April 11, 2025 • 55 mins
This is an episode about an epic friendship between two women.
It transcends marriages, divorce, miscarriage and sex and ends in the most poignant, tragic, beautiful way.
When Molly was 41, she was given a life-changing diagnosis. And instead of living out the life she'd built with her husband, she left their 15-year marriage to go and have hot sex with strangers. Dozens of them.
And her friend Nikki... what was she to do? Judge her? Encourage her? Support her?
Well, they started a podcast together, called Dying For Sex.
In this episode, Mia Freedman sits down with Nikki Boyer, actress and podcast host, to discuss her lifelong friendship with Molly, some hilarious sex stories and what happens when you lose your best friend.
For everything Molly and Nikki, head to https://dyingforsexpodcast.com/
You can follow Nikki on Instagram here - https://www.instagram.com/nikkiboyer/?hl=en.
Want to see those pics of Molly Nikki and Mia were talking about? Go to https://www.instagram.com/dying4sex/?hl=en
GET IN TOUCH:
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Need more lols, info and inspo in your ears? Find more Mamamia podcasts here... https://www.mamamia.com.au/podcasts/
Check out our No Filter YouTube channel here... https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvoiVNEFfHiJl8nC4NepRNw?view_as=subscriber
CREDITS:
Host: Mia Freedman . You can find Mia on Instagram here and get her newsletter here.
With thanks to our guest: Nikki Boyer
Producer: Leah Porges
Executive Producer: Elissa Ratliff
Become a Mamamia subscriber: https://www.mamamia.com.au/subscribe
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Miya acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Grace Ruey, the producer of No Filter, and I'm
jumping into your feed to bring you a very special
episode from our archives. You might have seen the brand
new TV series Dying for Sex. It's based on a
true story, a story of two best friends, Molly and Nicky.
After Molly is diagnosed with terminal cancer, she decides to
reclaim her sexuality before she dies. All of this with
(00:41):
her friend Nicki by her side, supporting her whilst on
their journey. The two made a hit podcast called Dying
for Sex and now it's a TV show.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
But back in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Twenty twenty, Mia Friedman sat down with the real Nicky
to talk about her incredible friendship with Molly, their wild adventures.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And the heartbreak of losing a friend.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We hope you enjoy this very special episode of No
Filter from our archives.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
This is an episode about the epic friendship between two women,
one that transcends marriages and divorce and miscarriage and sex
so much sex, and ends in the most poignant, tragic
and beautiful way.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Hi, Hi, How are you, my love?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm so good?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, good, we talk to you.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
It's so nice to see you. Okay, I don't have
to do anything. I'm not used to not being in charge.
I'm like, I just tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's a podcast host off. It starts when your best friend,
your person, gets a life changing diagnosis. She's forty one
and she's married, but instead of living out the life
that she's built, she decides to leave her fifteen year
marriage so she can go and have hot and sometimes
kinky sex with strangers, dozens and dozens of them. What
(02:00):
do you do? Do you judge her, encourage her? Do
you support her? Or do you distance yourself? Maybe you
help her pick up guys. Well, my guest today you
make a hit podcast with her. So his hand was
there and I was like, I know that.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Let it's going.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I know where it's going, and you were okay
with it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I was okay with it and like but I but
at one point I was like, I need to acknowledge
that I know that he knows that, I know that
we all know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Could I go?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And I sounded like a prepubson boy. I was like, no,
I'm not expecting this, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I don't want anymore from Mama Maya. I'm mea Friedman
and you're listening to No Filter, a weekly interview podcast
with people who tell their stories very candidly and who
aren't afraid to be all kinds of vulnerable. Today, I'm
speaking to someone who really is the epitome of candid
and vulnerable in our conversation. Her name is Nicky Boyer.
(02:55):
She's an actress, and she is the voice and the
host of the cult podcast Dying for Sex. It's a
six part series that follows the story of Molly, who
is Nicky's best friend, who was dealing with that age
old question what do you do with the time that
you have left? Nicki and Molly's friendship celebrates life from
(03:17):
Hilarious tex Stories.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Dates at six in the morning, dates at two in
the morning, dates at nine am, at noon, one at
six pm.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I mean, she's dealing with the loss of your person.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I miss her in ways that I didn't even think
were possible.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
He is my beautiful conversation with Nicky Boyer. NICKI, how
did you and Molly mate?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Molly and I met? Oh gosh, twenty something years ago
in an acting class in Los Angeles, and we met
in a dirty little studio. I don't want to say dirty,
it was kind of dirty. It was dark, and you
know that smell that a theater has where it hasn't
probably really properly been cleaned in quite a long time,
but it's got that musty smell to it. And so
(04:02):
we met in a studio for an acting class that
was on Melrose Avenue, which is where everybody wanted to
go to acting class. So that's where we met, in
a studio, dark, dark way.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Wait where were you both that in your lives when
you met? And did you hit it off straight away
or was it like a slow burn friendship?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
She hated me when she met me. She couldn't stand me.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I thought she was sweet and kind and who's that
girl that she She looked at me like, who's that
girl seeking all the attention in the room, And I'm like,
of course that's me. I had just moved to La
of course. I literally parked my car, got here and
signed up for an acting class because I was such
an overzealous type a and Mollie had I think it'd
been here for maybe a year and decided to embark
(04:45):
on an acting class and see what that did for her.
And it was a slow burn. We you know, I
have to say, I have to thank the teacher that
paired us up in a scene. You know, scene study
and acting class that give you a scene and you
go work on it and you bring it back. And
if that woman, Heidi, wouldn't have paired Molly and myself
up in the scene, I don't know if I'd be
telling the story today because we wouldn't have naturally gravitated
(05:08):
to each other. Scene sort of forced us into working together, communicating.
And then I'll never forget the moment I realized that
we were kind of cut from the same cloth, as
we had a little inside joke going on, and it
went on and on to the point where it was
obnoxious and annoying, and I was like, oh, she's my people,
and so that's how it came about.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Did you both want to be actors?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Then? Yeah, we both did. She got over it very quickly.
I think after like the seventh or eighth class, she
was like, Okay, that's enough for me. I got bit
by the bug and I still to this day, I
still do acting.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
How old were you both At the time, I.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Was twenty two and she was twenty three. I think,
so at the time I felt very well seasoned and
smart and ready. And I look back and I'm like
we were infants, Like our brains weren't even fully developed yet.
But we were. Yeah, we were in our very early
twenties and very wide eyed and ready for whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And you know how when you made someone and there's
that platonic chemistry and there's banter, and you sort of
go in dates in terms of, you know, do you
want to grab a drink or do you want to
have dinner? How long did it take your friendship to
develop until you were kind of each other's person?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Ooh god, that's a great question. I would say not long.
So after we did that scene together and I got
to sort of see where she lived, and she saw
where I lived, she very quickly became a staple in
my life. I was working at the time. I was
waiting tables and trying to find you go to auditions,
and I was a very aggressive, like I got to
get things done. Mollie was a little more chill and relaxed, right,
(06:45):
So she had a lot of free time. So she'd
said let's have lunch. And we'd have lunch and she'd say, well,
then can I come to your audition with you? And
she'd ride in the car with me and we'd go
to the audition and she'd say, well, do you want
to have coffee after? And I'd be like, this is amazing.
I've got I've got like a partner with me in
my car all day that's willing to go run errands.
And she just wanted companionship and to be with me
(07:05):
and I had a lot going on, so she was
like this perfect fit. So very quickly became each other's
person and started to have a shorthand and an understanding.
And she was a digger. She'd asked questions and she
wanted to know you the dirty, the ugly, the messy
parts as well as the beautiful parts. And that's that
was really interesting for me as one of my first
friendships in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Was she married then?
Speaker 4 (07:28):
No, she was not. She was single. She was dating
a couple of dudes. I was dating a couple of dudes,
and I think I had just about met my ex husband.
So she's been with me during boyfriends, girlfriends, ex husbands,
new boyfriends, step kid, like we've been in it for
a while together. We had been. I still talk about
(07:50):
her like she's still here, you do.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It's so interesting, and I want to ask you about
that in a minute. But do you remember when she
called you after she'd banged the doctor, or do you
remember when she found the lump in her breast?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I do remember. It's funny you ask that because I
do remember because we shared the same obigyn and we
both thought he was kind of handsome, right, so that's weird.
I've never had like a hot obigyn. He ended up
being a real douchebag because she did feel something in
her breast, and at the time, she didn't even bring
it up to me. I think because she trusted him
(08:27):
so much that she thought, well, if he is saying
this is nothing and don't worry about it, you don't
need a mammogram. Then I think she thought, oh, okay,
I feel like I got good advice, and so she
never really brought it up to me or had a concern,
and then, you know, down the line, realizing that she
had had breast cancer, that's when we started talking about
it and hashing it out and discussing our bad experiences.
(08:50):
With this particular doctor and how he was really caught
up in sort of the Hollywood scene instead of being
caught up with the well being of his patients.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
She writes about that in her book when she says
he was very dismissive when she said she had a
lump and said, you're too young to have breast cancer.
Don't be silly. How old was she?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I want to say she was, oh gosh, thirty two.
Thirty two at the time. I might be wrong sometimes
I get the dates a little much, but it was
around that early thirties time, and you know, we talked
about it a lot of why didn't she just trust
her own gut? Why didn't she go get a mammogram?
Why didn't she request a second opinion? But I think
(09:29):
you'll gather if you read her book and you understand
her she really trusted people that she felt like had
an authority in her life and had a sort of
kind of got lost in that dynamic sometimes and trusting
sort of the male in her life that's telling her
this is fine, this is okay. And I didn't really
fully grasp that until after I spent time with her book,
(09:50):
that she just struggled sometimes finding her voice is sticking
up for herself, especially when you're thirty two and your
doctor says, don't worry about it. I mean literally said,
you're too young for breast cancer. So every time I
tell the story, if you're out there and you're listening,
please please get a mammogram, even if you don't have any.
It's early detection is so important. I don't care how
(10:11):
old you are. Get a mammogram. Get it every year. Please.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And if you find something and your doctor says, oh,
don't worry about it, you can still ask for a
screening test. You can still say no, you know what.
Just to keep my mind at rest, I'd like to
get an ultrasounder. I'd like to get a mammogram. How
many years after that was she diagnosed and how did
it happen? You know?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So she was diagnosed a few years after that, and
it was I believe stage three at the time, so
it progressed very quickly within you know, some years. I
want to say it was twenty twelve.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Gosh.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
So looking back when she called me and said, you know,
I have cancer, I just remember not it wasn't computing
in my brain, and I remember thinking, oh, my gosh,
she's going to have such a long road. But I
never once thought that she wouldn't beat it, and she did.
She had a double mistectomy, she lost all of her hair,
she went through chemo hormone treatments, the whole nine yards,
(11:08):
and I remember, remember she was very private about it.
Nobody knew she had breast cancer. They're a very select
amount of people, and so her husband at the time
was very much her caretaker and took her to her appointments.
And I don't remember being as involved in her diagnosis
as I was the second time. But it was really
(11:28):
hard to see someone that I just assumed would never
get sick or never be ill, or never lose her hair,
and to know that it was, you know, the trickle
down of what the doctor did was really hard for
me to wrap my brain around because I was part
of that dynamic. I was, you know, I was still
you know, a part of you know, going and I
(11:49):
had to tell all of my friends who were going
to this particular obgui n like please all of you
stop going, like this is not good.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So, yeah, did she get angry, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
She got very angry. In fact, we were trying to
plot things that we could do to this particular doctor,
like like really mature things, you know, like egg is home,
slid it, splash his tires, you know, things that grown
women do. But we did, we did share the story
with a lot of people, and he did lose a
lot of a lot of patients. But he's still practicing
(12:21):
and still featured on you know, housewives shows, and he
still looked at it as a doctor in Beverly Hills.
And honestly, it's just it kind of turns my stomach.
I hope, I mean, we're all human, we all make mistakes.
I hope he's learned from this, and I hope he's
saved some lives because he did not do that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
For Molly, how did her cancer impact her relationship with
her husband? What did she tell you about it during
that time?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think it bonded them in the beginning, you know,
it glued them together because he was such a caregiver, caretaker.
He was really good at organizing, being in charge, facilitating appointments,
driving to appointments. They bonded very very much during that time.
I do think that it exacerbated sort of the problems
(13:12):
that they were also having, So I think it highlighted
the bad and the good within their relationship, but it
definitely bonded them and it tethered them together. That I
think is what made it so painful when Molly left,
because he felt such a bond and so did she.
But she was ready for that. She was ready for
that to be finished. I know, you know, I don't
(13:36):
want to paint him as anything other than just being
doing the best that he could. But it was she
could not discover who she was in the context of
that marriage, and so she got out. Eventually.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
She had a double mistake to me and a breastreate construction.
Did she talk to you about how she was feeling
about her body and her new breasts and how it
impacted on her sort of sexuality?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, Mollie never liked her boobs. She was always very
self conscious. She'd always say, show me your boobs. I
want to see what good boobs look like, and I
want boobs like yours.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Why didn't she like her babes?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yeah, they were let's be Mollie would love to know
that we were talking about her boobs. She would be
she would love this right now. She didn't like the
way they sat on her body. She didn't like they
were shaped. She thought they were too tiny and too small.
She was always very self conscious of them, and I
think she had a lot of self conscious issues with
(14:31):
her body, the same that I had at that age.
And I remember she would she would look at my
boobs and say, oh, my gosh, oh I want boobs
like that. So when it came down to her her
double mistectomy and then reconstruction, it was horrible on her body, painful, awful.
They have to stretch the skin. I think they were
Her breast reconstruction was one of the first where they
(14:53):
actually salvaged her nipples and kept her actual nipples intact.
So it was kind of an experimental surgery and it worked,
and her breasts looked amazing when they were finished. But
the price that she paid to get that, she she
always would joke about it like that. They lobbed off
every part of her that felt like a woman. Right.
They took away the cancer had taken away her ability
(15:14):
to have children, which you know, she wanted the choice.
I don't think she really wanted kids, but she wanted
to make that choice herself. Yeah, it took away her periods,
her hormones were all messed up, her limp nodes and
her breasts, and so I think when they were reconstructed,
she did feel a little like Humpty dumpty, right, Like
she felt like she was putting herself a little bit
back together and felt very confident in her body, more
(15:38):
so than I think she had ever felt pre cancer.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So how did she choose what size to go?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
She wanted She wanted them to look like mine, which
is so funny.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
So what sizes are you? Did you have to go
to appointments and say can you make something like this place?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I did. I went to one appointment and a good
friend and you know, it's funny that I don't have
large breasts. I just have very tiny, perky, normal breasts.
But you know, it's so funny. I've never talked about
my boobs more in my life. But she got a
bigger size in me. I was like, go a little
tiny bit bigger. She did not go. I mean, Molly
(16:14):
was a very tiny framed woman. So she went with
something that felt like it would suit her body. And
she was really proud of them because she was very
involved in it, like she was her own advocate. When
it came to medication, what they were putting in her body,
what the combinations of medications were, what the side effects were,
was the risk worth the reward? Like, she was very
(16:35):
tuned in and she was her own advocate, even when
it came down to her breast surgery.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So yeah, she took control of the uncontrollable.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Very that's a great way to put it. And it
was a reclaiming time for her. Like, it didn't just
start with the sex part. I think the reclaiming started
with being her own advocate and not letting a bunch
of not to make this gender specific, but not letting
a bunch of dudes in white coats sort of dictate
what was going to happen with her body. She was
ready to start making some choices on her own.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
She'd had the reconstruction, she was going through some issues
in her marriage, they were having therapy together. What were
the signs that the cancer was back? What made her investigate?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
So I remember this. I remember where she was living
and she called me. I even remember where I was
sitting that day. It's weird. It's like it was yesterday.
The sun was shining and I was sitting at my
desk and she called me and said, I'm leaving my
condo or my house. Right now, I'm gonna go work out,
but my hip is really bothering me, Like really, She
(17:49):
had hired a trainer, she was getting her strength back,
and I remember I didn't know it at the time,
but now looking back, I kind of remember feeling a
flicker of something like, oh no, but I thought, you know,
maybe it's just you overworked it. And she said, I'm
gonna go work out today. I'm gonna arrest it, but
I'm gonna go get it checked out, just to be safe.
And when she and got her tests done and her
(18:11):
screening's done, they found it was in her liver and
her brain, her lungs, I believe, in her bones, and
it was it was devastating because she thought she had
beat it, you know, she thought she had really put
it to rest. So it was back, and it was
back at stage four.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
She got the call while she was in the middle
of a therapy session, and the story she tells about
it is tragically hilarious in terms of her husband's reaction
or her then husband's reaction.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Right, So yeah, I always feel bad regurgitating the story
a little bit because it's it's Mollie's story. To tell,
But now I'm her voice, right, like it's for me
to tell. But I don't know all sides of the story.
I know Mollie's side, and that's the story that I'm telling.
And if somebody else wants to tell their side of
the story, they can get a podcast and write a book, right,
(19:04):
That's what I say. But with Mollie, she was in therapy.
They were working on some commundication stuff and she got
the call. And I think she was waiting for that call.
I mean, could you imagine sitting and waiting for, you know,
that kind of result to come. So she was in
therapy and got the call that it was metastatic and
that there you know, she specifically said that means there's
(19:27):
no cure for this, and this is most likely what
I'm going to die from. And the doctor was very
honest with her, and she just crumbled and lost it
in the middle of her session and then sat back down.
And then, according to Molly, you know, her husband said,
can we can we back get can we get back
to the session? Can we get back to why I'm angry?
And I think in that moment she knew in her
(19:48):
brain and her body that she was she was ready
to leave this relationship, and she was creating her exit strategy.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
From that moment on, you were in a pretty unique
position to understand what she was going through, right because
you'd lost your father and your brother had also faced cancer,
so you knew the ropes. Did that help in helping
her through what was to come?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
In some ways? Yes, I was well versed at appointments
and uncomfortable conversations and talking about the elephant in the room,
and I was used to watching that process. Oddly enough,
I've watched a lot of people die, very weird, but
so it gave me a sort of I don't even
(20:35):
want to say confidence. That's a weird word, but a
like a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about death,
but I felt very comfortable and confident saying like, this
is a part of life and we need to address it.
So I had this odd sense of like, I don't
know ownership over like I know what this is like,
and I'm going to do this with you. I don't
know if that makes sense. I'm saying it out loud.
It makes sense in my head, but I may not
(20:55):
be articulating it right now.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It does, Okay, No, it definitely does, because all you
can do is bear witness, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah. And then in terms of you would think after
watching my father die and watching my brother go through
cancer and other family members pass from this, that I
would have a reality check, like knowing this is not
probably going to get better. But for some reason, with Molly,
I just thought somehow she would defy all of the
(21:26):
odds because I thought she was so special. So I thought, well, gosh,
she's got so much to give and she's finally figuring
out what she wants to do and say in the world,
and this isn't going to take her anytime soon. So
we'd always laugh and we'd say she's you know. I'd say,
you know you're dying, and she'd say, well, aren't we all?
And then she would say things like, well I could
live longer than you. I could live longer than anybody
(21:47):
that we're looking at. I don't think we understood how
much the clock was ticking until she went into the
hospital for that last time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well, she was not behaving like a person who was dying.
I mean the first thing she did was leave her husband,
which is not really what I would think of doing.
How did that, like, what was your when she said
I'm out of you.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I didn't even think twice about it. I thought, well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
The thing that did strike me was that he was
very much her sort of healthcare person, right, And I thought, well,
how is she going to navigate this? I want to
ask her? She said, well, there's uber I was like,
and I said to her, I love you, I will
be there for you, but I cannot be your person
(22:37):
in that way. I've got two jobs, I've got two
step daughters, I've got a family, a life. I said,
you are such a huge part of my life. But
I was very honest with her and told her my
limitations of what I could and couldn't do. And I
knew I could have that chat with her because of
how close we were.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Mickey, you are very good with boundaries. Oh, Because, like
I was thinking, most people would go, I'll pay there
for you. I'll do whatever it takes people like his
when I'm available. And also Papa.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Now, listen, when she knew that when she called me
and needed me, she knew that if she was going
to exercise that option and say I need you, that
I knew she meant it like there was no crying
whole fear right, Like she knew that when she needed me,
I was going to drop whatever however to be there
for her, and I did quite often because that was
(23:31):
just I wanted to. It made me feel close to
her and useful in the world, and it was I
was her person, and she was my person in a
way I always laughed at and I always say Molly
was my I was Molly's person. But now that she's gone,
I'm realizing, ugh, how much my person that she really was,
(23:58):
because I miss her in ways that I didn't even
think were possible.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It still comes the grief, right, Oh gosh, the waves.
How many years has it been now?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
It was a year when the podcast was released, so
this passed February March as a year and a half.
It feels like yesterday, and it feels like a million
years ago, all wrapped up in one.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I feel like the fact that you were so good
with boundaries is incredibly impressive and was incredibly important for
your relationship to be able to stay as equal as
it was and to be able to stay as a
friendship like you weren't her, Cara, So you know that
from what I can glean about your friendship. From listening
(24:56):
to the podcast, you stayed on a very equal footing
throughout her illness.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, that's a beautiful thing to get. I don't know
if I ever realized that, but thank you for seeing
that we did, and that was for both of us.
Did that together. I'm sure we both did that because
we didn't want to turn into a bad marriage. We
wanted to be like the best friends possible.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
You know, when did the sex start happening?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Oh? Right, If I can tell you, this is exactly
how mine and Molly's chats would go. We'd be sobbing
at the table and then I would say, so can
we get back to the large penis that you saw
on Thursday? And She'd be like, happily. I was as
grateful to the sex as she was, because it was
such a nice distraction from talks about chemo and pills
(25:43):
and puking and you know, and your body falling apart.
It was a nice distraction. So the sex started before
she left, well virtually it started before she left her marriage.
And she said she asked him for permission if she
could go about that, and he was very willing to
allow her to sort of get tapped back into that
sexual part of herself, and then she realized she wanted
(26:04):
to take it into real life and she did not
want to be a cheater. And I think when she
was diagnosed to terminal, knowing that she wanted that part
of herself to feel alive again, she knew it was
time to leave the marriage. So as soon as she
left the marriage, she started dating like there was like
she started dating like she was dying, Like she went
for it. I mean, dates at six in the morning,
(26:27):
dates at two in the morning, dates at nine am, noon,
one at six pm. I mean, she was a serial dater.
It was crazy, wow.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And did she before she started dating in real life
she started. I've looked at the photos she took because
her Instagram account is still up, and those shots of
her she was really You could really see how she
was reclaiming her body and her identity as a sexual
being after cancer and through cancer and after ending her marriage.
(26:57):
And that was enough for her for a while, wasn't it.
It was yeah, until it wasn't until yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I think at first it was about her reclaiming of
her body and not being seen through the lens of cancer.
I think part of the reason why she kept her
cancer so private is she didn't want to be seen.
That is only that, and that happens often. I mean,
when someone you know that has cancer walks into a party,
the first thing you do is, oh, like you feel yeah,
And she didn't exactly fly and I think she appreciated that,
(27:30):
but that's not how she wanted to be seen. So
she would take these really sexy selfies, like super erotic
looking selfies that were Instagram friendly, and she posts them,
but she coupled them with these statements that were honest
statements like what she had been going through, what it's
like to have, you know, a port in her arm
and trying to hide it so that the sexy selfie
can be sexy and not you know, medical equipment. And
(27:52):
she would be honest and say, some days I'm on
the bathroom floor, you know, taking a selfie and looking erotic.
In other days, I'm on the bathroom floor because I
can't get off of it because I'm so fatigued. But
she wanted to start, you know, dipping her toe into that,
and so she started going on apps bum bumble, I
look at me. I'm like, what's it called mumble and tender.
(28:12):
I'm a serial like I'm a serial monogamous, so I
just go from one relationship to the next.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I didn't have time to date. I was too busy
making people commit to me. Anyway, that's a book in
and of it, Bill, But Molly really great, just like
meeting people where they were seeing guys that had these
interesting fetishes, talking to them on Tinder, talking to them
on Okay Cupid. Really there's an underbelly of sex that
(28:40):
goes on on all of these apps that I didn't
know about.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So let's revisit some of those. The couple in the
bar that she met, I.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Think that was the second or third thing she had
done in real life. And you know, she had always
been like, oh, should I should I date women? Should
I should I try it with a woman? And I'm like, well,
do you have interest? And She's like no, but I'm
gonna do it anyway. I'm like, okay. So she met
a couple in a bar that's actually right up the
street from where she was living and where I was living.
So this was all happening in the same neighbor which
is funny because I would take my stepdaughters to lunch
(29:12):
at the same little pub where Molly was like doing
things in the parking lot and I was like, this
is so weird and amazing. So yeah, she dated a
couple for a minute, made out with the woman in
the bathroom and was like, yeah, this is not hot.
And then while she was ending that date, she was
starting another date via her phone that she was heading
(29:33):
to go meet and exchanging you know, pictures back and
forth with the guy while she was basically telling this
couple like, hey, this was really hot, but I gotta go.
So she multitasking like a badass.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
The other episode from the podcast that I love is
I can't remember if it was at the end of
that actual date where she goes to the car with
the guy to make out.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yes, that was in the same exact neighborhood, at the
same exact bar. In fact, I've tried to get this
bar to like sponsor something because I'm like, do you
know what went on at your bar?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It needs to be a ploqu nikki at the bar. Definitely,
that's so funny.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Well, you know what's funny is that I called the
bar not that long ago to say could we do
something together? And the bartender goes, oh, Mollie, and I
was like, what, he goes, Yeah, we have listened to
the podcast. We remember Mollie and I'm like, oh my gosh,
this is another episode to record with these guys. All
these bartenders knew who she was because she frequented so often,
(30:35):
and she never ordered a drink because she wasn't a drinker,
so they knew she was a club, soda and lime girl.
So she hooked up with the gate I think he
might have been the first she hooks up with him.
They go to the car, they start, you know, making
out pretty hot and heavy. I think her top came
off and his pants came down, and the next thing,
you know, I think she's giving them oral sex. I
(30:57):
think that's what was going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And
then he started to get super roused. Didn't quite know
what to do with it, so he opened the car
door and just sort of let it all. I meant
this into the lawn, right, I don't I don't know
how graphic we can get here.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Oh, very that's fine. Onto the lawn, which is an
interesting choice.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right, But in the midst of it, his car alarm
starts to go off very loudly in a very private,
high end neighborhood. So as he's sort of unloading his
thing into life, well manicured minds the alarms and he
can't figure out how to turn off the alarm, and
(31:40):
it is blaring and it is a mess. And the
beauty of this is that she never saw him again.
We record the podcast, you know, a few years later
we recorded and start talking about this episode, and then
when Mollie went into the hospital, I realized, oh, we're
not gonna be able to finish this podcast together. And
then he appeared on the po I called him out
(32:01):
of the blue and to have him come on the
podcast and be so willing to sort of air his
dirty laundry. He he and I are still friends. We
still communicate, and I adore him.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
It was such a good spot because she hadn't told
him that she was sick, and he was so lovely
and open to having a chat about it when you called.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I know, he was just he's like one of my
favorite people. And we did meet for coffee and we
hung out, and I just kept thinking, Molly has no
idea the people that she's brought together in the stories,
and it was just it was one of those moments
where I was like, oh my gosh, this is where
Molly and I used to have coffee, and now I'm
having coffee with car alarm guy instead of Molly, but
we're talking about Molly. It was just all very very cool.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
One time you went to her house and she had
like makeup down one side of her face, like red,
white and blue makeup.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yeah, it was very it was contouring on a whole
new I was like, what is that color? I don't
think that. She's like, oh my gosh. She was in
a little nightie and she was just yeah, looked like
she had gone to the circus and she kind of had.
And I said where were you and she said, oh,
I was making out with a clown. And I said
like where, and she's like, well, he was working. And
(33:16):
then we hooked up and we just went for it.
He wanted to have sex with me while dressed as
a clown. And I said, and you went with it,
and she's like, oh, yeah, it was good. She's like
it was good. Okay, So yeah, it was smeared down
her face and her really light Like you said, she
had really blonde hair, and it was in her hair
it was red and blue. And I was like, oh,
(33:37):
my gosh, but that was Molly. I mean she was
just up for She was up for a lot, she
was up for anything.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
She was very completely non judgmental and ended up hooking
up with guys and learning quite a lot about different fetishes. Yeah,
the most perverse one was the guy who wanted her
to kick.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Him really hard, multiple times, over and over again in
the nuts, which I just thought was fascinating because isn't
that like the most painful thing that can happen to
a guy. But you would, so I asked her. I
had a lot of questions. I mean this was probably
a six hour lunch one day when we just sat
and I wrote down all these stories because I was like, oh,
my gosh, there is something here. So yeah, the guy
(34:17):
just wanted to be kicked multiple times over and over
and over again, and he didn't sort of climax or anything.
But she described it as sort of spank bank material
that he would carry with him for later in his
sex life. But there was something about being tortured in pain,
kicked by a woman in heels or in bare feet
(34:39):
that was just very erotic to him. I I had
to get over a lot of my judgment because I
was like what, why, who? Where? No? Oh, it doesn't
make any sense.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
But no, did these things turn her on or she
was more just almost like a wildlife documentary, just learning
about people and sex and different things.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
You Know, it's funny you say that, because a lot
of responses were well while Molly was just being a
service to people and doing things for others and not
necessarily for herself. And that does fall in line with
a little bit of who Mollie was, where she would
get a little lost sometimes in a dynamic and she
would just be such a good listener and so much
of service that maybe she wouldn't figure out her own
(35:24):
needs or her own ones. And I think as she
got more experienced, she realized how to learn things about
herself within the dynamic of that. She wasn't interested in
being a dominatrix, but she tried it right. She wasn't
interested in certain fetishes, but she was really interested in
the people behind the fetishes, the humans underneath it. And
(35:47):
so yes, a lot of it was sex based, but
I think a lot of it was human based. She
was just like absorbing all of it and in the
process feeling really sexy and connected to her sexuality. Into
her body that she was robbed of that as a
younger girl and a woman. And I think this was
there was a reclaiming happening. The sex needed to come
and then the emotional stuff was able to come after.
(36:10):
And I think she learned that when she was reflecting
on her life from her hospital bed.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
There's a point in your story and your friendship where
she's invited to go to New York to be in
a like a Breastcatzer fashion parade. Yeah, and she thinks
that it's going to be really great, and her mum,
I think lives still lives in New York, and you
went with her, and it turned out to be quite
(36:35):
a dark time, didn't it.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
It did? It was? You know, in the midst of it,
I was just doing being of service, helping and kind
of on autopilot. A little bit about halfway through the trip,
I realized that this was not turning out the way
that we both had hoped. We looked at it as
an opportunity for the two of us to go to
New York, stay in her childhood home, go to these parties,
(37:01):
be in fashion week. And when she got there, she
wasn't feeling great. A lot of it was emotional. I
think going back to New York with heart on her
I think that city carried a lot of sadness and
grief for her that she maybe had forgotten about over
the years. And I also think that, you know, she
wanted a sense of community in the breast cancer world,
(37:24):
but never quite knew how to find it with other women,
because she wanted to be seen but not she wanted
to be heard but not. So she was constantly just
you know, didn't know where to land. And I think
that she it was the first time she had gone
(37:44):
public about having breast cancer on a stage in front
of thousands of people, walking the catwalk as a badass.
But I kept seeing the younger girl and her sort
of crumbling because it was a lot. I think it
was a lot more than she or I or her
mom had expected. And so that was a really that
(38:04):
was a really hard trip on our friendship. It was hard.
It was like our first really big fight. I was
also going through my own personal stuff. I was pregnant
at the time, and I don't even know if I've
ever said that out loud, and maybe I have, but
I was pregnant, and I think it was probably my
fourth or fifth pregnancy. So I had lost all of
my pregnancies, all of them, and very latent to the pregnancies.
(38:29):
So here I was pregnant again, feeling hopeful but terrified,
and going on an airplane to support my best friend
with cancer. And I was emotional, she was emotional, and
it was kind of a recipe for disaster. And we
went through a lot during that weekend. It was it
was really really dark, beautiful moments to beautiful moments do
(38:50):
you'll fight about? It was so stupid. It really is right,
like I'm not a good like my fiance always says
to me, like you're not a good closer, like I
will be a rock star. But that then, like the
last mile of the race, I'm like, oh, of this,
So I'm like the worst. So I had we I
had flown there with her, we had stayed at her place,
(39:13):
we had sort of battled this thing together, and then
on her way home, she was just exhausted and tired,
and we got to the airport in Burbank and she
couldn't lift her bags, and all of a sudden, I
shouldn't have been lifting anything either, because I was pregnant
and terrified of losing another baby that I did end
up losing, by the way, you know, thank you, you know. So,
(39:37):
so we get off of the flight and my stepdaughters
and my dog and my fiance are coming to pick
me up, and Molly says, do you think I could
have a ride home? And I thought, oh gosh, I
don't know how we're going to fit everybody in the car.
And I said, they're all coming to pick me up
and you live opposite And it was one of those
moments where I was like, I felt tapped out, and
(40:00):
I just said, I can't give you a ride home.
The kids are in the car, and she kind of
rolled her eyes and got upset with me, you know,
and I snapped and I was like, it was pouring
down rain, she's so sick and frail, and she's holding
her bags, and I said, call an uber. I can't
deal with this. And I think I said something really
shitty and walked away from her and left her basically
standing in the rain with her bag, very sick and exhausted.
(40:24):
And that was our first real like fu fight, like
I'm tired of this shit. And we didn't talk for
two weeks, and that was the longest we had ever
gone without talking, but we uh we hashed it out
on the phone and really like aired our grievances and
moved on. It kind of brought us closer because I
feel like, once you have your first real fight with
(40:46):
a friend, that was kind of our first fight. It
was like twenty years in the making.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
You have to be very connected and feel very safe
in your relationship to have a fight like that.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Yeah, and I still feel bad about leaving her in
the rain, like that image. I won't ever forget of
just abandoning her. But she kissed me off, so yeah,
that was mad.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Where it is? When did you find out about what
had happened to her as a kid, and how did
that change the way you looked at her whole sexual adventure?
Speaker 4 (41:20):
You know, her sexual trauma. I always knew about it
because she told me very early on in our friendship.
But my twenty year old self, I think absorbed it
very differently than my forty year old self, So I
just kind of took it as, oh, that's information about her,
and that must have been very difficult and so hard,
but not into And you know, it's funny when she
started doing the sex right, like having crazy amounts of sex.
(41:44):
I didn't really I didn't want to say, oh, this
must be because of your trauma, right, Like, who am
I to say that? I don't know what this is.
I just supported her through all of it, no matter
what it was, like, who cares where it comes from.
If you have to go through it, you have to
go through it. So I thought a lot of it
was a reclaiming of her body. I thought a lot
(42:05):
of it was sowing some oats. She had an adverse
reaction to the me ocasion, which most people when they
do this sort of hormone therapy in their cancer journey,
it shuts everything down. But for her, she was like
vibrating and alive. So whether or not she was sexually
abused as a child or not, I felt like, this
is what she needs to go through. And I supported
(42:27):
it for two reasons. One because who am I to
judge somebody else's journey? And it was fun And I
saw her feel alive. And I saw her processing things
and getting excited about life and being excited about how
she looked and felt in the world. And it wasn't
all pretty. There are some real, messy, messy, uncomfortable things
(42:48):
that went down during these sexcapades. But I just always
trusted her, and I trusted that she knew her limitations
and what she could and couldn't do, And even though
she had been through trauma, I trusted that she was
protecting herself and taking care of herself. I would get worried,
but I always knew that, I don't know, I always
knew she'd be okay.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Were you worried for her physical safety? Like cooking up
with these random guys, the clowns and the nut kicker, and.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Well, I know it's funny occasionally, like there were times
where I'd say, could you text me when you get home,
just so I know you're safe? Right? And also, I
mean she's you know, she's a New York girl, right,
I mean she's an Upper West Side New York girl.
I'm from Saint Louis. Like I can kick some serious ass.
I'm like, she know she knows how to you know.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
She knows how to kick someone in the nuts.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Now true, that's so true. So I kind of always
knew that she was gonna be okay. There were a
couple of times where I was a little like, hey, Molly,
let's maybe not let's be a little safer, and she'd
be like, I know, I know, But overall I felt
like what she was doing you say that I'm good
at boundaries. Mollie was great, I think with some boundaries
(43:59):
within herself. There were times she found herself not great
with boundaries, but overall, in this journey, overall, I think
she really knew how to tune in with herself and
how to have conversations with herself to say, ah, this
is starting to feel like old stuff, this is starting
to feel like trauma, and this is feeling like being alive.
(44:20):
I think she could tell the difference. And as she
went on and had more sexual encounters, the more she
learned about herself, and I thought that was pretty empowering.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
When she went into hospital for that final time, she
didn't realize that it was going to be the final time.
She thought she was just going to have a procedure
and then come out. When did her head turn from
the sex to wanting to tell her story about what
had happened to her as a kid and her life.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Well, Molly always wanted to tell her story and write
a book, right even before the cancer and before all
of this happened. I think she always had a drive
to share. She was a wonderful writer, but I think
was afraid to be seen, afraid to be heard, yet
desperately wanted to be seen and heard at the same time.
So that dance was going on for her. But when
she entered the hospital, by the way, you ask the
(45:11):
best questions. I just love you. This is so wonderful.
He's a therapy. What do I owe you? When she
entered the hospital, it was a couple of months into
her stay. I mean she was there December January, from
almost four months. There was still like a month and
a half into her hospital stay. She still thought she
was getting out and going to get better, and she
(45:34):
was still sort of having suitors come visit her and
watch movies in her hospital room and sextying a little bit.
I mean, she was still in the very beginning. She
was still like doing it and working it and still
holding on to that.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
And then at one point a guy comes in, Did
she give me a blood job?
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Like? Yeah, don't god, that's right, Yes, yes, he came
to visit. He was so handsome and so cute, and
he came to visit. And when she told me the story,
I immediately did the eye roll, which was like, Oh
my god, what a douchebag. He shows up to the hospital,
you give him oral sex, and then he's like, oh,
I'm seeing it. Later he's out. But then once I
got to know him, because he came on the podcast
(46:13):
as well, once I got to know him and understand
more about him, it was actually not what I thought.
He came in they snuggled up in bed. She said
he took his clothes off so that he wouldn't contaminate
the bedroom, and I thought, oh, oh, really, that's why
he took his clothes off. That's so cute. But then
after I talked to him and kind of got to
(46:34):
know him, I really do think that that's what he
was seeing so respectful and like kind and loving him.
When I told him that she had well, he when
we finally had the conversation, he had revealed that he
knew she had passed away. He was devastated and heartbroken.
And I think in that moment, with that conversation with
him on the podcast, I fully realized how deeply she
(46:56):
touched these people that she would have these sexual journeys with.
It wasn't just a blowjob in the hospital. I mean,
it's fun to say, I think it was really something
deeper and more connected, because Molly was a very special creature.
She would get you to open up and reveal your deepest,
darkest things about yourself, and she made you feel heard
and seen and safe. And so I think that's when
(47:18):
she started to realize, like, I have the capacity to
have an emotional and a sexual relationship at the same time.
And by that time, she wasn't getting out of the hospital.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
So, yeah, you didn't expect for her to die when
you started making the podcast together, even though ironically it
was called Dying for Sex, you thought it was going
to end in a different way. How did you think
it was going to go?
Speaker 4 (47:45):
So I thought that we'd do like a season two. Right,
we did season one, which was all about like the sexcapades,
and then I thought season two we would get into
my story, which is the fertility because Molly beautifully said
once like I'm fighting for my life at the exact
same time that you're fighting to make a life. And
we were going through surgeries at the same time I
was going through miscarriages. While she was in the hospital.
(48:06):
We were facetiming with like our ivs in I mean,
we were really going through this, and she would always
say to me, if this is your version of cancer,
and she never made me feel badly for saying. You know,
I would say, oh my god, you're dealing with cancer
and I'm just dealing with this, and she always made
it feel very much like we were going through this together.
(48:28):
So I thought there'd be a season too, and I
thought there'd be a season where we could talk about
the trauma, the sexual trauma, and I just, I don't know,
I thought, you know, her doctors told her like, you
have years, not decades. So in my mind, I go to, Okay,
she's got nine years, We've got nine more years together, right,
And I think she actually thought she had a good little,
(48:49):
you know, a chunk of time. And I think when
she went into that hospital, I don't think any of
us prepared for it to be because she had defied
so many odds. I don't think we were prepared for
that to be her last, her last hospital visit.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
How did you then decide what to do with the
rest of the show.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
Well, we had been trying to find someone to you know,
distribute her story, knowing that there would be a season two,
and then once she got into the hospital and I
realized she wasn't coming out. Was it was my mission
to tell her story and I didn't know how to
do it, but I just knew that I was just
maybe just going to release the episodes that we had
(49:26):
recorded on my YouTube channel or wherever. I just had
to get them heard. But then when I realized that
she wasn't going to be getting out and that this
was the end was much closer than I had anticipated,
I asked her if she'd be willing to record from
her hospital bed, and she was very open to it.
So we recorded a couple of episodes, just she and
(49:46):
I on my phone with a little microphone attached from
her bed, and then I was getting ready to release
the episodes. I believe that she was she was still here,
and I wanted to release I wanted to release the
episodes because I wanted her to know that they were
out there. I just wanted her to know. And then
I decided to send an email to Wondery, who helped
(50:08):
me produce the podcast and gave this thing wings. I
decided to reach out again because I hadn't heard back
from them. I thought, gosh, start not responding, Okay, I
know this is Hollywood. Nobody responds to anything in this time,
and so I gave it one more shot and I
sent an email and I said, before I self published this,
I just wanted to make sure you're passing on this project.
And then the CEO of the company responded and said,
(50:29):
I never got the email, and I'm so glad you
reached back out. So I had a meeting with him,
and he came to the hospital and met Molly on
Valentine's Day and spent an hour with her, an hour
or so just sitting with her and promising that he
would tell her story. And so we worked for a
whole year after Molly had passed to really get this
(50:52):
this story told right, and we launched it almost a
year to to her passing, almost the anniversary of her passing,
which was felt very important to me.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I'm not surprised that the Graves coming back in a
new wave, because I imagine that time was like keeping
her alive for you and keep on friendship alive. And
now it's that, and then those that it's that in
the world, and then you're getting everybody's feedback about it,
and it's like, I guess the whole is there now
when do you notice it the mice.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
In the mornings when it's quiet and everyone's asleep and
I get ready to start my day. And a lot
of the times it has something to do with Molly,
Like she wanted to be the center of my universe
so often, and now she's gone, And I'm like, girl,
you the center you are. I am been telling your
story for years now. I've got her book next to
me or pictures, I wear her necklace. I'm like, she's
(51:49):
I feel closer to her now than I really ever have.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
And she's on your one time she did. She really
won't leave you alone. She's obsessed with you.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
I don't think I've told this to anybody, but where
she shipped on me the first time with the seagull,
where I said I released her ash. I said, show
me a sign, like a real sign, not like a
butterfly or dragonfly, like show me. The bird crept all
over my back, so much so that we had to
use multiple towels to wipe it off. It was disgusting.
My boy, my fiance was dry heaving. I was like, Moly.
(52:25):
And then we went back in May, we went back
to that same spot and we got engaged there and
right after we proposed, I set my camera up because
it's quarantine, so we're in masks and totally social distancing,
and we set up the camera to take a picture
on the timer and I pressed, you know, take the picture,
and the photo goes and goes. We took like ten
(52:45):
in a row, and all of a sudden, I look
over in a bird poops right next to us, I mean,
splatters all over the concrete next to us. And I
just looked at my fiance and I was like, she
did it again.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
She's just right there.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
I'm like, she's even.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
And that is a sense of humor that you two share.
It's just so perfect, so gross and more and twisted.
But I feel her in the mornings and as she is,
I mean, she guides me and my choices. She guides
me when I'm telling her story. I feel her actually
right now with you and me. I feel her in
this interview. It's but it comes up, and when it
comes up, I can't breathe.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
It's hard. But this is exactly how she wanted to
be remembered. So I feel very honored to be able
to tell her story.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Oh, Nikki and I had a little cry after the
microphones were turned off. In that interview, we both very
much felt that Molly was in the room with us,
even though we weren't in the room with each other.
We kind of just felt her around, and we felt
it in the connection that we kind of had with
(53:54):
each other. It was really interesting, you know when that happens.
Sometimes you just talk to someone and you just feel
like you've known them for a really long time. I
did not get shut on by Bird, so she wasn't
that close to me, but maybe that was because I
was inside and not on a beach. You are no
doubt going to want to hear more of Nicki's show
with Molly Dying for Sex. You are going to want
(54:16):
to dive deep. You're going to want to know what
Molly looks like, what Nicki looks like. That's certainly what
I did when I started listening to their show. And
then I found the Instagram account that Molly had created
with all the sexy selfies that she used to take
and send to people and just take for herself. So
we will put all those links in the show notes,
(54:37):
and the other thing that you'll appreciate if you've listened
to the Dying for Sex podcast, is how much Molly
wanted to finish her book before she died, and she
did and now you can buy it, and I've read
it and it is She's a really good writer. It's
a great book. Molly's book is called Screw Cancer The
Coming Whole. You can get it on Kindle. All the
(54:59):
details are at dyingfoseexpodcast dot com and you can follow
Nicki at Nicky Boyer that's Ni double Ki boy Er
on Instagram. I hope you enjoyed this episode of No Filter.
If you did, it would be a huge help to
me and everyone involved in making this show. If you
went and left a review wherever you get your podcast,
(55:22):
that helps people discover it and it helps us keep
on making it. This episode was produced by Leah Porges.
The executive producer of No Filter is Eliza Ratliffe. I'm
Meya Friedman and I'll see you on mamama dot com
dot au.
You're listening to a Mother Mia podcast. Mama Miya acknowledges
the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast
is recorded on Hi.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm Grace Ruey, the producer of No Filter, and I'm
jumping into your feed to bring you a very special
episode from our archives. You might have seen the brand
new TV series Dying for Sex. It's based on a
true story, a story of two best friends, Molly and Nicky.
After Molly is diagnosed with terminal cancer, she decides to
reclaim her sexuality before she dies. All of this with
(00:41):
her friend Nicki by her side, supporting her whilst on
their journey. The two made a hit podcast called Dying
for Sex and now it's a TV show.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
But back in.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Twenty twenty, Mia Friedman sat down with the real Nicky
to talk about her incredible friendship with Molly, their wild adventures.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
And the heartbreak of losing a friend.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We hope you enjoy this very special episode of No
Filter from our archives.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
This is an episode about the epic friendship between two women,
one that transcends marriages and divorce and miscarriage and sex
so much sex, and ends in the most poignant, tragic
and beautiful way.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Hi, Hi, How are you, my love?
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm so good?
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, good, we talk to you.
Speaker 4 (01:31):
It's so nice to see you. Okay, I don't have
to do anything. I'm not used to not being in charge.
I'm like, I just tell me about it.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
It's a podcast host off. It starts when your best friend,
your person, gets a life changing diagnosis. She's forty one
and she's married, but instead of living out the life
that she's built, she decides to leave her fifteen year
marriage so she can go and have hot and sometimes
kinky sex with strangers, dozens and dozens of them. What
(02:00):
do you do? Do you judge her, encourage her? Do
you support her? Or do you distance yourself? Maybe you
help her pick up guys. Well, my guest today you
make a hit podcast with her. So his hand was
there and I was like, I know that.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
Let it's going.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, I know where it's going, and you were okay
with it.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I was okay with it and like but I but
at one point I was like, I need to acknowledge
that I know that he knows that, I know that
we all know what's going on.
Speaker 4 (02:26):
Could I go?
Speaker 3 (02:27):
And I sounded like a prepubson boy. I was like, no,
I'm not expecting this, you know, like.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
I don't want anymore from Mama Maya. I'm mea Friedman
and you're listening to No Filter, a weekly interview podcast
with people who tell their stories very candidly and who
aren't afraid to be all kinds of vulnerable. Today, I'm
speaking to someone who really is the epitome of candid
and vulnerable in our conversation. Her name is Nicky Boyer.
(02:55):
She's an actress, and she is the voice and the
host of the cult podcast Dying for Sex. It's a
six part series that follows the story of Molly, who
is Nicky's best friend, who was dealing with that age
old question what do you do with the time that
you have left? Nicki and Molly's friendship celebrates life from
(03:17):
Hilarious tex Stories.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Dates at six in the morning, dates at two in
the morning, dates at nine am, at noon, one at
six pm.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
I mean, she's dealing with the loss of your person.
Speaker 4 (03:28):
I miss her in ways that I didn't even think
were possible.
Speaker 1 (03:33):
He is my beautiful conversation with Nicky Boyer. NICKI, how
did you and Molly mate?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
Molly and I met? Oh gosh, twenty something years ago
in an acting class in Los Angeles, and we met
in a dirty little studio. I don't want to say dirty,
it was kind of dirty. It was dark, and you
know that smell that a theater has where it hasn't
probably really properly been cleaned in quite a long time,
but it's got that musty smell to it. And so
(04:02):
we met in a studio for an acting class that
was on Melrose Avenue, which is where everybody wanted to
go to acting class. So that's where we met, in
a studio, dark, dark way.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Wait where were you both that in your lives when
you met? And did you hit it off straight away
or was it like a slow burn friendship?
Speaker 4 (04:19):
She hated me when she met me. She couldn't stand me.
Speaker 3 (04:22):
Right.
Speaker 4 (04:22):
I thought she was sweet and kind and who's that
girl that she She looked at me like, who's that
girl seeking all the attention in the room, And I'm like,
of course that's me. I had just moved to La
of course. I literally parked my car, got here and
signed up for an acting class because I was such
an overzealous type a and Mollie had I think it'd
been here for maybe a year and decided to embark
(04:45):
on an acting class and see what that did for her.
And it was a slow burn. We you know, I
have to say, I have to thank the teacher that
paired us up in a scene. You know, scene study
and acting class that give you a scene and you
go work on it and you bring it back. And
if that woman, Heidi, wouldn't have paired Molly and myself
up in the scene, I don't know if I'd be
telling the story today because we wouldn't have naturally gravitated
(05:08):
to each other. Scene sort of forced us into working together, communicating.
And then I'll never forget the moment I realized that
we were kind of cut from the same cloth, as
we had a little inside joke going on, and it
went on and on to the point where it was
obnoxious and annoying, and I was like, oh, she's my people,
and so that's how it came about.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Did you both want to be actors?
Speaker 4 (05:29):
Then? Yeah, we both did. She got over it very quickly.
I think after like the seventh or eighth class, she
was like, Okay, that's enough for me. I got bit
by the bug and I still to this day, I
still do acting.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
How old were you both At the time, I.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Was twenty two and she was twenty three. I think,
so at the time I felt very well seasoned and
smart and ready. And I look back and I'm like
we were infants, Like our brains weren't even fully developed yet.
But we were. Yeah, we were in our very early
twenties and very wide eyed and ready for whatever.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
And you know how when you made someone and there's
that platonic chemistry and there's banter, and you sort of
go in dates in terms of, you know, do you
want to grab a drink or do you want to
have dinner? How long did it take your friendship to
develop until you were kind of each other's person?
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Ooh god, that's a great question. I would say not long.
So after we did that scene together and I got
to sort of see where she lived, and she saw
where I lived, she very quickly became a staple in
my life. I was working at the time. I was
waiting tables and trying to find you go to auditions,
and I was a very aggressive, like I got to
get things done. Mollie was a little more chill and relaxed, right,
(06:45):
So she had a lot of free time. So she'd
said let's have lunch. And we'd have lunch and she'd say, well,
then can I come to your audition with you? And
she'd ride in the car with me and we'd go
to the audition and she'd say, well, do you want
to have coffee after? And I'd be like, this is amazing.
I've got I've got like a partner with me in
my car all day that's willing to go run errands.
And she just wanted companionship and to be with me
(07:05):
and I had a lot going on, so she was
like this perfect fit. So very quickly became each other's
person and started to have a shorthand and an understanding.
And she was a digger. She'd asked questions and she
wanted to know you the dirty, the ugly, the messy
parts as well as the beautiful parts. And that's that
was really interesting for me as one of my first
friendships in Los Angeles.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Was she married then?
Speaker 4 (07:28):
No, she was not. She was single. She was dating
a couple of dudes. I was dating a couple of dudes,
and I think I had just about met my ex husband.
So she's been with me during boyfriends, girlfriends, ex husbands,
new boyfriends, step kid, like we've been in it for
a while together. We had been. I still talk about
(07:50):
her like she's still here, you do.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
It's so interesting, and I want to ask you about
that in a minute. But do you remember when she
called you after she'd banged the doctor, or do you
remember when she found the lump in her breast?
Speaker 4 (08:05):
I do remember. It's funny you ask that because I
do remember because we shared the same obigyn and we
both thought he was kind of handsome, right, so that's weird.
I've never had like a hot obigyn. He ended up
being a real douchebag because she did feel something in
her breast, and at the time, she didn't even bring
it up to me. I think because she trusted him
(08:27):
so much that she thought, well, if he is saying
this is nothing and don't worry about it, you don't
need a mammogram. Then I think she thought, oh, okay,
I feel like I got good advice, and so she
never really brought it up to me or had a concern,
and then, you know, down the line, realizing that she
had had breast cancer, that's when we started talking about
it and hashing it out and discussing our bad experiences.
(08:50):
With this particular doctor and how he was really caught
up in sort of the Hollywood scene instead of being
caught up with the well being of his patients.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
She writes about that in her book when she says
he was very dismissive when she said she had a
lump and said, you're too young to have breast cancer.
Don't be silly. How old was she?
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I want to say she was, oh gosh, thirty two.
Thirty two at the time. I might be wrong sometimes
I get the dates a little much, but it was
around that early thirties time, and you know, we talked
about it a lot of why didn't she just trust
her own gut? Why didn't she go get a mammogram?
Why didn't she request a second opinion? But I think
(09:29):
you'll gather if you read her book and you understand
her she really trusted people that she felt like had
an authority in her life and had a sort of
kind of got lost in that dynamic sometimes and trusting
sort of the male in her life that's telling her
this is fine, this is okay. And I didn't really
fully grasp that until after I spent time with her book,
(09:50):
that she just struggled sometimes finding her voice is sticking
up for herself, especially when you're thirty two and your
doctor says, don't worry about it. I mean literally said,
you're too young for breast cancer. So every time I
tell the story, if you're out there and you're listening,
please please get a mammogram, even if you don't have any.
It's early detection is so important. I don't care how
(10:11):
old you are. Get a mammogram. Get it every year. Please.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And if you find something and your doctor says, oh,
don't worry about it, you can still ask for a
screening test. You can still say no, you know what.
Just to keep my mind at rest, I'd like to
get an ultrasounder. I'd like to get a mammogram. How
many years after that was she diagnosed and how did
it happen? You know?
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So she was diagnosed a few years after that, and
it was I believe stage three at the time, so
it progressed very quickly within you know, some years. I
want to say it was twenty twelve.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Gosh.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
So looking back when she called me and said, you know,
I have cancer, I just remember not it wasn't computing
in my brain, and I remember thinking, oh, my gosh,
she's going to have such a long road. But I
never once thought that she wouldn't beat it, and she did.
She had a double mistectomy, she lost all of her hair,
she went through chemo hormone treatments, the whole nine yards,
(11:08):
and I remember, remember she was very private about it.
Nobody knew she had breast cancer. They're a very select
amount of people, and so her husband at the time
was very much her caretaker and took her to her appointments.
And I don't remember being as involved in her diagnosis
as I was the second time. But it was really
(11:28):
hard to see someone that I just assumed would never
get sick or never be ill, or never lose her hair,
and to know that it was, you know, the trickle
down of what the doctor did was really hard for
me to wrap my brain around because I was part
of that dynamic. I was, you know, I was still
you know, a part of you know, going and I
(11:49):
had to tell all of my friends who were going
to this particular obgui n like please all of you
stop going, like this is not good.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
So, yeah, did she get angry, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
She got very angry. In fact, we were trying to
plot things that we could do to this particular doctor,
like like really mature things, you know, like egg is home,
slid it, splash his tires, you know, things that grown
women do. But we did, we did share the story
with a lot of people, and he did lose a
lot of a lot of patients. But he's still practicing
(12:21):
and still featured on you know, housewives shows, and he
still looked at it as a doctor in Beverly Hills.
And honestly, it's just it kind of turns my stomach.
I hope, I mean, we're all human, we all make mistakes.
I hope he's learned from this, and I hope he's
saved some lives because he did not do that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
For Molly, how did her cancer impact her relationship with
her husband? What did she tell you about it during
that time?
Speaker 4 (12:49):
I think it bonded them in the beginning, you know,
it glued them together because he was such a caregiver, caretaker.
He was really good at organizing, being in charge, facilitating appointments,
driving to appointments. They bonded very very much during that time.
I do think that it exacerbated sort of the problems
(13:12):
that they were also having, So I think it highlighted
the bad and the good within their relationship, but it
definitely bonded them and it tethered them together. That I
think is what made it so painful when Molly left,
because he felt such a bond and so did she.
But she was ready for that. She was ready for
that to be finished. I know, you know, I don't
(13:36):
want to paint him as anything other than just being
doing the best that he could. But it was she
could not discover who she was in the context of
that marriage, and so she got out. Eventually.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
She had a double mistake to me and a breastreate construction.
Did she talk to you about how she was feeling
about her body and her new breasts and how it
impacted on her sort of sexuality?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Yeah, Mollie never liked her boobs. She was always very
self conscious. She'd always say, show me your boobs. I
want to see what good boobs look like, and I
want boobs like yours.
Speaker 1 (14:09):
Why didn't she like her babes?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
Yeah, they were let's be Mollie would love to know
that we were talking about her boobs. She would be
she would love this right now. She didn't like the
way they sat on her body. She didn't like they
were shaped. She thought they were too tiny and too small.
She was always very self conscious of them, and I
think she had a lot of self conscious issues with
(14:31):
her body, the same that I had at that age.
And I remember she would she would look at my
boobs and say, oh, my gosh, oh I want boobs
like that. So when it came down to her her
double mistectomy and then reconstruction, it was horrible on her body, painful, awful.
They have to stretch the skin. I think they were
Her breast reconstruction was one of the first where they
(14:53):
actually salvaged her nipples and kept her actual nipples intact.
So it was kind of an experimental surgery and it worked,
and her breasts looked amazing when they were finished. But
the price that she paid to get that, she she
always would joke about it like that. They lobbed off
every part of her that felt like a woman. Right.
They took away the cancer had taken away her ability
(15:14):
to have children, which you know, she wanted the choice.
I don't think she really wanted kids, but she wanted
to make that choice herself. Yeah, it took away her periods,
her hormones were all messed up, her limp nodes and
her breasts, and so I think when they were reconstructed,
she did feel a little like Humpty dumpty, right, Like
she felt like she was putting herself a little bit
back together and felt very confident in her body, more
(15:38):
so than I think she had ever felt pre cancer.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
So how did she choose what size to go?
Speaker 4 (15:44):
She wanted She wanted them to look like mine, which
is so funny.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
So what sizes are you? Did you have to go
to appointments and say can you make something like this place?
Speaker 4 (15:54):
I did. I went to one appointment and a good
friend and you know, it's funny that I don't have
large breasts. I just have very tiny, perky, normal breasts.
But you know, it's so funny. I've never talked about
my boobs more in my life. But she got a
bigger size in me. I was like, go a little
tiny bit bigger. She did not go. I mean, Molly
(16:14):
was a very tiny framed woman. So she went with
something that felt like it would suit her body. And
she was really proud of them because she was very
involved in it, like she was her own advocate. When
it came to medication, what they were putting in her body,
what the combinations of medications were, what the side effects were,
was the risk worth the reward? Like, she was very
(16:35):
tuned in and she was her own advocate, even when
it came down to her breast surgery.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So yeah, she took control of the uncontrollable.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Very that's a great way to put it. And it
was a reclaiming time for her. Like, it didn't just
start with the sex part. I think the reclaiming started
with being her own advocate and not letting a bunch
of not to make this gender specific, but not letting
a bunch of dudes in white coats sort of dictate
what was going to happen with her body. She was
ready to start making some choices on her own.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
She'd had the reconstruction, she was going through some issues
in her marriage, they were having therapy together. What were
the signs that the cancer was back? What made her investigate?
Speaker 4 (17:26):
So I remember this. I remember where she was living
and she called me. I even remember where I was
sitting that day. It's weird. It's like it was yesterday.
The sun was shining and I was sitting at my
desk and she called me and said, I'm leaving my
condo or my house. Right now, I'm gonna go work out,
but my hip is really bothering me, Like really, She
(17:49):
had hired a trainer, she was getting her strength back,
and I remember I didn't know it at the time,
but now looking back, I kind of remember feeling a
flicker of something like, oh no, but I thought, you know,
maybe it's just you overworked it. And she said, I'm
gonna go work out today. I'm gonna arrest it, but
I'm gonna go get it checked out, just to be safe.
And when she and got her tests done and her
(18:11):
screening's done, they found it was in her liver and
her brain, her lungs, I believe, in her bones, and
it was it was devastating because she thought she had
beat it, you know, she thought she had really put
it to rest. So it was back, and it was
back at stage four.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
She got the call while she was in the middle
of a therapy session, and the story she tells about
it is tragically hilarious in terms of her husband's reaction
or her then husband's reaction.
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Right, So yeah, I always feel bad regurgitating the story
a little bit because it's it's Mollie's story. To tell,
But now I'm her voice, right, like it's for me
to tell. But I don't know all sides of the story.
I know Mollie's side, and that's the story that I'm telling.
And if somebody else wants to tell their side of
the story, they can get a podcast and write a book, right,
(19:04):
That's what I say. But with Mollie, she was in therapy.
They were working on some commundication stuff and she got
the call. And I think she was waiting for that call.
I mean, could you imagine sitting and waiting for, you know,
that kind of result to come. So she was in
therapy and got the call that it was metastatic and
that there you know, she specifically said that means there's
(19:27):
no cure for this, and this is most likely what
I'm going to die from. And the doctor was very
honest with her, and she just crumbled and lost it
in the middle of her session and then sat back down.
And then, according to Molly, you know, her husband said,
can we can we back get can we get back
to the session? Can we get back to why I'm angry?
And I think in that moment she knew in her
(19:48):
brain and her body that she was she was ready
to leave this relationship, and she was creating her exit strategy.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
From that moment on, you were in a pretty unique
position to understand what she was going through, right because
you'd lost your father and your brother had also faced cancer,
so you knew the ropes. Did that help in helping
her through what was to come?
Speaker 4 (20:13):
In some ways? Yes, I was well versed at appointments
and uncomfortable conversations and talking about the elephant in the room,
and I was used to watching that process. Oddly enough,
I've watched a lot of people die, very weird, but
so it gave me a sort of I don't even
(20:35):
want to say confidence. That's a weird word, but a
like a lot of people are uncomfortable talking about death,
but I felt very comfortable and confident saying like, this
is a part of life and we need to address it.
So I had this odd sense of like, I don't
know ownership over like I know what this is like,
and I'm going to do this with you. I don't
know if that makes sense. I'm saying it out loud.
It makes sense in my head, but I may not
(20:55):
be articulating it right now.
Speaker 1 (20:57):
It does, Okay, No, it definitely does, because all you
can do is bear witness, right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah. And then in terms of you would think after
watching my father die and watching my brother go through
cancer and other family members pass from this, that I
would have a reality check, like knowing this is not
probably going to get better. But for some reason, with Molly,
I just thought somehow she would defy all of the
(21:26):
odds because I thought she was so special. So I thought, well, gosh,
she's got so much to give and she's finally figuring
out what she wants to do and say in the world,
and this isn't going to take her anytime soon. So
we'd always laugh and we'd say she's you know. I'd say,
you know you're dying, and she'd say, well, aren't we all?
And then she would say things like, well I could
live longer than you. I could live longer than anybody
(21:47):
that we're looking at. I don't think we understood how
much the clock was ticking until she went into the
hospital for that last time.
Speaker 1 (21:55):
Well, she was not behaving like a person who was dying.
I mean the first thing she did was leave her husband,
which is not really what I would think of doing.
How did that, like, what was your when she said
I'm out of you.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I didn't even think twice about it. I thought, well, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
You know.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
The thing that did strike me was that he was
very much her sort of healthcare person, right, And I thought, well,
how is she going to navigate this? I want to
ask her? She said, well, there's uber I was like,
and I said to her, I love you, I will
be there for you, but I cannot be your person
(22:37):
in that way. I've got two jobs, I've got two
step daughters, I've got a family, a life. I said,
you are such a huge part of my life. But
I was very honest with her and told her my
limitations of what I could and couldn't do. And I
knew I could have that chat with her because of
how close we were.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Mickey, you are very good with boundaries. Oh, Because, like
I was thinking, most people would go, I'll pay there
for you. I'll do whatever it takes people like his
when I'm available. And also Papa.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Now, listen, when she knew that when she called me
and needed me, she knew that if she was going
to exercise that option and say I need you, that
I knew she meant it like there was no crying
whole fear right, Like she knew that when she needed me,
I was going to drop whatever however to be there
for her, and I did quite often because that was
(23:31):
just I wanted to. It made me feel close to
her and useful in the world, and it was I
was her person, and she was my person in a
way I always laughed at and I always say Molly
was my I was Molly's person. But now that she's gone,
I'm realizing, ugh, how much my person that she really was,
(23:58):
because I miss her in ways that I didn't even
think were possible.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
It still comes the grief, right, Oh gosh, the waves.
How many years has it been now?
Speaker 4 (24:19):
It was a year when the podcast was released, so
this passed February March as a year and a half.
It feels like yesterday, and it feels like a million
years ago, all wrapped up in one.
Speaker 3 (24:34):
Right.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
I feel like the fact that you were so good
with boundaries is incredibly impressive and was incredibly important for
your relationship to be able to stay as equal as
it was and to be able to stay as a
friendship like you weren't her, Cara, So you know that
from what I can glean about your friendship. From listening
(24:56):
to the podcast, you stayed on a very equal footing
throughout her illness.
Speaker 4 (25:02):
Yeah, that's a beautiful thing to get. I don't know
if I ever realized that, but thank you for seeing
that we did, and that was for both of us.
Did that together. I'm sure we both did that because
we didn't want to turn into a bad marriage. We
wanted to be like the best friends possible.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
You know, when did the sex start happening?
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Oh? Right, If I can tell you, this is exactly
how mine and Molly's chats would go. We'd be sobbing
at the table and then I would say, so can
we get back to the large penis that you saw
on Thursday? And She'd be like, happily. I was as
grateful to the sex as she was, because it was
such a nice distraction from talks about chemo and pills
(25:43):
and puking and you know, and your body falling apart.
It was a nice distraction. So the sex started before
she left, well virtually it started before she left her marriage.
And she said she asked him for permission if she
could go about that, and he was very willing to
allow her to sort of get tapped back into that
sexual part of herself, and then she realized she wanted
(26:04):
to take it into real life and she did not
want to be a cheater. And I think when she
was diagnosed to terminal, knowing that she wanted that part
of herself to feel alive again, she knew it was
time to leave the marriage. So as soon as she
left the marriage, she started dating like there was like
she started dating like she was dying, Like she went
for it. I mean, dates at six in the morning,
(26:27):
dates at two in the morning, dates at nine am, noon,
one at six pm. I mean, she was a serial dater.
It was crazy, wow.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
And did she before she started dating in real life
she started. I've looked at the photos she took because
her Instagram account is still up, and those shots of
her she was really You could really see how she
was reclaiming her body and her identity as a sexual
being after cancer and through cancer and after ending her marriage.
(26:57):
And that was enough for her for a while, wasn't it.
It was yeah, until it wasn't until yeah.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
I think at first it was about her reclaiming of
her body and not being seen through the lens of cancer.
I think part of the reason why she kept her
cancer so private is she didn't want to be seen.
That is only that, and that happens often. I mean,
when someone you know that has cancer walks into a party,
the first thing you do is, oh, like you feel yeah,
And she didn't exactly fly and I think she appreciated that,
(27:30):
but that's not how she wanted to be seen. So
she would take these really sexy selfies, like super erotic
looking selfies that were Instagram friendly, and she posts them,
but she coupled them with these statements that were honest
statements like what she had been going through, what it's
like to have, you know, a port in her arm
and trying to hide it so that the sexy selfie
can be sexy and not you know, medical equipment. And
(27:52):
she would be honest and say, some days I'm on
the bathroom floor, you know, taking a selfie and looking erotic.
In other days, I'm on the bathroom floor because I
can't get off of it because I'm so fatigued. But
she wanted to start, you know, dipping her toe into that,
and so she started going on apps bum bumble, I
look at me. I'm like, what's it called mumble and tender.
(28:12):
I'm a serial like I'm a serial monogamous, so I
just go from one relationship to the next.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Right.
Speaker 4 (28:17):
I didn't have time to date. I was too busy
making people commit to me. Anyway, that's a book in
and of it, Bill, But Molly really great, just like
meeting people where they were seeing guys that had these
interesting fetishes, talking to them on Tinder, talking to them
on Okay Cupid. Really there's an underbelly of sex that
(28:40):
goes on on all of these apps that I didn't
know about.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
So let's revisit some of those. The couple in the
bar that she met, I.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Think that was the second or third thing she had
done in real life. And you know, she had always
been like, oh, should I should I date women? Should
I should I try it with a woman? And I'm like, well,
do you have interest? And She's like no, but I'm
gonna do it anyway. I'm like, okay. So she met
a couple in a bar that's actually right up the
street from where she was living and where I was living.
So this was all happening in the same neighbor which
is funny because I would take my stepdaughters to lunch
(29:12):
at the same little pub where Molly was like doing
things in the parking lot and I was like, this
is so weird and amazing. So yeah, she dated a
couple for a minute, made out with the woman in
the bathroom and was like, yeah, this is not hot.
And then while she was ending that date, she was
starting another date via her phone that she was heading
(29:33):
to go meet and exchanging you know, pictures back and
forth with the guy while she was basically telling this
couple like, hey, this was really hot, but I gotta go.
So she multitasking like a badass.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
The other episode from the podcast that I love is
I can't remember if it was at the end of
that actual date where she goes to the car with
the guy to make out.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
Yes, that was in the same exact neighborhood, at the
same exact bar. In fact, I've tried to get this
bar to like sponsor something because I'm like, do you
know what went on at your bar?
Speaker 1 (30:06):
It needs to be a ploqu nikki at the bar. Definitely,
that's so funny.
Speaker 4 (30:13):
Well, you know what's funny is that I called the
bar not that long ago to say could we do
something together? And the bartender goes, oh, Mollie, and I
was like, what, he goes, Yeah, we have listened to
the podcast. We remember Mollie and I'm like, oh my gosh,
this is another episode to record with these guys. All
these bartenders knew who she was because she frequented so often,
(30:35):
and she never ordered a drink because she wasn't a drinker,
so they knew she was a club, soda and lime girl.
So she hooked up with the gate I think he
might have been the first she hooks up with him.
They go to the car, they start, you know, making
out pretty hot and heavy. I think her top came
off and his pants came down, and the next thing,
you know, I think she's giving them oral sex. I
(30:57):
think that's what was going on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And
then he started to get super roused. Didn't quite know
what to do with it, so he opened the car
door and just sort of let it all. I meant
this into the lawn, right, I don't I don't know
how graphic we can get here.
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Oh, very that's fine. Onto the lawn, which is an
interesting choice.
Speaker 4 (31:19):
Right, But in the midst of it, his car alarm
starts to go off very loudly in a very private,
high end neighborhood. So as he's sort of unloading his
thing into life, well manicured minds the alarms and he
can't figure out how to turn off the alarm, and
(31:40):
it is blaring and it is a mess. And the
beauty of this is that she never saw him again.
We record the podcast, you know, a few years later
we recorded and start talking about this episode, and then
when Mollie went into the hospital, I realized, oh, we're
not gonna be able to finish this podcast together. And
then he appeared on the po I called him out
(32:01):
of the blue and to have him come on the
podcast and be so willing to sort of air his
dirty laundry. He he and I are still friends. We
still communicate, and I adore him.
Speaker 1 (32:12):
It was such a good spot because she hadn't told
him that she was sick, and he was so lovely
and open to having a chat about it when you called.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
I know, he was just he's like one of my
favorite people. And we did meet for coffee and we
hung out, and I just kept thinking, Molly has no
idea the people that she's brought together in the stories,
and it was just it was one of those moments
where I was like, oh my gosh, this is where
Molly and I used to have coffee, and now I'm
having coffee with car alarm guy instead of Molly, but
we're talking about Molly. It was just all very very cool.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
One time you went to her house and she had
like makeup down one side of her face, like red,
white and blue makeup.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
Yeah, it was very it was contouring on a whole
new I was like, what is that color? I don't
think that. She's like, oh my gosh. She was in
a little nightie and she was just yeah, looked like
she had gone to the circus and she kind of had.
And I said where were you and she said, oh,
I was making out with a clown. And I said
like where, and she's like, well, he was working. And
(33:16):
then we hooked up and we just went for it.
He wanted to have sex with me while dressed as
a clown. And I said, and you went with it,
and she's like, oh, yeah, it was good. She's like
it was good. Okay, So yeah, it was smeared down
her face and her really light Like you said, she
had really blonde hair, and it was in her hair
it was red and blue. And I was like, oh,
(33:37):
my gosh, but that was Molly. I mean she was
just up for She was up for a lot, she
was up for anything.
Speaker 1 (33:43):
She was very completely non judgmental and ended up hooking
up with guys and learning quite a lot about different fetishes. Yeah,
the most perverse one was the guy who wanted her
to kick.
Speaker 4 (33:55):
Him really hard, multiple times, over and over again in
the nuts, which I just thought was fascinating because isn't
that like the most painful thing that can happen to
a guy. But you would, so I asked her. I
had a lot of questions. I mean this was probably
a six hour lunch one day when we just sat
and I wrote down all these stories because I was like, oh,
my gosh, there is something here. So yeah, the guy
(34:17):
just wanted to be kicked multiple times over and over
and over again, and he didn't sort of climax or anything.
But she described it as sort of spank bank material
that he would carry with him for later in his
sex life. But there was something about being tortured in pain,
kicked by a woman in heels or in bare feet
(34:39):
that was just very erotic to him. I I had
to get over a lot of my judgment because I
was like what, why, who? Where? No? Oh, it doesn't
make any sense.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
But no, did these things turn her on or she
was more just almost like a wildlife documentary, just learning
about people and sex and different things.
Speaker 4 (35:04):
You Know, it's funny you say that, because a lot
of responses were well while Molly was just being a
service to people and doing things for others and not
necessarily for herself. And that does fall in line with
a little bit of who Mollie was, where she would
get a little lost sometimes in a dynamic and she
would just be such a good listener and so much
of service that maybe she wouldn't figure out her own
(35:24):
needs or her own ones. And I think as she
got more experienced, she realized how to learn things about
herself within the dynamic of that. She wasn't interested in
being a dominatrix, but she tried it right. She wasn't
interested in certain fetishes, but she was really interested in
the people behind the fetishes, the humans underneath it. And
(35:47):
so yes, a lot of it was sex based, but
I think a lot of it was human based. She
was just like absorbing all of it and in the
process feeling really sexy and connected to her sexuality. Into
her body that she was robbed of that as a
younger girl and a woman. And I think this was
there was a reclaiming happening. The sex needed to come
and then the emotional stuff was able to come after.
(36:10):
And I think she learned that when she was reflecting
on her life from her hospital bed.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
There's a point in your story and your friendship where
she's invited to go to New York to be in
a like a Breastcatzer fashion parade. Yeah, and she thinks
that it's going to be really great, and her mum,
I think lives still lives in New York, and you
went with her, and it turned out to be quite
(36:35):
a dark time, didn't it.
Speaker 4 (36:38):
It did? It was? You know, in the midst of it,
I was just doing being of service, helping and kind
of on autopilot. A little bit about halfway through the trip,
I realized that this was not turning out the way
that we both had hoped. We looked at it as
an opportunity for the two of us to go to
New York, stay in her childhood home, go to these parties,
(37:01):
be in fashion week. And when she got there, she
wasn't feeling great. A lot of it was emotional. I
think going back to New York with heart on her
I think that city carried a lot of sadness and
grief for her that she maybe had forgotten about over
the years. And I also think that, you know, she
wanted a sense of community in the breast cancer world,
(37:24):
but never quite knew how to find it with other women,
because she wanted to be seen but not she wanted
to be heard but not. So she was constantly just
you know, didn't know where to land. And I think
that she it was the first time she had gone
(37:44):
public about having breast cancer on a stage in front
of thousands of people, walking the catwalk as a badass.
But I kept seeing the younger girl and her sort
of crumbling because it was a lot. I think it
was a lot more than she or I or her
mom had expected. And so that was a really that
(38:04):
was a really hard trip on our friendship. It was hard.
It was like our first really big fight. I was
also going through my own personal stuff. I was pregnant
at the time, and I don't even know if I've
ever said that out loud, and maybe I have, but
I was pregnant, and I think it was probably my
fourth or fifth pregnancy. So I had lost all of
my pregnancies, all of them, and very latent to the pregnancies.
(38:29):
So here I was pregnant again, feeling hopeful but terrified,
and going on an airplane to support my best friend
with cancer. And I was emotional, she was emotional, and
it was kind of a recipe for disaster. And we
went through a lot during that weekend. It was it
was really really dark, beautiful moments to beautiful moments do
(38:50):
you'll fight about? It was so stupid. It really is right,
like I'm not a good like my fiance always says
to me, like you're not a good closer, like I
will be a rock star. But that then, like the
last mile of the race, I'm like, oh, of this,
So I'm like the worst. So I had we I
had flown there with her, we had stayed at her place,
(39:13):
we had sort of battled this thing together, and then
on her way home, she was just exhausted and tired,
and we got to the airport in Burbank and she
couldn't lift her bags, and all of a sudden, I
shouldn't have been lifting anything either, because I was pregnant
and terrified of losing another baby that I did end
up losing, by the way, you know, thank you, you know. So,
(39:37):
so we get off of the flight and my stepdaughters
and my dog and my fiance are coming to pick
me up, and Molly says, do you think I could
have a ride home? And I thought, oh gosh, I
don't know how we're going to fit everybody in the car.
And I said, they're all coming to pick me up
and you live opposite And it was one of those
moments where I was like, I felt tapped out, and
(40:00):
I just said, I can't give you a ride home.
The kids are in the car, and she kind of
rolled her eyes and got upset with me, you know,
and I snapped and I was like, it was pouring
down rain, she's so sick and frail, and she's holding
her bags, and I said, call an uber. I can't
deal with this. And I think I said something really
shitty and walked away from her and left her basically
standing in the rain with her bag, very sick and exhausted.
(40:24):
And that was our first real like fu fight, like
I'm tired of this shit. And we didn't talk for
two weeks, and that was the longest we had ever
gone without talking, but we uh we hashed it out
on the phone and really like aired our grievances and
moved on. It kind of brought us closer because I
feel like, once you have your first real fight with
(40:46):
a friend, that was kind of our first fight. It
was like twenty years in the making.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
You have to be very connected and feel very safe
in your relationship to have a fight like that.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Yeah, and I still feel bad about leaving her in
the rain, like that image. I won't ever forget of
just abandoning her. But she kissed me off, so yeah,
that was mad.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Where it is? When did you find out about what
had happened to her as a kid, and how did
that change the way you looked at her whole sexual adventure?
Speaker 4 (41:20):
You know, her sexual trauma. I always knew about it
because she told me very early on in our friendship.
But my twenty year old self, I think absorbed it
very differently than my forty year old self, So I
just kind of took it as, oh, that's information about her,
and that must have been very difficult and so hard,
but not into And you know, it's funny when she
started doing the sex right, like having crazy amounts of sex.
(41:44):
I didn't really I didn't want to say, oh, this
must be because of your trauma, right, Like, who am
I to say that? I don't know what this is.
I just supported her through all of it, no matter
what it was, like, who cares where it comes from.
If you have to go through it, you have to
go through it. So I thought a lot of it
was a reclaiming of her body. I thought a lot
(42:05):
of it was sowing some oats. She had an adverse
reaction to the me ocasion, which most people when they
do this sort of hormone therapy in their cancer journey,
it shuts everything down. But for her, she was like
vibrating and alive. So whether or not she was sexually
abused as a child or not, I felt like, this
is what she needs to go through. And I supported
(42:27):
it for two reasons. One because who am I to
judge somebody else's journey? And it was fun And I
saw her feel alive. And I saw her processing things
and getting excited about life and being excited about how
she looked and felt in the world. And it wasn't
all pretty. There are some real, messy, messy, uncomfortable things
(42:48):
that went down during these sexcapades. But I just always
trusted her, and I trusted that she knew her limitations
and what she could and couldn't do, And even though
she had been through trauma, I trusted that she was
protecting herself and taking care of herself. I would get worried,
but I always knew that, I don't know, I always
knew she'd be okay.
Speaker 1 (43:09):
Were you worried for her physical safety? Like cooking up
with these random guys, the clowns and the nut kicker, and.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
Well, I know it's funny occasionally, like there were times
where I'd say, could you text me when you get home,
just so I know you're safe? Right? And also, I
mean she's you know, she's a New York girl, right,
I mean she's an Upper West Side New York girl.
I'm from Saint Louis. Like I can kick some serious ass.
I'm like, she know she knows how to you know.
Speaker 1 (43:36):
She knows how to kick someone in the nuts.
Speaker 4 (43:37):
Now true, that's so true. So I kind of always
knew that she was gonna be okay. There were a
couple of times where I was a little like, hey, Molly,
let's maybe not let's be a little safer, and she'd
be like, I know, I know, But overall I felt
like what she was doing you say that I'm good
at boundaries. Mollie was great, I think with some boundaries
(43:59):
within herself. There were times she found herself not great
with boundaries, but overall, in this journey, overall, I think
she really knew how to tune in with herself and
how to have conversations with herself to say, ah, this
is starting to feel like old stuff, this is starting
to feel like trauma, and this is feeling like being alive.
(44:20):
I think she could tell the difference. And as she
went on and had more sexual encounters, the more she
learned about herself, and I thought that was pretty empowering.
Speaker 1 (44:29):
When she went into hospital for that final time, she
didn't realize that it was going to be the final time.
She thought she was just going to have a procedure
and then come out. When did her head turn from
the sex to wanting to tell her story about what
had happened to her as a kid and her life.
Speaker 4 (44:48):
Well, Molly always wanted to tell her story and write
a book, right even before the cancer and before all
of this happened. I think she always had a drive
to share. She was a wonderful writer, but I think
was afraid to be seen, afraid to be heard, yet
desperately wanted to be seen and heard at the same time.
So that dance was going on for her. But when
she entered the hospital, by the way, you ask the
(45:11):
best questions. I just love you. This is so wonderful.
He's a therapy. What do I owe you? When she
entered the hospital, it was a couple of months into
her stay. I mean she was there December January, from
almost four months. There was still like a month and
a half into her hospital stay. She still thought she
was getting out and going to get better, and she
(45:34):
was still sort of having suitors come visit her and
watch movies in her hospital room and sextying a little bit.
I mean, she was still in the very beginning. She
was still like doing it and working it and still
holding on to that.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
And then at one point a guy comes in, Did
she give me a blood job?
Speaker 4 (45:52):
Like? Yeah, don't god, that's right, Yes, yes, he came
to visit. He was so handsome and so cute, and
he came to visit. And when she told me the story,
I immediately did the eye roll, which was like, Oh
my god, what a douchebag. He shows up to the hospital,
you give him oral sex, and then he's like, oh,
I'm seeing it. Later he's out. But then once I
got to know him, because he came on the podcast
(46:13):
as well, once I got to know him and understand
more about him, it was actually not what I thought.
He came in they snuggled up in bed. She said
he took his clothes off so that he wouldn't contaminate
the bedroom, and I thought, oh, oh, really, that's why
he took his clothes off. That's so cute. But then
after I talked to him and kind of got to
(46:34):
know him, I really do think that that's what he
was seeing so respectful and like kind and loving him.
When I told him that she had well, he when
we finally had the conversation, he had revealed that he
knew she had passed away. He was devastated and heartbroken.
And I think in that moment, with that conversation with
him on the podcast, I fully realized how deeply she
(46:56):
touched these people that she would have these sexual journeys with.
It wasn't just a blowjob in the hospital. I mean,
it's fun to say, I think it was really something
deeper and more connected, because Molly was a very special creature.
She would get you to open up and reveal your deepest,
darkest things about yourself, and she made you feel heard
and seen and safe. And so I think that's when
(47:18):
she started to realize, like, I have the capacity to
have an emotional and a sexual relationship at the same time.
And by that time, she wasn't getting out of the hospital.
Speaker 1 (47:27):
So, yeah, you didn't expect for her to die when
you started making the podcast together, even though ironically it
was called Dying for Sex, you thought it was going
to end in a different way. How did you think
it was going to go?
Speaker 4 (47:45):
So I thought that we'd do like a season two. Right,
we did season one, which was all about like the sexcapades,
and then I thought season two we would get into
my story, which is the fertility because Molly beautifully said
once like I'm fighting for my life at the exact
same time that you're fighting to make a life. And
we were going through surgeries at the same time I
was going through miscarriages. While she was in the hospital.
(48:06):
We were facetiming with like our ivs in I mean,
we were really going through this, and she would always
say to me, if this is your version of cancer,
and she never made me feel badly for saying. You know,
I would say, oh my god, you're dealing with cancer
and I'm just dealing with this, and she always made
it feel very much like we were going through this together.
(48:28):
So I thought there'd be a season too, and I
thought there'd be a season where we could talk about
the trauma, the sexual trauma, and I just, I don't know,
I thought, you know, her doctors told her like, you
have years, not decades. So in my mind, I go to, Okay,
she's got nine years, We've got nine more years together, right,
And I think she actually thought she had a good little,
(48:49):
you know, a chunk of time. And I think when
she went into that hospital, I don't think any of
us prepared for it to be because she had defied
so many odds. I don't think we were prepared for
that to be her last, her last hospital visit.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
How did you then decide what to do with the
rest of the show.
Speaker 4 (49:04):
Well, we had been trying to find someone to you know,
distribute her story, knowing that there would be a season two,
and then once she got into the hospital and I
realized she wasn't coming out. Was it was my mission
to tell her story and I didn't know how to
do it, but I just knew that I was just
maybe just going to release the episodes that we had
(49:26):
recorded on my YouTube channel or wherever. I just had
to get them heard. But then when I realized that
she wasn't going to be getting out and that this
was the end was much closer than I had anticipated,
I asked her if she'd be willing to record from
her hospital bed, and she was very open to it.
So we recorded a couple of episodes, just she and
(49:46):
I on my phone with a little microphone attached from
her bed, and then I was getting ready to release
the episodes. I believe that she was she was still here,
and I wanted to release I wanted to release the
episodes because I wanted her to know that they were
out there. I just wanted her to know. And then
I decided to send an email to Wondery, who helped
(50:08):
me produce the podcast and gave this thing wings. I
decided to reach out again because I hadn't heard back
from them. I thought, gosh, start not responding, Okay, I
know this is Hollywood. Nobody responds to anything in this time,
and so I gave it one more shot and I
sent an email and I said, before I self published this,
I just wanted to make sure you're passing on this project.
And then the CEO of the company responded and said,
(50:29):
I never got the email, and I'm so glad you
reached back out. So I had a meeting with him,
and he came to the hospital and met Molly on
Valentine's Day and spent an hour with her, an hour
or so just sitting with her and promising that he
would tell her story. And so we worked for a
whole year after Molly had passed to really get this
(50:52):
this story told right, and we launched it almost a
year to to her passing, almost the anniversary of her passing,
which was felt very important to me.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I'm not surprised that the Graves coming back in a
new wave, because I imagine that time was like keeping
her alive for you and keep on friendship alive. And
now it's that, and then those that it's that in
the world, and then you're getting everybody's feedback about it,
and it's like, I guess the whole is there now
when do you notice it the mice.
Speaker 4 (51:28):
In the mornings when it's quiet and everyone's asleep and
I get ready to start my day. And a lot
of the times it has something to do with Molly,
Like she wanted to be the center of my universe
so often, and now she's gone, And I'm like, girl,
you the center you are. I am been telling your
story for years now. I've got her book next to
me or pictures, I wear her necklace. I'm like, she's
(51:49):
I feel closer to her now than I really ever have.
Speaker 1 (51:53):
And she's on your one time she did. She really
won't leave you alone. She's obsessed with you.
Speaker 4 (52:01):
I don't think I've told this to anybody, but where
she shipped on me the first time with the seagull,
where I said I released her ash. I said, show
me a sign, like a real sign, not like a
butterfly or dragonfly, like show me. The bird crept all
over my back, so much so that we had to
use multiple towels to wipe it off. It was disgusting.
My boy, my fiance was dry heaving. I was like, Moly.
(52:25):
And then we went back in May, we went back
to that same spot and we got engaged there and
right after we proposed, I set my camera up because
it's quarantine, so we're in masks and totally social distancing,
and we set up the camera to take a picture
on the timer and I pressed, you know, take the picture,
and the photo goes and goes. We took like ten
(52:45):
in a row, and all of a sudden, I look
over in a bird poops right next to us, I mean,
splatters all over the concrete next to us. And I
just looked at my fiance and I was like, she
did it again.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
She's just right there.
Speaker 4 (52:59):
I'm like, she's even.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
And that is a sense of humor that you two share.
It's just so perfect, so gross and more and twisted.
But I feel her in the mornings and as she is,
I mean, she guides me and my choices. She guides
me when I'm telling her story. I feel her actually
right now with you and me. I feel her in
this interview. It's but it comes up, and when it
comes up, I can't breathe.
Speaker 4 (53:25):
It's hard. But this is exactly how she wanted to
be remembered. So I feel very honored to be able
to tell her story.
Speaker 1 (53:33):
Oh, Nikki and I had a little cry after the
microphones were turned off. In that interview, we both very
much felt that Molly was in the room with us,
even though we weren't in the room with each other.
We kind of just felt her around, and we felt
it in the connection that we kind of had with
(53:54):
each other. It was really interesting, you know when that happens.
Sometimes you just talk to someone and you just feel
like you've known them for a really long time. I
did not get shut on by Bird, so she wasn't
that close to me, but maybe that was because I
was inside and not on a beach. You are no
doubt going to want to hear more of Nicki's show
with Molly Dying for Sex. You are going to want
(54:16):
to dive deep. You're going to want to know what
Molly looks like, what Nicki looks like. That's certainly what
I did when I started listening to their show. And
then I found the Instagram account that Molly had created
with all the sexy selfies that she used to take
and send to people and just take for herself. So
we will put all those links in the show notes,
(54:37):
and the other thing that you'll appreciate if you've listened
to the Dying for Sex podcast, is how much Molly
wanted to finish her book before she died, and she
did and now you can buy it, and I've read
it and it is She's a really good writer. It's
a great book. Molly's book is called Screw Cancer The
Coming Whole. You can get it on Kindle. All the
(54:59):
details are at dyingfoseexpodcast dot com and you can follow
Nicki at Nicky Boyer that's Ni double Ki boy Er
on Instagram. I hope you enjoyed this episode of No Filter.
If you did, it would be a huge help to
me and everyone involved in making this show. If you
went and left a review wherever you get your podcast,
(55:22):
that helps people discover it and it helps us keep
on making it. This episode was produced by Leah Porges.
The executive producer of No Filter is Eliza Ratliffe. I'm
Meya Friedman and I'll see you on mamama dot com
dot au.
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