Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. This is Masters in
Business with Barry Ritholts on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
This week on the podcast, I have yet another extra
special guest. Melissa Smith is co head of Commercial Banking
for JP Morgan.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Previously, she was co head of the bank's Innovation Economy Group.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Really fascinating because she sees the world from a very
unique perch. Has incredible access to every aspect of both
commercial and investing banking that a small startup or medium
sized company and by medium I mean up to two
billion dollars in revenue might need, and that gives her
(00:54):
this really incredible set of insights into how these companies
are growing, what they need, what direction various industries are
moving in. It's really kind of fascinating because if you
remember back twenty five years ago, Wall Street and the
large investment banks and brokers were kind of accused of
(01:14):
moving up market and abandoning that whole middle section and
allowing private equity to get a toe hold there. To
their credit, JP Morgan has aggressively moved back into what
some people used to call, you know, middle merchant banking
or middle market banking. And I thought this conversation is
(01:35):
just a whole world that you don't know exists and
is in fact robust and growing rapidly. I thought this
was a fascinating conversation and I think you will also
with no further ado, my conversation with JP Morgan's Melissa Smith.
Speaker 4 (01:51):
Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure
to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Well, thank you for being here. Let's talk a little
bit about your background before we work up to JP Morgan.
Bachelor's in political science from American University and then you
get a master's in public policy from University of Chicago,
not the traditional path for people in finance.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
What was the original plan?
Speaker 5 (02:13):
So I definitely thought that I was going to work
in the public sector. When I'm recruiting at JP Morgan,
I always get the question sort of how did you
get into investment banking? And I would love to tell
people I had a grand plan. I didn't really have
a grand plan. But my policy degree was at University
of Chicago, so it was very heavy econ and stats
and basically the same core curriculum as the business school.
(02:35):
And in my summer in between, I worked for Mayor
Daily in Chicago and economic development issues and as I
was doing that, I sort of decided it would be
even more interesting to come to the public sector at
a more senior level. And I also wanted to make
sure that I was going somewhere that would really leverage
the quantitative skills that I was acquiring at Chicago. And
(02:56):
I also thought it'd be a really good idea to
be able to pay off my undergrad and grad school life.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So that makes a lot of sense. But before you
got your master's in public policy, you have a little
bit of a different professional experience. You began ballet at
age four and dance professionally for how many years?
Speaker 4 (03:16):
For three years?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Tell us about that that is not the usual path
to Wall Street.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Definitely not so. Yes, I started taking ballet at a
very early age.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
That was my.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Original career aspirations. Starting in seventh grade. My poor mother
drove me one hundred and twenty miles round trip every
day to Washington, d C.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
To go to ballet where I was from.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Left school early at noon, kind of got home at
nine or ten at night every night, and so, you know,
quite frankly, my parents were sick of driving me. So
I graduated from high school year early in order to
dance and sort of continue my dance training and then
dance professionally before I went to college. And my again,
my aspiration was to just continue dancing professionally. As you
(04:00):
may or may not be aware, you know, very few
people obviously sort of make it in that world point
zero zero zero zer zir one percent are ever going
to be an ABT, which is sort of the pinnacle
in the US American Ballet theater. And so while I was,
you know, good enough to be in a small company,
I was not going to be an ABT and I
didn't want to totally give up my education, and so
that's why I stopped.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I know people who were pretty far along that same process,
and as they've gotten older, they talk about like they
sound like old football players talking about injuries, their ankles,
their toes, their caves, their knees. I'm like, wait, no, no,
you guys are just dancing and they laugh when you
say that.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
What was your experience like with that?
Speaker 5 (04:38):
I mean, it was an amazing experience in that it
teaches you such a huge amount of discipline and you know,
takes determination, perseverance and kind of grit. You know, just
back to there's very few people who sort of make it.
You are in a sort of a siloed world because
all you do every day is dance. Is kind of
how I describe it. And I would also say, you know,
I can have this debate with people all day long.
(05:01):
I think there is no greater form of athlete than
a dancer. To your point, they are It is grueling
on one's body and really really physical, really really physical.
I'm in any way that any other athletics are. With
the added sort of thing on top, which is the
whole point of ballet is to make it look effortless.
(05:21):
There's no like grunting down the basketball court or the
football court, right, So it takes the same amount of strength,
but you add the control of your body on top
of that to make it look effortless. And that's why,
you know, sort of the athleticism is very unique. But
it was an incredible experience and I felt very lucky
at a young age to have something that I was
so passionate about. Not everybody sort of has that in
their lives at an early age.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
And your comment about perseverance and grit, those are personality characteristics.
I don't know you know whether to call them skills
or not, but that will help you no matter what
you do. Absolutely absolutely, So ballet to college to grad school.
How did you stumble into JP Morgan?
Speaker 5 (06:03):
So again, did not have a grand plan at the
time that I was in Policy School at Chicago. JP
Morgan's public finance team recruited specifically at the policy school.
Just back to it was this, you know, very kind
of quantitatively based and so kind of randomly went to
the interview to be quite honest, and was you know,
did well, was offered a role sort of back back
(06:24):
to my earlier point, kind of thought it was good
to get some private sector credibility at my resume, learn
something new, and I think probably as anybody coming out
of either undergrad or grad school thinks, you know, oh,
I'll go do this for five years and sort of.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
See where that leads me.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
And lo and behold, you know, have been at JP
Moore in to your point, you know, twenty plus years.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
Now, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
So you start as an associate, You're focused on debt? Yes,
was there an interest in debt? Was that just related
to public policy?
Speaker 5 (06:49):
So I started in public finance, which is back to
that's why they were recruiting in the policy, So taxes
and bonds for municipalities. I did that for about a
year and a half, two years, and then I moved
in to deck capital markets for corporates, so kind of
an easy transition taxes and bonds to a corporate bonds.
And then I spent you know, the majority of my
earlier career, the first sixteen years of my career in
the investment bank in debt capital markets.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
And just for the youngsters listening, twenty five or so
years ago, high rated municipal tax free bonds were yielding
five six percent maybe more, maybe more. Just those were
the before we start where I guess we're only halfway
through our forty year rate cutting cycle.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
You could get tax re yield.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
At seven percent imagine and a rated not jump.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Imagine what that was like totally all right, So so you.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Go from public finance, how did you evolve towards cohad
of innovation economy?
Speaker 5 (07:47):
So was in a decent deck capital markets? I like
to say I grew up in deck capital markets, which,
as an aside, I think that was such a great
experience because you know, in DCM you're sitting on the
trading floor, right. Loved being in that environment because I
think it fosters learning so much more quickly. I literally
sat next to the managing director that I worked for
and listen on all the client calls and sort of
(08:09):
you understand much more quickly how to handle specific situations.
I also it was sort of an interesting dynamic where
you're on the private side, on the origination side, talking
to corporate clients and advising them about their next you know,
debt raise or their funding needs, but you have to
spend a lot of time with the traders who are
trading the bonds and the public markets, and they're obviously
(08:29):
on the public side, so you're sort of walled off, right,
But then you'd have to go over on to talk
to the traders, and sometimes you'd walk over there and
you need information from them, but they can't give you
any information, and so you'd walk over there and sometimes
they sort of look at you because they're busy, and
you sort of get this feeling, you know, get out
of my face, Well what do you want? So I
(08:49):
think it was an interesting experience because you have to
kind of, you know, gain some credibility with them, and
you know, ask insightful questions, show that you have some
sort of use. So I thought thought it was a
great way to kind of like grow up and learn
about the business. But again, was in DCM for sixteen years,
including three years that I was in London running our
European dek Coup of Markets business.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
I got a lot of questions for you about Europe,
but we'll so back to that later. I'm looking at
my own handwriting twenty two or twenty seven years?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
Is that twenty.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Seven years you've been there?
Speaker 5 (09:19):
I think it's twenty six so going on twenty so
going on twenty seven now I feel old.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
So it's not.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
Well, what's more fascinating is and you started when you were,
you know, seventeen, so there got a big deal. But
you know, that's relatively rare these days to be at
any one firm for quarter plus century. What is so
special at JP Morgan? What's kept you there for so long?
Speaker 4 (09:43):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (09:44):
So first I would say you will actually find many
senior people at JP Morgan who have been there for
twenty years plus, and I think that is obviously a
great testament to the culture that we have at the firm. Secondly,
I would say JP Morgan is a large place, clearly,
and what that means is there are multiple lines of
business with many different things that you can do over
the course of your career. And generally speaking, we are
(10:05):
sort of number one or number two in everything that
we do, which which again is a great privilege to
work there from that perspective, so it doesn't make a
lot of sense to go necessarily to another firm when
you're sort of trading down, if you will.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
In some instances maybe I shouldn't say that the way.
Speaker 5 (10:18):
But and so I think what's cut me there is,
you know, a just the opportunity to do many different things,
learn about many other aspects of the business. And two,
you know, obviously you know very much appreciate kind of
the culture and environment at JP Morgan kind of back
to that's why people stay there for so long. It's
a very team morek oriented environment. You know, we like
to quote JP Morgan first class business in a first
(10:40):
class way. We take that very seriously and just appreciated
that about the environment.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So let's talk about your dual role, your your cohead
of Innovation Economy and your head of specialized industries. Tell
us what each of those roles encompass.
Speaker 5 (10:55):
Sure, so our specialized Industry's business sits within our our
middle market business, and just to define that middle market
sort of means in the commercial banking, right, so anything
from kind of a very early stage startup to a
company that's up to two billion in top line revenue,
so kind of a very wide wide readmit.
Speaker 4 (11:11):
If you will.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
About half of that business is the industry business that
I run, So I have nineteen different industry teams, so
bankers that are experts in those specific industries to provide
obviously coverage to clients in those industries. And I would
just say, I mean, we are just a big believer
in the the you know, better coverage and better that
(11:32):
we can much better serve a client when our bankers
have that expertise in terms of the industry. So we're
kind of very big believers in industry expertise and kind
of hyper segmentation in terms of covering companies at different
stages and sizes in their life cycle. So nineteen different industries.
Innovation economy is basically a part of that, and we
use that innovation economy kind of umbrella term to describe
(11:54):
tech early stage tech, life sciences, health tech, climate tech
businesses which are generally making high growth VC backs businesses overall.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Well, let's talk a little bit about that. I'm familiar
with a lot of the companies that vcs tend to back.
But one of the things that we've been noticing very
obviously over the past few years is the amount of
not venture income, but either private equity or private debt.
(12:22):
How does that play out in the companies you're servicing.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Absolutely two really important trends.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
So I would say so within the innovation economy, to
your point, a lot of the companies tend to be
VC backed, but there definitely is growing growing sort of
crossover into into growth equity funds. I think in the
middle market commercial banking business as a whole, there has
been a ton of activity from the financial sponsor community,
so a ton of consolidation of those middle market businesses.
And when you just look at sort of the levels
(12:49):
of activity, like what are sponsors buying, it is within
that middle market space. So that has definitely driven a
lot of activity overall and something that we spend a
lot of time talking about with with our clients. And
then secondly, to your point, on the private credit direct
lending side, that also has been just a massive trend
impacting sort of that part of the business with these
companies looking for alternative sources of capital and direct lending
(13:11):
being a great, a great alternative. That's in fact why
we as a firm sort of developed our own direct
lending capability a couple of years ago. And I think
the great benefit of that is again we sort of
pride ourselves on being kind of financing our product agnostic. Right,
we can do a traditional bank loan, we can do
sort of a sort of you know, public execution and
the public debt markets, or we can do a direct
(13:32):
lending transaction sort of whatever best fits the company's objectives.
Speaker 4 (13:35):
We can sort of do it all.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
So let's talk about that, because you know, part of
your job description is delivering a cohesive banking experience to
fast growing companies. So the two different divisions that you're
running head or cohed innovation Economy and specialized industries obviously
have to work together. What other divisions at JP Morgan
(13:57):
are you collaborating with?
Speaker 4 (13:59):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (13:59):
I would say just generally we collaborate across the firm
and everything that we do. So the commercial bank is
very broadly speaking, regardless of industry, regardless of what aspect
of the commercial bank we're talking about. We're constantly working
with our partners in the investment bank when companies need
obviously excuse me, strategic capital raising M and a advisory
(14:19):
whatever the case may be. So we're constantly kind of
working in conjunction with one another. And at the same
time we are often working with our asset management colleagues
when companies have you know, large cash balances that they
need to invest, and our private banking colleagues. And I
think a good example of that is within the innovation
economy kind of ecosystem overall, where because it is so interconnected.
(14:40):
When you think about VC firms funding you know, portfolio companies,
those portfolio companies having founders, they're oftentimes there repeat founders.
It's important that you can serve sort of the needs
of that entire, very interconnected ecosystem.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
So bankers on my.
Speaker 5 (14:54):
Team, on the Innovation Economy team are serving those portfolio
companies right But at the same time we're working with
our colleagues and asset management and the private bank who
bank the VC firms themselves and bank the VC partners
and the founders for their private wealth needs.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
So our objective is to deliver sort of.
Speaker 5 (15:11):
All the needs of the ecosystem, and that's why sort
of by definition, we're always working across lines of business.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
So really what you're saying is from a checking account
up to a secondary financing, private debt, up to an
IPO and even beyond that if there's an acquisition or
a merger. You guys are full service not only commercial bank,
but investment bank.
Speaker 3 (15:34):
There really is in any space that you.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
Guys can't play in and service exactly what a fast
growing startup needs exactly.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
You said it perfectly, and as I often like to say,
we serve companies from startup to IPO and beyond, and
so you know, again, we believe we're really one of
the few firms who can actually serve every.
Speaker 4 (15:55):
Need of these companies. And again they're the founders themselves.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Huh. Really really interesting thing.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
So let's talk a little bit about middle market banking.
You referred earlier the definition of middle market banking as
up to two billion in revenues.
Speaker 4 (16:11):
Top line running.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
So that's this is not a little These are not
all little companies. That's a two billion in revenue is
a pretty decent sized company.
Speaker 5 (16:19):
Absolutely, and again we have teams focused on the smaller size.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
What we call emerging middle market.
Speaker 5 (16:25):
So think about that's kind of twenty million to one
hundred million in top line revenue, innovation economy doing the
high growth, you know, VC backed startups, and then a
bunch of different industries obviously within kind of that broader
commercial banking universe and bankers that are focused simply on
one hundred million and plus in top line.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Revenue's that's really interesting. And we've talked earlier about the
role of venture banking in this Where does that fit in,
Where does venture capital fin into startups, and where does
venture banking fit in as companies get a little.
Speaker 5 (16:55):
Larger generally speaking, And our objective is to really become
the company's primary operating bank and trusted advisor from the
very beginning, right, And so as an example of that,
we now have a startup banking team that actually covers
companies at pre seed and seed stage, so oftentime, could
be before they've even raised an institutional.
Speaker 4 (17:13):
Round of capital.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
And at that point in time, their needs are very
sort of simple, if you will, right, They need a
bank account, they need to pay their employees, they need
to have a way to sort of collect funds. They
may need a credit card, just very simple banking needs,
and then obviously as the companies you know continue to grow,
those needs become more complex over time, including the need
to either raise additional capital and whether that be from
(17:36):
a venture capital fund or whoever that may.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
Be coming from.
Speaker 5 (17:39):
They may need some debt financing, and sort of on
and on and on in terms of what they ultimately
need to achieve their objectives and kind of become the
company that they want to become.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
So what's the split between the companies you work with
that are VC funded, that are private equity backed, or
just bootstrapped by the founders themselves.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
So I would say again it very it would very
significantly depending on the industries that we're talking about. But
I if just we focus on the innovation economy business specifically,
the vast majority of those are going to be VC backed.
As I mentioned, of course, you know sort of the
crossover if you will, between growth of equity and VC.
The lines continue to get blurred, But I would say
about twentysh percent of the business is sort of PE
(18:18):
backed and the rest is VC back. Just brought broad numbers.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
Bootstrapping still goes on, or is that.
Speaker 4 (18:23):
It does again?
Speaker 5 (18:24):
And you see that you know, certainly at the sort
of preceed and seed stage and then but I would
say it's still it's a minority, right of the larger
companies within the innovation economy.
Speaker 2 (18:33):
So I'm thinking about their balance sheet, what's the split
between how much is equity, how much is debt or
do you do a combination of debt and equity?
Speaker 3 (18:42):
What does this look like today?
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
No, absolutely so Again, the whole purpose of having a
partner like JP Morgan is that a we can sort
of help the companies think through what the optimal capital
structure is and back to sort of the point of
we're sort of product agnostic, depending on what the company
choose to do. Most of these companies that are high
growth VC backed in what we call the innovation economy
business tend to still be pre profit, right. They're growing
(19:06):
really rapidly. They're throwing everything back into the business in
order to achieve scale. So for the most part, their
use of debt is quite small, usually some kind of
small venture debt component, and we really want to work
with those companies to think about when is the right
time to put debt in their capital structure, depending again
on where they are and sort of that life cycle,
and depending on sort of what their cash burn looks like,
(19:28):
how close they are to the next capital raise, what
is the likelihood that they're actually going to be able
to raise the next round of capital. So it is
a combination of both, but again, the majority of their
capital structure is definitively going to be equity given that
they're cash burning companies generally speaking.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, and I'm assuming you're not involved in angel rounds
or very early seed stuff, which kind of leads me
to what sort of criteria does your team use when
you're trying to figure out, Hey, is this an early
stage company that we want to have a banking relationship.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Can we be value add to them?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Or they still too novel, too green, no business, no revenue, Like,
how do what sort of corterity do you use it?
Speaker 5 (20:10):
So I think about it as as quite as a pyramid.
So there is a lot that we can do for
companies across, you know, all stages of their life cycle.
But when you're talking about the very earliest stages back
to they have fairly simplistic needs, right, and so we
want to be able to bank and can bank as
many of those companies as possible, assuming that you know,
there's we don't find anything from a reputational risk perspective
(20:34):
or something or an industry that we think is challenging.
But I think again, becoming their primary operating bank, helping
them optimize their working capital is sort of like the
biggest challenge that these companies are. Not the biggest challenge,
but one of the challenges that these companies face. So
we can bank in terms of providing a bank account,
credit card again, sort of payables, receivables, many, many, many companies.
(20:55):
As we think about which are the companies we're going
to lend to, right, which is a sort of the
next round of the pyramid, if you will, and that's
we obviously need to really assess their sustainability over time,
their ability to raise the next round of capital, because
when you think about venture debt, that's really one of
the gating factors. Is this company going to be able
(21:18):
to raise the next round of capital, what's the cash
burn look like to obviously get them to that next
capital raise, and how are they using debt to sort
of extend that runway overall?
Speaker 4 (21:25):
So those are sort of the types.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
Of things that we're thinking about when we think about
which of those companies that are sort of credit worthy
for us to be lending to and obviously support them
to again get to the next roundcap really interesting.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
So I have a recollection of the era following the
dot com ramp up and then the crash in two
thousand and it felt like a lot of the major
banks had moved up market, like the middle market was
kind of abandoned, so and lots of private equity seem
(21:58):
to have filled that gap. So kind of fascinated that
a giant bank like JP Morgan is addressing that same
market segment that generally people seem to have feel like
the bigger Wall Street banks have abandoned. You're telling me
you're focusing in that.
Speaker 5 (22:16):
Space absolutely, because I think, and i'll again kind of
focus on two segments, if you will, kind of just
the broader commercial banking business and then the innovation economy
of business. Specifically, when you think about the broader commercial
banking business, right, so not just high growth VC backed companies,
but small businesses overall. Right, there are three hundred thousand,
you know, small businesses across across the country that represent
(22:39):
you know, thirteen trillion in revenues and employee forty million people, right,
So it is a massive part of the economy overall
that we very much want to serve, and we've been
expanding that business quite substantially, mainly through sort of geographic
expansion over the course of the last several years. We
serve you know, thirty two thousand middle market companies today
(23:00):
across our commercial bank. So certainly, again there's back to
a lot that we want to do and can do
to support small business as kind of an engine of
the economy overall that we very much think is there's
an opportunity there for us, but it's also sort of a.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Responsibility right for us to serve those businesses.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
I think on the innovation economy side, just back to
how I mean when you look at the disruption going
on across every industry today and the innovation, JP Morigan
clearly wants to be there to support those founders with
sort of the next innovative idea. And I always like
to point to the fact that you know, we've been
serving innovative companies literally for over two hundred years when
you look back at our history, right, we supported Thomas
(23:36):
Edison and the invention of the light bulb, the railroads,
the automobile like those were disruptors at that time. But
I think on the innovation economy business specifically, when we
first started, I'll give you a little history of the business.
When we first sort of started a dedicated focus. So
we had always served early stage tech companies in the
commercial bank, but just by sort of a local banker
(23:56):
that didn't.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Have any expertise in tech. Right, they cover all industries.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
So back in twenty sixteen twenty seventeen, we put in
place sort of a dedicated team of bankers. At that
point in time, I would say we primarily did. We
were very good in terms of our capabilities at serving
let's call it kind of series C and beyond right,
And when I came into this role, we very much
noticed that a founder right and for their company would
walk into a Chase branch, they'd open a bank account,
(24:21):
and then they would quickly leave that Chase branch and
move to one of our competitors who were very good
at serving early stage, high growth, early stage VC back companies,
and then they'd come back to us at sort of
series C right generalization. So when I came into this
role sort of said, what are we missing? Right in
that very early stage in terms of our capabilities, Like,
(24:42):
let's skip that part where they leave the JP Morgan
sort of franchise, right, And really what we were missing
was sort of a very simplified treasury what we call
treasury kind of payments bundle for companies to manage working capital,
a simple digital platform for earlier stage companies, and a
venture de capability. And that's what we really built out
(25:03):
sort of from kind of twenty seventeen twenty eighteen over
the course of the past several years, so that we
had best in class capabilities both for early stage companies
as well as late stage companies where everybody thinks about
JP Morgan is serving later stage.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
So you mentioned earlier that you're expanding geographically. We'll talk
about international in a few minutes, but let's stay in
the United States for a bit. I think of JP
Morgan down on Wall Street, very New York based. What
geographies have you been expanding to. What parts of the
country seem to be very fast growing these days?
Speaker 4 (25:35):
Sure?
Speaker 5 (25:35):
Well, so I would just say today our commercial banking business,
you know, is in the eighty five you know, fastest
growing top sort of msas across the country. We have
one hundred and twenty five offices across the country, two
thousand plus bankers across the country. A big part of
that expansion over really the last decade has been sort
of California in the West coast overall, where we prior
(25:58):
to the Wallmu acquisition didn't have a ton of sort
of like retail presence and or sort of boots on
the ground there. So that's accounted for a lot of
that geographic expansion as well as you know, expansion into
the Southeast and sort of other states in the West obviously,
sort of moving from what historically, you know, decades and
decades ago, was more of an kind of East Coast
dominated business, and that's what's accounted for a lot of
(26:18):
the growth within the business as a whole.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
What about down south places like Charlotte or Nashville, or
Texas or Florida.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Absolutely, I mean when you look at again kind of
depends on the industry, but when you look at the
innovation economy business and kind of where some of the
newer markets are. From a VC funding perspective, you are
seeing a lot of growth in you know, the Phillies
of the world, the DC's of the world, you know,
San Diego. I mean, certainly there's still like a huge,
(26:49):
huge concentration in kind of you know, the Bay area
and then kind of New York Boston area. But there
are cities. Miami is a good example for our healthcare business.
Nashville is you know, has exploed did over the past
several years. So again depending on the industry, it depends
on sort of where our concentration of bankers are. But
you know, back to that's why we are in one
hundred and twenty five cities across the country.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So let's talk international. You spent was it a year
in London?
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Three years?
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Three years?
Speaker 2 (27:14):
Yes, So you're an old hand there you go dealing
with Europe. So let's talk a little bit about what's
happening in the UK and what's going on in Europe.
How do you look at those markets? Can you play
in those spaces? Tell us a little bit about what
the work is like there.
Speaker 5 (27:28):
Sure, So I would say from a commercial banking perspective,
we definitely support companies globally, and I do think that's
again one of JP Morgan's competitive advantages. As earlier stage
companies are looking to expand internationally, we can support them
across you know, basically any market they're gonna they're going
to across, you know, both Amya and a PAC. So yes,
(27:50):
we support companies there. And then we have teams on
the ground in Europe and Asia, et cetera that are
supporting early stage companies that are headquarters in Europe in
a PAC and their expansion into the US. So kind
of doing it both ways, inbound and outbound. And again
I think that that's something that with our long history
of operating in these various jurisdictions, helping to advise companies
(28:12):
on sort of the right strategy as they think about
those international expansions.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Huh really really interesting. What percentage of your business is international?
I can't imagine JP Mugan feels like it's so dominant
in the US. What's the perception like overseas?
Speaker 3 (28:27):
How is it?
Speaker 5 (28:28):
So, I would say for our commercial banking business. So
let me separate this out of a moment. So again,
the commercial banking business the US is serving US headquarter companies,
but when they have a European sub or an Asian sub,
that clearly is a smaller percentage of the company's overall revenue.
So a smaller percentage of like the revenue that we
would earn as well, but we're supporting them globally. The
(28:50):
commercial banking sort of build out in Europe and in
Asia for bankers on the ground supporting European and Asian
headquarter companies is a newer effort, newer over the past
seven or eight years. So it's not as robust in
terms of our robust is the wrong word. It's not
(29:10):
as far along right as I mean.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
It is clearly, clearly well established here for hundreds of years.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Hundreds of years, and we've been in Europe and Asia
for hundreds of years. Investment banking hundreds of years is
maybe a strong word, but for many, many, many decades
from an investment banking perspective. But the build out of
the commercial bank supporting smaller sized companies in those markets
is newer seven, seven or eight years ago, and.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
That's a white space that's got to be wide open.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
Now, absolutely absolutely, and again we're finding great traction because
there is so much obviously, as we all are well aware,
economies and companies operate in such a global fashion today
that a company sitting in Europe obviously has generally speaking
plans to expand in other parts of the globe, the
US being a huge market, particularly across tech and consumer
facing businesses, et cetera, So that connectivity is important.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
And you said earlier from checking to IPO, how do
you think about the IPO market which has been so
quiet the past few years. We really haven't seen a
lot of companies coming public. How do you view this,
When might that change and how does this impact your business?
Speaker 5 (30:17):
Sure, so, we are definitely optimistic on the IPO market
this year, and I think even you know, in twenty
twenty four saw a significant uptick in issuance versus twenty
twenty three. Obviously we were coming off a low base,
but we saw about thirty three billion in IPO volume
in twenty twenty four. We think that that could double
this year, you know, just given I think a stable backdrop,
(30:40):
more kind of confidence all around the markets. We've also
just seen a more stable you know, US economy obviously
so far, you know, knock on wood, feels like we
sort of took a soft landing right.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
In the US.
Speaker 5 (30:52):
We now have rates on the decline, which is supportive
of the IPO market. We'll sort of see if that,
you know, how that kind of plays out of the course,
of the year, and then I think, you know, the
expectation of sort of double digit earnings growth in the
coming year is also very supportive of the equity market.
So we do think you're going to see a lot
more activity in the IPO market this year. And obviously
there's just a ton of supply that's built up over
(31:14):
the past couple of years of as companies have stayed
private longer and waiting for a better window to access
that IPO market.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
So we're recording this at the end of January. I
don't recall seeing anybody's forecast for the year ahead saying, hey, really,
an expensive AI from China Deep Seek is going to
completely disrupt everything. How do you look at the not
just the technological disruption that we're all experiencing, but the
(31:43):
incredible pace as to how rapid everything is advancing.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
How do you think about this and how does that
impact the day job?
Speaker 2 (31:50):
How does it impact the work?
Speaker 5 (31:51):
Sure, so clearly, you know, just talking about Deep Seek specifically,
obviously just a huge impact on the equity markets.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
You know, as you.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Saw a lot of a lot of some of the
larger names trading down significantly, we did see a rebound
sort of the following day, which was which was beneficial.
I do think, you know, AI is obviously going to
be continued to be a big story over the course
of twenty twenty five. There's also just a tremendous amount
of capital that needs to be raised to kind of
support that industry overall. And so I do think, like
(32:25):
back to sort of the comments about sort of stable
macroeconomic backdrop rates declining, all of that will be supportive
of the broader IPO market and the ability to access
those markets. Yes, we're going to kind of continue to
see volatility with some of these surprises, like the deep
Sake example, but it hasn't really changed our view, our
very constructive view on the market going forward.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Let's talk a little bit about some of your thoughts
on leadership at the bank and long term strategy. If
we go back five or six years, you're a managing
director and head of specialized industries. What types of firms
were you working with then and are you still working
with the same firms or has your portfolio widened since then?
Speaker 5 (33:10):
Well, I would say that portfolio has widened in the
sense that we've continued to add various industries. So specialized
industries I think I mentioned before it's nineteen different industries.
There was some example, Yeah, so that spans a very
wide remit. So some of our very mature businesses, for instance,
our government business supporting states and municipalities and school districts
across the country. We've been doing excuse me doing that
(33:31):
since you know Japan worn sort of was founded. So
the government business are not for profit healthcare, hire ed
and nonprofit business. Again to very mature businesses. We also
have you know, beverage food and nag our M and
C business supporting some of the subsidiaries. Media, communications and
digital infrastructure very hot sector right now in terms of
the huge need for data centers and capital for data
(33:53):
centers overall, the innovation economy business again as I mentioned,
sort of part of all that. So those are some
examples of the industries that that fall within that that remit.
So again, when we first started specialized industries, I'm not
going to remember the exact number, but we probably had
five industries within that, right, and so we've just continued
to build out that dedicated expertise over the course of
(34:14):
the past several years, which we've just found great success in.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So how do you assess risk when you're rolling into
a new sector or specialized industry. When you're working in
a space for a while, you kind of learn what
the you know, where the minds are laid. When you
move into a new space, how do you approach that?
Speaker 5 (34:34):
Well, I would just say it's not as if we
weren't banking companies in each of those industries before. It's
simply that we did not have dedicated bankers that only did.
Speaker 4 (34:44):
That, right, So back to this is why we very.
Speaker 5 (34:47):
Much believe and it's been proven out in terms of
the growth that we've seen in sort of the specialized
industries business. So we sort of focus in on the
sectors where we think it makes a difference for the
banker to have that industry expertise. Keep in mind, we
partner with the investment bank on the m and A
advisory and strategic capital raising and they are all industry focused, right,
But does the commercial banker need that industry expertise? Is
(35:09):
there something very different about the credit risk associated with
those industries that that banker expertise helps and that we
need sort of dedicated credit teams.
Speaker 4 (35:17):
Again, with the focus on those specific.
Speaker 5 (35:19):
Industries, is there something different about the product and solution
set for those companies that would require us to have
that dedicated focus back to kind of the innovation economy business.
As I was saying earlier, we didn't have the early
stage capabilities that we needed, you know, seven eight years ago,
and that's what it was a very kind of bespoke
to those high growth companies and the challenges.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
That we fade that they face that led us to.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Kind of build out those digital capabilities and bundled solutions.
So that's a good example of why we felt like
we needed to build that as an industry.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
So it's kind of fascinating that you're serving clients who
are rapidly innovating, expanding into spaces that wholly on we're seeing.
How do you keep up with that, how do you
make sure that you're innovative and cutting edge, and how
do you build this when it it's almost as if
your clients are outpacing you know, the rest of the market.
Speaker 5 (36:13):
Absolutely, and I would say that is one of the
best parts of my job is meeting with founders all
day long and really obviously hearing about their businesses and
what they are doing to kind of disrupt industries, new
technologies and that is extraordinarily rewarding in terms of hearing
about that and how we can help support that growth. Overall,
(36:35):
it is very different meeting with again kind of back
to my earlier background spending time in deck capital markets.
You're basically covering Fortune five hundred companies. It's very which
is its own unique circumstances and those companies have their
own challenges. But it's very different speaking to the treasure
CFO or CEO of Fortune five hundred company than a founder, right, Like,
(36:57):
there's just it's a very different.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Different focus, different.
Speaker 4 (37:01):
Space exactly, and skill set.
Speaker 5 (37:03):
So that again is sort of the most fun part
of my job is being able to interact with all
of those founders and hear about sort of the technology
to come.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
So I'm intrigued at about the work you did in
debt capital markets, especially when you were in Europe for
three years. What are the major differences between the way
we manage debt capital markets and the way they do?
Speaker 3 (37:24):
Is it structural?
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Tell us about you know, why is it that? Are
they very similar or are they different?
Speaker 5 (37:32):
Well, so a couple things, I would say that, just
one in terms of how we think about covering companies
in deck hon arcerts. In the US, we're organized by
industry team. In Europe for obviously obviously reasons were organized
by country team given language differences. So that again was
something that I very much enjoyed, was sitting back to
in DCM. You're in the trading floor environment. I would
(37:53):
have my UK team over here, my Germany team, my
Italy team, so you know, everyone speaking different languages. I
kept thinking I was going to learn five languages by osmosis.
That did not work, so unfortunately.
Speaker 4 (38:01):
That's not the case.
Speaker 5 (38:03):
But that was that was a great experience overall. I
was you know, the European debt capital markets are tend
to be a little bit more volatile than the US.
It's also because they are a lot smaller, right in
terms of just the total volume the investor base that
sort of supports those markets all around, and so that's
one of the major differences. What I would say is
(38:24):
for larger global companies, having access to that European market
has been quite advantageous, both from a capacity perspective if
they were running up against capacity constraints for a very
frequent issue obviously in the US, and two just from
a cost of funding perspective. So over the last several years,
given to the divergence and interest rates between the US
(38:45):
and Europe, for many companies, it's actually been cheaper to
issue bonds or you know, access to debt markets in
Europe than it has been in the US. Right in US,
interest rates were higher. So that's obviously just a great
alternative right for companies when they need to access enormous
amounts of capital and or are obviously very focused on
(39:06):
sort of what the most advantageous cost is.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
So I know you're not an economist, so I'm not
going to ask you that question, but it just feels
like Europe cannot get out of its own way for
I don't know, past five years, ten years, go back
to Brexit and nearly Grexit. What's going on that Europe
seems to be almost structurally lagging the US and having
(39:29):
such difficulty finding its footing.
Speaker 5 (39:32):
Well, I'm also not an expert on politics, so I'm
not going to comment on that because I think there's
something to be said there. But what I would say
from sort of a structural perspective is I think probably
one of the bigger differences today is demographics, where kind
of working age population in Europe is declining. I think
it's still growing modestly in the US, and obviously that
(39:53):
will turn in the US at some point in time,
but so that that has been sort of one issue
in Europe. I think the post COVID recovery in Europe
was a lot more challenging, primarily because of the Russia
Ukraine War and sort of the energy crisis that they faced,
given a lot of their energy was coming from for
energy supply was coming from from Russia. So that had
a very different impact in Europe than it did in
(40:15):
the US.
Speaker 4 (40:16):
Overall.
Speaker 5 (40:17):
If you look at Germany, obviously the largest, you know,
economy in Europe, it's very still sort of heavily manufacturing based.
Higher interest rates have really had hurt manufacturing, global manufacturing,
and so that's how a bigger impact I think on
Germany with those manufacturers operating globally. So those are some
of the things that I would point to. And you know,
there's just never been the same labor productivity across Europe
(40:40):
as there has been in the US, and quite frankly,
just the support for innovation and right and new technology,
and I think that's just had a big impact. Back
to Germany's heavily manufacturing based right, the US probably less so.
Speaker 2 (40:54):
Because when more service oriented, is that the.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
More service oriented?
Speaker 5 (40:57):
And I think again, you don't have the same I
think a lot a lot of countries in Europe are
looking to put in place policies to better incentivize some
of the technological development. But I mean, you don't have
a Bay Area type right, right. I mean you have
little pockets of that kind of concept right where you
have sort of this ecosystem coming together to disrupt and
(41:18):
innovate and support new technology. But there there's nothing as
sort of big as the Bay Area in Europe.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
But you do have world class manufacturing throughout Europe. And
I think absolutely of Mercedes, Porsche, BMW in Germany. You
think of all the I guess it really doesn't scale
watchmaking and things like that, but there are some really
high end companies that are incredibly successful. Are they just
(41:46):
the exceptions?
Speaker 3 (41:47):
What is it? I'm trying to conceptualize?
Speaker 5 (41:49):
Sure, But I also think it's it's much more fragmented
obviously than the US market, with each different country with
its own own rules and regulations and you know, some
some sort of more national less policies than others. And
I think that just has an impact on their ability
to kind of domin and we're talking about Europe is
if it's one thing.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
But it's not so.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
You're saying, really, it's it is structural, it's not so.
The combination of these structural challenges relatively high interest rate,
less productivity gains, and a focus that's less service oriented,
more manufacturing oriented demographics and demographics. Yeah, so the people
(42:28):
who have been waiting for hey, you know, Europe is
going to catch up. It's going to mean revert any second.
That doesn't seem to be in the imminent cards anytime soon.
Speaker 4 (42:39):
I don't think that's in the twenty twenty five cards.
Let's put it there.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
Okay, Hey, that's fair. That's a perfectly fair thing. I
want to talk a little bit about some of the
work you've done on women in banking.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
You were on the Women on the Move.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Podcast and one of the things you said that struck
me was women don't have as robust of a network
as as men do.
Speaker 5 (43:05):
Explain, so that was that was a little bit of
a generalization, probably, but I think what I meant by
that was if women tend to stick to because I
think often earlier in their career and probably I did
the same thing early on. That you stick to sort
of the women's network that you develop, right, and there's
a lot of sort of women's networking events. I'll speak
(43:26):
for financial services specifically. If you only stick to that network,
there's still a lot fewer women and sort of banking
or pick many industries, right, then there are men, and
so that limits kind of that network overall. And so
I think like important that you're spending time with people
across the organization, picking mentors across the organization, networking across
(43:47):
the organization to make sure that you're developing the same
robust network that's sort of some of your male colleagues
would already be doing.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
So I also read you value and prioritize mentorship. How
do you approach this at your job? We'll get to
questions about who your mentors were, But do you have mentees?
Are you?
Speaker 3 (44:09):
Are you practicing what you preach?
Speaker 4 (44:12):
Yes?
Speaker 5 (44:12):
And I very much take that as a serious responsibility
and sort of part of my day job. You know,
we have various I would say, organized programs and then
there's more informal you know, mentors mentorship programs, and I
think both are important. But I think over the years,
you know, making sure that all of the senior individuals
(44:33):
are sort of participating in those mentorship sponsorship programs, giving
younger people sort of the opportunity to learn from someone
else about their career, and again sort of doing the
informal mentoring. I think back to the JP Morgan culture.
I think it's just very endemic there. Someone reaches out,
you know, to have a cup of coffee with you,
you go do that, right, and it's just sort of
(44:54):
something that's expected and something that sort of I grew
up with, if you will, and so certainly something that
I again take very seriously.
Speaker 2 (45:02):
So when I first started this podcast, I want to say,
almost eleven years ago, was very hard finding women in
senior leadership roles and having them come on as guests.
That has become much easier. I'm curious how you see
the industry as as once male dominated. It's still mostly
(45:25):
male dominated, but it feels like it's improving somewhat.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
What are you what's your perspective.
Speaker 5 (45:30):
I do think that a lot of progress has been
made overall. I think, you know, JP Morian not to
toot our own horn, but I think is a great
example for the industry where you look at, you know,
our operating committee, which are the individuals that report directly
to Jamie.
Speaker 4 (45:44):
You know it is heavily female.
Speaker 2 (45:45):
Jamie, I'm sorry, I'm not familiar who is that.
Speaker 5 (45:48):
There are many many females on the operating Committee. So
we've done a great job there and I think that
that's kind of you know, filtered down throughout the organization.
So yes, I do think it has improved substantially. I
do still think there's a lot of challenges, particularly at
that sort of VP late VP early ED level, early
executive director level. A lot of times when people are
having sort of their first their first children and sort
(46:11):
of making sure that we're providing this a supportive environment
that they're able to obviously you know, come back to work.
Speaker 4 (46:17):
As they would like to.
Speaker 5 (46:18):
But yes, I think significant progress has been made at
But I think that is a very intentional effort back
to kind of understanding why if we are losing female
employees or diverse employees, why that is in the same
way that we want to understand why we're losing any employee, right,
any talented employee we don't we don't want to lose.
But I think you have to be just very intentional
about measuring progress and understanding what the challenges are and
(46:43):
if there's anything that you can do or should be
doing to have a more sort of accommodative environment and
inclusive environment.
Speaker 2 (46:49):
So I have a question later about advice to recent
college grads, but as long as we're talking about women
in banking, let's stay focused on that here. What advice
do you have for any young woman who wants to
become part of the financial sector or banking industry.
Speaker 5 (47:08):
I would just say, really taking advantage of friends colleagues
that you know, your network peers to understand all aspects
of the industry. And you know that's hard to do
sometimes when you're in college and you're not sort of
sitting in the organization. But I do think, and this
is not a commentary on females versus males, but just
(47:32):
sort of back to the networking point, you have kind
of a natural advantage if your parent was an investment
banker or a lawyer or right that dealt with with
sort of the banking industry, or you know, pick another
sort of adjacent profession, and so you know, those individuals
know the right questions to ask, are more aware of
(47:52):
the opportunities across the firm. It's not just investment banking.
There's lots of other things we do a JP Morgan
or any firm. So I think just making sure that
you're figuring out how to kind of gather that information
and ask all of those questions so that you are
a little more educated coming in about sort of what
the opportunities are overall.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
Huh, really interesting. So let me throw you a curveball question.
We talked earlier, not only about your ballet at age four,
but dancing professionally for three years. You're a member of
the board of trustees for American Ballet Theater, that's the
pinnacle of dance in America. Tell us a little bit
(48:29):
about the organization, how you found your way to it,
what are you doing with them?
Speaker 4 (48:35):
Sure? So, I have been on the board since two
thousand and nine.
Speaker 3 (48:39):
So wow, that's fifteen plus.
Speaker 4 (48:41):
Yes, yes, so a long time. So again.
Speaker 5 (48:42):
American Ballet Theater, one of the greatest ballet companies in
the world, based here in New York, officially designated by Congress,
is America's national ballet company.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Huh.
Speaker 5 (48:52):
And actually, as of January of this year, I am
the new chair of the Board of ABT.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Which is super exciting.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
But you know, the.
Speaker 5 (49:00):
Board obviously has its basic sort of governmance functions, but
you know, we spend a lot of time helping with
fundraising for the organization and helping provide you know, expertise
where each individual has it. Any nonprofit obviously has a
much more limited sort of staff overall. So if there's
people on the board that have real estate expertise, or
(49:20):
finance expertise or HR expertise, that is very valuable to
the organization as a whole. So there's always sort of
special projects that we you know, sort of participate in
from that perspective, but a big chunk of what the
board does is really making sure people are aware of ABT,
helping with fundraising, helping attract new donors, helping attract and
(49:41):
develop new audience members.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
Huh really really interesting.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Have passed board members and or chair people been former
professional ballet dancers or is this unusual?
Speaker 5 (49:55):
There's always a few, but certainly the majority of people
on the board don't have a background in dance. And
as I always remind everybody, I call it the separation
between church and state. The board is there to sort
of help with the business of running the ballet company.
They have no input whatsoever to anything artistic, which is
why it's not required that you have any sort of background.
Speaker 2 (50:15):
But I'm curious if there have been previous chair people
who were professional ballet.
Speaker 4 (50:19):
Dancers that I would have.
Speaker 5 (50:21):
I don't think so, But I'm not one hundred percent
part right, I don't think so. Our previous chair who
retired at the end of last year, his sister danced
with a company for many years, and that's really how
he became involved in Obviously, you know, very passionate about
the ballet huh.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Really, it's one of those fascinating things that just I
don't see on people's resumes all that often. And I
had no idea you was shamman, but it's really fascinating,
all right. So while I still have you, let's jump
to our favorite questions that we ask all of our guests.
Speaking of entertainment, Let's start with what are you streaming
these days? What's keeping you entertained? It could be Netflix, podcast, whatever,
(50:59):
What what are you enjoying these days?
Speaker 5 (51:01):
So first I would say I am sort of an
avid reader. I was talking with a colleague on my
way over here. Everybody consumes information differently. I consume it
better reading, I think, than always listening right the same way.
So I'm sort of very religious about getting through The
Economist and The New Yorker every week. And I won't
let myself read the next issue of The Economist until
(51:22):
I finish the first one.
Speaker 4 (51:23):
So even if i'm behind, I know that.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
I'm in nineteen eighty six if I follow.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
The Okay, there you go, I might have to get
that up at some point.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
I am currently streaming, I guess, the second season of
The Diplomat, which I'm very much enjoying.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
I so good.
Speaker 5 (51:38):
I love the political action thrillers, but I think I'm
running out of them because I've watched all of them
at this point.
Speaker 4 (51:43):
So you s oh, no, I haven't seen that.
Speaker 2 (51:45):
Okay, so a little more intelligence community slash tip of
the spear, okay, but you know, the same sort of
back and forth layers of intrigue. And but I really
enjoyed The Diplomat. I thought that was fascinating. And then
what was its secretary of state?
Speaker 4 (52:05):
Was the madam secretary Secretary?
Speaker 3 (52:07):
That same concept.
Speaker 5 (52:09):
I will admit I've watched it a couple of times.
Oh really, Yes, exactly. I think it's a good pick
me up, particularly when partisan politics are you know, depressing everyone.
Speaker 4 (52:20):
It's good. It's just a happy there's always a happy ending.
I appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (52:23):
Time there's you have an ability to go to a
space you're wholly unfamiliar with and be challenged. It's not
just entertaining, but it you know, clears the cob webs exactly, exactly,
really interesting. So we talked about you as a mentor.
Who were your mentors who helped shape your career?
Speaker 5 (52:42):
So I would say I feel very lucky when I
was most of my career, when I was in Deck
Capital Markets, I worked for a woman who ran DCM
at the time, and then she went on to do
different things at the firm who was very much a
sponsor mentor.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
For me overall.
Speaker 5 (53:00):
And it's just, you know, over time she's retired now
from JPMorgan but sort of you know, become a friend.
But I think that's where I really, I think learned
and embraced kind of just this concept of attracting talent,
retaining talent, helping to kind of bring up the next
generation of women is a responsibility of senior people. And
(53:21):
she really demonstrated that, and certainly I took that to heart.
Speaker 2 (53:25):
So since you are a reader, let's talk about books.
What are your favorites and what are you reading right now?
Speaker 5 (53:32):
So favorites are hard, but what I'm what I'm reading
right now? So I actually just finished over the holidays.
I tend to alternate between fiction and nonfiction, okay, because
I think both are important. Finished Chasing Hope, the Nicholas
christoph book is a Foreign Correspondent for The Times, which
is interesting. I finished a biography of Alexeira Monsky, who's
(53:52):
a choreographer. I don't think many many listening to this
podcast may find that book interesting.
Speaker 4 (53:57):
But I did a new.
Speaker 5 (54:02):
Fiction by Michael Cunningham called Day. So those are all
really good. Some of my favorite authors Isabelle Ending Dave Edgars.
Speaker 4 (54:12):
That's what I would say.
Speaker 2 (54:13):
Edgars is kind of funny if I.
Speaker 5 (54:17):
And he has funny titles which I love. Heartbreaking Work
of Staggering Genius one of his first books.
Speaker 4 (54:21):
Love that book.
Speaker 2 (54:22):
Yeah, so we're down to our last two questions. And
this is a broader question than I asked earlier. What
sort of advice would you give to a recent college
grad interested in a career in either banking or finance.
Speaker 5 (54:39):
I think to make sure that they embrace risks taking.
And I say that because maybe just because I myself,
maybe I'm a little bit risk averse. But I think
over the course of your career, you have the opportunity
often to do many different things, and a lot of
times people are afraid to sort of leave their current
(55:01):
group and do something different, and it just opens up
a whole world of possibility. So I think sort of
taking a little bit more risk than you might naturally
do is always good advice.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
And when you have no spouse, no mortgage, no kids,
that's the time full on your face because you get up,
dust yourself off and start over again. It's funny how
when you're a few years past being young, that's obvious,
but at the time it doesn't feel that way.
Speaker 4 (55:28):
Well, and it feels like such a big ust.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
Got it's so risky, right exactly. And our final question,
what do you know about the world of banking and
investment and growth companies today that would have been really
helpful twenty five or so years ago.
Speaker 4 (55:43):
That's a really good question.
Speaker 2 (55:45):
And it's not I should have worn in video when
it was fifty cents. It's like, what philosophically would have
been useful to know that you eventually figured out.
Speaker 5 (55:55):
I think because I started in the investment bank and
then by definition was really working with primarily larger size companies.
I think I know, as I kind of mentioned earlier,
understanding how different it is and the fact that you
have the ability to make an even bigger difference for
a smaller size company that needs that sort of trusted
advisor even more, I think it would would be sort
(56:19):
of good to know, right because it is. I think
financial services overall, you have the ability to take on
a lot more responsibility at an early age than other industries.
But I think again, the ability to kind of influence
and advise an early stage company is just incredibly rewarding
given the limited resources staff that they have.
Speaker 2 (56:38):
Melissa, this has been absolutely fascinating. Thank you for being
so generous with your time. We have been speaking with
Melissa Smith. She is co head of commercial banking for
JP Morgan. If you enjoy this conversation, we'll be sure
to check out any of the past five hundred or
so we've done over the previous ten years. You can
(57:01):
find those at iTunes, Spotify, Bloomberg YouTube, wherever you find
your favorite podcasts, and be sure to check out my
new book, How Not To Invest, coming March seventeenth, wherever
you get your favorite books from.
Speaker 3 (57:17):
I would be remiss if.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
I did not thank the Crack team that helps put
these conversations together each week. Sarah Livesey is my audio engineer.
Anna Luke is my producer. Sean Russo is my researcher.
Sage Bauman is the head of Podcasts at Bloomberg. I'm
Barry Rutults. You've been listening to Masters in Business on
Bloomberg Radio