March 6, 2025 • 21 mins
One of President Trump’s first actions after beginning his second term in office, was to take aim at USAID, which doled out $40 billion in foreign assistance each year. Last week the administration cancelled 90% of its funding awards - the bulk of which are focused on projects in Africa such as tackling HIV and tuberculosis as well as responding to poverty and famine. In this special episode of the Next Africa Podcast we go across the continent as Jennifer Zabasajja speaks to Bloomberg reporters Nduka Orjinmo, Simon Marks and Janice Kew to hear about the impact these cuts are having on the ground and what might fill the gap that the US has left behind.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's something that should have been done a long time ago.
Went crazy during the Biden administrative They went totally crazy.
What they were doing and the money they were giving
to people that shouldn't be getting it into agencies and
others that shouldn't be getting it was a shame, tremendous fraud.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
America will become great again if they continue to support
the poor people, those who are in need of especially
the medical care. That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Talk to the average American, do they want to see
people dying because of assistance cut off? You know, there
would have been a very clear and particular way to
reform the foreign assistance sector.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
This suspension was immediately effectively, so that means if yesterday
your employees had to come back the following day to office,
you had to stop them because you had no money
to continue with them.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
At the core of this, this is about an anti
rights agenda. This is not about the economics of making
countries such as South Africa and other African countries more independent.
This is a direct attack on the humanity of LGBTQI,
people of women, of girls, of children, and other marginalized groups.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
One of President Trump's first actions after taking office was
to take aim at USAID, and last week, more than
ninety percent of the agency's activities in Africa were told
to seize, bringing an end to decades of programs tackling
poverty and diseases like HIV, tuberculosis, and ebola. In this
(01:50):
special episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we hear from
our reporters from all corners of the continent about what
impact this decision is having and how countries and AID
organizations are responding.
Speaker 8 (02:03):
The future is uncertain because the government of ken actually
announced that they only have stoke for six months, so if
they don't do anything right now, it's going to become
a public health exhastin.
Speaker 7 (02:19):
I'm Jennifer Zabasadja, and this is the Next Africa Podcast,
bringing you one story each week from the continent driving
the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg
can provide.
Speaker 9 (02:35):
We start this week in West Africa.
Speaker 7 (02:38):
Over the past decade, the US has provided more than
seven point eight billion dollars in aid to Nigeria, supporting
everything from agriculture to HIV medication.
Speaker 9 (02:48):
But now this may all stop.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
The Nigerian Foreign Minister Yusuf Tugar gave his reaction to
Bloomberg earlier this week.
Speaker 10 (02:56):
Nigeria has never been reliant on AID. What we have
always sought for is strategic solutions to the issue of
risk so that we can partner with countries and mitigate risk.
So what we were taking in in terms of development
AID is really not that significant and it's being covered.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
So what does this mean for Nigeria. Our reporter Nduka
or Jinmo is based in a Buja. I started by
asking him what USAID actually funded in the country.
Speaker 11 (03:30):
When you look across the country, you see the activities
of USAID, you know cat across. So you go to
some villages in South and Northern Nigeria and then you
see potholes that have been built by the USAID. But
I think they are most prominent interventions were in health
and this could across malaria, tuberculosis and most importantly you know,
(03:55):
walk around HIV and AIDS. Nigeria has the most people
living with the condition in western Central Africa, and that
funding went along when providing affordable treatment for them, went along,
when providing you know, things like the kind of support
services that they need. In funding angels that really worked
(04:18):
with them. There's an agency in Nigeria that is basically
dedicated to work around HI Young AIDS and that agency
said ninety percent of their funding over the years came
from USAI. So it just it shows you how immense
you know that that contribution was.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
But at the same time, and Duka, we've been hearing
from some Nigerian officials saying that they've actually budgeted extra
money to fill the shortfall that now exists. Is it
enough to actually make an impact?
Speaker 11 (04:50):
Well, the National Assembly they bought their two undred million
dollars to cover what they see, you know, the wholes
in the sectors that will be left by the USAID.
If that is enough, it's what we don't know what
since we begin to implement it. But my first instinct
to say it's not likely going to be enough. And
(05:10):
because there are several at of the agencies of government
that have not really reported to the Bilder Ministry how
much of their programs be impacted by the wither of AID.
So I'll give you an example. The Nigeria Bureau Statistics,
they do lots of the surveys around the economy. Is
that the inflation GDP on employment a chunk of the
(05:34):
funding that the gets comes from usa I D. Now
it's not a direct funding, so it comes from the
don't know agencies that have also received some funding from
from usa ID. So I guess these agencies have not
really calculated how much they will be losing. But I
don't think two d million dollars is going to plug
that hole. But what it means is that Nigeria at
(05:56):
least has a fall back option, especially in that's critical
sect of health where the government could not afford to
let most of those programs in the health sector in
all threes because the USCI defund and have been posted
well and.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
We know from the pandemic.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
I mean, you can plug a gap for for so long, right,
you don't know what is coming ahead. So what is
at risk if some of these programs and if some
of these stop gap measures are not actually sustainable.
Speaker 11 (06:24):
Lots lots of at risk then and it's it's hard
to imagine what the cautions would be. So you're talking
about HIV and AIDS and Najeria has never really got
a grasp of the situation here where you still have,
you know, despite these interventions, you still have you know,
(06:46):
cases that keep going up. And then you look at malaria,
which is quite endemic here, and then things like tuberculosis
that's going to be quite devastating on the population, and
all forget a crusier part of this is the role
of proverty in all these situations. Most people who depended
on those services provided by US idea, that's that funding
(07:08):
where poor people, you know, in the rural areas, and
so imagine now they have to provide those drugs for themselves.
Imagine also you know that hospitals that the are used
of visiting in the neighborhoods shot down because they no
longer have that funding. So those consequences further down the
line can be there and unless something is done, I
mean in the shape of more funding either from outside
(07:33):
ordining drank governments basically redirected morphics resources to to those hosts.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
Now and Andreka, you're you're obviously on the ground there.
What are people telling you? What are some of the
concerns that they're expressing at this point, given how fast
things have been moving since we heard aid was being pulled.
Speaker 11 (07:51):
I've heard from people working in Manangeria's northeast regions. So
this is the area that has been affected by you know,
years of fighting insurgency and islam Mist insurgencies in that
in that region. So that's Grouno States, that's your base states,
parts of Adamara State and that's where you have you know,
the bulk of these interventions and heads from people who
(08:14):
are working at several UN agencies who've had to you know,
close certain departments, who've had to close, setting units, setting
programs that they are they are working on. And someone
working in the agricultural sector was saying, look, Nigeria was going.
Speaker 9 (08:33):
To face forwarding security this year.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
That will lead to millions of people, you know, facing
starvation because there was a huge flooding last year that
destroyed lots of farmblance in the north and some of
these programs from this AID was going to close that hole.
And now this has been caught, you know, it's going
to get worse.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
And you could hear.
Speaker 11 (08:56):
The concern, the deep concern in this person's voice. There's
no help coming from anywhere, you know, for these, for
these and agency, which is quite sad. So you think
of people, millions of people you know that have been
affected by years of four and the only help that
they knew, we know, was it coming in via in
all the American people, all that is now gone and
(09:17):
there's no immediate help coming to their.
Speaker 9 (09:19):
Rescue to East Africa now.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
As well as funding health programs, USAID was responding to
the civil war in Sudan, funding emergency kitchens across the
country which may now need to close. Our reporter Simon
Marx is based in Nairobi, and he told me what
the immediate impacts of the cuts have been.
Speaker 12 (09:40):
Well, well, obviously a number of weeks into the eight
cuts that the US government has implemented, and they've been
very widespread in impacting a whole range of different health
programs from HIV treatment to tuberculosis, to Malay area to
(10:01):
vaccine research, to the ability of US officials to engage
in the spread of ebola in neighboring Uganda, and all
in all, I would say that there are a number
of NGOs who get direct funding from the US who
are looking to, you know, find find money from elsewhere.
(10:22):
They've they've had their funds frozen and so programs have stopped.
As well as that countries like Sudan where there is
a famine, terrible famine unfolding in many, many different regions
in NGO's soup kitchens that got money from the US,
for example, have have stopped all over the country. So
it's really aggravated the lives for many.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
And Simon, there's been a bit of conflicting news about
whether partially some of the aid has returned or not.
But if it doesn't in fact return to the levels
that we saw before, how are people who you speak to,
how are they rec bonding to it.
Speaker 12 (11:01):
Yeah, indeed, so as you said that some key sort
of life saving funding, there has been news come out
that this could come back, that there are indeed waivers.
I'm not aware of anything in Kenyawear money's come back
initially because people are just freezing while they see the
(11:21):
final decision at the end of this ninety day period.
If that happens, I think governments are going to have
to shift gears. They're going to have to find money
from elsewhere, either inside their own budgets or they're going
to have to go looking to other countries to fill
the void. And this has drawn out a debate locally
about obviously just US influence in general and soft power,
(11:43):
the ability of the US to sort of chip in
on key areas such as health and education.
Speaker 9 (11:49):
You mentioned funding.
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Do some of these governments have the capacity in their
budgets to fund some of these programs or will they
look to external partners, as you say, to do the
bulk of to fill the book of the gaps that
may exist.
Speaker 12 (12:05):
Well, in the case of Kenya, for example, the government
has said, you know that this is.
Speaker 11 (12:09):
A wake up call.
Speaker 12 (12:11):
It's actually also an opportunity for the government to really,
I guess, grab the bull by the horns and you know,
fund its own health sector more. But the reality is
that it's a heavily indebted country. There is a huge
amount of annual revenues going out just to paying off
interest on debt. We've seen protests recently in Kenya that
(12:35):
even managed to storm the National Parliament as a result.
So there isn't really much wiggle room for a country
like Kenya. And I think that's just one example, you know,
and Keny is one of the more performing economies in
the region.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
This is a life saving situation and we cannot sit
and wait and begin on human life. So for us,
it's about the human life, the lives that we need
to save, so something needs to be done argently.
Speaker 9 (13:03):
And finally, Simon su Dan.
Speaker 7 (13:05):
You mentioned that what could this mean for the country
if in fact aid does not return in the way
that it was there before.
Speaker 12 (13:14):
So Dan is obviously at the very sort of bottom
of the pyramid in terms of the absolute necessity right
for international aid. I think there is a growing famine.
The number of regions suffering from famine is growing quarter
by quarter, and the US is a massive component of
(13:36):
that aid, either through the World With Program or through
other NGOs present in the country. So it's a devastating blow.
I think there's a lot of hope right that once
certain officials come in Africa, officials related to the State
Department come in and start you know, actually talking to
(13:56):
regional officials, that maybe some of responding can turn. But
you know, Africa is not the biggest focus of the
US administration, as other religions that are that are getting
more focus at the moment, and so we're still waiting
for that to happen.
Speaker 7 (14:11):
So it's still it's unclear how this could play out
for the Sudanese people at this point.
Speaker 12 (14:16):
Yes, unfortunately, you know, one of the one of the
really successful organizations to bring food to people in Sudan
were this network of suit kitchens and and they've just
literally stopped. They were dotted about in rural areas also
in Khartoum, the capital, a lot of people who relied
on them, you know, thousands and thousands of people.
Speaker 9 (14:39):
Stay with us.
Speaker 7 (14:40):
When we come back, we'll hear from our Healthcare and
Consumer reporter, JENSQ on what the reaction has been from
the healthcare community and how they might fill the shortfall.
Speaker 9 (14:50):
We'll be right back. Welcome back today.
Speaker 7 (14:56):
In a special episode of the Next Africa podcast, we're
focusing on the impact of the proposed near total closure
of billions of dollars of USAID projects in Africa. JENSQ
is our Healthcare and Consumer reporter based in Johannesburg and
has been covering this for well over a decade.
Speaker 9 (15:14):
I started by asking her what role did USAID play
in Africa.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Broadly, it was responsible for development assistance and the programs
were wide and varied across thousands of initiatives in public health,
disaster relief, socioeconomic developments, environmental protection, democratic governance, and education.
Some of the key projects included ones around health research
working to PRID solutions to HIV, as well as food
(15:41):
and security, which is a big issue on the consonants.
Speaker 7 (15:44):
So talk about the impact so far that you've seen
from the suspension of some of these programs, Where is
it being felt the most.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
The recipients of this money have halted work and find stuff,
and that abrupt manner has devastating consequences, especially for people
living with HIV as well as for other key and
vulnerable populations. Desimon two to Health Foundation Chief executive Officer
Linda Gail Becker says South Africa stands to lose twenty
five years worth of HIV investment if government can't pull
(16:14):
the gaps, with more than five hundred thousand HIV related
deaths expected to occur over the next decade because of
the terminations. A US funded HIV vaccine file, where South
African Medical Research Council had teamed up with scientists from
eight countries on the continents, has also stopped because of
the USID moves. And you know, from these examples, it's
(16:37):
very clear that the impacts is really really wide reaching,
and it's not just that the funds aren't there. It's
the manner with which it's been done, the abruptness of
it that is really key and very very destructive.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
So then how concerned are some of these aid and
health agencies that you listen to time and time again,
how concerned are they about this?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
They're very concerned. No one knows where the funding will
come from and whether any of it will arrive in time,
and it's really quite overwhelming. I mean, when intricate and
interlinked programs are halted so abruptly, even if the money
comes in from elsewhere, it's hard to restart and build
up again, not least because certain programs are only successful
if patients actually come into the clinic or the facility
(17:21):
and get their mets. We saw this with COVID nineteen
when people were told not to come in, they didn't,
and then it really takes time to get people back in. Later,
we've seen this sort of the rookly effect of that
with vaccinations across the continent. A lot of vaccination programs,
routine vaccination programs for children specifically halted during COVID nineteen
(17:43):
because people were told only to come into a hospital clinic,
you know, in an emergency effectively, and so these things
really do take time to get back up and running.
There's also a lot of distress that comes in when
things are halted so abruptly. It takes a lot of
work working with people on the ground in communities to
(18:03):
build that trust, and when something like this happens, that
trust is often destroyed, and so people just to go
back to the vaccination programs, reteen vaccination programs for children parents.
It isn't just that you have to make up the
backlog because certain shots have been missed at Milestone Ages,
(18:23):
but there's also distrust issue and people wonder if it's
really necessary and it's just very, very disruptive.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
Is that how people on the ground would describe it
to you, jen as or are describing it to you.
Speaker 9 (18:35):
Disruptive? I mean, what else are they telling you?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Chiotic would be another word.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yvettrafael, who I interviewed last year for a story about
HIV and aging, heads up a South African advocacy group
for the prevention of HIV and AIDS. She said last
week that the Trump administration, according to her organization, has
globally declared war on the rights to health in South Africa.
Health is a right and there are scores of people
(19:01):
who are describing the news of the Holtz's chaos as
the organizations have told the bulk of their colleagues, they
no longer have jobs. There are scores of people get
who were getting regular mades and already have no supplies
for life threatening diseases, and they've got no idea where
or when to get more for them. It's quite literally
feels like a death sentence. There was a briefing held
(19:24):
last week when the news started flowing through and these
emails that come for our region on the African continent,
a lot of these emails that come overnight, and people
from these various organizations, thousands of them were trying to
get onto this briefing. They actually had to give the
links to people afterwards because so many people were trying
to get on and the people who spoke, many of
(19:47):
them were incredibly emotional. I mean on the verge of tears.
It is that devastating for people. It's that real.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
So Janice, what is the likelihood we'll see someone else
at least try to fill the gaps that USA Ideas
now is now leaving Africa.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
CDC says that they have had some money come in
from Japan and Korea. There is an expectation that the
Middle East might step in to some degree. A lot
of the billionaires across the globe who have philothropic branches
or organizations are trying to see what they can do.
But I think even for them it's quite overwhelming the
(20:24):
amount of money, at least from the Africa CDC points
what's been offered so far from Japan and Korea. They
would never say that it's insignificant, because it's not. But
it's really just the top of the iceberg. And so
to really fill the gaps fully is going to take
a lot of work. Again, these programs didn't happen overnight.
(20:44):
This amount of money wasn't one big lump sum at
the start of something. It's been incrementally added over years
and years, and so it is very difficult to fully
fund those gaps, and it's difficult to do it rush.
You know, had friends been withdrawn in more ugly mena,
(21:05):
but definitely would have been devastating.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
And thanks so much to our reporters Nduka or Jinmo,
Simon Marx and jenis Q. You can read all of
their coverage and reporting on the suspension of USAID programs
across Bloomberg platforms now, including the Next African Newsletter.
Speaker 9 (21:24):
Will put a link to that in the show notes.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubayo.
Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you
usually get your podcasts.
Speaker 9 (21:39):
I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.
Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
It's something that should have been done a long time ago.
Went crazy during the Biden administrative They went totally crazy.
What they were doing and the money they were giving
to people that shouldn't be getting it into agencies and
others that shouldn't be getting it was a shame, tremendous fraud.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
America will become great again if they continue to support
the poor people, those who are in need of especially
the medical care. That's what I think.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
Talk to the average American, do they want to see
people dying because of assistance cut off? You know, there
would have been a very clear and particular way to
reform the foreign assistance sector.
Speaker 5 (00:52):
This suspension was immediately effectively, so that means if yesterday
your employees had to come back the following day to office,
you had to stop them because you had no money
to continue with them.
Speaker 6 (01:06):
At the core of this, this is about an anti
rights agenda. This is not about the economics of making
countries such as South Africa and other African countries more independent.
This is a direct attack on the humanity of LGBTQI,
people of women, of girls, of children, and other marginalized groups.
Speaker 7 (01:30):
One of President Trump's first actions after taking office was
to take aim at USAID, and last week, more than
ninety percent of the agency's activities in Africa were told
to seize, bringing an end to decades of programs tackling
poverty and diseases like HIV, tuberculosis, and ebola. In this
(01:50):
special episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we hear from
our reporters from all corners of the continent about what
impact this decision is having and how countries and AID
organizations are responding.
Speaker 8 (02:03):
The future is uncertain because the government of ken actually
announced that they only have stoke for six months, so if
they don't do anything right now, it's going to become
a public health exhastin.
Speaker 7 (02:19):
I'm Jennifer Zabasadja, and this is the Next Africa Podcast,
bringing you one story each week from the continent driving
the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg
can provide.
Speaker 9 (02:35):
We start this week in West Africa.
Speaker 7 (02:38):
Over the past decade, the US has provided more than
seven point eight billion dollars in aid to Nigeria, supporting
everything from agriculture to HIV medication.
Speaker 9 (02:48):
But now this may all stop.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
The Nigerian Foreign Minister Yusuf Tugar gave his reaction to
Bloomberg earlier this week.
Speaker 10 (02:56):
Nigeria has never been reliant on AID. What we have
always sought for is strategic solutions to the issue of
risk so that we can partner with countries and mitigate risk.
So what we were taking in in terms of development
AID is really not that significant and it's being covered.
Speaker 7 (03:18):
So what does this mean for Nigeria. Our reporter Nduka
or Jinmo is based in a Buja. I started by
asking him what USAID actually funded in the country.
Speaker 11 (03:30):
When you look across the country, you see the activities
of USAID, you know cat across. So you go to
some villages in South and Northern Nigeria and then you
see potholes that have been built by the USAID. But
I think they are most prominent interventions were in health
and this could across malaria, tuberculosis and most importantly you know,
(03:55):
walk around HIV and AIDS. Nigeria has the most people
living with the condition in western Central Africa, and that
funding went along when providing affordable treatment for them, went along,
when providing you know, things like the kind of support
services that they need. In funding angels that really worked
(04:18):
with them. There's an agency in Nigeria that is basically
dedicated to work around HI Young AIDS and that agency
said ninety percent of their funding over the years came
from USAI. So it just it shows you how immense
you know that that contribution was.
Speaker 7 (04:35):
But at the same time, and Duka, we've been hearing
from some Nigerian officials saying that they've actually budgeted extra
money to fill the shortfall that now exists. Is it
enough to actually make an impact?
Speaker 11 (04:50):
Well, the National Assembly they bought their two undred million
dollars to cover what they see, you know, the wholes
in the sectors that will be left by the USAID.
If that is enough, it's what we don't know what
since we begin to implement it. But my first instinct
to say it's not likely going to be enough. And
(05:10):
because there are several at of the agencies of government
that have not really reported to the Bilder Ministry how
much of their programs be impacted by the wither of AID.
So I'll give you an example. The Nigeria Bureau Statistics,
they do lots of the surveys around the economy. Is
that the inflation GDP on employment a chunk of the
(05:34):
funding that the gets comes from usa I D. Now
it's not a direct funding, so it comes from the
don't know agencies that have also received some funding from
from usa ID. So I guess these agencies have not
really calculated how much they will be losing. But I
don't think two d million dollars is going to plug
that hole. But what it means is that Nigeria at
(05:56):
least has a fall back option, especially in that's critical
sect of health where the government could not afford to
let most of those programs in the health sector in
all threes because the USCI defund and have been posted
well and.
Speaker 9 (06:11):
We know from the pandemic.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
I mean, you can plug a gap for for so long, right,
you don't know what is coming ahead. So what is
at risk if some of these programs and if some
of these stop gap measures are not actually sustainable.
Speaker 11 (06:24):
Lots lots of at risk then and it's it's hard
to imagine what the cautions would be. So you're talking
about HIV and AIDS and Najeria has never really got
a grasp of the situation here where you still have,
you know, despite these interventions, you still have you know,
(06:46):
cases that keep going up. And then you look at malaria,
which is quite endemic here, and then things like tuberculosis
that's going to be quite devastating on the population, and
all forget a crusier part of this is the role
of proverty in all these situations. Most people who depended
on those services provided by US idea, that's that funding
(07:08):
where poor people, you know, in the rural areas, and
so imagine now they have to provide those drugs for themselves.
Imagine also you know that hospitals that the are used
of visiting in the neighborhoods shot down because they no
longer have that funding. So those consequences further down the
line can be there and unless something is done, I
mean in the shape of more funding either from outside
(07:33):
ordining drank governments basically redirected morphics resources to to those hosts.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
Now and Andreka, you're you're obviously on the ground there.
What are people telling you? What are some of the
concerns that they're expressing at this point, given how fast
things have been moving since we heard aid was being pulled.
Speaker 11 (07:51):
I've heard from people working in Manangeria's northeast regions. So
this is the area that has been affected by you know,
years of fighting insurgency and islam Mist insurgencies in that
in that region. So that's Grouno States, that's your base states,
parts of Adamara State and that's where you have you know,
the bulk of these interventions and heads from people who
(08:14):
are working at several UN agencies who've had to you know,
close certain departments, who've had to close, setting units, setting
programs that they are they are working on. And someone
working in the agricultural sector was saying, look, Nigeria was going.
Speaker 9 (08:33):
To face forwarding security this year.
Speaker 11 (08:37):
That will lead to millions of people, you know, facing
starvation because there was a huge flooding last year that
destroyed lots of farmblance in the north and some of
these programs from this AID was going to close that hole.
And now this has been caught, you know, it's going
to get worse.
Speaker 9 (08:54):
And you could hear.
Speaker 11 (08:56):
The concern, the deep concern in this person's voice. There's
no help coming from anywhere, you know, for these, for
these and agency, which is quite sad. So you think
of people, millions of people you know that have been
affected by years of four and the only help that
they knew, we know, was it coming in via in
all the American people, all that is now gone and
(09:17):
there's no immediate help coming to their.
Speaker 9 (09:19):
Rescue to East Africa now.
Speaker 7 (09:23):
As well as funding health programs, USAID was responding to
the civil war in Sudan, funding emergency kitchens across the
country which may now need to close. Our reporter Simon
Marx is based in Nairobi, and he told me what
the immediate impacts of the cuts have been.
Speaker 12 (09:40):
Well, well, obviously a number of weeks into the eight
cuts that the US government has implemented, and they've been
very widespread in impacting a whole range of different health
programs from HIV treatment to tuberculosis, to Malay area to
(10:01):
vaccine research, to the ability of US officials to engage
in the spread of ebola in neighboring Uganda, and all
in all, I would say that there are a number
of NGOs who get direct funding from the US who
are looking to, you know, find find money from elsewhere.
(10:22):
They've they've had their funds frozen and so programs have stopped.
As well as that countries like Sudan where there is
a famine, terrible famine unfolding in many, many different regions
in NGO's soup kitchens that got money from the US,
for example, have have stopped all over the country. So
it's really aggravated the lives for many.
Speaker 7 (10:43):
And Simon, there's been a bit of conflicting news about
whether partially some of the aid has returned or not.
But if it doesn't in fact return to the levels
that we saw before, how are people who you speak to,
how are they rec bonding to it.
Speaker 12 (11:01):
Yeah, indeed, so as you said that some key sort
of life saving funding, there has been news come out
that this could come back, that there are indeed waivers.
I'm not aware of anything in Kenyawear money's come back
initially because people are just freezing while they see the
(11:21):
final decision at the end of this ninety day period.
If that happens, I think governments are going to have
to shift gears. They're going to have to find money
from elsewhere, either inside their own budgets or they're going
to have to go looking to other countries to fill
the void. And this has drawn out a debate locally
about obviously just US influence in general and soft power,
(11:43):
the ability of the US to sort of chip in
on key areas such as health and education.
Speaker 9 (11:49):
You mentioned funding.
Speaker 7 (11:50):
Do some of these governments have the capacity in their
budgets to fund some of these programs or will they
look to external partners, as you say, to do the
bulk of to fill the book of the gaps that
may exist.
Speaker 12 (12:05):
Well, in the case of Kenya, for example, the government
has said, you know that this is.
Speaker 11 (12:09):
A wake up call.
Speaker 12 (12:11):
It's actually also an opportunity for the government to really,
I guess, grab the bull by the horns and you know,
fund its own health sector more. But the reality is
that it's a heavily indebted country. There is a huge
amount of annual revenues going out just to paying off
interest on debt. We've seen protests recently in Kenya that
(12:35):
even managed to storm the National Parliament as a result.
So there isn't really much wiggle room for a country
like Kenya. And I think that's just one example, you know,
and Keny is one of the more performing economies in
the region.
Speaker 8 (12:49):
This is a life saving situation and we cannot sit
and wait and begin on human life. So for us,
it's about the human life, the lives that we need
to save, so something needs to be done argently.
Speaker 9 (13:03):
And finally, Simon su Dan.
Speaker 7 (13:05):
You mentioned that what could this mean for the country
if in fact aid does not return in the way
that it was there before.
Speaker 12 (13:14):
So Dan is obviously at the very sort of bottom
of the pyramid in terms of the absolute necessity right
for international aid. I think there is a growing famine.
The number of regions suffering from famine is growing quarter
by quarter, and the US is a massive component of
(13:36):
that aid, either through the World With Program or through
other NGOs present in the country. So it's a devastating blow.
I think there's a lot of hope right that once
certain officials come in Africa, officials related to the State
Department come in and start you know, actually talking to
(13:56):
regional officials, that maybe some of responding can turn. But
you know, Africa is not the biggest focus of the
US administration, as other religions that are that are getting
more focus at the moment, and so we're still waiting
for that to happen.
Speaker 7 (14:11):
So it's still it's unclear how this could play out
for the Sudanese people at this point.
Speaker 12 (14:16):
Yes, unfortunately, you know, one of the one of the
really successful organizations to bring food to people in Sudan
were this network of suit kitchens and and they've just
literally stopped. They were dotted about in rural areas also
in Khartoum, the capital, a lot of people who relied
on them, you know, thousands and thousands of people.
Speaker 9 (14:39):
Stay with us.
Speaker 7 (14:40):
When we come back, we'll hear from our Healthcare and
Consumer reporter, JENSQ on what the reaction has been from
the healthcare community and how they might fill the shortfall.
Speaker 9 (14:50):
We'll be right back. Welcome back today.
Speaker 7 (14:56):
In a special episode of the Next Africa podcast, we're
focusing on the impact of the proposed near total closure
of billions of dollars of USAID projects in Africa. JENSQ
is our Healthcare and Consumer reporter based in Johannesburg and
has been covering this for well over a decade.
Speaker 9 (15:14):
I started by asking her what role did USAID play
in Africa.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Broadly, it was responsible for development assistance and the programs
were wide and varied across thousands of initiatives in public health,
disaster relief, socioeconomic developments, environmental protection, democratic governance, and education.
Some of the key projects included ones around health research
working to PRID solutions to HIV, as well as food
(15:41):
and security, which is a big issue on the consonants.
Speaker 7 (15:44):
So talk about the impact so far that you've seen
from the suspension of some of these programs, Where is
it being felt the most.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
The recipients of this money have halted work and find stuff,
and that abrupt manner has devastating consequences, especially for people
living with HIV as well as for other key and
vulnerable populations. Desimon two to Health Foundation Chief executive Officer
Linda Gail Becker says South Africa stands to lose twenty
five years worth of HIV investment if government can't pull
(16:14):
the gaps, with more than five hundred thousand HIV related
deaths expected to occur over the next decade because of
the terminations. A US funded HIV vaccine file, where South
African Medical Research Council had teamed up with scientists from
eight countries on the continents, has also stopped because of
the USID moves. And you know, from these examples, it's
(16:37):
very clear that the impacts is really really wide reaching,
and it's not just that the funds aren't there. It's
the manner with which it's been done, the abruptness of
it that is really key and very very destructive.
Speaker 7 (16:51):
So then how concerned are some of these aid and
health agencies that you listen to time and time again,
how concerned are they about this?
Speaker 1 (16:59):
They're very concerned. No one knows where the funding will
come from and whether any of it will arrive in time,
and it's really quite overwhelming. I mean, when intricate and
interlinked programs are halted so abruptly, even if the money
comes in from elsewhere, it's hard to restart and build
up again, not least because certain programs are only successful
if patients actually come into the clinic or the facility
(17:21):
and get their mets. We saw this with COVID nineteen
when people were told not to come in, they didn't,
and then it really takes time to get people back in. Later,
we've seen this sort of the rookly effect of that
with vaccinations across the continent. A lot of vaccination programs,
routine vaccination programs for children specifically halted during COVID nineteen
(17:43):
because people were told only to come into a hospital clinic,
you know, in an emergency effectively, and so these things
really do take time to get back up and running.
There's also a lot of distress that comes in when
things are halted so abruptly. It takes a lot of
work working with people on the ground in communities to
(18:03):
build that trust, and when something like this happens, that
trust is often destroyed, and so people just to go
back to the vaccination programs, reteen vaccination programs for children parents.
It isn't just that you have to make up the
backlog because certain shots have been missed at Milestone Ages,
(18:23):
but there's also distrust issue and people wonder if it's
really necessary and it's just very, very disruptive.
Speaker 7 (18:30):
Is that how people on the ground would describe it
to you, jen as or are describing it to you.
Speaker 9 (18:35):
Disruptive? I mean, what else are they telling you?
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Chiotic would be another word.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Yvettrafael, who I interviewed last year for a story about
HIV and aging, heads up a South African advocacy group
for the prevention of HIV and AIDS. She said last
week that the Trump administration, according to her organization, has
globally declared war on the rights to health in South Africa.
Health is a right and there are scores of people
(19:01):
who are describing the news of the Holtz's chaos as
the organizations have told the bulk of their colleagues, they
no longer have jobs. There are scores of people get
who were getting regular mades and already have no supplies
for life threatening diseases, and they've got no idea where
or when to get more for them. It's quite literally
feels like a death sentence. There was a briefing held
(19:24):
last week when the news started flowing through and these
emails that come for our region on the African continent,
a lot of these emails that come overnight, and people
from these various organizations, thousands of them were trying to
get onto this briefing. They actually had to give the
links to people afterwards because so many people were trying
to get on and the people who spoke, many of
(19:47):
them were incredibly emotional. I mean on the verge of tears.
It is that devastating for people. It's that real.
Speaker 7 (19:55):
So Janice, what is the likelihood we'll see someone else
at least try to fill the gaps that USA Ideas
now is now leaving Africa.
Speaker 1 (20:03):
CDC says that they have had some money come in
from Japan and Korea. There is an expectation that the
Middle East might step in to some degree. A lot
of the billionaires across the globe who have philothropic branches
or organizations are trying to see what they can do.
But I think even for them it's quite overwhelming the
(20:24):
amount of money, at least from the Africa CDC points
what's been offered so far from Japan and Korea. They
would never say that it's insignificant, because it's not. But
it's really just the top of the iceberg. And so
to really fill the gaps fully is going to take
a lot of work. Again, these programs didn't happen overnight.
(20:44):
This amount of money wasn't one big lump sum at
the start of something. It's been incrementally added over years
and years, and so it is very difficult to fully
fund those gaps, and it's difficult to do it rush.
You know, had friends been withdrawn in more ugly mena,
(21:05):
but definitely would have been devastating.
Speaker 7 (21:09):
And thanks so much to our reporters Nduka or Jinmo,
Simon Marx and jenis Q. You can read all of
their coverage and reporting on the suspension of USAID programs
across Bloomberg platforms now, including the Next African Newsletter.
Speaker 9 (21:24):
Will put a link to that in the show notes.
Speaker 7 (21:29):
This program was produced by Adrian Bradley and Tiwa Adubayo.
Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you
usually get your podcasts.
Speaker 9 (21:39):
I'm Jennifer's Abasaja. Thanks as always for listening.
Host
Jennifer Zabasajja
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