October 29, 2025 • 16 mins
Land is more than just a place to build a house, commercial building or farm. Real assets can be monetized through Mineral and gas rights, solar and wind, recreation, even AI.
Brandon Zick is Chief Investment Officer of Ceres Farmland Fund (now part of Wisdom Tree); they own and manage about $2 billion in agricultural land assets.
Each week, “At the Money” discusses an important topic in money management. From portfolio construction to taxes and cutting down on fees, join Barry Ritholtz to learn the best ways to put your money to work.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Here's to the farmer,
the plants, the funerals, and the spring, the turn from
the green to that harvest honey.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hold on all the banker downtown with the guide in
mon Steed, with handshake the money.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Have you ever thought about what makes land valuable? It's
much more than just a place to build a house
or commercial building or place a farm. Real assets have
become increasingly popular, accessed through alternatives like private equity funds.
I'm Barry ritholtzs and on today's edition of At the Money,
(00:44):
I'm going to discuss alternative land rights investing. To help
us unpack all of this and what it might mean
for your portfolio. Let's bring in Brandon Zick. He's the
chief investment officer at Sarah's Farmland Fund, managing about two
billion dollars in AG assets. Saras not only looks at farmland,
(01:05):
but a slew of additional rights that can help monetize dirt,
as Brandon likes to say. Sarah's was recently purchased by
Wisdom Tree Investing and full disclosure, I'm also an investor
in Sarah's through my own personal investing So, Brandon, you've
been investing in and around farmland for decades. You grew
(01:26):
up on a farm. What makes this kind of land
a compelling real asset?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, thanks, Barry. I think when you look at farmland,
one of the things that's so interesting is just what
are the optionality buckets that come with land. So when
we buy farms, generally we're thinking of this is going
to be a farm for the long term. But when
you own the real estate, when you own the dirt,
you have a lot of optionality. Starting with mineral rights.
(01:54):
That's something that on the family farm I grew up
at Northeastern Pennsylvania, no one knew what Marcella a shale was.
But over time there's been a tremendous amount of value
created through those mineral rights, well above the farmland value.
And when you think about other things that when you
buy a farm, in many cases there's timber on the
property that could be harvested selectively over time. There are
(02:17):
you know, opportunities to lease outland for hunting and other
sorts of recreation to generate revenue. And then you start
thinking about other optionality that can come to.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Well, before we go to other optionality, let's spend the
little time with each of those. So when you say
mineral rights and you're referring to Marcella shale, which is
natural gas made accessible by fracking, you're not giving up
the farm. Because of the fracking technology, those natural gas
(02:47):
companies and oil companies can access that from a single
point in the corner of the farm without disrupting the
farm land. And they could go literally miles down to
access how signa in how valuable are those natural gas leases?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it depends on the area specifically. But yeah,
the great thing is that you're not strip mining a property.
To your point, you can access it from a corner
of the property or even lease it without any service
intrusion on your property. They have to access it from
a neighbor's property who would allow that. And then in
the Marcella's shale region, you had land that probably would
have transacted almost any acre for fifteen hundred to two
(03:26):
thousand dollars an acre and then it was generating four
or five thousand dollars per acre and revenue per year.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Wow, so it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So that's completely changed. So even with within our portfolio,
you don't see any farms purchased in Pennsylvania because of
the Marcellus and Utica shale, there's so much cash flowing
around that land just isn't available at an attractive price
from a farmland investment.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Let me ask you a naive question about this. How
do I, as a farmer maintain my mineral rights if
the adjacent farm is sucking the natural gas out of
the ground, doesn't mind natural gas then flow into that vacuum.
How do you manage around that?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, so they try to put them together into units
so that that doesn't happen. And there are rules around
what you can and can't do, especially with these as
opposed to vertical wells that would be on one property,
and depending on where it was on the property, you
might actually be extracting from the neighbors without paying them.
With these horizontal wells to go underneath, there are requirements
that you have to be paid. You do see an
(04:29):
interesting dynamic in Pennsylvania and New York where it's not
allowed in New York State, but if you own a
farm on the Pennsylvania side of the highway there that
you're definitely generating a lot of revenue. And there could
be an argument that maybe some of that's coming from
across the way, but that's where regulation probably doesn't really
meet up with the reality.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So let's talk about some other sorts of leases that
farmland can generate revenue from. You mentioned hunting. What do
you put up a gate and charge people on the
way in? How do you charge fees for hunters and
other recreational users if you own a couple hundred or
a couple of thousand acres of prime land?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, so usually typically it's in the off season when
the crops are off the field. But hunting in the
Northeast and the Midwest is something that I didn't grow
up doing, but you know, it's a way of life
for a lot of people. And everyone wants to have
a specific place that they can go to to hunt,
their own land, a private place to hunt. And if
you don't own land, that comes through the rental market,
and there is a robust rental market. When you drive
(05:30):
through rural areas, you'll see posted signs on trees saying
this is like you're not allowed no trespassing. Typically it's
landowners or hunters who are paying for those rights who
are posting that. And yeah, we go through third parties
that will require insurance. There's a lease being paid, and
once someone's paying and paying for the insurance, they're enforcing
(05:52):
the boundaries such that we don't have to which is great.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Let's talk about other leases renewable energy. I know you
guys are big with wind turbines. The President may not
love those, but farmers sure hacks seem to like it.
What are the economics of putting up a wind turbine
on a farm?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So wind has been around now for quite a while.
You've seen thirty years worth of wind farm construction, and
it's very incremental in nature to the farm, but it
could add anywhere from twenty to forty or fifty basis
points of income depending on the property, which and it
takes up a very small footprint.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So you're still farming. You just have a couple of
big turbines in the corner.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's exactly true. So you know, I think when people
started doing it, they thought, well, this is essentially free
money as long as you're fine with looking at wind turbines,
which some people like, some people don't. But it was
incremental and it was meaningful enough to farmers because they
were still farming those properties. The thought process around that
has changed a little bit. They're much more difficult to
(06:51):
permit now because not only do they take up a
huge footprint, A large wind farm could take up a
very large footprint, so anywhere from twenty to thirty thousand acres.
There's a lot of neighbors involved there, and there's also
people who fight those wind farms on behalf of migratory birds.
So I think they're much more difficult to permit now.
(07:12):
What you tend to see on the solar side, which
is significantly different, is much higher impact on the land,
So they're taking up the majority of the footprint, so
you're not continuing the farm, so the revenue has to
be not just incremental, has to replace the farm income
and be transformational. So what you tend to see on
the solar side is revenue that could be anywhere from
(07:33):
three to five times the total return of farmland plus wind,
so it's much more meaningful, and you can also do
it on a much smaller footprint. So whereas you might
need those twenty or thirty thousand acres for wind for solar,
you can do it on fifteen hundred to twenty five
hundred acres, so many fewer neighbors, maybe just one landowner.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Huh really really interesting? Another naive question migratory birds and
wind turbines. How hard would it be to embed you're
generating electricity, to embed some form of light, even something
in a range that's specific to birds that maybe doesn't
(08:12):
disturb humans or planes, or even just put a little
high frequency sound c you know, you're spinning these blades
through the air. Should be interested easy to generate some
sort of noise, and I know there are lots of
frequencies that don't disturb humans. The dogs aren't gonna like it.
But is that really that difficult of a problem to solve.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It seems like it hasn't been solved yet, so someone
might be on it. But this could be an idea
for you.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's my gift to the wind farming and land owning community.
Just put a couple of reflectors up on the edge
of the blades and the birds will be able to
be able to see it. So we've talked about solar,
we've talked about winds. What about projects like biogas? Is
that a significant source of potential revenue.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
As a landowner? Maybe not as much, but we have
farm tenants that own dairy farms that they have anaerobic
digestors that are great for them. They can use some
of the waste product from the cows and turn it
into green energy, so that's and sell it back into
the grid. So that's something we've seen a lot of
in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, New York State. And
(09:26):
I think that'll continue to grow because it seems like
the dairy industry is continuing to grow. More cows means
more opportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And this is a very heavy protein cycle of how
people are consuming food, less sugar and carbs, a whole
lot more protein, or at least that's what it seems like.
You mentioned timber. I know that there's a very specific
form of agricultural husbandry with harvesting trees, planting. It's a
(09:57):
very long term process. You're thinking in cycles of ten, fifteen,
twenty years. How significant is timber.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So, timber is a huge asset class, specifically you know
in parts of Canada, northern Michigan and then in the southeast.
It's huge in terms of hardwoods and pulp woods that's
been in an institutional asset class or investment class for
a long time now. And you tend to see these
really large owners owning hundreds and hundreds of thousands of
(10:28):
acres selling to those very large end users. So that
is a little bit of a different beast, and it's
a very well developed investment structure where you tend to
see maybe a little more nuances around some of the
very high value hardwoods, so black walnuts and things like that.
But that's something that I don't think is really scalable
(10:48):
the way that some of the large timber investments currently are.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
What about various conservation programs and things like carbon credits,
how significant are those?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, So, I mean there was a lot of noise
around carbon sea questration and credits associated with that maybe
two or three years ago, and we took a hard
look at it because we own so much real estate
and the idea of regenerative ag being great for the
land and being able to benefit from that with a
payment cycle was very interesting to us. What we found
(11:20):
was the strings attached, and in many cases farmers were
already doing a lot of these practices. The people that
we worked with, they were already using cover crops. The
question is can you get paid for that in a
way that doesn't attach strings that jeopardize things later on.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What are cover crops.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Cover crops would be so once your crop is harvested,
you're planting a second crop there to prevent erosion, to
maintain nutrients in the soil. So winter wheat. When people
plant wheat, generally that is a cover crop that they're
deciding in the spring. Did it winter over well enough
that they're going to harvest it or are they going
to just leave it there and then eventually kill it
(11:59):
and plant another crop into it. But it helps prevent erosion.
Soil erosion helps maintain nutrients and moisture in the soil.
So cover cropping is a great form of regenerative egg
or sustainable agriculture that's been around for a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And if they don't harvest it. And we talked to
earlier about some of the shows I watched, like Clarkson's
Farm and Harry's Farm, they just essentially run the combine
through a ShredIt and then.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, they can till it under put it right in there, and.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
That becomes a resource for the next crop.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, exactly, more nutrients in the soil. So when we
looked at those carbon credits, we thought, well, the land
is the only means of production for generating this credit,
the landowner and the farmer should probably get a bigger
portion of the credit than the person who's transacting, and
in a typical Wall street where that's not how it works.
So we have not been a big mover on the
(12:53):
carbon sequestration side because we don't think it's a real
benefit to landowners financially. Now maybe from an agronomy standpoint,
but if they're doing it anyway, you don't need to
sign a contract. So as we think about that, you know,
conservation in terms of payments, you need a special structure
to really benefit from that. There are folks that sell
conservation easements. That's not something we do, but there is
(13:16):
a group around that. One of the things that we've
taken a harder look at is wetlands banking because when
there's development going on, specifically in the Midwest, a lot
of industrial development, Departments of transportation, as they expand highways,
there's always wetlands to mitigate. So there are a number
of developed markets for creating a wetlands bank and then
(13:38):
selling credits into that for development, and that's something we've
been taking a hard look at. In states like Michigan,
and Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Huh. Really interesting. Let's talk about the use case for farmland.
That is the single biggest shocker to me. Artificial intelligence.
What's going on with these big data centers that seem
to be popping up everywhere.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, I mean they seem to really be targeting areas
with great power resources and capacity on the grid on
the electric side, natural gas lines or natural gas fired
power plants close by, fiber optic networks that are close by,
and then access to water for cooling, whether it's groundwater
or otherwise. And it seems like in the Midwest there's
(14:21):
been a huge push into this. So the old rust
belt is done and there's new manufacturing coming in, and
data centers seem to be the highest value that's being built.
And it's being built at scale by a number of
different players out there now. And it just seems as
though land that you might have said ten years ago,
well that was not the best land because it has
(14:42):
a transmission line running through it. Now that's like being
right next to the exit on the interstate. It's a
huge bonus for that land.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And when you say big players, I'm thinking Microsoft, Google, Amazon,
who are the big players in this space?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, those are the groups as well as meta that
they have a seems like a real thirst for these
single user data centers, and they tend to target the places.
Those groups tend to target the places that are the
most attractive, and they're the most aggressive and trying to
put them under contract. Even where we're based in South Bend, Indiana,
there's two very large data center projects going on now,
(15:16):
one by Amazon one by Microsoft that are transforming the area,
and I don't think they'll be the last ones.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So there are a variety of different land use options
that can either generate revenue or drive appreciation. Did I
forget any do we miss anything? Those are a lot
of different things.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, those are the big ones. And traditional manufacturing distribution centers.
These are things that have been happening at least in
the Midwest now for generations and it just continues so
the more that the economy continues to grow. That's one
area where maybe farmland is a little more levered to
the economy for some of these non farm uses because
of that, and these tend to be multiples of anywhere
(15:56):
from five to ten to twenty x farmland value, so
it can be very meaningful in the market.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So to wrap up, there are a number of things
that make land valuable. Sure, it's a place to build
a house or a commercial building, or to farm to
grow crops, but real assets have become increasingly valuable due
to things like water rights, solar winds, mineral rights, and
now artificial intelligence data centers. It's a fascinating development and
(16:28):
they ain't making any more land, so this is likely
to keep staying popular in the future. I'm Barry Ritolts.
You've been listening to At the Money on Bloomberg Radio
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Farmable
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. Here's to the farmer,
the plants, the funerals, and the spring, the turn from
the green to that harvest honey.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Hold on all the banker downtown with the guide in
mon Steed, with handshake the money.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Have you ever thought about what makes land valuable? It's
much more than just a place to build a house
or commercial building or place a farm. Real assets have
become increasingly popular, accessed through alternatives like private equity funds.
I'm Barry ritholtzs and on today's edition of At the Money,
(00:44):
I'm going to discuss alternative land rights investing. To help
us unpack all of this and what it might mean
for your portfolio. Let's bring in Brandon Zick. He's the
chief investment officer at Sarah's Farmland Fund, managing about two
billion dollars in AG assets. Saras not only looks at farmland,
(01:05):
but a slew of additional rights that can help monetize dirt,
as Brandon likes to say. Sarah's was recently purchased by
Wisdom Tree Investing and full disclosure, I'm also an investor
in Sarah's through my own personal investing So, Brandon, you've
been investing in and around farmland for decades. You grew
(01:26):
up on a farm. What makes this kind of land
a compelling real asset?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
Well, thanks, Barry. I think when you look at farmland,
one of the things that's so interesting is just what
are the optionality buckets that come with land. So when
we buy farms, generally we're thinking of this is going
to be a farm for the long term. But when
you own the real estate, when you own the dirt,
you have a lot of optionality. Starting with mineral rights.
(01:54):
That's something that on the family farm I grew up
at Northeastern Pennsylvania, no one knew what Marcella a shale was.
But over time there's been a tremendous amount of value
created through those mineral rights, well above the farmland value.
And when you think about other things that when you
buy a farm, in many cases there's timber on the
property that could be harvested selectively over time. There are
(02:17):
you know, opportunities to lease outland for hunting and other
sorts of recreation to generate revenue. And then you start
thinking about other optionality that can come to.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Well, before we go to other optionality, let's spend the
little time with each of those. So when you say
mineral rights and you're referring to Marcella shale, which is
natural gas made accessible by fracking, you're not giving up
the farm. Because of the fracking technology, those natural gas
(02:47):
companies and oil companies can access that from a single
point in the corner of the farm without disrupting the
farm land. And they could go literally miles down to
access how signa in how valuable are those natural gas leases?
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Yeah, so it depends on the area specifically. But yeah,
the great thing is that you're not strip mining a property.
To your point, you can access it from a corner
of the property or even lease it without any service
intrusion on your property. They have to access it from
a neighbor's property who would allow that. And then in
the Marcella's shale region, you had land that probably would
have transacted almost any acre for fifteen hundred to two
(03:26):
thousand dollars an acre and then it was generating four
or five thousand dollars per acre and revenue per year.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
Wow, so it's a lot.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So that's completely changed. So even with within our portfolio,
you don't see any farms purchased in Pennsylvania because of
the Marcellus and Utica shale, there's so much cash flowing
around that land just isn't available at an attractive price
from a farmland investment.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Let me ask you a naive question about this. How
do I, as a farmer maintain my mineral rights if
the adjacent farm is sucking the natural gas out of
the ground, doesn't mind natural gas then flow into that vacuum.
How do you manage around that?
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Yeah, so they try to put them together into units
so that that doesn't happen. And there are rules around
what you can and can't do, especially with these as
opposed to vertical wells that would be on one property,
and depending on where it was on the property, you
might actually be extracting from the neighbors without paying them.
With these horizontal wells to go underneath, there are requirements
that you have to be paid. You do see an
(04:29):
interesting dynamic in Pennsylvania and New York where it's not
allowed in New York State, but if you own a
farm on the Pennsylvania side of the highway there that
you're definitely generating a lot of revenue. And there could
be an argument that maybe some of that's coming from
across the way, but that's where regulation probably doesn't really
meet up with the reality.
Speaker 1 (04:49):
So let's talk about some other sorts of leases that
farmland can generate revenue from. You mentioned hunting. What do
you put up a gate and charge people on the
way in? How do you charge fees for hunters and
other recreational users if you own a couple hundred or
a couple of thousand acres of prime land?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
Yeah, so usually typically it's in the off season when
the crops are off the field. But hunting in the
Northeast and the Midwest is something that I didn't grow
up doing, but you know, it's a way of life
for a lot of people. And everyone wants to have
a specific place that they can go to to hunt,
their own land, a private place to hunt. And if
you don't own land, that comes through the rental market,
and there is a robust rental market. When you drive
(05:30):
through rural areas, you'll see posted signs on trees saying
this is like you're not allowed no trespassing. Typically it's
landowners or hunters who are paying for those rights who
are posting that. And yeah, we go through third parties
that will require insurance. There's a lease being paid, and
once someone's paying and paying for the insurance, they're enforcing
(05:52):
the boundaries such that we don't have to which is great.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Let's talk about other leases renewable energy. I know you
guys are big with wind turbines. The President may not
love those, but farmers sure hacks seem to like it.
What are the economics of putting up a wind turbine
on a farm?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So wind has been around now for quite a while.
You've seen thirty years worth of wind farm construction, and
it's very incremental in nature to the farm, but it
could add anywhere from twenty to forty or fifty basis
points of income depending on the property, which and it
takes up a very small footprint.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
So you're still farming. You just have a couple of
big turbines in the corner.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
That's exactly true. So you know, I think when people
started doing it, they thought, well, this is essentially free
money as long as you're fine with looking at wind turbines,
which some people like, some people don't. But it was
incremental and it was meaningful enough to farmers because they
were still farming those properties. The thought process around that
has changed a little bit. They're much more difficult to
(06:51):
permit now because not only do they take up a
huge footprint, A large wind farm could take up a
very large footprint, so anywhere from twenty to thirty thousand acres.
There's a lot of neighbors involved there, and there's also
people who fight those wind farms on behalf of migratory birds.
So I think they're much more difficult to permit now.
(07:12):
What you tend to see on the solar side, which
is significantly different, is much higher impact on the land,
So they're taking up the majority of the footprint, so
you're not continuing the farm, so the revenue has to
be not just incremental, has to replace the farm income
and be transformational. So what you tend to see on
the solar side is revenue that could be anywhere from
(07:33):
three to five times the total return of farmland plus wind,
so it's much more meaningful, and you can also do
it on a much smaller footprint. So whereas you might
need those twenty or thirty thousand acres for wind for solar,
you can do it on fifteen hundred to twenty five
hundred acres, so many fewer neighbors, maybe just one landowner.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Huh really really interesting? Another naive question migratory birds and
wind turbines. How hard would it be to embed you're
generating electricity, to embed some form of light, even something
in a range that's specific to birds that maybe doesn't
(08:12):
disturb humans or planes, or even just put a little
high frequency sound c you know, you're spinning these blades
through the air. Should be interested easy to generate some
sort of noise, and I know there are lots of
frequencies that don't disturb humans. The dogs aren't gonna like it.
But is that really that difficult of a problem to solve.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It seems like it hasn't been solved yet, so someone
might be on it. But this could be an idea
for you.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
That's my gift to the wind farming and land owning community.
Just put a couple of reflectors up on the edge
of the blades and the birds will be able to
be able to see it. So we've talked about solar,
we've talked about winds. What about projects like biogas? Is
that a significant source of potential revenue.
Speaker 2 (09:03):
As a landowner? Maybe not as much, but we have
farm tenants that own dairy farms that they have anaerobic
digestors that are great for them. They can use some
of the waste product from the cows and turn it
into green energy, so that's and sell it back into
the grid. So that's something we've seen a lot of
in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan, New York State. And
(09:26):
I think that'll continue to grow because it seems like
the dairy industry is continuing to grow. More cows means
more opportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And this is a very heavy protein cycle of how
people are consuming food, less sugar and carbs, a whole
lot more protein, or at least that's what it seems like.
You mentioned timber. I know that there's a very specific
form of agricultural husbandry with harvesting trees, planting. It's a
(09:57):
very long term process. You're thinking in cycles of ten, fifteen,
twenty years. How significant is timber.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
So, timber is a huge asset class, specifically you know
in parts of Canada, northern Michigan and then in the southeast.
It's huge in terms of hardwoods and pulp woods that's
been in an institutional asset class or investment class for
a long time now. And you tend to see these
really large owners owning hundreds and hundreds of thousands of
(10:28):
acres selling to those very large end users. So that
is a little bit of a different beast, and it's
a very well developed investment structure where you tend to
see maybe a little more nuances around some of the
very high value hardwoods, so black walnuts and things like that.
But that's something that I don't think is really scalable
(10:48):
the way that some of the large timber investments currently are.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
What about various conservation programs and things like carbon credits,
how significant are those?
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, So, I mean there was a lot of noise
around carbon sea questration and credits associated with that maybe
two or three years ago, and we took a hard
look at it because we own so much real estate
and the idea of regenerative ag being great for the
land and being able to benefit from that with a
payment cycle was very interesting to us. What we found
(11:20):
was the strings attached, and in many cases farmers were
already doing a lot of these practices. The people that
we worked with, they were already using cover crops. The
question is can you get paid for that in a
way that doesn't attach strings that jeopardize things later on.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
What are cover crops.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Cover crops would be so once your crop is harvested,
you're planting a second crop there to prevent erosion, to
maintain nutrients in the soil. So winter wheat. When people
plant wheat, generally that is a cover crop that they're
deciding in the spring. Did it winter over well enough
that they're going to harvest it or are they going
to just leave it there and then eventually kill it
(11:59):
and plant another crop into it. But it helps prevent erosion.
Soil erosion helps maintain nutrients and moisture in the soil.
So cover cropping is a great form of regenerative egg
or sustainable agriculture that's been around for a long time.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
And if they don't harvest it. And we talked to
earlier about some of the shows I watched, like Clarkson's
Farm and Harry's Farm, they just essentially run the combine
through a ShredIt and then.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Yeah, they can till it under put it right in there, and.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
That becomes a resource for the next crop.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
Yeah, exactly, more nutrients in the soil. So when we
looked at those carbon credits, we thought, well, the land
is the only means of production for generating this credit,
the landowner and the farmer should probably get a bigger
portion of the credit than the person who's transacting, and
in a typical Wall street where that's not how it works.
So we have not been a big mover on the
(12:53):
carbon sequestration side because we don't think it's a real
benefit to landowners financially. Now maybe from an agronomy standpoint,
but if they're doing it anyway, you don't need to
sign a contract. So as we think about that, you know,
conservation in terms of payments, you need a special structure
to really benefit from that. There are folks that sell
conservation easements. That's not something we do, but there is
(13:16):
a group around that. One of the things that we've
taken a harder look at is wetlands banking because when
there's development going on, specifically in the Midwest, a lot
of industrial development, Departments of transportation, as they expand highways,
there's always wetlands to mitigate. So there are a number
of developed markets for creating a wetlands bank and then
(13:38):
selling credits into that for development, and that's something we've
been taking a hard look at. In states like Michigan,
and Wisconsin.
Speaker 1 (13:44):
Huh. Really interesting. Let's talk about the use case for farmland.
That is the single biggest shocker to me. Artificial intelligence.
What's going on with these big data centers that seem
to be popping up everywhere.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, I mean they seem to really be targeting areas
with great power resources and capacity on the grid on
the electric side, natural gas lines or natural gas fired
power plants close by, fiber optic networks that are close by,
and then access to water for cooling, whether it's groundwater
or otherwise. And it seems like in the Midwest there's
(14:21):
been a huge push into this. So the old rust
belt is done and there's new manufacturing coming in, and
data centers seem to be the highest value that's being built.
And it's being built at scale by a number of
different players out there now. And it just seems as
though land that you might have said ten years ago,
well that was not the best land because it has
(14:42):
a transmission line running through it. Now that's like being
right next to the exit on the interstate. It's a
huge bonus for that land.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And when you say big players, I'm thinking Microsoft, Google, Amazon,
who are the big players in this space?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, those are the groups as well as meta that
they have a seems like a real thirst for these
single user data centers, and they tend to target the places.
Those groups tend to target the places that are the
most attractive, and they're the most aggressive and trying to
put them under contract. Even where we're based in South Bend, Indiana,
there's two very large data center projects going on now,
(15:16):
one by Amazon one by Microsoft that are transforming the area,
and I don't think they'll be the last ones.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
So there are a variety of different land use options
that can either generate revenue or drive appreciation. Did I
forget any do we miss anything? Those are a lot
of different things.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Yeah, those are the big ones. And traditional manufacturing distribution centers.
These are things that have been happening at least in
the Midwest now for generations and it just continues so
the more that the economy continues to grow. That's one
area where maybe farmland is a little more levered to
the economy for some of these non farm uses because
of that, and these tend to be multiples of anywhere
(15:56):
from five to ten to twenty x farmland value, so
it can be very meaningful in the market.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
So to wrap up, there are a number of things
that make land valuable. Sure, it's a place to build
a house or a commercial building, or to farm to
grow crops, but real assets have become increasingly valuable due
to things like water rights, solar winds, mineral rights, and
now artificial intelligence data centers. It's a fascinating development and
(16:28):
they ain't making any more land, so this is likely
to keep staying popular in the future. I'm Barry Ritolts.
You've been listening to At the Money on Bloomberg Radio
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Farmable
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