In this insightful episode of Cobb & Company, Dr. Randall Morgan, President and CEO of the W. Montague Cobb Institute, hosts an engaging discussion on the transformative power of mentorship in the medical field. Recorded live at the 2024 NMA Convention and Scientific Assembly in New York, Dr. Morgan is joined by Dr. Lynne Holden and Dr. Dexter Frederick, two distinguished leaders who share their personal journeys and the critical role of mentoring in fostering diversity in healthcare.
Dr. Holden, a Professor of Emergency Medicine and Senior Associate Dean of Diversity and Inclusion at Albert Einstein College of Medicine, reflects on her 40-year mentorship with Dr. Muriel Petioni and the impact of her nonprofit organization, Mentoring in Medicine. Dr. Frederick, Associate Dean of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Loma Linda University Health School of Medicine, discusses the origins and success of the Brain Expansion Scholastic Training (BEST) program.
The episode delves into the challenges of securing funding, the importance of community-based organizations, and strategies for replicating successful mentorship programs across the nation. Tune in to learn how these leaders are navigating the evolving landscape of healthcare education and working to ensure a diverse and equitable future for the medical profession.
Dr. Lynne Holden is Professor of Emergency Medicine at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, NY and a practicing Emergency Department Physician Attending at Montefiore Health System on the Moses Campus. Dr. Holden is Senior Associate Dean of Diversity and Inclusion at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine.
She earned her B.S. in Zoology from Howard University, graduated from Temple University School of Medicine, and completed her residency in Emergency Medicine at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine, the start of a long association. She is a member of Delta Sigma Theta, Inc. and WellMet, a female giving circle that supports social justice organizations.
Dr. Holden is also the co-founder and President Emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine, a national nonprofit organization dedicated to inspiring and equipping students to become health care professionals through academic enrichment, leadership development, civic engagement, and mentoring. Through conferences, hip-hop plays, school-based, and virtual programs, Mentoring in Medicine has reached nearly 85,000 students from elementary school through to medical school. While nearly 1,200 program participants have pursued a variety of biomedical careers, 572 have become doctors. Dr. Holden is a member of the Board of Directors at the W. Montague Cobb Institute.
Dr. Dexter Frederick was appointed Associate Dean of Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion at Loma Linda University Health's School of Medicine in California. He is also an Associate Professor of Pediatrics and Medicine at the university.
Dr. Frederick is a board-certified physician in both internal medicine and pediatrics, and is a Fellow of the American College of Physicians and a diplomat of the American Board of Pediatrics. He also has a certificate in Diversity and Inclusion from Cornell University's School of International and Labor Relations.
Dr. Frederick is the Founder and CEO of the Brain Expansions Scholastic Training (BEST) Organization; a community-based initiative whose mission is to identify, inspire, and educate underrepresented youth interested in pursuing health careers. Over the past two decades, the BEST Organization has developed medical pathway programs that provide mentorship, guidance, and support for students of color. Dr. Frederick is also a board member at the Montague Cobb Institute.
Excerpts
“I did not have any physicians in my family, and it was my aunt who introduced me to Dr. Muriel Petioni, and Dr. Petioni was my mentor for over 40 years. Just to be able to see the way that she advocated
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
I did not have any physicians in my family, and it was my aunt who introduced me to Dr.
Muriel Petioni, and Dr. Petioni was my mentor for over 40 years.
Just to be able to see the way that she advocated for her patients and for the
community was so important.
(00:22):
The BEST, which stands for Brain Expansion Scholastic Training,
is really my journey personally.
It started out with the opportunities I got as a teenager with my mom opening
some doors for me to allow me to be in the hospital.
It's a journey through college where I had to overcome some challenges and setbacks.
(00:43):
It's a journey during my gap year, I kind of rebounded and had that confidence come back again.
It's a journey through med school where I had to kind of shift as all medical
students have had to do, shift how you learn and study.
We have to get creative and smart about how to continue these programs,
(01:09):
remembering what the climate is like now and what it may be in the future.
For us to continue to work, we've got to have private philanthropy funding and
also corporate funding that does not really get mixed with governmental political discussions.
(01:32):
For example, the National Science Foundation, National Institutes of Health,
for every grant that's submitted,
they really want to have a dissemination plan and also know how they want you
to have a plan for how you're going to reach underrepresented minority students.
Institutions, medical schools, for example, are really starting to lean into
(01:55):
community-based organizations to help them to fulfill those requirements.
And I think that it's important for us to take what we discussed today and to
put it in a form that can be shared with the membership of the National Medical
(02:16):
Association so that people can and understand what they can do in their own communities.
Music.
Welcome to another episode of Cobb & Company, the podcast of the W.
(02:38):
Montague Cobb Institute.
We are recording live and in person in New York at the NMA Convention and Scientific Assembly.
I am Dr. Randall Morgan. I'm president and CEO of the Cobb Institute.
Over the coming months, we are welcoming numerous thought leaders in the areas
of health equity and increasing diversity in the healthcare workforce.
(03:02):
Both of my guests today are leading important initiatives that are proactively
moving the needle for workforce diversity.
Welcome, Dr. Lynn Holden. Thank you. And welcome, Dr. Dexter Frederick.
Thank you. And I must say that these distinguished leaders and physicians are
also members of the board of directors of the W.
(03:26):
Montague Cobb Health Institute and have been the co-chairs for our upcoming
symposium, which will occur later this afternoon, about the best-in-class of mentoring programs.
So stay tuned. Dr. Lynn Holden is professor of emergency medicine at Albert
Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx,
(03:47):
New York, and a practicing emergency department physician attending at Montefiore
Health Systems on the Moses campus.
Dr. Holden is senior associate dean of diversity and inclusion at the Albert
Einstein College of Medicine, and this is a very recent appointment.
(04:07):
She earned her Bachelor of Science in Zoology from Howard University,
graduated from Temple University School of Medicine, and completed her residency
in emergency medicine at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
the start of a long association.
She is a member of Delta Sigma Theta Incorporated and well-met,
(04:29):
a female giving circle that supports social justice organizations.
Dr. Holden is also the co-founder and president emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine,
a national nonprofit organization dedicated to inspiring and equipping students
to become healthcare professionals through academic enrichment,
(04:52):
leadership development,
civic engagement, and mentoring.
Through conferences, hip-hop plays, school-based, and virtual programs,
mentoring in medicine has reached nearly 85,000 students from elementary school
through to medical school,
while nearly 1,200 program participants have pursued a variety of biomedical careers.
(05:18):
572 have become doctors. Dr.
Dexter Frederick was appointed Associate Dean of Diversity, Equity,
and Inclusion at Loma Linda University Health School of Medicine in California.
This is also a very recent appointment. He is also an Associate Professor of
(05:40):
Pediatrics and Medicine at the university. Dr.
Frederick is a board-certified physician in both internal medicine and pediatrics
and is a fellow of the American College of Physicians and a diplomat of the
American Board of Pediatrics.
He also has a certificate in diversity and inclusion from Cornell University's
(06:00):
School of International and Labor Relations. Dr.
Frederick is the founder and CEO of the Brain Expansion Scholastic Training, or BEST, organization,
a community-based initiative whose mission it is to identify,
inspire, and educate underrepresented youth interested in pursuing health careers.
(06:26):
Over the past two decades, the guidance and support for students of color has been significant.
So thank you again for both taking your time to be a part of this important
discussion, but more importantly to lending your careers and your expertise
to the programs of the Cobb Institute.
(06:48):
We feel it's very important to have those who are knowledgeable about the programs
that we are involved in in the Cobb Institute to be a part of the leadership.
And our board for 20 years has always been a part of the leadership.
So we again, thank you very much.
So let's get our discussion off today.
(07:09):
And I will ask both of you, mentoring is key to successful completion of each
stage of a medical or scientific career.
Can you each share with us one personal example, either as a mentor or a mentee,
which illustrates how transformative these relationships can be?
Dr. Holden? Well, first of all, Dr. Morgan, I want to thank you for your leadership
(07:34):
of the Cobb Institute and for the privilege of serving on the board of directors.
So I think you also need to be applauded. Thank you so much.
Thank you. This is an interesting question.
I'm going to talk actually from the point of view of a as a mentee myself.
I did not have any physicians in my family. And it was my aunt who introduced
(07:57):
me to Dr. Muriel Petioni.
And Dr. Petioni was my mentor for over 40 years. She was the first person when,
at the age of 13, took me under her wing and allowed me to shadow her in her office in Harlem.
Dr. Pettioni was known as the mother of medicine in Harlem.
And so I really did not know what really the exposure over the course of years
(08:24):
would mean, but it is obvious that she rubbed off on me, quite frankly.
So not only was it just the ability to see her in action with her patients,
with the community, and to be able to develop strategies myself to emulate that,
but it was also her connections, her networking.
We would go to different events and she would ask me to accompany her and I
(08:48):
would meet people that I only read about or heard about, but that she was close to.
And so mentoring is not only that relationship that you build with one person
or people to help you in various aspects of your career, but it also can lead to sponsorship.
And Dr. Petty only was certainly a sponsor, mentor and a sponsor for me over
(09:12):
the course of the 40 years.
Well, thank you very much. I've heard a lot about Dr. Pettiglione.
I'm not sure that I met her. I probably did early in my career in NMA,
but certainly she's had a number of things named for her,
the Council of Concerns of Women, and I think you're very privileged to have
(09:35):
had that close-up relationship with her.
What's an example of one of the community activities that you became knowledgeable
about just by being with her?
Well, for example, Dr. Petioni was really the definition of the feet on the street.
(09:55):
Even though she had a practice, she was very involved not only in day-to-day
operations of her business, but also with the community and also advocacy.
And one event that I went to that really sticks out in my head is at the Adam Clayton Powell Center.
It's in Harlem on 125th Street. And she was the keynote speaker,
(10:19):
but also Charlie Rangel was there at the time. David Dinkins was there.
So the powerhouses really of in New York City and the country really at that time. And so it was Dr.
Pettioni who invited me to come to that event.
And I was able to see her in action like I had never seen her before.
And it was just such, it was an amazing experience.
(10:42):
And I was, you know, just taking mental notes, physical notes,
and really just to be able to see the way that she advocated for her patients
and for the community was so important.
One other observation, and then we're certainly going to have a chance to speak
with Dr. Frederick about this same topic.
In those days when you had a practice and you had autonomy about your practice and of your practice,
(11:08):
you were able to make lots of decisions about what happened just because you
felt it was the right thing to do, including having shadowing and having mentees
and mixing them in with your patients. You didn't have to worry about HIPAA.
There was just a lot of things that could be done.
Do you think that we need to have maybe a reset or...
(11:32):
Some better ways of incorporating shadowing in our mentoring experience for
young people now based upon the rules that we have?
What can we do to give people the same experience that you had?
Absolutely. It is a different time. It's a different time than it was 25 plus years ago.
(11:53):
But I will say that there are ways to work within the system.
For example, I have a shadowing program, volunteer and shadowing program in
the emergency department at Montefiore.
This summer, for example, we had about 100 students who participated in that program.
They participate in the program, but they have to go through a clearance process.
(12:13):
So this process includes almost a physical exam.
You have to make sure your shots are intact, your blood tests, drug screening, etc.
So there's so many hoops that the students have to go through in order to get
to the emergency department to have that experience.
But certainly those who have the social and emotional fortitude are the ones that make it through.
(12:37):
And it's sort of a test of, you know, how professional are they also?
But there are ways to really to work within the system to still achieve our goals.
Well, that's good to know because we've all had that same experience,
I think. We could all name several physicians in our community that were impactful,
(12:57):
and we have to make sure that that continues.
So, Dr. Frederick, tell us about your early experiences as a mentee or as a mentor. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Dr. Morgan. And again, like Dr.
Holden, thank you for the privilege to be on the board and to,
(13:19):
you know, stretch me in spaces that can allow me to be a mentor to others and
also be mentored by many in this circle.
I'll take it from the point of a mentee, you know, back in Tampa,
Florida, and one of our students started very eager to become a medical student
(13:40):
one day and aspired to be in medicine since she was a toddler.
And she, going through her courses, got through the first year,
and in the second year, she met some really tough times.
Coming from a single-family home, had some tough courses, and also unfortunately
her brother committed suicide.
(14:02):
And at that time she all of a sudden decided that medicine was not for her.
You know, she just couldn't focus, couldn't concentrate, and.
We connected through the pre-med office, and someone heard that you need to talk with Dr.
Frederick and his team and kind of get back on track.
(14:23):
And we got to talk and got to find out that she was going through experiences
of food desert, just really in a really low moment.
We continued to work with her, continued to wrap around her and allow her to
know that we just want to make sure you're okay while trying to support her dreams.
She got through, graduated from University of South Florida,
(14:47):
but then we told her, you know, maybe you need to just pause,
maybe do a master's, and which she did.
Came for around the MCAT, and we just said, this is your time to shine. Just focus on this.
Make a long story short, you know, she did well on the MCAT,
got 10 offers, full scholarships to 10 medical schools around the country and
(15:10):
decided to go to UCLA on a full scholarship.
I bring her up because this is someone, all she needed was someone to believe in her.
And when we talk about mentorship, it's just about trying to hold a hand and
trying to reinstate that confidence that she had as a bushy-eyed,
(15:30):
excited first-year college student.
And we took her on a journey. She's been on a journey, and I think as we mentor,
and I personally get mentored by others, it's my journey as I go through,
and I think that it's great to see her grow and to flourish now looking back.
(15:51):
Where is she now? What's her level now?
So she is taking a research year after her third year from UCLA doing Vanderbilt, doing dermatology.
Wonderful, wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah. And was UCLA...
A good choice for her? Yes, yes. She got into Stanford. She got into Hopkins.
(16:14):
She got, you know, a number of great schools. And I think one of the reasons
she chose was because of the curriculum,
the flexibility in the curriculum, and also the fact that she had some family
there, which would have given her some support, which was reasonable.
Because that's sort of that higher-level mentoring as well, that young people
(16:37):
need to be able to sort through the opportunities that they have and match them
up with their own personality or their own personal experiences.
Correct. Because top 10 schools may not be top 10 for everybody.
Absolutely. And the relationships that you have, that you both have,
able to kind of make those recommendations at a critical time, I think. Yes, yes. Yeah.
(17:03):
And, you know, to your point, she trusted me, and my wife was part of it,
too, where we sometimes nurture students.
She trusted us enough to keep us in touch and say, OK, I'm down to four schools.
What do you think? This is what the decision I made, and this is why.
And I think that relationship with mentees, we've got to develop that trust,
develop the fact that we're thinking, you know, what's best for you.
(17:27):
Well, she was very fortunate.
So, Dr. Holden, you are now President Emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine.
I don't understand how you're emeritus at your age, but at any rate,
back in the day, you were hands-on and getting the whole program off the ground.
(17:47):
What do you remember most about the challenges of getting started with mentoring
in medicine? Well, thank you for your kind words.
When I became the Senior Associate Dean for Diversity and Inclusion at Einstein
about two years ago, I then became President Emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine,
but still have my hand in it, of course.
And as you mentioned, there were challenges in getting it off the ground.
(18:10):
Just as Dr. Frederick mentioned that his wife helps him, my husband also helps me.
Actually, my husband was the brainchild behind Mentoring in Medicine, Andrew Morrison.
And so he always believed in the power of mentoring and mentoring in medicine
and the impact that it could have on students who were interested in health and science fields.
(18:33):
I did not. And I think that was probably, honestly, one of the biggest challenges
in starting mentoring in medicine.
I remember that we had a event called Dinner with Doctors and Other Healthcare
Professionals in Harlem.
Put out the event and we had maybe 50 people register.
(18:53):
But knowing our culture, we had 400 show up.
And not only 400 showed up, but the New York Times was there.
And that was our first event ever.
And so, you know, that was sort of proof that mentoring in medicine needs to be.
And that really helped sort of convince me. That was the evidence I needed,
(19:15):
I guess, to really go full force.
And I can say that another, and I'm sure Dr.
Frederick will comment on this, but finding funding to support the activities that were needed.
I spent almost 13 years on different admissions committees.
And so I know what the admissions committees are looking for.
(19:35):
And finding funding to be able to prepare our students for that and for those
skills that they They need such as critical thinking, intellectual curiosity,
reading comprehension. It's tough.
And so I've learned, even though I'm trained as an emergency medicine physician,
I've really had to become a self-taught, I wouldn't say relationship builder,
(19:57):
but yeah, relationship builder and grant writer.
And so I learned early on that you really have to diversify the funding sources
in order to sustain the programs.
And you always have to think steps ahead once you do get a grant,
especially if it's a one-year funding cycle, in order to be able to have the
(20:18):
continuity of programs and to continue to build your brand.
So I think those are the two biggest. And the other, I would say,
building a team, a team that you can trust, you know, has really that I could
trust, who has my same work ethic, has also been sort of tough.
But we've made it through, and, you know, we're still here since 2006.
(20:40):
Oh, absolutely. And, of course, there are great parallels to the Cobb Institute,
which has been here since 2004.
And as all nonprofits, it has its challenges in terms of funding and support
and understand that we have to be more—.
(21:03):
More agile sometime in making that happen.
So I know both of your programs have constantly required that,
and you've had interest from the philanthropic side of the community as well
as institutions that have supported it.
What do you think was the turning point for mentoring in Madison?
(21:25):
What got those 400 people there?
As I look back, I think it was people, you know, networking,
knowing the right people and the right people knowing what we're doing.
And the fact that our heart and soul was poured into this mission of helping
to expand the competitiveness of students who are applying to medical school.
And, you know, as always, it can be a phone call.
(21:46):
It could be someone who knows someone. We just don't know the circles that people
travel in. So that's why it's so important.
Relationship building, networking, press, getting press, press writing,
peer-reviewed articles.
So all of that is so important to continue to get that exposure.
And Dr. Frederick, as I came to South Florida almost 20 years ago,
(22:09):
I heard of the BEST program and close by in Tampa,
and I saw all of the things that you did personally and the amount of time that
you spent in making sure that this was a successful program.
Can you give us a little history of how the BEST program started and when you
(22:33):
felt like you were really beginning to gather momentum?
So, you know, the BEST, which stands for Brain Expansion Scholastic Training,
is really my journey personally.
It started out with the opportunities I got as a teenager with my mom opening
some doors for me to allow me to be in the hospital.
It's a journey through college where I had to overcome some challenges and setbacks.
(22:58):
It's a journey where during my gap year, I kind of rebounded and had the confidence come back again.
It's a journey through med school where I had to kind of shift as all medical
students have had to do, shift how you learn and study.
And then also, So I was also a National Health Service Corps scholar.
(23:18):
So that allowed me to go back into the inner city, into working with patients that looked like me,
working with teenagers that were interested in becoming medical professionals
and had no one in their family who were in medicine.
And that's kind of the birth of it. So here you have the coming together of
(23:40):
my experience, the coming together of a need, working in Tampa,
Florida when I got there in 2002.
And students asking, you know, what can I do to become a nurse, a doctor?
And, you know, many of them had coaches of how to become a great basketball
player, volleyball player, but no one. And so I decided that I wanted to be
an agent of change, and we started an organization in 2004.
(24:04):
So about 20 years, same time COOP got started. And so, you know,
we have this vision that, you know, if someone, any student from any background
who is interested in becoming a physician, we should give them everything that they need to do so.
And that's kind of what we've done over the years. And one of the unique things, and I think Dr.
Holden brought it in, is programs, we have to kind of, you know,
(24:29):
lean into the new generation, you know, Gen Zs in terms of how they think, how they approach life.
And one of the unique things is that we've got to make it tangible.
We've got to have them see it. We've got to have them be in that space.
So when Dr. Holden talks about them being in the emergency room, that is so key.
(24:51):
And that's one of the staple things
about our program, that our students actually going to the hospitals.
So the turning point was from 2004 to 2012, a lot of it was in the community.
We would take the students to fire stations, to dental clinics, you know.
But in 2012, we changed it to a hospital-based program, which really made the
(25:14):
reality of them being a doctor one day very tangible, very real.
And from that point, the community and hospitals and academic institutions around
us really corralled around us, funded us, and especially Moffitt Cancer Center
to support what we're doing.
And over the years, you know, we've impacted more than 5,000 students and a
(25:37):
number of students have gone on to become physicians, nurses.
And occupational therapists.
Some patients, one of the unique things is that even though we want them to
become physicians, there are some students that they have a proclivity and they
are pulled toward maybe becoming a physical therapist or a physician assistant.
(25:57):
But we just want them to be their best selves and have the opportunity to make
decisions to kind of control their direction.
So it's been a great run for 20 years, a great impact.
Well, it's just amazing to me that each of you had a vision,
a vision that was based upon your own personal experiences, and you were able
(26:19):
to transfer that vision into practice.
Outward experiences that affect the community and the difference between New
York, the Bronx, Tampa, Florida.
And then you also went to Loma Linda for medical school, didn't you?
(26:40):
Correct. Right. So I went to Loma Linda after I finished my undergrad in arrester therapy.
I did that pre-med. Then I went out to Loma Linda there for four years and did
some international national mission trips also while there, and did med peds,
did chief residency in pediatrics.
And being part of National Health Service Corps, you then had to leave and serve.
(27:04):
And so I decided that I'd come back east on the other side and was there for
20 years and recently relocated back to Loma Linda.
So how are we going to replicate these programs nationally, Find the next generation.
You mentioned the ability to communicate with younger generation.
(27:26):
I think we certainly need that. The National Medical Association needs that.
The Cobb Institute needs it. Almost all organizations.
But as far as the mentoring programs are concerned...
Is there any thought of trying to replicate them?
(27:47):
Lynn, I think you've had some involvement, haven't you, in other places besides New York?
Yes. So our headquarters is in the Bronx, but we've done work really across
the country as far as Alaska, Bozeman, Montana, Tampa, Florida,
actually, Orlando, big urban epicenters.
And I think your question is very important.
(28:07):
And there is a way to replicate. Of course, the traditional way where you have
chapters, we have examples of that with Dale's organization,
Black Men in White Coats.
Also, we have other ways to replicate.
Virtual learning now since COVID has become, quote unquote, acceptable.
(28:29):
But with Mentoring in Medicine, since 2009, we've been doing a summer science
camp, a virtual summer science camp, where we have had students,
international students, as far as Brazil and Africa, tuning in in the wee hours
of the morning to the content that we were providing.
And I wrote a paper about the impact of virtual learning and how that can be
(28:53):
used as a vehicle in urban epicenters to tell students about the opportunities
in health. But besides that, partnerships.
So partnerships with medical schools, partnerships with medical societies like
the National Medical Association, where the students may get their core content online,
(29:13):
but their experiential learning could be through partnerships throughout the country.
So there are definitely ways, you know, to replicate the work that Dr.
Fredericks and I are doing.
And I think it really takes, you know, strong staff to be able to do that. And as Dr.
Fredericks said, you know, it's a bit of a challenge, but it happens in time.
(29:36):
There are certain principles, I think, and certain assets that any organization
would have to have if you want to replicate.
So we did another replication of another program in another county for the first
time this last past summer.
And I must say that, you know, Dr. Holden and myself, we've been doing this a while.
(30:01):
If you want a program, in our minds, we can envision it.
And tell you what to do and put some things in place because we've done it for so long.
And I think we take for granted the fact that there are individuals,
there are hospitals, there are community centers, there are academic health
care institutions that would want to know how we come up with these ideas or what they can do.
(30:26):
And I was amazed that we gave them the template. We worked with another hospital in Ocala, Florida.
That's probably about 100 miles.
East of Tampa, Florida, but we gave them the template and they took it and ran with it.
Of course, we provided the curriculum, but in terms of the organization,
(30:47):
in terms of the big framework, and I think hospitals are looking for something
like what we can provide.
And we are here to share. We are here to kind of guide them on what to do because
many times you have to do it right from the experience we have garnered.
Because what can happen is that if you don't do it right and a student accidentally
(31:10):
or something is done wrong or the professional approach to training in a hospital is not done right,
your reputation is affected.
So I think that the key thing here is doing it in a way that is very professional,
that creates excellence, that creates results,
(31:33):
and I think after 20 years that we've been in doing this,
I think we have a few, we can say a few words in terms of how to do it right.
What would be the categories of support that would be most interested in supporting replication?
(31:53):
Are you finding support and interest in private philanthropy?
Corporate support, governmental support, or in some cases, hospitals,
hospital systems, to support the types of mentoring that you have been able to establish?
(32:15):
Well, I'll speak to the fact that all of the above have been,
have really helped to support the work that is being done with mentoring in medicine.
And, you know, the times are changing, As we mentioned before,
with being more strict as far as shadowing, but also with diversity,
equity and inclusion programs across the country.
(32:36):
And so there are some states, Texas, Ohio, even parts of Florida,
where such programs are being eliminated.
So it is a struggle to really to maintain the level of mentorship and involvement
that has been helping students in the past.
So we have to get creative and smart about how to continue these programs,
(33:02):
remembering what the climate is like now and what it may be in the future.
So to answer your question, I think leaning into philanthropic support is going
to be very important moving forward.
Yeah, I echo what Lynn said.
And I think you're a community-based organization, correct?
(33:26):
We are. Community-based nonprofit. And I think that's what makes us unique in
the longevity of our programs.
Could you imagine if our programs, at least in Florida, was connected to a university?
Our program would probably be gone by now. So I think with that being community-based,
it's even more so for us to continue to work, we've got to have private philanthropy
(33:51):
funding and also corporate funding that does not really get mixed with governmental
political discussions.
So that is definitely something I think in terms of innovation and making the
work continue, I think community-based organizations of this work need to continue.
I mean, when you look at when HCOP, the funding for HCOP was cut,
(34:15):
that decreased the strength of the work.
And we hope that will come back at some point in time to expand that work because
that was very effective, you know, back in the day.
So I think that private philanthropy is important so that we can do the work
without being tied, getting our hands tied and being creative and being innovative
(34:37):
and thinking outside the box.
Yes, I think that's really important also, because the program that we originally
envisioned may have to be morphed into another program in order to really be
funded at the level that it needs to be.
So always thinking, really always being more flexible about the support that we get.
(35:00):
And we can't forget in-kind support. There's so much that can come from someone
allowing you to use their space or someone saying, OK, I'm going to support
an administrative assistant for you for 10 hours a week.
So, again, that comes back to circles back to relationships and really being
able to to really appreciate the power of all types of support and making both
(35:24):
of our organizations not only survive, but thrive.
So I think that really that discussion leads us to today and the symposium,
which we will have in a few hours,
here at the National Medical Association that's focused upon best-in-class mentoring
programs and how they will fare in the new environment in the United States
(35:51):
post the Supreme Court decision of 2023.
Dr. Frederick, would you want to begin a discussion of this important topic
and also maybe share why you felt it was important for us to do this type of symposium at this time?
(36:12):
Great question. So as you know, last year, the SCOTUS decision,
and the reason why at this point in time, at such a time as this,
if I may use that phrase, is because if we are going to really mitigate health disparities,
if we're really serious about our patients surviving,
(36:37):
and especially those from marginalized backgrounds,
we've got to prime the pump.
And what has worked in the path in terms of admitting students who are.
Are part of a population, part of a community that looks like that community.
Well, individuals, admissions departments, now medical schools, their hands are tied.
(37:00):
And they're finding creative ways to get around that. However,
as they try to be creative, you have departments that are being closed,
so there's no funding to do what you would want to do to be creative.
So it behooves community-based organizations. It behooves hospitals.
I mean, I think hospitals have to understand and,
(37:23):
you know, there are boxes they need to check for Jayco and for Medicare where
they have to show they're taking care of the least among them.
And if you don't have individuals or physicians or healthcare professionals
that, you know, reflect that community.
(37:43):
Then it, you know, you're not going to do the best job in saving lives and creating
that sense of community at your hospital.
So, I say that to say that, you know, we have to, the support that medical schools used to give,
that support needs to come from hospitals where they need to invest in,
(38:06):
you know, paying for medical students to go to medical school so that they can
bring those students back to work at their hospitals.
So corporations understanding that, healthcare companies to understand that
if you have a community of lives, as we call them, that in order to serve that community,
you need to provide physicians that reflect that community.
(38:28):
And it's important to reinvest that time, individual, that money into the lives
of those students. So, because at this point in time, we have to think outside the box.
And I think that today we will hear a few from the AAMC and also from Dr.
Bright about some ways, things we can do. But creativity, innovation, we have to flow with it.
(38:53):
Yes, I agree with everything you have said, Dr. Frederick.
I think the other interesting piece is that even though the SCOTUS decision
has affected medical school admissions,
there are some who are broadening that SCOTUS decision to college and pathway
and pathway programs and others that I don't think the intent was there originally yet. Right.
(39:18):
For example, the National Science Foundation, National Institutes of Health,
for every grant that's submitted, they really want to have a dissemination plan
and also know how they want you to have a plan for how you're going to reach
underrepresented minority students.
And so institutions, medical schools, for example, are really starting to lean
(39:40):
into community-based organizations to help them to fulfill those requirements.
And so I think that it's important that the work that Dr.
Frederick, myself, and others like Bonnie Mason and Dimension that we're doing
as community-based organizations is strengthened.
And wherever the wave is going, that we are able to maintain the work that we're
(40:05):
doing and to not only maintain it, but sustain it and grow it.
Because we may be those who are able to kind of carry this mission forward until
we stabilize the situation.
Well, innovation is the most important word here, and flexibility. ability.
(40:27):
And I think that it's important for us to take what we discussed today and to
put it in a form that can be shared with the membership of the National Medical
Association so that people can understand what they can do in their own communities,
particularly as you're stating that a lot of this is going to be community-based.
(40:48):
The final impact downstream is going to be community-based.
And so, that involves everybody.
So, hopefully, we will be able to share through our reflections,
through the follow-up, through the podcast, through whatever means we have of
communication to build the army within the National Medical Association.
(41:15):
Of support for the next generation.
Absolutely. And most of us realize that we didn't get here by ourselves.
Right. And so it is our kind of unspoken pact duty to pay it forward.
And so I think that with the right infrastructure, that the members of NMA will
(41:37):
be motivated, energized, really, given the climate, to carry these programs
and this mission forward.
You know, one of the things, if I could add, is that, you know,
the AAMC is very committed to diversity in medicine.
And I think institutions, whether you're a dean of admissions,
(41:57):
whether or not you're diversity, equity, inclusion, whatever you are in administration,
there is a business case to be made for your medical school staying open.
And that business case is accreditation.
And part of what the WEMC is saying is that we need you to diversify.
(42:17):
We need you to think of creating cultural and developing culturally competent
physicians for the new pluralism that's going to be happening in the next couple
of years in terms of patients.
So I think with that commitment, we can be empowered to go back to our institutions
and say that we need to stay accredited and we need to create pathways that
(42:41):
shows our support for creating the next generation of physicians that are from
all demographic agents.
Dr. Holden, any last reflections? Well, I just wanted to just comment briefly on how Dr.
Frederick and I and even you are really following the tradition of W. Montague Cobb.
(43:05):
And he took what he learned in medical school, what he learned getting his Ph.D.
In anthropology and his work with cultural bioanthropology.
And he took that to a larger level in the community, in the world,
by participating in the NAACP, National Urban League, and really being able to impact communities.
(43:26):
And I think that's what we're doing here. We're taking what we've learned,
and we're really trying to impact communities, the world, really.
And so, again, it just circles back to the privilege to be able to work under
his name on the board and to be able to continue his work in the spirit of it,
of taking it really from the classroom to the community. I agree.
(43:51):
And interestingly, you alluded to the Ent Dimensions program and Dr.
Bonnie Simpson Mason, who also was a Howard graduate and faculty member in terms of orthopedics.
And so I'm certain a lot of her vision was born right there at Howard, as yours was and mine.
(44:13):
Dr. Frederick, any last reflections on where we're going?
Yeah, I think if we're looking at the 30,000-foot view, we're looking to improve
humanity and allow humanity to be its best self, being on the receiving side and the giving side.
So that's kind of, you know, when I look at the advocacy that Dr.
(44:36):
Pab did, I look at the advocacy in terms of what he did in 1955 when he said
that he would not go to one of the conventions, I think it was the American
Advancement of Science in Atlanta,
where they said you can come, but you can't stay there. And he said he would not go.
And so I'm reminded that we have to be strong.
(44:58):
And the following year, they had a different policy, and he was able to stay.
But I'm encouraged of the historical support that this organization brings.
And the reflection knowing that we stand on the shoulders of many giants and
we have to continue to work because he would have wanted us to continue this
work to an advocacy for the next generation of medical professionals.
(45:21):
Well stated. And I certainly appreciate the time that both of you have contributed
not only to this program today but to the leadership of the Cobb Institute and
putting together our symposium,
which I'm sure is going to be a rousing success.
And we all work in such crowded spaces and calendars.
(45:44):
But to be able to be as productive, the best thing to do is to get a busy person,
because then you're always successful.
That's what Dr. Pettyoni always said. If you want something done,
give it to a busy person. Busy person.
So thank you very much and look forward to the next opportunity.
(46:05):
Thank you so much for the opportunity and your leadership, Dr. Morgan.
Music.
I did not have any physicians in my family, and it was my aunt who introduced me to Dr.
Muriel Petioni, and Dr. Petioni was my mentor for over 40 years.
Just to be able to see the way that she advocated for her patients and for the
community was so important.
(00:22):
The BEST, which stands for Brain Expansion Scholastic Training,
is really my journey personally.
It started out with the opportunities I got as a teenager with my mom opening
some doors for me to allow me to be in the hospital.
It's a journey through college where I had to overcome some challenges and setbacks.
(00:43):
It's a journey during my gap year, I kind of rebounded and had that confidence come back again.
It's a journey through med school where I had to kind of shift as all medical
students have had to do, shift how you learn and study.
We have to get creative and smart about how to continue these programs,
(01:09):
remembering what the climate is like now and what it may be in the future.
For us to continue to work, we've got to have private philanthropy funding and
also corporate funding that does not really get mixed with governmental political discussions.
(01:32):
For example, the National Science Foundation, National Institutes of Health,
for every grant that's submitted,
they really want to have a dissemination plan and also know how they want you
to have a plan for how you're going to reach underrepresented minority students.
Institutions, medical schools, for example, are really starting to lean into
(01:55):
community-based organizations to help them to fulfill those requirements.
And I think that it's important for us to take what we discussed today and to
put it in a form that can be shared with the membership of the National Medical
(02:16):
Association so that people can and understand what they can do in their own communities.
Music.
Welcome to another episode of Cobb & Company, the podcast of the W.
(02:38):
Montague Cobb Institute.
We are recording live and in person in New York at the NMA Convention and Scientific Assembly.
I am Dr. Randall Morgan. I'm president and CEO of the Cobb Institute.
Over the coming months, we are welcoming numerous thought leaders in the areas
of health equity and increasing diversity in the healthcare workforce.
(03:02):
Both of my guests today are leading important initiatives that are proactively
moving the needle for workforce diversity.
Welcome, Dr. Lynn Holden. Thank you. And welcome, Dr. Dexter Frederick.
Thank you. And I must say that these distinguished leaders and physicians are
also members of the board of directors of the W.
(03:26):
Montague Cobb Health Institute and have been the co-chairs for our upcoming
symposium, which will occur later this afternoon, about the best-in-class of mentoring programs.
So stay tuned. Dr. Lynn Holden is professor of emergency medicine at Albert
Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx,
(03:47):
New York, and a practicing emergency department physician attending at Montefiore
Health Systems on the Moses campus.
Dr. Holden is senior associate dean of diversity and inclusion at the Albert
Einstein College of Medicine, and this is a very recent appointment.
(04:07):
She earned her Bachelor of Science in Zoology from Howard University,
graduated from Temple University School of Medicine, and completed her residency
in emergency medicine at the Albert Einstein College of Medicine,
the start of a long association.
She is a member of Delta Sigma Theta Incorporated and well-met,
(04:29):
a female giving circle that supports social justice organizations.
Dr. Holden is also the co-founder and president emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine,
a national nonprofit organization dedicated to inspiring and equipping students
to become healthcare professionals through academic enrichment,
(04:52):
leadership development,
civic engagement, and mentoring.
Through conferences, hip-hop plays, school-based, and virtual programs,
mentoring in medicine has reached nearly 85,000 students from elementary school
through to medical school,
while nearly 1,200 program participants have pursued a variety of biomedical careers.
(05:18):
572 have become doctors. Dr.
Dexter Frederick was appointed Associate Dean of Diversity, Equity,
and Inclusion at Loma Linda University Health School of Medicine in California.
This is also a very recent appointment. He is also an Associate Professor of
(05:40):
Pediatrics and Medicine at the university. Dr.
Frederick is a board-certified physician in both internal medicine and pediatrics
and is a fellow of the American College of Physicians and a diplomat of the
American Board of Pediatrics.
He also has a certificate in diversity and inclusion from Cornell University's
(06:00):
School of International and Labor Relations. Dr.
Frederick is the founder and CEO of the Brain Expansion Scholastic Training, or BEST, organization,
a community-based initiative whose mission it is to identify,
inspire, and educate underrepresented youth interested in pursuing health careers.
(06:26):
Over the past two decades, the guidance and support for students of color has been significant.
So thank you again for both taking your time to be a part of this important
discussion, but more importantly to lending your careers and your expertise
to the programs of the Cobb Institute.
(06:48):
We feel it's very important to have those who are knowledgeable about the programs
that we are involved in in the Cobb Institute to be a part of the leadership.
And our board for 20 years has always been a part of the leadership.
So we again, thank you very much.
So let's get our discussion off today.
(07:09):
And I will ask both of you, mentoring is key to successful completion of each
stage of a medical or scientific career.
Can you each share with us one personal example, either as a mentor or a mentee,
which illustrates how transformative these relationships can be?
Dr. Holden? Well, first of all, Dr. Morgan, I want to thank you for your leadership
(07:34):
of the Cobb Institute and for the privilege of serving on the board of directors.
So I think you also need to be applauded. Thank you so much.
Thank you. This is an interesting question.
I'm going to talk actually from the point of view of a as a mentee myself.
I did not have any physicians in my family. And it was my aunt who introduced
(07:57):
me to Dr. Muriel Petioni.
And Dr. Petioni was my mentor for over 40 years. She was the first person when,
at the age of 13, took me under her wing and allowed me to shadow her in her office in Harlem.
Dr. Pettioni was known as the mother of medicine in Harlem.
And so I really did not know what really the exposure over the course of years
(08:24):
would mean, but it is obvious that she rubbed off on me, quite frankly.
So not only was it just the ability to see her in action with her patients,
with the community, and to be able to develop strategies myself to emulate that,
but it was also her connections, her networking.
We would go to different events and she would ask me to accompany her and I
(08:48):
would meet people that I only read about or heard about, but that she was close to.
And so mentoring is not only that relationship that you build with one person
or people to help you in various aspects of your career, but it also can lead to sponsorship.
And Dr. Petty only was certainly a sponsor, mentor and a sponsor for me over
(09:12):
the course of the 40 years.
Well, thank you very much. I've heard a lot about Dr. Pettiglione.
I'm not sure that I met her. I probably did early in my career in NMA,
but certainly she's had a number of things named for her,
the Council of Concerns of Women, and I think you're very privileged to have
(09:35):
had that close-up relationship with her.
What's an example of one of the community activities that you became knowledgeable
about just by being with her?
Well, for example, Dr. Petioni was really the definition of the feet on the street.
(09:55):
Even though she had a practice, she was very involved not only in day-to-day
operations of her business, but also with the community and also advocacy.
And one event that I went to that really sticks out in my head is at the Adam Clayton Powell Center.
It's in Harlem on 125th Street. And she was the keynote speaker,
(10:19):
but also Charlie Rangel was there at the time. David Dinkins was there.
So the powerhouses really of in New York City and the country really at that time. And so it was Dr.
Pettioni who invited me to come to that event.
And I was able to see her in action like I had never seen her before.
And it was just such, it was an amazing experience.
(10:42):
And I was, you know, just taking mental notes, physical notes,
and really just to be able to see the way that she advocated for her patients
and for the community was so important.
One other observation, and then we're certainly going to have a chance to speak
with Dr. Frederick about this same topic.
In those days when you had a practice and you had autonomy about your practice and of your practice,
(11:08):
you were able to make lots of decisions about what happened just because you
felt it was the right thing to do, including having shadowing and having mentees
and mixing them in with your patients. You didn't have to worry about HIPAA.
There was just a lot of things that could be done.
Do you think that we need to have maybe a reset or...
(11:32):
Some better ways of incorporating shadowing in our mentoring experience for
young people now based upon the rules that we have?
What can we do to give people the same experience that you had?
Absolutely. It is a different time. It's a different time than it was 25 plus years ago.
(11:53):
But I will say that there are ways to work within the system.
For example, I have a shadowing program, volunteer and shadowing program in
the emergency department at Montefiore.
This summer, for example, we had about 100 students who participated in that program.
They participate in the program, but they have to go through a clearance process.
(12:13):
So this process includes almost a physical exam.
You have to make sure your shots are intact, your blood tests, drug screening, etc.
So there's so many hoops that the students have to go through in order to get
to the emergency department to have that experience.
But certainly those who have the social and emotional fortitude are the ones that make it through.
(12:37):
And it's sort of a test of, you know, how professional are they also?
But there are ways to really to work within the system to still achieve our goals.
Well, that's good to know because we've all had that same experience,
I think. We could all name several physicians in our community that were impactful,
(12:57):
and we have to make sure that that continues.
So, Dr. Frederick, tell us about your early experiences as a mentee or as a mentor. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much, Dr. Morgan. And again, like Dr.
Holden, thank you for the privilege to be on the board and to,
(13:19):
you know, stretch me in spaces that can allow me to be a mentor to others and
also be mentored by many in this circle.
I'll take it from the point of a mentee, you know, back in Tampa,
Florida, and one of our students started very eager to become a medical student
(13:40):
one day and aspired to be in medicine since she was a toddler.
And she, going through her courses, got through the first year,
and in the second year, she met some really tough times.
Coming from a single-family home, had some tough courses, and also unfortunately
her brother committed suicide.
(14:02):
And at that time she all of a sudden decided that medicine was not for her.
You know, she just couldn't focus, couldn't concentrate, and.
We connected through the pre-med office, and someone heard that you need to talk with Dr.
Frederick and his team and kind of get back on track.
(14:23):
And we got to talk and got to find out that she was going through experiences
of food desert, just really in a really low moment.
We continued to work with her, continued to wrap around her and allow her to
know that we just want to make sure you're okay while trying to support her dreams.
She got through, graduated from University of South Florida,
(14:47):
but then we told her, you know, maybe you need to just pause,
maybe do a master's, and which she did.
Came for around the MCAT, and we just said, this is your time to shine. Just focus on this.
Make a long story short, you know, she did well on the MCAT,
got 10 offers, full scholarships to 10 medical schools around the country and
(15:10):
decided to go to UCLA on a full scholarship.
I bring her up because this is someone, all she needed was someone to believe in her.
And when we talk about mentorship, it's just about trying to hold a hand and
trying to reinstate that confidence that she had as a bushy-eyed,
(15:30):
excited first-year college student.
And we took her on a journey. She's been on a journey, and I think as we mentor,
and I personally get mentored by others, it's my journey as I go through,
and I think that it's great to see her grow and to flourish now looking back.
(15:51):
Where is she now? What's her level now?
So she is taking a research year after her third year from UCLA doing Vanderbilt, doing dermatology.
Wonderful, wonderful. Wonderful. Yeah. And was UCLA...
A good choice for her? Yes, yes. She got into Stanford. She got into Hopkins.
(16:14):
She got, you know, a number of great schools. And I think one of the reasons
she chose was because of the curriculum,
the flexibility in the curriculum, and also the fact that she had some family
there, which would have given her some support, which was reasonable.
Because that's sort of that higher-level mentoring as well, that young people
(16:37):
need to be able to sort through the opportunities that they have and match them
up with their own personality or their own personal experiences.
Correct. Because top 10 schools may not be top 10 for everybody.
Absolutely. And the relationships that you have, that you both have,
able to kind of make those recommendations at a critical time, I think. Yes, yes. Yeah.
(17:03):
And, you know, to your point, she trusted me, and my wife was part of it,
too, where we sometimes nurture students.
She trusted us enough to keep us in touch and say, OK, I'm down to four schools.
What do you think? This is what the decision I made, and this is why.
And I think that relationship with mentees, we've got to develop that trust,
develop the fact that we're thinking, you know, what's best for you.
(17:27):
Well, she was very fortunate.
So, Dr. Holden, you are now President Emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine.
I don't understand how you're emeritus at your age, but at any rate,
back in the day, you were hands-on and getting the whole program off the ground.
(17:47):
What do you remember most about the challenges of getting started with mentoring
in medicine? Well, thank you for your kind words.
When I became the Senior Associate Dean for Diversity and Inclusion at Einstein
about two years ago, I then became President Emeritus of Mentoring in Medicine,
but still have my hand in it, of course.
And as you mentioned, there were challenges in getting it off the ground.
(18:10):
Just as Dr. Frederick mentioned that his wife helps him, my husband also helps me.
Actually, my husband was the brainchild behind Mentoring in Medicine, Andrew Morrison.
And so he always believed in the power of mentoring and mentoring in medicine
and the impact that it could have on students who were interested in health and science fields.
(18:33):
I did not. And I think that was probably, honestly, one of the biggest challenges
in starting mentoring in medicine.
I remember that we had a event called Dinner with Doctors and Other Healthcare
Professionals in Harlem.
Put out the event and we had maybe 50 people register.
(18:53):
But knowing our culture, we had 400 show up.
And not only 400 showed up, but the New York Times was there.
And that was our first event ever.
And so, you know, that was sort of proof that mentoring in medicine needs to be.
And that really helped sort of convince me. That was the evidence I needed,
(19:15):
I guess, to really go full force.
And I can say that another, and I'm sure Dr.
Frederick will comment on this, but finding funding to support the activities that were needed.
I spent almost 13 years on different admissions committees.
And so I know what the admissions committees are looking for.
(19:35):
And finding funding to be able to prepare our students for that and for those
skills that they They need such as critical thinking, intellectual curiosity,
reading comprehension. It's tough.
And so I've learned, even though I'm trained as an emergency medicine physician,
I've really had to become a self-taught, I wouldn't say relationship builder,
(19:57):
but yeah, relationship builder and grant writer.
And so I learned early on that you really have to diversify the funding sources
in order to sustain the programs.
And you always have to think steps ahead once you do get a grant,
especially if it's a one-year funding cycle, in order to be able to have the
(20:18):
continuity of programs and to continue to build your brand.
So I think those are the two biggest. And the other, I would say,
building a team, a team that you can trust, you know, has really that I could
trust, who has my same work ethic, has also been sort of tough.
But we've made it through, and, you know, we're still here since 2006.
(20:40):
Oh, absolutely. And, of course, there are great parallels to the Cobb Institute,
which has been here since 2004.
And as all nonprofits, it has its challenges in terms of funding and support
and understand that we have to be more—.
(21:03):
More agile sometime in making that happen.
So I know both of your programs have constantly required that,
and you've had interest from the philanthropic side of the community as well
as institutions that have supported it.
What do you think was the turning point for mentoring in Madison?
(21:25):
What got those 400 people there?
As I look back, I think it was people, you know, networking,
knowing the right people and the right people knowing what we're doing.
And the fact that our heart and soul was poured into this mission of helping
to expand the competitiveness of students who are applying to medical school.
And, you know, as always, it can be a phone call.
(21:46):
It could be someone who knows someone. We just don't know the circles that people
travel in. So that's why it's so important.
Relationship building, networking, press, getting press, press writing,
peer-reviewed articles.
So all of that is so important to continue to get that exposure.
And Dr. Frederick, as I came to South Florida almost 20 years ago,
(22:09):
I heard of the BEST program and close by in Tampa,
and I saw all of the things that you did personally and the amount of time that
you spent in making sure that this was a successful program.
Can you give us a little history of how the BEST program started and when you
(22:33):
felt like you were really beginning to gather momentum?
So, you know, the BEST, which stands for Brain Expansion Scholastic Training,
is really my journey personally.
It started out with the opportunities I got as a teenager with my mom opening
some doors for me to allow me to be in the hospital.
It's a journey through college where I had to overcome some challenges and setbacks.
(22:58):
It's a journey where during my gap year, I kind of rebounded and had the confidence come back again.
It's a journey through med school where I had to kind of shift as all medical
students have had to do, shift how you learn and study.
And then also, So I was also a National Health Service Corps scholar.
(23:18):
So that allowed me to go back into the inner city, into working with patients that looked like me,
working with teenagers that were interested in becoming medical professionals
and had no one in their family who were in medicine.
And that's kind of the birth of it. So here you have the coming together of
(23:40):
my experience, the coming together of a need, working in Tampa,
Florida when I got there in 2002.
And students asking, you know, what can I do to become a nurse, a doctor?
And, you know, many of them had coaches of how to become a great basketball
player, volleyball player, but no one. And so I decided that I wanted to be
an agent of change, and we started an organization in 2004.
(24:04):
So about 20 years, same time COOP got started. And so, you know,
we have this vision that, you know, if someone, any student from any background
who is interested in becoming a physician, we should give them everything that they need to do so.
And that's kind of what we've done over the years. And one of the unique things, and I think Dr.
Holden brought it in, is programs, we have to kind of, you know,
(24:29):
lean into the new generation, you know, Gen Zs in terms of how they think, how they approach life.
And one of the unique things is that we've got to make it tangible.
We've got to have them see it. We've got to have them be in that space.
So when Dr. Holden talks about them being in the emergency room, that is so key.
(24:51):
And that's one of the staple things
about our program, that our students actually going to the hospitals.
So the turning point was from 2004 to 2012, a lot of it was in the community.
We would take the students to fire stations, to dental clinics, you know.
But in 2012, we changed it to a hospital-based program, which really made the
(25:14):
reality of them being a doctor one day very tangible, very real.
And from that point, the community and hospitals and academic institutions around
us really corralled around us, funded us, and especially Moffitt Cancer Center
to support what we're doing.
And over the years, you know, we've impacted more than 5,000 students and a
(25:37):
number of students have gone on to become physicians, nurses.
And occupational therapists.
Some patients, one of the unique things is that even though we want them to
become physicians, there are some students that they have a proclivity and they
are pulled toward maybe becoming a physical therapist or a physician assistant.
(25:57):
But we just want them to be their best selves and have the opportunity to make
decisions to kind of control their direction.
So it's been a great run for 20 years, a great impact.
Well, it's just amazing to me that each of you had a vision,
a vision that was based upon your own personal experiences, and you were able
(26:19):
to transfer that vision into practice.
Outward experiences that affect the community and the difference between New
York, the Bronx, Tampa, Florida.
And then you also went to Loma Linda for medical school, didn't you?
(26:40):
Correct. Right. So I went to Loma Linda after I finished my undergrad in arrester therapy.
I did that pre-med. Then I went out to Loma Linda there for four years and did
some international national mission trips also while there, and did med peds,
did chief residency in pediatrics.
And being part of National Health Service Corps, you then had to leave and serve.
(27:04):
And so I decided that I'd come back east on the other side and was there for
20 years and recently relocated back to Loma Linda.
So how are we going to replicate these programs nationally, Find the next generation.
You mentioned the ability to communicate with younger generation.
(27:26):
I think we certainly need that. The National Medical Association needs that.
The Cobb Institute needs it. Almost all organizations.
But as far as the mentoring programs are concerned...
Is there any thought of trying to replicate them?
(27:47):
Lynn, I think you've had some involvement, haven't you, in other places besides New York?
Yes. So our headquarters is in the Bronx, but we've done work really across
the country as far as Alaska, Bozeman, Montana, Tampa, Florida,
actually, Orlando, big urban epicenters.
And I think your question is very important.
(28:07):
And there is a way to replicate. Of course, the traditional way where you have
chapters, we have examples of that with Dale's organization,
Black Men in White Coats.
Also, we have other ways to replicate.
Virtual learning now since COVID has become, quote unquote, acceptable.
(28:29):
But with Mentoring in Medicine, since 2009, we've been doing a summer science
camp, a virtual summer science camp, where we have had students,
international students, as far as Brazil and Africa, tuning in in the wee hours
of the morning to the content that we were providing.
And I wrote a paper about the impact of virtual learning and how that can be
(28:53):
used as a vehicle in urban epicenters to tell students about the opportunities
in health. But besides that, partnerships.
So partnerships with medical schools, partnerships with medical societies like
the National Medical Association, where the students may get their core content online,
(29:13):
but their experiential learning could be through partnerships throughout the country.
So there are definitely ways, you know, to replicate the work that Dr.
Fredericks and I are doing.
And I think it really takes, you know, strong staff to be able to do that. And as Dr.
Fredericks said, you know, it's a bit of a challenge, but it happens in time.
(29:36):
There are certain principles, I think, and certain assets that any organization
would have to have if you want to replicate.
So we did another replication of another program in another county for the first
time this last past summer.
And I must say that, you know, Dr. Holden and myself, we've been doing this a while.
(30:01):
If you want a program, in our minds, we can envision it.
And tell you what to do and put some things in place because we've done it for so long.
And I think we take for granted the fact that there are individuals,
there are hospitals, there are community centers, there are academic health
care institutions that would want to know how we come up with these ideas or what they can do.
(30:26):
And I was amazed that we gave them the template. We worked with another hospital in Ocala, Florida.
That's probably about 100 miles.
East of Tampa, Florida, but we gave them the template and they took it and ran with it.
Of course, we provided the curriculum, but in terms of the organization,
(30:47):
in terms of the big framework, and I think hospitals are looking for something
like what we can provide.
And we are here to share. We are here to kind of guide them on what to do because
many times you have to do it right from the experience we have garnered.
Because what can happen is that if you don't do it right and a student accidentally
(31:10):
or something is done wrong or the professional approach to training in a hospital is not done right,
your reputation is affected.
So I think that the key thing here is doing it in a way that is very professional,
that creates excellence, that creates results,
(31:33):
and I think after 20 years that we've been in doing this,
I think we have a few, we can say a few words in terms of how to do it right.
What would be the categories of support that would be most interested in supporting replication?
(31:53):
Are you finding support and interest in private philanthropy?
Corporate support, governmental support, or in some cases, hospitals,
hospital systems, to support the types of mentoring that you have been able to establish?
(32:15):
Well, I'll speak to the fact that all of the above have been,
have really helped to support the work that is being done with mentoring in medicine.
And, you know, the times are changing, As we mentioned before,
with being more strict as far as shadowing, but also with diversity,
equity and inclusion programs across the country.
(32:36):
And so there are some states, Texas, Ohio, even parts of Florida,
where such programs are being eliminated.
So it is a struggle to really to maintain the level of mentorship and involvement
that has been helping students in the past.
So we have to get creative and smart about how to continue these programs,
(33:02):
remembering what the climate is like now and what it may be in the future.
So to answer your question, I think leaning into philanthropic support is going
to be very important moving forward.
Yeah, I echo what Lynn said.
And I think you're a community-based organization, correct?
(33:26):
We are. Community-based nonprofit. And I think that's what makes us unique in
the longevity of our programs.
Could you imagine if our programs, at least in Florida, was connected to a university?
Our program would probably be gone by now. So I think with that being community-based,
it's even more so for us to continue to work, we've got to have private philanthropy
(33:51):
funding and also corporate funding that does not really get mixed with governmental
political discussions.
So that is definitely something I think in terms of innovation and making the
work continue, I think community-based organizations of this work need to continue.
I mean, when you look at when HCOP, the funding for HCOP was cut,
(34:15):
that decreased the strength of the work.
And we hope that will come back at some point in time to expand that work because
that was very effective, you know, back in the day.
So I think that private philanthropy is important so that we can do the work
without being tied, getting our hands tied and being creative and being innovative
(34:37):
and thinking outside the box.
Yes, I think that's really important also, because the program that we originally
envisioned may have to be morphed into another program in order to really be
funded at the level that it needs to be.
So always thinking, really always being more flexible about the support that we get.
(35:00):
And we can't forget in-kind support. There's so much that can come from someone
allowing you to use their space or someone saying, OK, I'm going to support
an administrative assistant for you for 10 hours a week.
So, again, that comes back to circles back to relationships and really being
able to to really appreciate the power of all types of support and making both
(35:24):
of our organizations not only survive, but thrive.
So I think that really that discussion leads us to today and the symposium,
which we will have in a few hours,
here at the National Medical Association that's focused upon best-in-class mentoring
programs and how they will fare in the new environment in the United States
(35:51):
post the Supreme Court decision of 2023.
Dr. Frederick, would you want to begin a discussion of this important topic
and also maybe share why you felt it was important for us to do this type of symposium at this time?
(36:12):
Great question. So as you know, last year, the SCOTUS decision,
and the reason why at this point in time, at such a time as this,
if I may use that phrase, is because if we are going to really mitigate health disparities,
if we're really serious about our patients surviving,
(36:37):
and especially those from marginalized backgrounds,
we've got to prime the pump.
And what has worked in the path in terms of admitting students who are.
Are part of a population, part of a community that looks like that community.
Well, individuals, admissions departments, now medical schools, their hands are tied.
(37:00):
And they're finding creative ways to get around that. However,
as they try to be creative, you have departments that are being closed,
so there's no funding to do what you would want to do to be creative.
So it behooves community-based organizations. It behooves hospitals.
I mean, I think hospitals have to understand and,
(37:23):
you know, there are boxes they need to check for Jayco and for Medicare where
they have to show they're taking care of the least among them.
And if you don't have individuals or physicians or healthcare professionals
that, you know, reflect that community.
(37:43):
Then it, you know, you're not going to do the best job in saving lives and creating
that sense of community at your hospital.
So, I say that to say that, you know, we have to, the support that medical schools used to give,
that support needs to come from hospitals where they need to invest in,
(38:06):
you know, paying for medical students to go to medical school so that they can
bring those students back to work at their hospitals.
So corporations understanding that, healthcare companies to understand that
if you have a community of lives, as we call them, that in order to serve that community,
you need to provide physicians that reflect that community.
(38:28):
And it's important to reinvest that time, individual, that money into the lives
of those students. So, because at this point in time, we have to think outside the box.
And I think that today we will hear a few from the AAMC and also from Dr.
Bright about some ways, things we can do. But creativity, innovation, we have to flow with it.
(38:53):
Yes, I agree with everything you have said, Dr. Frederick.
I think the other interesting piece is that even though the SCOTUS decision
has affected medical school admissions,
there are some who are broadening that SCOTUS decision to college and pathway
and pathway programs and others that I don't think the intent was there originally yet. Right.
(39:18):
For example, the National Science Foundation, National Institutes of Health,
for every grant that's submitted, they really want to have a dissemination plan
and also know how they want you to have a plan for how you're going to reach
underrepresented minority students.
And so institutions, medical schools, for example, are really starting to lean
(39:40):
into community-based organizations to help them to fulfill those requirements.
And so I think that it's important that the work that Dr.
Frederick, myself, and others like Bonnie Mason and Dimension that we're doing
as community-based organizations is strengthened.
And wherever the wave is going, that we are able to maintain the work that we're
(40:05):
doing and to not only maintain it, but sustain it and grow it.
Because we may be those who are able to kind of carry this mission forward until
we stabilize the situation.
Well, innovation is the most important word here, and flexibility. ability.
(40:27):
And I think that it's important for us to take what we discussed today and to
put it in a form that can be shared with the membership of the National Medical
Association so that people can understand what they can do in their own communities,
particularly as you're stating that a lot of this is going to be community-based.
(40:48):
The final impact downstream is going to be community-based.
And so, that involves everybody.
So, hopefully, we will be able to share through our reflections,
through the follow-up, through the podcast, through whatever means we have of
communication to build the army within the National Medical Association.
(41:15):
Of support for the next generation.
Absolutely. And most of us realize that we didn't get here by ourselves.
Right. And so it is our kind of unspoken pact duty to pay it forward.
And so I think that with the right infrastructure, that the members of NMA will
(41:37):
be motivated, energized, really, given the climate, to carry these programs
and this mission forward.
You know, one of the things, if I could add, is that, you know,
the AAMC is very committed to diversity in medicine.
And I think institutions, whether you're a dean of admissions,
(41:57):
whether or not you're diversity, equity, inclusion, whatever you are in administration,
there is a business case to be made for your medical school staying open.
And that business case is accreditation.
And part of what the WEMC is saying is that we need you to diversify.
(42:17):
We need you to think of creating cultural and developing culturally competent
physicians for the new pluralism that's going to be happening in the next couple
of years in terms of patients.
So I think with that commitment, we can be empowered to go back to our institutions
and say that we need to stay accredited and we need to create pathways that
(42:41):
shows our support for creating the next generation of physicians that are from
all demographic agents.
Dr. Holden, any last reflections? Well, I just wanted to just comment briefly on how Dr.
Frederick and I and even you are really following the tradition of W. Montague Cobb.
(43:05):
And he took what he learned in medical school, what he learned getting his Ph.D.
In anthropology and his work with cultural bioanthropology.
And he took that to a larger level in the community, in the world,
by participating in the NAACP, National Urban League, and really being able to impact communities.
(43:26):
And I think that's what we're doing here. We're taking what we've learned,
and we're really trying to impact communities, the world, really.
And so, again, it just circles back to the privilege to be able to work under
his name on the board and to be able to continue his work in the spirit of it,
of taking it really from the classroom to the community. I agree.
(43:51):
And interestingly, you alluded to the Ent Dimensions program and Dr.
Bonnie Simpson Mason, who also was a Howard graduate and faculty member in terms of orthopedics.
And so I'm certain a lot of her vision was born right there at Howard, as yours was and mine.
(44:13):
Dr. Frederick, any last reflections on where we're going?
Yeah, I think if we're looking at the 30,000-foot view, we're looking to improve
humanity and allow humanity to be its best self, being on the receiving side and the giving side.
So that's kind of, you know, when I look at the advocacy that Dr.
(44:36):
Pab did, I look at the advocacy in terms of what he did in 1955 when he said
that he would not go to one of the conventions, I think it was the American
Advancement of Science in Atlanta,
where they said you can come, but you can't stay there. And he said he would not go.
And so I'm reminded that we have to be strong.
(44:58):
And the following year, they had a different policy, and he was able to stay.
But I'm encouraged of the historical support that this organization brings.
And the reflection knowing that we stand on the shoulders of many giants and
we have to continue to work because he would have wanted us to continue this
work to an advocacy for the next generation of medical professionals.
(45:21):
Well stated. And I certainly appreciate the time that both of you have contributed
not only to this program today but to the leadership of the Cobb Institute and
putting together our symposium,
which I'm sure is going to be a rousing success.
And we all work in such crowded spaces and calendars.
(45:44):
But to be able to be as productive, the best thing to do is to get a busy person,
because then you're always successful.
That's what Dr. Pettyoni always said. If you want something done,
give it to a busy person. Busy person.
So thank you very much and look forward to the next opportunity.
(46:05):
Thank you so much for the opportunity and your leadership, Dr. Morgan.
Music.
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