April 18, 2025 • 27 mins
Are you struggling to get your message across? Dr. Michael Gerharz reveals why even the best ideas can falter without the right words. Through engaging insights and practical advice, he empowers leaders to embrace their unique voices and enhance their communication skills. Discover how the PATH principles can help you communicate with purpose and clarity, making a genuine difference in your professional journey.
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https://brainworkframework.podbean.com/
Connect with Dr. Michael Gerharz:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelgerharz/
Company Website: https://michaelgerharz.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/drgerharz
Connect with Chris Troka:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-troka-3a093058/
Website: https://focused-biz.com/
Website: https://christroka.com/ #brainwork #framework #business #entrepreneurship #communications #strategies #path
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I found that nice little acronym,the path, which is both the literal
meaning of that's the path we're on.
That's the path that will lead us to makeit an impact but it's also a nice acronym,
which stands for plain and simple.
You're listening to Brainwork Framework,a business and marketing podcast
brought to you by focused- biz.
com.
Welcome back to another episode ofthe Art of Communication in Business.
(00:23):
Better words mean betterbusiness, increased influence
and richer relationships.
Our next guest helps leaders acrossthe globe find the right words
so they can make a bigger impact.
With us today is the founderof Dr. Gerhart's The Art of
Communicating, Dr. Michael Gerhart.
So great to have you on.
Thanks for joining us.
How are you today?
Hey, Chris, I'm great.
It's fun to be here.
Good to see you.
(00:43):
Absolutely.
Same here.
We always like to ask our guests.
Tell us about your journey.
What were you doing before?
And how did that kind of leadyou into what you're doing today?
That's a fun question because it alwaysgets people kind of a pause because given
that I'm a communication advisor todaythey kind of struggle when they hear
that originally I'm a computer scientist.
That's where my PhD is and so it'sin mobile communications and we're
(01:05):
actually not the kind of person you would
immediately associate withgreat communication, right?
But to be honest, that's exactlythe reason why I took that journey.
Because I was just purely frustratedwith all the great ideas that
I've been seen thrown into atrash bin due to that problem.
It's not singular to the field.
It's actually a universal problembut it's where I saw it firsthand.
(01:30):
I was around doing my PhD when the mobilephone revolution changed the world.
I've seen many great ideas.
Change the world, take on a life oftheir own but I've seen even more of
them being forgotten because no one caredfor finding the right words because they
believe that the ideas went on their own.
They use the boring PowerPoint templatesand even when talking to experts, like
(01:54):
at a conference where there's hundreds ofexperts in the room, I've seen it happen
that not a single one of those understooda word and actually, they didn't even
understand what they turned down whichmight have been a brilliant idea.
And the paper was brilliant butthey just didn't care to find the
words to make the audience care andthat's how I started on my journey.
(02:17):
I just didn't want that for my ideas.
I just started looking for betterways, started to writing a blog.
First customers reached out andthat's how I got on the journey to
helping people find those words.
Nice.
It's always interesting to hear aboutthese journeys because it seems like this
was a solution to a problem that you hadyourself with, which many entrepreneurs
start their journey that way.
They realize I need to fix thisproblem for myself and then other
(02:38):
people have this problem and then yourealize the impact that it could have.
Communication is huge.
My background is in marketing thatgoes big into behavior, psychology,
communication, visual communication aswell but communication is foundation
to getting things done when we sendan email, when we make a phone call,
text message, give a presentation.
What's missing with ourcommunication pieces?
(03:00):
Is there anything that we can do tohelp strengthen that practice a bit
more so we can be more effective?
Yeah, obviously we could talk for weeksabout that topic without at least me
getting bored but if you'd force meto boil it down to one of the most
important things, it's to step off thehero's pedestal to stop trying to impress
(03:23):
people and start resonating with whatmatters to them to just being helpful
to their needs and not communicate likein a way of turning the spotlight on
yourself, bragging about how great thatidea is but while just trying to find
the clearest possible way and the mosthelpful way possible and by doing that
(03:43):
make people seen and heard and recognize.
That's different thanthe usual communication.
Their ears will open up anddoors will open up for you.
Absolutely.
And for me in marketing, a lot of thetimes when we would look at any campaign,
work with a business, we kind of askthem, we have to talk about three topics,
their audience, their offer, theirmessaging, what is it that they do?
(04:03):
The product, offer, solution, benefits.
But who is this for?
Because oftentimes we need to considerwho our audience is in order to craft
our message cause it's not as importantto get our feelings off of our chest
as it is that the receiver actuallyhears and understands that message.
What do you think about consideringthe audience and what influence they
might have on our communication style?
(04:26):
Is there anything that we shouldconsider when thinking about what
communication style we shouldtry on a particular audience?
Yeah.
First of all, the audience is thewhole point of the presentation right?
We're not doing it for ourselves.
We know everything already, right?
The point is not to justtransmit it and throw a bunch
of information and data at them.
I mean, that that's the usual waythat presentations are done, right?
(04:48):
Well, here's everything I have to say.
I'm just throwing it at you.
And when I'm done, you'regoing to be convinced, which
obviously people usually aren't.
Right.
Because, well, usually they tuneout at some point because it's just
overwhelming, confusing, and boring.
And so there are got, there'sgot to be a better way.
And that, that way starts bylistening to the audience before
(05:10):
you speak, while you speak.
And after you speak, you ask questionsabout what's, what's the point of that.
Meeting.
So why are we gathering here?
What do you hope to get out of that?
And then you might do yourresearch and well, look at.
So what kind of audience is that?
What's what's the current trend inthat industry or something like that?
(05:30):
During the audience, you pay attentionto how they how their body language is
the kind of questions that they ask.
And then after the presentation, youcontinue the conversation and all
three of those things are things that.
Well, close to no one actually doesproperly in most presentation situations
(05:50):
or communication situations in general.
Absolutely.
And when you're speaking about theaudience about making the message
resonate, I've heard from others istrying to use the industry lingo.
Maybe for us marketers, we use terms likeSEO and PPC, whereas the audience may not
understand what that means vice versa whenwe're trying to communicate to an industry
that we don't have a lot of experience.
(06:11):
There's gonna be phrases and termsthat they use that will kind of be
like a trigger word for their ears toperk up and finally notice or listen.
So this can be from any industry.
How do you try to craft craftmessages before going into anything?
Do you use this before meetings?
Are you trying to kind of gathersome information and craft your
message a little bit different?
(06:32):
Or is this more about usinglike a templated framework for
communication across the board.
Well, template is a huge word andI'm not a big fan of templates
in the traditional sense.
Here's how you structure your talk.
Just fill in the blanks and thenyou're going to be rich overnight.
Right?
That's usually that gets you to goodresults but usually not to the great and
(06:55):
unforgettable results which hopefullylisteners to this podcast aim for.
So if you want to do that, it'sthe individualized the personal
communication that pays attention tothe moment where you're present in the
moment and can react to what happens
but of course you're totally right thatYou're not going to change people's
minds with your words, you're going tohave to find their words, your truth,
(07:20):
your words, their truth, their words.
You're going to have a hard timechanging their truth using your words.
So just starts by having conversations notonly in the moment when you greet them,
you have a small talk with them, you tryto kind of pick up the nuances that they
use the references that they make and thenyou can use that in the moment but you
(07:41):
can do a lot of that research beforehand.
You can have conversations.
To prepare the meeting, hop on socialmedia and look at some of the posts they
do to figure out, so how do they speakabout those things actually what's on
their mind currently, what bothers themat the moment, what's happening in the
industry, what's happening in the worldthat has an impact on the industry.
(08:01):
And then weave that in and of courseyou can use AI to ask for those things.
Be careful to double check those thingsbecause while it can lead you far straight
but at least it gives you a hint thatit's way better than just heading in
there using your prepared deck that somemarketing department prepared for you.
(08:22):
That's the same for every singlecustomer that has no personal connection.
Absolutely.
It is definitely a struggle.
One thing I love that you mentioned wasit's not just about the act of speaking,
communicating but the other half isgoing to be the listening, the body
language, understanding what they want.
Like you said, it's their words.
So how can we use thatand bring it together?
(08:42):
I really love that aspect.
And you mentioned using some AI tools.
It seems like in the past 3 years, it'sfound its way into every potential piece
of software or hardware that we have.
It's somehow powered with AI.
Now AI is now redraftingor rereading our emails.
I see a lot of jokes on the internetthat someone receives an email,
they'll send it to chat GPT andsay, can you summarize this for me?
(09:04):
And then write a response.
They'll send the response back overand then they're both literally
just both using chat GPT torespond and reply to each other.
So there are moments where this couldhelp us improve our communication
practices but also it becomes thiscrutch that we lean on and then we no
longer actively use those skills tolearn now we're just relying on tools.
(09:28):
How do you see these communication tools,AI being integrated into what we're doing?
Is it good?
Is it bad?
What should we be considering?
To be totally honest, that so differentthan like 20 years, even 60 years ago,
only that at that time a very few peoplehad access to their personal assistance.
(09:52):
Like people back then, leaders,CEOs back then didn't write
all their mails and letters.
They had secretaries who transcribedwhat they said literally and sent
the letter over and then they hadassistants on the other side reading
those letters, summarizing that to theCEO and Perhaps even delegated devising
the answer to that system, right?
(10:13):
So it's not really different.
The only thing that's changedis that's been democratized.
Everyone's got access to that now.
And to me, that feels like a good thingbecause in many cases, that makes the
communication more concise, clearerin its intent and in its articulation.
We get rid of the grammar errors.
So it's just easier, nicer.
(10:34):
And in many ways, in manysituations, actually more kind than
the language that's being used.
So that's a good thing.
The downside is that, it feels likeit's going to be averaged, like
everyone sounds the same andin a way that's what happens.
Then again, you could look atthat a little differently with
a little more nuance becausewhat it actually means is that.
(10:56):
The bar's been raised.
So average just got way better.
Average is now what used to begreat a couple of years ago.
If you want to stand out in thataverage world, you're going to
raise the game for yourself.
You'll have to find ways toarticulate to yourself that stand
(11:16):
out from that average crowd.
And I would suppose largelymeans getting more personal.
In the way that you communicate,finding your unique voice, what's your
personal take and how can you bringthe personal experience that you have
the courage to find and use that uniquevoice into you, into your communication
(11:40):
that's hard to replicate for AI.
Absolutely.
But I love the perspectivethat you brought to the table.
It's kind of like just any other tool.
25 years ago, we had Clippy jumpinginto our word document saying, it looks
like you're trying to make a resume.
Would you like some help?
Then we had Grammarly andthen we had other tools.
Now they're just becoming consolidated.
I guess the same couldbe said for calculators.
(12:02):
It's like, maybe we're not having ourminds compute these calculations anymore.
We're letting a system do it but lookat how much brain power that takes
from us and how much it frees upfor us to be able to do a lot more.
Just consider theadvancements that we've made.
It's just been incredible but I wantto dive more into the books because
now you have a newer book coming out,the art of communicating, you have
(12:25):
a thousand posts on this topic butyou have some previous books as well.
Do you mind taking me throughyour authoring journey and what
it was like bringing those booksand idea to the marketplace?
Well as I mentioned in the beginningof our conversation, the way
that I started my journey intocommunications was by starting a blog.
So I've been writing my whole life thatactually started back in school where
(12:46):
I had a brilliant physics teacher whoencouraged us to write about the topics
that we spoke about in the lessons.
And he would just meticulouslyproofread that for us, which was just
a phenomenal offer helped me reallyrefine and level up my skills there.
But that's how I got started andthat's how I try to make of the world.
If I noticed something like there hasbeen that glitch in that meeting or
(13:09):
something that I find really fascinating.
How that speaker grab theattention of the audience.
I tried to capture that in the momentbut then I tried to make sense by writing
about it and over the years many thoughtsassembled into a huge block today.
And that's a valuable tool for meand I hope for the readers as well.
But one of the problems with that is it'salways these tiny snippets of thoughts.
(13:32):
And that's something that booksare just great at overcoming.
Where you can take many of thosetiny thoughts and assemble them
into a larger cohesive thought.
And I've done that twice in the past.
The first book which was in Englishtitle will be the Aha Effect where I try
(13:53):
to find the angle where we don't have
libraries full of books about yet, becauselet's face it, the world doesn't need
another communications books becausethere are just libraries with that.
But surprisingly, most of those bookshave a very similar approach which
I will call the wow effect, right?
(14:15):
How to wow your audience, howto put a put on a big show so
that they can cheer for you.
But I always thought that, waita second, what use is it if your
audience comes after your talkcomes up to you to congratulate you.
What a great show it's been.
What do you actually want them to say?
So what a great idea it is.
Right?
And that's the aha effect.
(14:36):
So I tend to think that youshouldn't stop at the wow effect.
You should take them all the way.
Down to profound aha moment whereyou've made them see something so
profoundly that they cannot unsee itanymore and that's what you actually
want to achieve and that's what I tendto think way more ambitious than what
most books on communication aim for.
(14:58):
And then I took that further and applythat to very specific problems, strategy,
communication, one of the problems thatevery single business out there faces
mostly every year when they go on theseannual strategy retreats and come home,
pop, totally pumped, enthusiastic about.
The new strategy and this time wereally nailed this and we're super
proud of it only to discover likethree weeks in that nothing's changed.
(15:22):
And three months ineverything's forgotten.
We're back to normal.
And we start the process over next year.
I thought that's so much wasted energy,so much wasted brilliance and that
which often have nothing to do withthe strategy wouldn't be brilliant.
That's not true because manyof these efforts are solid.
They are based on solid research.
The books about how to craft agreat strategy have been written.
(15:45):
There are tons of great books onthat but then the brilliance of that
strategy gets lost in translation.
The team just doesn't understand itbecause it's the boardroom language and
even if you make them kind of dig throughthose thousands of PowerPoint slides
they don't really embrace it and don'tknow what that actually means for the
(16:06):
everyday choices they have to make, theactions that they have to take, right?
And well, that's a communicationproblem and that's got to do a lot
with the a ha effect on that strategy.
So I found that nice little acronym, thePATH, which is both the literal meaning
of, so that's the path we're on, that'sthe path that will lead us to making
(16:26):
an impact but it's also a nice acronymwhich stands for plain and simple.
Can you find words thateveryone can understand?
Actionable.
Can you translate it into the actionsthat we actually need to take?
Transformative.
Do we encourage to make the boldleaps not just the tiny baby
steps and age art heartfelt?
Is it something that we truly believe in?
(16:48):
It does it align the personalgoals with the business's goals
so that we wholeheartedly standbehind and give it our all.
That is really well saidand I love that framework.
Another piece I felt like reallyresonated with the audience is this
strategic retreat that they go on.
They come back allenergized really amped up.
They try to communicate this aha momentand idea to the team but they have
(17:10):
trouble articulating that and trying tomake sense for them because The message
they received was delivered to them.
Now they need to recraft thatand try to translate that to
their workers, their audience.
That's a challenge.
But I think a lot of people out thereare hearing that and they're like,
wow, that was me two months ago orI'm going next week and hopefully
we'll have similar experiencesbut that's kind of how things go.
(17:33):
Yeah, it's a true problem.
Absolutely.
Now you've been inbusiness for 16 plus years.
You help people craftbetter communications.
Are you working with individuals?
Are you working with thecompanies themselves?
What is the process likewith working with a client?
Do they usually say, I need just generalcommunication skills or do they come
with a campaign or a product thatthey're launching and they're like, we
(17:55):
really need help communicating this.
What is your work involved in?
Tell me what it's like workingwith clients and how you help them.
Well, these are actually thetwo ways that people come to me.
First is that you've gotthat big thing coming up.
It might be a product launch thatyou've stepped up and made a step in
your career and have your first speech.
It might be that you've beeninvited to that keynote which
(18:18):
you're not really sure about.
So how to nail that and what the exactstory is that you want to tell there.
And then we work on that andthat's a remarkably quick process.
It blows my mind.
It blows my audiences, my clientsminds every time that we're done
in half a day just working on that.
It doesn't work always but all it takeshalf a day on that story so that you've
(18:42):
got the clarity that you've alwaysfelt inside but had trouble finding
the words to articulate it and that'sthe magic and that's why it works.
It's not like that I'mputting words into your mouth.
It's more like I'm pulling it out of you.
Like it's always been inside of you.
You've been passionate about thisthing sometimes for years and
(19:02):
you feel that clarity inside.
We just somehow need to pull it up and theother way that people tend to work with
me is that, they recognize that they'redoing great work but the communication
and the way that they communicate is.
It feels like they're standingon the break and they need to
release that break and hopefullyeven push the gas pedal down.
(19:25):
So they really want to get theircommunication to the same level that
their dedication and passion towardsthe work that they do is already
at and that's when we'll work for
together for an extended amount oftime, like meeting weekly or biweekly,
whatever fits into your schedule andconsistently try to make sense of what
(19:46):
happened in that meeting, what happenedin that keynote, how to prepare for the
upcoming presentation in a better way andreally lead the lead your teams and your
customers in a way that they can lightthe path for their teams and customers.
Absolutely.
Isn't it incredible whenwe're working with a lot of
these clients and businesses.
(20:06):
How we find that there's so manygreat ideas or products or business
people out there but there's thatjust one little piece that is
missing that we help them out.
We work with them for maybe half daylike you said and they're just impressed.
How do we get all this done?
Why do I feel so clear?
Like, I have direction.
I have purpose now andit's like, thank you.
Finally.
I think that's just the power ofwhen people hire experts to come in.
(20:29):
You can spin your wheels trying tothink, how do I communicate this,
maybe you're practicing but at theend of the day, you need someone with
that higher level knowledge, thatexpertise, that experience to come in
and just provide you some direction.
And I love the service that you provideto other other people in businesses.
Exactly.
And it's holding them back.
And you can have the bestproduct in the world.
It can be a genius idea but ifpeople don't get it, it's basically
(20:54):
worthless as if it doesn't exist.
And the thing is that people don'thave the time to figure it out for you.
You've got to figure it out for themand you've got to find the clarity
so that they can immediately attachto that product and your idea.
Absolutely.
It's huge to try to get ateam buy in into an idea.
Oftentimes it's like the leadersare disconnected from the rest
(21:16):
of the staff and it feels likethey want to push through ideas.
And it's up to that team to helpto try to bring that idea to life
but it's a struggle and a challengethat I think people try to work
with motivating and getting buyins from the team for their idea.
Trying to get them toexecute and vice versa.
I think a lot of team members want toget the CEO buy into maybe some ideas.
Maybe they have something they wantto bring to the table and I think
(21:39):
better communication, listening,speaking abilities would help solve
a lot of problems in this world,especially in business, that's huge.
Absolutely.
It used to work right backa couple of decades ago.
We had that command and controlstyle of communication and leadership
where you were basically stuckwith that huge business in your
neighborhood and that was the onlyplace you could actually get work.
(22:02):
And you were basically stuck withthe authority of that company
but that time is long gone.
And today we're seeing mostly thatleader leaders lead the way model where
well leaders supposed to communicatewith clarity and have the answers but I
think my impression is that we're eventransitioning here to another level which
(22:24):
I like to call the lighting the path way.
It's not so much about having all theanswers but tapping into the brilliance of
the whole team, trusting them to know theanswer but that means that communication
is now your most important tool becauseif you cannot clearly articulate where
you're headed, why you were headed thereand why it's going to be us and find
(22:46):
the trust in the team, then you're goingto have a hard time and increasingly
employees have a choice to just head overto that other business with that leader
who's better at articulating those things.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting to see thatshift from the last 50 to 80
years or so where the employer hadmore of that power and dominance.
(23:08):
The employee didn't have a lotof say or control over that.
It seems that there has been a shiftat least since COVID, the work from
home, maybe some more opportunitiesmeant more people are interested
in job hopping in order to increasetheir salary because unfortunately the
cost of living raises that they getunfortunately put them actually behind.
But I think it's just this shift.
I think people realize they havemore knowledge and power and that
(23:31):
they contribute a lot more to theprofiting and capitalism as well.
But that shift is flipping again.
They're laying off a lot of people.
People are scared that AI is coming fortheir jobs now but it's just something to
be mindful of as the shift happens betweenthe business and employee and how do we
find that balance and make sure peoplefeel fulfilled and can earn a living
(23:53):
versus you want them to get the buy in.
If your team feels like they'rejust working for you to get your
third Porsche or your seventh yacht,that's not very motivating for them.
Is it?
Yeah.
Exactly.
You got to find wordsthat make sense for them.
Again, your truth, your words.
If you think you deservethat luxury, well, it's okay.
And you might actually deserve it butas you said, people increasingly have a
(24:16):
choice to work for those who give themmeaning and who you care to provide
them with purpose not only the livesbut the work that they do, because
that's how most people spend most oftheir lives actually helping other
people do their and run their business.
And the more motivating that is, the moreinspirational that is for the team, the
(24:38):
more effort and actually hard that theywill put into the work that they do.
Yes, absolutely.
And I think at the end of the day,that's what we're hoping for is to have
a highly motivated team who wants to getresults and take action with a leadership
team who gets it, understands theirfeelings and just the company mission
as a whole, try to find that balance.
(24:59):
So that way the leaders arehappy, the employees are happy
and everybody can be happy.
The consumers can be happy.
What a perfect world of capitalism wecould be in if that's only how we did it.
If people just cared forfinding those words that give
people that meaning, right?
Exactly.
That's right.
Absolutely.
Dr. Michael Gerhards, where can peoplefind and connect with you online?
(25:19):
I'd encourage to visit mywebsite, michaelgerhards.
com G E R H A R Z oneword michaelgerhards.
com where you can Connect with me, booka session even a free sample session if
you think that you would like to level up.
If you just like to check out mywork append slash downloads to
the URL and you'll get a bunch ofdownloads that help you figure out
(25:41):
your communication or of course you'llfind pointers to the blog where as
you mentioned, there are more thanthousand thoughts on how to communicate
properly and find better words.
And feel free to connectwith me on LinkedIn.
I'd love to follow your journey.
Excellent.
And we'll have the links available downin the show notes and the description
so everyone can get connectedwith Dr. Michael Gerhartz here.
(26:03):
What is on the docket and plan for 2025?
Do you have anything new you're excitedabout, got some things cooking or
you're working up or are you justtrying to continue and do the same great
work that you've been doing already?
Well, both.
I'm going to travel the path that I'velaid out in the past like decades almost
(26:23):
already but it's never like that thepath will be the same as last year.
It's always evolving.
One thing that I've just started is.
It's like a free monthly sessionwhere leaders who want to communicate
with more clarity and impact justgather together to exchange ideas.
It's called the leaderslight the path session.
You'll find more info on my LinkedIn page.
(26:44):
If you want to join those, it's a veryrelaxed format where it's not about me.
Giving you a presentationbut having conversations.
People have called it like momentsof reflection where they get to get
a chance to really reflect deeplyon the way that they communicate.
And yeah, I would love to see you there.
That'd be excellent.
I would love it.
I'm going to check out those linksand make sure I get get added
(27:05):
to that event cause I love theself reflection and communicating
and speaking with other people.
We can learn a lot from other people andif I can provide any value to anyone else
I'm just paying it forward at that point.
I would love to be a part of it.
Absolutely.
That'd be wonderful.
Thank you so much for comingon and sharing your journey,
your tips and tricks with us.
The art of communicatingso very important.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We appreciate it.
Congratulations and looking forwardto your future success as well.
(27:29):
Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
Absolutely.
Same here.
I found that nice little acronym,the path, which is both the literal
meaning of that's the path we're on.
That's the path that will lead us to makeit an impact but it's also a nice acronym,
which stands for plain and simple.
You're listening to Brainwork Framework,a business and marketing podcast
brought to you by focused- biz.
com.
Welcome back to another episode ofthe Art of Communication in Business.
(00:23):
Better words mean betterbusiness, increased influence
and richer relationships.
Our next guest helps leaders acrossthe globe find the right words
so they can make a bigger impact.
With us today is the founderof Dr. Gerhart's The Art of
Communicating, Dr. Michael Gerhart.
So great to have you on.
Thanks for joining us.
How are you today?
Hey, Chris, I'm great.
It's fun to be here.
Good to see you.
(00:43):
Absolutely.
Same here.
We always like to ask our guests.
Tell us about your journey.
What were you doing before?
And how did that kind of leadyou into what you're doing today?
That's a fun question because it alwaysgets people kind of a pause because given
that I'm a communication advisor todaythey kind of struggle when they hear
that originally I'm a computer scientist.
That's where my PhD is and so it'sin mobile communications and we're
(01:05):
actually not the kind of person you would
immediately associate withgreat communication, right?
But to be honest, that's exactlythe reason why I took that journey.
Because I was just purely frustratedwith all the great ideas that
I've been seen thrown into atrash bin due to that problem.
It's not singular to the field.
It's actually a universal problembut it's where I saw it firsthand.
(01:30):
I was around doing my PhD when the mobilephone revolution changed the world.
I've seen many great ideas.
Change the world, take on a life oftheir own but I've seen even more of
them being forgotten because no one caredfor finding the right words because they
believe that the ideas went on their own.
They use the boring PowerPoint templatesand even when talking to experts, like
(01:54):
at a conference where there's hundreds ofexperts in the room, I've seen it happen
that not a single one of those understooda word and actually, they didn't even
understand what they turned down whichmight have been a brilliant idea.
And the paper was brilliant butthey just didn't care to find the
words to make the audience care andthat's how I started on my journey.
(02:17):
I just didn't want that for my ideas.
I just started looking for betterways, started to writing a blog.
First customers reached out andthat's how I got on the journey to
helping people find those words.
Nice.
It's always interesting to hear aboutthese journeys because it seems like this
was a solution to a problem that you hadyourself with, which many entrepreneurs
start their journey that way.
They realize I need to fix thisproblem for myself and then other
(02:38):
people have this problem and then yourealize the impact that it could have.
Communication is huge.
My background is in marketing thatgoes big into behavior, psychology,
communication, visual communication aswell but communication is foundation
to getting things done when we sendan email, when we make a phone call,
text message, give a presentation.
What's missing with ourcommunication pieces?
(03:00):
Is there anything that we can do tohelp strengthen that practice a bit
more so we can be more effective?
Yeah, obviously we could talk for weeksabout that topic without at least me
getting bored but if you'd force meto boil it down to one of the most
important things, it's to step off thehero's pedestal to stop trying to impress
(03:23):
people and start resonating with whatmatters to them to just being helpful
to their needs and not communicate likein a way of turning the spotlight on
yourself, bragging about how great thatidea is but while just trying to find
the clearest possible way and the mosthelpful way possible and by doing that
(03:43):
make people seen and heard and recognize.
That's different thanthe usual communication.
Their ears will open up anddoors will open up for you.
Absolutely.
And for me in marketing, a lot of thetimes when we would look at any campaign,
work with a business, we kind of askthem, we have to talk about three topics,
their audience, their offer, theirmessaging, what is it that they do?
(04:03):
The product, offer, solution, benefits.
But who is this for?
Because oftentimes we need to considerwho our audience is in order to craft
our message cause it's not as importantto get our feelings off of our chest
as it is that the receiver actuallyhears and understands that message.
What do you think about consideringthe audience and what influence they
might have on our communication style?
(04:26):
Is there anything that we shouldconsider when thinking about what
communication style we shouldtry on a particular audience?
Yeah.
First of all, the audience is thewhole point of the presentation right?
We're not doing it for ourselves.
We know everything already, right?
The point is not to justtransmit it and throw a bunch
of information and data at them.
I mean, that that's the usual waythat presentations are done, right?
(04:48):
Well, here's everything I have to say.
I'm just throwing it at you.
And when I'm done, you'regoing to be convinced, which
obviously people usually aren't.
Right.
Because, well, usually they tuneout at some point because it's just
overwhelming, confusing, and boring.
And so there are got, there'sgot to be a better way.
And that, that way starts bylistening to the audience before
(05:10):
you speak, while you speak.
And after you speak, you ask questionsabout what's, what's the point of that.
Meeting.
So why are we gathering here?
What do you hope to get out of that?
And then you might do yourresearch and well, look at.
So what kind of audience is that?
What's what's the current trend inthat industry or something like that?
(05:30):
During the audience, you pay attentionto how they how their body language is
the kind of questions that they ask.
And then after the presentation, youcontinue the conversation and all
three of those things are things that.
Well, close to no one actually doesproperly in most presentation situations
(05:50):
or communication situations in general.
Absolutely.
And when you're speaking about theaudience about making the message
resonate, I've heard from others istrying to use the industry lingo.
Maybe for us marketers, we use terms likeSEO and PPC, whereas the audience may not
understand what that means vice versa whenwe're trying to communicate to an industry
that we don't have a lot of experience.
(06:11):
There's gonna be phrases and termsthat they use that will kind of be
like a trigger word for their ears toperk up and finally notice or listen.
So this can be from any industry.
How do you try to craft craftmessages before going into anything?
Do you use this before meetings?
Are you trying to kind of gathersome information and craft your
message a little bit different?
(06:32):
Or is this more about usinglike a templated framework for
communication across the board.
Well, template is a huge word andI'm not a big fan of templates
in the traditional sense.
Here's how you structure your talk.
Just fill in the blanks and thenyou're going to be rich overnight.
Right?
That's usually that gets you to goodresults but usually not to the great and
(06:55):
unforgettable results which hopefullylisteners to this podcast aim for.
So if you want to do that, it'sthe individualized the personal
communication that pays attention tothe moment where you're present in the
moment and can react to what happens
but of course you're totally right thatYou're not going to change people's
minds with your words, you're going tohave to find their words, your truth,
(07:20):
your words, their truth, their words.
You're going to have a hard timechanging their truth using your words.
So just starts by having conversations notonly in the moment when you greet them,
you have a small talk with them, you tryto kind of pick up the nuances that they
use the references that they make and thenyou can use that in the moment but you
(07:41):
can do a lot of that research beforehand.
You can have conversations.
To prepare the meeting, hop on socialmedia and look at some of the posts they
do to figure out, so how do they speakabout those things actually what's on
their mind currently, what bothers themat the moment, what's happening in the
industry, what's happening in the worldthat has an impact on the industry.
(08:01):
And then weave that in and of courseyou can use AI to ask for those things.
Be careful to double check those thingsbecause while it can lead you far straight
but at least it gives you a hint thatit's way better than just heading in
there using your prepared deck that somemarketing department prepared for you.
(08:22):
That's the same for every singlecustomer that has no personal connection.
Absolutely.
It is definitely a struggle.
One thing I love that you mentioned wasit's not just about the act of speaking,
communicating but the other half isgoing to be the listening, the body
language, understanding what they want.
Like you said, it's their words.
So how can we use thatand bring it together?
(08:42):
I really love that aspect.
And you mentioned using some AI tools.
It seems like in the past 3 years, it'sfound its way into every potential piece
of software or hardware that we have.
It's somehow powered with AI.
Now AI is now redraftingor rereading our emails.
I see a lot of jokes on the internetthat someone receives an email,
they'll send it to chat GPT andsay, can you summarize this for me?
(09:04):
And then write a response.
They'll send the response back overand then they're both literally
just both using chat GPT torespond and reply to each other.
So there are moments where this couldhelp us improve our communication
practices but also it becomes thiscrutch that we lean on and then we no
longer actively use those skills tolearn now we're just relying on tools.
(09:28):
How do you see these communication tools,AI being integrated into what we're doing?
Is it good?
Is it bad?
What should we be considering?
To be totally honest, that so differentthan like 20 years, even 60 years ago,
only that at that time a very few peoplehad access to their personal assistance.
(09:52):
Like people back then, leaders,CEOs back then didn't write
all their mails and letters.
They had secretaries who transcribedwhat they said literally and sent
the letter over and then they hadassistants on the other side reading
those letters, summarizing that to theCEO and Perhaps even delegated devising
the answer to that system, right?
(10:13):
So it's not really different.
The only thing that's changedis that's been democratized.
Everyone's got access to that now.
And to me, that feels like a good thingbecause in many cases, that makes the
communication more concise, clearerin its intent and in its articulation.
We get rid of the grammar errors.
So it's just easier, nicer.
(10:34):
And in many ways, in manysituations, actually more kind than
the language that's being used.
So that's a good thing.
The downside is that, it feels likeit's going to be averaged, like
everyone sounds the same andin a way that's what happens.
Then again, you could look atthat a little differently with
a little more nuance becausewhat it actually means is that.
(10:56):
The bar's been raised.
So average just got way better.
Average is now what used to begreat a couple of years ago.
If you want to stand out in thataverage world, you're going to
raise the game for yourself.
You'll have to find ways toarticulate to yourself that stand
(11:16):
out from that average crowd.
And I would suppose largelymeans getting more personal.
In the way that you communicate,finding your unique voice, what's your
personal take and how can you bringthe personal experience that you have
the courage to find and use that uniquevoice into you, into your communication
(11:40):
that's hard to replicate for AI.
Absolutely.
But I love the perspectivethat you brought to the table.
It's kind of like just any other tool.
25 years ago, we had Clippy jumpinginto our word document saying, it looks
like you're trying to make a resume.
Would you like some help?
Then we had Grammarly andthen we had other tools.
Now they're just becoming consolidated.
I guess the same couldbe said for calculators.
(12:02):
It's like, maybe we're not having ourminds compute these calculations anymore.
We're letting a system do it but lookat how much brain power that takes
from us and how much it frees upfor us to be able to do a lot more.
Just consider theadvancements that we've made.
It's just been incredible but I wantto dive more into the books because
now you have a newer book coming out,the art of communicating, you have
(12:25):
a thousand posts on this topic butyou have some previous books as well.
Do you mind taking me throughyour authoring journey and what
it was like bringing those booksand idea to the marketplace?
Well as I mentioned in the beginningof our conversation, the way
that I started my journey intocommunications was by starting a blog.
So I've been writing my whole life thatactually started back in school where
(12:46):
I had a brilliant physics teacher whoencouraged us to write about the topics
that we spoke about in the lessons.
And he would just meticulouslyproofread that for us, which was just
a phenomenal offer helped me reallyrefine and level up my skills there.
But that's how I got started andthat's how I try to make of the world.
If I noticed something like there hasbeen that glitch in that meeting or
(13:09):
something that I find really fascinating.
How that speaker grab theattention of the audience.
I tried to capture that in the momentbut then I tried to make sense by writing
about it and over the years many thoughtsassembled into a huge block today.
And that's a valuable tool for meand I hope for the readers as well.
But one of the problems with that is it'salways these tiny snippets of thoughts.
(13:32):
And that's something that booksare just great at overcoming.
Where you can take many of thosetiny thoughts and assemble them
into a larger cohesive thought.
And I've done that twice in the past.
The first book which was in Englishtitle will be the Aha Effect where I try
(13:53):
to find the angle where we don't have
libraries full of books about yet, becauselet's face it, the world doesn't need
another communications books becausethere are just libraries with that.
But surprisingly, most of those bookshave a very similar approach which
I will call the wow effect, right?
(14:15):
How to wow your audience, howto put a put on a big show so
that they can cheer for you.
But I always thought that, waita second, what use is it if your
audience comes after your talkcomes up to you to congratulate you.
What a great show it's been.
What do you actually want them to say?
So what a great idea it is.
Right?
And that's the aha effect.
(14:36):
So I tend to think that youshouldn't stop at the wow effect.
You should take them all the way.
Down to profound aha moment whereyou've made them see something so
profoundly that they cannot unsee itanymore and that's what you actually
want to achieve and that's what I tendto think way more ambitious than what
most books on communication aim for.
(14:58):
And then I took that further and applythat to very specific problems, strategy,
communication, one of the problems thatevery single business out there faces
mostly every year when they go on theseannual strategy retreats and come home,
pop, totally pumped, enthusiastic about.
The new strategy and this time wereally nailed this and we're super
proud of it only to discover likethree weeks in that nothing's changed.
(15:22):
And three months ineverything's forgotten.
We're back to normal.
And we start the process over next year.
I thought that's so much wasted energy,so much wasted brilliance and that
which often have nothing to do withthe strategy wouldn't be brilliant.
That's not true because manyof these efforts are solid.
They are based on solid research.
The books about how to craft agreat strategy have been written.
(15:45):
There are tons of great books onthat but then the brilliance of that
strategy gets lost in translation.
The team just doesn't understand itbecause it's the boardroom language and
even if you make them kind of dig throughthose thousands of PowerPoint slides
they don't really embrace it and don'tknow what that actually means for the
(16:06):
everyday choices they have to make, theactions that they have to take, right?
And well, that's a communicationproblem and that's got to do a lot
with the a ha effect on that strategy.
So I found that nice little acronym, thePATH, which is both the literal meaning
of, so that's the path we're on, that'sthe path that will lead us to making
(16:26):
an impact but it's also a nice acronymwhich stands for plain and simple.
Can you find words thateveryone can understand?
Actionable.
Can you translate it into the actionsthat we actually need to take?
Transformative.
Do we encourage to make the boldleaps not just the tiny baby
steps and age art heartfelt?
Is it something that we truly believe in?
(16:48):
It does it align the personalgoals with the business's goals
so that we wholeheartedly standbehind and give it our all.
That is really well saidand I love that framework.
Another piece I felt like reallyresonated with the audience is this
strategic retreat that they go on.
They come back allenergized really amped up.
They try to communicate this aha momentand idea to the team but they have
(17:10):
trouble articulating that and trying tomake sense for them because The message
they received was delivered to them.
Now they need to recraft thatand try to translate that to
their workers, their audience.
That's a challenge.
But I think a lot of people out thereare hearing that and they're like,
wow, that was me two months ago orI'm going next week and hopefully
we'll have similar experiencesbut that's kind of how things go.
(17:33):
Yeah, it's a true problem.
Absolutely.
Now you've been inbusiness for 16 plus years.
You help people craftbetter communications.
Are you working with individuals?
Are you working with thecompanies themselves?
What is the process likewith working with a client?
Do they usually say, I need just generalcommunication skills or do they come
with a campaign or a product thatthey're launching and they're like, we
(17:55):
really need help communicating this.
What is your work involved in?
Tell me what it's like workingwith clients and how you help them.
Well, these are actually thetwo ways that people come to me.
First is that you've gotthat big thing coming up.
It might be a product launch thatyou've stepped up and made a step in
your career and have your first speech.
It might be that you've beeninvited to that keynote which
(18:18):
you're not really sure about.
So how to nail that and what the exactstory is that you want to tell there.
And then we work on that andthat's a remarkably quick process.
It blows my mind.
It blows my audiences, my clientsminds every time that we're done
in half a day just working on that.
It doesn't work always but all it takeshalf a day on that story so that you've
(18:42):
got the clarity that you've alwaysfelt inside but had trouble finding
the words to articulate it and that'sthe magic and that's why it works.
It's not like that I'mputting words into your mouth.
It's more like I'm pulling it out of you.
Like it's always been inside of you.
You've been passionate about thisthing sometimes for years and
(19:02):
you feel that clarity inside.
We just somehow need to pull it up and theother way that people tend to work with
me is that, they recognize that they'redoing great work but the communication
and the way that they communicate is.
It feels like they're standingon the break and they need to
release that break and hopefullyeven push the gas pedal down.
(19:25):
So they really want to get theircommunication to the same level that
their dedication and passion towardsthe work that they do is already
at and that's when we'll work for
together for an extended amount oftime, like meeting weekly or biweekly,
whatever fits into your schedule andconsistently try to make sense of what
(19:46):
happened in that meeting, what happenedin that keynote, how to prepare for the
upcoming presentation in a better way andreally lead the lead your teams and your
customers in a way that they can lightthe path for their teams and customers.
Absolutely.
Isn't it incredible whenwe're working with a lot of
these clients and businesses.
(20:06):
How we find that there's so manygreat ideas or products or business
people out there but there's thatjust one little piece that is
missing that we help them out.
We work with them for maybe half daylike you said and they're just impressed.
How do we get all this done?
Why do I feel so clear?
Like, I have direction.
I have purpose now andit's like, thank you.
Finally.
I think that's just the power ofwhen people hire experts to come in.
(20:29):
You can spin your wheels trying tothink, how do I communicate this,
maybe you're practicing but at theend of the day, you need someone with
that higher level knowledge, thatexpertise, that experience to come in
and just provide you some direction.
And I love the service that you provideto other other people in businesses.
Exactly.
And it's holding them back.
And you can have the bestproduct in the world.
It can be a genius idea but ifpeople don't get it, it's basically
(20:54):
worthless as if it doesn't exist.
And the thing is that people don'thave the time to figure it out for you.
You've got to figure it out for themand you've got to find the clarity
so that they can immediately attachto that product and your idea.
Absolutely.
It's huge to try to get ateam buy in into an idea.
Oftentimes it's like the leadersare disconnected from the rest
(21:16):
of the staff and it feels likethey want to push through ideas.
And it's up to that team to helpto try to bring that idea to life
but it's a struggle and a challengethat I think people try to work
with motivating and getting buyins from the team for their idea.
Trying to get them toexecute and vice versa.
I think a lot of team members want toget the CEO buy into maybe some ideas.
Maybe they have something they wantto bring to the table and I think
(21:39):
better communication, listening,speaking abilities would help solve
a lot of problems in this world,especially in business, that's huge.
Absolutely.
It used to work right backa couple of decades ago.
We had that command and controlstyle of communication and leadership
where you were basically stuckwith that huge business in your
neighborhood and that was the onlyplace you could actually get work.
(22:02):
And you were basically stuck withthe authority of that company
but that time is long gone.
And today we're seeing mostly thatleader leaders lead the way model where
well leaders supposed to communicatewith clarity and have the answers but I
think my impression is that we're eventransitioning here to another level which
(22:24):
I like to call the lighting the path way.
It's not so much about having all theanswers but tapping into the brilliance of
the whole team, trusting them to know theanswer but that means that communication
is now your most important tool becauseif you cannot clearly articulate where
you're headed, why you were headed thereand why it's going to be us and find
(22:46):
the trust in the team, then you're goingto have a hard time and increasingly
employees have a choice to just head overto that other business with that leader
who's better at articulating those things.
Absolutely.
And it's interesting to see thatshift from the last 50 to 80
years or so where the employer hadmore of that power and dominance.
(23:08):
The employee didn't have a lotof say or control over that.
It seems that there has been a shiftat least since COVID, the work from
home, maybe some more opportunitiesmeant more people are interested
in job hopping in order to increasetheir salary because unfortunately the
cost of living raises that they getunfortunately put them actually behind.
But I think it's just this shift.
I think people realize they havemore knowledge and power and that
(23:31):
they contribute a lot more to theprofiting and capitalism as well.
But that shift is flipping again.
They're laying off a lot of people.
People are scared that AI is coming fortheir jobs now but it's just something to
be mindful of as the shift happens betweenthe business and employee and how do we
find that balance and make sure peoplefeel fulfilled and can earn a living
(23:53):
versus you want them to get the buy in.
If your team feels like they'rejust working for you to get your
third Porsche or your seventh yacht,that's not very motivating for them.
Is it?
Yeah.
Exactly.
You got to find wordsthat make sense for them.
Again, your truth, your words.
If you think you deservethat luxury, well, it's okay.
And you might actually deserve it butas you said, people increasingly have a
(24:16):
choice to work for those who give themmeaning and who you care to provide
them with purpose not only the livesbut the work that they do, because
that's how most people spend most oftheir lives actually helping other
people do their and run their business.
And the more motivating that is, the moreinspirational that is for the team, the
(24:38):
more effort and actually hard that theywill put into the work that they do.
Yes, absolutely.
And I think at the end of the day,that's what we're hoping for is to have
a highly motivated team who wants to getresults and take action with a leadership
team who gets it, understands theirfeelings and just the company mission
as a whole, try to find that balance.
(24:59):
So that way the leaders arehappy, the employees are happy
and everybody can be happy.
The consumers can be happy.
What a perfect world of capitalism wecould be in if that's only how we did it.
If people just cared forfinding those words that give
people that meaning, right?
Exactly.
That's right.
Absolutely.
Dr. Michael Gerhards, where can peoplefind and connect with you online?
(25:19):
I'd encourage to visit mywebsite, michaelgerhards.
com G E R H A R Z oneword michaelgerhards.
com where you can Connect with me, booka session even a free sample session if
you think that you would like to level up.
If you just like to check out mywork append slash downloads to
the URL and you'll get a bunch ofdownloads that help you figure out
(25:41):
your communication or of course you'llfind pointers to the blog where as
you mentioned, there are more thanthousand thoughts on how to communicate
properly and find better words.
And feel free to connectwith me on LinkedIn.
I'd love to follow your journey.
Excellent.
And we'll have the links available downin the show notes and the description
so everyone can get connectedwith Dr. Michael Gerhartz here.
(26:03):
What is on the docket and plan for 2025?
Do you have anything new you're excitedabout, got some things cooking or
you're working up or are you justtrying to continue and do the same great
work that you've been doing already?
Well, both.
I'm going to travel the path that I'velaid out in the past like decades almost
(26:23):
already but it's never like that thepath will be the same as last year.
It's always evolving.
One thing that I've just started is.
It's like a free monthly sessionwhere leaders who want to communicate
with more clarity and impact justgather together to exchange ideas.
It's called the leaderslight the path session.
You'll find more info on my LinkedIn page.
(26:44):
If you want to join those, it's a veryrelaxed format where it's not about me.
Giving you a presentationbut having conversations.
People have called it like momentsof reflection where they get to get
a chance to really reflect deeplyon the way that they communicate.
And yeah, I would love to see you there.
That'd be excellent.
I would love it.
I'm going to check out those linksand make sure I get get added
(27:05):
to that event cause I love theself reflection and communicating
and speaking with other people.
We can learn a lot from other people andif I can provide any value to anyone else
I'm just paying it forward at that point.
I would love to be a part of it.
Absolutely.
That'd be wonderful.
Thank you so much for comingon and sharing your journey,
your tips and tricks with us.
The art of communicatingso very important.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We appreciate it.
Congratulations and looking forwardto your future success as well.
(27:29):
Thanks for having me.
It's been a pleasure.
Absolutely.
Same here.
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