August 27, 2024 • 26 mins
In our inaugural episode, recorded live at the ASAE Annual Meeting and Exposition in Cleveland, we hand over the hosting duties to Kiki L'Italien, host of Association Chat. Kiki engages in a lively discussion with Virginie De Visscher, executive director of business events for Destination Canada, on the crucial topic of sustainability in events. Together, they explore how sustainability spans environmental, sociocultural, and economic dimensions, advocating for a holistic approach. Virginie provides inspiring examples from Canada, including innovations like green roofs, urban beehives, and local food initiatives, underscoring the importance of incorporating cultural elements to enhance event experiences.
This episode is sponsored by Destination Canada.
Associations NOW Presents is produced by Association Briefings.
Transcript
Michelle Mason 00:04 From ASAE, this is Associations NOW Presents, a podcast for association professionals tackling issues and challenges that affect our community. I'm Michelle Mason, CEO of ASAE. We hope you enjoythis episode. Now, let's tune in and hear what the experts are discussing.
Kiki L'Italien 00:22 All right, we are live. Do you hear this background noise? We are live at ASAE annual, at the Super Bowl of meetings in Cleveland, Ohio. I am Kiki L'Italien, and I am guest hosting the inaugural podcast episode of ASAE's new podcast. I usually host a podcast over Association Chat. I got a chance to jump over here. And with me is our inaugural podcast guest
Virginie De Visscher 00:53 Virginie De Visscher.
Kiki L'Italien 00:54 I wish you could say that as well as you do. With the last name, L'Italien, and you think I'd be better at this. But anyway, I'm so glad that we're here. I'm so glad that we're talking and I saw you on stage today, and can I just say you were fantastic. It looked like you were like born to do this. You just dominated the stage. You were radiant.
Virginie De Visscher 01:17 I think I was inspired by who we were introducing, Amanda Gorman.
Kiki L'Italien 01:21 I know. Weren’t we all? Amanda Gorman is not just inspirational. I do believe she's a magical being. I You though, let me tell you, you had an important message, and Team Canada has an important message. That's why you're here. Let's talk about the keyword sustainability, sustainability. We could say it together, sustainability. So I'm super excited to talk to you because for several reasons. One is because I love Canada, but the other is because this is the inaugural episode, inaugural episode of the first ASAE podcast, and they're launching it here. This is supposed to be somewhat of a different format than all of the rest. We get to be the lucky ones. And I'm looking at this list of questions, but all I can do is stare across at you right now and see that you're beaming. You're radiating. I saw you on stage this morning with Amanda Gorman also sharing the stage opening keynote. And you're up there and you're talking about sustainability and being maybe when people hear the word sustainability, they don't think of it as being particularly exciting. But at the same time, a lot of travel here was disrupted because of harsh climate conditions, right? We had these horrible storms. People had a hard time getting to ASAE Annual. Interesting that one of the big features that you're talking about for Canada is Destination Canada is doing some amazing things with sustainability. So I want to go into that. I want to open with that and talk about the fact that it is a really important topic. It is something that I think more and more event planners are finding to be increasingly important for the way that they decide where they're going to post their meetings. And I think that when people start looking for is there something meaningful behind the word susta
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
From ASAE, this is AssociationsNOW Presents, a podcast for
association professionalstackling issues and challenges
that affect our community. I'mMichelle Mason, CEO of ASAE. We
hope you enjoyed this episode.Now let's tune in and hear what
the experts are discussing.
Kiki L'Italien (00:26):
All right, we are live. Do you hear this
background noise? We are live atASAE annual, at the Super Bowl
of meetings in Cleveland, Ohio.I am Kiki L'Italien, and I am
guest hosting the inaugural,inaugural podcast episode of as
a news podcast, usually apodcast over Association Chat. I
(00:47):
got a chance to jump over here.And with me is our inaugural
podcast guest
Virginie De Visscher (00:53):
Virginie De Visscher.
Kiki L'Italien (00:54):
I wish you could say that as well as you do. You
see it, and it's Virginie withthe last name, with
L'Italien, and you think I'd bebetter at this. But anyway, I'm
so glad that we're here. I'm soglad that we're talking and I
saw you on stage today, and canI just say you were fantastic.
It looked like you were likeborn, doing just dominated the
(01:16):
stage. You were radiant. I
Virginie De Visscher (01:17):
think I was inspired by who we were
introducing, Amanda Gorman, I
Kiki L'Italien (01:21):
know. Who are we on? Amanda Gorman is not just
inspirational. I do believeshe's a magical being. I think
she's just he wrote, really,what do you just visit olmer?
You though, let me tell you, youhad an important message, and
Team Canada has an importantmessage. That's why you're here.
Let's talk about the keywordsustainability, sustainability.
(01:46):
We could say it together, so thesame ability. So I'm super
excited to talk to you becausefor several reasons. One is
because I love Canada, but theother is because this is the
inaugural episode, inauguralepisode of the first ASAE
podcast, and they're launchingit here. This is supposed to be
(02:07):
something the different formatthan all of the rest. We get to
be the lucky ones. And I'mlooking at this list of
questions, but all I can do isstare across at you right now
and see that you're beaming.You're radiating. I saw you on
stage this morning with AmandaGorman also sharing the stage
opening keynote. And you're upthere and you're talking about
(02:30):
sustainability and being maybewhen people hear the word
sustainability, they don't thinkof it as being particularly
exciting. But at the same time,a lot of travel here was
disrupted because of harshclimate conditions, right? We
had these horrible storms.People had a hard time getting
to ASAE Annual. Interesting thatone of the big features that
(02:53):
you're talking about for Canadais Destination Canada is doing
some amazing things withsustainability. So I want to go
into that. I want to open withthat and talk about the fact
that it is a really importanttopic. It is something that I
think more and more eventplanners are finding to be
increasingly important for theway that they decide where
(03:14):
they're going to post theirmeetings. And I think that when
people start looking for isthere something meaningful
behind the word sustainabilitythat's happening? They're going
to ask these questions. Sosustainability, what's
happening? Why is this such afocus for you and Destination
Canada? And what's got you firedup about it right now?
Virginie De Visscher (03:36):
I think it's a combination of things.
It's a passion subject. First ofall, it's a personal fashion
subject, but I think it'sundeniable. Like you mentioned,
the recent climate events thatimpacted Cleveland, like these
are impacting all of us acrossthe planet. In Canada, we're not
immune, and things are happeningand we see it. We have a
beautiful country, and we wantto make sure that it stays that
(03:58):
way. So events are disruptive inan ecosystem. By just bringing
large amount of species intoanother ecosystem, you're
disrupting the environment. Sowhat can you do to keep less of
that disruption and on theopposite side, how do you
maximize the benefits that youbring into a destination with
events? Sustainability is atopic that we've really taken on
(04:19):
this Destination Canada, but asTeam Canada is a whole effort
countrywide through a nationalsustainability plan that really
means a lot to us, because wewant to still be there for
generations coming ahead. AndI'm not saying that cliche. I
really mean it.
Kiki L'Italien (04:32):
Yeah, I was talking with someone about the
fact that we were going to havethis discussion, and her
association is focused onlooking at how meetings use
their waste. And so she said,Are you going to ask any
questions about that? Are yougoing to ask, like, what they're
doing, how they're working withdifferent meeting planners to
figure out how to create moresustainable meetings? And I
said, that's a really greatquestion. Let me go ahead and
(04:55):
add that to the list. What aresome of the ways that you're
working with different people,different a. Associations and
organizations that are coming into have meetings in Canada.
There's lots
Virginie De Visscher (05:04):
of different ways how you can
approach it, but first, maybe weshould define sustainability.
Let's do that. Let's define it.When you say the word
sustainability, there's a bigassumption that it's just about
environmental Yes, but it's notjust that. It's not all the
green stuff and what you do inregards to saving the planet,
it's all about the people andthe culture as well. So when we
define sustainability, we wantto make sure that all three
(05:26):
pillars are encompassed into it.So of course, environmental
sustainability, but then it'sthe sociocultural and economic
side. So you want to have animpact on local economies when
you're coming to meet somewhere,but also that cultures are
thriving and people are healthyand people are there for the
long term. So when we really seeit as all encompassing and not
just environmental, that was thefirst thing to do. But then the
(05:48):
realization was, everybody is apart of it. It just it's not put
the blame on someone, or don'tthink you can't do anything
about it. It belongs toeverybody. We all live on this
planet. We all have people thatwe care about around us, or
future generations to come. Sowhat can we do? And that was
when we started our nationalbusiness event sustainability
plan. And keep in mind, we're anational organization, so we're
(06:11):
not necessarily in the citylevel, but it's very important
that we create that leadershipfor people to move forward and
our organizations to be moresustainable. I think covid
really impacted that way too,when meetings were all of a
sudden not happening. Sure theenvironmental footprint was
well, the environment benefited,right? Nobody was moving
anywhere, traveling. But look atall the negative impact that
(06:33):
happened. So many businessesshut down. People were not
thriving. Knowledge was notbeing shared, so all these
positive impacts and legacies ofevents were not happening, so
it's all about maximizing thebenefits and minimizing the
negative potential environmentalfootprint. So then the birth of
the plan was to get alldestinations on board to be more
(06:55):
sustainable for meetings.
Kiki L'Italien (06:57):
Do you think that you're getting enough
questions about this? Do younotice that there is an
increasing amount of interest? Ihear talk about it, right? I
hear people say that they'reinterested, but I don't know if,
in actuality, that theconversations have changed, have
they? There's
Virginie De Visscher (07:14):
more questions. It's undeniable.
We've done a lot of survey onthis, and it's quite visible
that right now, it is supplierdriven. There's a lot of
barriers still to having moresustainable meetings. Cost is
one of those biggest barriers,and the second one is lack of
knowledge or what you canimplement. And so on the
supplier side, they've reallytaken that on venues and hotels,
(07:35):
even airlines, to be honest,have taken a stance and been
more sustainable, offering moreoptions, whether it's waste
diversion or the way energy orelectricity is fed into the
building, or food and beverageoptions. So all of that venues
and destinations have reallytaken a stance on how they can
make that easier forassociations to meet and
(07:55):
incorporate them. So while we'renot seeing as much coming from
the association world and askingfor sustainable practices. More
and more the responses from thedestinations that are bidding on
these opportunities areincluding sustainable practices.
Kiki L'Italien (08:10):
Yeah, I think everybody, when I'm looking at
associations, the executivedirectors reporting to their
boards, do we want more and moreto be able to include this thing
that makes everyone feel likethey're doing their part.
They're doing the thing that'sgoing to make the planet better.
I hate to sound a little bitcynical, but actually, from a
bottom line standpoint, I thinkit actually ultimately is better
(08:33):
for everybody, even from thebottom, not a standpoint, to be
thinking about that biggerpicture. Because if we don't
have a planet, we can't havemore meetings. You know, we
can't continue to haveassociations. And so the other
part that you touched on wassustainability, talking about
these pillars, talking aboutbeing concerned about the
cultural side of things. How isDestination Canada showing
(08:55):
support and offering upopportunity means to support
those
Virginie De Visscher (09:00):
measures. So that's a really fun one,
seeing that we have so manydiverse communities in Canada.
We're a mosaic of people thathave come from all over the
world, but also coming into aland where indigenous peoples
were here from time immemorial.And so how do we showcase all of
what Canada is made out of, andthrough sustaining those
cultures for multiplegenerations to come, and so
(09:22):
integrating them into programsfor meetings is one way to do
it. So I'll give you an examplefor Canada night at ASAE, we're
actually going to have a fashionshow, and what we're doing is
we're featuring an indigenousdesigner. So we fraud a Metis
company called Anne Mueller, andshe's a beaker extremely
(09:43):
environmentally and sociallyconscious organization and
company, and she's actuallygoing to be doing a fashion show
with the pieces that she'screated, telling that story.
Stop. I
Kiki L'Italien (09:53):
am so interested. I want to be there
and see this. This is amazing. Ilove this. So
Virginie De Visscher (10:00):
one way is we're keeping the culture alive.
She can share her story throughfashion, but at the same time,
we're economically sustainingher business. That's one way
that we're actually walking thetalks. It's not just about
environmental that cultural andeconomic aspect is so strong in
all that we do.
Kiki L'Italien (10:16):
So does that get frustrated when people only
focus on that because it isimportant. But it does seem to
be that everyone focuses on thatone part and not all of these
other things. I
Virginie De Visscher (10:26):
wouldn't call it frustrating. I would say
focus on the low hanging fruitsfirst, and perhaps the
environmental side is just thelower hanging fruit. It's easier
to do the cultural side. Youhave to think it through a
little bit harder and gettingthe help of the local host
destination and what culturesthey want to showcase are
bringing local art. We've hadworkshops doing local moccasins
(10:47):
and to bring that culture alive.
Kiki L'Italien (10:49):
Oh, that's so fantastic. Okay, so
sustainability has been a majortheme for you at this year's
ASAE meeting. What has motivatedteam Canada? They're so
abstract. So in 2022
Virginie De Visscher (11:00):
when we launched the National Business
Event Sustainability Pplan, itwas comprised of three sections.
So the first part was educationand coaching. So what we
realized is that when people areuncomfortable or don't know the
terms around sustainability,they will be less likely to talk
about it. So phase one wasreally, what does net zero mean?
What does carbon neutral Maine,all these terms. So we rolled
(11:23):
out workshops and educationsessions across the country,
just so many different partners.Phase two was knowing where we
were at. It was benchmarking. Sowe partner with the global
destination SustainabilityIndex, the GDS, and we had 16
destinations across the entirecountry. We're very big. We're
second largest landmass in theworld. So we had 16 destinations
go through that entirebenchmarking process to see
(11:45):
where are we at? Where can weimprove? If you don't know where
you stand, you can't go up,right? So that's what we did.
And phase three is storytelling,and we're right in the midst of
that. So through this wholebenchmarking exercise, we
collected stories, initiativesaround sustainability across the
country, across these threepillars, and we are launching
today our storybook Sosustainability storybook, which
(12:07):
has 30 stories from across thecountry, which are examples of
what you can bring in, like avirtual delegate bag or the
indigenous Fashion Show. There'salso stories about incentives
into sustainability or differentways to impact the communities
that you're living in or havingyour meeting in. And that
(12:29):
storybook has been launched, andwe also have a sustainability
stories pavilion that showcaseseight of these stories here live
at ASAE. It's just perfecttiming of where we wanted to
launch these initiatives.
Kiki L'Italien (12:41):
So earlier, you said that this was something
that was personally important toyou. Can you tell me a little
bit more about that? Why issustainability particularly
important to you? You mean me asa person? Yeah, you as a human
being, an actual individual.
Virginie De Visscher (12:56):
My background is in science and
engineering, and I've alwaysbeen close to the environment in
itself. I've traveled around theworld, lived in Africa for many
years, in Asia, and I've seenthe impacts of the environment,
but also on people around theworld and what we can do and the
changes over time. And I guessit's almost become a personal
passion of mine that I have todo something I believe, very
(13:19):
honestly, in whatever field youend up being, if it's medical or
signage or entertainment or eventourism, you can do something
about it. And so I'm in thetourism industry, I can do
something about it. So I'm usingthat voice and that passion has
to feel really
Kiki L'Italien (13:38):
good. When you go home at night and you're
winding down, you have to feellike, wow, I feel like I'm
actively making a difference, I
Virginie De Visscher (13:46):
wish, but it's a journey, and there's so
much more to do. So I think Iwill continue to be on that
path. I don't think we have anend point on that one.
Kiki L'Italien (13:55):
Okay, we're on the journey together. So part of
that journey is people arecoming into the pavilion.
They're experiencing that here.What's the next step that you
hope that they leave thatpavilion? What do you hope that
they experience and walk awaywith from interacting with Team
Canada?
Virginie De Visscher (14:12):
The way the pavilion is designed is that
for every story, there's aquestion, and it's a question
that hopefully asks forreflection. So it's, have you
thought about incorporating acultural element in your
meeting? Have you thought aboutdoing this or that? And so what
we hope is that booth, by theway, is staffed by a member of
(14:33):
Team Canada, all throughoutwhich will be sharing those
stories. So it's a way to getpeople engaged, and maybe if one
of them, or every person thatvisits, goes away with one idea
that they can bring back totheir meetings, whether it's a
local pop up market in thedestination that they will be
needing to support differentbusinesses that are local, that
(14:54):
would be just so amazing. Sothat's what we really hope to
spur and whether they need inCanada or not. Of course, we.
Want them to meet in Canada, butit's can we impact that change
in all of their meetings when
Kiki L'Italien (15:05):
an association is actually going about trying
to implement sustainabilitypractices or bring that on? I
think you touched on this alittle bit earlier. What are the
challenges that they're facing?Are they trying to bite off more
than they pinch What do you hearthat they're running into when
they're starting to go down thatpath?
Virginie De Visscher (15:24):
There's a variety of reasons, and it's not
always the same for everyone,but here are some of the ones
that I've heard quite a bit. Soone is and in no particular
order, it can be anafterthought. So you know, the
whole machine into sourcing nextmeetings is into place. RFPs
out, so we're ready to look andthen few months before the
meeting, oh, wait a second, didwe look at sustainability? Oh,
(15:47):
that thing, yeah. So it's muchharder to then put back into the
meeting once you've gone so faradding it into the RFP and then
your sourcing process is one wayto go about it. The other
challenge that we get is there'sno one person to point it to. It
Right? It's only starting nowthat you're going to have an
organization's a sustainabilityperson, so usually it ends up
(16:10):
being on the side of the desk ofsomeone for another task to ask
to the meeting planner. And itbecomes big, right? So if it's
not the part of the mission orvision of the organization, it
becomes secondary, so putting itas a priority and having a
person really dedicated to itcan help, and that takes time to
create another one. Isdefinitely the cost. I mentioned
(16:32):
cost before, but by sourcingmore sustainable venues and
sustainable destinations,sometimes that can be avoided
because they're alreadyincorporated in the destination.
So there's ways to get aroundit. We're the sustainability
sponsor for this event, so thatsustainability stations that are
around all the food stations, wesupport that because we believe
in that I have
Kiki L'Italien (16:51):
my bottle of water over here, the diet
reusable bottle of water that Ihave so that I can refill it
periodically. And I do believethat I was reminded ahead of
time to bring that with me, yes,so that I could fill my bottle
with the water around fear, sothat we wouldn't produce more
waste. Is that you're doingabsolutely
Virginie De Visscher (17:11):
we're supporting that. And since you
can bring your reusable waterbottle to the sustainability
stories pavilion and get a freeentry for a free registration
for next year's meeting,
Kiki L'Italien (17:20):
oh my gosh, I think I missed that part
somehow. I think I missed it,but that's really amazing. And I
would be so curious to see Ihave seen a lot of these
reusable water bottles goingaround. So pretty incredible.
And what do you think as far astrying to get leaders to take
ownership of their role inbringing that awareness into
(17:42):
their strategy for theirmeetings, to think about
sustainability, so it isn't anafterthought. I know that
pavilion is part of that, but isthere a way? Is there some sort
of magic that you're weavingthat it can get them to think
about this stuff? It's
Virginie De Visscher (17:56):
one person at a time. It really is. You get
one person inspired and saying,Yeah, I can do that. I can bring
that in. But I really hope, andmaybe that's me, personally,
speaking, the way I really hopeto change the organization,
world, association world, isunderstanding that no matter
what field your association isfocused on, sustainability is
part of it, if you look at it,all encompassing. So yes, maybe
(18:20):
you're in a medical field, andsaving the environment is
definitely not on your radar,but you're all about people. And
so there is something that youcan do to save people, and if
you see it overall, as a companywithin sustainability, that
makes sense. On oursustainability pavilion, we've
actually aligned all thesustainability initiatives with
the United Nations SustainableDevelopment Goals. So when you
(18:41):
look at the 17 un SDGs,everybody can relate to those.
It's a universal framework andblueprint. So by doing that, we
can put in a language thatanybody can take regardless of
what field they're in.
Kiki L'Italien (18:52):
I love that. I love that. And I feel like when
people see the structure behindit and that alignment, it makes
them feel safer to maybe dothings that they'd haven't done
before, right?
Virginie De Visscher (19:02):
It's all about starting. You know, it's
one little step at a time. Don'ttry to chew off the entire thing
at once, because that's reallyhard. Yeah, it's just one small
Kiki L'Italien (19:10):
step. Okay, so I'm going to ask you the hardest
question ever, which is, becauseI know, get ready. You have so
many beautiful destinations, somany beautiful cities. I'm not
going to ask you to playfavorites among your children,
but I am going to ask you forsome examples. Do you have some
examples you could share with meabout some of the fantastic
(19:30):
offerings that really emphasizethe sustainability efforts that
Team Canada is putting forth? Ohmy
Virginie De Visscher (19:36):
goodness, there's so many of them. And so
if I start listing them, I'msure I will forget some and then
I'm gonna have some unhappypartners.
Kiki L'Italien (19:42):
Let me just disclaimer ahead of time, she
loves all of you like you're allloved all the destination
Virginie De Visscher (19:49):
I do, but there's some really fun examples
out there, right? So if you lookat first at venues and what some
venues have done, anything fromgreen roofs to beehives on the
roofs. I'd be remiss. TheVancouver Convention Center is
absolutely amazing with some ofthe energy. I
Kiki L'Italien (20:04):
didn't there. I was like, I actually had that
experience and toured that andthis was even, this is not a
brand new thing, you guys. Thisis something that I don't know.
Maybe it was 10 to eight yearsago I went there, and that was a
huge effort. So Team Canada'snew to this game. You guys have
been trying to do this for along time. Yeah, for sure.
Virginie De Visscher (20:25):
So from the green roof fair to beehives
in Toronto, to solar panels onthe top of the convention center
in Edmonton, to the recyclingand sorting facilities at the
panada conga in Montreal.There's so many amazing things,
including the new BMO center inCalgary. They had a really fun
initiative just recently whenthey did their opening. So they
(20:45):
had listen to this one. This isreally cute story. They had name
badges that were made out ofseed paper. And then they had a
whole activity where they had aplanter box where we could each
plant our name tag, and so nowour name tag would live as
flowers forever on inside thoseplanters.
Kiki L'Italien (21:04):
What I love about that is that we've seen
like the sort of seed tags, butto actually have the ritual, the
actual experience of doing thatvery reobang, it's moving. It's
community building. Every timeyou're looking at what helps
people to feel like they belong,whether it's to a meeting, to a
community of AssociationExecutives. It's like you're
(21:24):
looking for that piece, and thatis something that brings people
to that. I need none of that.That's such a good example.
Virginie De Visscher (21:30):
Who's a beautiful example, but you have
more and more. I was not so longago at the Halifax Convention
Center, and they had their foodstations, and they had a sign in
front explaining where the foodwas coming from. This food came
from this particular farmer, andshowed, really that locality of
supporting local businesses intotheir food. So it was not only
fresh, but it didn't have totravel miles to get there. Just
(21:53):
more and more you're seeingthose examples across the
country, and that makes it supervibrant, and that's only
touching the environmental side.
Kiki L'Italien (21:59):
So in some of these examples that you're
giving me, people can go to thepavilion and they can, like,
learn more about that sort ofthing, and get those ideas, and
get those stories as they'rethinking, maybe considering,
maybe exploring what's evenpossible. Because just as you
were sitting here explainingsome of these to me, I thought,
I wish I could have just acompilation of everything that
(22:23):
you're saying to you, like allof the examples, so that could
go through and just be like,Chase, is this brilliant? Let's
do this.
Virginie De Visscher (22:29):
So at the Pavilion, we can only showcase
eight stories that are there,but in the storybook, you're
gonna have 30 stories. Andagain, that's still just
scratching the surface. So whenyou reach out to us and even to
all of our team Canada,partners, each of them can
really share what they have likein depth, because everybody
wants a different side ofsustainability. Maybe you're not
into the food part of it somuch, but the cultural side's
(22:50):
super important. So it really isa discussion with the
organization about what'simportant to them. Yeah,
Kiki L'Italien (22:57):
I think that sustainability is the key word
here, but it's also aboutexperience, and it's also about
the feeling of belonging, ofhaving a meaningful experience.
When you're engaging with anevent or a meeting and you're
looking for something that isreal,
Virginie De Visscher (23:14):
it's about being inspired. For example, at
one of our events recently,instead of printing menus, we
use little chalkboards. And sowe just put the menu on the
chalkboard, and then when wewere done, we erased it, and
then the next day there was theother menu. So there's just a
little tidbit on how you justsave a lot of paper. And people
thought it was really cute. Ilove that. I think it's
fantastic little ideas likethat. And what happened is a lot
(23:38):
of the clients that were thatevent were like, oh, like you. I
love that. I'm gonna bring thatback to my event. And so that's
how the ideas spread.
Kiki L'Italien (23:45):
I don't know if this is in the pavilion, but
maybe taking ideas too like itinspires you to have ideas. You
build on them, and it's, Oh, Ilike that. And then building on
that. Let me think of this. Isthere a collective area? It's an
idea. Absolutely
Virginie De Visscher (23:59):
question. Yeah, sources of best practices
and things to bring forward.
Kiki L'Italien (24:02):
I love it. I love it. Is there anything that
I didn't ask you to that shit?One thing
Virginie De Visscher (24:07):
I want to mention is the word
sustainability itself. It'salmost like an over loved term,
right? Overused? And whathappens with overused and over
loved terms is that it getspeople away from them. Oh,
again, another talk aboutsustainability. But when you
look, when you think about it,sustainability is sustaining
something. It's maintainingstatus quo. And so is that
(24:29):
really what we want? And so ourthinking now, what's next for us
is looking towards regenerativetourism. How can we actually do
better, rather than stayingwhere we're at? Ooh,
Kiki L'Italien (24:41):
so I'm very intrigued. I like, I love this
idea of building on it, and likegrowing and it's like generating
these new ideas. I think that'sfantastic. I love that
Virginie De Visscher (24:55):
a 2030, Destination Canada strategy is
aiming towards that, and maybewe'll have a. Another chat in a
little while. I
Kiki L'Italien (25:01):
would love to have another chat about that. I
like this idea of like the Oh,I'm getting inspired already. I
love it. I love it. Okay. I amexcited that we got a chance to
be able to do this. We are solucky. High five. You guys are
hearing this clap, I hope in thebackground, because we just high
fived for real, in person. It'sunbelievable. The magic was here
(25:23):
ASE annual doing this inauguralepisode of ASCE Podcast. I'm so
glad we got to do this together.
Virginie De Visscher (25:32):
Thank you so much.
Michelle Mason (25:36):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
associations now present, wehope the insights and stories
shared today were valuable andinspiring. We look forward to
having you join us again for ournext episode, but until then, be
sure to check out the latestfrom associations
now@associationsnow.com don'tforget to subscribe on Apple
(25:58):
Spotify or wherever you listento your favorite podcast so you
never miss an episode until thenext time. I am Michelle Mason,
and this has been associationsnow present you.
From ASAE, this is AssociationsNOW Presents, a podcast for
association professionalstackling issues and challenges
that affect our community. I'mMichelle Mason, CEO of ASAE. We
hope you enjoyed this episode.Now let's tune in and hear what
the experts are discussing.
Kiki L'Italien (00:26):
All right, we are live. Do you hear this
background noise? We are live atASAE annual, at the Super Bowl
of meetings in Cleveland, Ohio.I am Kiki L'Italien, and I am
guest hosting the inaugural,inaugural podcast episode of as
a news podcast, usually apodcast over Association Chat. I
(00:47):
got a chance to jump over here.And with me is our inaugural
podcast guest
Virginie De Visscher (00:53):
Virginie De Visscher.
Kiki L'Italien (00:54):
I wish you could say that as well as you do. You
see it, and it's Virginie withthe last name, with
L'Italien, and you think I'd bebetter at this. But anyway, I'm
so glad that we're here. I'm soglad that we're talking and I
saw you on stage today, and canI just say you were fantastic.
It looked like you were likeborn, doing just dominated the
(01:16):
stage. You were radiant. I
Virginie De Visscher (01:17):
think I was inspired by who we were
introducing, Amanda Gorman, I
Kiki L'Italien (01:21):
know. Who are we on? Amanda Gorman is not just
inspirational. I do believeshe's a magical being. I think
she's just he wrote, really,what do you just visit olmer?
You though, let me tell you, youhad an important message, and
Team Canada has an importantmessage. That's why you're here.
Let's talk about the keywordsustainability, sustainability.
(01:46):
We could say it together, so thesame ability. So I'm super
excited to talk to you becausefor several reasons. One is
because I love Canada, but theother is because this is the
inaugural episode, inauguralepisode of the first ASAE
podcast, and they're launchingit here. This is supposed to be
(02:07):
something the different formatthan all of the rest. We get to
be the lucky ones. And I'mlooking at this list of
questions, but all I can do isstare across at you right now
and see that you're beaming.You're radiating. I saw you on
stage this morning with AmandaGorman also sharing the stage
opening keynote. And you're upthere and you're talking about
(02:30):
sustainability and being maybewhen people hear the word
sustainability, they don't thinkof it as being particularly
exciting. But at the same time,a lot of travel here was
disrupted because of harshclimate conditions, right? We
had these horrible storms.People had a hard time getting
to ASAE Annual. Interesting thatone of the big features that
(02:53):
you're talking about for Canadais Destination Canada is doing
some amazing things withsustainability. So I want to go
into that. I want to open withthat and talk about the fact
that it is a really importanttopic. It is something that I
think more and more eventplanners are finding to be
increasingly important for theway that they decide where
(03:14):
they're going to post theirmeetings. And I think that when
people start looking for isthere something meaningful
behind the word sustainabilitythat's happening? They're going
to ask these questions. Sosustainability, what's
happening? Why is this such afocus for you and Destination
Canada? And what's got you firedup about it right now?
Virginie De Visscher (03:36):
I think it's a combination of things.
It's a passion subject. First ofall, it's a personal fashion
subject, but I think it'sundeniable. Like you mentioned,
the recent climate events thatimpacted Cleveland, like these
are impacting all of us acrossthe planet. In Canada, we're not
immune, and things are happeningand we see it. We have a
beautiful country, and we wantto make sure that it stays that
(03:58):
way. So events are disruptive inan ecosystem. By just bringing
large amount of species intoanother ecosystem, you're
disrupting the environment. Sowhat can you do to keep less of
that disruption and on theopposite side, how do you
maximize the benefits that youbring into a destination with
events? Sustainability is atopic that we've really taken on
(04:19):
this Destination Canada, but asTeam Canada is a whole effort
countrywide through a nationalsustainability plan that really
means a lot to us, because wewant to still be there for
generations coming ahead. AndI'm not saying that cliche. I
really mean it.
Kiki L'Italien (04:32):
Yeah, I was talking with someone about the
fact that we were going to havethis discussion, and her
association is focused onlooking at how meetings use
their waste. And so she said,Are you going to ask any
questions about that? Are yougoing to ask, like, what they're
doing, how they're working withdifferent meeting planners to
figure out how to create moresustainable meetings? And I
said, that's a really greatquestion. Let me go ahead and
(04:55):
add that to the list. What aresome of the ways that you're
working with different people,different a. Associations and
organizations that are coming into have meetings in Canada.
There's lots
Virginie De Visscher (05:04):
of different ways how you can
approach it, but first, maybe weshould define sustainability.
Let's do that. Let's define it.When you say the word
sustainability, there's a bigassumption that it's just about
environmental Yes, but it's notjust that. It's not all the
green stuff and what you do inregards to saving the planet,
it's all about the people andthe culture as well. So when we
define sustainability, we wantto make sure that all three
(05:26):
pillars are encompassed into it.So of course, environmental
sustainability, but then it'sthe sociocultural and economic
side. So you want to have animpact on local economies when
you're coming to meet somewhere,but also that cultures are
thriving and people are healthyand people are there for the
long term. So when we really seeit as all encompassing and not
just environmental, that was thefirst thing to do. But then the
(05:48):
realization was, everybody is apart of it. It just it's not put
the blame on someone, or don'tthink you can't do anything
about it. It belongs toeverybody. We all live on this
planet. We all have people thatwe care about around us, or
future generations to come. Sowhat can we do? And that was
when we started our nationalbusiness event sustainability
plan. And keep in mind, we're anational organization, so we're
(06:11):
not necessarily in the citylevel, but it's very important
that we create that leadershipfor people to move forward and
our organizations to be moresustainable. I think covid
really impacted that way too,when meetings were all of a
sudden not happening. Sure theenvironmental footprint was
well, the environment benefited,right? Nobody was moving
anywhere, traveling. But look atall the negative impact that
(06:33):
happened. So many businessesshut down. People were not
thriving. Knowledge was notbeing shared, so all these
positive impacts and legacies ofevents were not happening, so
it's all about maximizing thebenefits and minimizing the
negative potential environmentalfootprint. So then the birth of
the plan was to get alldestinations on board to be more
(06:55):
sustainable for meetings.
Kiki L'Italien (06:57):
Do you think that you're getting enough
questions about this? Do younotice that there is an
increasing amount of interest? Ihear talk about it, right? I
hear people say that they'reinterested, but I don't know if,
in actuality, that theconversations have changed, have
they? There's
Virginie De Visscher (07:14):
more questions. It's undeniable.
We've done a lot of survey onthis, and it's quite visible
that right now, it is supplierdriven. There's a lot of
barriers still to having moresustainable meetings. Cost is
one of those biggest barriers,and the second one is lack of
knowledge or what you canimplement. And so on the
supplier side, they've reallytaken that on venues and hotels,
(07:35):
even airlines, to be honest,have taken a stance and been
more sustainable, offering moreoptions, whether it's waste
diversion or the way energy orelectricity is fed into the
building, or food and beverageoptions. So all of that venues
and destinations have reallytaken a stance on how they can
make that easier forassociations to meet and
(07:55):
incorporate them. So while we'renot seeing as much coming from
the association world and askingfor sustainable practices. More
and more the responses from thedestinations that are bidding on
these opportunities areincluding sustainable practices.
Kiki L'Italien (08:10):
Yeah, I think everybody, when I'm looking at
associations, the executivedirectors reporting to their
boards, do we want more and moreto be able to include this thing
that makes everyone feel likethey're doing their part.
They're doing the thing that'sgoing to make the planet better.
I hate to sound a little bitcynical, but actually, from a
bottom line standpoint, I thinkit actually ultimately is better
(08:33):
for everybody, even from thebottom, not a standpoint, to be
thinking about that biggerpicture. Because if we don't
have a planet, we can't havemore meetings. You know, we
can't continue to haveassociations. And so the other
part that you touched on wassustainability, talking about
these pillars, talking aboutbeing concerned about the
cultural side of things. How isDestination Canada showing
(08:55):
support and offering upopportunity means to support
those
Virginie De Visscher (09:00):
measures. So that's a really fun one,
seeing that we have so manydiverse communities in Canada.
We're a mosaic of people thathave come from all over the
world, but also coming into aland where indigenous peoples
were here from time immemorial.And so how do we showcase all of
what Canada is made out of, andthrough sustaining those
cultures for multiplegenerations to come, and so
(09:22):
integrating them into programsfor meetings is one way to do
it. So I'll give you an examplefor Canada night at ASAE, we're
actually going to have a fashionshow, and what we're doing is
we're featuring an indigenousdesigner. So we fraud a Metis
company called Anne Mueller, andshe's a beaker extremely
(09:43):
environmentally and sociallyconscious organization and
company, and she's actuallygoing to be doing a fashion show
with the pieces that she'screated, telling that story.
Stop. I
Kiki L'Italien (09:53):
am so interested. I want to be there
and see this. This is amazing. Ilove this. So
Virginie De Visscher (10:00):
one way is we're keeping the culture alive.
She can share her story throughfashion, but at the same time,
we're economically sustainingher business. That's one way
that we're actually walking thetalks. It's not just about
environmental that cultural andeconomic aspect is so strong in
all that we do.
Kiki L'Italien (10:16):
So does that get frustrated when people only
focus on that because it isimportant. But it does seem to
be that everyone focuses on thatone part and not all of these
other things. I
Virginie De Visscher (10:26):
wouldn't call it frustrating. I would say
focus on the low hanging fruitsfirst, and perhaps the
environmental side is just thelower hanging fruit. It's easier
to do the cultural side. Youhave to think it through a
little bit harder and gettingthe help of the local host
destination and what culturesthey want to showcase are
bringing local art. We've hadworkshops doing local moccasins
(10:47):
and to bring that culture alive.
Kiki L'Italien (10:49):
Oh, that's so fantastic. Okay, so
sustainability has been a majortheme for you at this year's
ASAE meeting. What has motivatedteam Canada? They're so
abstract. So in 2022
Virginie De Visscher (11:00):
when we launched the National Business
Event Sustainability Pplan, itwas comprised of three sections.
So the first part was educationand coaching. So what we
realized is that when people areuncomfortable or don't know the
terms around sustainability,they will be less likely to talk
about it. So phase one wasreally, what does net zero mean?
What does carbon neutral Maine,all these terms. So we rolled
(11:23):
out workshops and educationsessions across the country,
just so many different partners.Phase two was knowing where we
were at. It was benchmarking. Sowe partner with the global
destination SustainabilityIndex, the GDS, and we had 16
destinations across the entirecountry. We're very big. We're
second largest landmass in theworld. So we had 16 destinations
go through that entirebenchmarking process to see
(11:45):
where are we at? Where can weimprove? If you don't know where
you stand, you can't go up,right? So that's what we did.
And phase three is storytelling,and we're right in the midst of
that. So through this wholebenchmarking exercise, we
collected stories, initiativesaround sustainability across the
country, across these threepillars, and we are launching
today our storybook Sosustainability storybook, which
(12:07):
has 30 stories from across thecountry, which are examples of
what you can bring in, like avirtual delegate bag or the
indigenous Fashion Show. There'salso stories about incentives
into sustainability or differentways to impact the communities
that you're living in or havingyour meeting in. And that
(12:29):
storybook has been launched, andwe also have a sustainability
stories pavilion that showcaseseight of these stories here live
at ASAE. It's just perfecttiming of where we wanted to
launch these initiatives.
Kiki L'Italien (12:41):
So earlier, you said that this was something
that was personally important toyou. Can you tell me a little
bit more about that? Why issustainability particularly
important to you? You mean me asa person? Yeah, you as a human
being, an actual individual.
Virginie De Visscher (12:56):
My background is in science and
engineering, and I've alwaysbeen close to the environment in
itself. I've traveled around theworld, lived in Africa for many
years, in Asia, and I've seenthe impacts of the environment,
but also on people around theworld and what we can do and the
changes over time. And I guessit's almost become a personal
passion of mine that I have todo something I believe, very
(13:19):
honestly, in whatever field youend up being, if it's medical or
signage or entertainment or eventourism, you can do something
about it. And so I'm in thetourism industry, I can do
something about it. So I'm usingthat voice and that passion has
to feel really
Kiki L'Italien (13:38):
good. When you go home at night and you're
winding down, you have to feellike, wow, I feel like I'm
actively making a difference, I
Virginie De Visscher (13:46):
wish, but it's a journey, and there's so
much more to do. So I think Iwill continue to be on that
path. I don't think we have anend point on that one.
Kiki L'Italien (13:55):
Okay, we're on the journey together. So part of
that journey is people arecoming into the pavilion.
They're experiencing that here.What's the next step that you
hope that they leave thatpavilion? What do you hope that
they experience and walk awaywith from interacting with Team
Canada?
Virginie De Visscher (14:12):
The way the pavilion is designed is that
for every story, there's aquestion, and it's a question
that hopefully asks forreflection. So it's, have you
thought about incorporating acultural element in your
meeting? Have you thought aboutdoing this or that? And so what
we hope is that booth, by theway, is staffed by a member of
(14:33):
Team Canada, all throughoutwhich will be sharing those
stories. So it's a way to getpeople engaged, and maybe if one
of them, or every person thatvisits, goes away with one idea
that they can bring back totheir meetings, whether it's a
local pop up market in thedestination that they will be
needing to support differentbusinesses that are local, that
(14:54):
would be just so amazing. Sothat's what we really hope to
spur and whether they need inCanada or not. Of course, we.
Want them to meet in Canada, butit's can we impact that change
in all of their meetings when
Kiki L'Italien (15:05):
an association is actually going about trying
to implement sustainabilitypractices or bring that on? I
think you touched on this alittle bit earlier. What are the
challenges that they're facing?Are they trying to bite off more
than they pinch What do you hearthat they're running into when
they're starting to go down thatpath?
Virginie De Visscher (15:24):
There's a variety of reasons, and it's not
always the same for everyone,but here are some of the ones
that I've heard quite a bit. Soone is and in no particular
order, it can be anafterthought. So you know, the
whole machine into sourcing nextmeetings is into place. RFPs
out, so we're ready to look andthen few months before the
meeting, oh, wait a second, didwe look at sustainability? Oh,
(15:47):
that thing, yeah. So it's muchharder to then put back into the
meeting once you've gone so faradding it into the RFP and then
your sourcing process is one wayto go about it. The other
challenge that we get is there'sno one person to point it to. It
Right? It's only starting nowthat you're going to have an
organization's a sustainabilityperson, so usually it ends up
(16:10):
being on the side of the desk ofsomeone for another task to ask
to the meeting planner. And itbecomes big, right? So if it's
not the part of the mission orvision of the organization, it
becomes secondary, so putting itas a priority and having a
person really dedicated to itcan help, and that takes time to
create another one. Isdefinitely the cost. I mentioned
(16:32):
cost before, but by sourcingmore sustainable venues and
sustainable destinations,sometimes that can be avoided
because they're alreadyincorporated in the destination.
So there's ways to get aroundit. We're the sustainability
sponsor for this event, so thatsustainability stations that are
around all the food stations, wesupport that because we believe
in that I have
Kiki L'Italien (16:51):
my bottle of water over here, the diet
reusable bottle of water that Ihave so that I can refill it
periodically. And I do believethat I was reminded ahead of
time to bring that with me, yes,so that I could fill my bottle
with the water around fear, sothat we wouldn't produce more
waste. Is that you're doingabsolutely
Virginie De Visscher (17:11):
we're supporting that. And since you
can bring your reusable waterbottle to the sustainability
stories pavilion and get a freeentry for a free registration
for next year's meeting,
Kiki L'Italien (17:20):
oh my gosh, I think I missed that part
somehow. I think I missed it,but that's really amazing. And I
would be so curious to see Ihave seen a lot of these
reusable water bottles goingaround. So pretty incredible.
And what do you think as far astrying to get leaders to take
ownership of their role inbringing that awareness into
(17:42):
their strategy for theirmeetings, to think about
sustainability, so it isn't anafterthought. I know that
pavilion is part of that, but isthere a way? Is there some sort
of magic that you're weavingthat it can get them to think
about this stuff? It's
Virginie De Visscher (17:56):
one person at a time. It really is. You get
one person inspired and saying,Yeah, I can do that. I can bring
that in. But I really hope, andmaybe that's me, personally,
speaking, the way I really hopeto change the organization,
world, association world, isunderstanding that no matter
what field your association isfocused on, sustainability is
part of it, if you look at it,all encompassing. So yes, maybe
(18:20):
you're in a medical field, andsaving the environment is
definitely not on your radar,but you're all about people. And
so there is something that youcan do to save people, and if
you see it overall, as a companywithin sustainability, that
makes sense. On oursustainability pavilion, we've
actually aligned all thesustainability initiatives with
the United Nations SustainableDevelopment Goals. So when you
(18:41):
look at the 17 un SDGs,everybody can relate to those.
It's a universal framework andblueprint. So by doing that, we
can put in a language thatanybody can take regardless of
what field they're in.
Kiki L'Italien (18:52):
I love that. I love that. And I feel like when
people see the structure behindit and that alignment, it makes
them feel safer to maybe dothings that they'd haven't done
before, right?
Virginie De Visscher (19:02):
It's all about starting. You know, it's
one little step at a time. Don'ttry to chew off the entire thing
at once, because that's reallyhard. Yeah, it's just one small
Kiki L'Italien (19:10):
step. Okay, so I'm going to ask you the hardest
question ever, which is, becauseI know, get ready. You have so
many beautiful destinations, somany beautiful cities. I'm not
going to ask you to playfavorites among your children,
but I am going to ask you forsome examples. Do you have some
examples you could share with meabout some of the fantastic
(19:30):
offerings that really emphasizethe sustainability efforts that
Team Canada is putting forth? Ohmy
Virginie De Visscher (19:36):
goodness, there's so many of them. And so
if I start listing them, I'msure I will forget some and then
I'm gonna have some unhappypartners.
Kiki L'Italien (19:42):
Let me just disclaimer ahead of time, she
loves all of you like you're allloved all the destination
Virginie De Visscher (19:49):
I do, but there's some really fun examples
out there, right? So if you lookat first at venues and what some
venues have done, anything fromgreen roofs to beehives on the
roofs. I'd be remiss. TheVancouver Convention Center is
absolutely amazing with some ofthe energy. I
Kiki L'Italien (20:04):
didn't there. I was like, I actually had that
experience and toured that andthis was even, this is not a
brand new thing, you guys. Thisis something that I don't know.
Maybe it was 10 to eight yearsago I went there, and that was a
huge effort. So Team Canada'snew to this game. You guys have
been trying to do this for along time. Yeah, for sure.
Virginie De Visscher (20:25):
So from the green roof fair to beehives
in Toronto, to solar panels onthe top of the convention center
in Edmonton, to the recyclingand sorting facilities at the
panada conga in Montreal.There's so many amazing things,
including the new BMO center inCalgary. They had a really fun
initiative just recently whenthey did their opening. So they
(20:45):
had listen to this one. This isreally cute story. They had name
badges that were made out ofseed paper. And then they had a
whole activity where they had aplanter box where we could each
plant our name tag, and so nowour name tag would live as
flowers forever on inside thoseplanters.
Kiki L'Italien (21:04):
What I love about that is that we've seen
like the sort of seed tags, butto actually have the ritual, the
actual experience of doing thatvery reobang, it's moving. It's
community building. Every timeyou're looking at what helps
people to feel like they belong,whether it's to a meeting, to a
community of AssociationExecutives. It's like you're
(21:24):
looking for that piece, and thatis something that brings people
to that. I need none of that.That's such a good example.
Virginie De Visscher (21:30):
Who's a beautiful example, but you have
more and more. I was not so longago at the Halifax Convention
Center, and they had their foodstations, and they had a sign in
front explaining where the foodwas coming from. This food came
from this particular farmer, andshowed, really that locality of
supporting local businesses intotheir food. So it was not only
fresh, but it didn't have totravel miles to get there. Just
(21:53):
more and more you're seeingthose examples across the
country, and that makes it supervibrant, and that's only
touching the environmental side.
Kiki L'Italien (21:59):
So in some of these examples that you're
giving me, people can go to thepavilion and they can, like,
learn more about that sort ofthing, and get those ideas, and
get those stories as they'rethinking, maybe considering,
maybe exploring what's evenpossible. Because just as you
were sitting here explainingsome of these to me, I thought,
I wish I could have just acompilation of everything that
(22:23):
you're saying to you, like allof the examples, so that could
go through and just be like,Chase, is this brilliant? Let's
do this.
Virginie De Visscher (22:29):
So at the Pavilion, we can only showcase
eight stories that are there,but in the storybook, you're
gonna have 30 stories. Andagain, that's still just
scratching the surface. So whenyou reach out to us and even to
all of our team Canada,partners, each of them can
really share what they have likein depth, because everybody
wants a different side ofsustainability. Maybe you're not
into the food part of it somuch, but the cultural side's
(22:50):
super important. So it really isa discussion with the
organization about what'simportant to them. Yeah,
Kiki L'Italien (22:57):
I think that sustainability is the key word
here, but it's also aboutexperience, and it's also about
the feeling of belonging, ofhaving a meaningful experience.
When you're engaging with anevent or a meeting and you're
looking for something that isreal,
Virginie De Visscher (23:14):
it's about being inspired. For example, at
one of our events recently,instead of printing menus, we
use little chalkboards. And sowe just put the menu on the
chalkboard, and then when wewere done, we erased it, and
then the next day there was theother menu. So there's just a
little tidbit on how you justsave a lot of paper. And people
thought it was really cute. Ilove that. I think it's
fantastic little ideas likethat. And what happened is a lot
(23:38):
of the clients that were thatevent were like, oh, like you. I
love that. I'm gonna bring thatback to my event. And so that's
how the ideas spread.
Kiki L'Italien (23:45):
I don't know if this is in the pavilion, but
maybe taking ideas too like itinspires you to have ideas. You
build on them, and it's, Oh, Ilike that. And then building on
that. Let me think of this. Isthere a collective area? It's an
idea. Absolutely
Virginie De Visscher (23:59):
question. Yeah, sources of best practices
and things to bring forward.
Kiki L'Italien (24:02):
I love it. I love it. Is there anything that
I didn't ask you to that shit?One thing
Virginie De Visscher (24:07):
I want to mention is the word
sustainability itself. It'salmost like an over loved term,
right? Overused? And whathappens with overused and over
loved terms is that it getspeople away from them. Oh,
again, another talk aboutsustainability. But when you
look, when you think about it,sustainability is sustaining
something. It's maintainingstatus quo. And so is that
(24:29):
really what we want? And so ourthinking now, what's next for us
is looking towards regenerativetourism. How can we actually do
better, rather than stayingwhere we're at? Ooh,
Kiki L'Italien (24:41):
so I'm very intrigued. I like, I love this
idea of building on it, and likegrowing and it's like generating
these new ideas. I think that'sfantastic. I love that
Virginie De Visscher (24:55):
a 2030, Destination Canada strategy is
aiming towards that, and maybewe'll have a. Another chat in a
little while. I
Kiki L'Italien (25:01):
would love to have another chat about that. I
like this idea of like the Oh,I'm getting inspired already. I
love it. I love it. Okay. I amexcited that we got a chance to
be able to do this. We are solucky. High five. You guys are
hearing this clap, I hope in thebackground, because we just high
fived for real, in person. It'sunbelievable. The magic was here
(25:23):
ASE annual doing this inauguralepisode of ASCE Podcast. I'm so
glad we got to do this together.
Virginie De Visscher (25:32):
Thank you so much.
Michelle Mason (25:36):
Thank you for joining us for this episode of
associations now present, wehope the insights and stories
shared today were valuable andinspiring. We look forward to
having you join us again for ournext episode, but until then, be
sure to check out the latestfrom associations
now@associationsnow.com don'tforget to subscribe on Apple
(25:58):
Spotify or wherever you listento your favorite podcast so you
never miss an episode until thenext time. I am Michelle Mason,
and this has been associationsnow present you.
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