September 21, 2025 • 45 mins
You probably know Sassy Scott from the internet, where he and his brother Luke go viral for driving each other absolutely mad. The bickering, the banter, the pranks… Classic sibling love that’s now the backbone of their hit podcast, Luke & Sassy Scott.
He's recently become a parent to twin boys with his husband, Marcus.
Scotty opens up about his six-year journey to fatherhood with his husband, Marcus. From the highs of hope to the heartbreaks along the way, their path through surrogacy has been anything but simple.
It’s taken years of resilience, sacrifice, and determination to get to the moment they finally became parents to twin boys.
Listen to Luke and Sassy Scott Podcast
https://open.spotify.com/show/1zJ2Mb6BjSMV236TBSSQre
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Mister Wicks, it's Johnson. You know you're in for a
wild ride when you have white Sassie Scott on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He's a ball of energy. He's also very funny.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Do you know what I like most about him? There's
people we see online and then you meet them in
person and you think, oh, you're really different to how
you were online.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
He is.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
What you see on social media is exactly what he's
like in person.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
He's loud, hilarious, but he's also very empathetic man.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Isn't he. Yes, yeah, he's got a hard out of shell,
but once you break that down, he's all gooey inside.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well said.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You may have seen him on social media with his
brother Luke. They often go very viral, a bit trump asque,
annoy the ship out of each other, to put it simply.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
But we're not here to talk about comical sibling rivalry,
are we, Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Scott has been on a six year journey to become
a father with his husband Mark. This has quite literally
taken them on a roller coaster of emotion.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yes, Scott, Mark is. They decided to take the surrogacy route,
which meant a great deal of time and money in
pursuit of one goal to become parents.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thankfully they got their wish, but it was by no
means easy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Let's get into it. Welcome back to three doting dads.
I am Maddie Jay, I'm Ash and I'm Sazzy Scott.
(01:36):
And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
the good, it is the bad and the relatable. And
if you come for advice.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yes you remember, we don't do it. We don't do it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I got distracted by the house here where Okay, we're
not in our normal recording studio and the acoustics are great.
We're in the snow in East Genderbne and the house
is creaking.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I have no idea where we are. I have to
look at a map before Google Maps. There's no shame
in the world. I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How did you get from Canberra to here?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
God? Driven? Hell, you got driven last night? You did
the first hour.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I was like I needed a little story and I
was like, yeah, cool, And then isn't it weird? Were
like I was like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I talked to pass the time.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I just need to I just need to continue to
talk all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Or I get bored or destructive? What would you prefer?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Sorry, you're right. So this is a fun little situation
where we are all on a little trip away thanks
to Red Bull. We're at Perisher East Gindy.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
At the moment it is about to say thread both.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Snow, it's all the same. It's all the same.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
What's that? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Thank you, thank you? And we actually we've been trying
to get you for a little while. Your motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah again, you have no choice.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
As soon as Luke was like, hey, why don't you
try to go more like, yeah, damning do it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm going to watch my clock because we have we
have it forty minutes. We have a dinner booking. It's
for Italian. The last thing I want to do is
hold you back from Italian?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What are you at Italian? What's your What I'm really into?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
At the moment, people are like when the are they
talking about?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Kids?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Later?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Spaghetti and berry? Oh? What is that?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I'm glad you asked. It's like it's bougie. I know
I'm not. I'm a man of the people. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's a lobster.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It's like a seafood lobs yess, like a seafood prawn.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Okay, yeah, I'm spaghetti bolin AI's with vanilla ice cream
afterwards all the time, no matter where I am in
the world.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What do you what do you mean? Are you twelve?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
That's not what my kids.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
He likes the sweet tree getting away from like family.
You guys, WO know this.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
It's like I used to when I traveled for work,
even now for work, and people are like, come out
after the gig or whatever. I'm like, I've got something
really important get to I go back to the hotel room.
I just sit in the bed spaghetti boll and as
with vanilla ice cream.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
How long have you been sober for now? I think
I'm five years in Teguary. I think last time I
asked you that was two years ago. So three. Yeah, wow,
very much. We usually start this off.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We're finding a little bit about you as a child
and god, just a quick question.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
My only picture of Scott is when you had those
blonde tips at the front. I don't know how old
you were iconic nineteen then.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Nah, I was in no, I was in high school.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I was hanging around a lot of dodgy ass guys,
really really funny area.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
This question is going to be perfect. Then what's the
most trouble you remember getting in as a child. Listen,
there's lots anything.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Spring to mind.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, stealing cars? Nice? Love that, Yes, don't condone it anymore.
Just one time stealing.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
One funny time was when I stole them and Dad's
car and then it was a manual and I had
my mates in the back and we had to jump
start it because the steering wheel locked. I know how
to unlock it, and it got caught out in the
middle of the road. So anyway, we had to push
it all the way back down the road. Cops came
and got us out of the car. I talked this
(05:24):
absolute like smack and got us out of it.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I bet you did.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I was able to hustle and lie to these cops
that my dad actually parked the car.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
The lights were on out the front, so I tried
to move.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
The car for him, and then the steering wheel locked,
so I've gone to get the keys. Anyway, I just
talked my way through it my mum and daddy. I
was lying out my ass when the front bought it, Yeah,
they bought it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
They did you get in trouble at home? Though?
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Oh yeah, I I pushed the boundaries, and mom and
dad said this really, like, Dad's this crazy thing. In
my eighteenth birthday. There's four boys in our family. But
at my birthday he said, Scott.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
We like Trav.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
He was so good at sport. Because skip Scott, I'll
come back to him birthday party and he goes to Patrick.
He was just always so like self driven and you
know he was a like a coordinator supervisor at Woolworth
at the age of fourteen.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Looks so studious. Scott. We just let him go and
we just had to trust that he would come back.
That's Murphy. I prefer that I look at you.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
But yeah, I cocked her from mom and Dad. I
kind of I pushed back pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I was a rebel. That's good.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I can't say I'm that surprised.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'm not surprised I did that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, I'm going to jump right ahead now to Marcus. Yes,
where did you guys meet Grinder?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Get out? No, we're a real true love Grinder.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I never reached out to me like, hey, you can
be up posted.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
You know what they should if you're listening.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Grinder, be honest. Was it meant for a hookup or
was it something more so.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
This is this to me is profound. My therapist said
to me, the next guy you hook up with on Grinder,
how about no sex to the fifth date?
Speaker 6 (07:21):
And I was like, well, it doesn't make sense right,
and she was like, I feel like, you know, when
you're hooking up with somebody and you shagging him a
one night stand, you've kind of gone to Mecca, like
you've gotten everything.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
From the person.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
How do you come back from that to figure out
whether you like them as an actual person after you've
had all of them?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
She said, So why don't you do it? I was like,
all right, cool, I'll give this sing a shot. Sure enough.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Marcus and I like we match right on Grinder and
he had this sassin ability to like match my energy.
Usually I choose someone up and spin out quick, smart
by our arms, go.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Around there and get this. But he had this ability
to just keep.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Going toe to toe with me, and I was like fascinate.
And then so I brought up this idea. I was like, hey,
do like listen, no sex to the fifth date, Like
are you in this? And he was like absolutely, So
He's like damn it, Well under date one.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I was like, I'm not into this guy. I'm going
to shag him. I'm going to break the rules and
I'm going to say see later.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
And I went back to his face after date one
and tried it on him and he was like, no,
I remember the rules.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
And I was like, oh god, dab it.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
I to stock out and do four more dates. By
the fifth date, I went he did something for me
and I went.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Wow, this is this is a guy I love. Wow. Yeah,
that's such a cool story. My Sistan met on Tinder
her her husband and I love that story.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And she sucked him on the first date.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It still worked out, though, but it has yet.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Modern dating has kind of like flipped You're it's very broken.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I think, Yeah, I don't know how you really get
to read a person anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Like I'm big on energy and you can suss a
motherfucker out really quick.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Smart.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
It's hard to do that just in in a world
now that is like, you know, receiving information in the
first three seconds. If you don't like what you see
or hear in three seconds, you're onto the next You're
giving someone a turn.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
We really know.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Wife for fifteen years?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Really, where was it then? How long until you guys
talked about the potential to start a family.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I think we were listen.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
It would have been a couple of years.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
In so many gay men, it was only it was
a dream, but not a tangible dream.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It was a fantasy.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
So you would you would lay there and you would
talk about, imagine if you could could have a family,
and you know, you have mates that have kids, or
you have many members. I have kids, but it never
ever ever felt like you would really be able to
have it. So you're only fantasized about one day being dad.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Did you know at that point when you were fantasizing,
did you know of any same sex couples who had
children as your benchmark?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
There was one. There was one gay couple who I
had heard of and seen and I reached out to them.
This was years later down the track when Marcus and
I thought, let's just like try this urrogacy thing. And
you know, I said to them, hey, where should we start?
Have you got any advice? And they said to me,
every journey's different. Good luck, that's it, Like it's a secret.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
It was more just Marcus and I were big believers,
and you can't be where you can't see and paying
it forward.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, and that was really disheartening to us.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
And so on the flip side, we've promised ourselves through
our journey that we were going to make sure that
everyone anyone that asked where to start or a question
would always give them the time because of broke us
when they worked.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Wow, So what when you guys are trying to figure
out if the fantasy could be real? Like are you
just googling? What are your steps?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You heard about it happening in America?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Aren't like the Motherland like they were like, which is
really fascinating because America is conservative in a lot of ways,
but then they're like the founding fathers of surregacy, and
you know, you look at places like California, it's like
it was a no brainer. Like if you when you
spoke to people or saw people on television and it
(11:34):
was like the.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Bible belt and then you've got yea.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
Fascinating It's always very fascinating, fascinating because our sons were
born in Texas to like halfway through the contract, they
brought in the no abortion law.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
So it was like really really like lots of changes
we were going through after we fantasize about being dads
We then went, I, hang on, you could possibly look
at doing here in Australia. But if you do it,
it's ultary stick, which means there's no contract, there's no
nothing that binds it. The surrogate would always be looked
at as a biological mother.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Can they change their mind along the way? Is that
is that there's no binding so they can change their mind?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Correct? Fuck?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Right, And that just didn't seem like something Marcus and
I wanted. And we and I say this from a
place of absolute privilege, we were able to go, that's
not for us. There's other routes, right, And one of
the routes we had heard of was that to go
dads could have twin children and one would be biologically
one dad's one would be biologically the others, but they
(12:37):
would share the same met donor Wow. And when I
heard it, I was like, this is black market Chinese shit.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Science is fucking crazy, to be honest, Like why I thought.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
It was like under the table, like this is like
you don't say anything and we can make it happen.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
And we go to this surrogacy conference and they're in
the States in Australia, but there were Americans and people
from Georgia that came out. Ukraine was really big at
that stage. It kind of moves around the world like where.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Like surrogacy is like movement less. But then there's some
that's shut down.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
You hear of terrible stories like in Thailand Baby Gammy,
which was a very famous case where an Australian couple
did surrogacy over there. They had twins. One was born
with severe down syndrome. They only took one twin home
with them and left one behind. Oh my god, wow,
And the surrogate isn't that's not what they signed up
(13:32):
or they signed up to cook the buttons and then
give you the bread, right, but not keep it. And
so this poor you know woman then had to become
a mother when she didn't actually want to be to
a child that had to be you know, disabilities, oh man.
And so then countries and where it wasn't really regulated
would step in and go no more of this happening,
you know, Western people or like taking advantage.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Of some of our people.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And at this point, obviously you're kind of like working through,
you know, what was possible and how it's going to happen,
are you you and markus going we definitely want kids
or are you still kind of going? Weish just see
if it's possible.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
First, we went to this conference and walked out and went, Okay,
we're going.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
To be dads.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
It was it was the first time ever we felt
seen and heard and there was tangible and it could happen.
We realized that it was an industry and a global one,
and that also we thought we were going to walk
in there and it was just going to be for
gay guys, right Rich gay guys were like, I'm gonna
We're going to become dads now. But one beautiful thing
(14:34):
we found during our journey was people that really want
to be parents that can't be or can't conceive naturally
doesn't discriminate.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
There was you know, girls.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
That had had you know, like cysts on their ovarias
once when I was sixteen.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
They couldn't four preak.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
So we found ourselves in a room of not people people,
but so many different people that all just wanted to
become parents. And there were so many different avenues we
could all take to become a mama or a dad
or a parent.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So you come out, you come out of this conference,
You've got this feeling of elation that you've decided that
we want to be dads, which is a huge decision,
and every data, every parent when they go through that,
it's a tingly weird feeling.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
What's your next step? There you go, we're going to
do this, We're doing it, we want to do it.
I can't wait what happens next.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
We find ourself a fertility clinic in the States, find
ourself a fertility clinic here in Australia that can help
facilitate getting.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Our sperm over to the States.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
We find an egg donor agency, we find a surrogacy agency,
and then a whole lot of lawyers Jesus.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot of moving pieces and the lot of stakeholders.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
I just had sex with my wife and a couple
of times do you know what, Mark, because that I
tried the bottle of red wine and throwing the leg
over many as.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Stop drinking.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Unfair, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Do you know what? It's not?
Speaker 5 (16:04):
And I appreciate you saying it, but it's not. It's
just our reality, right, And and we never once in
it played a victim and we didn't want to. We
actually still even find now and it makes me emotional
that we got what we really wanted right, and there's
so many people still that haven't taken card.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You got your fantasy.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We we we are privileged because we're able to create
a family.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, you still can't.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
It's so crazy like you meet when you meet people
like for me, I was I was really lucky in
my situation where it happened quite quickly. Yeah, and it
does happen, but then there's always complications in terms of
it could take a while. I met a guy the
other day and did a podcast with him who he
and his wife have been trying for a year and
a half, which in the scheme of things, I would say, oh,
that's ages, but there's people trying to be six years
(16:50):
five six year and it's not Yeah, it's not fair,
you know in some in some instances, and.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well you guys would know this as dads.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I'm sure I've forgotten the six years, the trauma, like
the trauma and the contracts and the amount of four
AM calls with people in Texas and the heartbreak and
the news and the know news and the meetings like
the amount of money that was spent and the wants
and the conversations.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We had that's all gone. Now it's a blur. I've
forgotten it.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
And during it, you know, we had this process that
we never complained into the circle. We could only complain
out of the circle, like to friends and family, but
they could never complain to us about the process, right,
they could complain outside of the circle, and that was
to kind of protect us. And then finally when we
had a surrygate to protect the surrogate that they didn't
hear our frustrations.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Of all those steps, was there one that was the hardest,
like the most difficult puzzle to put in?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
So let's say there's twenty steps, right you the ip's
intended parents. You are in control of nineteen of them.
You make nineteen decisions. Yeah, the first nineteen. The last
one is out of your control. The surrogate has to
choose you, okay, And it makes so much sense. They
have to, well, they put their body, their life on
(18:10):
the line, and their family on hold to create a
family for somebody else. They have to want to connect
to you, to want to bring your family dreams to life.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Which makes a lot of sense when you really learn about.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
It, because it stops people of privilege being able to
buy the right to a woman's body. Right. That's where
the regulation really comes in over in America. So the
complication for us was COVID. We were COVID had hit,
and you had heard of it's common for a pregnant
(18:44):
woman to go on bed rest, But during COVID, family
weren't allowed to go and visit you if you're in hospital.
So if a woman was put on a surroga was
put on bed rest for four or five weeks, they
were sitting in a hospital by themselves, without their family
being able to come and see them. So all of
a sudden, surrogate said, hang on, we're not going to
be surrogates during COVID. So there was this big shortage
(19:07):
and then so in that shortage, we were still hoping
someone would pick us.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So just it dragged it out.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Is there anywhere along that process where you had the
feeling of this is not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
One time it was really hard.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
We were away and we got matched with a surrogate
and we were like, oh my god, it's going to happen.
And we had the transfer date of when they were
going to the fertility clinic, and to match with one,
you know, meant a lot, you know, somebody emotionally saying
I'm going to bring your dreams to life, and you
(19:44):
know the reality we're like four years in I think
it was, and then we get a call from the
surrogacy agency the day of transfer and we're waiting to
hear like, you know, the transfer embryo transfer transfer went
really well, and we got told I hang on the
surrogate actually really can't actually be your surreygen anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And we were like, what the fuck, what do you mean,
what's happened?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
They said, we just found out the doctor whilst doing
the transfer, overheard her in conversation say that she was
on a medication, which actually she didn't disclose to us,
which it goes against you being able to be a surrogate.
And we were like, oh my god. They went so
back to the drawing board and hung up on.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Us and we were like far out god. Yeah, So
that that really during the process.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
That was when we were like this took forever to
get here, and then it just disappeared like that.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Can you describe that feeling you felt in that moment?
I looked at Marcus. I can remember it were in BALI.
I looked at Marcus and he was like, you could
tell her. He was like, well, I don't know what
to do now, And I knew exactly what I could do,
and that was put a fucking email together and tear
these motherfuckers to pieces, right, especially because when it's there
(20:57):
was a lot of contracts throughout the process, but at
the end of the day day I made it clear
to them that you're working with people that are really
vulnerable and actually you kind of have to do your
due diligence and this lies on you like you've taken
us so far down a road and then you've just
pulled it away from us and you've just said, oh, well,
it happens back to the drawing board. And so the
sensitivity around it, you know, I'm pretty optimistic.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I knew we would. I took it as a bit.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Of a sign that, hang on, there was something wrong there,
like that maybe it was a positive and a good thing,
but I saw my husband kind.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Of go, oh my god, how much longer can we
just keep doing this?
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah? So, then how was it when that took place
to when you were able to lock in the surrogate
that gave you the twins.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
And became along I would say eight nine months later,
still a long time, and you know we've got we
had something like I think thirty great ambryos sitting waiting.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
To go right like, which which is a wild number.
And we got amber and she sorry, you have your surrogate.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
She's getting the.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Surrogate is not the egg donor. Yeah, we've had an
egg donor.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Who we've got. We were able to.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Get forty one eggs from wow, split down the middle
of twenty was fertilized with Marcus's sperm, twenty one fertilized
with mine.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And then they grow them to day five.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
And then in America they tell you if it's a
great A, B or C or something, and B or
C they do up to three thousand something like a
genetic disorder testing, and they destroy any.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That are a level C.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Grade A is like won't let they say pretty much
won't lead to any you know, problems hues or miscarriages
or whatever. And so we ended up I think with
like nineteen grade A embryos. Wow, which is like good
number of US fucking basketball team, like totally unheard of.
So like we got forty one eggs and the standard
is five to six eggs.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Wow. Yeah, you like triple that.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yes, she fucking super human our egg donut and there
and I don't know if you guys have spoken to
her like a fertility clinic before that spell.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I kind of want to quickly take you to my own.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
If I'm like taking all that, we go to an
ivy f clinic here to do?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I don't know. The cum dump.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Literally literally just like wank into a giants.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
He's what you've seen in the movies. Right. They even
gave a straight porn that I had to walk out.
I was like, really, what the.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
Literally looked at my phone, right.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
And the fascinating thing is you can't use lube because
it can contaminate.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I just saw you never do anything.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And then this lady, we.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Were like, you know, we were a bit worried, you
know what if And she was with something like a
character out of a movie. Like imagine a like sixty
five year old lady sitting behind a counter in a
medical like, you know center, with a drry in her mouth.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
She didn't have one, but it was a classic receptionist
and she's thinking, all you guys are the same. Let
me tell you this. She said, I've been working in
fertility for over twenty years.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Eggs women, they are so fragile and perfect.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
She said, when you put any man's.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
Sperm under a microscope and look at it, it's that dumb.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
It always fucking swims to the side of the glass
of the pine tree dish.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Right, She's like, it's all the same, Trust that you'll
be fine.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
There picturing the person remorse as semens.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
So, yeah, we're apparently our sperm is perfect, all of us,
all of us, guys, we rarely have problems congratulation.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Actually, I was like, I bet you he's been naughty before,
and I bet it's got great sperm. Yeah, I thought
that I was picking up on it. And so then
you lock in Amber, who you said before, do you
kind of just let her do a thing? She's in
the States, do you fly over? Do you have any
contact with her while she's pregnant.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
We started what we call and we've still got the
group chat, found the group chat, and it's gone modern
family and and you know, she would tell we had
to build a relationship because she's the person that's going
to feel the first kick and deciber that to.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Give you guys a call, like, give us a call
and take us on that journeying experience with her.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Do you want those little nuggets along the way?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Of course?
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Right like you're like, we're pregnant, Oh my god, And
you wait for the sixth week, and then you wait
for the you know, the nine week and the twelve week,
and not all these scans and uptation, isn't it? And
you know, you go, hang on, but this is somebody
else's life that's helping us out. So you've got to
respect the boundary and what is the boundaries you need
to create? And we were so weirdly lucky that when
we matched with Amber at the end of the call,
(25:57):
Marcus and I you could tell we kicking each other
under the table. We're like, she's so cool, and we
got to meet her partner and her kids came in
right on this like skyte and then she goes, I
just got to see something.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
She's like, it just hit me.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I love your tiktoks so good.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
You tell me I've made it all the way.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
But it was like, we never wanted that to be
a part of why someone would want to carry out children,
And it just hit her at the end, and she,
throughout the pregnancy played like Martin Luke's podcast like for
the Boys six. Yeah, she asked us what our favorite
songs were so she could play music Like Yeah, she
(26:39):
really did a lot for us.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Ash and I were taking this journey from a place
of like a bit of naivety. But do you then
go over and say, we'll be there in the country
when you give birth.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
So there's court orders, which is phenomenal that, like America
is just unbelievable with the court orders and contracts right
that from birth, the babies are born with minor Marcus,
there's a court order ready to go as soon as
they're born that they are born with our names on
their birth certificate, not to surrogate at all because that
(27:12):
would and she has no rights at all to the babies.
That if she did, it would be it would be
an ambrolert. Literally they would be like kidnapping. Marcus and
I we had a window. I can't remember what it was,
but if we weren't there, they could become awarded to
the state.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Got to be there, Yeah, you're the parents, You got to.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
How long that window was I can't remember what it was,
but I do remember the surrogacy agency saying we can
apply for an exemption to like nless say they come
and you guys can't be here in like in like
a period of time, we would take responsibility for them
for a period of because, which she did. They were
two months early, they were two months prem goodness, how
(27:58):
many weeks they were thirty one week when they came,
which is not uncommon for twins, but it's pretty fucked
up when your two Aussie dads and you have to
go to Armarillo, Texas.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
I've been and I stayed in the best Western.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
There at Amarillo, FU day, Yeah, twenty fifteen. I do
recall you went over. You were there for quite a while.
Can you talk us through that process? They come early,
you're there, you've obviously there, got your name.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
What happens next? Uh, we're so.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Out of our depth. Yep, we're doing the best. I
say this about every parent. We're doing the best. We
come with what we've got, for sure. We have no
idea what babies are, and they're in these incubators and
where it's overload of information in a foreign place. We
become reciprocates of support from the Ronald McDonald house, who
(28:57):
were like it's here, Like we were like, oh no,
we can't stay here. It's for people that need need this,
and they were like, it's for you guys, Like it's
a comfortable bed, it's a home away from home. You
guys are going to be here for quite a while. Wow.
And you know they're like, it's right across the road
from the hospital. We were staying in the hospital next
(29:19):
to the boys. What was really sad. Actually we would
spend fifteen sixteen hours a day with them, right, and.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Most other babies.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
In that ward didn't have any parents sitting with them,
and so many were born toward like to the state.
And it was I said to Marcus one day about
this young, young baby girl. I said, don't let me
see her, because I'll apply for adoption like like I could.
And there was this terrible moment where a nurse referred
to her as a bitch. This little bitch won't shut up.
(29:51):
This is a week old baby that was born prem
whose mother gave her up for whatever reasons because you
couldn't have an abortion it's illegal, right, Yeah, and became
a ward of the state. And I was like, what
hope does this child have when even the nurses are
calling you a bitch?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
The day at a week in.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And what's so annoying as well is annoying that so
many people out there at these conferences we were desperate,
they had this fantasy with being parents. And then it's like,
how can we not connect these children that are desperately
mean parents to love them.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And so we we now look at it as it
was a master class.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
There was a moment to bond with these boys that
we didn't realize we were going to get because we thought,
hang on, we're going to get some babies, will come
home and we'll fucking keep working and we'll we'll figure
the rest out. And now, in hindsight, which is beautiful,
we got a master class in babies.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
So you've got the best people around you.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
These doctors and directors of the ward and that that
would come and see how much time Marks and I
was spending there, and they loved it. They're like, this
is so rare, and so they taught us. They brought
us in tune together, every movement, sound, everything that the
boys started to make and do, and these mini milestones
(31:06):
they have to make to graduate out of Niker is wild.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right. The amount of work this baby has to do
is fascinating and.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
There's nothing you can really do other than try and
give it your energy and love and whatever. And they
did end up graduating, but we went we can't believe
people are given a baby.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
After two days and sent home.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
And so since that we go there was a masterclass
and we knew exactly what the boys needed, when, where, why,
and how because for five weeks, fifteen hours a day,
we were supported by nurses and doctors that were telling
us everything about a baby.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Did you ever have any guild as a parent like
I always think for those nine months, you know, with
Marley and Flola, my two girls, when I'm waiting for
them to arrive in this world, and I'm like, oh
my god, i cannot wait to meet them, and it's amazing.
For me, childbirth was great.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
For me. It went better than I.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Then I get the guilt where I'm like, when the
moments where it's so hard, and I'm like, I should
be loving this because i wanted this so bad, and
now that I've got it, I'm not enjoying every second.
But for you, You've got on this journey of you know,
years and years and years and having twins, I kind
of found them how hard that would be, but in
the moments we are not enjoying it. How are you
dealing with the guilt?
Speaker 5 (32:24):
The first four months we had to we had to
feed the boys every three hours, but it took an
hour and a half to do the both of them,
So every hour and a half we had to start again,
just through the night for so it was eight twelve am,
three am, six am, nine am, twelve pm, three pm,
six pm, nine pm back to twelve am.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
It's exhausting, isn't it right?
Speaker 5 (32:47):
And I took an hour and a half to do
to took forty five minutes through one baby. Because ultra
prem babies, if a feed has to take they have
to take x amount of calories in over thirty minutes
if every minute over the thirty minutes completely counteracts.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
What they've just done because of the depletion of energy
they've used, So there's this pressure on you to do.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
That, and then you have to berth them a certain
way for an x amount of time because they're not
developed yet right to be able to do what a
term baby can do, so it takes.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Far more time.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
So it was an hour and a half to do
both boys, and then an hour and a half lady
had to start again. And there were these nights no
lie and it was three am and it was my
gig and I was like cooked, like beyond and it was.
It sounds so cliche and weird, right, but there was
(33:39):
this star that I could see every single night looking
out the window, and I would think to myself, I'm
so not alone, and I've got so many people around us,
like we're privileged, We've got good family and friends and
a network. And I would look at this start and
I was like, there's parents, probably mothers, doing this by themselves.
And I had everything at my disposal, and that that
(34:04):
was like what got me through that. I was like,
I'm actually really lucky. We got everything we wanted. It's hard,
it's frustrating, this is fucking tiring as fuck, right, But
I was like, there's there's someone else out here doing
a feed by themselves with no support right now that
might be looking at that star and there was just
starting to know a connection I had with it.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
And You're right, there's so many people out there that
don't have the support and the network. As dads and
as parents, we sometimes we take those moments for granted.
That hang on a minute, like, people are really battling
to have what I have and it's really hard to
see that sometimes, and we are just doing the.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Best we can with what we've got.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
I truly believe it, right, And and that just told
me I wasn't alone, right, And it can feel so lonely.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You guys know this as parents.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Every parent does right, like the pros and cons and
the pressure can put on the relationship and yourself and
but you know, it's a moment in time and we're
you're not alone in it, even though you might feel it.
So find that one thing that might connect you to
somebody else when when you really feel alone.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And when you look at the type of dad that
you are now, are the twins they ate nine months?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Eighteen months?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Oh shit?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Are you the type of dad now that when you
were fantasizing about being a parent, Do they match up?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:26):
I love therapy right, And my therapist one day I
said to her, is this.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The same one that said don't fuck for five dates?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
No different, You've got to evolve in.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
I said, you know, I have this idea of the
type of dad I want to be, but I'm scared
of the dad I know I'm going to be, which
is a helicopter parent. I'll find it hard to share
them or let them go right to some people. She said, well, like,
you have to work on the type of person you
want to be. You have to actually do the work
to be the parent you want to be. It's not
(36:00):
just going to come to you. I had to very
early actively make myself uncomfortable as a dad by allowing
my boys to be with other people who do the
things that I thought I was a bit frightened of.
And now I'm like, this is a call less little
fucking cats, Like we hang out, like they were eating
(36:21):
ants on the floor the other day with me, and
I was like it was just like there's these moments
of like, oh, I got a bird at the park,
and like the three of us are fascinated together, and
I'm like, this was it.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
This is exactly everything I wanted it. And it's so
profound sometimes that you don't.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Realize it till you get in the car after the
session You're like Holy. So there's times like for me
where I've always sort of felt somewhat isolated as a
child growing up, and then now it's sort of into
my I feel like I always have to be around people.
And my therapist said, you've got a little best friend. Now,
do you not understand that?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, okay, but whatever you say, they're like, fuck, yeah, yeah,
I'm in there or die.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I remember that sentence and I get in the car
and I was like, I fucking cried dude, because I
was like, I can't believe I took that for granted
and I didn't know it was right there.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I promised Bobby Beckett vocally the other day, promised him.
I'm like, as your dad, I said, as your dad,
I promise you, mate.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I'm never going to tell you you're too much.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Because he has this zest of energy and life you
just see already, which is just the excitement he has
of the world around him. He's just going to run
headfirst into the world with it. And whereas you know,
over to Oliver, he is the most considered human being
I've ever come across as well. But my whole life,
(37:41):
having full energy, was always told shut up, you too much,
be quiet, just always.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Put in this corner. And there was this moment the
other day.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I looked at Bobby Becker and I went, my job,
as your dad is to one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Make sure like I let you really be the best
version of you. I'm never going to.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Say you too much.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I love that. I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
We were speaking in the car driving here about the
fact that for yourself, two loving dads, obviously no mum
in the picture because Amber doesn't play that role. Is
that something that plays on your mind as a dad?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Now, it's funny you say that I had this. I'm
gonna fucking cry again. I don't think I was going to.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Two people cry on your podcast. Oh good, she.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Keeps trying to get me to cry, but I've just
wired differently.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
But getting back to.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
The two girls, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, and I had this moment.
I don't know if you guys have come across her.
What's her name, fucking miss something. She's American, Miss Rachel.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
God do tell.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
I had this moment and it was caught on It
was just organic and natural. And the boys, they haven't
really liked television or connected to anything, just flicking and
I'm scrolling and they just go super silent and they
are like hooked to Miss Rachel. She's never come on before,
but they have just stopped in sync and they're listening
(39:10):
to it right, and I was like, oh my god,
this is fascinating. We're down a show to fucking like
that I can use to distract them if I need it,
right And next second she starts going, okay, now let's
say I.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Love you mama.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
I love you mama, and I'm going, oh my fucking god.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I'm like I wasn't ready for this.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
And I'm looking at the boys and they're like they
can pick up everything really quick.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Some one starts saying mummy, mummy, and I'm like, oh
my god. Anyway, I'm like, look that girl has a
mom bright like, oh, how cool? Right.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
I tried to just throw it off and anyway, I
was like, get this bitch off my television.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I'm just gonna fuck sit up. I wasna read out
of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
And then I put the boys in the bath later
on and I start crying. I bore my eyes out
right because I'm like, I have a really good mom,
and I realized that my boys are never going to
have a mom. And then I've felt guilty that have
brought kids into this world that aren't ever going to
have a mom. They've got two really great dads. But
they're never going to experience what I did in a mum.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
And I shared that.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
As well as I quickly fucking kicked myself up the
ass and picked myself up and I kept moving.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
And what I.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Got was this beautiful and I never looked for validation
from others, but I share parts of myself and people
were like I had. I had one mom and one
dad and they were both disappointments.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Your kids don't just have one great dad.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
They've got two incredible dads, like far more than what
I ever had. And there was this beautiful, beautiful sense
of like I think respect I got or or people
held up a mirror.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
To me in that moment. I was like, alright, cool,
pick yourself up. They're going to be fine.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
But you know, I think it comes from and I
come from a loving family that I went, oh my god,
my boys aren't I'm going to miss out on something
I loved having, which.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Is a good mum.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
These boys have two dads that absolutely loved them so much.
And you said something before where you said, I'm never
ever going to tell you that you're too much.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I want you to be you.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
And that is something that no one else other than
two loving parents can give them, and congratulations for that,
because sitting with you for forty five minutes, you can
tell how fucking passionate you are about these two humans
that you've.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They are so lucky you've spent so long to.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Bring into the world.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
And then when they grow up and they're like, I'm
going to have the coolest fucking dads in the world.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
I just can't wait. Like Luke tells this great story.
Our egg donor is six or six. She plays volleyball
for America and is an Ivy League scholar.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
The drug did you get them into a sports school immediately?
So listen, They're going to be giants. They already are, right.
Speaker 5 (41:48):
I just have this nightmare before they were born that
I would carry them as babies under both arms and
their legs were dragged. The boys are eighty months they're
already like eighty two centimeters tall. One's premier, and they're
already like they're going to be fucking monsters. And Luke
says this great story to somebody the other week. He goes,
I just fast forward and in like fifteen years time,
(42:11):
twenty years time, like they'll be playing professional basketball or something, right,
and then the other people on the team will be like,
who is that little lady screaming on the sidelines and.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Looks like there's going to be these two giant kids
are going to be like, that's how dad on the sidelines.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
They're just going to be the proudest, like biggest giants
on the fucking team.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Two very lucky kids. Yeah, we're lucky parents. Do con
has one more question?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Conscious that we're going to get some vanilla ice creams
and bolonnais into you. So one last question. When the
boys are grown up and they've moved out of home,
they're no longer living under your roof, what is the
one thing you want them to remember about the house
they grew up in.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
My God, I think that they were allowed.
Speaker 5 (43:01):
They were allowed, and that's means allowed to be them
their true self, That they were in a place that
was of no judgment and nothing but support. And I
came from that home, but in a different in a
different generation, a different time that where generational and or
(43:22):
like societal norms really greatly affected you, right, And so
Minor Marux's yeah, like dream and promise is that they're
never going to carry the burden of what society, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
What mold they should have fit into.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, not in our house, Like that doesn't exist in
our house.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
So I want them to know that they can always,
always truly one be themselves and not be affected by
whatever anyone else around them thinks.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
That's an amazing, amazing answer, And thank you so much.
I know we've been trying to get you on for
a long time.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Realizing perfect moment and I'm really grateful for this time too.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Thank you so much much. Been a bloody joy. Thanks fellas.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
I often complaining fash about parenting. When I say often,
I mean daily. I was gonna say, howie, but it
is really nice to speak to someone else, another parent,
to put into perspective how lucky we are considering we
didn't have to go through six years of trying, of
going through a minefield to try and just be a
(44:27):
To try and just be a parent.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Is literally a rollercoaster. Like the patients on both of them.
There are so many people that probably just will give
up just because they lose hope. But it just goes
to show if you're persistent enough and you really want that,
then you know it can come true. So amazing chat.
There's laughs, people cried, not me this.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Time not yet. Yeah, do I dare say? Do I
dare say? One of my favorite episodes.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Oh yeah, it was great chat. It was so like
organic and like funny and there's some laughs.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Some li I liked him before, I love him now.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And his brother is also a very good fellow.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Let's not forget about Luke Luke. If I have kids,
get on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a little review
five stars, send us to a friend, or you can
join us where on socials.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Mat on social media at two Doting Dads on Instagram, TikTok.
There is also YouTube not for these eves for the
Wednesday episodes. Ignore me, I'm confusing you, but leave a review.
There we go perfect.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
See how bye bye.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight onland
the people's today
Mister Wicks, it's Johnson. You know you're in for a
wild ride when you have white Sassie Scott on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
He's a ball of energy. He's also very funny.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Do you know what I like most about him? There's
people we see online and then you meet them in
person and you think, oh, you're really different to how
you were online.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
He is.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
What you see on social media is exactly what he's
like in person.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
He's loud, hilarious, but he's also very empathetic man.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Isn't he. Yes, yeah, he's got a hard out of shell,
but once you break that down, he's all gooey inside.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Well said.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
You may have seen him on social media with his
brother Luke. They often go very viral, a bit trump asque,
annoy the ship out of each other, to put it simply.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
But we're not here to talk about comical sibling rivalry,
are we, Matt.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
No.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Scott has been on a six year journey to become
a father with his husband Mark. This has quite literally
taken them on a roller coaster of emotion.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Yes, Scott, Mark is. They decided to take the surrogacy route,
which meant a great deal of time and money in
pursuit of one goal to become parents.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Thankfully they got their wish, but it was by no
means easy.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Let's get into it. Welcome back to three doting dads.
I am Maddie Jay, I'm Ash and I'm Sazzy Scott.
(01:36):
And this is a podcast all about parenting. It is
the good, it is the bad and the relatable. And
if you come for advice.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
Yes you remember, we don't do it. We don't do it.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
Do you know what?
Speaker 1 (01:46):
I got distracted by the house here where Okay, we're
not in our normal recording studio and the acoustics are great.
We're in the snow in East Genderbne and the house
is creaking.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
I have no idea where we are. I have to
look at a map before Google Maps. There's no shame
in the world. I have no idea.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
How did you get from Canberra to here?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
God? Driven? Hell, you got driven last night? You did
the first hour.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
I was like I needed a little story and I
was like, yeah, cool, And then isn't it weird? Were
like I was like, shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I talked to pass the time.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
I just need to I just need to continue to
talk all the time.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Or I get bored or destructive? What would you prefer?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Sorry, you're right. So this is a fun little situation
where we are all on a little trip away thanks
to Red Bull. We're at Perisher East Gindy.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
At the moment it is about to say thread both.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Snow, it's all the same. It's all the same.
Speaker 3 (02:48):
What's that? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (02:49):
Thank you, thank you? And we actually we've been trying
to get you for a little while. Your motherfucker.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Yeah again, you have no choice.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
As soon as Luke was like, hey, why don't you
try to go more like, yeah, damning do it.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I'm going to watch my clock because we have we
have it forty minutes. We have a dinner booking. It's
for Italian. The last thing I want to do is
hold you back from Italian?
Speaker 3 (03:10):
What are you at Italian? What's your What I'm really into?
Speaker 1 (03:13):
At the moment, people are like when the are they
talking about?
Speaker 3 (03:15):
Kids?
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Later?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Spaghetti and berry? Oh? What is that?
Speaker 1 (03:22):
I'm glad you asked. It's like it's bougie. I know
I'm not. I'm a man of the people. Anyway.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
It's a lobster.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
It's like a seafood lobs yess, like a seafood prawn.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Okay, yeah, I'm spaghetti bolin AI's with vanilla ice cream
afterwards all the time, no matter where I am in
the world.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
What do you what do you mean? Are you twelve?
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (03:46):
That's not what my kids.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
He likes the sweet tree getting away from like family.
You guys, WO know this.
Speaker 5 (03:51):
It's like I used to when I traveled for work,
even now for work, and people are like, come out
after the gig or whatever. I'm like, I've got something
really important get to I go back to the hotel room.
I just sit in the bed spaghetti boll and as
with vanilla ice cream.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
How long have you been sober for now? I think
I'm five years in Teguary. I think last time I
asked you that was two years ago. So three. Yeah, wow,
very much. We usually start this off.
Speaker 4 (04:18):
We're finding a little bit about you as a child
and god, just a quick question.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
My only picture of Scott is when you had those
blonde tips at the front. I don't know how old
you were iconic nineteen then.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Nah, I was in no, I was in high school.
Speaker 5 (04:37):
I was hanging around a lot of dodgy ass guys,
really really funny area.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
This question is going to be perfect. Then what's the
most trouble you remember getting in as a child. Listen,
there's lots anything.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
Spring to mind.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Yeah, stealing cars? Nice? Love that, Yes, don't condone it anymore.
Just one time stealing.
Speaker 5 (05:02):
One funny time was when I stole them and Dad's
car and then it was a manual and I had
my mates in the back and we had to jump
start it because the steering wheel locked. I know how
to unlock it, and it got caught out in the
middle of the road. So anyway, we had to push
it all the way back down the road. Cops came
and got us out of the car. I talked this
(05:24):
absolute like smack and got us out of it.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I bet you did.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
I was able to hustle and lie to these cops
that my dad actually parked the car.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
The lights were on out the front, so I tried
to move.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
The car for him, and then the steering wheel locked,
so I've gone to get the keys. Anyway, I just
talked my way through it my mum and daddy. I
was lying out my ass when the front bought it, Yeah,
they bought it.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
They did you get in trouble at home? Though?
Speaker 5 (05:57):
Oh yeah, I I pushed the boundaries, and mom and
dad said this really, like, Dad's this crazy thing. In
my eighteenth birthday. There's four boys in our family. But
at my birthday he said, Scott.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
We like Trav.
Speaker 5 (06:10):
He was so good at sport. Because skip Scott, I'll
come back to him birthday party and he goes to Patrick.
He was just always so like self driven and you
know he was a like a coordinator supervisor at Woolworth
at the age of fourteen.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
Looks so studious. Scott. We just let him go and
we just had to trust that he would come back.
That's Murphy. I prefer that I look at you.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
But yeah, I cocked her from mom and Dad. I
kind of I pushed back pretty hard.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
I was a rebel. That's good.
Speaker 1 (06:44):
I can't say I'm that surprised.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
I'm not surprised I did that.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, I'm going to jump right ahead now to Marcus. Yes,
where did you guys meet Grinder?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Get out? No, we're a real true love Grinder.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I never reached out to me like, hey, you can
be up posted.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
You know what they should if you're listening.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Grinder, be honest. Was it meant for a hookup or
was it something more so.
Speaker 5 (07:11):
This is this to me is profound. My therapist said
to me, the next guy you hook up with on Grinder,
how about no sex to the fifth date?
Speaker 6 (07:21):
And I was like, well, it doesn't make sense right,
and she was like, I feel like, you know, when
you're hooking up with somebody and you shagging him a
one night stand, you've kind of gone to Mecca, like
you've gotten everything.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
From the person.
Speaker 5 (07:36):
How do you come back from that to figure out
whether you like them as an actual person after you've
had all of them?
Speaker 3 (07:41):
She said, So why don't you do it? I was like,
all right, cool, I'll give this sing a shot. Sure enough.
Speaker 5 (07:47):
Marcus and I like we match right on Grinder and
he had this sassin ability to like match my energy.
Usually I choose someone up and spin out quick, smart
by our arms, go.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Around there and get this. But he had this ability
to just keep.
Speaker 5 (08:07):
Going toe to toe with me, and I was like fascinate.
And then so I brought up this idea. I was like, hey,
do like listen, no sex to the fifth date, Like
are you in this? And he was like absolutely, So
He's like damn it, Well under date one.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
I was like, I'm not into this guy. I'm going
to shag him. I'm going to break the rules and
I'm going to say see later.
Speaker 5 (08:28):
And I went back to his face after date one
and tried it on him and he was like, no,
I remember the rules.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
And I was like, oh god, dab it.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
I to stock out and do four more dates. By
the fifth date, I went he did something for me
and I went.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Wow, this is this is a guy I love. Wow. Yeah,
that's such a cool story. My Sistan met on Tinder
her her husband and I love that story.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
And she sucked him on the first date.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
It still worked out, though, but it has yet.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Modern dating has kind of like flipped You're it's very broken.
Speaker 5 (08:58):
I think, Yeah, I don't know how you really get
to read a person anymore.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Yeah, yeah, right.
Speaker 5 (09:05):
Like I'm big on energy and you can suss a
motherfucker out really quick.
Speaker 3 (09:09):
Smart.
Speaker 5 (09:09):
It's hard to do that just in in a world
now that is like, you know, receiving information in the
first three seconds. If you don't like what you see
or hear in three seconds, you're onto the next You're
giving someone a turn.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
We really know.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
Wife for fifteen years?
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Really, where was it then? How long until you guys
talked about the potential to start a family.
Speaker 5 (09:37):
I think we were listen.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
It would have been a couple of years.
Speaker 5 (09:42):
In so many gay men, it was only it was
a dream, but not a tangible dream.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
It was a fantasy.
Speaker 5 (09:52):
So you would you would lay there and you would
talk about, imagine if you could could have a family,
and you know, you have mates that have kids, or
you have many members. I have kids, but it never
ever ever felt like you would really be able to
have it. So you're only fantasized about one day being dad.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
Did you know at that point when you were fantasizing,
did you know of any same sex couples who had
children as your benchmark?
Speaker 5 (10:14):
There was one. There was one gay couple who I
had heard of and seen and I reached out to them.
This was years later down the track when Marcus and
I thought, let's just like try this urrogacy thing. And
you know, I said to them, hey, where should we start?
Have you got any advice? And they said to me,
every journey's different. Good luck, that's it, Like it's a secret.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
It was more just Marcus and I were big believers,
and you can't be where you can't see and paying
it forward.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Yeah, and that was really disheartening to us.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
And so on the flip side, we've promised ourselves through
our journey that we were going to make sure that
everyone anyone that asked where to start or a question
would always give them the time because of broke us
when they worked.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Wow, So what when you guys are trying to figure
out if the fantasy could be real? Like are you
just googling? What are your steps?
Speaker 3 (11:10):
You heard about it happening in America?
Speaker 5 (11:13):
Aren't like the Motherland like they were like, which is
really fascinating because America is conservative in a lot of ways,
but then they're like the founding fathers of surregacy, and
you know, you look at places like California, it's like
it was a no brainer. Like if you when you
spoke to people or saw people on television and it
(11:34):
was like the.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Bible belt and then you've got yea.
Speaker 7 (11:37):
Fascinating It's always very fascinating, fascinating because our sons were
born in Texas to like halfway through the contract, they
brought in the no abortion law.
Speaker 5 (11:48):
So it was like really really like lots of changes
we were going through after we fantasize about being dads
We then went, I, hang on, you could possibly look
at doing here in Australia. But if you do it,
it's ultary stick, which means there's no contract, there's no
nothing that binds it. The surrogate would always be looked
at as a biological mother.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Can they change their mind along the way? Is that
is that there's no binding so they can change their mind?
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Correct? Fuck?
Speaker 1 (12:14):
Okay?
Speaker 5 (12:16):
Right, And that just didn't seem like something Marcus and
I wanted. And we and I say this from a
place of absolute privilege, we were able to go, that's
not for us. There's other routes, right, And one of
the routes we had heard of was that to go
dads could have twin children and one would be biologically
one dad's one would be biologically the others, but they
(12:37):
would share the same met donor Wow. And when I
heard it, I was like, this is black market Chinese shit.
Speaker 4 (12:42):
Science is fucking crazy, to be honest, Like why I thought.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
It was like under the table, like this is like
you don't say anything and we can make it happen.
Speaker 3 (12:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (12:52):
And we go to this surrogacy conference and they're in
the States in Australia, but there were Americans and people
from Georgia that came out. Ukraine was really big at
that stage. It kind of moves around the world like where.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Like surrogacy is like movement less. But then there's some
that's shut down.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
You hear of terrible stories like in Thailand Baby Gammy,
which was a very famous case where an Australian couple
did surrogacy over there. They had twins. One was born
with severe down syndrome. They only took one twin home
with them and left one behind. Oh my god, wow,
And the surrogate isn't that's not what they signed up
(13:32):
or they signed up to cook the buttons and then
give you the bread, right, but not keep it. And
so this poor you know woman then had to become
a mother when she didn't actually want to be to
a child that had to be you know, disabilities, oh man.
And so then countries and where it wasn't really regulated
would step in and go no more of this happening,
you know, Western people or like taking advantage.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Of some of our people.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
And at this point, obviously you're kind of like working through,
you know, what was possible and how it's going to happen,
are you you and markus going we definitely want kids
or are you still kind of going? Weish just see
if it's possible.
Speaker 5 (14:07):
First, we went to this conference and walked out and went, Okay,
we're going.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
To be dads.
Speaker 5 (14:12):
It was it was the first time ever we felt
seen and heard and there was tangible and it could happen.
We realized that it was an industry and a global one,
and that also we thought we were going to walk
in there and it was just going to be for
gay guys, right Rich gay guys were like, I'm gonna
We're going to become dads now. But one beautiful thing
(14:34):
we found during our journey was people that really want
to be parents that can't be or can't conceive naturally
doesn't discriminate.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
There was you know, girls.
Speaker 5 (14:44):
That had had you know, like cysts on their ovarias
once when I was sixteen.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
They couldn't four preak.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
So we found ourselves in a room of not people people,
but so many different people that all just wanted to
become parents. And there were so many different avenues we
could all take to become a mama or a dad
or a parent.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
So you come out, you come out of this conference,
You've got this feeling of elation that you've decided that
we want to be dads, which is a huge decision,
and every data, every parent when they go through that,
it's a tingly weird feeling.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
What's your next step? There you go, we're going to
do this, We're doing it, we want to do it.
I can't wait what happens next.
Speaker 5 (15:22):
We find ourself a fertility clinic in the States, find
ourself a fertility clinic here in Australia that can help
facilitate getting.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Our sperm over to the States.
Speaker 5 (15:34):
We find an egg donor agency, we find a surrogacy agency,
and then a whole lot of lawyers Jesus.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
A lot of moving pieces and the lot of stakeholders.
Speaker 5 (15:45):
I just had sex with my wife and a couple
of times do you know what, Mark, because that I
tried the bottle of red wine and throwing the leg
over many as.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Stop drinking.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
Unfair, isn't it?
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Do you know what? It's not?
Speaker 5 (16:04):
And I appreciate you saying it, but it's not. It's
just our reality, right, And and we never once in
it played a victim and we didn't want to. We
actually still even find now and it makes me emotional
that we got what we really wanted right, and there's
so many people still that haven't taken card.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
You got your fantasy.
Speaker 5 (16:24):
We we we are privileged because we're able to create
a family.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, you still can't.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
It's so crazy like you meet when you meet people
like for me, I was I was really lucky in
my situation where it happened quite quickly. Yeah, and it
does happen, but then there's always complications in terms of
it could take a while. I met a guy the
other day and did a podcast with him who he
and his wife have been trying for a year and
a half, which in the scheme of things, I would say, oh,
that's ages, but there's people trying to be six years
(16:50):
five six year and it's not Yeah, it's not fair,
you know in some in some instances, and.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
Well you guys would know this as dads.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
I'm sure I've forgotten the six years, the trauma, like
the trauma and the contracts and the amount of four
AM calls with people in Texas and the heartbreak and
the news and the know news and the meetings like
the amount of money that was spent and the wants
and the conversations.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
We had that's all gone. Now it's a blur. I've
forgotten it.
Speaker 5 (17:23):
And during it, you know, we had this process that
we never complained into the circle. We could only complain
out of the circle, like to friends and family, but
they could never complain to us about the process, right,
they could complain outside of the circle, and that was
to kind of protect us. And then finally when we
had a surrygate to protect the surrogate that they didn't
hear our frustrations.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Of all those steps, was there one that was the hardest,
like the most difficult puzzle to put in?
Speaker 5 (17:48):
So let's say there's twenty steps, right you the ip's
intended parents. You are in control of nineteen of them.
You make nineteen decisions. Yeah, the first nineteen. The last
one is out of your control. The surrogate has to
choose you, okay, And it makes so much sense. They
have to, well, they put their body, their life on
(18:10):
the line, and their family on hold to create a
family for somebody else. They have to want to connect
to you, to want to bring your family dreams to life.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Which makes a lot of sense when you really learn about.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
It, because it stops people of privilege being able to
buy the right to a woman's body. Right. That's where
the regulation really comes in over in America. So the
complication for us was COVID. We were COVID had hit,
and you had heard of it's common for a pregnant
(18:44):
woman to go on bed rest, But during COVID, family
weren't allowed to go and visit you if you're in hospital.
So if a woman was put on a surroga was
put on bed rest for four or five weeks, they
were sitting in a hospital by themselves, without their family
being able to come and see them. So all of
a sudden, surrogate said, hang on, we're not going to
be surrogates during COVID. So there was this big shortage
(19:07):
and then so in that shortage, we were still hoping
someone would pick us.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
So just it dragged it out.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
Is there anywhere along that process where you had the
feeling of this is not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
One time it was really hard.
Speaker 5 (19:23):
We were away and we got matched with a surrogate
and we were like, oh my god, it's going to happen.
And we had the transfer date of when they were
going to the fertility clinic, and to match with one,
you know, meant a lot, you know, somebody emotionally saying
I'm going to bring your dreams to life, and you
(19:44):
know the reality we're like four years in I think
it was, and then we get a call from the
surrogacy agency the day of transfer and we're waiting to
hear like, you know, the transfer embryo transfer transfer went
really well, and we got told I hang on the
surrogate actually really can't actually be your surreygen anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
And we were like, what the fuck, what do you mean,
what's happened?
Speaker 5 (20:04):
They said, we just found out the doctor whilst doing
the transfer, overheard her in conversation say that she was
on a medication, which actually she didn't disclose to us,
which it goes against you being able to be a surrogate.
And we were like, oh my god. They went so
back to the drawing board and hung up on.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Us and we were like far out god. Yeah, So
that that really during the process.
Speaker 5 (20:29):
That was when we were like this took forever to
get here, and then it just disappeared like that.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
Can you describe that feeling you felt in that moment?
I looked at Marcus. I can remember it were in BALI.
I looked at Marcus and he was like, you could
tell her. He was like, well, I don't know what
to do now, And I knew exactly what I could do,
and that was put a fucking email together and tear
these motherfuckers to pieces, right, especially because when it's there
(20:57):
was a lot of contracts throughout the process, but at
the end of the day day I made it clear
to them that you're working with people that are really
vulnerable and actually you kind of have to do your
due diligence and this lies on you like you've taken
us so far down a road and then you've just
pulled it away from us and you've just said, oh, well,
it happens back to the drawing board. And so the
sensitivity around it, you know, I'm pretty optimistic.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
I knew we would. I took it as a bit.
Speaker 5 (21:22):
Of a sign that, hang on, there was something wrong there,
like that maybe it was a positive and a good thing,
but I saw my husband kind.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Of go, oh my god, how much longer can we
just keep doing this?
Speaker 1 (21:35):
Yeah? So, then how was it when that took place
to when you were able to lock in the surrogate
that gave you the twins.
Speaker 5 (21:42):
And became along I would say eight nine months later,
still a long time, and you know we've got we
had something like I think thirty great ambryos sitting waiting.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
To go right like, which which is a wild number.
And we got amber and she sorry, you have your surrogate.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
She's getting the.
Speaker 5 (22:08):
Surrogate is not the egg donor. Yeah, we've had an
egg donor.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Who we've got. We were able to.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
Get forty one eggs from wow, split down the middle
of twenty was fertilized with Marcus's sperm, twenty one fertilized
with mine.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
And then they grow them to day five.
Speaker 5 (22:25):
And then in America they tell you if it's a
great A, B or C or something, and B or
C they do up to three thousand something like a
genetic disorder testing, and they destroy any.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
That are a level C.
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Grade A is like won't let they say pretty much
won't lead to any you know, problems hues or miscarriages
or whatever. And so we ended up I think with
like nineteen grade A embryos. Wow, which is like good
number of US fucking basketball team, like totally unheard of.
So like we got forty one eggs and the standard
is five to six eggs.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Wow. Yeah, you like triple that.
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yes, she fucking super human our egg donut and there
and I don't know if you guys have spoken to
her like a fertility clinic before that spell.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I kind of want to quickly take you to my own.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
If I'm like taking all that, we go to an
ivy f clinic here to do?
Speaker 3 (23:24):
I don't know. The cum dump.
Speaker 5 (23:27):
Literally literally just like wank into a giants.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
He's what you've seen in the movies. Right. They even
gave a straight porn that I had to walk out.
I was like, really, what the.
Speaker 6 (23:41):
Literally looked at my phone, right.
Speaker 5 (23:45):
And the fascinating thing is you can't use lube because
it can contaminate.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I just saw you never do anything.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
And then this lady, we.
Speaker 5 (23:55):
Were like, you know, we were a bit worried, you
know what if And she was with something like a
character out of a movie. Like imagine a like sixty
five year old lady sitting behind a counter in a
medical like, you know center, with a drry in her mouth.
Speaker 3 (24:08):
She didn't have one, but it was a classic receptionist
and she's thinking, all you guys are the same. Let
me tell you this. She said, I've been working in
fertility for over twenty years.
Speaker 5 (24:18):
Eggs women, they are so fragile and perfect.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
She said, when you put any man's.
Speaker 5 (24:26):
Sperm under a microscope and look at it, it's that dumb.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
It always fucking swims to the side of the glass
of the pine tree dish.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
Right, She's like, it's all the same, Trust that you'll
be fine.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
There picturing the person remorse as semens.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
So, yeah, we're apparently our sperm is perfect, all of us,
all of us, guys, we rarely have problems congratulation.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
Actually, I was like, I bet you he's been naughty before,
and I bet it's got great sperm. Yeah, I thought
that I was picking up on it. And so then
you lock in Amber, who you said before, do you
kind of just let her do a thing? She's in
the States, do you fly over? Do you have any
contact with her while she's pregnant.
Speaker 5 (25:13):
We started what we call and we've still got the
group chat, found the group chat, and it's gone modern
family and and you know, she would tell we had
to build a relationship because she's the person that's going
to feel the first kick and deciber that to.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Give you guys a call, like, give us a call
and take us on that journeying experience with her.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
Do you want those little nuggets along the way?
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Of course?
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Right like you're like, we're pregnant, Oh my god, And
you wait for the sixth week, and then you wait
for the you know, the nine week and the twelve week,
and not all these scans and uptation, isn't it? And
you know, you go, hang on, but this is somebody
else's life that's helping us out. So you've got to
respect the boundary and what is the boundaries you need
to create? And we were so weirdly lucky that when
we matched with Amber at the end of the call,
(25:57):
Marcus and I you could tell we kicking each other
under the table. We're like, she's so cool, and we
got to meet her partner and her kids came in
right on this like skyte and then she goes, I
just got to see something.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
She's like, it just hit me.
Speaker 5 (26:09):
I love your tiktoks so good.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
You tell me I've made it all the way.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
That's amazing.
Speaker 5 (26:18):
But it was like, we never wanted that to be
a part of why someone would want to carry out children,
And it just hit her at the end, and she,
throughout the pregnancy played like Martin Luke's podcast like for
the Boys six. Yeah, she asked us what our favorite
songs were so she could play music Like Yeah, she
(26:39):
really did a lot for us.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
Ash and I were taking this journey from a place
of like a bit of naivety. But do you then
go over and say, we'll be there in the country
when you give birth.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
So there's court orders, which is phenomenal that, like America
is just unbelievable with the court orders and contracts right
that from birth, the babies are born with minor Marcus,
there's a court order ready to go as soon as
they're born that they are born with our names on
their birth certificate, not to surrogate at all because that
(27:12):
would and she has no rights at all to the babies.
That if she did, it would be it would be
an ambrolert. Literally they would be like kidnapping. Marcus and
I we had a window. I can't remember what it was,
but if we weren't there, they could become awarded to
the state.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Got to be there, Yeah, you're the parents, You got to.
Speaker 5 (27:36):
How long that window was I can't remember what it was,
but I do remember the surrogacy agency saying we can
apply for an exemption to like nless say they come
and you guys can't be here in like in like
a period of time, we would take responsibility for them
for a period of because, which she did. They were
two months early, they were two months prem goodness, how
(27:58):
many weeks they were thirty one week when they came,
which is not uncommon for twins, but it's pretty fucked
up when your two Aussie dads and you have to
go to Armarillo, Texas.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
I've been and I stayed in the best Western.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
There at Amarillo, FU day, Yeah, twenty fifteen. I do
recall you went over. You were there for quite a while.
Can you talk us through that process? They come early,
you're there, you've obviously there, got your name.
Speaker 3 (28:28):
What happens next? Uh, we're so.
Speaker 5 (28:34):
Out of our depth. Yep, we're doing the best. I
say this about every parent. We're doing the best. We
come with what we've got, for sure. We have no
idea what babies are, and they're in these incubators and
where it's overload of information in a foreign place. We
become reciprocates of support from the Ronald McDonald house, who
(28:57):
were like it's here, Like we were like, oh no,
we can't stay here. It's for people that need need this,
and they were like, it's for you guys, Like it's
a comfortable bed, it's a home away from home. You
guys are going to be here for quite a while. Wow.
And you know they're like, it's right across the road
from the hospital. We were staying in the hospital next
(29:19):
to the boys. What was really sad. Actually we would
spend fifteen sixteen hours a day with them, right, and.
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Most other babies.
Speaker 5 (29:29):
In that ward didn't have any parents sitting with them,
and so many were born toward like to the state.
And it was I said to Marcus one day about
this young, young baby girl. I said, don't let me
see her, because I'll apply for adoption like like I could.
And there was this terrible moment where a nurse referred
to her as a bitch. This little bitch won't shut up.
(29:51):
This is a week old baby that was born prem
whose mother gave her up for whatever reasons because you
couldn't have an abortion it's illegal, right, Yeah, and became
a ward of the state. And I was like, what
hope does this child have when even the nurses are
calling you a bitch?
Speaker 3 (30:09):
The day at a week in.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
And what's so annoying as well is annoying that so
many people out there at these conferences we were desperate,
they had this fantasy with being parents. And then it's like,
how can we not connect these children that are desperately
mean parents to love them.
Speaker 3 (30:23):
And so we we now look at it as it
was a master class.
Speaker 5 (30:28):
There was a moment to bond with these boys that
we didn't realize we were going to get because we thought,
hang on, we're going to get some babies, will come
home and we'll fucking keep working and we'll we'll figure
the rest out. And now, in hindsight, which is beautiful,
we got a master class in babies.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
So you've got the best people around you.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
These doctors and directors of the ward and that that
would come and see how much time Marks and I
was spending there, and they loved it. They're like, this
is so rare, and so they taught us. They brought
us in tune together, every movement, sound, everything that the
boys started to make and do, and these mini milestones
(31:06):
they have to make to graduate out of Niker is wild.
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Right. The amount of work this baby has to do
is fascinating and.
Speaker 5 (31:14):
There's nothing you can really do other than try and
give it your energy and love and whatever. And they
did end up graduating, but we went we can't believe
people are given a baby.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
After two days and sent home.
Speaker 5 (31:28):
And so since that we go there was a masterclass
and we knew exactly what the boys needed, when, where, why,
and how because for five weeks, fifteen hours a day,
we were supported by nurses and doctors that were telling
us everything about a baby.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
That's amazing.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Did you ever have any guild as a parent like
I always think for those nine months, you know, with
Marley and Flola, my two girls, when I'm waiting for
them to arrive in this world, and I'm like, oh
my god, i cannot wait to meet them, and it's amazing.
For me, childbirth was great.
Speaker 3 (31:58):
For me. It went better than I.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Then I get the guilt where I'm like, when the
moments where it's so hard, and I'm like, I should
be loving this because i wanted this so bad, and
now that I've got it, I'm not enjoying every second.
But for you, You've got on this journey of you know,
years and years and years and having twins, I kind
of found them how hard that would be, but in
the moments we are not enjoying it. How are you
dealing with the guilt?
Speaker 5 (32:24):
The first four months we had to we had to
feed the boys every three hours, but it took an
hour and a half to do the both of them,
So every hour and a half we had to start again,
just through the night for so it was eight twelve am,
three am, six am, nine am, twelve pm, three pm,
six pm, nine pm back to twelve am.
Speaker 3 (32:45):
It's exhausting, isn't it right?
Speaker 5 (32:47):
And I took an hour and a half to do
to took forty five minutes through one baby. Because ultra
prem babies, if a feed has to take they have
to take x amount of calories in over thirty minutes
if every minute over the thirty minutes completely counteracts.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
What they've just done because of the depletion of energy
they've used, So there's this pressure on you to do.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
That, and then you have to berth them a certain
way for an x amount of time because they're not
developed yet right to be able to do what a
term baby can do, so it takes.
Speaker 3 (33:18):
Far more time.
Speaker 5 (33:19):
So it was an hour and a half to do
both boys, and then an hour and a half lady
had to start again. And there were these nights no
lie and it was three am and it was my
gig and I was like cooked, like beyond and it was.
It sounds so cliche and weird, right, but there was
(33:39):
this star that I could see every single night looking
out the window, and I would think to myself, I'm
so not alone, and I've got so many people around us,
like we're privileged, We've got good family and friends and
a network. And I would look at this start and
I was like, there's parents, probably mothers, doing this by themselves.
And I had everything at my disposal, and that that
(34:04):
was like what got me through that. I was like,
I'm actually really lucky. We got everything we wanted. It's hard,
it's frustrating, this is fucking tiring as fuck, right, But
I was like, there's there's someone else out here doing
a feed by themselves with no support right now that
might be looking at that star and there was just
starting to know a connection I had with it.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
And You're right, there's so many people out there that
don't have the support and the network. As dads and
as parents, we sometimes we take those moments for granted.
That hang on a minute, like, people are really battling
to have what I have and it's really hard to
see that sometimes, and we are just doing the.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
Best we can with what we've got.
Speaker 5 (34:41):
I truly believe it, right, And and that just told
me I wasn't alone, right, And it can feel so lonely.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
You guys know this as parents.
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Every parent does right, like the pros and cons and
the pressure can put on the relationship and yourself and
but you know, it's a moment in time and we're
you're not alone in it, even though you might feel it.
So find that one thing that might connect you to
somebody else when when you really feel alone.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (35:08):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
And when you look at the type of dad that
you are now, are the twins they ate nine months?
Speaker 3 (35:15):
Eighteen months?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Oh shit?
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Are you the type of dad now that when you
were fantasizing about being a parent, Do they match up?
Speaker 3 (35:25):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (35:26):
I love therapy right, And my therapist one day I
said to her, is this.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
The same one that said don't fuck for five dates?
Speaker 3 (35:32):
No different, You've got to evolve in.
Speaker 5 (35:39):
I said, you know, I have this idea of the
type of dad I want to be, but I'm scared
of the dad I know I'm going to be, which
is a helicopter parent. I'll find it hard to share
them or let them go right to some people. She said, well, like,
you have to work on the type of person you
want to be. You have to actually do the work
to be the parent you want to be. It's not
(36:00):
just going to come to you. I had to very
early actively make myself uncomfortable as a dad by allowing
my boys to be with other people who do the
things that I thought I was a bit frightened of.
And now I'm like, this is a call less little
fucking cats, Like we hang out, like they were eating
(36:21):
ants on the floor the other day with me, and
I was like it was just like there's these moments
of like, oh, I got a bird at the park,
and like the three of us are fascinated together, and
I'm like, this was it.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
This is exactly everything I wanted it. And it's so
profound sometimes that you don't.
Speaker 4 (36:36):
Realize it till you get in the car after the
session You're like Holy. So there's times like for me
where I've always sort of felt somewhat isolated as a
child growing up, and then now it's sort of into
my I feel like I always have to be around people.
And my therapist said, you've got a little best friend. Now,
do you not understand that?
Speaker 3 (36:53):
Yeah, okay, but whatever you say, they're like, fuck, yeah, yeah,
I'm in there or die.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
I remember that sentence and I get in the car
and I was like, I fucking cried dude, because I
was like, I can't believe I took that for granted
and I didn't know it was right there.
Speaker 5 (37:09):
I promised Bobby Beckett vocally the other day, promised him.
I'm like, as your dad, I said, as your dad,
I promise you, mate.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
I'm never going to tell you you're too much.
Speaker 5 (37:21):
Because he has this zest of energy and life you
just see already, which is just the excitement he has
of the world around him. He's just going to run
headfirst into the world with it. And whereas you know,
over to Oliver, he is the most considered human being
I've ever come across as well. But my whole life,
(37:41):
having full energy, was always told shut up, you too much,
be quiet, just always.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Put in this corner. And there was this moment the
other day.
Speaker 5 (37:48):
I looked at Bobby Becker and I went, my job,
as your dad is to one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Make sure like I let you really be the best
version of you. I'm never going to.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Say you too much.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
I love that. I love that so much.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
We were speaking in the car driving here about the
fact that for yourself, two loving dads, obviously no mum
in the picture because Amber doesn't play that role. Is
that something that plays on your mind as a dad?
Speaker 5 (38:15):
Now, it's funny you say that I had this. I'm
gonna fucking cry again. I don't think I was going to.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Two people cry on your podcast. Oh good, she.
Speaker 4 (38:26):
Keeps trying to get me to cry, but I've just
wired differently.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
But getting back to.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
The two girls, beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, and I had this moment.
I don't know if you guys have come across her.
What's her name, fucking miss something. She's American, Miss Rachel.
Speaker 3 (38:45):
God do tell.
Speaker 5 (38:50):
I had this moment and it was caught on It
was just organic and natural. And the boys, they haven't
really liked television or connected to anything, just flicking and
I'm scrolling and they just go super silent and they
are like hooked to Miss Rachel. She's never come on before,
but they have just stopped in sync and they're listening
(39:10):
to it right, and I was like, oh my god,
this is fascinating. We're down a show to fucking like
that I can use to distract them if I need it,
right And next second she starts going, okay, now let's
say I.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Love you mama.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
I love you mama, and I'm going, oh my fucking god.
Speaker 3 (39:30):
I'm like I wasn't ready for this.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
And I'm looking at the boys and they're like they
can pick up everything really quick.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
Some one starts saying mummy, mummy, and I'm like, oh
my god. Anyway, I'm like, look that girl has a
mom bright like, oh, how cool? Right.
Speaker 5 (39:46):
I tried to just throw it off and anyway, I
was like, get this bitch off my television.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
I'm just gonna fuck sit up. I wasna read out
of this conversation.
Speaker 5 (39:56):
And then I put the boys in the bath later
on and I start crying. I bore my eyes out
right because I'm like, I have a really good mom,
and I realized that my boys are never going to
have a mom. And then I've felt guilty that have
brought kids into this world that aren't ever going to
have a mom. They've got two really great dads. But
they're never going to experience what I did in a mum.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
And I shared that.
Speaker 5 (40:18):
As well as I quickly fucking kicked myself up the
ass and picked myself up and I kept moving.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
And what I.
Speaker 5 (40:26):
Got was this beautiful and I never looked for validation
from others, but I share parts of myself and people
were like I had. I had one mom and one
dad and they were both disappointments.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Your kids don't just have one great dad.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
They've got two incredible dads, like far more than what
I ever had. And there was this beautiful, beautiful sense
of like I think respect I got or or people
held up a mirror.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
To me in that moment. I was like, alright, cool,
pick yourself up. They're going to be fine.
Speaker 5 (40:52):
But you know, I think it comes from and I
come from a loving family that I went, oh my god,
my boys aren't I'm going to miss out on something
I loved having, which.
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Is a good mum.
Speaker 4 (41:00):
These boys have two dads that absolutely loved them so much.
And you said something before where you said, I'm never
ever going to tell you that you're too much.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
I want you to be you.
Speaker 4 (41:11):
And that is something that no one else other than
two loving parents can give them, and congratulations for that,
because sitting with you for forty five minutes, you can
tell how fucking passionate you are about these two humans
that you've.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
They are so lucky you've spent so long to.
Speaker 3 (41:27):
Bring into the world.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
And then when they grow up and they're like, I'm
going to have the coolest fucking dads in the world.
Speaker 5 (41:32):
I just can't wait. Like Luke tells this great story.
Our egg donor is six or six. She plays volleyball
for America and is an Ivy League scholar.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
The drug did you get them into a sports school immediately?
So listen, They're going to be giants. They already are, right.
Speaker 5 (41:48):
I just have this nightmare before they were born that
I would carry them as babies under both arms and
their legs were dragged. The boys are eighty months they're
already like eighty two centimeters tall. One's premier, and they're
already like they're going to be fucking monsters. And Luke
says this great story to somebody the other week. He goes,
I just fast forward and in like fifteen years time,
(42:11):
twenty years time, like they'll be playing professional basketball or something, right,
and then the other people on the team will be like,
who is that little lady screaming on the sidelines and.
Speaker 3 (42:22):
Looks like there's going to be these two giant kids
are going to be like, that's how dad on the sidelines.
Speaker 5 (42:30):
They're just going to be the proudest, like biggest giants
on the fucking team.
Speaker 3 (42:34):
Two very lucky kids. Yeah, we're lucky parents. Do con
has one more question?
Speaker 1 (42:39):
Conscious that we're going to get some vanilla ice creams
and bolonnais into you. So one last question. When the
boys are grown up and they've moved out of home,
they're no longer living under your roof, what is the
one thing you want them to remember about the house
they grew up in.
Speaker 3 (42:55):
My God, I think that they were allowed.
Speaker 5 (43:01):
They were allowed, and that's means allowed to be them
their true self, That they were in a place that
was of no judgment and nothing but support. And I
came from that home, but in a different in a
different generation, a different time that where generational and or
(43:22):
like societal norms really greatly affected you, right, And so
Minor Marux's yeah, like dream and promise is that they're
never going to carry the burden of what society, you know.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
What mold they should have fit into.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Yeah, not in our house, Like that doesn't exist in
our house.
Speaker 5 (43:41):
So I want them to know that they can always,
always truly one be themselves and not be affected by
whatever anyone else around them thinks.
Speaker 4 (43:49):
That's an amazing, amazing answer, And thank you so much.
I know we've been trying to get you on for
a long time.
Speaker 5 (43:54):
Realizing perfect moment and I'm really grateful for this time too.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Thank you so much much. Been a bloody joy. Thanks fellas.
Speaker 1 (44:05):
I often complaining fash about parenting. When I say often,
I mean daily. I was gonna say, howie, but it
is really nice to speak to someone else, another parent,
to put into perspective how lucky we are considering we
didn't have to go through six years of trying, of
going through a minefield to try and just be a
(44:27):
To try and just be a parent.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
Is literally a rollercoaster. Like the patients on both of them.
There are so many people that probably just will give
up just because they lose hope. But it just goes
to show if you're persistent enough and you really want that,
then you know it can come true. So amazing chat.
There's laughs, people cried, not me this.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
Time not yet. Yeah, do I dare say? Do I
dare say? One of my favorite episodes.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Oh yeah, it was great chat. It was so like
organic and like funny and there's some laughs.
Speaker 1 (44:59):
Some li I liked him before, I love him now.
Speaker 3 (45:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:03):
And his brother is also a very good fellow.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Let's not forget about Luke Luke. If I have kids,
get on the podcast.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a little review
five stars, send us to a friend, or you can
join us where on socials.
Speaker 1 (45:15):
Mat on social media at two Doting Dads on Instagram, TikTok.
There is also YouTube not for these eves for the
Wednesday episodes. Ignore me, I'm confusing you, but leave a review.
There we go perfect.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
See how bye bye.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country
throughout Australia and the connections to land, see and community.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
We pay our respects to their elders past and present
and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and torrestraight onland
the people's today
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