May 28, 2025 • 26 mins
Elevate your business and personal life with proven health habits that fuel performance! Sandra Kokotovic dives deep into how maintaining physical and mental wellness is crucial for entrepreneurs. She will share her journey in integrating health into high-stakes marketing strategy, ensuring that hustle doesn’t come at the cost of your well-being. Get tips on creating sustainable habits that magnify your focus, energy, and productivity while achieving your business goals in the biohacking space.
Listen on Podbean:
https://brainworkframework.podbean.com/
Connect with Sandra Kokotovic:
Company Website: https://dataspeaks.ai/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zekecamusio/
Connect with Chris Troka:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-troka-3a093058/
Website: https://focused-biz.com/
Website: https://christroka.com/
#brainwork #framework #business #entrepreneurship #marketing #health #wellness
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I think it's more important to figureout what you want and then work for that.
(00:03):
'cause if you don't figure outwhat you want then other people are
gonna tell you what you should want.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the co founderand creative director of Snap
Advantage, Sandra Kokotovic.
She owns a boutique marketingagency helping brands mostly in the
(00:24):
biohacking and health space scale.
Sandra, thanks so much for joining us.
How are you doing today?
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm doing great.
It's a Tuesday and the sun isshining where I'm calling from.
We're coming from four feet of snow withthree stone storms in the last week alone.
Honestly, I'm happy.
It's bright.
It's sunny.
It's good.
That is wonderful.
It is a bright, sunny day here as well
(00:45):
and we're surviving the snow as well, butwanted to learn more about your journey.
It looks like you started not onlywith building a seven figure e
commerce brand but then startingthis boutique marketing agency.
Tell me more about thisjourney that you went on.
What were you doing before that ledyou into doing what you're doing today?
Yeah, I definitely didn't grow up thinkingI'm going to be a digital marketer.
That was not what I was answering atschool when they were asking you, what
(01:08):
do you want to be when you grow up?
But I always wanted to travel and havefreedom over where I'm located, where I'm
working from and who I'm working with.
Cause that's really important.
You spend so much time at work because wehave to make a living, all of us, most of
us and becoming an ecom entrepreneur anda digital marketing agency owner kind of
(01:29):
happened by chance before this, I thoughtI wanted to work for the government.
So again, I like to travel.
I like my free time.
I come from Romania, justa sidestep and in Romania.
five, six, seven, eight weekvacations per year is a normal thing.
So we're moving to Canada in 2005 and I'mlearning that here two weeks is the norm.
Two weeks is barely like onevacation plus you're taking a
(01:51):
few days off here and there.
So growing up I Love to traveland I like to have time freedom,
so government jobs is it.
That was before the techiescene kind of came to Canada,
the way it was in the States.
So I thought I was going to work forthe government, majored in business in
French, because here you have to speakboth languages fluently and I did that for
a while and definitely not my cup of tea.
(02:14):
I had opportunity to do a lot ofgood work with the employment
sector and then I went into sales.
And I was like, at leastsales is more dynamic.
I can work in a tech companies.
If you make the money, they'll giveyou time off but then I met my current
husband and he was an internet guy.
I had no idea what that was.
I just knew that he was sellingjewelry online and he took me on a
(02:35):
mastermind in Bali where I found aboutinternet marketing and I saw a lot
of marketers that were just sellingthings online with no background in
marketing from anywhere in the world.
And I was like, I'm justgoing to start drop shipping.
I told Serge I don't carewhat you need me to do.
I'll work for a company.
Please hire me.
I want to quit.
So I quit the day after I came backfrom Bali and we started a marketing
(02:56):
agency and that was the journey.
Wow.
That is incredible.
So now from all that experience, fastforward to today, tell me more about
the individuals you help, some ofthe campaigns you're running, just
life now as to where you are today.
Yeah, so I'll tell you one thing.
Throughout the eight years that I'vehad this agency, I haven't been a fan
of taking those guru advices of likeniche down, niche down, niche down.
(03:20):
This was super recent.
So over the last eightyears, it was quite eclectic.
I would say in the best way possiblebecause that allowed me to learn a lot
of marketing strategies and see what welike, what we can do, what we can help.
So We started our agency.
We started working in lead generation.
We work with finance, mortgage, insuranceand I don't want to call them boring
(03:43):
but let's say not so sexy industries.
And we help them get more leads, right?
Anybody that needed anappointment to create business.
But then we started aanother e commerce store.
So we had one when we started our journey,we ended up selling it, we traveled.
Lost a lot of money andhad to make it back.
In the meantime, we starteda hearing aids brand.
(04:04):
So we kind of put ouragency at pause for a while.
Started a hearing aid brand and thatwas one of the two that became a seven
figure store in the first year actuallybut then I got shut down by meta ads.
I was a victim, like a lot of otherbusiness owners slash coaches,
entrepreneurs, and anyone that's runmeta ads they've been victimized by it.
I can assure you.
(04:25):
So we lost our account.
We lost our six figure monthsand we're like, Oh boy.
What do we do now?
Because we rely on ads to make money.
And we said, you know what, let'sfigure out how else we can scale.
So then we started focusing moreon content marketing, Pinterest,
influencers, partners, brand ambassadors,email marketing, text marketing.
(04:45):
And when we saw that thatworked, we were like,
let's work with brands that weknow have the same problems.
So I told you I like traveling in2020, January, we sold everything
we had and we moved to Thailand.
And in March, we had tocome back because of COVID.
So we came back to Canada.
We're like, this is a perfect opportunityto help businesses that need help because
it's so chaotic out there right now.
(05:06):
So then the journey has become.
Let's help brands that need toscale, that have hit a ceiling.
Maybe there are a few million dollarsa year but they can't really put
in the same dollar in and get thesame amount of dollars out from ads,
whether it's Google or Meta, andsee how else we can help them scale.
And we started helping them scale byeither building their brand assets
(05:27):
like an email list or a text message orleveraging assets they currently have.
That could also mean influencers, brandambassadors, anything they can own and
leverage that is not dependent solely ona platform because when you're bidding
on Meta, for instance, you're competingon the same piece of expensive real
estate called a feed, tough, right?
(05:48):
It's easier to be in someone's inboxor easier to be on an influencers.
Video for instance.
So then we started working withcompanies that needed that service.
So niching down to biohacking andwellness, it just happened that we started
working with a lot of biohacking companieseverything from like peptides and red
light therapy, cryotherapy, cold plunges.
(06:10):
You name it.
And we just started to moveinto that direction but it's
definitely been very eclectic.
That is such a cool journeyand it's important not to put
all your eggs in one basket.
Unfortunately, many people havesuffered from the hands of Meta or
the hands of Google as well, whereunfortunately relying on those channels.
I think it's just important totake a multi channel approach.
(06:31):
People prefer email or direct messageor prefer being served ads in a
different way, that's how you want toconnect with them and then serve them.
And the past eight years from being foreverybody, but having some specifics
and now niching down, what do youthink is the biggest reason for success?
Cause it's like.
Whatever business you decideto start is successful.
Why, how, what is that secretingredient that you can just walk in
(06:54):
anywhere and just figure things out?
Not every business Istarted was successful.
I like to talk about a successful onesbetween the first seven figure store
and the second seven figure store.
There was a lot of money spent, a lotof lessons learned And it came to a
point where we were honestly broke.
We went back to work but in termsof the key to success, I would say
(07:17):
show up and do the damn work, man.
Things that are so obvious to some ofus, they're not so obvious to others.
And it's so easy to get discouraged,especially when you're at the beginning
of the journey and it's so easy to say,I'm not attacking any group of people, any
mentality here but maybe the mentality alittle bit, because mentality is a choice.
But I think we live a little bit inthe entitlement phase, especially
(07:38):
from a certain generation.
I'm attacking but we are entitled, right?
So, there's a lot of TikTok videos wherethey're talking about, like, it's 5.
01 p. m. I'm going to hit close on theZoom call or if they want to give me more
responsibilities, they should pay me more.
Versus, I grew up but the mentality thatI grew up in was, Hey, I'm going to do
anything I can to have access to my boss,my boss's boss, my boss's boss's boss.
(08:04):
And if that means getting moreprojects, heck yeah, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to earn the same right nowfor a few months but at least I'm
going to gain the experience thatI'm going to hit them with the bill.
So I feel like just showing up anddoing the work and just being the
hardest worker around you or in yourecosystem honestly is half of the battle.
That's also like an immigrant mentalitybecause we come here to the West,
(08:26):
to North America, Canada, right?
I didn't speak English when I moved here.
We had no background on what Canadawas to be honest other than what
my one uncle that lived here said.
We just knew we wanted a better life.
I got scolded at school in the first daybecause I wasn't standing for the anthem.
You have to stand andbe quiet for the anthem.
I had no idea.
So as an immigrant, you have to behardworking because you don't have
(08:47):
friends, you don't speak the language,you don't know the culture and what
you have is honestly the books, right?
And that work ethic and then your parentsare like engineers back home, they come
here and they just like work at OldNavy and Whatever else my parents did.
So I'll say that be a hard worker.
Second is solve problems.
So what I learned is that people,your worth is not determined
(09:10):
by what you think you're worth.
Your worth is determined bythe problems that you solve.
Like you're not worth a million dollarsunless you solve a million dollar problem.
So.
If you solve problems,you're going to get paid.
I learned that people don't careabout your background so much.
They don't care about Like, I was in myearly 20s, when I started doing this.
I was just like chick and I don't wantguys to call me sweetie and think I
(09:31):
don't have experience and whatever.
Nobody cared.
I was afraid to work from other countriesbecause people would think that I'm
going to scam them but what I realizedis that You need to solve problems.
And the more expensive, themore painful the problems, the
more money you're going to make.
It's not just about making sure youtake everything down on a list of scope.
It's about the problems that you solve.
(09:52):
So, number one, I'm doing three things,because there's a lot of things that help
me but number one is outwork everybody.
Number two is solve problems.
Just figure out how to solve problems.
And number three, I would say, Whoeveryou work with, make them look good.
Did it take me a while to learn this?
Like if you're working, those peoplewill always have either investors they
(10:13):
have to answer to customers, they have areputation to uphold in front of another
boss, another partner, another manager.
If you make them look good, thenthey're going to reward you.
So looking good doesn't mean likecomplimenting them and whatever but
I have clients that are head officeneeds blah, blah, blah strategy.
Can you do this for me?
And I'm like, yeah, I will and I'lldo it within the day and I'll package
(10:34):
it up and I'll just give them apresentation, put their name on it.
Not even mine.
Why?
Because they're going to comeback to me and they're going
to give me more business.
They're going to be in mycorner and they look good.
I look good.
Everybody wins.
So I would say these three things,if I've been putting them in
practice lately, it's what's beenhelping me keep moving forward.
So yeah, outwork everybody, solveexpensive problems and make the
(10:59):
people that are paying you look goodand I think it's a good headstart.
My God, I'm sorry.
That was a very long answer.
No, I was going to open this upfor a top 10 actually cause I'm
like, just keep those coming
cause the top threewere already fantastic.
One, you even got to showup and do the damn work.
I can't tell you how many entrepreneursfail because they're just not
willing to show up and to do thework and I think later on they either
realize that or it takes a littletime for them to get through that.
(11:22):
Number two and three is absolutelyexcellent as well because again, it's not
based on what you think your value is.
It's based on what other people arewilling to pay for that and oftentimes you
can blow your own expectations a littlebit and be like, wow people are willing
to pay that amount for this service
Absolutely.
Where I was eight years ago Iwouldn't even be dreaming of what
i'm charging right now to be honest.
(11:43):
And the reason is becauseI had a limited mindset.
And my mind is like, I wouldn'tpay that much money for a service.
Why would someone else paythat much money for a service?
And then what I realized is, back toproblem solving, the companies that I
work with the people that I work with,it's not like they don't know how to
Google or figure out a solution isthat they don't have a time and their
(12:03):
attention is being spent somewhere else.
So if you're thinking aboutthe most successful businesses
and people in the world.
What are they?
What is the most precious things to them?
Right?
It's time and attention.
Like you only have so manydecisions you can make in a day.
It's not like a 20 mila year company owner
doesn't know how towrite an email campaign.
They absolutely do.
(12:24):
They can figure it out but theyjust don't have the bandwidth to do
that over and over again every day.
So when I realized that I don'thave to know everything right now.
I just have to figure out how to solveproblems and I just continued learning
and learning like I'm born knowingClavio or MailChimp or whatever.
Frankly, I have to doa HubSpot project soon.
I haven't worked with HubSpot in a whilebut like I'm going to figure it out.
(12:47):
And my client is okay with it thatI'm not that familiar with it because
he knows that I can figure it outand solve that problem for him.
Yes, absolutely.
It's not always knowing abouteverything just being willing to
learn more and to figure stuff out.
Just as you mentioned a lot of theseCEOs and companies, they're just
willing to pay someone who knows
either a little bit more or can justsimply take something off their plate.
(13:07):
Exactly.
They're willing to hire out for thoseservices because either they can't do
it in house or it's going to be cheaperjust to do a one time thing with this or
they're testing a few different agencies.
It's the benefit of having a tempworker where you could potentially
cycle through a few differentones to find the right fit.
That's one of the benefits.
So the work that you're doing for clients,it was within the lead generation and
(13:29):
now you're going into a different space.
Is it still focused on thelead generation of getting the
booked appointments to show up?
How do you kind of go through thatprocess with your clients and what
strategies are you implementingfor them right now in 2025?
Yeah.
I've been trying very hard to keep atone service and nobody wants one service.
Everybody wants everything becausethe ecosystem works together.
(13:50):
So to give you like a plain picture,we decided to niche down more into
the biohacking and wellness space.
Now, within that space, there'stwo types of businesses.
One, it's like local brickand mortar service businesses.
I imagine a biohacking lab, coalplant, sauna, day spa, those kinds
of places and then there's also theecon companies like a red light panel
(14:11):
or coal plants you can buy for home.
So We work with both and that's becausewe've had training in both and we've
had so many case studies in both.
So for the local businesses, weare doing the whole legion system.
From the cold ad, getting people intolike a county sort of whatever system
they're using, getting them to bookappointments, following up with them
(14:31):
and making sure they get show up to theappointments and then in between all of
that, we're adding in content marketing,local SEO, influencer, marketing,
brand ambassadors and email and text.
Now for the e com brands, usually wework with the companies that are already
doing ads and they don't want to spendmore money on ads in order to scale.
So maybe they have an email listbut they're not using it that much.
(14:53):
I've worked with companies that hadan email list of like 150, 000 people,
subscribers and they never used that.
They're like one time customers.
I haven't emailed them in like ayear and I'm like, Oh, my goodness,
we can do so much with that.
We did 2 million in one yearwith that one email list.
So these are the companies that needto scale and they need to diversify,
whether that's diversifying trafficsources or just diversify what they're
(15:15):
doing with their current assets.
They're saying one campaign a weeknow but they need to be sending
five and different types of emails.
Maybe they don't have arewards points program.
They need more referrals.
They need more repeat businesses.
Maybe they are doing okay withads but they need to diversify the
type of ads they're doing, right?
Like they're not doing TikTok,they're not doing Pinterest.
So for those companies, we'rediversifying their traffic sources
(15:37):
and then their digital assets.
So those are the kind of projectsthat we're involved with right now.
I love that.
And when you spoke about how wetried doing one service but then
the clients wanted more, it justhad to go back to full service
and it is just a part of the fullsystem, the ecosystem that is created
because once you're creating thiscontent, you need that anyways then
(15:57):
that can be optimized for SEO and thenthat can be broken down into shorts
and small pieces of social content.
So if you're doing one piece, mightas well just do a little bit of
everything because it's a part ofyour entire brand, the visibility,
the way that leads are nurtured.
Maybe just a single email can convincesomeone to buy but what helped nurture
them along that journey is the blogposts that you made about that and the
(16:20):
video and the social media that they saw.
So all of that really playsinto the buyer's journey
and their decision process.
That's bingo.
That's exactly it.
So my dream of being an email marketer,working my sweatpants from behind the
scenes and pounding through emails.
Don't know if it's that feasibleanymore and I am okay with it.
It's just setting up the journey thatyou want for your life at that time
and just playing with the handthat you're dealt with the cards.
(16:44):
Especially, I think a lot ofus, many entrepreneurs, we were
going to new heights in 2020.
That was the next year and thenit absolutely crashing down.
So the fact that two months prior,you had already sold everything,
made this life changing decisionand then had to run back to it.
Something to be said about runningout of money or just the fear to be a
motivator for us in our own businesses.
(17:04):
It's kind of like, wow.
When the fire is really lit under you,it's incredible what we're capable of
doing and what we can accomplish insuch a small amount of time when you
get to that level of comfort whereyou have more financial security.
Does your motivation change at all?
Are you less or more motivatedseeing more money coming in?
(17:26):
Yeah, I feel like I do and yes.
So when we sold everything, actuallythe first time we left for Bali
in Thailand in 2017 and we cameback with tail between our legs.
We had a lot of failed ventures.
We tried it all from phone cases,canvases, t shirts, mugs, we tried
so many things and they just didn'twork out and we had to go back to
work but honestly, our jobs are onlygood enough to pay for our bills.
(17:49):
They're not good enoughto pay for the debt.
They were not good enough to payfor growth and for the future.
So we worked in the morningsfrom like 5am until 8am.
We worked on our business and thenwent to work and then at night again.
Now I have been so stressed about money.
My biggest fear for years and yearswas, I don't want to go broke.
Part of it is because I wentbroke and I don't want that again.
(18:10):
It's so uncomfortable.
So that just kept me drivingand driving but then again,
even this growth was not linear.
It was up and down.
Now my fear is not going brokeagain because I've been broke.
I've done it before.
I know what I can charge.
I can charge again.
I can find clients again.
So I feel like the more you dosomething, the more confidence you
have, you're going to do it again.
If everything failed for me tomorrow,let's say all of my clients left, all of
(18:34):
my team left, and it was just me, I'd belike, okay, I know exactly what to do.
It's going to be uncomfortable andannoying but I know what to do.
Now, as for the motivationto keep going, yes.
The motivation goes away a little bitwhen you're starting to have a little
bit more success when you are comfortableand I feel comfort zone is one of the
most dangerous freaking places you canbe in so what we started doing, we had
(18:54):
stores that worked really well whenwe had our like Million dollar story.
We were making good profitsbut we were spending money.
We're balling in Bali and instead ofthinking how can we grow even more?
We we're close coasting.
Now what we started doingis we have bigger goals.
We push ourselves to new limits.
We find projects for growth.
We're taking on bigger clients thatwe have to perform better and we're
(19:17):
just on a path for more and more.
So we keep stretching ourselvesto continue growing and
then I like to spend money.
My husband today was like, isthat another Sephora package?
And I'm like, yes, it is.
But then one of my friends called me rightbefore this podcast and she's like, I love
your Sephora pilot and I'm like, Sephora.
See, that's that's thesupport that I need in my life.
But what we do is, we thinkabout the goals and then we
(19:40):
keep working on those goals.
We want to have some sort of success.
Then I'm going to get out of debt.
We got out of debt.
What is the next thing?
Well, the next thing is we wantto travel but I want to travel and
afford to eat out and blah, blah.
So we keep pushing the goal higherand higher, Grant Cardone style and
you have to show up and perform.
I have a team, I have clients.
I can't just like screw off in Bali.
(20:01):
Even if I go to Bali, I have to work.
So it can be demotivating though.
I'm sorry.
I know long answers here but itcan be demotivating but also like
motivation comes and goes, right?
I think it's more important to figureout what you want and then work for that
cause if you don't figure out whatyou want, then other people are going
to tell you what you should want.
Other people are going to tellyou what you should deserve.
But if you keep pushing the goal and thetargets, then you create your narrative
(20:25):
and you're going to stay motivated.
Like, I like myself for us though.
So I'm going to keep workingso I can afford myself
and anything I can do to supportthat I'm going to continue
doing but those are your goals.
That's what you're hoping for and onething that you mentioned that really
drove home is about you willing toshow up and put in that work and
you've been broke before.
You've had failures butyou've been successful.
(20:45):
You can do it again.
You can absolutely repeat thatagain but the biggest thing is
that you're constantly pushingyourself to striving to be better
and that comfort level of wanting tochallenge ourselves and do something
more outside of our comfort zone.
That becomes easier once the comfort levelof staying the same just eats away at us.
We're like, Oh my goodness, I can'timagine doing something new versus
(21:08):
I can't imagine staying the sameand expecting the same results.
Exactly.
And there's exercises for this.
The first day of my one good job that Ihad in SAIL, I had a mentor and he told
me something that stuck with me and Ithink it'll stick with me for a long time.
He said, do something thatscares you every day and I was
doing cold calls at that time.
(21:29):
I was doing a hundred cold calls a day.
That was very scary to call peopleand I say comfort zone is one of the
most dangerous places you can be in.
I like to be comfortable in my sweatpants.
Don't get me wrong.
I like to be comfortable on the couch.
I like to watch Netflix.
But to me, there's no biggersatisfaction than building something,
conquering something and then justfeeling like, yeah, man, I did it.
Whether that's like a diet orworking out or money or a new
(21:52):
client or something like that.
If anyone's like looking to how do I getout of the comfort zone a little bit?
I mean, one thing you cando is build a podcast.
It is pretty freaking scaryto put yourself out there.
You don't know what guestsyou're going to have.
You don't know how they're going to react.
What they're going to do.
You don't know how they'regoing to promote your content.
Being a guest on a podcast canbe one making a phone call, like
a cold call doing cold plunges,like cold showers in the morning.
(22:15):
I'm so annoyed.
Like I have these 10 pounds of fat.
I'd really want to do that too.
And I was like, for the next few weeks,I'm going to do two workouts a day.
And it is insane because I'm exhausted.
Like this day too.
I'm doing cardio in the morning and I'mdoing weights at night and it was so
hard to do especially after yesterdaybecause when I just started yesterday
(22:36):
and today I showed up like I did itand now I did this hard thing in the
morning people don't like cardio okayI did this hard thing in the morning.
Nothing can faze me today, I wassweating in the other room on that
bike, I was sweating, I was drenched,I'm sore from yesterday, I have to show
up again tonight, but I'm ready forthe day, you do a cold shower after,
like nothing's gonna faze you, you'reprepared, so there's exercises you can
(22:59):
do to push yourself and then it setsup your day in such a much better way.
My opinion.
Absolutely.
Challenge ourselves doing somethingthat you really don't want to do just
to start the day or even taking ona work project that, okay, if I just
take care of the really hard onefirst, I can get that out of the way
and that sets us up for a better day.
We start making better decisionsto start influencing us to make
(23:22):
better decisions, better actions andthat's really important, especially
trying to look at that goal.
What do I need to achieve it?
And then no matter how much pain you'rein, how sore you are or how tired
you are, you're still showing up andyou're going to give a hundred percent.
Our business ownerssweating in their business.
Are they really pushing themselves?
Are they working out as hard or are theyjust kind of like casually walking around?
(23:44):
Maybe a brisk walk but whateverworks for them and their goals and
their business but it's importantto set your mindset, right.
Starting the day and challengingyourself, pushing yourself even further.
I think so too.
And again, have a goal in my opinion,having a goal so much for any sort
of success in any area of your life.
Absolutely.
Sandra, now where can peoplefind out more about you?
Get connected with you online?
(24:06):
Sure.
I am on LinkedIn a lot.
So Sandra Kokotowicz is my LinkedIn name.
I am redoing my website rightnow, snap advantage.com.
So it is kinda like in constructionbut snap advantage.com or
look up sandra Kokotovic onLinkedIn or Instagram or TikTok.
I'm on all social media channel.
Very nice.
And we'll have those links available downat the show notes and the description.
(24:28):
Sandra just a few minutes left,but we wanted to ask you, what are
you looking forward to in 2025?
Seems like you get some excitingirons in the fire right now,
maybe some more travel plans.
What are you looking forward to?
Definitely travel plans.
I have a lot of trips planned.
So I'm taking advantage of being in NorthAmerica right now and I definitely want to
come back to the States for a little bit.
I haven't visited the States in a while,so hopefully I can do some California,
(24:51):
Oregon and Washington little trip, maybeeven like Stop in Vegas on the way back.
I love Vegas.
Me too.
It's a great place.
It's magical.
Exactly.
Maybe some islands and then I'mgoing to go back to Europe for a
few months and then check out somewine and croissants and cheeses in
terms of work, I am super excitedto start launching some Good guides,
(25:14):
hopefully, ideally, a little course.
So I said that I cannot do onething and I cannot clone myself.
And unfortunately, we are limited withwhat we're doing within our business.
And not everybody isready to work with us.
Not everybody needs to work with us yet.
So my solution to that is if I canhelp a business in any way, whether
that is through a mini course or someguides, checklists, any sort of content
(25:36):
I can help with I'm planning to dothat in the later part of the year.
So yeah, stay tuned.
They're going to be on the website.
That is very exciting.
Always good to have content that justanswers a lot of those common questions,
nurtures them along in the journey andanything that helps you put your knowledge
out there that helps other people.
That is a win win for us in our business.
Sandra, we appreciate your time.
Thanks for coming on andsharing your journey with us.
(25:57):
Wish you all the best andcongratulations to you.
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.
I think it's more important to figureout what you want and then work for that.
(00:03):
'cause if you don't figure outwhat you want then other people are
gonna tell you what you should want.
You are listening to Brainwork Framework,a Business and Marketing podcast,
brought to you by Focused-biz.com.
Welcome back to another episode.
With us today is the co founderand creative director of Snap
Advantage, Sandra Kokotovic.
She owns a boutique marketingagency helping brands mostly in the
(00:24):
biohacking and health space scale.
Sandra, thanks so much for joining us.
How are you doing today?
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm doing great.
It's a Tuesday and the sun isshining where I'm calling from.
We're coming from four feet of snow withthree stone storms in the last week alone.
Honestly, I'm happy.
It's bright.
It's sunny.
It's good.
That is wonderful.
It is a bright, sunny day here as well
(00:45):
and we're surviving the snow as well, butwanted to learn more about your journey.
It looks like you started not onlywith building a seven figure e
commerce brand but then startingthis boutique marketing agency.
Tell me more about thisjourney that you went on.
What were you doing before that ledyou into doing what you're doing today?
Yeah, I definitely didn't grow up thinkingI'm going to be a digital marketer.
That was not what I was answering atschool when they were asking you, what
(01:08):
do you want to be when you grow up?
But I always wanted to travel and havefreedom over where I'm located, where I'm
working from and who I'm working with.
Cause that's really important.
You spend so much time at work because wehave to make a living, all of us, most of
us and becoming an ecom entrepreneur anda digital marketing agency owner kind of
(01:29):
happened by chance before this, I thoughtI wanted to work for the government.
So again, I like to travel.
I like my free time.
I come from Romania, justa sidestep and in Romania.
five, six, seven, eight weekvacations per year is a normal thing.
So we're moving to Canada in 2005 and I'mlearning that here two weeks is the norm.
Two weeks is barely like onevacation plus you're taking a
(01:51):
few days off here and there.
So growing up I Love to traveland I like to have time freedom,
so government jobs is it.
That was before the techiescene kind of came to Canada,
the way it was in the States.
So I thought I was going to work forthe government, majored in business in
French, because here you have to speakboth languages fluently and I did that for
a while and definitely not my cup of tea.
(02:14):
I had opportunity to do a lot ofgood work with the employment
sector and then I went into sales.
And I was like, at leastsales is more dynamic.
I can work in a tech companies.
If you make the money, they'll giveyou time off but then I met my current
husband and he was an internet guy.
I had no idea what that was.
I just knew that he was sellingjewelry online and he took me on a
(02:35):
mastermind in Bali where I found aboutinternet marketing and I saw a lot
of marketers that were just sellingthings online with no background in
marketing from anywhere in the world.
And I was like, I'm justgoing to start drop shipping.
I told Serge I don't carewhat you need me to do.
I'll work for a company.
Please hire me.
I want to quit.
So I quit the day after I came backfrom Bali and we started a marketing
(02:56):
agency and that was the journey.
Wow.
That is incredible.
So now from all that experience, fastforward to today, tell me more about
the individuals you help, some ofthe campaigns you're running, just
life now as to where you are today.
Yeah, so I'll tell you one thing.
Throughout the eight years that I'vehad this agency, I haven't been a fan
of taking those guru advices of likeniche down, niche down, niche down.
(03:20):
This was super recent.
So over the last eightyears, it was quite eclectic.
I would say in the best way possiblebecause that allowed me to learn a lot
of marketing strategies and see what welike, what we can do, what we can help.
So We started our agency.
We started working in lead generation.
We work with finance, mortgage, insuranceand I don't want to call them boring
(03:43):
but let's say not so sexy industries.
And we help them get more leads, right?
Anybody that needed anappointment to create business.
But then we started aanother e commerce store.
So we had one when we started our journey,we ended up selling it, we traveled.
Lost a lot of money andhad to make it back.
In the meantime, we starteda hearing aids brand.
(04:04):
So we kind of put ouragency at pause for a while.
Started a hearing aid brand and thatwas one of the two that became a seven
figure store in the first year actuallybut then I got shut down by meta ads.
I was a victim, like a lot of otherbusiness owners slash coaches,
entrepreneurs, and anyone that's runmeta ads they've been victimized by it.
I can assure you.
(04:25):
So we lost our account.
We lost our six figure monthsand we're like, Oh boy.
What do we do now?
Because we rely on ads to make money.
And we said, you know what, let'sfigure out how else we can scale.
So then we started focusing moreon content marketing, Pinterest,
influencers, partners, brand ambassadors,email marketing, text marketing.
(04:45):
And when we saw that thatworked, we were like,
let's work with brands that weknow have the same problems.
So I told you I like traveling in2020, January, we sold everything
we had and we moved to Thailand.
And in March, we had tocome back because of COVID.
So we came back to Canada.
We're like, this is a perfect opportunityto help businesses that need help because
it's so chaotic out there right now.
(05:06):
So then the journey has become.
Let's help brands that need toscale, that have hit a ceiling.
Maybe there are a few million dollarsa year but they can't really put
in the same dollar in and get thesame amount of dollars out from ads,
whether it's Google or Meta, andsee how else we can help them scale.
And we started helping them scale byeither building their brand assets
(05:27):
like an email list or a text message orleveraging assets they currently have.
That could also mean influencers, brandambassadors, anything they can own and
leverage that is not dependent solely ona platform because when you're bidding
on Meta, for instance, you're competingon the same piece of expensive real
estate called a feed, tough, right?
(05:48):
It's easier to be in someone's inboxor easier to be on an influencers.
Video for instance.
So then we started working withcompanies that needed that service.
So niching down to biohacking andwellness, it just happened that we started
working with a lot of biohacking companieseverything from like peptides and red
light therapy, cryotherapy, cold plunges.
(06:10):
You name it.
And we just started to moveinto that direction but it's
definitely been very eclectic.
That is such a cool journeyand it's important not to put
all your eggs in one basket.
Unfortunately, many people havesuffered from the hands of Meta or
the hands of Google as well, whereunfortunately relying on those channels.
I think it's just important totake a multi channel approach.
(06:31):
People prefer email or direct messageor prefer being served ads in a
different way, that's how you want toconnect with them and then serve them.
And the past eight years from being foreverybody, but having some specifics
and now niching down, what do youthink is the biggest reason for success?
Cause it's like.
Whatever business you decideto start is successful.
Why, how, what is that secretingredient that you can just walk in
(06:54):
anywhere and just figure things out?
Not every business Istarted was successful.
I like to talk about a successful onesbetween the first seven figure store
and the second seven figure store.
There was a lot of money spent, a lotof lessons learned And it came to a
point where we were honestly broke.
We went back to work but in termsof the key to success, I would say
(07:17):
show up and do the damn work, man.
Things that are so obvious to some ofus, they're not so obvious to others.
And it's so easy to get discouraged,especially when you're at the beginning
of the journey and it's so easy to say,I'm not attacking any group of people, any
mentality here but maybe the mentality alittle bit, because mentality is a choice.
But I think we live a little bit inthe entitlement phase, especially
(07:38):
from a certain generation.
I'm attacking but we are entitled, right?
So, there's a lot of TikTok videos wherethey're talking about, like, it's 5.
01 p. m. I'm going to hit close on theZoom call or if they want to give me more
responsibilities, they should pay me more.
Versus, I grew up but the mentality thatI grew up in was, Hey, I'm going to do
anything I can to have access to my boss,my boss's boss, my boss's boss's boss.
(08:04):
And if that means getting moreprojects, heck yeah, I'm going to do it.
I'm going to earn the same right nowfor a few months but at least I'm
going to gain the experience thatI'm going to hit them with the bill.
So I feel like just showing up anddoing the work and just being the
hardest worker around you or in yourecosystem honestly is half of the battle.
That's also like an immigrant mentalitybecause we come here to the West,
(08:26):
to North America, Canada, right?
I didn't speak English when I moved here.
We had no background on what Canadawas to be honest other than what
my one uncle that lived here said.
We just knew we wanted a better life.
I got scolded at school in the first daybecause I wasn't standing for the anthem.
You have to stand andbe quiet for the anthem.
I had no idea.
So as an immigrant, you have to behardworking because you don't have
(08:47):
friends, you don't speak the language,you don't know the culture and what
you have is honestly the books, right?
And that work ethic and then your parentsare like engineers back home, they come
here and they just like work at OldNavy and Whatever else my parents did.
So I'll say that be a hard worker.
Second is solve problems.
So what I learned is that people,your worth is not determined
(09:10):
by what you think you're worth.
Your worth is determined bythe problems that you solve.
Like you're not worth a million dollarsunless you solve a million dollar problem.
So.
If you solve problems,you're going to get paid.
I learned that people don't careabout your background so much.
They don't care about Like, I was in myearly 20s, when I started doing this.
I was just like chick and I don't wantguys to call me sweetie and think I
(09:31):
don't have experience and whatever.
Nobody cared.
I was afraid to work from other countriesbecause people would think that I'm
going to scam them but what I realizedis that You need to solve problems.
And the more expensive, themore painful the problems, the
more money you're going to make.
It's not just about making sure youtake everything down on a list of scope.
It's about the problems that you solve.
(09:52):
So, number one, I'm doing three things,because there's a lot of things that help
me but number one is outwork everybody.
Number two is solve problems.
Just figure out how to solve problems.
And number three, I would say, Whoeveryou work with, make them look good.
Did it take me a while to learn this?
Like if you're working, those peoplewill always have either investors they
(10:13):
have to answer to customers, they have areputation to uphold in front of another
boss, another partner, another manager.
If you make them look good, thenthey're going to reward you.
So looking good doesn't mean likecomplimenting them and whatever but
I have clients that are head officeneeds blah, blah, blah strategy.
Can you do this for me?
And I'm like, yeah, I will and I'lldo it within the day and I'll package
(10:34):
it up and I'll just give them apresentation, put their name on it.
Not even mine.
Why?
Because they're going to comeback to me and they're going
to give me more business.
They're going to be in mycorner and they look good.
I look good.
Everybody wins.
So I would say these three things,if I've been putting them in
practice lately, it's what's beenhelping me keep moving forward.
So yeah, outwork everybody, solveexpensive problems and make the
(10:59):
people that are paying you look goodand I think it's a good headstart.
My God, I'm sorry.
That was a very long answer.
No, I was going to open this upfor a top 10 actually cause I'm
like, just keep those coming
cause the top threewere already fantastic.
One, you even got to showup and do the damn work.
I can't tell you how many entrepreneursfail because they're just not
willing to show up and to do thework and I think later on they either
realize that or it takes a littletime for them to get through that.
(11:22):
Number two and three is absolutelyexcellent as well because again, it's not
based on what you think your value is.
It's based on what other people arewilling to pay for that and oftentimes you
can blow your own expectations a littlebit and be like, wow people are willing
to pay that amount for this service
Absolutely.
Where I was eight years ago Iwouldn't even be dreaming of what
i'm charging right now to be honest.
(11:43):
And the reason is becauseI had a limited mindset.
And my mind is like, I wouldn'tpay that much money for a service.
Why would someone else paythat much money for a service?
And then what I realized is, back toproblem solving, the companies that I
work with the people that I work with,it's not like they don't know how to
Google or figure out a solution isthat they don't have a time and their
(12:03):
attention is being spent somewhere else.
So if you're thinking aboutthe most successful businesses
and people in the world.
What are they?
What is the most precious things to them?
Right?
It's time and attention.
Like you only have so manydecisions you can make in a day.
It's not like a 20 mila year company owner
doesn't know how towrite an email campaign.
They absolutely do.
(12:24):
They can figure it out but theyjust don't have the bandwidth to do
that over and over again every day.
So when I realized that I don'thave to know everything right now.
I just have to figure out how to solveproblems and I just continued learning
and learning like I'm born knowingClavio or MailChimp or whatever.
Frankly, I have to doa HubSpot project soon.
I haven't worked with HubSpot in a whilebut like I'm going to figure it out.
(12:47):
And my client is okay with it thatI'm not that familiar with it because
he knows that I can figure it outand solve that problem for him.
Yes, absolutely.
It's not always knowing abouteverything just being willing to
learn more and to figure stuff out.
Just as you mentioned a lot of theseCEOs and companies, they're just
willing to pay someone who knows
either a little bit more or can justsimply take something off their plate.
(13:07):
Exactly.
They're willing to hire out for thoseservices because either they can't do
it in house or it's going to be cheaperjust to do a one time thing with this or
they're testing a few different agencies.
It's the benefit of having a tempworker where you could potentially
cycle through a few differentones to find the right fit.
That's one of the benefits.
So the work that you're doing for clients,it was within the lead generation and
(13:29):
now you're going into a different space.
Is it still focused on thelead generation of getting the
booked appointments to show up?
How do you kind of go through thatprocess with your clients and what
strategies are you implementingfor them right now in 2025?
Yeah.
I've been trying very hard to keep atone service and nobody wants one service.
Everybody wants everything becausethe ecosystem works together.
(13:50):
So to give you like a plain picture,we decided to niche down more into
the biohacking and wellness space.
Now, within that space, there'stwo types of businesses.
One, it's like local brickand mortar service businesses.
I imagine a biohacking lab, coalplant, sauna, day spa, those kinds
of places and then there's also theecon companies like a red light panel
(14:11):
or coal plants you can buy for home.
So We work with both and that's becausewe've had training in both and we've
had so many case studies in both.
So for the local businesses, weare doing the whole legion system.
From the cold ad, getting people intolike a county sort of whatever system
they're using, getting them to bookappointments, following up with them
(14:31):
and making sure they get show up to theappointments and then in between all of
that, we're adding in content marketing,local SEO, influencer, marketing,
brand ambassadors and email and text.
Now for the e com brands, usually wework with the companies that are already
doing ads and they don't want to spendmore money on ads in order to scale.
So maybe they have an email listbut they're not using it that much.
(14:53):
I've worked with companies that hadan email list of like 150, 000 people,
subscribers and they never used that.
They're like one time customers.
I haven't emailed them in like ayear and I'm like, Oh, my goodness,
we can do so much with that.
We did 2 million in one yearwith that one email list.
So these are the companies that needto scale and they need to diversify,
whether that's diversifying trafficsources or just diversify what they're
(15:15):
doing with their current assets.
They're saying one campaign a weeknow but they need to be sending
five and different types of emails.
Maybe they don't have arewards points program.
They need more referrals.
They need more repeat businesses.
Maybe they are doing okay withads but they need to diversify the
type of ads they're doing, right?
Like they're not doing TikTok,they're not doing Pinterest.
So for those companies, we'rediversifying their traffic sources
(15:37):
and then their digital assets.
So those are the kind of projectsthat we're involved with right now.
I love that.
And when you spoke about how wetried doing one service but then
the clients wanted more, it justhad to go back to full service
and it is just a part of the fullsystem, the ecosystem that is created
because once you're creating thiscontent, you need that anyways then
(15:57):
that can be optimized for SEO and thenthat can be broken down into shorts
and small pieces of social content.
So if you're doing one piece, mightas well just do a little bit of
everything because it's a part ofyour entire brand, the visibility,
the way that leads are nurtured.
Maybe just a single email can convincesomeone to buy but what helped nurture
them along that journey is the blogposts that you made about that and the
(16:20):
video and the social media that they saw.
So all of that really playsinto the buyer's journey
and their decision process.
That's bingo.
That's exactly it.
So my dream of being an email marketer,working my sweatpants from behind the
scenes and pounding through emails.
Don't know if it's that feasibleanymore and I am okay with it.
It's just setting up the journey thatyou want for your life at that time
and just playing with the handthat you're dealt with the cards.
(16:44):
Especially, I think a lot ofus, many entrepreneurs, we were
going to new heights in 2020.
That was the next year and thenit absolutely crashing down.
So the fact that two months prior,you had already sold everything,
made this life changing decisionand then had to run back to it.
Something to be said about runningout of money or just the fear to be a
motivator for us in our own businesses.
(17:04):
It's kind of like, wow.
When the fire is really lit under you,it's incredible what we're capable of
doing and what we can accomplish insuch a small amount of time when you
get to that level of comfort whereyou have more financial security.
Does your motivation change at all?
Are you less or more motivatedseeing more money coming in?
(17:26):
Yeah, I feel like I do and yes.
So when we sold everything, actuallythe first time we left for Bali
in Thailand in 2017 and we cameback with tail between our legs.
We had a lot of failed ventures.
We tried it all from phone cases,canvases, t shirts, mugs, we tried
so many things and they just didn'twork out and we had to go back to
work but honestly, our jobs are onlygood enough to pay for our bills.
(17:49):
They're not good enoughto pay for the debt.
They were not good enough to payfor growth and for the future.
So we worked in the morningsfrom like 5am until 8am.
We worked on our business and thenwent to work and then at night again.
Now I have been so stressed about money.
My biggest fear for years and yearswas, I don't want to go broke.
Part of it is because I wentbroke and I don't want that again.
(18:10):
It's so uncomfortable.
So that just kept me drivingand driving but then again,
even this growth was not linear.
It was up and down.
Now my fear is not going brokeagain because I've been broke.
I've done it before.
I know what I can charge.
I can charge again.
I can find clients again.
So I feel like the more you dosomething, the more confidence you
have, you're going to do it again.
If everything failed for me tomorrow,let's say all of my clients left, all of
(18:34):
my team left, and it was just me, I'd belike, okay, I know exactly what to do.
It's going to be uncomfortable andannoying but I know what to do.
Now, as for the motivationto keep going, yes.
The motivation goes away a little bitwhen you're starting to have a little
bit more success when you are comfortableand I feel comfort zone is one of the
most dangerous freaking places you canbe in so what we started doing, we had
(18:54):
stores that worked really well whenwe had our like Million dollar story.
We were making good profitsbut we were spending money.
We're balling in Bali and instead ofthinking how can we grow even more?
We we're close coasting.
Now what we started doingis we have bigger goals.
We push ourselves to new limits.
We find projects for growth.
We're taking on bigger clients thatwe have to perform better and we're
(19:17):
just on a path for more and more.
So we keep stretching ourselvesto continue growing and
then I like to spend money.
My husband today was like, isthat another Sephora package?
And I'm like, yes, it is.
But then one of my friends called me rightbefore this podcast and she's like, I love
your Sephora pilot and I'm like, Sephora.
See, that's that's thesupport that I need in my life.
But what we do is, we thinkabout the goals and then we
(19:40):
keep working on those goals.
We want to have some sort of success.
Then I'm going to get out of debt.
We got out of debt.
What is the next thing?
Well, the next thing is we wantto travel but I want to travel and
afford to eat out and blah, blah.
So we keep pushing the goal higherand higher, Grant Cardone style and
you have to show up and perform.
I have a team, I have clients.
I can't just like screw off in Bali.
(20:01):
Even if I go to Bali, I have to work.
So it can be demotivating though.
I'm sorry.
I know long answers here but itcan be demotivating but also like
motivation comes and goes, right?
I think it's more important to figureout what you want and then work for that
cause if you don't figure out whatyou want, then other people are going
to tell you what you should want.
Other people are going to tellyou what you should deserve.
But if you keep pushing the goal and thetargets, then you create your narrative
(20:25):
and you're going to stay motivated.
Like, I like myself for us though.
So I'm going to keep workingso I can afford myself
and anything I can do to supportthat I'm going to continue
doing but those are your goals.
That's what you're hoping for and onething that you mentioned that really
drove home is about you willing toshow up and put in that work and
you've been broke before.
You've had failures butyou've been successful.
(20:45):
You can do it again.
You can absolutely repeat thatagain but the biggest thing is
that you're constantly pushingyourself to striving to be better
and that comfort level of wanting tochallenge ourselves and do something
more outside of our comfort zone.
That becomes easier once the comfort levelof staying the same just eats away at us.
We're like, Oh my goodness, I can'timagine doing something new versus
(21:08):
I can't imagine staying the sameand expecting the same results.
Exactly.
And there's exercises for this.
The first day of my one good job that Ihad in SAIL, I had a mentor and he told
me something that stuck with me and Ithink it'll stick with me for a long time.
He said, do something thatscares you every day and I was
doing cold calls at that time.
(21:29):
I was doing a hundred cold calls a day.
That was very scary to call peopleand I say comfort zone is one of the
most dangerous places you can be in.
I like to be comfortable in my sweatpants.
Don't get me wrong.
I like to be comfortable on the couch.
I like to watch Netflix.
But to me, there's no biggersatisfaction than building something,
conquering something and then justfeeling like, yeah, man, I did it.
Whether that's like a diet orworking out or money or a new
(21:52):
client or something like that.
If anyone's like looking to how do I getout of the comfort zone a little bit?
I mean, one thing you cando is build a podcast.
It is pretty freaking scaryto put yourself out there.
You don't know what guestsyou're going to have.
You don't know how they're going to react.
What they're going to do.
You don't know how they'regoing to promote your content.
Being a guest on a podcast canbe one making a phone call, like
a cold call doing cold plunges,like cold showers in the morning.
(22:15):
I'm so annoyed.
Like I have these 10 pounds of fat.
I'd really want to do that too.
And I was like, for the next few weeks,I'm going to do two workouts a day.
And it is insane because I'm exhausted.
Like this day too.
I'm doing cardio in the morning and I'mdoing weights at night and it was so
hard to do especially after yesterdaybecause when I just started yesterday
(22:36):
and today I showed up like I did itand now I did this hard thing in the
morning people don't like cardio okayI did this hard thing in the morning.
Nothing can faze me today, I wassweating in the other room on that
bike, I was sweating, I was drenched,I'm sore from yesterday, I have to show
up again tonight, but I'm ready forthe day, you do a cold shower after,
like nothing's gonna faze you, you'reprepared, so there's exercises you can
(22:59):
do to push yourself and then it setsup your day in such a much better way.
My opinion.
Absolutely.
Challenge ourselves doing somethingthat you really don't want to do just
to start the day or even taking ona work project that, okay, if I just
take care of the really hard onefirst, I can get that out of the way
and that sets us up for a better day.
We start making better decisionsto start influencing us to make
(23:22):
better decisions, better actions andthat's really important, especially
trying to look at that goal.
What do I need to achieve it?
And then no matter how much pain you'rein, how sore you are or how tired
you are, you're still showing up andyou're going to give a hundred percent.
Our business ownerssweating in their business.
Are they really pushing themselves?
Are they working out as hard or are theyjust kind of like casually walking around?
(23:44):
Maybe a brisk walk but whateverworks for them and their goals and
their business but it's importantto set your mindset, right.
Starting the day and challengingyourself, pushing yourself even further.
I think so too.
And again, have a goal in my opinion,having a goal so much for any sort
of success in any area of your life.
Absolutely.
Sandra, now where can peoplefind out more about you?
Get connected with you online?
(24:06):
Sure.
I am on LinkedIn a lot.
So Sandra Kokotowicz is my LinkedIn name.
I am redoing my website rightnow, snap advantage.com.
So it is kinda like in constructionbut snap advantage.com or
look up sandra Kokotovic onLinkedIn or Instagram or TikTok.
I'm on all social media channel.
Very nice.
And we'll have those links available downat the show notes and the description.
(24:28):
Sandra just a few minutes left,but we wanted to ask you, what are
you looking forward to in 2025?
Seems like you get some excitingirons in the fire right now,
maybe some more travel plans.
What are you looking forward to?
Definitely travel plans.
I have a lot of trips planned.
So I'm taking advantage of being in NorthAmerica right now and I definitely want to
come back to the States for a little bit.
I haven't visited the States in a while,so hopefully I can do some California,
(24:51):
Oregon and Washington little trip, maybeeven like Stop in Vegas on the way back.
I love Vegas.
Me too.
It's a great place.
It's magical.
Exactly.
Maybe some islands and then I'mgoing to go back to Europe for a
few months and then check out somewine and croissants and cheeses in
terms of work, I am super excitedto start launching some Good guides,
(25:14):
hopefully, ideally, a little course.
So I said that I cannot do onething and I cannot clone myself.
And unfortunately, we are limited withwhat we're doing within our business.
And not everybody isready to work with us.
Not everybody needs to work with us yet.
So my solution to that is if I canhelp a business in any way, whether
that is through a mini course or someguides, checklists, any sort of content
(25:36):
I can help with I'm planning to dothat in the later part of the year.
So yeah, stay tuned.
They're going to be on the website.
That is very exciting.
Always good to have content that justanswers a lot of those common questions,
nurtures them along in the journey andanything that helps you put your knowledge
out there that helps other people.
That is a win win for us in our business.
Sandra, we appreciate your time.
Thanks for coming on andsharing your journey with us.
(25:57):
Wish you all the best andcongratulations to you.
Thank you so much.
It's been a pleasure.
Thank you.
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