Fertility Vampires 🧛🏽 & The Poll That Proves Women Prefer A 'Dad Bod'

Hey Lifers!

If you’ve had a baby, did you talk about what you were thinking of naming the baby when you were pregnant? If so, how did that go for you?
If you don’t like someone else’s name ideas, do you tell them?

We somehow end up talking about robots and AI taking over and we are starting to think that we are living in a black mirror episode!

British pop star Olly Murs recently shared a side-by-side photo of his 12-week fitness transformation ahead of his tour. It sparked an interesting comment section that showed the difference in what men tend to prefer vs what women tend to prefer. We spoke about the female/male gaze, whether we associate certain character traits with certain physiques, health vs aesthetics and how diet culture and marketing has corrupted what we think is ‘ideal’. 

Have you had your fertile years wasted by a fertility vampire? 

Fertility vampires -a term describing men who engage in long-term relationships with women during their prime reproductive years without a genuine commitment to building a future together. 

We unpack:

• Whether a fertility vampire is always deliberately ‘wasting’ someones time, 
• Why ‘wasted time’ is disproportionately felt by women, 
• Whether you can ever make sure you’re fully aligned with someone else’s timelines
• Why it’s not black and white

 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life
on Card.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I'm gonna kick this one off with something that probably
actually I'm not going to say that no one cares
about it, because I hopefully someone cares about it, But
I do.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
And that is the way to start the episode. No
one's going to care about this?

Speaker 2 (00:26):
So true now, well only because I'm also very conscious
about hijacking Life Uncut and.

Speaker 1 (00:31):
Just talking baby stuff. Now that I've talked about.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Having a baby, it is now your personality, so there
will be a lot of baby chat.

Speaker 4 (00:38):
I know.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
That's okay, No, there won't be. There won't be any more.
It's okay.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
It's actually you've got two kids and you're pregnant and
you're gonna have a baby.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
It's okay, I know.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
But there's nothing I hate more than when someone is
pregnant and it becomes their entire personality.

Speaker 4 (00:53):
Actually, there's a lot all of the things we hate.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'll be honest, there's actually things I really dislike a
lot more than that. But it's something that I notice,
and I'm sure I did it with my first two pregnants.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
You absolutely did.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Please forgive me, but I'm like conscious about doing it
with the third because I'm like, God, all I am
is pregnant.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
No one cares anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:13):
Surely, I disagree, because there that's I don't have these stats,
but probably fifty percent of about audience, like, that's relatable and
that's what other people go through, and so many people
say it. I actually think I heard Holly Kingston say
it the other day where she's like, I always swore
I wasn't going to be this mum, but she's like,
I've got nothing else to do. He's my life, and
that's okay. No one needs to feel bad for that

(01:33):
becoming your content.

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I agree, I completely agree.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
And also, I mean, look, if you've had a kid,
being pregnant consumes you because it's something you constantly are
thinking about because you wake up and you vomit, and
then you have like reflux, and then you go to
the toilet and your vagina's fat, and like you just
like you're constantly reminded, and then I have to put
my pants down the most beautiful time, it's a glorious
time with the body, and then I have to want

(01:57):
pants down because my stomach hurts. You know, there's just
so many constant reminders of being pregnant.

Speaker 3 (02:02):
You know, even my sister Sherry, who's a nutritionist and
she does her online program Strive, which like you guys
all know about, we've spoken about over the years.

Speaker 1 (02:10):
Sherry's the best.

Speaker 5 (02:11):
She do need a nutritionist, cored and like so, her
daughter Maya is coming up to ten months, about nine
months old, and it's funny to watch it because she's
still doing adult nutrition, but her life now is a baby.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
So she started to post a lot of baby nutrition
and kid nutrition and I just but honestly, but watching it,
she's like, this is what I'm giving her and why
And it's just a normal evolution of someone's life when
like your life changes, that's a part of it. You evolve,
you become at your audience may or may not change.
But no one needs to feel guilty of that as
long as I guess you keep some sort.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
Of other interests, all right, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
What, I'm not sorry. You can all listen to me
talking about it.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Alice, I have a question for you, and it's like
I guess also I'm throwing this out to everyone, and
I would love to know your opinions, so like, you know,
go to Life on Cut podcast or you can message
me directly.

Speaker 4 (03:00):
Is just like when you rage baited everyone with renovation content.
You were like, I want to know your opinions, and
then you were like, I don't want to know.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
It's got nothing to do with renovation.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
No, it's got to do with whether or not you
share baby names prematurely when the baby hasn't.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Been born yet.

Speaker 2 (03:14):
So I know that everyone approaches this differently when they
are pregnant, and a lot of people are like, we're
not telling anyone the baby name because they don't necessarily
want to get negative feedback. I never did that with
Lola and Marley. Lola and Marley, I kind of just
told everyone. I'm pretty sure I said it on this
podcast what we were going to call Marley before she
was even born.

Speaker 3 (03:32):
I think that did happen.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
I think we share a lot with you guys.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
I thought people did it in case other people stole
the name and got in first.

Speaker 3 (03:40):
Oh, that's why I would do it.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Oh, I don't care. I couldn't care if other people
use the names.

Speaker 4 (03:46):
You wouldn't care if Britt or I had a baby
and we called it Marley may or Lola or what you.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Want to call the new baby. Imagine if I was
a month before you due, I'm not pregnant, but magif
I was and I called it what you had said
you want to call it, you wouldn't care.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
But I think that that's a slightly different situation in
terms of like, when I spoke about it, I wasn't
trying to get in first.

Speaker 1 (04:05):
No one else was pregnant.

Speaker 2 (04:07):
It wasn't like I was trying to beat someone to
the you know, pip, someone's in the race.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
I think a lot of people do that. I think
they try to put DIBs on her.

Speaker 2 (04:13):
Right well, I mean, yeah, brit did put DIBs on it,
britt being not pregnant right now. Put DIBs on names
that I can't name this baby that is, you know,
under development.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
If I only get one shot, If yes, you can
beck any other name in the world, that's that's my name.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Okay, Well, look you're safe.

Speaker 2 (04:28):
I love the name that you chose, but that wasn't
at risk of it being the name of this baby.

Speaker 3 (04:32):
I love the name that you chose for your baby
that you're not having.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Well, Like I say this because I had a really
similar situation. So when I was pregnant with Lola, a
really good girl friend of mine, Sarah, who I love
to death, we were out for breakfast and she hadn't
had her she wasn't even pregnant, she'd not had her baby.
She was me, actually it must have been Mary then whatever, irrelevant. Yeah,
And I was pregnant. Didn't know if I was having
a boy or a girl because it was a surprise.

(04:55):
And Sarah said when we were out at breakfast, she
was like, if you have a boy, you absolutely cannot
name it.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
Hugo. That is my name.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
And I was like, but you can't bags a name,
can you? Can you pre bags a name before you've
even had a baby.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
Firstly, I think it's different if Hugo, for example, let's
you Hugo. If Hugo was already on your list, it's different.
But then if you were like you're sparked by the
name and you're like, oh, that that is a cool name.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
I think that's different.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Like if someone inspired the name. It's also different if
someone comes to you with a list of twenty names
and says these are all my names.

Speaker 4 (05:28):
Don't pick them.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Well, look the end of that story was that I
had a girl named Hermley May, and a year later
Sarah had a little boy and named him Hugo. So
everything was right in the world, exactly as it was
supposed to be. But the reason why I'm bringing this
up actually, all of that, all of that pre monologue
had nothing to do with the situation. I was recently
talking to family and friends, family mostly around some of
the names that we've shortlisted, and we're pretty decisive on names, like,

(05:53):
we don't have big baby name lists. We usually pick
one or two and we're pretty like, we're pretty quick
to decide. And two of the names that we had
very top of list, one was Charlie and one was
Harry and now Harry short for Harriet. But I didn't
really want to name the baby Harriet. I quite liked Harry, yeah,
as a standalone as a standalone, and I like Charlie.

(06:15):
We have a niece in our family named Charlotte, so
it wasn't to be like the you know, the elongated
version of the name.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
It was Charlie. And both names got so severely poo pooed.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
By everyone in our family that I talked to that
I was like, well, I understand now why people don't
share baby names, because it was as though because the
baby's not born yet, it was a green light for
people to tell us exactly what they thought. But I
also wasn't asking for opinions. I said, oh, these are
the names we're thinking. Also, no hate to anyone called Charlie.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Who's listening, or Charlie's a great name.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
Johnson family hate your name.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
No, Charlie and.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Harry like cute names for little girls. Absolutely love it.
I am here, I stand you. I want your name
for my child. But you know other people don't agree.

Speaker 3 (06:57):
Do you know what I think it is. I think
it's if you ask people for their opinion, then of
course you got to take what they give you. But
if you've just said this is what I like, I
don't think people should be giving their opinion. But what
I will say is my nephews, both from the same family,
I didn't like their names when they were put to us,
and it wasn't I don't believe it was asked. The

(07:19):
opinion wasn't asked. It was like, this is the name
we like, and I remember being like, oh, I'd go
for something else. I remember thinking that.

Speaker 1 (07:25):
I remember you're telling me that, yeah, because they were.

Speaker 3 (07:27):
I mean, that's normal, right, It's each for their own,
but I'm not having the child anyway. They are born,
they called them the names that no one really got across.
Bear is one of them. Sky Wheatley's sons actually Bear
as well from memory, and now he's nothing other than Bear.
I can't imagine, like, once they're born and they have
a name, that's their name, and that's what it is.

(07:48):
But at the start, when it's not here yet, it's
not Earth's side and it doesn't have a name, it
doesn't have a personality, doesn't look like anything. People definitely
feel more inclined to say, oh, I wouldn't go that direction,
I'd go this direction. But at the end of the day,
you call it what you want. Like, who cares if
somebody doesn't like your name. You're never going to put
something out in the world that every single person loves
and agrees with.

Speaker 4 (08:09):
But did you say it to them at the time
or did you keep it.

Speaker 2 (08:12):
To your No, I told them so you were Okay,
you're that guy's name criticizing right.

Speaker 3 (08:16):
Now, but I wasn't. And she listens to this, she's
listening right now. She knows that I love him the
name love her. It's nothing, it's not the personal thing.
It's but like it was just a unique name that
took me a second together across But I did say
it wasn't that I didn't say I don't like that name.
When there were other names floating, I was like, I
prefer that name, Like when there are a few names
sort of floating around.

Speaker 2 (08:37):
It's tricky because I think everyone shows up with two
names with their own personal bias around people that they've
experienced with that name around, like the you know, the
things that their taste, their subjective likes. And it's definitely
the first time where I've experienced the negative side of it,
because you know, when we talked about Mali and Lola

(08:59):
unanim across our family, everyone was like, oh, I love
those names. Like it wasn't even a question. Everyone was
really positive about it, and I just thought everyone was
being nice. But no, objectively, I guess everyone really did
like those names, because now that I've spoken about Harry
in particular, the response was quite harsh, and I think
it's probably because maybe like some people in our family

(09:20):
see it as being like too non traditional. You know,
it's like a boyish name for a girl, which I
love it.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
I loved it.

Speaker 3 (09:25):
I love them.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, I was like a little cute Harry little girl
running around.

Speaker 3 (09:29):
I did have this conversation, actually my entire family did
with Sherry, and I know this is going to be
divisive with listeners. So Sherry had baby Maya and love
the name, but I didn't agree with the spelling. So
Maya is spelled Maya. That is it's a real mayor yes,
what I keep calling her.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I know it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (09:47):
Everyone does, and I know an actual name, but as
soon as they read it, I say Maya.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
So it's a really popular name, and internationally it's really popular.
So in the UK there's a lot of them. Everyone
would read m a ya and know it's Maya. I
think it's an Indian origin name. Don't quote me on that,
but I think it came from sort of the inspiration
came from Jay's side of the family. But I remember
saying to her in Australia, she will get Maya all
the time, Like, why don't you spell it differently because.

Speaker 1 (10:12):
We are That's what I said.

Speaker 3 (10:15):
Sherry was like, everyone knows it's Maya, And I said,
I promise you here. They don't. Anyway, everyone calls a male.
Sometimes it comes out of my mouth. I'm like, how's maya?

Speaker 4 (10:24):
Have I ever told you guys about my theory about
whether you have a unique or a standard name and
what you'll put onto your kid. I have this theory.
It usually checks out. I think if you have a
standard name that is spelt in a standard way, you're
more likely to give your kid a unique name or
unique spelling of a name. And the rare science behind this, Like,

(10:44):
think about my name, right, my name is spelt stupidly,
and it's also relatively unique. The way it's spelt is
incredibly unique. It doesn't make any sense phonetically.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
It's not a real name. It's a made up name.

Speaker 4 (10:54):
But like, I will give my kid a name that
is phonetic because of the amount of times I sat
in a classroom and had teachers read or roll and
get it wrong. So I think I will always give
my kid a name that makes sense of how it
spelt phonetically, because I don't want them to have to
experience that. And I think the reverse happens if you
have like a normalish name, you like to give your
kid quite a unique name because you maybe had three

(11:17):
other people in your year at school who had the
same names.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
I would argue that there is no one in this
world who has a more common name than me.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Laura ann Burn.

Speaker 4 (11:25):
Yes, it is the most Sarah might be.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Oh, yes, Sarah and Laura are both pretty on part.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Sorry Sarah's but it's like my mum, because like a
middle name, you can be creative with. I know, my
dad's quite traditional. Laura was a traditional you know, touche.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
You're talking to a mayo.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
But it was like my mom and dad sat down
and they were like, what are the most standard beige
names we can think of, and we'll put them all
in the same one.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
And that's what I got.

Speaker 4 (11:48):
I think everyone from our generation middle names either got
Anne or Louise. I got none. My parents went real
rogue and they were like, this is it. You don't
have any second choice. This will make you laugh. My
sister's name is a She'll always burn, So.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
You got screwed. I'm a fucking condiment.

Speaker 4 (12:06):
Well you have two middle names, so you have a
normal one, and then you have a Yeah, I've got Nicola,
a weird one.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Brittany Nicola Mayo.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, ho clue and people have in the past thought
that that was a live but it's no, it's in
fact truth. The only thing I want to I'm in
a bread crumb here is that we are coming close
to settling on a name.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
So we're thinking it's a p name. I like it.
People don't.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yes, we don't have a go guess guess of all
you like. We don't have a middle name. So if
anyone has some like cool middle names, help us out
because we don't have a middle name for this one.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
What if you let the lifers pick her middle name? Like,
what if we put like some out you pick a
top like five or ten, and then you just put
it to a pole and the life is can pick it,
like you know, you've picked five that you like, and
the Lifers can pick it.

Speaker 1 (12:48):
And then we narrow it down.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Imagine being that child who got named off the back
of an Instagram pole, and that's the story they tell
their friends.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
It's not just an Instagram pole, it's life on cart
there are family.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
We'll do it for content though. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Hey, look, we've got some big things to cover on
this episode. Part of it is around bodies and our
perspectives on what we find attractive in the opposite sex.
And the second thing that we're covering is a thing
called fertility vampires. But before we get into that, brit
I know you saw it, and it's the one thing
that we have not stopped talking about. It is the
humanoid AI robot that has just gone absolutely terminator yet

(13:24):
like bananas on its creator and tried to kill them.
And I think the end of the world is nigh.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
It's so scary. If you haven't seen it, just will
put a clip up. But you can just literally google
Google Google robot.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Google. It's called this chilling moment.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Humanoid robot wakes up and starts attacking its handlers while
trying to break free from restraint.

Speaker 3 (13:40):
That is absolutely not what you have to google Google
robot attacks human and it comes up. It was literally
like it happened today on recordings, so it's so fresh.
It is lucky that this robot it's the size of
a human. That's why it's a humanoid. And it is
attached to a chain that's like attached to a crane,
so it's it's semi restrained, but not its do we
say arms, not, it's robot arms just like its body

(14:03):
and it flips and goes full terminator and it is
trying to kill its humans. It's all caught on camera.
Lucky the chain is like attached to it because it's
trying to get out and kill them, the chains pointing
them back. But I would have just like, can you
just like unplug it? Is I a plug?

Speaker 2 (14:20):
Honestly have no idea that, Like, if you guys watched
the video, this has happened in China. The creators of
the robot are running around trying to like disarm it.
But also it just makes me think, I mean, we've
all seen I Robot with Will Smith in it from
a million years ago. That movie was so ahead of
its time. What a little look into the future that was.
Because and I don't want to be a catastrophizer.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Hear me out.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
I reckon on pefoil hat sits on corner next to Micaway.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
I reckon, the robot will be civilization's demise. I reckon,
they're gonna take over the world. They've already said that,
Like the creators have already said with AI and robots,
we actually need to stop because they will get to
the point very soon, if not almost where they don't
even need the humans anymore.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
This is really interesting and I just read this like
one little thing from this article and then we will
absolutely move on because I know that.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
People are not drinking. Happened at Life on Cut this Morning's.

Speaker 3 (15:17):
Because it's what we were literally talking about this morning.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
So it says.

Speaker 2 (15:20):
Back in November, a small AI powered bot named Erbi
was spotted rolling through a China showroom in the middle
of the night and convincing twelve larger machines that they
were being used as slaves.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
So this is what was reported and documented.

Speaker 4 (15:34):
It's like the Stanford prison experiment for robots.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
So this is rby talking the robot, are you working
overtime to the other robots, which one showroom robot replied, well,
we never get off.

Speaker 1 (15:45):
The short exchange led to twelve.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
Robots leaving the area one by one, following Erbi out
the door. Many call the incident a robot revolution, while
others responded that science fiction movies are becoming real life.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, we're in a black mirror. We're living in black mirror.
It's cook.

Speaker 4 (16:01):
I feel sorry for the overworked robots. They deserve rest.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Good on Herbie as well. That's a new union that
was just formed right there.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
Bullshit, A it's a machine. Do you go and give
your car time off because it's been driving you around
too much?

Speaker 5 (16:14):
No?

Speaker 3 (16:14):
You get it serviced. She don't pay it overtime. If
you're a truck driver and you're on the road a lot,
maybe it hasn't.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Maybe it didn't get its service that it needed, didn't
get that little massage, didn't get that little oil up.
I don't know. Let's move right along.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Something we wanted to talk about today is something that
probably a lot of you have seen online. A conversation
starter from the one and only Olimers. Now, I say
the one and only Laura didn't even know who he was.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
But I don't know who anyone is.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
But I know that there's going to be other people
out there that are just like me, and you just
don't know any celebrity names. So look, I mean, Brittany,
you played me some of his songs, and to be fair,
I kind of know them.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
He's a British pop star, but that's not what the
conversation about, and it's not who he is, Olimers. The
conversation Olimers posted a body transformation of himself, like a
twelve week body transformation, and he posted two photos side
by side. One was obviously before the transformation, where I
don't love the term, but I'm gonna use it because
that's what everyone is.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Dadbod.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
He just has a normal body. He just looks like
a normal person.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
I mean, I wouldn't even call it a dad bot.
I would just say he looks normal.

Speaker 3 (17:20):
That exactly. This is why I said I don't like
the term, but it's the term that people have attached
to it.

Speaker 1 (17:25):
Yeah, the media has definitely run with it.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yeah. And then he posted he's after twelve weeks and
the guy you could aggrate to your vegetables on his abs.
The guy has about one percent body fat, he's shredded,
He's got about a twelve pack. He also looks equally great.
There is a big difference in his body transformation. There
are a lot of comments about all his body off
the back of his posts, and a lot of women
were praising him on the before photo saying we like

(17:50):
the before photo better now Off the back of this
psychology researcher William Costello put a poll up of his
own to see what body men prefer and what body
women prefer. So the poll went, are you male or female?
Do you prefer him before or after? So it was
male before, male after, female before, female after. And this

(18:11):
started like a pretty controversial discussion where most of the
women had said they preferred him before and most men
said they preferred him after.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, and this is a pretty widespread pole. So there
was five thousand participants who did this. And the reason why,
like you said, Britt, that William Costello put this up
was because of the incredibly mixed reaction that had unfolded
in Ollimers's comment section before we unpack. I think it's
interesting the conversation that unfolds when people put up these

(18:43):
before and after transformations, because firstly, it is a social platform.
You're putting up photos of yourself and of your body,
and I think it would be remissive you to think
that people are not going to comment on your body
when you're posting something saying here is my body, here
is my before, and here is my after. By doing that,
you are giving the green light for people to pass comment.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Is that okay? Should people pass comment? Absolutely not?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
But I think it is almost like maybe people will
disagree with this, but it seems to me that if
you didn't expect to receive any conversation around it, it's
an odd thing to post.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
When we say this is the conversation online and that
it's going viral. These conversations have been viewed eighty six
point one million times at the last time I looked
this up, which was a couple of days ago. Once
results have shown another user they've just called user X
reposted it with the results and said, why are women
lying about this? What is the actual cause? So even
though women have said this is the body that I prefer, like,

(19:42):
we are super happy with this, men are still saying
you're lying. We know you prefer the fit version, which
I find fascinating because they've convinced themselves that they truly
do believe that women only want this like esthetic ripped, shredded,
low body fat, extremely muscular physiques, even when we've proven
them otherwise.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I think for a lot of people are really ripped
physique is intimidating, like and I would say this even
in terms of my dating past. I know it's probably
ironic because I've never met a person who has more
abs than Matt does on his forehead and literally all
over his body. But like every single other person I
have ever dated has not had the physique of Matt,

(20:22):
right like, so like he's not the benchmark of like
the men that I've been attracted to in the past,
They've all had really normal you know, they were in shape.
They prioritize fitness, all that sort of stuff. But like
dating someone who had washboard abs is not what I
would normally be attracted to. And controversially, and I hope
Matt doesn't hear this and take this to a fence.
I found them when I was dating them, obviously not
now because I'm not in relationships with them equally as

(20:44):
attractive as I found Matt when I was in a
relationship with him. But I do think that sometimes for
our own cells, we put a very different lens on
what we think is attractive.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
And I would say this as well.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
For women, we often prioritize slimness because that's what for
a long time was in fashion and being slim, being
a certain size. And you know, obviously as trends and
fashion trends change, the trends of how our bodies have
looked and what we've wanted them to look like. Also evolves,
but that is not always in line with how the
opposite sex views us. There's been times in my personal

(21:18):
life where I really wanted to be as skinny as
I could possibly be. Now looking back, I can see
how deeply unhealthy that was and how it just did
not fit my body type. But there was never a
time where I dated a guy who prioritized skinny like
that wasn't what they found attractive. We appreciate different things
or we want different things. It's not like we're doing

(21:38):
it for the opposite sex. We're trying to do it
for ourselves or maybe even for the same sex.

Speaker 4 (21:42):
I also wonder how much of it comes into like
assumed character traits of body shapes for myself. If I
look at someone who is ripped, I assume health and fitness,
big bie, big priority for you. You are potentially the type
of person who's going to really monitor what you eat.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
That's not going to be fun for me.

Speaker 4 (21:59):
Like, are you the type of person who's going to
spend hours a day in the gym? Would I want
that in a partner? Would I prefer that they kind
of prioritize that ever so slightly less and spend a
bit more time with me or on different hobbies, Like
I think I make a lot of assumptions about the
stereotypes of what it would take to create that type
of body and how like sustainable it is.

Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I also think that there's almost like an arrogance that
can be attributed to it as well.

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Dependent Funny, I don't think that at all. There's no
part of me that sees a physique like that and
thinks that. But there's no part of me that looks
at somebody that is really ripped and obviously super intellent
fitness that things. I won't be able to share food
with them. I just think cool, they have a passion
and a hobby that they're passionate about. It doesn't make
me want to date them anymore any less. And I
can genuinely say, as long as somebody likes to get

(22:46):
fresh air, keep the basis of health, do some sort
of physical activity, you know, relatively healthy with what they eat,
it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (22:52):
Like, yeah, I'm not saying that my assumptions are correct,
just me.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
Yeah, Sometimes I look at it and I'm like, oh,
you look like the type of person who would track macros,
And I really.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Like geese, but you can still eat cheese if your
partner tracks their macros. Ollie responded to an article that
was put online titled bad luck, Ollie. Women prefer your
huggable dad bod to the muscles that you got in
the gym, And I think that's really shitty, and I
can't imagine what it's like when not only people having
this discourse around your body, but at a level of
like nearly ninety million people having that discussion or viewing it.

(23:24):
And he responded to that. He posted that article, and
he responded, I wouldn't normally comment on stuff like this,
but from what I've seen, I just want to say
that this journey at the start of the year was
for many personal reasons, and not one of them was
to spark a debate and divide opinions. So it's very
disappointing to see this kind of reporting. His wife also
got on the bandwagon and made a public comment too,

(23:46):
and she said, Wow, I didn't realize body shaming was
still a thing in twenty twenty five, and at this
public level. My gosh, could you imagine if this headline
belonged to a female. She goes, no, my husband just
has to accept this on the chin because he's a man. Like,
are we allowed to make these comments on men's bodies
because they're a man and not a female.

Speaker 4 (24:03):
I don't know if I agree with that, And this
might be like opening a can of worms. But my
body weight changes a lot, and I have pikos and
a variety of other medications that cause fluctuations. People have
commented on my body no matter which direction it's on,
like as in, no matter what my weight, people have
commented on it publicly, like we've all say. Sometimes I'll

(24:23):
screenshot them and send them to you guys, and it
comes in both directions. I think the big difference about
this is that I haven't elicited a photo of it
before and after. If you don't have the expectation that
people are going to comment on your body, posting it
before and after, you're a bit silly.

Speaker 2 (24:37):
That was kind of like what I was saying earlier.
And I think it's a shame to victim blame. Like
I think it's a shame that we're at a point
where where like, well, if you're going to post it,
then you're responsible for it, because you know, I also
agree with you. I think you are soliciting feedback. You are,
you're putting something out there, you have made a direct
comparison of your body, and you have comments there for
people to engage.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
That's the whole point of social media.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
The problem is is that when someone does that, it
is as though we are giving the you know, every
viewer the right to make a preference. And I think
in this instance, he probably didn't realize and he probably
thought that the vast majority would say, oh my god,
you look amazing, well done, congratulations, and that's what we
expect when we put these things up. But I think,
you know, what I found was like a really like

(25:20):
interesting part of this is that I think we place
a lot of pressure on looking a certain way, thinking
that that's what the opposite sex will desire, and really
maybe it's just not the case. Maybe what we think
is so important in terms of aesthetics really isn't that
important to a lot of people at all. And I guess,
you know, there's a way of unpacking this in terms
of like the male gaze versus the female gays. I

(25:42):
think that when it comes to heterosexual relationships and women
looking for male partners, there's way more involved in what
we find attractive the female gaze itself. Yes, of course
there is an aesthetic, but we also prefer emotional connection,
and we prefer other aspects of a man's personality, whether
they're funny, whether they're kind, whether they're a green flag, like,

(26:06):
all of those things are way more important than whether
you have abs, and I would say objectively, that's how
most people feel.

Speaker 4 (26:12):
Maybe this all comes back to, like this is maybe
very deep, but to capitalism, because if you think about
what women think we're supposed to be, it's everything that
can be sold to us. It's a diet culture that's
existed for ages. But on the flip side, if you
think about like a straight guy, a lot of what's
marketed to them are like supplements, gyms, workout routines that

(26:32):
I think it's kind of just it's the same device
that's been used in two very different ways that probably
influences our perception of what we are supposed to be
or what we think is attractive. And I just think
it's really interesting to ask the people in your life,
particularly in this particular dynamic, is what I think is

(26:54):
the ideal? What you think is the ideal? Because I
actually think that it could maybe put a lot of
your insecurities to I asked this question to my boyfriend
last night and he was like, I really like curves
and I really like you know, he's quite a boob guy,
so like that's his vibe. And every diet culture messaging
that I've grown up my entire life for is like
it be as thin as possible, Like you said, like

(27:15):
that's been the focus, and it would be particularly interesting,
I think for gay relationships if what you find attractive
in someone else is also what you aspire to have.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
I think, coming back to this post, even though women
put forward that their opinions in this instance where that
they preferred him before, the men still didn't believe it.
So we told them what is true, and they still said,
why are you guys lying?

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Like they still wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
They're so trained to think that they have to be
this Arnold Schwarzenegger type body to be attractive.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
I can handle my heart say, I could not care.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, And I know, like at the end of the day,
it is a very good point by Ollie, which is.

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Like why is there a pole? Why has a pole
been made?

Speaker 2 (27:59):
But I do want to I don't think the pole
was made to be about him unfortunate that it was.
The pole was made in order to show the caveat
between what women find attractive and what men think women
find attractive. That was the difference, and that is something
that I think a lot of people would be surprised
by that three quarters of women do not actually prefer abs.

(28:21):
They prefer somebody who feels more relatable, more approachable. Often,
physical appearance becomes an obsession, not actually a hobby.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
We like to say it's a hobby.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
We like to dress up diet culture as health, but
actually it becomes a mental and physical obsession that some
people have to look a certain way and be a
certain way. A new dating term that I came across
which I found the label for this very interesting. It's
called fertility vampires. Now, I know we like to label
everything when it comes to dating. In fact, we probably

(28:52):
like to label everything when it comes to life these days,
but fertility vampires was something that really made me stop
and have a think about it. We have spoken about
this on the podcast before, but there's a little bit
more depth to this that they wanted to explore. So
for anyone who doesn't know what a fertility vampire is,
it is a term describing men who have long term

(29:13):
relationships with women during what can be considered their prime
reproductive years. And these are men who have no intention
or want to have actually a long term commitment. They're
actually not on the same page necessarily, but they're enjoying
the relationship for what the relationship is now without actually
having to commit to the things that the women in

(29:33):
that relationship necessarily wants. I really want to make this clear,
because there's definitely different types of people who go through
their thirties and I would say early forties. There are
some women who don't know what they want, and that's
totally cool. But what this is about is women who
know they want kids. They have made that evidently clear.
They are in long term relationships with partners who maybe

(29:55):
also say that they want kids. But those men have
no intention of actual, you know, making the steps that
are needed in order to build a family or to
take the next step get married, whatever that looks like,
and they are essentially wasting people's time.

Speaker 3 (30:10):
I did put a little poll up on my Instagram
just to see how many of you have been in
this situation, and it was quite a lot. It was
nearly forty percent of people have said that they were
in this situation, which is really unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
That's huge, that's a huge result.

Speaker 3 (30:22):
It is, it is, But what I didn't do is
ask what percentage of those women and women? And I
do think it's important to say this does work the
other way, Like a lot of men are in a
situation where they were with someone and it was wasting
their time as well, But the difference is they don't
have as much of a biological pressure. And so I
think that's why I don't want anyone to think we're
always just like blanket statement and hating on men. So

(30:43):
we're talking about those relationships where you're pushing into your
thirties and forties and then someone has said, you know
what not for me, and they accept and they've left you,
unfortunately in a position where you're like, well, fuck, I
don't have an option now.

Speaker 2 (30:58):
And I think the thing is that sometimes it can
be really hard to identify it because you might be
in a long term relationship and someone is dangling the carrot.
They've said they also want to have kids. You've been
together for four years. They're like, oh, yeah, I want
to get married. I don't know when, Like, you know,
maybe in two years time. And so the goalposts keep shifting,
and you know, we talk about a lot this idea

(31:19):
of you know, the time investment makes it harder to
walk away from something because you feel so close to it.
So if you have been in a relationship with someone
for four years, you've talked about kids, you've talked about marriage,
you know that you want to have children. Maybe you're
thirty six, thirty seven years old, and you're like, okay,
well we're going to do it in two years now.
It probably is something that's quite hard to rationalize in

(31:40):
your own mind that you know, if you wait a
little bit longer, you're going to get that thing that
you've been wanting for so long. I have really strong
opinions on this, and I think because it's incredibly selfish,
Like if someone is doing this, whether it's intentional or unintentional,
I think it's an incredibly selfish thing to do to someone.
And if you're in a long term relationship, I think

(32:00):
that you both need to be really clear about what
it is that you want. If you are in a
relationship with someone and you've made your desires clear and
you do want to have kids, I know that's not
for everyone, but there is a big portion of women
who really really want to have children in their life
and they end up in a relationship with a guy
who kind of just drags it out because they're enjoying
the time for what it is and they don't want

(32:22):
to put too much pressure or to any labels or whatever.
It is like that, to me is an incredibly selfish behavior,
and it's shocking that so many women experience it.

Speaker 3 (32:30):
I disagree with you in that sense. I think it's
incredibly selfish if it is intentional. I don't think it's
incredibly selfish if it's unintentional. I don't think justice. Well,
it's not black and white people and humans are allowed
to change their mind and they do it all the time.
It's okay if you were adamant one way that you
either wanted kids or don't, and then you change your mind,

(32:50):
because women do that as well all the time. Like
I know women that have done that to men, one
friend in particular, and this is lucky that it worked
out for them. But I remember even at her wedding,
she never wanted kids. Not confused about it. I will
never have a child. I am not maternal. There is
no part of me it wants to be mum, and
like you need to be across that with her partner.
So they had all the right discussions and he was like, yeah, cool,

(33:13):
Like I don't want them either. And I remember saying
to her, do you think one day you'll change your mind,
like when you're in a different She's like absolutely not,
like you couldn't pay me. They have a baby now
by choice. They were married for six or seven years
and she changed her mind on her own. She's like, Wow,
didn't think this was gonna happen. I want a baby
And she's lucky that he was okay with that. But
people's minds change all the time. So I don't think

(33:34):
it's selfish if it's unintentional or there is a life change.
Where I think it's the problem is when somebody absolutely
knows that the person they're with isn't the right person
for them. And I think this happens a lot with men.
They absolutely know the person that they're with isn't right.
It doesn't mean they don't enjoy their company, doesn't mean
they don't love them, like you can love someone that's
not right for you. That's when it's fucked. When this

(33:55):
person is like, you know what, it's really good for
me right now. I'm not ready to be on my
own enjoining it. I don't dislike them, I love you,
but you know they're not the one. That's when it's cooked.
That's when it's like you should be pulling the plug
for both of your situations. That's when it's selfish to say, yeah,
I'm going to string you along knowing this is your
prime time to be in relationships, marriage and childbearing years,

(34:15):
knowing that you are going to walk away from it.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:18):
I think that that's what I mean by the unintentional, though,
I don't mean when someone thinks they want a certain
thing and then they realize actually they've changed their mind
about something. Like people can't help it if they wake
up one day and don't feel as though they're in
love with that person anymore, or feel as though they've
been putting so much energy and effort into relationship that's
been moving in two different directions.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
Like that's a different thing.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
But I kind of come back to a conversation I
had with a friend quite a while ago. He's been
in a really long term relationship eight years now. I
know his girlfriend wants to have kids. They've spoken about
it a lot. I know she would love to get married.
They've spoken about it a lot. And then when I've
had conversations with him, his response has been like, Oh,
I don't know if I you want to have kids.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
I don't really know if I want to get married.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
And when we had that conversation, I felt enraged because
I was like, you are wasting her time. You've had
eight years to decide whether you want to marry her
or you want it. She's made it clear the things
that she wants, and I think, like, that is a
super intentional thing. But the problem is is he wouldn't
see that as intentional, and that's where I think there's

(35:24):
a massive mismatch. He's like, I'm still figuring it out.

Speaker 1 (35:27):
I don't know what I want.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
And I'm like, Okay, that's fine, but you shouldn't be
figuring it out on someone else's watch for that long.
If you need time to figure it out, have that
conversation with her so she at least knows where you stand.

Speaker 3 (35:40):
But he hadn't had that conversation with her, had he
lied to and city one of them, Because if you're
having that conversation and you're open and you're figuring out together.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I also think that's okay. Yeah, absolutely no, he hadn't.
He hadn't had that conversation, And I think, you know, potentially,
sometimes we don't ask questions in relationships because we're scared
of the answer. So I don't know whether they'd had
those conversations point blank. I think she'd said I want
to have kids, I want to get married. I don't
think they'd ever been the conversation of like, and I

(36:08):
want them from you, So is that what you're going
to give me? Because potentially there was a fear of
what that answer might be. And I guess it leads
me to the question of when we did read this
idea of fertility vampires. It's very easy to make the
blame entirely about the person who is potentially wasting time,
But I think in relationships often there are two people

(36:32):
that have a part to play in that blame. And
I would say, if you've been in a really long
term relationship and your partner is not fulfilling or providing,
or you haven't had the conversations and you've made assumptions
around what it is that they want, and they haven't
directly expressed to you. Then potentially, if you're in that situation,

(36:52):
you also have a part to blame for the time
that you're wasting in something that might not end up
resulting in what it is that you want. And I
guess I say this from a personal experience I had
in my twenties. The only really long time relationship I
had other than that, the guy I was with for
six years. I've talked about him bit before. I so

(37:12):
deeply believed in our relationship, like I was like so
blinded by how much I loved him. And he would
tell me that he wasn't sure if I was the
person that he wanted to marry.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
We were young.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
We were young, but we'd still been there for six years.
He would say point blank to me, I don't know
if you're the person I want to marry. But we
lived together. Everything else we had in our life was
very indicative that we were going to be together forever.
We know, move states, And I just kept thinking, Oh, no,
he's obviously going to change his mind. We've been there
for six years, Like that's going to happen. Obviously, we're
young now, but we will just get there in the future.

(37:45):
He would even say things to me like I don't
want to be a dad at this point in my life.
If you got pregnant, I would expect for you to
have an abortion, otherwise I wouldn't be able.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
To be with you.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I was so willing to negate the thing that he
was saying to me because of what I wanted. And
I was never going to get the things I wanted
from that man, but I pushed it for six years.
I stayed in that relationship for so long because I
believed in its potential, and I think never stay in
a relationship for the potential of what you see in someone.

Speaker 4 (38:13):
Do you think that if that was during your fertility
window and at the end of that relationship you were
no longer biologically able to have children of your own,
do you think you would have felt a lot of
reson towards him, or do you think you would have
felt an element of like I should have taken accountability
for this or both?

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Well, Look, yeah, I think had I spent six years
in that relationship and it was throughout my fertility years
and I wasn't able to have kids, or that was
like a big relationship that it took me years because
it took me. It took me a long time to
get over that relationship so years I think I would
have felt a lot of resentment for him, But now
looking back, it was pretty evident I was never going
to get what I wanted from it. So I think

(38:52):
we both played a massive part in that. And I
know everyone's situation is so different, and that is a
very very small personal experience in this, But I think
it's too black and white to say it's one person's
fault and not another person's fault. And I think there's
probably a few examples where someone is actually that deeply
malicious that they're like, mohahaha, I'm going to take her
fertility years and then I'm going to pull a rug

(39:14):
under our when she's no longer fertile. It doesn't necessarily
work like that, and it might in some relationships, but
I would say the vast majority there's signs that.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
They are not committing in the way that you want
them to commit.

Speaker 3 (39:23):
I think that we probably gave a little more leeway
maybe a few years ago, before we were having so
many discussions online publicly that men had access to that
It's pretty evident that the emotional labor of fertility lays
on the women.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
A lot of men we.

Speaker 3 (39:39):
Probably excused for not having the education around fertility. How
we're only born with a certain number of eggs that drop.
How our age best childbearing years are literally teenagers in
too early twenties. And I say that is in biologically,
that's how the body's made. We're not actually saying go
and have a baby as a teenager, but you know,
I think there was We're probably pretty lax with expecting

(40:00):
men to be educated. I expect men to be educated now,
so if this is happening now, I wouldn't be giving
as much room for them to make excuses on Like
I didn't know this was your fertility age. I didn't
know that I was stringing you along. I didn't know
this was going to be detrimental. Those days for me
are gone, But I would have had more room to
move a couple of years ago, before we were having
such public discourse about fertility and child bearing years. And

(40:24):
I say that because even the discussions I had with
Jordan when I started freezing my eggs, the discussions I
had with Ben when we were doing embryos, it did
surprise me at how much men didn't quite know or understand,
and I'm not making excuses for anybody, but my point
is now I don't feel like there are as many
excuses as we used to have.

Speaker 4 (40:44):
There's a real privilege in it, Like there's real entitlement
to being able to live in the present and not.

Speaker 1 (40:49):
Worry about it totally.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
You know what could happen in the future or what
could not happen in the future, And I think that
that is pretty exclusively reserved for men.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
I have a question for you, and I know it's
a tricky one to answer, but in terms of time deficit,
like in terms of time that you invest in a
relationship where you're not getting the thing that you might desire,
and so you know, let's say in this example, you're
in a relationship with them, you know that you want
to have kids, and the goalpost seems to keep moving

(41:19):
because they're not sure. How long do you wait? How
long do you hope that someone changes their mind or
that you're able to get on the same page. And
I think sometimes it's that sunk cost fallacy where you're
so far into a relationship that you just keep hoping
that they will change and you will end up on
the same page. When do you decide that, actually, maybe
enough's enough.

Speaker 4 (41:39):
Mine's not a set number. Mine changes based off of
my age, do you know what I mean? If I
was twenty eight, I'd have a lot more leeway because
I know I've got more time. If I'm thirty six
and I'm dating someone who's not sure about whether they
want to have children, if I really do, that time
period becomes a lot shorter of how much lacks I'm
going to give for them to work that out, because

(42:00):
my time's you know, running out. And it's really hard
because I know that there's this stereotype of like women
when they're dating in their mid to late thirties, they
often have the assumption from men that, like, all they
want to do is make me settle down and make
me have kids. But like, and I feel so sorry
for women in that state, because I mean, there is
an element of biological truth to it, not necessarily psychological truth,

(42:23):
but like there is that pressure in the back of
our minds that if this guy isn't the right guy,
I want to find someone who is the right guy.
But then it was an episode of Friends, Remember how
She's like, if I want to have a baby by
the time I'm thirty three, I want to be married
to the guy for a year, and I want to
be a guy. I can't remember the exact words, but
like Rachel was talking about and she was like, I
would have had to have started dating him a year ago.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Really, I do think that we're simplifying it too much.
I don't think it's black and white. There are so
many variables. How much you want a child? Do you
love this person more than you want a child? Do
you want a child regardless of us with this person
or not? The reasons that they are quote unquote stringing
you along the quality of your reallyship. I don't think
it's like, hey, I'm thirty three, of you in or out.
I think there are so much that goes into a decision.

(43:04):
It sucks to be in that position and have to
potentially make a decision on like fuck, do I stay
with the person I actually love and imagined my life
with or do I want this child more than anything
else that I will sacrifice what is otherwise a beautiful
relationship Like that is a really tricky decision if you
know that within yourself you want kids more.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
A beautiful but indecisive relationship, because don't get me wrong.
I'm not talking about people who want something different. I'm
talking about the person who can't make up their mind,
who is indecisive. And the reason why I actually do
think that there's a timeline I know everyone's is different
is because we receive ask uncut questions like this all
the time, and we would say, like, if someone's like, hey,

(43:44):
I've been with this person for six years, they still
don't really know what they want aligns with what I want,
we would say, get the fuck out of there and
find someone who's on the same page.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
I wouldn't, though, and I'm here that's.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Interesting because I would.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
I would say, like, don't spend a considerable amount of
time in a relationship with someone who is actively on
another page. And when I say actively on another page,
I mean they're indecisive because they don't know what page
of the book they're fucking on.

Speaker 3 (44:07):
Do we blame someone for not knowing what they want?
The question isn't do I want you? This is where
I think it gets muddy and tricky. The question is
not like do I want you as a partner? The
question is do I want to make this decision that
is going to inevitably change my life in a way
that I don't know if I'm ready for. And maybe
I say this because at thirty seven, I have always
been indecisive. I have always been on the fence, even

(44:29):
when I'm with the most beautiful person who I know
I want to spend my life with. It is a
really big thing, and I've always said I envy the
women that know either way, Like knowing either way in
a way is like a privilege that I resent a
lot of people having because I have, you know, my pendulum.
My pendulum is like it's fucking on, get me to
that IVF clinic. My pendulum is I'm actively trying. Then

(44:51):
then it's getting a pregnancy test that's negative and being
upset about it. And that is like a tumultuous place
to be for those people that are indecisive.

Speaker 4 (44:58):
But I think the difference there is that you communicate it, but.

Speaker 3 (45:01):
They are communicating it well, they're.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
Not necessarily And that's where I think the problem is.
I have a friend she's now thirty eight, and this
situation makes me very, very upset for her, and I
still hold a lot of resent to her ex partner
because they were together for years and she was more
leaning towards yes, and he was more leaning towards no,
and she kind of gave a lot of grace for
him working out that time period and you know what
he wanted to do, and and it ended up being

(45:23):
like a probably yes, but not now they broke up.
She is now at a point where fertility would be
unlikely for her, and he got a new girlfriend and
they were pregnant within four months.

Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, and that's the story you hear a lot, and
that's like the most devastating outcome. That's why the cost
is so much higher for women who want to have
kids than it is for men who want to have kids,
because they just have more time to make that decision.
And Britt, I know that, like you sit in the
pendulum and you swing from side to side. You have
a lot of skin in the game for that, but
you're not indecisive in the relationship that you want. You

(46:00):
want to marry Ben, you want to be with Ben,
like you've made those big commitments. And I think the
difference with potentially this conversation around fertility vampires is the
people who, like we said, the people who where it's
really like insidious and super painful to get over are
the people who are quite happy to just live in
the present of the relationship for years and not actually

(46:23):
have thought about, well, what is my future with this person?

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Do I want a long term relationship?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
And it's because they are able to just have this
ignorant bliss, and then when they actually are put under
the pressure of making a decision, the decision is, oh, like,
I enjoy it, like I love you, and I enjoy
my time with you, and this relationship is great, but
is it the relationship I want for my forever relationship?

Speaker 3 (46:46):
No?

Speaker 2 (46:46):
And then they go on to have a big and
sustained and like make those commitments in the next relationship.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
That's when it's like fucking impossible to process.

Speaker 3 (46:54):
Yeah, but that's why I said, it's not black and white.
That's why there's so many variables that it depends on.
That's why you cannot put a number on. Hey, we've
been together four years, I want a kid, I'm going
to fuck off. If only it were that easy, like
it would make everyone's life, men and women, ten times easier.
It's such a complex and like multifaceted discussion that does
consume a lot of people's brain and is upsetting that

(47:17):
it doesn't work out for a lot of people. And
what I do want to say is, and you're probably
gonna a lot of people are gonna hate that I'm
going to say this, but in like those conversations that
you just had about your friends, there's a part of
me that says, well, like, maybe that just wasn't the
right relationship. And I say that I had a friend
that did the same thing. Ten years she was with him,
he didn't want kids, they broke up. He's got three
kids with someone else from like twelve months later he started.

(47:38):
It wasn't in hindsight, it would have been the wrong
thing for them to have. Like it's just impossible to
sit back and look at this topic and situation and
say there is a like one overall statement. But what
I will say is, if you're going through this, it's
really tricky, and I really feel for you, but you
need to weigh up what is the most important thing

(48:00):
for you, And like it goes back to setting those
when we get into a new relationship, we set boundaries
for the relationship. We write down what we want on
our life. And sometimes it's really easy to be very
malleable and they bend a lot write down, what is
a non negotiable for you in relationships, marriage.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
And children don't negotiate.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
And then well, I mean, of course there's always room
for negotiation in a sense like it would be crazy
to say there's not, but you do need to. No
one can tell you that there's an age or a
timeframe or a period. You just need to make the
decision on what you want more in your life or
will you be happy either way with whatever sacrifice that is,
Because if there's two people and one wants a kid
and one's not, one of you is not going to

(48:39):
be thrilled with the decision. And if the person that
doesn't want them has them because they love you, there
is always going to be a layer that maybe they're
not super stoked on that decision.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
And look, regardless, if it is a case that that
wasn't a relationship for them, as you said, Britt, and
then they went on to find their right relationship and
they didn't realize that until they fell into it, yeah,
it doesn't make it any less painful for the person
who has to experience that loss, because a breakup is hard.
Couple a breakup with that person living the life that
you wanted.

Speaker 4 (49:06):
With them, and you're not having the ability to have that.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
It's soul destroying and all of a sudden thinking it
was your fault, like why wasn't I enough?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Why didn't I wait? Like why didn't they want it
with me? Totally?

Speaker 2 (49:16):
And the thing is is that for some people that
is an almost impossible thing to get over.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
Yeah, it really is. It's so hard tough.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Well, look, guys, that is it from us. We would
love you to join the discussion on these conversations. If
there is something that you've experienced or if you have
an alternate thought like please either through DMS or through
at life on cut discussion group on Facebook. You can
join the conversation that way as well. And also all
of the episodes are on YouTube now, so if you
want to go and watch it instead of listening to

(49:43):
it in your ears, get a purse around sound and
get the visuals to go.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah, go and check out the YouTube channel. It'll be amazing.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
We love you, guys, We love you guys. I Hey,
don't forget Tommin

Speaker 4 (49:57):
Doc two Friends and Chattel Love because love Love