March 13, 2024 • 77 mins
I am so excited for you to meet Henry M. Pittman. Henry is a licensed therapist and counsellor. Henry assisted in my Somatic Experiencing (SE) three-year training. The training was all online except for the last level, so we met in person last year in Atlanta. Henry is passionate about his work; he is wise, knowledgeable and a great storyteller. Oh, and funny! In this episode, we talk about a lot of things! He explains how to do Mardi Gras properly. He shares his journey and how he realized when he was in an abusive relationship, and he gives excellent advice for new therapists. Listen to the end as he does this jazzy trombone thing; I think it's called scat. It's awesome.
Bio: Henry M. Pittman is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist, Licensed Professional Counselor, Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor, and Acupuncture Detoxification Specialist licensed by the State of Texas Medical Board. Nationally, he holds the designation of National Certified Counselor (NCC), Master Addiction Counselor (MAC), and Substance Abuse Professional (SAP). Clinically, he is a Certified Anger Resolution Therapist, Certified EMDR Therapist Candidate, Certified Parent Coordinator, and Certified Somatic Experience Practitioner. Henry's website
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, everyone.
This is Patricia, your Chinese auntie.
I have a request.
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review it and share your favoriteepisodes with your friends.
Tell your friends Iappreciate you so much.
. Welcome to Conversations WithYour Chinese Auntie Podcast.
(00:33):
And so the thing is, they're,they're throwing them to the crowd.
So you have to be interactive,because if not, you would get
slapped in the face with a moon pieor some bees because you're looking
over here and stuff is coming.
It is.
And so my lady's with me, so she donegot to get in the head with some bees.
And I came in and I caught somebees right before it hit her.
(00:59):
And I was excited.
Just because it was black,um, in the black community.
We're going to make a difference.
We're going to make a change.
Yeah!
There was dope on campus.
There was dope dealsgoing down transactions.
(01:20):
I am so excited for you to meet Henry M.
Pittman.
Henry is a licensedtherapist and counselor.
He assisted in my SomaticExperiencing SE three year training.
The training was all done onlineexcept for the last level.
So we met in person last year in Atlanta.
(01:40):
Henry is passionate about his work.
He is wise, knowledgeable,and a great storyteller.
And he's so funny.
In this episode, we talkabout a lot of things.
He explains how to do Mardi Gras properly.
Basically, you need to bringa bag and pay attention.
If not, you will get hit by thethings they throw from the floats.
(02:00):
He shares his journey and how he realizedwhen he was in an abusive relationship.
He also gives excellentadvice for new therapists.
Here is my conversation withHenry, listen to the end as he
does this jazzy trombone thing.
I think it's called scat.
It's awesome.
(02:27):
Hello, Henry.
What's up, Patricia?
What's up?
I've missed you.
Oh, I know.
I am well.
I said, I am well.
I've been.
On the go ever since, what's that,February 4th, so traveling from Houston,
(02:52):
Texas to Orlando, Florida, to Orlando,Florida, to Miami, Florida, to be on
a cruise with me and my lady for fourdays in the Bahamas, and then to spend a
day and a half, so to speak, in Mobile,Alabama, on the way back, which is my
hometown for Mardi Gras, because thatwasn't, it wasn't a plan to start.
(03:17):
I didn't realize when we was coming back,I looked at the schedule, wait a minute, I
think Mardi Gras is going on this weekend.
Sure enough, sure enough of what it did.
So saw family, did the parade.
She was excited because thatwas her first Mardi Gras.
She's from Dayton, Ohio, so she'snever been to Mardi Gras and me
(03:41):
educating her on how to do Mardi Gras.
Mardi Gras.
She's like, I've been to parades.
I'm like, sweetie, you need a bag.
You need to put stuff in.
She said, what you mean?
I said, it's very interactive.
Please tell us how to do it.
I know nothing about it.
Okay.
Okay.
(04:02):
I'll begin.
I'm going to begin with just Mobile,Alabama itself, because Mobile
started Mardi Gras in the 1800s.
And many times it throws peopleoff to hear Mobile, Alabama as the
originators of Mardi Gras becausepeople know about New Orleans.
I don't know.
Uh, some people pronounceit now, so in New Orleans,
(04:23):
Louisiana, it's a tourist city.
So it's, it's very popular, butbecause it's popular doesn't
mean that it's originated.
Well, Bill is the originator, it's nextdoor neighbor, or a couple of states over.
And so.
In mobile, I will say doing how to doMardi Gras is that you come with a bag
(04:46):
because it's not just a parade of floatsand dancers and high school bands and
performances is that on the floats,they're throwing items out to the crowd.
They're throwing candy.
Bubble gum, of course, bees, people, ofcourse, people know a lot about the bees,
(05:06):
but it's more than just bees, bees, moonpie, chocolate cakes, um, um, stuffed
animals, oolong goose, ramen noodles.
Okay, no, wait, let's justgo back to chocolate cake.
What do you mean that'snot chocolate cake?
Like in a container, like a piece?
(05:27):
No, they're, they'repackaged, they come in a box.
Oh.
And so just miniature.
Cakes that they are throwing out orsometimes they would throw a whole bag.
And so the thing is, they're,they're throwing them to the crowd.
So you have to be interactivebecause if not, you would get
slapped in the face with a moon pieor some bees because you're looking
(05:49):
over here and stuff is coming.
It is.
And so my lady is with me.
So she done got hit inthe head with some bees.
And I've came in and I caughtsome bees right before it hit her.
And then I put them on myself.
It is such a blast.
It is such a blast.
So it's not that you're just sittingthere looking at the floats and just
(06:12):
waving how you would see a routine parade.
And Oh, that's nice.
No, no, no.
You see the bands, the bandsin the South, they dance.
So they're dancing and planning andgrooving and another float comes.
And you hear peoplesaying, don't leave me.
It's a Mardi Gras that theyhave and stuff animals.
(06:35):
How many stuff animals I get?
I got three.
Did I get three?
Wow.
We got a ton of stuff just for one day.
We went for that morning and then thatevening and each parade is different.
Each parade has a different theme to it.
They're not the same.
Okay, when you say each parade, howmany parades are there in a day?
(07:00):
That day was five, six, seven.
Seven parades.
There's a schedule that tells youfrom 12 o'clock to that evening.
They tell you where theparades are going to be at.
Most of the parades are downtown Mobile.
Most of them.
There's a few that arein different locations.
(07:24):
They had their own map andthey had their own route.
And so what we used to do growing up,we will start at the 12 o'clock, go to
the parades, get in the car, drive overto the next parade when that starts
at three o'clock, then drive back todowntown for the 5 45 dragon parade.
Oh, which is a Saturday.
(07:44):
It was the mystics of time.
They had the dragon parade.
They got three longfloats that are dragons.
And people on top, you know, throwingstuff from, and so it's just a full day
and you don't have to go to all of them.
Of course you don't have to,but nonetheless, it's just a
hell of a day going from here,then to here, then to here.
(08:06):
And of course the food, you know,it's carnival like food that's
there, chicken on the stick.
I want a nice fried chicken on the stick,a corsage on the stick, a funnel cake.
Ain't nothing like a funnelcake, a true funnel cake.
And I'm not talking aboutone of those pre made books.
Can we use profanity?
I'm sorry.
Well, I'll prefer you don't.
(08:28):
Then if I have to change it to explicit.
Right.
So, so she gets some unfavorable,unfavorable on a cake.
Okay.
I don't know what a photo cake explain.
I'm going to have to Google it afterthis, you know, but, and you have
(08:48):
to come on down here to the stage.
Yes.
I'm going to have to come and visit you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hospitality.
It is welcome.
So a funnel cake.
It's pretty much a pancake likebatter that is made in oil is fried.
(09:08):
And so they take the batterand they actually will loop and
then make these designs with it.
Nothing, no particular order.
They become all crisscross.
So you have a cake that is crispyon the outside cause it's fried,
but then when you crunch intoit, bite into it, it's also soft
and it has powdered sugar on top.
And you can have other toppingssuch as strawberry, peaches.
(09:33):
On top as well.
Some places they have them premade, so they're not fresh.
They'll take them like an egg orwaffle, these farmer cakes and.
Put them into an oven, dispenser,and then it comes out warm.
No, that's a travesty.
Don't do that with cakes.
(09:53):
Don't do that.
It's fresh.
Fresh.
Please tell us a bit about yourself.
I am from Mobile, Alabama.
And I'm the only child of Henry PittmanJr, excuse me, which was my dad.
(10:23):
And some people think thatI'm a junior because I'm named
after my dad, but I'm Henry M.
Pittman.
My father's Henry Pittman Jr.
because my granddad is Henry Pittman Sr.
And my mom did not wantto meet to be a third.
So,
so she told my dad, givethat boy a middle name.
(10:45):
So, yeah, which is Martez,Henry Martez Pittman.
And my, and my mother is EvelynJoyce Jenkins, her maiden name.
So it's the Jenkins and thePittmans and both of their origins
is in Mississippi, actually.
(11:09):
I said, born in Mobile, Alabama,Pritchett area, and parents were
married in 71, I was born in 76.
And I said, the only child betweenthem, that my father has five sisters.
So six of them, he has five sisters.
And then my mom has three other siblings.
That's four total.
(11:29):
And each one is very distinct.
So when I talk about my momo and popo,that's my father's side of the family.
That's the Pitmans.
When you hear me talk aboutgrandmother, granddad.
That's the Jenkins side of the family.
(11:50):
A difference in that is that theJenkins side of the family are educated.
Their school was very important.
That was the key.
My grandfather Worked on the railroad.
He was also in the Navy.
Both of my grandfathers was, he wasin the Navy, worked on the railroad.
(12:12):
My grandmother could have been a teacher.
She could have worked.
She chose not to.
And they had kids later inlife than earlier, around 40s.
And so Granddad made sure that all hiskids, his son and three girls, And my
mother being the youngest was educated,even despite what the church said,
(12:37):
per se, which was originally they wereBaptist and then they transitioned
to becoming Jehovah Witnesses.
And in the Jehovah Witness faith,the focus is on ministry, ministering
God's word, Jesus love and so forth.
And so education wasn't,that wasn't a primary.
My grandfather begged thedifferent because you can love
(12:58):
the Lord and get an education.
So my uncle is a educator, master'sdegree, my aunt Fannie, educator,
master's degree, my dad, bachelors,clothing designer, and my mother,
bachelors, two bachelors, bachelorsin biology and bachelors of nursing.
(13:19):
Cause she's a nurse,registered nurse and LVM.
And so, and all of them are still alive.
Mom just celebrated 50years of nursing last year.
We did.
Wow.
And yes, yes, a sense of that Iwas supposed to be, quote unquote,
(13:40):
the doctor coming into the family.
No pressure.
Right, right.
Dr.
Mental Health.
And my mom really wantedto be a nurse practitioner.
She said, yeah, at the end of thatparents marriage did not allow to
(14:01):
happen as she wanted it to happen.
So my parents, so that's theJenkins, Snapshot Jenkins.
More, more pawpaw, pitless, education,not so, because on the Pitman side,
I'm the first, I'm a first of a lot.
(14:21):
So as far as first one, high school,um, college, um, first generation
college on the Pitman side, althoughcompleted high school, also first
Pitman, no kids in high school.
That's also the first.
Because that's a theme that the Pittmanshad, as far as bearing children younger,
(14:48):
that my father was a chemical engineer.
He did some college.
And mobile that he endedup going to the air force.
He chose to go to the air forcebecause it was during the Vietnam war.
So he chose to go military inthe air force, because if he says
(15:11):
that he's fighting, he's goingto be dropping bombs with people.
He ain't going to be a suckerand go hand in hand combat.
So he went to the air force.
He was a firefighter.
He was stationed in Vietnam and came back.
And so he worked here in Easton, in TexasCity, was a chemical plant called Amoco.
(15:34):
And that's what my dad wasthere most of his time.
His position, chemical,chemical engineer operator.
As the years gone by and dadgot older, the company left.
From until that, my mother keptencouraging my dad, go to school,
Henry, go to school, go to school.
(15:54):
Because when it happenedthat I see got older.
And different jobs, why he could,why he had the knowledge of it.
He didn't have the paper of it.
And those were setbacksfor him later on in life.
And some of that, he bucked it.
They refused to do they want to do that.
Ain't no need for me to go to school.
The fact is that I know all that in a way.
(16:16):
True dad, but you, you need the paperto show them that, and so this is
love, hate relationship with education.
So while my father's very proud of me,of all it is that I have accomplished and
so forth and done, during the process, itwasn't so much, it was, okay, nice son,
(16:40):
how you going to school for dentists?
Nice son.
But then later on, as an adult, myfather said, I am just so proud of you.
You've done way more thanany Pittman has done.
You know, you surpassed me.
And he said, I surpassed my dad.
He said, that's the wayit is supposed to be.
And one that does thenext, the next, the next.
(17:01):
And so that was.
Very heartfelt to hear frommy dad, but that's just giving
you the dynamics of the Jenkins
so education is Set in my DNA
Is it common to be an onlychild When you were growing up,
(17:28):
I'm sitting here to go,I want to answer that.
Actually wasn't uncommon becauseit's just is so it just is.
I'm I'm the old child and I neverhad a problem being the old child.
I never yearned for a sibling thatthat never was the case for me.
(17:50):
I can't tell you myself.
I don't know.
That's because the Gemini in me and histwin, so I was, so I was always creative
and stuff and I'm a social butterflyand I will have and I have friends and
so that was an issue that, that I agreeit is uncommon to have just one child
(18:15):
because routinely you do have multiple.
Children, they said, my grandma,my mom, there's four of them and
my grandmother, there's 12 of them.
And so, yeah, say the grandparentsis five and I don't know, I do
not know my pitman's history.
(18:35):
They have not done, they'venot kept records like the
Jenkins have of who's who.
We can date all the way back to slaveryto my great grandmother, who's biracial,
white and black born into slavery.
So we can go all the way back.
Have photos, have all of that, thatleads us down to present day, but
(18:56):
not so, but nonetheless just withthem to as well, most of them had at
least two kids area, everybody hadto, um, I did have one that that's.
Legally, I'm the, I'm still theonly child of my mom and dad.
(19:20):
Yeah.
There's some others out there.
So I have a sister outthere and a brother as well.
And I'm saying he's in Philly.
So none of this is direct from my dad.
You know, it's like when peopledie, that's when stuff came out.
(19:41):
And that's what happened with me.
When my mom, my father'smom died, I was 15.
And a woman approached me and said, hi,I said, hi, he said, you remember me?
I said, no, she said, I used tohold you when you was a little,
no, she said, I'm your sister.
(20:04):
I said, okay, you wantto get something to eat?
And she said, yes.
And so we are walking andI'm walking dead to my mom.
She's right behind me andI'm walking dead to my mom.
And I said, do I got a sister?
And my mom looked,
(20:26):
go ask your dad.
So I went to my dad and he's onthe front row crying, you know, we
had a funeral, you know, crying.
I'm like, dad, dad, dad, dad.
Do I got a sister?
And he said, yes.
Yeah, you got a sister.
And when I turned around, she was gone.
Her name was Ritney.
She was gone.
And I remember that night, my parentsarguing at my grandparents house.
(20:53):
And I can't believe you're a dada da da da da da da da da da.
Well, I didn't know she wasgoing to approach him like that.
She's 18.
She was 18 at the time.
17, 18.
And I'm 15.
So she's older.
Because prior to my parents gettingmarried, there was this baby that
my mom kept seeing at the house.
(21:15):
And And she would alwaysinquire, Henry, who's this baby?
Who's this baby?
And the family has it as it was a cousin.
Well, actually that was my sister.
Cause if my mother knew this child wasmy dad, she would not have married him.
But my dad kept saying that it wasn't.
So she just married my dadcause she's born in 71.
(21:36):
Yeah, she's born in 71 and I'm in 76.
The reason why I know thatbecause later on, some documents
came to the house of my father'sdependents and it was 71, 76 and 80.
Hey, I know who the 76 is, who's the 71,who's the 80, who, who's, who's, yeah.
You are born with only child.
(22:01):
So listen, grew up as the onlychild, I had other siblings,
uh, out there and I met Rennie.
I was gonna say, do you havea relationship with her?
No, I do not.
And it's one of the thingsthat saddens me, it saddens
(22:22):
me because of this, secrets.
And parental influence.
So when I met Renny for the firsttime, that was when I was 15.
Then I met her again whenmy, when Pawpaw died.
And just so happens itwas my dad's birthday.
(22:45):
And after the funeral, we allwent out to eat afterwards.
It's, you know, the wholefamily, aunts, cousins.
And so my dad is at the head ofthe table and one of his sisters,
my aunt, had How about Henry'schildren Sit in, sit next to him?
(23:06):
So my father's here.
I'm here, Renee's here, and I'mlooking at my mother across the
way and she cutting my daddy.
She cut him sharply with him.
Eyes over there because itwas never introduced Mart.
Here's your sister, Rennie.
(23:27):
Rennie, this is your brother, Martez.
She knew of me, I didn't know of her.
But there was nothing formalthat was ever, ever said.
It was just, yeah, that's your sister.
Oh, oh, okay.
That's it.
Mom didn't say anything about it.
Dad didn't say anything else about it.
(23:51):
So it just, and so it wasn't said andshe will attempt to reach out and yet
because of the secrecy of it as a,as a kid, even coming as an adult,
well, I don't know what to do with it.
I don't, I don't, it was never encouragedfor me to have a relationship with her.
(24:17):
See, in my family, mydad was married twice.
All the males on my dad's line,as you go as far back to my great
grandfather, they were all married twice.
They all had two wives.
Yeah.
My mom used to call it the family'scurse because then her expectation
(24:39):
was the first marriage for mybrother would never work out.
You know, it was my uncle,my, all the dad side.
So my dad had a daughter with his firstwife and we knew nothing about it.
Until my grandfather's funeral, thefirst wife showed up with the daughter
(25:01):
and I, and I didn't know about it.
I was like nine, maybe.
And then my sister told mea few years later, she said,
do you remember this woman?
I'm like, no, right.
So she must be maybe 10 years olderthan me, but to this day, I'm like.
(25:25):
And in our family, in our cultureis very much based on shame, shame
that the marriage didn't work out,shame that he had a child and he
never kept in contact with the child.
And I wonder, would it havebeen better if we knew about it?
But that's how it affected me, butI'm curious how it affected you.
(25:49):
And also, especially looking at itfrom the perspective of a therapist.
Is there a part of you that wishthat there was a relationship and
what would have come out of it?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes, no doubt, no doubt, definitely.
And, and the fact that I'm a licensedmarriage and family therapist, and I'm
(26:12):
involved, I am systemically trainedin family dynamics and so forth.
And yes, and what all would be differencein those, those secrets, those secrets.
And at the same time, as I saythat, those are cornerstones
of a dysfunctional family.
(26:33):
We don't talk, we don'ttrust, we don't feel.
We don't talk about what goeson and what's said in this
house stays in this house.
So it stays right here.
So you don't get to explore, to ask aboutthis or that, like those, those secrets.
(26:54):
And so we don't talk.
So then what do you do withthese emotions that are inside?
They become numb.
So we don't feel.
So definitely would like forthat to have been different.
And so even taking it upon myself to.
I have relationships with and getinformation from and it sounded
(27:16):
as that was in the process.
She ended up dying.
She died the same year,a month before my dad.
She died July 2017 of a heart attack.
She was overweight and, and thenmy dad died from cancer in August.
(27:39):
Growing up in a family with citrus.
Did you have to do a lotof healing, self healing?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man, let me tell you.
Yeah.
So, how I got into the field,take you all the way back to
(28:01):
college, to where it began.
In high school, I played footballand And I ended up getting a jazz
scholarship to the local high school here.
And my parents was going througha divorce at the same time.
Cause I had another scholarshipopportunity, um, outside, but I
(28:21):
wanted to stay here with my mom.
So I go to North Harris jazz band.
That's another story.
But now the, But I'm gonna go aheadand say this piece because and the
instrument I play is trombone, aka slide.
(28:42):
And I remember going down the hallwayand all I'm hearing is ba doom doom,
ba doom doom, ba doom doom, shapadoom doom, shapa doom da da da da da
da da da da da da da da And I mean,it's just all this music going on.
I'm like, oh, MadamBrothers is in there again.
And I walked in, I saw one black person.
(29:08):
All these white cats justgetting down The black guy that
was playing a century young Of afront plan and man, I love that And,
(29:28):
oh my God, I love my old experiencethere in the jazz band moving forward.
I originally went to schoolto be a computer programmer.
And that's what my father said.
I need to do computers are the future.
So I had got certified beforeI went to high school, before I
(29:49):
went to college, because my junioryear, I ended up starting a program
called ACE and it was an advanced.
High school that if you knew what youwanted to do, you could take this classes.
And so as I'm getting my highschool diploma, I'm also getting
certified and bam, I'll become Mark.
So then college was to extend that yet.
(30:09):
When I got there, I was bored.
I'm a people person just being infront of the screen while I loved.
Playing video games, RPG, computertechnology to do this every day.
That's, that's, uh, so I have music.
(30:31):
The career in music would havebeen being a music teacher.
I don't want to teach music.
I should love performingmusic, but they didn't have it.
There was no grief for performing.
And so at that time, my mom,who's a nurse, had a friend, Ms.
Staggs, who was opening up achemical dependency unit at
Yale Hospital in Akers Homes.
(30:54):
Now, Akers Homes is the oldest AfricanAmerican community on the north side
of Houston, so I'm excited becauseshe needs substance abuse texts.
So I'll be working the weekend and itwas enough money to pay for my car note.
Cause that's all it had.
You know, I'm now, I have no bills.
I'm at home just enoughto pay my car note.
Oh, and I was excited because it wasblack owned in the black community.
(31:21):
We're going to make a difference.
We're going to make a change.
Yeah.
There was dope on campus.
There were dope deals going down.
Transactions the counselorwas having sex with.
Three of my clients.
Patient would relapseand not get treatment.
It was such a cluster, man.
(31:41):
Look at . I used to go into thecounselor's office every day, and
I would look at his certification.
I say, this is gonna be mines one day.
It's gonna be in mines one day.
So, instead of complaining aboutwhy don't somebody do something, why
don't somebody help these people,you know what, fine, I'll do it.
So, the next semester, I took 30 hours.
(32:02):
I took 15 hours at North Harris.
I took 15 hours at Tombaugh College.
Got approved by the dean.
30 hours, I did my internship that summer.
And then August 25th, 1998, 8 o'clock a.
m., I officially became a counselor.
I am a licensed chemicaldependence counselor.
(32:23):
That's the first licensure that I have.
So I specialize in treating individualswith addiction, substance use, love it.
While I was going to schools, I wasalso in a relationship at the time
as well, an abusive relationship.
I did not know I was in abusiverelationships until guess what?
(32:47):
We're talking about family.
Amics and a piece of family andthey're going through this criteria
and this checklist and I'm lookingand I'm seeing and my head is turning
and I'd never forget because I wentinto the bathroom and I cried and
(33:10):
my professor, Steve Paperman, walkedin and said, Henry, you're right.
And I said, no.
No, no, I'm not.
I said I just realized I'min a piece of relationship.
I
had no clue, because Frommy understanding, what I see
(33:37):
only the male can be abusive.
My father was, was, was theonly male can be abusive.
I'm a male.
I'm not in no abusive relationship.
Like hell I wasn't.
And the fact is thateverything that I was.
Receiving how I was taught to be even,even the hitting being striped, you
know, my man, I, I ain't striking, butnonetheless, yeah, you're hitting, it's
(33:59):
still, it's still a hit and, and, and,and being taught to the, the emotional
abuse and the things, things changed whenI saw her that night, that was a whole
different dynamic as far as the lady thatI was with at the time, and then being In
the world of recovery, even though I amnot in recovery, most individuals who are
(34:29):
licensed chemical dependency counselor,they are in recovery from drugs.
And I go.
So when I came on to see if through alot of people off because here I am,
I'm a non recovery person with the LCDC.
Yes, I am.
Why?
It's a question thatthrows everything off.
Nonetheless, saying all of that, I nevergave assignments or homework assignments
(34:57):
to my patient that I haven't done myself.
So even though I wasn't in recovery, I'mstill reading the material and it fit.
It all fit.
It all fits for making your owninventory of yourselves and looking
at what needs to be healed from you.
And this is Where even though Ididn't have no addiction, man, look
(35:18):
at here, my life just jacked up.
Unmanageable, dysfunction, and Istarted teaching family classes.
From that actual book, don't talk,don't trust, don't feel and learn all
the dynamics of an unhealthy home.
And I said, this is not,
(35:42):
so yeah, so yeah.
So, so, so, so going through that,learning how to communicate, learning
that there's emotions, I don'tknow, emotions, so I was just anger.
And then to be able to verbalize thatto my parents that I feel hurt, I
feel angry, I feel irritated, I feelfrustrated, I feel annoyed, I feel
(36:04):
scared, I feel fearful, I feel cautious.
So here's the development of emotionalintelligence and able to have that.
And it wasn't welcome.
It was not welcome when I firststarted using an I statement.
You know, Mom, I feel irritatedwhen you call my name out yelling
instead of just coming to me.
What I would like is if you needsomething, just come into the room
(36:24):
and ask me instead of yelling.
Oh, you irritated, huh, Mr.
Pittman.
That's what I know I'm in trouble.
Mr.
Pittman, my mom calls me Mr.
Pittman.
Oh, so you feel irritated, huh, Mr.
Pittman?
Yes.
And so, learning my,learning, how do I say that?
(36:48):
Learning, how would I, how would I put it?
Is learning what is.
And peeling, I don't want tosay peeling back the curtains.
It's me humbling and doing myown self examination as well.
Just because I am aprofessional, I have no issues.
(37:13):
No, no, no.
I think, I think that that's a bigissue too with, with, uh, people at
the master's levels, uh, therapists,you know, well, I'm a therapist.
That don't mean jack.
Uh, it means that you could pass an exam.
Congratulations.
You still got work to do.
You still got your own self examination.
And, and so.
(37:34):
That was one of the things thatled me to continue my education
to get my master level license.
Because at the time that was justan associates to be a licensed
chemical dependency counselor.
And so when I start seeing otherstuff that was beyond my scope of
practice, I can't even name it.
It's just, I'm like, Idon't know what that is.
(37:56):
Ah, that's not drug and alcohol.
And there was a gentleman named LuckyKurt, and he was a probation officer
at the time, and I was working atNew Directions Club Incorporated, so
it's a halfway house, dealing withoffenders, and I'm a TC counselor,
(38:18):
which stands for Therapeutic Community,so we're very confrontational.
On patients behavior.
So the T.
C.
Community, you're learningabout being my brother's keeper.
If I see that your bed is notmade, I'll be my brother's keeper.
I'm gonna bring it to your attention, man.
Your bed is not made.
You're getting trouble for that.
So it's holding people accountablefor behavior so they can unlearn about
(38:41):
snitching or that don't concern me.
You just look the other way.
It's about holding peopleaccountable is Behaviors.
And if one person get in trouble,everybody get in trouble, that's a TC
model and we're confronting behaviors,but it's just, it's strategically done.
You're not, people get the wrong ideawhen you're talking about confrontation
(39:04):
is that you're yelling and screaming.
That's hostility.
No.
Confrontation is just bringingwith face, bring it to the table.
What something is that is confrontation.
That's all that is.
Hey, I lend you 20 and youstill have not paid me back.
That's a confrontation.
I'm bringing that on the table and I'mnot pleased that I have to ask you for
(39:25):
the 20 that you was going to give me.
I am confronting an issue.
I'm just bringing it here.
Not say, man, you know, you hold me tight.
No, I'm being hostile.
That's that's with my confrontation.
That's different.
Oh, please give us another example ofthis because I'd love this because we have
such a misunderstanding of confrontation.
(39:49):
Oh, yes.
Right.
What's another example that you've comeacross that you think, Oh, we are so
misunderstood with the term confrontation.
There's so many said that that'sgoing through my mind, right?
(40:10):
What's going through my mind isone, I'm thinking about patients.
Then I'm also thinkingabout real world, real time.
And so not just patients, butalso in, in, in real time,
confrontation, here's a confrontation.
Routinely, I get my daughter, I mean,her mom, not together, I get my daughter,
and this is when she was younger, Iwould get her, bring her here, she
(40:35):
would take her bag, put it in her room,then she would say, Daddy, can I watch
Cartoon Network in the living room?
Yes, sweetie, you can.
And then she goes and turns on the TV.
This particular weekend, I had, theday before, I cleaned out my closet,
and I put in clothes I couldn't wear,and I put them in trash bags, and
(40:56):
her room was right next to my room.
It's a L.
But right next month, so I takethe bags of clothes and I put them
in her room just temporarily so Ican get them and then transform.
And yeah, when I went to pickher up, I did not remove them.
So my daughter comes in and she goesto the room and I said, sweetie, you
(41:21):
can go ahead and watch Cartoon Network.
She's like, no, no, no, dad,I'm gonna put my stuff up.
I said, I know, so I get it, you canjust go ahead and watch Cartoon Network.
No, no, no, dad, no,dad, I got it, I got it.
She's doing what it isthat she's been taught.
So she goes home andshe puts her stuff up.
And I'm in the kitchen and mydaughter says, dad, I said, yes,
sweetie, is my room the garbage room?
(41:45):
I said, no, sweetie.
She said, then how come there'sgarbage bags in my room, dad?
I said, the garbage bags are myclothes that I took out of my room.
And she said, okay, so howcome they're in my room?
(42:07):
I said, because I did not take them out.
Before you came, sweetie, and shesaid, are you going to take him out?
I said, yes, sweetie.
I am.
She said, okay.
Can I watch TV?
Yes.
Bringing to face the root word ofconfrontation, con, C O N, with, face.
You bringing it here.
(42:28):
It's, it's, it's aconference of confrontation.
And so she's bringing simply my attention,dad, is my room the garbage room?
No.
Then how come there aregarbage bags in my room?
All valid.
I I've shared that with other adults.
And the first thing come out oftheir mouth is she is disrespectful.
She's going to talk to the adult.
(42:49):
Oh,
who says she's disrespectful?
Disrespectful.
Respect is showing positive due regard.
She asked a question inthe same tone of voice.
There was no high pitch or low pitch.
There was no sassiness.
It wasn't none of that.
She just asked the questionin positive due regard.
(43:14):
It was very respectful.
So who said is disrespectful?
But with labels on that,it's disrespectful for a
kid to question an adult.
That's what it was.
Oh, question.
So about, you mean a kid cannothold an adult accountable?
Because it's, yes, it is a question.
It was a question that inquired.
(43:35):
And therefore, depending on if I choseto be honest or not, for me to be
honest, it's for me to be accountablefor my behavior, which I was.
There's no issue there.
But if there's adults who didn't wantto own and they was going to be shamed
Oh, they would have lashed at the kid.
What you think you're doing?
Talking to me?
This is my, I'll tell you, untilyou pay bills in this house,
(43:57):
you can't ask no questions.
Get out of my face, girl,and go and watch the TV.
That's how tough parentswould have behaved.
With your work in chemical dependency,and you've been doing this field for
so long, and abuse, we always hear theterm, you don't know until you know.
(44:19):
You got that right.
You got that right.
With your experience.
You You know how we, we always hearpeople say that people are stuck in
abusive relationship, whether it'sphysical or sexual or verbal, and
maybe even narcissistic relationship.
(44:39):
And a lot of people would judge and say,well, they should just leave the partner,
but it's not that easy because when youdon't see it, you just don't see it.
With your experience, are thereany things that you think that
can help people reference?
That, oh, they are in toxicrelationship, or do you think that
(45:07):
we, we must all each come to iton our own, those who are affected
it asks from, from my experience, itis actually both, you don't know until,
you know, you don't, you literallydon't know until you know, one thing
about being licensed mental healthprofessionals is educating patients
(45:32):
when they come in of symptoms, And justtalking about in, in, in relationships,
those type of dynamics was present.
Cause I actually had a patientand that was what was coming up.
She, we can't work on her PTSDcause she kept bringing up
these relationship dynamics.
Red flag was going on.
(45:53):
Same thing with another couple, herhusband drinking, uh uh, well, kind of
favors that of alcohol substance usedisorder as evidenced by dot, dot, dot,
dot, dot, dot, and I present the symptoms.
And that's.
Initially, what one can only do, Ican only give patient information
(46:18):
because the other element is denial.
Denial is the cloak of deception.
It stops us from making anhonest inventory of ourselves.
So if I bring you some information,do you choose to take it in
or choose to keep it out here?
And rightfully so, becausedenial does have its place.
It blocks psychological trauma.
(46:40):
It is, it's a healthy defense mechanismuntil it's not, when you hear that
somebody has died, Hey, such as died, thefirst thing is, Oh, I just, and then it's
begins to sink in as, okay, so what's thefuneral being in abusive relationships,
(47:00):
being in toxic relationships andgiving the signs and symptoms of it.
And then for them to take it in.
And it's just the more to take in becauseyou really have to understand this here.
All of us live in our own world andwhat I know is what I know and now you
(47:24):
bring me some information that beginsto, it influences what it is that I
thought is, that it is not, and reallyhave to understand what that, what
the realization of that impact does tothe, to a person's mindset, to an ego.
(47:45):
Yeah, I mean the classic move isthe matrix We can't get raises.
So You think that's air thatyou're breathing morphins?
I can't see that because you neverused your eyes, you know It's And so
to let that information come in andcultivate and then allowing the person
(48:06):
to then see for themselves and evenfor ourselves, Oh, this is what's
going on and what does that mean to meonce I realized this is what's going
on in my family that I'm actually in.
A toxic relationship.
I am in an abusive relationship.
I never thought I'd be inan abusive relationship.
Not me.
(48:26):
I'm not the type of personto allow this to happen.
There's so many ideology that becomesconflict in the cross when new information
arises for me to see it for what it is.
And then once I see it for what it is.
Now, what do I do?
Some individuals are in constraintrelationships where there's something
that locks us together, wherewe can't move out that easily.
(48:50):
It could be financial, couldbe kids, could be a financial
agreements, locations that there'sother, these factors that comes in.
It's just not this simple book
and you can't pull nobody.
You can't force nobody out.
And it ain't going to happen,understanding all of that I said, is
(49:15):
being there and being supportive tothem that when it does click or when
the individual is ready, I got you.
Which I always will be ready.
I'm just not going to cross that line tocome save you because I can't save you.
But I'm here whenever you're ready.
All you got to do is crossthe line and I'm right here.
In your years of being in thisfield, have you had to unlearn?
(49:45):
Anything?
Or did you have preconceived ideasabout being a therapist that now when
you look back after all these years,you think, what I learned are not
conducive to working with clients?
I said no, because I haven't, I haven'tchanged nothing except competency.
(50:07):
But that's, it started offwith me in high, in college.
So I went to s Houston State University.
I did the dual program for licensed magictherapist and professional counselor.
That's why I have dual licensure.
Well, I have four licensure.
That program was for those two.
And so
(50:32):
understanding counseling theoriesand approaches, and the reason why
one individual have a therapeuticapproach where one is in the upper
level and where one is not as far as.
You know, the classic, um, psychoanalysisthat you have a therapeutic facade.
(50:55):
You are seen as the expert.
That is the purpose of thatapproach is not face to face.
The person is lying down on the couch.
And the therapist behind them, becauseI'm playing this piece as, as, as was ego.
And we're doing the pre association.
(51:16):
There's a reasoning for that in aparticular therapeutic structure.
So for me coming in is that socialbutterfly psychoanalysis was not my thing.
I understood it.
Got it.
But for me, I didn't havethe therapeutic facade.
(51:38):
I can do the therapeutic facade.
You know, a patient say something,I'm like, Ooh, my professor say,
Henry, you don't want to, you know,
my, my goal was to do therapywithout doing therapy.
I wanted therapy to be like uskicking in, in the living room.
(52:01):
It didn't have to be so formal.
And while I say, Ooh, I can still give atherapeutic response and reflect of it.
Not saying, Ooh, just to say, Ooh, Ooh, Ican imagine that was devastating for you.
Use a reflective state.
Instead of just saying, Ooh.
(52:21):
What happened next?
Because that's beingcaught up in the story.
I'm not being therapeuticallypresent in it.
You can still do the same.
You can still be present and do what itis that one doing a regular conversation
style, still being therapeutically minded,which means I got to be clinically minded.
(52:43):
And in the background, I stillkeep therapeutic boundaries.
With me, with all patients, um, thatI have, because I'm, I'm a, I'm a
clinician, so you don't cross boundaries.
I don't have my kids, uh, or myfamily members, pictures up in my
wall, in my office and so forth.
That is not going to assist yoursymptomology that you present to me.
(53:07):
I will have, I have had couples say, Mr.
Grimley, you ain't saying anythingabout your relationships with us.
Correct, I haven't.
I am a clinician to help you with yours.
Thank you.
Nor my family dynamic.
How does that help me?
How does that help you with theinfidelity that you're having
with your wife's once again?
(53:29):
That ain't being mean nothing.
How is that beneficial towhat you're bringing in?
It doesn't so you're looking for clinicianAre you looking for a mentor because
they're not the same and there's differentpieces of that You have people say well,
you're not married or you don't have kids.
That's a mentorship You're lookingfor because other than that you carry
(53:50):
in the notion that Only a femaledoctor who has kids can actually
assist with the birthing process.
So only a doctor with schizophreniacan treat patients with schizophrenia.
So only a pa, only a doctorwho has cancer, can treat
patients who have cancer.
Is this that type of ideology withit, you know, only a, uh, uh, becoming
alcoholic can treat another alcoholic?
(54:11):
No.
A clinician can.
I, I, I'm here to treatsymptomologies of it.
And so how?
So, being in the years, been able tocultivate a rapport where I can connect
to patients, we can relate to patientsat the same time as clinically done.
Because when those boundaries cross,there's hardship that takes place.
(54:37):
Because I have learned that by boundariesbeing softened, so to speak, and come
back and invite, invite me to behind.
Most of that was my own people, reallydon't have conflicts with others.
I, it's, it's, it's my own people.
(54:57):
You need another, haveanother channel for that.
Boy, let me tell you.
So, but it's still, this piece forme is a, of clinical competency.
Cause that's just something thatindividuals have approached me about.
Why don't you use this here?
Because the white man, there's a gadget.
(55:19):
I do.
It's clinically competent for me.
I get clinical results.
So if you say, you're a black therapist?
No, I am a therapist who is black.
I don't treat blackness,I'm a therapist who's black.
Oh, that irks, that irks me so much.
So, you know, I see black women forthis and I see black men for this here.
(55:44):
Henry, let me see.
I see everybody.
Hmm.
I have African American.
I have Caucasian.
I have French.
I have Indian.
I got Vietnamese.
I have Mexican, Hispanic.
I have Persians.
I have Iranians.
I have the whole spectrum.
I have a practice that treats individuals.
(56:05):
Who wants to heal?
That's it.
How did you end up withsome insomnia experiencing?
Gina Gomez.
So I got trained in EMDR andGina Gomez did a plug for SE.
She said, Hi, my name is Gina Gomez.
(56:26):
Welcome to trauma training here that Ijust want to give you a plug about type
of training approach to treating trauma.
How many here are training MDR?
And a lot of people raised their hand.
And how many here are trainingSE, somatic experiencing?
It was two people.
Her, and the otherperson who was with her.
(56:47):
So, so.
And she had like somatic experience.
Only two of y'all are here.
Wow.
Well, I invite you to learn moreabout somatic experience, about
how to heal trauma from the body.
So, what's from the body?
How many curious?
Two reasons.
One, my background is one of,I'm a Tai Chi practitioner.
(57:09):
I used to teach Tai Chiat the local college.
So.
Understanding.
Energy.
Chi.
That's my background.
My school of thought is Choice TheoryReality Therapy by William Glassner.
It's a comprehensive cognitivebehavior therapy treatment
where we focus on behavior.
(57:29):
You can't lie with behavior.
Behavior is what it is.
If a person talk about losingweight, why are you here?
The buffet, you talkingabout losing weight?
Why are you here?
The buffet, that means you ain't talkingabout losing weight 'cause you're here.
The buffet behavior don't lie.
It it, it here's what, here's what it is.
And so then we do a backtrack as far aswe focus on behavior from the back door.
(57:52):
We begin to identify cognitionsversus traditional cognitive therapy.
We identified the cognitionand what is the error in logic.
That sits in it, because if you changethe thought, change the behavior.
Choice Theory RealityTherapy is behavior oriented.
You focus on yourbehavior, then backtrack.
(58:13):
And so, the analogy for ChoiceTheory Reality Therapy is a
car, is that the front wheelsis behavior, thought, thoughts.
It's connected to the rearwheel, which is emotions.
And behavior is connected to theback wheel, which is physiology.
A person is always holistically present.
(58:35):
At all times, they're here.
So when I learn about se, seconnects with the physiology of
choice theory, reality therapy.
Of course, not to that depththat SE does, but nonetheless,
it talks about physiology.
An individual physical is present in themoment when we talk about a person being
(58:57):
depressed, but they're depressing, is ING?
They're depressing in the moment.
That's what they're doing.
They're depressing.
It's this dude.
And so.
Went to the introduction at SCN.
That's it.
I'm up.
I'm in.
I'm in.
Let's do this here.
(59:20):
In another reality,what would you be doing?
I'll be a chef.
I'll be a chef.
But the fact is that this is me
being a therapist.
No matter what I do, another way for meto answer it, my personality, cause I
(59:42):
actually did take personality assessment.
I'm a public servant.
So no matter what it is that I will bedoing, I will still be in the public.
Because I'm a, I'm a, I'm a previouscommission officer, so security, right?
It's public teacher at thelocal college public, no matter
(01:00:04):
what it is that I would do.
I'm always going to be a public servant.
Therefore, assisting andvolunteering come easy with me.
That's the reason why I takeit seriously on many levels.
As far as assisting, making sure thatthey learn accurately learn, right?
I cannot stand it.
(01:00:24):
When
teaching is done incompetently,I cannot stand it.
I hit that guy.
Especially when it comesto more of people of color.
One of my favorite movies, Idon't have to explain, is Glory.
(01:00:50):
It was a movie that came out inthe 80s with Denzel Washington,
Morgan Freeman, Matthew Broderick.
He was playing the character ColonelShaw, and it was about the Civil War,
and it was about the all Black Regiment.
There's a particular scene.
In it, where they get rifles and theyfinally get rifles and they're shooting
(01:01:13):
and they're betting each other as faras how the one particular guy, how
good he is and he's, he's getting,he can shoot where it comes from.
So sure, he's coming and kind ofvery handy with the rifle and the guy
stutters because he, he's,he's, he's, he's that good of
(01:01:36):
a shot from hunting squirrels.
He said he would do it again.
And he loads and he shoots.
He said, good.
He said, reload.
He's okay.
Like faster, faster.
Sergeant.
Give me your, your coat.
45.
Taste the gun faster.
(01:01:58):
He gets the gun bound faster.
Now let's shoot.
Reload faster, faster, faster.
And the gap and theguy's just shaking his.
And he said, a welltrained army men can shoot.
And I cannot remember three tofive shots in a minute, be able
(01:02:21):
to reload and shoot that minute.
I keep talking about put the powder in,stuff it, pack it and shoot with accuracy.
And the Colonel says, Sergeantteach these men properly.
He's like, yes, sir.
(01:02:43):
Many times, the fact that people of colorare not taught accurately what it is.
The level, this is what it isversus what this is what they did.
No, no, no.
Let me teach you how toaccurately do this here.
Let me tell you how toaccurately be competent.
(01:03:04):
That's what it is.
So no matter what I will be doing, thatlevel of competency of period, it's
always will be there and all of that.
That's why you see me at the trainingswhen I talk about hand position.
I want you to really understandwhere your hand position go
and how come it goes here.
Even though I get the understanding,we're just going to mock around.
(01:03:26):
Don't want to mock around too muchbecause you can go into a person's
thoracic viscera and activateit and you won't even know it.
Therefore, let's stick to the diaphragmarea here around the rib cage.
Three, four ups.
Okay, and just hold.
Notice what's happening in your body.
Really want you to learn it.
That's how they learn it.
I know because I'm inthe same damn classes.
(01:03:49):
With them, and I learned it on that level.
I've, I've, I just learned S.
E., period, period.
Would you ever become like, a professor?
With your belief in that, the competency,which you would like, because I think
(01:04:09):
then you could take that into teaching.
Yes.
Yes.
And the answer to thatquestion is, is yes.
So even now, even now, I'm alreadyon the pre faculty track for SE.
Well, last question, anyadvice for new therapists?
(01:04:36):
One of them is this here,an advice to new therapists.
One advice is this here.
Do not throw away your grad school books.
The reason being when you wentto grad school, you read those
chapters to pass an exam.
That's what you read it for.
You didn't read it for theknowledge itself to incorporate it.
You read it to pass the exam.
(01:04:57):
No harm, no foul.
It is what it is.
Now, since you're out of school,read that material for what it is.
There is so much of a wealth of knowledgethat was not taught in the classroom.
It's in the books.
When I assist in SE and peoplesay, Oh man, I didn't know.
I didn't learn that.
Where did you learn that at?
I said, it's in the manual.
(01:05:19):
Oh, it is?
I see you didn't read the manual.
Not only the professors.
And as he says, we'll tell you,we don't teach from the manual.
They don't, but that doesn'tmean you don't read it.
They're just not going to teach itbecause they want to focus on this.
And there's so much in grad schoolthat people, that students miss to
(01:05:41):
where when they come into the field,coming into the field, they are so
underdeveloped as practitioners.
It's not even funny.
And at the same time, many don't knowuntil you bring them to their attention.
If you have a supervisorthat knows as well.
Which is this other piece.
The other piece of my advice is Eventhough you have gotten your hours
(01:06:08):
and you got your license, it's stillfor you to have a clinical mentor.
Your clinical supervisor isresponsible for your clinical
development as a clinician.
Many times you just got somebodywho signed off on your hours.
Pretty much is what they did.
Any problem this week?
(01:06:28):
Anything you want to talk about?
Okay, done.
Sign off.
That's what you got.
You never learn how to be a clinician.
Truly understanding what are these12 core functions of counseling
from screening, intake, assessment,counseling, client education, crisis
intervention, case management,consultation, reporting, record keeping,
discharging, how to do that clinically,how to verbalize the diagnosis.
(01:06:51):
And even when we talk about havinga therapeutic dialogue with someone,
how to conduct active listeningand probing and, and empathize
and negotiate and challenging.
There's this, these elements of howto become just naturally therapeutic.
That's part of the development.
That was your supervisor's responsibility.
Many failed that.
(01:07:12):
So just because, yes, I got my license,but then also seek clinical mentorship
as far as cultivating and developingmy clinical skills, and it don't stop.
It doesn't stop no matter what.
And probably one of the mosturgent thing is learning a school
of thought and mastering it.
(01:07:33):
Many individual practitioners,they take multiple trainings
and don't master nothing,
don't master nothing.
How do you expect to really becompetent and actually help people
heal if you're not, you have notmastered a school of thought?
If you're doing CBT, CBT is cool.
(01:07:54):
Master it first.
Before you end up learning CBT,and there's many types of CBTs.
But if you're doingEMDR, I said mastering.
Get your certification, master it.
If you're learning IFS, masterit first before you start
going off and, I want to do SC.
Cause there's so much in each one.
If you notice that the individuals whocreates these approaches, that's all
(01:08:18):
they do, you know, Peter Levine does SCE,Sue Johnson does emotion focused there.
Dick Swartz does IFS,William Glaster does CTRT.
Ain't none of them takingin and doing this and that.
They came across something they liked,they found it and they put their.
Energy into it and masterit and becomes effective.
(01:08:41):
So you don't have to,
you do not have to take all thesetrainings to be able to do everything.
I don't think it was never designed forus to be therapists to do everything.
I think part of that comes with greed.
You want to be in house shot.
Well, I do love this a little bit versus.
(01:09:01):
If you're a heart surgeon, heartsurgeon, I do heart surgery.
That's all I do.
I don't do anything else with the body.
So people come to see mebecause that's what I do.
A brain surgeon or ENT.
And of course, you can have your generalpractitioners, not knocking them.
Which would pretty much be trainedin supportive psychotherapy,
yet you're competent in it.
And if individuals need more work donethat is outside of your scope of practice
(01:09:25):
and expertise at the supportive level,then yes, you end up referring, because
other than that, supportive therapy isvery effective at what it is that it does.
So I know you just asked me onequestion, I gave you a lot of stuff.
I gave you a lot of stuff.
But it was the thing that, that is.
Heavy on my heart as far as bynew practitioner, re read your
(01:09:48):
book, clinical mentorship, master,master, a school of thought, so we
end up taking multiple trainings.
I love your advice, especially re readingyour books, because oftentimes when you're
doing your masters, it's just survival.
It is.
(01:10:09):
It's just survival.
And I totally agree with youradvice of mastering one thing.
Because so many people think,Oh, it looks good on my resume.
I'm going to do all these trainings.
I also tell new therapists,Don't take the training until you
have personally experienced it.
Because then you don't understandwhat the client is going through.
(01:10:33):
For example, with somatic experiencing,if you've never done it, you don't
know, you don't know how it feels tobe on the other chair as a client.
I'm also an acu detoxspecialist, so I do acu detox.
And it came, it came out of, uh, Me beinga licensed chemical dependency counselor,
(01:10:57):
that there is a license approved justfor acular acupuncture for chemical
dependency therapists, counselors, um,because it helps with cravings and urges.
It's phenomenal.
Yeah.
It helps with cravings and urges.
And so the first day of class, wetalk about doing it yourself first
(01:11:18):
day of class, we all lined up.
All right.
So you will take the needle kit out.
All right.
And if you would grab one needle withyour right hand and turn to your left.
And you will see your neighbor's ear.
Take the, this is first day of class,take the needle, and there's a, and
(01:11:41):
there's a ridge that's in the middleof the ear, ridge, and won't you
put the needle in that location.
We're looking at, oh, so
one person and everybody and everybodyand they said, okay, now you have
felt what it is, how not to do it.
(01:12:04):
Now I want your page to experiencewhat you just experienced.
No, I don't know whether you know this.
So I was, I was a licensedacupuncturist for 14 years.
That's what I did beforeI began to sign up.
(01:12:26):
When we first started in school, itwas like, please bring an orange menu.
Okay, so it was practiced in theorange first, so you can feel
how it seal to go into the skin.
That is cool because they saytechnically, they say if you insert
a needle into an orange, it's asclose to how you will feel on.
(01:12:49):
The flesh on the skin.
So you guys are more hardcore than me.
Just go.
Yeah, just Oh, but oh my god, oh no, Ihave a request before we end this When
you were sharing that you went to the bandpractice and you saw them practicing and
(01:13:10):
then you did the What are those sounds?
The sounds.
Will you do that tofinish out the episode?
You're so good at it.
Oh, Uh, yes, yes, yes.
(01:13:59):
Thank you.
You're welcome.
That was so fun.
What a great conversation with Henry.
This week's advice from IIme, your Chinese auntie.
is to trust that you are more than enough,especially when it comes to learning a
(01:14:20):
new skill for your job, whether you'rea therapist or an artist or creative.
Learn a skill well, experience it, thentake additional training if you want to.
Remember, you don't needto learn everything.
The Western capitalistic viewpoint tellsus that we need to keep learning, to keep
(01:14:42):
taking courses to be quote unquote better.
This brings me to the topic ofwhen you are looking at someone's
offerings, whether it is for a bodyworker, practitioner, or therapist,
consider what you think are essential.
Are they based on what theWestern ideology has taught you?
(01:15:04):
Do more credentials meanthey are more skillful?
Pay attention to your expectationswhen you meet someone.
Consider this, oftentimes when welook at someone we think, Oh, the more
education, the more credentials theyhave, that means they're more skillful.
It's not necessarily true.
(01:15:26):
A young chef in Japan begins theirapprenticeship at the end of high school.
And they will complete theapprenticeship in 10 years.
This is what traditionally, how long ittakes to become a sushi chef in Japan,
because they keep practicing the skill.
(01:15:48):
I know this doesn't apply to everyoneand we live in a Western world where
oftentimes jobs tell us that we need totake more training, or we look at social
media and there's so many offerings.
But Reconsider why areyou taking extra training?
Is it because you think that it willmake you better and more marketable?
(01:16:13):
That is something to consider.
I hope you have a great week.
Much love to you.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
(01:16:36):
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca P E T R I C I A PE T E R S E N dot C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
Hello, everyone.
This is Patricia, your Chinese auntie.
I have a request.
If you like the podcast, pleasetake 30 seconds to like the show,
review it and share your favoriteepisodes with your friends.
Tell your friends Iappreciate you so much.
. Welcome to Conversations WithYour Chinese Auntie Podcast.
(00:33):
And so the thing is, they're,they're throwing them to the crowd.
So you have to be interactive,because if not, you would get
slapped in the face with a moon pieor some bees because you're looking
over here and stuff is coming.
It is.
And so my lady's with me, so she donegot to get in the head with some bees.
And I came in and I caught somebees right before it hit her.
(00:59):
And I was excited.
Just because it was black,um, in the black community.
We're going to make a difference.
We're going to make a change.
Yeah!
There was dope on campus.
There was dope dealsgoing down transactions.
(01:20):
I am so excited for you to meet Henry M.
Pittman.
Henry is a licensedtherapist and counselor.
He assisted in my SomaticExperiencing SE three year training.
The training was all done onlineexcept for the last level.
So we met in person last year in Atlanta.
(01:40):
Henry is passionate about his work.
He is wise, knowledgeable,and a great storyteller.
And he's so funny.
In this episode, we talkabout a lot of things.
He explains how to do Mardi Gras properly.
Basically, you need to bringa bag and pay attention.
If not, you will get hit by thethings they throw from the floats.
(02:00):
He shares his journey and how he realizedwhen he was in an abusive relationship.
He also gives excellentadvice for new therapists.
Here is my conversation withHenry, listen to the end as he
does this jazzy trombone thing.
I think it's called scat.
It's awesome.
(02:27):
Hello, Henry.
What's up, Patricia?
What's up?
I've missed you.
Oh, I know.
I am well.
I said, I am well.
I've been.
On the go ever since, what's that,February 4th, so traveling from Houston,
(02:52):
Texas to Orlando, Florida, to Orlando,Florida, to Miami, Florida, to be on
a cruise with me and my lady for fourdays in the Bahamas, and then to spend a
day and a half, so to speak, in Mobile,Alabama, on the way back, which is my
hometown for Mardi Gras, because thatwasn't, it wasn't a plan to start.
(03:17):
I didn't realize when we was coming back,I looked at the schedule, wait a minute, I
think Mardi Gras is going on this weekend.
Sure enough, sure enough of what it did.
So saw family, did the parade.
She was excited because thatwas her first Mardi Gras.
She's from Dayton, Ohio, so she'snever been to Mardi Gras and me
(03:41):
educating her on how to do Mardi Gras.
Mardi Gras.
She's like, I've been to parades.
I'm like, sweetie, you need a bag.
You need to put stuff in.
She said, what you mean?
I said, it's very interactive.
Please tell us how to do it.
I know nothing about it.
Okay.
Okay.
(04:02):
I'll begin.
I'm going to begin with just Mobile,Alabama itself, because Mobile
started Mardi Gras in the 1800s.
And many times it throws peopleoff to hear Mobile, Alabama as the
originators of Mardi Gras becausepeople know about New Orleans.
I don't know.
Uh, some people pronounceit now, so in New Orleans,
(04:23):
Louisiana, it's a tourist city.
So it's, it's very popular, butbecause it's popular doesn't
mean that it's originated.
Well, Bill is the originator, it's nextdoor neighbor, or a couple of states over.
And so.
In mobile, I will say doing how to doMardi Gras is that you come with a bag
(04:46):
because it's not just a parade of floatsand dancers and high school bands and
performances is that on the floats,they're throwing items out to the crowd.
They're throwing candy.
Bubble gum, of course, bees, people, ofcourse, people know a lot about the bees,
(05:06):
but it's more than just bees, bees, moonpie, chocolate cakes, um, um, stuffed
animals, oolong goose, ramen noodles.
Okay, no, wait, let's justgo back to chocolate cake.
What do you mean that'snot chocolate cake?
Like in a container, like a piece?
(05:27):
No, they're, they'repackaged, they come in a box.
Oh.
And so just miniature.
Cakes that they are throwing out orsometimes they would throw a whole bag.
And so the thing is, they're,they're throwing them to the crowd.
So you have to be interactivebecause if not, you would get
slapped in the face with a moon pieor some bees because you're looking
(05:49):
over here and stuff is coming.
It is.
And so my lady is with me.
So she done got hit inthe head with some bees.
And I've came in and I caughtsome bees right before it hit her.
And then I put them on myself.
It is such a blast.
It is such a blast.
So it's not that you're just sittingthere looking at the floats and just
(06:12):
waving how you would see a routine parade.
And Oh, that's nice.
No, no, no.
You see the bands, the bandsin the South, they dance.
So they're dancing and planning andgrooving and another float comes.
And you hear peoplesaying, don't leave me.
It's a Mardi Gras that theyhave and stuff animals.
(06:35):
How many stuff animals I get?
I got three.
Did I get three?
Wow.
We got a ton of stuff just for one day.
We went for that morning and then thatevening and each parade is different.
Each parade has a different theme to it.
They're not the same.
Okay, when you say each parade, howmany parades are there in a day?
(07:00):
That day was five, six, seven.
Seven parades.
There's a schedule that tells youfrom 12 o'clock to that evening.
They tell you where theparades are going to be at.
Most of the parades are downtown Mobile.
Most of them.
There's a few that arein different locations.
(07:24):
They had their own map andthey had their own route.
And so what we used to do growing up,we will start at the 12 o'clock, go to
the parades, get in the car, drive overto the next parade when that starts
at three o'clock, then drive back todowntown for the 5 45 dragon parade.
Oh, which is a Saturday.
(07:44):
It was the mystics of time.
They had the dragon parade.
They got three longfloats that are dragons.
And people on top, you know, throwingstuff from, and so it's just a full day
and you don't have to go to all of them.
Of course you don't have to,but nonetheless, it's just a
hell of a day going from here,then to here, then to here.
(08:06):
And of course the food, you know,it's carnival like food that's
there, chicken on the stick.
I want a nice fried chicken on the stick,a corsage on the stick, a funnel cake.
Ain't nothing like a funnelcake, a true funnel cake.
And I'm not talking aboutone of those pre made books.
Can we use profanity?
I'm sorry.
Well, I'll prefer you don't.
(08:28):
Then if I have to change it to explicit.
Right.
So, so she gets some unfavorable,unfavorable on a cake.
Okay.
I don't know what a photo cake explain.
I'm going to have to Google it afterthis, you know, but, and you have
(08:48):
to come on down here to the stage.
Yes.
I'm going to have to come and visit you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Hospitality.
It is welcome.
So a funnel cake.
It's pretty much a pancake likebatter that is made in oil is fried.
(09:08):
And so they take the batterand they actually will loop and
then make these designs with it.
Nothing, no particular order.
They become all crisscross.
So you have a cake that is crispyon the outside cause it's fried,
but then when you crunch intoit, bite into it, it's also soft
and it has powdered sugar on top.
And you can have other toppingssuch as strawberry, peaches.
(09:33):
On top as well.
Some places they have them premade, so they're not fresh.
They'll take them like an egg orwaffle, these farmer cakes and.
Put them into an oven, dispenser,and then it comes out warm.
No, that's a travesty.
Don't do that with cakes.
(09:53):
Don't do that.
It's fresh.
Fresh.
Please tell us a bit about yourself.
I am from Mobile, Alabama.
And I'm the only child of Henry PittmanJr, excuse me, which was my dad.
(10:23):
And some people think thatI'm a junior because I'm named
after my dad, but I'm Henry M.
Pittman.
My father's Henry Pittman Jr.
because my granddad is Henry Pittman Sr.
And my mom did not wantto meet to be a third.
So,
so she told my dad, givethat boy a middle name.
(10:45):
So, yeah, which is Martez,Henry Martez Pittman.
And my, and my mother is EvelynJoyce Jenkins, her maiden name.
So it's the Jenkins and thePittmans and both of their origins
is in Mississippi, actually.
(11:09):
I said, born in Mobile, Alabama,Pritchett area, and parents were
married in 71, I was born in 76.
And I said, the only child betweenthem, that my father has five sisters.
So six of them, he has five sisters.
And then my mom has three other siblings.
That's four total.
(11:29):
And each one is very distinct.
So when I talk about my momo and popo,that's my father's side of the family.
That's the Pitmans.
When you hear me talk aboutgrandmother, granddad.
That's the Jenkins side of the family.
(11:50):
A difference in that is that theJenkins side of the family are educated.
Their school was very important.
That was the key.
My grandfather Worked on the railroad.
He was also in the Navy.
Both of my grandfathers was, he wasin the Navy, worked on the railroad.
(12:12):
My grandmother could have been a teacher.
She could have worked.
She chose not to.
And they had kids later inlife than earlier, around 40s.
And so Granddad made sure that all hiskids, his son and three girls, And my
mother being the youngest was educated,even despite what the church said,
(12:37):
per se, which was originally they wereBaptist and then they transitioned
to becoming Jehovah Witnesses.
And in the Jehovah Witness faith,the focus is on ministry, ministering
God's word, Jesus love and so forth.
And so education wasn't,that wasn't a primary.
My grandfather begged thedifferent because you can love
(12:58):
the Lord and get an education.
So my uncle is a educator, master'sdegree, my aunt Fannie, educator,
master's degree, my dad, bachelors,clothing designer, and my mother,
bachelors, two bachelors, bachelorsin biology and bachelors of nursing.
(13:19):
Cause she's a nurse,registered nurse and LVM.
And so, and all of them are still alive.
Mom just celebrated 50years of nursing last year.
We did.
Wow.
And yes, yes, a sense of that Iwas supposed to be, quote unquote,
(13:40):
the doctor coming into the family.
No pressure.
Right, right.
Dr.
Mental Health.
And my mom really wantedto be a nurse practitioner.
She said, yeah, at the end of thatparents marriage did not allow to
(14:01):
happen as she wanted it to happen.
So my parents, so that's theJenkins, Snapshot Jenkins.
More, more pawpaw, pitless, education,not so, because on the Pitman side,
I'm the first, I'm a first of a lot.
(14:21):
So as far as first one, high school,um, college, um, first generation
college on the Pitman side, althoughcompleted high school, also first
Pitman, no kids in high school.
That's also the first.
Because that's a theme that the Pittmanshad, as far as bearing children younger,
(14:48):
that my father was a chemical engineer.
He did some college.
And mobile that he endedup going to the air force.
He chose to go to the air forcebecause it was during the Vietnam war.
So he chose to go military inthe air force, because if he says
(15:11):
that he's fighting, he's goingto be dropping bombs with people.
He ain't going to be a suckerand go hand in hand combat.
So he went to the air force.
He was a firefighter.
He was stationed in Vietnam and came back.
And so he worked here in Easton, in TexasCity, was a chemical plant called Amoco.
(15:34):
And that's what my dad wasthere most of his time.
His position, chemical,chemical engineer operator.
As the years gone by and dadgot older, the company left.
From until that, my mother keptencouraging my dad, go to school,
Henry, go to school, go to school.
(15:54):
Because when it happenedthat I see got older.
And different jobs, why he could,why he had the knowledge of it.
He didn't have the paper of it.
And those were setbacksfor him later on in life.
And some of that, he bucked it.
They refused to do they want to do that.
Ain't no need for me to go to school.
The fact is that I know all that in a way.
(16:16):
True dad, but you, you need the paperto show them that, and so this is
love, hate relationship with education.
So while my father's very proud of me,of all it is that I have accomplished and
so forth and done, during the process, itwasn't so much, it was, okay, nice son,
(16:40):
how you going to school for dentists?
Nice son.
But then later on, as an adult, myfather said, I am just so proud of you.
You've done way more thanany Pittman has done.
You know, you surpassed me.
And he said, I surpassed my dad.
He said, that's the wayit is supposed to be.
And one that does thenext, the next, the next.
(17:01):
And so that was.
Very heartfelt to hear frommy dad, but that's just giving
you the dynamics of the Jenkins
so education is Set in my DNA
Is it common to be an onlychild When you were growing up,
(17:28):
I'm sitting here to go,I want to answer that.
Actually wasn't uncommon becauseit's just is so it just is.
I'm I'm the old child and I neverhad a problem being the old child.
I never yearned for a sibling thatthat never was the case for me.
(17:50):
I can't tell you myself.
I don't know.
That's because the Gemini in me and histwin, so I was, so I was always creative
and stuff and I'm a social butterflyand I will have and I have friends and
so that was an issue that, that I agreeit is uncommon to have just one child
(18:15):
because routinely you do have multiple.
Children, they said, my grandma,my mom, there's four of them and
my grandmother, there's 12 of them.
And so, yeah, say the grandparentsis five and I don't know, I do
not know my pitman's history.
(18:35):
They have not done, they'venot kept records like the
Jenkins have of who's who.
We can date all the way back to slaveryto my great grandmother, who's biracial,
white and black born into slavery.
So we can go all the way back.
Have photos, have all of that, thatleads us down to present day, but
(18:56):
not so, but nonetheless just withthem to as well, most of them had at
least two kids area, everybody hadto, um, I did have one that that's.
Legally, I'm the, I'm still theonly child of my mom and dad.
(19:20):
Yeah.
There's some others out there.
So I have a sister outthere and a brother as well.
And I'm saying he's in Philly.
So none of this is direct from my dad.
You know, it's like when peopledie, that's when stuff came out.
(19:41):
And that's what happened with me.
When my mom, my father'smom died, I was 15.
And a woman approached me and said, hi,I said, hi, he said, you remember me?
I said, no, she said, I used tohold you when you was a little,
no, she said, I'm your sister.
(20:04):
I said, okay, you wantto get something to eat?
And she said, yes.
And so we are walking andI'm walking dead to my mom.
She's right behind me andI'm walking dead to my mom.
And I said, do I got a sister?
And my mom looked,
(20:26):
go ask your dad.
So I went to my dad and he's onthe front row crying, you know, we
had a funeral, you know, crying.
I'm like, dad, dad, dad, dad.
Do I got a sister?
And he said, yes.
Yeah, you got a sister.
And when I turned around, she was gone.
Her name was Ritney.
She was gone.
And I remember that night, my parentsarguing at my grandparents house.
(20:53):
And I can't believe you're a dada da da da da da da da da da.
Well, I didn't know she wasgoing to approach him like that.
She's 18.
She was 18 at the time.
17, 18.
And I'm 15.
So she's older.
Because prior to my parents gettingmarried, there was this baby that
my mom kept seeing at the house.
(21:15):
And And she would alwaysinquire, Henry, who's this baby?
Who's this baby?
And the family has it as it was a cousin.
Well, actually that was my sister.
Cause if my mother knew this child wasmy dad, she would not have married him.
But my dad kept saying that it wasn't.
So she just married my dadcause she's born in 71.
(21:36):
Yeah, she's born in 71 and I'm in 76.
The reason why I know thatbecause later on, some documents
came to the house of my father'sdependents and it was 71, 76 and 80.
Hey, I know who the 76 is, who's the 71,who's the 80, who, who's, who's, yeah.
You are born with only child.
(22:01):
So listen, grew up as the onlychild, I had other siblings,
uh, out there and I met Rennie.
I was gonna say, do you havea relationship with her?
No, I do not.
And it's one of the thingsthat saddens me, it saddens
(22:22):
me because of this, secrets.
And parental influence.
So when I met Renny for the firsttime, that was when I was 15.
Then I met her again whenmy, when Pawpaw died.
And just so happens itwas my dad's birthday.
(22:45):
And after the funeral, we allwent out to eat afterwards.
It's, you know, the wholefamily, aunts, cousins.
And so my dad is at the head ofthe table and one of his sisters,
my aunt, had How about Henry'schildren Sit in, sit next to him?
(23:06):
So my father's here.
I'm here, Renee's here, and I'mlooking at my mother across the
way and she cutting my daddy.
She cut him sharply with him.
Eyes over there because itwas never introduced Mart.
Here's your sister, Rennie.
(23:27):
Rennie, this is your brother, Martez.
She knew of me, I didn't know of her.
But there was nothing formalthat was ever, ever said.
It was just, yeah, that's your sister.
Oh, oh, okay.
That's it.
Mom didn't say anything about it.
Dad didn't say anything else about it.
(23:51):
So it just, and so it wasn't said andshe will attempt to reach out and yet
because of the secrecy of it as a,as a kid, even coming as an adult,
well, I don't know what to do with it.
I don't, I don't, it was never encouragedfor me to have a relationship with her.
(24:17):
See, in my family, mydad was married twice.
All the males on my dad's line,as you go as far back to my great
grandfather, they were all married twice.
They all had two wives.
Yeah.
My mom used to call it the family'scurse because then her expectation
(24:39):
was the first marriage for mybrother would never work out.
You know, it was my uncle,my, all the dad side.
So my dad had a daughter with his firstwife and we knew nothing about it.
Until my grandfather's funeral, thefirst wife showed up with the daughter
(25:01):
and I, and I didn't know about it.
I was like nine, maybe.
And then my sister told mea few years later, she said,
do you remember this woman?
I'm like, no, right.
So she must be maybe 10 years olderthan me, but to this day, I'm like.
(25:25):
And in our family, in our cultureis very much based on shame, shame
that the marriage didn't work out,shame that he had a child and he
never kept in contact with the child.
And I wonder, would it havebeen better if we knew about it?
But that's how it affected me, butI'm curious how it affected you.
(25:49):
And also, especially looking at itfrom the perspective of a therapist.
Is there a part of you that wishthat there was a relationship and
what would have come out of it?
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes, no doubt, no doubt, definitely.
And, and the fact that I'm a licensedmarriage and family therapist, and I'm
(26:12):
involved, I am systemically trainedin family dynamics and so forth.
And yes, and what all would be differencein those, those secrets, those secrets.
And at the same time, as I saythat, those are cornerstones
of a dysfunctional family.
(26:33):
We don't talk, we don'ttrust, we don't feel.
We don't talk about what goeson and what's said in this
house stays in this house.
So it stays right here.
So you don't get to explore, to ask aboutthis or that, like those, those secrets.
(26:54):
And so we don't talk.
So then what do you do withthese emotions that are inside?
They become numb.
So we don't feel.
So definitely would like forthat to have been different.
And so even taking it upon myself to.
I have relationships with and getinformation from and it sounded
(27:16):
as that was in the process.
She ended up dying.
She died the same year,a month before my dad.
She died July 2017 of a heart attack.
She was overweight and, and thenmy dad died from cancer in August.
(27:39):
Growing up in a family with citrus.
Did you have to do a lotof healing, self healing?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Man, let me tell you.
Yeah.
So, how I got into the field,take you all the way back to
(28:01):
college, to where it began.
In high school, I played footballand And I ended up getting a jazz
scholarship to the local high school here.
And my parents was going througha divorce at the same time.
Cause I had another scholarshipopportunity, um, outside, but I
(28:21):
wanted to stay here with my mom.
So I go to North Harris jazz band.
That's another story.
But now the, But I'm gonna go aheadand say this piece because and the
instrument I play is trombone, aka slide.
(28:42):
And I remember going down the hallwayand all I'm hearing is ba doom doom,
ba doom doom, ba doom doom, shapadoom doom, shapa doom da da da da da
da da da da da da da da And I mean,it's just all this music going on.
I'm like, oh, MadamBrothers is in there again.
And I walked in, I saw one black person.
(29:08):
All these white cats justgetting down The black guy that
was playing a century young Of afront plan and man, I love that And,
(29:28):
oh my God, I love my old experiencethere in the jazz band moving forward.
I originally went to schoolto be a computer programmer.
And that's what my father said.
I need to do computers are the future.
So I had got certified beforeI went to high school, before I
(29:49):
went to college, because my junioryear, I ended up starting a program
called ACE and it was an advanced.
High school that if you knew what youwanted to do, you could take this classes.
And so as I'm getting my highschool diploma, I'm also getting
certified and bam, I'll become Mark.
So then college was to extend that yet.
(30:09):
When I got there, I was bored.
I'm a people person just being infront of the screen while I loved.
Playing video games, RPG, computertechnology to do this every day.
That's, that's, uh, so I have music.
(30:31):
The career in music would havebeen being a music teacher.
I don't want to teach music.
I should love performingmusic, but they didn't have it.
There was no grief for performing.
And so at that time, my mom,who's a nurse, had a friend, Ms.
Staggs, who was opening up achemical dependency unit at
Yale Hospital in Akers Homes.
(30:54):
Now, Akers Homes is the oldest AfricanAmerican community on the north side
of Houston, so I'm excited becauseshe needs substance abuse texts.
So I'll be working the weekend and itwas enough money to pay for my car note.
Cause that's all it had.
You know, I'm now, I have no bills.
I'm at home just enoughto pay my car note.
Oh, and I was excited because it wasblack owned in the black community.
(31:21):
We're going to make a difference.
We're going to make a change.
Yeah.
There was dope on campus.
There were dope deals going down.
Transactions the counselorwas having sex with.
Three of my clients.
Patient would relapseand not get treatment.
It was such a cluster, man.
(31:41):
Look at . I used to go into thecounselor's office every day, and
I would look at his certification.
I say, this is gonna be mines one day.
It's gonna be in mines one day.
So, instead of complaining aboutwhy don't somebody do something, why
don't somebody help these people,you know what, fine, I'll do it.
So, the next semester, I took 30 hours.
(32:02):
I took 15 hours at North Harris.
I took 15 hours at Tombaugh College.
Got approved by the dean.
30 hours, I did my internship that summer.
And then August 25th, 1998, 8 o'clock a.
m., I officially became a counselor.
I am a licensed chemicaldependence counselor.
(32:23):
That's the first licensure that I have.
So I specialize in treating individualswith addiction, substance use, love it.
While I was going to schools, I wasalso in a relationship at the time
as well, an abusive relationship.
I did not know I was in abusiverelationships until guess what?
(32:47):
We're talking about family.
Amics and a piece of family andthey're going through this criteria
and this checklist and I'm lookingand I'm seeing and my head is turning
and I'd never forget because I wentinto the bathroom and I cried and
(33:10):
my professor, Steve Paperman, walkedin and said, Henry, you're right.
And I said, no.
No, no, I'm not.
I said I just realized I'min a piece of relationship.
I
had no clue, because Frommy understanding, what I see
(33:37):
only the male can be abusive.
My father was, was, was theonly male can be abusive.
I'm a male.
I'm not in no abusive relationship.
Like hell I wasn't.
And the fact is thateverything that I was.
Receiving how I was taught to be even,even the hitting being striped, you
know, my man, I, I ain't striking, butnonetheless, yeah, you're hitting, it's
(33:59):
still, it's still a hit and, and, and,and being taught to the, the emotional
abuse and the things, things changed whenI saw her that night, that was a whole
different dynamic as far as the lady thatI was with at the time, and then being In
the world of recovery, even though I amnot in recovery, most individuals who are
(34:29):
licensed chemical dependency counselor,they are in recovery from drugs.
And I go.
So when I came on to see if through alot of people off because here I am,
I'm a non recovery person with the LCDC.
Yes, I am.
Why?
It's a question thatthrows everything off.
Nonetheless, saying all of that, I nevergave assignments or homework assignments
(34:57):
to my patient that I haven't done myself.
So even though I wasn't in recovery, I'mstill reading the material and it fit.
It all fit.
It all fits for making your owninventory of yourselves and looking
at what needs to be healed from you.
And this is Where even though Ididn't have no addiction, man, look
(35:18):
at here, my life just jacked up.
Unmanageable, dysfunction, and Istarted teaching family classes.
From that actual book, don't talk,don't trust, don't feel and learn all
the dynamics of an unhealthy home.
And I said, this is not,
(35:42):
so yeah, so yeah.
So, so, so, so going through that,learning how to communicate, learning
that there's emotions, I don'tknow, emotions, so I was just anger.
And then to be able to verbalize thatto my parents that I feel hurt, I
feel angry, I feel irritated, I feelfrustrated, I feel annoyed, I feel
(36:04):
scared, I feel fearful, I feel cautious.
So here's the development of emotionalintelligence and able to have that.
And it wasn't welcome.
It was not welcome when I firststarted using an I statement.
You know, Mom, I feel irritatedwhen you call my name out yelling
instead of just coming to me.
What I would like is if you needsomething, just come into the room
(36:24):
and ask me instead of yelling.
Oh, you irritated, huh, Mr.
Pittman.
That's what I know I'm in trouble.
Mr.
Pittman, my mom calls me Mr.
Pittman.
Oh, so you feel irritated, huh, Mr.
Pittman?
Yes.
And so, learning my,learning, how do I say that?
(36:48):
Learning, how would I, how would I put it?
Is learning what is.
And peeling, I don't want tosay peeling back the curtains.
It's me humbling and doing myown self examination as well.
Just because I am aprofessional, I have no issues.
(37:13):
No, no, no.
I think, I think that that's a bigissue too with, with, uh, people at
the master's levels, uh, therapists,you know, well, I'm a therapist.
That don't mean jack.
Uh, it means that you could pass an exam.
Congratulations.
You still got work to do.
You still got your own self examination.
And, and so.
(37:34):
That was one of the things thatled me to continue my education
to get my master level license.
Because at the time that was justan associates to be a licensed
chemical dependency counselor.
And so when I start seeing otherstuff that was beyond my scope of
practice, I can't even name it.
It's just, I'm like, Idon't know what that is.
(37:56):
Ah, that's not drug and alcohol.
And there was a gentleman named LuckyKurt, and he was a probation officer
at the time, and I was working atNew Directions Club Incorporated, so
it's a halfway house, dealing withoffenders, and I'm a TC counselor,
(38:18):
which stands for Therapeutic Community,so we're very confrontational.
On patients behavior.
So the T.
C.
Community, you're learningabout being my brother's keeper.
If I see that your bed is notmade, I'll be my brother's keeper.
I'm gonna bring it to your attention, man.
Your bed is not made.
You're getting trouble for that.
So it's holding people accountablefor behavior so they can unlearn about
(38:41):
snitching or that don't concern me.
You just look the other way.
It's about holding peopleaccountable is Behaviors.
And if one person get in trouble,everybody get in trouble, that's a TC
model and we're confronting behaviors,but it's just, it's strategically done.
You're not, people get the wrong ideawhen you're talking about confrontation
(39:04):
is that you're yelling and screaming.
That's hostility.
No.
Confrontation is just bringingwith face, bring it to the table.
What something is that is confrontation.
That's all that is.
Hey, I lend you 20 and youstill have not paid me back.
That's a confrontation.
I'm bringing that on the table and I'mnot pleased that I have to ask you for
(39:25):
the 20 that you was going to give me.
I am confronting an issue.
I'm just bringing it here.
Not say, man, you know, you hold me tight.
No, I'm being hostile.
That's that's with my confrontation.
That's different.
Oh, please give us another example ofthis because I'd love this because we have
such a misunderstanding of confrontation.
(39:49):
Oh, yes.
Right.
What's another example that you've comeacross that you think, Oh, we are so
misunderstood with the term confrontation.
There's so many said that that'sgoing through my mind, right?
(40:10):
What's going through my mind isone, I'm thinking about patients.
Then I'm also thinkingabout real world, real time.
And so not just patients, butalso in, in, in real time,
confrontation, here's a confrontation.
Routinely, I get my daughter, I mean,her mom, not together, I get my daughter,
and this is when she was younger, Iwould get her, bring her here, she
(40:35):
would take her bag, put it in her room,then she would say, Daddy, can I watch
Cartoon Network in the living room?
Yes, sweetie, you can.
And then she goes and turns on the TV.
This particular weekend, I had, theday before, I cleaned out my closet,
and I put in clothes I couldn't wear,and I put them in trash bags, and
(40:56):
her room was right next to my room.
It's a L.
But right next month, so I takethe bags of clothes and I put them
in her room just temporarily so Ican get them and then transform.
And yeah, when I went to pickher up, I did not remove them.
So my daughter comes in and she goesto the room and I said, sweetie, you
(41:21):
can go ahead and watch Cartoon Network.
She's like, no, no, no, dad,I'm gonna put my stuff up.
I said, I know, so I get it, you canjust go ahead and watch Cartoon Network.
No, no, no, dad, no,dad, I got it, I got it.
She's doing what it isthat she's been taught.
So she goes home andshe puts her stuff up.
And I'm in the kitchen and mydaughter says, dad, I said, yes,
sweetie, is my room the garbage room?
(41:45):
I said, no, sweetie.
She said, then how come there'sgarbage bags in my room, dad?
I said, the garbage bags are myclothes that I took out of my room.
And she said, okay, so howcome they're in my room?
(42:07):
I said, because I did not take them out.
Before you came, sweetie, and shesaid, are you going to take him out?
I said, yes, sweetie.
I am.
She said, okay.
Can I watch TV?
Yes.
Bringing to face the root word ofconfrontation, con, C O N, with, face.
You bringing it here.
(42:28):
It's, it's, it's aconference of confrontation.
And so she's bringing simply my attention,dad, is my room the garbage room?
No.
Then how come there aregarbage bags in my room?
All valid.
I I've shared that with other adults.
And the first thing come out oftheir mouth is she is disrespectful.
She's going to talk to the adult.
(42:49):
Oh,
who says she's disrespectful?
Disrespectful.
Respect is showing positive due regard.
She asked a question inthe same tone of voice.
There was no high pitch or low pitch.
There was no sassiness.
It wasn't none of that.
She just asked the questionin positive due regard.
(43:14):
It was very respectful.
So who said is disrespectful?
But with labels on that,it's disrespectful for a
kid to question an adult.
That's what it was.
Oh, question.
So about, you mean a kid cannothold an adult accountable?
Because it's, yes, it is a question.
It was a question that inquired.
(43:35):
And therefore, depending on if I choseto be honest or not, for me to be
honest, it's for me to be accountablefor my behavior, which I was.
There's no issue there.
But if there's adults who didn't wantto own and they was going to be shamed
Oh, they would have lashed at the kid.
What you think you're doing?
Talking to me?
This is my, I'll tell you, untilyou pay bills in this house,
(43:57):
you can't ask no questions.
Get out of my face, girl,and go and watch the TV.
That's how tough parentswould have behaved.
With your work in chemical dependency,and you've been doing this field for
so long, and abuse, we always hear theterm, you don't know until you know.
(44:19):
You got that right.
You got that right.
With your experience.
You You know how we, we always hearpeople say that people are stuck in
abusive relationship, whether it'sphysical or sexual or verbal, and
maybe even narcissistic relationship.
(44:39):
And a lot of people would judge and say,well, they should just leave the partner,
but it's not that easy because when youdon't see it, you just don't see it.
With your experience, are thereany things that you think that
can help people reference?
That, oh, they are in toxicrelationship, or do you think that
(45:07):
we, we must all each come to iton our own, those who are affected
it asks from, from my experience, itis actually both, you don't know until,
you know, you don't, you literallydon't know until you know, one thing
about being licensed mental healthprofessionals is educating patients
(45:32):
when they come in of symptoms, And justtalking about in, in, in relationships,
those type of dynamics was present.
Cause I actually had a patientand that was what was coming up.
She, we can't work on her PTSDcause she kept bringing up
these relationship dynamics.
Red flag was going on.
(45:53):
Same thing with another couple, herhusband drinking, uh uh, well, kind of
favors that of alcohol substance usedisorder as evidenced by dot, dot, dot,
dot, dot, dot, and I present the symptoms.
And that's.
Initially, what one can only do, Ican only give patient information
(46:18):
because the other element is denial.
Denial is the cloak of deception.
It stops us from making anhonest inventory of ourselves.
So if I bring you some information,do you choose to take it in
or choose to keep it out here?
And rightfully so, becausedenial does have its place.
It blocks psychological trauma.
(46:40):
It is, it's a healthy defense mechanismuntil it's not, when you hear that
somebody has died, Hey, such as died, thefirst thing is, Oh, I just, and then it's
begins to sink in as, okay, so what's thefuneral being in abusive relationships,
(47:00):
being in toxic relationships andgiving the signs and symptoms of it.
And then for them to take it in.
And it's just the more to take in becauseyou really have to understand this here.
All of us live in our own world andwhat I know is what I know and now you
(47:24):
bring me some information that beginsto, it influences what it is that I
thought is, that it is not, and reallyhave to understand what that, what
the realization of that impact does tothe, to a person's mindset, to an ego.
(47:45):
Yeah, I mean the classic move isthe matrix We can't get raises.
So You think that's air thatyou're breathing morphins?
I can't see that because you neverused your eyes, you know It's And so
to let that information come in andcultivate and then allowing the person
(48:06):
to then see for themselves and evenfor ourselves, Oh, this is what's
going on and what does that mean to meonce I realized this is what's going
on in my family that I'm actually in.
A toxic relationship.
I am in an abusive relationship.
I never thought I'd be inan abusive relationship.
Not me.
(48:26):
I'm not the type of personto allow this to happen.
There's so many ideology that becomesconflict in the cross when new information
arises for me to see it for what it is.
And then once I see it for what it is.
Now, what do I do?
Some individuals are in constraintrelationships where there's something
that locks us together, wherewe can't move out that easily.
(48:50):
It could be financial, couldbe kids, could be a financial
agreements, locations that there'sother, these factors that comes in.
It's just not this simple book
and you can't pull nobody.
You can't force nobody out.
And it ain't going to happen,understanding all of that I said, is
(49:15):
being there and being supportive tothem that when it does click or when
the individual is ready, I got you.
Which I always will be ready.
I'm just not going to cross that line tocome save you because I can't save you.
But I'm here whenever you're ready.
All you got to do is crossthe line and I'm right here.
In your years of being in thisfield, have you had to unlearn?
(49:45):
Anything?
Or did you have preconceived ideasabout being a therapist that now when
you look back after all these years,you think, what I learned are not
conducive to working with clients?
I said no, because I haven't, I haven'tchanged nothing except competency.
(50:07):
But that's, it started offwith me in high, in college.
So I went to s Houston State University.
I did the dual program for licensed magictherapist and professional counselor.
That's why I have dual licensure.
Well, I have four licensure.
That program was for those two.
And so
(50:32):
understanding counseling theoriesand approaches, and the reason why
one individual have a therapeuticapproach where one is in the upper
level and where one is not as far as.
You know, the classic, um, psychoanalysisthat you have a therapeutic facade.
(50:55):
You are seen as the expert.
That is the purpose of thatapproach is not face to face.
The person is lying down on the couch.
And the therapist behind them, becauseI'm playing this piece as, as, as was ego.
And we're doing the pre association.
(51:16):
There's a reasoning for that in aparticular therapeutic structure.
So for me coming in is that socialbutterfly psychoanalysis was not my thing.
I understood it.
Got it.
But for me, I didn't havethe therapeutic facade.
(51:38):
I can do the therapeutic facade.
You know, a patient say something,I'm like, Ooh, my professor say,
Henry, you don't want to, you know,
my, my goal was to do therapywithout doing therapy.
I wanted therapy to be like uskicking in, in the living room.
(52:01):
It didn't have to be so formal.
And while I say, Ooh, I can still give atherapeutic response and reflect of it.
Not saying, Ooh, just to say, Ooh, Ooh, Ican imagine that was devastating for you.
Use a reflective state.
Instead of just saying, Ooh.
(52:21):
What happened next?
Because that's beingcaught up in the story.
I'm not being therapeuticallypresent in it.
You can still do the same.
You can still be present and do what itis that one doing a regular conversation
style, still being therapeutically minded,which means I got to be clinically minded.
(52:43):
And in the background, I stillkeep therapeutic boundaries.
With me, with all patients, um, thatI have, because I'm, I'm a, I'm a
clinician, so you don't cross boundaries.
I don't have my kids, uh, or myfamily members, pictures up in my
wall, in my office and so forth.
That is not going to assist yoursymptomology that you present to me.
(53:07):
I will have, I have had couples say, Mr.
Grimley, you ain't saying anythingabout your relationships with us.
Correct, I haven't.
I am a clinician to help you with yours.
Thank you.
Nor my family dynamic.
How does that help me?
How does that help you with theinfidelity that you're having
with your wife's once again?
(53:29):
That ain't being mean nothing.
How is that beneficial towhat you're bringing in?
It doesn't so you're looking for clinicianAre you looking for a mentor because
they're not the same and there's differentpieces of that You have people say well,
you're not married or you don't have kids.
That's a mentorship You're lookingfor because other than that you carry
(53:50):
in the notion that Only a femaledoctor who has kids can actually
assist with the birthing process.
So only a doctor with schizophreniacan treat patients with schizophrenia.
So only a pa, only a doctorwho has cancer, can treat
patients who have cancer.
Is this that type of ideology withit, you know, only a, uh, uh, becoming
alcoholic can treat another alcoholic?
(54:11):
No.
A clinician can.
I, I, I'm here to treatsymptomologies of it.
And so how?
So, being in the years, been able tocultivate a rapport where I can connect
to patients, we can relate to patientsat the same time as clinically done.
Because when those boundaries cross,there's hardship that takes place.
(54:37):
Because I have learned that by boundariesbeing softened, so to speak, and come
back and invite, invite me to behind.
Most of that was my own people, reallydon't have conflicts with others.
I, it's, it's, it's my own people.
(54:57):
You need another, haveanother channel for that.
Boy, let me tell you.
So, but it's still, this piece forme is a, of clinical competency.
Cause that's just something thatindividuals have approached me about.
Why don't you use this here?
Because the white man, there's a gadget.
(55:19):
I do.
It's clinically competent for me.
I get clinical results.
So if you say, you're a black therapist?
No, I am a therapist who is black.
I don't treat blackness,I'm a therapist who's black.
Oh, that irks, that irks me so much.
So, you know, I see black women forthis and I see black men for this here.
(55:44):
Henry, let me see.
I see everybody.
Hmm.
I have African American.
I have Caucasian.
I have French.
I have Indian.
I got Vietnamese.
I have Mexican, Hispanic.
I have Persians.
I have Iranians.
I have the whole spectrum.
I have a practice that treats individuals.
(56:05):
Who wants to heal?
That's it.
How did you end up withsome insomnia experiencing?
Gina Gomez.
So I got trained in EMDR andGina Gomez did a plug for SE.
She said, Hi, my name is Gina Gomez.
(56:26):
Welcome to trauma training here that Ijust want to give you a plug about type
of training approach to treating trauma.
How many here are training MDR?
And a lot of people raised their hand.
And how many here are trainingSE, somatic experiencing?
It was two people.
Her, and the otherperson who was with her.
(56:47):
So, so.
And she had like somatic experience.
Only two of y'all are here.
Wow.
Well, I invite you to learn moreabout somatic experience, about
how to heal trauma from the body.
So, what's from the body?
How many curious?
Two reasons.
One, my background is one of,I'm a Tai Chi practitioner.
(57:09):
I used to teach Tai Chiat the local college.
So.
Understanding.
Energy.
Chi.
That's my background.
My school of thought is Choice TheoryReality Therapy by William Glassner.
It's a comprehensive cognitivebehavior therapy treatment
where we focus on behavior.
(57:29):
You can't lie with behavior.
Behavior is what it is.
If a person talk about losingweight, why are you here?
The buffet, you talkingabout losing weight?
Why are you here?
The buffet, that means you ain't talkingabout losing weight 'cause you're here.
The buffet behavior don't lie.
It it, it here's what, here's what it is.
And so then we do a backtrack as far aswe focus on behavior from the back door.
(57:52):
We begin to identify cognitionsversus traditional cognitive therapy.
We identified the cognitionand what is the error in logic.
That sits in it, because if you changethe thought, change the behavior.
Choice Theory RealityTherapy is behavior oriented.
You focus on yourbehavior, then backtrack.
(58:13):
And so, the analogy for ChoiceTheory Reality Therapy is a
car, is that the front wheelsis behavior, thought, thoughts.
It's connected to the rearwheel, which is emotions.
And behavior is connected to theback wheel, which is physiology.
A person is always holistically present.
(58:35):
At all times, they're here.
So when I learn about se, seconnects with the physiology of
choice theory, reality therapy.
Of course, not to that depththat SE does, but nonetheless,
it talks about physiology.
An individual physical is present in themoment when we talk about a person being
(58:57):
depressed, but they're depressing, is ING?
They're depressing in the moment.
That's what they're doing.
They're depressing.
It's this dude.
And so.
Went to the introduction at SCN.
That's it.
I'm up.
I'm in.
I'm in.
Let's do this here.
(59:20):
In another reality,what would you be doing?
I'll be a chef.
I'll be a chef.
But the fact is that this is me
being a therapist.
No matter what I do, another way for meto answer it, my personality, cause I
(59:42):
actually did take personality assessment.
I'm a public servant.
So no matter what it is that I will bedoing, I will still be in the public.
Because I'm a, I'm a, I'm a previouscommission officer, so security, right?
It's public teacher at thelocal college public, no matter
(01:00:04):
what it is that I would do.
I'm always going to be a public servant.
Therefore, assisting andvolunteering come easy with me.
That's the reason why I takeit seriously on many levels.
As far as assisting, making sure thatthey learn accurately learn, right?
I cannot stand it.
(01:00:24):
When
teaching is done incompetently,I cannot stand it.
I hit that guy.
Especially when it comesto more of people of color.
One of my favorite movies, Idon't have to explain, is Glory.
(01:00:50):
It was a movie that came out inthe 80s with Denzel Washington,
Morgan Freeman, Matthew Broderick.
He was playing the character ColonelShaw, and it was about the Civil War,
and it was about the all Black Regiment.
There's a particular scene.
In it, where they get rifles and theyfinally get rifles and they're shooting
(01:01:13):
and they're betting each other as faras how the one particular guy, how
good he is and he's, he's getting,he can shoot where it comes from.
So sure, he's coming and kind ofvery handy with the rifle and the guy
stutters because he, he's,he's, he's, he's that good of
(01:01:36):
a shot from hunting squirrels.
He said he would do it again.
And he loads and he shoots.
He said, good.
He said, reload.
He's okay.
Like faster, faster.
Sergeant.
Give me your, your coat.
45.
Taste the gun faster.
(01:01:58):
He gets the gun bound faster.
Now let's shoot.
Reload faster, faster, faster.
And the gap and theguy's just shaking his.
And he said, a welltrained army men can shoot.
And I cannot remember three tofive shots in a minute, be able
(01:02:21):
to reload and shoot that minute.
I keep talking about put the powder in,stuff it, pack it and shoot with accuracy.
And the Colonel says, Sergeantteach these men properly.
He's like, yes, sir.
(01:02:43):
Many times, the fact that people of colorare not taught accurately what it is.
The level, this is what it isversus what this is what they did.
No, no, no.
Let me teach you how toaccurately do this here.
Let me tell you how toaccurately be competent.
(01:03:04):
That's what it is.
So no matter what I will be doing, thatlevel of competency of period, it's
always will be there and all of that.
That's why you see me at the trainingswhen I talk about hand position.
I want you to really understandwhere your hand position go
and how come it goes here.
Even though I get the understanding,we're just going to mock around.
(01:03:26):
Don't want to mock around too muchbecause you can go into a person's
thoracic viscera and activateit and you won't even know it.
Therefore, let's stick to the diaphragmarea here around the rib cage.
Three, four ups.
Okay, and just hold.
Notice what's happening in your body.
Really want you to learn it.
That's how they learn it.
I know because I'm inthe same damn classes.
(01:03:49):
With them, and I learned it on that level.
I've, I've, I just learned S.
E., period, period.
Would you ever become like, a professor?
With your belief in that, the competency,which you would like, because I think
(01:04:09):
then you could take that into teaching.
Yes.
Yes.
And the answer to thatquestion is, is yes.
So even now, even now, I'm alreadyon the pre faculty track for SE.
Well, last question, anyadvice for new therapists?
(01:04:36):
One of them is this here,an advice to new therapists.
One advice is this here.
Do not throw away your grad school books.
The reason being when you wentto grad school, you read those
chapters to pass an exam.
That's what you read it for.
You didn't read it for theknowledge itself to incorporate it.
You read it to pass the exam.
(01:04:57):
No harm, no foul.
It is what it is.
Now, since you're out of school,read that material for what it is.
There is so much of a wealth of knowledgethat was not taught in the classroom.
It's in the books.
When I assist in SE and peoplesay, Oh man, I didn't know.
I didn't learn that.
Where did you learn that at?
I said, it's in the manual.
(01:05:19):
Oh, it is?
I see you didn't read the manual.
Not only the professors.
And as he says, we'll tell you,we don't teach from the manual.
They don't, but that doesn'tmean you don't read it.
They're just not going to teach itbecause they want to focus on this.
And there's so much in grad schoolthat people, that students miss to
(01:05:41):
where when they come into the field,coming into the field, they are so
underdeveloped as practitioners.
It's not even funny.
And at the same time, many don't knowuntil you bring them to their attention.
If you have a supervisorthat knows as well.
Which is this other piece.
The other piece of my advice is Eventhough you have gotten your hours
(01:06:08):
and you got your license, it's stillfor you to have a clinical mentor.
Your clinical supervisor isresponsible for your clinical
development as a clinician.
Many times you just got somebodywho signed off on your hours.
Pretty much is what they did.
Any problem this week?
(01:06:28):
Anything you want to talk about?
Okay, done.
Sign off.
That's what you got.
You never learn how to be a clinician.
Truly understanding what are these12 core functions of counseling
from screening, intake, assessment,counseling, client education, crisis
intervention, case management,consultation, reporting, record keeping,
discharging, how to do that clinically,how to verbalize the diagnosis.
(01:06:51):
And even when we talk about havinga therapeutic dialogue with someone,
how to conduct active listeningand probing and, and empathize
and negotiate and challenging.
There's this, these elements of howto become just naturally therapeutic.
That's part of the development.
That was your supervisor's responsibility.
Many failed that.
(01:07:12):
So just because, yes, I got my license,but then also seek clinical mentorship
as far as cultivating and developingmy clinical skills, and it don't stop.
It doesn't stop no matter what.
And probably one of the mosturgent thing is learning a school
of thought and mastering it.
(01:07:33):
Many individual practitioners,they take multiple trainings
and don't master nothing,
don't master nothing.
How do you expect to really becompetent and actually help people
heal if you're not, you have notmastered a school of thought?
If you're doing CBT, CBT is cool.
(01:07:54):
Master it first.
Before you end up learning CBT,and there's many types of CBTs.
But if you're doingEMDR, I said mastering.
Get your certification, master it.
If you're learning IFS, masterit first before you start
going off and, I want to do SC.
Cause there's so much in each one.
If you notice that the individuals whocreates these approaches, that's all
(01:08:18):
they do, you know, Peter Levine does SCE,Sue Johnson does emotion focused there.
Dick Swartz does IFS,William Glaster does CTRT.
Ain't none of them takingin and doing this and that.
They came across something they liked,they found it and they put their.
Energy into it and masterit and becomes effective.
(01:08:41):
So you don't have to,
you do not have to take all thesetrainings to be able to do everything.
I don't think it was never designed forus to be therapists to do everything.
I think part of that comes with greed.
You want to be in house shot.
Well, I do love this a little bit versus.
(01:09:01):
If you're a heart surgeon, heartsurgeon, I do heart surgery.
That's all I do.
I don't do anything else with the body.
So people come to see mebecause that's what I do.
A brain surgeon or ENT.
And of course, you can have your generalpractitioners, not knocking them.
Which would pretty much be trainedin supportive psychotherapy,
yet you're competent in it.
And if individuals need more work donethat is outside of your scope of practice
(01:09:25):
and expertise at the supportive level,then yes, you end up referring, because
other than that, supportive therapy isvery effective at what it is that it does.
So I know you just asked me onequestion, I gave you a lot of stuff.
I gave you a lot of stuff.
But it was the thing that, that is.
Heavy on my heart as far as bynew practitioner, re read your
(01:09:48):
book, clinical mentorship, master,master, a school of thought, so we
end up taking multiple trainings.
I love your advice, especially re readingyour books, because oftentimes when you're
doing your masters, it's just survival.
It is.
(01:10:09):
It's just survival.
And I totally agree with youradvice of mastering one thing.
Because so many people think,Oh, it looks good on my resume.
I'm going to do all these trainings.
I also tell new therapists,Don't take the training until you
have personally experienced it.
Because then you don't understandwhat the client is going through.
(01:10:33):
For example, with somatic experiencing,if you've never done it, you don't
know, you don't know how it feels tobe on the other chair as a client.
I'm also an acu detoxspecialist, so I do acu detox.
And it came, it came out of, uh, Me beinga licensed chemical dependency counselor,
(01:10:57):
that there is a license approved justfor acular acupuncture for chemical
dependency therapists, counselors, um,because it helps with cravings and urges.
It's phenomenal.
Yeah.
It helps with cravings and urges.
And so the first day of class, wetalk about doing it yourself first
(01:11:18):
day of class, we all lined up.
All right.
So you will take the needle kit out.
All right.
And if you would grab one needle withyour right hand and turn to your left.
And you will see your neighbor's ear.
Take the, this is first day of class,take the needle, and there's a, and
(01:11:41):
there's a ridge that's in the middleof the ear, ridge, and won't you
put the needle in that location.
We're looking at, oh, so
one person and everybody and everybodyand they said, okay, now you have
felt what it is, how not to do it.
(01:12:04):
Now I want your page to experiencewhat you just experienced.
No, I don't know whether you know this.
So I was, I was a licensedacupuncturist for 14 years.
That's what I did beforeI began to sign up.
(01:12:26):
When we first started in school, itwas like, please bring an orange menu.
Okay, so it was practiced in theorange first, so you can feel
how it seal to go into the skin.
That is cool because they saytechnically, they say if you insert
a needle into an orange, it's asclose to how you will feel on.
(01:12:49):
The flesh on the skin.
So you guys are more hardcore than me.
Just go.
Yeah, just Oh, but oh my god, oh no, Ihave a request before we end this When
you were sharing that you went to the bandpractice and you saw them practicing and
(01:13:10):
then you did the What are those sounds?
The sounds.
Will you do that tofinish out the episode?
You're so good at it.
Oh, Uh, yes, yes, yes.
(01:13:59):
Thank you.
You're welcome.
That was so fun.
What a great conversation with Henry.
This week's advice from IIme, your Chinese auntie.
is to trust that you are more than enough,especially when it comes to learning a
(01:14:20):
new skill for your job, whether you'rea therapist or an artist or creative.
Learn a skill well, experience it, thentake additional training if you want to.
Remember, you don't needto learn everything.
The Western capitalistic viewpoint tellsus that we need to keep learning, to keep
(01:14:42):
taking courses to be quote unquote better.
This brings me to the topic ofwhen you are looking at someone's
offerings, whether it is for a bodyworker, practitioner, or therapist,
consider what you think are essential.
Are they based on what theWestern ideology has taught you?
(01:15:04):
Do more credentials meanthey are more skillful?
Pay attention to your expectationswhen you meet someone.
Consider this, oftentimes when welook at someone we think, Oh, the more
education, the more credentials theyhave, that means they're more skillful.
It's not necessarily true.
(01:15:26):
A young chef in Japan begins theirapprenticeship at the end of high school.
And they will complete theapprenticeship in 10 years.
This is what traditionally, how long ittakes to become a sushi chef in Japan,
because they keep practicing the skill.
(01:15:48):
I know this doesn't apply to everyoneand we live in a Western world where
oftentimes jobs tell us that we need totake more training, or we look at social
media and there's so many offerings.
But Reconsider why areyou taking extra training?
Is it because you think that it willmake you better and more marketable?
(01:16:13):
That is something to consider.
I hope you have a great week.
Much love to you.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
With Your Chinese Auntie podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcasts.
That helps others find the show,and we greatly appreciate it.
(01:16:36):
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website, patriciapeterson.
ca P E T R I C I A PE T E R S E N dot C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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