis authority, nothing else,
but we do have an opportunity to do a lot
more and to celebrate a lot more, and to create
environments where you know, you don't have to think about
those conversations.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
Last question from me, Yeah, fifty years time, AO twenty
seventy three, should there be a pride hub?
Speaker 1 (08:31):
No, tell me about that, because hopefully there's no prejudice
in people's minds and or in people's behaviors and our
community of people, and it's definitely happening more with the
youth than the older people, but our community of people,
it's just seamless. Everyone's inclusivity and the diversity of the
(08:53):
thinking and the diversity of decisions. It's just it's part
of our DNA, it's our human behavior, and it's completely
integrated it. That would be you did ask fifty years
from now from an aspirational point of view, that would
be an optimistic one. I'm sure we be working towards that.
And I think I'd be disappointed if if fifty year
is a long time, So I'd say even sooner. I
(09:14):
we just pointed if we weren't kind of in that,
in that, in that frame of mind, and that and
that and that action.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
It's in some ways a privilege that we're in the
moment where we are talking about it, pride up, and
we are making that change. And I hope you're right
there in fifty years time, there actually isn't one, because
every day's pride day. As somebody said on the podcast yesterday.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think that's where and that's where
you know, we again alsos encourage our team is that
we have a community, have got to be the one
that we can We can lead in many ways, and
and we're not doing it because we want to lead.
We want we're doing it because it is the right
thing to do, and it's the right thing to do
from from a living point of view. I mean, I
(09:54):
really struggle often when there's actually a conversation on on
finding ways to include people. You know, it just it
doesn't seem in this day and age we should be
doing it. But we still got the struggles as you know,
and the battles we're doing. That's why people like yourself
and to the podcast and others will continue to help
lead that and change that. And I know it's not
that easy.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Craig Talie. Someone said to me yesterday that you're the
beating heart of Australian tennis and it's been a pleasure
they get to know that heart a little more.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
No, thank you. It's always great, great to have a
chat and it's getting pretty warm and yeah, thanks, thank you.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
He
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.