Episode 2 : Diving with Sharks: Insights from Dr. Neil Hammerschlag

Episode Transcript
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You are watching the Deadfoot Diver Podcast with Curt, the Deadfoot Diver. 2 00:00:11,674.081632653 --> 00:00:20,454.081632653 Welcome to the Deadfoot Diver Podcast, where we discuss everything diving, technical diving, and also diving with disabilities and the benefits of it. 3 00:00:20,964.081632653 --> 00:00:24,44.081632653 Today, I am super excited to have on the show Dr. 4 00:00:24,54.081632653 --> 00:00:25,254.081632653 Neil Hammerschlag. 5 00:00:25,744.081632653 --> 00:00:26,84.081132653 Dr. 6 00:00:26,84.081132653 --> 00:00:31,494.081632653 Neil Hammerschlag is a world leading marine biologist with a passion for sharks. 7 00:00:32,684.081632653 --> 00:00:44,424.081632653 He also is the executive director of the Shark Research Foundation, the president of Atlantic Shark Expeditions, and also on the faculty of Black Girls Dive Foundation, just to name a few. 8 00:00:44,764.081632653 --> 00:00:45,514.081632653 Welcome Dr. 9 00:00:45,514.081632653 --> 00:00:46,224.081632653 Hammerslag. 10 00:00:46,234.081632653 --> 00:00:48,184.081632653 How's it going? Good, good. 11 00:00:48,184.081632653 --> 00:00:50,814.081632653 How are you? Awesome. 12 00:00:50,824.081632653 --> 00:00:52,934.081632653 Very excited to have you on the show today. 13 00:00:53,334.081632653 --> 00:00:59,214.081632653 One of my favorite subjects in diving and the ocean is sharks. 14 00:00:59,874.081632653 --> 00:01:04,14.081632653 So I'm super excited to have somebody like you on the show today. 15 00:01:04,54.081632653 --> 00:01:10,224.080632653 And especially with the fact of that, you actually want to get more disabled people out on your boats, diving with sharks. 16 00:01:11,64.081632653 --> 00:01:13,794.081632653 Yeah, that is, uh, uh, is a goal. 17 00:01:13,854.081632653 --> 00:01:18,204.081632653 And, um, we think it's, you know, sharks should be for everyone. 18 00:01:18,204.081632653 --> 00:01:26,694.081632653 And, uh, I love spending time in the war with sharks, and we're hoping to make our platform where we bring people out to see sharks, uh, more accessible. 19 00:01:27,354.081632653 --> 00:01:28,344.081632653 Which is awesome. 20 00:01:29,44.081632653 --> 00:01:41,544.08163265 I mean, so how did you first get into, uh, an interest in diving and then concentrating on sharks? So diving go, I mean, I. 21 00:01:43,164.08163265 --> 00:02:17,259.08163265 Since a young kid, I always loved the ocean, and I was born in South Africa, and I was fortunate enough that my family would vacation, um, off Cape Town or Durban, which is on the coast of South Africa, and I had exposure to the ocean that way, and just always wanted to be in the water and become a scuba diver, and even as a little kid, you know, Eight years old, I would strap like two liter coke bottles to my back and pretend it was a scuba tank and kick around in the swimming pool or the ocean. 22 00:02:17,859.08163265 --> 00:02:22,509.08063265 And so as soon as I could get my dive license, when I was 12 years old, I, I got that. 23 00:02:22,509.08163265 --> 00:02:23,679.08113265 And yeah. 24 00:02:23,679.08113265 --> 00:02:27,43.98163265 And then, um, when I was going to school, I was. 25 00:02:27,434.08163265 --> 00:02:46,279.08163265 Due to my love of the ocean, I, I figured I'd take a stab at marine biology and, um, so I was at the University of Toronto and, uh, I didn't, obviously there's no ocean in Ontario and, uh, so, sadly, so I had to, um, improvise a bit. 26 00:02:46,309.08163265 --> 00:02:46,529.08163265 No. 27 00:02:46,529.08163265 --> 00:02:55,789.08163265 So in my kind of winter and spring and summer breaks, I would try to get experience volunteering with different research groups to kind of get hands on experience in marine biology. 28 00:02:55,789.08163265 --> 00:03:01,289.08063265 And I happened to volunteer with an organization that was studying sharks off of California. 29 00:03:01,339.08163265 --> 00:03:05,969.08163265 And it just, I was enthralled, so excited. 30 00:03:05,969.08163265 --> 00:03:12,739.08163265 And I, I really enjoyed the experience, but also gave me, uh, Reason to learn more about sharks. 31 00:03:12,739.08163265 --> 00:03:15,39.08163265 I did a lot of reading about sharks at the time. 32 00:03:15,39.08163265 --> 00:03:24,419.08163265 And that's also when information was becoming publicly available, um, that shark populations were declining globally due to overfishing. 33 00:03:24,499.08163265 --> 00:03:33,889.08163265 And so I thought, well, you know, this is a great opportunity to kind of dedicate my own profession as, as I get into it to trying to conserve sharks. 34 00:03:33,939.08163265 --> 00:03:36,19.08163265 And so I pretty much. 35 00:03:36,244.08163265 --> 00:03:53,544.08063265 Been headfirst into trying to conserve sharks through research and education ever since then and, um, that has led to being the executive director of the Shark Research Foundation and, uh, also developing Atlantic shark expeditions, which runs out of Nova Scotia. 36 00:03:53,544.08263265 --> 00:04:00,324.08163265 It's an opportunity for the public to come and experience sharks to go cage diving with sharks out here, uh, off of Nova Scotia. 37 00:04:00,569.08163265 --> 00:04:05,384.08163265 And, uh, to help support research, I am super excited about that. 38 00:04:05,404.08163265 --> 00:04:13,64.08063265 Actually, as soon as I heard your program launched a couple of summers ago, I said to my wife, I said, I got a cage dive, especially at that time. 39 00:04:13,64.08063265 --> 00:04:18,364.08163265 I wasn't even diving again, but, uh, due to the fact that you guys do it on a hookah. 40 00:04:18,364.08163265 --> 00:04:26,89.08163265 So you don't even need a scuba certification and it has always been a dream of mine to be in a cage with a shark. 41 00:04:26,119.08163265 --> 00:04:33,559.08163265 So what's it like to be in a cage with a shark? um, well, anytime being around a shark is amazing. 42 00:04:33,569.08163265 --> 00:04:36,839.08163265 Being in the cage is a surreal experience. 43 00:04:36,839.08163265 --> 00:04:41,179.08163265 I mean, some people can spend hours down there. 44 00:04:41,219.08163265 --> 00:04:45,469.08063265 Others, you know, they get in the water and they're in this box and it's, it's intimidating. 45 00:04:45,559.08163265 --> 00:04:48,279.08163265 Um, but you know, it's, it's definitely. 46 00:04:48,934.08163265 --> 00:04:58,824.08163265 It's a bucket list thing for many people and, uh, what a super way to have like a thrill and an amazing experience while at the same time contributing to science. 47 00:04:58,834.08163265 --> 00:05:04,604.08113265 Because while we're on the boat, we are collecting scientific data and the boat essentially ecotourism funds the research. 48 00:05:04,604.08113265 --> 00:05:11,94.08163265 So, you know, if, if the boat doesn't go out, um, then we don't get to do research to help conserve sharks. 49 00:05:11,94.08163265 --> 00:05:15,424.08163265 So every person who comes on the boat, you know, they get to cage dive for science. 50 00:05:16,429.08163265 --> 00:05:17,199.08063265 That's awesome. 51 00:05:17,289.08163265 --> 00:05:52,394.08163265 So what else do you do as part of your regular duties on the day? When you're taking people out to do research, So when we, we head out off, um, uh, people will board the boat, we give a briefing, then we head out to a special location that we've selected where we think our chances of encountering a shark are high and we'll involve the guests in taking water temperatures, um, visibility measurements, and then, um, we then we'll deploy our cage, put bait in the water and wait a while. 52 00:05:52,744.08163265 --> 00:05:54,34.08163265 to bring in a shark. 53 00:05:54,94.08163265 --> 00:06:02,484.08163265 And um, during that time, we educate people about, uh, sharks, shark biology, shark research, shark conservation. 54 00:06:02,514.08163265 --> 00:06:08,14.08163265 We do like, um, trivia, shark trivia, which is kind of a way to, a fun way to educate people. 55 00:06:08,364.08063265 --> 00:06:11,254.08213265 We do show and tell while we wait for the sharks to show up. 56 00:06:11,254.08213265 --> 00:06:14,614.08163265 And once the sharks show up, we get in the water and we do rotations. 57 00:06:14,614.08163265 --> 00:06:22,24.08163265 Everyone gets to see the And we, uh, document the number of different sharks we see, the species. 58 00:06:22,339.08163265 --> 00:06:36,949.08163265 The length, the, the sex of the shark, if there's any unique identification marks, and also if the sharks are showing any signs of injury or have hook wounds or entanglements with plastic or human debris. 59 00:06:37,529.08163265 --> 00:06:45,319.08163265 And we note all that information as part of our database and we take photographs of it and all of that goes towards our, um, our data monitoring. 60 00:06:46,79.08163265 --> 00:06:46,889.08163265 that's amazing. 61 00:06:46,919.08163265 --> 00:06:52,299.08163265 Do you, do you guys also tag them on the same day when you're out there? Depends on the species. 62 00:06:52,299.08163265 --> 00:06:52,619.08163265 Yeah. 63 00:06:52,619.08163265 --> 00:06:55,739.08163265 So, um, we are doing. 64 00:06:56,339.08163265 --> 00:06:58,529.08163265 Uh, research on great white sharks. 65 00:06:58,549.08163265 --> 00:07:03,319.08163265 Um, so the species we get include blue sharks, mako sharks, porbeagles and great whites. 66 00:07:03,319.08163265 --> 00:07:06,189.08163265 And for the great whites, we are going to be, we do tag them. 67 00:07:06,249.08163265 --> 00:07:09,389.08113265 And so we have, we don't hook the sharks to tag them. 68 00:07:09,389.08113265 --> 00:07:17,819.08163265 So we are coming up with kind of innovative ways to be able to tag a free swimming shark without, without actually having to restrain them at all. 69 00:07:18,299.08163265 --> 00:08:00,259.08113265 So what, what kind of methods do you do that so that the shark doesn't get hurt when you're doing it, Yes, so we've got we're last year we focused on using a pole that in the end of a like a long pole had a Clamping system like a spring loaded clamp with the tag on that we would try to get it on the dorsal fin of the shark that proved to be very challenging because you you have to have the perfect angle and Shark has to be really close by and has to be above the surface And the biggest issue is, you know, when you have a long pole with something heavy dangling on the end, it's really hard to keep it steady and being the one who was doing the tagging, yeah, it was, that wasn't easy. 70 00:08:00,259.08113265 --> 00:08:06,159.08063265 So you could, you could basically touch the fin, but like, just be off by a centimeter and that's not good enough. 71 00:08:06,159.08163265 --> 00:08:10,349.08063265 So we're cut, we're looking at ways next year to do it differently. 72 00:08:10,949.08063265 --> 00:08:12,969.08063265 I think we might actually use kind of. 73 00:08:13,369.08163265 --> 00:08:25,519.08163265 A specialized tag that we can deploy with like a, with like a, well, I'm not going to get into it, but you'll, we'll see, let's first get the permits, but we're coming up with a pretty cool way to, to deploy it. 74 00:08:25,889.08063265 --> 00:08:27,519.08163265 I'm interested to see that. 75 00:08:27,549.08163265 --> 00:08:30,159.08163265 I would, I would love to actually help you tag a shark. 76 00:08:30,569.08163265 --> 00:08:37,164.08163265 I Uh, that'd be cool to have, have you on the boat while we tag a shark for That would be a huge bucket list thing for me. 77 00:08:37,164.08163265 --> 00:08:54,424.08063265 I mean, I've, first of all, let's dispel some myths about sharks, like, and they're danger and because everybody, you know, I, I talked to an experienced diver the other day, actually, he's a really advanced instructor. 78 00:08:54,924.08063265 --> 00:08:58,904.08163265 And for instance, he was terrified as a child from jaws. 79 00:08:59,204.08163265 --> 00:09:00,894.08163265 So his first reaction, you're nuts. 80 00:09:00,904.08163265 --> 00:09:02,724.08163265 See, I'm not going in a cage, no way. 81 00:09:02,744.08163265 --> 00:09:05,34.08163265 And, and yet he's hand fed sharks and stuff. 82 00:09:05,494.08163265 --> 00:09:07,344.08163265 But to put them in a cage, forget it. 83 00:09:09,179.08163265 --> 00:09:11,649.08063265 Well, I think about being in the cage, I think it's. 84 00:09:11,729.18163265 --> 00:09:24,709.08163265 It's a really easy way to observe sharks because, you know, you don't even have to really know how to swim because you're, you're contained, right? So I think a lot of people are scared. 85 00:09:25,349.08163265 --> 00:09:39,799.08163265 That, you know, what they've seen in some movies, not just Jaws, but that the cage could somehow get dislodged from the boat and drop to the bottom of the ocean, which is, is not going to happen, um, only in the movies, you know, our cage is, is connected to the boat. 86 00:09:39,879.08163265 --> 00:09:45,779.08163265 Um, I mean, it's literally mounted to the boat, the top of the cage actually sticks out of the surface of the water. 87 00:09:45,779.08163265 --> 00:09:47,999.08163265 It's about a foot above the water. 88 00:09:47,999.08163265 --> 00:09:51,259.08163265 So you could be in the cage and if you wanted to lift your head out. 89 00:09:51,514.08163265 --> 00:09:52,614.08163265 Um, of the water. 90 00:09:52,614.08163265 --> 00:09:56,874.08163265 So we, we communicate with everyone who's in the cage, you know, because they can lift their head out. 91 00:09:56,884.08163265 --> 00:10:03,354.08063265 We can say, Hey, how are you doing? And then they kind of crouch down and, and have the experience, the shark swing by. 92 00:10:03,364.08163265 --> 00:10:06,164.08163265 So it's not, it's not a scary experience. 93 00:10:06,164.08163265 --> 00:10:14,94.08163265 I mean, the biggest, if anything, you know, if the boat is obviously a moving platform, you got the, Oh, the waves ocean. 94 00:10:14,104.08163265 --> 00:10:15,864.08163265 So you could. 95 00:10:16,384.08163265 --> 00:10:23,984.08163265 You know, bang into the side of the cage, but that's the biggest risk you face is actually, you know, making contact with the cage not has nothing to do with the shark. 96 00:10:23,984.08163265 --> 00:10:27,504.08113265 And it's certainly nothing to do with the cage coming loose or anything like that. 97 00:10:27,504.08113265 --> 00:10:29,244.08163265 It's a super safe experience. 98 00:10:29,314.08163265 --> 00:10:32,284.08163265 Um, and it's, it's definitely a surreal one. 99 00:10:33,84.08163265 --> 00:10:34,574.08163265 Well, that that's good to know. 100 00:10:34,604.08163265 --> 00:10:42,4.08063265 Cause I, I mean, my, my wife, as much as she promotes me diving, I'm sure would like me to come back alive from doing a cage dive. 101 00:10:42,664.08163265 --> 00:10:46,934.08163265 Yeah, we try to, we try to bring most of the passengers back, at least the ones we like. 102 00:10:47,404.08163265 --> 00:10:48,634.08163265 Oh, well, that's good. 103 00:10:48,634.08163265 --> 00:10:50,544.08113265 So I'll remember to Not stay your bad side. 104 00:10:50,544.08113265 --> 00:10:57,194.08163265 So I don't become shark bait because with my leg and stuff, I'll look like an injured fish anyway. 105 00:10:57,454.08163265 --> 00:11:14,244.08163265 So, Yeah, well, that's the nice thing in the cage, they won't see, they don't see you, they just see the, the shape of the cage, to be honest, so it's like, as long as you stay within that cage, you're, so what, when you do your tours, you run out of two locations. 106 00:11:14,489.08163265 --> 00:11:16,979.08163265 To get different species of, uh, sharks. 107 00:11:16,979.08163265 --> 00:11:17,394.08163265 Right? Yeah. 108 00:11:17,659.08163265 --> 00:11:29,334.08163265 So what do you want to explain that and which sharks you're likely to encounter and when Yeah, so this next year Uh, we're going to be focusing from July 1st to Labor Day. 109 00:11:29,344.08163265 --> 00:11:30,664.08163265 So just the beginning of September. 110 00:11:30,664.08163265 --> 00:11:39,364.08163265 July 1st to September 1st, maybe even September 8th, we're going to focus off of the coast of Halifax, or we're going to leave. 111 00:11:39,834.08163265 --> 00:11:45,334.08163265 Uh, off a place called Sambro, which is a nice kind of quaint fishing village. 112 00:11:45,354.08163265 --> 00:11:49,254.08163265 There's not much going on there, um, because it is, uh, a fishing village. 113 00:11:49,784.08063265 --> 00:11:56,494.08063265 Um, we're gonna leave from a dock there, where it's a, it's a relatively short run to get to offshore waters. 114 00:11:57,129.08163265 --> 00:12:01,649.08163265 And we'll be targeting their Blue Sharks, Mako Sharks, and Porbeagles. 115 00:12:01,669.18163265 --> 00:12:10,119.08163265 The most common we're going to probably encounter is the Blue Shark, which is an amazing shark to have around the cage because they are very curious. 116 00:12:10,159.08163265 --> 00:12:13,160.91799629 And, you know, once you get the, the Um, the water is, is kind of crystal clear. 117 00:12:13,160.91799629 --> 00:12:14,97.65435993 It's, you know, you can get blue sharks around. 118 00:12:14,97.65435993 --> 00:12:18,714.08163265 They, they'll probably stick around and sometimes they come in, in multiple sharks at a time. 119 00:12:18,714.08163265 --> 00:12:24,404.08063265 So at one point, you know, this year we had four blue sharks at the same time around the cage, which is, which is amazing. 120 00:12:25,274.08163265 --> 00:12:28,614.08113265 Um, the water is, is kind of crystal clear. 121 00:12:28,614.08113265 --> 00:12:29,884.08163265 It's, you know, you can get. 122 00:12:30,289.08163265 --> 00:12:40,179.08163265 I mean, for this type of offshore water, yeah, you could easily 50 feet, um, clear and you have, you know, blue sharks, other pelagics. 123 00:12:40,189.08163265 --> 00:12:43,979.08163265 You have mako sharks, which is exciting. 124 00:12:43,979.08163265 --> 00:12:48,29.08063265 Porbeagles, relatively rare, but they'll come in, but they don't stick around. 125 00:12:48,29.08163265 --> 00:12:52,79.08063265 They generally come in hot and they take a look around and then they leave. 126 00:12:52,819.08063265 --> 00:13:02,754.08163265 Uh, but that's the, these are pelagic animals that, uh, you know, not many people get to, to, uh, So it's a lot of fun and excitement. 127 00:13:03,744.08163265 --> 00:13:14,904.08063265 Then for kind of the later end of September and all of October, we're going to shift gears to the Southern tip of Nova Scotia near Yarmouth. 128 00:13:15,74.08163265 --> 00:13:21,834.08163265 So it's, it's another kind of fishing air village that we're, we're going to working out of called, uh, lower West Pubnico. 129 00:13:22,529.08163265 --> 00:13:25,679.08163265 And there we're going to focus on, uh, the great white shark. 130 00:13:26,149.08163265 --> 00:13:31,79.08163265 Um, we had success seeing them this past year at that time. 131 00:13:31,159.08163265 --> 00:13:34,629.08163265 And the water is definitely murkier. 132 00:13:34,799.08163265 --> 00:13:42,139.08063265 Um, so it's, it's, it's definitely the visibility, you know, probably averages around 10 feet. 133 00:13:42,259.08163265 --> 00:13:45,239.08163265 So our goal is to get the shark super close within 10 feet. 134 00:13:45,459.08163265 --> 00:13:48,849.08163265 So, uh, that's not an would be amazing with a great white. 135 00:13:49,179.08163265 --> 00:14:01,169.08163265 Yeah, so we've got to get the, so, you know, we're trying to get that shark close, uh, with the goal of getting, you know, that is, uh, those experience are, you know, part of the research. 136 00:14:01,169.08163265 --> 00:14:06,479.08163265 The research is permitted by Department of Fisheries and Oceans Species at Risk. 137 00:14:06,709.08163265 --> 00:14:19,799.08163266 Um, because the sharks in Canada are protected and we get to interact with them as part of the research and people from the public get to experience that research, learn from the researchers and see the research. 138 00:14:20,199.08163266 --> 00:14:28,399.08063266 Plus they contribute because any of the photos that the guests get of the great whites we use to actually build a photo catalog and ID database. 139 00:14:28,919.08163265 --> 00:14:29,519.08163265 Oh, awesome. 140 00:14:29,844.08163266 --> 00:14:40,854.08063266 yeah, we work with our colleagues in, uh, collaborate with colleagues in, um, New England out of Cape Cod who maintain a database of sharks, great whites. 141 00:14:40,854.08163266 --> 00:14:43,464.08163266 They've been seeing there, they've ID'd a whole bunch of them. 142 00:14:43,484.08063266 --> 00:14:49,294.08163266 And so we send our photos to them and we cross reference it against their ID database. 143 00:14:49,294.08163266 --> 00:14:54,104.08163266 And we look to see, you know, if it's the same sharks, different sharks and any, uh, seasonality. 144 00:14:54,104.08163266 --> 00:14:57,874.08163266 And for example, I mean, last. 145 00:14:58,834.08163266 --> 00:15:09,4.08163266 Last year, our analysis showed that, you know, all of the great whites that we get off of Nova Scotia, very few of them are actually the same ones that are being seen off Cape Cod. 146 00:15:09,4.08163266 --> 00:15:14,414.08113266 So it looks like, um, maybe we have some, some sharks that visit us that don't visit Cape Cod. 147 00:15:14,414.08113266 --> 00:15:15,244.08063266 So it's kind of cool. 148 00:15:15,919.08163265 --> 00:15:16,619.08163265 Hi, everyone. 149 00:15:16,619.08163265 --> 00:15:18,669.08163265 Thanks for tuning into the Deadfoot Diver. 150 00:15:19,39.08163265 --> 00:15:21,889.08163265 Subscribe and share your support means the world to me. 151 00:15:22,429.08163265 --> 00:15:26,689.08163265 If you'd like to contribute directly, you can do so at the link in the description at buymeacoffee. 152 00:15:27,329.08163265 --> 00:15:41,139.08163265 com slash deadfoot diver, every donation helps me work towards earning my adaptive dive buddy certification, travel costs to help me assist other adaptive divers and covering further training and equipment costs. 153 00:15:41,434.08163265 --> 00:15:44,224.08163265 Bringing you on even more exciting adventures. 154 00:15:45,634.08163265 --> 00:15:54,664.08163265 Don't forget to check out my guest links in the description and remember grab an adventure and live and don't ever let a disability. 155 00:15:54,664.08163265 --> 00:15:55,474.08163265 Keep you down. 156 00:15:55,752.08163265 --> 00:15:57,392.08163265 Wow, that's amazing. 157 00:15:57,392.08163265 --> 00:15:57,812.08163265 So. 158 00:15:58,272.08163265 --> 00:16:11,522.08163266 When, when you were, uh, starting Atlantic Shark Expeditions, did you have a lot of trouble getting permits to be able to do this type of thing? Uh, for the for the white sharks. 159 00:16:11,622.08163266 --> 00:16:25,912.08163266 Yeah, I mean, it's not hard to get permits in the sense that you obviously could, you know, if you want to work with the species at risk, you know, you need to demonstrate that the activities you're going to do is actually going to support their survival and conservation. 160 00:16:25,922.08063266 --> 00:16:28,422.08063266 So, um, I think. 161 00:16:28,737.08163266 --> 00:16:37,937.08163266 The, the bigger issue for us was actually how are what we were doing was being, um, communicated to the public. 162 00:16:37,947.08163266 --> 00:16:40,347.0806327 There are some people who were. 163 00:16:41,912.0816327 --> 00:16:59,502.0816327 raising like an alarmist bell that somehow doing this research on the animals and bringing people with to see the sharks and experiencing it would somehow, you know, turn these sharks into man eaters that would somehow end up threatening people who are going in the water. 164 00:17:00,72.0816327 --> 00:17:04,582.0816327 But, you know, that is, there's no science to demonstrate that. 165 00:17:04,582.0816327 --> 00:17:06,592.0816327 And it's not like we're out there feeding the sharks. 166 00:17:07,22.0816327 --> 00:17:08,652.0806327 You can't create a shark location. 167 00:17:08,652.0816327 --> 00:17:10,222.0816327 You've got to go where the sharks already are. 168 00:17:10,292.0816327 --> 00:17:13,752.0806327 And the sharks are out there to eat seals and do whatever they're doing. 169 00:17:13,752.0816327 --> 00:17:15,402.0806327 We're just hoping to kind of. 170 00:17:16,97.0816327 --> 00:17:25,197.0816327 You know, keep an eye out on them, you know, trying to spy on them, uh, when they're out there doing whatever they're doing and they're going to do it whether or not we're there or not. 171 00:17:26,352.0816327 --> 00:17:27,812.0806327 No, that's, that's true. 172 00:17:27,812.0816327 --> 00:17:36,92.0806327 I mean, I've actually, uh, when you guys first started, I'd actually talked to people at Nova Scotia because I have relatives out there. 173 00:17:36,652.0806327 --> 00:17:45,852.0816327 And, um, and some of them were saying that, You know, they were worried because they were worried that all of a sudden there's going to be a lot more great white sharks around and stuff like that. 174 00:17:46,82.0816327 --> 00:17:48,92.0816327 There's going to be more shark attacks. 175 00:17:50,827.0816327 --> 00:18:11,407.0816327 Yeah, that's, what do you have to say to these people? well, I think, you know, if they have the time to listen and want to learn, you know, I can tell them what the science shows and the science shows that, you know, great whites, first of all, they're not going to, you know, They're relatively rare. 176 00:18:11,457.0816327 --> 00:18:14,647.0816327 It's actually not easy to get them to come by, even at a place where they're at. 177 00:18:14,747.0816327 --> 00:18:17,637.0816327 You know, most of the time they're just, they're doing their own thing. 178 00:18:17,637.0816327 --> 00:18:19,557.0806327 So we're just trying to get their attention with bait. 179 00:18:20,197.0806327 --> 00:18:24,167.0816327 And, um, we don't operate in a place where there's a lot of people. 180 00:18:24,167.0816327 --> 00:18:26,237.0816327 We go, we operate in a remote location. 181 00:18:27,7.0816327 --> 00:18:32,577.0806327 And if you go to a place and put bait in the water, it's not going to bring more sharks that spot. 182 00:18:32,607.0806327 --> 00:18:34,997.0816327 You've got to go to a spot that sharks already are at. 183 00:18:35,57.0816327 --> 00:18:37,237.0816327 So you're going to a spot that sharks are already there. 184 00:18:38,117.0816327 --> 00:18:39,727.0816327 And the bait we put in the water. 185 00:18:40,117.0816327 --> 00:18:47,997.0816327 Um, you know, the number of sharks that are in the water pales in comparison to the amount of bait that's being put in the water by their natural food, which is, you know, seals and and tunas and other things. 186 00:18:48,407.0816327 --> 00:18:50,447.0816327 Um, you know, they're the reason the sharks are there. 187 00:18:50,757.0816327 --> 00:18:58,7.0806327 And, you know, there's a ton of fishing activities that are going on, um, you know, that are putting a lot of bait in the water. 188 00:18:58,397.0806327 --> 00:19:01,907.0816327 Again, that we're no match for in terms of the quantity. 189 00:19:02,477.0816327 --> 00:19:06,547.0816327 And then you're not going to create the sharks to, to even associate. 190 00:19:07,482.0816327 --> 00:19:11,572.0816327 You know, a boat or people with food, unless you're feeding them constantly. 191 00:19:11,582.0816327 --> 00:19:14,942.0816327 If you, you have to feed the same individual constantly over time. 192 00:19:14,942.0816327 --> 00:19:17,872.0816327 And our goal is that's not what we're doing. 193 00:19:17,882.0816327 --> 00:19:24,202.0816327 You know, we, we try not to feed the sharks, uh, every now and then they might steal a bait, but that's certainly not the intention. 194 00:19:24,352.0816327 --> 00:19:35,572.0816327 Um, and you know, also what science shows is from South Africa and Australia is that basically even where there are places where there are. 195 00:19:36,17.0816327 --> 00:19:42,327.0816327 And I think that's one of the things about our great white, uh, ecotourism going on is that these sharks don't seem to become habituated. 196 00:19:42,877.0816327 --> 00:19:51,477.0816327 Um, you know, especially if you, if you're responsible and are out there, you know, feeding them and, um, you know, that's so. 197 00:19:51,927.0816327 --> 00:19:55,877.0816327 And, you know, we're out there, we're trying to study what these sharks are doing. 198 00:19:56,447.0816327 --> 00:20:01,697.0816327 And I think we can actually be a benefit to the community because we can tell them, you know, where. 199 00:20:02,337.0816327 --> 00:20:04,687.0816327 Sharks are when and where sharks are around. 200 00:20:04,757.0816327 --> 00:20:17,317.0816327 And I think that provides people with an awareness so they can make choices of how they want to, what they want to do in the water, because there's a lot of people that don't even know that there's great white sharks, um, patrolling the, you know, some of the beaches of Nova Scotia. 201 00:20:17,317.0816327 --> 00:20:21,447.0816327 And so I think creating that awareness for people is a very important way to help keep them safe. 202 00:20:22,122.0816327 --> 00:20:23,932.0806327 I have, I have actually heard that. 203 00:20:23,962.0816327 --> 00:20:29,462.0816327 I mean, I, my, my wife is like, yeah, you make sure you bring all your dive gear when we go to Nova Scotia. 204 00:20:29,462.0816327 --> 00:20:35,282.0816327 And then she goes to tell me, oh yeah, by the way, there's been some great spotted right off her dad's property. 205 00:20:35,282.0816327 --> 00:20:35,512.0816327 Almost. 206 00:20:37,867.0816327 --> 00:20:39,157.0816327 Exactly, exactly. 207 00:20:39,157.0816327 --> 00:21:02,697.0816327 And, but they know there's a lot of people who don't know, and so important to educate people and also to understand what, you know, what, what are the types of sharks that are here? How big are they? You know, what are they here trying to do? What are the temperatures they like? You know, what are the depths they like? Um, you know, what times of year are they here? When is, when are they most abundant? Because that type of information, not only is important for conserving the sharks, but also if. 208 00:21:03,312.0816327 --> 00:21:18,352.0816326 If you're a human water user and you want to limit your exposure to these sharks, um, then you might not want to go during peak periods when the sharks are around or, you know, the type, certain temperatures or things like that, or places that they really like to spend time at. 209 00:21:18,927.0816327 --> 00:21:33,472.0806326 so do you, do you guys post any of your stuff on a specific website to track the sharks or so that people can actually view and see like what the shark activity in an area is, So we haven't successfully tagged, uh, any sharks yet. 210 00:21:33,482.0806326 --> 00:21:37,242.0816326 Like I said, this past year we weren't able to get any tags out. 211 00:21:37,322.0816326 --> 00:21:38,222.0816326 It was a challenge. 212 00:21:38,222.0816326 --> 00:21:49,482.0816326 So hopefully next year we will able to, and we'll certainly, um, You know, we won't have like an at least not yet have an app or anything like that where we can track them in real time. 213 00:21:49,982.0816326 --> 00:22:01,62.0816326 But I think we'll try to post, you know, updates daily of on our social media of where any sharks that we tagged are at so that people can can learn from that for sure. 214 00:22:02,357.0816327 --> 00:22:03,257.0816327 which is amazing. 215 00:22:03,427.0806327 --> 00:22:09,352.0806326 So And it's important because it engages people like all the time, all the groups that do that type of activity. 216 00:22:09,352.0806326 --> 00:22:12,962.0816326 It's, it's really engaging and And it creates awareness and knowledge. 217 00:22:13,987.0816327 --> 00:22:15,727.0806327 no, I, I completely agree. 218 00:22:15,727.0816327 --> 00:22:21,857.0816327 And I mean, sharks are, have been endangered for years due to overfishing and, and stuff like that. 219 00:22:21,927.0816327 --> 00:22:27,532.0816326 Is shark finning still a big problem? Shark finning is still a big problem. 220 00:22:27,632.0816326 --> 00:22:32,112.0811326 Not in, you know, Canada or the United States, where it's illegal. 221 00:22:32,112.0811326 --> 00:22:38,362.0806326 I mean, many places shark finning is becoming more, becoming banned, which is great. 222 00:22:39,382.0816326 --> 00:22:40,682.0806326 But shark finning. 223 00:22:41,17.0816326 --> 00:22:45,277.0816326 doesn't prevent sharks from being killed, it just prevents the way that they're being killed. 224 00:22:45,287.0816326 --> 00:22:51,436.9816326 You know, shark finning, the definition of shark finning is not removing shark fins or selling shark fins. 225 00:22:51,437.0816326 --> 00:23:00,227.0816326 Shark finning is where you essentially, you know, catch a shark at sea, remove the fins at sea, and dump the body back in the water at sea. 226 00:23:00,887.0816326 --> 00:23:10,172.0816326 It's not illegal, for example, in many places where finning is illegal, you know, places where there are finning bans where you can't do that. 227 00:23:10,682.0816326 --> 00:23:18,902.0816326 Many of those places you still can capture the shark at sea, bring the shark back to shore, and then cut off the fins at shore and discard the body. 228 00:23:19,452.0816326 --> 00:23:21,92.0816326 So that's not called finning. 229 00:23:21,102.0816326 --> 00:23:21,452.0816326 Yeah. 230 00:23:21,732.0806326 --> 00:23:25,972.0806326 So finning is the definition of finning involves dumping the rest of the body at sea. 231 00:23:25,972.0806326 --> 00:23:29,512.0816326 So if you bring the body back to shore, that's not finning. 232 00:23:29,992.0816326 --> 00:23:38,517.0816326 So even places that have where finning is illegal, you can still, you know, essentially bring the shark back to shore and remove the fins. 233 00:23:38,517.0816326 --> 00:23:46,167.0816326 And it turns out that is also now created a bit of a demand for inadvertently for shark meat. 234 00:23:46,447.0816326 --> 00:23:56,217.0806326 So again, it's not, it's banning shark finning is not banning shark killing or, you know, what it's doing is it's the way the sharks are, are being killed. 235 00:23:56,217.0816326 --> 00:23:58,467.0816326 So it, as a result. 236 00:23:59,57.0816326 --> 00:24:09,137.0806326 It looks like, you know, in the last decade, the number of sharks that are being removed from the oceans hasn't gone down shark mortality has not gone down really. 237 00:24:09,567.0816326 --> 00:24:14,467.0816326 It's about the same number of overall number of sharks that are being killed globally. 238 00:24:15,307.0816326 --> 00:24:16,707.0816326 Um, and that's because. 239 00:24:17,212.0816326 --> 00:24:52,357.0816326 Now there's a, in addition to fins, there's also demand for shark meat, um, and, but there is hope that it looks like areas that have very strong protections, like where marine protected areas that, uh, you know, uh, where fishing or, uh, shark fishing is illegal, um, it is supporting shark recovery in those places, um, also places like United States that have very stringent regulations on, uh, shark fishing. 240 00:24:52,387.0816326 --> 00:24:54,767.0816326 It seems like those populations are faring better. 241 00:24:54,777.0816326 --> 00:25:03,587.0806326 And in some cases recovering compared to other areas where, you know, there are no policies in place to protect sharks or regulate the catch of sharks. 242 00:25:04,367.0816327 --> 00:25:05,467.0816327 Which is unfortunate. 243 00:25:05,477.0816327 --> 00:25:09,337.0816327 Hopefully they're these countries are going to tighten up their laws a bit. 244 00:25:09,507.0816327 --> 00:25:15,987.0816327 I mean, I've I've noticed just from traveling and stuff seeing shark more on the menu for certain restaurants. 245 00:25:16,7.0806327 --> 00:25:17,437.0816327 I have not tried shark. 246 00:25:18,217.0816327 --> 00:25:19,452.0816326 Um, neither have I. 247 00:25:21,352.0816327 --> 00:25:24,412.0816327 I, I actually that's that's one sea creature. 248 00:25:24,432.0816327 --> 00:25:25,832.0816327 I will, I will not try. 249 00:25:26,182.0816327 --> 00:25:27,422.0816327 I will not eat a shark. 250 00:25:27,422.0816327 --> 00:25:34,392.0806327 I, I've eaten beluga and I've eaten narwhal from when I lived up in the Arctic, but I, I, there's no way I'll eat a shark. 251 00:25:35,62.0806327 --> 00:25:36,712.0816327 It's not going to happen. 252 00:25:36,722.0816326 --> 00:25:38,82.0816326 wouldn't be very healthy for you. 253 00:25:41,52.0816327 --> 00:26:01,482.0816327 another question I have about, uh, about sharks is all this stuff I've seen over the last like year or so about the weird shark behavior down in Florida and stuff where the sharks are basically swimming in circles going nuts and doing crazy stuff in where they're not normal. 254 00:26:02,612.0816326 --> 00:26:16,232.0806326 Yeah, that's actually very scary, because that's signs of some sort of neurological impairment, probably some sort of neurological disease that, my guess is they picked up from some toxin in the water. 255 00:26:16,292.0816326 --> 00:26:38,312.0816326 Um, so it's, that, that's a scary thing, because, um, You know, that's obviously, I mean, tells us that, you know, the, the oceans are not healthy when you, if you find fish that are behaving strange and doing circles, um, in an area, that's a sign that, you know, it's not a healthy, it's not a healthy ecosystem. 256 00:26:38,342.0806326 --> 00:26:44,672.0816326 It's not a healthy ocean, and it's probably a whole bunch of toxins that are causing some neurological diseases. 257 00:26:45,472.0816327 --> 00:26:52,932.0816327 So do you do you think a lot of that is from plastics? Because I know plastics is a huge issue in the ocean. 258 00:26:52,952.0816327 --> 00:27:02,522.0816326 And do you think that's affecting a lot a lot of them as far as their their neurological systems go? I don't think so. 259 00:27:02,542.0816326 --> 00:27:04,791.9816326 I, you know, I, I mean, I'm not an expert. 260 00:27:04,832.0816326 --> 00:27:22,862.0806326 I'm not an expert in, in what causes neurological problems, but I think, you know, there's, I think when it comes to plastics, those are going to cause more, you know, there's, there's chemicals that associate with plastics. 261 00:27:24,467.0816326 --> 00:27:36,157.0816326 That, you know, could leach into the water and, and into the sharks that might cause other issues with, with proper body functioning. 262 00:27:36,567.0816326 --> 00:27:41,997.0806326 Um, I think it's hard to say, I think the neurological things like. 263 00:27:42,337.0816326 --> 00:27:47,897.0816326 Strange circle swimming could be my guess. 264 00:27:47,907.0816326 --> 00:27:49,467.0816326 It might be a contaminant. 265 00:27:49,487.0816326 --> 00:27:51,87.0816326 That's come through the water. 266 00:27:51,87.0816326 --> 00:28:06,857.0806326 Like, for example, uh, gotten from land into the water, you know, through runoff from land, you know, some chemicals on the land that get that that when it rains, it enters the waterway or come through the rivers or the canals. 267 00:28:08,927.0816326 --> 00:28:16,817.0816326 There are toxic algae that will that potentially these toxic algae can arise from algal bloom. 268 00:28:16,817.0816326 --> 00:28:21,477.0816326 So when there's all these nutrients that can also come from land and runoff. 269 00:28:21,487.0816326 --> 00:28:32,107.0816326 So anything from nutrients, you know, excess nutrients used on farmlands or fertilizers and golf courses, things like that, when that enters the waterway. 270 00:28:32,632.0816326 --> 00:28:38,102.0816326 Uh, you know, those essentially fertilize, those nutrients turn our fertilizer for algae. 271 00:28:38,272.0816326 --> 00:28:50,682.0816326 And if you get this huge bloom of algae, some of those algae might be toxic and kind of they work their way up the food chain to the sharks and then the sharks have consumed these toxic algae and can cause some of the issues we're seeing for sure. 272 00:28:51,472.0816326 --> 00:28:53,572.0816326 Yeah, that's it's too bad. 273 00:28:53,572.0816326 --> 00:28:59,242.0816326 I mean, even in the Great Lakes, it's affecting a lot of stuff as far as pollution goes and algae getting worse. 274 00:28:59,262.0806326 --> 00:29:04,812.0816326 And every year you see more beaches closed down due to algae and all kinds of other stuff. 275 00:29:05,262.0806326 --> 00:29:06,101.9816326 Yeah, for sure. 276 00:29:07,232.0816326 --> 00:29:24,642.0816326 When you're, you're, uh, running your tours, what exactly, uh, kind of protocols do you have in place to, um, be able to help somebody who's disabled to be able to get on and off the boat and stuff and to make it easier? Yeah, I mean that's something we're thinking about and trying to evaluate. 277 00:29:24,682.0816326 --> 00:29:43,502.0816326 I think one of the big things is obviously having a, a dock that's relatively level, uh, with, um, you know, the parking lot and where there's a ramp to get to the boat and not many steps, uh, or no steps. 278 00:29:44,672.0816326 --> 00:29:52,202.0816326 And then having, you know, On the boat, you know, having there be no obstacles or clutter in the way. 279 00:29:52,202.0816326 --> 00:29:55,32.0816326 So an open deck space where there's no obstacles in the way. 280 00:29:55,642.0816326 --> 00:30:07,612.0816326 Uh, and one of the big things that we found that can be a challenge is when you're actually out at sea and the boat is moving, uh, and rocking, that can be difficult to move around. 281 00:30:08,142.0816326 --> 00:30:09,482.0816326 Um, you know, especially if you. 282 00:30:10,227.0816327 --> 00:30:18,597.0816327 You know, if you are on crutches or a cane or have any sort of mobility issues of any kind, you know, it's really hard when the floor is moving. 283 00:30:18,767.0816327 --> 00:30:26,877.0806327 Uh, and, you know, what people in the water, once you're in the water, they're fine, you know, so, and it's not hard to get slip into the water. 284 00:30:26,877.0816327 --> 00:30:30,717.0816327 You sit on a platform, you slip into the cage, getting out there's a ladder, but. 285 00:30:32,37.0816327 --> 00:30:38,937.0816327 You're so buoyant in the wetsuits, the 7 mm wetsuits, that you basically float up and then you can easily lift you out onto the platform. 286 00:30:39,557.0816327 --> 00:30:43,947.0806327 So it's really just maneuvering around the boat, even sitting in a chair and putting on a wetsuit. 287 00:30:43,977.0816327 --> 00:30:45,827.0816327 If the boat is really rocking, that's hard. 288 00:30:45,837.0816327 --> 00:30:51,797.0816327 So, What we're trying to do is put in a gyro stabilizer to actually make it. 289 00:30:51,797.0816327 --> 00:30:54,977.0816327 So even when it's a rough out, the boat will be stable and smooth. 290 00:30:55,597.0816327 --> 00:31:00,997.0816327 Um, a gyro stabilizer is essentially this huge weight that spins. 291 00:31:00,997.0816327 --> 00:31:02,487.0806327 That's it's on the boat. 292 00:31:02,487.0816327 --> 00:31:03,667.0816327 You put it in, in the hull. 293 00:31:03,687.0806327 --> 00:31:14,667.0816327 So it's kind of out of sight, but essentially it's spinning it so fast, you know, 9, 000 RPM, for example, that it counteracts the movement of the boat. 294 00:31:14,707.0816327 --> 00:31:16,117.0816327 So essentially it. 295 00:31:16,712.0816327 --> 00:31:28,182.0816327 The counteraction of this weight spinning, um, ends up making the, the boat a smooth surface and takes up as much as 95 percent of the boats roll Wow. 296 00:31:28,182.0816327 --> 00:31:29,312.0816327 That's amazing. 297 00:31:29,892.0816327 --> 00:31:37,692.0806327 I mean, because I know even for me, I mean, I have both legs, but my left leg being my weakest and I've got metal in both. 298 00:31:38,342.0816327 --> 00:31:44,82.0806327 Um, that on a boat that was when I went to Jamaica a month ago, that was my biggest challenge. 299 00:31:44,82.0816327 --> 00:31:46,622.0806327 Actually, it was getting on and off the boat. 300 00:31:46,672.0816327 --> 00:31:50,532.0816327 I didn't have too much trouble because I, but I would have to get stabilized. 301 00:31:50,532.0816327 --> 00:31:54,592.0816327 I'd have to have somebody hold my tank while I was getting in the back and get in the water. 302 00:31:54,602.0816327 --> 00:31:56,121.9816327 Once I'm in the water, you're good. 303 00:31:57,857.0816327 --> 00:31:58,744.7813599 boat's, uh, roll. 304 00:31:58,744.7813599 --> 00:31:59,40.681269 Yeah. 305 00:31:59,40.681269 --> 00:32:00,224.2809054 So, uh, exactly right. 306 00:32:00,224.2809054 --> 00:32:15,562.0816327 So we think this will be a huge, you know, huge first step to really making our, uh, shark cage diving more accessible and probably the biggest one because you're going to have where you're spending most of the day is going to be stable. 307 00:32:16,427.0816327 --> 00:32:18,692.0816327 Even in relatively rough water, Yeah. 308 00:32:18,692.0816327 --> 00:32:39,787.0816327 It's, I I mean not only that, that's gonna help people with seasickness and everything, so going to make it better for everyone that, you know, it's exactly seasickness is that even like when you think about disability, it might not be in the way that most people think about it might be, you know, getting seasickness out on a boat is, is a disability to, you know, uh, to participate in that activity. 309 00:32:40,97.0816327 --> 00:32:47,867.0816327 And so anyone who's got mobility issues or, uh, vertigo issues or inner ear issues, um, you know, or any other. 310 00:32:48,207.0816327 --> 00:32:58,177.0816327 Impairment that has, you know, messes with people's balance, um, a stabilizer is going to have a huge impact and, um, it's something that we're over the winter. 311 00:32:58,177.0816327 --> 00:33:09,892.0816327 We're going to, we're going to take care of well, I, I do hope that you, uh, manage to get this in place 'cause that's gonna open a lot of doors for a lot of people to be able to experience a shark. 312 00:33:09,952.0816327 --> 00:33:13,642.0816327 And I mean, I know, I know, for instance, my wife, she used to scuba dive. 313 00:33:13,972.0816327 --> 00:33:15,922.0816327 She can anymore because she has vertigo. 314 00:33:16,672.0816327 --> 00:33:19,312.0816327 So something like that is gonna be amazing. 315 00:33:19,312.0816327 --> 00:33:23,727.0806327 She would in a heartbeat like, okay, let's go, amazing. 316 00:33:23,727.0816327 --> 00:33:29,137.0806327 Yeah, that's exactly what we hope people that normally would have been like, Oh, no, you know, I get vertigo. 317 00:33:29,137.0806327 --> 00:33:43,12.0816327 I get seasick or, uh, you know, I've, you know, I have this, Mobility issue or I can't move around on this, you know, moving platform will now essentially be able to go that barrier is going to be removed for them. 318 00:33:43,472.0816327 --> 00:33:44,332.0816327 which is amazing. 319 00:33:44,342.0816327 --> 00:33:55,342.0806327 I actually have never heard of this gyroscope until I was talking to you on the phone the other day, and I'm super pumped because I know a lot of guys that they would probably do this in a heartbeat. 320 00:33:55,757.0816327 --> 00:33:58,877.0816327 If they had a stable platform and a stable environment for it. 321 00:33:59,787.0816327 --> 00:34:09,97.0816327 Um, so you know, it's it's it opens up such an amazing amount of opportunities for, uh, people of all types of disabilities. 322 00:34:09,107.0806327 --> 00:34:16,37.0806327 How much does something like this cost? Because this obviously is not a cheap venture to put one in. 323 00:34:17,72.0816327 --> 00:34:17,402.0816327 Yeah. 324 00:34:17,402.0816327 --> 00:34:24,332.0816327 Tens of thousands of dollars, uh, is just the equipment and then, you know, about that much to install it as well. 325 00:34:24,342.0816327 --> 00:34:33,982.0816327 So it's, uh, that's the biggest hurdle I'm applying for some grants to help offset some of those costs because they're, they're, it's not insignificant at all. 326 00:34:34,767.0816327 --> 00:34:36,467.0806327 Oh yeah, I, I, I bet. 327 00:34:36,497.0806327 --> 00:34:44,887.0816327 And then, and then on top of it, once you get it in, then you got to be able to promote people and get them convinced that, hey, I'm going to be able to do this for eight hours. 328 00:34:45,252.0816327 --> 00:34:46,2.0816327 Exactly. 329 00:34:47,92.0816327 --> 00:34:49,102.0816327 and not have a really rough day at sea. 330 00:34:49,687.0816327 --> 00:34:51,297.0816327 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 331 00:34:52,742.0816327 --> 00:35:22,52.0816327 So what, when you're diving, doing the great white stuff in the, in the fall, um, how much, what's the most number of great whites that you've had and how big? So we, you know, we, last year we did an exploratory trip, uh, to that, this new spot and the most we had in a day was that we could count, there's maybe more, but that we were able to identify and count were five different great whites on a day, which It was amazing. 332 00:35:22,52.0816327 --> 00:35:25,192.0816327 We had three at once, uh, which is pretty incredible. 333 00:35:25,982.0816327 --> 00:35:32,612.0816327 And then, um, one of the days there we even had a shark that was somewhere between 18 and 20 feet in length. 334 00:35:32,692.0816327 --> 00:35:34,652.0816327 Um, it was, 20 feet. 335 00:35:34,707.0816327 --> 00:35:34,767.0816327 Wow. 336 00:35:35,322.0816327 --> 00:35:37,2.0816327 yeah, it was unbelievable. 337 00:35:37,2.0816327 --> 00:35:39,742.0816327 I'd never seen a, a, a great white that large. 338 00:35:40,142.0816327 --> 00:35:43,92.0816327 It's, you know, it takes your breath away. 339 00:35:43,92.0816327 --> 00:35:44,492.0816327 It was beautiful. 340 00:35:44,502.0816327 --> 00:35:46,22.0816327 Big, giant, female. 341 00:35:46,32.0816327 --> 00:35:46,612.0816327 Gorgeous. 342 00:35:46,622.0816327 --> 00:35:47,232.0816327 It was awesome. 343 00:35:47,767.0816327 --> 00:35:48,97.0816327 Wow. 344 00:35:48,97.0816327 --> 00:35:49,567.0816327 That, that is incredible. 345 00:35:49,567.0816327 --> 00:35:51,907.0816327 To be that close to a 20 foot Great white. 346 00:35:51,907.0816327 --> 00:35:56,257.0816327 And that's the la you're a world shark expert and that's the largest you've been close to. 347 00:35:57,482.0816327 --> 00:36:07,702.0816327 I mean, I've been close to some big sharks, but, uh, yeah, I can't think of, I mean, definitely from the girth side, it was just, it was mind blowing, yeah. 348 00:36:08,167.0816327 --> 00:36:08,587.0816327 Wow. 349 00:36:08,737.0816327 --> 00:36:18,382.0816327 And how, how aggressive did they get around the cage at all? Like when it comes to like, or are they more curious? You know, we're luring them with bait. 350 00:36:18,382.0816327 --> 00:36:20,922.0816327 So we have a bait, uh, at the surface. 351 00:36:20,962.0816327 --> 00:36:29,202.0806327 Uh, we actually have a piece of seal blubber that we are luring the shark close to the cage and to try to get tagged and get identification marks. 352 00:36:29,962.0816327 --> 00:36:33,92.0806327 And that's what they're interested in. 353 00:36:33,182.0826327 --> 00:36:41,222.0816327 To be honest, they were not like they came as wherever you pulled that, you know, we, we don't feed them, so we'd pull it away from them, but wherever we pulled it to, they would follow. 354 00:36:41,782.0816327 --> 00:36:43,312.0816327 So we could get them real close. 355 00:36:43,342.0816327 --> 00:36:45,222.0816327 Um, but, uh, the trick is. 356 00:36:45,292.1816327 --> 00:36:56,532.0816327 Is, is getting close enough that they can, you can get your photographs, you can, you know, try to put a tag on, but obviously we don't want the sharks to like bang into the shark cage and, or anything like that. 357 00:36:56,592.0816327 --> 00:36:56,882.0816327 Yeah. 358 00:36:57,752.0816327 --> 00:37:11,742.0816327 So when, um, do you guys actually have an onboard videographer that videos, any of the dives that you can actually, for somebody who doesn't have an underwater cameras, so they can buy a video experience Yeah. 359 00:37:11,822.0816327 --> 00:37:12,112.0816327 Yep. 360 00:37:12,162.0816327 --> 00:37:13,802.0816327 That's, that is something we do. 361 00:37:13,862.0816327 --> 00:37:16,2.0816327 Um, we're going to focus. 362 00:37:16,432.0816327 --> 00:37:20,362.0816327 mostly on trying to document the sharks, um, from the trip. 363 00:37:20,362.0816327 --> 00:37:20,562.0816327 Yeah. 364 00:37:21,462.0816327 --> 00:37:21,872.0816327 awesome. 365 00:37:22,512.0816327 --> 00:37:23,452.0816327 That's amazing. 366 00:37:24,82.0806327 --> 00:37:37,82.0816327 Um, so tell me a bit about, uh, your, um, the other organizations that you're involved in, like with, The, uh, Shark Research Foundation and the Black Girls Dive, Yeah. 367 00:37:37,222.0816327 --> 00:37:42,52.0816327 So shark research foundation is a not for profit. 368 00:37:42,612.0816327 --> 00:37:48,132.0816327 It's a, it's actually a Florida registered not for profit. 369 00:37:48,202.0816327 --> 00:37:59,152.0816327 Um, but the goal of that is to increase the knowledge of sharks through science and education in order to conserve sharks. 370 00:37:59,712.0816327 --> 00:38:05,262.0816327 And, um, The, the scope of where the foundation operates is global. 371 00:38:05,312.0816327 --> 00:38:08,612.0816327 Um, there's no, it's not tied to a specific area. 372 00:38:09,252.0816327 --> 00:38:20,92.0816327 Uh, it's just goal is creating new knowledge, uh, in an, about sharks and educating people about sharks, communicating that knowledge through research and outreach and education. 373 00:38:20,642.0806327 --> 00:38:24,732.0816327 And so right now the biggest projects are. 374 00:38:25,87.0816327 --> 00:38:35,347.0816327 One, the work that we, uh, on the Great Whites in Atlantic Canada, um, Atlantic shark expeditions, the boat itself, the ecotourism boat, but it does research. 375 00:38:35,417.0816327 --> 00:38:38,407.0816327 It supports the research being done by the Shark Research Foundation. 376 00:38:38,417.0816327 --> 00:38:46,937.0816327 So, uh, the data goes to Shark Research Foundation to analyze and work up and publish and share. 377 00:38:47,577.0816327 --> 00:38:51,947.0816327 And then you have one of the other projects that we're doing is, is actually. 378 00:38:52,477.0816327 --> 00:39:05,827.0806327 Another big project is looking at biodiversity hotspots of shark, not just sharks, but a variety of different species, but with a big focus on sharks along, um, the U. 379 00:39:05,827.0816327 --> 00:39:06,47.0811327 S. 380 00:39:06,47.0811327 --> 00:39:29,447.0816327 Eastern seaboard and Caribbean and Gulf of Mexico, essentially identifying areas that are being used by multiple species through tracking, identify what threats they face in those areas, um, How they how their movements, these hotspots overlap with marine protected areas to better understand how many of these hotspots is biodiversity hotspots are protected or where they're threatened. 381 00:39:29,917.0816327 --> 00:39:34,597.0806327 And then also to, um, project how this. 382 00:39:34,832.0816327 --> 00:39:37,952.0816327 These patterns might change in the future with global warming. 383 00:39:37,952.0816327 --> 00:39:45,82.0806327 So as the oceans get warmer, we know that the sharks are likely going to move where they go, as will other species. 384 00:39:45,82.0806327 --> 00:40:08,457.0806327 So we're trying to use the data that we gather now to predict what these animals are going to do in the future and how they're going to respond to climate change and try to Um, provide these data to policy makers and decision makers and people who manage marine protected areas so that they can kind of make decisions today that are going to be climate ready, uh, for, for in years to come. 385 00:40:09,392.0816327 --> 00:40:12,842.0816327 which is, which is amazing that you guys do that. 386 00:40:12,932.0806327 --> 00:40:17,802.0816327 I mean, uh, sharks need to be protected. 387 00:40:17,932.0806327 --> 00:40:18,652.0806327 Absolutely. 388 00:40:19,442.0816327 --> 00:40:44,957.0816327 Um, One of the other things I was going to ask you is, uh, since I have such a fascination with sharks, and I have a shark expert on the line here, what is more, what is more of an aggressive shark? A bull shark or a great white? Because I've heard, I've heard multiple people say that, oh, bulls are definitely more aggressive. 389 00:40:47,177.0816327 --> 00:40:55,567.0806327 Yeah, I mean, I would term aggressive is really hard to define because the sharks don't show the aggression in the way like a human is. 390 00:40:57,302.0816327 --> 00:41:07,522.0806327 I would say when people think of aggression, I think of sharks like coming towards you and maybe, you know, how, how, how willing they are to get close to you and kind of evade your personal space. 391 00:41:07,642.0816327 --> 00:41:20,72.0816327 And I would be more uncomfortable around, uh, you know, outside of a cage swimming around a great white than I would be a bull shark. 392 00:41:20,202.0816327 --> 00:41:25,762.0816327 Um, you know, I've dove with bull sharks many times, including at night. 393 00:41:26,7.0816327 --> 00:41:35,747.0816327 And, you know, um, they're, they're really, they're sneaky in the sense that they don't like charge in and they, they really just. 394 00:41:36,357.0816327 --> 00:41:38,117.0816327 They're very cautious around people. 395 00:41:38,117.0816327 --> 00:41:47,617.0816327 I think, I think they, they, they need time to work up the courage to come in to be, um, to invade your personal space. 396 00:41:47,617.0816327 --> 00:41:51,677.0816327 They're, they're more, they're more cunning in that way. 397 00:41:51,727.0806327 --> 00:41:56,426.9816327 I think is that they really like to sneak up on you and let you try to. 398 00:41:57,117.0816327 --> 00:42:03,247.0816327 You know, if you're looking at them to kind of keep their distance, I think they're waiting for you to kind of let up your guard. 399 00:42:03,637.0816327 --> 00:42:18,7.0816327 Um, I think in the case with bull sharks, why many people who have shark, negative shark encounters have to be with bull sharks because, you know, bull sharks inhabit warm waters where there's more people in the water. 400 00:42:18,87.0806327 --> 00:42:24,817.0816327 And often they like, you know, really murky water, like which you find in estuaries that, you know. 401 00:42:25,397.0816327 --> 00:42:37,487.0816327 That's going to be situations where, you know, it's going to be hard to see the sharks because the water's murky and they're in areas that are warm where people like to get in the water and they can do damage if they end up biting you. 402 00:42:38,287.0816327 --> 00:42:45,957.0806327 Um, also harder for the shark, for bull sharks to, you know, to see what they're biting if the water's murky. 403 00:42:47,47.0806327 --> 00:42:48,977.0806327 Great whites, on the other hand, they're. 404 00:42:51,347.0816327 --> 00:42:52,807.0816327 I think they're more curious. 405 00:42:52,987.0816327 --> 00:42:56,267.0816327 Um, they're also bolder for sure. 406 00:42:56,797.0816327 --> 00:43:01,287.0816327 Um, you know, they generally try to avoid people and activities. 407 00:43:01,287.0816327 --> 00:43:06,347.0811327 I think they get bothered by human activities like boats or other things. 408 00:43:06,347.0811327 --> 00:43:12,137.0816327 But if they are curious by it, they're so big that they don't really have a fear of hurting themselves. 409 00:43:12,152.1816327 --> 00:43:21,512.0816327 I would say their personal space, they don't really have a personal space in that sense, because they're not really worried about something hurting them. 410 00:43:21,542.0816327 --> 00:43:24,252.0816327 So like they, they just come right in. 411 00:43:24,262.0816326 --> 00:43:29,902.0816326 And the thing about great whites is that sometimes you can't see them coming. 412 00:43:29,922.0806326 --> 00:43:33,742.0826326 So like when I've been, they're so stealthy, much more stealthy than a bull shark. 413 00:43:34,282.0806326 --> 00:43:35,572.0816326 And so like, if you're. 414 00:43:35,912.0816326 --> 00:43:43,682.0816326 I've been in a cage before and you know, looking left, looking right, you know, being in, having my head on a swivel and I see nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. 415 00:43:43,682.0816326 --> 00:43:46,502.0806326 And then there's a great white, white, right in front of me. 416 00:43:46,602.0806326 --> 00:43:49,652.0806326 I'm like, how did it get there? I was just looking at that spot. 417 00:43:50,452.0806326 --> 00:43:52,992.0816326 You know, I've never had that with a bull shark, with a bull shark. 418 00:43:52,992.0816326 --> 00:43:55,612.0816326 I see them coming in closer and closer, closer to the great white. 419 00:43:55,682.0816326 --> 00:43:57,182.0816326 It's like nothing, nothing, nothing. 420 00:43:57,182.0816326 --> 00:43:57,972.0816326 And they're in front of me. 421 00:43:58,452.0816326 --> 00:43:59,582.0816326 And that, that is. 422 00:44:00,17.0816326 --> 00:44:05,167.0816326 To me, the scary part, you know, I don't like to be surprised when I'm underwater by a shark. 423 00:44:05,287.0816326 --> 00:44:10,87.0816326 And so, um, I think, I don't, you know, I think that is something they do. 424 00:44:10,87.0816326 --> 00:44:17,477.0816326 And the other thing is that they're very visual great whites, where a lot of other sharks, I think are, they rely a lot more. 425 00:44:17,997.0806326 --> 00:44:22,837.0816326 They put a greater emphasis on their smell where, you know, great whites rely on smell definitely. 426 00:44:23,387.0816326 --> 00:44:27,977.0816326 That's probably the most important sense as in all sharks, but they also, I think great whites put a little more. 427 00:44:28,607.0816326 --> 00:44:30,487.0816326 reliance on vision than other sharks. 428 00:44:30,487.0816326 --> 00:44:45,527.0806326 So if you have a, if you've got bait and you're putting out a smell trail, all the other sharks, including blue shark, uh, all the other sharks, including bull sharks, are usually going to come in the direction of the scent trail. 429 00:44:45,577.0816326 --> 00:44:47,487.0806326 They're always going to work up the scent trail. 430 00:44:47,927.0806326 --> 00:44:52,847.0816326 And so if you are looking down the scent trail, you'll know that's the direction that these sharks are coming from. 431 00:44:53,397.0816326 --> 00:45:06,992.0816326 A great white might originally approach Something via the scent trail, but once they make the visual connection to of what is making the smell, they'll approach from other angles where then that's so they're much. 432 00:45:07,712.0816326 --> 00:45:18,632.0816326 It's it's much harder to kind of know which direction I'm going to come from where a bull shark, even if they make that visual connection, they'll, they'll circle back and come up the scent trail again where white sharks might just come from the other direction. 433 00:45:19,982.0816327 --> 00:45:20,542.0816327 Wow. 434 00:45:20,542.0816327 --> 00:45:34,919.4816326 Um, so when, when The y do all these shark feeds and stuff? Is this a good Well, I think anytime you can, I think, yeah. 435 00:45:35,219.5816326 --> 00:45:44,169.5816326 Shark dive tourism is a good thing, and I might be biased, but I think it, it, one of the big things it does is it, um, there's a lot of advantages. 436 00:45:44,249.5816326 --> 00:45:47,219.5806326 It shows a, a live shark is worth more than a dead shark. 437 00:45:47,219.5816326 --> 00:45:59,479.5816326 And right now, the places that protect sharks are certainly all the places that rely on sharks for, um, the economy, where, where sharks are contributing, live sharks through tourism are contributing a lot to the economy. 438 00:45:59,489.5816326 --> 00:46:01,29.5816326 Those places sharks are protected. 439 00:46:01,759.5816326 --> 00:46:03,284.4816326 Um, and it also shows that, yeah. 440 00:46:03,284.5816326 --> 00:46:15,154.5816326 Uh, you know, people getting to swim with these sharks, it turns a lot of these people who might be doing it for the thrill, end up becoming in love with sharks and becoming huge advocates. 441 00:46:15,174.5816326 --> 00:46:23,114.5806326 So just the experience creates, you know, turns people's, shifts their behaviors into becoming the biggest advocates for sharks. 442 00:46:23,844.5816326 --> 00:46:24,914.5816326 Uh, and then also. 443 00:46:24,994.5816326 --> 00:46:34,664.5816326 Uh, you know, in a lot of places where there is shark tourism, the people who run the shark tourism, you know, those are providing alternative livelihoods to, for example, fishing for sharks. 444 00:46:35,464.5816326 --> 00:46:42,944.5816326 And then it also, by people having these safe encounters for sharks frequently, it shows that these sharks aren't mindless killers either. 445 00:46:43,804.5816326 --> 00:46:45,234.5816326 So I think there's a lot of positives. 446 00:46:45,424.5816326 --> 00:47:04,894.5806326 That being said, if done irresponsibly, uh, it could be very bad for sharks because You know, years and years and decades of shark conservation work or anything, you know, efforts to show sharks in a positive light and that they're not, you know, these animals that are these. 447 00:47:05,309.5816326 --> 00:47:15,339.5816326 You know, man eaters as portrayed in the media, if there's just one shark bite, it can undo all of that positive because it's the shark bite that gets all the headlines. 448 00:47:16,99.5816326 --> 00:47:35,39.5816326 And so in places where, you know, I think the tourism is not done by experienced people in a, in a way that is, um, no, I don't want to say regulated, but certainly responsible in a way under, you know, certain protocols to enhance. 449 00:47:35,984.5816326 --> 00:47:37,884.5816326 safety and respect the sharks. 450 00:47:38,4.5816326 --> 00:47:39,784.5816326 I think it could be a problem. 451 00:47:39,804.5816326 --> 00:47:51,514.5816326 And I think when it comes to feeding sharks, I personally think that it's better to attract sharks with the smell than to feed them. 452 00:47:51,814.5816326 --> 00:48:18,224.5806326 And if you do feed them, I think, you know, I don't see an issue with that when it's done in a limited Because as long as you're not, you know, um, giving them enough, that's like a constant reward that's habituating them or in a situation where they're getting their energy needs, right? I mean, if there's a lot of sharks, giving a few, some baits is not going to make a big difference. 453 00:48:19,424.5806326 --> 00:48:23,114.5806326 Um, but I think. 454 00:48:23,754.5816326 --> 00:48:30,394.5816326 Like hand feeding the sharks, you know, you're putting yourself, I think, I'm not, I'm personally not a fan of hand feeding. 455 00:48:30,394.5816326 --> 00:49:03,249.5806326 I think if you can feed them with like a tool or something like that, um, it's a lot better, you know, um, not to say that hand feeding them is going to necessarily associate the diver with the food, but I think it's, these sharks are smart, you know, I think if you can, you know, Uh, you don't want to, you know, just common sense activities, you know, you, you, if you just have, you know, a pole or something else to, or tongs to feed the sharks, that's going to be a lot safer, uh, for you. 456 00:49:03,249.5816326 --> 00:49:23,959.5816326 And again, it's another, I would say separation between the, the, the diver themselves and, and the shark in terms of even what the shark experiences, but I tend to think that it's better to bait the sharks with smell and then, uh, rather than, you know, having people. 457 00:49:24,279.5816326 --> 00:49:26,959.5816326 Hand feed them, you know, constantly. 458 00:49:27,969.5816326 --> 00:49:36,179.5816326 And, but I don't want to use this, this podcast to talk about what I believe is responsible and irresponsible shark diving. 459 00:49:36,269.5806326 --> 00:49:40,219.5816326 I guess what I want to say is that there's a way to do it in a responsible way. 460 00:49:40,759.5806326 --> 00:49:42,829.5806326 Uh, and there's an irresponsible way. 461 00:49:42,829.5806326 --> 00:49:49,299.5816326 And I think the people that have been doing it for a long time, uh, particularly, uh, generally are the ones that. 462 00:49:49,659.5816326 --> 00:49:55,679.5816326 You know, ones that are, um, more reputable and certainly doing it in a more responsible way. 463 00:49:56,824.5816327 --> 00:49:58,134.5816327 that's, that's amazing. 464 00:49:58,134.5816327 --> 00:50:12,104.5806327 I mean, I've, uh, anytime that I've heard of any type of incident of somebody getting bit or something, when it has been doing a shark dive, generally, it's because they broke protocol on what the dive operator set up. 465 00:50:12,809.5816326 --> 00:50:13,569.5816326 Exactly. 466 00:50:14,534.5806327 --> 00:50:14,834.5806327 So. 467 00:50:16,464.5816327 --> 00:50:19,904.5816327 I mean, if you're gonna play with sharks, then you better listen to the dive master. 468 00:50:20,799.5816326 --> 00:50:22,29.5816326 Yeah, absolutely. 469 00:50:22,109.5816326 --> 00:50:30,39.5806326 You know, and, and there's, unfortunately, sometimes it takes those, those things to happen before people pay attention to the rules. 470 00:50:30,569.5826326 --> 00:51:05,284.5816326 But, um, you know, it's, I think it's, You know now on social media, there's there's when you know, there's so much that gets information and gets spread quickly that if you see someone doing something You know feeding sharks you think that you can do it as well but they don't really know the years of training and that goes into that or the understanding of the animals behavior that goes into there, you know, so You know, you really need So you really need to understand the animals before you can start, you know, running an operation where you're going to involve bait or start feeding the sharks. 471 00:51:05,784.5816327 --> 00:51:06,254.5816327 Oh yeah. 472 00:51:06,334.5816327 --> 00:51:06,574.5816327 Yeah. 473 00:51:06,574.5816327 --> 00:51:15,124.5806327 No, I'm, I am super excited to get the chance to come out and dive on your boat this year and actually and get to work with you. 474 00:51:15,634.5816327 --> 00:51:17,284.5816327 World leading shark expert. 475 00:51:17,564.5816326 --> 00:51:18,794.5816326 Yeah, we'd love that. 476 00:51:18,794.5816326 --> 00:51:27,424.5806326 And like I said, we'd love to, we'd love to make our platform more accessible so any way we can learn from that community. 477 00:51:27,914.5816326 --> 00:51:39,504.5816326 Uh, that you, uh, I think have outreach to, to not only tell them about what we're doing, but also to, um, help them teach us how to be more accessible as well. 478 00:51:40,24.5816327 --> 00:51:45,314.5816327 I actually have some, uh, before I got back into motocross, how I got hurt. 479 00:51:45,334.5816327 --> 00:51:48,754.5816327 Actually, I used to be in the into motocross racing. 480 00:51:49,64.5816327 --> 00:51:50,374.5816327 Before I got back into diving. 481 00:51:51,64.5816327 --> 00:51:56,104.5816327 And, um, I, I actually have, I actually rode adaptive motocross for a bit. 482 00:51:56,104.5816327 --> 00:52:11,24.5816327 So I, I have some contacts with some pretty crazy adaptive athletes, uh, to say the least that I I've been having a few conversations with, to try and get them to, uh, convince them into this. 483 00:52:11,24.5816327 --> 00:52:18,684.5816327 So I, I think I've actually got a couple of, uh, possibly, uh, good candidates that come out for you to promote this. 484 00:52:19,114.5816326 --> 00:52:19,514.5816326 Great. 485 00:52:19,514.5816326 --> 00:52:19,864.5816326 Great. 486 00:52:19,864.5816326 --> 00:52:20,94.5816326 Yeah. 487 00:52:20,94.5816326 --> 00:52:25,134.5806326 And, and to also for them to give us some tips on how to do things in a way that is more accessible for sure. 488 00:52:25,504.5816327 --> 00:52:26,174.5816327 Oh, exactly. 489 00:52:26,174.5816327 --> 00:52:45,44.5816327 Which I mean, that's the whole point of my podcast, especially is to make people aware of the benefits of diving, how good it is for people with disabilities mentally, um, And just to be able to break through barriers that you normally cannot do on land. 490 00:52:46,34.5806326 --> 00:52:46,654.5806326 Exactly. 491 00:52:47,814.5816327 --> 00:52:54,534.5816327 So, um, tell me, uh, just a briefly a bit about your Black Girls Dive Foundation. 492 00:52:55,439.5816326 --> 00:52:58,339.5816326 So that is, uh, it's a pretty amazing group. 493 00:52:58,389.5816326 --> 00:53:40,479.5816326 Um, it's a us based nonprofit where they are trying to provide opportunities for, uh, youth, particularly, uh, minority, black minority girls to, uh, go out on the ocean, uh, learn how to dive, participate in scuba diving and also marine science, and so they have curriculums and, uh, various, I would say, like, Courses, uh, and curricula focus on aspects of obtaining knowledge about marine science, but also getting trained up in diving and scientific diving. 494 00:53:40,539.5816326 --> 00:53:57,389.5816326 Um, and, you know, I have been involved with Black Girls Dive Foundation for a while, particularly Um, Educating girls about sharks and also giving the experience in diving with sharks and and also importantly giving experience in in doing shark research and getting involved with shark tagging. 495 00:53:57,389.5816326 --> 00:54:03,709.5816326 And so I, for example, um, have brought them out on boats to be involved with shark tagging. 496 00:54:04,179.5816326 --> 00:54:10,219.5816326 I've, uh, taught them, um, in class, like how to analyze shark tracking data using GIS. 497 00:54:10,729.5816326 --> 00:54:20,359.5806326 And we've also helped organize a trip to bring the girls to Bimini, Bahamas to go, uh, diving out there with sharks and gave them lectures while we're out there. 498 00:54:20,359.5806326 --> 00:54:29,509.5816326 So, um, yeah, it's a fantastic organization that, that promotes the, you know, shark diving in youth, particularly in, in black girls. 499 00:54:30,264.5816327 --> 00:54:31,174.5816327 That's amazing. 500 00:54:31,194.5816327 --> 00:54:33,564.5806327 That's, that's a really cool program to do. 501 00:54:34,184.5816327 --> 00:54:42,139.5816326 Um, And it's free to the girls, like, you know, and they get, they, they, they get this free experiencing social diving. 502 00:54:42,139.5816326 --> 00:54:53,659.5806326 And, and certainly, uh, the group reaches, uh, um, demographics of the population that usually, um, I would say culturally don't, don't go diving a lot. 503 00:54:53,849.5806326 --> 00:55:36,569.5816327 So it, it's, it's great outreach and great education to, um, people that sometimes would otherwise not be, um, going diving, which, which is amazing because I mean, diving, let's face it, it's not a cheap sport to Get into by any means and especially if you're a disabled person or a person of minority possibly or whatever it's it's not a cheap thing to get into and especially well one thing I've found from doing research for this podcast actually is the lack of uh support there is for people who want to be able to scuba dive. 504 00:55:37,714.5816327 --> 00:55:40,779.5816326 That are disabled or have, Yeah. 505 00:55:40,884.5816327 --> 00:55:57,34.5806327 issues there's, there's one, there's, there's basically, there's one instructor in Canada, uh, Hubert, who is absolutely slammed you, you couldn't get him to teach another student for years coming up. 506 00:55:57,844.5816327 --> 00:56:00,354.5816327 Um, because he, he just can't. 507 00:56:00,594.5816327 --> 00:56:06,604.5816327 And, and in the States, you've got, um, uh, Jim Elliot with DiveHeart. 508 00:56:06,604.5816327 --> 00:56:08,564.5816327 I don't know if you've heard of DiveHeart or not. 509 00:56:09,574.5816327 --> 00:56:11,14.5816327 They're an amazing program. 510 00:56:11,14.5816327 --> 00:56:11,454.5816327 Actually. 511 00:56:11,454.5816327 --> 00:56:13,934.5806327 I've just been talking to Jim the last couple of days. 512 00:56:14,334.5816327 --> 00:56:17,484.5806327 Check out, uh, anybody who's watching check out DiveHeart. 513 00:56:17,794.5826327 --> 00:56:18,214.5826327 org. 514 00:56:18,524.5816327 --> 00:56:22,574.5816327 These guys actually go and train disabled divers. 515 00:56:23,164.5816327 --> 00:56:26,314.5816327 Of all types, they have paraplegics, everything. 516 00:56:26,494.5816327 --> 00:56:32,94.5816327 Um, they actually take them on trips down to Cozumel, uh, every year. 517 00:56:32,114.5816327 --> 00:56:33,444.5816327 Yeah, they're fantastic. 518 00:56:33,444.5816327 --> 00:56:35,54.5816327 They're based out of, uh, Chicago. 519 00:56:35,54.5816327 --> 00:56:40,94.5806327 They're actually going to be building a 150 foot deep training pool. 520 00:56:41,589.5816327 --> 00:56:51,459.5806327 To be able to train divers, which is going to be amazing, especially when it comes to, uh, disabilities and be able to getting more practice in the water. 521 00:56:51,469.5816327 --> 00:56:52,539.5806327 So it's phenomenal. 522 00:56:52,539.5816327 --> 00:56:59,39.5806327 I'm actually going to get him on the show and, um, in the next couple of days, actually, we're going to be interviewing. 523 00:56:59,39.5806327 --> 00:57:02,89.5816327 So I'm definitely going to put him in touch with you as well. 524 00:57:02,269.5816326 --> 00:57:02,729.5816326 Please. 525 00:57:03,124.5816327 --> 00:57:06,184.5816327 Because I think it'd be an amazing experience for some of their guys. 526 00:57:06,749.5816326 --> 00:57:07,319.5816326 Amazing. 527 00:57:08,179.5816326 --> 00:57:08,769.5816326 I would love that. 528 00:57:08,779.5816326 --> 00:57:09,209.5816326 Thank you. 529 00:57:10,134.5816327 --> 00:57:10,844.5816327 Oh, no problem. 530 00:57:10,854.5816327 --> 00:57:17,144.5816327 And by the way, the links are all going to be down below the video here for all of Dr. 531 00:57:17,144.5816327 --> 00:57:17,664.5816327 Neal's. 532 00:57:18,24.5816327 --> 00:57:19,104.5816327 organizations. 533 00:57:19,944.5816327 --> 00:57:22,454.5816327 And, uh, thank you very much, Dr. 534 00:57:22,454.5816327 --> 00:57:22,774.5816327 Neal. 535 00:57:22,784.5816327 --> 00:57:24,944.5816327 I have really appreciated this today. 536 00:57:24,954.5816327 --> 00:57:30,184.5816327 It's been awesome talking to you and I cannot wait to come out and dive with you this summer. 537 00:57:30,799.5806326 --> 00:57:31,219.5806326 Thank you. 538 00:57:31,219.5806326 --> 00:57:31,939.5816326 It's been a pleasure. 539 00:57:31,939.5816326 --> 00:57:32,259.5811326 Yeah. 540 00:57:32,259.5811326 --> 00:57:36,489.5806326 It's really cool to, to have the opportunity to speak to you and your community. 541 00:57:37,124.5816327 --> 00:57:37,424.5816327 Yeah. 542 00:57:37,454.5816327 --> 00:57:37,954.5816327 Awesome. 543 00:57:37,994.5816327 --> 00:57:39,244.5816327 Thank you very much. 544 00:57:39,809.5816326 --> 00:57:40,179.5816326 Cool. 545 00:57:40,189.5816326 --> 00:57:40,679.5806326 Thank you. 546 00:57:41,274.5816327 --> 00:57:52,894.5816327 And remember everybody likes subscribe and donate so that that way I can go out and make more great content for you and see you next time on the Deadfoot Diver podcast.

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