October 21, 2025 • 46 mins
Tepid demand, weak rates and rising costs are just some of the challenges facing the North American truckload market. Carriers and drivers also face subpar infrastructure, rising fraud and stricter emission standards. In this Talking Transports podcast, Jim Ward, president of the Truckload Carriers Association, joins Lee Klaskow, Bloomberg Intelligence’s senior transportation and logistics analyst, to discuss how the trade group is working to ease these burdens. They also discuss how Trump administration actions affect non-domiciled commercial driver licenses and English proficiency enforcement. Ward touches on electric and autonomous vehicles, road user fees, parking shortages and his pending retirement.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi everyone, this is Lee Claskal when We're Talking Transports.
Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,
Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Logistics SANA. Let's at Bloomberg Intelligence,
Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts
and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement
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(00:21):
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the Bloomberg terminal LinkedIn are on x AT Logistics lead
(00:41):
onto our program. I'm very excited to have Jim Ward,
the president of the Truckload Carrier Association or TCA, a
position he's held since April twenty twenty two. Jim retired
from dm Bawman as CEO and president. His career Bauman
spanned it over twenty two years. Welcome to the podcast.
(01:02):
Jim's great to have you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, Lee, thank you very much and it's a pleasure
to be with you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And you know, the Truckload Carrier Association, can you talk
about the industry group? You know, what is your I
guess your main mission.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, TCA with offices at five five five East Braddock
Road and Allegianda, Virginia. Well, we're basically the only national
trade association who's collective, sole focused is the truckload segment
of the trucking industry. The association represents drive in, refrigerated
tanker and railroannomotive carriers operating in the forty eight contiguous
(01:37):
US states Alaska, we have members of Alaska, Mexico, and Canada.
So as a significant part of the industry with over
and I know you know this, I half a million
companies operating means of power units within the United States.
TCA and it's truck and company members regularly comment on
matters affecting the national transportation industries, common interest and potential impact.
(01:57):
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, it's my pleasure. And so so you know, I
know you're not related to the American Trucking Associations, but
I guess the biggest difference between the two of you
is you're just truckload, not less than truckload.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, that's correct, And so our core principles at TCA,
even though we have an affiliation with ATA, we align
on ninety nine percent of our policies. Chris Spire and
I are very very good friends. But our core principles
at TCA basically tie into five major categories, which are
improving the driving job, improving roadway safety, improving the financial
(02:34):
stability of a motor carrier, promoting industry environmental stewardship, and
improving the industry image. So with these principles of mine again,
I'm happy to be with you today and speak to
any or all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, And you know you're You're not just a figurehead there,
You're a long term trucker as well. You're at Bowman.
Is it Bowman or Bowman?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, it is Bowman DM Bowman Incorporated, Waytesport, Maryland.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your
time there?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Sure. I first went to work for the Bowman family.
I started out as a railroader, believe it or not,
and out of school, and at that time the railroad
industry was going through a number of different mergers. I
was a management trainee. So I started as a brakeman,
kind of interesting, learning the yards and all, and one
day got tapped on the shoulder and it was shared
(03:23):
with me that I had been selected to go to
a locomotive engineer school. And so the next thing you know,
I was ended up in look about of engineer school
and was out running trains and learning to learn in
various rails on the eastern half of the US here.
And then when they built their headquarters in Jacksonville, Florida,
while I had an opportunity to transition there, at that time,
(03:44):
there was not much in Jacksonville, Florida, so my wife
and I decided that we would stay here. So that's
when I departed the railroad and was very blessed to
hire on with the Bowman family out of Williamsport, Maryland.
Don Bowman is the chairman and part of my career
there as a safety manager and spent about thirty years
with a company. Had two different two different stints there,
(04:07):
but the last time I come back, I come back
as the president and CEO was there running the organization
for twenty three years along with the family members and
an outside board.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
All right, great, well, let's shift gears back to TCA. So,
what are the biggest priorities that you guys are focused
on right now in Washington.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, we just had our fly in two weeks ago
of our members and we had one hundred and fifteen
meetings over on the Hill, which is pretty significant. And
I would just say that one of the one of
the major topics the conversation was the upcoming expiring of
the IIJA in September thirty of twenty twenty six, which
(04:46):
is what funds a highway Trust Fund. So we spent
quite a bit of time talking to congressmen and senators
and their staffer was about the importance of taking care
of of our highways. You know, we often hear hear
President Trump say when he comments about our infrastructures here
in the US, he says, we're operating on a on
(05:08):
a third world highway system, And to some extent, there's
a little bit of truth in that. Our professional driving employees,
as you know, that's the that's their home, and that's
where we keep the free flow of commerce moving every
single day. So we had a lot of conversation with
representatives about uh, we've recoined the federal fuel tax renamed
(05:32):
a gallon's based shooser fee, which we believe creates transparency
and helped would help the public better understand how the
Highway Trust Fund is financed if it was considered a
user's fee, which it really is, because you know, it's
a usage feed directly based to a highway use and
mouse traveled based on mouth per gallon, and it has
not been increased since nineteen ninety three from a federal standpoint,
(05:53):
you know, it still stands today at eighteen point four
cents for gasoline and twenty four point four cents for
d and so due to inflation and ride the construction costs,
a cumult of shortfall just recently announced by the CBO
over the next nine years twenty twenty four to twenty
thirty three, it's going to be about one hundred and
eighty one billion dollars. And so we have really spent
(06:17):
a lot of time sharing with them looking at you know,
what has been what would we have to increase the
federal fuel tax or the gallons base shoes of feet
to day, you know, to bring us current, and it's
about one hundred and seventeen percent increase lea since nineteen
ninety three, and you know, that sounds pretty significant, but
when you look at the dollars that was that was
(06:39):
provided to the infrastructure through the Infrastructure Investments job Act,
I mean it literally based on its purchase power with
down twenty four percent since twenty twenty one, just due
to inflationary costs. So you can just imagine what's happened
since nineteen ninety three. So we spent a lot of
time speaking with representatives about our support of, you know,
(07:04):
the electric vehicle registration fee for the general public as
well as hybrids. They're looking at a two hundred and
fifty dollars registration fee for electric vehicles passenger vehicles, that is,
they're looking at one hundred dollars. So if you take
all those dollars and then we also encourage them to
eliminate the federal ex scize tax, which brings about six
point nine billion dollars a year into the Highway Trust
(07:25):
Fund to try to bringing new equipment into the industry
rather than paying that that twelve percent tax has been
around since the World War to try to try to
fund the war. We truly believe that this would be
a great way to be able to not only maintain
our nation's highways as we continue to move into future,
but also be able to build out new highways. And
(07:47):
it really what's really interesting about it, One percent of
every dollar collected through the federal fuel tax goes to
administration costs, So it's really very efficient. It's a very
efficient way of being able to be collected and then
hopefully that you know, we're good stewards of it and
utilize it to build out our highways. But the American
Society is Civil Engineers twenty twenty four report that was
(08:08):
just released a few months ago rated our bridges a
C and our highway system a D plus, So we're
very much in need of doing something with the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Sounds like my college transcript, love the dust off of it.
Somewhat kidding anyway, So you know, I'm just curious. You know,
I'm assuming that politicians aren't excited to raise tax no
matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican. So that
(08:38):
must be a hard fight or a hard conversation to
have with these congress people.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It is a challenge. But you know, as you and
I both know, given the debt load that the government
is currently faced with, they're looking everywhere to try to
find funds and they're looking for ways that are efficient
and it makes sense and allows us as as a
as a country to be able to continue to grow
and expand. And so, you know, Chairman Graves, he came
(09:07):
back into the Transportation and Infrastructure as Infrastructure Chairman this
year through a waiver and he moved pretty rapidly on
on the FAA. And so we've been having conversations with
him and constituents on on T and I about this
need and about you know, really how efficient it could
be and should be, should we should be considered. But
(09:30):
you're right, it's it's it's metal concern because nobody wants
to continue to or consider attacks. And but you know,
with the with the president's philosophy about drill baby drill,
and as a capacity continues to improve from a from
a a fuel perspective, you know, this is the time
I think to be able to really consider doing something.
(09:50):
And it's really, like I said, it's the most efficient
way and it could be the future. You know, we
said several times we'd like to see President Trump be
the next guys and her, and he might have an
opportu unity to do that, right, And.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You know, I'm curious. So the current government shutdown at least,
you know, while we're recording this, there's there's a government
shut down. Has that impacted the trucking industry directly or indirectly?
I wouldn't say that we have seen a direct impact
from it yet. I think you know, as you and
I both know, the industry is is heavily supported by
(10:25):
consumer confidence and the consumer And you know, one thing
that we've learned over the years, many years is when
the economy's bad to consumer spend and when the economy
is good to consumer spend, and as long as the
consumer keeps spending, it's you know, our industry seems to
hold up pretty well. And so we haven't seen we
haven't seen a significant change in that arena yet, but
you know, who knows long term what could happen. Right, So,
(10:47):
there's a lot of stuff going on. The current administration.
You know, they have been a little more I guess
they're there. Philosophy is a little more protectionists versus the
different Republicans and Democrats that came before. You know, some
of those are geared at, you know, being more stringent
(11:09):
and with the enforcement of English language proficiency also there's
a lot of talk about ending non domiciles CDLs, kind
of where does the TCA come in line with this?
It's just something that you know, you guys are in
favor of as well, and kind of why or why not?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So Lee, the answer was yes, and the reason is safety.
I mean, you know, one of our key philosophies and
one of the industry's main priorities is being a good
neighbor on our nation's highways every single day. And whenever
you know you're you see these types of opportunities that's
currently being pursued. That's really nothing new.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I came into the business in January of nineteen eighty
six and at that time, through the Federal Motorcarey Safety
Administration regulations just said to be able to get you
to be a commercial driver, you need to be knowledgeable
of and converse it with the English language. That hasn't
that hasn't changed. And so what I think you're seeing
is is you're now seeing administration that's putting enforcement into
into some of the rules and regulations that's been around
(12:15):
for a while. And look, you hate to see anybody
be in front of with the potential loss of employment
but the fact of the matter is when when you're
out here in our nation's highways, we have to be safe.
And I think they've identified enough case studies to say, look,
if you're not knowledgeable of and converse it with the
English language, and you can't communicate with enforcement officers and
(12:37):
you're having a difficult time reading road signs, you probably
shouldn't be to hint an eighteen wheeler.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I mean I would agree with that. Can you
give us a little more information about you know, what
the heck is a non domicile CDL and and why
is it a big deal?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, the reason is when you see somebody these driver's
license and I know there's been some of them posted
out there on social media from an individual that's come
in out of the country into a state and been
able to get a CDL, you see on some of
these driver's license that there's there's a single name, you know,
and so you know, depending upon the country that you're from,
(13:13):
the and I know they're still working their way through
this thing to try to really identify that you are
at you let me just say, the individual that's out
there receiving a commercial driver's license is is eligible to
receive a commercial driver's license number one and number two
that you know they're receiving it in the state of
(13:35):
domicil because I think some of these people that commit
out of what we're hearing and seeing from our members,
and it's really not been an issue yet for us,
just so you know, for our membership, it hasn't been
it hasn't been a real challenge. So I think it's
it's more kind of these one off individuals that come
in out of the country, don't have a place of domicile,
(13:55):
possibly live in that truck and get their CDL, and
so you know, Secretary Duffy, I know he's identified what
is it seven states I think I heard last that
are really that are real issues right now, and I
know they're they're challenging them with some funding if they
if they, as a GWINN get ready to do audits
on the commercial driver's license on individuals that they've issued
(14:17):
commercial driver's license to to identify whether or not, you know,
they are eligible for a commercial driver's license or should
they not have received one as a non domicile individual.
So it's it's it's really interesting. It's it's still a
work in progress. I just heard him the other day
on on something one of the shows that he was on.
That's well, that's like I said. That's when he mentioned
(14:38):
that there were seven states that I think they were
having some challenges with right now in regards to this area. So,
but from from a member perspective, we've talked with several members,
and you know, most of our members, they they do
a pretty good background check on the individuals that are
coming to work for their organizations, and they also, you know,
(14:58):
you have to be able to speak the English language
proficient proficiently to be able to work for them. So
I don't think it's affecting quality carriers out there in
our nation's ways today. I think they're pretty much one all.
I've seen some of the numbers that they're reflecting that
that could be impacted by it is in this several
tens of thousands. Now, whether or not that comes to fruition,
I guess we'll see.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, gotcha interesting stuff. I saw something on Twitter X
today there was a CDL, a picture of a CDL
and you know, I had no name on it. So
that's pretty interesting, interesting stuff. So we'll see how that
impacts capacity, which which obviously I don't need to tell
(15:41):
you there needs be some more capacity coming out of
the market for rates to move higher. Can you talk
about emission standards. You know there's this new twenty twenty
seven EPA engine standards. I don't know where we are
with that with the federal government. You know, given the
Trump administrations less focus on green shall we say, uh,
(16:03):
you know, those could get pushed back given you know
the industry in your perspective, is it too late to
push things back or are you hopeful they'll push things
back in terms of uh, you know when these uh,
more expensive engines will be mandated.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So the answer is from a buying perspective, the sooner
the industry knows what the standard's going to be, the
better off everyone's going to be because you can make
capital expend your buying decisions. Unfortunately, when you're in when
you're in the kind of in flux as we are
right now, why you know, it makes it very difficult
for fleets to be able to identify what they're going
to do from a purchasing standpoint with equipment. But you know,
(16:45):
I've applauded a Trump administration for for what they've been
able to do because you know, as we moved and
again we the industry, as we've said many times, and
you know, a new truck today we reduce knocks by
ninety eight percent. I mean, it's pretty amazing the efficiency
from an environmental perspective of this new equipment which agains.
(17:07):
While we want to encourage you know, the repeal of
the federal excize tax to be able to continue to
put this new equipment into the system, I mean, the
challenge is is that a ten year old truck produces
eighty five per you know, you could reduce emissions by
eighty five percent by getting a ten year old truck
off the road. And so that's a really big deal.
And so so as the administration continues to look as
(17:29):
to what it's going to do, what we would like
to see and have basically signed onto a letter with
the American Trucking Association that you know, from a Knox perspective,
being able to get the OEMs to agree what it
should look like. I understand there's been a lot of
money invested from from their perspective of trying to you know,
get this thing down to this point oh three five
versus two hundred where it is today. But it appears
(17:50):
to me to let this thing go ahead and continue
to ride over the next few years while they continue
to work on inside of the EPA as well as
the OEMs, deciding how they can, how they get consensus
and what works for all of them going forward would
benefit everybody. And so you know, we we've asked for
him to lock the thing down where it is right now,
(18:12):
put us put it in place for five years and
look at it as you continue to move forward and
then make a decision as to what's in the best
interest of all the OEMs and the industry perspective, and
importantly our members so that they can make good quality
buying decisions. But I'll tell you the administration has made
some great strides. And again we know there's we know
there's applications where electrification and autonomous trucks make sense, but
(18:38):
we don't have the infrastructure for the electrical Class A
vehicle right now. I mean, we did a study with Rollenberger,
and I mean it was going to cost an excess
of a trillion dollars from an investment perspective, just to
you know, build out to Paragrid, build out the charging stations,
everything that's needed to be able to support an industry
that that's transitioning to electricic care. And you know they
(19:01):
used example in the Rollenberg study that we were part
of that. You know, we were trying to adapt electrification
and Class eight vehicles to move America's supply chain like
we did to mobile phones. And it doesn't work like that.
It's a different world, right, No.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Absolutely, you mentioned autonomous trucking, So is the TCA not
necessarily Are you guys for it or against it? Because
I mean, obviously it will or could impact truckers to
the actual drivers.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So Lee, when we talk about it, as you know,
there's there's five levels, and you know, we're pretty much
at the level four right now. We think the industry
has significantly benefited by the safety technology on autonomous vehicles
and there's more to come, so we fully support it.
But what we'd like to do is we call driver
assist because we think it's going to be more driver
assist equipment than it is going to be autonomous equipment. Now,
(19:58):
there's applications where it's probab going to be autonomous, but
the biggest challenge we see through the adoption of it
is a social acceptance. I mean, you know, the general
public other than through COVID when they were clapping at
us when we're delivering bread, milk, a toilet paper. You know,
most of the time they don't like us out there
on the highway with us for whatever reason. And we
just think they're going to have a very difficult time
(20:18):
adapting to look it up in a truck and seeing
nobody's sitting in that driver's seat. So how what that
transformation is all going to look like in time? Who knows,
But there's applications for it, and it is it is
going to occur, and you know, as demand continues to improve,
supply and demand and you know from from production to consumption,
and as the as population continues to grow, we know
(20:39):
there's gonna be there's gonna be areas where it makes
sense and uh, and it's going to be utilized. But
I think there's gonna be a driver and they're overseeing
it for quite a long time. Because the next question
is from an insurance perspective, is it going to be
auto liability, a product liability? Who's going to cover it? Right?
And I think in shorte companies are still struggling from
a risk management perspective when they're looking at this equipment
to figure out, you know, where's the loss going to
(21:01):
lie if something goes awroy So, I think there's a.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Lot of questions still out there, right, No, absolutely, I
think it's it's a long road. I had no pun intended.
You know, you mentioned insurance. I know insurance costs are
rising for your members. What are you guys trying to
do to kind of at least maybe slow the growth
or you know, reverse the growth of insurance costs.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's a difficult challenge, and one of the things is
one of the things is, as I just mentioned, is
continue to talk about the OEMs to put as much
as this safety technology is possibly available in this new equipment.
You know, it may not be perfect, but it's pretty
daggling good. Most of us having automobiles nowadays, and the
more that we can do to be able to continue
to protect the integrity of risk management and safety on
(21:49):
our nation's highways, we think is very, very very important.
You know, I think one of the challenges in the
insurance industry that's that's continued to go in today and
it's really needed. You know, we continue to battle what
we call lawsuit abuse. You know, it started years ago
is tot reform and again talking about name changes, but
we've changed it to lawsuit abuse. But I think these
(22:11):
challenges have become really significant, and so one of the
things that we've we've been on the hill talking about
that we'd like to see and are encouraging. There's there's
a bill over there now that's that's pursuing this is
but you know, move claims that are that are projected
to be an excess of five million dollars to federal court,
get them out of the district court level, and really
(22:33):
like to see good dad to a million. But you've
got to start somewhere. So I think it would be
very beneficial for our industry to be able to have
these cases heard on these five million dollars claims or
claims in excess of five million dollars projected to be
in excess to that hurt in federal court. So we
continue to we continue to run that battle, and you know,
whether we like it or not, there's still a lot
of bad actors out there in the general public sometimes
(22:54):
that you know, are stage in some of these these occurrences.
You've seen what's happened in Louisiana and some of these
other states. So we just continue to try to follow
up with the d O j FBI on some of
these some of these cases, and I hope we can,
we can challenge and and overcome some of these rings
and send a message and hey, look if if you
if you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. Right.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, I'm not a legal expert, h nor do
I play one on TV. But you know you mentioned
moving into federal court. What would that do for the
trucking industry.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, what what we truly believe is the fact that
it would it would create a more level playing field
for the for the carrier and in the case and
and how it's heard, how it's decided much more, much
more than in district courts here today. And uh so
we'll say, you know, you uh, you move into two
(23:49):
uh elected judges versus the point of judges and a
lot of cases and all, and so we think it
would be much of a more level playing field.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Right. Uh So fraud, you know, I kind of mentioned
fraud from it's really uh, it's really in the spotlight
here in the trucking industry. I think there was a
sixty minutes or a twenty twenty episode with Guy Fury
and some stolen tequila. So you know, you know, everyone
kind of talking about it, not just you know, people
like us that are involved in the industry from a
(24:20):
day in, day out basis, Can you talk about what's
going on with fraud and how your members are trying
to push back against it and protect themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, I would just tell you it's running rampant. It is.
It is getting worse every every week, every month, and
you know it. And I was really glad to see
for very guy on there last weekend. I guess talking
about that a couple of million dollar a loaded tequila
that they had stolen. Because you really need to make
(24:53):
people aware of what's going on because it's it's it's terrible.
And you know there's a lot of groups out there
right now really starting to try to work together in
states from a state level, from a federal level, try
to identify, you know, as a As you mentioned, I've
grown up in this industry from a from a leadership perspective,
and you know, we used to have to worry about
(25:14):
getting a pallet of freight stolen here or there on occasion,
but it was really pretty rare. I mean, but really
did I And I've only been retired out of the
industry hading up the association for four years now, but
rarely did I have to worry about losing my whole truck,
my whole trailer, and the whole load associated with it.
I mean, this is a this is a really big deal.
(25:35):
And I mean they can get this They can get
this load loaded onto a ship and out of this
country pretty quick. They can get it off loaded here
in the United States. I mean, a lot of high
value shipments are are are targeted. And you know, we
continue to hear from from FBI and dj and that
it's cartel related, and I believe it is. I mean
(25:57):
it's a it's really it's really significant. I can't quote
you the number. I just heard the number recently in
regards to what it's what it's amounting to annually, but
it's it's it's it's a it's an not godic crazy number.
I mean, it's just it is, uh, it is. It
is out of control. So so being able to work
(26:19):
with the various groups out there, law enforcement and and
and in the federal government. We just recently had a
meeting with FMCSA and we spent a lot of time
talking about it, Homeland security, you know, they're they're involved
in it. I mean, it's this thing. It's starting to
get the needed attention, but it's because it's grown into
a really big problem, and unfortunately, you know that ends
up back on the backs of the consumer. Somebody's gonna
(26:39):
pay for this, right.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
You know, you mentioned earlier in the conversation that you know,
you started your transportation journey in the railroads. You know,
there's been talk of consolidation of the rail industry, uh,
with Union Pacific and their proposed merger with Norfolk Southern.
Just wondering you know what the TCA has said, if
(27:02):
they've said anything about you know, the merger. Do you
think it's it's good for shippers uh and good for
the for the country?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, you know, again to your point, having having started
my career in the transportation industry in railroad and have
seen as much consolidation as we have over time, this
doesn't surprise me at the end of the day. You know,
will it be good or bad? Who knows. I mean,
only time's gonna tell. But you know, when when you
(27:32):
look at what they're attempting to do, it appears to
make a lot of sense. You know, we we as
an industry years ago when I worked for railroad, kind
of railroad and the motor carrier industry was really at
odds and and today we're we're really advocates of each other.
I mean, we're in this supply chain business, hand and
glove and and the fact of the matter is is
(27:54):
that you know, no matter, no matter what happens, still
seventy five per cent of your goods here to the
US is going to be moved on the truck. You know,
it's it's it's it's Uh, there's a there's a real
relationship opportunity to continue and will continue to grow with
with rail and trucking. But but whether or not at
the Norfolk Southern Union Pacific mergers, what that impact is
(28:17):
going to look like sitting here today, I really can't tell.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You, gotcha? All right, Well, let's turn our attention to
truck the trucking market then, from from your perspective kind
of you know, what is the state of the trucking
market and you know, kind of what is your outlook
for uh demanding rates going forward? Because it's really been
a tough market for the industry.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Well, you know, you said earlier, You're not a you're
not an attorney, and I'm not an economist. But I've
been around this business most of my life, and uh,
and I've lived through the Great Recession, you know, uh,
nine to eleven, a lot of challenges that impacted the
the marketplace, and the marketplace is always run some kind
of cycle for the years that I've been I've been
(29:04):
around it, but this is probably the most challenging cycle
that I believe the trucking industry has experienced. And coming
out of COVID, whether it was two great years, a
lot of capacity you know, entered the industry. Demand was
really very good, and and as as demand started to
(29:24):
either stabilize or even reduce, you know, you still had
all that capacity. And so as I looked to and
you know, every year for the last couple of years,
economists have continued to say, well, it's going to be
next quarter, well maybe next year, And here we are
three years plus into it, and it hasn't changed much.
I mean, you still have you still have an industry
(29:44):
from a supply and demand perspective that has less demand
than it has supply, and that's not healthy for anybody.
And then you you know, you have some of these
situations that we're talking about with the CDLs. They're talking
about some cabotage that's that's been taking place out there
from you know, individuals coming out of the country and
then moving goods from uh within the country rather than
(30:05):
go right straight back to where they came from, which
is what capitage is. And and so there's been there's
a lot of challenges and I think as as some
of these continue to get cleaned up, you're going to
see improvement sometime. But I think the real the real
improvement is going to be that that the industry is
going to come from demand, and we just haven't seen
that significant uptick in demand that's been able to absorb
(30:26):
the capacity that's out there. I think you're starting to
see a little more of a balance, I think it.
You know, you're starting to see some capacity change. What
do your lot of your finance companies, your banks and
all didn't bring it, didn't pull equipment back the last
couple of years because what were they going to do
with it. They wouldn't they weren't going to be able
to move it. Now I think it's becoming a really
challenging time because this equipment's getting some age on it,
and even if they would take it back, what what
(30:47):
are they going to do with it? You know, the
value has dropped significantly. So it's it's really been a really,
really difficult market and unfortunately, unfortunately for the for the carriers,
they're really good operators in this business, they haven't been
able to run inflationary costs you mentioned in Schwortz earlier,
and in shorts rates have gone up significantly, Equipment costs
(31:10):
have gone up significantly, Labor costs went up significantly during COVID.
I mean, it's just so they've been facing this headwind
of costs and unfortunately not being able to recover what
they need to in a marketplace from a rape perspective.
I know that's not very encouraging, but that's kind of
the lay of the land. And you know, I guess
I would just say this, most of these cycles lead
(31:31):
you probably know this better than I do, but normally
run about eighteen months. I mean, like I said, we're
sitting here looking at about a three year period. So
the good news is if we come out of this thing,
you would like to think we're going to have a
pretty good run at it. For a while. So that's
the hope.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, let's hope. So, so are there certain sub segments
of your members that are doing better than others or
that are I guess doing less worse? I guess better
is the wrong word. From a demand standpoint.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
You know, I think the all the segments have been challenged.
If there's one probably doing better than another, I would
probably have to say it's probably your tanker fleet have
probably you know, been able to hold around really pretty well.
Next next in line might be flatbed, but but certainly
drive in and refrigerated has really has really struggled.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, well that's I don't know, like that's interesting. So
the refrigerated standpoint, you know, I guess like high level.
I would think that's more defensive stuff like food and medicine.
Do you do you know what's driving the weakness and
the temperature controlled? You know, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We're we're the only trucking association that has any a
refrigerated or temp controlled division. So we have a we
have a really strong membership in the temp controlled area.
We have a lot of a lot of those individuals
participated in our temperature control division and we just had
a had our meeting back in July and Colorado Springs,
(33:03):
and it was a lot of the same as you're
here with drive An. I mean, it's just it's it's
just demand, demand and and excess capacity.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Got yeah, you know, outside of rates, you know, what
are the biggest challenges facing the trucking industry and your members?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, you know you mentioned Capitol Hill earlier and we
rarely go over there without talking about truck parking, you know,
being an issue. You know, when you're in a when
you're in an industry where you have three point three
three point four million professional drivers are generations highways every
day and you have three hundred and thirty thousand truck
parking spots, one for every eleven and it takes approximate
(33:39):
an hour to find a parking spot. It's a it's
a real problem, and especially a safe, well lit parking spot.
And you know, as we see the as we see
the the female professional drivers continue to grow in our industry,
that's becoming even even a greater issue. You know, they
have to have great they have to have good facilities,
not that our males don't. They do, they do as well,
(34:00):
but they've seemed to have adapted over the years. But
the quality save well lit with amenities of some kind
and chart porgy I think is really important. And then
on the flip side of that, you know, the challenge
is labor. I mean there's still and I know there's
a lot of there's a lot of conversation about this,
but you know it's rolled over into the tech world
and so even finding good quality technicians, a lot of
(34:24):
a lot of carriers that do their own maintenance and
companies that do maintenance for the carriers. I mean they've
transitioned to these vocational schools and bringing these individuals in
and really really train into this next generation of of
of technicians for our industry. So TCA we have we
have a scholarship program. We gave out about one hundred
and sixty five thousand dollars in scholarships this past year,
(34:46):
and we've just this was the first year that we've
transitioned to not only undergraduate degrees, but also two year
degrees as well to try to get into that vocational area.
So if you're a if you're a family member of
one of the TCA member companies, you're so dr daughter
can submit for some financial assistance to our scholarship program.
But I think that's going to continue to grow, and
I think I think workforce challenges are going to continue
(35:09):
to confront our industry, you.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Know, outside of you know, you know, as you mentioned
finding more parking spaces and creating more parking spaces for
the industry and you know, better facilities, whether it's for
men or women. What can the industry do to make trucking,
you know, driving a truck more appealing for people looking
to join a trade.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Well, I do think I still think of the one
of the great opportunities is to be able to allow
the industry to bring eighteen year olds into the industry
sooner and allow us to be able to train them,
get into the high schools, start working with them, so
you know, it's not a second career, that it's a
first career, and it's a very rewarding first career for
those individuals as long as they, you know, have an
(35:52):
opportunity to be able to start to understand it and
participate it at a very young age. And so you know,
just being able to drive intrast state with the truck
from eighteen to twenty years of age really needs to
be looked at it and it really needs to be
looked at with some good common sense. So I'm not
saying open up the open up the whole United States
to eighteen twenty year old twenty one year olds to
(36:12):
run interstate, but I'm saying, where it makes sense, you know,
let's do that. So where we were headquartered a DMBU
and incorporated along the Interstate eighty one, that the twelve
miles stretch of interstate any one that runs from West
Virginia to Pennsylvania. So I could run an individual on
you know, up and down from Hagerstown, Maryland or Westport,
Maryland to Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. But I couldn't run them up
north of the Pennsylvania line, and I couldn't run them
(36:35):
south down to West Virginia to Martinsburg or what have you.
But I could run them down Interstate seventy to Baltimore
and run them through the Ton one and run them
in in this inner city Baltimore all day long. So Lee,
it just you know, it's one of those things. Again.
Things are adopted and it makes sense at the time,
but sometimes you need to step back away from and
start to figure out, Okay, now, what could just look
like what should it look like, how do we gain
(36:57):
the efficiencies out of it, how do we make sure
it we're safe, but introduce these individuals into an industry
where they're going to be able to have a great livelihood.
Got ya?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And you know, is there anything else facing the freight
transportational justics industry that's on your radar that we might
have not talked about.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Well, you know, I think there's there's a number of
different challenges out there. These MC numbers is a real
issue going back to freight theft and load load theft.
And we had Ken Riddle and with FMCSA here just
recently providing our members and overview of some of the
changes that they're making internally to be able to track
MC numbers. But that's just new entrants. I mean, we
(37:35):
need that for everybody that's involved that hasn't an MC
number or dot number to make absolutely sure that you know,
theft isn't taking place, somebody's MC number isn't being stolen
and freight being moved by somebody else, and then the
company that's you know, responsible for not getting paid. So
that's that again continues to be a real, real challenge
for the industry and a real opportunity. And then one
(37:56):
of the things that I'm really proud of and happy
to see from the Trump administry is the fact that
you know, I think we've we've finally silenced a little
bit of the independent contractor model. The independent contractor model
seems to be live and well, and the Trump administration
seems to support it. Where you know, we were under
some challenges under the previous administration as we as we
looked at the independent contractor So we're really happy to
(38:19):
see that, you know, we're back on good for good
footing with the Department of Labor, and the independent contractor
models is still being looked at and understood that that's
how a lot of these people in this industry got started,
you know, one person, one truck, and from there they
grew into a small fleet and then a larger fleet.
And so protecting the integrity of that independent contractor model
for the for our industry is really important.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So, you know, in the beginning of the conversation, you
mentioned you found trucking through the rail industry. What made
you get into the rail industry? I guess you know,
how did you really start your journey within the freight markets?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Well, unlike most people you talk about. I had absolutely
no family member that was a railroad. I just happened
to leave a college one day and take a friend
of mine to a career fair and he was looking
for a job pretty heavily. I wasn't. And I was
standing up a side of a recruiter for the Western
Maryland Railroad who started encouraging me and ask me what
I'm gonna seal with my life after school, and I
(39:16):
said I'm not sure. He said, well, why don't you
fill out an application while you're standing here? And he
finally convinced me to do so. And you knows, as
the story goes, the rest is history. I've told a
lot of people lee and speaking engagements around the country
that I've I've had the opportunity to provide over the years.
But I started out as a little boy playing with
trains and trucks that I've made a living with him
my whole life. So it's been it's been great.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well that's fantastic, you know. And and talking about your career,
I understand you're you're gonna be retiring from the TCA soon.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Well, that is correct. We did make an announcement at
the board meeting in DC here two weeks ago that
I will be transitioning out of the TCA. I'll be
seventy in November, just so you know. And when I
stepped into the role four years ago, I stepped in
to phill. I was a chairman of TCI literally and
(40:05):
was retiring from DM Bowman Incorporated. And at that time,
an individual who was doing a really great job for
us had fallen really ill and decided that he was
going to step aside. And so I put a search
committee together and I was the head of the search committee.
I said, I felt a little bit like Dick Cheney
because the first thing, you know, everybody started to call
him in saying aren't you retired? Why don't you run
this thing for a while. So I had to recuse
myself from the search committee. But long story short, here
(40:28):
I am. It's been a wonderful opportunity for me and
my family. I tell everybody, hey, look, I'm you just
need to know I'm not saying this. This is this
may not be the final chapter for Jim Ward, but
for now it's my last full time final chapter. I
can assure you that right now. But it has been
a great experience. We have a great association, continue to
grow our membership, great great associate membership from industry suppliers,
(40:53):
and so everybody has been very supportive and very generous.
And I would just say that if you listen to
this and you're you're you're a quality individual that's interested
in the association world. Uh trupload president at gmail dot com,
send me a resume.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay. Uh So, what's the biggest thing you're going to
miss about your role at the TCAU once retirement takes hold?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Well, Lee, I think people I've heard people say this
most of my career, and there's a lot of truth
to it. You know, once you get diesel in your blood,
I'm not just sure there's any way to extract it.
And so and and through that process of having diesel
in your blood and and and working in the industry
and meeting and and be it introduced to a lot
of people, it's a great it's a great industry made
(41:44):
up of a of a lot of individuals. So my
wife and I both we've made a ton of friends,
learned a lot continue to learn. That's you know, that's
probably would be that that that could be the biggest
thing that I miss is I love to learn and
in this industry, even as as mature as it is,
continues to evolve. I've told I told our board of
directors at TCA, you know, I always say, you know,
(42:07):
some of them want to see you say and some
of them, even though they haven't said this till we
probably want to see you go. But that being said,
if I was twenty years younger, I'd be standing here
explain and why you know I should still be the
one individual running this association because looking at it over
the next twenty years, in the transformation that this industry
is going to go through, I think it's going to
be pretty amazing and I think we're going to see
some of the best times we've ever seen it. So
(42:28):
I'm sorry I'm going to miss that.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Well, the industry is going to miss you too, and
probably you know, especially your I have advocacy that you've
done over the years, whether it's as a CEO of
a trucking company or there at the TCA, So you know,
that's very commendable. You know, this is something I always
like to ask my guests towards the end. You know,
(42:52):
do you have a favorite book about the transportation industry
or leadership that's kind of close to your heart that
you've read.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Well, I don't know if it's about to transfer tation industry,
but and this may surprise you, but I'm a continuous
improvement guy, and early on in my career I was
tapped by a CEO and sent to a meeting in Orlando,
Florida for four days. And the facilitator of this meeting,
i'd heard the name, but I really wasn't familiar with him,
(43:20):
but it was W Verge Demo, and so I spent
four days in this meeting with a lot of mostly
the people were from NASA, learning about continuous improvement and
statistical process control, which I had to take twice in college.
And I do have to tell you it probably had
the greatest impact on my career of anything that I'd
ever participated in. And so anytime a new book comes out,
(43:42):
I just finished reading John Cotter's book on Change. I
know it came out right right after kind of after COVID,
but that's what I like, and I like reading about
businesses and the transformation of businesses and what make businesses ticked.
But I would tell you in that seminar with W
Verards Deming, was probably life changing. I went on to
read a lot about Joseph Duran. I had a chance
(44:05):
to meet one of one of Deming's individuals that he
basically had tutorly tutored, you know, along the way and
had consulted with General Motors and a number of different companies.
And so it's been it's been a great experience. And
I'm here to tell you that that philosophy and those
principles of continuous improvement tie into no matter what business
you're in, whether you're in transportation, financial services. I mean it,
(44:28):
there's a lot of truth that can be applied from
learning from individuals like w. Evers and Deming, Joseph Duran
and some of those individuals that is truly applicable to
the business world still today.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Absolutely, And before I let you go, does does TCA
have any like major events and conferences that are holds
throughout the year.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Matter of fact, we do our annual meeting, which will
probably be my swan song is February twenty eighth to
March third. It'll be at the Gaylord in Kissimmi, Florida,
Kissing Me Florida. So that's our next opportunity. And then
if you're in Canada. We have a Bridging Barrier Boarding
Borders meeting we hold every year for our Canadian members
(45:12):
up in Canada, and that is going to be November.
I'm not sure if it's Nathan. I go to the
go to GCA's website. It's truckload dot org and you'll
be able to see all the events that we have
coming up. So really appreciate you asking Lee, And if
anybody who's out and takes a look and has any questions,
why please don't hesitate to reach out to me or
(45:35):
one of the stampup. We'd be happy to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
All right. Thank you so much, Jim for your time
and insights today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
You as well, Lee anytime. I certainly appreciate all Bloomberg
does for our industry as well, So thank you very much, and.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I want to thank you for tuning in. If you
liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. We've
lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,
so please check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators,
and decision maker within the freight markets. Also, you want
to learn more about freight transportation. Check out our work
on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and on social media.
(46:08):
This is Lee Clascal siding Off and thanks for talking
transports with me. Talk to you next week. Bye,
Hi everyone, this is Lee Claskal when We're Talking Transports.
Welcome to Bloomberg Intelligence Talking Transports podcast. I'm your host,
Lee Clascow, Senior Freight Transportation Logistics SANA. Let's at Bloomberg Intelligence,
Bloomberg's in house research arm of almost five hundred analysts
and strategists around the world. A quick public service announcement
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(00:21):
bringing great guests and conversations to you, our listeners, and
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the Bloomberg terminal LinkedIn are on x AT Logistics lead
(00:41):
onto our program. I'm very excited to have Jim Ward,
the president of the Truckload Carrier Association or TCA, a
position he's held since April twenty twenty two. Jim retired
from dm Bawman as CEO and president. His career Bauman
spanned it over twenty two years. Welcome to the podcast.
(01:02):
Jim's great to have you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, Lee, thank you very much and it's a pleasure
to be with you.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
And you know, the Truckload Carrier Association, can you talk
about the industry group? You know, what is your I
guess your main mission.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, TCA with offices at five five five East Braddock
Road and Allegianda, Virginia. Well, we're basically the only national
trade association who's collective, sole focused is the truckload segment
of the trucking industry. The association represents drive in, refrigerated
tanker and railroannomotive carriers operating in the forty eight contiguous
(01:37):
US states Alaska, we have members of Alaska, Mexico, and Canada.
So as a significant part of the industry with over
and I know you know this, I half a million
companies operating means of power units within the United States.
TCA and it's truck and company members regularly comment on
matters affecting the national transportation industries, common interest and potential impact.
(01:57):
So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
Yeah, it's my pleasure. And so so you know, I
know you're not related to the American Trucking Associations, but
I guess the biggest difference between the two of you
is you're just truckload, not less than truckload.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Yeah, that's correct, And so our core principles at TCA,
even though we have an affiliation with ATA, we align
on ninety nine percent of our policies. Chris Spire and
I are very very good friends. But our core principles
at TCA basically tie into five major categories, which are
improving the driving job, improving roadway safety, improving the financial
(02:34):
stability of a motor carrier, promoting industry environmental stewardship, and
improving the industry image. So with these principles of mine again,
I'm happy to be with you today and speak to
any or all of them.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, And you know you're You're not just a figurehead there,
You're a long term trucker as well. You're at Bowman.
Is it Bowman or Bowman?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
No, it is Bowman DM Bowman Incorporated, Waytesport, Maryland.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your
time there?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Sure. I first went to work for the Bowman family.
I started out as a railroader, believe it or not,
and out of school, and at that time the railroad
industry was going through a number of different mergers. I
was a management trainee. So I started as a brakeman,
kind of interesting, learning the yards and all, and one
day got tapped on the shoulder and it was shared
(03:23):
with me that I had been selected to go to
a locomotive engineer school. And so the next thing you know,
I was ended up in look about of engineer school
and was out running trains and learning to learn in
various rails on the eastern half of the US here.
And then when they built their headquarters in Jacksonville, Florida,
while I had an opportunity to transition there, at that time,
(03:44):
there was not much in Jacksonville, Florida, so my wife
and I decided that we would stay here. So that's
when I departed the railroad and was very blessed to
hire on with the Bowman family out of Williamsport, Maryland.
Don Bowman is the chairman and part of my career
there as a safety manager and spent about thirty years
with a company. Had two different two different stints there,
(04:07):
but the last time I come back, I come back
as the president and CEO was there running the organization
for twenty three years along with the family members and
an outside board.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
All right, great, well, let's shift gears back to TCA. So,
what are the biggest priorities that you guys are focused
on right now in Washington.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, we just had our fly in two weeks ago
of our members and we had one hundred and fifteen
meetings over on the Hill, which is pretty significant. And
I would just say that one of the one of
the major topics the conversation was the upcoming expiring of
the IIJA in September thirty of twenty twenty six, which
(04:46):
is what funds a highway Trust Fund. So we spent
quite a bit of time talking to congressmen and senators
and their staffer was about the importance of taking care
of of our highways. You know, we often hear hear
President Trump say when he comments about our infrastructures here
in the US, he says, we're operating on a on
(05:08):
a third world highway system, And to some extent, there's
a little bit of truth in that. Our professional driving employees,
as you know, that's the that's their home, and that's
where we keep the free flow of commerce moving every
single day. So we had a lot of conversation with
representatives about uh, we've recoined the federal fuel tax renamed
(05:32):
a gallon's based shooser fee, which we believe creates transparency
and helped would help the public better understand how the
Highway Trust Fund is financed if it was considered a
user's fee, which it really is, because you know, it's
a usage feed directly based to a highway use and
mouse traveled based on mouth per gallon, and it has
not been increased since nineteen ninety three from a federal standpoint,
(05:53):
you know, it still stands today at eighteen point four
cents for gasoline and twenty four point four cents for
d and so due to inflation and ride the construction costs,
a cumult of shortfall just recently announced by the CBO
over the next nine years twenty twenty four to twenty
thirty three, it's going to be about one hundred and
eighty one billion dollars. And so we have really spent
(06:17):
a lot of time sharing with them looking at you know,
what has been what would we have to increase the
federal fuel tax or the gallons base shoes of feet
to day, you know, to bring us current, and it's
about one hundred and seventeen percent increase lea since nineteen
ninety three, and you know, that sounds pretty significant, but
when you look at the dollars that was that was
(06:39):
provided to the infrastructure through the Infrastructure Investments job Act,
I mean it literally based on its purchase power with
down twenty four percent since twenty twenty one, just due
to inflationary costs. So you can just imagine what's happened
since nineteen ninety three. So we spent a lot of
time speaking with representatives about our support of, you know,
(07:04):
the electric vehicle registration fee for the general public as
well as hybrids. They're looking at a two hundred and
fifty dollars registration fee for electric vehicles passenger vehicles, that is,
they're looking at one hundred dollars. So if you take
all those dollars and then we also encourage them to
eliminate the federal ex scize tax, which brings about six
point nine billion dollars a year into the Highway Trust
(07:25):
Fund to try to bringing new equipment into the industry
rather than paying that that twelve percent tax has been
around since the World War to try to try to
fund the war. We truly believe that this would be
a great way to be able to not only maintain
our nation's highways as we continue to move into future,
but also be able to build out new highways. And
(07:47):
it really what's really interesting about it, One percent of
every dollar collected through the federal fuel tax goes to
administration costs, So it's really very efficient. It's a very
efficient way of being able to be collected and then
hopefully that you know, we're good stewards of it and
utilize it to build out our highways. But the American
Society is Civil Engineers twenty twenty four report that was
(08:08):
just released a few months ago rated our bridges a
C and our highway system a D plus, So we're
very much in need of doing something with the infrastructure.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Sounds like my college transcript, love the dust off of it.
Somewhat kidding anyway, So you know, I'm just curious. You know,
I'm assuming that politicians aren't excited to raise tax no
matter if you're a Democrat or a Republican. So that
(08:38):
must be a hard fight or a hard conversation to
have with these congress people.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It is a challenge. But you know, as you and
I both know, given the debt load that the government
is currently faced with, they're looking everywhere to try to
find funds and they're looking for ways that are efficient
and it makes sense and allows us as as a
as a country to be able to continue to grow
and expand. And so, you know, Chairman Graves, he came
(09:07):
back into the Transportation and Infrastructure as Infrastructure Chairman this
year through a waiver and he moved pretty rapidly on
on the FAA. And so we've been having conversations with
him and constituents on on T and I about this
need and about you know, really how efficient it could
be and should be, should we should be considered. But
(09:30):
you're right, it's it's it's metal concern because nobody wants
to continue to or consider attacks. And but you know,
with the with the president's philosophy about drill baby drill,
and as a capacity continues to improve from a from
a a fuel perspective, you know, this is the time
I think to be able to really consider doing something.
(09:50):
And it's really, like I said, it's the most efficient
way and it could be the future. You know, we
said several times we'd like to see President Trump be
the next guys and her, and he might have an
opportu unity to do that, right, And.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
You know, I'm curious. So the current government shutdown at least,
you know, while we're recording this, there's there's a government
shut down. Has that impacted the trucking industry directly or indirectly?
I wouldn't say that we have seen a direct impact
from it yet. I think you know, as you and
I both know, the industry is is heavily supported by
(10:25):
consumer confidence and the consumer And you know, one thing
that we've learned over the years, many years is when
the economy's bad to consumer spend and when the economy
is good to consumer spend, and as long as the
consumer keeps spending, it's you know, our industry seems to
hold up pretty well. And so we haven't seen we
haven't seen a significant change in that arena yet, but
you know, who knows long term what could happen. Right, So,
(10:47):
there's a lot of stuff going on. The current administration.
You know, they have been a little more I guess
they're there. Philosophy is a little more protectionists versus the
different Republicans and Democrats that came before. You know, some
of those are geared at, you know, being more stringent
(11:09):
and with the enforcement of English language proficiency also there's
a lot of talk about ending non domiciles CDLs, kind
of where does the TCA come in line with this?
It's just something that you know, you guys are in
favor of as well, and kind of why or why not?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
So Lee, the answer was yes, and the reason is safety.
I mean, you know, one of our key philosophies and
one of the industry's main priorities is being a good
neighbor on our nation's highways every single day. And whenever
you know you're you see these types of opportunities that's
currently being pursued. That's really nothing new.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
You know.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
I came into the business in January of nineteen eighty
six and at that time, through the Federal Motorcarey Safety
Administration regulations just said to be able to get you
to be a commercial driver, you need to be knowledgeable
of and converse it with the English language. That hasn't
that hasn't changed. And so what I think you're seeing
is is you're now seeing administration that's putting enforcement into
into some of the rules and regulations that's been around
(12:15):
for a while. And look, you hate to see anybody
be in front of with the potential loss of employment
but the fact of the matter is when when you're
out here in our nation's highways, we have to be safe.
And I think they've identified enough case studies to say, look,
if you're not knowledgeable of and converse it with the
English language, and you can't communicate with enforcement officers and
(12:37):
you're having a difficult time reading road signs, you probably
shouldn't be to hint an eighteen wheeler.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah, I mean I would agree with that. Can you
give us a little more information about you know, what
the heck is a non domicile CDL and and why
is it a big deal?
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Well, the reason is when you see somebody these driver's
license and I know there's been some of them posted
out there on social media from an individual that's come
in out of the country into a state and been
able to get a CDL, you see on some of
these driver's license that there's there's a single name, you know,
and so you know, depending upon the country that you're from,
(13:13):
the and I know they're still working their way through
this thing to try to really identify that you are
at you let me just say, the individual that's out
there receiving a commercial driver's license is is eligible to
receive a commercial driver's license number one and number two
that you know they're receiving it in the state of
(13:35):
domicil because I think some of these people that commit
out of what we're hearing and seeing from our members,
and it's really not been an issue yet for us,
just so you know, for our membership, it hasn't been
it hasn't been a real challenge. So I think it's
it's more kind of these one off individuals that come
in out of the country, don't have a place of domicile,
(13:55):
possibly live in that truck and get their CDL, and
so you know, Secretary Duffy, I know he's identified what
is it seven states I think I heard last that
are really that are real issues right now, and I
know they're they're challenging them with some funding if they
if they, as a GWINN get ready to do audits
on the commercial driver's license on individuals that they've issued
(14:17):
commercial driver's license to to identify whether or not, you know,
they are eligible for a commercial driver's license or should
they not have received one as a non domicile individual.
So it's it's it's really interesting. It's it's still a
work in progress. I just heard him the other day
on on something one of the shows that he was on.
That's well, that's like I said. That's when he mentioned
(14:38):
that there were seven states that I think they were
having some challenges with right now in regards to this area. So,
but from from a member perspective, we've talked with several members,
and you know, most of our members, they they do
a pretty good background check on the individuals that are
coming to work for their organizations, and they also, you know,
(14:58):
you have to be able to speak the English language
proficient proficiently to be able to work for them. So
I don't think it's affecting quality carriers out there in
our nation's ways today. I think they're pretty much one all.
I've seen some of the numbers that they're reflecting that
that could be impacted by it is in this several
tens of thousands. Now, whether or not that comes to fruition,
I guess we'll see.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yeah, gotcha interesting stuff. I saw something on Twitter X
today there was a CDL, a picture of a CDL
and you know, I had no name on it. So
that's pretty interesting, interesting stuff. So we'll see how that
impacts capacity, which which obviously I don't need to tell
(15:41):
you there needs be some more capacity coming out of
the market for rates to move higher. Can you talk
about emission standards. You know there's this new twenty twenty
seven EPA engine standards. I don't know where we are
with that with the federal government. You know, given the
Trump administrations less focus on green shall we say, uh,
(16:03):
you know, those could get pushed back given you know
the industry in your perspective, is it too late to
push things back or are you hopeful they'll push things
back in terms of uh, you know when these uh,
more expensive engines will be mandated.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
So the answer is from a buying perspective, the sooner
the industry knows what the standard's going to be, the
better off everyone's going to be because you can make
capital expend your buying decisions. Unfortunately, when you're in when
you're in the kind of in flux as we are
right now, why you know, it makes it very difficult
for fleets to be able to identify what they're going
to do from a purchasing standpoint with equipment. But you know,
(16:45):
I've applauded a Trump administration for for what they've been
able to do because you know, as we moved and
again we the industry, as we've said many times, and
you know, a new truck today we reduce knocks by
ninety eight percent. I mean, it's pretty amazing the efficiency
from an environmental perspective of this new equipment which agains.
(17:07):
While we want to encourage you know, the repeal of
the federal excize tax to be able to continue to
put this new equipment into the system, I mean, the
challenge is is that a ten year old truck produces
eighty five per you know, you could reduce emissions by
eighty five percent by getting a ten year old truck
off the road. And so that's a really big deal.
And so so as the administration continues to look as
(17:29):
to what it's going to do, what we would like
to see and have basically signed onto a letter with
the American Trucking Association that you know, from a Knox perspective,
being able to get the OEMs to agree what it
should look like. I understand there's been a lot of
money invested from from their perspective of trying to you know,
get this thing down to this point oh three five
versus two hundred where it is today. But it appears
(17:50):
to me to let this thing go ahead and continue
to ride over the next few years while they continue
to work on inside of the EPA as well as
the OEMs, deciding how they can, how they get consensus
and what works for all of them going forward would
benefit everybody. And so you know, we we've asked for
him to lock the thing down where it is right now,
(18:12):
put us put it in place for five years and
look at it as you continue to move forward and
then make a decision as to what's in the best
interest of all the OEMs and the industry perspective, and
importantly our members so that they can make good quality
buying decisions. But I'll tell you the administration has made
some great strides. And again we know there's we know
there's applications where electrification and autonomous trucks make sense, but
(18:38):
we don't have the infrastructure for the electrical Class A
vehicle right now. I mean, we did a study with Rollenberger,
and I mean it was going to cost an excess
of a trillion dollars from an investment perspective, just to
you know, build out to Paragrid, build out the charging stations,
everything that's needed to be able to support an industry
that that's transitioning to electricic care. And you know they
(19:01):
used example in the Rollenberg study that we were part
of that. You know, we were trying to adapt electrification
and Class eight vehicles to move America's supply chain like
we did to mobile phones. And it doesn't work like that.
It's a different world, right, No.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Absolutely, you mentioned autonomous trucking, So is the TCA not
necessarily Are you guys for it or against it? Because
I mean, obviously it will or could impact truckers to
the actual drivers.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
So Lee, when we talk about it, as you know,
there's there's five levels, and you know, we're pretty much
at the level four right now. We think the industry
has significantly benefited by the safety technology on autonomous vehicles
and there's more to come, so we fully support it.
But what we'd like to do is we call driver
assist because we think it's going to be more driver
assist equipment than it is going to be autonomous equipment. Now,
(19:58):
there's applications where it's probab going to be autonomous, but
the biggest challenge we see through the adoption of it
is a social acceptance. I mean, you know, the general
public other than through COVID when they were clapping at
us when we're delivering bread, milk, a toilet paper. You know,
most of the time they don't like us out there
on the highway with us for whatever reason. And we
just think they're going to have a very difficult time
(20:18):
adapting to look it up in a truck and seeing
nobody's sitting in that driver's seat. So how what that
transformation is all going to look like in time? Who knows,
But there's applications for it, and it is it is
going to occur, and you know, as demand continues to improve,
supply and demand and you know from from production to consumption,
and as the as population continues to grow, we know
(20:39):
there's gonna be there's gonna be areas where it makes
sense and uh, and it's going to be utilized. But
I think there's gonna be a driver and they're overseeing
it for quite a long time. Because the next question
is from an insurance perspective, is it going to be
auto liability, a product liability? Who's going to cover it? Right?
And I think in shorte companies are still struggling from
a risk management perspective when they're looking at this equipment
to figure out, you know, where's the loss going to
(21:01):
lie if something goes awroy So, I think there's a.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Lot of questions still out there, right, No, absolutely, I
think it's it's a long road. I had no pun intended.
You know, you mentioned insurance. I know insurance costs are
rising for your members. What are you guys trying to
do to kind of at least maybe slow the growth
or you know, reverse the growth of insurance costs.
Speaker 2 (21:27):
It's a difficult challenge, and one of the things is
one of the things is, as I just mentioned, is
continue to talk about the OEMs to put as much
as this safety technology is possibly available in this new equipment.
You know, it may not be perfect, but it's pretty
daggling good. Most of us having automobiles nowadays, and the
more that we can do to be able to continue
to protect the integrity of risk management and safety on
(21:49):
our nation's highways, we think is very, very very important.
You know, I think one of the challenges in the
insurance industry that's that's continued to go in today and
it's really needed. You know, we continue to battle what
we call lawsuit abuse. You know, it started years ago
is tot reform and again talking about name changes, but
we've changed it to lawsuit abuse. But I think these
(22:11):
challenges have become really significant, and so one of the
things that we've we've been on the hill talking about
that we'd like to see and are encouraging. There's there's
a bill over there now that's that's pursuing this is
but you know, move claims that are that are projected
to be an excess of five million dollars to federal court,
get them out of the district court level, and really
(22:33):
like to see good dad to a million. But you've
got to start somewhere. So I think it would be
very beneficial for our industry to be able to have
these cases heard on these five million dollars claims or
claims in excess of five million dollars projected to be
in excess to that hurt in federal court. So we
continue to we continue to run that battle, and you know,
whether we like it or not, there's still a lot
of bad actors out there in the general public sometimes
(22:54):
that you know, are stage in some of these these occurrences.
You've seen what's happened in Louisiana and some of these
other states. So we just continue to try to follow
up with the d O j FBI on some of
these some of these cases, and I hope we can,
we can challenge and and overcome some of these rings
and send a message and hey, look if if you
if you play with fire, you're gonna get burnt. Right.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You know, I'm not a legal expert, h nor do
I play one on TV. But you know you mentioned
moving into federal court. What would that do for the
trucking industry.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
Well, what what we truly believe is the fact that
it would it would create a more level playing field
for the for the carrier and in the case and
and how it's heard, how it's decided much more, much
more than in district courts here today. And uh so
we'll say, you know, you uh, you move into two
(23:49):
uh elected judges versus the point of judges and a
lot of cases and all, and so we think it
would be much of a more level playing field.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Right. Uh So fraud, you know, I kind of mentioned
fraud from it's really uh, it's really in the spotlight
here in the trucking industry. I think there was a
sixty minutes or a twenty twenty episode with Guy Fury
and some stolen tequila. So you know, you know, everyone
kind of talking about it, not just you know, people
like us that are involved in the industry from a
(24:20):
day in, day out basis, Can you talk about what's
going on with fraud and how your members are trying
to push back against it and protect themselves.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Well, I would just tell you it's running rampant. It is.
It is getting worse every every week, every month, and
you know it. And I was really glad to see
for very guy on there last weekend. I guess talking
about that a couple of million dollar a loaded tequila
that they had stolen. Because you really need to make
(24:53):
people aware of what's going on because it's it's it's terrible.
And you know there's a lot of groups out there
right now really starting to try to work together in
states from a state level, from a federal level, try
to identify, you know, as a As you mentioned, I've
grown up in this industry from a from a leadership perspective,
and you know, we used to have to worry about
(25:14):
getting a pallet of freight stolen here or there on occasion,
but it was really pretty rare. I mean, but really
did I And I've only been retired out of the
industry hading up the association for four years now, but
rarely did I have to worry about losing my whole truck,
my whole trailer, and the whole load associated with it.
I mean, this is a this is a really big deal.
(25:35):
And I mean they can get this They can get
this load loaded onto a ship and out of this
country pretty quick. They can get it off loaded here
in the United States. I mean, a lot of high
value shipments are are are targeted. And you know, we
continue to hear from from FBI and dj and that
it's cartel related, and I believe it is. I mean
(25:57):
it's a it's really it's really significant. I can't quote
you the number. I just heard the number recently in
regards to what it's what it's amounting to annually, but
it's it's it's it's a it's an not godic crazy number.
I mean, it's just it is, uh, it is. It
is out of control. So so being able to work
(26:19):
with the various groups out there, law enforcement and and
and in the federal government. We just recently had a
meeting with FMCSA and we spent a lot of time
talking about it, Homeland security, you know, they're they're involved
in it. I mean, it's this thing. It's starting to
get the needed attention, but it's because it's grown into
a really big problem, and unfortunately, you know that ends
up back on the backs of the consumer. Somebody's gonna
(26:39):
pay for this, right.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
You know, you mentioned earlier in the conversation that you know,
you started your transportation journey in the railroads. You know,
there's been talk of consolidation of the rail industry, uh,
with Union Pacific and their proposed merger with Norfolk Southern.
Just wondering you know what the TCA has said, if
(27:02):
they've said anything about you know, the merger. Do you
think it's it's good for shippers uh and good for
the for the country?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Well, you know, again to your point, having having started
my career in the transportation industry in railroad and have
seen as much consolidation as we have over time, this
doesn't surprise me at the end of the day. You know,
will it be good or bad? Who knows. I mean,
only time's gonna tell. But you know, when when you
(27:32):
look at what they're attempting to do, it appears to
make a lot of sense. You know, we we as
an industry years ago when I worked for railroad, kind
of railroad and the motor carrier industry was really at
odds and and today we're we're really advocates of each other.
I mean, we're in this supply chain business, hand and
glove and and the fact of the matter is is
(27:54):
that you know, no matter, no matter what happens, still
seventy five per cent of your goods here to the
US is going to be moved on the truck. You know,
it's it's it's it's Uh, there's a there's a real
relationship opportunity to continue and will continue to grow with
with rail and trucking. But but whether or not at
the Norfolk Southern Union Pacific mergers, what that impact is
(28:17):
going to look like sitting here today, I really can't tell.
Speaker 1 (28:19):
You, gotcha? All right, Well, let's turn our attention to
truck the trucking market then, from from your perspective kind
of you know, what is the state of the trucking
market and you know, kind of what is your outlook
for uh demanding rates going forward? Because it's really been
a tough market for the industry.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Well, you know, you said earlier, You're not a you're
not an attorney, and I'm not an economist. But I've
been around this business most of my life, and uh,
and I've lived through the Great Recession, you know, uh,
nine to eleven, a lot of challenges that impacted the
the marketplace, and the marketplace is always run some kind
of cycle for the years that I've been I've been
(29:04):
around it, but this is probably the most challenging cycle
that I believe the trucking industry has experienced. And coming
out of COVID, whether it was two great years, a
lot of capacity you know, entered the industry. Demand was
really very good, and and as as demand started to
(29:24):
either stabilize or even reduce, you know, you still had
all that capacity. And so as I looked to and
you know, every year for the last couple of years,
economists have continued to say, well, it's going to be
next quarter, well maybe next year, And here we are
three years plus into it, and it hasn't changed much.
I mean, you still have you still have an industry
(29:44):
from a supply and demand perspective that has less demand
than it has supply, and that's not healthy for anybody.
And then you you know, you have some of these
situations that we're talking about with the CDLs. They're talking
about some cabotage that's that's been taking place out there
from you know, individuals coming out of the country and
then moving goods from uh within the country rather than
(30:05):
go right straight back to where they came from, which
is what capitage is. And and so there's been there's
a lot of challenges and I think as as some
of these continue to get cleaned up, you're going to
see improvement sometime. But I think the real the real
improvement is going to be that that the industry is
going to come from demand, and we just haven't seen
that significant uptick in demand that's been able to absorb
(30:26):
the capacity that's out there. I think you're starting to
see a little more of a balance, I think it.
You know, you're starting to see some capacity change. What
do your lot of your finance companies, your banks and
all didn't bring it, didn't pull equipment back the last
couple of years because what were they going to do
with it. They wouldn't they weren't going to be able
to move it. Now I think it's becoming a really
challenging time because this equipment's getting some age on it,
and even if they would take it back, what what
(30:47):
are they going to do with it? You know, the
value has dropped significantly. So it's it's really been a really,
really difficult market and unfortunately, unfortunately for the for the carriers,
they're really good operators in this business, they haven't been
able to run inflationary costs you mentioned in Schwortz earlier,
and in shorts rates have gone up significantly, Equipment costs
(31:10):
have gone up significantly, Labor costs went up significantly during COVID.
I mean, it's just so they've been facing this headwind
of costs and unfortunately not being able to recover what
they need to in a marketplace from a rape perspective.
I know that's not very encouraging, but that's kind of
the lay of the land. And you know, I guess
I would just say this, most of these cycles lead
(31:31):
you probably know this better than I do, but normally
run about eighteen months. I mean, like I said, we're
sitting here looking at about a three year period. So
the good news is if we come out of this thing,
you would like to think we're going to have a
pretty good run at it. For a while. So that's
the hope.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Well, let's hope. So, so are there certain sub segments
of your members that are doing better than others or
that are I guess doing less worse? I guess better
is the wrong word. From a demand standpoint.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
You know, I think the all the segments have been challenged.
If there's one probably doing better than another, I would
probably have to say it's probably your tanker fleet have
probably you know, been able to hold around really pretty well.
Next next in line might be flatbed, but but certainly
drive in and refrigerated has really has really struggled.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Yeah, well that's I don't know, like that's interesting. So
the refrigerated standpoint, you know, I guess like high level.
I would think that's more defensive stuff like food and medicine.
Do you do you know what's driving the weakness and
the temperature controlled? You know, I really don't.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
We're we're the only trucking association that has any a
refrigerated or temp controlled division. So we have a we
have a really strong membership in the temp controlled area.
We have a lot of a lot of those individuals
participated in our temperature control division and we just had
a had our meeting back in July and Colorado Springs,
(33:03):
and it was a lot of the same as you're
here with drive An. I mean, it's just it's it's
just demand, demand and and excess capacity.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Got yeah, you know, outside of rates, you know, what
are the biggest challenges facing the trucking industry and your members?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Well, you know you mentioned Capitol Hill earlier and we
rarely go over there without talking about truck parking, you know,
being an issue. You know, when you're in a when
you're in an industry where you have three point three
three point four million professional drivers are generations highways every
day and you have three hundred and thirty thousand truck
parking spots, one for every eleven and it takes approximate
(33:39):
an hour to find a parking spot. It's a it's
a real problem, and especially a safe, well lit parking spot.
And you know, as we see the as we see
the the female professional drivers continue to grow in our industry,
that's becoming even even a greater issue. You know, they
have to have great they have to have good facilities,
not that our males don't. They do, they do as well,
(34:00):
but they've seemed to have adapted over the years. But
the quality save well lit with amenities of some kind
and chart porgy I think is really important. And then
on the flip side of that, you know, the challenge
is labor. I mean there's still and I know there's
a lot of there's a lot of conversation about this,
but you know it's rolled over into the tech world
and so even finding good quality technicians, a lot of
(34:24):
a lot of carriers that do their own maintenance and
companies that do maintenance for the carriers. I mean they've
transitioned to these vocational schools and bringing these individuals in
and really really train into this next generation of of
of technicians for our industry. So TCA we have we
have a scholarship program. We gave out about one hundred
and sixty five thousand dollars in scholarships this past year,
(34:46):
and we've just this was the first year that we've
transitioned to not only undergraduate degrees, but also two year
degrees as well to try to get into that vocational area.
So if you're a if you're a family member of
one of the TCA member companies, you're so dr daughter
can submit for some financial assistance to our scholarship program.
But I think that's going to continue to grow, and
I think I think workforce challenges are going to continue
(35:09):
to confront our industry, you.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
Know, outside of you know, you know, as you mentioned
finding more parking spaces and creating more parking spaces for
the industry and you know, better facilities, whether it's for
men or women. What can the industry do to make trucking,
you know, driving a truck more appealing for people looking
to join a trade.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Well, I do think I still think of the one
of the great opportunities is to be able to allow
the industry to bring eighteen year olds into the industry
sooner and allow us to be able to train them,
get into the high schools, start working with them, so
you know, it's not a second career, that it's a
first career, and it's a very rewarding first career for
those individuals as long as they, you know, have an
(35:52):
opportunity to be able to start to understand it and
participate it at a very young age. And so you know,
just being able to drive intrast state with the truck
from eighteen to twenty years of age really needs to
be looked at it and it really needs to be
looked at with some good common sense. So I'm not
saying open up the open up the whole United States
to eighteen twenty year old twenty one year olds to
(36:12):
run interstate, but I'm saying, where it makes sense, you know,
let's do that. So where we were headquartered a DMBU
and incorporated along the Interstate eighty one, that the twelve
miles stretch of interstate any one that runs from West
Virginia to Pennsylvania. So I could run an individual on
you know, up and down from Hagerstown, Maryland or Westport,
Maryland to Chambersburg, Pennsylvania. But I couldn't run them up
north of the Pennsylvania line, and I couldn't run them
(36:35):
south down to West Virginia to Martinsburg or what have you.
But I could run them down Interstate seventy to Baltimore
and run them through the Ton one and run them
in in this inner city Baltimore all day long. So Lee,
it just you know, it's one of those things. Again.
Things are adopted and it makes sense at the time,
but sometimes you need to step back away from and
start to figure out, Okay, now, what could just look
like what should it look like, how do we gain
(36:57):
the efficiencies out of it, how do we make sure
it we're safe, but introduce these individuals into an industry
where they're going to be able to have a great livelihood.
Got ya?
Speaker 1 (37:05):
And you know, is there anything else facing the freight
transportational justics industry that's on your radar that we might
have not talked about.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
Well, you know, I think there's there's a number of
different challenges out there. These MC numbers is a real
issue going back to freight theft and load load theft.
And we had Ken Riddle and with FMCSA here just
recently providing our members and overview of some of the
changes that they're making internally to be able to track
MC numbers. But that's just new entrants. I mean, we
(37:35):
need that for everybody that's involved that hasn't an MC
number or dot number to make absolutely sure that you know,
theft isn't taking place, somebody's MC number isn't being stolen
and freight being moved by somebody else, and then the
company that's you know, responsible for not getting paid. So
that's that again continues to be a real, real challenge
for the industry and a real opportunity. And then one
(37:56):
of the things that I'm really proud of and happy
to see from the Trump administry is the fact that
you know, I think we've we've finally silenced a little
bit of the independent contractor model. The independent contractor model
seems to be live and well, and the Trump administration
seems to support it. Where you know, we were under
some challenges under the previous administration as we as we
looked at the independent contractor So we're really happy to
(38:19):
see that, you know, we're back on good for good
footing with the Department of Labor, and the independent contractor
models is still being looked at and understood that that's
how a lot of these people in this industry got started,
you know, one person, one truck, and from there they
grew into a small fleet and then a larger fleet.
And so protecting the integrity of that independent contractor model
for the for our industry is really important.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
So, you know, in the beginning of the conversation, you
mentioned you found trucking through the rail industry. What made
you get into the rail industry? I guess you know,
how did you really start your journey within the freight markets?
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Well, unlike most people you talk about. I had absolutely
no family member that was a railroad. I just happened
to leave a college one day and take a friend
of mine to a career fair and he was looking
for a job pretty heavily. I wasn't. And I was
standing up a side of a recruiter for the Western
Maryland Railroad who started encouraging me and ask me what
I'm gonna seal with my life after school, and I
(39:16):
said I'm not sure. He said, well, why don't you
fill out an application while you're standing here? And he
finally convinced me to do so. And you knows, as
the story goes, the rest is history. I've told a
lot of people lee and speaking engagements around the country
that I've I've had the opportunity to provide over the years.
But I started out as a little boy playing with
trains and trucks that I've made a living with him
my whole life. So it's been it's been great.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
Well that's fantastic, you know. And and talking about your career,
I understand you're you're gonna be retiring from the TCA soon.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
Well, that is correct. We did make an announcement at
the board meeting in DC here two weeks ago that
I will be transitioning out of the TCA. I'll be
seventy in November, just so you know. And when I
stepped into the role four years ago, I stepped in
to phill. I was a chairman of TCI literally and
(40:05):
was retiring from DM Bowman Incorporated. And at that time,
an individual who was doing a really great job for
us had fallen really ill and decided that he was
going to step aside. And so I put a search
committee together and I was the head of the search committee.
I said, I felt a little bit like Dick Cheney
because the first thing, you know, everybody started to call
him in saying aren't you retired? Why don't you run
this thing for a while. So I had to recuse
myself from the search committee. But long story short, here
(40:28):
I am. It's been a wonderful opportunity for me and
my family. I tell everybody, hey, look, I'm you just
need to know I'm not saying this. This is this
may not be the final chapter for Jim Ward, but
for now it's my last full time final chapter. I
can assure you that right now. But it has been
a great experience. We have a great association, continue to
grow our membership, great great associate membership from industry suppliers,
(40:53):
and so everybody has been very supportive and very generous.
And I would just say that if you listen to
this and you're you're you're a quality individual that's interested
in the association world. Uh trupload president at gmail dot com,
send me a resume.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Okay. Uh So, what's the biggest thing you're going to
miss about your role at the TCAU once retirement takes hold?
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Well, Lee, I think people I've heard people say this
most of my career, and there's a lot of truth
to it. You know, once you get diesel in your blood,
I'm not just sure there's any way to extract it.
And so and and through that process of having diesel
in your blood and and and working in the industry
and meeting and and be it introduced to a lot
of people, it's a great it's a great industry made
(41:44):
up of a of a lot of individuals. So my
wife and I both we've made a ton of friends,
learned a lot continue to learn. That's you know, that's
probably would be that that that could be the biggest
thing that I miss is I love to learn and
in this industry, even as as mature as it is,
continues to evolve. I've told I told our board of
directors at TCA, you know, I always say, you know,
(42:07):
some of them want to see you say and some
of them, even though they haven't said this till we
probably want to see you go. But that being said,
if I was twenty years younger, I'd be standing here
explain and why you know I should still be the
one individual running this association because looking at it over
the next twenty years, in the transformation that this industry
is going to go through, I think it's going to
be pretty amazing and I think we're going to see
some of the best times we've ever seen it. So
(42:28):
I'm sorry I'm going to miss that.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
Well, the industry is going to miss you too, and
probably you know, especially your I have advocacy that you've
done over the years, whether it's as a CEO of
a trucking company or there at the TCA, So you know,
that's very commendable. You know, this is something I always
like to ask my guests towards the end. You know,
(42:52):
do you have a favorite book about the transportation industry
or leadership that's kind of close to your heart that
you've read.
Speaker 2 (42:58):
Well, I don't know if it's about to transfer tation industry,
but and this may surprise you, but I'm a continuous
improvement guy, and early on in my career I was
tapped by a CEO and sent to a meeting in Orlando,
Florida for four days. And the facilitator of this meeting,
i'd heard the name, but I really wasn't familiar with him,
(43:20):
but it was W Verge Demo, and so I spent
four days in this meeting with a lot of mostly
the people were from NASA, learning about continuous improvement and
statistical process control, which I had to take twice in college.
And I do have to tell you it probably had
the greatest impact on my career of anything that I'd
ever participated in. And so anytime a new book comes out,
(43:42):
I just finished reading John Cotter's book on Change. I
know it came out right right after kind of after COVID,
but that's what I like, and I like reading about
businesses and the transformation of businesses and what make businesses ticked.
But I would tell you in that seminar with W
Verards Deming, was probably life changing. I went on to
read a lot about Joseph Duran. I had a chance
(44:05):
to meet one of one of Deming's individuals that he
basically had tutorly tutored, you know, along the way and
had consulted with General Motors and a number of different companies.
And so it's been it's been a great experience. And
I'm here to tell you that that philosophy and those
principles of continuous improvement tie into no matter what business
you're in, whether you're in transportation, financial services. I mean it,
(44:28):
there's a lot of truth that can be applied from
learning from individuals like w. Evers and Deming, Joseph Duran
and some of those individuals that is truly applicable to
the business world still today.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
Absolutely, And before I let you go, does does TCA
have any like major events and conferences that are holds
throughout the year.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
Matter of fact, we do our annual meeting, which will
probably be my swan song is February twenty eighth to
March third. It'll be at the Gaylord in Kissimmi, Florida,
Kissing Me Florida. So that's our next opportunity. And then
if you're in Canada. We have a Bridging Barrier Boarding
Borders meeting we hold every year for our Canadian members
(45:12):
up in Canada, and that is going to be November.
I'm not sure if it's Nathan. I go to the
go to GCA's website. It's truckload dot org and you'll
be able to see all the events that we have
coming up. So really appreciate you asking Lee, And if
anybody who's out and takes a look and has any questions,
why please don't hesitate to reach out to me or
(45:35):
one of the stampup. We'd be happy to talk to you.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
All right. Thank you so much, Jim for your time
and insights today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
You as well, Lee anytime. I certainly appreciate all Bloomberg
does for our industry as well, So thank you very much, and.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
I want to thank you for tuning in. If you
liked the episode, please subscribe and leave a review. We've
lined up a number of great guests for the podcast,
so please check back to hear conversations with C suite executives, shippers, regulators,
and decision maker within the freight markets. Also, you want
to learn more about freight transportation. Check out our work
on the Bloomberg Terminal at Bigo and on social media.
(46:08):
This is Lee Clascal siding Off and thanks for talking
transports with me. Talk to you next week. Bye,
Host
Lee Klaskow
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