June 13, 2025 • 23 mins
Ahead of next week’s G-7 Summit in Calgary, Canada, Bloomberg Weekend Editor-at-Large Mishal Husain sat down for an exclusive interview with British Prime Minister Kier Starmer.
The wide-ranging conversation touched on Israel’s ongoing strikes on Iran’s nuclear facilities, the US-UK trade agreement, defense spending and more.
Read more: Starmer Says UK Has ‘Grave Concerns’ on Iran Nuclear Program
Starmer Signals Support for 3.5% NATO Aim With Talks on Date
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from
Bloomberg News.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
On the show, we're bringing you a special conversation in full.
Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, sits
down with Bloomberg's Michelle Hussein at ten Downing Street. Michelle
is editor at large for Bloomberg Weekend, and the interview
took place on Friday, hours after Israel launched an attack
on Iran, striking what Prime Minister Benjamin Nett and Yahoo
described as the heart of its nuclear enrichment program, and
(00:34):
Starmer is preparing to travel to Canada for a meeting
of the G seven. It covered a lot of ground,
including defense spending, the path forward for Ukraine, and the
UK's trade talks with the US, but their conversation started
with the latest developments in the Middle East. Here's Michelle
Hussein's interview with UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Prime Minister, just as you're about to leave for the
G seven, Israel's carried out what it describes as a
preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear target. It's two hundred fighter jets,
more than three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes.
Would you say Israel is justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
grave concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
and we absolutely recognize as Roel's right to self defense.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
We the UK were not evolved in this attack.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
And we're urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate
as the way forward here, and obviously we're talking to
allies about that. We have been this week. We are
intensively talking to allies today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has
something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
aren't gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
all saying de escalate in relation to this incident. But
(02:14):
none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
that Israel has taken this very made this very big move,
preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's nuclear program,
you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
to speak to Prime Minister Nettaya who shortly after this interview,
so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion. I do
recognize Israel's right to self defense, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But I am very concerned about.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
The escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is
what is needed here.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
as it has done before.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, this is happening in real time as we speak,
and I'm not going to go into operational matters, if
you'll forgive me for that. But as I say, the
principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely clear
and we stand by that. But this is a fast
moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Canada and France which called for three things, for her
master release the hostages, for Israel's military operations in Gaza
to cease, and for Israel to let AID into Gaza
(03:43):
in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN in
delivering it. None of those things have happened. What action
will you take now, Well.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You'll have seen that we take an action in relation
to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and
it is important that we consider what other options that
we have. I always think in these situations it's better
to act with allies, which is why we're coordinating what
we're doing. But the situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable.
(04:12):
The AID arrangements are not adequate, nor are they going
to be adequate, and so that's why we've been consistently
calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
in awful circumstances, but we must get that AID in
at speed, at volume, and the current arrangements are not
going to deliver that and main following have been very
clear in our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
(04:46):
and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Which you've already done, and as I said, there's been
no change to the situation. An action you could take
is recognizing of Palestinian state, and President micro is leading
on a con conference at the UN next week on
that very subject.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's
labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
in the conference next week, I think is unclear.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And obviously now.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
The immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight, and so
there are a lot of moving parts at the moment.
But the principle, the principle we've always held is that
the only long term solution in relation to Palestine in
(05:40):
the Middle East is a two state solution, and although
it seems further off now than perhaps it's seen for
some time, we have to be clear that is the
only path through that Recognition at the right part of
the process has always been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So why would this not be the moment because the
action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
change on the ground. And in the West Bank there's
an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, and
recognizing if Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
(06:17):
want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
must be the appropriate part of the process that will
alleviate the situation.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It doesn't exist at the moment, there is no peace process.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, that's why it must be part of the process. Obviously,
as you would expect, we are talking to allies, like
minded countries about this very issue. But it must be
in accord with a manifesto, part of a process that
leads to a two state solution. It's the outcome that
matters in this hugely. Given the intolerable situation.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Can you see the moment where you might in fact, well,
can you see the moment where you might have to
do things independently of any process, because there isn't one.
And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's
trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian
state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Well, that's why we're talking to international partners about what
can be done, what should be done, what's the appropriate path,
and we'll continue to do that. I strongly believe that
we are better, more effective when we're acting with allies
with others at the same time. That's why we took
the approach we did on sanctions, and it's the same
mindset that I bring to this.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia. And you've worked very,
very hard on to help the US administration see Ukraine
slightly differently, to push them further towards greater action on Russia.
And you'll be seeing President Trump at the G seven summit.
Do you understand what he is trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I'm clear in my own mind that President Trump wants
to bring that an end to the conflict. I have
no doubt about that, and we are moving closer. I
hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of deal Ukraine.
President Zelenski has been absolutely clear that he wants that
unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging his heels,
(08:23):
which is why I think it is important for us,
together with others, to say it will be consequences if
Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And it seemed that you had it, did seem that
you had you you thought you had persuaded President Trump
on that when you went to Kiev, when you and
the other European leaders called in, you said, working with
President Trump, we're going to ramp up sanctions, and then
nothing came of it. President Trump talked tough for a
while about Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he
going to pressure mister Putin?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as
would expect with a trusted ally in this The path
to peace is rarely straightforward in any conflict. But I
do believe that that is what President Trump wants. That
is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is a
(09:18):
conflict of war that's been waged on them by the addressor,
which is Russia, and so we are doing everything to
bring about that outcome. But ASD say, the path from
conflict to peace is rarely straightforward. But I'm absolutely determined
that the UK will play a leading part, and I'm
very pleased that the UK has seemed to be able
(09:39):
to play that leading part in resolving the conflict. And
I remind myself always that not only is this about
the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is, but
it is also about our values in Europe, and it's
also about the direct impact it has back here at
home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy or
the cost of living, this communities, individuals in the UK
(10:02):
have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and therefore
we need to redouble our efforts to bring about a
lasting piece, on a temporary piece, a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
of measure that might pressure put In to come.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
To the negotiating table.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
He said on a number of occasions that's what he
will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
He also say he did in the war in twenty
four hours.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Well, as I say, the path, if you look at
any conflict historically, the path to piece has never been straightforward.
But the determination is there, the intent is there, and
I do believe we're making progress, but it must be
a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
the Willing and a reassurance force for post war Ukraine.
Have you got a commitment from the US that it
would provide air cover for that future force to deter
Russia from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
and I've always been clear that there must be a
US element to this. But on the other hand, I
do think that Europe needs to step up in its
own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led,
(11:30):
as it were, on the Coalition of the Willing, which
is to go, if you like, at the pace of
those that want to go furthest rather than at the
pace of those who are the most cautious, and to
start some of the planning that is going to be needed.
Then the further we get into the planning of what's
actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea,
(11:50):
and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This
is the military planning that is planning needs to go
on now, it's planning that can't go on after the event,
so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously, there's a
lot of moving parts, there's a lot of questions that
aren't answered yet, but the military planning is getting to
(12:11):
quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Having your back, as President Trump has said, is not
the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Well, look, I'm not going to get into the private
discussions that we are having, but what I would say
is this that there are no two countries that act
as closely together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing
as the US and the UK, and that aspect of
our relationship is as strong today as it's ever been.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
And my commitment to it is their. President Trump's commitment
to it is there.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is an unshakable
link between our countries.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you
to And would you be prepared to put US to
put British troops on the ground as part of a
post war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air
cover to protect them.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
I have said we would be willing to put our
troops on the ground, but there has to be that
US backstop if you like.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
So if it's not there, what happens to the worst
or force.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
as we've done historically for many, many years, as we
are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
we must never lose sight of the fact that the
(13:47):
US and the UK are as close as any two
countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share
with each other.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
After the break the latest on trade talks between the
United States and the U United Kingdom, and the UK
Prime Minister looks ahead to a pivotal NATO summit later
this month.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
There's another live bilateral issue which is the state of
your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it.
And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which
would take us to next Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
So will it be implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
JLR workers that I went to see before we started
the negotiations. I went to see immediately after negotiations, and
so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created by
(14:46):
this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but we're
at the end of that process and I hope that
we can complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Now is that the same as within the two weeks
by next Wednesday?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so
we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Why isn't it done yet.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Because there are both sides agreed what they would do
in order to implement, and so we're working through what
we the UK have to do what the US is
going to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That was as we're envisaged.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Not long after the G seven someone, you'll have the
NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very
specific new ask, which is that the US administration says
is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of
GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty
thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
spent on defense by twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I
think that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
the Cold War. With an ambition then to go to
three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
(16:07):
alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition I've
advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO. Our Strategic
Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all
European countries need to step up. There's been a sort
of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of
(16:29):
the burden.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think that's right.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
So I've said to European allies we need to do
more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
matter of some negotiation.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
What I'm really clear about is.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for
eighty plus years. It is the most important successful military
alliance that's ever been and I think it's important for
that summit in just over a week's time to be
a real show of unity and to show our responsibility
(17:06):
not just to reflect on the last eighty years of NATO,
but to play our part in ensuring that we continue
peace in Europe.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And that's all NATO.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And that's the broad picture, But there is now this
very specific lass and your current commitment, as your current ambition,
is for three percent of GDP spent on defense by
the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament. So
could it be your ambition by the time of this
summit to raise that to three and a half percent,
because if you don't, you can't really claim to be
(17:36):
the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Well, I had Mark rot of the Sexuary General of
NATO here in this room on Monday to discuss how
together we would go into this summit.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And there's still.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Discussions going on as to price precisely what the wording
of what the commitment will be. But I mean, he
was very clear to me that he welcomed our uplift
to two point five percent. It was very pleased that
we had done that. It was very pleased with a
strategic defense, it's all good.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
It's just a long way from what you want. And
the US says everyone's going to agree to this within weeks.
Forget week, We're going to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
To NATO, not just in our troops but also our
nuclear commitment to NATO. Were the only country that commits
our nuclear capability to NATO, and so I think he
would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a huge
contribution to NATO and I am absolutely determined that that
summit in just over a week will be a huge
(18:35):
success and an opportunity to show the strength together that
we have as NATO allies, but also to send a
very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally important
in what is a more unstable world than I think
we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
you've just set out for national renewal, a new phase
of your government. There are some concerns that the growth
picture is not necessarily going to with the forecast going
to support your spending plans. And there is a group
of people that Bloomberg have looked into company filings and
they've seen the thousands of company directors have left the
(19:16):
country relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Is this a group of people that you can really
afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you
consider an investor visa?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
and I won't go over this at great detail, but
we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
was broken, the economy, public services.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
You name it, which is why you raised we had to.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Take difficult but right decisions in the budget, and that,
if you like, was year one of this labor government,
which was clear up the mess, take the difficult but
necessary decisions. We're now very clearly moving into sort of
phase two, which is what the spending review ushers in,
which is being clear, what's the benefit from this, what's
the yield?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Where are you putting your money? And I'm really proud.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
That we're rolling out a program of real labor values
in terms of investment, whether that's things like sigh as well.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So might investor be part of it, It's just is
it something you're considering.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
I want more investors to come into the country, I
want top talent to come into the country. But I
would just push back a little because we've had record
investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
had London Tech Week where we had some of the
most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
(20:44):
the praises of the UK and why now is the
right time to invest in the UK.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
He's also lost about a quarter of a million jobs
since the autumn, so it's not all as rosy.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
As we've actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people
are in work than at the day to the last election,
and the.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Actually since you raise taxes in the autumn. This is
the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a million.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Jobs have been lost.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
If he looked at the number of people in work,
it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size well that
we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs. And
my job is to make sure that good and well paid,
secure jobs are there and to attract that investment and
(21:30):
for international investment. I do think this is a really
important point, and Bloomberg will understand.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
This almost beends on anyone.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Those global investors have a choice as to which country
they put their money in. They chose not to put
their money into the UK for many years before the election.
Now we've had record inward investment. That is because they've
got confidence in what we're doing. They're putting their money in,
and that to me speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Final thought, is President Trump coming Intomber for his state visit?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize
the dates.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
But President Trump will be coming for his state visit and.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
In the autumn, and that is really good.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Well, the Palace will do it.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
But is it this here?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So yes, but as I said, i'll leave it. I'd
want to take over the job of the Palace. It's
their job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation.
But I'm really pleased that we will be able to
showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and
the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will
(22:36):
be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're
all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Prime Minister, thank you very much, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerre.
This conversation was part of the Bloomberg Weekend Interview. We're
host Michelle Hussein speaks to influential voices in politics, business
and culture from around the globe. You can find an
annotated transcript of this Starmer interview, as well as an
archive of past conversations with folks like Elon Musk and
Succession creator Jesse Armstrong at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Weekend,
(23:10):
or in the Bloomberg app Our special Thanks to Jessica Beck.
Thanks for listening, and have a great weekend.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
I'm David Gura, and this is the big take from
Bloomberg News.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
Today.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
On the show, we're bringing you a special conversation in full.
Keir Starmer, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, sits
down with Bloomberg's Michelle Hussein at ten Downing Street. Michelle
is editor at large for Bloomberg Weekend, and the interview
took place on Friday, hours after Israel launched an attack
on Iran, striking what Prime Minister Benjamin Nett and Yahoo
described as the heart of its nuclear enrichment program, and
(00:34):
Starmer is preparing to travel to Canada for a meeting
of the G seven. It covered a lot of ground,
including defense spending, the path forward for Ukraine, and the
UK's trade talks with the US, but their conversation started
with the latest developments in the Middle East. Here's Michelle
Hussein's interview with UK Prime Minister Keir Starmer.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
Prime Minister, just as you're about to leave for the
G seven, Israel's carried out what it describes as a
preemptive strike on Iranian nuclear target. It's two hundred fighter jets,
more than three hundred bombs, the site struck, including homes.
Would you say Israel is justified in the action it's taken.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Well, I'm very concerned about the situation that is developing,
and it's obvious that for a long time we've had
grave concerns about the nuclear program that Iran is putting together,
and we absolutely recognize as Roel's right to self defense.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
We the UK were not evolved in this attack.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
And we're urging all sides to de escalate and negotiate
as the way forward here, and obviously we're talking to
allies about that. We have been this week. We are
intensively talking to allies today.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
In March, US national intelligence made it public that they
did not believe Iran was developing nuclear weapons. So has
something changed in the assessment since then.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Well, I won't go into the intelligence assessments, but we
aren't gravely concerned. I've just had a call with President
Macron and Chancellor Mertz to discuss the situation, and we
are all on the same page in the sense of saying, look,
the nuclear program is a real cause for concern. We're
all saying de escalate in relation to this incident. But
(02:14):
none of us were involved in the actual attack.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Does that mean you're also gravely concerned about the fact
that Israel has taken this very made this very big move,
preemptive military action. I mean, you're concerned about Iran's nuclear program,
you're also concerned about Israel's choice of action.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Well, I'm concerned about escalation, of course, and I'm going
to speak to Prime Minister Nettaya who shortly after this interview,
so obviously that'll be a topic of discussion. I do
recognize Israel's right to self defense, there's no doubt about that.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
But I am very concerned about.
Speaker 4 (02:46):
The escalation of this situation, which is why, along with
Germany and France, were really clear that de escalation is
what is needed here.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Would the UK therefore help defend Israel from Iranian attack
as it has done before.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Well, this is happening in real time as we speak,
and I'm not going to go into operational matters, if
you'll forgive me for that. But as I say, the
principle of Israel's right to self defense is absolutely clear
and we stand by that. But this is a fast
moving situation, as you will understand.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
At the same time, we have the ongoing situation in Gaza,
the suffering. They're something that you have called intolerable and appalling.
Three weeks ago, you made this very strong statement with
Canada and France which called for three things, for her
master release the hostages, for Israel's military operations in Gaza
to cease, and for Israel to let AID into Gaza
(03:43):
in accordance with the UN, engage with the UN in
delivering it. None of those things have happened. What action
will you take now, Well.
Speaker 4 (03:51):
You'll have seen that we take an action in relation
to sanctions three weeks ago, but also more recently, and
it is important that we consider what other options that
we have. I always think in these situations it's better
to act with allies, which is why we're coordinating what
we're doing. But the situation in Gaza is absolutely intolerable.
(04:12):
The AID arrangements are not adequate, nor are they going
to be adequate, and so that's why we've been consistently
calling for a return to the ceasefire.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Of course, the release of the hostages.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
The remaining hostages have been there a very long time
in awful circumstances, but we must get that AID in
at speed, at volume, and the current arrangements are not
going to deliver that and main following have been very
clear in our messaging all this and our coordination all this,
(04:46):
and our willingness to take action such as sanctioning.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
Which you've already done, and as I said, there's been
no change to the situation. An action you could take
is recognizing of Palestinian state, and President micro is leading
on a con conference at the UN next week on
that very subject.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Well, we've got long standing policy as a labor party's
labor government that recognition should be part of a process,
and so that's our approach. Precisely what's going to happen
in the conference next week, I think is unclear.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
And obviously now.
Speaker 4 (05:20):
The immediate issue is the Israeli attack overnight, and so
there are a lot of moving parts at the moment.
But the principle, the principle we've always held is that
the only long term solution in relation to Palestine in
(05:40):
the Middle East is a two state solution, and although
it seems further off now than perhaps it's seen for
some time, we have to be clear that is the
only path through that Recognition at the right part of
the process has always been our long standing policy.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
So why would this not be the moment because the
action you've taken so far has not resulted in a
change on the ground. And in the West Bank there's
an expansion of settlements, and there are Palestinians being expelled
from their homes, and there are the extremist actions of
Israeli settlers. Britain has a historic responsibility, doesn't it, and
recognizing if Palestinian state was in your manifesto. Do you
(06:17):
want to be the British Prime Minister who delivers that.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
Well, we do have a special responsibility.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
You're absolutely right about that and I'm clear and our
manifesto was clear about our position on recognition. But it
must be the appropriate part of the process that will
alleviate the situation.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It doesn't exist at the moment, there is no peace process.
Speaker 4 (06:39):
Well, that's why it must be part of the process. Obviously,
as you would expect, we are talking to allies, like
minded countries about this very issue. But it must be
in accord with a manifesto, part of a process that
leads to a two state solution. It's the outcome that
matters in this hugely. Given the intolerable situation.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Can you see the moment where you might in fact, well,
can you see the moment where you might have to
do things independently of any process, because there isn't one.
And indeed, the Israeli government is saying openly that it's
trying to prevent the expand the establishment of a Paralestinian
state through settlement expansion.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Well, that's why we're talking to international partners about what
can be done, what should be done, what's the appropriate path,
and we'll continue to do that. I strongly believe that
we are better, more effective when we're acting with allies
with others at the same time. That's why we took
the approach we did on sanctions, and it's the same
mindset that I bring to this.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Speaking of sanctions, let's turn to Russia. And you've worked very,
very hard on to help the US administration see Ukraine
slightly differently, to push them further towards greater action on Russia.
And you'll be seeing President Trump at the G seven summit.
Do you understand what he is trying to do on Russia.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
I'm clear in my own mind that President Trump wants
to bring that an end to the conflict. I have
no doubt about that, and we are moving closer. I
hope to some sort of ceasefire, some sort of deal Ukraine.
President Zelenski has been absolutely clear that he wants that
unconditional ceasefire. Putin, in my view, is dragging his heels,
(08:23):
which is why I think it is important for us,
together with others, to say it will be consequences if
Russia doesn't come forward to an unconditional cease fire.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And it seemed that you had it, did seem that
you had you you thought you had persuaded President Trump
on that when you went to Kiev, when you and
the other European leaders called in, you said, working with
President Trump, we're going to ramp up sanctions, and then
nothing came of it. President Trump talked tough for a
while about Vladimir Putin and then stopped. So is he
going to pressure mister Putin?
Speaker 4 (08:54):
Well, there are discussions going on the whole time, and
we're working with the Ukrainians, working with the US as
would expect with a trusted ally in this The path
to peace is rarely straightforward in any conflict. But I
do believe that that is what President Trump wants. That
is absolutely what the Ukrainians want peace. This is a
(09:18):
conflict of war that's been waged on them by the addressor,
which is Russia, and so we are doing everything to
bring about that outcome. But ASD say, the path from
conflict to peace is rarely straightforward. But I'm absolutely determined
that the UK will play a leading part, and I'm
very pleased that the UK has seemed to be able
(09:39):
to play that leading part in resolving the conflict. And
I remind myself always that not only is this about
the sovereignty of Ukraine, which of course it is, but
it is also about our values in Europe, and it's
also about the direct impact it has back here at
home in the United Kingdom, because whether it's energy or
the cost of living, this communities, individuals in the UK
(10:02):
have been impacted by what's happening in Ukraine, and therefore
we need to redouble our efforts to bring about a
lasting piece, on a temporary piece, a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Are you saying that you do believe that President Trump
will bring in sanctions on Russia, new sanctions, the kind
of measure that might pressure put In to come.
Speaker 5 (10:23):
To the negotiating table.
Speaker 4 (10:24):
He said on a number of occasions that's what he
will do, and we're obviously closely aligning and talking to him.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
He also say he did in the war in twenty
four hours.
Speaker 4 (10:32):
Well, as I say, the path, if you look at
any conflict historically, the path to piece has never been straightforward.
But the determination is there, the intent is there, and
I do believe we're making progress, but it must be
a lasting piece.
Speaker 1 (10:52):
You have led on this idea of the Coalition of
the Willing and a reassurance force for post war Ukraine.
Have you got a commitment from the US that it
would provide air cover for that future force to deter
Russia from attacking Ukraine in the future.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
Well, President Trump has clearly said he'll have our back,
and I've always been clear that there must be a
US element to this. But on the other hand, I
do think that Europe needs to step up in its
own right, in its own collective security and self defense.
And that's why, along with President Macron, we have led,
(11:30):
as it were, on the Coalition of the Willing, which
is to go, if you like, at the pace of
those that want to go furthest rather than at the
pace of those who are the most cautious, and to
start some of the planning that is going to be needed.
Then the further we get into the planning of what's
actually going to be needed in the air, in the sea,
(11:50):
and possibly on land, the more convinced I am. This
is the military planning that is planning needs to go
on now, it's planning that can't go on after the event,
so that we're ready for whatever happened. Obviously, there's a
lot of moving parts, there's a lot of questions that
aren't answered yet, but the military planning is getting to
(12:11):
quite an advanced stage.
Speaker 5 (12:12):
Now.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Having your back, as President Trump has said, is not
the same as saying I will provide US air cover.
Bloomberg's been told that the US is refusing to commit
to air cover for a post warforce.
Speaker 4 (12:26):
Well, look, I'm not going to get into the private
discussions that we are having, but what I would say
is this that there are no two countries that act
as closely together on defense, security and on intelligence sharing
as the US and the UK, and that aspect of
our relationship is as strong today as it's ever been.
Speaker 3 (12:49):
And my commitment to it is their. President Trump's commitment
to it is there.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
We've discussed it between ourselves, so that is an unshakable
link between our countries.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
It does make it difficult, though, doesn't it for you
to And would you be prepared to put US to
put British troops on the ground as part of a
post war force in Ukraine if there wasn't US air
cover to protect them.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Well, I've always said there needs to be US protection.
I have said we would be willing to put our
troops on the ground, but there has to be that
US backstop if you like.
Speaker 5 (13:22):
So if it's not there, what happens to the worst
or force.
Speaker 4 (13:25):
We are discussing this, but I have no reason to
believe that the US and the UK wouldn't act together
as we've done historically for many, many years, as we
are doing every single day of the week. Our teams
are in constant touch with each other. As I say,
we must never lose sight of the fact that the
(13:47):
US and the UK are as close as any two
countries on defense, security and the intelligence that we share
with each other.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
After the break the latest on trade talks between the
United States and the U United Kingdom, and the UK
Prime Minister looks ahead to a pivotal NATO summit later
this month.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
There's another live bilateral issue which is the state of
your trade agreement and the hope that you will implement it.
And the timeframe you yourself set was two weeks, which
would take us to next Wednesday.
Speaker 5 (14:23):
So will it be implemented in that timeframe.
Speaker 4 (14:25):
We're in the final stages of implementing now. I'm very
pleased that we reach that agreement. It was a huge
relief to car manufacturing those working in the sector, particularly
JLR workers that I went to see before we started
the negotiations. I went to see immediately after negotiations, and
so this is measured in jobs protected, jobs created by
(14:46):
this deal. We are at the implementation stage, but we're
at the end of that process and I hope that
we can complete it pretty soon.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Now is that the same as within the two weeks
by next Wednesday?
Speaker 4 (14:57):
Oh, I'm hoping that we will complete it pretty soon.
I mean, it's important that we do. But we're making
good progress. There's nothing unexpected in the implementation and so
we haven't got any hiccups or obstacles.
Speaker 5 (15:10):
Why isn't it done yet.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
Because there are both sides agreed what they would do
in order to implement, and so we're working through what
we the UK have to do what the US is
going to do so we can implement it.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
That was as we're envisaged.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Not long after the G seven someone, you'll have the
NATO summit coming up, and there there is a very
specific new ask, which is that the US administration says
is NATO itself says is to spend five percent of
GDP on defense, understood to be by the year twenty
thirty two, three and a half percent on core defense spending.
Speaker 5 (15:42):
Will you be committing to that?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
Well, let me go through what we've already committed to,
which is obviously two point five percent of GDP being
spent on defense by twenty twenty seven, twenty eight. I
think that's earlier than most people thought we would commit to,
and that's the biggest sustain increase in defense spending since
the Cold War. With an ambition then to go to
three percent in the next Parliament set that all out
(16:07):
alongside our Strategic Defense Review. I accept the proposition I've
advanced the proposition about the importance of NATO. Our Strategic
Defense Review is very much NATO first, and that all
European countries need to step up. There's been a sort
of criticism that Europe hasn't carried its fair share of
(16:29):
the burden.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
I think that's right.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
So I've said to European allies we need to do
more on spend on capability and cooperation. Obviously, the precise
wording that will be agreed that NATO is still a
matter of some negotiation.
Speaker 3 (16:44):
What I'm really clear about is.
Speaker 4 (16:45):
That NATO has been the cornerstone of our defence for
eighty plus years. It is the most important successful military
alliance that's ever been and I think it's important for
that summit in just over a week's time to be
a real show of unity and to show our responsibility
(17:06):
not just to reflect on the last eighty years of NATO,
but to play our part in ensuring that we continue
peace in Europe.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
And that's all NATO.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And that's the broad picture, But there is now this
very specific lass and your current commitment, as your current ambition,
is for three percent of GDP spent on defense by
the year twenty thirty four in the next parliament. So
could it be your ambition by the time of this
summit to raise that to three and a half percent,
because if you don't, you can't really claim to be
(17:36):
the leading European nation in NATO.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Well, I had Mark rot of the Sexuary General of
NATO here in this room on Monday to discuss how
together we would go into this summit.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
And there's still.
Speaker 4 (17:50):
Discussions going on as to price precisely what the wording
of what the commitment will be. But I mean, he
was very clear to me that he welcomed our uplift
to two point five percent. It was very pleased that
we had done that. It was very pleased with a
strategic defense, it's all good.
Speaker 5 (18:05):
It's just a long way from what you want. And
the US says everyone's going to agree to this within weeks.
Forget week, We're going to be a very difficult summit.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
To NATO, not just in our troops but also our
nuclear commitment to NATO. Were the only country that commits
our nuclear capability to NATO, and so I think he
would recognize NATO recognizes that the UK makes a huge
contribution to NATO and I am absolutely determined that that
summit in just over a week will be a huge
(18:35):
success and an opportunity to show the strength together that
we have as NATO allies, but also to send a
very clear message to our adversaries, which is equally important
in what is a more unstable world than I think
we've seen for many, many years.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
Finally, let's return to the UK and the plans that
you've just set out for national renewal, a new phase
of your government. There are some concerns that the growth
picture is not necessarily going to with the forecast going
to support your spending plans. And there is a group
of people that Bloomberg have looked into company filings and
they've seen the thousands of company directors have left the
(19:16):
country relocating out of the UK in the last year.
Is this a group of people that you can really
afford to use? Don't you need to have those people
here to look at the opportunities for investment? Might you
consider an investor visa?
Speaker 4 (19:28):
Well, let me put this in the context because obviously,
and I won't go over this at great detail, but
we inherited a complete mess at the election. Almost everything
was broken, the economy, public services.
Speaker 5 (19:41):
You name it, which is why you raised we had to.
Speaker 4 (19:43):
Take difficult but right decisions in the budget, and that,
if you like, was year one of this labor government,
which was clear up the mess, take the difficult but
necessary decisions. We're now very clearly moving into sort of
phase two, which is what the spending review ushers in,
which is being clear, what's the benefit from this, what's
the yield?
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Where are you putting your money? And I'm really proud.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
That we're rolling out a program of real labor values
in terms of investment, whether that's things like sigh as well.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
So might investor be part of it, It's just is
it something you're considering.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
I want more investors to come into the country, I
want top talent to come into the country. But I
would just push back a little because we've had record
investment into the UK since the last election. We've just
had London Tech Week where we had some of the
most forward leading investment investors and tech companies absolutely singing
(20:44):
the praises of the UK and why now is the
right time to invest in the UK.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
He's also lost about a quarter of a million jobs
since the autumn, so it's not all as rosy.
Speaker 4 (20:54):
As we've actually, I mean, five hundred thousand more people
are in work than at the day to the last election,
and the.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Actually since you raise taxes in the autumn. This is
the Bloomberg analysis that a quarter of a million.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
Jobs have been lost.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
If he looked at the number of people in work,
it is five hundred thousand more than it was. If
you look at the commitment and spending Defense Strategic Review,
there's thirty thousand jobs in nuclear submarines size well that
we announced earlier this week, there's ten thousand jobs. And
my job is to make sure that good and well paid,
secure jobs are there and to attract that investment and
(21:30):
for international investment. I do think this is a really
important point, and Bloomberg will understand.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
This almost beends on anyone.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Those global investors have a choice as to which country
they put their money in. They chose not to put
their money into the UK for many years before the election.
Now we've had record inward investment. That is because they've
got confidence in what we're doing. They're putting their money in,
and that to me speaks volumes.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
Final thought, is President Trump coming Intomber for his state visit?
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh, he'll be coming in obviously, the Palace will organize
the dates.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
But President Trump will be coming for his state visit and.
Speaker 5 (22:09):
In the autumn, and that is really good.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
Well, the Palace will do it.
Speaker 5 (22:13):
But is it this here?
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
So yes, but as I said, i'll leave it. I'd
want to take over the job of the Palace. It's
their job to set out exactly the dates of the invitation.
But I'm really pleased that we will be able to
showcase the close relationship we have between the UK and
the US. That's historically a close relationship, and this will
(22:36):
be a historic second visit for President Trump and we're
all looking forward to welcoming him here.
Speaker 5 (22:41):
Prime Minister, thank you very much, Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerre.
This conversation was part of the Bloomberg Weekend Interview. We're
host Michelle Hussein speaks to influential voices in politics, business
and culture from around the globe. You can find an
annotated transcript of this Starmer interview, as well as an
archive of past conversations with folks like Elon Musk and
Succession creator Jesse Armstrong at Bloomberg dot com, Slash Weekend,
(23:10):
or in the Bloomberg app Our special Thanks to Jessica Beck.
Thanks for listening, and have a great weekend.
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Sarah Holder
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