Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
If you see the job openings, it's for a senior role,
a software engineering role in high level.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
If you scroll below, there is something related to audits
this technology.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Earlier this week, I went job hunting on LinkedIn with
side Nayak, Bloomberg finance reporter based in Mumbai.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
You can also experiment with other firms like say a
Goldman Sachs. Goldman Sachs has an opening in Hyderabad for
Corporate Planning and Management Vice President Software Engineering in Hyderabad.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
Now, I am not planning a career pivot or a
move from New York to New Delhi. We did this
so CIDI could show me that jobs in India's finance
sector are not what they used to be. City covers
the big Wall Street banks, JP, Morgan, Chase, Morgan, Stanley,
Goldman Sachs. For years, much of the coverage of the
global banking industry and its white collar employees was focused
(01:08):
on the US and Europe. But City and I weren't
looking for jobs in New York or Paris. We were
looking in India, where there is a hiring frenzy.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Wall Street banks don't have a big presence from the
retail site. But if you look at the corporate side
as well as the investment banking side and the wealth side,
basically they have a huge presence. This is your JP Morgan,
your Barclays, your HSBC, your Deutsche Bank.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
City is on a team of Bloomberg reporters tracking Wall
Street's growing reliance on Indian hubs. This is a shift
that's accelerated as President Trump Titan's visa requirements and as
India's booming wealth management industry and private credit continue to grow.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
JP Morgan Chase is hiring credit specialists in Mangalore. Goldman
Sachs is hiring analysts to review loans tight to everything
from commercial property to yachts. So what began as low skilled,
call centered jobs in India have now evolved into a
mission critical hub of global finance and technology.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm
David Gura in for Wanha. Every week we take you
inside some of the world's biggest and most powerful economies
and the markets, tycoons and businesses that drive this ever
shifting region. Today on the show, Indian based workers once
supported American financial services firms now they're increasingly key to
(02:42):
their operations. How India's government is encouraging Wall Street firms
to expand their footprint in India, and how President Trump's
new visa policies could speed up the push. India has
been a tech hub for decades. In the late nineties
(03:03):
and early two thousands, the country saw a call center boom,
with multinational corporations like American Express, IBM and Goldman Sachs
setting up Global Capability Centers or gccs and staffing them
with Indian workers. The goal was to provide twenty four
to seven low cost operational support for customers in the US.
(03:24):
Here's Bloomberg City Nayak.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
These firms operations in India were largely to address grievances
of customers or initiate sales through phone calls. So, for example,
if you're a client based in US and had grievances
related to insurance, the chances were that Indians had these
call centers would answer these calls and help address these concerns.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
But that has changed dramatically over the last decade. Take
Goldman Sacks as an example. In two thousand and four,
its office in the southern city of Bangalore had three
hundred employees, most of whom focused on tech and IT support.
Today that same office is home to more than eight
thousand employees. Those workers do everything from core financial analysis
(04:06):
to risk management, the kind of jobs that used to
be done in US cities.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
The perception that Indian gccs are providing call center jobs
is kind of changing. Gccs that are now offshow centers
established by these multinational cooperations or financial services firms now
deliver high quality, cost effective services and support their global operations.
Call center jobs are now being outsourced to other emerging
(04:33):
economies like Philippines. Property prices also are cheap because the
value of rupee is depreciating visa either dollar.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
So it sounds like there is quite a boom here.
How far along are we?
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Financial services firms? Banks have a significant employee base in India.
The top six US banks in India, that is JP, Morgan,
Bank of America, Goldman, Sachs City, etc. Employ about one
fifty thousand people in India. We know that Goldman, SAX
and Morgan Stanley have more staff in India than anywhere
(05:08):
outside the US. What we understand from sources is that
one European bank concluded that a catastrophe in India such
as an earthquake, would disrupt its activities more than a
similar disaster at its headquarters.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Is this going to be a bigger magnet? Do you
think in the years ahead it.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Is going to be a bigger magnet.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Because most of these colleges as well as tech centers
are churning out low cost talent on a large scale,
there will be more opportunities for formal and informal workers.
This is because there is no dearth of talent from
the tech side in India. There's always a lot of
(05:49):
graduates every year that get pulled up into these roles,
which is why we can see the boom expecting to
continue and most of these firms trying to leverage on
the talent that is built in India.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
According to estimates from the National Association of Software and
Service Companies and consulting firm Zenov, employment at gccs in
India is projected to jump fifty percent to as many
as two point eight million people by twenty thirty. Cdesa's
employees at these gccs are breaking ground too. A source
told Bloomberg that Black Rocks a Laddin portfolio management platform
(06:28):
was developed in India, as was Goldman's Atlas trading system.
Then there's Zel, the popular payment app. It was developed
by Arizona based Early Warning Services, but Sidi's sources told
her that India played a crucial role behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
We have information from our sources that the technology behind
running this zell app was entirely built out of India
through Bank of America, Goldman Sachs gccs in Bangalore and Hyderabad.
This was kind of inspired by the fintech revolution in India.
(07:03):
We have a UPI Unified Payment Interface system in India
where there is a bank to bank transfer of payment
systems using a QR code. So most of these inspirations
were kind of instrumental in making or building the Zell app.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Could you situate this in kind of the broader Indian economy?
How important it is that the growth of these gccs
the importance of Wall Street's interest in putting some of
these higher skill jobs in India.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
So gccs are a vital component of the Wall Street
firm's global strategies as well as for India's economic growth.
They are fostering job creation, skill development, and foreign investment
in India that is in turn getting fed into India's
GDP growth. Their revenue is expected to search to one
(07:52):
hundred and five billion dollars from about forty point four
billion dollars in FY nineteen, according to na Scom and
Zenov estimates. So this is the kind of impact that
we are talking about. Their growth in India is not
just important for fueling economic growth, job creation, but also
(08:13):
to get a lot of foreign influ in terms of
foreign direct investments in India.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
This year, US immigration policy through a ranch in India's
workforce overseas, but it also became a boon for their
domestic gccs. How that's after the break In late September,
(08:47):
President Trump announced it change to US immigration policy with
a big price tag, a one hundred thousand dollars fee
for an H one B visa application.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
The country would rather not have to pay one hundred
thousand dollars, but rather, how do you do that? You
hire America, So there's an incentive to hire.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
The H one B is a non immigrant visa which
allows US employers to temporarily hire foreign workers in highly
skilled roles engineering, technology, medicine. When Trump made the announcement,
the US's financial sector found itself relatively unprepared, as Bloomberg
City nayak So.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
Indians make up roughly seventy percent of H one B holders.
When Trump first announced one hundred thousand dollar visa fee,
it was seen as a big blow for Indians.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
We had JP Morgan.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
CEO Jamie Dimmons say that the announcement caught everybody off guard.
Apart from that, we had HSBC stating that the new
one hundred thousand, h one B dollar fee in the
US was manageable due to their relatively low number of
foreign workers compared to other firms.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
JP Morgan, APAX CEO and head of Banking Short Leanard
joined Bloomberg TV's Menkadoshe shortly after Trump's announcement and expanded
on the company's disappointment that how this would impact India's
younger workforce.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
So, will JP Morgan be moving more jobs to your
GCC here.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
Yeah, well that's a very good question, and if it was,
it would be a shame because it obviously has been
a great source of opportunity for Indian students. You know,
India producer's two point eight million STEM students every year
and they've gone all over the world, including.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
In a statement to Bloomberg. A White House spokeswoman said
changes to the H one B visa program were necessary
to put America first. She said the bank's efforts to
move jobs overseas is quote evidence that they were using
foreign workers to undercut Americans wages. Though it is a change,
it's not like the rug had gotten pulled down from
under India's financial industry City says the Indian economy was
(10:49):
expanding and the upper class was growing in this.
Speaker 3 (10:52):
In the middle of a wealth broom.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
The boom had already started post COVID, and Trump's announcement
of the visa fee kind of gotten in for these firms,
like an incentive to hire more talent inward. Banks that
might consider transferring a worker to the US may now
be opened to hire them in India itself.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
An H one B visa used to cost on average,
around five thousand dollars. JP Morgan is among the top
ten companies in the US that sponsors the most H
one B visas. City says the new visa fee has
sparked some chatter among the banks.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Some of the Wall Street banks in India were looking
to talk to their counterparts in the US to talk
to them about opening more roles in India specialist roles
in India to kind of not be impacted by the
higher he B dollar fee.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Then there's the math involved in hiring people in India
versus in a US city.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Firms know that the salary of an Indian tech engineer
is much less than what it is in the US
for an entry level role at a US bank's GCC,
and engineering graduate in India could earn anything between say
three hundred thousand rupees to eight hundred thousand rupees a
(12:14):
year depending on the location.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
That's between four and ten thousand dollars per employee.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
That compass with a sixty thousand dollars annual fee for
an Indian on a US visa and up to one
twenty thousand dollars for a US citizen in the same role.
Speaker 1 (12:32):
So he says, these calculations are driving banks to think
differently about the way they balance staffing in their offices
in the US and in India.
Speaker 2 (12:40):
This has actually accelerated the pivot to India Wall Street
banks for hiring anyway, this fee is just a push
potentially bringing more jobs to India. So recruitment firms have
told us that with the new fee, workers have started
to question if a US job is a priority for
or most of the employees, as well as the employers.
(13:03):
Firms have also realized that this is not going to
be cost effective and India, which was already seeing a
GCC boom, would now benefit from this.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Trump said the higher H ONEB VISA application fee is
to address quote abuse of the program and to compel
US companies to hire Americans, but cities reporting shows it
could backfire and hurt the US instead.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
Senior executives from at least two US banks in India
are in talks to consider ways to ramp up their
global capability centers in India. This is in response to
the H ONEB VISA crackdown. According to sources, some global
lenders that had extended offer letters for positions in the
US are also looking to either revoke them or create
(13:51):
alternative roles at these gccs.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
That's bad news for the US job market potentially, but
it could be great news for India.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
If these jobs are coming to India, it is a
boom for the job market. A tech engineer or a
tech specialist who has just graduated has more options on
the table. He has the option of getting into a
startup a GCC of fintech firms. The role is being
(14:20):
elevated in the sense that he has to do more
jobs that involve research, legal development, specializing, getting into certain
spaces that only high skill talent can tap into. That
is the kind of opportunity boom in gccs has provided
the tech talent. At the same time, if these firms
(14:44):
are getting huge real estate spaces in India, they do
require informal jobs as well, and that's kind of being
a boon for the entire Indian job market.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
So the says the government has seen an opportunity and
is working on a set of policies to incentivize the
financial sector designed to help the GCC ecosystem thrive.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
India announces its federal budget on the first of February
every year. This is kind of a broad layout that
the government has on revenues, taxations, incentives, etc. From our sources,
we have found out that there is a GCC policy
(15:30):
framework that's going to be in the making so that
more US firms or more foreign firms are encouraged and
incentivized to build more GCC hubs here. These banks employ
a huge workforce in India. Foreign firms bring in a
lot of capital for the long term. These are strategic
(15:53):
investments made for a fifteen to twenty year horizon, which
is why the government wants to incentivize these firms to
build more operations in India, set up more offices, employ
more workers, and kind of steer the job market.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So they says, it'll be a while before we see
how this pans out in India and in the US.
As banks recalibrate their global hiring strategies. One thing banks
are watching and something that's holding them back from expanding
too aggressively is how Trump could retaliate.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
So US firms are walking a fine line as then
look to shift more of these roles to India. There
is a risk that there could be a backlash from
Trump and Trump could.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
Now target GCC's next.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
It could bring GCC's in Trump's crosshairs. When we spoke
to our sources, we found that these banks were considering
Trump's imposition of tariffs or sanctions on GCC sees as
a major risk to their operations. They said that most
of these banks and their US headquarters were talking to
(17:08):
Trump about the issues and the fact that they were
hiring a lot of people in India, so any impact
of the government's orders would directly be felt on these.
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Banks operations as well.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
But that is a story for another day.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm
David Gera. To get more from The Big Take and
unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe today
at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast Offer. If you liked
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Take Asia wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people
find the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.