June 27, 2025 • 9 mins
The overhauled US panel reviewing vaccine data backed the use of only thimerosal-free flu shots for Americans, taking aim at a little-used ingredient that has been falsely linked with autism despite decades of evidence showing it to be safe.
The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or ACIP, voted five to one Thursday with one abstention in a move that would curtail use of larger vaccine vials that use the preservative.
Bloomberg News health reporter Damian Garde joins to discuss this and what else RFK Jr. is doing to reshape vaccine regulations in the US.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's Vaccine
Advisory Committee Committee excuse me, recommended Merkshott to prevent newborns
from getting RSV.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
At the same time, that's.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
A big deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I know, it's a big deal for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean it's right, yeah, right, when we talk about
at least in the past, when we've talked about the
importance of RSV, we talk about importance from kids.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You know that you've had little ones.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah, and I this is pretty new, Like we haven't
had been able to get this from my kids, not
this not this early, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Not this early, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And then we also had the Vaccine Panel moving to
restrict the use of some flu shots for Americans. And
then one more thing, Tim, we had the actual Health
and Human Services Secrety to come out and say that
the US will cut funding to the organization responsible for
vaccinating children in poor countries. So it's a move that
some experts say will result in unnecessary depth. So there's
a lot going on in this space, something that I
(01:25):
think we just take for granted in terms of vaccines,
but there's some debate over it.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well here in the studio with more on these developments
and more. Bloomberg News health reporter Damien Garday joins us
in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. I kind of want to
start a little bit back in time. I think this
is yesterday's news, and then we can get to everything
that happened today. The questions over the vaccine schedule for kids.
This is something that anybody who has a young kid knows.
You you know, you look at this thing, Your doctor
(01:49):
looks at this thing and says, Okay, these are the
recommended vaccines at this age. They work in tandem sort
of with the American Academy of Pediatrics. I believe what's
happening with them from Washington right now.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Right so, the American vaccine schedules recommended by the CDC
not required, but I think for most people. You just
kind of go with what your patrician tells you, and
that's where it comes from. What we learned yesterday is
that the CDC's group of Vaccine Advisors intends to reopen
the book on the vaccine schedule, which, in the abstract,
kicking the tires scientifically on something like that seems perfectly reasonable.
(02:24):
The reason for the alarm that you may have heard
from public health officials is that this is a handpicked
group by Robert F. Kenney, Junior, who famously has advanced
and espoused debunct theories about the safety of vaccines going
back to the nineteen nineties, if not before, so people
are reading the tea leaves. Is this an attack on
the vaccination of young kids, which is something Kennedy has
(02:47):
fixated on for many years and tied various vaccines to
the development of autism and other issues for which there
is just no evidence. So the concern is that when
they reopen the book, their consideration of the evidence behind,
for example, the measles vaccine or anything else's recommended for
young kids will not be even handed, and that this
could be a kind of breadcrumb trail to a dismantling
(03:09):
of public health unitities.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, how does it work in the panel?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
What evidence are they looking at, what research are they
looking at, what goes into determining their decision, or is
it kind of how they feel.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
It's pretty rigorous, So there's a multi step process. Any
new vaccine, which at some point each of these vaccines
was new, must first win approval from the FDA, which
looks at safety and efficacy also pretty rigorously, and then
it goes to this panel of independent advisors to the CDC,
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They pour over
even more of that data and look at things beyond
(03:40):
what the FDA looks at, including the cost and cost
effectiveness of these things, and real world evidence as to
how safe they are, how well they prevent disease, and
what side effects they may have.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
The US does not have the only children in the world,
right there are children all over the world. I'm wondering
how the US vaccine schedule is different than vaccine schedules
in other parts of the world.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
So, at least against like the Big five European nations,
they're pretty much the same. We all vaccinate against about
fifteen of the same childhood diseases. There is some difference
in like hepatitis A. Hepatitis be basically based on prevalence
in different countries. Some countries that's more of a risk
for young kids than it is in others for all
kinds of reasons. The number of individual shots you get varies,
(04:26):
and the US has more of those than for example,
Germany or the United Kingdom. This is a little bit
in the weeds, even though we're vaccinating against largely the
same diseases. In Europe, there are more combination vaccines that
we don't necessarily use in the US, so the number
of needles varies. But I would say by and large Japan,
other comparable nations, we are trying to prevent the same
(04:47):
diseases in our kids.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So they're basically giving a shot that may cover numerous things,
whereas we are doing individual shots.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, and then why is there a difference?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You know, I mean, if I have a little critter,
I don't want to your needles the better. Yeah, exactly,
you know it really I did have a little critic,
which is a big critter now, but I mean, yeah,
like that was something you wanted to limit as much
as possible.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Right, And it boils down to basically, you know the
same way that like reasonable people can disagree, different groups
of experts will look at safety and risk and cost differently.
So one example is measles. In the United States, we
recommend the MMR vaccine, which is measles, mumps and rebella,
and then the chicken pox vaccine separately. There is a
(05:28):
vaccine that has all four of those things together. It
can lead to, in small numbers of cases, seizures, and
the CDC decided years and years ago, eh, better to
do MMR plus V is what they call it. Overseas.
It's largely or in many cases MMRV. And there are
other cases like that where basically reasonable people sort of
equivalents of the CDC and countries around the world came
(05:51):
to different considerations. And some of this does have to
do with cost.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Does it seem like the Secretary of Health and Human
Services is fulfilling problems that he made as he was testifying.
If we remember back a few months ago, it was
pretty contentious and there were some holdouts who ultimately ended
up supporting him because they said, hey, he will not
do the things that the worst critics are saying he
(06:15):
will do. Right.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
The short answer is no. I mean, one specific case
is as you mentioned, it was Senator Bill Cassidy from Louisiana,
who ended up being a doctor who is a doctor
and clearly was, or at least in public, seemed very
pained over this vote that's whether to confirm Kennedy, and
ended up being basically the deciding vote as a result,
and in order to get that vote, according to Cassidy,
(06:38):
Kennedy promised him explicitly that he would not mess with
this particular committee on the CDC.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Now that's Gordon Kennedy.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Kenny, I'm sorry, that's according to Cassidy, Kennedy did not
to my knowledge say that publicly. But I think we
can trust the senator, or at least we have little choice.
But two cut to this June, Kennedy fired all seventeen
of the standing members of this committee and replaced them
with eight people, one of whom resigned before the first meeting.
So they're remaining seven, and they include people with non
traditional backgrounds, not necessarily mds or vaccine experts, and in
(07:10):
a few cases people who have, like Kennedy, echoed those
debunct claims about vaccines causing autism or other safety rests.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, someone would would say that a panel should have
diverse points of view, right, so that you get a
healthier debate. Having said that, is it typical that an
administration like changes this panel completely?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I mean it does change over time, right, it does.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
They're appointed to four year terms by Health and Human
Services secretaries and it's considered serving on this committee is
like a real badge of honor in public health. Whether
you're a vaccinologist, a pediatrician, a registered nurse. You often
it's almost like a minor league baseball system. You will
serve on the working groups that serve this committee, and
then to be selected honor. It is kind of yes,
so to liquid height, maybe not the right term to
(07:54):
fire outright all of the standing members and replace them.
That is unprecedent.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Just yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
The one thing I wanted to get to is that
they may not provide the US funding for vaccinating children
in poor countries, as we learned with the pandemic. Pandemic
doesn't know a border, And like, I wonder about this,
so what are what's top.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Of mind for you? And forgive us it's only thirty seconds. No,
that's right.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
The separate issue, so as you mentioned Kennedy announced that
the United States will no longer fund GAVI, a program
that was founded in part by the United States to
vaccinate children around the world. This is caused for serious
alarm around the globe, as you noted, like the next
COVID is not something that will just stop because of
a border. We need to see what the knock on
effects of this are. But I think I mean the
United States pulling out of funding as the major funder
(08:37):
is a serious concern.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Who needs chat chepto. We just need Damien. Thank you
so much, Damien Garde. Bloomberg News Health for reproduct.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(09:04):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg Business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy, plus global business, finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior's Vaccine
Advisory Committee Committee excuse me, recommended Merkshott to prevent newborns
from getting RSV.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
At the same time, that's.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
A big deal.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I know, it's a big deal for kids.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
I mean it's right, yeah, right, when we talk about
at least in the past, when we've talked about the
importance of RSV, we talk about importance from kids.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
You know that you've had little ones.
Speaker 4 (00:55):
Yeah, and I this is pretty new, Like we haven't
had been able to get this from my kids, not
this not this early, yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Not this early, all right.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
And then we also had the Vaccine Panel moving to
restrict the use of some flu shots for Americans. And
then one more thing, Tim, we had the actual Health
and Human Services Secrety to come out and say that
the US will cut funding to the organization responsible for
vaccinating children in poor countries. So it's a move that
some experts say will result in unnecessary depth. So there's
a lot going on in this space, something that I
(01:25):
think we just take for granted in terms of vaccines,
but there's some debate over it.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
Well here in the studio with more on these developments
and more. Bloomberg News health reporter Damien Garday joins us
in the Bloomberg BusinessWeek Studio. I kind of want to
start a little bit back in time. I think this
is yesterday's news, and then we can get to everything
that happened today. The questions over the vaccine schedule for kids.
This is something that anybody who has a young kid knows.
You you know, you look at this thing, Your doctor
(01:49):
looks at this thing and says, Okay, these are the
recommended vaccines at this age. They work in tandem sort
of with the American Academy of Pediatrics. I believe what's
happening with them from Washington right now.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
Right so, the American vaccine schedules recommended by the CDC
not required, but I think for most people. You just
kind of go with what your patrician tells you, and
that's where it comes from. What we learned yesterday is
that the CDC's group of Vaccine Advisors intends to reopen
the book on the vaccine schedule, which, in the abstract,
kicking the tires scientifically on something like that seems perfectly reasonable.
(02:24):
The reason for the alarm that you may have heard
from public health officials is that this is a handpicked
group by Robert F. Kenney, Junior, who famously has advanced
and espoused debunct theories about the safety of vaccines going
back to the nineteen nineties, if not before, so people
are reading the tea leaves. Is this an attack on
the vaccination of young kids, which is something Kennedy has
(02:47):
fixated on for many years and tied various vaccines to
the development of autism and other issues for which there
is just no evidence. So the concern is that when
they reopen the book, their consideration of the evidence behind,
for example, the measles vaccine or anything else's recommended for
young kids will not be even handed, and that this
could be a kind of breadcrumb trail to a dismantling
(03:09):
of public health unitities.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well, how does it work in the panel?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
What evidence are they looking at, what research are they
looking at, what goes into determining their decision, or is
it kind of how they feel.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
It's pretty rigorous, So there's a multi step process. Any
new vaccine, which at some point each of these vaccines
was new, must first win approval from the FDA, which
looks at safety and efficacy also pretty rigorously, and then
it goes to this panel of independent advisors to the CDC,
the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They pour over
even more of that data and look at things beyond
(03:40):
what the FDA looks at, including the cost and cost
effectiveness of these things, and real world evidence as to
how safe they are, how well they prevent disease, and
what side effects they may have.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
The US does not have the only children in the world,
right there are children all over the world. I'm wondering
how the US vaccine schedule is different than vaccine schedules
in other parts of the world.
Speaker 5 (04:02):
So, at least against like the Big five European nations,
they're pretty much the same. We all vaccinate against about
fifteen of the same childhood diseases. There is some difference
in like hepatitis A. Hepatitis be basically based on prevalence
in different countries. Some countries that's more of a risk
for young kids than it is in others for all
kinds of reasons. The number of individual shots you get varies,
(04:26):
and the US has more of those than for example,
Germany or the United Kingdom. This is a little bit
in the weeds, even though we're vaccinating against largely the
same diseases. In Europe, there are more combination vaccines that
we don't necessarily use in the US, so the number
of needles varies. But I would say by and large Japan,
other comparable nations, we are trying to prevent the same
(04:47):
diseases in our kids.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So they're basically giving a shot that may cover numerous things,
whereas we are doing individual shots.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Yeah, and then why is there a difference?
Speaker 2 (04:57):
You know, I mean, if I have a little critter,
I don't want to your needles the better. Yeah, exactly,
you know it really I did have a little critic,
which is a big critter now, but I mean, yeah,
like that was something you wanted to limit as much
as possible.
Speaker 5 (05:08):
Right, And it boils down to basically, you know the
same way that like reasonable people can disagree, different groups
of experts will look at safety and risk and cost differently.
So one example is measles. In the United States, we
recommend the MMR vaccine, which is measles, mumps and rebella,
and then the chicken pox vaccine separately. There is a
(05:28):
vaccine that has all four of those things together. It
can lead to, in small numbers of cases, seizures, and
the CDC decided years and years ago, eh, better to
do MMR plus V is what they call it. Overseas.
It's largely or in many cases MMRV. And there are
other cases like that where basically reasonable people sort of
equivalents of the CDC and countries around the world came
(05:51):
to different considerations. And some of this does have to
do with cost.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
Does it seem like the Secretary of Health and Human
Services is fulfilling problems that he made as he was testifying.
If we remember back a few months ago, it was
pretty contentious and there were some holdouts who ultimately ended
up supporting him because they said, hey, he will not
do the things that the worst critics are saying he
(06:15):
will do. Right.
Speaker 5 (06:16):
The short answer is no. I mean, one specific case
is as you mentioned, it was Senator Bill Cassidy from Louisiana,
who ended up being a doctor who is a doctor
and clearly was, or at least in public, seemed very
pained over this vote that's whether to confirm Kennedy, and
ended up being basically the deciding vote as a result,
and in order to get that vote, according to Cassidy,
(06:38):
Kennedy promised him explicitly that he would not mess with
this particular committee on the CDC.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
Now that's Gordon Kennedy.
Speaker 5 (06:46):
Kenny, I'm sorry, that's according to Cassidy, Kennedy did not
to my knowledge say that publicly. But I think we
can trust the senator, or at least we have little choice.
But two cut to this June, Kennedy fired all seventeen
of the standing members of this committee and replaced them
with eight people, one of whom resigned before the first meeting.
So they're remaining seven, and they include people with non
traditional backgrounds, not necessarily mds or vaccine experts, and in
(07:10):
a few cases people who have, like Kennedy, echoed those
debunct claims about vaccines causing autism or other safety rests.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Well, someone would would say that a panel should have
diverse points of view, right, so that you get a
healthier debate. Having said that, is it typical that an
administration like changes this panel completely?
Speaker 3 (07:29):
I mean it does change over time, right, it does.
Speaker 5 (07:32):
They're appointed to four year terms by Health and Human
Services secretaries and it's considered serving on this committee is
like a real badge of honor in public health. Whether
you're a vaccinologist, a pediatrician, a registered nurse. You often
it's almost like a minor league baseball system. You will
serve on the working groups that serve this committee, and
then to be selected honor. It is kind of yes,
so to liquid height, maybe not the right term to
(07:54):
fire outright all of the standing members and replace them.
That is unprecedent.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Just yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
The one thing I wanted to get to is that
they may not provide the US funding for vaccinating children
in poor countries, as we learned with the pandemic. Pandemic
doesn't know a border, And like, I wonder about this,
so what are what's top.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Of mind for you? And forgive us it's only thirty seconds. No,
that's right.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
The separate issue, so as you mentioned Kennedy announced that
the United States will no longer fund GAVI, a program
that was founded in part by the United States to
vaccinate children around the world. This is caused for serious
alarm around the globe, as you noted, like the next
COVID is not something that will just stop because of
a border. We need to see what the knock on
effects of this are. But I think I mean the
United States pulling out of funding as the major funder
(08:37):
is a serious concern.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Who needs chat chepto. We just need Damien. Thank you
so much, Damien Garde. Bloomberg News Health for reproduct.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
This is the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com,
the iHeartRadio app, tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(09:04):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
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Tim Stenovec
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