Fertility 'Waiting Rooms' & Telling A Friend That You're Pregnant When They're Struggling With Fertility

Hey lifers!

If you’re married, did one of you in the partnership want the marriage more than the other? Britt and Ben came to the decision mutually…we think. Ben blink twice 😂Britt is in trouble for ‘practicing’ wearing her wedding ring and Laura shares the behind the scenes of designing Britt’s wedding rings and deciding on the size of the diamonds. 

Are you a road rager or do you keep your cool? How about if you’ve got your kids in the car. Laura thought she was on top of it but Lola has exposed the truth of her driving habits!

Today we have a deep chat about how to navigate your close friendships when you’re in different phases of life especially when it comes to pregnancy and fertility. Laura shares her hesitations and considerations of telling Britt that she was pregnant with their third baby. Britt opens up about the range of emotions she experienced. We unpack whether it’s actually possible to hold space for both joy and sadness in a friendship—being happy for someone and grieving something for yourself at the same time. 

We speak about:

• How do you hold space for your excitement while also being mindful of friends who might have a different experience with fertility?
• What it’s like to be in the ‘waiting room’ of motherhood—not knowing what your outcome will be
• The confusion around when is the right time to have children
• Fertility privilege
• The best way to tell a friend you’re pregnant if they’re struggling with fertility

 

Tell your mum, tell your dad, tell your dog, tell your friend and share the love because WE LOVE LOVE! Xx

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of lafe
On count I'm Laura, I'm Brittany, and do you know
what we are right now? We are on the wedding countdown.
I mean, we've been on the wedding countdown for a while.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
But you're not a wedding countdown for about twenty three
years and Niday.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Now we're aggressively counting down now, which is nice, Ready
for it?

Speaker 1 (00:31):
It is nice?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
No jokes aside, I have been on the countdown for
quite a long time.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
You're speaking about this in existential terms, whereas like I'm
speaking about it in liberal terms.

Speaker 3 (00:39):
You're like talk about like I'm a soul.

Speaker 1 (00:41):
Never thought I was ever going to find the one.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
No, you're like, fuck that, We're there, We're like counting
down the days. No, it is true. It's like I
have been on the countdown for a long time, but
since I got engaged, I've also been on the countdown.
But I feel like it's within reach now, Like it
is so close I can almost lick it.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
Okay, do you feel maybe this is too much of
a personal question and probably a question I should have
asked you morning about it. No, absolutely nothing to do
with nothing to do with any level of horn. Was
it a mutual as in, like, did Ben come to.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
A decision to get married? Yet? I'm glad you appreciated it.
We both consented.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Well, since Ben doesn't really know the daytime or what's happening,
I'm wondering if he's going to show up.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
No. What I mean by that is is like, sometimes
it's one person who wants it more than the other person.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
That was then the one.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Do I need to hind you a shovel? Keep digging
your hole? What is this? Are you trying to say?
I wanted it more than Ben? Ben asked me? Can
I remind you? He asked me, I know, and I
actually didn't say yes straight away. I giggled for about
thirty minutes, and then he said, you need to answer me.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
Oh my god.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah, look, I'll dig myself up. No, I mean, was
he the one who brought it up first? Or were
you the one who brought it up first? In terms
of like married men to the relationship. Oh, I was
like marriage.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
We were about consent.

Speaker 3 (02:01):
But I can confirm we both consented to the marriage.

Speaker 2 (02:04):
I brought up first with Matt, I'm pretty sure like
he would talk about it, but I was like, dude,
I'm really pregnant and I know that I did this
to trap you, but you reckon, I reckon, you should
do something about this.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Do you know I don't actually remember? This is a
really good question.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Oh now it's a good question after you make me
feel so uncomfortable for asking us.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
I just imagine Eve in one of those like possum
traps like Matt's in like possum track, and you're like,
you'd gotten yourself there.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I'm pregnant, Like what you're gonna do without? I imagine
like Laura trying to be at my engagement when the
helicopter lands looked behind me to Ben like blink twice,
if you need help. You don't have to do this.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Yeah, it's making you.

Speaker 2 (02:40):
It's when the officiant asks, like, does anyone object?

Speaker 1 (02:43):
And I'm like, I don't know if Ben, I don't
know if he's gone into this with full consent. Ben,
speak for yourself, say.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
Now, no, it's funny because we had a very fast
moving relationship, as you guys know. But I don't think
it was too fast, and I don't think it was
faster than a lot of people our age. I do
think relationships and I say adult, but I don't know
what the age is. Maybe it's thirty. But there comes
a time where relationships move so much faster because both
people have been through it. They know what they want,

(03:12):
they know what they're looking for, they know who they
want in a partner, and I think it just happens
quicker because you're also you pull the pin quicker. You know,
when you're dating and you know that person's not for you.
Maybe in your twenties, you're like, they're not for me,
but they're fun, and I've got nothing else to do.
I'm gonna sit in it a well. It comes a
point it maybe in your thirties, where you don't want
to do that anymore, and you're like, you could be fun,
but I don't have time for fun, like I'm looking

(03:34):
for my person.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
I don't know if it's always an age related thing.
I think it is a person related thing. I think
you have to have gone through the relationship, not necessarily,
but for a lot of people, you have to have
gone through the relationships that feel as though they're always
either in purgatory or they're time wasting.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Or you know, we talked about fertility vampires.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
But I think a lot of people go through these
very long relationships that don't eventuate or kind of feel
like they never were able to kick it into second
gear or third and then you meet someone and all
the things that you want in life aligne and so
it moves seamlessly, and it's kind of like you wake
up one day and you're like, oh, it actually wasn't
meant to be that hard. I'd been lied to about
the effort that relationships take and that relationships take work,

(04:14):
and I know they do, but not that much work,
to let me tell you, or like, you know, you've
got to kind of fight to be able to have
it worth something, Whereas and I know with my experience
with Matt was like we met and then it was
so easy, and I was like, what is what you
happen to.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
Get to twenty six other women? Yeah? Yeah, it was
so easy.

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Mass to do with how comfortable you are like your
own company as well, at least that was for me.
You know, I think I had to get to a
point where dating no one was also an option that
I was comfortable with. Do you know what, I'm not
sure if I'm explaining that correctly, Like when you're confident
enough in like what you bring to the table where
you won't just accept shit behavior to kind of fill

(04:53):
that need or that void. Perhaps like you're actually kind
of uncomfortable in yourself, and you were absolutely there while
you were comfortable in your own.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
No, that's the problem. I only met Ben because I
was too comfortable on my own. Like the reason I
met him was because I had to pull myself out
of the hole of being in my own space and
on my own. I loved it. I love being on
my own so much. I reckon I could have hope
Ben doesn't take this strong way. I genuinely reckon. I
could have been pretty damn happy living a life on

(05:20):
my own, because I would have got to a point
where you forget what you're missing out on, you know,
like it's easy. And I saw a quote from someone
very famous a couple of days ago. I think it
was the guy that we had the crush on that
we were talking about in your Vibe. What was his name,
Tom Hardy, Tom Hardy, It was Tom Hardy, and Tom
Hardy was like, it's very dangerous to spend time on
your own because you realize how much you love it

(05:40):
and how much you don't need the drama of like
other people sometimes. And I really felt that.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
I don't know if I find that like a negative thing.
You know, I've had some really great conversations with Ellie.
So Ellie is Matt's mum, as you guys me most
of you know, she's been single for a really long time,
like Matt and her. So Matt's dad and mum separator
when he was like fourteen fifteen or something, and she
had a couple of partners after that, nothing that was
like of real importance, and then has been single ever since.

(06:06):
And one of the things I think is that as
a culture and as a society, we expect that people
need to have partnerships or need to have companionship in
you know, a romantic sense, in order to have a
fulfilling life. And she's like, I have never been happier.
I have never been more self sufficient, self fulfilled than
when I have been single and on my own. And

(06:26):
she was like, I never want a data gangs. I
never want to hand over my happiness to someone who
can impact this.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
That's the important thing. I was so happy on my
own and I wasn't looking for someone for the wrong reasons.
I was looking for someone to add to my life.
But I was happy if that didn't happen. And I
know plenty of people that have that are older in
my family or whatever, that have not had kids and
not had a partner or don't have a partner now
in their sixties and seventies, and they're so happy, and
I'm sure there's parts of their life where they have

(06:52):
those moments where they wish they were sharing it with someone.
But anyway, back to the question, it was such an
organic conversation because and I think it was because I
was a bit older fertility wise, that we had the
conversations really early to make sure we're on the same page,
which we always encourage people to do, right, We're like,
put out what you want? Do you want kids in marriage?
Ask that person if they want it. So really early

(07:13):
on we started to talk about kids. I was really
upfront saying I'd already frozen eggs and I said, look,
you guys, remember I'm pretty sure Ben and I froze
embryos in six months, like it was really quick. But
that happened where I said, look, well, I do think
I want kids, and he said the same thing, and
I said, but I want to be married before I
have them. And we sort of worked back on the timeline.

(07:34):
We were like, how old would you want to be
when you have kids? Then we worked out, you know,
well that's nine months, and if it's IVF, we give
it a couple of buffer, which means would get married here,
which means if we have an engagement for a year,
that's And we almost worked backwards and it just became
such an obvious thing that was going to happen. And
it wasn't a like slow like oh my god, you
think we're going to spend our life together. From the

(07:55):
day we met. We just knew and it was never
an awkward conversation. It was so organic, but it was
a bit unromantic in a way that we we had
to work back. I had to figure out how long
it could take me to fall pregnant if we'd go
down the IBA for it, and then we had you
the embryos first. Once we put that timeline in, we
were like, well, I guess we'll get engaged next year.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
It's like that episode of Friends where she's like, I
need to be married before I'm dirty and then she's like, fuck,
I meant to meet someone last year. It's like, yeah, yeah,
I understand that. I do think it's interesting though, And
even with what you just said. Then, you were talking
about people in your family who are single, and you said,
I'm sure they have moments where they're lonely. I think
we have to be careful with that, because I genuinely
do believe that there are people who are on their

(08:39):
own who are not romantically lonely. And Ellie is one totally.
She doesn't have moments, and we've had really deep conversations
about it, where she's like, that's the problem. People always
assume that you must have moments where you're lonely for companionship.
She's like, I don't feel that, and I haven't felt
that for a very long time. She's like, because I've
come to a place of total peace, I do not
want it. And it's almost as though people find it

(09:00):
an impossibility to believe that could be the case.

Speaker 3 (09:03):
And I agree. The people that I am thinking of
are all very happy. But I have spoken to them
in the past and it seems a pretty obvious statement,
but they say things like, you know, I don't need it.
I don't miss it. I'm happy. I fulfill my life
with other ways. Of course, I have those moments every
now and again where the lull comes, where you're on
your own and no one's around, there's nothing going on,

(09:23):
you haven't booked something for the next couple of months,
and you realize, oh, now, it would be a nice
time to have been sitting with someone watching TV or
just those tiny little things. But I don't think that
means they're inherently lonely. They're very happy, but it's human
nature to sometimes crave those connections or to share a
life with someone. Obviously, it hits slightly different if you
are not surrounded by people like Ellie. Speaking of weddings,

(09:47):
I'm in big trouble from band because I don't think
we've spoken about this on the podcast yet. But Laura
Slash Tony May But I guess Laura's is the designer.
Laura made our wedding rings, and I mean I took
her some ideas and we worked with them, and Laura
has made the most beautiful wedding rings that I have received.

(10:09):
A couple of days ago, actually it was a week ago,
Actually it was two weeks ago, and they are absolutely starting.
I can't wait to show you guys them, but you've
probably already seen them because I tried them on. Laura's like,
just try it on, make sure it fits and looks good.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Make sure the size is good, make sure it feels comfortable,
make sure it sits under the band nicely.

Speaker 3 (10:25):
So I tried it on and I haven't taken it off.
I've been wearing my wedding ring. I was like, they're
so beautiful. I just want to wear them, and I've
been wearing them everywhere, to the point that Ben facetimes
me and he's like, Brittany, I'm like what. He's like,
take your wedding ring off? And I'm like, what do
you mean? And I'm like hiding my hand. He's like,
I've seen it. I've seen it in the photos. I've
seen it in the videos. I've seen you wearing it everywhere.
And I was like, but it just looks so beautiful.

Speaker 2 (10:46):
I don't think you're alone with this, though, because we
make a lot of wedding rings, like through Tony May,
and I would say that a lot of people like
to road test their wedding rings before their wedding, or
they put it on and then they get a bit
carried away and they don't take it off.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
It just looked too good. I was like, I deserve people,
just like people need to see this, and Ben's like,
I'm pretty sure it's bad.

Speaker 2 (11:06):
Luck as will comers, no surprise to anyone. So brit
came in and we kind of sat down and went
through like what she wanted and everything, and like one
of the bands. So Britt, no, okay, when I say
one of the bands, most people.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Get one wedding ring. Britt gotten too, Okay.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
One is playing gold, just a plain gold band, simple, understated.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
Yes, love that.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Hot, sexy, classic, classy.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Absolutely. The other lae is a infinity diamond ring. Gorgeous, stunning,
very Brittany, and I was like, okay, cool, are we
going like a two point five millimeter?

Speaker 1 (11:38):
Like a two milimeter.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Two point five for anyone is like when I say pave,
it's like the little diamonds that sit across with claw settings.

Speaker 4 (11:44):
Right when you said infinity, I thought you meant the
infinity symbol, No.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Infinity, just meaning like the diamonds. It's just a straight
diamond band.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
So Britt was like, I think they need to be bigger.
So we went a little bit bigger.

Speaker 2 (11:56):
Then I was like, what about this? And she was like,
I think, look it's got a balance. I think a
little bit bigger.

Speaker 1 (12:02):
Laura's like, this is.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Going to be quite big, and I was like, I
see slightly bigger it goes.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
Is there a problem?

Speaker 3 (12:07):
I was like, I hear what you're saying, and I
raise you five or even a couple of confirmations a
couple of days later, or is like where the point
of go just confirming?

Speaker 2 (12:17):
I was like, size is great, Okay, to be fair, though,
it doesn't look too big. It looks absolutely stunning, like
you you know, if anyone can pull it off, it's
print me hockey.

Speaker 3 (12:27):
Anyway worse than mine. Let's talk Ben's Ben's the ball
a here, Well, this is the other thing.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
So Ben's ring is a straight man's.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
Like most men are not very experimental with their wedding rings,
and like I have done loads of consultations with like
men who show up and they kind of don't even
know what they want, or they want like a four
millimeter straight band. Maybe they might go Matt just to
really like jig it up. And sometimes if they're like
a little bit stylish, they might put a hammered texture
on there. Like you know, men are usually most men,

(12:55):
I wouldn't say all, but a lot of men are
not familiar with wearing jewelry. So even getting a wedding
ring is a bit of like a wig out for them.
So they want something that they can't feel between their fingers.
They want something pretty small. It's so nice when you
get a guy who comes in and they love jewelry
and they want to do something that's like fun and
weird and wacky or has diamonds in it or whatever,
like it's a really fun process. So Britt sent me

(13:17):
this ring that Ben liked, which was like a straight
gold band and that had diamonds in laid around the middle.
So it has like a strip of diamonds in it,
so think like gold on the top, strip of diamonds
gold on the bottom. Now, the diamonds in this band
were quite small, like they were quite like understated row
of also what's called pave diamonds. And so I like
sent off all the specks and everything, and my goldsmith

(13:39):
was making it up. I don't know whether I confuse
the specs or whether because BRIT's diamonds were so big
that they wanted to match anyway. They send them across
and I was like, I think that you've gotten that wrong.

Speaker 1 (13:48):
I was like, they're too big.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think we'll need to refit the diamonds to being
like a couple of size smaller.

Speaker 3 (13:52):
But they already sort of put them in, not set them.
But they were like sort of already they already.

Speaker 1 (13:56):
Drilled the holes where the diamonds would go.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
But it's fine, Like, I mean that have and then
you just do a remake like it's not a big deal,
you know, especially at that point of the process that's
only like a couple of hours into making it. And
so I sent it to Britain. I was like, hey,
just want to flag this. I was like, you know,
obviously this doesn't have to stay like this. We can
go and scale it back down or alternatively, Like I
just wanted.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
To get a gauge as to how big Ben wanted
them to be.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
I did not expect Ben's response to be like it's brilliant,
Bigger is better size.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
I was like, they've accident what you're doing, Mesa, Like, Babe,
they've accidentally made your diamonds too big? What do you think?
I said it to him. He was like fuck. He
was like he was like that is so good. And
I was like, oh, you're happy, and he's like ballot.
I said, Laura to go ahead, lock in the giant diamond.

Speaker 1 (14:43):
And it is a very audacious men's ring. And I
love it.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Like, don't get me wrong, Like it's not like it's
gaudy or over the top, no, but it's just not
a ring that most men would have the confidence to wear.
And so it's so nice to make something that's like
a little bit more out there. And I say this
because Ben Bent that's my husband's name, Matt for.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
His wedding ring.

Speaker 2 (15:02):
So you guys probably remember back in the day when
I was on Batch, like, well, it's just kind of
like what happens in the last episode of The Bachelor
is like they.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Give you a ring.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Apparently.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
I don't know if I've ever talked about this before,
because Matt kind of said that, he was like, I
don't want you people to know this at the end
of Bachelor.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
So when you're don't look at me like that, brit
when you're the woman at the end.

Speaker 3 (15:23):
Go forth to took about how nice ones to get
a ring at the end, they give you a ring right, So,
and it's kind of a weird one because the bachelor
designs the ring before he's actually chosen who he's going
to pick, so because he has to, it's a generic ring,
not made for the person.

Speaker 2 (15:38):
Not necessarily specifically made for the person, made knowing that
he's going to give it to someone. So the ring
that Matt designed it was beautiful, but it was a
white gold ring, and I don't wear white gold.

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm a yellow gold goal.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
So for me, when I got it, I was like,
oh wow, and it looked like, wow, it looked like
a engagement ring. It was this big oval diamond with
like all these tiny little diamonds in the band, like
a beautiful princess prong setting, Like it was a really
really big engagement ring. I wore it a lot at
the start because I loved it because he'd given it

(16:08):
to me and I loved like what it meant. But
then kind of as the years progressed, I was like,
it's just so not something I would normally wear. And
also once we've gotten engaged, I was like, well, now
I have an engagement ring, and now I have another
engagement ring that I have to wear.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
On the other hand, that.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
I don't even like.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
Well, I did like it. I don't want to say that,
but yeah, I felt your white.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
I felt guilty because like, no one wants to be
given something that's sentimental and then be like, hey, can
I remake it and make it better?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
So or remake it make it for myself.

Speaker 2 (16:34):
So what I did is I took the stone out
of that the center stone, and I remade it into
a ring that I wear every single day.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Now it's just a flat, like you know, a way
more wearable ring for me.

Speaker 2 (16:45):
But I took all the tiny little diamonds out of
that band and that's what went into his wedding ring.
So his wedding ring is kind of similar to bands.
It's a gold flat band, but it has loads of
little diamonds all through the band, so it's very blingy.
But they're all from my bachelor ring. So he wear
as that every day and it's really sentimental to us.
I feel like I'm going to get in trouble telling
the story or like Matt's going to be mad about this.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
Why would you.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
Be mad about it?

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Because I didn't even know you properly. I know I
shouldn't say that. I didn't know you, but like when
he made that, Unfortunately, it does have to be made
a few weeks before people have usually made the decision.
So like, I don't think he's gonna be upset in
you saying that.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
I think it's more around the logistics of the fact
that like a ring is because like the way it
works on batches, like a ring is gifted from the
brand who gives it, and that's like their people know
that contribution from like a marketing and advertising perspective. So like,
I would never want to say, like, oh I didn't
like the Like I loved the ring, it just wasn't
something that I would normally wear.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
It was the wrong color metal. Yeah, it's okay. He
didn't know me, and I'm a jeweler.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
God damn it.

Speaker 3 (17:47):
He's like, I love you, laure Ley. It's you Laura,
Like Laura and I were gold.

Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's like an.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Aggressive punt to give a jewel designer a ring. Put
it that way, anyone.

Speaker 3 (17:57):
A ring that you you're still dating twenty other wa
Like that's a big thing to do.

Speaker 4 (18:02):
My mom, I remember her saying that the moment she
knew that she needed to separate from my dad was
she had worn white gold for literally her whole life.
They were together since she was fifteen years old, and
he got her a gold watch.

Speaker 2 (18:15):
She was like, forty, I absolutely agree with this because
I feel like when people say, oh, but it's the
thought that counts, I'm like, no, but that's a thoughtless gift.
That's a gift that you have paid no attention to
your partner for their entire relationship, that you've never noticed
that you wear a specific color.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Anyway, that wasn't the case of mad.

Speaker 3 (18:32):
What I will say is this ring really suits Ben.
Like I've never been a big jewelry on men person.
I don't know why Ben wears jewelry, but it really
suits him and like this it's a ball absolutely baller ring,
but he's so happy with it and it looks beautiful
on him. He's this is a relevant, beautiful Swiss golden
skin and it just looks so good on him that

(18:54):
I love it. He loves it, so thank you so
much for making them. I do need them cleaned again, sorry,
because I have him wearing them a lot. Like I
was like, yeah, I really need to stop.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
It's really special to be able to like do something
that's for you that's also part of your wedding. That's
something that I'm going to be on you forever now
and I love that around me, you're going to think
of me.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
That's what I wanted out of my arning ring. I
don't want to think of Ben, and I wantant to
see you.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
I want you both to know that I'm part of
this thropple forever like I do just the three of us.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I do see you more than him. It is awkward, okay,
So now I just need to get them to the
wedding safely, save and sound. I might strap into my
boob or something.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
No one talks about the logistics of having to travel
with wedding rings or engagement rings and the fear that
you have around not losing them.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
I think you need to stop them on. Stop looking
at me, stop looking at taking the dress. I'm not
also being responsible.

Speaker 5 (19:44):
For resn Also, I've dispersed the dresses so everyone knows
Keisha has turned into the wedding mule like she She's
parting the full wedding dress over there only because as
we established, but it doesn't trust that I won't look
at it and fair fair game.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
I will.

Speaker 3 (19:57):
I still stand by the fact that you are one
hundred would put it on, you would be like, I
just need to see beautiful, stunning goodness.

Speaker 4 (20:04):
She like doesn't zip it up because the pregnant belly
doesn't quite make it these days. He set me down
last week and she was like, Keisha, I need, I need.
She's travel we've traveled internationally together before, and she's like,
I know what you're like. I know that you are
more than comfortable being the last person on the plane.
I hate sitting on the plane and waiting, like I'm
so happy to be the last person.

Speaker 3 (20:23):
I never put anything above because it just fits, you know.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
In the leg room for me anyway, So we.

Speaker 3 (20:27):
Had to have a proper chow.

Speaker 4 (20:28):
She was like, you will be the first person on
the plane. You are lining your weight as soon as
you get to the gate. I don't care if they
haven't called for boarding yet. You're at the front of
the line. You're sitting in line holding my dress, waiting
to get.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
On because you have to get on the phone because.

Speaker 3 (20:43):
You know help you get on last, and there's no
room left. They're like, sorry, your stuff's got to go underneath.
I was like, first person there, Keisha, we're not waiting
to the last minute to call the uber. You're going
to be lined up.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
I can't wait to see Keisha on border control at
the other side border security.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
She's in Bali.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Anyway, guys, look, I know that that's a lot of
wedding chat. There was going to be a whole lot
more coming off.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
Just dared.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
We have literally just unpacked, like you know, chipped into
the tip of the iceberg. But there's gonna be a
lot more coming up, and that will be in the
next few episodes. But there was something that happened to
me that I wanted to tell you about. It's very small,
it's very dumb. How do you think you respond to
road rage? If you're on like a scale of one
to ten, like some people.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
Are very we're on the receiving, like you're the road.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
Rager, like some people are like nine normal humans in
their everyday life, which is what I think I am,
and then the road rage just tips you. It's like
the one place where the rage can come out, the
rage that you suppressed throughout your normal daily life.

Speaker 1 (21:38):
You just let it out in the car.

Speaker 3 (21:39):
I'm not proud of it. Keisha's witnessed it a few times.
I'm not proud of it. I'm that person. I am
so relaxed. I could be horizontal. I'm chill when I
get in that car. If someone cuts me off or
someone like drives dangerously, I'm out the window. I'm throwing fingers.
I'm not proud. I've seen her horn.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I mean, hold the horn in, put the window down,
shut a finger.

Speaker 3 (22:01):
Remember that awkward moment that we thought he was going
to get out.

Speaker 4 (22:04):
Further up the road, we both stopped and Britt was like,
I just heard you know that when you lock the
doors and you hear this out on the bun I
just heard her go like that, and she was She
was still late, mouth.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
And off in the mirrors and stuff, because he looked
like he was going to get out. And then I
was like, he did look quite violent. I think what
I've learned is you can't road rage if you're coming
up to lights like you've got it. You can only
road rage if you can get away.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
But I would say I've normally learned to control it.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
So I thought, right, because I've always got kids in
the car, and so you know you've got to you've
got to be meeted when you're in front of little
years and anyway, the other day, we're in we're driving
on the street, and we're in like a road that
turns into a one way street because of roadworks at
the moment, and so I've pulled up and the car
in front of me has also pulled to the side.
She's pulled to the side so that I can go through,

(22:49):
but just hasn't pulled to the side enough. She's kind
of just stopped in the middle of the road, but
for some reason hasn't realized how much space she's taking up.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Zero spatial awareness.

Speaker 2 (22:58):
Yeah, so we're kind of just playing this aim of
chicken because I physically can't go. She's waiting for me
to go. And it went on for way too long. Anyway,
I was getting more and more agitated because I think
she'd looked down to do something and wasn't actually paying
attention that I couldn't pass.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
And the kids were like, mom, what's she doing? And
I was like, I don't know. She can't drive, and
they were like, why isn't she moving? And I was like,
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (23:19):
Anyway, I went to beefer a beepa and she looks
up and she's like, oh, it's all fine.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
And then I hear from Lola in the back. Don't worry, mom,
I stuck my finger up at her.

Speaker 3 (23:30):
Oh my god, I love this child so much. What
is for?

Speaker 1 (23:35):
And I was like what. She goes, yeah, just like
you do.

Speaker 3 (23:38):
And I was like, yeah, Laura, kid's a vacuum.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
I was like, when did I do that? I stuck
my rude finger up at her?

Speaker 2 (23:44):
And then and then I was like, sweetheart, mommy doesn't
stick her rude finger up at people.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
And then Lola like a fucking diary a calendar went
through all of the times where she's been in the
back seat and she had witnessed me stick my finger up.
She was like, remember that time we were driving to
Auntie Alex's house. Yeah, you stuck your finger up at
that black car. Hey, mommy, remember that time we went
to Woolworth And I was like, what is there for you?

Speaker 3 (24:05):
The FBI god is Lola rain Man.

Speaker 1 (24:08):
I was like, what is going on here? And Marley's
in the other seat and she's like, yeah, you did mom.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
I was there.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
I saw it too.

Speaker 3 (24:15):
I'm definitely on Lala Marley's side. You would have done
it without thinking.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
I didn't realize i'd done it, and I would obviously
was just mad. I was like, you know, piss ha
out the window. I don't even think I did it
out the window. I think I just did it in
the car.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Can you imagine seeing the other person in the other
cart and seeing a four.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
Year old.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
Fuck you? She could not laugh. She's like, she's so funny.
What a supportive queen. She's gonna be an animal.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
Sometimes I really question if I'm doing a good job
of parenting that I'm bringing your third into the world.
Oh God, it's sold down here from here.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
You guys might remember a couple of weeks ago when
we were having the big conversation about baby number three.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
I am well and truly up the daff everyone.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
When we had and did that episode, we did touch
on something that we wanted to talk about more, but
we wanted to do it in isolation and not kind
of tack it on to the end of that app.
We had a really big conversation about this, Britt and I,
and it's about how you navigate conversations around pregnancy. Doesn't
just have to be pregnancy, but I think a lot
of these feelings do circulate a long and around fertility.

(25:26):
With someone in your life who is going through their
own unique fertility struggles or is at a different point
in their fertility journey or motherhood journey. The reason why
this came up for us is because brit is obviously
and like we have been the closest friends for six years.
You have known about every single pregnancy before Matt has
ever known about them. Not only has Britt known about

(25:48):
every pregnancy that I've ever had, She's also known about
every miscarriage that I've had before Matt has known about
it as well.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Yeah, let's not send that to Matt, but it is true.
But I think it also makes sense in a way.
We do see each other every day, and if we
don't see each other every day, we talk every day.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah. I mean I also see my husband every day
as well.

Speaker 3 (26:06):
I know that's a yeah constancy that doesn't Maybe it's
because I don't see mine every day, but I'm like
just a.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
Feele know, but it's true.

Speaker 2 (26:13):
I remember getting in your car when I found out
that I was pregnant before Lola, so the pregnancy that
ended in miscarriage, and I was like to Brit, you
know far out I think I'm pregnant, which really sent
you in a bit of a tail spin at the time,
just because we'd finally gotten a bit of a work
schedule back.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
I was like, oh my god, that's so funny.

Speaker 2 (26:33):
The reason why that was a bit of a shock
was because I'm pretty sure Marley was only about eight
months at the time, and so.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
Yeah, something shockingly soon, like it's a very small window.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
But I told Britt first, she was the first person
I spoke about any of this too. And then also
when that ended in Miss Carriage, you were also the
first person I spoke to about that.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Do you know I never will forget that one too.
I remember how much of a non event that conversation was.
And by non event, I mean you were like, fuck,
I'm miscarrying and I was like what and you were like, yeah,
I'm miscarrying. And I was like fuck that fuck that sucks.
What can I do? And You're like, nothing's get on

(27:11):
with it. And I just remember it being we sat
in it, but it was so like factual, like it
was a part of the day. I just remember thinking, like,
there's nothing we can do in this situation.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
Do you mean my reaction to it?

Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yeah, just the way we we sort of got, the
way we sort of spoke about it. It was like you
were and I don't mean to say it's like you
were not emotional. You were, but there was nothing left
to do than other than like we had the conversation,
what does it look like?

Speaker 1 (27:36):
What do we do?

Speaker 3 (27:36):
What do you do? What can I do for you?
Do you need to go to the hospital. But it
was really like you were, like, this is just happening.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
To be fair, I think I was particularly unemotional about it,
and I actually think that that's like a self preservation thing.
And we've spoken about a little bit around this pregnancy.
I struggled to feel connected during pregnancy, and it's because
there's always the expectation that I have that it could
end in miss carriage. So even now I kind of

(28:02):
feel jealous of women who have pregnancies where they feel
this beautiful connection with their unborn child, and I don't
have that. I kind of always just feel a little
bit alien to it until they're here and they're healthy
and everything's turned out okay.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
But the reason why we.

Speaker 2 (28:18):
Wanted to have this specific conversation is because things are
a little bit different this time. So I found out
about having baby number three, and it's come at a
time where There's also been lots of conversations from you,
brit around your fertility, around the pendulum swinging between not
knowing what you want but also going through your own
struggles of not getting as many embryos, and there is

(28:38):
a lot in that to unpack. And I didn't feel
as though I wanted to or as though it was
respectful to come to you with the same sort of
immediacy and joy around it, because I knew that would
have an impact on you in some way. So I
felt very much as though this pregnancy should be approached

(28:59):
and managed slightly differently, and I kind of instead of
it being something that we spoke about at the second
it happened. I also think it was a factor that
Matt wasn't here in the country either. It was quite
a while that I was processing what would be the
best way to approach that conversation with you.

Speaker 3 (29:15):
You probably also felt like, oh, maybe I'll throw a
mat of bone here and give you one to one
pregnancy before I give it to Britney.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
No, no, you know what it was. It was like
this overwhelming feeling of guilt. And I don't know if
that's the right feeling to have had, but it was
how I felt because I didn't want to expect that
you would be happy for this, and I know you
were going to be. I know that that's kind of
like how we show up to our friendships. But at
the same time, you know, we'd had conversations at the

(29:40):
end of last year around what this year looked like
in terms of our business, in terms of planning for kids.
I'd mentioned I wanted to have a third you mentioned
that you wanted to also have a baby, and it
was like a scheduling nightmare as well, and so I
was like, how do we approach this in a way
that feels sensitive? And it was something that I felt
like we really had to consider.

Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, and this is so layered, like this conversation, and
I think for a lot of people, it's like an onion.
You can peel it back and back and back until
you get to its core and the onion makes you
cry along the way. That's my fertility analogy is an onion.
But I don't even know where to start. I appreciate
that you had so much more consideration around it, and
I think it's something that people do need to consider.

(30:21):
But funnily enough, if I'm being really honest with myself
and how I felt in that situation. It made me
sadder that you felt you couldn't tell me like I can.
These things can run concurrently. I can appreciate that you
were like, Okay, this HiT's a bit different with this
third pregnancy and where Britney's at, and I appreciate that,

(30:44):
and I think it's very considerate as a friend. But
then it hurt me so much more. Not you didn't
hurt me. It hurt me that a friend felt like
they couldn't have their happiness because of they were so
worried about how I would react. And that might not
be a normal feeling for other people. And maybe you
can't understand that, but I remember going home being like, oh,
like that crushes me to think that my friends can't

(31:05):
sit in their happiness because they're so worried about my
happiness and the thought of you being at home being
like worried and like, I don't know how to tell her.
You know, that to me was more impactful than the
fact that you felt pregnant. But that's a personal thing.
That was just how I felt.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
Probably our situation has some unique parts to it because
it was also it were yeah, and I think because
we're business partners and there's so much more to this,
Like having kids obviously has an impact, it's really tricky
to get your head around, Okay, well, what's the right
time to do something? And also I guess for me,
I was like, do I need to have a third child?
Is that selfish having a third kid when I already

(31:39):
have two amazingly healthy, wonderful little children. But then there
also was this like unfinished desire and I guess unfinished
feeling around motherhood for me. You know, some people talk
about motherhood and they they say like I had that
baby and I knew my family was complete.

Speaker 1 (31:53):
Yeah, and I have never had that feeling.

Speaker 2 (31:56):
But I also knew I was getting be aged out
of the possibility of it happening. You know, I'll be
forty a couple of months after this baby's born, and
so I'm I.

Speaker 3 (32:04):
Need thirty thirty nine. Have you just aged es? So
have you no?

Speaker 1 (32:06):
I have turned forty next year, say.

Speaker 3 (32:08):
Forty next year.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I haven't quite blinked. I'm forty in March next year.
So for me, I know that, you know, if we
were to delay it another year, I'd be having a
baby in my forties, which is just a different kettle
of fish.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Loads of women do it.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
This is not me trying to, you know, perpetuate the
fear around having later pregnancies. But I also know that
it comes with another degree of potential issues. So I
guess I was like, well, if I'm going to have
a third, it probably has to be this year. Otherwise
I feel like that window might be closed for me.

Speaker 3 (32:39):
So when I get that too, because the aged doubt
feeling is what I feel constantly, I haven't started. Yeah
I'm thirty eight soon in two months, and I haven't started.
I was so happy for you in a moment, and
like there was nothing. I don't even think we talked
about work or logistics or anything that day in that moment.

Speaker 1 (32:58):
Yeah, we didn't.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
And I was and I am and was stoked for you.
There's so much that comes with it. But I did
go home that day and cry to Ben, not for
any other reason than like, oh, it's just a reminder
that sometimes it's easy for other people and not for you,
and and you know, you go down the Ben's been
really quiet. He's been the better person in this in
our fertility journey in terms of positivity and I need

(33:21):
to change that. I coated has been realistic, but it's not.
I think it's negative. I'm very negative, but I think
I'm doing that to shelter myself from if it doesn't
ever happen. Like there's just a part of me that
feels like and i'mlike with that. With everything in life,
whether it's an audition or a job or a whatever
it's ever been, I always expect the bare minimum, so

(33:42):
I can only be surprised and happy and you know,
instead of being let down. I've always done that, and
so I think that I even said it to my
fertility doctor a week ago. You know, I said, okay, cool,
so we've got three embryos, so we know that fifth
percent of that's not great. So it's not looking great.
And she's like, well, no, it is looking great, like
you'll have three, so you need to start to talk

(34:02):
like that. But Ben's very much like I was, like,
it's never gonna happen for us? Is it like everyone
else just happens so quickly? And he's like, maybe it
will happen. He's like, and you keep putting this out
to the world and I need to take my own advice.
But he's been the better person, whereas I'm really trying
to protect myself and be like whatever, like will be fine.
It's like we don't even really want them anyway, which
is not true, but I keep saying that.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
But also I do think that that's a very relatable thing,
and I think a lot of women who and I
don't want to put this into pigeonholes. There's obviously so
many women who decide not to have children and their
childless by choice. We've spoken about that a million times.
That is not what this conversation is about, though, so
I don't want anyone to feel invalidated. We have absolutely
had very in depth conversations about the liberty that comes

(34:44):
with women who choose not to have kids, and that
is a conscious choice.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
On the flip side of that, there are women who
want to have children but have a protection mechanism around
themselves who say, I don't know if kids are for me,
And the reason for that is also because they are
not sure if they're would have them, So it's easier
to say, well, I don't know if it's for me,
because it creates this protective bubble. It's the same thing
that I do with pregnancy saying, well, this will probably

(35:09):
end in miscarriage. It is a way of preparing your
brain for something that is a possibility. It's not like
it's out of the remit. It's not like it's never
happened before. And I guess, like the reason why we
wanted to talk about this is because it is a
very natural part of so many female friendships where one
person is having the things that another person in that

(35:30):
friendship wants, and it's that duality being able to hold
space for the happiness of your friend but also to
feel the complex feelings of sadness yourself. And I think
like so many people will go through it at different
points of their friendships, and just because you might be
at a different point or whatever it is to your friends,
doesn't mean that you can't hold space for them and
still continue on with incredible friendships, so long as it's

(35:51):
navigated sensitively.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Definitely in the age group that we're talking about now, Laura, Like,
obviously can happen at any age, but when you get
to our age of like mid thirties to late thirties,
it's when it does become increasingly harder for women for
different reasons. Maybe they're going to early menopause. Maybe they
don't have a partner, and it's not necessarily childless by choice,
but they being what we call aged out. Yeah, and

(36:14):
aged out sounds like such a yucky term, but it's true.
Like I have friends and I have been talking about
this with you know, actually two particular friends in the
last week that feel like they are being aged out.
They are not in relationships. They don't want to go
down the journey by themselves like they want, and that's
just their choice, right. There are lots of people that do,

(36:34):
and that's okay, but they wanted the family unit. They
obviously don't want it enough to go down the journey
by themselves, but they did see a family with a partner,
and they're coming to this internal understanding. I guess where
they're saying, hey, maybe I need to start to think
that it might not happen because they haven't met the

(36:55):
right person yet. And there's so many people I know
that are in that situation. That's even harder because that's
something that I guess life is taking away from you.
Like it's I mean, I don't want to say harder,
it's different. There are so many reasons people can't have children,
and it's not harder for one, you know, people that
have fertility issues. It is equally as hard as people
that really want it but haven't been able to find
that journey, Like they just look different. But I don't

(37:17):
want to take that pain away from any individual person.
And obviously our situation, Laurie is is unique because I
don't know how many people listening right now would be
in a situation where they're in business with a friend
or a sister that are wanting to have pregnancies at
the same time. But I think it relates to career
as well, like a lot of women us included definitely me.
I don't want to speak for you, but I have

(37:38):
put off kids because of my career for sure. Like
there's moments where I thought maybe things are about to
take off or a job was about to happen, and
that would take me into the next year, and I
was like, well, I can't get pregnant then, because I
can't do that and that's important to me and I
want to focus on that. And there's definitely women that
put off children because of career issues.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
I guess, like the big thing that I really wanted
to talk about with you, Britt is, And you've spoken
about a little bit in terms of fertility and the
pendulum swinging between not knowing exactly what you want but
potentially that being a cloak of armor and protection. How
do you navigate this feeling of being in I guess,
fertility purgatory, or being in what can be described as

(38:19):
like the waiting room of motherhood when it is something
that you know you want but you can't logistically do
it at the moment because you're here and Ben is
there and.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
There's other factors at play.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Yeah, and I have been in fertility purgatory for a
long time. It's interesting because I still try to figure
it out and I try to figure out my thoughts
and what they mean, why I feel that way, or
why I say these things. And so I'm thirty seven,
thirty eight in August, and I have fifteen eggs and
three embryos. Did I feel better once I froze those? Yes,

(38:53):
it helped me a lot, Like it took a lot
of pressure off my shoulders about I guess the time
constraints that I had and like when I had to
make the decision. Now, I don't want to ever say
that and make anyone think that it is fool proof.
We've done episodes on it, and we will do more
episodes on it. I'm sure once I actually start again
the fertility journey, we'll talk about it a lot. But

(39:13):
it is not a guarantee. Having eggs and embrace is
not a guarantee that it's going to give you a baby.
But it definitely helps, and it definitely helps to give
you a decision down the track. You know at least
an option. If you don't do them, you don't have
the option. So that's the way I look at it.
For me, I felt ten times better having frozen them.
I know that I have used it as like the
cloak of armor, as you just said to I guess,

(39:35):
protect myself in case it doesn't happen. Then I've always
sort of said, well, I didn't know anyway, like and
I know I'll be fine without them. I'll know I'll
be happy without them. And the reason the way that
I've been trying to consolidate my thoughts is when I
look into the future, do I see a life without kids,
and do I think it will be okay? And the
answer is no. Do I feel ready to have them now? No?

(39:59):
And that has always it's been my issue, and I
think I'm just realizing that I'm never going to be ready.
I feel like I'm twenty one. If I was living
with Ben right now, I think would be well and
truly down that journey because it would seem like the
natural thing to do and I would feel supported. I
have anxiety attacks thinking about how I'm going to do
it because there is so much that needs to happen
to do it. And I think a lot of people

(40:21):
would relate to this when you are having to do
IVF and you're maybe unsure about it. And I've spoken
about this, or we spoke about it a little bit
with Eron Holland as well, because she's going down that
path and not having a lot of luck. But she's
also feeling like she's been pushed into doing it because
of her age as well, like she loves her career
as well, prioritizing it. But she's like, Okay, I've got

(40:42):
to the point where I need to do it. It's an
unusual thing because it would be obviously I'm stating the obvious,
but it'd be so much easier, and I just want
to fall naturally because I'm worried. I'm never going to
pull the trigger on booking a date in for IVF.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
It's different.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
It is different to say next week on Tuesday, I'm
going to get pregnant. Like that's just a different thing
because the time comes and when you're in control of
it to that level, and I worry that I'll never
actually just book it in and lock it in and
make that decision. I just wish that I could fall naturally,
obviously like every woman does, but so that that choice
is taken from me and I don't have to lock

(41:17):
in the exact day and time and go in and
so it's a real decision fatigue for me. There's different
kinds of waiting rooms for people, waiting rooms for fertility
and pregnancy. Some are physiological and some are psychological, some
are both. For me, I am saying my waiting room
is about I haven't been able to fall naturally, which

(41:37):
I really need to do for my psychological side, because
my psychological side says there's never a right time. Now
is not the right time. Wait a little bit longer, yea.
But for other people, some of them psychologically absolutely know
and it can't happen. And that is because for whatever reason,
your body is not allowing it to That is a

(41:57):
different conversation again with your friends, and there's so much
many different ways to navigate it. And I know you've
had to navigate it multiple times laws with people in
your life.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Yeah, but we've also spoken to people.

Speaker 2 (42:06):
I mean, Clouge Fisher came on the podcast and talked
about not having an understanding as to why she was
experiencing infertility. Tanya Hennessy was another person who recently we
spoke to around her fertility and her experiences with endometriosis
and how that's affected her, and she's really vocal about
it on social media. It was interesting the way she
spoke about it because she was like, I've become this

(42:27):
pinup person for this thing, Yeah, because I'm speaking so
vocally about it, this thing you never want to be
the pinup person for. But it allows other people who
are experiencing the same thing to feel validation and to
feel comfort in that. The big thing that Tanya said,
which I really admire, and I also think when we
talk about navigating these conversations with friendships and how do
you speak to your friends who are at a different

(42:49):
life stage, and especially when you're worried about being the
root cause of their pain or hurt. The thing is
is if someone is struggling with infertility or they have
gone through miscarriages, they are acutely aware that that is
something that they are struggling with, and not telling them
that you're pregnant or not including them in the things
that you're experiencing doesn't shelter them from the pain.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
It only adds to the exclusion.

Speaker 2 (43:12):
Not only are they excluded from the feelings of motherhood,
they're also excluded from the feelings of friendship as well. Yeah,
and you know, I had a really interesting conversation with
a woman who I met at a hotel once and
Marley was playing with her. Mally was like, really had
kind of latched onto this woman next to pool, and.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
I apologize to her. I was like, I told you
guys about this story of you. You might remember. I
apologize to her because I was like, Oh, the last.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
Thing you want on your lovely holiday is to have
my child year old climbing all over you and telling
you about the Taylor Swift concert. And it turns out
this woman was actually a lifer, and she said, it's
pure joy to be able to share your daughter with you.
For this short period of time, and she had a
little daughter herself who had died of brain tumor only
twelve months earlier. It's going to make me sad even

(43:57):
repeating this, but she said the hardest thing in the
time since her daughter had passed away, she said, was
no longer being seen as a mum and being excluded
from the things that mums get to do with their kids.
She's like, I no longer get to go to the
birthday parties because no one invites me.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Because people think they're protecting you, but it's in fact
hurting you.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, And she said, you know, I no longer get
invited to the things that I would have been invited
to had my daughter still been alive. And she said,
I understand the grief is almost too much for other
people to deal with. You know, you don't want to
be responsible for what it is that she's going through.
But she's like, it's this real exclusionary thing that happens.
The same thing happens with fertility. You know, people don't

(44:39):
get invited to baby showers or they're the last person
to find out about a pregnancy, and it's this constant
feeling that not only do you not have the baby,
but you're also sheltered from all the other things that
would experience joy with your friendship. And I guess like
for us. And that was a big conversation we had
off the back of it, brit when I told you
I was pregnant. Everyone was happy, but there were also

(45:00):
tears in that as well. And I think that that's okay.
It's all right to have and hold that space for
your friend. And I'd love to know how other people
have navigated this with their friends, for people who have
had multiple miscarriages. I had a similar situation with another
girlfriend that I felt had to be navigated quite sensitively
because she was going through and had been through her
own fertility struggles. Yeah, she was pregnant, and I wanted

(45:23):
to know that the pregnancy that she was currently experiencing
was safe and was going to stick, and she wasn't
going to go through another version of loss that she'd
already experienced so many times after years and years and
years of trying for a baby. I didn't want to
show up and be like, here, I am baby number three.
But at the same time, I didn't want to hurt
her feel as though I'd left her out of the
conversation simultaneously. It's a fucking hard thing to navigate because

(45:46):
it's so incredibly complex.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
You can't blanket statement this. But I think when to
answer people's question of what is the best way to
navigate these conversations with your friends, of course it is
with consideration and delicacy and care. But I don't personally,
you believe it is making them the last person to
know because you're unsure of how they're going to feel.
I think that that can actually be worse. It isolates

(46:09):
them a little bit more like it almost makes the
person feel like there's such a burden on someone else's
life that you know. I think the best way to
do it is to include them the same way you
do everything, but the conversation looks a little different. They
don't have to be the last to know. You still
invite them to all of the baby things, but you
just have the conversation a little different. Hey, I need
to talk to you. I know this is going to
be really hard for you, but I'm pregnant and I

(46:32):
know it hasn't been easy for you. But you are
such a huge, important part of my life, and you
know I want to make sure you're okay and you understand,
but for me personally, other people might feel different. The
answer is not to make them the last person to know.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
I think the reason why some people do that is
because we don't like discomfort ourselves. We're actually not doing
it to protect the other person. And I think if
you unpick those sorts of feelings, we're not doing it
because we don't want to upset the friend. We're doing
it because we don't like the discs comfort. I above so,
but yes I do. But I do think that there
is a period where it shifts beyond it being about

(47:07):
care for your friend or care for the person who's
experiencing loss and grief, and it actually becomes about I
don't want to have to manage those feelings. I don't
want to have to be responsible for the feelings of
hurt because most, and I would say the vast majority
of people are not going to react negatively to that
kind of news.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
They might be really, really hurt.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
They might even mute you for a while because they
don't want to see it showing up on their Instagram.
But at least you gave them the opportunity to have
their own feelings and reactions about it, rather than denying
them the opportunity to feel about something that you're all experiencing.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Do you think there's an element of guilt about having
fertility privilege?

Speaker 1 (47:44):
I know that that's like a little bit of a.

Speaker 4 (47:46):
A full on way to look at it, but I
think there could be an element of people kind of
going like, I was fortunate enough to be able to
have this thing that I really wanted, that this moton
really wants, and I feel feel bad about the fact
that I have this privilege that they don't, you know,
And I guess that's it's just there's nothing you can
do about it, like it's such an uncontrollable situation. But

(48:08):
I wonder whether one of those emotions that you're saying
that people don't want to feel is actually an element
of guilt.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
I mean, and look, it probably sounds very formal, but
like we do do a bit of a prep sheet
for these things that we talk about. And one of
the questions Keiche that you put in here, you said,
do you ever feel guilt around your fertility or growing family?
Knowing not everyone can have the same experience, which as
friends having this discussion feels like an extremely like full
on question to answer.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
I felt weird writing that because I was like, I
don't know if that's the word, but I can't think
of a word that actually describes the emotion other than
that totally.

Speaker 2 (48:40):
And I also I wanted to read it because I
think it is an incredibly powerful question in itself. Do
I personally feel guilt about having a third baby? Guilt's
probably not the right word for it, but I do
feel as though I owe it to other women who
experience miscarriage to talk about my pregnancies alongside miscarriage. I

(49:03):
have never not spoken about miscarriage because for me, it's
just such an integrated part of my pregnancy, not just
because it's happened twice, but because it's also psychologically something
that affects me on the daily. This might be too
much information, but I had quite a bit of bleeding
last week. We were in records, and I went to
the bathroom and had a lot of bleeding, like enough

(49:23):
to be worried about it, And I obviously contacted my
obsetrition and did all that sort of stuff. But I
came back into records and you guys, like understandably were
also very worried.

Speaker 3 (49:32):
About, like go to the hospital go yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah, And I I guess for me, it all kind
of ties back into this feeling of disassociation a little bit.
I haven't allowed myself to get deeply excited about this
pregnancy because I never feel as though they're permanent. And
when I do talk about pregnancy, I think, you know,
even though I am having number three, speaking about miscarriage

(49:55):
has always been part of my pregnancy conversation because I
would hate for someone to look in and be like, here,
she is having another baby, and it's so easy for them,
when absolutely we have, you know, And I'm so grateful
for having two beautifully healthy kids, and in some aspects
it has been easy, but at the same time, we've
also had our own moments and challenges along the way
as well, because it's just a very fucking normal part

(50:17):
of having children. Yeah yeah, And I guess, like you know,
I'm not saying it's a healthy way to be about pregnancy,
but it's a very pragmatic and realistic way to be
and it is definitely gives me mental security around it.

Speaker 3 (50:29):
I do think you'd be hard done by to find
a woman now that has not been in this situation
in some capacity. On one side or another, because we
know how many issues are around women falling pregnant now
and how many fertility issues are showing their ugly heads
now that women are more educated about things like peacos
and enjemy triosis, and now we're talking about it more,
we speak more about miscarriage. You'd be hard done by

(50:52):
to find someone that has not been on one of
those sides. And this is why these conversations are so
important to have with your friends, because feelings can run
concs currently. You can be really happy for your own
pregnancy and feel horrible for a friend, or how you're
going to tell a friend, or confused feelings of guilt
but you're not sure if they're guilt like. It is
a really confusing time. I do think if there's anything

(51:13):
we can learn from these conversations, it's that the best
thing to do is have honest conversations with your friends
and know that they are going to be difficult conversations
in some capacity, but it's okay to have them.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:26):
And also I think like not feeling like you're a
bad person if it does come to a point where
you have to mute people on Instagram, because it is
affecting you and it's too upsetting for you. You're allowed to
create space around yourself to protect yourself, and that those
feelings exist on both sides exactly as you describe Brit.
The guilt that one person can feel for being happy

(51:47):
and excited and all of those feelings around pregnancy and
their excitement, but also the sadness that someone can feel
who doesn't have the things that they want in their life.
Those are very complex feelings and they are all okay
at the end of the day, Like it's okay to
have that spectrum.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
I know that there are a lot of people who.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Are going to be listening to this who are experiencing
or have been through very similar situations to this. I
am so interested to know how did being in different
fertility stages affect your friendships?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
How did you navigate this?

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Have you ever had a huge falling out because of
your life situation versus your friends? You know, like, if
you guys have had similar experiences to this, like, please
slide into our DMS and let us know what that
looked like for you. Because it's an ever evolving conversation, honestly,
and it's something we talk about a lot, not just
from work perspective, but actually from a friend perspective. And yeah,

(52:37):
I would love to know how other people show up
in their friendships when these conversations feel incredibly hard.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
Well that is it from us, guys. Please keep all
your questions coming into lifeun Cup podcast Instagram. You are
always anonymous, so you're ask gun cuts or you're accidentally
on filtered confessionals. It's about time we did It's more confessionals.
So anything that you want to let us know, or
if you want to just talk about what we talked
about on episode, send it into life on Cup Podcasts.
Also remember the discussion group on Facebook where there are

(53:05):
some beautiful conversations going down. There are some very funny
conversations going down. We also have our YouTube.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Yes I was just gonna say YouTube. If you haven't
looked at it yet, go subscribe and you can see
us all in the flash of the entire episode.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
And you know the drest Hey, mum, te Dad, tell
you dot tear friends and shared love because

Speaker 1 (53:22):
We love love