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September 2, 2025 16 mins

Beijing is holding its first military parade since 2019, showcasing the strength of China’s armed forces. Underneath the show of power, a Bloomberg investigation has found President Xi Jinping is orchestrating the biggest purge of military leadership since Mao Zedong.

On today's Big Take Asia Podcast, host K. Oanh Ha speaks with Bloomberg's John Liu about the dramatic restructuring of China’s military and what this sweeping shakeup could mean for the rest of the world.

Read more: Xi Unleashes China’s Biggest Purge of Military Leaders Since Mao

Further listening:

The Shadowy Fleet of Tankers Moving Iranian Oil to China
Tensions Are Growing in the South China Sea

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
This Wednesday, in Beijing from the Gate of Heavenly Peace
overlooking Tianeman Square, China's President Shijinping will watch the country's
first military parade since twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (00:21):
So the parade itself is to celebrate the end of
World War Two.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
Bloomberg's John Liu oversees our coverage of Greater China from Beijing.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
It's an important event for President she because it's an
occasion to show off how much the military has progressed
when it comes to modernization, which has been one of
the priorities for China under Sijinping.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
The parade features tens of thousands of troops and hundreds
of aircraft. It showcases China's latest weapons system, including combat
drones and nuclear capable ballistic missiles. She will also host
a who's who of political strongmen.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong un from North Korea will be
making a very rare trip out of North Korea to attend,
and you have heads of state from various countries around
the world. So it's a chance to show that China
has friends, that China has influence. I think it's meant
to portray solidarity and strength. That is for both the

(01:20):
domestic audience but also for audiences around the world.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
While China makes a show of flexing its military muscle,
a Bloomberg analysis found that behind the scenes, Shi Jinping
is conducting an unprecedented purge of military leaders. He's firing
generals at a rate not seen since the days of
Mount Zadong, who founded the People's Republic of China.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
There has been a number of generals removed, and it
has been especially notable because those generals were appointed under
Siji Ping. Chijiping appointed them, and so it poses the
question of why is she doing this? Is he able
to do this and it shows that he has a
greater grasp of power than any of the predecessors that

(02:04):
came before, or is this a sign of challenges to
She's power in that some of his own men are
being forced out.

Speaker 2 (02:18):
Welcome to the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha.
Every week we take you inside some of the world's
biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons, and
businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today, in the show,
China's biggest military purge since the rule of Mao Zudong.
Why is Shijin Ping ousting so many generals and what

(02:42):
does China's military shakeup mean for the rest of the world.
In China, the armed forces occupy a unique place in
the country's power structure. The People's Liberation Army or the
PLA isn't controlled by the government. It's controlled by the
Chinese Communist Party and specifically by the chairman of the

(03:05):
party's Central Military Commission.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
It is the military. It is control of the military
that all power is derived in China. So if you
look at who is the chairman of the Military Commission,
that really tells you who is the main leader in
China at any given point in.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
Today's China, that's Shijinping. His power comes from the Party,
the government, and the armed forces.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
President Shijinping and his immediate predecessors, each of them have
held three titles, that of President, head of the Party,
and head of the Central Military Commission, so commander in chief.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
In his role as commander in chief, she has launched
a sweeping purge of the military's leadership in recent years.
During his current term, fourteen of the seventy nine generals
that she himself promoted. That's nearly a fifth of his
appointees have either disappeared from public life or been the
subject of investigation. In China, those are signs of leaders

(04:06):
who have been deposed.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
The purge itself, in terms of the number of actual
people is not that large. I think what is very
material about it is that it's never happened in the
sense that these are generals that Xi Jinping himself appointed,
and when we look back Hu Jintao, she's a media
predecessor and before that John z Men, they did not

(04:30):
purge or remove any of the generals that were appointed
during their time in power.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
One of the top generals that Hijinping appears to have
taken down is Ho Weidong. He's the most senior general
that she himself appointed.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
And this was significant because Ho Weidong, about three or
four years ago, was promoted over a number of other
generals who should have come before him to become the
vice chairman of the Central Military Commission. So it was
extremely surprising given what seemed to be she saying, here's
my guy, I'm willing to promote him over others, to

(05:06):
then suddenly find that General Holwait don't has essentially disappeared
from public. We don't have any specifics about what he's
being investigated for why he has disappeared from public, but
it is very telling that within this purge that even
somebody with such a close relationship to She would come
to this fate.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
China's military is opaque and secretive. If a senior officer
is demoted or fired, their downfall typically only becomes known
when they miss a public event, and even then it's
not always clear what happened or why. But John says
in She's purge of the PLA, a theme has emerged.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
One of the things that Hijipin has done since he's
been in power is try to crack down on corruption
within the military. We understand that was fairly rampant in
the past. For example, there were widespread cases of promotion buying,
commission buying, and we've even had stories about at the

(06:07):
lowest level, especially in the countryside, joining the military is
seen as a way to make one's way up the
economic ladder, secure a relatively stable income. People were paying
thousands of US dollars to be able to get themselves
into the military, and so these are all stories and
instances of corruption that Shijin King has said publicly he

(06:31):
wants to get rid of. He does not want that
in the military.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
One branch of the military that's come under particular scrutiny
the Equipment Development Department, which is responsible for acquiring weapons.
In twenty twenty three, the department issued an unusual warning.
It listed eight issues it was looking into, including leaking
information on projects and army units, and helping certain companies

(06:57):
secure bids. It said the military was investigating these problems
going back.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Years, and that announcement signified to a lot of people
that this investigation, this corruption crackdown, was going to potentially
affect many people, because if you say you are going
to look back into the history of the PLA, that
would suggest that there would be plenty of dirt to
be found on many.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Generals, lots of skeletons in the closet there. Yes, john says,
it appears that she's primary concern is that corruption could
undermine the PLA's effectiveness as a fighting force.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
The soldiers who are going to be doing the fighting
want to be operating under the command of officers they
trust and admire. If that structure is questioned, if the
soldiers who are carrying out the orders. Question how the
officers got to where they were that would be really

(07:59):
undermine morale and potentially the ability of that force to
win a conflict. And so I think that is why
carrying out these purges potentially is such a priority for him.

Speaker 2 (08:11):
And I guess that's even though it's unclear and opaque,
what's driving this completely The fact that she has been
able to get rid of so many generals, I mean
that must say something about his power.

Speaker 1 (08:24):
No, well, I think there is a contradiction here because
on one hand, I think you could say Chijiping is
able to remove generals and maybe even willing to remove
generals that he himself appointed, because he is powerful and
he is intent on ridding the system of corruption, no

(08:46):
matter who it is. At the same time, I think
there is a camp of arguments from observers that perhaps
Chijiping's hand is being forced in these instances, that he
may not have been wanting to purge these specific generals,
but because of political pressures within the party, he has
had to take these actions that he may otherwise have

(09:09):
chosen not to. And unfortunately, given the opaque nature of
China's political system and especially of its military. We have
a very hard time of knowing whether these purges are
a sign of Xijiping's strength. Is he able to do
this and it shows that he has a greater grasp
of power than any of the predecessors that came before,

(09:31):
or is this a sign of challenges to She's power
in that some of his own men are being forced out.
That unfortunately is extremely hard to know.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
For about a decade, President she has repeatedly told the
Chinese military that it needs to prepare to fight and
win wars. It's a tacit acknowledgment that it lacks the
ability to do so. As a result, she is now
pushing hard to restructure the minis military to make it
a better equipped and more effective fighting force. What could

(10:04):
that mean for the US and for the rest of
the world that's after the break. China has the largest
standing army on the planet, with more than two million
active troops. Compare that to the US, which has a

(10:27):
smaller army about one point three million people in uniform.
But Bloombergs John Liu says, while the People's Liberation Army
is big, it doesn't mean it's especially strong.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
If you look instead at capability the United States is
obviously more advanced in terms of its military capability. The
United States is a global power in the real sense.
It's the only nation in the world able to project
military power into every corner of the globe. If it's Iran,

(11:00):
if it's in Latin America, if it's in the Arctic.
The United States has battleships, aircraft carriers, planes, submarines, satellites
that can touch anywhere in the world. China does not happen.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
What China does have is a much more narrow focus
than the US military. For one, China is laser focused
on Taiwan.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
There's a long historic rationale for that. It ultimately comes
down to the Chinese state believing fundamentally that Taiwan is
a part of the Chinese state and willing to go
to war to ensure that it remains that way, and
so the military is designed and built to fight and
win a possible conflict around Taiwan.

Speaker 2 (11:47):
Another priority for China's military the South China Sea.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
So the South China Sea is a very important theater
of operation for the Chinese military. That's because the Chinese
state has a number of heating territorial claims in that
area with Vietnam, with the Philippines, and so the Chinese
military wants to be able to project force and to
claim and protect those claims that it has there. The

(12:14):
other part of the South China Sea is China depends
a great deal on energy exports from the Middle East,
oil coming through the Malacca Strait. That oil has to
come by ships through the South China Sea to get
to China proper. If the United States were able to
close that off, that would undermine China's capabilities in a

(12:36):
tremendous way.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
The Chinese armed forces weren't designed to protect its interests
away from the mainland. John says that's part of the
reason that the military is going through such a big
revamp now.

Speaker 1 (12:52):
The PLA was created as a fighting force for the
Chinese Civil War, and that was a conflict that was
fought primarily on land, and so in the past, the
People's Liberation Army was very focused on land forces, right, tanks,
foot soldiers, trucks. That is not the military that China

(13:13):
needs today, and certainly not the military that China needs
if its primary objective is to fight and win a
conflict around Taiwan. Not if its primary objective is to
contest its territorial disputes in the South China Sea. What
China needs instead is a navy. It needs aircraft, it

(13:34):
needs missiles. And what Chiji Ping has done since he's
taken power in twenty twelve is he's reshaped a military
to put much more emphasis on those parts of its capability.
He made the Rocket Force its own separate fighting force
on par with the army, the air Force, and the navy.

Speaker 2 (13:55):
So John, we have this unprecedented purge of generals by
Xijin Ping at the same time he's restructuring and upgrading
the capabilities of China's armed forces. Should the US be worried?

Speaker 1 (14:08):
So I think today there is no doubt that the
US military is the pre eminent force in the world.
China is second, but it's a distant second. And the
United States spends somewhere around a trillion dollars on its military.
That's more than the nine next largest spenders combined, and

(14:31):
so China is no match for the US globally at
this moment. China, though, is growing that budget. So China's
military spending is going to go up by seven point
two percent this year. It's been rising by more than
six percent annually for the last few decades. The US,
by comparison, we have Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth proposing a

(14:55):
plan to reduce defense spending by I think about eight
percent over the next five years. And if we look
at some of the Congressional Budget Offices projections, there is
actually an expectation that defence spending in the US as
a proportion of GDP is going to decline over the
next five years or so.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
John says this doesn't mean that China is about to
catch up with the United States in terms of military power,
but he says it does reflect China's broadened outlook on
the world.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
So the famous quote from Malzadolng is that political power
grows from the barrel of a gun, and I think
in this context that is an adage changing pain and
the Communist Party believes that quote from Malzadna reminds me
of another adage, which is that anything that you can
win at the negotiating table, you must first be able

(15:46):
to win on the battlefield. And so I think we
are moving, unfortunately into a world where that is becoming
more and more true.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
This is the big take Asia from Bloomberg news I'm wanha.
To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access
to all of bloomberg dot com, subscribe today at Bloomberg
dot com slash podcast Offer. If you like the episode,
make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take Asia
wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find
the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.
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