June 21, 2025 • 36 mins
Episode 86: Staying Afloat in the Inbetween
In this episode of 'Conversations with Kimen,' host Kimen Petersen delves into the often-overlooked phase of recovery for athletes—the 'in-between' period following an injury but before full readiness for high-intensity training. Through personal reflections and insights from working with athletes, Kimen discusses the importance of patience, trust, belief, and emotional resilience. He highlights the stages of grieving, acceptance, and staying connected. The episode also emphasizes the role of proper recovery practices, including nutrition, sleep, and stress mitigation, in overcoming and preventing injuries. Whether you're an athlete or someone facing life's challenges, this episode offers wisdom on navigating transitional phases with grace and strength.
00:00 Introduction to Conversations with Kimen
00:39 Navigating Injury Recovery
01:53 The Role of Patience and Adaptation
05:52 Stages of Injury and Recovery
08:53 The Importance of Recovery and Support
18:14 Acceptance and Staying Connected
25:16 Building Resilience and Trust
36:02 Conclusion and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
. Conversations with Kimen is aboutinspiration, life lessons, and wisdom.
Your host, Kimen Petersen shareshis stories to inspire you to live
a more soulful and illuminated life.
The topics covered in this podcastare as personal opinions inspired by
life, experience, and conversationsshared with amazing people.
Kimen hopes to encourage you tobe guided by life in the flow.
(00:23):
So the whole journey is moremanageable and joyful and fulfilling.
Staying afloat in the in-between.
It's interesting, I, I've beenthinking about this 'cause I have
a few athletes have been through,um, it's pretty tough times.
(00:47):
Injury recovery.
Injury recovery cycles.
And I was thinking aboutone particular athlete.
And how they've been throughthis whole process and it's
gone on for quite a while.
And they're sitting in this spacewhere they're recovered from the
(01:08):
injury and they're slowly, um,working on adapting their body,
um, for the upcoming coming load.
But, you know, nobody really talksabout the time in between, right.
Like the time between the, theinjury, the recovery, and the injury.
(01:30):
And then there's a space.
Well, body needs time to adapt.
Um, mind, soul, heart needs time to adaptfor the upcoming load because if you
go back too fast, it could not be good.
Right?
(01:51):
And I was just thinking about this person.
'cause like
how much, you know, how much patiencedoes it take to sit in this place
where you're no longer injured
but you're not ready to likedo the really hard work?
(02:13):
And how much maturity, intellect, um.
Patience does it take to hold backand let your body get ready to
go back into the kind of work ittakes to be incredible athlete.
(02:39):
So I was chatting with thisathlete and I hope one day when
everything's in the rear view mirror.
Um, they'll be a guest onmy, on my podcast so you
can get to know this person.
Um,
I've talked about 'em a lot in episodes.
Um, they inspire me like youwouldn't believe, and I'm sure that
(03:01):
some of the people listening arevery inspired by this human being.
And if you told this athlete this,they would probably just brush
it off and go, like, you know,I'm just doing what I'm doing.
But, you know, that's, that'show inspiring people are.
They're not going out tryingto be inspiring, they just are.
(03:22):
Yeah.
You can't do inspiring it.
It is not a thing you can do.
It's only a thing you can be.
So it, uh, I see this athlete prettymuch every week and I was like, last
week they came up with a great idea.
I'm like, oh, what's the idea this week?
And they're like, well, I don't know.
I'm not sure.
(03:42):
And we started chatting and then I broughtup this idea that I've been thinking about
them, um, that they're in this phase.
That's, you know,
you're kinda living in this space where
a lot of what's happened,your body's recovered from,
(04:04):
and now there's gonna besome time before your body's.
Ready to go out and do thatreally, really hard work.
And how, as an athlete, like as a verycompetitive human being, how do you,
how do, like, not only how do you getthrough like the, the initial thing, like
(04:27):
initially there's, there's a problem.
And how it typically works.
There's something come, comes up andit's a typically a sudden onset thing,
or it's a relatively sudden onset,or it starts with an aggravation,
which suddenly gets really bad.
And then there's, there's,there's a kind of a time delay.
(04:47):
Um, there's this incredible,uh, sports MD in in town who I
don't know how she does it, she.
We'll make time for people when, whenthey need, like, they don't have to
wait an extended period of time, andshe's able to, um, somehow to get
imaging a little faster, especiallyfor these incredible athletes.
(05:10):
So we can know, we can either havea rule out and know there's nothing
seriously wrong or we can have aconfirmation there's a problem, and
so, so that we can come up with a plan.
Like, what do we need to do in orderto maximize recovery, in order to
minimize the, the time away from sport?
(05:33):
And she's really great at like lookinginto all the underlying things to see
what could be going on and connecting,connecting athletes with amazing
resources, like amazing manual therapists.
Um, yeah,
so.
I thought we'd just go, kindof go through the stages.
(05:54):
We'll start with the initial, and itseems like initially when an athlete,
something comes up that's significant.
Like if you ever worked withreally incredible athletes
working at a high level, you'llnotice that every, like, there's.
Consistently, notconstantly, but consistently.
(06:15):
There's gonna be things that getaggravated, and that's what I'm working on
in my practice is something's aggravated.
We, we try to calm it down.
We try to see kind of like look backand see what, what is aggravated.
I. And typically the area that'saggravated is not probably
where the problem's coming from.
Um, a lot of times it's somethingelse is the issue, which, and
(06:39):
that's a result of the issue.
Uh, one of, one of my, uh, clinicsupervisors when I was in school
used to say, don't chase the pain.
Like, definitely address the areathat the, the person has pain.
But then really think aboutclinically, think about like,
okay, so if this area is tight.
Um, if it's a ma, uh, like a moreminor, a secondary muscle, like what is
(07:04):
the primary mover, uh, of that actionthat's, that that muscle's aggravated
and let's go back there and see if,like, is that one, it's that the, where
the problem's coming so far, we couldtreat the problem from the source,
not from the, the resulting symptom.
So typically, we'll, I'llbe working with an athlete.
(07:28):
And something will come up.
And it's interesting with significantinjuries, they come up one of two ways.
They start with an aggravation that gets,uh, keeps on getting worse until the
point where, um, move them up to SportsMD and the Sports MD is going to assess
them and probably see if they can getsome imaging and then they're gonna either
(07:53):
confirm there's an issue or rule it out.
Now in this situation, um, it, for thispodcast we're gonna talk about when
there's a confirmation and it's, youknow, it's really tough for an athlete
'cause these, these human beings are sodriven and working so hard and, you know,
(08:19):
sometimes on the edge of injury, right?
And remember.
Uh, uh, this is one of the things I alwayslike to clarify at this point is that they
used to think that injury was a result ofoverwork, like working too hard, too much.
Like the body could only handle so much.
(08:39):
And see, I don't believe that.
I think the body isincredibly strong, resilient.
It's built and designed to heal itself.
It can and will,
but you have to match.
Your recovery with your load, and thisis what they understand now, is that
injury is not a result of overwork, it'sa result of undercover and undercover.
(09:05):
Um, is a broad spectrum, right?
Um, recovery is a broad spectrum.
Spectrum.
First off, there's nutrition, liketaking enough nutrition, taking at
the right intervals, fueling for thehard stuff and what to eat after.
And I know there's, there's thisamazing, uh, uh, in Vancouver sports
(09:27):
dietician and I know she works.
She works remotely too.
Her name's Sandra Kim Kilmartin.
Um, you can find her at NoSweat Nutrition on Instagram.
Um.
Man, there's a multitudeof people that see her.
Um, she's, she could really guide youif you're, if you're working towards
(09:47):
athletics, um, in what, what to eat,um, and when to eat and how much.
'cause there's this incredibly, uh,misguided conception that like the
lighter you are, the faster you are.
So that's one aspect.
Another aspect of courseis getting enough sleep.
(10:09):
Sleep is vitally important.
Um,
what can we say so important,um, mitigating stress.
Mitigating stress.
High, high cortisol levels, highstress levels, like incredible
athletes are always gonna be runningat some kind of a high stress level.
But then you have to findways to mitigate that.
(10:32):
Now how can you do that?
Like we talk about, um, workingwith mental performance,
working with mental health, uh.
Y you know, even like a 30 minutewarm bath will lower cortisol levels.
Uh, massage therapylowers cortisol levels.
The idea of finding ways to enhancecalm, making sure you're getting
(10:56):
enough sleep and sleep is interesting.
It's, it is gotta be consistent.
The same, same like going to bed at thesame time, getting up at the same time
in the morning, that kind of thing.
Um.
Incorporating recovery days, workingwith a, a strength and conditioning
person to make sure that your body'sresilient and strong recovery comes in it.
(11:21):
It's a huge spectrum.
So this is one of the most importantthings, especially if you're starting
to find a cycle of injury, is likelooking at all those pieces of the
puzzle and bringing them together.
So, like I said, um.
Res injury is not a result ofoverwork, it's a result of undercover.
(11:46):
And that brings the powerback into your hands.
So it takes away the fear.
'cause the body is builtand designed to heal itself.
It can in a will.
So a lot of times the athletes willcome in, um, right after they get
the word that it's a confirmationof, say, a bone injury and.
(12:08):
Bone injuries at the, atleast, at the very least.
And not to minimize how tough it is.
'cause anytime you have a breakin training, like a non, like a,
a non-planned break in training,it, it's gonna, it's gonna
throw, throw things off a bit.
But not only that, when you're,when you're that committed and
(12:31):
when it happens coming intosomething important, it's hard.
Now, bone injuries can take anywherefrom six to eight weeks to recover
depending on the bone injury.
Sometimes like a fal uh, neckstress fracture can take more, but
at least when it's a bone injury,we know there's a finite time for,
(12:52):
for, um, recovery, uh, and rebuild.
And the, the incredible thing about thehuman body is typically it, it will.
There's a, there's thing called Wolf'slaw that the body lays down, like,
um, more bone on areas of stress.
So I imagine same with recovery.
(13:12):
When it, when it repairs, it probablyrepairs it stronger than it was
before, which is a good thing to know.
'cause like people get reallyafraid when they have bone injuries.
But getting back to it, like thestage one of this whole process,
um.
I can't tell you how many people I'vebeen with, and they've just broken
(13:33):
down understanding that what's goingon, that they have this injury, that
it's going to impact their races andtheir, their training, um, their,
if they're on a team, their play,
and it's incredible.
There's some, some amazingly.
(13:58):
Open hard on your sleeves.
Athletes that will just break down.
And I really try to hold space and Ilet them know that, um, I know I can't
take away your pain, but I can make sureyou don't feel alone, that you're know
you're not alone through this process.
Let them know how much I care,
(14:20):
really give them space.
Some of them will say, you know,I'm not a crier, and I'm like, this
is the safest place in the world.
You need to let it out here.
So stage one is the graving process,and then I have these other incredible,
really, really tough athleteslike that will not, probably, will
never break down in my presence.
And that's fine.
(14:41):
So I always tell them, Hey, listen,okay, I, I, I know you're strong.
I know you're not gonna letthis out here, and that's okay.
But go home, turn on the music, hop in theshower, get really angry and cry it out.
Because you really, you have to feelwhat stage one is the grieving process.
You, when, when this kind of thinghappens, you have to feel what you're
(15:04):
feel feeling when you're feeling it.
You have to feel it.
You have to let it out.
The only way through is through, and Iknow that I went through times where.
I was so afraid to allow myself to feelbecause I felt like if I turned that
(15:26):
tap on, there was no way I would eversh it would, I could ever shut it off.
I could stop if I started letting it out.
It would be, it would, it wouldbe all encompassing and it would,
yeah, there's no way I could stop.
So I was told at that point itsaid like, you can actually,
when you're grieving, um.
(15:48):
When you have a safe moment, you can treatit like a valve, like imagine a little
valve and you can crack it open and leta little bit out, like let some pressure
off and then shut it when you need to.
And if you, you have a really safemoment when you're all alone, you can
crack it wide open and then you can shyou can, you can slowly shut it again.
You just let off the pressure.
Let off the pressure.
'cause the truth is, in the grievingprocess, there is a finite amount
(16:12):
of grief that's gonna come out.
Like you're gonna feel what you feel.
And you're gonna, if you let it out andyou don't push it down and you don't
hold it back, eventually you're gonnafeel your way all the way through it.
And that's the truth.
You have to feel your waycompletely through it.
And that might mean like, Idon't recommend you, I isolate.
(16:36):
'cause that's tough.
Like when you're goingthrough a tough time.
If you were seeing me, I wouldsay lean into your friend.
Lean your into your friends andthey're like, well, you know,
I don't wanna bother them.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
You know?
Okay.
So I'm gonna have to have thisconversation with you too.
Think about how you feelwhen a friend leans into you.
(16:58):
Like when you get to really support afriend, how does that make you feel?
Yeah, pretty good, right?
Like really, really supporting a friendin a tough time and really letting them
know how much you care who they arefor you, and that you're gonna be there
and they're not alone and you care.
That feels good, doesn't it?
And they're like, yeah, yeah.
(17:19):
Don't rip your friends off.
That people want to contribute whenyou're going through the grieving process.
It's okay to isolate a bit if you have to.
Maybe that's part of your routine.
Maybe you need to rest and isolatea little bit, but then start.
Leaning into your friends,
and that was what this athlete was saying.
(17:41):
It's like, yeah, definitely.
I really needed to feel whatI was feeling like and feel
my way all the way through it.
Another one of my athletes recentlyis going through something and
it's not diagnosed yet, but itdid, uh, come up right before the
two major races of their season.
So the, and the most, two andmost important races of the year.
(18:05):
Um, I can't even tell you how awfulthat is, like how tough that would be.
I don't know how I would reconcile that.
But this brings, brings in stagetwo and stage two is when you
come to a place of acceptance.
And acceptance is not settlingfor like, well, there's nothing I
(18:28):
can do, so I need to accept this.
No acceptance is accepting.
Everything that's going on forall that it is and all that.
It's not like come to anacceptance that this season is
over because of this injury.
I'm not going to compete this season.
And it's interesting, it's likecoming up, like when you're coming
(18:52):
up towards acceptance, it's so hard.
Like it, it feels like acceptanceis so hard and you're moving
your way towards it and like.
Working through it in your head,
it's, it's like the approach toacceptance is the hardest part.
Acceptance in itself happens in a snapwhen you actually accept where you are.
(19:18):
What's, and that's,
and that's stage two isfinding acceptance right
now.
Once you've grieved, once you'vefound acceptance, uh, this athlete
was like, she just nailed it, right?
(19:38):
She just nailed this, this human being,okay, let me just put it this way.
Imagine that you are, you.
There's something you absolutelylove, like you absolutely love in
this life, and you're pursuing bigthings and dreams, and then suddenly
(19:59):
injury takes it away from you.
And imagine how you'd feel.
And yet consciously, if you, ifyou focus on, if you really focus
on allowing yourself to feel whatyou feel around that, and you feel
your way through it, and then youcome to a place of acceptance.
(20:23):
Now, this athlete, I don't believe theymissed a single workout, even though.
This athlete could notparticipate in what they loved.
Just imagine this.
You show up for people
even though you can't, even thoughsomething's happened to your
(20:45):
body, you show up for all yourfriends, for all your teammates.
Like I also have a rugby player.
Same thing.
Shows up.
Just shows up, and thisis what the athlete said.
It's like the next stage of this like.
As you, you're, you're on right now.
You're on recovery, right?
You may or may not be cross training.
(21:08):
Um, maybe you're doing like physioexercises, you're getting treatment and
such, but you show up and then she saidthis, this, this stage, like grieving
is one, stage two is acceptance, andstage three is called staying connected.
(21:30):
Staying connected to your dream,staying connected to your friends,
staying connected to your team, staying.
Just staying connected.
Even if you can'tparticipate, show up for them.
Show up with them.
Show them who you are, you know?
(21:51):
And now, now you're inthe in-between, right?
Yeah, maybe you're coming to the pointwhere say the six to eight weeks, maybe 12
weeks is up and now you can start walkin.
Now, can you imagine being this incredibleathlete who could just like, who can
(22:12):
crush like an incredible speed on arace and now you have to slow right
down to almost nothing and you, youget to run for a little bit and then
walk, but it's kind of my kind of a jog.
And how humbling that could be and howdifficult it could be to do the work
(22:34):
now, because now the work is not pushing.
Now the work is not like going hardand like showing what you're capable
of and pushing past, like mental,emotional and physical limits.
I guess it is kind of pushingpast but in a different way.
Pushing back and hold,uh, pushing, pushing past.
(22:56):
In the holding back and not doing toomuch and not overdoing it, and following
the plan that was laid out by the physio.
Following it to the letter, understandingthat what you're doing now is like
walk around programs they like.
People used to think they were aboutcardio, but actually they, they're about
(23:17):
progressively loading the tissues likethe joints, bones, muscles, tendons.
Ligaments of the body to slowly adaptto returning to the previous load.
Now, I don't know about you 'causelike in some areas of my life I'm
(23:37):
pretty competitive and I feel likethis would be really hard to hold back.
But this is when you need to stay afloatbecause now you're in the in-between.
And the in-between phase can bepretty long, or at least it can feel
long because you know, it's like.
You can.
You can see you're on the climband you can see that summit.
(24:02):
You can see where you're going,but you can't rush there.
Now.
Now, now you'll lean into patience.
And patience for a competitivehuman being is probably one of
the hardest things in the world.
I mean.
Back.
Um, when I was, um, in my twenties, Iwas so impatient because like I was so
(24:26):
far from where I wanted to be in life andlike mentally, physically, emotionally.
I was so far from where I wanted to be inlife, where, where I hoped I could be one
and I just wanted to get there and it wasso like anxiety inducing and I actually.
(24:49):
Was in like one of these metaphysicalbookstores one day, and I looked on the
counter and they were selling these,these smooth stones with words cut in.
And I saw patience and I'mlike, oh my God, grab that.
Paid for it.
And it was in my pocket everywhereI went, and every time I felt
anxious, I'd rub the stone patience.
(25:16):
Patience is one of the most importantthings in the world, in the in-between.
I mean, nothing, nothing in thislifetime is going to get you through
the in-between, like patients will.
And like I said, I definitely re,I recommend it either put a poster
with PO patients on your wall,write it on your hand, put it on
(25:37):
your screensaver, on your phone.
If you can find a stonewith it, cut into it.
Keep it in your pocket.
Patience is going to pay offnot just through the in-between,
but in your whole life.
The other thing to hold on is like I'dsay these, these are the things you build.
(25:58):
So to make it through the InBetween,from recovered from injury to
the ability to go back to theworkouts, to like the hard work.
You need to build a raft and yourraft is going to consist of patience,
is gonna be one, one of the piecesof that raft, like understanding
(26:23):
that you are going to get there.
Now the other one you really need to get,write, really need to put down, and this
is another one you could put as a poster.
You could write it on your hand.
You could get a stone with trust.
You need to trust that the body isbuilt and designed to heal itself.
(26:44):
It can and it will.
It's resilient.
It's strong.
You need to trust that just becausesomething happened yesterday is
not going to happen again tomorrow.
On especially because like theperson you were, the athlete you
were, that led up to that incident.
(27:07):
You're not that person anymore.
You're not that athlete anymore.
You've learned through this process,you've probably enhanced your, your,
your strength and conditioning, your,your nutrition, your mental, physical
and emotional, your rest, your recovery.
You've probably, you've probablycha you've probably changed.
(27:27):
You're not the same athlete.
Not only that, if it's a boneinjury, especially your body's gonna
lay down extra bone in that area.
I, I, I think it's pretty rare that like,it, it can happen, but it's fairly rare
that you get the same injury in this exactsame place because your body is really
intelligent and it actually builds up the,builds up the tissue in that area to make
(27:50):
it more strong, make more real resilient.
And if you've been working withmanual therapy and incredible people.
They've been giving youexercises and things you can do.
This is the thing.
Patience is one part of your raft.
Trust is another part of the raft
(28:11):
and belief.
I think belief is a verybig part of the raft.
Honestly, I truly believe that you, youdidn't get this far to only get this far.
You know what I mean?
You didn't have a desire like any, anyonewho's an athlete, who, who does big
(28:33):
things, who's moving in a big directionlike this, it didn't happen by chance.
This is who you are.
This is your purpose.
This is why you are here.
This is not,
this is not a coincidencethat you made it this far.
And the truth is.
(28:56):
Everything that's happening isteaching us, is strengthening us.
Even, even the worst thingslike, like they say, have you
ever heard of a lotus flower?
Have you ever considered the fact thatone of the most beautiful flowers on
this planet will only bloom in a swampin muddy water by the light of the moon?
(29:21):
And if you could, and I don'twanna minimize that you're
going through tough times.
I don't wanna minimize that.
You have to feel it all andyou have to acknowledge it.
But also try to hold in the backof your mind and try to open your
eyes and keep, keep your eyes open.
What are the amazing things thathappened that probably wouldn't have
(29:43):
happened had you not had this incident?
Like what have you learned?
Who did you meet in this moment?
What did you create?
There's a volleyball player I work withand had a significant injury and ended up
going back to school during this injury.
And honestly, they probably wouldn'thave done that if it wasn't for that.
(30:05):
And they're moving in a direction ofa life that's gonna be incredible and
it's gonna help other human beings.
I'm not minimizing what you're goingthrough or what you've been through.
I'm just saying thateven the toughest things.
Have beauty and in my life, one ofmy favorite quotes is I owe every
(30:26):
bit of my life, every bit of mylight, L-I-G-H-T to all the darkness.
Had I not gone through all the stuff I'vegone through, I would not be who I am.
And when I have an athlete that comesin who's breaking down and hurting, I
recognize them because I've been through,I, I know what it feels like to hurt.
(30:51):
And my deepest desire is to be ofservice in that moment and to hold space.
And like I've learned over the years,I know I can't take your pain away, but
you know what I can do is make for damnsure that you know that you're not alone.
And you know that I carebecause I care so deeply.
Not in spite of what I've been through,but because of what I've been through.
(31:18):
Another part of your rest.
Uh, of your raft is protect your dream.
Nothing inherently means anythingunless you give it meaning.
And why would you give meaning a meaning?
Why would you give a meaning that doesn'twork or diminishes your possibility?
(31:43):
That's a good thought, eh.
You have to battle with theinner critic on this one.
You have to encourage, I I, my lastepisode I released the other day
was building the inner advocate.
Yeah.
(32:04):
And letting go of the inner critic.
This is a time that you can build.
This is a time you canbe your own cheerleader.
In the quiet moments when you're notsurrounded by people, you can, you
can have a little chat with yourself.
I know this is tough.
I know this is hard.
I know you wanna befurther, but just trust.
(32:25):
Just be patient.
I know you're afraid thatthis means you might not make
your dream, but you know what?
Tough times buildresilience, build strength.
You do not build strength resilience.
Sitting on a beach in Thailand,you don't build the real strength
(32:45):
just training over and over again.
The real strength, the real resilience,comes from the hard times and not just
comes from the whole time, but comingfrom building the belief that you can
make it through and overcoming thehard times and coming out the other
side and seeing who you really are.
(33:07):
So this stage is all about.
Building a raft, patience, trust, belief,
hanging on and protecting the dream,
enhancing the possibility of who you are
(33:35):
because
this is a time.
You need to build strength.
This is a time that may beboring in your athletic career.
This may be, it's, it's staying afloat.
You're just staying afloat in the inbetween and physically it's not as active.
(34:04):
So one of the ways, if you can't.
Like do the big workout.
One of the things you can do iswork on all the other things.
Work on all the other things,
and you may be surprised whoyou come up the other side.
(34:26):
It's like the athlete I've beentalking about in this episode,
it's like
the feel of who they are.
Is so different than when I first met them
(34:48):
and where I know they're going,
you know, when they look back,
they're gonna epitomize this, thisquote that, the irony of life.
Is, it must be lived in forward,
(35:09):
but it can only be understoodwhen you look back.
So stay afloat, hang on,
because pretty soon, pretty soonyou're gonna be back to what you love.
(35:33):
You're gonna be.
Running through the forest,
smelling the, the smells of the forest,feeling the wind, hearing the sounds,
(35:53):
that's where you're going.
Just stay afloat.
Thank you for joining me for anotherepisode of Conversations with Kim and
stay afloat in the InBetween.
(36:15):
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Conversations with Kimen.
Please remember to follow andlike this podcast on Instagram,
Spotify, apple Podcast, Pod Beanor wherever you find this episode.
Please share this podcast withanyone you feel would be inspired
and benefit from this content.
. Conversations with Kimen is aboutinspiration, life lessons, and wisdom.
Your host, Kimen Petersen shareshis stories to inspire you to live
a more soulful and illuminated life.
The topics covered in this podcastare as personal opinions inspired by
life, experience, and conversationsshared with amazing people.
Kimen hopes to encourage you tobe guided by life in the flow.
(00:23):
So the whole journey is moremanageable and joyful and fulfilling.
Staying afloat in the in-between.
It's interesting, I, I've beenthinking about this 'cause I have
a few athletes have been through,um, it's pretty tough times.
(00:47):
Injury recovery.
Injury recovery cycles.
And I was thinking aboutone particular athlete.
And how they've been throughthis whole process and it's
gone on for quite a while.
And they're sitting in this spacewhere they're recovered from the
(01:08):
injury and they're slowly, um,working on adapting their body,
um, for the upcoming coming load.
But, you know, nobody really talksabout the time in between, right.
Like the time between the, theinjury, the recovery, and the injury.
(01:30):
And then there's a space.
Well, body needs time to adapt.
Um, mind, soul, heart needs time to adaptfor the upcoming load because if you
go back too fast, it could not be good.
Right?
(01:51):
And I was just thinking about this person.
'cause like
how much, you know, how much patiencedoes it take to sit in this place
where you're no longer injured
but you're not ready to likedo the really hard work?
(02:13):
And how much maturity, intellect, um.
Patience does it take to hold backand let your body get ready to
go back into the kind of work ittakes to be incredible athlete.
(02:39):
So I was chatting with thisathlete and I hope one day when
everything's in the rear view mirror.
Um, they'll be a guest onmy, on my podcast so you
can get to know this person.
Um,
I've talked about 'em a lot in episodes.
Um, they inspire me like youwouldn't believe, and I'm sure that
(03:01):
some of the people listening arevery inspired by this human being.
And if you told this athlete this,they would probably just brush
it off and go, like, you know,I'm just doing what I'm doing.
But, you know, that's, that'show inspiring people are.
They're not going out tryingto be inspiring, they just are.
(03:22):
Yeah.
You can't do inspiring it.
It is not a thing you can do.
It's only a thing you can be.
So it, uh, I see this athlete prettymuch every week and I was like, last
week they came up with a great idea.
I'm like, oh, what's the idea this week?
And they're like, well, I don't know.
I'm not sure.
(03:42):
And we started chatting and then I broughtup this idea that I've been thinking about
them, um, that they're in this phase.
That's, you know,
you're kinda living in this space where
a lot of what's happened,your body's recovered from,
(04:04):
and now there's gonna besome time before your body's.
Ready to go out and do thatreally, really hard work.
And how, as an athlete, like as a verycompetitive human being, how do you,
how do, like, not only how do you getthrough like the, the initial thing, like
(04:27):
initially there's, there's a problem.
And how it typically works.
There's something come, comes up andit's a typically a sudden onset thing,
or it's a relatively sudden onset,or it starts with an aggravation,
which suddenly gets really bad.
And then there's, there's,there's a kind of a time delay.
(04:47):
Um, there's this incredible,uh, sports MD in in town who I
don't know how she does it, she.
We'll make time for people when, whenthey need, like, they don't have to
wait an extended period of time, andshe's able to, um, somehow to get
imaging a little faster, especiallyfor these incredible athletes.
(05:10):
So we can know, we can either havea rule out and know there's nothing
seriously wrong or we can have aconfirmation there's a problem, and
so, so that we can come up with a plan.
Like, what do we need to do in orderto maximize recovery, in order to
minimize the, the time away from sport?
(05:33):
And she's really great at like lookinginto all the underlying things to see
what could be going on and connecting,connecting athletes with amazing
resources, like amazing manual therapists.
Um, yeah,
so.
I thought we'd just go, kindof go through the stages.
(05:54):
We'll start with the initial, and itseems like initially when an athlete,
something comes up that's significant.
Like if you ever worked withreally incredible athletes
working at a high level, you'llnotice that every, like, there's.
Consistently, notconstantly, but consistently.
(06:15):
There's gonna be things that getaggravated, and that's what I'm working on
in my practice is something's aggravated.
We, we try to calm it down.
We try to see kind of like look backand see what, what is aggravated.
I. And typically the area that'saggravated is not probably
where the problem's coming from.
Um, a lot of times it's somethingelse is the issue, which, and
(06:39):
that's a result of the issue.
Uh, one of, one of my, uh, clinicsupervisors when I was in school
used to say, don't chase the pain.
Like, definitely address the areathat the, the person has pain.
But then really think aboutclinically, think about like,
okay, so if this area is tight.
Um, if it's a ma, uh, like a moreminor, a secondary muscle, like what is
(07:04):
the primary mover, uh, of that actionthat's, that that muscle's aggravated
and let's go back there and see if,like, is that one, it's that the, where
the problem's coming so far, we couldtreat the problem from the source,
not from the, the resulting symptom.
So typically, we'll, I'llbe working with an athlete.
(07:28):
And something will come up.
And it's interesting with significantinjuries, they come up one of two ways.
They start with an aggravation that gets,uh, keeps on getting worse until the
point where, um, move them up to SportsMD and the Sports MD is going to assess
them and probably see if they can getsome imaging and then they're gonna either
(07:53):
confirm there's an issue or rule it out.
Now in this situation, um, it, for thispodcast we're gonna talk about when
there's a confirmation and it's, youknow, it's really tough for an athlete
'cause these, these human beings are sodriven and working so hard and, you know,
(08:19):
sometimes on the edge of injury, right?
And remember.
Uh, uh, this is one of the things I alwayslike to clarify at this point is that they
used to think that injury was a result ofoverwork, like working too hard, too much.
Like the body could only handle so much.
(08:39):
And see, I don't believe that.
I think the body isincredibly strong, resilient.
It's built and designed to heal itself.
It can and will,
but you have to match.
Your recovery with your load, and thisis what they understand now, is that
injury is not a result of overwork, it'sa result of undercover and undercover.
(09:05):
Um, is a broad spectrum, right?
Um, recovery is a broad spectrum.
Spectrum.
First off, there's nutrition, liketaking enough nutrition, taking at
the right intervals, fueling for thehard stuff and what to eat after.
And I know there's, there's thisamazing, uh, uh, in Vancouver sports
(09:27):
dietician and I know she works.
She works remotely too.
Her name's Sandra Kim Kilmartin.
Um, you can find her at NoSweat Nutrition on Instagram.
Um.
Man, there's a multitudeof people that see her.
Um, she's, she could really guide youif you're, if you're working towards
(09:47):
athletics, um, in what, what to eat,um, and when to eat and how much.
'cause there's this incredibly, uh,misguided conception that like the
lighter you are, the faster you are.
So that's one aspect.
Another aspect of courseis getting enough sleep.
(10:09):
Sleep is vitally important.
Um,
what can we say so important,um, mitigating stress.
Mitigating stress.
High, high cortisol levels, highstress levels, like incredible
athletes are always gonna be runningat some kind of a high stress level.
But then you have to findways to mitigate that.
(10:32):
Now how can you do that?
Like we talk about, um, workingwith mental performance,
working with mental health, uh.
Y you know, even like a 30 minutewarm bath will lower cortisol levels.
Uh, massage therapylowers cortisol levels.
The idea of finding ways to enhancecalm, making sure you're getting
(10:56):
enough sleep and sleep is interesting.
It's, it is gotta be consistent.
The same, same like going to bed at thesame time, getting up at the same time
in the morning, that kind of thing.
Um.
Incorporating recovery days, workingwith a, a strength and conditioning
person to make sure that your body'sresilient and strong recovery comes in it.
(11:21):
It's a huge spectrum.
So this is one of the most importantthings, especially if you're starting
to find a cycle of injury, is likelooking at all those pieces of the
puzzle and bringing them together.
So, like I said, um.
Res injury is not a result ofoverwork, it's a result of undercover.
(11:46):
And that brings the powerback into your hands.
So it takes away the fear.
'cause the body is builtand designed to heal itself.
It can in a will.
So a lot of times the athletes willcome in, um, right after they get
the word that it's a confirmationof, say, a bone injury and.
(12:08):
Bone injuries at the, atleast, at the very least.
And not to minimize how tough it is.
'cause anytime you have a breakin training, like a non, like a,
a non-planned break in training,it, it's gonna, it's gonna
throw, throw things off a bit.
But not only that, when you're,when you're that committed and
(12:31):
when it happens coming intosomething important, it's hard.
Now, bone injuries can take anywherefrom six to eight weeks to recover
depending on the bone injury.
Sometimes like a fal uh, neckstress fracture can take more, but
at least when it's a bone injury,we know there's a finite time for,
(12:52):
for, um, recovery, uh, and rebuild.
And the, the incredible thing about thehuman body is typically it, it will.
There's a, there's thing called Wolf'slaw that the body lays down, like,
um, more bone on areas of stress.
So I imagine same with recovery.
(13:12):
When it, when it repairs, it probablyrepairs it stronger than it was
before, which is a good thing to know.
'cause like people get reallyafraid when they have bone injuries.
But getting back to it, like thestage one of this whole process,
um.
I can't tell you how many people I'vebeen with, and they've just broken
(13:33):
down understanding that what's goingon, that they have this injury, that
it's going to impact their races andtheir, their training, um, their,
if they're on a team, their play,
and it's incredible.
There's some, some amazingly.
(13:58):
Open hard on your sleeves.
Athletes that will just break down.
And I really try to hold space and Ilet them know that, um, I know I can't
take away your pain, but I can make sureyou don't feel alone, that you're know
you're not alone through this process.
Let them know how much I care,
(14:20):
really give them space.
Some of them will say, you know,I'm not a crier, and I'm like, this
is the safest place in the world.
You need to let it out here.
So stage one is the graving process,and then I have these other incredible,
really, really tough athleteslike that will not, probably, will
never break down in my presence.
And that's fine.
(14:41):
So I always tell them, Hey, listen,okay, I, I, I know you're strong.
I know you're not gonna letthis out here, and that's okay.
But go home, turn on the music, hop in theshower, get really angry and cry it out.
Because you really, you have to feelwhat stage one is the grieving process.
You, when, when this kind of thinghappens, you have to feel what you're
(15:04):
feel feeling when you're feeling it.
You have to feel it.
You have to let it out.
The only way through is through, and Iknow that I went through times where.
I was so afraid to allow myself to feelbecause I felt like if I turned that
(15:26):
tap on, there was no way I would eversh it would, I could ever shut it off.
I could stop if I started letting it out.
It would be, it would, it wouldbe all encompassing and it would,
yeah, there's no way I could stop.
So I was told at that point itsaid like, you can actually,
when you're grieving, um.
(15:48):
When you have a safe moment, you can treatit like a valve, like imagine a little
valve and you can crack it open and leta little bit out, like let some pressure
off and then shut it when you need to.
And if you, you have a really safemoment when you're all alone, you can
crack it wide open and then you can shyou can, you can slowly shut it again.
You just let off the pressure.
Let off the pressure.
'cause the truth is, in the grievingprocess, there is a finite amount
(16:12):
of grief that's gonna come out.
Like you're gonna feel what you feel.
And you're gonna, if you let it out andyou don't push it down and you don't
hold it back, eventually you're gonnafeel your way all the way through it.
And that's the truth.
You have to feel your waycompletely through it.
And that might mean like, Idon't recommend you, I isolate.
(16:36):
'cause that's tough.
Like when you're goingthrough a tough time.
If you were seeing me, I wouldsay lean into your friend.
Lean your into your friends andthey're like, well, you know,
I don't wanna bother them.
I'm like, oh my gosh.
You know?
Okay.
So I'm gonna have to have thisconversation with you too.
Think about how you feelwhen a friend leans into you.
(16:58):
Like when you get to really support afriend, how does that make you feel?
Yeah, pretty good, right?
Like really, really supporting a friendin a tough time and really letting them
know how much you care who they arefor you, and that you're gonna be there
and they're not alone and you care.
That feels good, doesn't it?
And they're like, yeah, yeah.
(17:19):
Don't rip your friends off.
That people want to contribute whenyou're going through the grieving process.
It's okay to isolate a bit if you have to.
Maybe that's part of your routine.
Maybe you need to rest and isolatea little bit, but then start.
Leaning into your friends,
and that was what this athlete was saying.
(17:41):
It's like, yeah, definitely.
I really needed to feel whatI was feeling like and feel
my way all the way through it.
Another one of my athletes recentlyis going through something and
it's not diagnosed yet, but itdid, uh, come up right before the
two major races of their season.
So the, and the most, two andmost important races of the year.
(18:05):
Um, I can't even tell you how awfulthat is, like how tough that would be.
I don't know how I would reconcile that.
But this brings, brings in stagetwo and stage two is when you
come to a place of acceptance.
And acceptance is not settlingfor like, well, there's nothing I
(18:28):
can do, so I need to accept this.
No acceptance is accepting.
Everything that's going on forall that it is and all that.
It's not like come to anacceptance that this season is
over because of this injury.
I'm not going to compete this season.
And it's interesting, it's likecoming up, like when you're coming
(18:52):
up towards acceptance, it's so hard.
Like it, it feels like acceptanceis so hard and you're moving
your way towards it and like.
Working through it in your head,
it's, it's like the approach toacceptance is the hardest part.
Acceptance in itself happens in a snapwhen you actually accept where you are.
(19:18):
What's, and that's,
and that's stage two isfinding acceptance right
now.
Once you've grieved, once you'vefound acceptance, uh, this athlete
was like, she just nailed it, right?
(19:38):
She just nailed this, this human being,okay, let me just put it this way.
Imagine that you are, you.
There's something you absolutelylove, like you absolutely love in
this life, and you're pursuing bigthings and dreams, and then suddenly
(19:59):
injury takes it away from you.
And imagine how you'd feel.
And yet consciously, if you, ifyou focus on, if you really focus
on allowing yourself to feel whatyou feel around that, and you feel
your way through it, and then youcome to a place of acceptance.
(20:23):
Now, this athlete, I don't believe theymissed a single workout, even though.
This athlete could notparticipate in what they loved.
Just imagine this.
You show up for people
even though you can't, even thoughsomething's happened to your
(20:45):
body, you show up for all yourfriends, for all your teammates.
Like I also have a rugby player.
Same thing.
Shows up.
Just shows up, and thisis what the athlete said.
It's like the next stage of this like.
As you, you're, you're on right now.
You're on recovery, right?
You may or may not be cross training.
(21:08):
Um, maybe you're doing like physioexercises, you're getting treatment and
such, but you show up and then she saidthis, this, this stage, like grieving
is one, stage two is acceptance, andstage three is called staying connected.
(21:30):
Staying connected to your dream,staying connected to your friends,
staying connected to your team, staying.
Just staying connected.
Even if you can'tparticipate, show up for them.
Show up with them.
Show them who you are, you know?
(21:51):
And now, now you're inthe in-between, right?
Yeah, maybe you're coming to the pointwhere say the six to eight weeks, maybe 12
weeks is up and now you can start walkin.
Now, can you imagine being this incredibleathlete who could just like, who can
(22:12):
crush like an incredible speed on arace and now you have to slow right
down to almost nothing and you, youget to run for a little bit and then
walk, but it's kind of my kind of a jog.
And how humbling that could be and howdifficult it could be to do the work
(22:34):
now, because now the work is not pushing.
Now the work is not like going hardand like showing what you're capable
of and pushing past, like mental,emotional and physical limits.
I guess it is kind of pushingpast but in a different way.
Pushing back and hold,uh, pushing, pushing past.
(22:56):
In the holding back and not doing toomuch and not overdoing it, and following
the plan that was laid out by the physio.
Following it to the letter, understandingthat what you're doing now is like
walk around programs they like.
People used to think they were aboutcardio, but actually they, they're about
(23:17):
progressively loading the tissues likethe joints, bones, muscles, tendons.
Ligaments of the body to slowly adaptto returning to the previous load.
Now, I don't know about you 'causelike in some areas of my life I'm
(23:37):
pretty competitive and I feel likethis would be really hard to hold back.
But this is when you need to stay afloatbecause now you're in the in-between.
And the in-between phase can bepretty long, or at least it can feel
long because you know, it's like.
You can.
You can see you're on the climband you can see that summit.
(24:02):
You can see where you're going,but you can't rush there.
Now.
Now, now you'll lean into patience.
And patience for a competitivehuman being is probably one of
the hardest things in the world.
I mean.
Back.
Um, when I was, um, in my twenties, Iwas so impatient because like I was so
(24:26):
far from where I wanted to be in life andlike mentally, physically, emotionally.
I was so far from where I wanted to be inlife, where, where I hoped I could be one
and I just wanted to get there and it wasso like anxiety inducing and I actually.
(24:49):
Was in like one of these metaphysicalbookstores one day, and I looked on the
counter and they were selling these,these smooth stones with words cut in.
And I saw patience and I'mlike, oh my God, grab that.
Paid for it.
And it was in my pocket everywhereI went, and every time I felt
anxious, I'd rub the stone patience.
(25:16):
Patience is one of the most importantthings in the world, in the in-between.
I mean, nothing, nothing in thislifetime is going to get you through
the in-between, like patients will.
And like I said, I definitely re,I recommend it either put a poster
with PO patients on your wall,write it on your hand, put it on
(25:37):
your screensaver, on your phone.
If you can find a stonewith it, cut into it.
Keep it in your pocket.
Patience is going to pay offnot just through the in-between,
but in your whole life.
The other thing to hold on is like I'dsay these, these are the things you build.
(25:58):
So to make it through the InBetween,from recovered from injury to
the ability to go back to theworkouts, to like the hard work.
You need to build a raft and yourraft is going to consist of patience,
is gonna be one, one of the piecesof that raft, like understanding
(26:23):
that you are going to get there.
Now the other one you really need to get,write, really need to put down, and this
is another one you could put as a poster.
You could write it on your hand.
You could get a stone with trust.
You need to trust that the body isbuilt and designed to heal itself.
(26:44):
It can and it will.
It's resilient.
It's strong.
You need to trust that just becausesomething happened yesterday is
not going to happen again tomorrow.
On especially because like theperson you were, the athlete you
were, that led up to that incident.
(27:07):
You're not that person anymore.
You're not that athlete anymore.
You've learned through this process,you've probably enhanced your, your,
your strength and conditioning, your,your nutrition, your mental, physical
and emotional, your rest, your recovery.
You've probably, you've probablycha you've probably changed.
(27:27):
You're not the same athlete.
Not only that, if it's a boneinjury, especially your body's gonna
lay down extra bone in that area.
I, I, I think it's pretty rare that like,it, it can happen, but it's fairly rare
that you get the same injury in this exactsame place because your body is really
intelligent and it actually builds up the,builds up the tissue in that area to make
(27:50):
it more strong, make more real resilient.
And if you've been working withmanual therapy and incredible people.
They've been giving youexercises and things you can do.
This is the thing.
Patience is one part of your raft.
Trust is another part of the raft
(28:11):
and belief.
I think belief is a verybig part of the raft.
Honestly, I truly believe that you, youdidn't get this far to only get this far.
You know what I mean?
You didn't have a desire like any, anyonewho's an athlete, who, who does big
(28:33):
things, who's moving in a big directionlike this, it didn't happen by chance.
This is who you are.
This is your purpose.
This is why you are here.
This is not,
this is not a coincidencethat you made it this far.
And the truth is.
(28:56):
Everything that's happening isteaching us, is strengthening us.
Even, even the worst thingslike, like they say, have you
ever heard of a lotus flower?
Have you ever considered the fact thatone of the most beautiful flowers on
this planet will only bloom in a swampin muddy water by the light of the moon?
(29:21):
And if you could, and I don'twanna minimize that you're
going through tough times.
I don't wanna minimize that.
You have to feel it all andyou have to acknowledge it.
But also try to hold in the backof your mind and try to open your
eyes and keep, keep your eyes open.
What are the amazing things thathappened that probably wouldn't have
(29:43):
happened had you not had this incident?
Like what have you learned?
Who did you meet in this moment?
What did you create?
There's a volleyball player I work withand had a significant injury and ended up
going back to school during this injury.
And honestly, they probably wouldn'thave done that if it wasn't for that.
(30:05):
And they're moving in a direction ofa life that's gonna be incredible and
it's gonna help other human beings.
I'm not minimizing what you're goingthrough or what you've been through.
I'm just saying thateven the toughest things.
Have beauty and in my life, one ofmy favorite quotes is I owe every
(30:26):
bit of my life, every bit of mylight, L-I-G-H-T to all the darkness.
Had I not gone through all the stuff I'vegone through, I would not be who I am.
And when I have an athlete that comesin who's breaking down and hurting, I
recognize them because I've been through,I, I know what it feels like to hurt.
(30:51):
And my deepest desire is to be ofservice in that moment and to hold space.
And like I've learned over the years,I know I can't take your pain away, but
you know what I can do is make for damnsure that you know that you're not alone.
And you know that I carebecause I care so deeply.
Not in spite of what I've been through,but because of what I've been through.
(31:18):
Another part of your rest.
Uh, of your raft is protect your dream.
Nothing inherently means anythingunless you give it meaning.
And why would you give meaning a meaning?
Why would you give a meaning that doesn'twork or diminishes your possibility?
(31:43):
That's a good thought, eh.
You have to battle with theinner critic on this one.
You have to encourage, I I, my lastepisode I released the other day
was building the inner advocate.
Yeah.
(32:04):
And letting go of the inner critic.
This is a time that you can build.
This is a time you canbe your own cheerleader.
In the quiet moments when you're notsurrounded by people, you can, you
can have a little chat with yourself.
I know this is tough.
I know this is hard.
I know you wanna befurther, but just trust.
(32:25):
Just be patient.
I know you're afraid thatthis means you might not make
your dream, but you know what?
Tough times buildresilience, build strength.
You do not build strength resilience.
Sitting on a beach in Thailand,you don't build the real strength
(32:45):
just training over and over again.
The real strength, the real resilience,comes from the hard times and not just
comes from the whole time, but comingfrom building the belief that you can
make it through and overcoming thehard times and coming out the other
side and seeing who you really are.
(33:07):
So this stage is all about.
Building a raft, patience, trust, belief,
hanging on and protecting the dream,
enhancing the possibility of who you are
(33:35):
because
this is a time.
You need to build strength.
This is a time that may beboring in your athletic career.
This may be, it's, it's staying afloat.
You're just staying afloat in the inbetween and physically it's not as active.
(34:04):
So one of the ways, if you can't.
Like do the big workout.
One of the things you can do iswork on all the other things.
Work on all the other things,
and you may be surprised whoyou come up the other side.
(34:26):
It's like the athlete I've beentalking about in this episode,
it's like
the feel of who they are.
Is so different than when I first met them
(34:48):
and where I know they're going,
you know, when they look back,
they're gonna epitomize this, thisquote that, the irony of life.
Is, it must be lived in forward,
(35:09):
but it can only be understoodwhen you look back.
So stay afloat, hang on,
because pretty soon, pretty soonyou're gonna be back to what you love.
(35:33):
You're gonna be.
Running through the forest,
smelling the, the smells of the forest,feeling the wind, hearing the sounds,
(35:53):
that's where you're going.
Just stay afloat.
Thank you for joining me for anotherepisode of Conversations with Kim and
stay afloat in the InBetween.
(36:15):
Thank you for listening to thisepisode of Conversations with Kimen.
Please remember to follow andlike this podcast on Instagram,
Spotify, apple Podcast, Pod Beanor wherever you find this episode.
Please share this podcast withanyone you feel would be inspired
and benefit from this content.
Popular Podcasts
Cold Case Files: Miami
Joyce Sapp, 76; Bryan Herrera, 16; and Laurance Webb, 32—three Miami residents whose lives were stolen in brutal, unsolved homicides. Cold Case Files: Miami follows award‑winning radio host and City of Miami Police reserve officer Enrique Santos as he partners with the department’s Cold Case Homicide Unit, determined family members, and the advocates who spend their lives fighting for justice for the victims who can no longer fight for themselves.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.