June 27, 2025 • 39 mins
Bloomberg’s Ed Ludlow discusses the prospects of Nvidia becoming the first company to reach a $4 trillion market capitalization. Plus, US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick says the US and China have reached an understanding on a trade deal. And data center builder Crusoe announces an energy partnership with Redwood Materials.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio new Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech and coming up in video within reach,
heading to be the first company to hit a four
trillion dollar value plus.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The US and China finalize.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
A trade truce which includes China's commitment to deliver rare Earth,
and Crusoe teams up with Redwood to tackle AI's biggest challenge,
power the largest deployment of reused batteries globally.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
For an AI data center.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
When we talk about technology and equity markets, there's a
story right now that everyone's focused on. Could in Vidia
be the first four trillion dollar marketcat company. We're at
three point eighty three trillion dollars right now. Actually, we
have some way to go. The stocks up like one
point three one and a half percent in the session.
It would need a gain of almost six percent to
hit that milestone this Friday.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But there's a longer term story.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Since those April lows in markets that were coming out
of that post deep seak, anxiety in video is up
more than sixty percent we've come through earnings and there's
a bullish thesis emerging that actually in Vidia has more
room to run because of the commitment of those cloud
computing companies to keep on spending and buying those in
video GPUs, Will Nvidia be the.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
First four trillion dollar company?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Let's get more. Mandy Singer Bloomberg Intelligence joins us. Now
and Mandy, why it's so crucial we have you on
the show. Is you cover the full spectrum of megacat
tech four trillion dollars for Nvidia? What would be supporting
that valuation?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, Look, every data point that you have tragged this
quarter has been supportive of estimate's going up. The leaders
un being Micron talking about, you know, how their HPM
sales continue to ramp up better and expected. And when
it comes to inferencing, clearly the trend of you know,
spending more compute at the time of query, the reasoning
(02:10):
capabilities that these models have added, especially with open aio series,
what that has done is really reinforced compute demand tied
to inferencing, and that to me is what's driving this
wave of you know, enthusiasm around and videos runway because
the two hundred billion dollar number for this year. Clearly
(02:31):
there's a line of sight even when you take out
all the China revenue, which they did, you know, with
the guide in the last quarter. And so the question
is how much will they grow next year? And right
now consensus is around two hundred and fifty billion dollars.
So with sovereigns coming into play, especially Middle East and
now Jensen being in Europe, you feel like, you know
(02:53):
they have line of sight to that revenue as well,
and that's why, you know, the multiple seems to be
expanding here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Okay, just below one hundred and fifty seven dollars per share.
I was doing the math with the team, and I
think that one hundred and sixty four dollars per share
or just below it would get us the four trillion
dollars of market cap in Video was the first chip
maker to hit a trillion dollars of market value, and
of course it's gone well beyond that. But there are headwinds,
and I think what Mandy would be helpful to the
(03:20):
audience is to explain what's the threat to INVIDEA.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Some of it is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The custom silicon that the hyperscalers are looking at, but
there are other players in the market. AMD will have
something to say about this monopoly that in Vidia currently holds.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, and that's why you know, in video, opening up
its platform the Envy Link now supporting other chips was
such a big move and coming in at a great
time because now they are saying, you can get Broadcom gear,
but we'll be able to integrate it with our Envy Link,
and that's where the opening up our ecosystem. I think
it's a very wise move, and that helps in video
(03:56):
because all the investment that companies are making in in
video stack now can support some other tips. So with
that being said, look, I mean the numbers are getting
bigger and bigger, so you kind of think, yes, in
VideA is a durable monopoly. But for how long, given
you know all the other factors that you just described.
But for right now, it feels like they clearly are
(04:19):
executing very well on that front.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Mandy's saying, who leads technology research of Bloomberg Intelligence, thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Let's get to the other top story.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
In Washington, US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik says a trade
truce between the US and China has been signed.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
So the China deal, we inked the deal. You remember,
we had a trip to Geneva and then that was
being slow played. We got back together in London and
that deal was signed and sealed two days ago.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
For the details, Bloombers Katie Lines joins us in. Kelly,
that was your conversation, your interaction, and I think that
what you were trying to get to is that there
are deals to come. So where did China sit within
what's being negotiated and what's been signed.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right ed. And we should note this
deal that was signed earlier this week that we just
learned about yesterday evening and has now been confirmed by
the Chinese side as well, is far from the kind
of comprehensive trade agreement that could take much longer to negotiate.
What it does solidify, though, is finalizing the framework that
was initially as we just heard the Secretary say, agree
to in Geneva, talked about again in London, and now
(05:25):
finally is looking toward implementation. And what that will mean
is that China will start approving once again the export
of rare earth minerals. That was a sticking point obviously
in the Commerce. Secretary says once those exports start flowing,
the US will lift its own restrictive measures on exports
on things like ethane. So it definitely is a step
forward and the relationship trading relationship between these two countries,
(05:47):
But of course it's just one step, and what is
a multifaceted approach by this administration to reapproach trade not
just with China but other trading partners as well. The
other thing the Commerce Secretary told us in our conversation
last night is that July ninth trade deadline is looming,
is that the administration is expecting about ten expecting about
ten trade deals to be announced over the course of
the next few weeks. While he didn't get specific as
(06:08):
to what countries exactly, he did echo the words we
heard from President Trump at the White House yesterday that
they're getting closer with India. He also expressed some optimism
around negotiations with the European Union, specifically suggesting those have
picked up in recent weeks, and we understand that optimism
is being expressed privately by the European Commission President Ursula
Vonderlion in recent days as well.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
There had been an idea, and it was an idea
rather than something put forward by the parties that there
could be this kind of trade off for quid pro
quo where rare eerfs might come in exchange for some
change in policy on the semiconductor side. What content of
this discussion do we know if there is anything specifically
relating to chips.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Well, when it comes to chips, that is something that
the US had suggested was going to be factored into
this conversation. What we still don't know at this time,
ed though we know deal has been signed, is actually
what the nuances of it are. We didn't even know
it had been signed until two days after the fact
when the President said it kind of slipped up in
the news conference or an event at the White House
(07:10):
yesterday and the Commerce Secretary confirmed it. But we do
know it all really does hinge on these critical minerals
actually arriving in the US, those exports actually beginning. That
is what the administration had been lobbying or levying accusations
against China, rather saying that they were slow walking it,
which is why there were some question as to whether
this accord would be able to move forward in the
first place. But China officials are telling Bloomberg today that
(07:32):
they are going to start sifting through those applications. In
that process should be underway, and that is when they
can get into more where we could see the US
actually starting to lift those restrictions. We just haven't sent
them yet, as the Commerce Secretary is effectively saying, China has.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
To move first.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Bloombos Kaye lines and I highly recommend you watch your
interview of Commerce Secretary Lutnik.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Let's get more in the broader impact of both of
those stories on the tech markets. Fionasen Coda is the
City Index Financial Markets senior analysts and trade piece is
where I want to start. We know more now than
we did yesterday about the trade relationship between the US
and China. As somebody that looks across the technology sector,
has the market factored that in.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
Yes, it does feel that there is an improved sentiment,
but it's not just on that China US deal. I
think there has just been sort of a broad improvement
in sentiment. It's been a very disruptive start to the
year overall. So the fact that it feels that things
are starting to slowly line up and fall into place.
(08:34):
For example, the improved relations between the US and China
that feels like it's starting to be priced in. Obviously,
we've had the disruptions with regards to the Middle East
and the impact that that's had on sentiment, But I
feel that we are now able to sort of swift
the shift the focus more towards typical sort of macro
and a fundamental analysism focus, which we haven't been able
(08:59):
to do for much of this year. So yes, you know,
I feel that there is optimism that is being priced in,
but I think that there potentially is more to run to.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
We're in a place right now this moment Friday, June
twenty seventh, where the SMP five hundred could close a
fresh record, largely to do a trade if you go
just on this market summary on the Bloomberg terminal. But
over the course of this week, we've talked about what
has changed since April where markets kind of had that
low and it is Micron, it is Palenteer, and now
(09:31):
in Nvidia potentially at four trillion dollars. What is the
biggest do you think driver of growth in this market
at the moment?
Speaker 9 (09:40):
Well, it's a really good question, you know.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
I think what the problem that we had was that
there was that massive shock and scare from Trump and
what the impact of those potential trade tariffs could be.
Now we didn't get that worst case scenario.
Speaker 9 (09:54):
In fact, we've been sort.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
Of pedaled backed quite a lot, and potentially now the
outlook isn't so bad.
Speaker 9 (09:59):
Although will mind more out on July the ninth.
Speaker 8 (10:03):
But as far as tech is concerned as well, I
think the environment, broadly speaking, the environment is much improving.
There is a potential of a more dubvish Federal Reserve.
You know, we had from Federal Reserve chair our own
power this week. He did seem to have a slightly
less hawkish stance, perhaps than at the end of the
FED meeting in the previous week, So I think that
(10:24):
is also helping.
Speaker 9 (10:25):
And also we've got sentiment.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
You know, investors are able to turn their focus back
to the fundamentals, back to this AI trade, which really
when we had there were so many disruptions earlier on
in the year, between you know, Trump's taris, between the
Middle East, between rating oil prices, the investors weren't able
to focus on that AI story.
Speaker 9 (10:47):
It's always been there, it's always underlying.
Speaker 8 (10:49):
But once again now those fears and worries have sort
of calmed down, attention can get back to AI, which
is going to be still a very strong story across
the second half of the year.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay, let's zero in on Nvidia. Could Nvidia be the
first four trillion dollar market cap company.
Speaker 9 (11:08):
I'm going to throw it out there and say, yes.
You know, if we talk about if we think about
what NA.
Speaker 8 (11:14):
Video and Video does, I mean, it's got this almost
monopoly play it would feel on that AI chip area.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
I mean, we obviously had that sort of at the.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Beginning of the year, we had that deep Seek unveiling
and which concerned the markets, but not really because I
mean the recovery has been very solid since then, as
you said, up sixty six percent, So I mean that
wasn't enough to really disrupt the bullish play for Nvidia.
The customer base of Nvidia is extremely important. You've got
(11:45):
you know, those big tech in there. You've got sort
of you know, Amazon Meta, there are all these Microsoft,
the big companies that are really supporting the revenue growth
here as well. So I think that almost feeds in
its into itself. Spending on A I think is only
likely to increase from here where we are right now. Obviously,
there are risks to that outlook, but I don't think
(12:08):
they're necessarily so concerning that it's a potential limit to
reaching that four trillion at level.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So at this scale, you know, at the index level,
it's not surprising that Nvidia is the biggest points contributor
across the NASDAQ one hundred s and P five hundred
Philadelphia Semiconductor Index. I'm going to do the math for
the audience. We're at one hundred and fifty seven dollars
fifty cents a share. I think we need to get
to just below one hundred and sixty four dollars a
share to hit four trillion. If that happens in this session,
(12:37):
I'd be surprised. Nonetheless, those risks that you outlined are there.
Custom Silicon at the Hyperscaler's potentially a product competition. There
are others in this space AMD. We spoke to Man
deep thing about earlier. Which of those kind of headwinds
do you think is worth paying most attention to, Fiona.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
Yeah, So, as you point out, I think the concept
of having competitors starting to close the gap with Nvidia
is something that is a potential limit to the upside.
But then saying that you know, this is still a
huge a huge market, so there is potential to.
Speaker 9 (13:17):
Have you know, more than one top dog here.
Speaker 8 (13:20):
We don't know that yet because this is still very
much discovery phase. It does feel but you know, given
the potential huge uses for AI that could be the case.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Fionas and coder a city index financial market. It's great
to have you back on betech. Thank you so much.
I want to take a quick look story out of
China shares of Gaomie. These are the Hong Kong listed shares.
They close up three point six percent overnight but at
one point up eight percent, two hundred and eighty nine
thousand pre orders for their brand new suv in just
one single hour. There have been several million people on
(13:52):
the webcast on x when they were presenting this new suv.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Will continue to.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Track that story coming out. We have a lot more
to come. This is Bloomberg Tech. A German privacy regulator
has warned Apple and Google that deep Seek, available on
their app stores, constitutes illegal content because it exposes users
(14:19):
data to Chinese authorities. The formal notification comes after deep
seek ignored and may request to either pull its out
from app stores in Germany or put in place safeguards
when collecting local users data and then transmitting it to
China elsewhere. Meta is in talks to acquire Playai, a
startup that uses AI to replicate voices. That's according to sources,
(14:41):
the deal will give Meta access to play aised tech
and some of its employees, a move that caboost Meta's
own AI assistant features.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
For more Bloombus kirk Wagner joins us.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
With the story that the Meta playbook is kind of
emerging here in the Aquahier context. What does Playai do
for Meta's own efforts.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
A specializes in voice assistance, and so if you think
about what Meta is trying to accomplish with its Meta
AI chatbot and the hands free devices we've talked about before,
ed right, the ray Ban glasses, the oriyan Ar glasses
that they're building, the whole notion is that you are
going to need to control those devices with some type
of voice assistant, right, And so I think this is
(15:23):
the type of deal that could help sort of push
that technology in that progress forward a little bit. It's
also something where they could put some of this technology
into their large language model, the LAMA model, that's open source, right,
and then everybody who uses Lama might have more AI
capabilities voice AI capabilities as part of that. So I
think it fits into a bunch of different things that
they're working on right now.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
So at Quahai we had scare lai.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Is are we reporting that the structure of this would
be similar to that?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So this is slightly different.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
I'm told that this is going to include the technology
that play ai is building, so it is both talent
and technology in this deal. Again, it's not closed as
of you know, yesterday when we reported this news, but
it is certainly expected to happen, and so you know
how much of the technology is ultimately going to be
parted over used. I don't know for sure, but I
(16:14):
think it's maybe slightly different than the scale AI thing
because it does feel like they're bringing at least some
of the technology in with them.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Meta is spending a bit of money.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I feel like, I don't know, it's like, let's throw
money to get in this AI thing that innovating internally.
I see reports about Boz kind of rallying the troops
on what Meta is or isn't going to do compared
to others just make sense of the strategy big picture
for us.
Speaker 10 (16:38):
Well, you may remember that Mark Zuckerberg last summer spoke
with our own Emily Chang, and he basically said that
this is the kind of technology AI and the race
for AI is the kind of technology that companies are
going to overspend on. They are going to spend, you know,
hundreds of billions of dollars to try and develop this
stuff and be a leader in this stuff, not only
because it then recruits other people, but because consumers are
(17:00):
presumably going to go to whichever products are the highest
quality and the most like interacting with another human being.
And so you know, would you look at this through
that lens, like, here's a company and a CEO dead
set on getting AI. Right, they have this basically money
printing machine in their advertising business with Facebook and Instagram,
(17:20):
and they're choosing right now to push those profits, those
proceeds into the AI race. And so I do think
there's a realistic chance that Meta is over overspending here.
Speaker 11 (17:31):
Right.
Speaker 10 (17:31):
We'll look back in a few years and say, wow,
they maybe they open the checkbook too much. But Mark
Zuckerberg has acknowledged that might be what it takes in
order to win this race, and so clearly that's something
he's willing to do right now.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Bloomers Kurt Wagner with all the meta reporting, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Crusoe and red with Materials.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Are tackling AI's biggest challenge power. The two companies have
teamed up to create North America's largest micro grid, powered
by large scale solar and cycled batteries, the goal delivering
rapidly deployable, mobile and scalable AI data centers that operate
efficiently off grid. Cruso CEO Chase lock Miller joins US
(18:10):
now along with Redwood CEO JB.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Strawbel.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
You're both in the field and on the ground. Thank
you so much for your time. Chase, I'll start with you.
Is a means to provide power to scale data center.
This is a really significant step.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Absolutely thanks for hosting us ED.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
You know, thrilled to be joining you here from from
from the field where Redwood and Cruso have partnered on
building this very cool off grid AI data center that's
powered by on site solar and end of life EV batteries.
And you can see the array of batteries behind me.
You can see this mobile and modular AI data center
(18:51):
that we've dubbed Cruso Spark.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Each of these.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Data centers houses about five hundred GPUs and there's going
to be four of them here, all powered with this grid,
right micro grid and and batteries.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
JB.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
It's good to have you back on Bloomberg Tech. It's
been a while, you know, we've we've we've been tracking
the progress of Redwood, but I think there'll be a
lot of value in you explaining the opportunity for you
here in providing this technology platform to power AI data
centers specifically.
Speaker 12 (19:23):
Well, it's great to be back, and yeah, thanks for
the opportunity. This We've been growing steadily for quite a
few years, and you know, today find ourselves in a
position where there are a huge amount of transportation battery
packs coming back from the field. We're in pole position
to make best use of a lot of those assets,
and we've i think, really invented a platform that you
(19:44):
see behind us here that can deploy those cost efficiently
to provide grid energy storage. And I think one of
the best in highest value applications of that is to
do things like what we're seeing here to provide very
fast and reliable energy for AI expansion, JB.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Could you just give us a sense of any capacity
constraint that you have, you know, where you're sending your
batteries to and how you're going to prioritize them as
you go through the recycle or reuse process.
Speaker 12 (20:17):
Yeah, so we aim to reuse and repurpose every battery
that we possibly can, anything that has remaining life. You know,
we already have gigawatt hours of batteries in the pipeline
to do that. This project alone is already the largest
microgrid in North America and also the world's largest deployment
of second life reused batteries. But we're already aiming at
(20:38):
projects that are twenty two one hundred times larger than this,
So there's a lot to come in the growth in
the pipeline.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Chase.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
You and I very recently discussed, and indeed we had
Drew Baglino on the show right from heron the need
to modernize energy infrastructure in the context of the data
center build out. Are you able to kind of quantify
or give our audience a sense of the challenge of
how much a bottleneck the energy component is when you're
building out these data centers around this country.
Speaker 7 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 13 (21:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (21:12):
You know, one of the major aspects to the bottleneck
for energy really is the speed. You know, people are
applying for grid inter connections and they're finding themselves in
multi year you know, five ten year.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Cues to basically get that load approval. What we've done
here is rapidly deployed these.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Modular and mobile data centers alongside this solar and battery installment,
and this all came together in about four months, so
we were able to rapidly sort of manufacture in the
Cruso factories these modular data centers and deploy this large
array of batteries of partnership with with Redwood to effectively
(21:53):
drive power to AI infrastructure on a really fast basis.
You know, from our perspective, our philosophy is that the
future of AI is going to be abundant and it's
going to be ubiquitous, which means that we're going to
need very large scale AI data centers like what we're
building an Applie Texus. They're gonna gig a lot scale,
five gig, WoT scale, ten gig a loot scale, massive
(22:14):
facilities to train the next frontier models, and then you're
going to have lots of smaller modular inference data centers
that are deploying and serving customers rearb edge like what
we built here or in Sparks with Cruso Spark unit.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And for so many technology companies on prem is so
back chase. How much of a premium is there on
the cost of JB's technology versus other sources of energy
and other storage options.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
Yeah, that's actually one of the magical things about this
is it has something that I call the negative green premium.
We are powering this site entirely with solar and batteries,
so we're getting ground the clock twenty four to seven
power all from the sun, and it's cheaper than our
overall cost of power in a market like Northern Virginia,
so it's faster, cheaper, and it can be rapidly deployed
(23:07):
almost anywhere. So something we're really proud of.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I'm really excited about JB.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This is obviously a big, a big deal on a
big milestone for Redwood. But again, it's been sometimes since
you've been on the show. Update us on your progress
to date and the next steps is you scale this process.
We just have one minute.
Speaker 12 (23:25):
Well at Redwood today, we're by far the largest battery
recycler in North America. You know, we have hundreds of
millions in revenue from the recycling operations, and this new
energy business that we're launching is our next chapter of growth.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All right, CRUSO CEO Chase lock Miller alongside Redwood Material
CEO JB. Strawbell live from the ground. Great to have
you both back on Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.
In equity markets, it is the tech sector that's kind
(24:01):
of leading the way over the course of this week,
major indicason. Then now's that one hundreds where I focus
right because of that high concentration of tech on track
to close a fresh record highs. The narrative is really
progress in trade talks.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Principally between the US and China.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
But then there are those single names, and Nvidia is
our main focus right now. In Vidia once again the
world's most valuable company, pushing to fresh record highs. But
now at three point eight five trillion dollars in market cap,
could this be the first four trillion dollar market cap company?
That's what we're looking for. We're up about one and
a half percent in the session. We need a gain
of almost six percent to get there. Maybe not today,
(24:37):
maybe in the coming weeks, but that would be the milestone,
the first four trillion dollar market cap company. There are
some other stories out there that we're paying attention to
that link AI and energy. One of them Palented it
wants to power up nuclear in America and it's teeming
up with the nuclear company to co develop and deploy
the first AI driven real time software system built exclusively
(25:00):
nuclear construction. I caught up with Palanties head of Defense
Mike Gallagher and the Uculear Company CEO Jonathan Webb to
discuss the significance of the partnership, but why NUCUIA is
a national security priority.
Speaker 14 (25:11):
I think it is how we revitalize not just a
defense industrial base, but an American industrial base.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Right, if you think about it in.
Speaker 14 (25:18):
Terms of our relative competition with our primary geo political threat, China,
we can't win merely by throwing more money and more
human beings at the problem. That's sort of a losing that.
We have to leverage our asymmetric advantage, which is innovation
and AI enabled software innovation. So applying that to the
entire American industrial base, I think is how we begin
to build things faster, more quickly. As Jonathan mentioned, it
(25:39):
shouldn't take over a decade to build a reactor in
this country. That's not just a consequence of over regulation,
though that is a key variable. It's about liberating the
human beings who are involved in producing these things day
to day to focus on their most important task rather
than trying to find a piece of paper somewhere or
(25:59):
an Excel spreadsheet. It's about allowing them to focus and
maximizing their productivity. That's what we're seeing with our deployment
of war speed in other spaces. That's what makes me
so bullish about this partnership. And that's ultimately again, how
we keep this country strong, secure and ahead of all
of our geopolitical rivals.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, indeed, think you please jump in please, Well.
Speaker 15 (26:19):
What I would say is that this is this is
absolutely a national security concern and we should all be
deeply concerned that China in the next few years is
going to become the largest nuclear power producer on planet Earth.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
They will pass the US for the.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
First time since the history of nuclear power was invented.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
This is unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
That was Palanted's head of Defense, Mike Gallagher, and the
Nuclear company CEO Jonathan Webb, an Israel based robotics startup
aiming to improve and expand access to crucial eye surgery,
has recently closed a one hundred and twenty five million
dollars Series B funding round. The company, for Sights Robotics,
says it's from us is AI based algorithms, advanced computer vision,
(27:03):
and micro mechanics to access any point within the human eye.
For PSITE, co founder, president and chief medical officer, doctor
Joseph Nathan joins us LIVE, I think up right in
saying that in the context of robotics history, this was
one of the top series bes of all time. It's
a significant sum of money. Let's start with what you're
(27:23):
going to do with that funding and what you need
to do to make progress right.
Speaker 13 (27:28):
First of all, thank you for having me. It's fair
to be here.
Speaker 16 (27:32):
What we're developing it forced that is you said, it's
a robotic platform to tackle one of the biggest needs
in medicine, which is the vision crisis. So currently today
we have over two billion people who are vision impaired
and that creates a yearly three trillion dollar economic burden.
And this crisis is mostly due to the lack of
(27:53):
surgeons to cater to this massive amount of patience and
the lack of quality of standard in I care. So
what we're doing at foresight, as you mentioned, we're taking
AI in our technologies to augment surgeons capabilities and have
them doing many more procedures in a very precise and
(28:17):
act right way. And we're starting with care ACT, which
is our first indication.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Does and Anathan, how big is the addressable market here?
Speaker 16 (28:27):
So this is one of the biggest markets in medicine.
This is the most common precision of medicine. Care acts
is not. The disease is a widespread condition that happens
during age, so it will happen to everybody eventually, and
we just we don't keep up with the amount of
surgeries that needs to be done. So today, for example,
(28:50):
we can do globally thirty million procedures a year, but
there's over six hundred million patients needed. So there's really
no human way to this gap. And as you mentioned,
this is the largest, the second largest be round in
surgical robotics history, and this round is going to take
us from where we are today. So we did thirty
(29:16):
three hundred procedure and animal models and we're going to
do our first in human trials later this year, and
it's going to take us through regulatory approvals and early commercialization.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Doctor Nathan, you join us from Israel and we have
to address the events of the last few weeks. Would
you just reflect on what it's been like closing this
round but also just trying to build out the technology
in an environment where Israel is at war with Iran.
Speaker 13 (29:49):
Yeah, you're definitely right.
Speaker 16 (29:51):
There were usually, you know, there's volatility in the Middle East,
but this was different. We had ballistic missiles dropping from
the sky. We had, you know, to run with our
kids through the shelters. But there's in our spirit and
the Israeli spirit is that Israeli tech delivers no matter what,
(30:12):
and during missiles coming from the sky. We closed this
Bee round and you know, this company was started five
years ago during COVID, we went through a very big
economic recession, the war in Gaza, and now I ran.
So this vote of confidence by investors and also a
strategic partner that we joined to this round, it's truly
(30:34):
amazing and I think it's a testament to Israeli resilient
and our ability to get through hurdles. If it's you know,
uncertainty in the Middle East, it could be uncertainty during development.
We're developing a disruptive solution that's very hard to do.
So I'm very very proud of the team for you know.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And during this I ask you about the operational experience
ends of recent weeks because we also talked about the
addressable market. And it's likely right that that addressable market
is outside of Israel.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
So is it the future of.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
This company that you maintain your talent, pull your operations
in that country or you need to look at expanding
globally to capture that market.
Speaker 16 (31:20):
Right, we are a global company. Our first target market
is the US. We're going to transition our operation to
the US. We are very privileged, as you said, to
be doing good and our addressable market, you know, people
have cataut regardless of their ethnicity to graph et cetera.
(31:41):
So our first target market is the US. We're going
to transition our operation there, but also to other places.
So you're definitely right, it's outside of the realms of Israel.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
What I find so interesting about the technology is it
blends robotics hardware with software. What would you say is
your core company tens.
Speaker 13 (32:01):
Well it's faced.
Speaker 16 (32:03):
So you start with a lot of you know, building
very small mechanics and then you know, software is like
the brain takes over. So think about we're doing like,
you know, superhuman extension of you know, the surgeon hands
and arms coupled with best in class visualization and the
software brain that operates everything and gives the surgeons the
(32:26):
ability to be more precise and accurate in every case.
And what I when I try to explain what we're doing,
what we want to achieve. We want to transition to
transform the average surgeon to the Michael Jordan of surgeons.
But in every procedure, you know, regardless if it's the
first procedure of the day or the last procedure of
(32:47):
the day.
Speaker 13 (32:47):
And that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I lost you again, what you plan to do with
the funding. There's a real premium on software talent in
particular right now, but across robotics.
Speaker 16 (32:59):
Right so yeah, you know, we we were fortunate enough
to get and we have Nvidia is you know, our
neighbors and Facebook and Apple, so we're competing with the
you know, those companies on the best talent. What we
have is you know, the ability to give our team
(33:20):
member join a journey to transform the atomic market. So
currently there's you know, no robotics on the thomic market,
while other specialties have gained robotics for ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 13 (33:36):
And this is because you know, we didn't.
Speaker 16 (33:38):
Have the miniaturization, the surgy, the technological advancement that happened
over the last you know, maybe five years in order
to get a robotic platform doing such a precise micro
level movements. And when you're talking about computing power or software,
you know, the Nvidia of the world gave us the
(34:03):
ability to have this computer paper to control this micro
level precision.
Speaker 13 (34:08):
So it's you know, interconnected here.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Doctor Joseph Nathan, co founder, president and chief medical officer
for ForSight Robotics, thank you, Okay. Coming up, former CFTC
Commissioner and newly appointed CEO of the Blockchain Association, Some
Mersinger joins us to talk about the push for crypto legislation.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
As next this is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
The House is expected to combine two crypto bills, the
Genius and Clarity Acts, as it aims to finalize regulation
the digital currencies in the US. For more, I want
to bring in summer Mersinger. She's a former commissioner at
the Commodity Futures Training Commission CFTC and the new CEO
of the Blockchain Association. Let's star with this latest news, right,
(35:01):
This is what Bloomberg put out last night yesterday evening
out of DC that the idea is to advance two
separate measures in a single procedural vote.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
We actually had David Sacks the cryptos.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Are on the show a couple of weeks ago, where
we put this idea to him. What do you make
of that structure and the impact that it might have.
Speaker 11 (35:21):
Yeah, it's important that they're able to bring the two
bills to the floor but also have them separate so
that the Genius Act can move on its own and
be signed into a law. I think the House is
very committed to having both stable coin legislation and market
structure legislation done before the August recess. This allows them
to do that while also preeing up Genius to move
(35:43):
to a Drugly to the President.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
How consequential is the movement of these two pieces of
legislation combined as one. In sort of the history of
how crypto and the crypto industry and the underlying technology
has built up in this country and around the world.
Speaker 11 (36:02):
Frankly, yeah, this is a pivotal moment, and I think
it's pretty historic where we are. We have two very
important pieces of legislation moving through Congress at the same
time that will have enormous impact on how this technology
and the businesses that have layered on it, how they
are regulated. It's rare that Congress has two pieces of
(36:27):
legislation in the same industry moving at the same time.
So I think that is historic in and of itself.
But given how far the industry has come, just you know,
a few years ago, they were facing enforcement, lack of clarity,
almost a hostile regulatory environment. And now we have a
(36:47):
crypto administration of pro crypto Congress, and we're going to
see major legislation put into place that will provide a
framework for this industry.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You say, a hostile regulatory environment.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Does the content of these two bills provide the sort
of safeguards and ethical safety net that many in the
industry and Democrats also were calling for in the writing
of it.
Speaker 11 (37:13):
It does, and it provides a framework for the industry
to abide by regulations. I think, you know, previously they
were trying to be regulated. They wanted to be regulated.
They were trying to walk in the door of the
regulators to say what can we do to follow rules,
and they were being met with enforcement cases. Now they're
going to have a framework they can follow so they
(37:35):
can come under the regulatory sphere. That's both very helpful
for the industry because that provides a certainty they need
to continue to be the innovators that they are, but
it also gives a lot of safeguards to those who
want to be in this market, to retail participants of
those who are buying and selling crypto. Those safeguards are
missing right now, and this framework will provide safeguards.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Some of what the industry keeps telling me, what your
association members keep telling me, is this is about dollarization.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Do you share that thesis?
Speaker 13 (38:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (38:07):
For stable coins, for sure, it's very important that we
have the stable coin legislation. There's a lot of, you know,
national security interest in having stable coin regime here in
the United States, making sure the US dollar is the
backing for stable coins, and to continue to have the
(38:28):
US be the kind of the first place where stable
coin issuers want to go and want to use the
US dollar as their currency backing for those coins.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I think what many of our audience might appreciate, Like
many people, they don't know what a stable coin is,
what its function is, how the utility of it to
everyday financial procedures. Do you have an explanation of that
for the layperson that's watching right now.
Speaker 11 (38:56):
Yeah, it's another way to move funds electronically. And you know,
I think for a lot of people in their mind
right now, when you move funds electronically, it takes time.
Speaker 9 (39:05):
It's not immediate
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio new Bloomberg Tech is alive
from coast to coast with Caroline Hide in New York
and Eva Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
This is Bloomberg Tech and coming up in video within reach,
heading to be the first company to hit a four
trillion dollar value plus.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
The US and China finalize.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
A trade truce which includes China's commitment to deliver rare Earth,
and Crusoe teams up with Redwood to tackle AI's biggest challenge,
power the largest deployment of reused batteries globally.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
For an AI data center.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
When we talk about technology and equity markets, there's a
story right now that everyone's focused on. Could in Vidia
be the first four trillion dollar marketcat company. We're at
three point eighty three trillion dollars right now. Actually, we
have some way to go. The stocks up like one
point three one and a half percent in the session.
It would need a gain of almost six percent to
hit that milestone this Friday.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
But there's a longer term story.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Since those April lows in markets that were coming out
of that post deep seak, anxiety in video is up
more than sixty percent we've come through earnings and there's
a bullish thesis emerging that actually in Vidia has more
room to run because of the commitment of those cloud
computing companies to keep on spending and buying those in
video GPUs, Will Nvidia be the.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
First four trillion dollar company?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Let's get more. Mandy Singer Bloomberg Intelligence joins us. Now
and Mandy, why it's so crucial we have you on
the show. Is you cover the full spectrum of megacat
tech four trillion dollars for Nvidia? What would be supporting
that valuation?
Speaker 4 (01:45):
Yeah, Look, every data point that you have tragged this
quarter has been supportive of estimate's going up. The leaders
un being Micron talking about, you know, how their HPM
sales continue to ramp up better and expected. And when
it comes to inferencing, clearly the trend of you know,
spending more compute at the time of query, the reasoning
(02:10):
capabilities that these models have added, especially with open aio series,
what that has done is really reinforced compute demand tied
to inferencing, and that to me is what's driving this
wave of you know, enthusiasm around and videos runway because
the two hundred billion dollar number for this year. Clearly
(02:31):
there's a line of sight even when you take out
all the China revenue, which they did, you know, with
the guide in the last quarter. And so the question
is how much will they grow next year? And right
now consensus is around two hundred and fifty billion dollars.
So with sovereigns coming into play, especially Middle East and
now Jensen being in Europe, you feel like, you know
(02:53):
they have line of sight to that revenue as well,
and that's why, you know, the multiple seems to be
expanding here.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Okay, just below one hundred and fifty seven dollars per share.
I was doing the math with the team, and I
think that one hundred and sixty four dollars per share
or just below it would get us the four trillion
dollars of market cap in Video was the first chip
maker to hit a trillion dollars of market value, and
of course it's gone well beyond that. But there are headwinds,
and I think what Mandy would be helpful to the
(03:20):
audience is to explain what's the threat to INVIDEA.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Some of it is.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
The custom silicon that the hyperscalers are looking at, but
there are other players in the market. AMD will have
something to say about this monopoly that in Vidia currently holds.
Speaker 4 (03:34):
Yeah, and that's why you know, in video, opening up
its platform the Envy Link now supporting other chips was
such a big move and coming in at a great
time because now they are saying, you can get Broadcom gear,
but we'll be able to integrate it with our Envy Link,
and that's where the opening up our ecosystem. I think
it's a very wise move, and that helps in video
(03:56):
because all the investment that companies are making in in
video stack now can support some other tips. So with
that being said, look, I mean the numbers are getting
bigger and bigger, so you kind of think, yes, in
VideA is a durable monopoly. But for how long, given
you know all the other factors that you just described.
But for right now, it feels like they clearly are
(04:19):
executing very well on that front.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Mandy's saying, who leads technology research of Bloomberg Intelligence, thank
you so much.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
Let's get to the other top story.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
In Washington, US Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnik says a trade
truce between the US and China has been signed.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
So the China deal, we inked the deal. You remember,
we had a trip to Geneva and then that was
being slow played. We got back together in London and
that deal was signed and sealed two days ago.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
For the details, Bloombers Katie Lines joins us in. Kelly,
that was your conversation, your interaction, and I think that
what you were trying to get to is that there
are deals to come. So where did China sit within
what's being negotiated and what's been signed.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Yeah, that's exactly right ed. And we should note this
deal that was signed earlier this week that we just
learned about yesterday evening and has now been confirmed by
the Chinese side as well, is far from the kind
of comprehensive trade agreement that could take much longer to negotiate.
What it does solidify, though, is finalizing the framework that
was initially as we just heard the Secretary say, agree
to in Geneva, talked about again in London, and now
(05:25):
finally is looking toward implementation. And what that will mean
is that China will start approving once again the export
of rare earth minerals. That was a sticking point obviously
in the Commerce. Secretary says once those exports start flowing,
the US will lift its own restrictive measures on exports
on things like ethane. So it definitely is a step
forward and the relationship trading relationship between these two countries,
(05:47):
But of course it's just one step, and what is
a multifaceted approach by this administration to reapproach trade not
just with China but other trading partners as well. The
other thing the Commerce Secretary told us in our conversation
last night is that July ninth trade deadline is looming,
is that the administration is expecting about ten expecting about
ten trade deals to be announced over the course of
the next few weeks. While he didn't get specific as
(06:08):
to what countries exactly, he did echo the words we
heard from President Trump at the White House yesterday that
they're getting closer with India. He also expressed some optimism
around negotiations with the European Union, specifically suggesting those have
picked up in recent weeks, and we understand that optimism
is being expressed privately by the European Commission President Ursula
Vonderlion in recent days as well.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
There had been an idea, and it was an idea
rather than something put forward by the parties that there
could be this kind of trade off for quid pro
quo where rare eerfs might come in exchange for some
change in policy on the semiconductor side. What content of
this discussion do we know if there is anything specifically
relating to chips.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Well, when it comes to chips, that is something that
the US had suggested was going to be factored into
this conversation. What we still don't know at this time,
ed though we know deal has been signed, is actually
what the nuances of it are. We didn't even know
it had been signed until two days after the fact
when the President said it kind of slipped up in
the news conference or an event at the White House
(07:10):
yesterday and the Commerce Secretary confirmed it. But we do
know it all really does hinge on these critical minerals
actually arriving in the US, those exports actually beginning. That
is what the administration had been lobbying or levying accusations
against China, rather saying that they were slow walking it,
which is why there were some question as to whether
this accord would be able to move forward in the
first place. But China officials are telling Bloomberg today that
(07:32):
they are going to start sifting through those applications. In
that process should be underway, and that is when they
can get into more where we could see the US
actually starting to lift those restrictions. We just haven't sent
them yet, as the Commerce Secretary is effectively saying, China has.
Speaker 7 (07:45):
To move first.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
Bloombos Kaye lines and I highly recommend you watch your
interview of Commerce Secretary Lutnik.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Let's get more in the broader impact of both of
those stories on the tech markets. Fionasen Coda is the
City Index Financial Markets senior analysts and trade piece is
where I want to start. We know more now than
we did yesterday about the trade relationship between the US
and China. As somebody that looks across the technology sector,
has the market factored that in.
Speaker 8 (08:14):
Yes, it does feel that there is an improved sentiment,
but it's not just on that China US deal. I
think there has just been sort of a broad improvement
in sentiment. It's been a very disruptive start to the
year overall. So the fact that it feels that things
are starting to slowly line up and fall into place.
(08:34):
For example, the improved relations between the US and China
that feels like it's starting to be priced in. Obviously,
we've had the disruptions with regards to the Middle East
and the impact that that's had on sentiment, But I
feel that we are now able to sort of swift
the shift the focus more towards typical sort of macro
and a fundamental analysism focus, which we haven't been able
(08:59):
to do for much of this year. So yes, you know,
I feel that there is optimism that is being priced in,
but I think that there potentially is more to run to.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
We're in a place right now this moment Friday, June
twenty seventh, where the SMP five hundred could close a
fresh record, largely to do a trade if you go
just on this market summary on the Bloomberg terminal. But
over the course of this week, we've talked about what
has changed since April where markets kind of had that
low and it is Micron, it is Palenteer, and now
(09:31):
in Nvidia potentially at four trillion dollars. What is the
biggest do you think driver of growth in this market
at the moment?
Speaker 9 (09:40):
Well, it's a really good question, you know.
Speaker 8 (09:41):
I think what the problem that we had was that
there was that massive shock and scare from Trump and
what the impact of those potential trade tariffs could be.
Now we didn't get that worst case scenario.
Speaker 9 (09:54):
In fact, we've been sort.
Speaker 8 (09:55):
Of pedaled backed quite a lot, and potentially now the
outlook isn't so bad.
Speaker 9 (09:59):
Although will mind more out on July the ninth.
Speaker 8 (10:03):
But as far as tech is concerned as well, I
think the environment, broadly speaking, the environment is much improving.
There is a potential of a more dubvish Federal Reserve.
You know, we had from Federal Reserve chair our own
power this week. He did seem to have a slightly
less hawkish stance, perhaps than at the end of the
FED meeting in the previous week, So I think that
(10:24):
is also helping.
Speaker 9 (10:25):
And also we've got sentiment.
Speaker 8 (10:27):
You know, investors are able to turn their focus back
to the fundamentals, back to this AI trade, which really
when we had there were so many disruptions earlier on
in the year, between you know, Trump's taris, between the
Middle East, between rating oil prices, the investors weren't able
to focus on that AI story.
Speaker 9 (10:47):
It's always been there, it's always underlying.
Speaker 8 (10:49):
But once again now those fears and worries have sort
of calmed down, attention can get back to AI, which
is going to be still a very strong story across
the second half of the year.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Okay, let's zero in on Nvidia. Could Nvidia be the
first four trillion dollar market cap company.
Speaker 9 (11:08):
I'm going to throw it out there and say, yes.
You know, if we talk about if we think about
what NA.
Speaker 8 (11:14):
Video and Video does, I mean, it's got this almost
monopoly play it would feel on that AI chip area.
Speaker 9 (11:21):
I mean, we obviously had that sort of at the.
Speaker 8 (11:24):
Beginning of the year, we had that deep Seek unveiling
and which concerned the markets, but not really because I
mean the recovery has been very solid since then, as
you said, up sixty six percent, So I mean that
wasn't enough to really disrupt the bullish play for Nvidia.
The customer base of Nvidia is extremely important. You've got
(11:45):
you know, those big tech in there. You've got sort
of you know, Amazon Meta, there are all these Microsoft,
the big companies that are really supporting the revenue growth
here as well. So I think that almost feeds in
its into itself. Spending on A I think is only
likely to increase from here where we are right now. Obviously,
there are risks to that outlook, but I don't think
(12:08):
they're necessarily so concerning that it's a potential limit to
reaching that four trillion at level.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
So at this scale, you know, at the index level,
it's not surprising that Nvidia is the biggest points contributor
across the NASDAQ one hundred s and P five hundred
Philadelphia Semiconductor Index. I'm going to do the math for
the audience. We're at one hundred and fifty seven dollars
fifty cents a share. I think we need to get
to just below one hundred and sixty four dollars a
share to hit four trillion. If that happens in this session,
(12:37):
I'd be surprised. Nonetheless, those risks that you outlined are there.
Custom Silicon at the Hyperscaler's potentially a product competition. There
are others in this space AMD. We spoke to Man
deep thing about earlier. Which of those kind of headwinds
do you think is worth paying most attention to, Fiona.
Speaker 8 (12:58):
Yeah, So, as you point out, I think the concept
of having competitors starting to close the gap with Nvidia
is something that is a potential limit to the upside.
But then saying that you know, this is still a
huge a huge market, so there is potential to.
Speaker 9 (13:17):
Have you know, more than one top dog here.
Speaker 8 (13:20):
We don't know that yet because this is still very
much discovery phase. It does feel but you know, given
the potential huge uses for AI that could be the case.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Fionas and coder a city index financial market. It's great
to have you back on betech. Thank you so much.
I want to take a quick look story out of
China shares of Gaomie. These are the Hong Kong listed shares.
They close up three point six percent overnight but at
one point up eight percent, two hundred and eighty nine
thousand pre orders for their brand new suv in just
one single hour. There have been several million people on
(13:52):
the webcast on x when they were presenting this new suv.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Will continue to.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Track that story coming out. We have a lot more
to come. This is Bloomberg Tech. A German privacy regulator
has warned Apple and Google that deep Seek, available on
their app stores, constitutes illegal content because it exposes users
(14:19):
data to Chinese authorities. The formal notification comes after deep
seek ignored and may request to either pull its out
from app stores in Germany or put in place safeguards
when collecting local users data and then transmitting it to
China elsewhere. Meta is in talks to acquire Playai, a
startup that uses AI to replicate voices. That's according to sources,
(14:41):
the deal will give Meta access to play aised tech
and some of its employees, a move that caboost Meta's
own AI assistant features.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
For more Bloombus kirk Wagner joins us.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
With the story that the Meta playbook is kind of
emerging here in the Aquahier context. What does Playai do
for Meta's own efforts.
Speaker 10 (15:00):
A specializes in voice assistance, and so if you think
about what Meta is trying to accomplish with its Meta
AI chatbot and the hands free devices we've talked about before,
ed right, the ray Ban glasses, the oriyan Ar glasses
that they're building, the whole notion is that you are
going to need to control those devices with some type
of voice assistant, right, And so I think this is
(15:23):
the type of deal that could help sort of push
that technology in that progress forward a little bit. It's
also something where they could put some of this technology
into their large language model, the LAMA model, that's open source, right,
and then everybody who uses Lama might have more AI
capabilities voice AI capabilities as part of that. So I
think it fits into a bunch of different things that
they're working on right now.
Speaker 3 (15:44):
So at Quahai we had scare lai.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Is are we reporting that the structure of this would
be similar to that?
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So this is slightly different.
Speaker 10 (15:52):
I'm told that this is going to include the technology
that play ai is building, so it is both talent
and technology in this deal. Again, it's not closed as
of you know, yesterday when we reported this news, but
it is certainly expected to happen, and so you know
how much of the technology is ultimately going to be
parted over used. I don't know for sure, but I
(16:14):
think it's maybe slightly different than the scale AI thing
because it does feel like they're bringing at least some
of the technology in with them.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
Meta is spending a bit of money.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I feel like, I don't know, it's like, let's throw
money to get in this AI thing that innovating internally.
I see reports about Boz kind of rallying the troops
on what Meta is or isn't going to do compared
to others just make sense of the strategy big picture
for us.
Speaker 10 (16:38):
Well, you may remember that Mark Zuckerberg last summer spoke
with our own Emily Chang, and he basically said that
this is the kind of technology AI and the race
for AI is the kind of technology that companies are
going to overspend on. They are going to spend, you know,
hundreds of billions of dollars to try and develop this
stuff and be a leader in this stuff, not only
because it then recruits other people, but because consumers are
(17:00):
presumably going to go to whichever products are the highest
quality and the most like interacting with another human being.
And so you know, would you look at this through
that lens, like, here's a company and a CEO dead
set on getting AI. Right, they have this basically money
printing machine in their advertising business with Facebook and Instagram,
(17:20):
and they're choosing right now to push those profits, those
proceeds into the AI race. And so I do think
there's a realistic chance that Meta is over overspending here.
Speaker 11 (17:31):
Right.
Speaker 10 (17:31):
We'll look back in a few years and say, wow,
they maybe they open the checkbook too much. But Mark
Zuckerberg has acknowledged that might be what it takes in
order to win this race, and so clearly that's something
he's willing to do right now.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
Bloomers Kurt Wagner with all the meta reporting, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Crusoe and red with Materials.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Are tackling AI's biggest challenge power. The two companies have
teamed up to create North America's largest micro grid, powered
by large scale solar and cycled batteries, the goal delivering
rapidly deployable, mobile and scalable AI data centers that operate
efficiently off grid. Cruso CEO Chase lock Miller joins US
(18:10):
now along with Redwood CEO JB.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
Strawbel.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
You're both in the field and on the ground. Thank
you so much for your time. Chase, I'll start with you.
Is a means to provide power to scale data center.
This is a really significant step.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Absolutely thanks for hosting us ED.
Speaker 7 (18:28):
You know, thrilled to be joining you here from from
from the field where Redwood and Cruso have partnered on
building this very cool off grid AI data center that's
powered by on site solar and end of life EV batteries.
And you can see the array of batteries behind me.
You can see this mobile and modular AI data center
(18:51):
that we've dubbed Cruso Spark.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Each of these.
Speaker 7 (18:54):
Data centers houses about five hundred GPUs and there's going
to be four of them here, all powered with this grid,
right micro grid and and batteries.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
JB.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
It's good to have you back on Bloomberg Tech. It's
been a while, you know, we've we've we've been tracking
the progress of Redwood, but I think there'll be a
lot of value in you explaining the opportunity for you
here in providing this technology platform to power AI data
centers specifically.
Speaker 12 (19:23):
Well, it's great to be back, and yeah, thanks for
the opportunity. This We've been growing steadily for quite a
few years, and you know, today find ourselves in a
position where there are a huge amount of transportation battery
packs coming back from the field. We're in pole position
to make best use of a lot of those assets,
and we've i think, really invented a platform that you
(19:44):
see behind us here that can deploy those cost efficiently
to provide grid energy storage. And I think one of
the best in highest value applications of that is to
do things like what we're seeing here to provide very
fast and reliable energy for AI expansion, JB.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
Could you just give us a sense of any capacity
constraint that you have, you know, where you're sending your
batteries to and how you're going to prioritize them as
you go through the recycle or reuse process.
Speaker 12 (20:17):
Yeah, so we aim to reuse and repurpose every battery
that we possibly can, anything that has remaining life. You know,
we already have gigawatt hours of batteries in the pipeline
to do that. This project alone is already the largest
microgrid in North America and also the world's largest deployment
of second life reused batteries. But we're already aiming at
(20:38):
projects that are twenty two one hundred times larger than this,
So there's a lot to come in the growth in
the pipeline.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Chase.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
You and I very recently discussed, and indeed we had
Drew Baglino on the show right from heron the need
to modernize energy infrastructure in the context of the data
center build out. Are you able to kind of quantify
or give our audience a sense of the challenge of
how much a bottleneck the energy component is when you're
building out these data centers around this country.
Speaker 7 (21:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 13 (21:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 7 (21:12):
You know, one of the major aspects to the bottleneck
for energy really is the speed. You know, people are
applying for grid inter connections and they're finding themselves in
multi year you know, five ten year.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Cues to basically get that load approval. What we've done
here is rapidly deployed these.
Speaker 7 (21:32):
Modular and mobile data centers alongside this solar and battery installment,
and this all came together in about four months, so
we were able to rapidly sort of manufacture in the
Cruso factories these modular data centers and deploy this large
array of batteries of partnership with with Redwood to effectively
(21:53):
drive power to AI infrastructure on a really fast basis.
You know, from our perspective, our philosophy is that the
future of AI is going to be abundant and it's
going to be ubiquitous, which means that we're going to
need very large scale AI data centers like what we're
building an Applie Texus. They're gonna gig a lot scale,
five gig, WoT scale, ten gig a loot scale, massive
(22:14):
facilities to train the next frontier models, and then you're
going to have lots of smaller modular inference data centers
that are deploying and serving customers rearb edge like what
we built here or in Sparks with Cruso Spark unit.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And for so many technology companies on prem is so
back chase. How much of a premium is there on
the cost of JB's technology versus other sources of energy
and other storage options.
Speaker 7 (22:42):
Yeah, that's actually one of the magical things about this
is it has something that I call the negative green premium.
We are powering this site entirely with solar and batteries,
so we're getting ground the clock twenty four to seven
power all from the sun, and it's cheaper than our
overall cost of power in a market like Northern Virginia,
so it's faster, cheaper, and it can be rapidly deployed
(23:07):
almost anywhere. So something we're really proud of.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I'm really excited about JB.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
This is obviously a big, a big deal on a
big milestone for Redwood. But again, it's been sometimes since
you've been on the show. Update us on your progress
to date and the next steps is you scale this process.
We just have one minute.
Speaker 12 (23:25):
Well at Redwood today, we're by far the largest battery
recycler in North America. You know, we have hundreds of
millions in revenue from the recycling operations, and this new
energy business that we're launching is our next chapter of growth.
Speaker 2 (23:41):
All right, CRUSO CEO Chase lock Miller alongside Redwood Material
CEO JB. Strawbell live from the ground. Great to have
you both back on Bloomberg Tech. Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech.
In equity markets, it is the tech sector that's kind
(24:01):
of leading the way over the course of this week,
major indicason. Then now's that one hundreds where I focus
right because of that high concentration of tech on track
to close a fresh record highs. The narrative is really
progress in trade talks.
Speaker 3 (24:13):
Principally between the US and China.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
But then there are those single names, and Nvidia is
our main focus right now. In Vidia once again the
world's most valuable company, pushing to fresh record highs. But
now at three point eight five trillion dollars in market cap,
could this be the first four trillion dollar market cap company?
That's what we're looking for. We're up about one and
a half percent in the session. We need a gain
of almost six percent to get there. Maybe not today,
(24:37):
maybe in the coming weeks, but that would be the milestone,
the first four trillion dollar market cap company. There are
some other stories out there that we're paying attention to
that link AI and energy. One of them Palented it
wants to power up nuclear in America and it's teeming
up with the nuclear company to co develop and deploy
the first AI driven real time software system built exclusively
(25:00):
nuclear construction. I caught up with Palanties head of Defense
Mike Gallagher and the Uculear Company CEO Jonathan Webb to
discuss the significance of the partnership, but why NUCUIA is
a national security priority.
Speaker 14 (25:11):
I think it is how we revitalize not just a
defense industrial base, but an American industrial base.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Right, if you think about it in.
Speaker 14 (25:18):
Terms of our relative competition with our primary geo political threat, China,
we can't win merely by throwing more money and more
human beings at the problem. That's sort of a losing that.
We have to leverage our asymmetric advantage, which is innovation
and AI enabled software innovation. So applying that to the
entire American industrial base, I think is how we begin
to build things faster, more quickly. As Jonathan mentioned, it
(25:39):
shouldn't take over a decade to build a reactor in
this country. That's not just a consequence of over regulation,
though that is a key variable. It's about liberating the
human beings who are involved in producing these things day
to day to focus on their most important task rather
than trying to find a piece of paper somewhere or
(25:59):
an Excel spreadsheet. It's about allowing them to focus and
maximizing their productivity. That's what we're seeing with our deployment
of war speed in other spaces. That's what makes me
so bullish about this partnership. And that's ultimately again, how
we keep this country strong, secure and ahead of all
of our geopolitical rivals.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, indeed, think you please jump in please, Well.
Speaker 15 (26:19):
What I would say is that this is this is
absolutely a national security concern and we should all be
deeply concerned that China in the next few years is
going to become the largest nuclear power producer on planet Earth.
Speaker 3 (26:33):
They will pass the US for the.
Speaker 15 (26:35):
First time since the history of nuclear power was invented.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
This is unacceptable.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
That was Palanted's head of Defense, Mike Gallagher, and the
Nuclear company CEO Jonathan Webb, an Israel based robotics startup
aiming to improve and expand access to crucial eye surgery,
has recently closed a one hundred and twenty five million
dollars Series B funding round. The company, for Sights Robotics,
says it's from us is AI based algorithms, advanced computer vision,
(27:03):
and micro mechanics to access any point within the human eye.
For PSITE, co founder, president and chief medical officer, doctor
Joseph Nathan joins us LIVE, I think up right in
saying that in the context of robotics history, this was
one of the top series bes of all time. It's
a significant sum of money. Let's start with what you're
(27:23):
going to do with that funding and what you need
to do to make progress right.
Speaker 13 (27:28):
First of all, thank you for having me. It's fair
to be here.
Speaker 16 (27:32):
What we're developing it forced that is you said, it's
a robotic platform to tackle one of the biggest needs
in medicine, which is the vision crisis. So currently today
we have over two billion people who are vision impaired
and that creates a yearly three trillion dollar economic burden.
And this crisis is mostly due to the lack of
(27:53):
surgeons to cater to this massive amount of patience and
the lack of quality of standard in I care. So
what we're doing at foresight, as you mentioned, we're taking
AI in our technologies to augment surgeons capabilities and have
them doing many more procedures in a very precise and
(28:17):
act right way. And we're starting with care ACT, which
is our first indication.
Speaker 2 (28:22):
Does and Anathan, how big is the addressable market here?
Speaker 16 (28:27):
So this is one of the biggest markets in medicine.
This is the most common precision of medicine. Care acts
is not. The disease is a widespread condition that happens
during age, so it will happen to everybody eventually, and
we just we don't keep up with the amount of
surgeries that needs to be done. So today, for example,
(28:50):
we can do globally thirty million procedures a year, but
there's over six hundred million patients needed. So there's really
no human way to this gap. And as you mentioned,
this is the largest, the second largest be round in
surgical robotics history, and this round is going to take
us from where we are today. So we did thirty
(29:16):
three hundred procedure and animal models and we're going to
do our first in human trials later this year, and
it's going to take us through regulatory approvals and early commercialization.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Doctor Nathan, you join us from Israel and we have
to address the events of the last few weeks. Would
you just reflect on what it's been like closing this
round but also just trying to build out the technology
in an environment where Israel is at war with Iran.
Speaker 13 (29:49):
Yeah, you're definitely right.
Speaker 16 (29:51):
There were usually, you know, there's volatility in the Middle East,
but this was different. We had ballistic missiles dropping from
the sky. We had, you know, to run with our
kids through the shelters. But there's in our spirit and
the Israeli spirit is that Israeli tech delivers no matter what,
(30:12):
and during missiles coming from the sky. We closed this
Bee round and you know, this company was started five
years ago during COVID, we went through a very big
economic recession, the war in Gaza, and now I ran.
So this vote of confidence by investors and also a
strategic partner that we joined to this round, it's truly
(30:34):
amazing and I think it's a testament to Israeli resilient
and our ability to get through hurdles. If it's you know,
uncertainty in the Middle East, it could be uncertainty during development.
We're developing a disruptive solution that's very hard to do.
So I'm very very proud of the team for you know.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
And during this I ask you about the operational experience
ends of recent weeks because we also talked about the
addressable market. And it's likely right that that addressable market
is outside of Israel.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
So is it the future of.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
This company that you maintain your talent, pull your operations
in that country or you need to look at expanding
globally to capture that market.
Speaker 16 (31:20):
Right, we are a global company. Our first target market
is the US. We're going to transition our operation to
the US. We are very privileged, as you said, to
be doing good and our addressable market, you know, people
have cataut regardless of their ethnicity to graph et cetera.
(31:41):
So our first target market is the US. We're going
to transition our operation there, but also to other places.
So you're definitely right, it's outside of the realms of Israel.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
What I find so interesting about the technology is it
blends robotics hardware with software. What would you say is
your core company tens.
Speaker 13 (32:01):
Well it's faced.
Speaker 16 (32:03):
So you start with a lot of you know, building
very small mechanics and then you know, software is like
the brain takes over. So think about we're doing like,
you know, superhuman extension of you know, the surgeon hands
and arms coupled with best in class visualization and the
software brain that operates everything and gives the surgeons the
(32:26):
ability to be more precise and accurate in every case.
And what I when I try to explain what we're doing,
what we want to achieve. We want to transition to
transform the average surgeon to the Michael Jordan of surgeons.
But in every procedure, you know, regardless if it's the
first procedure of the day or the last procedure of
(32:47):
the day.
Speaker 13 (32:47):
And that's really what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
I lost you again, what you plan to do with
the funding. There's a real premium on software talent in
particular right now, but across robotics.
Speaker 16 (32:59):
Right so yeah, you know, we we were fortunate enough
to get and we have Nvidia is you know, our
neighbors and Facebook and Apple, so we're competing with the
you know, those companies on the best talent. What we
have is you know, the ability to give our team
(33:20):
member join a journey to transform the atomic market. So
currently there's you know, no robotics on the thomic market,
while other specialties have gained robotics for ten to fifteen years.
Speaker 13 (33:36):
And this is because you know, we didn't.
Speaker 16 (33:38):
Have the miniaturization, the surgy, the technological advancement that happened
over the last you know, maybe five years in order
to get a robotic platform doing such a precise micro
level movements. And when you're talking about computing power or software,
you know, the Nvidia of the world gave us the
(34:03):
ability to have this computer paper to control this micro
level precision.
Speaker 13 (34:08):
So it's you know, interconnected here.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Doctor Joseph Nathan, co founder, president and chief medical officer
for ForSight Robotics, thank you, Okay. Coming up, former CFTC
Commissioner and newly appointed CEO of the Blockchain Association, Some
Mersinger joins us to talk about the push for crypto legislation.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
As next this is Bloomberg Tech.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
The House is expected to combine two crypto bills, the
Genius and Clarity Acts, as it aims to finalize regulation
the digital currencies in the US. For more, I want
to bring in summer Mersinger. She's a former commissioner at
the Commodity Futures Training Commission CFTC and the new CEO
of the Blockchain Association. Let's star with this latest news, right,
(35:01):
This is what Bloomberg put out last night yesterday evening
out of DC that the idea is to advance two
separate measures in a single procedural vote.
Speaker 3 (35:10):
We actually had David Sacks the cryptos.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
Are on the show a couple of weeks ago, where
we put this idea to him. What do you make
of that structure and the impact that it might have.
Speaker 11 (35:21):
Yeah, it's important that they're able to bring the two
bills to the floor but also have them separate so
that the Genius Act can move on its own and
be signed into a law. I think the House is
very committed to having both stable coin legislation and market
structure legislation done before the August recess. This allows them
to do that while also preeing up Genius to move
(35:43):
to a Drugly to the President.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
How consequential is the movement of these two pieces of
legislation combined as one. In sort of the history of
how crypto and the crypto industry and the underlying technology
has built up in this country and around the world.
Speaker 11 (36:02):
Frankly, yeah, this is a pivotal moment, and I think
it's pretty historic where we are. We have two very
important pieces of legislation moving through Congress at the same
time that will have enormous impact on how this technology
and the businesses that have layered on it, how they
are regulated. It's rare that Congress has two pieces of
(36:27):
legislation in the same industry moving at the same time.
So I think that is historic in and of itself.
But given how far the industry has come, just you know,
a few years ago, they were facing enforcement, lack of clarity,
almost a hostile regulatory environment. And now we have a
(36:47):
crypto administration of pro crypto Congress, and we're going to
see major legislation put into place that will provide a
framework for this industry.
Speaker 3 (36:56):
You say, a hostile regulatory environment.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Does the content of these two bills provide the sort
of safeguards and ethical safety net that many in the
industry and Democrats also were calling for in the writing
of it.
Speaker 11 (37:13):
It does, and it provides a framework for the industry
to abide by regulations. I think, you know, previously they
were trying to be regulated. They wanted to be regulated.
They were trying to walk in the door of the
regulators to say what can we do to follow rules,
and they were being met with enforcement cases. Now they're
going to have a framework they can follow so they
(37:35):
can come under the regulatory sphere. That's both very helpful
for the industry because that provides a certainty they need
to continue to be the innovators that they are, but
it also gives a lot of safeguards to those who
want to be in this market, to retail participants of
those who are buying and selling crypto. Those safeguards are
missing right now, and this framework will provide safeguards.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Some of what the industry keeps telling me, what your
association members keep telling me, is this is about dollarization.
Speaker 3 (38:04):
Do you share that thesis?
Speaker 13 (38:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 11 (38:07):
For stable coins, for sure, it's very important that we
have the stable coin legislation. There's a lot of, you know,
national security interest in having stable coin regime here in
the United States, making sure the US dollar is the
backing for stable coins, and to continue to have the
(38:28):
US be the kind of the first place where stable
coin issuers want to go and want to use the
US dollar as their currency backing for those coins.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
I think what many of our audience might appreciate, Like
many people, they don't know what a stable coin is,
what its function is, how the utility of it to
everyday financial procedures. Do you have an explanation of that
for the layperson that's watching right now.
Speaker 11 (38:56):
Yeah, it's another way to move funds electronically. And you know,
I think for a lot of people in their mind
right now, when you move funds electronically, it takes time.
Speaker 9 (39:05):
It's not immediate
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