May 15, 2024 • 43 mins
Bloomberg's Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlow break down real estate mogul Frank McCourt's plans to build a consortium to bid for social media app TikTok’s US business. Plus, a look at the takeaways from Google's annual I/O developers conference, and OpenAI's Chief Scientist who played a key role in Sam Altman's ouster is departing the company.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
From Marhart where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in
Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlove.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Caroline hein And at Blouemog's world headquarters in New York, and.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I met Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology
coming up.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
A new bidder emerges for TikTok.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We sit down with the Project Liberty founder Frank McCourt
to discuss us.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Will bring you the takeaways from Google's annual IO Developers Conference, an.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Open a eyed chief scientist who played a key role
in Sam Altman's Auster Pole's departing the company. We'll discuss
that and so much more throughout the hour. At first,
that's checking on these markets. There is a macro playbook happening,
and it is a cooler CPI print being digestif by
the market that sends stockston record highs, record highs on
the NASAC, recordize on global stocks. More broadly, the SMP,
(01:05):
the stock six one hundred over in Europe also getting
a lift because people start.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
To factor in that. Maybe we'll we'll get those rate.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Cups from from the rev Federal reserve tenure yield, therefore
diving down seven basis points.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Bond's rally yields full.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Move on because the dollar is down, and what does
that mean Crypto is higher? We're seeing a real risk
on field to today's trade. We're up almost five percent
on bitcoin, but ed, what are you looking at on
the micro Okay?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
So Google alphabet shares higher for a second day. We
will go later in the show to our reporter that
was on the ground, new AI, back search, new iterations
of the models. Clearly investors like something in there, so
we'll unpack all the new technology. There's a few other
things that I'm watching, some movies to the downside in
the megacaps that are a drag on the Nazak one hundred,
(01:49):
both Amazon and Tesla lower Amazon interesting because lower for
a second day after the news that Adams Lipsky is
leaving his AWS CEO and Matt Garman goes into the
Ado s CEO c and in.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
Microsoft hier percentage one.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I put it in there as a proxy for open AI,
which we'll discuss later in the show. But it is
higher Caroline by a percentage point, very big AI focus
in a crowded field.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Right now, it is crowded.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And there also we're being crowded for newsflow right now,
particularly when we think about this world of social media,
the future ownership of social media, and a key player
of course that needs to be divested or indeed be
banned from the US.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
We want to discuss TikTok now.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Welcome our Bloomberg TV and radio audiences worldwide to join
the project. Liberty founder and m Court Global Executive chairman
and billionaire Frank McCourt, who is building a consortium to
bid for social media at TikTok's US business.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Frank, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
And how much money do you actually have to be
offering to TikTok.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
Well, it's too early to know how much the TikTok
is going to be sold for or if it's going
to be sold. We happen to believe it will be
sold and we're betting on that. We don't have the
information yet though on what exactly they're selling or peak
as the financial statements, so we can't really tell what
the price will be. But one thing that's important, Caroline,
(03:12):
is we're not interested in the algorithm, so we're interested
in actually an alternative web where people own and control
their data, own and control their identity. So we're not
interested in byte algorithm, which I think makes our bid
particularly unique.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Frank we will discuss later on that.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I think the technology plan that's important given that the
algorithm is essentially put on an export ban list by China.
But I'd be grateful in the first instance just to
go through some of the mechanics here if that's okay.
For example, have you spoken to TikTok or Bite Dance.
Have you spoken to the US government about this bid?
Speaker 7 (03:49):
Yeah, we have not spoken to Byte Dance or TikTok.
We have spoken to a number of other actors in
this and have been encouraged to move forward with this approach.
Remember this is this is putting forward an alternative vision
for how the Internet operates right now, whether it's bytown,
whether it's TikTok rather or our own US platforms. Our information,
(04:12):
our data, our personhood actually is scraped from us aggregated
by these big platforms and they apply algorithms to it.
I think it's time pastime, really that we have an
alternative version of the Internet where we each own and
control our identity, owning control our data and we have
all the benefits of the Internet and the wonderful technology
(04:32):
that's there connecting all of us, but we're in charge
of us, so agency has returned to individuals. That's the
technology we've been building over the last almost five years.
I greenlit this project in December of twenty nineteen, so
the tech works. We actually have a proof of concept.
There's almost a million users now on this new protocol,
so now it's time to scale it up and give
(04:53):
people a real choice.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Frank, you mentioned other actors.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I'm conscious that the sequoiir in general Atlanta take, for example,
our US based firms that sit on the cat table
of byte Dance.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Do you have their support in your bid?
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's too early for me to make these statements. We've
retained Google Tyme Securities as our advisor, along with Kirklin
and Ellis as an advisor to put together all the
pieces of this bid. But let's be realistic. This is
early in a process. It's still very noisy. We don't
know exactly what byite Dance will be selling. They've filed
(05:29):
a lawsuit reso lay, so they're fighting this, but I
am confident at the end of the day, they'll either
have to sell or shut it down, and we don't
want to see TikTok shut down. There's one hundred and
seventy million users enjoying TikTok. We want to see them
continue to enjoy it. But again we're not interested in
the algorithm, which I think makes our bid very, very unique.
(05:50):
And we can migrate these users over to a new
version of the Internet where the one hundred and seventy
million users actually participate in the value they create and
are in charge of their data. Imagine a version of
TikTok where the version is clicking on the terms of
use of each of the one hundred and seventy million users,
(06:10):
rather than the one hundred and seventy million users clicking
on the.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Terms of use of one platform.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
I don't think this data should be in the control
of any one person, one company, or a Chinese communist party.
I think it's important that we shift our mindset now
and shift the paradigm from the Internet we've been living with,
which is doing real harms and it's undermining democracy, it's
(06:37):
ripping society apart, and of course we're hearing more and
more about the harms toed children. Let's build a better version.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
We are with Frank mccaun of course, a project and
Liberty found I'm a Cork Global executive chairman and across
radio and TV. We're discussing your potential bid for TikTok
if indeed TikTok is to be sold, and that is
a big if. But all of this sounds philanthropic. Want
any money back if you're going to be raising billions
(07:04):
millions of your own potentially on the line here, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Of course, I think it's interesting that it sounds philanthropical
to you, because I do think it does have the
potential of being one of the biggest impact projects of
our lifetime. But this has to have commercial components to
it to be realistic. I mean, this can't be some
alternative internet that is, you know, better, better architected and
(07:27):
healthier for people, but no.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
One uses advertising. How will you make money back? Is
this subscription based all of the above?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Let's think of it this way. Once you unleash the
power and the innovation and the invention of a data
sharing economy, we're going to see ideas and models that
far exceed what we have today. Right now, all of
this is tied up in just a few companies just
a few platforms. Let's unleash the innovation of everyone and
(07:58):
unleash and have the value sharing proposition be a bit different. So,
of course there'll be commercial users limited only by our imagination,
and maybe there'll be some advertising models. Maybe there'll be
some saying subscription models, but it has to be highly commercial.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Frank, sorry to interrupt you. There's a recurring question. I
think Caroline would back me up that I've been very
consistent in asking it, which is, there are one hundred
and seventy million US users of TikTok, and most of
them quite like using it as it is. Is there
anything you can tell me about the product plan or
(08:32):
your engagement with the existing user base that would convince
that one hundred and seventy million that they'll want to
continue using it whatever happens.
Speaker 8 (08:40):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
This is the key to the transaction, is for them
to be excited about migrating to this new model of
the Internet, let's call it, where they own and control
their data and where they participate in the value. So
the user experience has to be every bit as easy,
polished and fun as it is now. But we wouldn't
(09:05):
users be excited about actually being in charge and actually
participating in the value.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
And so this has to.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
Be seamless in terms of the user experience, but the
underlying technology will be far far better the design of
the technology putting them in charge of themselves. So of
course it needs to be done in a way and
where the users are are as excited or more excited
about the new version. But remember right now there's a
(09:38):
risk there will be shut down. So we don't want
to see it shut down. We want to see the
one hundred and seventy million users continue to be on
a platform that our government is comfortable with and that
that byitedance quite frankly, is comfortable in selling it.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Frank we use wheres like consortium or even like coalition.
There are a number of people people who have raised
their hand about doing something with TikTok's US assets. Steve Minuchin,
former Treasury secretary, and Eric Schmidt, one of the Google founders,
kind of top of mind. Have you spoken to them
and proposed, for example, that you will just get together,
(10:16):
bring your intellectual capital together in one bid.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
No, I have not, and I do want to distinguish
our bid from what at least I understand their bids
to be about we don't need Saudi money to do
this bid. Right, We're not talking about the same type
of architecture where we just replace you know, Chinese ownership
with another ownership and then we have a continue to
(10:44):
have a centralized, autocratic, surveillance based technology where we're users,
data is scraped and aggregated.
Speaker 8 (10:52):
And so forth.
Speaker 7 (10:53):
This is not Our version is not a top down approach.
Our version is empower the users. Empower people and make
this a people's bick. Make this something where individuals have
agency and choice and power return to them. The harms
that we're seeing with the Internet. And this is not
(11:14):
limited to TikTok right. Our own platforms are built with
the same model of scraping data and exploiting it. Isn't
it time we have a better model? And I see
this opportunity as a fantastic opportunity to take proven technology
and scale it and give people a choice, an alternative.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And frank, you've got people who are at the forefront
of that argument about the harms of social media, height
being one of them. With the anxious generation, it's all
I see on social media at the moment. David Clark,
so Tim Berners Lee who helped create the World Wide Web.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
However, this sounds like.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You need crowdfunding Ultimately, how if you don't need Saudi money,
what money will you need when you get a price point.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
I think there'll be a combination of private capital, public
what i'll call it public capital, and people's capital, so.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
It will be crowdfunded.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
Well, crowdfunding has an implication, right, I don't think we're
necessarily raising money on the Internet, so that's not.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
What we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (12:11):
But look, we've brought in Google tem securities to help
organize how we raise money. This should be the investors here,
should be abroad, should should really reflect the broad coalition
we're trying to create here about reclaiming the Internet right
and using this as an opportunity to do that. So
I would imagine in addition to private capital, there would
(12:31):
be pension funds, endowments, foundations, philanthropies that are interested in
a return, but not only a return on their capital.
They have a longer term horizon and they would like
to see the Internet re architected so it's better for
all of us. And it supports democracy, right, It supports
civil society, It protects young children and The book I
(12:56):
wrote recently called Our Biggest Fight gets into some detail
on the harms that the current version of the Internet
are doing to all of us. It's not limited to children,
but especially children, and I think our number one obligation
is to protect.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Kitchen an impact thought leadership there from Frank mccork, Project
Liberty founder and a Cork Global executive chairman, with thank
him for his time and his views on the.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
Bid bleep blop, bleep blop rap peop blue people bop.
Time to get up, you silly little nerds way out.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
That was DJ Ribia at the IO Developers Conference, testing
out Google's DJ mode that Google recently added to his
Generative AI Texts.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
To Music tool.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Google also rolled out a new search engine that includes
responses written by AI.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
Bloomberg's Judy of.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Love was at the Google Developers Conference under the Big
tent at that rave and joins us for more. Let's
put the DJ performance to one side for now. The
big news I think was AI powered search.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
That's absolutely right, and this is a real seed change
in goodle search. For the past year, Doodle has been
experimenting with generative AI overviews, but that wasn't a special
test version of the product. Now they're rolling out generative
AI overviews in mainstream search, so all users in the
United States will begin seeing them this week.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Julia Love, who was inhaling and all the hype man
and all when it comes to Google Io, we thank
you so much for joining us and setting us up
into a conversation.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Now from the investor.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Perspective, Ioka, Yoshioka is with us Port Radio manager and
Wealth Enhancement Group, and Ioka, what did you make of
ultimately Google wanting to basically outshine what open ai I
put out there yesterday?
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Did they manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Have they managed to convince us that they're not in
some way behind in this race but actually leaving it?
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sure?
Speaker 11 (15:09):
I think they did a great job this year showcasing
their capabilities with artificial intelligence, and really, you know, all
the different types of ways that they are redefining what
search really is for all of us, whether it's the
overview portion within the traditional part of search, or just
(15:32):
being able to use your phone and the video screen
in order to do a search music, and all the
other ways that search is evolving, I think is what
was on display yesterday.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Okay, the stakes are pretty high right. You know, I
was reflecting earlier in the show that the stock is
up for a second day. But I think back to
kind of some of the gaffs that the alphabets had
as well in demoing it's generative are tools, and how
that's impacted the stock. Do you think they've done enough
to convince investors for the long term that that, yeah,
we got this on a consumer facing or business facing AI.
Speaker 11 (16:12):
You know, I think the landscape is rapidly evolving, and
so I think it's difficult to say whether or not
this is whether Alphabet or Google is really in that
poll position. At this point. With AI, it's clearly got
a much bigger competitive landscape than what was traditional searches
competitive landscape, and so we'll have to see how this
(16:34):
evolves over the coming months and years.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Many feeling on the street that they've regained the AI
initiative here, many a consumer excited by how much better
Gmail is going to become, for example, and many excited
that maybe Google Glass is coming.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
For a reiteration and a modern day take.
Speaker 12 (16:53):
But I'm interested ultimately as to whether this actually adds
to revenue, adds to future profitability for a business when
they're undercutting on a price perspective significantly, open a eyes.
Speaker 11 (17:04):
Offering absolutely, and then you know, the cost of all
of this AI integrating it into all the different programs
that they will have, all the different offerings that they'll have,
is still going to continue to increase, and we saw
that with the most recent quarter and their increase in
(17:24):
capital spending for A twenty twenty four. So we'll have
to see how this really shapes up from a financial perspective,
both on the top line side, from a revenue perspective,
as well as just the overall impact to earnings.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Kuren mentioned something really interesting, which is hardware's kind of
back and Meta and the ray bands is coming up
every week on the show. If you're an investor in
a portfolio manager, do you sit your desk in the
morning and go, you know what, I've got to get
the research desk on this hardware thing.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
On the hardware use case of AI.
Speaker 11 (18:00):
I'm not sure if I'm cool enough to you know,
you get all of the hardware, whether it's Google Glass
or metas Arabians. But you know, I think everybody's looking
for that next killer sort of technology, whether it's hardware
or software, and you know, that's the portion that I
think everybody's still looking for when it comes to generative AI.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Also, I think many forget that there is a weight
on Google's shoulders here. They cannot roll out products in
quite the same fast pace as a more startup version
of a generative AI bid is at the moment because
they've got billions of users and.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Already we've seen them rush.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Many would say the image generation side of the equation
and look at the well, the backlash they got for
that with Gemini.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
How much are you.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Frustrated though, by the fact that they're talking up a
lot of things that then sort of leave for our
imagination as and when they're going to be in our hands.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
You know, it is a level of frustration when it
comes to the overall communication from Google. I think they
are in a rush because they're in a position to
sort of protect what they have and the pole position
that they're in regarding search.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
So, you know, we'll.
Speaker 11 (19:15):
See if they've kind of been able to refine some
of that going forward. I think the most recent Google
Io yesterday really showed that they were at least able
to refine it from last year, and so we'll see
if that continues next year.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yako Yoshioka, portfolio manager at Welfare Enhancement Group, I think
you are cool enough come back on the show.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
Bring you Meta ray bands with you. Thank you?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
All right, We'll watching shares of Sony as we had
to break investor friendly policies coming out overnight, authorization of
a buyback plan that's been universally around the world. Something
investors have cheered stock at one point nine percent overnight.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
It's time for talking tech and first up, the Yemeni
government says they're holding back repairs on a key internet
cable that's been damaged in the Red Sea.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
This comes as the.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Government conducts an investigation into the cable owner's alleged ties
to Huthi militia. The cable operators, Telly Yemen, controlled much
of the damaged cables that connect Europe to Southeast Asia.
The Yemeni government has notified twenty Global Group members of
the probe into Tell Yemen's supposed associations with that group.
Plus Alphabet's YouTube has blocked videos of a Hong Kong
(20:42):
protest song in the city, just days after a local
court approved the injunction. Google's video Network said it will
follow the court's ruling and block thirty two versions of
the video titled Glory to Hong Kong. While existing laws
already punish people for playing the song on charges of sedition,
the Chinese government has sought to erase it from all platforms,
(21:03):
and PC maker russree Pie says it's considering an IPO
in London, in what would be the first sizable.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
Listing for the city since February.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
The company says it intends to publish a registration dock
with the London Stock Exchange, but did not disclose how
much it plans to raise CARROC.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Meanwhile, let's just shift our attention towards well a key
founder Andreill founder Palmer Lucky about how his AI and
autonomous systems are actually changing on the battlefield. We've been
speaking to him, not only here on the show just
last week, but Bloomberg Original's host Emily Chang caught up
with him to discuss his mission to tackle legacy defense
contractors and the challenges of scaling a defense teching in Nicorn.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Just take a listen.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Right now. He Androl's very much in a high growth stage.
We've done a lot of things that I'm very, very
proud of but I'm very aware of the fact that
we are not a profitable business. We are living on
borrowed time, and so it's hard for me to come
and feel like I've made it when I know that
anyone can raise money from vcs, buy a really big
(22:04):
office and feel a full of people. The question is
are those people building the right things and will those
things pay off?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
You can catch more of that conversation on the circuit
with them any chang tonight six pm ET on Bloomberg
Television or go stream it at eight pm.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
On Bloomberg Originals from New York.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
From San Francisco, It's the Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed love Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
And I Hied in New York.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Let's get you a quick check on these markets, because
we are at record highs votes and that is because
the macro picture is one of inflation, somewhat calling the
CPI print was what the market wanted to see and
we're likely to see therefore record highs. The close for
at the moment, then ask that one hundred the NASGAC
and indeed the S and P five hundred global benchmarks
at record highs two the sci Or World Country World
Index up nine tenths.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Of a percent and a new record.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And I'm looking at bitcoin, all risk assets doing well
in the idea that the Fed might actually cut this year,
that being factored back in by the market, and we're
up more than five percent on bitcoin as the dollar
goes lower.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
And move on to some of the individual movers.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Well, A key player that's helping the benchmarks from their
key points perspective is in video. We're up more than
three percent. Helps when you're worth more than two three
trillion dollars. But it's also notable that we're actually gaking
some thirty F filings this morning and a lot of
more people actually upping their stakes in in video. Remember
their earnings come out next week Monday. Dot Com you
Sean and on this ed on the call. It's a
small company, but it's a big move. So we used
(23:32):
to highlight up more than twenty percent. This is about
building APIs for work projects, in particular software that's doing well.
It would seem from a demand perspective at the moment
and Telecometalia.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Maybe just maybe we're going to be bought.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
By KKR they're putting in their twenty two billion euro bid.
They're trying to get the EU on board with this.
This is all about sort of the phone network ultimate
of Telecometalia. So at the close, we're up more than
two percent over there in Europe for this particular player.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
But what are you looking at?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Ed A big story that broke pretty late yesterday, and
that is open ai chief scientist and co founder Ilia
Sutskiva is leaving the artificial intelligence company, a departure that
basically ends months of speculation in Silicon Valley about the
future of who is a top AI researcher, someone that
played a key role in the brief ouster of Sam
(24:19):
Outman last year joining us More is Bloomberg, Serene Gafari Scherene. Okay,
this is complicated because Ilia was at the center of
that mad weekend that you and I worked for forty
eight hours straight to work out what.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Was going on.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
But he's one of the original founder's, former board member
of open ai, and he's saying I'm leaving the company.
I guess do we know why? Specifically he's leaving open ai.
Speaker 13 (24:46):
So he didn't say much about exactly why he's leaving.
But you know, we know that basically since the brief
ouster of Sam Maltman, Ilia Satskuber, who was once you know,
a very.
Speaker 14 (25:00):
Common figure in the office, has not been.
Speaker 15 (25:02):
Seen as much.
Speaker 14 (25:03):
There is a lot of speculation, rumors about well, what's
going to happen with Ilia?
Speaker 15 (25:07):
Is he going to leave the company?
Speaker 14 (25:09):
And so, you know, internally, I think it wasn't so
much of a big surprise to many people that eventually
Ilia would leave. Now what he's going to do next,
he said, going to he has a new project and
he'll share details in due time.
Speaker 15 (25:21):
So we're all waiting to see.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Ultimately this comes down what was thought was a difference
in opinion of the ultimate way you build generative artificial
intelligence and artificial general intelligence for the good of humanity.
Is that what's underlying here a philosophical philosophical difference, or
ultimately that there's other things that need to be built
(25:46):
at this moment of great exuberance around the technology.
Speaker 14 (25:49):
You know, I think it's really hard to say. What
we do know is that Ilia Setskiv is someone who
was working at these issues kind of at the intersection
right of ethics and AI. He co led the super
Alignment Team is what they call it there, which is
all about how to make sure that AI is aligned
with human values. So you know, of course, this is
someone who's interested in the social implications of the technology
(26:10):
that he's building. Now, whether ultimately his decision to leave
is just because he'd rather do something else or because
he may have some deeper conflicts that are unsettled with
the company, I think is still very much a big question.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
And also others leaving in his wake will have more
to report out throughout the day. I'm sure Blueberg's Sharan
KAfari thank you for breaking it down on that key
departure coming from open AI. Now, let's just stick with
artificial intelligence and turn to the growing legal backlash against
companies as they experience rapid growth. Now, also how you
(26:43):
can harness generator AI in the legal sphere too. We
can have both of these conversations at the same time
with Gila Hyatt, CTO, co founder of Darrowner. It's an
aipower legal intelligence platform back by y Combinator.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Your platform is used by some of the top US
law firms. It connects with a three thousand gators with
new cases.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Basically, you're facilitating over ten million dollars in litigation HeLa
as if lawyers weren't busy enough, you're finding ways in
which there can be well group lawsuits. Broad interesting at
the moment that we've just seen one versus the US
government on the behalf of TikTok happening great.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
First of all, it's great to be here, and I
also want to say about justice intelligence in general. So
the question regarding where their lawyers are busy enough. Our
mission is to identify impactful cases that have a lot
of both social and an legal impact around issues that
(27:40):
are basically harming consumers, businesses, and employees. We're mostly focused
around privacy issues, consumer protection, climate, environmental protection, which is
super super important, and we're harnessing AI to do.
Speaker 15 (27:56):
So to identify socially impactful.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Data. How does the AI technology work?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, So we are in a very interesting intersection between
looking at legal data and event data, which is pretty
much anything that can happen on social media or events
happening online. And the way we do so is we
look at tremendous amounts of legal data, which are cases,
case law, regulations, new laws are coming in and understanding
(28:28):
what are the fact patterns that the case law is
talking about.
Speaker 15 (28:31):
And how those events take action on everyday life.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Is this underpinned by specific LLM or someone else's AI
model or is it something you built yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, So the process is heavily infused in LMS, which
is agnostic to what kind of LLMS that we're using,
because it's a multi process. It's a multi step process
which takes into consideration, ingesting the data, understanding what it is,
and basically extracting the type of legal story or the
legal phenomena that we're taking into action. So a lot
(29:05):
of people assume that legalies is basically a different dialect
of English, and they're correct to do so.
Speaker 15 (29:10):
And this is the kind of intersection that we're looking at.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Where it's.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, sorry, I mean to interrupt, Guila. I I suffered
three three years of law school and legal went in
one air and out the other.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
Please continue your answeert Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And and as a non lawyer myself, just as a
tech person, I am fascinated by by what kind of
how can we align this type of language and make
it usable for for consumers and for the people where
often most of the legal violations that happened to them,
they can happen pretty much in every kind of type
of service or or or product or business that you're
(29:47):
interacting with, And there is a constant fight over our attention.
Speaker 15 (29:51):
Yeah, and this is and and this is what we're
trying and trying to.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Build where we were consumers don't have to be worried
about their rights being vito later or even the quality
of air around them is deteriorating because there's not enough
focus and not enough there's not enough power to the
consumer to understand.
Speaker 15 (30:10):
And to ingest that amount of data.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
And on the other side, lawyers, the lawyers are only
now starting to develop the intelligence gathering skills that are
required in order trying to stand the full picture supported
by facts and generally create more impactful cases.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yes, we've already heard some of the issues of hallucination
when it comes to looking back at previous contracts, previous
cases via the use of generative AI and sometimes and
making them up. But Gila, I'm also interested that I
can't imagine there's too many lawyers out there, too many
companies out there upset that their contracts are.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Being used as training data.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
There's an awful lot of artists out there right now,
an awful lot of creatives out there right now who
worried about their own creations being used in large language models.
How much you're seeing that as an area you're waiting into.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So I think the discourse around AI and the concept
of originality and the owners of the content is a
hot topic and we should discuss it from multiple angles
in a way that we want to keep encouraging originality
and humanity and content creation around that so people will
keep innovating rather than just replicating replicating content.
Speaker 15 (31:22):
That is doesn't have much impact.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I think that also from from the legal perspective, a
lot of high margin task work, just like contracts, will
be scarce and the focus will have to shift to
different kinds of tasks that require the core human impact
and the core human.
Speaker 15 (31:44):
Seed that is required to create such a task.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
So I think in the next in upcoming years, we're
going to see maybe different ways to compensate content creators
and having a more more clear and transparent way of
how this data is going to be used in terms
of hallucination. How we solved it at Darrow is that
first of all, we are validating we're being the content
(32:07):
that we're creating, because we are very, very focused on
creating a trustworthy insight based on our sources, and also
we are also providing the sources for our clients to
understand how we got to this decision. So we're not
talking for place decision ranking at its core rather than
empower empower our client to understand how we got to
(32:29):
this conclusion.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Heila Hiatt, CEO and co founder Darrow and Darrow named
after Clarence Darrow, the nineteenth century lawyer from the Midwest
who represented trade unions in all those whole profile cases.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Now coming up, we're going to be joined by the
CEO of Chime talking a little bit about fintech and
discuss the company's new offering.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
More details than that next carot.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah. Meanwhile, I just want to shine a light on
some Lucashaw reporting ed because Netflix apparently going after some
key NFL game around the Christmas time.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Once again there's foray into live events. This time live
sports is an interesting take.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
We're just down five ten percent interestingly on Netflix on
the day, but they're likely to air two NFL games
this Christmas Day and its largest push into live events.
Speaker 16 (33:15):
That's something of their technology.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Chime the fintech, known for its fee free banking services,
is now offering consumers the option of accessing as much
as five hundred dollars of their paycheck before they arrive.
Let's get more on this with Chime CEO Chris Britt,
who joins me here in San Francisco. So it's interesting
because you're offering the option to do this for free
or if you want it instantly, two dollars, and you'd
(33:52):
imagine that those that take up the offer would veer
to the free side.
Speaker 6 (33:58):
Maybe not. What's in it for you, guys?
Speaker 17 (34:01):
Well, Chime is all about helping everyday people unlock financial progress.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
We do that with a fee free checking.
Speaker 17 (34:07):
Account and a host of services that help people with
short term liquidity and credit building. And what's in it
for us with this new service called my pay is
that consumers would sign up for Chime get direct deposit
and then, you know, if you think about the way
payroll works in America, most people will get paid every
two weeks, and so with this service, now any point
(34:28):
along that journey towards your next paycheck, you can access
a portion of your paycheck up to five hundred dollars.
So what's in it for us is that we really
want to get people to sign up and use Chime
as their primary bank account. This is just another reason
why people would.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Bring them into a broader sort of ecosystem. Things are
difficult right now to read on the consumer. So if
you think about those that might be inclined to take
advantage of my pay they may also be under financial duress. Right,
So is there a technology in place that you guys
use for risk as esment for example, if somebody's eligible
(35:02):
to do.
Speaker 17 (35:02):
This, oh for sure, and I couldn't agree more. You know,
it's something like sixty percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck,
so that doesn't mean everyone's under financial duress. But usually
around the next time that your paycheck is coming to
your account, you probably have a low balance situation. That's
where banks oftentimes take advantage of consumers.
Speaker 8 (35:21):
So for us, giving people access to.
Speaker 17 (35:25):
Their payroll at an earlier clip is just a huge
unlock for them and is extremely helpful with them getting,
you know, getting through the next paycheck.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's a new area of banking services that has been
popular elsewhere. Chris And has sort of fallen into a
legal gray area from a consumer protection perspective. How are
you working with consumer rights screups, how are you working
with government to.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Ensure that you are above board at all times?
Speaker 8 (35:52):
That's a great point.
Speaker 17 (35:53):
Actually, this this whole category, it's referred to as Earned
Wage access or EWA.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
It's an emerging area.
Speaker 17 (36:00):
There's a number of companies that have popped up, and
the regulation in the area is still still sort of
a work in progress. So we are sort of monitoring
that closely. We are in regular contact with regulators. But
we've actually launched this product not as an EWA product,
but actually as a credit product, and we've done it
in coordination with our bank partners. So the legal construct
(36:22):
for a credit product is fully articulated, and we've been
able to design a product that complies with all the
rules and regulations the same way that we do with
all of our products at Chime.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Something else that is still work in progress is potentially
you becoming a public company.
Speaker 15 (36:37):
Now.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
You said back into some of the company was is
IPO ready as it can be? And you're assessing how
the markets look for the first half of twenty twenty four,
So Chris, how do they look?
Speaker 5 (36:46):
Are you coming soon?
Speaker 17 (36:48):
The I think the market's actually looked pretty good, and
the business looks pretty good.
Speaker 9 (36:52):
You know.
Speaker 17 (36:52):
We ended Q four of last year is the number
one most downloaded banking app in America. We have over
million monthly transacting actives in the account and using our
Chime accounts, and the majority of our members are using
us as a primary direct deposit and every day spending cards.
(37:14):
So the business is performing extremely well. We actually had
a profitable Q one. We don't have IPO plans to
announce in this meeting today, but I would say that
an IPO is not too far out on the horizon,
probably not twenty four, but definitely something that we're thinking
a lot about.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
So Chime's been really interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Some of your team know that they're here with us,
but you had this twenty five billion dollar valuation in
twenty twenty one, and the valuations come down. That's not
unique for your story. Are you kind of happy about that?
We've seen down rounds or low evaluations set you up
quite well for whatever future you decide well.
Speaker 17 (37:52):
Valuations are always a moment in time, right, and they
always fluctuate to some extent. We haven't done a new
financing since twenty twenty one, so it's clear, you know.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
What the market reported valuation to be fat right.
Speaker 8 (38:03):
You know, we don't think too much about that.
Speaker 17 (38:06):
We're sort of heads down, just focused on executing and
not thinking too much about a specific valuation. But I
do think that the overall reset in the fintech category
has been a great opportunity for us.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Well, some companies are trying to.
Speaker 17 (38:18):
You know, figure out where they might land or you know,
merger opportunities or needing to raise money.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
We're extremely well capitalized.
Speaker 17 (38:24):
We have close to a billion dollars of cash on
the balance sheet, so we've been able to work not
over but close to a billion dollars of cash.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
So we've been able to stay.
Speaker 17 (38:32):
Aggressive and grow market share in a period of you know,
disruption for the category, and I think that's been good
for us as a market leader.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Chime see, Chris Breys. Just great to have you back
in the studio here in San Francisco. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Talk art for a moment because Christy has just managed
to pull off a one hundred and fifteen million dollar
sale despite a cyber attack. It's an apparent hack that
actually hobbled the company's website in the days leading up
to the all important May sales, and Christy's website is
actually still redirecting to a temporary site as a sale began,
and prompting questions around whether or not this New York
(39:12):
auction could would happen at all, But around the company's
handling the private client confidential information, there were some concerns.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Now, a spokesperson told Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That Christie's continues to work with an additional team of
technology experts.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
We're determining the scope and the impact of this incident.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
Ed okay, and who better to talk about cybersecurity than
Steve Stone, head of Rubrics zero Labs, which recently put
out its latest report called the State of Data Security
Measuring Your Data Risks. And I take this very seriously, Steve,
because so many CSOs, CISOs CIOs watched this program, and
(39:51):
the conclusion of the report of those you surveyed is
that almost all of them are suffering direct emotional psychological
in from cyber attacks.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
I found that to be astonishing.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 18 (40:03):
Well, first, thank you for having me. I'm really excited
to be here and excited to engage their audience. And
I think the emotional impact was one of the things
that really jumped out at us, and I think it
makes sense.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
What are we talking about here, emotional impacts. So I
think there's a few things.
Speaker 18 (40:15):
I think the first is the vast majority of more
than sixteen hundred senior leaders both in IT and security
we engaged with, you know, more than ninety percent of
them reported having an emotional or psychological impact that ranged
from losing sleep, fear over losing their job, or fear
of their teams losing trust in them. And so we
see that consistently year over year, and I think it
(40:36):
really speaks to how this affects us as individuals and
not just as businesses.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Let's talk about how it affects businesses, to though, Steve,
and how these cso CIOs are trying to get a
little bit of bed, better sleep by putting precautions in place.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
So I think that's the great question. That's the endpoint.
Speaker 18 (40:55):
We can talk about the problems all day long, but
the real goal is reducing risk. And as we did
this research, a few things jumped out at us that
really impact that risk reduction and change that dynamic. First,
organizations have to be prepared for a contested recovery. You
see it in the news all the time. We've seen
it for years, really consistent touch point. You've got to
(41:15):
recover your data. You have to be resilient, and the
attackers know that and they'll do their best to stop it.
And the second part is when we look at this
from a data perspective, you have to involve a high
number of teams. This is not a seesoll problem, this
is not a CIO problem.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
This is everyone's problem.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
State very quickly, we're to stand the show there must
be a growing threat. Therefore what are they facing from
the other side of the table.
Speaker 18 (41:39):
I think the growing threat comes down to we're creating
a risk surface area that we're not paying attention to,
and that comes down to sensitive data.
Speaker 6 (41:46):
So if we look at healthcare, healthcare is in the news.
Speaker 18 (41:49):
There's not a unique threat to healthcare, but we see
outsized impacts of ransomwa against healthcare. Four hundred percent more
sensitive data is impacted in a healthcare intrusion than in
other industries. And that's not because it's different. It's not
because the threats are novel. It comes down to sensitive data.
And so when we look at how we change this,
we've got to start with where those impacts actually are.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Very briefly, Steve, is it many the US where you're
seeing the anxiety?
Speaker 5 (42:14):
Is this global phenomenon.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
We're seeing it globally.
Speaker 18 (42:17):
There are really consistent trends across all regions, all industries
from a threat perspective, where we see the changes in
impacts really come down to industry unique aspects.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Steve Stone taking us through the industries implicated, the individuals implicated.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
We thank you so much for some of.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
The tactics to deploy Steve Stone's head of Rubric Zero
Labs on.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
All things cyber.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Meanwhile, that's all things done on this addition of Blue
med technology.
Speaker 7 (42:42):
ED.
Speaker 6 (42:42):
I know I should be paying attention.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
I am, but during that conversation a load of CIOs
and CSO has added me on LinkedIn, so we know
they're watching. And if you have any reaction to Seeve,
get in touch with us or recap the conversation in
the show ED with your social I don't get distracted.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
This is on the ground reporting.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
Check out the podcast recap that conversation with Steve and
all the others, particularly with Frank McCourt Jr. And his
new bid for TikTok's US assets. You know where to
find the pod. So many of you listening to us
on your way to work, on your way home, and
your lunch break, all around the world, and we really
appreciate it. From SF and New York City, this is
Bloombo technology
From Marhart where Innovation of Money and Power Collie in
Silicon Valley, NBN.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and Ed Ludlove.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm Caroline hein And at Blouemog's world headquarters in New York, and.
Speaker 4 (00:27):
I met Ludlow in San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology
coming up.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
A new bidder emerges for TikTok.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
We sit down with the Project Liberty founder Frank McCourt
to discuss us.
Speaker 4 (00:39):
Will bring you the takeaways from Google's annual IO Developers Conference, an.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
Open a eyed chief scientist who played a key role
in Sam Altman's Auster Pole's departing the company. We'll discuss
that and so much more throughout the hour. At first,
that's checking on these markets. There is a macro playbook happening,
and it is a cooler CPI print being digestif by
the market that sends stockston record highs, record highs on
the NASAC, recordize on global stocks. More broadly, the SMP,
(01:05):
the stock six one hundred over in Europe also getting
a lift because people start.
Speaker 5 (01:08):
To factor in that. Maybe we'll we'll get those rate.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Cups from from the rev Federal reserve tenure yield, therefore
diving down seven basis points.
Speaker 5 (01:15):
Bond's rally yields full.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Move on because the dollar is down, and what does
that mean Crypto is higher? We're seeing a real risk
on field to today's trade. We're up almost five percent
on bitcoin, but ed, what are you looking at on
the micro Okay?
Speaker 4 (01:27):
So Google alphabet shares higher for a second day. We
will go later in the show to our reporter that
was on the ground, new AI, back search, new iterations
of the models. Clearly investors like something in there, so
we'll unpack all the new technology. There's a few other
things that I'm watching, some movies to the downside in
the megacaps that are a drag on the Nazak one hundred,
(01:49):
both Amazon and Tesla lower Amazon interesting because lower for
a second day after the news that Adams Lipsky is
leaving his AWS CEO and Matt Garman goes into the
Ado s CEO c and in.
Speaker 6 (02:00):
Microsoft hier percentage one.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
I put it in there as a proxy for open AI,
which we'll discuss later in the show. But it is
higher Caroline by a percentage point, very big AI focus
in a crowded field.
Speaker 5 (02:11):
Right now, it is crowded.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
And there also we're being crowded for newsflow right now,
particularly when we think about this world of social media,
the future ownership of social media, and a key player
of course that needs to be divested or indeed be
banned from the US.
Speaker 5 (02:28):
We want to discuss TikTok now.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Welcome our Bloomberg TV and radio audiences worldwide to join
the project. Liberty founder and m Court Global Executive chairman
and billionaire Frank McCourt, who is building a consortium to
bid for social media at TikTok's US business.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
Frank, welcome to the show.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
And how much money do you actually have to be
offering to TikTok.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
Well, it's too early to know how much the TikTok
is going to be sold for or if it's going
to be sold. We happen to believe it will be
sold and we're betting on that. We don't have the
information yet though on what exactly they're selling or peak
as the financial statements, so we can't really tell what
the price will be. But one thing that's important, Caroline,
(03:12):
is we're not interested in the algorithm, so we're interested
in actually an alternative web where people own and control
their data, own and control their identity. So we're not
interested in byte algorithm, which I think makes our bid
particularly unique.
Speaker 6 (03:28):
Frank we will discuss later on that.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
I think the technology plan that's important given that the
algorithm is essentially put on an export ban list by China.
But I'd be grateful in the first instance just to
go through some of the mechanics here if that's okay.
For example, have you spoken to TikTok or Bite Dance.
Have you spoken to the US government about this bid?
Speaker 7 (03:49):
Yeah, we have not spoken to Byte Dance or TikTok.
We have spoken to a number of other actors in
this and have been encouraged to move forward with this approach.
Remember this is this is putting forward an alternative vision
for how the Internet operates right now, whether it's bytown,
whether it's TikTok rather or our own US platforms. Our information,
(04:12):
our data, our personhood actually is scraped from us aggregated
by these big platforms and they apply algorithms to it.
I think it's time pastime, really that we have an
alternative version of the Internet where we each own and
control our identity, owning control our data and we have
all the benefits of the Internet and the wonderful technology
(04:32):
that's there connecting all of us, but we're in charge
of us, so agency has returned to individuals. That's the
technology we've been building over the last almost five years.
I greenlit this project in December of twenty nineteen, so
the tech works. We actually have a proof of concept.
There's almost a million users now on this new protocol,
so now it's time to scale it up and give
(04:53):
people a real choice.
Speaker 6 (04:55):
Frank, you mentioned other actors.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
I'm conscious that the sequoiir in general Atlanta take, for example,
our US based firms that sit on the cat table
of byte Dance.
Speaker 6 (05:05):
Do you have their support in your bid?
Speaker 7 (05:08):
It's too early for me to make these statements. We've
retained Google Tyme Securities as our advisor, along with Kirklin
and Ellis as an advisor to put together all the
pieces of this bid. But let's be realistic. This is
early in a process. It's still very noisy. We don't
know exactly what byite Dance will be selling. They've filed
(05:29):
a lawsuit reso lay, so they're fighting this, but I
am confident at the end of the day, they'll either
have to sell or shut it down, and we don't
want to see TikTok shut down. There's one hundred and
seventy million users enjoying TikTok. We want to see them
continue to enjoy it. But again we're not interested in
the algorithm, which I think makes our bid very, very unique.
(05:50):
And we can migrate these users over to a new
version of the Internet where the one hundred and seventy
million users actually participate in the value they create and
are in charge of their data. Imagine a version of
TikTok where the version is clicking on the terms of
use of each of the one hundred and seventy million users,
(06:10):
rather than the one hundred and seventy million users clicking
on the.
Speaker 8 (06:13):
Terms of use of one platform.
Speaker 7 (06:15):
I don't think this data should be in the control
of any one person, one company, or a Chinese communist party.
I think it's important that we shift our mindset now
and shift the paradigm from the Internet we've been living with,
which is doing real harms and it's undermining democracy, it's
(06:37):
ripping society apart, and of course we're hearing more and
more about the harms toed children. Let's build a better version.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
We are with Frank mccaun of course, a project and
Liberty found I'm a Cork Global executive chairman and across
radio and TV. We're discussing your potential bid for TikTok
if indeed TikTok is to be sold, and that is
a big if. But all of this sounds philanthropic. Want
any money back if you're going to be raising billions
(07:04):
millions of your own potentially on the line here, Yeah.
Speaker 7 (07:07):
Of course, I think it's interesting that it sounds philanthropical
to you, because I do think it does have the
potential of being one of the biggest impact projects of
our lifetime. But this has to have commercial components to
it to be realistic. I mean, this can't be some
alternative internet that is, you know, better, better architected and
(07:27):
healthier for people, but no.
Speaker 5 (07:29):
One uses advertising. How will you make money back? Is
this subscription based all of the above?
Speaker 7 (07:36):
Let's think of it this way. Once you unleash the
power and the innovation and the invention of a data
sharing economy, we're going to see ideas and models that
far exceed what we have today. Right now, all of
this is tied up in just a few companies just
a few platforms. Let's unleash the innovation of everyone and
(07:58):
unleash and have the value sharing proposition be a bit different. So,
of course there'll be commercial users limited only by our imagination,
and maybe there'll be some advertising models. Maybe there'll be
some saying subscription models, but it has to be highly commercial.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Frank, sorry to interrupt you. There's a recurring question. I
think Caroline would back me up that I've been very
consistent in asking it, which is, there are one hundred
and seventy million US users of TikTok, and most of
them quite like using it as it is. Is there
anything you can tell me about the product plan or
(08:32):
your engagement with the existing user base that would convince
that one hundred and seventy million that they'll want to
continue using it whatever happens.
Speaker 8 (08:40):
Yeah, of course.
Speaker 7 (08:41):
This is the key to the transaction, is for them
to be excited about migrating to this new model of
the Internet, let's call it, where they own and control
their data and where they participate in the value. So
the user experience has to be every bit as easy,
polished and fun as it is now. But we wouldn't
(09:05):
users be excited about actually being in charge and actually
participating in the value.
Speaker 6 (09:13):
And so this has to.
Speaker 7 (09:14):
Be seamless in terms of the user experience, but the
underlying technology will be far far better the design of
the technology putting them in charge of themselves. So of
course it needs to be done in a way and
where the users are are as excited or more excited
about the new version. But remember right now there's a
(09:38):
risk there will be shut down. So we don't want
to see it shut down. We want to see the
one hundred and seventy million users continue to be on
a platform that our government is comfortable with and that
that byitedance quite frankly, is comfortable in selling it.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Frank we use wheres like consortium or even like coalition.
There are a number of people people who have raised
their hand about doing something with TikTok's US assets. Steve Minuchin,
former Treasury secretary, and Eric Schmidt, one of the Google founders,
kind of top of mind. Have you spoken to them
and proposed, for example, that you will just get together,
(10:16):
bring your intellectual capital together in one bid.
Speaker 7 (10:22):
No, I have not, and I do want to distinguish
our bid from what at least I understand their bids
to be about we don't need Saudi money to do
this bid. Right, We're not talking about the same type
of architecture where we just replace you know, Chinese ownership
with another ownership and then we have a continue to
(10:44):
have a centralized, autocratic, surveillance based technology where we're users,
data is scraped and aggregated.
Speaker 8 (10:52):
And so forth.
Speaker 7 (10:53):
This is not Our version is not a top down approach.
Our version is empower the users. Empower people and make
this a people's bick. Make this something where individuals have
agency and choice and power return to them. The harms
that we're seeing with the Internet. And this is not
(11:14):
limited to TikTok right. Our own platforms are built with
the same model of scraping data and exploiting it. Isn't
it time we have a better model? And I see
this opportunity as a fantastic opportunity to take proven technology
and scale it and give people a choice, an alternative.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
And frank, you've got people who are at the forefront
of that argument about the harms of social media, height
being one of them. With the anxious generation, it's all
I see on social media at the moment. David Clark,
so Tim Berners Lee who helped create the World Wide Web.
Speaker 5 (11:47):
However, this sounds like.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
You need crowdfunding Ultimately, how if you don't need Saudi money,
what money will you need when you get a price point.
Speaker 7 (11:57):
I think there'll be a combination of private capital, public
what i'll call it public capital, and people's capital, so.
Speaker 5 (12:04):
It will be crowdfunded.
Speaker 7 (12:05):
Well, crowdfunding has an implication, right, I don't think we're
necessarily raising money on the Internet, so that's not.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
What we're talking about.
Speaker 7 (12:11):
But look, we've brought in Google tem securities to help
organize how we raise money. This should be the investors here,
should be abroad, should should really reflect the broad coalition
we're trying to create here about reclaiming the Internet right
and using this as an opportunity to do that. So
I would imagine in addition to private capital, there would
(12:31):
be pension funds, endowments, foundations, philanthropies that are interested in
a return, but not only a return on their capital.
They have a longer term horizon and they would like
to see the Internet re architected so it's better for
all of us. And it supports democracy, right, It supports
civil society, It protects young children and The book I
(12:56):
wrote recently called Our Biggest Fight gets into some detail
on the harms that the current version of the Internet
are doing to all of us. It's not limited to children,
but especially children, and I think our number one obligation
is to protect.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
Kitchen an impact thought leadership there from Frank mccork, Project
Liberty founder and a Cork Global executive chairman, with thank
him for his time and his views on the.
Speaker 9 (13:19):
Bid bleep blop, bleep blop rap peop blue people bop.
Time to get up, you silly little nerds way out.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
That was DJ Ribia at the IO Developers Conference, testing
out Google's DJ mode that Google recently added to his
Generative AI Texts.
Speaker 6 (13:50):
To Music tool.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
Google also rolled out a new search engine that includes
responses written by AI.
Speaker 6 (13:57):
Bloomberg's Judy of.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
Love was at the Google Developers Conference under the Big
tent at that rave and joins us for more. Let's
put the DJ performance to one side for now. The
big news I think was AI powered search.
Speaker 10 (14:14):
That's absolutely right, and this is a real seed change
in goodle search. For the past year, Doodle has been
experimenting with generative AI overviews, but that wasn't a special
test version of the product. Now they're rolling out generative
AI overviews in mainstream search, so all users in the
United States will begin seeing them this week.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
Julia Love, who was inhaling and all the hype man
and all when it comes to Google Io, we thank
you so much for joining us and setting us up
into a conversation.
Speaker 5 (14:45):
Now from the investor.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Perspective, Ioka, Yoshioka is with us Port Radio manager and
Wealth Enhancement Group, and Ioka, what did you make of
ultimately Google wanting to basically outshine what open ai I
put out there yesterday?
Speaker 5 (15:01):
Did they manage to do that?
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Have they managed to convince us that they're not in
some way behind in this race but actually leaving it?
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Sure?
Speaker 11 (15:09):
I think they did a great job this year showcasing
their capabilities with artificial intelligence, and really, you know, all
the different types of ways that they are redefining what
search really is for all of us, whether it's the
overview portion within the traditional part of search, or just
(15:32):
being able to use your phone and the video screen
in order to do a search music, and all the
other ways that search is evolving, I think is what
was on display yesterday.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Okay, the stakes are pretty high right. You know, I
was reflecting earlier in the show that the stock is
up for a second day. But I think back to
kind of some of the gaffs that the alphabets had
as well in demoing it's generative are tools, and how
that's impacted the stock. Do you think they've done enough
to convince investors for the long term that that, yeah,
we got this on a consumer facing or business facing AI.
Speaker 11 (16:12):
You know, I think the landscape is rapidly evolving, and
so I think it's difficult to say whether or not
this is whether Alphabet or Google is really in that
poll position. At this point. With AI, it's clearly got
a much bigger competitive landscape than what was traditional searches
competitive landscape, and so we'll have to see how this
(16:34):
evolves over the coming months and years.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
Many feeling on the street that they've regained the AI
initiative here, many a consumer excited by how much better
Gmail is going to become, for example, and many excited
that maybe Google Glass is coming.
Speaker 5 (16:49):
For a reiteration and a modern day take.
Speaker 12 (16:53):
But I'm interested ultimately as to whether this actually adds
to revenue, adds to future profitability for a business when
they're undercutting on a price perspective significantly, open a eyes.
Speaker 11 (17:04):
Offering absolutely, and then you know, the cost of all
of this AI integrating it into all the different programs
that they will have, all the different offerings that they'll have,
is still going to continue to increase, and we saw
that with the most recent quarter and their increase in
(17:24):
capital spending for A twenty twenty four. So we'll have
to see how this really shapes up from a financial perspective,
both on the top line side, from a revenue perspective,
as well as just the overall impact to earnings.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Kuren mentioned something really interesting, which is hardware's kind of
back and Meta and the ray bands is coming up
every week on the show. If you're an investor in
a portfolio manager, do you sit your desk in the
morning and go, you know what, I've got to get
the research desk on this hardware thing.
Speaker 6 (17:57):
On the hardware use case of AI.
Speaker 11 (18:00):
I'm not sure if I'm cool enough to you know,
you get all of the hardware, whether it's Google Glass
or metas Arabians. But you know, I think everybody's looking
for that next killer sort of technology, whether it's hardware
or software, and you know, that's the portion that I
think everybody's still looking for when it comes to generative AI.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Also, I think many forget that there is a weight
on Google's shoulders here. They cannot roll out products in
quite the same fast pace as a more startup version
of a generative AI bid is at the moment because
they've got billions of users and.
Speaker 5 (18:40):
Already we've seen them rush.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Many would say the image generation side of the equation
and look at the well, the backlash they got for
that with Gemini.
Speaker 5 (18:48):
How much are you.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Frustrated though, by the fact that they're talking up a
lot of things that then sort of leave for our
imagination as and when they're going to be in our hands.
Speaker 11 (18:57):
You know, it is a level of frustration when it
comes to the overall communication from Google. I think they
are in a rush because they're in a position to
sort of protect what they have and the pole position
that they're in regarding search.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
So, you know, we'll.
Speaker 11 (19:15):
See if they've kind of been able to refine some
of that going forward. I think the most recent Google
Io yesterday really showed that they were at least able
to refine it from last year, and so we'll see
if that continues next year.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yako Yoshioka, portfolio manager at Welfare Enhancement Group, I think
you are cool enough come back on the show.
Speaker 6 (19:36):
Bring you Meta ray bands with you. Thank you?
Speaker 4 (19:38):
All right, We'll watching shares of Sony as we had
to break investor friendly policies coming out overnight, authorization of
a buyback plan that's been universally around the world. Something
investors have cheered stock at one point nine percent overnight.
Speaker 6 (19:54):
This is Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
It's time for talking tech and first up, the Yemeni
government says they're holding back repairs on a key internet
cable that's been damaged in the Red Sea.
Speaker 6 (20:18):
This comes as the.
Speaker 4 (20:19):
Government conducts an investigation into the cable owner's alleged ties
to Huthi militia. The cable operators, Telly Yemen, controlled much
of the damaged cables that connect Europe to Southeast Asia.
The Yemeni government has notified twenty Global Group members of
the probe into Tell Yemen's supposed associations with that group.
Plus Alphabet's YouTube has blocked videos of a Hong Kong
(20:42):
protest song in the city, just days after a local
court approved the injunction. Google's video Network said it will
follow the court's ruling and block thirty two versions of
the video titled Glory to Hong Kong. While existing laws
already punish people for playing the song on charges of sedition,
the Chinese government has sought to erase it from all platforms,
(21:03):
and PC maker russree Pie says it's considering an IPO
in London, in what would be the first sizable.
Speaker 6 (21:08):
Listing for the city since February.
Speaker 4 (21:10):
The company says it intends to publish a registration dock
with the London Stock Exchange, but did not disclose how
much it plans to raise CARROC.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Meanwhile, let's just shift our attention towards well a key
founder Andreill founder Palmer Lucky about how his AI and
autonomous systems are actually changing on the battlefield. We've been
speaking to him, not only here on the show just
last week, but Bloomberg Original's host Emily Chang caught up
with him to discuss his mission to tackle legacy defense
contractors and the challenges of scaling a defense teching in Nicorn.
Speaker 5 (21:40):
Just take a listen.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Right now. He Androl's very much in a high growth stage.
We've done a lot of things that I'm very, very
proud of but I'm very aware of the fact that
we are not a profitable business. We are living on
borrowed time, and so it's hard for me to come
and feel like I've made it when I know that
anyone can raise money from vcs, buy a really big
(22:04):
office and feel a full of people. The question is
are those people building the right things and will those
things pay off?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
You can catch more of that conversation on the circuit
with them any chang tonight six pm ET on Bloomberg
Television or go stream it at eight pm.
Speaker 5 (22:19):
On Bloomberg Originals from New York.
Speaker 3 (22:21):
From San Francisco, It's the Bloomberg Technology.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. Ed love Low in San Francisco.
Speaker 5 (22:36):
And I Hied in New York.
Speaker 3 (22:36):
Let's get you a quick check on these markets, because
we are at record highs votes and that is because
the macro picture is one of inflation, somewhat calling the
CPI print was what the market wanted to see and
we're likely to see therefore record highs. The close for
at the moment, then ask that one hundred the NASGAC
and indeed the S and P five hundred global benchmarks
at record highs two the sci Or World Country World
Index up nine tenths.
Speaker 5 (22:57):
Of a percent and a new record.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
And I'm looking at bitcoin, all risk assets doing well
in the idea that the Fed might actually cut this year,
that being factored back in by the market, and we're
up more than five percent on bitcoin as the dollar
goes lower.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
And move on to some of the individual movers.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Well, A key player that's helping the benchmarks from their
key points perspective is in video. We're up more than
three percent. Helps when you're worth more than two three
trillion dollars. But it's also notable that we're actually gaking
some thirty F filings this morning and a lot of
more people actually upping their stakes in in video. Remember
their earnings come out next week Monday. Dot Com you
Sean and on this ed on the call. It's a
small company, but it's a big move. So we used
(23:32):
to highlight up more than twenty percent. This is about
building APIs for work projects, in particular software that's doing well.
It would seem from a demand perspective at the moment
and Telecometalia.
Speaker 5 (23:41):
Maybe just maybe we're going to be bought.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
By KKR they're putting in their twenty two billion euro bid.
They're trying to get the EU on board with this.
This is all about sort of the phone network ultimate
of Telecometalia. So at the close, we're up more than
two percent over there in Europe for this particular player.
Speaker 5 (23:56):
But what are you looking at?
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Ed A big story that broke pretty late yesterday, and
that is open ai chief scientist and co founder Ilia
Sutskiva is leaving the artificial intelligence company, a departure that
basically ends months of speculation in Silicon Valley about the
future of who is a top AI researcher, someone that
played a key role in the brief ouster of Sam
(24:19):
Outman last year joining us More is Bloomberg, Serene Gafari Scherene. Okay,
this is complicated because Ilia was at the center of
that mad weekend that you and I worked for forty
eight hours straight to work out what.
Speaker 6 (24:32):
Was going on.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
But he's one of the original founder's, former board member
of open ai, and he's saying I'm leaving the company.
I guess do we know why? Specifically he's leaving open ai.
Speaker 13 (24:46):
So he didn't say much about exactly why he's leaving.
But you know, we know that basically since the brief
ouster of Sam Maltman, Ilia Satskuber, who was once you know,
a very.
Speaker 14 (25:00):
Common figure in the office, has not been.
Speaker 15 (25:02):
Seen as much.
Speaker 14 (25:03):
There is a lot of speculation, rumors about well, what's
going to happen with Ilia?
Speaker 15 (25:07):
Is he going to leave the company?
Speaker 14 (25:09):
And so, you know, internally, I think it wasn't so
much of a big surprise to many people that eventually
Ilia would leave. Now what he's going to do next,
he said, going to he has a new project and
he'll share details in due time.
Speaker 15 (25:21):
So we're all waiting to see.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
Ultimately this comes down what was thought was a difference
in opinion of the ultimate way you build generative artificial
intelligence and artificial general intelligence for the good of humanity.
Is that what's underlying here a philosophical philosophical difference, or
ultimately that there's other things that need to be built
(25:46):
at this moment of great exuberance around the technology.
Speaker 14 (25:49):
You know, I think it's really hard to say. What
we do know is that Ilia Setskiv is someone who
was working at these issues kind of at the intersection
right of ethics and AI. He co led the super
Alignment Team is what they call it there, which is
all about how to make sure that AI is aligned
with human values. So you know, of course, this is
someone who's interested in the social implications of the technology
(26:10):
that he's building. Now, whether ultimately his decision to leave
is just because he'd rather do something else or because
he may have some deeper conflicts that are unsettled with
the company, I think is still very much a big question.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
And also others leaving in his wake will have more
to report out throughout the day. I'm sure Blueberg's Sharan
KAfari thank you for breaking it down on that key
departure coming from open AI. Now, let's just stick with
artificial intelligence and turn to the growing legal backlash against
companies as they experience rapid growth. Now, also how you
(26:43):
can harness generator AI in the legal sphere too. We
can have both of these conversations at the same time
with Gila Hyatt, CTO, co founder of Darrowner. It's an
aipower legal intelligence platform back by y Combinator.
Speaker 5 (26:55):
Your platform is used by some of the top US
law firms. It connects with a three thousand gators with
new cases.
Speaker 3 (27:02):
Basically, you're facilitating over ten million dollars in litigation HeLa
as if lawyers weren't busy enough, you're finding ways in
which there can be well group lawsuits. Broad interesting at
the moment that we've just seen one versus the US
government on the behalf of TikTok happening great.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
First of all, it's great to be here, and I
also want to say about justice intelligence in general. So
the question regarding where their lawyers are busy enough. Our
mission is to identify impactful cases that have a lot
of both social and an legal impact around issues that
(27:40):
are basically harming consumers, businesses, and employees. We're mostly focused
around privacy issues, consumer protection, climate, environmental protection, which is
super super important, and we're harnessing AI to do.
Speaker 15 (27:56):
So to identify socially impactful.
Speaker 6 (28:01):
Data. How does the AI technology work?
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, So we are in a very interesting intersection between
looking at legal data and event data, which is pretty
much anything that can happen on social media or events
happening online. And the way we do so is we
look at tremendous amounts of legal data, which are cases,
case law, regulations, new laws are coming in and understanding
(28:28):
what are the fact patterns that the case law is
talking about.
Speaker 15 (28:31):
And how those events take action on everyday life.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
Is this underpinned by specific LLM or someone else's AI
model or is it something you built yourself.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Yeah, So the process is heavily infused in LMS, which
is agnostic to what kind of LLMS that we're using,
because it's a multi process. It's a multi step process
which takes into consideration, ingesting the data, understanding what it is,
and basically extracting the type of legal story or the
legal phenomena that we're taking into action. So a lot
(29:05):
of people assume that legalies is basically a different dialect
of English, and they're correct to do so.
Speaker 15 (29:10):
And this is the kind of intersection that we're looking at.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Where it's.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
Yeah, sorry, I mean to interrupt, Guila. I I suffered
three three years of law school and legal went in
one air and out the other.
Speaker 6 (29:23):
Please continue your answeert Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
And and as a non lawyer myself, just as a
tech person, I am fascinated by by what kind of
how can we align this type of language and make
it usable for for consumers and for the people where
often most of the legal violations that happened to them,
they can happen pretty much in every kind of type
of service or or or product or business that you're
(29:47):
interacting with, And there is a constant fight over our attention.
Speaker 15 (29:51):
Yeah, and this is and and this is what we're
trying and trying to.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Build where we were consumers don't have to be worried
about their rights being vito later or even the quality
of air around them is deteriorating because there's not enough
focus and not enough there's not enough power to the
consumer to understand.
Speaker 15 (30:10):
And to ingest that amount of data.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
And on the other side, lawyers, the lawyers are only
now starting to develop the intelligence gathering skills that are
required in order trying to stand the full picture supported
by facts and generally create more impactful cases.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yes, we've already heard some of the issues of hallucination
when it comes to looking back at previous contracts, previous
cases via the use of generative AI and sometimes and
making them up. But Gila, I'm also interested that I
can't imagine there's too many lawyers out there, too many
companies out there upset that their contracts are.
Speaker 5 (30:45):
Being used as training data.
Speaker 3 (30:46):
There's an awful lot of artists out there right now,
an awful lot of creatives out there right now who
worried about their own creations being used in large language models.
How much you're seeing that as an area you're waiting into.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
So I think the discourse around AI and the concept
of originality and the owners of the content is a
hot topic and we should discuss it from multiple angles
in a way that we want to keep encouraging originality
and humanity and content creation around that so people will
keep innovating rather than just replicating replicating content.
Speaker 15 (31:22):
That is doesn't have much impact.
Speaker 1 (31:25):
I think that also from from the legal perspective, a
lot of high margin task work, just like contracts, will
be scarce and the focus will have to shift to
different kinds of tasks that require the core human impact
and the core human.
Speaker 15 (31:44):
Seed that is required to create such a task.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
So I think in the next in upcoming years, we're
going to see maybe different ways to compensate content creators
and having a more more clear and transparent way of
how this data is going to be used in terms
of hallucination. How we solved it at Darrow is that
first of all, we are validating we're being the content
(32:07):
that we're creating, because we are very, very focused on
creating a trustworthy insight based on our sources, and also
we are also providing the sources for our clients to
understand how we got to this decision. So we're not
talking for place decision ranking at its core rather than
empower empower our client to understand how we got to
(32:29):
this conclusion.
Speaker 4 (32:32):
Heila Hiatt, CEO and co founder Darrow and Darrow named
after Clarence Darrow, the nineteenth century lawyer from the Midwest
who represented trade unions in all those whole profile cases.
Speaker 6 (32:43):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (32:44):
Now coming up, we're going to be joined by the
CEO of Chime talking a little bit about fintech and
discuss the company's new offering.
Speaker 6 (32:49):
More details than that next carot.
Speaker 3 (32:51):
Yeah. Meanwhile, I just want to shine a light on
some Lucashaw reporting ed because Netflix apparently going after some
key NFL game around the Christmas time.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Once again there's foray into live events. This time live
sports is an interesting take.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
We're just down five ten percent interestingly on Netflix on
the day, but they're likely to air two NFL games
this Christmas Day and its largest push into live events.
Speaker 16 (33:15):
That's something of their technology.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
Chime the fintech, known for its fee free banking services,
is now offering consumers the option of accessing as much
as five hundred dollars of their paycheck before they arrive.
Let's get more on this with Chime CEO Chris Britt,
who joins me here in San Francisco. So it's interesting
because you're offering the option to do this for free
or if you want it instantly, two dollars, and you'd
(33:52):
imagine that those that take up the offer would veer
to the free side.
Speaker 6 (33:58):
Maybe not. What's in it for you, guys?
Speaker 17 (34:01):
Well, Chime is all about helping everyday people unlock financial progress.
Speaker 8 (34:05):
We do that with a fee free checking.
Speaker 17 (34:07):
Account and a host of services that help people with
short term liquidity and credit building. And what's in it
for us with this new service called my pay is
that consumers would sign up for Chime get direct deposit
and then, you know, if you think about the way
payroll works in America, most people will get paid every
two weeks, and so with this service, now any point
(34:28):
along that journey towards your next paycheck, you can access
a portion of your paycheck up to five hundred dollars.
So what's in it for us is that we really
want to get people to sign up and use Chime
as their primary bank account. This is just another reason
why people would.
Speaker 4 (34:42):
Bring them into a broader sort of ecosystem. Things are
difficult right now to read on the consumer. So if
you think about those that might be inclined to take
advantage of my pay they may also be under financial duress. Right,
So is there a technology in place that you guys
use for risk as esment for example, if somebody's eligible
(35:02):
to do.
Speaker 17 (35:02):
This, oh for sure, and I couldn't agree more. You know,
it's something like sixty percent of Americans live paycheck to paycheck,
so that doesn't mean everyone's under financial duress. But usually
around the next time that your paycheck is coming to
your account, you probably have a low balance situation. That's
where banks oftentimes take advantage of consumers.
Speaker 8 (35:21):
So for us, giving people access to.
Speaker 17 (35:25):
Their payroll at an earlier clip is just a huge
unlock for them and is extremely helpful with them getting,
you know, getting through the next paycheck.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
It's a new area of banking services that has been
popular elsewhere. Chris And has sort of fallen into a
legal gray area from a consumer protection perspective. How are
you working with consumer rights screups, how are you working
with government to.
Speaker 5 (35:49):
Ensure that you are above board at all times?
Speaker 8 (35:52):
That's a great point.
Speaker 17 (35:53):
Actually, this this whole category, it's referred to as Earned
Wage access or EWA.
Speaker 8 (35:59):
It's an emerging area.
Speaker 17 (36:00):
There's a number of companies that have popped up, and
the regulation in the area is still still sort of
a work in progress. So we are sort of monitoring
that closely. We are in regular contact with regulators. But
we've actually launched this product not as an EWA product,
but actually as a credit product, and we've done it
in coordination with our bank partners. So the legal construct
(36:22):
for a credit product is fully articulated, and we've been
able to design a product that complies with all the
rules and regulations the same way that we do with
all of our products at Chime.
Speaker 3 (36:33):
Something else that is still work in progress is potentially
you becoming a public company.
Speaker 15 (36:37):
Now.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
You said back into some of the company was is
IPO ready as it can be? And you're assessing how
the markets look for the first half of twenty twenty four,
So Chris, how do they look?
Speaker 5 (36:46):
Are you coming soon?
Speaker 17 (36:48):
The I think the market's actually looked pretty good, and
the business looks pretty good.
Speaker 9 (36:52):
You know.
Speaker 17 (36:52):
We ended Q four of last year is the number
one most downloaded banking app in America. We have over
million monthly transacting actives in the account and using our
Chime accounts, and the majority of our members are using
us as a primary direct deposit and every day spending cards.
(37:14):
So the business is performing extremely well. We actually had
a profitable Q one. We don't have IPO plans to
announce in this meeting today, but I would say that
an IPO is not too far out on the horizon,
probably not twenty four, but definitely something that we're thinking
a lot about.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
So Chime's been really interesting to me.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
Some of your team know that they're here with us,
but you had this twenty five billion dollar valuation in
twenty twenty one, and the valuations come down. That's not
unique for your story. Are you kind of happy about that?
We've seen down rounds or low evaluations set you up
quite well for whatever future you decide well.
Speaker 17 (37:52):
Valuations are always a moment in time, right, and they
always fluctuate to some extent. We haven't done a new
financing since twenty twenty one, so it's clear, you know.
Speaker 6 (38:00):
What the market reported valuation to be fat right.
Speaker 8 (38:03):
You know, we don't think too much about that.
Speaker 17 (38:06):
We're sort of heads down, just focused on executing and
not thinking too much about a specific valuation. But I
do think that the overall reset in the fintech category
has been a great opportunity for us.
Speaker 8 (38:16):
Well, some companies are trying to.
Speaker 17 (38:18):
You know, figure out where they might land or you know,
merger opportunities or needing to raise money.
Speaker 8 (38:23):
We're extremely well capitalized.
Speaker 17 (38:24):
We have close to a billion dollars of cash on
the balance sheet, so we've been able to work not
over but close to a billion dollars of cash.
Speaker 8 (38:31):
So we've been able to stay.
Speaker 17 (38:32):
Aggressive and grow market share in a period of you know,
disruption for the category, and I think that's been good
for us as a market leader.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Chime see, Chris Breys. Just great to have you back
in the studio here in San Francisco. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
Talk art for a moment because Christy has just managed
to pull off a one hundred and fifteen million dollar
sale despite a cyber attack. It's an apparent hack that
actually hobbled the company's website in the days leading up
to the all important May sales, and Christy's website is
actually still redirecting to a temporary site as a sale began,
and prompting questions around whether or not this New York
(39:12):
auction could would happen at all, But around the company's
handling the private client confidential information, there were some concerns.
Speaker 5 (39:19):
Now, a spokesperson told Bloomberg.
Speaker 3 (39:21):
That Christie's continues to work with an additional team of
technology experts.
Speaker 5 (39:25):
We're determining the scope and the impact of this incident.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
Ed okay, and who better to talk about cybersecurity than
Steve Stone, head of Rubrics zero Labs, which recently put
out its latest report called the State of Data Security
Measuring Your Data Risks. And I take this very seriously, Steve,
because so many CSOs, CISOs CIOs watched this program, and
(39:51):
the conclusion of the report of those you surveyed is
that almost all of them are suffering direct emotional psychological
in from cyber attacks.
Speaker 6 (40:01):
I found that to be astonishing.
Speaker 9 (40:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 18 (40:03):
Well, first, thank you for having me. I'm really excited
to be here and excited to engage their audience. And
I think the emotional impact was one of the things
that really jumped out at us, and I think it
makes sense.
Speaker 6 (40:12):
What are we talking about here, emotional impacts. So I
think there's a few things.
Speaker 18 (40:15):
I think the first is the vast majority of more
than sixteen hundred senior leaders both in IT and security
we engaged with, you know, more than ninety percent of
them reported having an emotional or psychological impact that ranged
from losing sleep, fear over losing their job, or fear
of their teams losing trust in them. And so we
see that consistently year over year, and I think it
(40:36):
really speaks to how this affects us as individuals and
not just as businesses.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Let's talk about how it affects businesses, to though, Steve,
and how these cso CIOs are trying to get a
little bit of bed, better sleep by putting precautions in place.
Speaker 6 (40:52):
So I think that's the great question. That's the endpoint.
Speaker 18 (40:55):
We can talk about the problems all day long, but
the real goal is reducing risk. And as we did
this research, a few things jumped out at us that
really impact that risk reduction and change that dynamic. First,
organizations have to be prepared for a contested recovery. You
see it in the news all the time. We've seen
it for years, really consistent touch point. You've got to
(41:15):
recover your data. You have to be resilient, and the
attackers know that and they'll do their best to stop it.
And the second part is when we look at this
from a data perspective, you have to involve a high
number of teams. This is not a seesoll problem, this
is not a CIO problem.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
This is everyone's problem.
Speaker 4 (41:32):
State very quickly, we're to stand the show there must
be a growing threat. Therefore what are they facing from
the other side of the table.
Speaker 18 (41:39):
I think the growing threat comes down to we're creating
a risk surface area that we're not paying attention to,
and that comes down to sensitive data.
Speaker 6 (41:46):
So if we look at healthcare, healthcare is in the news.
Speaker 18 (41:49):
There's not a unique threat to healthcare, but we see
outsized impacts of ransomwa against healthcare. Four hundred percent more
sensitive data is impacted in a healthcare intrusion than in
other industries. And that's not because it's different. It's not
because the threats are novel. It comes down to sensitive data.
And so when we look at how we change this,
we've got to start with where those impacts actually are.
Speaker 3 (42:11):
Very briefly, Steve, is it many the US where you're
seeing the anxiety?
Speaker 5 (42:14):
Is this global phenomenon.
Speaker 6 (42:16):
We're seeing it globally.
Speaker 18 (42:17):
There are really consistent trends across all regions, all industries
from a threat perspective, where we see the changes in
impacts really come down to industry unique aspects.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
Steve Stone taking us through the industries implicated, the individuals implicated.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
We thank you so much for some of.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
The tactics to deploy Steve Stone's head of Rubric Zero
Labs on.
Speaker 5 (42:37):
All things cyber.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Meanwhile, that's all things done on this addition of Blue
med technology.
Speaker 7 (42:42):
ED.
Speaker 6 (42:42):
I know I should be paying attention.
Speaker 4 (42:43):
I am, but during that conversation a load of CIOs
and CSO has added me on LinkedIn, so we know
they're watching. And if you have any reaction to Seeve,
get in touch with us or recap the conversation in
the show ED with your social I don't get distracted.
Speaker 6 (42:55):
This is on the ground reporting.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
Check out the podcast recap that conversation with Steve and
all the others, particularly with Frank McCourt Jr. And his
new bid for TikTok's US assets. You know where to
find the pod. So many of you listening to us
on your way to work, on your way home, and
your lunch break, all around the world, and we really
appreciate it. From SF and New York City, this is
Bloombo technology
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.