February 8, 2024 • 19 mins
Alicia delves into the world of communication techniques and encourage listeners to evaluate potential reasons behind communication mishaps in their relationships. Encounter a world of compassion and understanding around the communication styles our partners might bring to the table due to past experiences and stress.
Experience the power of slowing down your communication, becoming more observant of conversational cues, and explore the growth and change that comes from "verbatim exercise" for augmenting active listening skills. In this episode, we constructively critique the importance of truly hearing your partner for a radical transformation of your relationships.
Finally, the Alicia proposes a set of exercises to polish your active listening skills and guide you through the process of understanding non-verbal cues. They share practical tips deploying these subtle hints to not only comprehend your partner better but to showcase empathy and understanding. This episode is a must-listen for couples wishing to improve their bond and communication techniques.
-About Alicia
Alicia is a registered psychologist with over 24 years of experience in private practice. Her journey began in the fascinating field of forensics, where she gained invaluable assessment skills and was exposed to a wide range of mental health issues.
However,her true passion lies in family systems, attachment and the ecosystem of relationships. She has dedicated her career to understanding and working with the intricate dynamics of families and relationships. To deepen her knowledge and skills, she have undergone extensive training in couples therapy, including Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) and the Gottman Method. One approach that has truly captivated her is Stan Tatkin's PACT therapy, which centers around the concept of secure attachment.
In addition to being a psychologist, she is also a life coach, a PACT coach, and a relationship coach. These roles allow her to support individuals and couples in creating meaningful and fulfilling lives and nurturing healthy connections. She is also the clinical director of Core Elements Counseling and has supervised many students and provisional psychologists as well as taught at both college and University campuses.
On a personal note, she is happily married, celebrating over 20 years of partnership. Together, with her spouse raising two incredible teenagers, which has provided a unique understanding of the challenges and joys of navigating family life.
Outside of my professional life, she is a lover of dark chocolate, an advocate for all animals, and finds solace in the beauty of nature.
-About Dayna
Dayna Mullen is a passionate Registered Psychologist (Alberta #3595, BC #2828, Vermont #047.0133697) and Relationship Coach dedicated to helping individuals and couples improve their lives and relationships. With a belief in accessing inner potential and creating a clear life vision, Dayna empowers clients to make positive changes. Her background in forensics led her to specialize in couples therapy and earn a Master's of Science degree in Marriage and Family Therapy. She is committed to ongoing professional development and collaborates with experts in the field. Dayna finds inspiration in her own marriage and is a playful, kindhearted, and an outgoing person. She loves her family, friends, black coffee, and milk chocolate. Dayna's mission is to guide clients towards secure and fulfilling relationships, helping them lead extraordinary lives.
-Our Business
The Relationship Psychologist podcast is committed to deepening your self-understanding, enhancing your relationships, and navigating life's challenges in a healthy and positive way. Drawing from our combined experience of over 45 years, we are excited to share our knowledge and expertise, empowering you to cultivate healthier relationships and tackle the obstacles of everyday life with a positive mindset.
-Things Heard on This Episode
Core Elements - http://bit.ly/3pawldh
daynamullen.com - https://bit.ly/3JqtG67
-Connect with The Relationship Psychologist
The Relationship Psychologist's Instagram - https://bit.ly/3XmbdgG
Alicia's Instagram - https://bit.ly/3pefIgJ
Dayna's Instagram - https://bit.ly/3NjvMWj
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Shoes i said a thousand times and i'll say it again empathy is
not putting yourself in someone else's shoes empathy is hearing
their point of view from their point of view so i
hear you say from your point of view your experience is this and
i can validate for you i understand for you how that feels that is empathy and
good communication expresses that and then through that we build trust we're
(00:22):
able to be more vulnerable with each other which again creates connection we
are able to resolve conflict and talk about hard topics engage in healthy healthy
healthy conversations that we don't disagree.
We can disagree with each other a lot, actually, and still have healthy conversations
and healthy. And there's novelty built in there.
It's not always, we're not always meant to agree. We know this in a relationship.
You know, if we've been married for a period of time, we know that we're not
(00:42):
always going to agree and it creates, you know, interest.
It creates a different point of view. It grows us. It allows us to evolve and
grow. Welcome to the Relationship Psychologist Podcast.
Tune in every Thursday to learn with us as we interview experts and laugh with
us as we banter about friendship and take action of implementing the tools and
advice we provide to you each week to level up your personal relationships.
I'm Dana Mullen. And I'm Alicia Hinger. We are soul sisters,
(01:06):
besties, and psychologists on a mission to change the culture of relationships.
Your journey to becoming more supported and connected starts right now.
Okay, hello and welcome to this mini-series on communication for couples, for relationships.
I kind of want to do this little mini series for a number of reasons.
(01:28):
I'm not going to say it's the number one reason, but it's definitely amongst
the top reasons that couples come into my office and Dana's office looking for
support in their relationship.
So there's many reasons that communication breaks down. I also want to say this.
People come in and that's what they cite is their communication is the reason
that they're here to see me.
(01:49):
But often it's not actually the reason. They're just not sure what the reason is.
So there's a thing behind the thing behind the thing. Like I always say,
people come in and they say, you know, we're here and asking what their kind
of what their goals are for therapy.
And they'll say, if we just would have better communication out there,
our relationship would be great.
And that could be true. But it's also not always true.
There's many reasons that communication
breaks down and many reasons why relationships are breaking down.
(02:11):
For example, there may be, you know, unresolved trust, for example.
There might be a difference of perceptions, which happens all the time.
We all think that we have, we come in with this idea that we see the same thing
or experience the same thing, the same.
And of course, we all know that we don't. There is a point of view that we have that's unique.
And then our perception, of course, is affected by every single belief,
(02:31):
you know, emotion, experience, memory, et cetera, et cetera.
We have up until that very moment in time.
But what I will say is that I observe in my office quite often that people come
in and I actually ask them initially to look at each other often and explain
to each other what what they're doing in my office, what they hope to gain from
being in therapy, for example.
(02:51):
And I'm watching for lots of things. But of course, I came for their ability
to communicate clearly and actually receive their partner's information or be
influenced by their partner's information in some way.
And we all know what it feels like to be misunderstood or not heard or not validated.
We all know that feeling.
I also want to assume that the person that's listening on purpose.
(03:14):
There's so many reasons that get in the way of their own inability to pay attention,
their inability to repeat back what we're saying, their own inability to actively
listen or engage in a conversation.
People ask for help with their communication styles for so many reasons,
or the communication skills, I should say, for so many reasons.
We all know that communication is a fundamental, very important part of any relationship.
(03:38):
Even with the animals that I care for on my acreage, they communicate all the
time. And it's my job to pay attention to what they're communicating,
their cues, their tells, to understand what's happening for them.
So with the human animals that I work with, we misunderstand communication for many, many reasons.
People have a hard time expressing their emotions maybe
they didn't learn or have a safe place to express emotions in
(03:59):
the past and so therefore they keep them locked up people are
worried about creating conflict and so they avoid communication or
avoid hard topics everyone has different communication styles
we all bring our past experiences of course to every
encounter and so we had an experience with communication
in the past where we were shut down or we were told we were
too much or we were too emotional or we weren't allowed to
(04:20):
communicate or we're you know know for a thousand reasons we can
be poor communicators lack of communication of course
leads to breakdown in relationship it leads to trust issues
it leads to insecurity and then
we're unable to process or talk about or work or grow on
things that are important to us like our shared dreams and goals like growing
our individual sense of self and growing our relationship like taking care of
(04:42):
our health our mental health our physical health our emotional health like growing
our intimacy like growing our trust parenting financial i mean communication
of of course, affects all of these areas of our relationship.
So we know what it feels like. I think we all can agree. We know what it feels
like to not be understood and to have poor communication for a thousand reasons.
I'm not going to go into details in this podcast of all the reasons why communication breaks down.
(05:04):
What I want to do is just invite you to assess for yourself why yours might
be breaking down or what concerns may be affecting your relationship.
But what I want to do is just give you some skills and some things to try in
these next couple of podcasts that will hopefully influence you and your relationship
in a positive way to you try different ways to communicate.
It's not a one size fits all. Like I say all the time, if this is a concern,
(05:26):
seek help, seek somebody else to help you navigate this world of communication.
Because when it goes well, and it can create connection, understanding,
the magic, remember what it feels like to feel validated when someone actually hears you? People.
Shoes. I've said a thousand times and I'll say it again. Empathy is not putting
yourself in someone else's shoes.
Empathy is hearing their point of view from their point of view.
(05:48):
So I hear you say from your point of view, your experience is this,
and I can validate for you. I understand for you how that feels.
That is empathy and good communication expresses that.
And then through that, we build trust. We're able to be more vulnerable with
each other, which again, creates connection.
We are able to resolve conflict and talk about hard topics, engage engage in
healthy, healthy conversations that we don't disagree, we can disagree with
(06:10):
each other a lot, actually, and still have healthy conversations and healthy,
and there's novelty built in there.
It's not always, we're not always meant to agree. We know this in a relationship.
You know, if we've been married for a period of time, we know that we're not always going to agree.
And it creates, you know, interest, it creates a different point of view,
it grows us, it allows us to evolve and grow.
But having good communication and a container of that creates an emotional safety
(06:31):
in a space where we can feel vulnerable enough to communicate our our truth.
So there's a thousand reasons, you know, that the gratitude and appreciation
when couples have that moment in my office where they're finally listening to
each other and hearing each other, I can see it. I can feel the air shift in their room.
There's a gratitude and appreciation and a connection and a vulnerability that
happens where they, for the first time, maybe ever feel like they've been heard, like truly heard.
(06:55):
So that's my goal. That's just kind of what I want to do this little podcast
here is just to give you some, again, just some skills.
This is not a one size fits all for sure, which is why I want to give you a
couple of different ways to navigate negate communication.
Again, being mindful that there are so many reasons why it breaks down.
This is not a blame game. This is a default system. We're often defaulting to old patterns.
And so again, I invite you to assess what patterns you're bringing to the table
(07:19):
and be compassionate about the patterns your partner might be bringing to the
table because of maybe old blueprints,
because of stress in their life, maybe financial strains or parenting strains
or or fears, or overload,
or past trauma, past experiences, et cetera.
Okay, so one of the things I do quite often in my office, if I see individuals
(07:39):
sitting in their chairs and their communication is not working,
of course, I'm watching for, again, all those cues I mentioned at the beginning.
I'm watching for the verbal, the non-verbals, the body language,
the way they breathe, the way they hold their face, the way they smile,
the way they move their fingers and legs, the way they hold their breath,
the sound of their voice, the tone of their voice, the prosody of their voice.
(08:00):
There's so many things they're paying attention to. and I see breakdowns what
I have them do is really slow it down and this exercise that
I try with them it's going to feel like a pain in the ass I'm not going to lie
this first exercise is going to feel like a bit of a pain in the ass but the reason
I do it is I want people to slow down their communication to
pay attention to at least some of those if not all of those things I just mentioned
so I invite you to try this with your partner I'm going to call this this is
(08:23):
called a I call it verbatim exercise if it sounds familiar if you've done any
imago therapy it's a very similar type of therapy that's done in Imago,
which is the work of Harville Hendricks and Helen Hunt,
which are the founders of Imago Relationship Therapy.
I'm not Imago trained, so this is kind of my version of an active listening skill.
But if you've done Imago therapy, this is probably going to sound very familiar to you.
(08:46):
So I have them first look at each other. So face your partner eye to eye,
face to face, not side to side, not sitting on a couch beside each other.
If you're sitting on a couch, literally turn your bodies and face each other.
Better yet, sit on two chairs where you're face-to-face, eye-to-eye.
So don't do this in the car.
That would not be the right time to do this exercise in the car.
Face-to-face, eye-to-eye. Okay.
(09:07):
And I want you to pause first and just, even if you want to close your eyes
for a second, and just start to regulate. Feel your own body.
What's your heart rate doing? What's your breathing doing? What are your senses picking up on? Okay.
And just take a second to regulate your own system. Because we know when we
get dysregulated or get stressed, it's hard to communicate.
When I get excited or I get emotional, my words, as you guys all know,
(09:29):
get really fast and mumble jumble together.
So take a second, take a few deep breaths if you want, and then really pause
and think, what is the goal?
What is the intent of this communication? What is the intent of this dialogue?
And of course, the intent, if you're doing it with me, is to practice.
We're just doing a practice something. thing.
But the intent when we take this into real life is I really want my partner
(09:49):
to hear what I have to say, or I really want to understand what my partner is
going to say to me that I'm not understanding.
And let me just say this too. You don't have to agree. It's not the intent is
to agree with your partner or the intent isn't even often to fully appreciate
the content. And I'm going to say that here's the truth.
My partner, as many of you know, loves sport and me and all sports,
but especially football, NFL, American football.
(10:12):
And so when he comes home and he's describing and he's so excited and animated about
trades that are happening in you know his sport world i will
never remember the content for the people's names very rarely i
remember a name unless it's someone like tom brady or somebody i don't
remember the names of who's getting traded or what but his animation i'm paying
attention to he's excited about something so i'm watching his non-verbals and
i'm repeating back sounds like that was good oh that sounds like a bad trade
(10:33):
oh sounds like that's going to hurt your team i'm repeating back what i'm seeing
in his in his non-verbals and in his expressions not the content but we're going
to get there that's going to step you. I digress. Okay.
So face-to-face, eye-to-eye, take a second, regulate yourself.
Ask yourself what your intentions are and then create a container that we are
here to listen to each other and is safe, secure.
(10:55):
We are each other's partners. I have your back. We're in this together. We are teammates.
So start with that intention. Okay. And then I want you to take turns.
So the first person that's going to speak, we're going to call them the speaker.
One's going to speak. One's going to listen. And the person speaking,
I really want the person speaking to to also pay attention to the listening
partner's non-verbals.
(11:16):
Because the goal of this initially, if I see partners struggling,
I have them actually repeat back verbatim what their partner said.
And again, there's a reason for that. When I say verbatim, the reason I'm doing
that is to slow down the experience so they can actually see how much capacity
they have to listen to their partner.
I'm also interrupting that rebuttal thing we have. You know that thing we do
when we're listening to our partner or someone talk and we're already in our
(11:36):
head rebuttaling what we're going to say next.
We're already trying to formulate our own arguments, but we're not actually
listening to the person speaking because we're in our own heads.
So when I do the verbatim exercise, I'm interrupting those patterns.
So start with that. Have your partner speak, have the speaker speak and the
listening partner is going to listen and when they've heard enough that they
can't verbatim back what the other person said, just say stop.
(11:57):
So what I've heard you say so far is and then word for word,
don't ad lib, don't paraphrase, don't add in your own feelings.
I know this is so hard because you want to say back what you're thinking or
your experience or your perception.
This is not the time or the place. we're going to get there i promise i want
you to just pause and verbatim back what your partner said
word for word and if
(12:17):
your partner said too many words you don't understand or you forgot just apologize
sorry can you say that again can you repeat sorry i didn't quite understand
or i didn't quite hear i didn't quite get all of that can you say that again
and then the speaker says it again you say okay what i've heard you say so far
is this yes okay continue and you keep doing that back and forth until the speaker
is finished everything that they need to say.
And at the end of that, I'll often have the partner that's listening,
(12:40):
then paraphrase back, not yet, give their two cents or their opinions yet,
just say, so overall, what I've heard you say is this.
And if I want to add in a little empathy, that's a great time to say,
so my understanding of your experience is this.
It sounds like you're feeling like this. That's where you can start to add in
a little bit of your own perception of their experience, not your own experience
yet. This is where validation comes into play.
(13:02):
We're trying to validate the speaker's experience from their point of view, not ours.
Reverse and again we make space here if we get it wrong for
the speaker to say no that's not quite right or no i didn't say that or no i
didn't mean to say that or maybe no i you misinterpreted me okay pause say it
again and we keep going until the speaker has exalted their story till they're
finished with their story and that they feel fully understood heard and validated that's importance.
(13:27):
And then when they're when you're done then you reverse rules and now switch
and now you now you You, the listener, gets to become the speaker and say all of your point of view.
And now the speaker becomes a listener and do the same thing.
Verbatim back what your partner is saying.
Verbatim again for those couple of reasons, like I said, interrupting that rebuttal
process and engaging in actual paying attention, listening, and assessing your
(13:50):
capacity for how much information you can retain.
And at the end of all that, paraphrase what you heard and then give empathy,
understanding, validation.
It sounds like your experience is this, that I get that right.
And you're really looking for, did I fully understand you?
Do you feel like I fully understood your understood your point of view?
This is going to create a container that hopefully feels safe, hopefully playful.
(14:13):
I know it's a pain in the ass way of communicating for now.
I don't want you to communicate this on a regular basis because that would be
really annoying, but I want you to practice this as a skill set to try to learn things differently.
So how might this sound for example? So let's say you're sitting with your partner
and let's let's pick a neutral topic like work.
Let's say your partner's having a struggle at work and they can say to you, okay.
(14:33):
Hey, my partner's name is Jay. Hey, Jay, I wanted to talk to you about work.
And I start sharing my concerns with my boss, let's say, or my coworkers or
whatever the experience is at work. And I'm watching my partner nod and smile.
But when I see their face glides over, I feel like they can't,
maybe they've heard enough.
I'll say maybe, what did you hear so far? Or vice versa, the listener saying,
hey, pause Alicia, what I've heard you say so far is this.
(14:56):
And they're telling me back what I've heard. And I'm nodding and smiling.
Yes, or no, it's not quite what I said, that or it's not what I meant. Let me try that again.
It also is making me get really clear with what I'm trying to say,
getting really clear with my thoughts, my intentions of what I'm trying to get across.
This is also a good time if you're doing this with your partner to practice
the skill of, I don't want your advice or feedback. I just want to vent about my work, for example.
(15:17):
And then when I feel heard and understood, we switch gears again.
And then I listen to your point of view. Maybe it was to do with your work.
Maybe it's to do with my boss that you actually hate or who knows.
Maybe it's to do with parenting.
The content is not important at this point. We're just practicing active listening.
That's it. For the goal of creating an atmosphere, creating a container of mutual
understanding, safety, security, empathy, connection.
(15:38):
And then when you're finished, get curious about that. Maybe you can ask yourself
some questions like, how was that for me?
How did I feel when I expressed my feelings, my thoughts, my experiences,
my perceptions without being interrupted?
How was that for me to have my partner actually engage in active nodding,
smiling, smiling, active listening to my point of view?
Did I see that reflected on their face? Were they mirroring my experience best
(16:00):
they could on their face, in their body language, in what they said back to me?
Did I notice any emotional triggers or reactions in my own body while I was being mirrored?
Did I feel appreciation and gratitude? Did I feel validation?
What was my experience about hearing my partner say back my experience in their own words?
First in the verbatim that they actually listened to me, but then when they paraphrased.
(16:20):
Did I feel understood? Did I feel feel heard?
How did I respond when they didn't get it right? How did I respond when they misunderstood?
Did I adjust calmly? Did I make adjustments appropriately? Did I get reactive?
Again, this is not judgment. This is really a chance for you to self-assess
and notice the parts of you that got triggered, the parts of you that felt validated,
the parts of you that felt connected, just noticing how this experience was for you as the speaker.
(16:46):
And then as the listener, listener, how well did I listen?
How well was I able to stay present and actually engage and mirror back my partner's experience?
Did I feel like my face, my body, my gestures were mirroring my partner's experience?
Did I and was I presenting empathy, understanding, validation?
Did I notice any nonverbal cues my partner was portraying? Did I express nonverbal
(17:11):
cues back to them? Was I able to as I confused by them.
What did I learn about my partner's inner world while I was marrying them?
Did my partner express any challenges or discomfort or concerns about how I
supported them or married them in this process?
And then together, what can we do to improve and deepen understanding,
to deepen our connection, our communication in the future?
(17:32):
I sometimes have partners too, when they're doing this exercise,
pause if the content seems like it's too hot or it's not really working,
or you want to just try something else and try to deepen their connection.
I'll have them do a mirroring exercise non-verbally.
So I'll have them, same thing, eye to eye, face to face, and look at each other
and just notice where your partner's going. going.
Notice their eyes, notice their breath, notice their nervous system,
(17:55):
those micro-moment reflections on their face and body, and see what influence
you can have over your partner in that moment in time.
And again, you can play with this. There's no wrong or right way to do this
other than we don't threaten each other.
And maybe I'll say, can you flirt with your partner non-verbally with your face, your eyes?
Can you create safety for them? If they're looking vulnerable or they're looking
(18:17):
emotional or looking distressed in any way, can you create safety?
Can you send them a container or space that's big enough for whatever they have
going on in their body? Can you send them love non-verbally?
Can you send them, I get you, I've got you. And can you reflect back? I hear you. Thank you.
I feel safe and seen by you. There's all kinds of ways.
(18:38):
So I just want to open the door to this idea of mirroring exercise,
play with it, make it your own. Again, And you can Google the way the amalgam therapy lays it out.
You can use some of the techniques I've given you here. But this is supposed
to be a space to practice this technique of active listening and see what it
feels like for you and see if any of these techniques, any of these skills or,
anything you learned in this exercise will help your communication,
(19:01):
help deepen your relationship with your partner. I hope this has helped for a few guys.
I hope this new way of communicating, understanding, listening,
paying attention, reflecting each each other can be a real beginning space for
mutual respect, understanding, intimacy, connection in your relationship.
I'd love to hear your feedback. Let me know how it goes.
(19:22):
And I'm looking forward to meeting you right back here with the next episode
in our mini series on communication.
Thanks so much for joining us. We're really glad you're here with us on this
journey. The best way to support this podcast is to subscribe and give it a
five-star review. See you next time.
(19:44):
Music.
Shoes i said a thousand times and i'll say it again empathy is
not putting yourself in someone else's shoes empathy is hearing
their point of view from their point of view so i
hear you say from your point of view your experience is this and
i can validate for you i understand for you how that feels that is empathy and
good communication expresses that and then through that we build trust we're
(00:22):
able to be more vulnerable with each other which again creates connection we
are able to resolve conflict and talk about hard topics engage in healthy healthy
healthy conversations that we don't disagree.
We can disagree with each other a lot, actually, and still have healthy conversations
and healthy. And there's novelty built in there.
It's not always, we're not always meant to agree. We know this in a relationship.
You know, if we've been married for a period of time, we know that we're not
(00:42):
always going to agree and it creates, you know, interest.
It creates a different point of view. It grows us. It allows us to evolve and
grow. Welcome to the Relationship Psychologist Podcast.
Tune in every Thursday to learn with us as we interview experts and laugh with
us as we banter about friendship and take action of implementing the tools and
advice we provide to you each week to level up your personal relationships.
I'm Dana Mullen. And I'm Alicia Hinger. We are soul sisters,
(01:06):
besties, and psychologists on a mission to change the culture of relationships.
Your journey to becoming more supported and connected starts right now.
Okay, hello and welcome to this mini-series on communication for couples, for relationships.
I kind of want to do this little mini series for a number of reasons.
(01:28):
I'm not going to say it's the number one reason, but it's definitely amongst
the top reasons that couples come into my office and Dana's office looking for
support in their relationship.
So there's many reasons that communication breaks down. I also want to say this.
People come in and that's what they cite is their communication is the reason
that they're here to see me.
(01:49):
But often it's not actually the reason. They're just not sure what the reason is.
So there's a thing behind the thing behind the thing. Like I always say,
people come in and they say, you know, we're here and asking what their kind
of what their goals are for therapy.
And they'll say, if we just would have better communication out there,
our relationship would be great.
And that could be true. But it's also not always true.
There's many reasons that communication
breaks down and many reasons why relationships are breaking down.
(02:11):
For example, there may be, you know, unresolved trust, for example.
There might be a difference of perceptions, which happens all the time.
We all think that we have, we come in with this idea that we see the same thing
or experience the same thing, the same.
And of course, we all know that we don't. There is a point of view that we have that's unique.
And then our perception, of course, is affected by every single belief,
(02:31):
you know, emotion, experience, memory, et cetera, et cetera.
We have up until that very moment in time.
But what I will say is that I observe in my office quite often that people come
in and I actually ask them initially to look at each other often and explain
to each other what what they're doing in my office, what they hope to gain from
being in therapy, for example.
(02:51):
And I'm watching for lots of things. But of course, I came for their ability
to communicate clearly and actually receive their partner's information or be
influenced by their partner's information in some way.
And we all know what it feels like to be misunderstood or not heard or not validated.
We all know that feeling.
I also want to assume that the person that's listening on purpose.
(03:14):
There's so many reasons that get in the way of their own inability to pay attention,
their inability to repeat back what we're saying, their own inability to actively
listen or engage in a conversation.
People ask for help with their communication styles for so many reasons,
or the communication skills, I should say, for so many reasons.
We all know that communication is a fundamental, very important part of any relationship.
(03:38):
Even with the animals that I care for on my acreage, they communicate all the
time. And it's my job to pay attention to what they're communicating,
their cues, their tells, to understand what's happening for them.
So with the human animals that I work with, we misunderstand communication for many, many reasons.
People have a hard time expressing their emotions maybe
they didn't learn or have a safe place to express emotions in
(03:59):
the past and so therefore they keep them locked up people are
worried about creating conflict and so they avoid communication or
avoid hard topics everyone has different communication styles
we all bring our past experiences of course to every
encounter and so we had an experience with communication
in the past where we were shut down or we were told we were
too much or we were too emotional or we weren't allowed to
(04:20):
communicate or we're you know know for a thousand reasons we can
be poor communicators lack of communication of course
leads to breakdown in relationship it leads to trust issues
it leads to insecurity and then
we're unable to process or talk about or work or grow on
things that are important to us like our shared dreams and goals like growing
our individual sense of self and growing our relationship like taking care of
(04:42):
our health our mental health our physical health our emotional health like growing
our intimacy like growing our trust parenting financial i mean communication
of of course, affects all of these areas of our relationship.
So we know what it feels like. I think we all can agree. We know what it feels
like to not be understood and to have poor communication for a thousand reasons.
I'm not going to go into details in this podcast of all the reasons why communication breaks down.
(05:04):
What I want to do is just invite you to assess for yourself why yours might
be breaking down or what concerns may be affecting your relationship.
But what I want to do is just give you some skills and some things to try in
these next couple of podcasts that will hopefully influence you and your relationship
in a positive way to you try different ways to communicate.
It's not a one size fits all. Like I say all the time, if this is a concern,
(05:26):
seek help, seek somebody else to help you navigate this world of communication.
Because when it goes well, and it can create connection, understanding,
the magic, remember what it feels like to feel validated when someone actually hears you? People.
Shoes. I've said a thousand times and I'll say it again. Empathy is not putting
yourself in someone else's shoes.
Empathy is hearing their point of view from their point of view.
(05:48):
So I hear you say from your point of view, your experience is this,
and I can validate for you. I understand for you how that feels.
That is empathy and good communication expresses that.
And then through that, we build trust. We're able to be more vulnerable with
each other, which again, creates connection.
We are able to resolve conflict and talk about hard topics, engage engage in
healthy, healthy conversations that we don't disagree, we can disagree with
(06:10):
each other a lot, actually, and still have healthy conversations and healthy,
and there's novelty built in there.
It's not always, we're not always meant to agree. We know this in a relationship.
You know, if we've been married for a period of time, we know that we're not always going to agree.
And it creates, you know, interest, it creates a different point of view,
it grows us, it allows us to evolve and grow.
But having good communication and a container of that creates an emotional safety
(06:31):
in a space where we can feel vulnerable enough to communicate our our truth.
So there's a thousand reasons, you know, that the gratitude and appreciation
when couples have that moment in my office where they're finally listening to
each other and hearing each other, I can see it. I can feel the air shift in their room.
There's a gratitude and appreciation and a connection and a vulnerability that
happens where they, for the first time, maybe ever feel like they've been heard, like truly heard.
(06:55):
So that's my goal. That's just kind of what I want to do this little podcast
here is just to give you some, again, just some skills.
This is not a one size fits all for sure, which is why I want to give you a
couple of different ways to navigate negate communication.
Again, being mindful that there are so many reasons why it breaks down.
This is not a blame game. This is a default system. We're often defaulting to old patterns.
And so again, I invite you to assess what patterns you're bringing to the table
(07:19):
and be compassionate about the patterns your partner might be bringing to the
table because of maybe old blueprints,
because of stress in their life, maybe financial strains or parenting strains
or or fears, or overload,
or past trauma, past experiences, et cetera.
Okay, so one of the things I do quite often in my office, if I see individuals
(07:39):
sitting in their chairs and their communication is not working,
of course, I'm watching for, again, all those cues I mentioned at the beginning.
I'm watching for the verbal, the non-verbals, the body language,
the way they breathe, the way they hold their face, the way they smile,
the way they move their fingers and legs, the way they hold their breath,
the sound of their voice, the tone of their voice, the prosody of their voice.
(08:00):
There's so many things they're paying attention to. and I see breakdowns what
I have them do is really slow it down and this exercise that
I try with them it's going to feel like a pain in the ass I'm not going to lie
this first exercise is going to feel like a bit of a pain in the ass but the reason
I do it is I want people to slow down their communication to
pay attention to at least some of those if not all of those things I just mentioned
so I invite you to try this with your partner I'm going to call this this is
(08:23):
called a I call it verbatim exercise if it sounds familiar if you've done any
imago therapy it's a very similar type of therapy that's done in Imago,
which is the work of Harville Hendricks and Helen Hunt,
which are the founders of Imago Relationship Therapy.
I'm not Imago trained, so this is kind of my version of an active listening skill.
But if you've done Imago therapy, this is probably going to sound very familiar to you.
(08:46):
So I have them first look at each other. So face your partner eye to eye,
face to face, not side to side, not sitting on a couch beside each other.
If you're sitting on a couch, literally turn your bodies and face each other.
Better yet, sit on two chairs where you're face-to-face, eye-to-eye.
So don't do this in the car.
That would not be the right time to do this exercise in the car.
Face-to-face, eye-to-eye. Okay.
(09:07):
And I want you to pause first and just, even if you want to close your eyes
for a second, and just start to regulate. Feel your own body.
What's your heart rate doing? What's your breathing doing? What are your senses picking up on? Okay.
And just take a second to regulate your own system. Because we know when we
get dysregulated or get stressed, it's hard to communicate.
When I get excited or I get emotional, my words, as you guys all know,
(09:29):
get really fast and mumble jumble together.
So take a second, take a few deep breaths if you want, and then really pause
and think, what is the goal?
What is the intent of this communication? What is the intent of this dialogue?
And of course, the intent, if you're doing it with me, is to practice.
We're just doing a practice something. thing.
But the intent when we take this into real life is I really want my partner
(09:49):
to hear what I have to say, or I really want to understand what my partner is
going to say to me that I'm not understanding.
And let me just say this too. You don't have to agree. It's not the intent is
to agree with your partner or the intent isn't even often to fully appreciate
the content. And I'm going to say that here's the truth.
My partner, as many of you know, loves sport and me and all sports,
but especially football, NFL, American football.
(10:12):
And so when he comes home and he's describing and he's so excited and animated about
trades that are happening in you know his sport world i will
never remember the content for the people's names very rarely i
remember a name unless it's someone like tom brady or somebody i don't
remember the names of who's getting traded or what but his animation i'm paying
attention to he's excited about something so i'm watching his non-verbals and
i'm repeating back sounds like that was good oh that sounds like a bad trade
(10:33):
oh sounds like that's going to hurt your team i'm repeating back what i'm seeing
in his in his non-verbals and in his expressions not the content but we're going
to get there that's going to step you. I digress. Okay.
So face-to-face, eye-to-eye, take a second, regulate yourself.
Ask yourself what your intentions are and then create a container that we are
here to listen to each other and is safe, secure.
(10:55):
We are each other's partners. I have your back. We're in this together. We are teammates.
So start with that intention. Okay. And then I want you to take turns.
So the first person that's going to speak, we're going to call them the speaker.
One's going to speak. One's going to listen. And the person speaking,
I really want the person speaking to to also pay attention to the listening
partner's non-verbals.
(11:16):
Because the goal of this initially, if I see partners struggling,
I have them actually repeat back verbatim what their partner said.
And again, there's a reason for that. When I say verbatim, the reason I'm doing
that is to slow down the experience so they can actually see how much capacity
they have to listen to their partner.
I'm also interrupting that rebuttal thing we have. You know that thing we do
when we're listening to our partner or someone talk and we're already in our
(11:36):
head rebuttaling what we're going to say next.
We're already trying to formulate our own arguments, but we're not actually
listening to the person speaking because we're in our own heads.
So when I do the verbatim exercise, I'm interrupting those patterns.
So start with that. Have your partner speak, have the speaker speak and the
listening partner is going to listen and when they've heard enough that they
can't verbatim back what the other person said, just say stop.
(11:57):
So what I've heard you say so far is and then word for word,
don't ad lib, don't paraphrase, don't add in your own feelings.
I know this is so hard because you want to say back what you're thinking or
your experience or your perception.
This is not the time or the place. we're going to get there i promise i want
you to just pause and verbatim back what your partner said
word for word and if
(12:17):
your partner said too many words you don't understand or you forgot just apologize
sorry can you say that again can you repeat sorry i didn't quite understand
or i didn't quite hear i didn't quite get all of that can you say that again
and then the speaker says it again you say okay what i've heard you say so far
is this yes okay continue and you keep doing that back and forth until the speaker
is finished everything that they need to say.
And at the end of that, I'll often have the partner that's listening,
(12:40):
then paraphrase back, not yet, give their two cents or their opinions yet,
just say, so overall, what I've heard you say is this.
And if I want to add in a little empathy, that's a great time to say,
so my understanding of your experience is this.
It sounds like you're feeling like this. That's where you can start to add in
a little bit of your own perception of their experience, not your own experience
yet. This is where validation comes into play.
(13:02):
We're trying to validate the speaker's experience from their point of view, not ours.
Reverse and again we make space here if we get it wrong for
the speaker to say no that's not quite right or no i didn't say that or no i
didn't mean to say that or maybe no i you misinterpreted me okay pause say it
again and we keep going until the speaker has exalted their story till they're
finished with their story and that they feel fully understood heard and validated that's importance.
(13:27):
And then when they're when you're done then you reverse rules and now switch
and now you now you You, the listener, gets to become the speaker and say all of your point of view.
And now the speaker becomes a listener and do the same thing.
Verbatim back what your partner is saying.
Verbatim again for those couple of reasons, like I said, interrupting that rebuttal
process and engaging in actual paying attention, listening, and assessing your
(13:50):
capacity for how much information you can retain.
And at the end of all that, paraphrase what you heard and then give empathy,
understanding, validation.
It sounds like your experience is this, that I get that right.
And you're really looking for, did I fully understand you?
Do you feel like I fully understood your understood your point of view?
This is going to create a container that hopefully feels safe, hopefully playful.
(14:13):
I know it's a pain in the ass way of communicating for now.
I don't want you to communicate this on a regular basis because that would be
really annoying, but I want you to practice this as a skill set to try to learn things differently.
So how might this sound for example? So let's say you're sitting with your partner
and let's let's pick a neutral topic like work.
Let's say your partner's having a struggle at work and they can say to you, okay.
(14:33):
Hey, my partner's name is Jay. Hey, Jay, I wanted to talk to you about work.
And I start sharing my concerns with my boss, let's say, or my coworkers or
whatever the experience is at work. And I'm watching my partner nod and smile.
But when I see their face glides over, I feel like they can't,
maybe they've heard enough.
I'll say maybe, what did you hear so far? Or vice versa, the listener saying,
hey, pause Alicia, what I've heard you say so far is this.
(14:56):
And they're telling me back what I've heard. And I'm nodding and smiling.
Yes, or no, it's not quite what I said, that or it's not what I meant. Let me try that again.
It also is making me get really clear with what I'm trying to say,
getting really clear with my thoughts, my intentions of what I'm trying to get across.
This is also a good time if you're doing this with your partner to practice
the skill of, I don't want your advice or feedback. I just want to vent about my work, for example.
(15:17):
And then when I feel heard and understood, we switch gears again.
And then I listen to your point of view. Maybe it was to do with your work.
Maybe it's to do with my boss that you actually hate or who knows.
Maybe it's to do with parenting.
The content is not important at this point. We're just practicing active listening.
That's it. For the goal of creating an atmosphere, creating a container of mutual
understanding, safety, security, empathy, connection.
(15:38):
And then when you're finished, get curious about that. Maybe you can ask yourself
some questions like, how was that for me?
How did I feel when I expressed my feelings, my thoughts, my experiences,
my perceptions without being interrupted?
How was that for me to have my partner actually engage in active nodding,
smiling, smiling, active listening to my point of view?
Did I see that reflected on their face? Were they mirroring my experience best
(16:00):
they could on their face, in their body language, in what they said back to me?
Did I notice any emotional triggers or reactions in my own body while I was being mirrored?
Did I feel appreciation and gratitude? Did I feel validation?
What was my experience about hearing my partner say back my experience in their own words?
First in the verbatim that they actually listened to me, but then when they paraphrased.
(16:20):
Did I feel understood? Did I feel feel heard?
How did I respond when they didn't get it right? How did I respond when they misunderstood?
Did I adjust calmly? Did I make adjustments appropriately? Did I get reactive?
Again, this is not judgment. This is really a chance for you to self-assess
and notice the parts of you that got triggered, the parts of you that felt validated,
the parts of you that felt connected, just noticing how this experience was for you as the speaker.
(16:46):
And then as the listener, listener, how well did I listen?
How well was I able to stay present and actually engage and mirror back my partner's experience?
Did I feel like my face, my body, my gestures were mirroring my partner's experience?
Did I and was I presenting empathy, understanding, validation?
Did I notice any nonverbal cues my partner was portraying? Did I express nonverbal
(17:11):
cues back to them? Was I able to as I confused by them.
What did I learn about my partner's inner world while I was marrying them?
Did my partner express any challenges or discomfort or concerns about how I
supported them or married them in this process?
And then together, what can we do to improve and deepen understanding,
to deepen our connection, our communication in the future?
(17:32):
I sometimes have partners too, when they're doing this exercise,
pause if the content seems like it's too hot or it's not really working,
or you want to just try something else and try to deepen their connection.
I'll have them do a mirroring exercise non-verbally.
So I'll have them, same thing, eye to eye, face to face, and look at each other
and just notice where your partner's going. going.
Notice their eyes, notice their breath, notice their nervous system,
(17:55):
those micro-moment reflections on their face and body, and see what influence
you can have over your partner in that moment in time.
And again, you can play with this. There's no wrong or right way to do this
other than we don't threaten each other.
And maybe I'll say, can you flirt with your partner non-verbally with your face, your eyes?
Can you create safety for them? If they're looking vulnerable or they're looking
(18:17):
emotional or looking distressed in any way, can you create safety?
Can you send them a container or space that's big enough for whatever they have
going on in their body? Can you send them love non-verbally?
Can you send them, I get you, I've got you. And can you reflect back? I hear you. Thank you.
I feel safe and seen by you. There's all kinds of ways.
(18:38):
So I just want to open the door to this idea of mirroring exercise,
play with it, make it your own. Again, And you can Google the way the amalgam therapy lays it out.
You can use some of the techniques I've given you here. But this is supposed
to be a space to practice this technique of active listening and see what it
feels like for you and see if any of these techniques, any of these skills or,
anything you learned in this exercise will help your communication,
(19:01):
help deepen your relationship with your partner. I hope this has helped for a few guys.
I hope this new way of communicating, understanding, listening,
paying attention, reflecting each each other can be a real beginning space for
mutual respect, understanding, intimacy, connection in your relationship.
I'd love to hear your feedback. Let me know how it goes.
(19:22):
And I'm looking forward to meeting you right back here with the next episode
in our mini series on communication.
Thanks so much for joining us. We're really glad you're here with us on this
journey. The best way to support this podcast is to subscribe and give it a
five-star review. See you next time.
(19:44):
Music.
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