March 7, 2023 • 29 mins
Join host Stephanie Douglass as she speaks with former CMO of Bed Bath & Beyond and current CMO at Atlantic Health System, Eric Steinberger. We also hear from consumers on what empathy means to them as we gear up to launch MDRG's 4-part empathy series: Elevate Your Brand with Empathy.
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Episode Transcript
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Stephanie (00:03):
Welcome to what Consumers Want, the podcast that brings the
voice of the consumer to the health care conversation. Are
you interested in getting outside the health care echo chamber?
Using research and insights will explore key health care opportunities
through the eyes of the end consumer. We examine trends
outside of health care that are driving consumer expectations, as
well as what consumers expect from brands now and in
(00:24):
the future. This podcast is brought to you by DRG,
a market research firm that unlocks the whole mind for
deeper insights. I'm your host, Stephanie Douglas, and let's find
out what consumers want. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today.
So we have a really big episode to start. We're
(00:44):
going to hear from Eric Steinberger of Atlantic Health in
New York. Eric came to health care just a year
ago with experience in almost every industry but health care.
So in this interview, we talk about his thoughts on
health care, branding, communications, and we hear about how his
consumer oriented perspective gained through his work at brands like Bed,
Bath and Beyond, American Express. And AOL is impacting his
(01:07):
work as CMO at Atlantic Health. We're also going to
pivot a little bit after that and talk about empathy.
We're going to introduce you to MDGs four part series
on how empathy can help elevate your brand. We have
some really great voice of the customer clips for you
in this episode, so be sure to stay tuned until
the end. All right, let's jump right in with the
conversation with Eric. Yeah, we'd love to start with kind
(01:28):
of an introduction. If you could tell us a little
bit about your background and then we'll kind of go
from there.
Eric (01:33):
Sure. So currently the chief marketing officer of Atlantic Health System,
large integrated health system in northern New Jersey, been there
for a little bit over a year, sort of a
very background. Started my career in management consulting after business
school really pivoted into marketing at American Express, so worked
in the credit card business for a while, then made
(01:54):
a brief stint at AOL trying to get people not
to cancel their dial up Internet accounts, which was a
very humbling experience. Many lessons learned. But early in my
career after that, I'd pivoted back to professional services, doing
marketing strategy consulting, and then the company we were starting
up became more of a full service digital agency. So
(02:15):
did that for a number of years and then most
recently actually before Atlantic Health spent eight years as chief
marketing officer at Bed Bath and Beyond across the Mothership
and some of the other brands. You know, it's sort
of funny. I had between, you know, in all our
professional services basically have worked in almost every single industry
except health care. So it was always interested in sort
(02:36):
of making the pivot and think after the bed, Bath
and Beyond experience, I don't want to call it a
midlife crisis, call it whatever you want, but it was
sort of just this whole idea of my career always
being more money, bigger team, larger company, and sort of
my priorities shifted a little bit. And I said wanted
to have more purpose and meaning in my work. And
so a combination of that and feeling like health care
(02:57):
was a place that I would feel that greater purpose
and also the fact that the skills I had built
up over my entire career I felt could be very
helpful in the world of health care, given where they
were and what I saw happening in front of them
over the next ten years.
Stephanie (03:13):
Yeah, definitely. And we're seeing more and more is coming
from outside of the health care landscape, which I think
is so refreshing and definitely helping with bringing that patient
centric point of view that everybody is talking about these
days and trying to optimize for. I would love you know,
in our previous conversations, we kind of talked about when
you came in, you kind of started with some research
(03:35):
and the voice of the customer, and I'd love to
talk about that, like what kind of questions you had
coming into the role and the importance of the voice
of the customer. As you know, we're a research firm,
so it's always a fun conversation for us, but we'd
love to kind of understand that approach that you took
when you when you started.
Eric (03:51):
One of the top priorities, which were part of the
discussions coming in, was historically with a lot of these
health providers, they've grown through acquisition. It's a mix of
all these individual hospitals, physician offices, ambulatory facilities, rehab facilities.
You know, they all have their own names and their
own brand. And so one of my priorities was how
do we elevate the Atlantic health brand? How do we
(04:13):
get people to understand the collection of all of these
health provider systems together and what that means for a consumer?
So a lot of my research focused around coming out
of the gate that mean some basic foundational stuff like
do consumers even understand what a health system is? How
do they make choices in this space? What are the
(04:35):
key dimensions? What are the key drivers? Historically, there was
very minimal real insight work done around that. You know,
because again, it's the consumer centricity. In the past, it
was just sort of believed that what the hospital administrators,
the physicians, sort of all the people and what they
heard from the board and other large community stakeholders was like, hey,
(04:56):
this is why we love your hospital. So that's what
we're going to talk. About out in public. And I
just said, Well, let's just confirm that. Let's really actually
hear what what the average Joe consumer who isn't thinking
about health care in their local hospital every day, 24
over seven, didn't have the same points of view because
that's sort of one of the very first things you
(05:16):
learn when you get into marketing is that you're not
your average consumer. You're an outlier in every single way.
So so that was the focus of some of the
research initially. Yeah.
Stephanie (05:24):
So. Question Do people know what a health system is?
Eric (05:27):
You know, it's interesting. What we understood is that they
are beginning to in a significant way, I think based
on what we understood now, more than half the population
understands what a health system is. And there was also,
I think, a historically I believe many customers viewed that
as a negative. You know, it's like I used to
have this personal relationship with my doctor and now he's
(05:49):
part of this big corporate conglomerate. I'm going to be
treated like a number and no longer as an individual.
But that wasn't true either. What we found is that
well over 60, 70% of the population is aware of
what a system is and the vast majority have of
either a somewhat or a very favorable view. There are
a small percentage that view it as a negative, but
(06:10):
the awareness of system and the value of system is
continuing to grow over trend. Over time. The sort of
detractors are staying pretty small and flat. So we see
it as consumers sort of adjusting to that new reality
and seeing value in it. Yeah. And so that's sort
of what's one of the big open questions when it
came to branding a health system was, I mean, even
(06:30):
don't just be assumptive. That idea that consumers understand what
a system is, but also they see value in it.
And then we could talk about how we have the
best quality. We could talk about how we have all
these locations or whatever it is. But what are the
unique benefits of being a system versus an individual urgent
care center or a primary care office or just a
(06:52):
standalone hospital? And do consumers see value in some of
those things that we could provide as a system better
than any of those other individual entities? Because that idea
of sort of focusing on your your core differentiator should
be something that's very difficult to replicate out in the space.
And so we wanted to really focus on some of
those aspects of system this and see if any of
(07:12):
them could really pop as a differentiator for us.
Stephanie (07:15):
Sure. And so one threat to the system idea is
the retailers that also can be viewed as systems or
as bigger, more money behind putting behind something or more
ability to serve. And so kind of what do you
see in your research as far as the differentiator between
and I'm thinking specifically the retailers, not digital disruptors per se,
(07:36):
but like the CVS is in the Walgreens and the
target's as far as that ability to deliver care.
Eric (07:42):
Yeah, well, I think they're focused on the right space
for them in terms of urgent care and, you know,
sort of in the context of and with, you know,
the millennial and sort of the younger consumer that views
health care more transactional than a lifetime relationship. So I
think that's the place where they can accelerate because they're
coming in with a better sort of consumer centric mindset,
(08:04):
better investment for digital capabilities. Do you think in the
context of got a cold or you know, and need
some antibiotics or whatever it is, the quality, sort of
extensive expertise, technology capabilities of a large health system aren't
don't resonate as well in the context of that particular transaction.
So the retailers coming in and trying to focus on
that space and saying like, hey, you got a cold,
(08:24):
you just want to get some antibiotics, you call your
primary care physician that's part of your large health system.
And if they can get you in for 3 or
4 days, you just walk in, in, in an hour
and you'll get what you need. That's going to be
a benefit that's going to resonate with some people and
think that a lot of the retailers have a very
competitive offering in that space. Now, do think that's anything
we as a health system can't replicate? No, again, it's
(08:45):
not rocket science. We just need to figure out how
to get the organization behind it and do it. And
I think that will be critically important. Do I feel
that the retailers adopting that strategy is sort of a
game changer to the threat of the existence of a
health system? I think that we certainly it certainly concerns me.
It's certainly something I have my eye on. But do
(09:06):
I feel that that battle's been lost? Absolutely not. Because
what I don't think a retailer is going to be
able to replicate is the, you know, the tertiary hospital
system and the advanced critical care and sort of all
those other pieces that come with it and think if
our strategy is to help people understand, we're here to
manage your, you know, your health over your lifetime. And
(09:26):
we have a breadth of capabilities to do that. And yes,
in this one particular context and in this instance, you
have the flu or you got a cold or you
got something and you just sprained ankle or whatever it is,
and you don't need sort of all of that if
we're at least at par in terms of the convenience
angle of giving you access to those things. But then
we throw on you'll keep it all in the same
(09:47):
medical record. The doctor will know you will have that history.
We'll bake it all in. I think that could be
a differentiator enough to keep us in the game. But
getting that customer experience to be at par with those
retailers coming in is going to be critical.
Stephanie (09:59):
Part of that. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what, you know,
I think that's where a lot of the systems are
and feel that threat. It's the low acuity care that's
really impacted for sure.
Eric (10:09):
And at the end of the day, all the you know,
it's the journey. We meet with the service line in
the hospital leads and it's, you know, someone's in neuro
or cardiology or even any of these other specialties. It's
unless it's some unexpected thing and you end up in
an ed and then you're funneled into that area for
for your care. Outside of that, it's not usually like
the people who end up in our hospitals. It's their
(10:30):
very first interaction with us. It's a they've started with
the primary care, you know, ObGyn. They've been referred through
to a specialist and then they're having diagnostic or other
procedures done in the hospital. And so that's a big
part of the funnel. So to me, we have to
continue to own the space of that sort of top
of the funnel entry into your health care experience of
(10:52):
primary care acquisition and other sort of consumer led choice categories,
because it's what feeds everything else through the health system.
And we need to get consumers to understand the benefits
and the value of having that be all in one place.
Stephanie (11:07):
And speaking of kind of top of funnel, what do
you think that health systems can do better with some
of the more awareness type tactics out there? It's still
so traditional in their media buys and in the way
they represent themselves. I'm just curious, coming from your background
and experience, what are some of the things that you think,
you know, we really could play in this space or
(11:29):
we could be doing this or this?
Eric (11:30):
Yeah, you know, mean think it's marketing gets a greater
focus in health care talent from other industries comes in
but also the existing talent just given a lot more
freedom to innovate and drive that all those things are
both are causing, I think, a couple of dimensions to shift.
One is just the movement of the channels from the
(11:51):
more sort of traditional difficult to measure channels to more
digital focused channels where building of analytics and measurement and
an understanding of what view through on display ads and
lift and attribution and media mix modeling and sort of
all those competencies which never existed in health care before
starting to come in, is allowing people to sort of
(12:11):
demonstrate the value of those channels vis a vis the
more traditional ones. But I think actually more important is
the messaging. One of the things that we talk a
lot about at Atlantic Health System and it's sort of
a contrarian view and would say it's helping all of
the employees understand is that I feel like historically, because
of the sort of disparate nature of all these aspects
(12:31):
of the health system, I feel like not only are
we trying to help the consumer understand who like in
our case, Atlantic health System is and what the core
differentiators of our brand are. But then at the same time,
we're also trying to bring cardiology, we're also trying to
brand oncology, We're also trying to brand this immediate care
location in this hospital, in this particular doctor's office. And
(12:52):
part of my mantra within the organization is that what
we're actually trying to do is impossible to do, nor
should it be. I went to the University of Michigan
for business school. You ask a general audience, Does anyone
know the name of the business school at Michigan? The
vast majority of people wouldn't know. It's the Ross School
of Business at the University of Michigan, but they certainly
heard about University of Michigan. They don't need to know
(13:15):
the Raw School of Business unless they're highly interested in
an MBA and or in that sort of world. And
so what I'm trying to get the organization focused around
is this idea that we need to brand Atlantic health System,
and then these are the core differentiators of the brand.
And then as people identify and raise their hand and say, Hey,
I have a health issue coming into Atlantic Health because
(13:36):
it's clear you guys are great at all things health related.
And I'm interested in learning more about cardiology. Well, now
let's start to interact and talk to them and tell
them why we're the best place to get their cardiology
care versus others. But to think that we're going to
be able to allow the average person on the street
to understand anything more than the name of our health
(13:59):
system and that we're a place that is where they
should start their journey because they've heard we're probably provide
great quality care and have a wonderful reputation that we're
just not going to get them to understand anything more
deep than that because they're not engaged in this category
in their daily lives.
Stephanie (14:17):
Think about when I was at an agency doing some
health care marketing, and this quarter we're doing a campaign
about cardiology because we got this brand new cardiologist and
he knows how to do X, Y, Z maneuver or procedure.
And we're kind of like, okay, so we're going to
put an outdoor board about that, you know, and talk
to everybody about that. But that's just kind of the
traditional way that things worked.
Eric (14:39):
That's inefficient because there's only a small audience that actually
is going to resonate with that message. So to me,
it's also thinking about consumer marketing and B2B marketing. So
part of the layer is, look, when we're just talking
to the general public, we got to keep the message
simple and be about the health system overall and all
of the. Worth of offerings and the reputation and the
(15:01):
quality and sort of all those other pieces. But that's
not the only audience. Mean we care about the reputation
amongst the referring physician community. We care about larger community
stakeholders and for employment purposes as well. And so very
specific medical conferences, very specific physician audience groups, certainly talking
(15:22):
about those things with those audiences and branding, whatever sort
of specialty or location amongst the professional community is still
very important. But that's to me a different effort than
what we're doing in the consumer world. So we've just
hired some luminary physician in a particular specialty area. We
have some new piece of equipment that's really groundbreaking. We're
doing some new clinical trials that are really innovative. All
(15:44):
that's great. The point is, is it's not an efficient
way to communicate that on a billboard on on 95.
But it's not that that's not worthy of being spoken about.
It's just to a targeted audience of individuals who are
going to remember and have it resonate.
Stephanie (15:58):
Right place, right time. Exactly. Yeah. And so you're coming
in as a new CMO when you're coming in and
you have to kind of prove yourself. What have you
figured out as like the key KPIs that say, okay,
this is working. Whatever changes we've made, they're driving the
results that we want. Yeah.
Eric (16:14):
So it's been interesting. I mean, I think in general
in marketing, given sort of the evolution of our involvement
and some of the foundational sort of technical capabilities to
even capture it, I think just bringing even data in
general to the organization is how to drive change because
they're business people that are operators, they get it. And
(16:34):
so that has been a focus for us. It's just
even in building the foundational capabilities and getting the measurements,
it's various different things that we're looking at from sort
of an acquisition standpoint. You know, what's your cost per
new appointment, what's your cost per lead and how does
that compare against the lifetime value? And is this an
efficient channel to be driving new patients into the door?
On the engagement side, it's interesting. For my retail financial services,
(16:58):
all the other industries engagements been about we want to
do more with you and that measurements, we're generating more
revenue with you in some cases. In the world of
health care, it's almost sort of like that's a bad thing.
In some cases it could be a bad thing because
we're not managing health well and you need to come
in for all sorts of additional procedures or it could
be a good thing because you have some chronic disease
and you haven't been treating it, but now you're coming
(17:19):
in and getting regular treatments to avoid a really expensive
procedure down the line. So it's actually not the right
metric to think about it from sort of a revenue standpoint.
But really for us, we think about it as we're
trying to manage an individual's health over their lifetime. And
some people it's not the same as sort of Apple
or Disney or some of these other brands where I'm
(17:40):
trying to build brand love and I want you every
day to go to our website. But it's really we
want to me sort of the litmus test is if
a consumer says like you're always there whenever, whenever I
need you. And for some people that may be I
want to engage every week and read articles and content
and proactively manage my health. And for others that might
be when something happens. I want to be able to
(18:01):
just call you and reach you and know how to
do that quickly and get what I need. So for us,
it's really about the interactions with the communications that we're
sending out and are people finding them valuable and interacting
with them as a big focus for us? And do
we feel through metrics in our accountable care organizations or
other things that we're doing a better job helping people
(18:22):
manage their health over the lifetime and making everyone in
the community healthier? And again, there's different ways to measure that.
And certainly NPS and all the other sort of traditional
metrics coming into the mix as well. But that's really
the lens that we're viewing it as in terms of
what success means. I don't need to send you an
email every day and have you open it every day
to have success. I just want you to feel that
(18:43):
we've done a better job of keeping you healthy.
Stephanie (18:45):
So have kind of little right turn. Question I was
just reading some articles about the wellness integration that brands
are really bringing in. In particular, you know, sports are
really honing in on wellness and even behavioral health with
especially Simone Biles in the Olympics. It seems interesting to me.
And I wonder, I think obviously systems can have partnerships
(19:07):
and play a role in this wellness. But I wonder,
you know, as consumers have all of these wearables and
are tracking their health outside of the system, what risk
is that for, say, 2040? I don't know to systems
about or what does that say? What are the systems
need to do and be thinking about? Right now we're
worried about primary care and the leaky bucket, but what
(19:27):
if it becomes wellness is over here and therefore primary
care is with this other disruptor because the whole chain
has kind of been disrupted.
Eric (19:35):
Again, it's hard to say how things are evolved, but
it's certainly something that we keep on the on the
quote unquote watch list. My personal view would be that
all of this is actually a good thing. And as
Apple and some of the, you know, other tech companies
are getting more and more into health care, to me,
I think this idea that you as a consumer owned
(19:56):
all of your health data and think of the future
of the. It's going to be consumer centric. It'll be
you have all of the information from your medical file,
your electronic medical record. You might have different doctors and
different physicians and aren't on the same system, but you
can store all that in one central place. And then
the wearables and the other sort of devices are tracking
(20:17):
other things, and it all sort of sits there. And
then any person that you're interacting with can you know
who you choose to you can share all of that
with and that's only going to lead to better outcomes.
And so I think your health data is going to
be held by you as an individual and then you're
going to have the authority and flexibility to share it
with whoever you want. So don't necessarily think data is
(20:37):
going to end up, you know, that one sort of
part of the value chain or one provider in that
value chain is going to own all that data and
therefore take the power away from the network. I think
that's going to sit with the individual and it's only
going to actually allow us as consumers, give us permission
to access that data to become more personalized, more relevant,
sort of more informative of the kinds of things that
(20:58):
we can do to help them manage their health. So
that becomes sort of the value exchange that says like, Hey,
you share your data with us, this is where you're
going to get in return and hopefully you'll find that value.
Stephanie (21:08):
Yeah, it'll all be on blockchain. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well,
just to wrap up, I would love to know one
last thing of maybe what has been the most unexpected
part joining a health system as the CMO.
Eric (21:22):
It's hard to name one thing, so maybe I'll give
you a couple. One is, you know, I came in
sort of having spent half my career in consulting and
sort of prided myself on saying like, Hey, don't know
this industry that well, but I've jumped into a million
different industries. And usually, you know, within about 3 or
4 months I could wrap my arms around it, fully,
understand it, really understand the levers to sort of drive
that industry and feel really comfortable. I could tell you
(21:44):
over a year in Am still understanding healthcare. It is
way more complicated and industry than anything that I've ever
been a part of. So I think that's been a
sort of humbling experience. On the flip side, some of
what's sort of surprised me is the upside potential of
what we can do in terms of building more customer
(22:05):
centricity within the organization. Maybe I didn't fully appreciate just
having always been in heavy consumer facing industries, like from
day one of starting my career many years ago, it
was always the customer or the customer or the customer
or the customer and health care, just because of the
historical nature of sort of how it's evolved. That wasn't
(22:26):
always the initial focus. So that mindset is emerging and
growing in healthcare, but just, you know, isn't sort of
second nature today. So I'm surprised every day when we
talk about, you know, issue A, B or C, like
my sort of mindset just goes to certain one direction
and find I have this contrarian view more often than
(22:48):
I expected. But that being said, it's been actually, I
wouldn't say easy, but pleasantly productive to manage that change
through the organization because they very much are open to
it and want to receive it. Just got to keep
it simple.
Stephanie (23:00):
Stupid every time. All right. Thanks, Eric, so much again
for your time and participating in our podcast. I love
the simplicity of his message as far as going back
to basics of branding, elevating the brand and then communicating
at the right time and the right place for the
specific needs and services for an individual patient. Nailed it. Now,
as I mentioned, we wanted to pivot a little bit
(23:21):
and talk to you about some work we're doing around empathy.
A lot of the trends that we've discussed on this
podcast and are disrupting health care like consumerism and convenience
culture are really underpinned by a basic human need, which
is empathy. Now, this isn't new to health care. In fact,
some may argue that it's endemic of all industries. Health
care should be the leader of empathetic practices, and our
(23:42):
care providers in most cases are. And historically, empathy has
been placed on the shoulders of these providers. But in
today's climate, to attract and retain patients, employees, health care
brands can't just rely on a single moment of empathy
to drive satisfaction. Brands have to foster empathy during the
entire customer journey, from marketing to operations. Empathy when deployed
(24:02):
holistically can make the difference between a health care brand
that is sought after and one that has shunned. The
trends we explore in this series are broadly applicable and
being experienced across industries. But we wanted to use this
time to examine how to integrate empathy in the patient
and employee journey to improve experience and outcomes. So over
the next eight weeks we will be highlighting one of
(24:23):
four areas that we believe can be improved by approaching
it with a little more empathy. So our first series
will focus on why consumer demand for the empathetic employer
is here to stay and how it will drive employee
and patient retention. Our second report will be around when
to deploy Web three technologies to foster deeper empathy and
trust between care teams and patients. Third, we'll look into
(24:44):
why health care's diversity and inclusion efforts are missing the
mark and how empathy can bridge the gap. And fourth,
we'll look at how mental health can be addressed at
every step in the patient journey and employee experience to
improve outcomes and satisfaction. So that's a little peek. But
before we dive into that with you, all we ask.
Consumers to define empathy for us wanting to understand from
their perspective what does empathy mean? So we'll let a
(25:06):
few consumers tell us about that in these next clips.
Consumer #1 (25:09):
Empathy is being sensitive to others.
Consumer #2 (25:12):
Empathy is understanding a way that someone else feels.
Consumer #3 (25:17):
Empathy is being able to understand where somebody else is
experiencing something.
Consumer #4 (25:26):
Empathy means to me having the ability to understand and
share what someone else is feeling.
Stephanie (25:32):
Pretty straightforward, right? It seems as though individuals have a
pretty good general understanding of what empathy is, but how
can that play out in our delivery of services? We
had one really interesting consumer experience that we felt was
a clear example of walking in your patient shoes.
Consumer #5 (25:46):
At my dentist office, I gasped the first time I
walked in because each and every patient chair looks out
of a huge window onto a courtyard full of tens
of different bird feeders so you can watch different birds
come and eat while you get your teeth cleaned.
Stephanie (26:05):
So just even looking in the patient chair from this
consumer's perspective, you know that somebody specifically thought about what
they were looking at and put something peaceful and entertaining
to watch for their patients. I love that clip. I
love that somebody took the time to sit in the
patient's chair and think about what they were seeing while
they were at the dentist. I think this is a
(26:25):
quintessential example of walking in your patient shoes and of
an empathy in general. Now, this next voice of the
consumer is one that I chose because it reminded me
of the empathetic roots that health care is grounded in
and that it's not just the patients and prospective patients
that require empathy, but also the community around a patient.
Consumer #6 (26:41):
So I've had a lot of experiences with health care,
and I've actually been in health care, But the best
experience I ever had with health care was after my
dad had a seizure and was unresponsive. And we had
a palliative care doctor who came in and talked to
my family realistically about what his quality of life would
(27:04):
be if he ever did regain consciousness and laid out
what the humane kind of end of life plan would
be there in the hospital. And the best part about
it was this doctor was kind of the opposite of
what all the other doctors were in, that she was
really thinking about quality and not really about just life
(27:28):
at any cost. And the way she communicated that to
us was direct. It was realistic, it was honest, and
it didn't rely on kind of any of these best
case scenario like theories. She told it like it was.
And in a moment of crazy crisis, when the world
(27:52):
kind of felt like it was collapsing, to have someone
who was honest and thoughtful with her communication was just unmatched.
How valuable that was in helping us make the right
decision for our family and for him and know that
we had really considered all the options and that we
didn't feel like anyone was kind of keeping anything away
(28:15):
from us.
Stephanie (28:16):
A sincere thank you to that consumer who shared such
an intimate experience with us. And this is really what
health care is all about and why behaving with empathy
is critical not just among care teams, but across all departments, organizations,
and really industries. It's a universal requirement when interacting with people.
So if you'd like to subscribe to this four part
series on empathy, please subscribe to our blog at Inc.com
(28:37):
or check out our social postings and the episode notes
for links. The four areas that we will cover include
why consumer demand for the empathetic employer is Here to
Stay When to deploy Web three Technologies to Foster Deeper Empathy.
Why Health Care is Diversity and Inclusion efforts are missing
the mark and how empathy can bridge the gap. And finally,
how mental health can be addressed at every step in
the patient journey and employee experience. All right, you guys,
(29:02):
thanks so much for tuning in. If you like what
you heard, please share rate and review on Apple, Spotify
or your favorite podcasting platform. For more content about simplifying
health care, visit Inc.com. That's Inc.com. This show is produced
by Shift Forward Health, The Channel for Change Makers. Subscribe
to Shift Forward Help on your favorite podcast app and
(29:23):
you'll be subscribed to our entire library of shows. See
our full lineup at Shift Forward Health one subscription all
the podcasts you need and it's all for free. We'll
see you next time on what Consumers want.
Welcome to what Consumers Want, the podcast that brings the
voice of the consumer to the health care conversation. Are
you interested in getting outside the health care echo chamber?
Using research and insights will explore key health care opportunities
through the eyes of the end consumer. We examine trends
outside of health care that are driving consumer expectations, as
well as what consumers expect from brands now and in
(00:24):
the future. This podcast is brought to you by DRG,
a market research firm that unlocks the whole mind for
deeper insights. I'm your host, Stephanie Douglas, and let's find
out what consumers want. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today.
So we have a really big episode to start. We're
(00:44):
going to hear from Eric Steinberger of Atlantic Health in
New York. Eric came to health care just a year
ago with experience in almost every industry but health care.
So in this interview, we talk about his thoughts on
health care, branding, communications, and we hear about how his
consumer oriented perspective gained through his work at brands like Bed,
Bath and Beyond, American Express. And AOL is impacting his
(01:07):
work as CMO at Atlantic Health. We're also going to
pivot a little bit after that and talk about empathy.
We're going to introduce you to MDGs four part series
on how empathy can help elevate your brand. We have
some really great voice of the customer clips for you
in this episode, so be sure to stay tuned until
the end. All right, let's jump right in with the
conversation with Eric. Yeah, we'd love to start with kind
(01:28):
of an introduction. If you could tell us a little
bit about your background and then we'll kind of go
from there.
Eric (01:33):
Sure. So currently the chief marketing officer of Atlantic Health System,
large integrated health system in northern New Jersey, been there
for a little bit over a year, sort of a
very background. Started my career in management consulting after business
school really pivoted into marketing at American Express, so worked
in the credit card business for a while, then made
(01:54):
a brief stint at AOL trying to get people not
to cancel their dial up Internet accounts, which was a
very humbling experience. Many lessons learned. But early in my
career after that, I'd pivoted back to professional services, doing
marketing strategy consulting, and then the company we were starting
up became more of a full service digital agency. So
(02:15):
did that for a number of years and then most
recently actually before Atlantic Health spent eight years as chief
marketing officer at Bed Bath and Beyond across the Mothership
and some of the other brands. You know, it's sort
of funny. I had between, you know, in all our
professional services basically have worked in almost every single industry
except health care. So it was always interested in sort
(02:36):
of making the pivot and think after the bed, Bath
and Beyond experience, I don't want to call it a
midlife crisis, call it whatever you want, but it was
sort of just this whole idea of my career always
being more money, bigger team, larger company, and sort of
my priorities shifted a little bit. And I said wanted
to have more purpose and meaning in my work. And
so a combination of that and feeling like health care
(02:57):
was a place that I would feel that greater purpose
and also the fact that the skills I had built
up over my entire career I felt could be very
helpful in the world of health care, given where they
were and what I saw happening in front of them
over the next ten years.
Stephanie (03:13):
Yeah, definitely. And we're seeing more and more is coming
from outside of the health care landscape, which I think
is so refreshing and definitely helping with bringing that patient
centric point of view that everybody is talking about these
days and trying to optimize for. I would love you know,
in our previous conversations, we kind of talked about when
you came in, you kind of started with some research
(03:35):
and the voice of the customer, and I'd love to
talk about that, like what kind of questions you had
coming into the role and the importance of the voice
of the customer. As you know, we're a research firm,
so it's always a fun conversation for us, but we'd
love to kind of understand that approach that you took
when you when you started.
Eric (03:51):
One of the top priorities, which were part of the
discussions coming in, was historically with a lot of these
health providers, they've grown through acquisition. It's a mix of
all these individual hospitals, physician offices, ambulatory facilities, rehab facilities.
You know, they all have their own names and their
own brand. And so one of my priorities was how
do we elevate the Atlantic health brand? How do we
(04:13):
get people to understand the collection of all of these
health provider systems together and what that means for a consumer?
So a lot of my research focused around coming out
of the gate that mean some basic foundational stuff like
do consumers even understand what a health system is? How
do they make choices in this space? What are the
(04:35):
key dimensions? What are the key drivers? Historically, there was
very minimal real insight work done around that. You know,
because again, it's the consumer centricity. In the past, it
was just sort of believed that what the hospital administrators,
the physicians, sort of all the people and what they
heard from the board and other large community stakeholders was like, hey,
(04:56):
this is why we love your hospital. So that's what
we're going to talk. About out in public. And I
just said, Well, let's just confirm that. Let's really actually
hear what what the average Joe consumer who isn't thinking
about health care in their local hospital every day, 24
over seven, didn't have the same points of view because
that's sort of one of the very first things you
(05:16):
learn when you get into marketing is that you're not
your average consumer. You're an outlier in every single way.
So so that was the focus of some of the
research initially. Yeah.
Stephanie (05:24):
So. Question Do people know what a health system is?
Eric (05:27):
You know, it's interesting. What we understood is that they
are beginning to in a significant way, I think based
on what we understood now, more than half the population
understands what a health system is. And there was also,
I think, a historically I believe many customers viewed that
as a negative. You know, it's like I used to
have this personal relationship with my doctor and now he's
(05:49):
part of this big corporate conglomerate. I'm going to be
treated like a number and no longer as an individual.
But that wasn't true either. What we found is that
well over 60, 70% of the population is aware of
what a system is and the vast majority have of
either a somewhat or a very favorable view. There are
a small percentage that view it as a negative, but
(06:10):
the awareness of system and the value of system is
continuing to grow over trend. Over time. The sort of
detractors are staying pretty small and flat. So we see
it as consumers sort of adjusting to that new reality
and seeing value in it. Yeah. And so that's sort
of what's one of the big open questions when it
came to branding a health system was, I mean, even
(06:30):
don't just be assumptive. That idea that consumers understand what
a system is, but also they see value in it.
And then we could talk about how we have the
best quality. We could talk about how we have all
these locations or whatever it is. But what are the
unique benefits of being a system versus an individual urgent
care center or a primary care office or just a
(06:52):
standalone hospital? And do consumers see value in some of
those things that we could provide as a system better
than any of those other individual entities? Because that idea
of sort of focusing on your your core differentiator should
be something that's very difficult to replicate out in the space.
And so we wanted to really focus on some of
those aspects of system this and see if any of
(07:12):
them could really pop as a differentiator for us.
Stephanie (07:15):
Sure. And so one threat to the system idea is
the retailers that also can be viewed as systems or
as bigger, more money behind putting behind something or more
ability to serve. And so kind of what do you
see in your research as far as the differentiator between
and I'm thinking specifically the retailers, not digital disruptors per se,
(07:36):
but like the CVS is in the Walgreens and the
target's as far as that ability to deliver care.
Eric (07:42):
Yeah, well, I think they're focused on the right space
for them in terms of urgent care and, you know,
sort of in the context of and with, you know,
the millennial and sort of the younger consumer that views
health care more transactional than a lifetime relationship. So I
think that's the place where they can accelerate because they're
coming in with a better sort of consumer centric mindset,
(08:04):
better investment for digital capabilities. Do you think in the
context of got a cold or you know, and need
some antibiotics or whatever it is, the quality, sort of
extensive expertise, technology capabilities of a large health system aren't
don't resonate as well in the context of that particular transaction.
So the retailers coming in and trying to focus on
that space and saying like, hey, you got a cold,
(08:24):
you just want to get some antibiotics, you call your
primary care physician that's part of your large health system.
And if they can get you in for 3 or
4 days, you just walk in, in, in an hour
and you'll get what you need. That's going to be
a benefit that's going to resonate with some people and
think that a lot of the retailers have a very
competitive offering in that space. Now, do think that's anything
we as a health system can't replicate? No, again, it's
(08:45):
not rocket science. We just need to figure out how
to get the organization behind it and do it. And
I think that will be critically important. Do I feel
that the retailers adopting that strategy is sort of a
game changer to the threat of the existence of a
health system? I think that we certainly it certainly concerns me.
It's certainly something I have my eye on. But do
(09:06):
I feel that that battle's been lost? Absolutely not. Because
what I don't think a retailer is going to be
able to replicate is the, you know, the tertiary hospital
system and the advanced critical care and sort of all
those other pieces that come with it and think if
our strategy is to help people understand, we're here to
manage your, you know, your health over your lifetime. And
(09:26):
we have a breadth of capabilities to do that. And yes,
in this one particular context and in this instance, you
have the flu or you got a cold or you
got something and you just sprained ankle or whatever it is,
and you don't need sort of all of that if
we're at least at par in terms of the convenience
angle of giving you access to those things. But then
we throw on you'll keep it all in the same
(09:47):
medical record. The doctor will know you will have that history.
We'll bake it all in. I think that could be
a differentiator enough to keep us in the game. But
getting that customer experience to be at par with those
retailers coming in is going to be critical.
Stephanie (09:59):
Part of that. Yeah, absolutely. And that's what, you know,
I think that's where a lot of the systems are
and feel that threat. It's the low acuity care that's
really impacted for sure.
Eric (10:09):
And at the end of the day, all the you know,
it's the journey. We meet with the service line in
the hospital leads and it's, you know, someone's in neuro
or cardiology or even any of these other specialties. It's
unless it's some unexpected thing and you end up in
an ed and then you're funneled into that area for
for your care. Outside of that, it's not usually like
the people who end up in our hospitals. It's their
(10:30):
very first interaction with us. It's a they've started with
the primary care, you know, ObGyn. They've been referred through
to a specialist and then they're having diagnostic or other
procedures done in the hospital. And so that's a big
part of the funnel. So to me, we have to
continue to own the space of that sort of top
of the funnel entry into your health care experience of
(10:52):
primary care acquisition and other sort of consumer led choice categories,
because it's what feeds everything else through the health system.
And we need to get consumers to understand the benefits
and the value of having that be all in one place.
Stephanie (11:07):
And speaking of kind of top of funnel, what do
you think that health systems can do better with some
of the more awareness type tactics out there? It's still
so traditional in their media buys and in the way
they represent themselves. I'm just curious, coming from your background
and experience, what are some of the things that you think,
you know, we really could play in this space or
(11:29):
we could be doing this or this?
Eric (11:30):
Yeah, you know, mean think it's marketing gets a greater
focus in health care talent from other industries comes in
but also the existing talent just given a lot more
freedom to innovate and drive that all those things are
both are causing, I think, a couple of dimensions to shift.
One is just the movement of the channels from the
(11:51):
more sort of traditional difficult to measure channels to more
digital focused channels where building of analytics and measurement and
an understanding of what view through on display ads and
lift and attribution and media mix modeling and sort of
all those competencies which never existed in health care before
starting to come in, is allowing people to sort of
(12:11):
demonstrate the value of those channels vis a vis the
more traditional ones. But I think actually more important is
the messaging. One of the things that we talk a
lot about at Atlantic Health System and it's sort of
a contrarian view and would say it's helping all of
the employees understand is that I feel like historically, because
of the sort of disparate nature of all these aspects
(12:31):
of the health system, I feel like not only are
we trying to help the consumer understand who like in
our case, Atlantic health System is and what the core
differentiators of our brand are. But then at the same time,
we're also trying to bring cardiology, we're also trying to
brand oncology, We're also trying to brand this immediate care
location in this hospital, in this particular doctor's office. And
(12:52):
part of my mantra within the organization is that what
we're actually trying to do is impossible to do, nor
should it be. I went to the University of Michigan
for business school. You ask a general audience, Does anyone
know the name of the business school at Michigan? The
vast majority of people wouldn't know. It's the Ross School
of Business at the University of Michigan, but they certainly
heard about University of Michigan. They don't need to know
(13:15):
the Raw School of Business unless they're highly interested in
an MBA and or in that sort of world. And
so what I'm trying to get the organization focused around
is this idea that we need to brand Atlantic health System,
and then these are the core differentiators of the brand.
And then as people identify and raise their hand and say, Hey,
I have a health issue coming into Atlantic Health because
(13:36):
it's clear you guys are great at all things health related.
And I'm interested in learning more about cardiology. Well, now
let's start to interact and talk to them and tell
them why we're the best place to get their cardiology
care versus others. But to think that we're going to
be able to allow the average person on the street
to understand anything more than the name of our health
(13:59):
system and that we're a place that is where they
should start their journey because they've heard we're probably provide
great quality care and have a wonderful reputation that we're
just not going to get them to understand anything more
deep than that because they're not engaged in this category
in their daily lives.
Stephanie (14:17):
Think about when I was at an agency doing some
health care marketing, and this quarter we're doing a campaign
about cardiology because we got this brand new cardiologist and
he knows how to do X, Y, Z maneuver or procedure.
And we're kind of like, okay, so we're going to
put an outdoor board about that, you know, and talk
to everybody about that. But that's just kind of the
traditional way that things worked.
Eric (14:39):
That's inefficient because there's only a small audience that actually
is going to resonate with that message. So to me,
it's also thinking about consumer marketing and B2B marketing. So
part of the layer is, look, when we're just talking
to the general public, we got to keep the message
simple and be about the health system overall and all
of the. Worth of offerings and the reputation and the
(15:01):
quality and sort of all those other pieces. But that's
not the only audience. Mean we care about the reputation
amongst the referring physician community. We care about larger community
stakeholders and for employment purposes as well. And so very
specific medical conferences, very specific physician audience groups, certainly talking
(15:22):
about those things with those audiences and branding, whatever sort
of specialty or location amongst the professional community is still
very important. But that's to me a different effort than
what we're doing in the consumer world. So we've just
hired some luminary physician in a particular specialty area. We
have some new piece of equipment that's really groundbreaking. We're
doing some new clinical trials that are really innovative. All
(15:44):
that's great. The point is, is it's not an efficient
way to communicate that on a billboard on on 95.
But it's not that that's not worthy of being spoken about.
It's just to a targeted audience of individuals who are
going to remember and have it resonate.
Stephanie (15:58):
Right place, right time. Exactly. Yeah. And so you're coming
in as a new CMO when you're coming in and
you have to kind of prove yourself. What have you
figured out as like the key KPIs that say, okay,
this is working. Whatever changes we've made, they're driving the
results that we want. Yeah.
Eric (16:14):
So it's been interesting. I mean, I think in general
in marketing, given sort of the evolution of our involvement
and some of the foundational sort of technical capabilities to
even capture it, I think just bringing even data in
general to the organization is how to drive change because
they're business people that are operators, they get it. And
(16:34):
so that has been a focus for us. It's just
even in building the foundational capabilities and getting the measurements,
it's various different things that we're looking at from sort
of an acquisition standpoint. You know, what's your cost per
new appointment, what's your cost per lead and how does
that compare against the lifetime value? And is this an
efficient channel to be driving new patients into the door?
On the engagement side, it's interesting. For my retail financial services,
(16:58):
all the other industries engagements been about we want to
do more with you and that measurements, we're generating more
revenue with you in some cases. In the world of
health care, it's almost sort of like that's a bad thing.
In some cases it could be a bad thing because
we're not managing health well and you need to come
in for all sorts of additional procedures or it could
be a good thing because you have some chronic disease
and you haven't been treating it, but now you're coming
(17:19):
in and getting regular treatments to avoid a really expensive
procedure down the line. So it's actually not the right
metric to think about it from sort of a revenue standpoint.
But really for us, we think about it as we're
trying to manage an individual's health over their lifetime. And
some people it's not the same as sort of Apple
or Disney or some of these other brands where I'm
(17:40):
trying to build brand love and I want you every
day to go to our website. But it's really we
want to me sort of the litmus test is if
a consumer says like you're always there whenever, whenever I
need you. And for some people that may be I
want to engage every week and read articles and content
and proactively manage my health. And for others that might
be when something happens. I want to be able to
(18:01):
just call you and reach you and know how to
do that quickly and get what I need. So for us,
it's really about the interactions with the communications that we're
sending out and are people finding them valuable and interacting
with them as a big focus for us? And do
we feel through metrics in our accountable care organizations or
other things that we're doing a better job helping people
(18:22):
manage their health over the lifetime and making everyone in
the community healthier? And again, there's different ways to measure that.
And certainly NPS and all the other sort of traditional
metrics coming into the mix as well. But that's really
the lens that we're viewing it as in terms of
what success means. I don't need to send you an
email every day and have you open it every day
to have success. I just want you to feel that
(18:43):
we've done a better job of keeping you healthy.
Stephanie (18:45):
So have kind of little right turn. Question I was
just reading some articles about the wellness integration that brands
are really bringing in. In particular, you know, sports are
really honing in on wellness and even behavioral health with
especially Simone Biles in the Olympics. It seems interesting to me.
And I wonder, I think obviously systems can have partnerships
(19:07):
and play a role in this wellness. But I wonder,
you know, as consumers have all of these wearables and
are tracking their health outside of the system, what risk
is that for, say, 2040? I don't know to systems
about or what does that say? What are the systems
need to do and be thinking about? Right now we're
worried about primary care and the leaky bucket, but what
(19:27):
if it becomes wellness is over here and therefore primary
care is with this other disruptor because the whole chain
has kind of been disrupted.
Eric (19:35):
Again, it's hard to say how things are evolved, but
it's certainly something that we keep on the on the
quote unquote watch list. My personal view would be that
all of this is actually a good thing. And as
Apple and some of the, you know, other tech companies
are getting more and more into health care, to me,
I think this idea that you as a consumer owned
(19:56):
all of your health data and think of the future
of the. It's going to be consumer centric. It'll be
you have all of the information from your medical file,
your electronic medical record. You might have different doctors and
different physicians and aren't on the same system, but you
can store all that in one central place. And then
the wearables and the other sort of devices are tracking
(20:17):
other things, and it all sort of sits there. And
then any person that you're interacting with can you know
who you choose to you can share all of that
with and that's only going to lead to better outcomes.
And so I think your health data is going to
be held by you as an individual and then you're
going to have the authority and flexibility to share it
with whoever you want. So don't necessarily think data is
(20:37):
going to end up, you know, that one sort of
part of the value chain or one provider in that
value chain is going to own all that data and
therefore take the power away from the network. I think
that's going to sit with the individual and it's only
going to actually allow us as consumers, give us permission
to access that data to become more personalized, more relevant,
sort of more informative of the kinds of things that
(20:58):
we can do to help them manage their health. So
that becomes sort of the value exchange that says like, Hey,
you share your data with us, this is where you're
going to get in return and hopefully you'll find that value.
Stephanie (21:08):
Yeah, it'll all be on blockchain. Yeah, exactly. Awesome. Well,
just to wrap up, I would love to know one
last thing of maybe what has been the most unexpected
part joining a health system as the CMO.
Eric (21:22):
It's hard to name one thing, so maybe I'll give
you a couple. One is, you know, I came in
sort of having spent half my career in consulting and
sort of prided myself on saying like, Hey, don't know
this industry that well, but I've jumped into a million
different industries. And usually, you know, within about 3 or
4 months I could wrap my arms around it, fully,
understand it, really understand the levers to sort of drive
that industry and feel really comfortable. I could tell you
(21:44):
over a year in Am still understanding healthcare. It is
way more complicated and industry than anything that I've ever
been a part of. So I think that's been a
sort of humbling experience. On the flip side, some of
what's sort of surprised me is the upside potential of
what we can do in terms of building more customer
(22:05):
centricity within the organization. Maybe I didn't fully appreciate just
having always been in heavy consumer facing industries, like from
day one of starting my career many years ago, it
was always the customer or the customer or the customer
or the customer and health care, just because of the
historical nature of sort of how it's evolved. That wasn't
(22:26):
always the initial focus. So that mindset is emerging and
growing in healthcare, but just, you know, isn't sort of
second nature today. So I'm surprised every day when we
talk about, you know, issue A, B or C, like
my sort of mindset just goes to certain one direction
and find I have this contrarian view more often than
(22:48):
I expected. But that being said, it's been actually, I
wouldn't say easy, but pleasantly productive to manage that change
through the organization because they very much are open to
it and want to receive it. Just got to keep
it simple.
Stephanie (23:00):
Stupid every time. All right. Thanks, Eric, so much again
for your time and participating in our podcast. I love
the simplicity of his message as far as going back
to basics of branding, elevating the brand and then communicating
at the right time and the right place for the
specific needs and services for an individual patient. Nailed it. Now,
as I mentioned, we wanted to pivot a little bit
(23:21):
and talk to you about some work we're doing around empathy.
A lot of the trends that we've discussed on this
podcast and are disrupting health care like consumerism and convenience
culture are really underpinned by a basic human need, which
is empathy. Now, this isn't new to health care. In fact,
some may argue that it's endemic of all industries. Health
care should be the leader of empathetic practices, and our
(23:42):
care providers in most cases are. And historically, empathy has
been placed on the shoulders of these providers. But in
today's climate, to attract and retain patients, employees, health care
brands can't just rely on a single moment of empathy
to drive satisfaction. Brands have to foster empathy during the
entire customer journey, from marketing to operations. Empathy when deployed
(24:02):
holistically can make the difference between a health care brand
that is sought after and one that has shunned. The
trends we explore in this series are broadly applicable and
being experienced across industries. But we wanted to use this
time to examine how to integrate empathy in the patient
and employee journey to improve experience and outcomes. So over
the next eight weeks we will be highlighting one of
(24:23):
four areas that we believe can be improved by approaching
it with a little more empathy. So our first series
will focus on why consumer demand for the empathetic employer
is here to stay and how it will drive employee
and patient retention. Our second report will be around when
to deploy Web three technologies to foster deeper empathy and
trust between care teams and patients. Third, we'll look into
(24:44):
why health care's diversity and inclusion efforts are missing the
mark and how empathy can bridge the gap. And fourth,
we'll look at how mental health can be addressed at
every step in the patient journey and employee experience to
improve outcomes and satisfaction. So that's a little peek. But
before we dive into that with you, all we ask.
Consumers to define empathy for us wanting to understand from
their perspective what does empathy mean? So we'll let a
(25:06):
few consumers tell us about that in these next clips.
Consumer #1 (25:09):
Empathy is being sensitive to others.
Consumer #2 (25:12):
Empathy is understanding a way that someone else feels.
Consumer #3 (25:17):
Empathy is being able to understand where somebody else is
experiencing something.
Consumer #4 (25:26):
Empathy means to me having the ability to understand and
share what someone else is feeling.
Stephanie (25:32):
Pretty straightforward, right? It seems as though individuals have a
pretty good general understanding of what empathy is, but how
can that play out in our delivery of services? We
had one really interesting consumer experience that we felt was
a clear example of walking in your patient shoes.
Consumer #5 (25:46):
At my dentist office, I gasped the first time I
walked in because each and every patient chair looks out
of a huge window onto a courtyard full of tens
of different bird feeders so you can watch different birds
come and eat while you get your teeth cleaned.
Stephanie (26:05):
So just even looking in the patient chair from this
consumer's perspective, you know that somebody specifically thought about what
they were looking at and put something peaceful and entertaining
to watch for their patients. I love that clip. I
love that somebody took the time to sit in the
patient's chair and think about what they were seeing while
they were at the dentist. I think this is a
(26:25):
quintessential example of walking in your patient shoes and of
an empathy in general. Now, this next voice of the
consumer is one that I chose because it reminded me
of the empathetic roots that health care is grounded in
and that it's not just the patients and prospective patients
that require empathy, but also the community around a patient.
Consumer #6 (26:41):
So I've had a lot of experiences with health care,
and I've actually been in health care, But the best
experience I ever had with health care was after my
dad had a seizure and was unresponsive. And we had
a palliative care doctor who came in and talked to
my family realistically about what his quality of life would
(27:04):
be if he ever did regain consciousness and laid out
what the humane kind of end of life plan would
be there in the hospital. And the best part about
it was this doctor was kind of the opposite of
what all the other doctors were in, that she was
really thinking about quality and not really about just life
(27:28):
at any cost. And the way she communicated that to
us was direct. It was realistic, it was honest, and
it didn't rely on kind of any of these best
case scenario like theories. She told it like it was.
And in a moment of crazy crisis, when the world
(27:52):
kind of felt like it was collapsing, to have someone
who was honest and thoughtful with her communication was just unmatched.
How valuable that was in helping us make the right
decision for our family and for him and know that
we had really considered all the options and that we
didn't feel like anyone was kind of keeping anything away
(28:15):
from us.
Stephanie (28:16):
A sincere thank you to that consumer who shared such
an intimate experience with us. And this is really what
health care is all about and why behaving with empathy
is critical not just among care teams, but across all departments, organizations,
and really industries. It's a universal requirement when interacting with people.
So if you'd like to subscribe to this four part
series on empathy, please subscribe to our blog at Inc.com
(28:37):
or check out our social postings and the episode notes
for links. The four areas that we will cover include
why consumer demand for the empathetic employer is Here to
Stay When to deploy Web three Technologies to Foster Deeper Empathy.
Why Health Care is Diversity and Inclusion efforts are missing
the mark and how empathy can bridge the gap. And finally,
how mental health can be addressed at every step in
the patient journey and employee experience. All right, you guys,
(29:02):
thanks so much for tuning in. If you like what
you heard, please share rate and review on Apple, Spotify
or your favorite podcasting platform. For more content about simplifying
health care, visit Inc.com. That's Inc.com. This show is produced
by Shift Forward Health, The Channel for Change Makers. Subscribe
to Shift Forward Help on your favorite podcast app and
(29:23):
you'll be subscribed to our entire library of shows. See
our full lineup at Shift Forward Health one subscription all
the podcasts you need and it's all for free. We'll
see you next time on what Consumers want.
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