June 13, 2025 • 33 mins
Watch Carol and Tim LIVE every day on YouTube: http://bit.ly/3vTiACF.
Iran fired hundreds of missiles in retaliation for Israel’s airstrikes that targeted Tehran’s military and nuclear infrastructure, broadening a conflict that threatens to engulf the region and roil global markets.
Israel said it identified missiles launched from the Islamic Republic and reported explosions from interceptions and falling debris from incoming projectiles. An Israeli official said US forces are helping to intercept the Iranian missiles. The Iranian attack, which Tehran said entailed hundreds of ballistic missiles, is the most forceful step yet by Tehran since Israel’s overnight raids killed top Iranian generals and badly damaged key military infrastructure.
While it’s unclear if Israel’s air defenses have been pierced, markets took another hit from the surge in tensions. US stocks fell to new session lows, oil prices extended their gains above 7%, while the US dollar and gold rose.
This episode features:
- Gregg Roman, Executive Director of the Middle East Forum
- Dana Stroul, Senior Fellow and Director of Research at the the Washington Institute for Near East Policy
- Jay Neveloff, Partner and Chair of Real Estate, US at Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer
- Elissa Sangster, Chief Executive Officer of the Forté Foundation
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg business
Week Daily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders
stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Latest headlines Iran firing a barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel.
All of Israel's under fire. The military of Israel says
it does come hours after Israeli airstrikes targeted Iranian nuclear
and ballistic facilities, killing senior officials, including the commander of
Iran's Revolutionary Guard.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I just want to point out that our blog, and
these are folks that have been following this situation so closely,
our editorial team, they are pointing out that the rapid
pace of the Iranian retaliation against Israel, with missiles now
fired hours after Israel's airstrikes, our team pointing out stands
in contrast to previous episodes with Tehran. In some of
(01:09):
those tit for tat moments, it was a matter of
weeks and a lot of rhetoric before there was a
military response. Their point is this was a pretty quick response.
We're talking in less than a twenty four hour period.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah. They note that the ball is now again in
Israel's court, and the question is will it see this
as a response it can tolerate, or will it soon
hit iron again. In turn, we want to bring in
executive director of the independent nonprofit a Middle East Forum,
a Greg Roman. The Middle East Forum works too, in
its own words, focus on ways to defeat radical Islam,
work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel, develop strategies to contain
(01:42):
Iron and deal with the great advances of anarchy. Greg
joins us as I mentioned from Philadelphia. Greg, good to
have you back on the program. The Forum oat with
a piece yesterday before these strikes that says, quote, the
greater strategic risk is not a decisive Israeli strike, but
allowing a nuclear Iran to feel immune behind its own deterrent. So,
(02:03):
in your view, were these strikes warranted?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
These strikes were warranted, and as its ambassador Bolton said,
the plan for this to take place was actually going
all the way back to April. But President Trump asked
Prime Minister net Niahu to give him a sixty day
window to be able to lay away Israeli strikes or
the plan for is really action against the Iran And
on day sixty one, Israel decided how to act on
its own and unilaterally go after Iran's nuclear missiles program,
(02:30):
nuclear weapons and missile program. The reason being that those
sites that you're now seeing of Iranian missiles falling on
Tel Aviv in civilian areas, if any one of them
had a radiological, chemical, biological, or god forbid, nuclear device,
tel Aviv might no longer be with us anymore. So
Israel decided how to act fast, had to add at first,
and it will not stop until the entire Iranian enrichment,
(02:53):
nuclear and missile program has been eradicated.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Do you see Israel acting as a proxy for the
United States here? Obviously, the US and the President Trump
that is, has been certainly working with a mission to
get some kind of deal when it comes to nuclear
capabilities in Iran.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
That has certainly been a goal.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I don't see this as a proxy. I see as
a partner to the US's national security interests. For the
better part of for presidential administrations, the Iranian nuclear program
is supposed a threat to the United States. However, the
chosen tool for the US has been diplomacy, especially since
the two thousand and three Iranian freeze on its nuclear
weapons program, the military elements of not the civilian elements
(03:33):
of it, but new intelligence that came into the United
States and the DIA, the Defensive Intelligence Agency, at the
beginning of May, showed that the Iranians were one week
away from a nuclear weapon, and a comparable report from
the Viennese the Austrian intelligence agencies said that Iran was
actively marching towards a bomb. Now this is a European
ally of the United States and Israels saying this.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Not the US nor Israel.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
And I think what really finally encapsulated the US position
of seeing Israel as a partner to have it willingly
kinetically strike Iran's nuclear program was when Secretary of Defense
Peter Hegseth said on Tuesday that he believed that Iran
was developing a nuclear weapon.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Can I ask you, I mean, Tim and I kind
of we have this conversation or some of us do, like,
who is it that determines who should have nuclear capabilities?
I mean, I know, if you go back. I remember
studying college the concept of nuclear deterrence, right, you have it,
I have it. Nobody uses it because we know what
the outcome is. Israel is widely believed, some say, to
possess nuclear weapons.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
So how was it that we decide Iran shouldn't. I'm
playing a little.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Bit Devil's advocate here, but I'm trying to understand how
peace actually happens in the world.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Well, now, with the Iran being a signator to the
Non Proliferation Treaty the NPT, and also Israel not being
a signator to that treaty, just under international law, Iran
had an obligation to not develop a military weapons program.
But beyond that, I think it was just the common sense.
Israel has never instigated nor started a war that it
wanted to be able to do in terms of offensive
(05:04):
capability to either try to take more territory or to
try to impinge on the rights of countries that didn't
attack it first. Unless you look at nineteen sixty seven,
where you had seven Arab armies getting ready to invade Israel,
and yes they had a preemptive strike at that time.
But if we look back in nineteen eighty one, when
they struck the Iraqi reactor two thousand and seven, when
they short the Syrian reactor a now June of twenty
(05:26):
twenty five, it was an attempt to stop a program
whose sole design.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
Was to destroy the Jewish state.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So I think Israel, with its strategic ambiguity that it's
had for the last sixty years with this nuclear program,
still maintains the right to have that in so far
as it relates to the fact that the Jewish people,
amongst maybe the Armenians and a few others, have been
one of the only victims of a worldwide genocide attempt
by a dictator. Wherein the Iranians prior to nineteen seventy
nine had peaceful relations with Israel. So the Iranian intents
(05:56):
was to create a niclar device to destroy other state.
The Israeli intent for this program is to be able
to defend its state from destruction.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Greg, How is Israel going to know when Iran's nuclear
program has been destroyed to its uh in a way
that the country sees is sufficient.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Well, there's three different indicators through Ellen Sigan and human
first electronics intelligence think of satellite reconnaissance being able to
actually see not just the images that you can take
with a deep range camera on the surface of Iran's program,
but also what you can do through different sort of
thermoscopic imaging. The second, in terms of signal intelligence, Israel
had indicators that Iran had reactivated an explosives line which
(06:40):
was meant only for the purpose of being able to
create a detonation device for fissile material. In terms of
human intelligence, Iran has had a deep penetration of its
Government of Security Organs GREG and of its nuclear program
by Israeli intelligence.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think discreet indicators will give it a sign.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We only have a minute left here, but another headline
crossing at least two Israeli fighter jets have been shot
down over Iran. That's, according to NA also a headline
the US is helping Israel down Iran's missiles. A US
official tells Axios. First your reaction to the two Israeli
fighter jets being shot down over Iran.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I think Israel Hennis plans in place through a sixty
six y nine rescue unit on countries which border Iran
and reps even in the country to attempt to rescue
those pilots. And in terms of the US helping Israel
with its missile defense. This is something that's placed in
April and October of last year. And President Trump had
a promise this morning that he would further assist Israel
with its efforts to down Iranian missiles targeting the Jewish state.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Hey, listen, just got about thirty forty seconds here, Greg,
You know, it feels a little complicated, messy. Israel worried
about its state, as you have said, at a time
when it continues to push back it seems on a
Palestinian independence state. I mean, just got about thirty seconds.
Where are the lines drawn? Where are the fair lines?
Just quickly?
Speaker 6 (07:55):
Well, right now, there are no alliance that draw.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
The ambition for the Palestinians to have their own state
die with October seventh when Hamas brutally murdered over one
thousand Israeli civilians and military members alike after that daring, dashing,
brazen attack.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Idea for there to be an independent Palestinian state might
take place after the Iranian is dealt with and you
have Pelstonian people who want to have peace with Israel
rather than violence.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
All right, time will certainly tell Executive director of the
Independent nonprofit Middle East to Forum. Greg Roman joining us here.
We continue to watch the headlines and the market selling
off on this Friday. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five e's during it.
Listen on Apple Karplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg
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Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right now, we want to get to Dana Stroll to
get her view specifically and what we've seen over in
the Middle East. She is Senior Fellow and Director of
Research at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Joining
us from Washington, d C. Dan, just your initial thoughts.
We've been talking non style here at Bloomberg our last
two hours, but really all day here at Bloomberg, starting
(09:05):
in the wee hours and really yesterday afternoon and into
the late night hours last night. What's first and foremost
on your mind right now as you watch the activities
between Iran and Israel.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
Well, first of all, I think this is very different
from what we saw last year. And in both April
and October of last year, Israel did strike inside Iran,
but in both of those cases it was one night.
It was a couple wave of air strikes and it
was over. This is different right now, the Israeli government
is talking about a campaign, so we're talking about days,
(09:39):
if not weeks. The target set is expansive, up to
twenty senior Iranian officials, missile strikes around the Supreme Leader
Ayatola Hamiene's residence, as well as nuclear installations, military installations.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Air defense, etc.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
So an expansive campaign, and Israel clearly has been preparing
for this very a long time.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
So going to go on for a while.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about your experience.
You served during twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three.
You were Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East.
It's the Pentagon's top civilian official with responsibility for that region.
Did you ever think when you were in that position
that in our lifetimes we'd see a conflict such as
(10:25):
this between the US and Israel. I mean, excuse me,
between Israel and Iran.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
No, Frankly, there's a lot that we've seen since October
seventh that I would not put on my bingo card.
Speaker 8 (10:35):
We generally had views about.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Iran's support for terrorist proxies Hesbalala and Lebanon, Hamas and Gaza,
the militias in Iraq and Syria, Iran's client state Syria,
but charl asad, all of that is basically collapsed at
this point.
Speaker 8 (10:54):
So I would not have predicted any of that.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
The idea that we'd have Israel striking inside Iran twice
last year, a multilateral air defense coalition standing up to
defeat Iran's attack last year, none of that are scenarios
that we actively planned for when I was in the Pentagon.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
And so now fast.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
Forward to today, we have, you know, in a situation
where the past five presidential administrations, both Republican and Democratic,
have looked at and contemplated military action against Iran and
its nuclear program and have decided to pursue diplomacy and
negotiations instead. And every president says the military option is
(11:33):
on the table, and we have never seen a US
president decide to execute that military option, and yet today
we have Israel doing it.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Israel certainly has the capabilities to defend itself against these strikes,
as we've seen play out over the last few hours.
But I'm curious if you think the threat to Israel
right now is existential.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
I do not think it is existential yet, but it's serious.
So Israel has since October seventh been under threats from
multiple threat from multiple fronts, and they all relate back
to Iran. And what we're seeing, even in the less
than twenty four hours since Israel initiated it strikes inside
Iran is waves of ballistic missile strikes after that drone
(12:17):
strike that was defeated earlier this morning.
Speaker 8 (12:19):
So I believe as we speak, the third wave of
Iranian ballistic missiles as targeting Israel.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
And we know that there are some injuries, and we
know that some of those ballistic missiles have actually impacted
in downtown Tel Aviv. And so part of the question
right now is how long can Israel effectively defend itself
by itself. We have US military air defense on the
ground in Israel, and we know that there are ballistic
missile defense capable Navy destroyers on their way to the
(12:49):
Eastern Mediterranean to support the active defense of Israel. So we,
I think, can reasonably assume that if this goes on
for a really long time, Israel would be under strained
to defend itself by itself. And the big question is
what the Trump administration is going to do to put
skin in the game.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What do you think it's going to do?
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Well.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
We've seen indications that the Trump administration has already authorized
certain kinds of military support, whether it's deconflicting airspace, whether
it's working alongside the Jordanian Air Force and the Israeli
Air Force this morning to defeat those one hundred attacked
rones that are on launched from Iran.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
And again, we do.
Speaker 7 (13:29):
Haves military on the ground in Israel actively participating in
air defense. And now we're putting more US posture, more
military capabilities on the ground in the Middle East. So
that's a serious signal of commitment from the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Commitment is one thing, but an all out conflict between
the US and Iran is a different thing. Do you
see the possibility of that escalating there? Given the support
that the US has committed, we are on the.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
Knife's edge of escalation.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
So right now we are seeing Israel execute a very precise,
very deliberate, very well planned operation.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
The reports of collateral.
Speaker 7 (14:12):
Damage are very minimal at this point, and right now
there have been no Israeli deaths, but it looks like
the Iranians have targeted civilian centers in Israel, and whether
or not Israel feels compelled to expand its target set,
how Iran responds to that. There's no question that this
could escalate. And of course there are tens of thousands
(14:32):
of US forces across the Middle East, five big air bases,
a ton of energy infrastructure across the Middle East, and
the Iranians might decide to target that as well.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Dana, None of this happens in a vacuum.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And I just think about the last couple of years,
right Hamas on Israel, Israel on Palestine, and then there
were other outbreaks, if you will, and I'm just trying
to understand this. On top of it, We've had Oman's
government come out saying Israel's actions were reckless and would
(15:06):
undermine regional security. Other Arab states echoed those comments, including
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar. I think
about the United States just in the Middle East region,
and it seemed like everything was let's.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Make deals and let's forge forward.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Help me understand kind of where we are in the
Middle East and who is I really want to understand
who's aligning with whom and what the implications of that are,
and then later on China Russia. Like I keep going
back to kind of how we started at two pm
Wall Street time, help me understand how this is all
being carved up in terms of relationships potentially well.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Such an important issue and such an important challenge. So
I think the theme of President Trump's visit when he
went to those three golf countries was business deals, commerce
and a future based on transit, actionalism and economic interests.
And what he's certainly heard from those Gulf countries is
this region has been at war for a very long time,
(16:08):
and it's been in a really intense period of war
since October seventh. And war is not good for business.
It's not good for our economic growth. So we want
to calm things down and focus on diplomacy. But none
of those leaders would say that Iran is not the
driver of instability in the Middle East. Iran has an illicit,
(16:28):
illegal nuclear weapons program. In fact, just on Monday this
week you had the IAEA come out and say there
is no possible civilian explanation for the nuclear steps that
Iran is taking. We have that deadline coming up at
the Security Council in New York for whether sanctions on
Iran for its nuclear steps will snap back into place.
(16:49):
And it's Iran who funded Hasbalah and armed and trained
Hisbala in Lebanon.
Speaker 8 (16:54):
Hamas and Gaza.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
Made sure that bsharl Asad in Syria could survive as
long as he did, dropping chemis weapons, barrel bombs, torturing
and starving his own people. It's Aron who is arming
and directing and funding the Huthis and Yemen and militias
in Iraq, all of whom do not have at heart
piece or regional stability as a priority for any of
(17:16):
these terrorists. Militias are proxy non state actors.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
You're going to have to come back at some point, Dana,
Thank you so much. Dana Stroul joining us.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
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Speaker 2 (17:45):
So, just so everybody knows, we've been planning to talk
about commercial real estate at exactly this moment, but this
is the news business. Things change quickly. We have with
us Jay Neveloff, partner and Chair of Real Estate US
at the law firm Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer, where he
folks is on commercial and residential projects throughout the US.
We're talking development, We're talking financing, We're talking everything. Jay
(18:07):
joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. We
are going to talk real estate, Jay, but I kind
of want to bring everybody into our conversation that we
were having a little earlier. As you walked into the studio,
I pose the same question to you that I asked
Dana Stroll, who is Senior Fellow and Director of Research
at the Washington Institute for a Near Policy. She did
serve for several years as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
(18:29):
for the Middle East, which is the Pentagon's top civilian
official with responsibility for the region. I asked her if
she'd I asked you the same question that I asked her,
which was, did you ever think you'd live to see
the day where we'd see an escalation such as this
between Iran and Israel? And you said you did.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
But my response was most definitely. It was only a
matter of time before Israel had to take the offensive
and neutralize the weapons that are in Iran. This is
an ideal time to do it. President Trump has made
it clear that he's going to be supporting Israel. But
President Trump is looking for a lasting piece, and I believe,
as I believe President Trump believes that the way to
(19:06):
get to a lasting priest is to stand up to bullies,
to stand up to things that countries that aren't abiding
by nuclear proliferation treaties. And I think that's what we saw,
and I think that we're going to continue to see.
The goals got to be to have a lasting piece,
and what we've been doing appeasing hasn't worked in the past.
Hopefully this tact will be successful.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You know, it's interesting and I think you know, you're
a business leader. I'm assumed you're very involved in your community,
and I'm just curious, you know why. You know, you've
obviously watched the situation at least, and I'm sure you
have folks that you talk back to in Israel, you know,
talk to us about you know, kind of your vantage
(19:48):
point in you know, this situation.
Speaker 9 (19:53):
I actually right before I came on, was texting with
one of my colleagues who is in Israel with a
husband for a family event. They were we were talking
about whether she's going to be able to get out
of Israel come back to the United States. And right
now the airspace is closed and they have a variety
of flights. It's difficult to live under the constant threat.
(20:14):
And I know that Israel's had tremendous defenses, They've had
success with the Iron Dome. But we've got to do
We've got to take a different tack. What we've been
doing for the past decade plus two decades hasn't worked.
They need a lasting piece and hopefully this will be
attack to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So we should note that this is all connected to
the markets in the global economy. We spent a good
portion of our program talking about what was happening with markets,
what was happening with oil. The FED is meeting next week.
If we see a spike in oil prices, we could
see the rate path for the Federal Reserve change. In
your position advising clients on real estate matters, you think
(20:57):
a lot about interest rates. How do you look at
a situation like this actually affecting your business world.
Speaker 9 (21:04):
I believe that the impact of the stock market over
the past several months that we've seen with the volatility
and yes it went down, that it came back up.
I know today the market's down by a material amount.
Those are reasons to invest in real estate. And I
think that we're seeing that we talked about, or you
mentioned a new name of our firm. We merged about
(21:26):
a week ago, so a part of a big global firm.
And what I'm seeing and that I did not expect
to say, is a tremendous interest in inbound investment in
the United States real estate. You have seen, I have seen,
and we're only in a position for the past two
or three weeks where we're meeting with other clients where
we're interacting The inquiries that I'm getting for inband investment
(21:48):
from firm clients, the bigger firm clients surprised me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It didn't.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
It didn't surprise me. It would not have surprised me
if I thought about it, because I see that real
estate and is getting a greater allocation of investment funds
from private equity funds, from family offices. New York real estate,
Gateway City real estate is more stable than the stock market,
and that's what we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Well, that's interesting because we've had a lot of conversations
today where folks are saying, okay, and we're asking is
the USN investible right? And we're seeing a reallocation of
assets overseas. Some are saying it's just a rebalancing after
many years of just so much money flowing into the
United States, and so it's a reallocation of you know,
kind of rebalancing of your portfolio. Do you think that's
(22:35):
the case or you are saying, oh wow, saying that
you're seeing money come in.
Speaker 9 (22:39):
I'm seeing money come in. And I actually believe, and
I say this to my clients regularly, that this is
the unique opportunity in time to invest in equity and
real estate. What you're I'm seeing that people need to transact.
People who are in deals with loans that have protured
or almost maturing, right, they need to transact. The values
are low. They need to bring in new money into
these There's a lot of money that's on the sidelines
(23:03):
waiting to go into real estate. And I'm a buyer
in this market.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
One thing I'm going to ask you, oh.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Wait, a hold on a buyer in commercial residential, but
you can't. We can't just say commercial, but commer but
class A, class B. I mean, there's so many fine.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
We could be specific through the classes, but in jet
and concept, I'm a buyer. I believe that there is
a need to do something with deals. People at private
equity funds are turned out because of COVID and everything else.
Lenders are coming back, the commercial banks are coming back
into the market. The alternative lenders have been big in
the market, and I think we're going to see a
(23:39):
shift from from people focused on debt to people focusing
on equity.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
What I want to ask you to is, in terms
of the uncertainty that we've seen in our world, uh
oh to say since almost the beginning of the year,
but certainly since President Trump took office, I am curious
that whether or not you are seeing certain in real
estate projects, commercial real estate projects.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Not happen because of that uncertainty.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You're saying money's coming into the United States, But I
am curious whether or not things have slowed down because
of the uncertainty.
Speaker 9 (24:11):
One of the things that's happened that you've seen a
slow down is evaluating new development deals and that's probably
a direct result of the tariffs and how the tariffs
keep changing. But it's hard for a lender, it's hard
for an investor to come up with a budget that
they can be comfortable with and projections. So I see
a number of people sitting on the sidelines on development deals,
including lenders.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You do see that, Okay, Jay, You've spent a lot
of time working with the Trump with President Trump over
the years. Are you still in touch with him right now?
Speaker 7 (24:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
When did to explain the relationship for people who aren't
familiar with the work that you've done for the president?
Speaker 9 (24:48):
I would say that I was his primary real estate
lawyer for a few decades.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
But when did you still work for the Trump organization?
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Now?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Work with the Trump organization now? I don't.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
I actually live next door to one of the sons
on one of the golf courses, but I was supposed
to be more involved in the businesses during the first administration,
and it just made sense for me not to speak
speak with him directly. But yes, it was a long
standing the relationship. I've worked on most of his real
(25:25):
estate deals and it was a terrific experience.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
One last question, and we've got to unfortunately get back
to certainly the day's events. But I do wonder, Jay,
in this environment, do you feel like there is you know,
on a day, we're again a twenty four hour news
cycle that just stuff just keeps coming at us, and
it's difficult for business leaders to make decisions. Do you
see that the environment is getting more certain or uncertain
in this environment?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
In terms of real estate, I think the for you guys, yeah,
but I think about in general.
Speaker 9 (25:52):
Yeah, I can do it with through my eyes. I
think interest rates have stabilized. You're able to underwrite deals
based on that. Seen and interest rates are go hand
in hand. And again I think the dynamics of deals
are they need people need to transact, and I think
the environment. We've seen real estate values hold steady during
(26:15):
uncertainty about tariffs and the stockwalker going down, and I
just believe I'm bullish on real estate.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's a hard asset, right and longer term to hold
up today, Yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Stockwalks gold is up, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah exactly, but seen as a safe haven. And so
hopefully we can have you come back at a more
calmer time. But we appreciate you kind of as we
have to kind of navigate a lot on this Friday,
Jay Naveloff. He is a partner and Chair of Real
Estate of US at the law firm Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Joining us here in studio. Do come back.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five East during
Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
A lot going on this week.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
We did also know that recently the US Supreme Court
revived a job bias lawsuit bought by a woman who
says she suffered so called reverse discrimination because she's straight,
in a ruling that makes it easier to bring similar
cases to trial in parts of the country now. The
justices unanimously said a federal appeals court was wrong to
require workers in majority groups, including white people, men, and heterosexuals,
(27:26):
to meet a more difficult test than others that have
historically faced discrimination. Just some of our backdrop when it
comes to the changing workplace landscape. Curious to see what
our next guest has to say about this and where
women are in all of this. Alisa Sankster is Chief
executive officer at the Forte Foundation, joining us today from
the annual Women's NBA Leadership Conference that is being held
(27:48):
in Denver, Colorado. Alisa, good to have you here with us.
Tell us about what you are hearing and what's top
of mind in terms of some of the subjects at
the conference, considering our backdrop, our macro backdrop when it
comes to women and others in today's society and workplace.
Speaker 10 (28:08):
That's great, thanks, Carol. Yeah, it's wonderful to be here
here at this NBA Women's Leadership Conference. We really are
talking a lot about advancement for women. We're talking about
the investment in that MBA. Many of the women attending
are about to embark upon that journey in a full
time MBA program, and they're excited about their potential for
business leadership and looking forward to the next two years
(28:33):
learning about that and building a network and community of
other business leaders that they can move forward with into leadership.
So it's a really great group that we've gathered.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
How's the pipeline looking right now. We spent some time
at Cisco Live twenty twenty five earlier this week, and
we spoke to Franktseutas, who handles a lot as an
executive chief, People, Policy and Purpose officer at the company
in addition to other roles too. And one question that
we asked her was just about why there aren't more
female executives right now in the C suite. I'm curious
(29:07):
your thoughts on that.
Speaker 10 (29:10):
Sure, I think there's a lot of data from the
NBA outcomes that we have here showing how women are
lagging behind you. So, as usual, we've seen some mixed results.
We know that that NBA is an investment that pays
off in terms of salary by about fifty one percent
increase for both men and women, but we also know
(29:30):
that the pay gap narrows. And I think to your question,
the things that we see in women post MBA. They
have fewer direct reports, they have a budget that is
smaller that they manage compared to their male counterparts. They're
not getting as many promotions, and they're you know, more
levels away from the CEO. And I think all of
(29:51):
those things are important for companies to track and pay
attention to. So what is it that is holding women back,
especially women nbas who are this great talent pool for
future leadership? And business and companies need to, you know,
really build systems that help to track and make sure
there is a movement towards the top for those women.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
One thing that we wanted to talk to you about
is what we've seen come from companies, at least publicly,
in the wake of the way that these DEI programs
have become essentially verbonden at these companies thanks to what
the Trump administration has said publicly about them and in
fact the way that he has tried to root out
(30:34):
DEI programs. And what we've learned from our Bloomberg News
reporting and from talking to folks is that, well, we're
not necessarily changing the way that we're We're not necessarily
changing this stuff a lot. What we're doing is we're
changing the way that we talk about it. We're making
these programs more inclusive. Maybe we're changing the names. What
are you hearing and how does that affect your world?
Speaker 10 (30:54):
Yeah, it's a great question because over the years, we
really have seen the pendulum swing from one end to
the other and everywhere in between. And we're really focused
as an organization, and I think many of the companies
we talk to focused on inclusion, opportunity, for all. We
spent yesterday talking a lot about how to make the
systems fair and how to focus more on the outcomes
(31:16):
of the work we're doing and creating these inclusive work
environments where everyone does feel represented, valued, respected, and that
that's important. And I think all companies and all employees
want a place that as diverse perspectives and backgrounds, but
they also want everyone to feel, as I said, respected
(31:37):
and valued as they work every day, and that is
for majority and minority groups.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Melyssa, is it harder? I mean, in today's environment.
Speaker 8 (31:47):
It is harder. It's not.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
It's not impossible, and it's hard because you go every
day and it feels maybe a little heavier than it
used to feel. And no one wants to go to
work feeling that kind of heaviness. But there's hope, and
there's a way forward, and there's lots of great things
that we can do, and not to dwell too much
on the past, but to look to the future and
how can we make things better, and how can we
(32:11):
make things that adhere to the rules that are being
put out there, but also that still get the good
work done.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Listen, So glad we could find some time to connect
with you on what's been a super super busy day.
Good luck with everything at the conference. Alissa Sangster. She's
chief executive officer of Forte Foundation. Joining us from Denver, Colorado.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
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the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(32:56):
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Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Bloomberg business
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stay ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends
shaping today's complex economy. Plus global business finance and tech
(00:23):
news as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast
with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Latest headlines Iran firing a barrage of ballistic missiles at Israel.
All of Israel's under fire. The military of Israel says
it does come hours after Israeli airstrikes targeted Iranian nuclear
and ballistic facilities, killing senior officials, including the commander of
Iran's Revolutionary Guard.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
I just want to point out that our blog, and
these are folks that have been following this situation so closely,
our editorial team, they are pointing out that the rapid
pace of the Iranian retaliation against Israel, with missiles now
fired hours after Israel's airstrikes, our team pointing out stands
in contrast to previous episodes with Tehran. In some of
(01:09):
those tit for tat moments, it was a matter of
weeks and a lot of rhetoric before there was a
military response. Their point is this was a pretty quick response.
We're talking in less than a twenty four hour period.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Yeah. They note that the ball is now again in
Israel's court, and the question is will it see this
as a response it can tolerate, or will it soon
hit iron again. In turn, we want to bring in
executive director of the independent nonprofit a Middle East Forum,
a Greg Roman. The Middle East Forum works too, in
its own words, focus on ways to defeat radical Islam,
work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel, develop strategies to contain
(01:42):
Iron and deal with the great advances of anarchy. Greg
joins us as I mentioned from Philadelphia. Greg, good to
have you back on the program. The Forum oat with
a piece yesterday before these strikes that says, quote, the
greater strategic risk is not a decisive Israeli strike, but
allowing a nuclear Iran to feel immune behind its own deterrent. So,
(02:03):
in your view, were these strikes warranted?
Speaker 4 (02:07):
These strikes were warranted, and as its ambassador Bolton said,
the plan for this to take place was actually going
all the way back to April. But President Trump asked
Prime Minister net Niahu to give him a sixty day
window to be able to lay away Israeli strikes or
the plan for is really action against the Iran And
on day sixty one, Israel decided how to act on
its own and unilaterally go after Iran's nuclear missiles program,
(02:30):
nuclear weapons and missile program. The reason being that those
sites that you're now seeing of Iranian missiles falling on
Tel Aviv in civilian areas, if any one of them
had a radiological, chemical, biological, or god forbid, nuclear device,
tel Aviv might no longer be with us anymore. So
Israel decided how to act fast, had to add at first,
and it will not stop until the entire Iranian enrichment,
(02:53):
nuclear and missile program has been eradicated.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Do you see Israel acting as a proxy for the
United States here? Obviously, the US and the President Trump
that is, has been certainly working with a mission to
get some kind of deal when it comes to nuclear
capabilities in Iran.
Speaker 5 (03:10):
That has certainly been a goal.
Speaker 4 (03:12):
I don't see this as a proxy. I see as
a partner to the US's national security interests. For the
better part of for presidential administrations, the Iranian nuclear program
is supposed a threat to the United States. However, the
chosen tool for the US has been diplomacy, especially since
the two thousand and three Iranian freeze on its nuclear
weapons program, the military elements of not the civilian elements
(03:33):
of it, but new intelligence that came into the United
States and the DIA, the Defensive Intelligence Agency, at the
beginning of May, showed that the Iranians were one week
away from a nuclear weapon, and a comparable report from
the Viennese the Austrian intelligence agencies said that Iran was
actively marching towards a bomb. Now this is a European
ally of the United States and Israels saying this.
Speaker 6 (03:54):
Not the US nor Israel.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
And I think what really finally encapsulated the US position
of seeing Israel as a partner to have it willingly
kinetically strike Iran's nuclear program was when Secretary of Defense
Peter Hegseth said on Tuesday that he believed that Iran
was developing a nuclear weapon.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Can I ask you, I mean, Tim and I kind
of we have this conversation or some of us do, like,
who is it that determines who should have nuclear capabilities?
I mean, I know, if you go back. I remember
studying college the concept of nuclear deterrence, right, you have it,
I have it. Nobody uses it because we know what
the outcome is. Israel is widely believed, some say, to
possess nuclear weapons.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
So how was it that we decide Iran shouldn't. I'm
playing a little.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
Bit Devil's advocate here, but I'm trying to understand how
peace actually happens in the world.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Well, now, with the Iran being a signator to the
Non Proliferation Treaty the NPT, and also Israel not being
a signator to that treaty, just under international law, Iran
had an obligation to not develop a military weapons program.
But beyond that, I think it was just the common sense.
Israel has never instigated nor started a war that it
wanted to be able to do in terms of offensive
(05:04):
capability to either try to take more territory or to
try to impinge on the rights of countries that didn't
attack it first. Unless you look at nineteen sixty seven,
where you had seven Arab armies getting ready to invade Israel,
and yes they had a preemptive strike at that time.
But if we look back in nineteen eighty one, when
they struck the Iraqi reactor two thousand and seven, when
they short the Syrian reactor a now June of twenty
(05:26):
twenty five, it was an attempt to stop a program
whose sole design.
Speaker 6 (05:30):
Was to destroy the Jewish state.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
So I think Israel, with its strategic ambiguity that it's
had for the last sixty years with this nuclear program,
still maintains the right to have that in so far
as it relates to the fact that the Jewish people,
amongst maybe the Armenians and a few others, have been
one of the only victims of a worldwide genocide attempt
by a dictator. Wherein the Iranians prior to nineteen seventy
nine had peaceful relations with Israel. So the Iranian intents
(05:56):
was to create a niclar device to destroy other state.
The Israeli intent for this program is to be able
to defend its state from destruction.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Greg, How is Israel going to know when Iran's nuclear
program has been destroyed to its uh in a way
that the country sees is sufficient.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
Well, there's three different indicators through Ellen Sigan and human
first electronics intelligence think of satellite reconnaissance being able to
actually see not just the images that you can take
with a deep range camera on the surface of Iran's program,
but also what you can do through different sort of
thermoscopic imaging. The second, in terms of signal intelligence, Israel
had indicators that Iran had reactivated an explosives line which
(06:40):
was meant only for the purpose of being able to
create a detonation device for fissile material. In terms of
human intelligence, Iran has had a deep penetration of its
Government of Security Organs GREG and of its nuclear program
by Israeli intelligence.
Speaker 6 (06:54):
I think discreet indicators will give it a sign.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
We only have a minute left here, but another headline
crossing at least two Israeli fighter jets have been shot
down over Iran. That's, according to NA also a headline
the US is helping Israel down Iran's missiles. A US
official tells Axios. First your reaction to the two Israeli
fighter jets being shot down over Iran.
Speaker 4 (07:16):
I think Israel Hennis plans in place through a sixty
six y nine rescue unit on countries which border Iran
and reps even in the country to attempt to rescue
those pilots. And in terms of the US helping Israel
with its missile defense. This is something that's placed in
April and October of last year. And President Trump had
a promise this morning that he would further assist Israel
with its efforts to down Iranian missiles targeting the Jewish state.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Hey, listen, just got about thirty forty seconds here, Greg,
You know, it feels a little complicated, messy. Israel worried
about its state, as you have said, at a time
when it continues to push back it seems on a
Palestinian independence state. I mean, just got about thirty seconds.
Where are the lines drawn? Where are the fair lines?
Just quickly?
Speaker 6 (07:55):
Well, right now, there are no alliance that draw.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
The ambition for the Palestinians to have their own state
die with October seventh when Hamas brutally murdered over one
thousand Israeli civilians and military members alike after that daring, dashing,
brazen attack.
Speaker 6 (08:08):
But yeah, the.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Idea for there to be an independent Palestinian state might
take place after the Iranian is dealt with and you
have Pelstonian people who want to have peace with Israel
rather than violence.
Speaker 3 (08:17):
All right, time will certainly tell Executive director of the
Independent nonprofit Middle East to Forum. Greg Roman joining us here.
We continue to watch the headlines and the market selling
off on this Friday. This is Bloomberg Business Week Daily.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five e's during it.
Listen on Apple Karplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg
Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Right now, we want to get to Dana Stroll to
get her view specifically and what we've seen over in
the Middle East. She is Senior Fellow and Director of
Research at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. Joining
us from Washington, d C. Dan, just your initial thoughts.
We've been talking non style here at Bloomberg our last
two hours, but really all day here at Bloomberg, starting
(09:05):
in the wee hours and really yesterday afternoon and into
the late night hours last night. What's first and foremost
on your mind right now as you watch the activities
between Iran and Israel.
Speaker 7 (09:18):
Well, first of all, I think this is very different
from what we saw last year. And in both April
and October of last year, Israel did strike inside Iran,
but in both of those cases it was one night.
It was a couple wave of air strikes and it
was over. This is different right now, the Israeli government
is talking about a campaign, so we're talking about days,
(09:39):
if not weeks. The target set is expansive, up to
twenty senior Iranian officials, missile strikes around the Supreme Leader
Ayatola Hamiene's residence, as well as nuclear installations, military installations.
Speaker 8 (09:53):
Air defense, etc.
Speaker 7 (09:55):
So an expansive campaign, and Israel clearly has been preparing
for this very a long time.
Speaker 8 (10:00):
So going to go on for a while.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yeah, I want to talk a little bit about your experience.
You served during twenty twenty one to twenty twenty three.
You were Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for the Middle East.
It's the Pentagon's top civilian official with responsibility for that region.
Did you ever think when you were in that position
that in our lifetimes we'd see a conflict such as
(10:25):
this between the US and Israel. I mean, excuse me,
between Israel and Iran.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
No, Frankly, there's a lot that we've seen since October
seventh that I would not put on my bingo card.
Speaker 8 (10:35):
We generally had views about.
Speaker 7 (10:38):
Iran's support for terrorist proxies Hesbalala and Lebanon, Hamas and Gaza,
the militias in Iraq and Syria, Iran's client state Syria,
but charl asad, all of that is basically collapsed at
this point.
Speaker 8 (10:54):
So I would not have predicted any of that.
Speaker 7 (10:56):
The idea that we'd have Israel striking inside Iran twice
last year, a multilateral air defense coalition standing up to
defeat Iran's attack last year, none of that are scenarios
that we actively planned for when I was in the Pentagon.
Speaker 8 (11:12):
And so now fast.
Speaker 7 (11:13):
Forward to today, we have, you know, in a situation
where the past five presidential administrations, both Republican and Democratic,
have looked at and contemplated military action against Iran and
its nuclear program and have decided to pursue diplomacy and
negotiations instead. And every president says the military option is
(11:33):
on the table, and we have never seen a US
president decide to execute that military option, and yet today
we have Israel doing it.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Israel certainly has the capabilities to defend itself against these strikes,
as we've seen play out over the last few hours.
But I'm curious if you think the threat to Israel
right now is existential.
Speaker 7 (11:56):
I do not think it is existential yet, but it's serious.
So Israel has since October seventh been under threats from
multiple threat from multiple fronts, and they all relate back
to Iran. And what we're seeing, even in the less
than twenty four hours since Israel initiated it strikes inside
Iran is waves of ballistic missile strikes after that drone
(12:17):
strike that was defeated earlier this morning.
Speaker 8 (12:19):
So I believe as we speak, the third wave of
Iranian ballistic missiles as targeting Israel.
Speaker 7 (12:25):
And we know that there are some injuries, and we
know that some of those ballistic missiles have actually impacted
in downtown Tel Aviv. And so part of the question
right now is how long can Israel effectively defend itself
by itself. We have US military air defense on the
ground in Israel, and we know that there are ballistic
missile defense capable Navy destroyers on their way to the
(12:49):
Eastern Mediterranean to support the active defense of Israel. So we,
I think, can reasonably assume that if this goes on
for a really long time, Israel would be under strained
to defend itself by itself. And the big question is
what the Trump administration is going to do to put
skin in the game.
Speaker 5 (13:05):
What do you think it's going to do?
Speaker 6 (13:08):
Well.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
We've seen indications that the Trump administration has already authorized
certain kinds of military support, whether it's deconflicting airspace, whether
it's working alongside the Jordanian Air Force and the Israeli
Air Force this morning to defeat those one hundred attacked
rones that are on launched from Iran.
Speaker 8 (13:28):
And again, we do.
Speaker 7 (13:29):
Haves military on the ground in Israel actively participating in
air defense. And now we're putting more US posture, more
military capabilities on the ground in the Middle East. So
that's a serious signal of commitment from the Trump administration.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Commitment is one thing, but an all out conflict between
the US and Iran is a different thing. Do you
see the possibility of that escalating there? Given the support
that the US has committed, we are on the.
Speaker 8 (14:00):
Knife's edge of escalation.
Speaker 7 (14:02):
So right now we are seeing Israel execute a very precise,
very deliberate, very well planned operation.
Speaker 8 (14:10):
The reports of collateral.
Speaker 7 (14:12):
Damage are very minimal at this point, and right now
there have been no Israeli deaths, but it looks like
the Iranians have targeted civilian centers in Israel, and whether
or not Israel feels compelled to expand its target set,
how Iran responds to that. There's no question that this
could escalate. And of course there are tens of thousands
(14:32):
of US forces across the Middle East, five big air bases,
a ton of energy infrastructure across the Middle East, and
the Iranians might decide to target that as well.
Speaker 5 (14:42):
Dana, None of this happens in a vacuum.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
And I just think about the last couple of years,
right Hamas on Israel, Israel on Palestine, and then there
were other outbreaks, if you will, and I'm just trying
to understand this. On top of it, We've had Oman's
government come out saying Israel's actions were reckless and would
(15:06):
undermine regional security. Other Arab states echoed those comments, including
Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, and Qatar. I think
about the United States just in the Middle East region,
and it seemed like everything was let's.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
Make deals and let's forge forward.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Help me understand kind of where we are in the
Middle East and who is I really want to understand
who's aligning with whom and what the implications of that are,
and then later on China Russia. Like I keep going
back to kind of how we started at two pm
Wall Street time, help me understand how this is all
being carved up in terms of relationships potentially well.
Speaker 7 (15:46):
Such an important issue and such an important challenge. So
I think the theme of President Trump's visit when he
went to those three golf countries was business deals, commerce
and a future based on transit, actionalism and economic interests.
And what he's certainly heard from those Gulf countries is
this region has been at war for a very long time,
(16:08):
and it's been in a really intense period of war
since October seventh. And war is not good for business.
It's not good for our economic growth. So we want
to calm things down and focus on diplomacy. But none
of those leaders would say that Iran is not the
driver of instability in the Middle East. Iran has an illicit,
(16:28):
illegal nuclear weapons program. In fact, just on Monday this
week you had the IAEA come out and say there
is no possible civilian explanation for the nuclear steps that
Iran is taking. We have that deadline coming up at
the Security Council in New York for whether sanctions on
Iran for its nuclear steps will snap back into place.
(16:49):
And it's Iran who funded Hasbalah and armed and trained
Hisbala in Lebanon.
Speaker 8 (16:54):
Hamas and Gaza.
Speaker 7 (16:55):
Made sure that bsharl Asad in Syria could survive as
long as he did, dropping chemis weapons, barrel bombs, torturing
and starving his own people. It's Aron who is arming
and directing and funding the Huthis and Yemen and militias
in Iraq, all of whom do not have at heart
piece or regional stability as a priority for any of
(17:16):
these terrorists. Militias are proxy non state actors.
Speaker 3 (17:20):
You're going to have to come back at some point, Dana,
Thank you so much. Dana Stroul joining us.
Speaker 1 (17:26):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily Podcast. Listen live each
weekday starting at two pm Eastern on Apple Cocklay and
Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. You can also
listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.
Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
So, just so everybody knows, we've been planning to talk
about commercial real estate at exactly this moment, but this
is the news business. Things change quickly. We have with
us Jay Neveloff, partner and Chair of Real Estate US
at the law firm Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer, where he
folks is on commercial and residential projects throughout the US.
We're talking development, We're talking financing, We're talking everything. Jay
(18:07):
joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio. We
are going to talk real estate, Jay, but I kind
of want to bring everybody into our conversation that we
were having a little earlier. As you walked into the studio,
I pose the same question to you that I asked
Dana Stroll, who is Senior Fellow and Director of Research
at the Washington Institute for a Near Policy. She did
serve for several years as Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense
(18:29):
for the Middle East, which is the Pentagon's top civilian
official with responsibility for the region. I asked her if
she'd I asked you the same question that I asked her,
which was, did you ever think you'd live to see
the day where we'd see an escalation such as this
between Iran and Israel? And you said you did.
Speaker 9 (18:46):
But my response was most definitely. It was only a
matter of time before Israel had to take the offensive
and neutralize the weapons that are in Iran. This is
an ideal time to do it. President Trump has made
it clear that he's going to be supporting Israel. But
President Trump is looking for a lasting piece, and I believe,
as I believe President Trump believes that the way to
(19:06):
get to a lasting priest is to stand up to bullies,
to stand up to things that countries that aren't abiding
by nuclear proliferation treaties. And I think that's what we saw,
and I think that we're going to continue to see.
The goals got to be to have a lasting piece,
and what we've been doing appeasing hasn't worked in the past.
Hopefully this tact will be successful.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
You know, it's interesting and I think you know, you're
a business leader. I'm assumed you're very involved in your community,
and I'm just curious, you know why. You know, you've
obviously watched the situation at least, and I'm sure you
have folks that you talk back to in Israel, you know,
talk to us about you know, kind of your vantage
(19:48):
point in you know, this situation.
Speaker 9 (19:53):
I actually right before I came on, was texting with
one of my colleagues who is in Israel with a
husband for a family event. They were we were talking
about whether she's going to be able to get out
of Israel come back to the United States. And right
now the airspace is closed and they have a variety
of flights. It's difficult to live under the constant threat.
(20:14):
And I know that Israel's had tremendous defenses, They've had
success with the Iron Dome. But we've got to do
We've got to take a different tack. What we've been
doing for the past decade plus two decades hasn't worked.
They need a lasting piece and hopefully this will be
attack to get there.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
So we should note that this is all connected to
the markets in the global economy. We spent a good
portion of our program talking about what was happening with markets,
what was happening with oil. The FED is meeting next week.
If we see a spike in oil prices, we could
see the rate path for the Federal Reserve change. In
your position advising clients on real estate matters, you think
(20:57):
a lot about interest rates. How do you look at
a situation like this actually affecting your business world.
Speaker 9 (21:04):
I believe that the impact of the stock market over
the past several months that we've seen with the volatility
and yes it went down, that it came back up.
I know today the market's down by a material amount.
Those are reasons to invest in real estate. And I
think that we're seeing that we talked about, or you
mentioned a new name of our firm. We merged about
(21:26):
a week ago, so a part of a big global firm.
And what I'm seeing and that I did not expect
to say, is a tremendous interest in inbound investment in
the United States real estate. You have seen, I have seen,
and we're only in a position for the past two
or three weeks where we're meeting with other clients where
we're interacting The inquiries that I'm getting for inband investment
(21:48):
from firm clients, the bigger firm clients surprised me.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It didn't.
Speaker 9 (21:54):
It didn't surprise me. It would not have surprised me
if I thought about it, because I see that real
estate and is getting a greater allocation of investment funds
from private equity funds, from family offices. New York real estate,
Gateway City real estate is more stable than the stock market,
and that's what we're seeing.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Well, that's interesting because we've had a lot of conversations
today where folks are saying, okay, and we're asking is
the USN investible right? And we're seeing a reallocation of
assets overseas. Some are saying it's just a rebalancing after
many years of just so much money flowing into the
United States, and so it's a reallocation of you know,
kind of rebalancing of your portfolio. Do you think that's
(22:35):
the case or you are saying, oh wow, saying that
you're seeing money come in.
Speaker 9 (22:39):
I'm seeing money come in. And I actually believe, and
I say this to my clients regularly, that this is
the unique opportunity in time to invest in equity and
real estate. What you're I'm seeing that people need to transact.
People who are in deals with loans that have protured
or almost maturing, right, they need to transact. The values
are low. They need to bring in new money into
these There's a lot of money that's on the sidelines
(23:03):
waiting to go into real estate. And I'm a buyer
in this market.
Speaker 5 (23:07):
One thing I'm going to ask you, oh.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Wait, a hold on a buyer in commercial residential, but
you can't. We can't just say commercial, but commer but
class A, class B. I mean, there's so many fine.
Speaker 9 (23:17):
We could be specific through the classes, but in jet
and concept, I'm a buyer. I believe that there is
a need to do something with deals. People at private
equity funds are turned out because of COVID and everything else.
Lenders are coming back, the commercial banks are coming back
into the market. The alternative lenders have been big in
the market, and I think we're going to see a
(23:39):
shift from from people focused on debt to people focusing
on equity.
Speaker 3 (23:43):
What I want to ask you to is, in terms
of the uncertainty that we've seen in our world, uh
oh to say since almost the beginning of the year,
but certainly since President Trump took office, I am curious
that whether or not you are seeing certain in real
estate projects, commercial real estate projects.
Speaker 5 (24:03):
Not happen because of that uncertainty.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
You're saying money's coming into the United States, But I
am curious whether or not things have slowed down because
of the uncertainty.
Speaker 9 (24:11):
One of the things that's happened that you've seen a
slow down is evaluating new development deals and that's probably
a direct result of the tariffs and how the tariffs
keep changing. But it's hard for a lender, it's hard
for an investor to come up with a budget that
they can be comfortable with and projections. So I see
a number of people sitting on the sidelines on development deals,
including lenders.
Speaker 2 (24:32):
You do see that, Okay, Jay, You've spent a lot
of time working with the Trump with President Trump over
the years. Are you still in touch with him right now?
Speaker 7 (24:41):
No?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
When did to explain the relationship for people who aren't
familiar with the work that you've done for the president?
Speaker 9 (24:48):
I would say that I was his primary real estate
lawyer for a few decades.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
But when did you still work for the Trump organization?
Speaker 6 (24:57):
Now?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Work with the Trump organization now? I don't.
Speaker 9 (25:03):
I actually live next door to one of the sons
on one of the golf courses, but I was supposed
to be more involved in the businesses during the first administration,
and it just made sense for me not to speak
speak with him directly. But yes, it was a long
standing the relationship. I've worked on most of his real
(25:25):
estate deals and it was a terrific experience.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
One last question, and we've got to unfortunately get back
to certainly the day's events. But I do wonder, Jay,
in this environment, do you feel like there is you know,
on a day, we're again a twenty four hour news
cycle that just stuff just keeps coming at us, and
it's difficult for business leaders to make decisions. Do you
see that the environment is getting more certain or uncertain
in this environment?
Speaker 5 (25:48):
In terms of real estate, I think the for you guys, yeah,
but I think about in general.
Speaker 9 (25:52):
Yeah, I can do it with through my eyes. I
think interest rates have stabilized. You're able to underwrite deals
based on that. Seen and interest rates are go hand
in hand. And again I think the dynamics of deals
are they need people need to transact, and I think
the environment. We've seen real estate values hold steady during
(26:15):
uncertainty about tariffs and the stockwalker going down, and I
just believe I'm bullish on real estate.
Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's a hard asset, right and longer term to hold
up today, Yeah, yeah it is.
Speaker 5 (26:24):
Stockwalks gold is up, yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:26):
Yeah exactly, but seen as a safe haven. And so
hopefully we can have you come back at a more
calmer time. But we appreciate you kind of as we
have to kind of navigate a lot on this Friday,
Jay Naveloff. He is a partner and Chair of Real
Estate of US at the law firm Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
Joining us here in studio. Do come back.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch
us live weekday afternoons from two to five East during
Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app,
or watch us live on YouTube.
Speaker 5 (27:01):
A lot going on this week.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
We did also know that recently the US Supreme Court
revived a job bias lawsuit bought by a woman who
says she suffered so called reverse discrimination because she's straight,
in a ruling that makes it easier to bring similar
cases to trial in parts of the country now. The
justices unanimously said a federal appeals court was wrong to
require workers in majority groups, including white people, men, and heterosexuals,
(27:26):
to meet a more difficult test than others that have
historically faced discrimination. Just some of our backdrop when it
comes to the changing workplace landscape. Curious to see what
our next guest has to say about this and where
women are in all of this. Alisa Sankster is Chief
executive officer at the Forte Foundation, joining us today from
the annual Women's NBA Leadership Conference that is being held
(27:48):
in Denver, Colorado. Alisa, good to have you here with us.
Tell us about what you are hearing and what's top
of mind in terms of some of the subjects at
the conference, considering our backdrop, our macro backdrop when it
comes to women and others in today's society and workplace.
Speaker 10 (28:08):
That's great, thanks, Carol. Yeah, it's wonderful to be here
here at this NBA Women's Leadership Conference. We really are
talking a lot about advancement for women. We're talking about
the investment in that MBA. Many of the women attending
are about to embark upon that journey in a full
time MBA program, and they're excited about their potential for
business leadership and looking forward to the next two years
(28:33):
learning about that and building a network and community of
other business leaders that they can move forward with into leadership.
So it's a really great group that we've gathered.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
How's the pipeline looking right now. We spent some time
at Cisco Live twenty twenty five earlier this week, and
we spoke to Franktseutas, who handles a lot as an
executive chief, People, Policy and Purpose officer at the company
in addition to other roles too. And one question that
we asked her was just about why there aren't more
female executives right now in the C suite. I'm curious
(29:07):
your thoughts on that.
Speaker 10 (29:10):
Sure, I think there's a lot of data from the
NBA outcomes that we have here showing how women are
lagging behind you. So, as usual, we've seen some mixed results.
We know that that NBA is an investment that pays
off in terms of salary by about fifty one percent
increase for both men and women, but we also know
(29:30):
that the pay gap narrows. And I think to your question,
the things that we see in women post MBA. They
have fewer direct reports, they have a budget that is
smaller that they manage compared to their male counterparts. They're
not getting as many promotions, and they're you know, more
levels away from the CEO. And I think all of
(29:51):
those things are important for companies to track and pay
attention to. So what is it that is holding women back,
especially women nbas who are this great talent pool for
future leadership? And business and companies need to, you know,
really build systems that help to track and make sure
there is a movement towards the top for those women.
Speaker 2 (30:14):
One thing that we wanted to talk to you about
is what we've seen come from companies, at least publicly,
in the wake of the way that these DEI programs
have become essentially verbonden at these companies thanks to what
the Trump administration has said publicly about them and in
fact the way that he has tried to root out
(30:34):
DEI programs. And what we've learned from our Bloomberg News
reporting and from talking to folks is that, well, we're
not necessarily changing the way that we're We're not necessarily
changing this stuff a lot. What we're doing is we're
changing the way that we talk about it. We're making
these programs more inclusive. Maybe we're changing the names. What
are you hearing and how does that affect your world?
Speaker 10 (30:54):
Yeah, it's a great question because over the years, we
really have seen the pendulum swing from one end to
the other and everywhere in between. And we're really focused
as an organization, and I think many of the companies
we talk to focused on inclusion, opportunity, for all. We
spent yesterday talking a lot about how to make the
systems fair and how to focus more on the outcomes
(31:16):
of the work we're doing and creating these inclusive work
environments where everyone does feel represented, valued, respected, and that
that's important. And I think all companies and all employees
want a place that as diverse perspectives and backgrounds, but
they also want everyone to feel, as I said, respected
(31:37):
and valued as they work every day, and that is
for majority and minority groups.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Melyssa, is it harder? I mean, in today's environment.
Speaker 8 (31:47):
It is harder. It's not.
Speaker 10 (31:50):
It's not impossible, and it's hard because you go every
day and it feels maybe a little heavier than it
used to feel. And no one wants to go to
work feeling that kind of heaviness. But there's hope, and
there's a way forward, and there's lots of great things
that we can do, and not to dwell too much
on the past, but to look to the future and
how can we make things better, and how can we
(32:11):
make things that adhere to the rules that are being
put out there, but also that still get the good
work done.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Listen, So glad we could find some time to connect
with you on what's been a super super busy day.
Good luck with everything at the conference. Alissa Sangster. She's
chief executive officer of Forte Foundation. Joining us from Denver, Colorado.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,
and anywhere else you get your podcasts. Listen live weekday
afternoons from two to five pm Eastern on Bloomberg dot com,
the iHeartRadio app tune In, and the Bloomberg Business App.
You can also watch us live every weekday on YouTube
(32:56):
and always on the Bloomberg terminal
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Carol Massar
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