August 31, 2018 • 25 mins
He has been recognized as one of the top ten retail visionaries of his time by Women's Wear Daily. He is the Chairman of a three-generation family business, Mitchell Stores, with locations in Connecticut, New York, California, Washington and Oregon. He is a popular keynote speaker and author of 3 books, the most recent is "Selling the Hug your Customers Way: The Proven Process for Becoming a Passionate and Successful Salesperson for Life". This week on a Closer Look, Chairman of Mitchell Stores Jack Mitchell, discusses his secrets to maintaining loyalty from customers and employees and how to sell anything in both business and life. Host: Arthur Levitt. Producer: Madena Parwana
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a closer look with Arthur Levitt. Arthur Levitt
is a former chairman of the u S Securities and
Exchange Commission, a Bloomberg LP board member, a senior advisor
to the Promontory Financial Group, and a policy adviser to
Goldman Sachs. In nineteen sixty five, Jack Mitchell joined the
(00:21):
family business called Ed Mitchell founded by his parents Ed Normer,
that later became Mitchell's of Westport, Connecticut. Today, Jack is
the chairman of eight highly successful family owned clothing stores
in Westport, Greenwich, Connecticut, Long Island, New York, Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon,
(00:44):
San Francisco, and Palo Alto, California. Under his leadership, the
Mitchell's stores have become well known for employee engagement and
longevity and providing exceptional customer service. In two and nine,
Jack and his brother Bill We're given the first ever
(01:05):
Men's Where Retailing Hall of Fame Award. He's written three books,
Hug Your Customer, Hug Your People, and his most recent
book selling The Hug Your Customer's Way, that describes his
personal approach to customer service that involves a simple, five
(01:25):
stage process that he says anyone can master, he joins me.
Now for a closer look, I should mention the fact
that I am a customer of Mitchell Stores in Westport, Connecticut,
and I'm a personal friend of Jack's. Jack. You start
the new book mentioning the ultimate fraudulent salesman, Harold Hill
(01:49):
of The Music Man. But I also think of a
play that is considered the American classic, Death of a Salesman.
Do you feel that you've spent much of your were
trying to rehabilitate the image of sales and the people
who sell, you know, Arthur, Um, I don't really feel
I've done that in terms of a conscious way. Um.
(02:11):
I'm obviously a very positive and and um passionate seller
or a person actually, and so I've always felt that
that selling is valuable, and selling is really everything in life.
So I suppose I have, you know, in my actions,
try to rehabilitate because so many people regard selling as
(02:32):
something that's either too much or too little, and so
forth and so on. So that's not been the focus
of my life. My life has been, as unit will know,
has been focusing in on customers and and friends and
making people feel great when they're working within our family
business or when they're shopping with us. First step in
your process is making the connection. And you tell the
(02:54):
story about the man who only like blue suits. Tell
us about that. Well, this was really my first major sale.
When I started working with my mom and dad back
in the in the elite sixties, a gentleman came in
and he was a very senior person with General Electric.
I'm sure you even know him, and and I won't
mention his name, but he he only wore blue suits.
(03:15):
And my dad tipped me off as he came in.
He said, you can you see if you can help
this wonderful gentleman as a friend of ours, and and
I sold him very quickly. He wanted two suits, and
I sold him a very quick blue suit, basic navy
blue suit. Sold him a blue pinstriped suit, which are
two parts of the blue uniform in corporate America in
those days. And then as I was getting to know
(03:37):
him and I got to he began to respect me,
and he realized that I was Mitchell, just starting out.
He said, what else might you suggest? And I said,
you know, let me show you something that I have on.
I had on a like a a more you know,
um a sweepie suit on it. It was in Harris
(03:58):
Tweed suits, sort of a weedy looking suit and actually
was in a more word of an olively all of
the blue. Anyway, I said, why don't you just try
it on? So he said, okay, I'll try, thinking he
would wouldn't even do that, but he took his jacket
off and I put this other jacket on and he said,
you know this, this is really interesting. I said, it
(04:19):
sounds like you like it. And he turned to his wife, who,
of course he was always needed her approval, and she said,
you know, I love it. And he said, you know,
Jack reminds me when I was a you know, a
young kid and at the UK. In the UK, this
was what we wore when I went to a boarding school.
And I said, well, then maybe you can wear it
sometimes when you want a little informal look. And he said, okay, great,
(04:41):
I'll take it. And all of a sudden I realized
that selling was really fun, and I realized that that
I could make suggestions that what he wanted. I tried to.
It took a long time, but longer than we have now,
but but it was my first really important sale. And
then of course I put on furnishing shirt sties and
all the shoes and so forth that matched the entire
(05:02):
Once he got into buying mood, even with me as
a young seller, he enjoyed it, and from then on
it's submitted our relationship that lasted many many years after.
You know, prejudge customers by looks, but you do write
about tells that you teach your salespeople look for what
are the tells? Well, the tells can be non verbal, obviously,
(05:25):
I mean he was when you're when you're greeting customers
and connecting with customers, you don't necessarily look on what
they're wearing. That's a that's a misnomer. But you you
do look and see. You know, listening is most important.
Um watching and listening, do you know you get there
tells or their names. We try to introduce ourselves on
Jack Mitchell, you say I'm Martha Levin and so forth.
(05:47):
Then you begin to get their names. Is it is
it John or Jack? You can you can see that
are they wearing a wedding ring? That's obviously they're married,
and maybe there's some something that they can buy for
their wife, or there's house, and you begin to listen
about all those particular things. And then you listen, of course,
and you watch their non verbal there did they frown?
(06:09):
Did they smiled? I mean you and I always kid
you know about our smiles. When you're smiling, it's fine.
All of a sudden you're looking at your watch. It
says to me that you're in a hurry. You have
a golf date or something, and you have to hurry
out of the store. So there are things like that
that you can pick up nonverbally, and then of course
you can you put When you start looking, you start
people start asking questions, and and that's the most important part.
(06:32):
You begin to Listening is the most important skill I
believe in selling. And you listen not only with your ears,
but you listen with your eyes, and those tells pop
up all the time. Jack, you write about Ginger Kermian,
a great woman's clothing seller at Richard's, and what she
calls her gingerisms. What are they and why did you
(06:53):
include her in the book and what makes her such
a great salesperson? Well? I put the gingerisms in the
book with the concept Arthur, that that everyone sells differently,
but she sells with her gingerisms. And you know, Frank
might have Frank is ums and and and Jay may
have jays ms. But but Ginger has won a couple
(07:14):
of them that she always she she obviously well if
she if she's wearing red or red for her is
a color that she believes is getting your own way,
a power kind of a color. And so when she
has a difficult customer that she knows is coming in
by appointment, and she wants to make sure that that
(07:35):
customer gets her advice and counsel, and she she knows her, well,
she'll put on red. Vice versa, when if this person
is moving into a more senior position and needs needs
of like a power dress or a power outfit, she
likes to put red on them. She may not say
that to the customers, but that's what she does. Another
(07:55):
fund gingerism is you know people say, well, I don't
really need this. Well, Ginger says, look, we never speak
of need because you know you may not need it,
but do you like it? Is it's something that you
would like to have in your wardrobe. So I put
this in the book because everyone everyone sells differently. But
(08:16):
as we begin to talk here, you know I do
have this whole process of selling. This is through the
different processes from the beginning, you know, meeting and greeting
the customers and connecting and through the So that's that's
everyone's else differently, but Ginger sells this way and she's
a fabulous seller. You tried to see if you could
devise a test to predict if a potential employee would
(08:38):
be an outstanding seller. Did that work? You know? We
tried that with Zenia years ago. We did a lot
of experimentation, and we could not come up with a
grid that said that you have to have this type
of a personality or that pipe or personality. I know
one of the things you and I have talked about
is this idea of being an introvert. You think, an
(08:59):
introverted thinker, not an introvert, but an introverted thinker might
not be a great salesperson because you obviously have to
talk in the selling process. But I we I have
found over my career in in um working in almost
sixty years in our family business, that sometimes the introverted
thinkers like my wife and candidly even like yourself to
(09:21):
a degree. It's not that you're an introvert, but you
you get you are listening, and then when you come
up with something, you you then say what you feel,
and that is respect and honesty with the particular customers.
So I think that so many times people get neglected
and don't are not hired because they're not talkers. And
(09:43):
talking sometimes you can get you in trouble and it's
not the way. That's the old seller, you know, that's
right here in River City. I have your attention. I
can deal with the trouble, friends, with a wave of
my hand, this very hand. Please conserve me if you will.
I'm Professor Harold Guild and I'm here to organize the
River City boys. Man. Oh think my friends, how can
(10:07):
any cool table? Everyone? Ultimate fraudulent salesman Harold Hill of
the Music Man. If the first rule of selling is
you have to be there? How does that work on
the internet? What's your digital hug? Our digital hug is
trying very hard to personalize relationships if you go online,
(10:28):
and I hope everyone that's listening would go on Mitchell's
dot com and take a look at it. Because what
we're trying to do there is to allow the customer,
if if if if the customer or the person going
online is a customer, then it would immediately if you
gave it permission, you would put your sales associate would
pop up up, picture would pop up visually as the
(10:50):
person that you normally deal with, and if you if
you purchase something or have an inquiry about something, that
particular person would get to instantly get an email saying
that you're interested in whatever whatever you have clicked. So
there's ways in which we're trying very hard to keep
the personalization of the relationships that we have. Now, if
(11:12):
you're someone that has never shopped with us, then then
we we we we try to send you a nice
emails and we try to get your phone number so
that we can follow up and we can we can
service you well that way, so that we can go
back and forth in terms of the visual side and
the online thing method of buying obviously, which is what
we have, but we're still fundamentally a bricks and mortar
(11:34):
channel of distribution. That's really where our business remains, even
even in a day and age where so many people
are going online. You're right, never ever say may I
help you? Or can I help you, which you hear
at every department story ever said foot in. Uh, why
do you tell your salespeople not to say that? Because
(11:58):
if if you you're greeting someone and say may I
help you? Nine times out of ten they'll say no,
just looking, they're just so that's just the response because
you need to give this the the customer an opportunity
to feel comfortable within your environment. It's like if you
you say good morning, or you say you know, how
(12:20):
are you how are you feeling today? Or or are
you looking for a tie? If you're having to see
the person in the tide department or address department, Oh,
you're looking for address, you get something going as if
you were you were talking to a friend summary that
was coming into your home. If you came into a home,
you wouldn't say may I help you? He would say
welcome to my home or welcome that that's what we
(12:42):
want him to have. Or you just say hello. I
like to say hello rather than sometimes high. And then
they'll say how how are you doing today? And I
always say I feel great because nine times out of
ten I feel great, and then they put them in
a positive position. Jack, would you mention the fact that
all the first time customers you get a thirty return rate,
(13:06):
and how does that compare to other businesses such as yours.
I think it compares very well, if not better than most.
It's it's a number that that the data is very
Most companies and most businesses like ours, they don't keep
data on like we do. I mean, data is one
of our fundamental values in our family business. Why we
(13:28):
have been successful. We use data. Customers at the center
of the universe. We build relationships, so we use we
use data to enhance all of that. So when we
measure our customer coming back, UM, I believe is a
is a reasonably high number. It sounds low, but it
is definitely um somebody coming back and becoming a good
(13:49):
customer and a friend is something that we share. So UM,
I don't have comparatable data on that answer, but I
think it's it's a it's a reasonably good number. What
percentage of your business is online? It's only about three
or four percent right now, so it's it's only a
small part, but it's growing, like you know, fifty six
(14:09):
every year for every month. But it's it's what's a
growing part of our business. We obviously are not getting
that growth that kind of percentage for we're getting We
are getting growth in our in our in all of
our stores. You know, we have eight stores throughout the
country and so but it's a small percentage. We still
want that experience. Every single time a customer comes in
(14:29):
our store. We want them to have fun and enjoy
it and have a shopping experience that they lead smiling
as they walk. When we walk the customer to the
door or even to their car, we wanted to be
feel happy. That's what That's really what our business remains
and I'm optimistic that it will remain that way. The
new catchword in retail is the customer experience. The young
(14:50):
people won't go into a store unless it's instagram worthy
or it has an entertainment factor. And your judgment, is
this a fad or the future of reach out? And
do you feel the pressure to provide an experience beyond
the personal service where you excel Well, I think the
personal service is an experience. And if you have a
(15:11):
different experience or a consistently high valued experience every time
you come in again, whether it's a cup of coffee,
or whether it's getting somebody an extra extra or let's
say tickets to the to the Yankee game. Or the
Mets game, or or going to a show that you
can't get into, or because we know everybody in the community,
(15:31):
we can get you into a to a restaurant, or
if all of a sudden you get ill and we
know the people, whether it be you know what hospital
you need to go to a special doctor. We we've
lived in these communities here and as we've acquired these
stores San Francisco, Palo Alto, we know the people in
the community because we're very one of the big secrets
(15:52):
business secret to you, but we're part of the community.
We live in these communities and we give back to
the community. We have many many charitable of in our
stores and we give back to the community that way
because we're part of the community and so people know
us for all of that. And that's an experience when
you come to one of our neurin Far benefits or
you know, we raise a million two million dollars in
(16:14):
some of these these these charity events that we do
within the stores, and the people become they know, they
know where we are, they know they know how to
get to us, they know where to park, they know
where the men's room is, and they know they know
not only their sales associate, but they know my brother
and myself or there are nine Mitchells in our family business.
And when we try to be personal, and that's the experience.
(16:36):
You don't get that in many stores, are many restaurants,
you just don't. It just doesn't happen. And that's what
how we've been able to grow one customer at a time,
putting the customers as a center of the universe. And
you've obviously studied businesses far and wide. You mentioned them
in your books. Tell me about a business that you
(16:56):
see that you'd love to turn around. Well, are so
there are? There are many things businesses that I think
could use the hugging culture. By the way, before I
forget about you know what, I know that hugging is
a metaphor. I want to make sure everyone understands that,
especially in this day and age with what it's all
going on. The hug is any actor deed that says, Wow,
these folks really care about me as a real person. Um,
(17:19):
but I think, you know, let's say, bookstores. I mean
we're talking about my books, and I appreciate that a lot.
I mean, you can buy my book on Amazon, sure,
but where were the great bookstores going, whereas Barnes and Noble,
whereas what happened to borders these stores could, I believe
if they truly treated their customers as their friends, if
they really um, they really knew that. I have, you know,
(17:42):
seven grandchildren. I would love to give them the new
books every year and for their birthdays, for their for
their for Christmas and so forth. I used to do
that with a bookstore, but their bookstore went out of business.
So I don't have anybody recommending books. But all my
cadual grandchildren, they have different interests. One has diving, so
I know what the best book on diving is, but
(18:03):
this book store would know that. A good book store anyway,
Those are the kinds of things I think I could
and using data some of the bookstores, don't you let
me look at Amazon. That's one of their real strengths
is using data to personalize the business. That's what we
use data to personalize, not only to measure things. Jack.
So the sale is closed, what's the kiss goodbye you
(18:27):
right about? And the permission to reconnect? The kiss goodbye
is to make when the customer has finished and deciding
what he or she wants to buy and you bring
them to the customer service desk to have the sale
being recorded. We want to make sure that that lasting
and that last impression as well as the first impression
that happened when they first when we first met, is
(18:48):
a positive one, and that that that hopefully tease up
the idea of them coming back to see you. So
you want to stay with that customer, you want to
you want to ask some questions about them. You you
you want to make sure that you have their phone
number in case there's anything that we need to know
about them, where there's something happens to the government or
we get it. Let's say we want to we want
to kiss something goodbye with with with giving. They say
(19:11):
they want the alterations done in a week, but we
can probably get it done into it three days and
then we can call them with an extra one for
good measure as well as the kissing them and good bye.
So we want to make that last impression so valuable,
so positive as if you were beginning to build a
relationship as a friend. And then if in our stores
(19:32):
and some of them has one in Westport where I
happened to be, now you can walk them right to
the door and sometimes if it's a nice day, you
can even walk them right to their car. And as
they brought something bags that say it's holiday season, it's
anaker or Christmas, you could take their bags and take them.
How many star stores do you know these days that
taken open the trunk and put them in there. Those
(19:53):
are the kind of things we like to do, and
those are the things that we try to do to
make that experience a positive, lasting one as if they
were part of our family. Tell me of any experience
where the hugging didn't pay off. Once in a long while,
it doesn't pay off. And when it doesn't pay off
(20:13):
and you make it, it is generally because you've made
a mistake. You have to apologize and you have to
find out why the person was unhappy with what the
services that you're providing, and and then you have to listen.
Maybe maybe you were the person was too to aggressive
with something but showed them something that they didn't feel
was a proposed Maybe maybe the alteration wasn't quite correct.
(20:36):
Maybe maybe somebody overpromised a delivery on something and couldn't
couldn't be done. So you have to apologize very much,
and then you have to do something about it. You
have to you have to correct the mistake, you have
to be candid about it, and and try to hug
them even more in terms of those extra little things
that can be done when when you when people do
(20:57):
make mistakes, you have to be candid and honest and
off entic and every experience and there there are very
very few people that don't understand that, especially if you
can and then if you need to have one of
the owners come over. Generally speaking, there's always an owner
mitchell around or a manager that can help out. As
we're very much part of a team, so we're all
working together to service the customer and make the customer
(21:19):
feel great. If they're not feeling great, then we have
to try to make that happen. Write them a nice
note later if you'll learn later we we don't try
to write notes with a real ink pen with a
real ink Not only an email, we try to find
out by the way how they like to communicate, whether
they like texting or emailing or or notes, but but
a nice personal note with a real link pen saying
(21:41):
you're sorry and you apologize that the hug that the
experience wasn't up to your satisfaction is what we try
to do, but very well, you know, it doesn't happen
a lot, but one it does. That's what we try
to do and try to train and educate our associates
to be that way. Does your system of hugging customer
is only work with higher end merchandise and customers who
(22:05):
pay full retail and expect a high level of personal service.
I think I think it works better probably in high
end businesses, but I think anyone that wants, any business
that wants to really adopt the hugging culture. It's a
mindset and can be done. I mean here asked earlier
(22:26):
about businesses that you'd like to try to see if
you could help or turn around. I mean, I would
love to to try to try to turn around a large,
large store in terms of there are things you can
do like smiling, can and be happy, and but you
have to have of course, you have to hug your
your people, hug your associates, so then they hug the customers.
So if that's happens, I think you can do that
(22:47):
even if they're playing paid minimum wager a little bit
more than a minimum, which there are things you can
do to keep a team happy and those kinds of
things I think would definitely work. When you go shopping.
What other stores impress you with their customers service? Who
else is doing it right? You know, that's a hard
one these days. I mean, I think some of the
(23:09):
some of the larger stores have lost some of their
their um personal sort. That's what we hear from customers.
That's one of the reasons why our first time customers
candidly are growing much more dramatically in terms of numbers
and dollars than they have over the years. Um. But
I think some of the other people, you know, you
take I mean, I think Dorstrom still does a very
(23:30):
good job. But I think again it's harder when you
have the big stores and you have many different big
stores to give that one on one service, and they
become very corporate rather than than than family oriented. Um
But I think, you know, let's just take another one.
I mean, I think Starbucks is trying to do that,
and I think they've done in many different of their
(23:51):
stores have done a reasonably good job. Um. I also
think that you know, people like Southwest Airlines do a
very good job of trying to keep make sure that
you feel good when you enter the plane. And when
you get off the plane and so forth, and little
things that they try to do. But I it's a rare.
I don't think there are that many people that are
(24:12):
really I mean, some of the brokerage firms are trying
to do that obviously. I mean as I think, you know,
I do motivational speaking. I've done done a number of things.
Right now, I'm working doing motivational speaking for Merrill Lynch,
and I think that you know, we're trying to give
their trying to give the whole hugging culture, keep keeping
that that personalization with their with their sales associates and
(24:32):
their and their wealth managers. And other brokers firms are
trying to do the same thing because they're competing, you know,
with people that are that that give services perhaps for less,
like like Amazon does, and some of the than some
of the big department stores. He's the chairman of Mitchell's Stores,
one of the most successful small businesses in the nation,
(24:54):
known for bringing a warm human touch to the often cold,
bottom line world of business. His philosophy of customer service
can be found in the most recent of his three books,
selling The Hug Your Customers Way, The Proven process for
becoming a passionate and successful salesperson for life. Jack Mitchell,
(25:18):
thanks for joining us. By the way, if you have
comments about the program or ideas for topics, email me
at a Closer Look at Bloomberg dot net. That's a
closer look one word at Bloomberg dot net and follow
me on Twitter at Arthur Levin one word. This is
a closer Look with Arthur Levin.
This is a closer look with Arthur Levitt. Arthur Levitt
is a former chairman of the u S Securities and
Exchange Commission, a Bloomberg LP board member, a senior advisor
to the Promontory Financial Group, and a policy adviser to
Goldman Sachs. In nineteen sixty five, Jack Mitchell joined the
(00:21):
family business called Ed Mitchell founded by his parents Ed Normer,
that later became Mitchell's of Westport, Connecticut. Today, Jack is
the chairman of eight highly successful family owned clothing stores
in Westport, Greenwich, Connecticut, Long Island, New York, Seattle, Washington, Portland, Oregon,
(00:44):
San Francisco, and Palo Alto, California. Under his leadership, the
Mitchell's stores have become well known for employee engagement and
longevity and providing exceptional customer service. In two and nine,
Jack and his brother Bill We're given the first ever
(01:05):
Men's Where Retailing Hall of Fame Award. He's written three books,
Hug Your Customer, Hug Your People, and his most recent
book selling The Hug Your Customer's Way, that describes his
personal approach to customer service that involves a simple, five
(01:25):
stage process that he says anyone can master, he joins me.
Now for a closer look, I should mention the fact
that I am a customer of Mitchell Stores in Westport, Connecticut,
and I'm a personal friend of Jack's. Jack. You start
the new book mentioning the ultimate fraudulent salesman, Harold Hill
(01:49):
of The Music Man. But I also think of a
play that is considered the American classic, Death of a Salesman.
Do you feel that you've spent much of your were
trying to rehabilitate the image of sales and the people
who sell, you know, Arthur, Um, I don't really feel
I've done that in terms of a conscious way. Um.
(02:11):
I'm obviously a very positive and and um passionate seller
or a person actually, and so I've always felt that
that selling is valuable, and selling is really everything in life.
So I suppose I have, you know, in my actions,
try to rehabilitate because so many people regard selling as
(02:32):
something that's either too much or too little, and so
forth and so on. So that's not been the focus
of my life. My life has been, as unit will know,
has been focusing in on customers and and friends and
making people feel great when they're working within our family
business or when they're shopping with us. First step in
your process is making the connection. And you tell the
(02:54):
story about the man who only like blue suits. Tell
us about that. Well, this was really my first major sale.
When I started working with my mom and dad back
in the in the elite sixties, a gentleman came in
and he was a very senior person with General Electric.
I'm sure you even know him, and and I won't
mention his name, but he he only wore blue suits.
(03:15):
And my dad tipped me off as he came in.
He said, you can you see if you can help
this wonderful gentleman as a friend of ours, and and
I sold him very quickly. He wanted two suits, and
I sold him a very quick blue suit, basic navy
blue suit. Sold him a blue pinstriped suit, which are
two parts of the blue uniform in corporate America in
those days. And then as I was getting to know
(03:37):
him and I got to he began to respect me,
and he realized that I was Mitchell, just starting out.
He said, what else might you suggest? And I said,
you know, let me show you something that I have on.
I had on a like a a more you know,
um a sweepie suit on it. It was in Harris
(03:58):
Tweed suits, sort of a weedy looking suit and actually
was in a more word of an olively all of
the blue. Anyway, I said, why don't you just try
it on? So he said, okay, I'll try, thinking he
would wouldn't even do that, but he took his jacket
off and I put this other jacket on and he said,
you know this, this is really interesting. I said, it
(04:19):
sounds like you like it. And he turned to his wife, who,
of course he was always needed her approval, and she said,
you know, I love it. And he said, you know,
Jack reminds me when I was a you know, a
young kid and at the UK. In the UK, this
was what we wore when I went to a boarding school.
And I said, well, then maybe you can wear it
sometimes when you want a little informal look. And he said, okay, great,
(04:41):
I'll take it. And all of a sudden I realized
that selling was really fun, and I realized that that
I could make suggestions that what he wanted. I tried to.
It took a long time, but longer than we have now,
but but it was my first really important sale. And
then of course I put on furnishing shirt sties and
all the shoes and so forth that matched the entire
(05:02):
Once he got into buying mood, even with me as
a young seller, he enjoyed it, and from then on
it's submitted our relationship that lasted many many years after.
You know, prejudge customers by looks, but you do write
about tells that you teach your salespeople look for what
are the tells? Well, the tells can be non verbal, obviously,
(05:25):
I mean he was when you're when you're greeting customers
and connecting with customers, you don't necessarily look on what
they're wearing. That's a that's a misnomer. But you you
do look and see. You know, listening is most important.
Um watching and listening, do you know you get there
tells or their names. We try to introduce ourselves on
Jack Mitchell, you say I'm Martha Levin and so forth.
(05:47):
Then you begin to get their names. Is it is
it John or Jack? You can you can see that
are they wearing a wedding ring? That's obviously they're married,
and maybe there's some something that they can buy for
their wife, or there's house, and you begin to listen
about all those particular things. And then you listen, of course,
and you watch their non verbal there did they frown?
(06:09):
Did they smiled? I mean you and I always kid
you know about our smiles. When you're smiling, it's fine.
All of a sudden you're looking at your watch. It
says to me that you're in a hurry. You have
a golf date or something, and you have to hurry
out of the store. So there are things like that
that you can pick up nonverbally, and then of course
you can you put When you start looking, you start
people start asking questions, and and that's the most important part.
(06:32):
You begin to Listening is the most important skill I
believe in selling. And you listen not only with your ears,
but you listen with your eyes, and those tells pop
up all the time. Jack, you write about Ginger Kermian,
a great woman's clothing seller at Richard's, and what she
calls her gingerisms. What are they and why did you
(06:53):
include her in the book and what makes her such
a great salesperson? Well? I put the gingerisms in the
book with the concept Arthur, that that everyone sells differently,
but she sells with her gingerisms. And you know, Frank
might have Frank is ums and and and Jay may
have jays ms. But but Ginger has won a couple
(07:14):
of them that she always she she obviously well if
she if she's wearing red or red for her is
a color that she believes is getting your own way,
a power kind of a color. And so when she
has a difficult customer that she knows is coming in
by appointment, and she wants to make sure that that
(07:35):
customer gets her advice and counsel, and she she knows her, well,
she'll put on red. Vice versa, when if this person
is moving into a more senior position and needs needs
of like a power dress or a power outfit, she
likes to put red on them. She may not say
that to the customers, but that's what she does. Another
(07:55):
fund gingerism is you know people say, well, I don't
really need this. Well, Ginger says, look, we never speak
of need because you know you may not need it,
but do you like it? Is it's something that you
would like to have in your wardrobe. So I put
this in the book because everyone everyone sells differently. But
(08:16):
as we begin to talk here, you know I do
have this whole process of selling. This is through the
different processes from the beginning, you know, meeting and greeting
the customers and connecting and through the So that's that's
everyone's else differently, but Ginger sells this way and she's
a fabulous seller. You tried to see if you could
devise a test to predict if a potential employee would
(08:38):
be an outstanding seller. Did that work? You know? We
tried that with Zenia years ago. We did a lot
of experimentation, and we could not come up with a
grid that said that you have to have this type
of a personality or that pipe or personality. I know
one of the things you and I have talked about
is this idea of being an introvert. You think, an
(08:59):
introverted thinker, not an introvert, but an introverted thinker might
not be a great salesperson because you obviously have to
talk in the selling process. But I we I have
found over my career in in um working in almost
sixty years in our family business, that sometimes the introverted
thinkers like my wife and candidly even like yourself to
(09:21):
a degree. It's not that you're an introvert, but you
you get you are listening, and then when you come
up with something, you you then say what you feel,
and that is respect and honesty with the particular customers.
So I think that so many times people get neglected
and don't are not hired because they're not talkers. And
(09:43):
talking sometimes you can get you in trouble and it's
not the way. That's the old seller, you know, that's
right here in River City. I have your attention. I
can deal with the trouble, friends, with a wave of
my hand, this very hand. Please conserve me if you will.
I'm Professor Harold Guild and I'm here to organize the
River City boys. Man. Oh think my friends, how can
(10:07):
any cool table? Everyone? Ultimate fraudulent salesman Harold Hill of
the Music Man. If the first rule of selling is
you have to be there? How does that work on
the internet? What's your digital hug? Our digital hug is
trying very hard to personalize relationships if you go online,
(10:28):
and I hope everyone that's listening would go on Mitchell's
dot com and take a look at it. Because what
we're trying to do there is to allow the customer,
if if if if the customer or the person going
online is a customer, then it would immediately if you
gave it permission, you would put your sales associate would
pop up up, picture would pop up visually as the
(10:50):
person that you normally deal with, and if you if
you purchase something or have an inquiry about something, that
particular person would get to instantly get an email saying
that you're interested in whatever whatever you have clicked. So
there's ways in which we're trying very hard to keep
the personalization of the relationships that we have. Now, if
(11:12):
you're someone that has never shopped with us, then then
we we we we try to send you a nice
emails and we try to get your phone number so
that we can follow up and we can we can
service you well that way, so that we can go
back and forth in terms of the visual side and
the online thing method of buying obviously, which is what
we have, but we're still fundamentally a bricks and mortar
(11:34):
channel of distribution. That's really where our business remains, even
even in a day and age where so many people
are going online. You're right, never ever say may I
help you? Or can I help you, which you hear
at every department story ever said foot in. Uh, why
do you tell your salespeople not to say that? Because
(11:58):
if if you you're greeting someone and say may I
help you? Nine times out of ten they'll say no,
just looking, they're just so that's just the response because
you need to give this the the customer an opportunity
to feel comfortable within your environment. It's like if you
you say good morning, or you say you know, how
(12:20):
are you how are you feeling today? Or or are
you looking for a tie? If you're having to see
the person in the tide department or address department, Oh,
you're looking for address, you get something going as if
you were you were talking to a friend summary that
was coming into your home. If you came into a home,
you wouldn't say may I help you? He would say
welcome to my home or welcome that that's what we
(12:42):
want him to have. Or you just say hello. I
like to say hello rather than sometimes high. And then
they'll say how how are you doing today? And I
always say I feel great because nine times out of
ten I feel great, and then they put them in
a positive position. Jack, would you mention the fact that
all the first time customers you get a thirty return rate,
(13:06):
and how does that compare to other businesses such as yours.
I think it compares very well, if not better than most.
It's it's a number that that the data is very
Most companies and most businesses like ours, they don't keep
data on like we do. I mean, data is one
of our fundamental values in our family business. Why we
(13:28):
have been successful. We use data. Customers at the center
of the universe. We build relationships, so we use we
use data to enhance all of that. So when we
measure our customer coming back, UM, I believe is a
is a reasonably high number. It sounds low, but it
is definitely um somebody coming back and becoming a good
(13:49):
customer and a friend is something that we share. So UM,
I don't have comparatable data on that answer, but I
think it's it's a it's a reasonably good number. What
percentage of your business is online? It's only about three
or four percent right now, so it's it's only a
small part, but it's growing, like you know, fifty six
(14:09):
every year for every month. But it's it's what's a
growing part of our business. We obviously are not getting
that growth that kind of percentage for we're getting We
are getting growth in our in our in all of
our stores. You know, we have eight stores throughout the
country and so but it's a small percentage. We still
want that experience. Every single time a customer comes in
(14:29):
our store. We want them to have fun and enjoy
it and have a shopping experience that they lead smiling
as they walk. When we walk the customer to the
door or even to their car, we wanted to be
feel happy. That's what That's really what our business remains
and I'm optimistic that it will remain that way. The
new catchword in retail is the customer experience. The young
(14:50):
people won't go into a store unless it's instagram worthy
or it has an entertainment factor. And your judgment, is
this a fad or the future of reach out? And
do you feel the pressure to provide an experience beyond
the personal service where you excel Well, I think the
personal service is an experience. And if you have a
(15:11):
different experience or a consistently high valued experience every time
you come in again, whether it's a cup of coffee,
or whether it's getting somebody an extra extra or let's
say tickets to the to the Yankee game. Or the
Mets game, or or going to a show that you
can't get into, or because we know everybody in the community,
(15:31):
we can get you into a to a restaurant, or
if all of a sudden you get ill and we
know the people, whether it be you know what hospital
you need to go to a special doctor. We we've
lived in these communities here and as we've acquired these
stores San Francisco, Palo Alto, we know the people in
the community because we're very one of the big secrets
(15:52):
business secret to you, but we're part of the community.
We live in these communities and we give back to
the community. We have many many charitable of in our
stores and we give back to the community that way
because we're part of the community and so people know
us for all of that. And that's an experience when
you come to one of our neurin Far benefits or
you know, we raise a million two million dollars in
(16:14):
some of these these these charity events that we do
within the stores, and the people become they know, they
know where we are, they know they know how to
get to us, they know where to park, they know
where the men's room is, and they know they know
not only their sales associate, but they know my brother
and myself or there are nine Mitchells in our family business.
And when we try to be personal, and that's the experience.
(16:36):
You don't get that in many stores, are many restaurants,
you just don't. It just doesn't happen. And that's what
how we've been able to grow one customer at a time,
putting the customers as a center of the universe. And
you've obviously studied businesses far and wide. You mentioned them
in your books. Tell me about a business that you
(16:56):
see that you'd love to turn around. Well, are so
there are? There are many things businesses that I think
could use the hugging culture. By the way, before I
forget about you know what, I know that hugging is
a metaphor. I want to make sure everyone understands that,
especially in this day and age with what it's all
going on. The hug is any actor deed that says, Wow,
these folks really care about me as a real person. Um,
(17:19):
but I think, you know, let's say, bookstores. I mean
we're talking about my books, and I appreciate that a lot.
I mean, you can buy my book on Amazon, sure,
but where were the great bookstores going, whereas Barnes and Noble,
whereas what happened to borders these stores could, I believe
if they truly treated their customers as their friends, if
they really um, they really knew that. I have, you know,
(17:42):
seven grandchildren. I would love to give them the new
books every year and for their birthdays, for their for
their for Christmas and so forth. I used to do
that with a bookstore, but their bookstore went out of business.
So I don't have anybody recommending books. But all my
cadual grandchildren, they have different interests. One has diving, so
I know what the best book on diving is, but
(18:03):
this book store would know that. A good book store anyway,
Those are the kinds of things I think I could
and using data some of the bookstores, don't you let
me look at Amazon. That's one of their real strengths
is using data to personalize the business. That's what we
use data to personalize, not only to measure things. Jack.
So the sale is closed, what's the kiss goodbye you
(18:27):
right about? And the permission to reconnect? The kiss goodbye
is to make when the customer has finished and deciding
what he or she wants to buy and you bring
them to the customer service desk to have the sale
being recorded. We want to make sure that that lasting
and that last impression as well as the first impression
that happened when they first when we first met, is
(18:48):
a positive one, and that that that hopefully tease up
the idea of them coming back to see you. So
you want to stay with that customer, you want to
you want to ask some questions about them. You you
you want to make sure that you have their phone
number in case there's anything that we need to know
about them, where there's something happens to the government or
we get it. Let's say we want to we want
to kiss something goodbye with with with giving. They say
(19:11):
they want the alterations done in a week, but we
can probably get it done into it three days and
then we can call them with an extra one for
good measure as well as the kissing them and good bye.
So we want to make that last impression so valuable,
so positive as if you were beginning to build a
relationship as a friend. And then if in our stores
(19:32):
and some of them has one in Westport where I
happened to be, now you can walk them right to
the door and sometimes if it's a nice day, you
can even walk them right to their car. And as
they brought something bags that say it's holiday season, it's
anaker or Christmas, you could take their bags and take them.
How many star stores do you know these days that
taken open the trunk and put them in there. Those
(19:53):
are the kind of things we like to do, and
those are the things that we try to do to
make that experience a positive, lasting one as if they
were part of our family. Tell me of any experience
where the hugging didn't pay off. Once in a long while,
it doesn't pay off. And when it doesn't pay off
(20:13):
and you make it, it is generally because you've made
a mistake. You have to apologize and you have to
find out why the person was unhappy with what the
services that you're providing, and and then you have to listen.
Maybe maybe you were the person was too to aggressive
with something but showed them something that they didn't feel
was a proposed Maybe maybe the alteration wasn't quite correct.
(20:36):
Maybe maybe somebody overpromised a delivery on something and couldn't
couldn't be done. So you have to apologize very much,
and then you have to do something about it. You
have to you have to correct the mistake, you have
to be candid about it, and and try to hug
them even more in terms of those extra little things
that can be done when when you when people do
(20:57):
make mistakes, you have to be candid and honest and
off entic and every experience and there there are very
very few people that don't understand that, especially if you
can and then if you need to have one of
the owners come over. Generally speaking, there's always an owner
mitchell around or a manager that can help out. As
we're very much part of a team, so we're all
working together to service the customer and make the customer
(21:19):
feel great. If they're not feeling great, then we have
to try to make that happen. Write them a nice
note later if you'll learn later we we don't try
to write notes with a real ink pen with a
real ink Not only an email, we try to find
out by the way how they like to communicate, whether
they like texting or emailing or or notes, but but
a nice personal note with a real link pen saying
(21:41):
you're sorry and you apologize that the hug that the
experience wasn't up to your satisfaction is what we try
to do, but very well, you know, it doesn't happen
a lot, but one it does. That's what we try
to do and try to train and educate our associates
to be that way. Does your system of hugging customer
is only work with higher end merchandise and customers who
(22:05):
pay full retail and expect a high level of personal service.
I think I think it works better probably in high
end businesses, but I think anyone that wants, any business
that wants to really adopt the hugging culture. It's a
mindset and can be done. I mean here asked earlier
(22:26):
about businesses that you'd like to try to see if
you could help or turn around. I mean, I would
love to to try to try to turn around a large,
large store in terms of there are things you can
do like smiling, can and be happy, and but you
have to have of course, you have to hug your
your people, hug your associates, so then they hug the customers.
So if that's happens, I think you can do that
(22:47):
even if they're playing paid minimum wager a little bit
more than a minimum, which there are things you can
do to keep a team happy and those kinds of
things I think would definitely work. When you go shopping.
What other stores impress you with their customers service? Who
else is doing it right? You know, that's a hard
one these days. I mean, I think some of the
(23:09):
some of the larger stores have lost some of their
their um personal sort. That's what we hear from customers.
That's one of the reasons why our first time customers
candidly are growing much more dramatically in terms of numbers
and dollars than they have over the years. Um. But
I think some of the other people, you know, you
take I mean, I think Dorstrom still does a very
(23:30):
good job. But I think again it's harder when you
have the big stores and you have many different big
stores to give that one on one service, and they
become very corporate rather than than than family oriented. Um
But I think, you know, let's just take another one.
I mean, I think Starbucks is trying to do that,
and I think they've done in many different of their
(23:51):
stores have done a reasonably good job. Um. I also
think that you know, people like Southwest Airlines do a
very good job of trying to keep make sure that
you feel good when you enter the plane. And when
you get off the plane and so forth, and little
things that they try to do. But I it's a rare.
I don't think there are that many people that are
(24:12):
really I mean, some of the brokerage firms are trying
to do that obviously. I mean as I think, you know,
I do motivational speaking. I've done done a number of things.
Right now, I'm working doing motivational speaking for Merrill Lynch,
and I think that you know, we're trying to give
their trying to give the whole hugging culture, keep keeping
that that personalization with their with their sales associates and
(24:32):
their and their wealth managers. And other brokers firms are
trying to do the same thing because they're competing, you know,
with people that are that that give services perhaps for less,
like like Amazon does, and some of the than some
of the big department stores. He's the chairman of Mitchell's Stores,
one of the most successful small businesses in the nation,
(24:54):
known for bringing a warm human touch to the often cold,
bottom line world of business. His philosophy of customer service
can be found in the most recent of his three books,
selling The Hug Your Customers Way, The Proven process for
becoming a passionate and successful salesperson for life. Jack Mitchell,
(25:18):
thanks for joining us. By the way, if you have
comments about the program or ideas for topics, email me
at a Closer Look at Bloomberg dot net. That's a
closer look one word at Bloomberg dot net and follow
me on Twitter at Arthur Levin one word. This is
a closer Look with Arthur Levin.
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