April 27, 2025 • 38 mins
[Part 1 of 2] You know the name—Sporty Spice. But before the world tours, the crop tops, and the legacy of Girl Power, Melanie Chisholm was just a 20-year-old answering a flyer to audition for a girl band.
In this episode Kate Langbroek sits down with Melanie to talk about the real story behind the Spice Girls—what it was like to rise to global fame overnight, and what it cost her.
What you’ll hear in this conversation:
- The highs and heartbreaks of being in one of the biggest girl bands of all time
- How fame impacted Melanie’s mental health
- The deep bond she still shares with her Spice sisters
- Why she's finally made peace with that time in her life
Melanie is honest, grounded, and full of insight. This is the side of Sporty Spice you’ve never heard before.
Listen to part two of this conversation here.
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CREDITS:
Host: Kate Langbroek
Guest: Melanie Chisholm
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Grace Rouvray
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That is the saving grace of being in a band.
There's no one else on the planet. There's five people
who know what it's like to be a Spice Girl,
and even the five of us have very different experiences
of the same thing. But we knew it was so
important for us to be there for each other. Sometimes
that was a toxic environment. We put a lot of
(00:40):
pressure on ourselves and each other, but fundamentally we have
each other's back, you know. To this day, if someone
messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have to
deal with the other four, you know, and to have
that is pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hi, I'm kateline Brook. Welcome to No Filter Ah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The nineties a time of double denim, crimped hair, the
Rachel haircut, and the unstoppable rise of girl bands. And
one name you would remember is Melanie chishlm or maybe
better known as Melsey or the most known as Sporty Spice.
(01:29):
At just twenty years old, a flyer led her to
audition for a girl group, and after countless rounds of auditions.
She would go on to join Ginger, Baby, Scary and
Posh to complete the Spice Girls, a group that would
go on to define a generation. In this conversation, I
had the privilege of sitting down with Melsey as she
(01:51):
pulled back the curtain on an industry that was evolving
just as quickly as she was. While the Spice Girls
were spreading the message of girl power to the world,
behind the scenes, she was struggling to find her own identity.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Among the incredible highs.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Bonding with the women she calls sisters for life, there
were also deeply challenging moments. The pressure of fame took
a toll, with scars that wouldn't fully reveal themselves until
years after the band had broken up. But Mel's story
isn't just about the struggles. She spent years unpacking that
(02:30):
time in her life, making sense of the highs and lows,
and coming to a place of real understanding. And now
she looks back on her Spy Sgirl's days with a
mix of gratitude and honesty, proud of what they achieved,
but also clear eyed about the challenges that came with it.
(02:50):
We talk about life after the spyegirls, how the message
of girl power still lives on today, and whether her
daughter might ever want to follow in her footsteps. Get ready,
This conversation is about to spice up your life litive
concept happiness. But I'm very happy to see you, and
(03:15):
our listeners on No Filter will be so happy to
welcome you, Melanie Chisholm to No Filter. Well, thank you
very much for having me. And of course I could
also call you mil c in relation to another male me,
or I could call you sporty. You could all of
(03:37):
the above. And who do you think of yourself as? Oh,
that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I think I had a bit of a hard time
with Melcy for a while because that's how I was
often referred to in the tabloids, so that sometimes had
a bit of a negative, you know vibe. I'm Melanie,
funnily enough to most people now and not many people
call me male but my old school friends or my mum.
(04:05):
And I'm always sporty. Yes, you're always sporty.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And how interesting to find out that you really properly
always were sporty and that that wasn't an affectation for
the Spice girls.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, I think That's probably one of the biggest misconceptions
about the Space Girls, you know, because people often in
interviews will ask us, you know, when, how did you
feel about your name and having to live up to
this thing, and it's like, well, we were given the names.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It was a little bit of a joke.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It was in a magazine in the UK, and it
was just a bit of a throwaway article, but they
just stuck and the journalists that came up with the names,
he'd done it, whether it was on our appearance or
on our personality, and we loved it. And we actually
now laugh at ourselves and each other because we are
so those people know.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
There's there's no getting away from it.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
We've almost like become you know when you get older
sometimes and people become more of who they are. Yes, annoying,
people get more annoying.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You become more sick in the shape of yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, And I think that's what the Spice Girls have done.
And so I've never not wanted to be sporty, and
I think now more than ever, I celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It was interesting because the guy you were talking about
that was the editor of the what was the Top
of the Pops Meadage exactly, actual genius that he took
all of you. They took the five of you at
that time. And were you performing then or were you
still in that hiddy period where you were building up
(05:39):
to the launch of your album?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Was literally yet we were meeting editors and record companies
and so it was like it was the big build
up before the first single was released.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Incredible because I have to say he nailed you all
in a nice way.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
He did.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, well, yeah, different, he'd be barking up. But so
Peter Lorraine is the guy. We should give him a
name Chase. Actually, he's a very successful music manager now
and he looks after some great artists in the UK.
He's just actually got a great award, a music Award
for all of his services to music. So obviously he
(06:20):
has always had that passion for music and just a
really good air and day.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, going back to the formation of the Spice Girls,
it was such a it feels like it encompassed well
because it goes through it all today. Really, I guess
that's why that it's left such a huge footprint culturally
on music, on fashion, on really on gender studies as well.
(06:51):
But you grew up in a really in a working
class home, you had a loving family, you had the
shock of a divorce in the family, or when your
mum left your dad. So tell me about that little
girl and watch she did and what she felt that
(07:14):
meant that, like, not even two decades laid that she
was confident enough to front one of the biggest outfits
in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it looking back to your childhood,
because obviously it's all you know.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You know, your normality is normal.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
But with hindsight, you know, I think about a lot
of my traits, and you know, I do believe from
those experiences I have become very determined. I really wanted
to succeed. I feel very lucky in finding my passion
early in life. I've always loved performing. My mum's also
(07:53):
a singer, so I'd looked up to her. I kind
of idolized her in a way. But because my mum
and dad weren't together, they both went on to remarry
and have families. I'm the only child of their relationship.
I sometimes felt alone in the world, so that made
me feel quite isolated, and I almost felt like I
(08:13):
had to fight for my place in this world, and
you know that's for good and for bad, but I
think it's definitely one of the factors that gave me
the drive that I have to continue to work in
music and to have had the tenacity to get there
in the first place.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's interesting because one of the themes that kind of
underpins your whole story and to this day is that
working drive. You're such a hard worker, you come from
a family of hard workers, and yet when you're thrown
into well something it didn't exist at the time, but
(08:55):
we know in retrospect came to be such an amazing
thing where there is the option of not working and
embracing this life in which all the riches in the
world are thrust at you with some downsides as well.
How did you navigate that part of us?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I think we all navigated the experience in slightly different ways.
And I think again probably from my background, you know,
being working class from the north of England and my
dad's side of the family being Irish Catholic, so there
was a lot of guilt in that community. Yeah, and
(09:35):
also a bit of like don't get above your station,
you know. So even though I had become successful, there
was always guilt in that I came from very little financially,
so when I was earning good money, it was like
I had to justify that. I had to justify that
to myself, you know, to my family. So I couldn't
rest on my laurels. I had to be the absolute
(09:57):
best I could possibly be, to be worthy of all
of these incredible things that were happening to me. And
that can be exhausting, you know, that can be a
huge burden. And it took a long time for me
to acknowledge and recognize that. And you know, it's I
think it's kind of part of your DNA, so it
never goes away, but I think it's it's important before you,
(10:19):
you know, drive yourself into an early grave by working
yourself to death, that you are aware if that's how
you are driven.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You were always primarily a dancer, also interested in singing,
so you had the showbies. You had the sole roots
from your mom. You had that instinct. So the end
game for people in showbies is to achieve some degree
of success. You know, that's what we all want, but
that can also destroy us. Do you think the guilt
(10:53):
of success is a part of it? Is like the
shadow the shadow behind the mirror.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it has been for a period of my life.
And as I've got older and I you know, I've
had lots of issues, and like lots of people, you know,
as we grow up and we figure out who we are,
I had lots of things that I had to acknowledge
and never come. I've had lots of talking therapy, and
(11:21):
as I'm older now, I definitely have left that behind.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I work hard, and I deserve the good things that
happen to me. It's not all good. Sometimes shit comes
my way and I will deal with that too. But
I think I finally am very proud of myself and
my achievements, and that's okay. You know, it sounds ridiculous,
doesn't it. I think it's such a British thing as well,
(11:49):
and you know, I'm getting to know Australian and Australians more,
but I think we're quite similar as cultures. And I
don't think it's cool to think you're the Besnys or
behave like that, you know, I think it is. It's
definitely a very British thing. But now I think it's
important that we do acknowledge our success.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I'm being worthy of it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, it's an interesting thing because I think you have
to have enough ego to be able to stand up
and present yourself in your case to the world.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
But if you have too much ego, it will destroy you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Absolutely, And you always seem to have come from this
place of I'm not going to say self deprecating, but
you're very humble about your achievements. Like even when I
was reading your book, you never really talk about how
naturally talented you were, because you must have been, because
even as a child you were winning dance competitions. You
(12:47):
always focus on how hard you worked. So interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And yet when that moment came, and I'd love you
to tell me about this, when you went off with
your girlfriend to go to the cruise audition where you're like,
I need work, I'll audition to be a cruise dancer.
There was a guy handing out flyers. This was in
nineteen ninety four. It was yeah, and what did the
(13:18):
flyers say?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it said something along the lines of are you
eighteen to twenty four?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Can you dance? Sing? Are you street wise?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I mean it goes on, but basically it was an
audition for a girl band. So that was it. That
was the thing I wanted to do. I didn't want
to be dancing on cruises.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, and you knew when you looked at that piece
of paper, you knew with all certainty that it meant something.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It was the first time I'd ever seen a flyer
or an ad for an audition like that. And you know,
being a dancer, I was auditioning for theater performances and
you know, lots of different things. But yeah, I'd never
had something which was for the music industry, and that
was really what I wanted to do. I just knew
it was really difficult to get there. So when I
(14:17):
saw that, that's when I you know, it's so weird
because I literally, you know, vividly remember the setting and
the dance studio is still there in London. Actually, it's
just across the road from Selfridges on Oxford Street, and
I remember turning to her. She was on my right,
and I just went, that's it. That's what I'm going
to do. And that went on eventually to become the
Spice guest. And so you go to this audition. How
(14:39):
many girls are they who can sing and dance? Who
believe themselves to be straight smart. I think there was
a few hundred. You know, it wasn't in its thousands,
it was in its hundreds. But yeah, and it was
pretty brutal. You know, working in entertainment, as you will
well know, you know, we have a lot of disappointments
and we have to have quite a thick skin from
(15:01):
the get go. You know, you're probably going to get
told no more than you're going to get told yeah,
you know, or come back, we want to see you again,
and you're prepared for that. Yeah, but this particular time,
I did get asked to come back and we just
had to dance. I mean it was you know, it
was very much on the way you looked initially and
the way that you moved, and then you were asked
to come back and sing, and.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Then how did you look at that time?
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Like what was your look?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
My little luck you can find it online somewhere. So
they were filming us. I had I think I had
a little bob it was pre Posh's bob. And I
think I had like a little bit of a red,
like a henna color my hair, and yeah, I had
like a lilac little cropped terrible Tark. I had no
(15:46):
money at the time, bless me. Yeah, little pair of jeans,
probably some little trainers, but yeah, it was my best outfit.
It's the best sec of muster up on that particular day.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And speaking of the posh Bob, you actually saw her
in the audition, so she was one of the hundreds
of girls.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
She was one of the girls.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So on that day, I think myself, Melby and Victoria
were there and danced and sung for the management team.
But it was later on because Jerry I think she
missed that day but came later down the line. And
then Emma was the missing piece of the jigsaw who
didn't come in to the band for a couple of
months later.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And because initially and I didn't know this, so you.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Were called touch ah that was yeah, that was kind
of our work in progress.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Nowt Yeah, and then you missed getting cast originally because
of your tonsils.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yes, I had horrific tonselitis as a kid, and yeah,
and you know, being a student, living in not the
best conditions and being in dirty dance studios all the time,
I was just yeah, getting it every five minutes, and
I just happened to be sick when the recall audition
was and my mum begged them to give me an
(17:03):
opportunity to get better and come back and see them,
but they wouldn't have it. But luckily for me, not
so much to the other person, one of the girls
they'd cast it, they didn't feel like it worked out,
so they asked me to come along and then that
was it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I was in.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Melsey has much more to share about her time in
the Spice Girls, from building momentum to stratospheric fame and
just who turned down signing the pop group don't go anywhere.
You know those moments and they're very rare in my
life anyway. You know, where you know something with a certainty,
(17:45):
it's almost like a premonition that's a strong as certainty
in that gap between when you didn't get in the
girl group that you'd been so certain when you saw
the flyer, in that intervening period until the phone rang
and they said, guess what, one of the girls is
(18:06):
not right?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Will you come back in? Yeah? How was that period?
What were you doing then?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Were you three thinking I should have done the cruise
audition or no?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Because I was still adamant that that wasn't the direction
I wanted to go in. And I think those moments
in your life are really hard, and it's really hard
to kind of trust your instinct at those times, isn't it,
Because it's like, oh, I was so certain this was
the one, and as well because I've been ill, so
I think I was just like, well, I just got
(18:36):
to get myself better. And I think, you know, being
young and wanting to work in entertainment, I would just
had that.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You know, you just have to get on with it.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You can't let it get you down because there's always
another audition, there's always another opportunity. If you let those
things get to you, you'd never get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So then you found yourself cast and at that statue
was another member of the band touch Yes, Yes, a
girl called Michelle, and then she eventually got got subbed out.
When you were willing to living in a house together
and rehearsing these routines and writing music together then or.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, so well at the time, so it's like it's
quite complicated story, but yes, so there was five of us,
so for you know, Jerry, Victoria, myself and the other
male and a girl call Michelle, and basically the management
put us together. They put us in a little house,
which is brilliant because it was a really great way
to get to know each other.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
But they were giving.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Us songs that are being written by other people, and
the songs were pretty meh and they've mostly been written
by middle aged men, so as well, now the why, Yeah,
that's the way it was the mid nineties in the UK,
and as much as we know appreciated having this, you know,
this support and opportunity. We were having vocal coaching, we
(20:05):
were working on choreography. A few of us were dancers,
so we were helping work through those things.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But yeah, this song thing was.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
An issue because you know, you know the girls, right,
we're pretty feisty girls.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
We've got things to say.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We were having experiences as young women in Britain growing
up in the nineties, so singing these songs about love
written by older men just.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Weren't cutting it for us. So that was probably the.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
First kind of issue that we had with our first
management because we were like, we just we don't connect
with these songs, you know what I mean. Shit, So
we started, you know, in our own little way. None
of us, I mean, I didn't study music to any degree.
You know, none of us played instruments that proficiently, so
(20:51):
we were just singing along, making up songs, and it
was just more about the feeling and what we wanted
to say at that point.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know what, it kind of reminded me of, which
will sound strange, but you know how some Mormons have
a lot of wives, and I read an article once
about the reason.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That the more have a lot of wives.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is what happens is, first of all, there's a hot
young girl that comes in and the Mormon's all like, oh, yes,
yes she's and she's like, I love you, Hank or whatever, and.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Then the women form a bond with each other.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's kind of reminds me of what happened with you
girls where you started to really assert yourselves. Michelle has
left at this point, and then you get Emma on board, baby,
and something happens in which the sum of the whole
(21:44):
becomes so much bigger than the sum of the parts,
and the sum of the parts is already pretty good.
What was that feeling and when was the moment, if
there was one that you went, oh there, something's happening.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It was instant. As soon as you Matt Emmett.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It was really strange because that's another really vivid memory
I have in my mind, remember being in Jerry's car.
She had a little fear, who know, bashed bits, and yeah,
she would drive us everywhere. It's amazing that we're also
living to tell the tale. And we picked up Emma
at the train station and yeah, I remember like Jerry
was like looking at her through the rearview mirror and
(22:23):
she was just so lovely and sweet and there was
just a massive dynamic shift and from that moment it
was just sparky. And you know, even now, it's quite
rare the five of us are in a room together.
You know, we don't get to do it as much
as we'd like to, but you it is electric. There
is something just about whatever it is between the five
(22:45):
of us, and it has been since day one that
it's just exciting.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You realize that you had this kind of ament in
between you're asserting your authority certainly with the group. And
it sounds like at that point Jerry was kind of
like she was a little bit older than you guys.
I mean you're all so young.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think Jerry's maybe a couple
of years older than me, and then Emmas a couple
of years younger than me, so we kind of, you know,
spend that time. And absolutely, you know, I think we
always looked up to Jerry in that she has a
lot more experience in life. You know, she'd been out there,
she'd worked, and she was exceptionally driven and you know felt,
(23:28):
you know, in many ways, was the voice of the
Space Girls, you know, like the mouthpiece of the Spice Girls.
And then of course that's where the interesting relationship comes
between her and Melby because Melby is also very outspoken.
They're very different, but then together, when they came together,
it was very powerful. So you know, we all absolutely
(23:49):
had our role to play within that. I think without
personalities like Melby and Jerry, I don't think we would
have got as far as we did.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And then the snowball really starts gathering momentum down the hill,
so you change your management, Yeah, you in fact, guy
to see I love this Simon Cowell.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
He's one of the only persons to ever say no
to the Spice Girls. I think it's like his biggest
regret of his life. When we look back and we
reminisce over these times, it's like Scooby Doo because it
was so many of our situations were so ridiculous. I mean,
if only we could make this movie, you know, of
those days and we were very frustrated with our management.
(24:36):
We talked to them into the idea of us doing
a showcase, which was us performing these shitty songs we
didn't even like, but we'd made up some choreography, and
we got studio space, We got writers and producers and
publishers in to see us, but we already knew we
were going to go, so we kind of got them
to pay for that, and then we went and did
(24:58):
our thing. And it was the first time we'd performed
in front of an audience, and we could feel the excitement,
you know, there was a bit of a buzz. People
were coming and going, and we were making the contact
with the people ourselves because we knew we were going
to walk away and do this independently until we found
about management, and that's what we did. So we did that.
(25:20):
We did a midnight flip from the house we've been
put up in. We stole the demo tapes and I mean,
this is the whole like, oh ridiculousness a bit, and
then we worked with the writers and the producers. A
lot of the people that appeared on the album Madam
Biff want to Be Spicy, Live, Viva Forever to become one,
(25:41):
guys called Absolute. Who do you think you are? Elliott Kennedy,
we went up to Sheffield. We worked with him. Say
You'll be There was a song we wrote with him.
So we were busy gathering all of these songs that
we were co writing that we were putting our own
ideas into. And in the meantime, while we were getting
all of these demos together, demo tapes I love it
(26:02):
that really depict the era right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So we had our.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Cassettes with us and that's when we started to management,
and I would say by the time we met the
manager that took us to the Stratosphere with everything Sam
and Fuller, we had about ninety percent of the album written.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So yeah, we kind of did what we set out
to do.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Coming up after this short break, Melsey shares with me,
when this started getting toxic, We'll be right back. It's
an interesting thing because you were gaining this momentum and
all of your powers at that point were combined and
(26:49):
your focus was very much external, like this is what
we need to do. This is where we have to go.
This is where we had to have to get to.
What room did that leave for your internal at that time? Like,
how how are you? I know you gave up the
double bed to Jerry and didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Even she had the double bed, I had the single.
You dive up the double bid without a.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, you know, I think that's very much how I've been.
I think all of my life, I've yeah. I mean
it's quite difficult to talk about yourself, isn't it. But
I'm a pacifist, you know, so I always want to
keep the peace and my role within that dynamic, you know,
(27:35):
especially because having such big personalities, there was fireworks sometimes,
so I think my safest space was to keep out
of the firing line. I was very driven, and again,
you know, talking about all of our strengths. Of course
with strengths we have weakness. So you know, personally, for me,
the places where I would shine and I would feel
(27:55):
comfortable and confident was in the studio writing music, singing, recording, performing,
whereas you know, other girls would feel differently in those environments.
So there was moments when you know, that was kind
of where I put all of my energy and then
when it came to other things potentially, you know, I
(28:17):
suppose socializing or being at home that would be maybe
where I was a lot more of an introvert. So yeah,
it was an interesting kind of observation of who you
are as a person and who you are in different environments.
And then that's all onto a microscope because obviously, you know,
once the media got involved, we couldn't really do anything
(28:40):
of that it being written about.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And then of course when you.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Came out as the Spice Girls, it must have been
such an extraordinary shift in the tectonic plates of your
life between what you'd all been working towards Data DA.
So you were on tour actually in Japan, was it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, So we released Obviously it was before the Internet
and at the time in the music industry you could
release things at different times in different places, and you
would do that because it will give you the opportunity
to promote in each territory. Obviously, now everything's happens at
the same time. You know, you can't drop a record
(29:21):
in the US, it's gone everywhere. So we were in Japan,
and in Japan was like really interesting. Obviously a country
none of us have been to. You know, we all
obviously came from different backgrounds, but all pretty much working class,
if not, you know, the posh one was a.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Bit more posh that much.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So, you know, we hadn't traveled and seen the world
in that way, but we're in Japan. It was a
little bit of a learning ground.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
We were out there releasing the album, doing the interviews,
doing the photo shoots, which was incredible and insane. And
that's when Wanta we went to number one in the UK,
which is kind of like, you know, the the ultimate
that's kind of what we were we were aiming for.
And yeah, and our opportunity to perform on top of
the pops rest in peace. But it was pretty crazy
(30:13):
to be in Tokyo. I think for the first couple
of weeks it was at number one.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And then so when you came back, what was the
climate like for you? Was that appetite already there was growing.
I don't imagine you can go number one and the
five of you being what you were and sleep back
into the country under the radar.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Well, it was really funny because I remember I think
we did a British TV it was called Surprise surprise
with a wonderful British broadcast AEP Silla Black, you know,
who was such a she was a national treasure and
it was a really big show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You know. Obviously the days were TV rained.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
There wasn't as many channels, you know, and the media
was so much smaller than it is now, and there
would have been millions of people watching. And we did
this TV on a Saturday night and it aired, and
I went out the next day shopping to like the
local shopping mark, and I thought everybody recognized me.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I was like, you know, thinking this is I'm a super.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Star, and we know one had a clue or cared
who I was. But then when we got back from Japan, yes,
everything changed because one of you was all over the radio.
You know, we'd had lots of television appearances that had
happened while we were away. So yeah, we definitely came
back to a very different world.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And then how was that like within your family?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So at this point everyone must have been so excited
for what was happening with our meal.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It's yeah, I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
At this point, it was so exciting, you know, people
couldn't believe it. I'd always talked about it. You know,
my friends and my family, they knew this is what
I'd always gone on about I was going to do,
and they knew about the band, and they'd met everyone
and they'd heard the music, but it was actually happening.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So everyone got caught up in the whirlwind.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And those you know, they early days, they're exciting and
they're heady, and of course, you know, with good always
comes a bit of bad. And then I think it
was difficult for people around us to deal with. I
suppose how you get treated differently, and how the media
pursued anybody who knew you, so you almost immediately feel
(32:31):
like your prey.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, and then of course.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You haven't honed those senses yet. People who have had
a degree of fame for some time often talk about
the sensors that you need when you meet someone new.
Do they want something, do they know me? Do they
like me for me?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Of course you were trust so raw and suddenly and
excitingly into this world.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I think one of the biggest things that kind of
really blows my mind when I look back, because obviously
young person, I was twenty two, and the media was
very different in those days, and a lot of the
questioning was very intrusive and personal, and you know, and
you're just talking about like fun kids magazines or whatever,
but they would ask you questions that you would feel
(33:17):
very uncomfortable answering.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
But like white or six or yeah, all of those
things like yeah, oh, you know, talk us through the
first time we had sex, or you know, you know,
who was the first person you're kissed, and things.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Like that, and like when you're in your early twenties,
I mean, your dad's going to read that, do you
know what I mean? It's like, you don't want to
talk about those things.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
But obviously different personalities within the band, but I'm a
people pleaser, so I'm thinking, well, I've got to answer
the questions that've been asked, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And we had no media training.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
In fact, I often believe media training was invented because
of the Spice Ghost, right, because we were a nightmare.
We just used to speak over each other all the time.
And you know, I mean, I'm quite proud of that
fact now. But we had to learn on the front line.
You know, there was nowhere for us to hide. We
had to make our own mistakes in the public you know,
(34:08):
public eye.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So at that point.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Was around then that you started to have issues with
eating or controlling your weight, or you'd had a couple
of things said to you that were really poisonous.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, well it was, yeah, it was before that. Really.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It was when we were with our initial management, you know,
before we were even in the public eye. And I
was just made, you know, very aware. I think he
because I was doing the backflip and he said, I'm
surprised you can do it with das like that, and
that just like really stuck with me. And I'd been
a dancer and I'd been in an environment where, you know,
(34:45):
and we talk about this so much more in culture
now and how things are not okay, but you know,
in the world of dance.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It was brutal. You know, you were really embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
You know, if you put on a little bit away
my holidays or something, you know, the teacher would tell
you in front of all of your classmates. We spent
all day looking in the mirror. But I it never
affected me negative in that way. I had quite a
healthy attitude towards food and towards exercise and all of
those things. But there was just something about that comment
(35:18):
at that time with what I wanted to achieve. It
just kind of was like a catalyst in me, and
I began to be very restrictive over what I was eating,
and I became quite obsessive about exercising. And it was
this thing of like, I have to be perfect to
achieve my dream. There's a way I have to look.
(35:41):
There's a way I have to behave, there's a way
I have to be and that there's no other ways because.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
You work hard, so were you like I can work
hard at this as well.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
It's your life, it's your destiny, it's your path. There's
no option, So whatever it takes, that's what you will do.
And that in a toxic environment, that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And when did it start to become.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
To it kind of creeps in, you know, And it's
sometimes it's a little comments. This can happen in any workplace,
in any relationship, in a family environment. Do you know
what I mean that you talked about internalizing things? You know,
somebody can say something and people don't realize the power
of their words, you know. So it's just like all
(36:30):
these little things chipping away and manager comments on your thighs,
a newspaper calls you ugly, you know, talentless, and you
see a bad paparazzi shot of yourself and so just
all of these things that is chipping chipping away, and
you know, whatever's going on for you inside, whatever your
triggers are, that can send you off on a path
(36:53):
which can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
And also, I imagine because you were there was this
stratospheric success happening number one in thirty seven countries, unheard of,
and you're touring and the world is mad about you
and your merched everywhere and.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Girls are loving you.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You've literally changed the lives of girls. But because of
all that external did the five of you really turn
to each other more because no one else can really
understand what's going on?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean that is the saving
grace of being in a band. And I talk about
this a lot. There's no one else on the planet.
There's five people who know what it's like to be
a spice girl, and even the five of us have
very different experiences of the same thing, you know, but
we knew it was so important for us to be
(37:52):
there for each other. Sometimes that was a toxic environment,
you know. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves
and each other, but fundamentally we have each other's back,
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
To this day, if.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Someone messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have
to deal with the other four, you know, and to
have that is pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
This is not the end of my conversation with Melanie Chisholm.
Follow us over to part two to hear mel talk
about the isolation that came with being a Spice Girl,
how motherhood has changed her, what girl power means to
her today, and of course, whether or not we should
expect a reunion.
You're listening to a MoMA Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters
that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
That is the saving grace of being in a band.
There's no one else on the planet. There's five people
who know what it's like to be a Spice Girl,
and even the five of us have very different experiences
of the same thing. But we knew it was so
important for us to be there for each other. Sometimes
that was a toxic environment. We put a lot of
(00:40):
pressure on ourselves and each other, but fundamentally we have
each other's back, you know. To this day, if someone
messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have to
deal with the other four, you know, and to have
that is pretty incredible.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Hi, I'm kateline Brook. Welcome to No Filter Ah.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
The nineties a time of double denim, crimped hair, the
Rachel haircut, and the unstoppable rise of girl bands. And
one name you would remember is Melanie chishlm or maybe
better known as Melsey or the most known as Sporty Spice.
(01:29):
At just twenty years old, a flyer led her to
audition for a girl group, and after countless rounds of auditions.
She would go on to join Ginger, Baby, Scary and
Posh to complete the Spice Girls, a group that would
go on to define a generation. In this conversation, I
had the privilege of sitting down with Melsey as she
(01:51):
pulled back the curtain on an industry that was evolving
just as quickly as she was. While the Spice Girls
were spreading the message of girl power to the world,
behind the scenes, she was struggling to find her own identity.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Among the incredible highs.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Bonding with the women she calls sisters for life, there
were also deeply challenging moments. The pressure of fame took
a toll, with scars that wouldn't fully reveal themselves until
years after the band had broken up. But Mel's story
isn't just about the struggles. She spent years unpacking that
(02:30):
time in her life, making sense of the highs and lows,
and coming to a place of real understanding. And now
she looks back on her Spy Sgirl's days with a
mix of gratitude and honesty, proud of what they achieved,
but also clear eyed about the challenges that came with it.
(02:50):
We talk about life after the spyegirls, how the message
of girl power still lives on today, and whether her
daughter might ever want to follow in her footsteps. Get ready,
This conversation is about to spice up your life litive
concept happiness. But I'm very happy to see you, and
(03:15):
our listeners on No Filter will be so happy to
welcome you, Melanie Chisholm to No Filter. Well, thank you
very much for having me. And of course I could
also call you mil c in relation to another male me,
or I could call you sporty. You could all of
(03:37):
the above. And who do you think of yourself as? Oh,
that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
I think I had a bit of a hard time
with Melcy for a while because that's how I was
often referred to in the tabloids, so that sometimes had
a bit of a negative, you know vibe. I'm Melanie,
funnily enough to most people now and not many people
call me male but my old school friends or my mum.
(04:05):
And I'm always sporty. Yes, you're always sporty.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
And how interesting to find out that you really properly
always were sporty and that that wasn't an affectation for
the Spice girls.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Yeah, I think That's probably one of the biggest misconceptions
about the Space Girls, you know, because people often in
interviews will ask us, you know, when, how did you
feel about your name and having to live up to
this thing, and it's like, well, we were given the names.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
It was a little bit of a joke.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
It was in a magazine in the UK, and it
was just a bit of a throwaway article, but they
just stuck and the journalists that came up with the names,
he'd done it, whether it was on our appearance or
on our personality, and we loved it. And we actually
now laugh at ourselves and each other because we are
so those people know.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
There's there's no getting away from it.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
We've almost like become you know when you get older
sometimes and people become more of who they are. Yes, annoying,
people get more annoying.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You become more sick in the shape of yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yeah, And I think that's what the Spice Girls have done.
And so I've never not wanted to be sporty, and
I think now more than ever, I celebrate it.
Speaker 1 (05:18):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:18):
It was interesting because the guy you were talking about
that was the editor of the what was the Top
of the Pops Meadage exactly, actual genius that he took
all of you. They took the five of you at
that time. And were you performing then or were you
still in that hiddy period where you were building up
(05:39):
to the launch of your album?
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Was literally yet we were meeting editors and record companies
and so it was like it was the big build
up before the first single was released.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Incredible because I have to say he nailed you all
in a nice way.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
He did.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Yeah, well, yeah, different, he'd be barking up. But so
Peter Lorraine is the guy. We should give him a
name Chase. Actually, he's a very successful music manager now
and he looks after some great artists in the UK.
He's just actually got a great award, a music Award
for all of his services to music. So obviously he
(06:20):
has always had that passion for music and just a
really good air and day.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, going back to the formation of the Spice Girls,
it was such a it feels like it encompassed well
because it goes through it all today. Really, I guess
that's why that it's left such a huge footprint culturally
on music, on fashion, on really on gender studies as well.
(06:51):
But you grew up in a really in a working
class home, you had a loving family, you had the
shock of a divorce in the family, or when your
mum left your dad. So tell me about that little
girl and watch she did and what she felt that
(07:14):
meant that, like, not even two decades laid that she
was confident enough to front one of the biggest outfits
in the world.
Speaker 3 (07:22):
Yeah, it's so interesting, isn't it looking back to your childhood,
because obviously it's all you know.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
You know, your normality is normal.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
But with hindsight, you know, I think about a lot
of my traits, and you know, I do believe from
those experiences I have become very determined. I really wanted
to succeed. I feel very lucky in finding my passion
early in life. I've always loved performing. My mum's also
(07:53):
a singer, so I'd looked up to her. I kind
of idolized her in a way. But because my mum
and dad weren't together, they both went on to remarry
and have families. I'm the only child of their relationship.
I sometimes felt alone in the world, so that made
me feel quite isolated, and I almost felt like I
(08:13):
had to fight for my place in this world, and
you know that's for good and for bad, but I
think it's definitely one of the factors that gave me
the drive that I have to continue to work in
music and to have had the tenacity to get there
in the first place.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
It's interesting because one of the themes that kind of
underpins your whole story and to this day is that
working drive. You're such a hard worker, you come from
a family of hard workers, and yet when you're thrown
into well something it didn't exist at the time, but
(08:55):
we know in retrospect came to be such an amazing
thing where there is the option of not working and
embracing this life in which all the riches in the
world are thrust at you with some downsides as well.
How did you navigate that part of us?
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
I think we all navigated the experience in slightly different ways.
And I think again probably from my background, you know,
being working class from the north of England and my
dad's side of the family being Irish Catholic, so there
was a lot of guilt in that community. Yeah, and
(09:35):
also a bit of like don't get above your station,
you know. So even though I had become successful, there
was always guilt in that I came from very little financially,
so when I was earning good money, it was like
I had to justify that. I had to justify that
to myself, you know, to my family. So I couldn't
rest on my laurels. I had to be the absolute
(09:57):
best I could possibly be, to be worthy of all
of these incredible things that were happening to me. And
that can be exhausting, you know, that can be a
huge burden. And it took a long time for me
to acknowledge and recognize that. And you know, it's I
think it's kind of part of your DNA, so it
never goes away, but I think it's it's important before you,
(10:19):
you know, drive yourself into an early grave by working
yourself to death, that you are aware if that's how
you are driven.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
You were always primarily a dancer, also interested in singing,
so you had the showbies. You had the sole roots
from your mom. You had that instinct. So the end
game for people in showbies is to achieve some degree
of success. You know, that's what we all want, but
that can also destroy us. Do you think the guilt
(10:53):
of success is a part of it? Is like the
shadow the shadow behind the mirror.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
I think it has been for a period of my life.
And as I've got older and I you know, I've
had lots of issues, and like lots of people, you know,
as we grow up and we figure out who we are,
I had lots of things that I had to acknowledge
and never come. I've had lots of talking therapy, and
(11:21):
as I'm older now, I definitely have left that behind.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
You know.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I work hard, and I deserve the good things that
happen to me. It's not all good. Sometimes shit comes
my way and I will deal with that too. But
I think I finally am very proud of myself and
my achievements, and that's okay. You know, it sounds ridiculous,
doesn't it. I think it's such a British thing as well,
(11:49):
and you know, I'm getting to know Australian and Australians more,
but I think we're quite similar as cultures. And I
don't think it's cool to think you're the Besnys or
behave like that, you know, I think it is. It's
definitely a very British thing. But now I think it's
important that we do acknowledge our success.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
I'm being worthy of it.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Well, it's an interesting thing because I think you have
to have enough ego to be able to stand up
and present yourself in your case to the world.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
But if you have too much ego, it will destroy you. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Absolutely, And you always seem to have come from this
place of I'm not going to say self deprecating, but
you're very humble about your achievements. Like even when I
was reading your book, you never really talk about how
naturally talented you were, because you must have been, because
even as a child you were winning dance competitions. You
(12:47):
always focus on how hard you worked. So interesting, isn't it?
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And yet when that moment came, and I'd love you
to tell me about this, when you went off with
your girlfriend to go to the cruise audition where you're like,
I need work, I'll audition to be a cruise dancer.
There was a guy handing out flyers. This was in
nineteen ninety four. It was yeah, and what did the
(13:18):
flyers say?
Speaker 3 (13:19):
So it said something along the lines of are you
eighteen to twenty four?
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Can you dance? Sing? Are you street wise?
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I mean it goes on, but basically it was an
audition for a girl band. So that was it. That
was the thing I wanted to do. I didn't want
to be dancing on cruises.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Yeah, and you knew when you looked at that piece
of paper, you knew with all certainty that it meant something.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
It was the first time I'd ever seen a flyer
or an ad for an audition like that. And you know,
being a dancer, I was auditioning for theater performances and
you know, lots of different things. But yeah, I'd never
had something which was for the music industry, and that
was really what I wanted to do. I just knew
it was really difficult to get there. So when I
(14:17):
saw that, that's when I you know, it's so weird
because I literally, you know, vividly remember the setting and
the dance studio is still there in London. Actually, it's
just across the road from Selfridges on Oxford Street, and
I remember turning to her. She was on my right,
and I just went, that's it. That's what I'm going
to do. And that went on eventually to become the
Spice guest. And so you go to this audition. How
(14:39):
many girls are they who can sing and dance? Who
believe themselves to be straight smart. I think there was
a few hundred. You know, it wasn't in its thousands,
it was in its hundreds. But yeah, and it was
pretty brutal. You know, working in entertainment, as you will
well know, you know, we have a lot of disappointments
and we have to have quite a thick skin from
(15:01):
the get go. You know, you're probably going to get
told no more than you're going to get told yeah,
you know, or come back, we want to see you again,
and you're prepared for that. Yeah, but this particular time,
I did get asked to come back and we just
had to dance. I mean it was you know, it
was very much on the way you looked initially and
the way that you moved, and then you were asked
to come back and sing, and.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Then how did you look at that time?
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Like what was your look?
Speaker 3 (15:25):
My little luck you can find it online somewhere. So
they were filming us. I had I think I had
a little bob it was pre Posh's bob. And I
think I had like a little bit of a red,
like a henna color my hair, and yeah, I had
like a lilac little cropped terrible Tark. I had no
(15:46):
money at the time, bless me. Yeah, little pair of jeans,
probably some little trainers, but yeah, it was my best outfit.
It's the best sec of muster up on that particular day.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And speaking of the posh Bob, you actually saw her
in the audition, so she was one of the hundreds
of girls.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
She was one of the girls.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So on that day, I think myself, Melby and Victoria
were there and danced and sung for the management team.
But it was later on because Jerry I think she
missed that day but came later down the line. And
then Emma was the missing piece of the jigsaw who
didn't come in to the band for a couple of
months later.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
And because initially and I didn't know this, so you.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
Were called touch ah that was yeah, that was kind
of our work in progress.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Nowt Yeah, and then you missed getting cast originally because
of your tonsils.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
Yes, I had horrific tonselitis as a kid, and yeah,
and you know, being a student, living in not the
best conditions and being in dirty dance studios all the time,
I was just yeah, getting it every five minutes, and
I just happened to be sick when the recall audition
was and my mum begged them to give me an
(17:03):
opportunity to get better and come back and see them,
but they wouldn't have it. But luckily for me, not
so much to the other person, one of the girls
they'd cast it, they didn't feel like it worked out,
so they asked me to come along and then that
was it.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I was in.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Melsey has much more to share about her time in
the Spice Girls, from building momentum to stratospheric fame and
just who turned down signing the pop group don't go anywhere.
You know those moments and they're very rare in my
life anyway. You know, where you know something with a certainty,
(17:45):
it's almost like a premonition that's a strong as certainty
in that gap between when you didn't get in the
girl group that you'd been so certain when you saw
the flyer, in that intervening period until the phone rang
and they said, guess what, one of the girls is
(18:06):
not right?
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Will you come back in? Yeah? How was that period?
What were you doing then?
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Were you three thinking I should have done the cruise
audition or no?
Speaker 3 (18:16):
Because I was still adamant that that wasn't the direction
I wanted to go in. And I think those moments
in your life are really hard, and it's really hard
to kind of trust your instinct at those times, isn't it,
Because it's like, oh, I was so certain this was
the one, and as well because I've been ill, so
I think I was just like, well, I just got
(18:36):
to get myself better. And I think, you know, being
young and wanting to work in entertainment, I would just
had that.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
You know, you just have to get on with it.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
You can't let it get you down because there's always
another audition, there's always another opportunity. If you let those
things get to you, you'd never get anywhere.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
So then you found yourself cast and at that statue
was another member of the band touch Yes, Yes, a
girl called Michelle, and then she eventually got got subbed out.
When you were willing to living in a house together
and rehearsing these routines and writing music together then or.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, so well at the time, so it's like it's
quite complicated story, but yes, so there was five of us,
so for you know, Jerry, Victoria, myself and the other
male and a girl call Michelle, and basically the management
put us together. They put us in a little house,
which is brilliant because it was a really great way
to get to know each other.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
But they were giving.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Us songs that are being written by other people, and
the songs were pretty meh and they've mostly been written
by middle aged men, so as well, now the why, Yeah,
that's the way it was the mid nineties in the UK,
and as much as we know appreciated having this, you know,
this support and opportunity. We were having vocal coaching, we
(20:05):
were working on choreography. A few of us were dancers,
so we were helping work through those things.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
But yeah, this song thing was.
Speaker 3 (20:12):
An issue because you know, you know the girls, right,
we're pretty feisty girls.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
We've got things to say.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
We were having experiences as young women in Britain growing
up in the nineties, so singing these songs about love
written by older men just.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Weren't cutting it for us. So that was probably the.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
First kind of issue that we had with our first
management because we were like, we just we don't connect
with these songs, you know what I mean. Shit, So
we started, you know, in our own little way. None
of us, I mean, I didn't study music to any degree.
You know, none of us played instruments that proficiently, so
(20:51):
we were just singing along, making up songs, and it
was just more about the feeling and what we wanted
to say at that point.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know what, it kind of reminded me of, which
will sound strange, but you know how some Mormons have
a lot of wives, and I read an article once
about the reason.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
That the more have a lot of wives.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Is what happens is, first of all, there's a hot
young girl that comes in and the Mormon's all like, oh, yes,
yes she's and she's like, I love you, Hank or whatever, and.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Then the women form a bond with each other.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
It's kind of reminds me of what happened with you
girls where you started to really assert yourselves. Michelle has
left at this point, and then you get Emma on board, baby,
and something happens in which the sum of the whole
(21:44):
becomes so much bigger than the sum of the parts,
and the sum of the parts is already pretty good.
What was that feeling and when was the moment, if
there was one that you went, oh there, something's happening.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
It was instant. As soon as you Matt Emmett.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
It was really strange because that's another really vivid memory
I have in my mind, remember being in Jerry's car.
She had a little fear, who know, bashed bits, and yeah,
she would drive us everywhere. It's amazing that we're also
living to tell the tale. And we picked up Emma
at the train station and yeah, I remember like Jerry
was like looking at her through the rearview mirror and
(22:23):
she was just so lovely and sweet and there was
just a massive dynamic shift and from that moment it
was just sparky. And you know, even now, it's quite
rare the five of us are in a room together.
You know, we don't get to do it as much
as we'd like to, but you it is electric. There
is something just about whatever it is between the five
(22:45):
of us, and it has been since day one that
it's just exciting.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
You realize that you had this kind of ament in
between you're asserting your authority certainly with the group. And
it sounds like at that point Jerry was kind of
like she was a little bit older than you guys.
I mean you're all so young.
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I think Jerry's maybe a couple
of years older than me, and then Emmas a couple
of years younger than me, so we kind of, you know,
spend that time. And absolutely, you know, I think we
always looked up to Jerry in that she has a
lot more experience in life. You know, she'd been out there,
she'd worked, and she was exceptionally driven and you know felt,
(23:28):
you know, in many ways, was the voice of the
Space Girls, you know, like the mouthpiece of the Spice Girls.
And then of course that's where the interesting relationship comes
between her and Melby because Melby is also very outspoken.
They're very different, but then together, when they came together,
it was very powerful. So you know, we all absolutely
(23:49):
had our role to play within that. I think without
personalities like Melby and Jerry, I don't think we would
have got as far as we did.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
And then the snowball really starts gathering momentum down the hill,
so you change your management, Yeah, you in fact, guy
to see I love this Simon Cowell.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
He's one of the only persons to ever say no
to the Spice Girls. I think it's like his biggest
regret of his life. When we look back and we
reminisce over these times, it's like Scooby Doo because it
was so many of our situations were so ridiculous. I mean,
if only we could make this movie, you know, of
those days and we were very frustrated with our management.
(24:36):
We talked to them into the idea of us doing
a showcase, which was us performing these shitty songs we
didn't even like, but we'd made up some choreography, and
we got studio space, We got writers and producers and
publishers in to see us, but we already knew we
were going to go, so we kind of got them
to pay for that, and then we went and did
(24:58):
our thing. And it was the first time we'd performed
in front of an audience, and we could feel the excitement,
you know, there was a bit of a buzz. People
were coming and going, and we were making the contact
with the people ourselves because we knew we were going
to walk away and do this independently until we found
about management, and that's what we did. So we did that.
(25:20):
We did a midnight flip from the house we've been
put up in. We stole the demo tapes and I mean,
this is the whole like, oh ridiculousness a bit, and
then we worked with the writers and the producers. A
lot of the people that appeared on the album Madam
Biff want to Be Spicy, Live, Viva Forever to become one,
(25:41):
guys called Absolute. Who do you think you are? Elliott Kennedy,
we went up to Sheffield. We worked with him. Say
You'll be There was a song we wrote with him.
So we were busy gathering all of these songs that
we were co writing that we were putting our own
ideas into. And in the meantime, while we were getting
all of these demos together, demo tapes I love it
(26:02):
that really depict the era right.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
So we had our.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Cassettes with us and that's when we started to management,
and I would say by the time we met the
manager that took us to the Stratosphere with everything Sam
and Fuller, we had about ninety percent of the album written.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
So yeah, we kind of did what we set out
to do.
Speaker 2 (26:27):
Coming up after this short break, Melsey shares with me,
when this started getting toxic, We'll be right back. It's
an interesting thing because you were gaining this momentum and
all of your powers at that point were combined and
(26:49):
your focus was very much external, like this is what
we need to do. This is where we have to go.
This is where we had to have to get to.
What room did that leave for your internal at that time? Like,
how how are you? I know you gave up the
double bed to Jerry and didn't.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Even she had the double bed, I had the single.
You dive up the double bid without a.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
Yeah, you know, I think that's very much how I've been.
I think all of my life, I've yeah. I mean
it's quite difficult to talk about yourself, isn't it. But
I'm a pacifist, you know, so I always want to
keep the peace and my role within that dynamic, you know,
(27:35):
especially because having such big personalities, there was fireworks sometimes,
so I think my safest space was to keep out
of the firing line. I was very driven, and again,
you know, talking about all of our strengths. Of course
with strengths we have weakness. So you know, personally, for me,
the places where I would shine and I would feel
(27:55):
comfortable and confident was in the studio writing music, singing, recording, performing,
whereas you know, other girls would feel differently in those environments.
So there was moments when you know, that was kind
of where I put all of my energy and then
when it came to other things potentially, you know, I
(28:17):
suppose socializing or being at home that would be maybe
where I was a lot more of an introvert. So yeah,
it was an interesting kind of observation of who you
are as a person and who you are in different environments.
And then that's all onto a microscope because obviously, you know,
once the media got involved, we couldn't really do anything
(28:40):
of that it being written about.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
And then of course when you.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
Came out as the Spice Girls, it must have been
such an extraordinary shift in the tectonic plates of your
life between what you'd all been working towards Data DA.
So you were on tour actually in Japan, was it.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, So we released Obviously it was before the Internet
and at the time in the music industry you could
release things at different times in different places, and you
would do that because it will give you the opportunity
to promote in each territory. Obviously, now everything's happens at
the same time. You know, you can't drop a record
(29:21):
in the US, it's gone everywhere. So we were in Japan,
and in Japan was like really interesting. Obviously a country
none of us have been to. You know, we all
obviously came from different backgrounds, but all pretty much working class,
if not, you know, the posh one was a.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
Bit more posh that much.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
So, you know, we hadn't traveled and seen the world
in that way, but we're in Japan. It was a
little bit of a learning ground.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
You know.
Speaker 3 (29:48):
We were out there releasing the album, doing the interviews,
doing the photo shoots, which was incredible and insane. And
that's when Wanta we went to number one in the UK,
which is kind of like, you know, the the ultimate
that's kind of what we were we were aiming for.
And yeah, and our opportunity to perform on top of
the pops rest in peace. But it was pretty crazy
(30:13):
to be in Tokyo. I think for the first couple
of weeks it was at number one.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
And then so when you came back, what was the
climate like for you? Was that appetite already there was growing.
I don't imagine you can go number one and the
five of you being what you were and sleep back
into the country under the radar.
Speaker 3 (30:37):
Well, it was really funny because I remember I think
we did a British TV it was called Surprise surprise
with a wonderful British broadcast AEP Silla Black, you know,
who was such a she was a national treasure and
it was a really big show.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
You know. Obviously the days were TV rained.
Speaker 3 (30:55):
There wasn't as many channels, you know, and the media
was so much smaller than it is now, and there
would have been millions of people watching. And we did
this TV on a Saturday night and it aired, and
I went out the next day shopping to like the
local shopping mark, and I thought everybody recognized me.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
I was like, you know, thinking this is I'm a super.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
Star, and we know one had a clue or cared
who I was. But then when we got back from Japan, yes,
everything changed because one of you was all over the radio.
You know, we'd had lots of television appearances that had
happened while we were away. So yeah, we definitely came
back to a very different world.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
And then how was that like within your family?
Speaker 2 (31:37):
So at this point everyone must have been so excited
for what was happening with our meal.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
It's yeah, I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3 (31:47):
At this point, it was so exciting, you know, people
couldn't believe it. I'd always talked about it. You know,
my friends and my family, they knew this is what
I'd always gone on about I was going to do,
and they knew about the band, and they'd met everyone
and they'd heard the music, but it was actually happening.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
So everyone got caught up in the whirlwind.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
And those you know, they early days, they're exciting and
they're heady, and of course, you know, with good always
comes a bit of bad. And then I think it
was difficult for people around us to deal with. I
suppose how you get treated differently, and how the media
pursued anybody who knew you, so you almost immediately feel
(32:31):
like your prey.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, and then of course.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
You haven't honed those senses yet. People who have had
a degree of fame for some time often talk about
the sensors that you need when you meet someone new.
Do they want something, do they know me? Do they
like me for me?
Speaker 1 (32:50):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Of course you were trust so raw and suddenly and
excitingly into this world.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:55):
I think one of the biggest things that kind of
really blows my mind when I look back, because obviously
young person, I was twenty two, and the media was
very different in those days, and a lot of the
questioning was very intrusive and personal, and you know, and
you're just talking about like fun kids magazines or whatever,
but they would ask you questions that you would feel
(33:17):
very uncomfortable answering.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
But like white or six or yeah, all of those
things like yeah, oh, you know, talk us through the
first time we had sex, or you know, you know,
who was the first person you're kissed, and things.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
Like that, and like when you're in your early twenties,
I mean, your dad's going to read that, do you
know what I mean? It's like, you don't want to
talk about those things.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
But obviously different personalities within the band, but I'm a
people pleaser, so I'm thinking, well, I've got to answer
the questions that've been asked, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:45):
And we had no media training.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
In fact, I often believe media training was invented because
of the Spice Ghost, right, because we were a nightmare.
We just used to speak over each other all the time.
And you know, I mean, I'm quite proud of that
fact now. But we had to learn on the front line.
You know, there was nowhere for us to hide. We
had to make our own mistakes in the public you know,
(34:08):
public eye.
Speaker 1 (34:09):
So at that point.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Was around then that you started to have issues with
eating or controlling your weight, or you'd had a couple
of things said to you that were really poisonous.
Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, well it was, yeah, it was before that. Really.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
It was when we were with our initial management, you know,
before we were even in the public eye. And I
was just made, you know, very aware. I think he
because I was doing the backflip and he said, I'm
surprised you can do it with das like that, and
that just like really stuck with me. And I'd been
a dancer and I'd been in an environment where, you know,
(34:45):
and we talk about this so much more in culture
now and how things are not okay, but you know,
in the world of dance.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
It was brutal. You know, you were really embarrassed.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
You know, if you put on a little bit away
my holidays or something, you know, the teacher would tell
you in front of all of your classmates. We spent
all day looking in the mirror. But I it never
affected me negative in that way. I had quite a
healthy attitude towards food and towards exercise and all of
those things. But there was just something about that comment
(35:18):
at that time with what I wanted to achieve. It
just kind of was like a catalyst in me, and
I began to be very restrictive over what I was eating,
and I became quite obsessive about exercising. And it was
this thing of like, I have to be perfect to
achieve my dream. There's a way I have to look.
(35:41):
There's a way I have to behave, there's a way
I have to be and that there's no other ways because.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
You work hard, so were you like I can work
hard at this as well.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
It's your life, it's your destiny, it's your path. There's
no option, So whatever it takes, that's what you will do.
And that in a toxic environment, that's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
And when did it start to become.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
To it kind of creeps in, you know, And it's
sometimes it's a little comments. This can happen in any workplace,
in any relationship, in a family environment. Do you know
what I mean that you talked about internalizing things? You know,
somebody can say something and people don't realize the power
of their words, you know. So it's just like all
(36:30):
these little things chipping away and manager comments on your thighs,
a newspaper calls you ugly, you know, talentless, and you
see a bad paparazzi shot of yourself and so just
all of these things that is chipping chipping away, and
you know, whatever's going on for you inside, whatever your
triggers are, that can send you off on a path
(36:53):
which can be really hard.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
And also, I imagine because you were there was this
stratospheric success happening number one in thirty seven countries, unheard of,
and you're touring and the world is mad about you
and your merched everywhere and.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
Girls are loving you.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
You've literally changed the lives of girls. But because of
all that external did the five of you really turn
to each other more because no one else can really
understand what's going on?
Speaker 3 (37:30):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I mean that is the saving
grace of being in a band. And I talk about
this a lot. There's no one else on the planet.
There's five people who know what it's like to be
a spice girl, and even the five of us have
very different experiences of the same thing, you know, but
we knew it was so important for us to be
(37:52):
there for each other. Sometimes that was a toxic environment,
you know. We put a lot of pressure on ourselves
and each other, but fundamentally we have each other's back,
you know.
Speaker 1 (38:03):
To this day, if.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Someone messes with one of the Spice Girls, you have
to deal with the other four, you know, and to
have that is pretty incredible.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
This is not the end of my conversation with Melanie Chisholm.
Follow us over to part two to hear mel talk
about the isolation that came with being a Spice Girl,
how motherhood has changed her, what girl power means to
her today, and of course, whether or not we should
expect a reunion.
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