November 14, 2025 • 44 mins
Takeaways:
- The Walk and Talk podcast serves as a vital platform for food lovers and culinary professionals alike, highlighting the intricate narratives behind the culinary arts.
- Chef Freddie Money, the 2025 US Culinary Open champion, reflects on his journey, illustrating the significance of discipline and creativity in a professional kitchen.
- Traveling extensively allows chefs to immerse themselves in diverse culinary techniques and ingredients, fostering a broader understanding of gastronomy around the world.
- The evolution of the culinary industry emphasizes the importance of education and mentorship, ensuring the next generation of chefs is well-prepared for the challenges they will face.
- A Michelin-starred restaurant operates as a cohesive unit, where collaboration among chefs, servers, and beverage experts is paramount to delivering exceptional dining experiences.
- In culinary arts, one must appreciate the balance between creativity and tradition, ensuring that the essence of a dish remains true to its foundational elements.
Mentioned in this episode:
Metro Foodservice Solutions
Kitchen and back-of-house systems for better flow and function.
RAK Porcelain USA -Tableware
We use RAK for all in-studio tableware—clean, durable, and designed for chefs.
Aussie Select - Fully cooked, premium Australian lamb
Fully cooked, premium Australian lamb—ready to serve and packed with clean flavor.
Citrus America
Citrus America – Commercial-grade juicing systems built for speed and yield.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:31):
You've just stepped inside theWalk and Talk podcast, number one
in the nation for food lovers,chefs and storytellers.
I'm Carl Fiordini, your host,shining a light on the flavor, the
hustle, and the heart of the industry.
We're the official podcast forthe New York, California and Florida
restaurant shows, the PizzaTomorrow Summit, the US Culinary
Open at nafm, and the NorthAmerican media platform for the Burnt
(00:53):
Chef project, recorded at IbisImages Studios where food photography
comes alive and I get thefirst bite.
Find out moreinfo@thewalkandtalk.com rolling.
Quiet on set.
Team Walk and Talk Media ishere at Michelin rated Atlas in Atlanta.
Oh, my goodness.
(01:13):
So Putra Vera will beinterviewing chef Freddie Money,
winner of the US culinary open 2025.
This is the ring ceremony.
This is badass chef wa.
Welcome and thank you for thisinvitation to come here and be a
part of this amazingexperience of just sensory sounds,
(01:36):
smells, all of the above.
And this place is absolutely gorgeous.
And it's really, it reallyputs a fire under me to, to create
when you're just walking inthe door and feeling the energy here
that you, you actually give to everyone.
So thank you so much.
Oh, thank you for being here.
Of course.
Excited to, excited to chat toyou today.
And it was an honor watchingyou win.
It was an honor watching thisgo down and kind of to be a part
(02:01):
of the first, the firstinaugural class, being the champion
of the first one.
I think you set the presidentfor everyone and it could have been
a better chef.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Very privileged brother.
Okay, so you started off whenmost kids were trying to figure out
what they wanted to do, youdecided that you want to jump into
a kitchen.
Like, instead of partying,instead of having fun as a normal
teenager.
(02:22):
Tell us a little bit about that.
So I'm from the UK and at 16,you have a choice to start in the
workforce or continueeducation at college.
So I dabbled at the collegepiece, but I couldn't find anything
that really excited me andsomething that I saw a career path
(02:42):
in.
I was a little bit of amischievous kid, to say the least.
And I got a job in the kitchenjust to get a job to, you know, make
amines.
And the kitchen immediatelywas an exciting place because as
a not so disciplined,mischievous teenager, the kitchen,
(03:03):
you have a deadline at noonfor lunch, you have a deadline at
6 for dinner, and no one'sgoing to tolerate nonsense.
So it was that discipline thatI needed.
Now on top of that, you havethis ability to be creative.
So I quickly saw all of thesethings that a, I needed and I desired,
like, I needed the disciplineand I desired the creativity.
(03:24):
And that was all in one place.
And you got to eat some greatfood along the way.
So I was, I was hooked.
And the kitchen that I steppedinto, Kensington Place, it was the
first place that I applied toand the.
They gave me a job right awayas a junior level chef.
So I was at the back peelingcarrots over the sink, watching everything
(03:46):
go down.
And that was exciting.
But I was looking at the teamlike, I could do that.
I think I could pick that up.
I could do that.
And after three months ofbeing there, I found out that it
was a pretty famous restaurantand the chef was a pretty famous
guy.
So I, you know, I'd obviouslycoincidentally, accidentally on purpose
maybe landed in a really good place.
(04:09):
And the chef at the time, thechef is called Rowling Lee and he's
a, he's a very well known chefin the uk and we were speaking about
education and learning the fundamentals.
And he said to me, look, youcan go to culinary school and you
should do that and you shoulddo the exams, but I'll teach the
curriculum throughout the year.
(04:29):
So I did get the educationrequired from culinary school, but
I learned that really hands onin the kitchen because I found at
that time, like one month inculinary school versus one month
in the kitchen, the amount Ilearned was far, far more.
And the chef Roli, he said tome, stay with me for three years
(04:52):
and you can go work anywherein the world.
So still being mischievousteenager after a year and a half,
I was like, chef, I've beenwith you for three years now.
I'm ready to move on.
And he was like, of course, ofcourse, of course.
But he's sort of, I think,found that rather amusing.
But that kitchen did lead toan opportunity to go work in Spain.
(05:14):
And I worked in Spain at theheight of the molecular gastronomy,
you know, El Bulli, Ferran,Adria, Paco Roncero, when that was
really at its peak.
And there I learned, you know,all the, all the fun tricks and techniques
that are almost sort ofclassic now because this is some
(05:36):
nearly 20 years ago, I'mshowing my age.
But so that was reallyinteresting because I went from like
a classic British kitchen to ahyper modern Spanish kitchen.
And I noticed some differences there.
I noticed that in the UK atthat time, it was all the restaurants
(05:59):
were from my perception, frommy seat at that time almost in silos
in the Spanish kitchens.
Everyone was working togetherand we did a dinner in the laboratory
of Paco Roncero.
I was the assistant one day,and it was for the Spanish Bacusdor
competitor.
And all the top chefs in Spainwere sat around that table in that
(06:23):
laboratory, and I was like,wow, everybody's here from all over
the country at the top oftheir game to support this guy who's
entered the book of store.
So it was a clear signimmediately that that whole country's
working together to rise toraise the level of gastronomy, and
which they've done and theydid very successfully.
(06:45):
So it's kind of inspiring tosee that it was.
No one was working in a silo.
Everyone was working togetherand proud to work together.
And that was an amazing experience.
Spain after, after all ofthat, after those few years there
where I still didn't masterSpanish, but I picked it up pretty
(07:06):
well.
Very well.
After a few beers, I movedback to the UK and I spent a long
time at the Dorchester Hotelunder some great chefs like Henry
Brosi, Brian Hewson, AlanDucasse, Jocelyn Hairland.
And there I really sort ofhoned my craft because I went from
(07:31):
ultra modern back to finedining, French cuisine, and back
to the fundamentals.
So I kind of like did itopposite what you would imagine you
should do traditionally, right?
Learn the fundamentals, masterthe fundamentals, and then you learn
all the tricks.
So I kind of did it in adifferent way, which again, again,
(07:56):
was amazing.
I spent six years there andafter, after, after sort of those.
There was lots of littlethings in between stages in Copenhagen,
Noma maybe, or Stage per se,whatever it was, I, a fat duck like
I, I peppered in lots ofextracurricular learning activities.
(08:17):
But those two marks andmoments in my career in Spain and
then in London with, with.
With the Dorchester Hotel andDucasse, those are the sort of the
anchors of, of my learning andmy career also working for the French.
I had the opportunity to go togo to France and work throughout
(08:40):
all the Ducasse restaurants inParis, the bistros, the Michelin
stars, and, and see all of that.
So, like, I was justconstantly learning and I was like
craving that knowledge, I guess.
So I always said, like myteens were, what am I doing here?
Figuring it out.
Okay, let's do it.
20s, extended apprenticeship.
(09:01):
And then in my 30s, I became,I became a chef.
And I think at that point intime I'd had enough knowledge in
lots of different areas ofgastronomy that to be able to put
together what my food lookslike, what, what is my repertoire.
And so that's what I've beenbuilding in my 30s.
(09:21):
Amazing.
Yeah.
Was your family involved in this?
Were they supportive of it ordid they want you to maybe take a
actual career path that wasn'tas rugged and wasn't so much about
relying on chance, you know,being in the right place, the right
time, so much as.
Whereas the kitchens cansometimes be, sometimes talent gets
(09:43):
overlooked because of nepotismor what have you.
Were they worried about that?
Well, I think, but at thatmoment in time in the uk, like it
was Gordon Ramsay boilingpoint that was emerging and still
being a chef was kind of like,I don't know if people thought that
(10:05):
was of very serious job or ajob that could really take you places,
because very few, very few didat that time.
But I think my family's alwaysbeen extremely supportive and most
likely happy that I'd foundsomething that I enjoy and that's
going to keep me out oftrouble and keep me focused.
So I think, you know, youcan't have everything and, and they
(10:26):
got that.
But no, they've been supersupportive throughout.
And we're all foodies like mygrandmother used to live in, in Menorca.
So we grew up going, exploringand chasing flavors around parts
of Spain.
And we've, we've all the wholefamily's into food, into good eating.
How about your peers when youdecided to make the career path where
(10:48):
you had to dedicate a lot oftime and effort into something.
Most 16, 17 year olds, they'reoff in the clouds doing whatever
they're doing.
Were your peers supportive ofyou or they kind of looked at you
as an outcast?
(11:47):
Well, I've always had a reallytight knit group of friends.
We've all, we, we've beenfriends really since like, we're,
you know, yay high.
So they've always been supportive.
This was, this gave them theopportunity to come to nice restaurants
and me to cook nice things athome and at parties.
But you did, I did miss a lot.
(12:10):
Like, you have to, you have toremember, like, people come to dinner,
to parties to celebrate, youknow, have those moments.
And so for us on the otherside of the, on the other side of
the pass, that means sometimesyou miss a birthday, you miss a celebration,
you miss a Christmas, whateverit may be.
(12:30):
And that's a sacrifice thatyou just need to make.
And, and if you fight it, it'sgoing to be difficult, it's going
to be challenging becausethere's no doubt you're going to
miss some of those moments.
Thankfully, everybody in mylife's always been fairly understanding,
or at least they tell me theyhave been.
But without a doubt, yeah,there's some things that I've missed
(12:52):
that I wish I hadn't, but Itry not to dwell on that and be grateful
for where I am.
And I think, like I saidbefore my 20s, from my extended apprenticeship,
like, you had to earn that.
It's not easy, you know, it's,it's, it doesn't come easy.
(13:13):
There's a, there's a lot, alot of hard work that goes into it.
A lot of sacrifice and seriousdedication to, to be able to get
to a level where you canoperate something like this.
And now with the custodians ofthis amazing Michelin star restaurant,
that's a huge responsibility.
Like, I wouldn't be able to dothat if I'd not taken it seriously.
(13:35):
Are you a father yet?
Not yet.
Not yet.
Gotcha.
So the reason I asked isbecause I found it very easy to compartmentalize,
you know, not working on mybirthday or relatives birthdays or
whatever it may be, but once Ihad children, it was harder and harder
for me to compartmentalize,like, oh, I'll just, you know, not
worry about a holiday knowingthat they're missing that holiday.
(13:55):
And, you know, that was thefondest thing about holidays is growing
up.
It's whimsical, you know.
Yeah.
And so that's another toughpart of chef's career, especially
someone in the caliber of your.
Where you're at, where it'sjust, you know, it's just.
So this is the reason I was asked.
Well, it's, it's a, it's agood point.
And no doubt I'll build a family.
My wife's probably soon, she'sgoing to say, but it's a, is, it
(14:20):
is a good point.
Like, and, you know, go backto the sort of the scary horror stories
you've seen in a kitchen ofpots and pans and screaming and shouting
and all that stuff.
Like, I think all of thosethings happen if you're not in real
control and panic.
And so someone that panicsisn't in control.
And I think in the, in ourindustry we've moved above and beyond
(14:43):
that.
We've got tons of knowledge,we've got tons of technology and
lots of things that can helpus be more organized, which should
result in us having a bit morefree time.
And like in, in our world,like our philosophy is education,
innovation.
So really I should be training.
And we are, we're trainingpeople to, to do that job because
(15:05):
there's a moment in time we'regonna have to pass the baton.
You know, if I walked out thedoor, if I wanted to go to a birthday
tomorrow, would the kitchenstill operate?
Yes, because we've trainedeverybody and groomed everybody to
be able to do that, and that'simportant to us.
Not so I can get a day off.
(15:26):
It's actually importantbecause we want to become educators
and teach people as good orbetter than we learn.
And if we're not doing that, then.
We'Re not building a legacy.
We're not building a legacy,or we're not building succession
plan or an alumni of greattalented chefs of the next generation
of chefs.
And they have to learn that itdoesn't come easy.
(15:46):
So, you know, you're going towork Christmas, mate, if you want
to get there.
Speaking of not coming easy, Iwas going to ask you, you know, you
mentioned that the industryhas evolved into not so much of,
I don't want to say chaos, butyet a chef being very verbal and
aggressive in some ways.
And I personally feel likethat really raised me and hardened
(16:09):
me in the kitchens, havingchefs that were that way.
I choose not to be that way.
I'm sure I have in the past,but I feel as though we're making
an evolution into softeningthe discipline, and it's harder to
find more people.
How do you feel about that?
So, yeah, have.
(16:29):
Have I. I've been through sometough, tough kitchens.
And that gives you thick skinand it keeps you on track.
It keeps you quick,disciplined, and all of those things.
But, you know, being at thetop, the pressure's real.
Like if.
If we are serving anovercooked piece of fish or a cold
(16:51):
steak, well, that guest isgoing to complain.
We are going to pay for theirbill, and that's going to hurt the
business.
They're not going to come back.
And that's the beginning ofthe end.
Right?
So you have to, you know, wehave to be firm but fair.
So we're not, like I saidabout control.
(17:11):
Like, we're in control.
There has to be a level ofrespect at all levels.
Like, I'm going to show up towork on time.
I'm going to.
I'm responsible for cookingthe fish.
A.
Have we taught them how to doit and have we reinforced that training
that's on us?
And now that person needs torealize that they've been given that
(17:32):
responsibility and they needto take it seriously, because if
they don't and the fish isovercooked or the fish is cold, and
the guest complains and theguests and we take care of their
bill.
Like, that's like all of thathard work for us to pay.
That doesn't make sense.
So are we like the olden daysof, you know.
(17:54):
No, we're not.
But you have to be disciplined.
You have to be, you have to befirm, because the real pressure is
maintaining the accolades thatwe've got is maintaining the, the
amazing food that we do andreally pleasing the guests.
That's keeping all of this alive.
And if, if, if, if thosethings are abused, then none of this
(18:18):
possible and it's all a bit silly.
True.
I'm sure the bills here aremore expensive than other builders,
kind of transitioning in for alittle bit of that.
But it's like, you know, everychef has a night that nearly broke
them.
The chaos, the burn.
We also live off of that.
We thrive off of that.
But at the same time, that's.
Brother, have you had, youknow, can you tell us one of those
stories or many, many stories?
(18:39):
I'm sure.
But how is that, that time inyour lifetime where you, you felt
that you were going to give up?
What inspired you to keep going?
Well, there's been many times,many times, and I'm sure there's.
I'm sure there's going to be afew more.
But again, if you let thatnegative control your thoughts, I
(19:06):
don't think you're able tomake progress.
If you're able to stop andsay, wow, that mistake is actually
an opportunity.
It's a learning opportunityfor myself and for the team.
We acknowledge that.
So at the end of every shift,there's a debrief and then the debrief.
It's okay, what went wrong?
How can we do that better?
And that's a team effortbecause we are a team.
It's not an individual.
(19:59):
It's a team effort.
Tomorrow we're not going tomake that mistake again.
We're not going to make thatmistake again in the future.
And, and then we, we overcomethose sort of things.
And they're, they're endlessbecause you get to this point of
perfection where you'rechasing perfection or in pursuit
of perfection.
And so you're, you start beingreally focused on these details that
(20:22):
you would say, that's insanity.
But for us, it's like we'rejust constantly trying to find areas
of improvement.
But, yeah, bad services hadthem try, try and avoid them.
And it's always like, how canyou avoid them?
Well, better recipes, bettertraining, better reps, whatever it
(20:44):
may be, there's There's.
There's always reflection thatcan help us avoid that problem in
the future.
At this caliber of performing,what do you say resonates more?
You know, obviously, anyonecan be a great cook, but they can't
be, you know, a chief in thebrigade system is the chef.
He is the more of a leader of anything.
(21:05):
At the end of the day, he maynot do any cooking at this point
in his career.
What do you say is morevaluable at this echelon?
Is it being the leader or isit being.
Being the talented cook?
I. I think it's being theleader and visionary because there's.
In our restaurant, and I'msure many operate like this, but
(21:29):
this is something that we'vecome to terms with that or come to
realize is there's fourpillars to success, right?
You can't do the food withoutthe wine.
You can't do the wine withoutthe food.
Nothing's going to happenwithout the service.
And then all of this isimportant to have a great ambiance.
So food, service, beverage,and ambiance.
(21:50):
So the kitchen team is workingwith a bigger team to make sure that
this is all.
All happening.
And.
And, yeah, we just focus onimproving those areas the whole time,
really.
Answer say, we already askedthat one.
(22:12):
You don't expect that anyway.
100% of it, you knew that.
But I'm just.
You've answered so manyquestions already.
Kind of got to go through your list.
Yeah.
So traveling has a way ofhumbling chefs.
What country or kitchen taughtyou that you didn't know as much
as you thought you did?
(22:33):
So travel.
This is an amazing job for travel.
And one of the best ways toexperience a culture is through the
food.
So when we go traveling, whichI've been blessed to, you know, see
(22:55):
all corners of the globe, I'mgoing for food, and we're going to
explore new things and new techniques.
And that moment in Spain, youknow, when I was on the line, I was
with guy from Denmark, guyfrom the States, guy from Hong Kong,
guy from Australia, girl fromGermany, whatever.
(23:16):
The.
The whole team there was fromall over the world, because they.
There was a moment in time togo and absorb this new molecular
astronomy and learn those things.
So I made friends from allover the world after that.
It's okay, I'm in Hong Kong.
Hey, I'll call my buddy up there.
Or, hey, I'm in Australia.
(23:36):
So not only has travel beenfun, but I've got.
I've got friends all over theworld, and we're communicating the
Whole time and exchanging.
And then when I go and visitthese places, they show you around
and you get to see it from adifferent lens because it's not from
the tourist book, it's fromthe local.
So I've been really blessed.
(23:57):
See some awesome places andpeculiar places.
Sure.
We were in Kazakhstan lastyear that we tried some interesting
food there.
Or Sri Lanka had some amazingcuisine, very unfamiliar.
You go to Australia, it's alittle bit more familiar.
Right.
So, yeah, travel awesome.
And you learn something.
I learn something every time Igo, whether that's new ingredient
(24:20):
or a new technique or a newflavor or, oh, I didn't think that
could go with that.
But it does.
And then you bring that backto your restaurant, and it's like,
okay, well, maybe this notefrom Japan is going to work with
this note from Canada.
I don't know.
I'm just saying it out loud.
And that's where you come upwith these interesting flavor combinations
which, without experiencingit, you may not, you know, you may
(24:44):
not have found.
And rather than experiencesomeone else's version of it, you're
actually getting it from thehorse's mouth, per se.
Exactly.
And that's why, you know,someone's asked, well, why are all
these different techniques andflavors on the menu?
And it's like, well, because Ilive them.
I haven't picked up a book andbe like, that might go well with
(25:05):
that.
No, it's like, there's areason why.
And that's captured through travel.
At what point in your careerdid the menu start becoming a testimonial
of your experiences?
Really good question.
And I think as we're speakingnow, it's a story that, you know,
we could.
We could do a better job attelling, I think.
(25:28):
Or we should film the documentary.
I do.
Hear, hear if the food scenehere is conversation.
What are you trying to saythat no one else has heard yet?
Well, Atlanta is an amazingculinary destination, you know, so
(25:52):
much so that it's recognizednow by the Michelin guide.
Atlanta has been so welcomingto me, and the food scene here is
awesome.
Like, you can, again, you cantaste all corners of the globe here.
And then you can really tasteand see some amazing Southern.
You know, Southern chefs hereare doing some great stuff.
(26:13):
The farmers are awesome.
But, you know, it's.
When you start taking a deepdive into it, it's wildly impressive.
So, you know, I'm going to dowhat I'm doing in this culinary landscape
is.
Is what's true to me.
And like I said, through myexperiences over the globe and utilizing
(26:35):
the amazing ingredients thatwe have on our doorstep here in Atlanta
is how, you know, how I'm, howI'm doing my part in regards to like
the bigger mission, liketraining and educating the chefs
in our team is like the utmostimportance to us.
Like we have to train them asgood or better than we were taught.
(26:58):
And, and that's something thatwe're really proud of here and going
to continue to do.
Speaking of the staff that youtrain, are they from all over the
world or they're primarilyhere, Atlanta based now.
Now we have around 50 on ourteam in the back.
And a couple years ago we setup an intern and externship program.
(27:18):
So we have, we have our core team.
Amazing.
From mostly all over thecountry since our Michelin star.
It's awesome to see how muchattention we're getting.
It's like, wow, you've heardof us.
And it's quite humbling.
But we do have an externshipinternship program which brings in
(27:40):
students from all over the world.
So we have about 14 studentsat any one time, some from the Culinary
Institute of America and then.
And some from all corners ofthe globe.
And again, very humbling.
Like they chose us and it wasan interesting process because we
had to write, I had to write acurriculum for the year which basically
when they decide to do aninternship with us, it takes them
(28:04):
through all the fundamentalsof the kitchen, whether it's bakery,
fish, butchery, butchery,cooking, plating, you name it.
Like they, they get to seethat in, in the 12 months that they're
here.
So it's a, it's a basically a12 month internship.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
I was, I was privileged enoughto do what in Minneapolis?
Have a one year ACFapprenticeship and live in the hotel.
(28:26):
So I don't know if these guysget to live in a hotel, but this
place is way nicer than them.
Hilton was.
But so do you find to anyaspiring chefs out there or really
people that are chefs as of now?
Did you find that, forinstance, once you got to the Michelin
plateau.
Not plateau, should I say, youknow, keep on going.
(28:48):
But Michelin level.
Once you got to the Michelinlevel, do you find that the checkbooks
open up from food and beverage directors?
Do you find that you're ableto be way more creative or have,
have more carte blanc than youwould normally if it was the process
of getting there?
Yeah, I would say so.
(29:10):
And naturally speaking, you would.
But I just do.
A lot of time people feeltrapped within a budget and within
their creative realm.
But once you get to apinnacle, it's like, and you get
to do whatever you want to door, you.
Know, restaurant business istough business.
We're privileged to be busy.
So that keeps us, keeps us on track.
(29:31):
And you know, the food'sflowing through the kitchen.
The, there's.
If you have a quietrestaurant, it's, it's tougher to
manage.
You've got waste to think about.
You've got.
Well, we always have ways tothink about, but you have to really
have your finger on the, onthe pulse day to day.
And it's a scary place to be.
But we're fortunate enough tobe, to be very busy.
(29:54):
So that's down to our greatguests and our team that's creating
great experiences and great food.
What is the way to get areservation these days?
We've got a 10 month wait list.
Wow.
I'm joking.
We don't.
After I sign you, I believeyou too.
I mean, no, we Release ourreservations 60 days in advance and,
(30:19):
and we're busy.
So you know, we've got anamazing tasting seven days a week.
Five days a week.
Five days a week in Atlas.
And you know, that's sayingworth touching on five days a week
is a great place for us to bebecause we have, we have an A team.
We don't have two teams.
Seven days a week would put usin a situation where we may be a
(30:42):
little bit more volatilebecause we have an A team and A and
a B team, for lack of a better term.
But we have one solid team.
So everybody's knows theirresponsibilities is really consistent
in that sense.
We can control our purchasing,we can control our prep, control
our guest experience.
So yeah, one A team is, is my preference.
(31:04):
How many people are in thekitchen during service?
All 50 or.
No, no, no.
So we go to a prep team.
Prep team comes in 8am we'lldo team meeting at 8, talk about
the events that are comingout, talking about what's coming
in, what fish is arriving andall of that jazz.
And then the teams are dividedup into, you know, their specialities.
(31:28):
And then the evening team willcome in around two and get ready
for dinner.
And that hour there's a good exchange.
3 o', clock, family meal, 4:30pre shift.
Like the day is very regimented.
And then when you look intothose teams, their days are very
regimented with their preplists, with their recipes, with their.
So there's, there's a methodto the madness and it all comes together
(31:51):
nicely.
But you know, it's all down toorganization and planning, which
16 years old was not my forte,but now it's like of the utmost importance
that it is super, super organized.
When you mentioned, you know,what fish is coming in, where are
you sourcing from?
All over the world.
(32:11):
Are you trying to keep itlocal or.
Well, in vegetables.
Vegetables are all local.
And we work with some amazing farms.
And I went to them.
It's a program that took alittle while to get to, but effectively
went to them and said, this iswhat historically we've purchased
and this is what we'vequantity wise and so forth.
(32:34):
What can you grow for us?
And in turn, they've been ableto take on about 60 to 70% of that,
which is amazing.
So vegetables, hyper local,fish, meat.
Again, depending on what's best.
Market's best can come fromvarious places, but we're super focused
(32:55):
on quality.
Fresh is best.
So fine dining.
Looks, tastes, smells, seems elegant.
Explain the back of the housein the organizing of the chaos.
Yeah, I thrive off creativity.
So the dishes and the processin which we take to design those
(33:16):
dishes is very detailed.
And it starts with the formatof our menu.
We start with a caviar dish,then a vegetable dish, then a egg
or a pasta, shellfish,poultry, beef.
And anyway, there's.
There's a framework to how westructure that menu.
And then when you take thenext step is what techniques are
(33:40):
using throughout those dishes,what temperatures using throughout
those dishes, what colors areusing throughout those dishes and
so forth.
And then it becomes reallycomplicated because everything has
to have its unique point ofdifference, as I say, so everything
has to be completely different.
So I have this, like I said,it's almost to the point of insanity,
(34:01):
this matrix, which, you know,we'll talk about the ingredients,
we'll talk about the color,the plate, the cutlery, the temperature,
the technique, you name it,it's on there.
And so we can cross referenceto make sure that there's nothing
the same.
So each dish delivers a very,very unique experience and has its
own voice.
(34:22):
And this is seasonal, Craig?
Yes, it's a lot of work.
Um, and, you know, we want tocreate a moment where there's, you
know, there's a. Wow.
Um, at the beginning of themenu with our snacks, there's a lot
of fun techniques, and I thinkthere's a lot of influence from time
in Spain with a burst here orsomething that dissolves fun textures
(34:46):
and so forth.
But again, a little journey oftechniques throughout my career.
And we have that at the end ofthe meal as well.
And Then in the middle, what Ilearned with working at the Dorchester
with Ducasse is don't forgetthey came to eat.
So, you know, if it's a pieceof turbot with a beautiful sauce
(35:07):
and a perfectly cookedvegetable, like, there's nothing
wrong with that.
That's what it's about.
So we don't want to drift toofar away from the truth.
And there won't be a thousandthings going on with a thousand different,
you know, smoke and bubbles onone plate, because it's about great
ingredients, great producemarried together with the brilliant
(35:28):
sauce as the main part of the meal.
We can have fun left and rightwith these snacks and introduce fun
techniques, but thosetechniques need to have their own
voice.
And when you put them all onone place, it kind of gets.
It gets lost.
Are you at the point now whereyou were actually giving an homage
to some of your mentors on the menu?
(35:49):
Not so much.
Maybe a technique, andobviously it's always an homage to
your training and who.
Who mentored you.
But specific dishes are there.
You know, their names behindspecific dishes.
Now, at this point, I thinkthere is.
There is definitely sometechniques that.
That I can give a shout outto, to, you know, a great chef that's.
(36:13):
That's taught us that we'llput our own spin on it.
There's a dessert from AlanDucasse, the Rum Barber, which is
a soap sponge, Chantillycream, and a rum of your choice.
It's so simple, but it's mastery.
So we'll do that.
(36:35):
And that's a little nod to theboss at a point.
But, yeah, throughout yourcareer, yeah, you pick up tips and
tricks from lots of people andlots of mentors or friends or restaurants
or colleagues.
And.
And yes, those will sometimesmake their way in, for sure.
Do you ever look at a dish andthink, I've gone too far, or maybe
(36:56):
I need to slow things down andnot be so uber creative and maybe
just give people a great mealdining experience.
You know, make maybe sayingeverything doesn't have to be one
or two bites.
Maybe let me give them a heavydish or a full ensemble of multiple
proteins or something on a dish.
(37:16):
Well, you know, I'm lucky that.
That I oversee a few concepts.
So.
Atlas on Michelin StarRestaurant Garden Room Nami.
So.
And our restaurant group has areally broad portfolio of concepts,
so I can, you know, releasethat creative energy and in various
places.
(37:37):
But, yeah, I just go back to,don't forget, they came to eat.
So when Chef Nick called yourname at the US Culinary Open, were
the first people you thoughtof, the people that supported you
to get to that point, or wasit the people who didn't support
you?
Yeah, I was in shock.
It was an amazing moment.
And it was.
(37:59):
Yeah.
So obviously it's a huge honorand so grateful and humbled by it.
Yeah.
I think the supporters.
I worked for a.
When I was taking on a job inthe past, I had a few people come
to me and they were like,don't go and work there.
(38:19):
It's a nightmare.
It's so difficult.
You're going to work allhours, and the chef's not a pleasant
person.
Anyway, I did it.
I didn't listen to any of them.
And what I realized was thechef was difficult, but he had standards,
and everybody that wascomplaining failed.
(38:40):
So it was an eye opener to methat I shouldn't listen to that because
they weren't successful.
Their reaction is to apply andblame or deflect maybe.
Yeah.
So as a result of them notbeing successful, the, you know,
the instinct is to try andburn the house down.
(39:02):
But my perspective was, wascompletely different.
It was.
I won't name them, but amazingchef, amazing restaurant.
And if you worked hard, youwould learn an awful lot.
Yeah.
If you jerked off and, or ifyou didn't take it seriously, you
weren't going to be successful.
So back to your question.
(39:23):
If there is.
Yeah.
Am I, am I tough?
Yes.
But I'm tough about thestandards and tough about getting
it right for our guests.
And, and I've tried.
We try and do that in the mostinspirational way possible, and we're
lucky to have such an amazingteam that appreciates that.
But you also, when you, whenyou come to a restaurant of that
(39:47):
standard, like any sportsteam, you have to, you have to be
able to play, otherwise you'renot on the team.
So once you get to a pointwhere you get so many awards, I think
people don't realize how hardit is to get to that point.
They see the shine, they seethe glamour, they see the bright
lights.
But what do you have to telleveryone, especially aspiring chefs,
about the dedication and hardwork it takes to get to a point of
(40:10):
a Michelin star and to win acompetition like the US Culinary
Open?
I've been in the kitchen forover 20 years now, and you can't
rush it.
You have to learn the fundamentals.
You have to learn the foundations.
And these building blocks willallow you to, you know, be creative.
(40:32):
But, you know, it'sinteresting because let's say I fast
forward and became a chef withvery Little experience.
Well, I'm setting myself upfor failure because I can't answer
all the questions that my teamis going to ask me.
I can't train.
I don't have a big repertoire.
I did a private chef job, youknow, in my 20s, and I quickly realized
(40:56):
after a week of doingbreakfast, lunch, and dinner, I had
no more recipes to cook, andthey wanted something different every
day.
I was like.
So I've been through a lot ofmoments throughout my career that.
That.
That have made sense to keepgoing and keep learning.
Now, you can never stoplearning in the kitchen because,
you know, gastronomy is that,you know, like we spoke about over
(41:19):
earlier, you know, there's somany different kinds of cuisine in
this world.
Like, where do you stop?
So that's why, like, for me,it's been important to understand
the kind of food that.
That I want to serve and thenrefine that repertoire there.
But to young chefs, yeah, there's.
There's so much to learn, andyou can't rush it.
(41:40):
And those building blocks arereally important, because once you've
learned the skills and thetechniques, then you need to learn
about the food cost and thescheduling and all the other things
that come with it.
And it's really important aswell that the team below you are
able to learn from you.
So if you've rushed that, youwon't be able to teach, because that's
(42:03):
really what it is that we'redoing here.
We're teaching, and we're training.
I'm not cooking the fish every night.
That's knowledge that's beenhanded down and trained to those
guys and girls.
We're designing.
We're the architects now, andorchestrating how it all happens.
But I can't do any of that.
Had I not lived it and then,and had I rushed it, we definitely
(42:25):
wouldn't be here today.
So don't rush it.
When your career is over andyou decide to retire, do you want
people to remember you for theawards and accolades you gained or
for the scars and burns thatyou received?
I think a little bit of both.
You know, I like to get.
(42:47):
I'm a worker.
I'm.
I don't forget where I camefrom, and I'm extremely humbled to
have won some amazing accolades.
But I still think there's waysto go and there's room to grow, and
I learned that through the graft.
(43:09):
I'm not afraid to roll up mysleeves and work, and I don't think
that's ever gonna not be thecase, because, again, they came to
eat.
I'm a chef.
Let's not drift too far awayfrom the truth here.
I'd love to be known as a.
As a.
(43:29):
As a good leader and a mentor.
And it's interesting to seehow, like, as you get older, that
kind of starts to happen naturally.
But what.
What drives me is the.
That education and innovationevery day.
Chef, we appreciate the timeyou spent with us.
Let's go ahead and get youinaugurated as the 2025 U.S. culinary
(43:50):
Open champion.
Thank you.
You've just stepped inside theWalk and Talk podcast, number one
in the nation for food lovers,chefs and storytellers.
I'm Carl Fiordini, your host,shining a light on the flavor, the
hustle, and the heart of the industry.
We're the official podcast forthe New York, California and Florida
restaurant shows, the PizzaTomorrow Summit, the US Culinary
Open at nafm, and the NorthAmerican media platform for the Burnt
(00:53):
Chef project, recorded at IbisImages Studios where food photography
comes alive and I get thefirst bite.
Find out moreinfo@thewalkandtalk.com rolling.
Quiet on set.
Team Walk and Talk Media ishere at Michelin rated Atlas in Atlanta.
Oh, my goodness.
(01:13):
So Putra Vera will beinterviewing chef Freddie Money,
winner of the US culinary open 2025.
This is the ring ceremony.
This is badass chef wa.
Welcome and thank you for thisinvitation to come here and be a
part of this amazingexperience of just sensory sounds,
(01:36):
smells, all of the above.
And this place is absolutely gorgeous.
And it's really, it reallyputs a fire under me to, to create
when you're just walking inthe door and feeling the energy here
that you, you actually give to everyone.
So thank you so much.
Oh, thank you for being here.
Of course.
Excited to, excited to chat toyou today.
And it was an honor watchingyou win.
It was an honor watching thisgo down and kind of to be a part
(02:01):
of the first, the firstinaugural class, being the champion
of the first one.
I think you set the presidentfor everyone and it could have been
a better chef.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Very privileged brother.
Okay, so you started off whenmost kids were trying to figure out
what they wanted to do, youdecided that you want to jump into
a kitchen.
Like, instead of partying,instead of having fun as a normal
teenager.
(02:22):
Tell us a little bit about that.
So I'm from the UK and at 16,you have a choice to start in the
workforce or continueeducation at college.
So I dabbled at the collegepiece, but I couldn't find anything
that really excited me andsomething that I saw a career path
(02:42):
in.
I was a little bit of amischievous kid, to say the least.
And I got a job in the kitchenjust to get a job to, you know, make
amines.
And the kitchen immediatelywas an exciting place because as
a not so disciplined,mischievous teenager, the kitchen,
(03:03):
you have a deadline at noonfor lunch, you have a deadline at
6 for dinner, and no one'sgoing to tolerate nonsense.
So it was that discipline thatI needed.
Now on top of that, you havethis ability to be creative.
So I quickly saw all of thesethings that a, I needed and I desired,
like, I needed the disciplineand I desired the creativity.
(03:24):
And that was all in one place.
And you got to eat some greatfood along the way.
So I was, I was hooked.
And the kitchen that I steppedinto, Kensington Place, it was the
first place that I applied toand the.
They gave me a job right awayas a junior level chef.
So I was at the back peelingcarrots over the sink, watching everything
(03:46):
go down.
And that was exciting.
But I was looking at the teamlike, I could do that.
I think I could pick that up.
I could do that.
And after three months ofbeing there, I found out that it
was a pretty famous restaurantand the chef was a pretty famous
guy.
So I, you know, I'd obviouslycoincidentally, accidentally on purpose
maybe landed in a really good place.
(04:09):
And the chef at the time, thechef is called Rowling Lee and he's
a, he's a very well known chefin the uk and we were speaking about
education and learning the fundamentals.
And he said to me, look, youcan go to culinary school and you
should do that and you shoulddo the exams, but I'll teach the
curriculum throughout the year.
(04:29):
So I did get the educationrequired from culinary school, but
I learned that really hands onin the kitchen because I found at
that time, like one month inculinary school versus one month
in the kitchen, the amount Ilearned was far, far more.
And the chef Roli, he said tome, stay with me for three years
(04:52):
and you can go work anywherein the world.
So still being mischievousteenager after a year and a half,
I was like, chef, I've beenwith you for three years now.
I'm ready to move on.
And he was like, of course, ofcourse, of course.
But he's sort of, I think,found that rather amusing.
But that kitchen did lead toan opportunity to go work in Spain.
(05:14):
And I worked in Spain at theheight of the molecular gastronomy,
you know, El Bulli, Ferran,Adria, Paco Roncero, when that was
really at its peak.
And there I learned, you know,all the, all the fun tricks and techniques
that are almost sort ofclassic now because this is some
(05:36):
nearly 20 years ago, I'mshowing my age.
But so that was reallyinteresting because I went from like
a classic British kitchen to ahyper modern Spanish kitchen.
And I noticed some differences there.
I noticed that in the UK atthat time, it was all the restaurants
(05:59):
were from my perception, frommy seat at that time almost in silos
in the Spanish kitchens.
Everyone was working togetherand we did a dinner in the laboratory
of Paco Roncero.
I was the assistant one day,and it was for the Spanish Bacusdor
competitor.
And all the top chefs in Spainwere sat around that table in that
(06:23):
laboratory, and I was like,wow, everybody's here from all over
the country at the top oftheir game to support this guy who's
entered the book of store.
So it was a clear signimmediately that that whole country's
working together to rise toraise the level of gastronomy, and
which they've done and theydid very successfully.
(06:45):
So it's kind of inspiring tosee that it was.
No one was working in a silo.
Everyone was working togetherand proud to work together.
And that was an amazing experience.
Spain after, after all ofthat, after those few years there
where I still didn't masterSpanish, but I picked it up pretty
(07:06):
well.
Very well.
After a few beers, I movedback to the UK and I spent a long
time at the Dorchester Hotelunder some great chefs like Henry
Brosi, Brian Hewson, AlanDucasse, Jocelyn Hairland.
And there I really sort ofhoned my craft because I went from
(07:31):
ultra modern back to finedining, French cuisine, and back
to the fundamentals.
So I kind of like did itopposite what you would imagine you
should do traditionally, right?
Learn the fundamentals, masterthe fundamentals, and then you learn
all the tricks.
So I kind of did it in adifferent way, which again, again,
(07:56):
was amazing.
I spent six years there andafter, after, after sort of those.
There was lots of littlethings in between stages in Copenhagen,
Noma maybe, or Stage per se,whatever it was, I, a fat duck like
I, I peppered in lots ofextracurricular learning activities.
(08:17):
But those two marks andmoments in my career in Spain and
then in London with, with.
With the Dorchester Hotel andDucasse, those are the sort of the
anchors of, of my learning andmy career also working for the French.
I had the opportunity to go togo to France and work throughout
(08:40):
all the Ducasse restaurants inParis, the bistros, the Michelin
stars, and, and see all of that.
So, like, I was justconstantly learning and I was like
craving that knowledge, I guess.
So I always said, like myteens were, what am I doing here?
Figuring it out.
Okay, let's do it.
20s, extended apprenticeship.
(09:01):
And then in my 30s, I became,I became a chef.
And I think at that point intime I'd had enough knowledge in
lots of different areas ofgastronomy that to be able to put
together what my food lookslike, what, what is my repertoire.
And so that's what I've beenbuilding in my 30s.
(09:21):
Amazing.
Yeah.
Was your family involved in this?
Were they supportive of it ordid they want you to maybe take a
actual career path that wasn'tas rugged and wasn't so much about
relying on chance, you know,being in the right place, the right
time, so much as.
Whereas the kitchens cansometimes be, sometimes talent gets
(09:43):
overlooked because of nepotismor what have you.
Were they worried about that?
Well, I think, but at thatmoment in time in the uk, like it
was Gordon Ramsay boilingpoint that was emerging and still
being a chef was kind of like,I don't know if people thought that
(10:05):
was of very serious job or ajob that could really take you places,
because very few, very few didat that time.
But I think my family's alwaysbeen extremely supportive and most
likely happy that I'd foundsomething that I enjoy and that's
going to keep me out oftrouble and keep me focused.
So I think, you know, youcan't have everything and, and they
(10:26):
got that.
But no, they've been supersupportive throughout.
And we're all foodies like mygrandmother used to live in, in Menorca.
So we grew up going, exploringand chasing flavors around parts
of Spain.
And we've, we've all the wholefamily's into food, into good eating.
How about your peers when youdecided to make the career path where
(10:48):
you had to dedicate a lot oftime and effort into something.
Most 16, 17 year olds, they'reoff in the clouds doing whatever
they're doing.
Were your peers supportive ofyou or they kind of looked at you
as an outcast?
(11:47):
Well, I've always had a reallytight knit group of friends.
We've all, we, we've beenfriends really since like, we're,
you know, yay high.
So they've always been supportive.
This was, this gave them theopportunity to come to nice restaurants
and me to cook nice things athome and at parties.
But you did, I did miss a lot.
(12:10):
Like, you have to, you have toremember, like, people come to dinner,
to parties to celebrate, youknow, have those moments.
And so for us on the otherside of the, on the other side of
the pass, that means sometimesyou miss a birthday, you miss a celebration,
you miss a Christmas, whateverit may be.
(12:30):
And that's a sacrifice thatyou just need to make.
And, and if you fight it, it'sgoing to be difficult, it's going
to be challenging becausethere's no doubt you're going to
miss some of those moments.
Thankfully, everybody in mylife's always been fairly understanding,
or at least they tell me theyhave been.
But without a doubt, yeah,there's some things that I've missed
(12:52):
that I wish I hadn't, but Itry not to dwell on that and be grateful
for where I am.
And I think, like I saidbefore my 20s, from my extended apprenticeship,
like, you had to earn that.
It's not easy, you know, it's,it's, it doesn't come easy.
(13:13):
There's a, there's a lot, alot of hard work that goes into it.
A lot of sacrifice and seriousdedication to, to be able to get
to a level where you canoperate something like this.
And now with the custodians ofthis amazing Michelin star restaurant,
that's a huge responsibility.
Like, I wouldn't be able to dothat if I'd not taken it seriously.
(13:35):
Are you a father yet?
Not yet.
Not yet.
Gotcha.
So the reason I asked isbecause I found it very easy to compartmentalize,
you know, not working on mybirthday or relatives birthdays or
whatever it may be, but once Ihad children, it was harder and harder
for me to compartmentalize,like, oh, I'll just, you know, not
worry about a holiday knowingthat they're missing that holiday.
(13:55):
And, you know, that was thefondest thing about holidays is growing
up.
It's whimsical, you know.
Yeah.
And so that's another toughpart of chef's career, especially
someone in the caliber of your.
Where you're at, where it'sjust, you know, it's just.
So this is the reason I was asked.
Well, it's, it's a, it's agood point.
And no doubt I'll build a family.
My wife's probably soon, she'sgoing to say, but it's a, is, it
(14:20):
is a good point.
Like, and, you know, go backto the sort of the scary horror stories
you've seen in a kitchen ofpots and pans and screaming and shouting
and all that stuff.
Like, I think all of thosethings happen if you're not in real
control and panic.
And so someone that panicsisn't in control.
And I think in the, in ourindustry we've moved above and beyond
(14:43):
that.
We've got tons of knowledge,we've got tons of technology and
lots of things that can helpus be more organized, which should
result in us having a bit morefree time.
And like in, in our world,like our philosophy is education,
innovation.
So really I should be training.
And we are, we're trainingpeople to, to do that job because
(15:05):
there's a moment in time we'regonna have to pass the baton.
You know, if I walked out thedoor, if I wanted to go to a birthday
tomorrow, would the kitchenstill operate?
Yes, because we've trainedeverybody and groomed everybody to
be able to do that, and that'simportant to us.
Not so I can get a day off.
(15:26):
It's actually importantbecause we want to become educators
and teach people as good orbetter than we learn.
And if we're not doing that, then.
We'Re not building a legacy.
We're not building a legacy,or we're not building succession
plan or an alumni of greattalented chefs of the next generation
of chefs.
And they have to learn that itdoesn't come easy.
(15:46):
So, you know, you're going towork Christmas, mate, if you want
to get there.
Speaking of not coming easy, Iwas going to ask you, you know, you
mentioned that the industryhas evolved into not so much of,
I don't want to say chaos, butyet a chef being very verbal and
aggressive in some ways.
And I personally feel likethat really raised me and hardened
(16:09):
me in the kitchens, havingchefs that were that way.
I choose not to be that way.
I'm sure I have in the past,but I feel as though we're making
an evolution into softeningthe discipline, and it's harder to
find more people.
How do you feel about that?
So, yeah, have.
(16:29):
Have I. I've been through sometough, tough kitchens.
And that gives you thick skinand it keeps you on track.
It keeps you quick,disciplined, and all of those things.
But, you know, being at thetop, the pressure's real.
Like if.
If we are serving anovercooked piece of fish or a cold
(16:51):
steak, well, that guest isgoing to complain.
We are going to pay for theirbill, and that's going to hurt the
business.
They're not going to come back.
And that's the beginning ofthe end.
Right?
So you have to, you know, wehave to be firm but fair.
So we're not, like I saidabout control.
(17:11):
Like, we're in control.
There has to be a level ofrespect at all levels.
Like, I'm going to show up towork on time.
I'm going to.
I'm responsible for cookingthe fish.
A.
Have we taught them how to doit and have we reinforced that training
that's on us?
And now that person needs torealize that they've been given that
(17:32):
responsibility and they needto take it seriously, because if
they don't and the fish isovercooked or the fish is cold, and
the guest complains and theguests and we take care of their
bill.
Like, that's like all of thathard work for us to pay.
That doesn't make sense.
So are we like the olden daysof, you know.
(17:54):
No, we're not.
But you have to be disciplined.
You have to be, you have to befirm, because the real pressure is
maintaining the accolades thatwe've got is maintaining the, the
amazing food that we do andreally pleasing the guests.
That's keeping all of this alive.
And if, if, if, if thosethings are abused, then none of this
(18:18):
possible and it's all a bit silly.
True.
I'm sure the bills here aremore expensive than other builders,
kind of transitioning in for alittle bit of that.
But it's like, you know, everychef has a night that nearly broke
them.
The chaos, the burn.
We also live off of that.
We thrive off of that.
But at the same time, that's.
Brother, have you had, youknow, can you tell us one of those
stories or many, many stories?
(18:39):
I'm sure.
But how is that, that time inyour lifetime where you, you felt
that you were going to give up?
What inspired you to keep going?
Well, there's been many times,many times, and I'm sure there's.
I'm sure there's going to be afew more.
But again, if you let thatnegative control your thoughts, I
(19:06):
don't think you're able tomake progress.
If you're able to stop andsay, wow, that mistake is actually
an opportunity.
It's a learning opportunityfor myself and for the team.
We acknowledge that.
So at the end of every shift,there's a debrief and then the debrief.
It's okay, what went wrong?
How can we do that better?
And that's a team effortbecause we are a team.
It's not an individual.
(19:59):
It's a team effort.
Tomorrow we're not going tomake that mistake again.
We're not going to make thatmistake again in the future.
And, and then we, we overcomethose sort of things.
And they're, they're endlessbecause you get to this point of
perfection where you'rechasing perfection or in pursuit
of perfection.
And so you're, you start beingreally focused on these details that
(20:22):
you would say, that's insanity.
But for us, it's like we'rejust constantly trying to find areas
of improvement.
But, yeah, bad services hadthem try, try and avoid them.
And it's always like, how canyou avoid them?
Well, better recipes, bettertraining, better reps, whatever it
(20:44):
may be, there's There's.
There's always reflection thatcan help us avoid that problem in
the future.
At this caliber of performing,what do you say resonates more?
You know, obviously, anyonecan be a great cook, but they can't
be, you know, a chief in thebrigade system is the chef.
He is the more of a leader of anything.
(21:05):
At the end of the day, he maynot do any cooking at this point
in his career.
What do you say is morevaluable at this echelon?
Is it being the leader or isit being.
Being the talented cook?
I. I think it's being theleader and visionary because there's.
In our restaurant, and I'msure many operate like this, but
(21:29):
this is something that we'vecome to terms with that or come to
realize is there's fourpillars to success, right?
You can't do the food withoutthe wine.
You can't do the wine withoutthe food.
Nothing's going to happenwithout the service.
And then all of this isimportant to have a great ambiance.
So food, service, beverage,and ambiance.
(21:50):
So the kitchen team is workingwith a bigger team to make sure that
this is all.
All happening.
And.
And, yeah, we just focus onimproving those areas the whole time,
really.
Answer say, we already askedthat one.
(22:12):
You don't expect that anyway.
100% of it, you knew that.
But I'm just.
You've answered so manyquestions already.
Kind of got to go through your list.
Yeah.
So traveling has a way ofhumbling chefs.
What country or kitchen taughtyou that you didn't know as much
as you thought you did?
(22:33):
So travel.
This is an amazing job for travel.
And one of the best ways toexperience a culture is through the
food.
So when we go traveling, whichI've been blessed to, you know, see
(22:55):
all corners of the globe, I'mgoing for food, and we're going to
explore new things and new techniques.
And that moment in Spain, youknow, when I was on the line, I was
with guy from Denmark, guyfrom the States, guy from Hong Kong,
guy from Australia, girl fromGermany, whatever.
(23:16):
The.
The whole team there was fromall over the world, because they.
There was a moment in time togo and absorb this new molecular
astronomy and learn those things.
So I made friends from allover the world after that.
It's okay, I'm in Hong Kong.
Hey, I'll call my buddy up there.
Or, hey, I'm in Australia.
(23:36):
So not only has travel beenfun, but I've got.
I've got friends all over theworld, and we're communicating the
Whole time and exchanging.
And then when I go and visitthese places, they show you around
and you get to see it from adifferent lens because it's not from
the tourist book, it's fromthe local.
So I've been really blessed.
(23:57):
See some awesome places andpeculiar places.
Sure.
We were in Kazakhstan lastyear that we tried some interesting
food there.
Or Sri Lanka had some amazingcuisine, very unfamiliar.
You go to Australia, it's alittle bit more familiar.
Right.
So, yeah, travel awesome.
And you learn something.
I learn something every time Igo, whether that's new ingredient
(24:20):
or a new technique or a newflavor or, oh, I didn't think that
could go with that.
But it does.
And then you bring that backto your restaurant, and it's like,
okay, well, maybe this notefrom Japan is going to work with
this note from Canada.
I don't know.
I'm just saying it out loud.
And that's where you come upwith these interesting flavor combinations
which, without experiencingit, you may not, you know, you may
(24:44):
not have found.
And rather than experiencesomeone else's version of it, you're
actually getting it from thehorse's mouth, per se.
Exactly.
And that's why, you know,someone's asked, well, why are all
these different techniques andflavors on the menu?
And it's like, well, because Ilive them.
I haven't picked up a book andbe like, that might go well with
(25:05):
that.
No, it's like, there's areason why.
And that's captured through travel.
At what point in your careerdid the menu start becoming a testimonial
of your experiences?
Really good question.
And I think as we're speakingnow, it's a story that, you know,
we could.
We could do a better job attelling, I think.
(25:28):
Or we should film the documentary.
I do.
Hear, hear if the food scenehere is conversation.
What are you trying to saythat no one else has heard yet?
Well, Atlanta is an amazingculinary destination, you know, so
(25:52):
much so that it's recognizednow by the Michelin guide.
Atlanta has been so welcomingto me, and the food scene here is
awesome.
Like, you can, again, you cantaste all corners of the globe here.
And then you can really tasteand see some amazing Southern.
You know, Southern chefs hereare doing some great stuff.
(26:13):
The farmers are awesome.
But, you know, it's.
When you start taking a deepdive into it, it's wildly impressive.
So, you know, I'm going to dowhat I'm doing in this culinary landscape
is.
Is what's true to me.
And like I said, through myexperiences over the globe and utilizing
(26:35):
the amazing ingredients thatwe have on our doorstep here in Atlanta
is how, you know, how I'm, howI'm doing my part in regards to like
the bigger mission, liketraining and educating the chefs
in our team is like the utmostimportance to us.
Like we have to train them asgood or better than we were taught.
(26:58):
And, and that's something thatwe're really proud of here and going
to continue to do.
Speaking of the staff that youtrain, are they from all over the
world or they're primarilyhere, Atlanta based now.
Now we have around 50 on ourteam in the back.
And a couple years ago we setup an intern and externship program.
(27:18):
So we have, we have our core team.
Amazing.
From mostly all over thecountry since our Michelin star.
It's awesome to see how muchattention we're getting.
It's like, wow, you've heardof us.
And it's quite humbling.
But we do have an externshipinternship program which brings in
(27:40):
students from all over the world.
So we have about 14 studentsat any one time, some from the Culinary
Institute of America and then.
And some from all corners ofthe globe.
And again, very humbling.
Like they chose us and it wasan interesting process because we
had to write, I had to write acurriculum for the year which basically
when they decide to do aninternship with us, it takes them
(28:04):
through all the fundamentalsof the kitchen, whether it's bakery,
fish, butchery, butchery,cooking, plating, you name it.
Like they, they get to seethat in, in the 12 months that they're
here.
So it's a, it's a basically a12 month internship.
Yeah.
Beautiful.
I was, I was privileged enoughto do what in Minneapolis?
Have a one year ACFapprenticeship and live in the hotel.
(28:26):
So I don't know if these guysget to live in a hotel, but this
place is way nicer than them.
Hilton was.
But so do you find to anyaspiring chefs out there or really
people that are chefs as of now?
Did you find that, forinstance, once you got to the Michelin
plateau.
Not plateau, should I say, youknow, keep on going.
(28:48):
But Michelin level.
Once you got to the Michelinlevel, do you find that the checkbooks
open up from food and beverage directors?
Do you find that you're ableto be way more creative or have,
have more carte blanc than youwould normally if it was the process
of getting there?
Yeah, I would say so.
(29:10):
And naturally speaking, you would.
But I just do.
A lot of time people feeltrapped within a budget and within
their creative realm.
But once you get to apinnacle, it's like, and you get
to do whatever you want to door, you.
Know, restaurant business istough business.
We're privileged to be busy.
So that keeps us, keeps us on track.
(29:31):
And you know, the food'sflowing through the kitchen.
The, there's.
If you have a quietrestaurant, it's, it's tougher to
manage.
You've got waste to think about.
You've got.
Well, we always have ways tothink about, but you have to really
have your finger on the, onthe pulse day to day.
And it's a scary place to be.
But we're fortunate enough tobe, to be very busy.
(29:54):
So that's down to our greatguests and our team that's creating
great experiences and great food.
What is the way to get areservation these days?
We've got a 10 month wait list.
Wow.
I'm joking.
We don't.
After I sign you, I believeyou too.
I mean, no, we Release ourreservations 60 days in advance and,
(30:19):
and we're busy.
So you know, we've got anamazing tasting seven days a week.
Five days a week.
Five days a week in Atlas.
And you know, that's sayingworth touching on five days a week
is a great place for us to bebecause we have, we have an A team.
We don't have two teams.
Seven days a week would put usin a situation where we may be a
(30:42):
little bit more volatilebecause we have an A team and A and
a B team, for lack of a better term.
But we have one solid team.
So everybody's knows theirresponsibilities is really consistent
in that sense.
We can control our purchasing,we can control our prep, control
our guest experience.
So yeah, one A team is, is my preference.
(31:04):
How many people are in thekitchen during service?
All 50 or.
No, no, no.
So we go to a prep team.
Prep team comes in 8am we'lldo team meeting at 8, talk about
the events that are comingout, talking about what's coming
in, what fish is arriving andall of that jazz.
And then the teams are dividedup into, you know, their specialities.
(31:28):
And then the evening team willcome in around two and get ready
for dinner.
And that hour there's a good exchange.
3 o', clock, family meal, 4:30pre shift.
Like the day is very regimented.
And then when you look intothose teams, their days are very
regimented with their preplists, with their recipes, with their.
So there's, there's a methodto the madness and it all comes together
(31:51):
nicely.
But you know, it's all down toorganization and planning, which
16 years old was not my forte,but now it's like of the utmost importance
that it is super, super organized.
When you mentioned, you know,what fish is coming in, where are
you sourcing from?
All over the world.
(32:11):
Are you trying to keep itlocal or.
Well, in vegetables.
Vegetables are all local.
And we work with some amazing farms.
And I went to them.
It's a program that took alittle while to get to, but effectively
went to them and said, this iswhat historically we've purchased
and this is what we'vequantity wise and so forth.
(32:34):
What can you grow for us?
And in turn, they've been ableto take on about 60 to 70% of that,
which is amazing.
So vegetables, hyper local,fish, meat.
Again, depending on what's best.
Market's best can come fromvarious places, but we're super focused
(32:55):
on quality.
Fresh is best.
So fine dining.
Looks, tastes, smells, seems elegant.
Explain the back of the housein the organizing of the chaos.
Yeah, I thrive off creativity.
So the dishes and the processin which we take to design those
(33:16):
dishes is very detailed.
And it starts with the formatof our menu.
We start with a caviar dish,then a vegetable dish, then a egg
or a pasta, shellfish,poultry, beef.
And anyway, there's.
There's a framework to how westructure that menu.
And then when you take thenext step is what techniques are
(33:40):
using throughout those dishes,what temperatures using throughout
those dishes, what colors areusing throughout those dishes and
so forth.
And then it becomes reallycomplicated because everything has
to have its unique point ofdifference, as I say, so everything
has to be completely different.
So I have this, like I said,it's almost to the point of insanity,
(34:01):
this matrix, which, you know,we'll talk about the ingredients,
we'll talk about the color,the plate, the cutlery, the temperature,
the technique, you name it,it's on there.
And so we can cross referenceto make sure that there's nothing
the same.
So each dish delivers a very,very unique experience and has its
own voice.
(34:22):
And this is seasonal, Craig?
Yes, it's a lot of work.
Um, and, you know, we want tocreate a moment where there's, you
know, there's a. Wow.
Um, at the beginning of themenu with our snacks, there's a lot
of fun techniques, and I thinkthere's a lot of influence from time
in Spain with a burst here orsomething that dissolves fun textures
(34:46):
and so forth.
But again, a little journey oftechniques throughout my career.
And we have that at the end ofthe meal as well.
And Then in the middle, what Ilearned with working at the Dorchester
with Ducasse is don't forgetthey came to eat.
So, you know, if it's a pieceof turbot with a beautiful sauce
(35:07):
and a perfectly cookedvegetable, like, there's nothing
wrong with that.
That's what it's about.
So we don't want to drift toofar away from the truth.
And there won't be a thousandthings going on with a thousand different,
you know, smoke and bubbles onone plate, because it's about great
ingredients, great producemarried together with the brilliant
(35:28):
sauce as the main part of the meal.
We can have fun left and rightwith these snacks and introduce fun
techniques, but thosetechniques need to have their own
voice.
And when you put them all onone place, it kind of gets.
It gets lost.
Are you at the point now whereyou were actually giving an homage
to some of your mentors on the menu?
(35:49):
Not so much.
Maybe a technique, andobviously it's always an homage to
your training and who.
Who mentored you.
But specific dishes are there.
You know, their names behindspecific dishes.
Now, at this point, I thinkthere is.
There is definitely sometechniques that.
That I can give a shout outto, to, you know, a great chef that's.
(36:13):
That's taught us that we'llput our own spin on it.
There's a dessert from AlanDucasse, the Rum Barber, which is
a soap sponge, Chantillycream, and a rum of your choice.
It's so simple, but it's mastery.
So we'll do that.
(36:35):
And that's a little nod to theboss at a point.
But, yeah, throughout yourcareer, yeah, you pick up tips and
tricks from lots of people andlots of mentors or friends or restaurants
or colleagues.
And.
And yes, those will sometimesmake their way in, for sure.
Do you ever look at a dish andthink, I've gone too far, or maybe
(36:56):
I need to slow things down andnot be so uber creative and maybe
just give people a great mealdining experience.
You know, make maybe sayingeverything doesn't have to be one
or two bites.
Maybe let me give them a heavydish or a full ensemble of multiple
proteins or something on a dish.
(37:16):
Well, you know, I'm lucky that.
That I oversee a few concepts.
So.
Atlas on Michelin StarRestaurant Garden Room Nami.
So.
And our restaurant group has areally broad portfolio of concepts,
so I can, you know, releasethat creative energy and in various
places.
(37:37):
But, yeah, I just go back to,don't forget, they came to eat.
So when Chef Nick called yourname at the US Culinary Open, were
the first people you thoughtof, the people that supported you
to get to that point, or wasit the people who didn't support
you?
Yeah, I was in shock.
It was an amazing moment.
And it was.
(37:59):
Yeah.
So obviously it's a huge honorand so grateful and humbled by it.
Yeah.
I think the supporters.
I worked for a.
When I was taking on a job inthe past, I had a few people come
to me and they were like,don't go and work there.
(38:19):
It's a nightmare.
It's so difficult.
You're going to work allhours, and the chef's not a pleasant
person.
Anyway, I did it.
I didn't listen to any of them.
And what I realized was thechef was difficult, but he had standards,
and everybody that wascomplaining failed.
(38:40):
So it was an eye opener to methat I shouldn't listen to that because
they weren't successful.
Their reaction is to apply andblame or deflect maybe.
Yeah.
So as a result of them notbeing successful, the, you know,
the instinct is to try andburn the house down.
(39:02):
But my perspective was, wascompletely different.
It was.
I won't name them, but amazingchef, amazing restaurant.
And if you worked hard, youwould learn an awful lot.
Yeah.
If you jerked off and, or ifyou didn't take it seriously, you
weren't going to be successful.
So back to your question.
(39:23):
If there is.
Yeah.
Am I, am I tough?
Yes.
But I'm tough about thestandards and tough about getting
it right for our guests.
And, and I've tried.
We try and do that in the mostinspirational way possible, and we're
lucky to have such an amazingteam that appreciates that.
But you also, when you, whenyou come to a restaurant of that
(39:47):
standard, like any sportsteam, you have to, you have to be
able to play, otherwise you'renot on the team.
So once you get to a pointwhere you get so many awards, I think
people don't realize how hardit is to get to that point.
They see the shine, they seethe glamour, they see the bright
lights.
But what do you have to telleveryone, especially aspiring chefs,
about the dedication and hardwork it takes to get to a point of
(40:10):
a Michelin star and to win acompetition like the US Culinary
Open?
I've been in the kitchen forover 20 years now, and you can't
rush it.
You have to learn the fundamentals.
You have to learn the foundations.
And these building blocks willallow you to, you know, be creative.
(40:32):
But, you know, it'sinteresting because let's say I fast
forward and became a chef withvery Little experience.
Well, I'm setting myself upfor failure because I can't answer
all the questions that my teamis going to ask me.
I can't train.
I don't have a big repertoire.
I did a private chef job, youknow, in my 20s, and I quickly realized
(40:56):
after a week of doingbreakfast, lunch, and dinner, I had
no more recipes to cook, andthey wanted something different every
day.
I was like.
So I've been through a lot ofmoments throughout my career that.
That.
That have made sense to keepgoing and keep learning.
Now, you can never stoplearning in the kitchen because,
you know, gastronomy is that,you know, like we spoke about over
(41:19):
earlier, you know, there's somany different kinds of cuisine in
this world.
Like, where do you stop?
So that's why, like, for me,it's been important to understand
the kind of food that.
That I want to serve and thenrefine that repertoire there.
But to young chefs, yeah, there's.
There's so much to learn, andyou can't rush it.
(41:40):
And those building blocks arereally important, because once you've
learned the skills and thetechniques, then you need to learn
about the food cost and thescheduling and all the other things
that come with it.
And it's really important aswell that the team below you are
able to learn from you.
So if you've rushed that, youwon't be able to teach, because that's
(42:03):
really what it is that we'redoing here.
We're teaching, and we're training.
I'm not cooking the fish every night.
That's knowledge that's beenhanded down and trained to those
guys and girls.
We're designing.
We're the architects now, andorchestrating how it all happens.
But I can't do any of that.
Had I not lived it and then,and had I rushed it, we definitely
(42:25):
wouldn't be here today.
So don't rush it.
When your career is over andyou decide to retire, do you want
people to remember you for theawards and accolades you gained or
for the scars and burns thatyou received?
I think a little bit of both.
You know, I like to get.
(42:47):
I'm a worker.
I'm.
I don't forget where I camefrom, and I'm extremely humbled to
have won some amazing accolades.
But I still think there's waysto go and there's room to grow, and
I learned that through the graft.
(43:09):
I'm not afraid to roll up mysleeves and work, and I don't think
that's ever gonna not be thecase, because, again, they came to
eat.
I'm a chef.
Let's not drift too far awayfrom the truth here.
I'd love to be known as a.
As a.
(43:29):
As a good leader and a mentor.
And it's interesting to seehow, like, as you get older, that
kind of starts to happen naturally.
But what.
What drives me is the.
That education and innovationevery day.
Chef, we appreciate the timeyou spent with us.
Let's go ahead and get youinaugurated as the 2025 U.S. culinary
(43:50):
Open champion.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com