October 28, 2024 • 41 mins
Hey Lifers!
Britt has potentially found a new life... as a trad wife!
Either that or she's going off grid more often.
Laura has had a bit of a mishap spreading her beautiful grandparent's ashes.
How do you feel about sharing your kids online? Where is the line when it comes to kids being paid to create online content?
You might remember the horrible story of the mum, Ruby Franke, who was charged with 4 counts of child abuse earlier this year. There is a brand new film called 'Mormon Mom Gone Wrong' that came out on Oct 26 that details the story of the Franke family and their youtube account that had 2 million subscribers.
Shari Franke is now 21 years old and has shared her testimony in court about her experiences of abuse and family vlogging. She states that there is no such thing as a moral and ethical family vlogger.
We unpack these questions:
-
Should children have a say in family vlogging content?
-
What are the ethical implications of involving kids in content?
-
Can you get informed consent from kids?
-
How should kids be ‘compensated’ if they are making content that makes money?
-
Does it matter if they make money? Does it change when it becomes a significant income source?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm Brittany and I am Laura. I had an.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Incredible, well, actually an incredible weekend and a really weird
weekend at the same time.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You were posting on socials and it looked so nice.
And I also was confused because I felt like I'd
been left out of this big decision that you'd made
to go away for the weekend. I was like, where
are you? Why are you having such a nice time
without me.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I did see on three different mediums Laura right to me,
where are you, honey?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Love? And I was like, does she think that I've
like set up some big event without her?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, because I didn't get a reply. And then I
kept seeing nice pictures. I was like, oh my god,
I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing.
So I messaged you on Instagram and I was like, hey,
where are you?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
No reply, like you had fomo left on the scene.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Then I messaged you in text. I was like, britt
I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Where are you? And then you replied to everything else.
I was like, why sho she keep you the location
a secret?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I didn't intentionally mean to. I did go away for
one night.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That was it.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I didn't go to be He really built that suspensive me,
though I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, I wanted to keep you on your toes. I
went away for one night, not far.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It was only like an hour and a half, but
I had such a whole I just needed to escape Sydney,
just for.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
A hot second. I just wanted to get away.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I hope you know that where you went to Bundina
is still classified to Sydney.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It is, but it's an hour and a half and
there is nothing around. I was like farm land, like bushland,
and I think I have decided on a new life.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Direction country Britney, farmer, brit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I am going to be a trad wife. I'm going
to be a tradwife.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I baked my bread.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
We went and collected, we foraged for the sixteen free
range chickens, and we got the free range chicken eggs
and we made it eggs onto our bread that we
had baked. We collected the honey from the bee honey hive.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That is also there.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I was looking not over into the hinterland and I
was putting my bee honey and bread, and I was like,
I think I meant to be a trad wife. And
then I came home and had a frozen meal for dinner.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I have always thought, I've always thought those trad wives
have like they've been hard done by in media.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
They really need someone like you to represent them. Do
you reckon?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I'd be like the modern day trad wife where
I just do like one thing a day.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I did genuinely come home reinvigorated, and I was like,
this is the new me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But will you serve your husband and have seventeen children? Well, no,
this is my point.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I genuinely was like, I'm suited to this, Like this
felt so good. But then I did come home, and
as soon as I got home, it was so stressful
that I literally did have a frozen meal for dinner.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I was like, the tradwife's not for me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You think that there's a very big difference between trad
wifing it or just living in the country, which.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Sounds like you I do.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It doesn't sound like you want, like you don't want
the seven kids part, living on a farm with no internet,
like that's not the part you want.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Vlogging your entire life.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Actually, speaking of logging, we have a lot to talk
about on today's episode.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But Britt, I don't see the trad wife life for you.
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Can you actually deal with who I am? Collects one egg?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
She's like trad wife.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I also can't see you cleaning up a chicken coop,
can't see you milking a cow. I just can't see
you doing any of the things that pertain to trad
wife life.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I only see it if you have a Wi Fi connection,
like I think that's where you draw the line.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Dude, how do you think trad wives upload their trad
life Wi Fi? They have Internet?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
This is true. That's how they're so famous. It's very true. Well, look,
our weekends were very different. I really don't know how
to share this story with you. Oh God, I just
spit it out. I'm just going to go with it.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So on the weekend, we did something that was well,
on one hand, it was very sentimental and on the
other hand, I don't know how to talk about it
because I'm gonna laugh and it's totally inappropriate. We scattered
my grandparents' ashes on the weekend, right, so tell me
when I Yeah, I got the hard.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Bit out first.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So you guys might I mean you might remember or
if you've listened to the pod for a little while.
So my papa passed away a few years ago, my
nan passed away this year. They were literally parents to
me like I am, and have been so close with
my grandparents. I lived with them growing up like they
were my parental figures.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And so today, yes, no, it wasn't today, it was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
So yesterday it was kind of a big deal and
a big day and something that we've always known that
we were going to do. And so my Nan, for
my entire life, would always make this joke. She would
always say, ah, when I'd die, just cremate me and
throw me off Mount Kira. Now she would say it
so frequently that it almost became a bit satirical, Like
she would say it would be having Christmas lunch and
(04:29):
she's like, oh God, when I die, just toss me
off Mount Kira.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, I don't think that's a joke.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think she's trying to make sure you all know
that she wants to be at Mount Kira.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
We did, literally for as long as my memory goes back.
I remember my nun saying, just toss me off Mount Kira,
and so my papa would always just be there and
he'd just chuckle along.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But they always said they wanted it to be done together.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Just throw them off Mount Kira, even to the point
where so my papa, he's Italian, and in Italian culture,
you don't get cremated, you get buried. Right, So my
nan was telling my nuna a million years ago, this
is just like kind of like an old story from
my family. My nana was telling my nuna that they
were going to get cremated and thrown off matt Kira,
and my nunna had this full blown Italian melt down
(05:10):
at the table and was.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Like, you're don da Berna my tawny screaming at my nan.
I don't know if I can do accents, but it's
my own nuna, so I feel like I can. Yeah,
that's not a preparation if it's y nan, am I
getting canceled with that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, you are Italian, You're Italian, guy, You're Italian.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I'm Italian.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We're so worried that now you can't even impersonate your
own grant.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Rest in peace. Oh, it's just an accent. She has
an accent.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
So yesterday the day came and for something that should
feel very reverend and should feel I don't even know
how to describe it. I think I had it built
up in my mind that it was going to be
this like really solemn experience. But if you have ever
done an ashes scattering, I'm curious as to whether you
felt the same as me. There was something quite unreverend
(05:52):
about it, because firstly we get them. My mum's got
a Woolies bag, and inside the Wooli's bag is my
nan and my papa and she pulls it out, and.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Why is she in a Woolies Because the funeral parlor
I didn't know this.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
They gave my nana in a plastic ziplock bag, a
huge plastic ziplock bag.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Unless you like pre buy the urn or have it ready,
then that's how.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It goes to You keep it, yes, put it in
something nice. Yeah, but you've got to buy the urn.
I gave the mouth. It's not like you get a
car you can earn.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So my mum obviously over the budget option, but we
knew we knew we were scattering anyway, So NaN's in
a plastic griplock bag. Papa is in a plastic urn right,
but the lids on it so tight that we needed
to get a screwdriver. So where they're at the lookout
of Mount Kira, there's lots of families. There's lots of
people there just trying to go about their day taking
photos of themselves looking out over the beautiful vista of Woollongong.
(06:46):
And there's my family. The kids are running around with roses.
So finally we get it open. We put them both
into the same plastic griplock bag, so you mix them together.
We mix them together. That's cute, beautiful. They're together again,
and it would have been their seventy third wedding Anniverse. Oh,
I just got goosebumps because they were always together.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
To Bully's bag more, could you want.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The grat plastics through the ziplock bag. Mum cuts the
corner off the bags. Apparently you don't just open the
ziplock bags. It goes everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So she cuts the corner off, hands it to my sister.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
My sister leans out over the fence and does a
bit of the scattering, and then it's my turn and
I get the bag and I do a bit of
the scattering, and as I'm doing the scattering, the top
of the ziplock bag.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Because it's so heavy, because it's.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Got two lots of ashes in, it opens up. So
then it's pouring out from both sides and my Mum's
in the cornering save for me, that's not funny. So
I panicked because it was coming out too quickly, so
I tried to stop it.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And as I tried to stop it, I flicked the
bag and the ashes.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Flicked up and went pushes straight down the front of me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Laura, did you eat Papa?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Papa went down my top and down my per Everyone
was laughing and no one was helping me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I was going to put a hand down your
pants to get Papa out. What did you want them to? Dismat?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Got the whole thing on video, but I really I
just don't know if I'm at a point where I
can share it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Because it feels it feels too inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
But as it was all happening, I was like, Papa
would have found this funny.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
He would have laughed and Nana would have laughed too.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And I know exactly what you're saying. And I don't
want to compare your papa and your nana to a
bag of soil. But when you're fuck I listen because
I know what you're saying. When we know, when you've
got a huge bag of soil and you're pouring and
you get to the point where too much goes, you
can't stop it, and so like trying to put it
back in.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So imagine so imagine that with soil and so there's
a bit more dense, whereas like ash. If you've ever
scattered ashes, it's so light, it's so just like it's
just nothing ness.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
It's like on a mountain, how compound, you know, wind
blowing up?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, it literally just flicked back on me. Anyway, was
he still in your pants? Now? These other pants are
all yesterday, haven't watched them yet. Papa is literally in
this room. Papa's all around us.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
My sister said to me, don't you fucking dare tell
this story on the podcast?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And I was like, you come on. I was like,
Papa would have laughed. Tapa did it for this reason.
Now he's immortalized on lifel cart. He knew we needed content,
he knew you needed something.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I think he knew that if he was going to
do that to anyone, it should have been you, because
you would see the humor in it, whereas everyone else
might have gotten a little bit sad that they had
to clean him out of there.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So great, don't you remember a couple of years ago we.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Had an accidentally unfiltered, like we had a life for
writing in and she was like on the coastal walk
on this like really romantic moment with someone and she
started to make out with him and they had this
beautiful like date and then they could feel something on
them and around them and they didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, the wind kicked up and they were covered in dust.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, the wind, And I was like all this dust
and then like what is this? And then they looked
up and someone was spreading their ashes off c and
it just went straight onto this couple that we're trying
to make out.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's hectic, Hattic.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I do want to say, look seventy three years Nana
and Papa. I know you don't listen to Laugh on Cut,
but I think about you all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Don't you Reckon?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There's like a big party up there and they're all
listening to Life on Cut.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Probably not, I reckon they're hanging around buying chess. I
really hope that they're not listening.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
The only thing I want to say, though, is if
you're someone who has done an ASHES scattering, I'm sure
that there's different levels of how sad and solemn it
feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I'm sure that that some people.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Have done it and it's been incredibly like devastating to
have to do it. And then I'm sure that there's
been people who have also done it and it's been
like beautiful, but they've also been able to see the
funny side like we did too. So I just want
to say, like, I know that other people's experiences would
have been different, but I think that there needs to
be a better system for the scattering. That's the only
thing I think most people, depending on where you've done it,
(10:51):
it is not conducive for going out into the wind.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It really does just go everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And we're laughing because we're not I mean, we're not
laughing at anyone in particular. It's a situation that I
think can be lighthearted. Having said that, it was on
my grandpa, So I'm sorry if you're offended. He knows
we love him.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I love how much we have to preface everything so
that we don't funny.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
There are so many videos I have seen of like
I saw another woman.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's not funny, but I saw another woman going to
the ocean and her cartoner was obviously filming it. She
was like me deep, she got this big thing of
her ashes. She threw them out in the window, just
blew straight her face.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I just blew it straight.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Back at it, and I was like, these things shouldn't
be funny, but they are, And like, I think he
does have to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It reminds me of that then from White Lotus where
she's hanging off the side of them. Hey, I do
have an update.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Actually, sometimes I forget maybe how big this podcast is.
Sometimes I feel like we come into a room and
I know we've said this before. Sometimes I think we
come into a room we just sit down and have
a yarn. A couple of people listen.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And we're so glad that you guys listen to us.
We love you all.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, I got a dem so you might remember remember
last week we were talking about Hen's parties and the
kind of Hen's party that we want. Now I'm going
to cast you back. Laura because I can see that
you've forgotten. We talk about so much on this podcast,
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So we were joking about the kind of hens that
I would want, which is pretty low key.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
That's right. You wanted that stripper, the famous stripper.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, the Channing tATu Magic my stripper.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay, I get a DM from Channing Tatum Magic Mike Stripper.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
He's like, hey, her, do you want me a strip party?
I'm there? Cut me in, you know, can you send
me his details? Because he doesn't need to do it
all Channing Tatum Stripper. I was like, I don't know
how to respond to this because I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Be locking in my own magic mic dancer.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And I was like, I feel like this is inappropriate.
But he's like, yeah, I got you. And I was like, well,
the world works fast, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And he's like yeah. He's like a few people sent
it to me saying you were king for me, and.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I was like, I was like, what life is? You
have our back?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Thank you for that, thank you for doing the organizational
work for me.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
So now he's keen. But what I do want to
say is well I can't.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Organize it yourself.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
You have to pass his details onto me, and as
your producer, I will organize.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I will produce your Hen's party with the Magic Mike stripper. Yes,
I definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Can't organize the stripper myself. If Beny's going to listen
to this and be like, Brittany, I heard you organizing
your stripper, It's like this wasn't Donack shocked on the day,
We're like, oh, who's this?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How did he get here? And you specifically choose this one.
You're like, I want him and only him. Hang on, Yeah,
but I want people to understand I didn't put that.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That was one comment that we made on the podcast
where I was like, I don't think i'd want to strip,
but the only one i'd want is like a magic
mic dancer that actually like he performs constantly, like around
Australia overseas, he knows the moves.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think we need to just insert the actual audio here,
because that is not what you said said you wanted
the guy who looked like chatting Tatum.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Insert audio here, Keisha, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Yeah, so you don't want strippers.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm not opposed to a stripper, but like in the
Daylight still I don't want to be drunk at midnight
with it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, with a dick in my face. He would be good.
Who I would approve.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I actually have spoken to him before online, not in
that way in a business sense.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Wow, this sounds so bad. I did slide into his dance.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The very famous stripper in Australia. He works for Magic
Mike and he looks exactly like chatting Tatum. Have you
seen him?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, I've seen him. When I say I.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Spoke to him, I need to clarify this because someone's
going to run with it. I think it was about
a radio segment many many moons ago. We were going
to get him on. He's someone like him would be great.
But the other reason I thought he would be good
is because it's actual entertainment, Like they are proper dancers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
They're really good. The whole on trage is coming. I'm like,
bring your friends.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But it's also it's the kind of dance where I
feel like people feel more comfortable with it because his
job is to dance, it's not his job is not to.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Strip per se Like, sorry, I'm really concased. Yes, I'm
trying to get myself out of it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Because Ben's listening, I'm confused as to who you're trying
to convince you. Okay, so we know we're trying to
convince Ben. Okay, Hey, then I'm organizing a stripper. You
have no idea who it's going to be. Ooh surprise.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
But the other good thing is, and this is what
I would want. I don't want him to come for me,
like I don't want him to come will I definitely
don't want him to come for me. I don't want
him to just come to dance for me like you
know how usually.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They put the hand in and I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I want it to be like a private Magic Mic
where he's getting people up and he's doing the moves
and he's on every He's on everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I understand, and I will go as tribute. It's okay,
Laura volunt this tribute anyway. That's my update.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I will link you somehow to Magic Mic.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Thank you. Send it to Kisha, she's better at organizing
for me. It will never happen.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
If Laura, I'll.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Be like, wait, you're getting married? Is it in the
calendar time? Can someone put it in time already? I
will double book.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
What we wanted to talk about in today's discussion is
around the ethics of sharing your kids online. But not
just sharing your kids online, because I think that that
is something that every parent has to consider, But what
about those who make money from sharing content of their
children and specifically family vlogging. So there's different types of
content of which people share and how they make money
(16:17):
from sharing their family or their children. But family vlogging
is a very particular kind of all access and unvetted
access into people's lives where they share the ins and
outs of everyday life, about their family, about their children,
and they also monetize it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You guys might remember Ruby Frankie. She was a very
famous family vlogger. She was like a mummy vlogger, but
it went further than mummy vlogging. It was family vlogging.
Her entire family of eight people were involved twenty four
hours a day in a YouTube channel called eight Passengers.
So this YouTube channel has over two million subscribers, is
absolutely massive, and this family were one of like the
(16:54):
earlier people that dabbled in family vlogging. And a lot
of people don't know, but Salt City in Utah has
one of the highest populations of the Mormon faith. So
a lot of them have a lot of kids, and
because of that, they tend to share their families online
because they want to help spread the faith. So if
you don't know this story, I just want to set
(17:15):
it up a little bit further. So Ruby is the mum.
Her business partner Jody Hildebrandt, was arrested last year alongside
Ruby for child abuse. So two of their children were
found extremely malnourished, with saws, cuts and bruises on their
ankles and their wrists from being chained up. The abuse
that they were experiencing by these two women was really
(17:39):
really hard to watch. It's even hard to talk about.
So in February, Frankie was sentenced to up to thirties
in prison for brutally abusing two of these six children
in quote concentration camp like settings. The reason we're talking
about this now is that a film named Mormon Mum
Gone Wrong has just come out on October twenty six
and it details the experience so the Frankie family went through.
(18:01):
The problem is, the Frankie family weren't consulted at all.
So the twenty one year old daughter, Shari Frankie, she
has come out begging people not to watch it because
she has said no one that was involved in the
making of this film has consulted our family.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, it just shows how the family is being further
exploited one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And secondly, Shari Frankie has started a whole new conversation
about if family vlogging should even exist, if children should
be being exploited to make money for the family, even
if it goes back to the child making money for
the parents, or is it in fact another form of
child abuse.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Now the reason why I think that this is such
an interesting conversation to have, and I also want to
be really clear around the bias here, because we spoke
about whether we wanted to talk about this in today's episode,
and part of me was like, Oh, how do I
talk about something when I also share my kids online?
And Shari had some really incredibly valid points around the
(19:03):
insidious side of child blogging and family blogging, and I
think that there is so much about what she said
that has value and wait, and then there are also
some things that I really wanted to get in discussing
this is what Shari had to say.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
There is no such thing as a moral or ethical
family blogger. Many child influencers are paid for their work,
as I was, and this money has helped me in
my adult life. However, this payment was usually a bribe.
For example, we'd be rewarded one hundred dollars or shopping
trip if we filmed a particularly embarrassing moment or an
exciting event in our lives. There is no law in
place to guarantee that child influencers get any money from
(19:37):
their work. Any payment that does happen is under the
table with no paper trail. And how do we determine
how much a child should make from appearing in family content?
What price is worth giving up your childhood? The camera
never stops, and there is no such thing as a
break from filming. In any other context, it is understood
that children cannot give consent, but for some reason, people
think family vlogging is different. In addition, pedophile stock the
(19:59):
internet specifically seeking out child influencers. I promise you that
the parents are aware of these predators and choose supposed
to children anyway. If I could go back and do
it all again, I'd rather have an empty bak accountant
now and not have my childhood plastered all over the internet.
Family vlogging ruined my innocence long before Ruby committed a crime.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Firstly, I think it's incredibly devastating to hear Shahi's opinion
and her take on the experiences that she had as
a child. But it does bring into question like where
is the line? And for a industry that I know
that this is based in Utah, but an industry that
is so hugely unregulated even here in Australia, what are
the parameters that there are to protect children apart from
(20:40):
just hoping that the way that the parents are engaging
with those kids online is in an ethical way.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think this case in.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Particular is really interesting and it's hard to compare it
across the board to every other family vlogging because there's
obviously another layer of extreme abuse that was happening behind
closed doors. So I don't want to say that this
case should be the blanket case that we use for
family blogging, because I hope that no other situations like
this are existing right now. But it's interesting to hear
(21:07):
her say I would rather not have a dollar now
and go back and have my childhood. I mean that's
easy to say as well when you have money, but
when you look at some of the young YouTube families
and kids. I understand why families do it one hundred percent.
And I know we've talked about this before, but there
are some kids and families on YouTube that are earning
(21:29):
upwards of fifty million dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, it's crazy. Now.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I guess I kind of have two feelings about this.
And as I said, you know, we obviously, like Matt
and I, we do share parts of our lives online.
And I was trying to see, okay, well, where does
the ethics sit for me? Like what am I and
aren't I okay with when it comes to sharing my kids.
Where it becomes insidious and where it becomes a real
problem is when the entire family income, all the majority
(21:56):
family income, comes from expecting your children to partake in content.
Because once that becomes the parameters for how you make
your income as a family, it makes it impossible for
a child to not be involved in it. It's a
job that they can't quit. It's a job that they
can't opt out of because your livelihood is dependent on
the holiday that you go on where you're promoting xyz
(22:18):
or the products that you've been given where you're promoting them,
and I think about it in terms of our life
and how we manage to negotiate around it. Doing content
online is absolutely not our bread and butter, and we
therefore have the opportunity to pick and choose the things
that we know we have control over in it is
a way that we feel completely ethical around because our
(22:39):
main income sources come from other things. But it absolutely
makes me question and makes me have these moments where
I'm like, Okay, well, what are the parts that are
okay to share and what are the parts that as
a family you have to keep sacred and to yourself.
One statement that Shari said in her testimony was some
of our most popular videos were when my eyebrow was
accidentally waxed off. The whole world saw a crying teenager
(23:02):
who just wanted to mourn in private. One time, I
was violently ill and got the leading role in the
family video for that day. My friends became scarce because
dates would be filmed and none of my friends wanted
to be on camera. The camera never stops, and there
is no such thing as a vacation from filming. That
is horrific, that is not unboxing, that is not giving
your child a present that is capitalizing on some of
(23:24):
their lowest and darkest moments, like for your child to
be trying to figure out who they are, going through
something traumatic in their life and you've been like, hold on,
don't cry anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I've got to get the camera. If your child is
violently ill and your first thought is to not go
to them and help them look after them, is to
get the camera because that'll get good views, then yes,
that is a form of abuse and no child in
the world should be doing that.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, but I think, I mean, the line is blurry
because I mean, how much content have you just stumbled
across online where it's parents intentionally humiliating their kids because
it's funny or it gets clicks. And I know we've
spoken about it lightly before. We talked about on the
radio show, even the stupid egg challenge, which hated that
which is nothing. I know, it's nothing, but every time
I would see the egg challenge, it made me feel
(24:07):
so fucking rageful. And if you're not familiar with the
egg challenge, it's basically where you ask your child, oh, like,
come and cook with me. We're going to make a cake,
and then you crack an egg on their head. And
they then you film their reaction, and the only reaction
that there is in that moment is either betrayal because
the kids so confused that you wanted to spend time
with them and then you cracked an egg on their
(24:27):
head instead, or it's like feeling of embarrassment and then
you're filming their embarrassment. And I know it's not a
big deal because when we spoke about it, I know
it's not a big deal to some people. I know
when we spoke about it on radio, some people were like, Oh,
it's just a joke, get over it. Yes, I do
agree that it's okay to have jokes with your kids,
but if the only premise that you have that joke
(24:48):
is because you're filming it for other people on the
internet to laugh, then it kind of goes beyond it
just being a joke. You're doing it for content, and
that's the thing that I don't like about it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So what's the line for you and Laura?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I mean, I kind of mentioned it in terms of
like having additional revenue streams. It's tricky because when I
listen to this speech, it definitely made me question and
it definitely made me think whether I am at doing
the right thing and whether we're approaching our social media
in the right way. I think up until day we've
definitely been very on the same page with stuff. But
(25:22):
this concept, and I do absolutely and deeply agree with
what Shari is saying, is that children don't have the
ability to consent. And in every other aspect of life
we talk about, well, kids are miners, and kids don't
have conscious consent around the things that they are or
aren't involved in. And I also do think that kids
very much want to make their parents happy, so of
(25:44):
course they're going to say yes to doing things that
maybe they don't want to do. And I guess where
the line is for me in terms of monetary income
is that we have a very separate account for both
of our children and every job that they do. When
I say job, anything that they partake in on social media,
where there's an income that's made, that money goes into
their account. I hope that when they're older, they don't
(26:06):
have the opinion of like, well, I didn't need all
this money, Mum, I just didn't want to have any
photos on the internet.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But it could be the case.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
And that's what made me think this, and it's not
because I have the answers to it. It's purely because
I was like, well, how do you know if you're
doing the right thing? And I do think that it
is an incredibly unregulated space, and I absolutely do believe
that there needs to be more regulations that are put
into place, and whether those regulations come down to how
parents share content or whether those regulations more pertain to
(26:37):
how that income is absolutely safeguarded for the children, because
I do agree with this idea that there's a lot
of kids who are doing social media for their parents
and they're making incredible money, like crazy, crazy amounts of
money that some of these kids would be earning, but
that money is not going to the children. It's going
into the parents' account, and then the parents get to
(26:57):
decide how much of it they give to the kids
all what part of it the kids get as payment
And is that the holiday, Is that the unboxing of
the gift or is it actually the monetary amount that
they're receiving at the end.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Also, well, that is a conversation we've had so many times,
and not just we, but society and media have had
that conversation. What's too much should kids be involved in content?
But I think Shari has added another layer to the
conversation by saying, oh, I got the money, that's not
the problem. My parents paid me. I'm living well now,
I'm at Uni, I've got an apartment.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Great.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I would still rather not have a dollar. So she
has added another level to the conversation saying it's not
about that I worked for free. Because she got all
the money, she would still rather have nothing than have
been put through what she put through in her childhood.
And it's interesting because we talk about consent and informed consent.
Children can't give informed consent because they don't have the ability,
(27:46):
the conscious ability. They can say, oh yeah, I'll film this.
And there are Instagram captions that I found on Shari's
own Instagram from just a couple of years ago when
she was under eighteen, but she was a teenager. They're
talking about how happy she was to shared a life
and I'm so glad to have been able to share
my life with you and growing up in front of
you in all these beautiful captions. And then only a
(28:07):
couple of years later, when she's actually an adult and
she's able to make a conscious decision herself, she's realized.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Fucking hell, like, what was my childhood?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I was so conditioned to even that was just a
standard statement to come out being like, you know, great
growing up in front of you, when she hated every second.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I think it's important, though, that we distinguish the fact
that we're kind of conflating or vlogging at the moment.
I think that there are very big differences, and I
don't want to discredit anything that Shari says because this
is her own experience, and I know at the very
beginning of her speech she said, I am the daughter
of someone who was convicted of child abuse, but I'm
not coming to you as that person today. I don't
(28:46):
think that you can extrapolate the two because her version
of being a child vlogger was that it was unrelenting
that every single experience of her life was shared publicly
and for literal public viewing of anyone online. Whereas I
think if people like not So Mumsy, for example, so
masille leone, you guys might be familiar with her if
you're a mum yourself. She has shared parts of her
(29:10):
motherhood journey, she has shared parts of her children, but
she picks and chooses the things that she shares in
a way that I think is very, very curated and
creates a lot of protection around her children as well.
As much as I know that she has a son
and she has a daughter, I haven't seen the intricacies
of their life. I don't see when they're upset, or
when they're having tantrums or when they're sick, Like you
(29:32):
only see the little bits and pieces that she has
obviously made the decision that she feels safe in sharing.
And I guess there has to be this kind of
understanding that most parents don't want to exploit their children.
Most parents love their kids and don't want to treat
them in a way that would in any capacity bring
harm to their life or exploit their most vulnerable moments.
(29:54):
But obviously some people do. And in this instance, this
Ruby Frankie woman didn't care about her kids as much
as she cared about her online fame and growing her
online community. And the only way to grow her online
community to that level was to share more and more
and more of her children's life, right, So she made
that trade off because ultimately she's a pretty fucking shitty mum.
(30:15):
But I don't think that she's the benchmark for all
mothers online The other thing I want to add in
this is that I know that there are a lot
of mums who start online blogging, and I don't mean
vlogging like video blogging their entire life. They start blogging,
they share bits and pieces that they choose all their
content creators where they share bits and pieces on Instagram,
because when you first have a baby, being a mom
(30:38):
kind of consumes your entire identity for a little while.
You feel as though that's literally your whole person is
that you're a mum purely because you have this baby
that's attached to you, that has just come out of you.
You've experienced this thing that you've never ever experienced before.
And sharing content online also allows some mums to find
their own community to contribute to that conversation around motherhood.
(31:00):
So I do think that there have been loads of
beneficial and really positive things that have come out of
the space. I don't think we can just completely whitewash it.
I think that there has to be a line that's
kind of somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, And the last thing that I want to add,
which it'd be remissive us not to add it, it's
the elephant in the room but Shari goes on in
her statement to say, the fact is there are pedophiles
and creeps that troll the internet, not just for children,
but for family of vlogging, because it's such an excessive
amount of the same child. So it's not like they
(31:32):
just get one picture or one video of a child.
Once they form an attachment to that child and that family,
and that to me makes me feel physically sick. It
makes me feel physically sick to say, but it's an
important part of the conversation. These are all things I
think we all need to consider. And it's not even
quote unquote famous family logging.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
It's this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
If you're an everyday person that shares a lot of
your family, it's also a consideration and just something you
need to think about. I don't think we're ever going
to get to the stage of this society now, and
I think it's only going to get worse where we
keep children off the internet completely.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I kind of want to be clear on this because
I feel like you can go so far down the
really seedy and scary rabbit hole. We've had bonds Baby
for as long as we could have imagined. There's a
photo of me and Mary on the back of a
bus at the moment, Ambassadors for Cancer counsel that money
is going into my kid's account. And they are in
a campaign which one it's an incredible message around sun's safety. Two,
(32:28):
they're fully clothed, wearing hat, sunglasses and everything else. And
I don't see that as being unfettered access to their lives.
I see that in the same way that any kid
who's in a commercial. I see that in the same
vein if it is your only source of income, you
don't have the opportunity to say no, you don't have
the opportunity to choose something else. It's not our only
(32:49):
source of income. It's a thing that we can opt
into and opt out of whenever we want to. And so,
and I absolutely want to say, like, my perspective on
this is not static. It's changed since the kids were little,
and it's continuing to change as.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
They grow up.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I even think of people like, for example, Steph Claire Smith.
She recently shared that she's no longer going to share
her son's face online. But I also find that an
interesting balance because although she doesn't share his face, she
still shares so many stories about him, and also still
shares photos of him just blows his face out, So
it's like, well, how much of the story is his
(33:23):
story versus just being the image of him as a kid.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I did see her talk about that, though, and I
found that all very interesting and I completely understand why
she's doing it. She just said, he's getting to the
stage now where he's not just a baby, he's a boy,
and he's very recognizable, and I don't she's got over
a million followers. She's like, people will recognize him and
call out to him on the street. Strangers, She's like,
and he I don't want him to start to confuse
(33:46):
Do I know that person? Do I know that stranger?
And when she explained it, it made a lot of sense.
But the reaction from the audience was really interesting, Like
some people were quite angry.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And having to go at it.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Have been like, mate, you've shared his face his whole life.
What's the difference now?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And because they feel a sense of entitlement, that's scary.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, that's what comes back to the next question on
are we enabling this as viewers? Are we We're the
ones that are giving them the two million views on YouTube,
We're the ones that are engaged in their family. We
do see now that reality TV is getting more cliques
and views than drama. So that's a question we need
to ask ourselves, why are we so obsessed with these families?
And should we be so obsessed with these families?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But I also and I mean, I'm just thinking of
examples that kind of live in the Australian sphere, because
obviously this is a Utah family.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
They're a Mormon family.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
They're a big family and part of something that you
established at the start brit And something that Shari speaks
about in her speech is that it is quite specific
to Utah in that Mormon families want to spread the
message of their spiritual beliefs and so it's advantageous to
them to share more and more about their family life
and how those family structures work. But someone who comes
to mind is really famous Australian family vlogger Kat Clark,
(34:54):
and she kind of came under scrutiny last year because
her daughter was unenrolled from school was going to be homeschooled,
and there was a couple of quotes in there because
their life and their careers have changed and it would
allow them to be more accessible to film tiktoking takes
a lot of time, so therefore Dejah would be able
to put more time and energy into tiktoking alongside making
(35:15):
school life more flexible for her and her working life.
I guess, like for me, it does make me question
in some of those instances, like where is the line
when your kids income and your kids working at twelve
years old is so intertwined in how your family makes money,
That to me is kind of where the area gets
really gray. And I think that that is the business
(35:36):
family vlogging is where those legislations need to come in
and where the protections and the ethics need to be
investigated further.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, And I mean it's hard if I look back
at my childhood growing up and there was an option
for me to be on YouTube and make fifty million
dollars a year, my parents fucking love me, but I'd
be on there. I would be on YouTube, and that
because it's such a ridiculously unattainable amount of money that
I don't know many people that would say, no, I'd
rather my kid goes to school than stays home and
(36:05):
has fun. There's got a lot of YouTubers that are
on between twenty to fifty sixty million dollars, and I
looked at it before we came in. Here kids and
their families like these are the excessive amount. That's not
the average, But there are people that make hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Do you think that there's a difference between long form content,
which is what exists on YouTube verse, a couple of
photos or a sixty second reel. Yeah, sits on Instagram
one hundred percent. There's a difference in terms of obviously
it's taking a lot more effort and a lot more time,
and it is more invasive to have long form content
one hundred percent to a clip here and there of
a few seconds. But at the end of the day,
(36:41):
once something is on the internet, whether it's a photo,
a three second clip, or a twenty minute clip.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's on the internet. So your child will live on
the internet. Anyone can have access to that child for
the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I guess what I mean by long form content is
that and when we say it feels more invasive, what
I mean is is that you're giving so much more
of them life, You're giving so much more of the
intricacies around their experiences, their vulnerable moments, their childhood. You're
giving that away rather than it being And I know
that we say social media is a highlight reel, but
like a legitimate highlight reel, like here are the things
(37:15):
that I've picked and chosen that are a curated version
of my family.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Would you, as someone who is somewhat in this world, Laura,
would you support stronger regulations legal because I think a
lot of the problem comes back to the fact that
this is all ethical right now. It's kind of each
family to their own and the ethics of the mums
and the dads that impact the children.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Whereas Shahi is pushing.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
To have harsher legislative reforms so that these types of
things cannot happen legally.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I absolutely think that there should be way more legislation
around it. I think it is crazy that it is
up to parents to dictate how their kids, not just
how their kids are shared online, but how their children
are monetized online. I think that there absolutely should be
restrictions around it because, like I said, we can think
think that most people and most parents, and I am
sure it is the majority of parents feel as though
(38:05):
they are doing what they're doing with goodwill as we do,
but also where is the limit if you are left
to make up that decision for yourself. Not everybody has
good judgment. And I think that having parameters that says, okay,
very black and white, this is what the rules are,
would also mean that the situations of children being exploited
in this industry would be far more minimized, or at
(38:25):
least there'd be some very big red flags when it
felt as though the hours of time of which filming happened,
the amount of accessibility, how is the money being distributed,
Like all of those things should be legally declared, I think,
and that's something that's very very different, and I have
no problems with that, Like, I think that that would
be a great thing.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Well, you guys know, we never finished an episode without
our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low ladder.
The week I will kick this bad boy off my suck.
This week is I had a family member really really
unwell in the hospital, and it just gave me a
lot of stress and anxiety. Like our whole family was
very on edge. They are better now, but it was, Yeah,
they were very very unwell for a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So it was very worrying.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
We spoke about this a little bit earlier, and I
am very glad that everything is okay now. But yeah,
you can share what you want to share, but I'm
just glad that things are good. Yeah, but everything's fine,
So thank you, my sweet is. Yeah, I just had
a really nice weekend away. It wasn't anything tried wife. Yeah,
I'm a tried wife, that's way sweet. I just don't
tried wife without the kids. That's not a thing, is it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You can be a tred wife without kids for sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I mean, like I think trade wife is that you're
supposed to then procreate and have lots of them.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I think that's the idea. Yeah, I'm not even it's
a joke.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
I'm not triad wife. Get hallow fresh to live it.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I'm like, tell me your sock, all right.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
My sack for the week is probably that my grandparents
went down my shirt. But like I think that that's
an understandable suck.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Maybe that's the sweet though.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I don't think still come home with you.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
My sack for the week is definitely that. But then
also just this last week was very chaotic in terms
of a lot of things were planned and everything was
scheduled to the nines. Work and family and then ash
scattering and everything was just kind of it was a
really stacked week and things didn't exactly go to plan,
and it was a very very stressful week in terms
of organization and trying to make sure that everyone was
(40:12):
in the places that they needed to be. My highlight
of the week, though, like my sweet for the week
was purely that.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, obviously.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Going and scattering the ashes was nice and I know
that we keep making jokes about it, but it was
a really awesome time with the fam. But my actual
sweep for the week was Saturday. So Saturday we just
went to the farmer's markets with the kids and it
was a really really good day. Like we had this
one moment where Marley was like, this.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Is the best day ever. Please easy, fucking easy to please.
The kids did that. I said the same thing.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I was like, I collected eggs, best day ever. Sarley
also wants to be a try to wine. I'm very
similar to Marley.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
But yeah, no, it was a great weekend all in all,
very family orientated weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Cute. Yeah, well that's it, guys.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Please keep all of your questions coming in you're acidentally unfiltered.
Send them into a Life on Cut podcast. If you
prefer to email us, you can also that we have YouTube.
You can watch everything on YouTube and also.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Go and join the discussion group where all the juicy
shit goes down. That's Life on Cut discussion group.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
But don't just watch YouTube, you subscribe, like, don't just
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Speaker 1 (41:12):
What else can we tell them to do? Leave a
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me page. We send me a carry pigeon, tell you
about you, do your friends, and share the love. Because
we love love. We love love love
This episode was recorded on cameragle Land.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
I'm Brittany and I am Laura. I had an.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Incredible, well, actually an incredible weekend and a really weird
weekend at the same time.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
You were posting on socials and it looked so nice.
And I also was confused because I felt like I'd
been left out of this big decision that you'd made
to go away for the weekend. I was like, where
are you? Why are you having such a nice time
without me.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I did see on three different mediums Laura right to me,
where are you, honey?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Love? And I was like, does she think that I've
like set up some big event without her?
Speaker 3 (00:43):
No, because I didn't get a reply. And then I
kept seeing nice pictures. I was like, oh my god,
I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing.
So I messaged you on Instagram and I was like, hey,
where are you?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
No reply, like you had fomo left on the scene.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Then I messaged you in text. I was like, britt
I don't know where you are, but it looks amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Where are you? And then you replied to everything else.
I was like, why sho she keep you the location
a secret?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
I didn't intentionally mean to. I did go away for
one night.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
That was it.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I didn't go to be He really built that suspensive me,
though I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, I wanted to keep you on your toes. I
went away for one night, not far.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
It was only like an hour and a half, but
I had such a whole I just needed to escape Sydney,
just for.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
A hot second. I just wanted to get away.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I hope you know that where you went to Bundina
is still classified to Sydney.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
It is, but it's an hour and a half and
there is nothing around. I was like farm land, like bushland,
and I think I have decided on a new life.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Direction country Britney, farmer, brit.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I am going to be a trad wife. I'm going
to be a tradwife.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
I baked my bread.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
We went and collected, we foraged for the sixteen free
range chickens, and we got the free range chicken eggs
and we made it eggs onto our bread that we
had baked. We collected the honey from the bee honey hive.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
That is also there.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
I was looking not over into the hinterland and I
was putting my bee honey and bread, and I was like,
I think I meant to be a trad wife. And
then I came home and had a frozen meal for dinner.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
I have always thought, I've always thought those trad wives
have like they've been hard done by in media.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
They really need someone like you to represent them. Do
you reckon?
Speaker 2 (02:20):
No, I'd be like the modern day trad wife where
I just do like one thing a day.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
No.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I did genuinely come home reinvigorated, and I was like,
this is the new me.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
But will you serve your husband and have seventeen children? Well, no,
this is my point.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I genuinely was like, I'm suited to this, Like this
felt so good. But then I did come home, and
as soon as I got home, it was so stressful
that I literally did have a frozen meal for dinner.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I was like, the tradwife's not for me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
You think that there's a very big difference between trad
wifing it or just living in the country, which.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
Sounds like you I do.
Speaker 3 (02:49):
It doesn't sound like you want, like you don't want
the seven kids part, living on a farm with no internet,
like that's not the part you want.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Vlogging your entire life.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Actually, speaking of logging, we have a lot to talk
about on today's episode.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
But Britt, I don't see the trad wife life for you.
I just don't.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Can you actually deal with who I am? Collects one egg?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
She's like trad wife.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
I also can't see you cleaning up a chicken coop,
can't see you milking a cow. I just can't see
you doing any of the things that pertain to trad
wife life.
Speaker 5 (03:15):
I only see it if you have a Wi Fi connection,
like I think that's where you draw the line.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Dude, how do you think trad wives upload their trad
life Wi Fi? They have Internet?
Speaker 1 (03:24):
This is true. That's how they're so famous. It's very true. Well, look,
our weekends were very different. I really don't know how
to share this story with you. Oh God, I just
spit it out. I'm just going to go with it.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
So on the weekend, we did something that was well,
on one hand, it was very sentimental and on the
other hand, I don't know how to talk about it
because I'm gonna laugh and it's totally inappropriate. We scattered
my grandparents' ashes on the weekend, right, so tell me
when I Yeah, I got the hard.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Bit out first.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
So you guys might I mean you might remember or
if you've listened to the pod for a little while.
So my papa passed away a few years ago, my
nan passed away this year. They were literally parents to
me like I am, and have been so close with
my grandparents. I lived with them growing up like they
were my parental figures.
Speaker 1 (04:05):
And so today, yes, no, it wasn't today, it was yesterday.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
So yesterday it was kind of a big deal and
a big day and something that we've always known that
we were going to do. And so my Nan, for
my entire life, would always make this joke. She would
always say, ah, when I'd die, just cremate me and
throw me off Mount Kira. Now she would say it
so frequently that it almost became a bit satirical, Like
she would say it would be having Christmas lunch and
(04:29):
she's like, oh God, when I die, just toss me
off Mount Kira.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Well, I don't think that's a joke.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
I think she's trying to make sure you all know
that she wants to be at Mount Kira.
Speaker 5 (04:36):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
We did, literally for as long as my memory goes back.
I remember my nun saying, just toss me off Mount Kira,
and so my papa would always just be there and
he'd just chuckle along.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
But they always said they wanted it to be done together.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Just throw them off Mount Kira, even to the point
where so my papa, he's Italian, and in Italian culture,
you don't get cremated, you get buried. Right, So my
nan was telling my nuna a million years ago, this
is just like kind of like an old story from
my family. My nana was telling my nuna that they
were going to get cremated and thrown off matt Kira,
and my nunna had this full blown Italian melt down
(05:10):
at the table and was.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
Like, you're don da Berna my tawny screaming at my nan.
I don't know if I can do accents, but it's
my own nuna, so I feel like I can. Yeah,
that's not a preparation if it's y nan, am I
getting canceled with that.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
No, you are Italian, You're Italian, guy, You're Italian.
Speaker 1 (05:23):
I'm Italian.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
We're so worried that now you can't even impersonate your
own grant.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
Rest in peace. Oh, it's just an accent. She has
an accent.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
So yesterday the day came and for something that should
feel very reverend and should feel I don't even know
how to describe it. I think I had it built
up in my mind that it was going to be
this like really solemn experience. But if you have ever
done an ashes scattering, I'm curious as to whether you
felt the same as me. There was something quite unreverend
(05:52):
about it, because firstly we get them. My mum's got
a Woolies bag, and inside the Wooli's bag is my
nan and my papa and she pulls it out, and.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Why is she in a Woolies Because the funeral parlor
I didn't know this.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
They gave my nana in a plastic ziplock bag, a
huge plastic ziplock bag.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Unless you like pre buy the urn or have it ready,
then that's how.
Speaker 1 (06:14):
It goes to You keep it, yes, put it in
something nice. Yeah, but you've got to buy the urn.
I gave the mouth. It's not like you get a
car you can earn.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
So my mum obviously over the budget option, but we
knew we knew we were scattering anyway, So NaN's in
a plastic griplock bag. Papa is in a plastic urn right,
but the lids on it so tight that we needed
to get a screwdriver. So where they're at the lookout
of Mount Kira, there's lots of families. There's lots of
people there just trying to go about their day taking
photos of themselves looking out over the beautiful vista of Woollongong.
(06:46):
And there's my family. The kids are running around with roses.
So finally we get it open. We put them both
into the same plastic griplock bag, so you mix them together.
We mix them together. That's cute, beautiful. They're together again,
and it would have been their seventy third wedding Anniverse. Oh,
I just got goosebumps because they were always together.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
To Bully's bag more, could you want.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The grat plastics through the ziplock bag. Mum cuts the
corner off the bags. Apparently you don't just open the
ziplock bags. It goes everywhere.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
So she cuts the corner off, hands it to my sister.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
My sister leans out over the fence and does a
bit of the scattering, and then it's my turn and
I get the bag and I do a bit of
the scattering, and as I'm doing the scattering, the top
of the ziplock bag.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Because it's so heavy, because it's.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
Got two lots of ashes in, it opens up. So
then it's pouring out from both sides and my Mum's
in the cornering save for me, that's not funny. So
I panicked because it was coming out too quickly, so
I tried to stop it.
Speaker 1 (07:45):
And as I tried to stop it, I flicked the
bag and the ashes.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Flicked up and went pushes straight down the front of me.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Laura, did you eat Papa?
Speaker 3 (07:58):
Papa went down my top and down my per Everyone
was laughing and no one was helping me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
And I was going to put a hand down your
pants to get Papa out. What did you want them to? Dismat?
Speaker 3 (08:09):
Got the whole thing on video, but I really I
just don't know if I'm at a point where I
can share it.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Because it feels it feels too inappropriate.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
But as it was all happening, I was like, Papa
would have found this funny.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
He would have laughed and Nana would have laughed too.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
And I know exactly what you're saying. And I don't
want to compare your papa and your nana to a
bag of soil. But when you're fuck I listen because
I know what you're saying. When we know, when you've
got a huge bag of soil and you're pouring and
you get to the point where too much goes, you
can't stop it, and so like trying to put it
back in.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
So imagine so imagine that with soil and so there's
a bit more dense, whereas like ash. If you've ever
scattered ashes, it's so light, it's so just like it's
just nothing ness.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
It's like on a mountain, how compound, you know, wind
blowing up?
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Yeah, it literally just flicked back on me. Anyway, was
he still in your pants? Now? These other pants are
all yesterday, haven't watched them yet. Papa is literally in
this room. Papa's all around us.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
My sister said to me, don't you fucking dare tell
this story on the podcast?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
And I was like, you come on. I was like,
Papa would have laughed. Tapa did it for this reason.
Now he's immortalized on lifel cart. He knew we needed content,
he knew you needed something.
Speaker 5 (09:22):
I think he knew that if he was going to
do that to anyone, it should have been you, because
you would see the humor in it, whereas everyone else
might have gotten a little bit sad that they had
to clean him out of there.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So great, don't you remember a couple of years ago we.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Had an accidentally unfiltered, like we had a life for
writing in and she was like on the coastal walk
on this like really romantic moment with someone and she
started to make out with him and they had this
beautiful like date and then they could feel something on
them and around them and they didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, the wind kicked up and they were covered in dust.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, the wind, And I was like all this dust
and then like what is this? And then they looked
up and someone was spreading their ashes off c and
it just went straight onto this couple that we're trying
to make out.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
That's hectic, Hattic.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
I do want to say, look seventy three years Nana
and Papa. I know you don't listen to Laugh on Cut,
but I think about you all the time.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Don't you Reckon?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
There's like a big party up there and they're all
listening to Life on Cut.
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Probably not, I reckon they're hanging around buying chess. I
really hope that they're not listening.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
The only thing I want to say, though, is if
you're someone who has done an ASHES scattering, I'm sure
that there's different levels of how sad and solemn it
feels like.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I'm sure that that some people.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Have done it and it's been incredibly like devastating to
have to do it. And then I'm sure that there's
been people who have also done it and it's been
like beautiful, but they've also been able to see the
funny side like we did too. So I just want
to say, like, I know that other people's experiences would
have been different, but I think that there needs to
be a better system for the scattering. That's the only
thing I think most people, depending on where you've done it,
(10:51):
it is not conducive for going out into the wind.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
It really does just go everywhere.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And we're laughing because we're not I mean, we're not
laughing at anyone in particular. It's a situation that I
think can be lighthearted. Having said that, it was on
my grandpa, So I'm sorry if you're offended. He knows
we love him.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
I love how much we have to preface everything so
that we don't funny.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
There are so many videos I have seen of like
I saw another woman.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
It's not funny, but I saw another woman going to
the ocean and her cartoner was obviously filming it. She
was like me deep, she got this big thing of
her ashes. She threw them out in the window, just
blew straight her face.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I just blew it straight.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Back at it, and I was like, these things shouldn't
be funny, but they are, And like, I think he
does have to embrace it.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
It reminds me of that then from White Lotus where
she's hanging off the side of them. Hey, I do
have an update.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Actually, sometimes I forget maybe how big this podcast is.
Sometimes I feel like we come into a room and
I know we've said this before. Sometimes I think we
come into a room we just sit down and have
a yarn. A couple of people listen.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
And we're so glad that you guys listen to us.
We love you all.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
Well, I got a dem so you might remember remember
last week we were talking about Hen's parties and the
kind of Hen's party that we want. Now I'm going
to cast you back. Laura because I can see that
you've forgotten. We talk about so much on this podcast,
I can't remember.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
So we were joking about the kind of hens that
I would want, which is pretty low key.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
That's right. You wanted that stripper, the famous stripper.
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, the Channing tATu Magic my stripper.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, I remember.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
Okay, I get a DM from Channing Tatum Magic Mike Stripper.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
He's like, hey, her, do you want me a strip party?
I'm there? Cut me in, you know, can you send
me his details? Because he doesn't need to do it
all Channing Tatum Stripper. I was like, I don't know
how to respond to this because I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Be locking in my own magic mic dancer.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
And I was like, I feel like this is inappropriate.
But he's like, yeah, I got you. And I was like, well,
the world works fast, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
And he's like yeah. He's like a few people sent
it to me saying you were king for me, and.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I was like, I was like, what life is? You
have our back?
Speaker 3 (12:53):
Thank you for that, thank you for doing the organizational
work for me.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
So now he's keen. But what I do want to
say is well I can't.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Organize it yourself.
Speaker 5 (13:02):
You have to pass his details onto me, and as
your producer, I will organize.
Speaker 1 (13:05):
I will produce your Hen's party with the Magic Mike stripper. Yes,
I definitely.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Can't organize the stripper myself. If Beny's going to listen
to this and be like, Brittany, I heard you organizing
your stripper, It's like this wasn't Donack shocked on the day,
We're like, oh, who's this?
Speaker 1 (13:20):
How did he get here? And you specifically choose this one.
You're like, I want him and only him. Hang on, Yeah,
but I want people to understand I didn't put that.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
That was one comment that we made on the podcast
where I was like, I don't think i'd want to strip,
but the only one i'd want is like a magic
mic dancer that actually like he performs constantly, like around
Australia overseas, he knows the moves.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Stop.
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I think we need to just insert the actual audio here,
because that is not what you said said you wanted
the guy who looked like chatting Tatum.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Insert audio here, Keisha, Yes, exactly.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
Yeah, so you don't want strippers.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
I'm not opposed to a stripper, but like in the
Daylight still I don't want to be drunk at midnight
with it.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Yeah, with a dick in my face. He would be good.
Who I would approve.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I actually have spoken to him before online, not in
that way in a business sense.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Wow, this sounds so bad. I did slide into his dance.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
The very famous stripper in Australia. He works for Magic
Mike and he looks exactly like chatting Tatum. Have you
seen him?
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Yeah, I've seen him. When I say I.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Spoke to him, I need to clarify this because someone's
going to run with it. I think it was about
a radio segment many many moons ago. We were going
to get him on. He's someone like him would be great.
But the other reason I thought he would be good
is because it's actual entertainment, Like they are proper dancers.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
They're really good. The whole on trage is coming. I'm like,
bring your friends.
Speaker 2 (14:48):
But it's also it's the kind of dance where I
feel like people feel more comfortable with it because his
job is to dance, it's not his job is not to.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Strip per se Like, sorry, I'm really concased. Yes, I'm
trying to get myself out of it.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
Because Ben's listening, I'm confused as to who you're trying
to convince you. Okay, so we know we're trying to
convince Ben. Okay, Hey, then I'm organizing a stripper. You
have no idea who it's going to be. Ooh surprise.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
But the other good thing is, and this is what
I would want. I don't want him to come for me,
like I don't want him to come will I definitely
don't want him to come for me. I don't want
him to just come to dance for me like you
know how usually.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They put the hand in and I don't want that.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
I want it to be like a private Magic Mic
where he's getting people up and he's doing the moves
and he's on every He's on everyone.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
I understand, and I will go as tribute. It's okay,
Laura volunt this tribute anyway. That's my update.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
So I will link you somehow to Magic Mic.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Thank you. Send it to Kisha, she's better at organizing
for me. It will never happen.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
If Laura, I'll.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Be like, wait, you're getting married? Is it in the
calendar time? Can someone put it in time already? I
will double book.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
What we wanted to talk about in today's discussion is
around the ethics of sharing your kids online. But not
just sharing your kids online, because I think that that
is something that every parent has to consider, But what
about those who make money from sharing content of their
children and specifically family vlogging. So there's different types of
content of which people share and how they make money
(16:17):
from sharing their family or their children. But family vlogging
is a very particular kind of all access and unvetted
access into people's lives where they share the ins and
outs of everyday life, about their family, about their children,
and they also monetize it.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You guys might remember Ruby Frankie. She was a very
famous family vlogger. She was like a mummy vlogger, but
it went further than mummy vlogging. It was family vlogging.
Her entire family of eight people were involved twenty four
hours a day in a YouTube channel called eight Passengers.
So this YouTube channel has over two million subscribers, is
absolutely massive, and this family were one of like the
(16:54):
earlier people that dabbled in family vlogging. And a lot
of people don't know, but Salt City in Utah has
one of the highest populations of the Mormon faith. So
a lot of them have a lot of kids, and
because of that, they tend to share their families online
because they want to help spread the faith. So if
you don't know this story, I just want to set
(17:15):
it up a little bit further. So Ruby is the mum.
Her business partner Jody Hildebrandt, was arrested last year alongside
Ruby for child abuse. So two of their children were
found extremely malnourished, with saws, cuts and bruises on their
ankles and their wrists from being chained up. The abuse
that they were experiencing by these two women was really
(17:39):
really hard to watch. It's even hard to talk about.
So in February, Frankie was sentenced to up to thirties
in prison for brutally abusing two of these six children
in quote concentration camp like settings. The reason we're talking
about this now is that a film named Mormon Mum
Gone Wrong has just come out on October twenty six
and it details the experience so the Frankie family went through.
(18:01):
The problem is, the Frankie family weren't consulted at all.
So the twenty one year old daughter, Shari Frankie, she
has come out begging people not to watch it because
she has said no one that was involved in the
making of this film has consulted our family.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Well, it just shows how the family is being further
exploited one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
And secondly, Shari Frankie has started a whole new conversation
about if family vlogging should even exist, if children should
be being exploited to make money for the family, even
if it goes back to the child making money for
the parents, or is it in fact another form of
child abuse.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
Now the reason why I think that this is such
an interesting conversation to have, and I also want to
be really clear around the bias here, because we spoke
about whether we wanted to talk about this in today's episode,
and part of me was like, Oh, how do I
talk about something when I also share my kids online?
And Shari had some really incredibly valid points around the
(19:03):
insidious side of child blogging and family blogging, and I
think that there is so much about what she said
that has value and wait, and then there are also
some things that I really wanted to get in discussing
this is what Shari had to say.
Speaker 4 (19:15):
There is no such thing as a moral or ethical
family blogger. Many child influencers are paid for their work,
as I was, and this money has helped me in
my adult life. However, this payment was usually a bribe.
For example, we'd be rewarded one hundred dollars or shopping
trip if we filmed a particularly embarrassing moment or an
exciting event in our lives. There is no law in
place to guarantee that child influencers get any money from
(19:37):
their work. Any payment that does happen is under the
table with no paper trail. And how do we determine
how much a child should make from appearing in family content?
What price is worth giving up your childhood? The camera
never stops, and there is no such thing as a
break from filming. In any other context, it is understood
that children cannot give consent, but for some reason, people
think family vlogging is different. In addition, pedophile stock the
(19:59):
internet specifically seeking out child influencers. I promise you that
the parents are aware of these predators and choose supposed
to children anyway. If I could go back and do
it all again, I'd rather have an empty bak accountant
now and not have my childhood plastered all over the internet.
Family vlogging ruined my innocence long before Ruby committed a crime.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
Firstly, I think it's incredibly devastating to hear Shahi's opinion
and her take on the experiences that she had as
a child. But it does bring into question like where
is the line? And for a industry that I know
that this is based in Utah, but an industry that
is so hugely unregulated even here in Australia, what are
the parameters that there are to protect children apart from
(20:40):
just hoping that the way that the parents are engaging
with those kids online is in an ethical way.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
I think this case in.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Particular is really interesting and it's hard to compare it
across the board to every other family vlogging because there's
obviously another layer of extreme abuse that was happening behind
closed doors. So I don't want to say that this
case should be the blanket case that we use for
family blogging, because I hope that no other situations like
this are existing right now. But it's interesting to hear
(21:07):
her say I would rather not have a dollar now
and go back and have my childhood. I mean that's
easy to say as well when you have money, but
when you look at some of the young YouTube families
and kids. I understand why families do it one hundred percent.
And I know we've talked about this before, but there
are some kids and families on YouTube that are earning
(21:29):
upwards of fifty million dollars a year.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, it's crazy. Now.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
I guess I kind of have two feelings about this.
And as I said, you know, we obviously, like Matt
and I, we do share parts of our lives online.
And I was trying to see, okay, well, where does
the ethics sit for me? Like what am I and
aren't I okay with when it comes to sharing my kids.
Where it becomes insidious and where it becomes a real
problem is when the entire family income, all the majority
(21:56):
family income, comes from expecting your children to partake in content.
Because once that becomes the parameters for how you make
your income as a family, it makes it impossible for
a child to not be involved in it. It's a
job that they can't quit. It's a job that they
can't opt out of because your livelihood is dependent on
the holiday that you go on where you're promoting xyz
(22:18):
or the products that you've been given where you're promoting them,
and I think about it in terms of our life
and how we manage to negotiate around it. Doing content
online is absolutely not our bread and butter, and we
therefore have the opportunity to pick and choose the things
that we know we have control over in it is
a way that we feel completely ethical around because our
(22:39):
main income sources come from other things. But it absolutely
makes me question and makes me have these moments where
I'm like, Okay, well, what are the parts that are
okay to share and what are the parts that as
a family you have to keep sacred and to yourself.
One statement that Shari said in her testimony was some
of our most popular videos were when my eyebrow was
accidentally waxed off. The whole world saw a crying teenager
(23:02):
who just wanted to mourn in private. One time, I
was violently ill and got the leading role in the
family video for that day. My friends became scarce because
dates would be filmed and none of my friends wanted
to be on camera. The camera never stops, and there
is no such thing as a vacation from filming. That
is horrific, that is not unboxing, that is not giving
your child a present that is capitalizing on some of
(23:24):
their lowest and darkest moments, like for your child to
be trying to figure out who they are, going through
something traumatic in their life and you've been like, hold on,
don't cry anymore.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
I've got to get the camera. If your child is
violently ill and your first thought is to not go
to them and help them look after them, is to
get the camera because that'll get good views, then yes,
that is a form of abuse and no child in
the world should be doing that.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Yeah, but I think, I mean, the line is blurry
because I mean, how much content have you just stumbled
across online where it's parents intentionally humiliating their kids because
it's funny or it gets clicks. And I know we've
spoken about it lightly before. We talked about on the
radio show, even the stupid egg challenge, which hated that
which is nothing. I know, it's nothing, but every time
I would see the egg challenge, it made me feel
(24:07):
so fucking rageful. And if you're not familiar with the
egg challenge, it's basically where you ask your child, oh, like,
come and cook with me. We're going to make a cake,
and then you crack an egg on their head. And
they then you film their reaction, and the only reaction
that there is in that moment is either betrayal because
the kids so confused that you wanted to spend time
with them and then you cracked an egg on their
(24:27):
head instead, or it's like feeling of embarrassment and then
you're filming their embarrassment. And I know it's not a
big deal because when we spoke about it, I know
it's not a big deal to some people. I know
when we spoke about it on radio, some people were like, Oh,
it's just a joke, get over it. Yes, I do
agree that it's okay to have jokes with your kids,
but if the only premise that you have that joke
(24:48):
is because you're filming it for other people on the
internet to laugh, then it kind of goes beyond it
just being a joke. You're doing it for content, and
that's the thing that I don't like about it.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
So what's the line for you and Laura?
Speaker 3 (25:00):
I mean, I kind of mentioned it in terms of
like having additional revenue streams. It's tricky because when I
listen to this speech, it definitely made me question and
it definitely made me think whether I am at doing
the right thing and whether we're approaching our social media
in the right way. I think up until day we've
definitely been very on the same page with stuff. But
(25:22):
this concept, and I do absolutely and deeply agree with
what Shari is saying, is that children don't have the
ability to consent. And in every other aspect of life
we talk about, well, kids are miners, and kids don't
have conscious consent around the things that they are or
aren't involved in. And I also do think that kids
very much want to make their parents happy, so of
(25:44):
course they're going to say yes to doing things that
maybe they don't want to do. And I guess where
the line is for me in terms of monetary income
is that we have a very separate account for both
of our children and every job that they do. When
I say job, anything that they partake in on social media,
where there's an income that's made, that money goes into
their account. I hope that when they're older, they don't
(26:06):
have the opinion of like, well, I didn't need all
this money, Mum, I just didn't want to have any
photos on the internet.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
But it could be the case.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
And that's what made me think this, and it's not
because I have the answers to it. It's purely because
I was like, well, how do you know if you're
doing the right thing? And I do think that it
is an incredibly unregulated space, and I absolutely do believe
that there needs to be more regulations that are put
into place, and whether those regulations come down to how
parents share content or whether those regulations more pertain to
(26:37):
how that income is absolutely safeguarded for the children, because
I do agree with this idea that there's a lot
of kids who are doing social media for their parents
and they're making incredible money, like crazy, crazy amounts of
money that some of these kids would be earning, but
that money is not going to the children. It's going
into the parents' account, and then the parents get to
(26:57):
decide how much of it they give to the kids
all what part of it the kids get as payment
And is that the holiday, Is that the unboxing of
the gift or is it actually the monetary amount that
they're receiving at the end.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Also, well, that is a conversation we've had so many times,
and not just we, but society and media have had
that conversation. What's too much should kids be involved in content?
But I think Shari has added another layer to the
conversation by saying, oh, I got the money, that's not
the problem. My parents paid me. I'm living well now,
I'm at Uni, I've got an apartment.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Great.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
I would still rather not have a dollar. So she
has added another level to the conversation saying it's not
about that I worked for free. Because she got all
the money, she would still rather have nothing than have
been put through what she put through in her childhood.
And it's interesting because we talk about consent and informed consent.
Children can't give informed consent because they don't have the ability,
(27:46):
the conscious ability. They can say, oh yeah, I'll film this.
And there are Instagram captions that I found on Shari's
own Instagram from just a couple of years ago when
she was under eighteen, but she was a teenager. They're
talking about how happy she was to shared a life
and I'm so glad to have been able to share
my life with you and growing up in front of
you in all these beautiful captions. And then only a
(28:07):
couple of years later, when she's actually an adult and
she's able to make a conscious decision herself, she's realized.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
Fucking hell, like, what was my childhood?
Speaker 2 (28:15):
I was so conditioned to even that was just a
standard statement to come out being like, you know, great
growing up in front of you, when she hated every second.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
I think it's important, though, that we distinguish the fact
that we're kind of conflating or vlogging at the moment.
I think that there are very big differences, and I
don't want to discredit anything that Shari says because this
is her own experience, and I know at the very
beginning of her speech she said, I am the daughter
of someone who was convicted of child abuse, but I'm
not coming to you as that person today. I don't
(28:46):
think that you can extrapolate the two because her version
of being a child vlogger was that it was unrelenting
that every single experience of her life was shared publicly
and for literal public viewing of anyone online. Whereas I
think if people like not So Mumsy, for example, so
masille leone, you guys might be familiar with her if
you're a mum yourself. She has shared parts of her
(29:10):
motherhood journey, she has shared parts of her children, but
she picks and chooses the things that she shares in
a way that I think is very, very curated and
creates a lot of protection around her children as well.
As much as I know that she has a son
and she has a daughter, I haven't seen the intricacies
of their life. I don't see when they're upset, or
when they're having tantrums or when they're sick, Like you
(29:32):
only see the little bits and pieces that she has
obviously made the decision that she feels safe in sharing.
And I guess there has to be this kind of
understanding that most parents don't want to exploit their children.
Most parents love their kids and don't want to treat
them in a way that would in any capacity bring
harm to their life or exploit their most vulnerable moments.
(29:54):
But obviously some people do. And in this instance, this
Ruby Frankie woman didn't care about her kids as much
as she cared about her online fame and growing her
online community. And the only way to grow her online
community to that level was to share more and more
and more of her children's life, right, So she made
that trade off because ultimately she's a pretty fucking shitty mum.
(30:15):
But I don't think that she's the benchmark for all
mothers online The other thing I want to add in
this is that I know that there are a lot
of mums who start online blogging, and I don't mean
vlogging like video blogging their entire life. They start blogging,
they share bits and pieces that they choose all their
content creators where they share bits and pieces on Instagram,
because when you first have a baby, being a mom
(30:38):
kind of consumes your entire identity for a little while.
You feel as though that's literally your whole person is
that you're a mum purely because you have this baby
that's attached to you, that has just come out of you.
You've experienced this thing that you've never ever experienced before.
And sharing content online also allows some mums to find
their own community to contribute to that conversation around motherhood.
(31:00):
So I do think that there have been loads of
beneficial and really positive things that have come out of
the space. I don't think we can just completely whitewash it.
I think that there has to be a line that's
kind of somewhere in the middle.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, And the last thing that I want to add,
which it'd be remissive us not to add it, it's
the elephant in the room but Shari goes on in
her statement to say, the fact is there are pedophiles
and creeps that troll the internet, not just for children,
but for family of vlogging, because it's such an excessive
amount of the same child. So it's not like they
(31:32):
just get one picture or one video of a child.
Once they form an attachment to that child and that family,
and that to me makes me feel physically sick. It
makes me feel physically sick to say, but it's an
important part of the conversation. These are all things I
think we all need to consider. And it's not even
quote unquote famous family logging.
Speaker 4 (31:49):
It's this.
Speaker 2 (31:49):
If you're an everyday person that shares a lot of
your family, it's also a consideration and just something you
need to think about. I don't think we're ever going
to get to the stage of this society now, and
I think it's only going to get worse where we
keep children off the internet completely.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
I kind of want to be clear on this because
I feel like you can go so far down the
really seedy and scary rabbit hole. We've had bonds Baby
for as long as we could have imagined. There's a
photo of me and Mary on the back of a
bus at the moment, Ambassadors for Cancer counsel that money
is going into my kid's account. And they are in
a campaign which one it's an incredible message around sun's safety. Two,
(32:28):
they're fully clothed, wearing hat, sunglasses and everything else. And
I don't see that as being unfettered access to their lives.
I see that in the same way that any kid
who's in a commercial. I see that in the same
vein if it is your only source of income, you
don't have the opportunity to say no, you don't have
the opportunity to choose something else. It's not our only
(32:49):
source of income. It's a thing that we can opt
into and opt out of whenever we want to. And so,
and I absolutely want to say, like, my perspective on
this is not static. It's changed since the kids were little,
and it's continuing to change as.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
They grow up.
Speaker 3 (33:02):
I even think of people like, for example, Steph Claire Smith.
She recently shared that she's no longer going to share
her son's face online. But I also find that an
interesting balance because although she doesn't share his face, she
still shares so many stories about him, and also still
shares photos of him just blows his face out, So
it's like, well, how much of the story is his
(33:23):
story versus just being the image of him as a kid.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I did see her talk about that, though, and I
found that all very interesting and I completely understand why
she's doing it. She just said, he's getting to the
stage now where he's not just a baby, he's a boy,
and he's very recognizable, and I don't she's got over
a million followers. She's like, people will recognize him and
call out to him on the street. Strangers, She's like,
and he I don't want him to start to confuse
(33:46):
Do I know that person? Do I know that stranger?
And when she explained it, it made a lot of sense.
But the reaction from the audience was really interesting, Like
some people were quite angry.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
And having to go at it.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Have been like, mate, you've shared his face his whole life.
What's the difference now?
Speaker 1 (34:00):
And because they feel a sense of entitlement, that's scary.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Well, that's what comes back to the next question on
are we enabling this as viewers? Are we We're the
ones that are giving them the two million views on YouTube,
We're the ones that are engaged in their family. We
do see now that reality TV is getting more cliques
and views than drama. So that's a question we need
to ask ourselves, why are we so obsessed with these families?
And should we be so obsessed with these families?
Speaker 3 (34:23):
But I also and I mean, I'm just thinking of
examples that kind of live in the Australian sphere, because
obviously this is a Utah family.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
They're a Mormon family.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
They're a big family and part of something that you
established at the start brit And something that Shari speaks
about in her speech is that it is quite specific
to Utah in that Mormon families want to spread the
message of their spiritual beliefs and so it's advantageous to
them to share more and more about their family life
and how those family structures work. But someone who comes
to mind is really famous Australian family vlogger Kat Clark,
(34:54):
and she kind of came under scrutiny last year because
her daughter was unenrolled from school was going to be homeschooled,
and there was a couple of quotes in there because
their life and their careers have changed and it would
allow them to be more accessible to film tiktoking takes
a lot of time, so therefore Dejah would be able
to put more time and energy into tiktoking alongside making
(35:15):
school life more flexible for her and her working life.
I guess, like for me, it does make me question
in some of those instances, like where is the line
when your kids income and your kids working at twelve
years old is so intertwined in how your family makes money,
That to me is kind of where the area gets
really gray. And I think that that is the business
(35:36):
family vlogging is where those legislations need to come in
and where the protections and the ethics need to be
investigated further.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, And I mean it's hard if I look back
at my childhood growing up and there was an option
for me to be on YouTube and make fifty million
dollars a year, my parents fucking love me, but I'd
be on there. I would be on YouTube, and that
because it's such a ridiculously unattainable amount of money that
I don't know many people that would say, no, I'd
rather my kid goes to school than stays home and
(36:05):
has fun. There's got a lot of YouTubers that are
on between twenty to fifty sixty million dollars, and I
looked at it before we came in. Here kids and
their families like these are the excessive amount. That's not
the average, But there are people that make hundreds of
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Do you think that there's a difference between long form content,
which is what exists on YouTube verse, a couple of
photos or a sixty second reel. Yeah, sits on Instagram
one hundred percent. There's a difference in terms of obviously
it's taking a lot more effort and a lot more time,
and it is more invasive to have long form content
one hundred percent to a clip here and there of
a few seconds. But at the end of the day,
(36:41):
once something is on the internet, whether it's a photo,
a three second clip, or a twenty minute clip.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
It's on the internet. So your child will live on
the internet. Anyone can have access to that child for
the rest of their lives.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
Yeah, no, I agree with that.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
I guess what I mean by long form content is
that and when we say it feels more invasive, what
I mean is is that you're giving so much more
of them life, You're giving so much more of the
intricacies around their experiences, their vulnerable moments, their childhood. You're
giving that away rather than it being And I know
that we say social media is a highlight reel, but
like a legitimate highlight reel, like here are the things
(37:15):
that I've picked and chosen that are a curated version
of my family.
Speaker 5 (37:18):
Would you, as someone who is somewhat in this world, Laura,
would you support stronger regulations legal because I think a
lot of the problem comes back to the fact that
this is all ethical right now. It's kind of each
family to their own and the ethics of the mums
and the dads that impact the children.
Speaker 2 (37:36):
Whereas Shahi is pushing.
Speaker 5 (37:37):
To have harsher legislative reforms so that these types of
things cannot happen legally.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
I absolutely think that there should be way more legislation
around it. I think it is crazy that it is
up to parents to dictate how their kids, not just
how their kids are shared online, but how their children
are monetized online. I think that there absolutely should be
restrictions around it because, like I said, we can think
think that most people and most parents, and I am
sure it is the majority of parents feel as though
(38:05):
they are doing what they're doing with goodwill as we do,
but also where is the limit if you are left
to make up that decision for yourself. Not everybody has
good judgment. And I think that having parameters that says, okay,
very black and white, this is what the rules are,
would also mean that the situations of children being exploited
in this industry would be far more minimized, or at
(38:25):
least there'd be some very big red flags when it
felt as though the hours of time of which filming happened,
the amount of accessibility, how is the money being distributed,
Like all of those things should be legally declared, I think,
and that's something that's very very different, and I have
no problems with that, Like, I think that that would
be a great thing.
Speaker 2 (38:44):
Well, you guys know, we never finished an episode without
our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low ladder.
The week I will kick this bad boy off my suck.
This week is I had a family member really really
unwell in the hospital, and it just gave me a
lot of stress and anxiety. Like our whole family was
very on edge. They are better now, but it was, Yeah,
they were very very unwell for a couple of days.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So it was very worrying.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
We spoke about this a little bit earlier, and I
am very glad that everything is okay now. But yeah,
you can share what you want to share, but I'm
just glad that things are good. Yeah, but everything's fine,
So thank you, my sweet is. Yeah, I just had
a really nice weekend away. It wasn't anything tried wife. Yeah,
I'm a tried wife, that's way sweet. I just don't
tried wife without the kids. That's not a thing, is it.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
You can be a tred wife without kids for sure. Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (39:28):
I mean, like I think trade wife is that you're
supposed to then procreate and have lots of them.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
I think that's the idea. Yeah, I'm not even it's
a joke.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
I'm not triad wife. Get hallow fresh to live it.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I'm like, tell me your sock, all right.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
My sack for the week is probably that my grandparents
went down my shirt. But like I think that that's
an understandable suck.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Maybe that's the sweet though.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
I don't think still come home with you.
Speaker 3 (39:50):
My sack for the week is definitely that. But then
also just this last week was very chaotic in terms
of a lot of things were planned and everything was
scheduled to the nines. Work and family and then ash
scattering and everything was just kind of it was a
really stacked week and things didn't exactly go to plan,
and it was a very very stressful week in terms
of organization and trying to make sure that everyone was
(40:12):
in the places that they needed to be. My highlight
of the week, though, like my sweet for the week
was purely that.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, obviously.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
Going and scattering the ashes was nice and I know
that we keep making jokes about it, but it was
a really awesome time with the fam. But my actual
sweep for the week was Saturday. So Saturday we just
went to the farmer's markets with the kids and it
was a really really good day. Like we had this
one moment where Marley was like, this.
Speaker 1 (40:34):
Is the best day ever. Please easy, fucking easy to please.
The kids did that. I said the same thing.
Speaker 2 (40:40):
I was like, I collected eggs, best day ever. Sarley
also wants to be a try to wine. I'm very
similar to Marley.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
But yeah, no, it was a great weekend all in all,
very family orientated weekend.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Cute. Yeah, well that's it, guys.
Speaker 2 (40:52):
Please keep all of your questions coming in you're acidentally unfiltered.
Send them into a Life on Cut podcast. If you
prefer to email us, you can also that we have YouTube.
You can watch everything on YouTube and also.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
Go and join the discussion group where all the juicy
shit goes down. That's Life on Cut discussion group.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
But don't just watch YouTube, you subscribe, like, don't just
watch it?
Speaker 1 (41:12):
What else can we tell them to do? Leave a
review of fuck it, some review textile, some live text
me page. We send me a carry pigeon, tell you
about you, do your friends, and share the love. Because
we love love. We love love love
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