Episode 3: "Exploring the Depths with Jill Heinerth: Diving Beyond Limits

Episode Transcript
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You are watching the Deadfoot Diver Podcast with Curt the Deadfoot Diver. 2 00:00:12,414.081632653 --> 00:00:22,284.081632653 Welcome to the Deadfoot Diver Podcast today where we talk about everything diving, tech diving, and especially bring to light the benefits of diving with disabilities. 3 00:00:22,374.081632653 --> 00:00:28,674.081632653 I am absolutely thrilled on my first season to be able to have my next guest on. 4 00:00:29,234.081632653 --> 00:00:37,324.081632653 My next guest is considered a rock star in the diving world, if not the world, period, when it comes to diving. 5 00:00:38,384.081632653 --> 00:00:41,244.081632653 She is a National Geographic Explorer. 6 00:00:41,769.081632653 --> 00:00:48,909.081632653 If I actually sat here and had to list off all of her awards, it would take the entire episode and probably longer. 7 00:00:50,139.081632653 --> 00:00:57,549.081632653 So without further ado, I do I would like to introduce the world famous explorer, Jill Heinerth. 8 00:00:57,619.081632653 --> 00:00:58,669.081632653 How's it going, Jill?. 9 00:00:58,749.081632653 --> 00:00:59,599.081632653 Hey, great. 10 00:00:59,609.081632653 --> 00:01:02,189.081632653 Thank you so much for having me, having me on the show. 11 00:01:02,999.081632653 --> 00:01:05,649.081632653 Well, thank you very much for coming on. 12 00:01:05,739.081632653 --> 00:01:07,299.081632653 I really appreciate this. 13 00:01:07,319.081632653 --> 00:01:09,189.081632653 It's an honor to have you on here. 14 00:01:09,629.081632653 --> 00:01:16,29.081632653 Um, I have been a fan of your work and your diving for decades since I started diving, actually. 15 00:01:16,789.081632653 --> 00:01:25,409.081632653 So, it's an absolute treat to have you on here and supporting me in bringing the attention to disabled divers. 16 00:01:26,324.081632653 --> 00:01:35,264.081632653 So, first of all, let's, if you don't mind me asking, I know that you've had a lot of experience working with, um, disabled divers. 17 00:01:35,754.081632653 --> 00:01:43,279.08163265 So, can you tell me about that? Oh, I mean, honestly, we all have different disabilities and abilities. 18 00:01:43,999.08063265 --> 00:01:50,769.08063265 So, so for me, it's just an extension of, of the, the realization that, that. 19 00:01:51,299.08163265 --> 00:02:10,649.08163265 Scuba is personal, like when it comes to fit for equipment and strategies for how to solve problems, um, there are lots of unique solutions that are, are right for somebody's different body proportions or someone's different level of abilities or flexibility or whatever. 20 00:02:11,39.08163265 --> 00:02:19,39.08163265 Um, so when it comes to diving, I think that instruction and support and buddying is a personal thing. 21 00:02:19,109.08063265 --> 00:02:28,844.08163265 And, uh, So for me, it's, it's really exciting to help people who have maybe more challenges than I do, or, or unique challenges that just need to be overcome. 22 00:02:28,844.08163265 --> 00:02:41,614.08163265 Because once we're beneath the surface, it doesn't matter like gender, what color, what political background, what, you know, level of ability, we are all able to float, you know, neutrally buoyant in paradise. 23 00:02:42,994.08163265 --> 00:02:44,554.08163265 Yeah, that's, that's true. 24 00:02:44,554.08163265 --> 00:03:00,889.08163265 So, can you tell me about, I know that you've had a chance to actually work with some amazing, uh, disabled divers who are doing extreme technical diving way beyond probably what I will ever even attempt to do. 25 00:03:02,119.08163265 --> 00:03:06,84.08163265 So can you tell me a bit about that? Yeah. 26 00:03:06,344.08163265 --> 00:03:07,524.08163265 For me, it's exciting. 27 00:03:07,814.08163265 --> 00:03:15,794.08163265 It's a, it's a learning opportunity when, when someone's able to like authentically share the challenges that they expect that they'll have underwater. 28 00:03:16,294.08163265 --> 00:03:27,714.08163265 And what I've discovered is, is actually most of the challenges are just getting ready for the dive, you know, whether it's, you know, getting into a suit or whatever, needing some sort of assistance to get in the water. 29 00:03:28,24.08163265 --> 00:03:29,994.08163265 Once you're in the water, you're, you're home free. 30 00:03:30,804.08163265 --> 00:03:37,174.08163265 Like, like, you know, I've, I've dived with people who, um, uh, are living with paraplegia, for instance. 31 00:03:37,214.08163265 --> 00:03:47,374.08163265 And, and yet they can out swim 90 percent of others I know, like with their arms, it's just unbelievable how they can propel themselves through the water. 32 00:03:47,434.08063265 --> 00:03:54,194.08163265 And so I think a lot of people who, who dive with disabilities or challenges in their life, um, they, they have to find. 33 00:03:54,714.08163265 --> 00:04:22,129.08163265 Ways around everything they do and so it's just another expression of their creativity getting into the underwater world But once they're beneath the surface, it's like they're free you know, it's all of a sudden the things that you know gravity challenged them with are gone and They're so humble and, and, uh, just enthralled with the opportunity to, to really be free again. 34 00:04:23,969.08163265 --> 00:04:27,549.08163265 it's, it's amazing the effect that scuba has on somebody. 35 00:04:27,649.08163265 --> 00:04:33,219.08163265 I mean, I, I know for myself personally, it has getting back into diving again. 36 00:04:33,219.08163265 --> 00:04:37,39.08063265 This time has changed my life beyond my wildest dreams. 37 00:04:37,649.08163265 --> 00:04:38,659.08063265 Yeah, that's cool. 38 00:04:39,239.08163265 --> 00:04:40,929.08163265 It's, it's been amazing. 39 00:04:40,989.08163265 --> 00:04:46,789.08063265 I went through years of, um, uh, depression, Mm hmm. 40 00:04:46,789.18063265 --> 00:04:51,199.08163265 Mm a lot of not great, great stuff when I wasn't diving. 41 00:04:51,249.08163265 --> 00:05:02,759.08163265 And I actually, it was a, uh, snorkeling trip in Cozumel where I actually happened to meet an adaptive diver who they sat her on the boat beside me. 42 00:05:03,289.08163265 --> 00:05:06,529.08163265 And it's like, I can do this. 43 00:05:07,299.08163265 --> 00:05:10,489.08063265 I spent the entire time actually watching her. 44 00:05:11,119.08163265 --> 00:05:26,789.08163265 watching her when I was snorkeling instead of paying attention to all the marine life because I was so I was like, why did I ever give this up? I gotta at least try this again So the next day I actually got into the pool and threw a tank on Yeah. 45 00:05:27,39.08163265 --> 00:05:36,659.08113265 And I think you brought up a really important point too, that there, it's not just, it's not just physical issues that sometimes like slow us down or make things more difficult, but it's also, it's also mental health issues. 46 00:05:36,659.08113265 --> 00:05:57,929.08163265 And thank God we're able to talk about that a lot more openly now, but Diving is incredibly powerful for, for mental health challenges too, like getting underwater and just getting out of your body and your mind in this incredible environment and sharing an experience with someone else is, is powerful. 47 00:05:57,929.08163265 --> 00:06:00,569.08163265 It's, it's empowering for, for most people. 48 00:06:00,574.08163265 --> 00:06:00,854.08163265 Yeah. 49 00:06:01,549.08063265 --> 00:06:25,679.08163265 Yeah, it's it's amazing I mean i've had so much fun this year I mean doing this podcast has brought it to a whole nother level just the people that i've met Um, I've also been talking a lot with, um, Jim Elliot from Diveheart, which, I mean, his videos, I, I actually have trouble going through them without, uh crying, crying. 50 00:06:25,819.08163265 --> 00:06:32,569.08063265 I know we all do uh, because I, I totally, in my case, I totally identify with it. 51 00:06:33,134.08163265 --> 00:06:39,989.08163265 Mm-hmm Mm-hmm amazing the impact it does, not just mentally, physically, I feel way better. 52 00:06:40,399.08163265 --> 00:06:40,909.08163265 I mean. 53 00:06:41,369.08163265 --> 00:06:50,239.08163265 You know, when I, when I was in Jamaica last month diving and I actually hurt my hand, I felt way better when I was diving all week. 54 00:06:50,249.08163265 --> 00:06:54,309.08063265 If I had access to a recompression chamber, I would probably go right now. 55 00:06:54,764.08163265 --> 00:07:03,934.08163265 Well, you know, that's really interesting because there's unbelievable, like, therapeutic, you know, benefits from the high partial pressures of oxygen. 56 00:07:04,394.08163265 --> 00:07:09,414.08163265 I mean, honestly, if hyperbaric treatment was Cheaper and easier to deploy. 57 00:07:09,434.08163265 --> 00:07:12,234.08163265 It would be a mainstay of the medical system. 58 00:07:12,714.08163265 --> 00:07:24,554.08063265 Uh, you know, I recently met a guy in Europe who, um, he had had profound, you know, third degree burns on something like 40 percent of his body and, and diving was his life too. 59 00:07:24,554.08163265 --> 00:07:33,474.08163265 And he was, you know, first a trying to survive, but then B thinking about, Oh my God, how am I going to dive? And the doctor is like, you're going to be in the hospital for. 60 00:07:33,934.08163265 --> 00:07:39,44.08163265 Probably six months in ICU and he's like, no, I'm leaving here in six weeks. 61 00:07:39,864.08163265 --> 00:07:40,714.08163265 You're like, no, you're not. 62 00:07:40,724.08163265 --> 00:07:42,644.08163265 And he goes, yeah, I am. 63 00:07:42,974.08163265 --> 00:07:49,134.08163265 And six weeks, you know, to the day he left and he started diving right away, dry suit and everything. 64 00:07:49,654.08063265 --> 00:07:57,769.08163265 And, uh, And his burns healed incredibly well, and the doctor's like, what are you doing? He said, I'm diving. 65 00:07:57,779.08163265 --> 00:07:59,839.08163265 And he's like, Oh, crap. 66 00:08:02,489.08163265 --> 00:08:03,339.08163265 Okay. 67 00:08:03,359.08163265 --> 00:08:29,444.08163265 It seems to be working, you know, mentally, funny how a lot of doctors actually don't even When they're thinking about treatments don't even think about the benefits of hyperbaric medicine like for burns or anything well, you know, in other parts of the world, they do like in Bermuda, for instance, uh, they have an amazing chamber facility and they, they don't have diver traffic that needs it. 68 00:08:29,444.08163265 --> 00:08:37,868.98163265 So they do mostly, you know, medical treatments for, um, people, uh, spinal cord injuries for burns for gas gangrene for diabetic. 69 00:08:38,169.08163265 --> 00:08:43,179.08163265 Um, and they chart the progress over time, like day by day photos. 70 00:08:43,509.08163265 --> 00:08:49,869.08063265 They have the luxury because of the socialized medical system that they have that, that they could treat someone for a whole year. 71 00:08:50,219.08163265 --> 00:09:02,119.08163265 But imagine that if you're treating someone for a whole year, like three, four, five, six hours a day, that's, that's an incredible investment of the medical system and it's only going to happen in a, in a nonprofit. 72 00:09:02,544.08163265 --> 00:09:03,284.08163265 situation. 73 00:09:03,284.08163265 --> 00:09:07,764.08163265 So that's why we're not going to see that happening in the United States anytime soon. 74 00:09:08,224.08163265 --> 00:09:13,924.08163265 Um, but the therapeutic benefits of, of hyperbaric medicine are far beyond diving. 75 00:09:14,504.08163265 --> 00:09:15,14.08163265 Yeah. 76 00:09:15,469.08163265 --> 00:09:34,954.08163265 Yeah, it's it's absolutely incredible what hyperbaric medicine can do and and like you said just about the mental aspect of diving In general, with somebody's overall health, I mean, and I, I know that list, um, reading your book here into the planet. 77 00:09:35,84.08163265 --> 00:09:38,504.08163265 If you have not picked up this book, you got to read it. 78 00:09:38,694.08163265 --> 00:09:41,964.08163265 The audible book is absolutely incredible. 79 00:09:41,984.08163265 --> 00:09:44,384.08063265 I have actually listened to it a couple of times. 80 00:09:44,944.08063265 --> 00:09:47,864.08063265 Uh, authors, you need to read your own books. 81 00:09:49,814.08163265 --> 00:09:50,984.08163265 That was hard, actually. 82 00:09:51,24.08163265 --> 00:09:53,454.08163265 That's a hard process for me, doing my own audiobook. 83 00:09:53,874.08063265 --> 00:10:03,84.08063265 Really? Yeah, yeah, because you have a director and, uh, and an audio person who's working with you and the director keeps stopping me, going no, no, no, don't improv. 84 00:10:03,84.08163265 --> 00:10:10,189.08163265 You need to read every Word as you've written it, but when you start reading your own stories, you tend to improv here and there. 85 00:10:11,314.08063265 --> 00:10:11,684.08063265 Yup. 86 00:10:12,239.08163265 --> 00:10:13,299.08163265 She's like, no, no, no, no. 87 00:10:13,349.08163265 --> 00:10:14,699.08163265 Word for word. 88 00:10:17,624.08163265 --> 00:10:21,274.08163265 I mean, yeah, your, your book is incredible. 89 00:10:21,274.08163265 --> 00:10:27,204.08063265 It's actually the, the best book I've ever read about diving and exploration. 90 00:10:27,854.08163265 --> 00:10:29,684.08163265 It is truly inspirational. 91 00:10:30,334.08163265 --> 00:10:36,74.08163265 Um, so divers out there pick up the book if you haven't because you're missing out. 92 00:10:37,464.08163265 --> 00:10:45,479.08063265 Um, so in terms of, uh, some of the guys, I know that you've done some work with Hubert Yeah. 93 00:10:45,649.08163265 --> 00:10:46,169.08163265 Yeah. 94 00:10:46,264.08163265 --> 00:10:53,4.08163265 actually, he's a He's the only really adaptive dive instructor anywhere in Canada. 95 00:10:53,744.08163265 --> 00:10:55,994.08163265 Um, he's totally swamped. 96 00:10:55,994.08163265 --> 00:11:00,814.08163265 He cannot even take any more students at all because he's so jammed. 97 00:11:01,884.08163265 --> 00:11:08,9.08163265 Can you tell me a bit about that and about the type of stuff that he does? Yeah, yeah. 98 00:11:08,9.08163265 --> 00:11:11,639.08163265 Hubert's a great friend of mine and he's an excellent trainer. 99 00:11:11,989.08163265 --> 00:11:16,489.08063265 We first met when he was interning with me as a cave diving instructor. 100 00:11:16,889.08163265 --> 00:11:25,819.08163265 And then, you know, learning about his work, I started to just kind of be an on call support buddy for some of his divers. 101 00:11:26,269.08163265 --> 00:11:31,779.08163265 And so, you know, he might call me and I'll run down to jump on a boat with him in Lake Ontario and go diving. 102 00:11:32,389.08163265 --> 00:11:39,319.08163265 But also, he has taught I guess turned to me for some of the technical diving support, uh, for some of his students. 103 00:11:39,329.08163265 --> 00:11:49,539.08163265 So, so we've, you know, worked with, uh, divers with disabilities to train them as cave divers and, and sidemount divers and, you know, far beyond single tank diving. 104 00:11:49,809.08163265 --> 00:11:50,449.08113265 Yeah. 105 00:11:50,449.08113265 --> 00:11:51,79.08063265 Yeah. 106 00:11:51,209.08163265 --> 00:12:01,174.08163265 So, yeah, we have a student that, uh, we worked with last Summer, or last winter, under the ice that's now interested in side mount diving, and he's paraplegic. 107 00:12:01,174.08163265 --> 00:12:05,844.08163265 And so together we'll strategize to get it just right. 108 00:12:05,864.08163265 --> 00:12:18,579.08163265 And, and I love that challenge because I, I, I feel like it's so important to have a professional and personal fit, especially when it comes to sidemount diving. 109 00:12:19,89.08063265 --> 00:12:28,799.08163265 And that is exacerbated when you have someone who is, who is diving with additional challenges and needs adaptation to the equipment to make it work. 110 00:12:28,829.08163265 --> 00:12:31,298.98163265 And sometimes that can even involve. 111 00:12:32,299.08163265 --> 00:12:39,479.08163265 Getting a waiver from a training agency and saying, all right, I know you think that this is the minimum tank size that someone should wear. 112 00:12:39,719.08163265 --> 00:12:46,149.08163265 However, with this person who's only got really the use of half of their body, we need to go a little bit smaller with the tanks. 113 00:12:46,179.08163265 --> 00:12:51,308.98163265 And all that's going to do is shorten their range within a cave diving area. 114 00:12:51,639.08163265 --> 00:12:52,309.08163265 environment. 115 00:12:52,309.08163265 --> 00:12:56,519.08163265 So there's nothing wrong with someone diving closer to the entrance of the cave. 116 00:12:56,719.08163265 --> 00:13:02,629.08163265 They need the same skills because they're in the overhead environment, but they don't have to go to the back of the cave to be a cave diver. 117 00:13:03,99.08163265 --> 00:13:11,609.08163265 Um, so I, I love helping to find those interesting solutions that, that are unique and work for, you know, one individual. 118 00:13:12,774.08063265 --> 00:13:32,984.08163265 which is incredible because I have, I know I found this year when I started diving like I tried down the pool in Cozumel, came back, got a refresher again, and I was, and it was actually through a friend of mine, Robin, at Bob's Dive Shop, where I originally got certified back in 1991. 119 00:13:34,44.08063265 --> 00:13:39,304.08063265 And, um, so Robin said, you know what, I'm going to make you do a full full refresher. 120 00:13:39,569.08163265 --> 00:13:40,259.08163265 Okay, cool. 121 00:13:40,859.08163265 --> 00:13:41,429.08163265 So I did. 122 00:13:41,469.08163265 --> 00:13:42,599.08163265 I'm glad she did. 123 00:13:43,369.08163265 --> 00:13:51,429.08163265 But then the issue was when I went to go diving, so I go out, get all my dive gear, I go and get a dry suit and everything else. 124 00:13:51,979.08063265 --> 00:14:05,859.08163265 And luckily, I had a dive buddy who actually was a dive master, who actually has been an unbelievable amount of help just helping me adjust gear and figure out how to do stuff. 125 00:14:06,419.08163265 --> 00:14:14,158.98163265 Because I literally had nobody adaptive that was doing this type of thing to turn to to ask. 126 00:14:14,629.08163265 --> 00:14:16,979.08163265 So I had to make up stuff on the fly. 127 00:14:17,9.08163265 --> 00:14:21,819.08163265 I can't count how many times I drove all the way up to Tobermory, get in there. 128 00:14:21,819.08163265 --> 00:14:28,419.08163265 And then it's like, we do some testing and that's like, okay, well, we're not diving today, but I mean, at least that the tugs, I got to see a shipwreck. 129 00:14:28,739.08163265 --> 00:14:29,219.08163265 Right. 130 00:14:29,579.08163265 --> 00:14:30,279.08163265 Yeah. 131 00:14:31,369.08163265 --> 00:14:38,489.08163265 You know, for me, like, I started diving at a time when the gear wasn't female specific. 132 00:14:38,809.08163265 --> 00:14:41,89.08163265 And so that's kind of where my journey began. 133 00:14:41,89.08163265 --> 00:14:50,919.04796599 And it might sound trivial, but, but it's so important, because like, when gear is just made for a man, then the shoulder straps are too wide. 134 00:14:50,934.08163265 --> 00:14:55,684.08163265 They fall off a woman's shoulders, like, you know, our, our necks are thinner. 135 00:14:55,704.08163265 --> 00:15:03,684.08163265 And so the dry suit seal that we pull over our head that just about takes the skin off our nose, um, is still too big around our necks. 136 00:15:03,714.08163265 --> 00:15:06,604.08113265 You know, our bodies contour differently. 137 00:15:06,604.08113265 --> 00:15:07,694.08063265 Our weight is distributed. 138 00:15:07,714.08163265 --> 00:15:09,924.08063265 Our buoyancy is distributed differently. 139 00:15:09,974.08063265 --> 00:15:11,294.08063265 And, and. 140 00:15:11,714.08163265 --> 00:15:13,174.08163265 You know, everything changes. 141 00:15:13,374.08163265 --> 00:15:18,884.08163265 If you've got this, like, tight chest strap across a woman with big boobs, it's incredibly uncomfortable. 142 00:15:19,394.08163265 --> 00:15:28,634.08163265 Uh, so, right from the beginning, I had to adapt the gear that I was given in order for it to work for me, especially when it came to tech diving. 143 00:15:29,54.08163265 --> 00:15:38,549.08163265 And And still, um, we have a long way to go with women's gear, but so I was used to having to do that. 144 00:15:38,639.08163265 --> 00:15:42,629.08163265 And, and I've always said to people, there's not one solution. 145 00:15:43,9.08163265 --> 00:15:47,458.98163265 And then the other thing to remember is that survival doesn't necessarily have to be the answer. 146 00:15:47,559.08163265 --> 00:15:48,19.08163265 pretty. 147 00:15:48,819.08163265 --> 00:15:57,479.08163265 It doesn't have to follow this, you know, rote technique that looks like perfect on, on YouTube, because that's not how emergencies go down. 148 00:15:57,489.08163265 --> 00:16:00,769.08163265 Like, survival doesn't have to be pretty, it just has to be effective. 149 00:16:02,309.08063265 --> 00:16:06,259.08163265 You just have to know what to do and how to do it for you to get yourself out of a problem. 150 00:16:06,729.08163265 --> 00:16:19,584.08163265 And, And so there's not one way and maybe I'm a bit of a pariah for that, but, uh, I think the whole scuba community could use a little, a few lessons from adaptive scuba. 151 00:16:21,129.08163265 --> 00:16:25,829.08163265 it's, it's, uh, really awesome to see how these guys adapt there. 152 00:16:25,869.08163265 --> 00:16:30,69.08163265 I'm really looking forward to seeing how these guys actually adapt their gear. 153 00:16:30,379.08163265 --> 00:16:33,229.08163265 And what they have to do to overcome their disability. 154 00:16:33,799.08163265 --> 00:16:40,49.0816327 And I mean, I, to see, I, I really want to meet this, uh, paraplegic who's doing the cave diving stuff. 155 00:16:40,454.0816327 --> 00:16:41,274.0816327 Oh, yeah. 156 00:16:41,459.0816327 --> 00:16:41,779.0816327 yeah. 157 00:16:41,779.0816327 --> 00:16:42,269.0811327 Oh yeah. 158 00:16:42,269.0811327 --> 00:16:42,559.0806327 Yeah. 159 00:16:42,559.0806327 --> 00:16:48,479.0816327 I'm, I'm super excited to actually go down and assist the dive with these guys because they're going to kick my butt. 160 00:16:48,899.0816327 --> 00:17:08,164.0806327 To want to do better and do more stuff that I until now thought was, yeah, not going to happen, Oh, one of my, you know, best, you know, friends that I've met through Hubert is a woman who's, who's, uh, paraplegic and she is an absolutely extraordinary diver and she's, she's intro to cave qualified. 161 00:17:08,164.0816327 --> 00:17:19,274.0816327 She'd be She'd be full cave qualified, except that there's just a couple of, you know, hiccups in terms of checking the boxes for, for the, uh, general standards, but she's absolutely exceptional. 162 00:17:19,274.0816327 --> 00:17:22,204.0806327 And I love, love, love diving with her. 163 00:17:23,329.0816327 --> 00:17:28,839.0806327 which is incredible when so let's talk sidemount for for a bit. 164 00:17:29,149.0816327 --> 00:17:32,939.0806327 Um, I mean, you do a lot of sidemount diving with cave diving. 165 00:17:32,939.0816327 --> 00:17:37,99.0816327 Obviously, I'm just starting to take up sidemount. 166 00:17:37,319.0816327 --> 00:17:41,749.0816327 Um, it was funny because when I first got back into diving again. 167 00:17:42,329.0816327 --> 00:17:48,219.0816327 There's a there's a retired military guy that I happen to meet when I started buying gear. 168 00:17:48,269.0816327 --> 00:17:54,899.0816327 He's been helping me out and He actually has worked with people with disabilities and stuff the first time I went over there. 169 00:17:54,899.0816327 --> 00:17:57,719.0816327 I said, you know You should think about doing sidemount Yeah. 170 00:17:57,719.0816327 --> 00:17:58,179.0816327 Yeah. 171 00:17:58,249.0816327 --> 00:17:59,949.0806327 And I'm like sidemount. 172 00:18:00,209.0816327 --> 00:18:10,734.0816327 Wow, that's full cave like I'm not doing cave stuff No, it side mount makes so much sense, you know, for redundancy, for carrying the gear out of the water. 173 00:18:10,734.1816327 --> 00:18:11,434.0816327 Right. 174 00:18:11,434.0816327 --> 00:18:12,133.9816327 Yeah. 175 00:18:12,874.0816327 --> 00:18:14,864.0816327 that's actually why I'm looking at it. 176 00:18:14,884.0816327 --> 00:18:27,779.0816327 I and why I'm getting certified with it mainly because of my legs and getting in and out of the water, um, especially, uh, especially even on shore dives, like, even at the tugs up that told me where I Mm hmm. 177 00:18:28,364.0816327 --> 00:18:29,264.0816327 can get in. 178 00:18:29,274.0816327 --> 00:18:31,74.0816327 But generally, I'll take a few steps. 179 00:18:31,114.0816327 --> 00:18:35,444.0816327 I'll go down on my knees and then sort of drag myself out to where the other guys are. 180 00:18:35,694.0816327 --> 00:18:38,464.0816327 Mm I just don't have the stability of my leg. 181 00:18:39,84.0816327 --> 00:18:48,154.0816327 And, um, wetsuit boots, as you know, provide no stability for a leg and dry suit over boots. 182 00:18:48,589.0816327 --> 00:18:50,219.0816327 Which I wear all the time. 183 00:18:50,219.0816327 --> 00:18:52,969.0816327 They actually, they actually do provide a bit. 184 00:18:53,169.0816327 --> 00:19:00,669.0816327 If there are any, uh, dry suit overboot manufacturers out there and you have one, that's got a, uh, thicker ankle in it with more hmm. 185 00:19:00,669.0816327 --> 00:19:01,179.0816327 Mm hmm. 186 00:19:01,289.0806327 --> 00:19:02,279.0806327 please email me. 187 00:19:03,434.0816327 --> 00:19:04,524.0816327 Mm hmm. 188 00:19:05,229.0806327 --> 00:19:06,609.0811327 But, uh, yeah. 189 00:19:06,609.0811327 --> 00:19:15,984.0806327 So what, what do you find? What do you like most about when you're diving sidemount? Um, everything. 190 00:19:16,244.0816327 --> 00:19:18,510.7812993 I dove sidemount before I dove backmounted doubles. 191 00:19:18,510.7812993 --> 00:19:36,959.0806327 So sidemount was, uh, Just so logical to me, especially in exploration, because, you know, getting a set of manifold doubles lowered down, you know, into a cenote on rope is like super dangerous and heavy, right? So side mount just always made sense for me. 192 00:19:36,999.0806327 --> 00:19:40,59.0816327 But I'm going to mention one thing before we leave your last comment. 193 00:19:40,629.0816327 --> 00:19:52,769.0816327 Um, You know, the combat boots that Converse makes that, um, they're like a high top running shoe, but extra high with a lot of ankle support. 194 00:19:53,429.0806327 --> 00:19:56,869.0816327 Get a size that's like two sizes larger than your normal foot. 195 00:19:56,899.0816327 --> 00:19:59,599.0816327 It makes a great dry suit boot that has stability. 196 00:19:59,629.0816327 --> 00:20:00,9.0816327 Yeah. 197 00:20:00,379.0816327 --> 00:20:00,589.0811327 Yeah. 198 00:20:00,589.0811327 --> 00:20:02,539.0816327 It doesn't have to be designed for the dry suit. 199 00:20:03,259.0816327 --> 00:20:04,159.0816327 So yeah. 200 00:20:04,159.0816327 --> 00:20:07,909.0816326 Converse like, uh, desert army boots, basically. 201 00:20:08,239.0816326 --> 00:20:15,254.0816327 Um, you need extra large fins to get them over the, The heavy sole, but it'll give you the support that you might want around your ankle. 202 00:20:15,659.0816327 --> 00:20:16,369.0816327 oh, awesome. 203 00:20:16,399.0816327 --> 00:20:16,939.0816327 Thank you. 204 00:20:17,49.0816327 --> 00:20:20,79.0816327 I'm, I'm so glad because that's one of the things I hate. 205 00:20:20,539.0816326 --> 00:20:31,729.0816326 because a lot of cavers, like cavers that do sump diving, they wear things like that because they need this ability to do the dry caving and they need something they can also go into the water with. 206 00:20:31,759.0816326 --> 00:20:40,529.0806326 And, and yeah, so just usually two sizes up from your normal will fit over your dry suit socks and stuff, depending on how many. 207 00:20:40,739.0816326 --> 00:20:41,739.0816326 you know, how thick they are. 208 00:20:41,799.0816326 --> 00:20:42,109.0816326 Yeah. 209 00:20:42,299.0816326 --> 00:20:45,29.0816326 definitely looking at that right away. 210 00:20:45,409.0816326 --> 00:20:46,799.0816326 skip the dive manufacturers. 211 00:20:46,799.0816326 --> 00:20:47,349.0816326 Go outside. 212 00:20:47,854.0816327 --> 00:20:50,109.0816326 This Sorry. 213 00:20:50,229.0816326 --> 00:20:53,909.0816326 I have you on so I can get all these extra tips on how to do this type of stuff. 214 00:20:54,139.0816326 --> 00:20:56,589.0816326 But you were asking me another question and I diverted back. 215 00:20:57,429.0816326 --> 00:20:58,19.0816326 Sorry. 216 00:20:58,19.1816326 --> 00:20:59,298.9806326 Yeah. 217 00:20:59,299.0806326 --> 00:20:59,809.0806326 Yeah. 218 00:21:00,314.0816326 --> 00:21:08,724.0816326 When, when it comes to your stuff with, uh, I know that you do a lot of stuff on rebreathers, especially in cave diving. 219 00:21:09,224.0816326 --> 00:21:15,14.0816326 Can you, now I know talking to Hubert, he says it's brutal diving in the caves on a rebreather. 220 00:21:15,684.0816326 --> 00:21:25,564.0816326 Um, can you tell me exactly what the challenge is and why it's so extra difficult when you're diving on a rebreather in a cave system? Yeah. 221 00:21:25,614.0816326 --> 00:21:37,264.0811326 Um, to begin with, probably no surprise to me, like rebreathers are a tool, like I know a lot of people say, once you're on a rebreather, you just can't switch back and forth between it and open circuit. 222 00:21:37,264.0811326 --> 00:21:41,414.0816326 And I'm like, why not? You know, maybe it's because you just made it. 223 00:21:41,674.1816326 --> 00:21:43,754.0816326 12, 000 investment. 224 00:21:43,764.0816326 --> 00:21:46,144.0816326 But, um, but no, like it's a tool. 225 00:21:46,794.0816326 --> 00:21:50,374.0816326 And there's some environments where it's not easy to dive with. 226 00:21:50,434.0816326 --> 00:22:02,874.0806326 Uh, and those environments would generally, generally be things that are shallow and, um, especially shallow overhead environments where you have to stick to a particular path so you don't damage the environment. 227 00:22:03,314.0816326 --> 00:22:09,704.0816326 Um, because we're all used to inhaling and rising up in open circuit, exhaling and dropping down. 228 00:22:10,69.0816326 --> 00:22:16,209.0816326 But on a rebreather, when you inhale and exhale, all you're doing is transferring gas between your lungs and a counter lung. 229 00:22:16,679.0816326 --> 00:22:19,169.0811326 And so you're not shifting your buoyancy at all. 230 00:22:19,169.0811326 --> 00:22:20,629.0816326 You're dead flat. 231 00:22:21,29.0816326 --> 00:22:31,209.0816326 And so rebreather divers, in order to control buoyancy, but also control their path, will often like swim around something rather than up and over. 232 00:22:31,209.0816326 --> 00:22:33,181.8026853 Cause as they go up, they've got to vent some gas. 233 00:22:33,181.8026853 --> 00:22:39,579.0816327 They go down, they've got to add some gas and we're all like molecule misers on rebreathers. 234 00:22:40,429.0816326 --> 00:22:42,839.0816326 Yeah, so there's sometimes it's not a good tool. 235 00:22:42,839.0816326 --> 00:22:53,739.0816326 Like I remember an expedition in the Channel Islands off California, and the plan was to use our rebreathers for this deep cave exploration there where we were doing some photogrammetry. 236 00:22:53,739.0816326 --> 00:22:56,849.0816326 And we had a lot of scientific gear to carry as well. 237 00:22:57,299.0806326 --> 00:23:04,554.0816326 But on the far side of the Channel Islands, you've got the entire force of the Pacific Ocean causing this unbelievable surge. 238 00:23:04,554.0816326 --> 00:23:16,874.0806326 So we were literally being sucked into the cave and shot back out literally like, you know, a hundred feet in and a hundred feet out on a single surge of wave, but also like buoyancy shifts. 239 00:23:16,874.0816326 --> 00:23:20,24.0826326 And, and I was literally underwater barfing. 240 00:23:24,404.0816326 --> 00:23:29,849.0816326 In a rebreather? Or Trying to, yeah, close the loop, blah, put the loop back in, open. 241 00:23:30,179.0816326 --> 00:23:33,99.0816326 And I swam back to the boat and just went, no, no. 242 00:23:33,99.0816326 --> 00:23:38,129.0816326 And I took off the rebreather and went back to side mount where it was a lot easier to control that. 243 00:23:40,159.0816326 --> 00:23:40,869.0806326 And barf. 244 00:23:41,439.0806326 --> 00:23:41,749.0806326 Yeah. 245 00:23:42,494.0816326 --> 00:23:46,774.0816326 Okay, so for all the seasick people out there, at least, you know, even Jill gets seasick. 246 00:23:46,799.0816326 --> 00:23:47,69.0816326 Yeah. 247 00:23:47,219.0816326 --> 00:23:47,529.0816326 Sure. 248 00:23:47,979.0816326 --> 00:23:49,389.0816326 Everybody does at some point. 249 00:23:50,549.0816326 --> 00:23:50,699.0816326 Yeah. 250 00:23:51,594.0816326 --> 00:23:52,294.0816326 Hi, everyone. 251 00:23:52,294.0816326 --> 00:23:54,344.0816326 Thanks for tuning into the Deadfoot Diver. 252 00:23:54,714.0816326 --> 00:23:57,564.0816326 Subscribe and share your support means the world to me. 253 00:23:58,104.0816326 --> 00:24:02,364.0816326 If you'd like to contribute directly, you can do so at the link in the description at buymeacoffee. 254 00:24:03,4.0816326 --> 00:24:16,814.0816326 com slash deadfoot diver, every donation helps me work towards earning my adaptive dive buddy certification, travel costs to help me assist other adaptive divers and covering further training and equipment costs. 255 00:24:17,109.0816326 --> 00:24:19,899.0816326 Bringing you on even more exciting adventures. 256 00:24:21,309.0816326 --> 00:24:30,339.0816326 Don't forget to check out my guest links in the description and remember grab an adventure and live and don't ever let a disability. 257 00:24:30,339.0816326 --> 00:24:31,149.0816326 Keep you down. 258 00:24:31,477.0816326 --> 00:24:38,777.0806326 So, when you, what would you say out of, I mean, you, you've dove most of the planet. 259 00:24:39,437.0816326 --> 00:24:42,77.0806326 Um, and that's not an exaggeration at all. 260 00:24:42,87.0806326 --> 00:24:49,952.0816326 So, and more than a lot of other people, you have over 7, 000 Yeah, actually, I recently went over eight. 261 00:24:49,952.0816326 --> 00:24:51,587.0816326 So You went over eight. 262 00:24:52,587.0816326 --> 00:25:01,392.0816326 Whoa, how many dives do you do in a year generally? Uh, well, the last few years have been slower, but at least a couple hundred dives a year. 263 00:25:01,442.0806326 --> 00:25:04,167.0816326 Yeah, yeah, that's amazing. 264 00:25:04,217.0816326 --> 00:25:14,507.0816326 So out of all the places that you dove, because you dove the Antarctica, I mean you, you've been a pioneer explorer in all kinds of different cave systems. 265 00:25:14,987.0816326 --> 00:25:18,397.0816326 with 3D mapping and doing all kinds of amazing stuff. 266 00:25:19,517.0816326 --> 00:25:53,297.0816326 would you say is your most crowning achievement as far as a dive from a perspective of how you had to prepare for it and what you did for it? I think the dives I did, um, during the Wakulla 2 project back in the late 90s were Like huge for me, like really pivotal in my, in my career, um, we were making the world's first three dimensional maps of any underground space and we were doing it on rebreathers and, and in the late nineties, that was, that was pretty fresh. 267 00:25:54,707.0816326 --> 00:25:58,7.0816326 So my longest dives on those missions were like. 268 00:25:58,137.1816326 --> 00:26:00,97.0816326 20, 22 hours. 269 00:26:00,167.0816326 --> 00:26:03,67.0816326 Um, yeah, yeah. 270 00:26:03,77.0816326 --> 00:26:06,147.0816326 So, um, huge, huge dives. 271 00:26:06,147.0816326 --> 00:26:11,57.0811326 And it, it really, it took me two years of training and preparation for those dives. 272 00:26:11,57.0811326 --> 00:26:14,727.0816326 And at the time we didn't even have rebreather classes. 273 00:26:14,737.0816326 --> 00:26:21,827.0816326 Like when I got the cislunar mark five and asked Bill, you know, who was going to teach me, he's like, well, we don't have a class. 274 00:26:22,187.0816326 --> 00:26:22,947.0816326 You'll figure it out. 275 00:26:24,697.0816326 --> 00:26:30,967.0816326 Yeah, so it was more like kind of crowdsourcing information from the few people that that were in the game back then. 276 00:26:31,977.0816326 --> 00:26:38,327.0816326 But it was pivotal for me because up until that point, scientists didn't take cave divers very seriously. 277 00:26:38,327.0816326 --> 00:26:45,537.0816326 They kind of looked at us like adrenaline junkies out to get ourselves killed and and for some reason that was a bit valid. 278 00:26:45,537.0816326 --> 00:26:47,47.0816326 There were a lot of, a lot. 279 00:26:47,202.0816326 --> 00:27:04,802.0811326 More accidents, you know, back then and after that project, they realized like the scientific data that we could bring to people that would never have the capability of going to places where we were going, um, suddenly we had a new relationship with the scientific community. 280 00:27:04,802.0811326 --> 00:27:10,862.0816326 And for me, that, that helped me to really pinpoint my way forward in a career. 281 00:27:11,977.0816326 --> 00:27:19,957.0816326 That's amazing because I, I know that like, when I started back in the 90s, tech diving was definitely on the fringe. 282 00:27:20,397.0816326 --> 00:27:28,557.0816326 I was, um, I was actually just getting into doing a bit of decompression diving and technical diving with doubles and stuff when I stopped diving. 283 00:27:29,207.0806326 --> 00:27:34,842.0811326 And I mean, back then, even Nitrox was bad know, voodoo gas. 284 00:27:35,37.0816326 --> 00:27:38,317.0816327 Oh yeah, I was actually just going to say that. 285 00:27:38,712.0816326 --> 00:27:39,252.0816326 Yeah. 286 00:27:39,712.0816326 --> 00:27:39,982.0816326 Yeah. 287 00:27:39,982.0816326 --> 00:27:45,912.0816326 For those that weren't around diving back then, there was the most popular dive magazine, Skin Diver Magazine. 288 00:27:46,282.0816326 --> 00:27:52,342.0816326 Um, the entire issue was dedicated to why nitrox is a bad idea and why it's dangerous. 289 00:27:52,752.0816326 --> 00:28:03,412.0816326 And I don't know if you know the roots of, of why that issue came out, but back then I was on the Cayman Island, uh, Water Sports Operators Association. 290 00:28:03,882.0816326 --> 00:28:08,82.0816326 And, um, Cayman was the biggest dive destination in the world. 291 00:28:08,232.0816326 --> 00:28:09,12.0816326 We bought. 292 00:28:09,342.0816326 --> 00:28:20,802.0816326 The most advertising in Skin Diver magazine, like, you know, the magazine was buoyed up by the Cayman Islands, uh, tourism industry, but there were some operators in Cayman that were just. 293 00:28:21,292.0816326 --> 00:28:23,832.0816326 You know, turning around boats like crazy. 294 00:28:24,232.0816326 --> 00:28:28,252.0816326 And they were afraid that if people had nitrox, they wouldn't stay down longer. 295 00:28:29,292.0816326 --> 00:28:33,352.0816326 So if they stay down longer, maybe you don't get four turnovers a day. 296 00:28:33,942.0816326 --> 00:28:36,862.0816326 Um, and so it was a bottom line kind of thing. 297 00:28:36,862.0816326 --> 00:28:38,462.0811326 Oh, we have to mix a different gas. 298 00:28:38,462.0811326 --> 00:28:40,502.0806326 We don't really understand this gas. 299 00:28:40,572.0816326 --> 00:28:44,862.0816326 Um, and it may mean we put less people on the boats every day. 300 00:28:45,347.0816326 --> 00:28:46,507.0816326 lower bottom line. 301 00:28:46,957.0816326 --> 00:29:04,497.0816326 Um, so it was really interesting, but what turned the tide was that the one company and came in that had the most staff decompression illness hits, we decided to put the entire staff on nitrox for a year and see, you know, how this could change things. 302 00:29:04,497.0816326 --> 00:29:08,622.0816326 And these people were diving You know, four dives a day, deep, shallow, deep, shallow kind of thing. 303 00:29:09,142.0816326 --> 00:29:13,292.0816326 Um, and after they got on nitrox, nobody got bent anymore. 304 00:29:13,362.0816326 --> 00:29:16,682.0816326 So doing the same profiles they'd been doing. 305 00:29:17,92.0816326 --> 00:29:19,82.0816326 Uh, and it's like, Oh, okay. 306 00:29:19,82.0816326 --> 00:29:21,712.0806326 I guess that whole voodoo gas thing was a mistake. 307 00:29:23,617.0816326 --> 00:29:30,567.0816326 know, I, I got certified in Nitrox back in 1996, um, actually by Dick Rutowski. 308 00:29:30,772.0806326 --> 00:29:31,522.0806326 Oh, cool. 309 00:29:31,607.0816326 --> 00:29:38,17.0811326 Yeah, he was, he was actually my, I did a course with him and a couple of, uh, uh, technical. 310 00:29:38,17.0811326 --> 00:29:44,627.0816326 There are, I think, five other instructor buddies of Yeah, at the, when Underwater Canada show. 311 00:29:45,22.0816326 --> 00:30:20,837.0816326 yeah, yeah, We all took the course from Dick that year and we actually took a lot of heat from other instructors I bet, About yeah, nitrox at the time We we actually the organization that I taught for we actually that we all did And we actually got pulled aside and we're like, hey, you guys can't be doing this, you know, blah blah blah blah yeah, yeah, it was all very secretive back then, like, you know, garage mixing and everything else, um, yeah, but, but yeah, those early 90s when I was in Cayman, um, The, the operation I worked for had a waiver. 312 00:30:21,247.0816326 --> 00:30:26,417.0806326 The rest of the island had very strict, like, max depth and types of dives and everything. 313 00:30:26,417.0816326 --> 00:30:31,937.0816326 We had a waiver because we were on the wild side of the island, and we're doing stuff a little bit deeper and a little bit different. 314 00:30:31,937.0816326 --> 00:30:37,707.0816326 And so I was like screaming for nitrox and tech diving, and we weren't even calling it tech diving back then. 315 00:30:39,182.0816327 --> 00:30:50,212.0806327 But yeah, it was a, it was a tough, a tough pill to swallow, but you look at Cayman today and it's actually a great destination for recreational and technical diving. 316 00:30:50,212.0816327 --> 00:30:54,582.0816327 There's lots of support for people that are diving deeper or on rebreathers or whatever. 317 00:30:55,387.0816327 --> 00:30:59,867.0816327 Yeah, which is awesome that they've, they've, uh, enabled that. 318 00:30:59,897.0816327 --> 00:31:08,957.0816327 I mean, I was shocked last year when I went to Cozumel and, um, when I signed up for the snorkeling trip and I was looking at the board. 319 00:31:09,547.0816327 --> 00:31:19,37.0816327 With who was diving nitrox and who was diving air and there were literally out of like four boats there were Two or three divers out of the whole list that were done. 320 00:31:19,157.0816327 --> 00:31:21,322.0826327 We're not diving nitrox Yeah. 321 00:31:21,382.0816327 --> 00:31:21,662.0816327 Yeah. 322 00:31:21,662.0816327 --> 00:31:25,247.0806327 Isn't that something? So yeah, it's it's awesome. 323 00:31:25,247.0816327 --> 00:31:28,257.0806327 And I I definitely believe in the safety factor in it. 324 00:31:28,307.0816327 --> 00:31:42,852.0816327 I mean anybody who's read enough stuff on it can and Talks to people like you You know, you're, you're probably about the best one experience with doing more nitrox dives than anybody. 325 00:31:43,952.0816327 --> 00:31:45,362.0816327 Yeah, I've done a few. 326 00:31:48,182.0816327 --> 00:32:19,822.0816327 So, when, um, when you're, uh, cave diving, and when you're getting ready to do all these, um, all these deep dives and stuff like that, do you guys, a lot of the focus I've noticed since I started diving again this year, Is a trend towards not teaching dive tables and not teaching, um, the risks of decompression sickness Ouch. 327 00:32:21,362.0806327 --> 00:32:27,617.0816327 Basically saying here's your computer follow your computer Ouch. 328 00:32:29,987.0816327 --> 00:32:36,562.0816327 What's your opinion on that? Well, I guess I'm an old school purist. 329 00:32:37,782.0816327 --> 00:32:47,672.0806327 I mean, you know, when I learned, uh, tech diving and, and, and trimix and everything, it was all manual calculated. 330 00:32:48,812.0816327 --> 00:32:55,32.0816327 And you calculated your, your tables, you calculated your 10 foot deeper tables. 331 00:32:55,32.0816327 --> 00:32:58,202.0811327 You had all kinds of contingencies all manually mapped out. 332 00:32:58,202.0811327 --> 00:33:01,952.0816327 You calculated, you know, oxygen exposures manually. 333 00:33:02,832.0806327 --> 00:33:04,966.9816327 And so I want people to understand like. 334 00:33:05,417.0816327 --> 00:33:17,7.0816327 Like, what is the computer doing? You know, like a lot of people who get into tech diving, there's a lot of concepts that are quite foreign, whether it's your gradient factors or whatever else. 335 00:33:17,7.0816327 --> 00:33:19,937.0806327 And most people go, Oh yeah, I understand gradient factors. 336 00:33:19,947.0806327 --> 00:33:21,387.0816327 It's like, probably not. 337 00:33:22,992.0816327 --> 00:33:27,282.0816327 So I'm going to, I'm going to do this lecture anyway and hopefully make this, make this simpler. 338 00:33:27,642.0816327 --> 00:33:35,382.0806327 Um, so you have to understand what that device is doing and you have to have a plan for how you're going to manage yourself if it fails. 339 00:33:35,452.0806327 --> 00:33:47,12.0816327 Um, there are a lot of people who just kind of jump in the water and do what the computer tells them as opposed to even pre planning it, a dive and, and I'm a real fan of plans and checklists. 340 00:33:48,767.0816327 --> 00:33:51,992.0816327 Especially diving rebreathers, I mean Oh, God. 341 00:33:51,992.0816327 --> 00:33:52,312.0816327 Yeah. 342 00:33:52,312.0816327 --> 00:34:03,842.0816327 It's inexcusable if you don't use a checklist, like, and I feel, you know, very well qualified to say, you know what, after 8000 dives, I still use a checklist every time I use that rebreather. 343 00:34:03,882.0816327 --> 00:34:09,892.0806327 And it's not a matter of, like, I could tell you that checklist word for word right now. 344 00:34:10,202.0816327 --> 00:34:11,832.0816327 But we get distracted. 345 00:34:11,982.0816327 --> 00:34:28,407.0811327 And we're out in a beautiful world, you know, someone needs a mouthpiece, someone needs something, and suddenly, you know, You've cut that checklist in half in your brain, so it should be on paper, um, or, you know, electronic, whatever method. 346 00:34:28,407.0811327 --> 00:34:32,357.0816327 But you should be going through something that's physical, that's a reminder. 347 00:34:32,747.0816327 --> 00:34:37,347.0816327 Because, you know, human errors are human errors because we're human and we make mistakes. 348 00:34:37,777.0806327 --> 00:34:42,237.0816327 Um, and so I feel my life is worth preventing those mistakes. 349 00:34:43,117.0816327 --> 00:34:47,687.0816327 Yeah, I mean the consequences of a rebreather are serious death. 350 00:34:48,507.0816327 --> 00:34:48,917.0816327 Yeah. 351 00:34:49,152.0816327 --> 00:34:50,102.0816327 No way around it. 352 00:34:50,357.0816327 --> 00:34:59,722.0816327 And we don't find dead guys with checklists, like, yeah, it's, I mean, I had John Chatterton on the other day and he said the same thing. 353 00:34:59,722.0816327 --> 00:35:03,2.0816327 He says every death on the Doria is diver error. 354 00:35:03,477.0816327 --> 00:35:04,427.0816327 of course, yeah. 355 00:35:04,467.0816327 --> 00:35:14,647.0806327 And you know what? When we look at rebreather failures and issues, uh, that caused a cause to death, we can look at the true root cause of these accidents and find that. 356 00:35:15,42.0816327 --> 00:35:21,192.0816327 90 percent of those issues could have been prevented by an action taken before the person went in the water. 357 00:35:21,632.0816327 --> 00:35:25,682.0816327 So, they made a bad decision on the surface, it had nothing to do with what happened underwater. 358 00:35:26,677.0816327 --> 00:35:46,12.0806327 So when you, when you're prepping for rebreather dive, how, like how many days before are you starting to work on your gear and do checklists? Cause I've heard people say that Like if they're diving on Saturday, they're starting to check their gear and go through their checklist multiple times starting on like Monday hmm. 359 00:35:46,22.0816327 --> 00:35:57,412.0816327 Yeah, I mean, it, it, it's Just through experience, stuff can happen or, um, I mean, yeah, I've got to do an annual service, of course, on my rebreather every year. 360 00:35:57,412.0816327 --> 00:35:59,352.0806327 And so that's part of the preparation. 361 00:35:59,722.0806327 --> 00:36:04,682.0806327 I need to get the rebreather together, but I also need to get me and the rebreather together. 362 00:36:04,697.0816327 --> 00:36:05,197.0816327 too. 363 00:36:05,207.0816327 --> 00:36:12,477.0816327 So I may need to jump in the, in the river out back and, and just refresh my skills as well, if they're, if they're rusty. 364 00:36:12,887.0816327 --> 00:36:21,707.0806327 So yeah, it does depend, but definitely like, even if I'm fresh and constant and everything else, I like to have the rebreather ready the night before and tested. 365 00:36:22,17.0816327 --> 00:36:38,127.0806327 And then it's a quick, Retest in the morning before I go diving because it's just nice to go to sleep knowing there's no issues because I've said this before, um, in fact, it's a bit of a grim story like this would be about almost 20 years ago. 366 00:36:38,127.0816327 --> 00:36:46,697.0816327 I was sitting on a boat when my Optima rebreather that I was diving at the time failed just as I was about to jump in the water and it had passed its pre dive checks. 367 00:36:47,327.0816327 --> 00:36:48,877.0816327 And I went, Oh, huh. 368 00:36:49,197.0816327 --> 00:36:54,482.0816327 And I sat down and everyone's like, what, what's going on? And I said, Oh, you know, My rebreather just failed. 369 00:36:54,482.0816327 --> 00:36:56,732.0816327 So I'm, you know, sorry, I'm going to be snorkeling. 370 00:36:56,732.0816327 --> 00:37:00,652.0816327 It's a little too close to, you know, jump time to, to deal with this. 371 00:37:00,692.0816327 --> 00:37:04,512.0816327 And they're like, Oh, Oh, but, but you can run it manually. 372 00:37:05,472.0806327 --> 00:37:12,422.0806327 And I'm like, yeah, I can run it manually, but I'm not going to, if there's one thing you learn from me, I do not jump in the water. 373 00:37:12,877.0816327 --> 00:37:14,507.0816327 with something that's already broken. 374 00:37:14,517.0816327 --> 00:37:21,197.0816327 Like, like if you had a checklist that says this is the minimum requirement for the rebreather to go diving, then you've got to stick with it. 375 00:37:21,237.0816327 --> 00:37:25,837.0816327 So two out of three sensors means you sit on the bench and you don't go diving. 376 00:37:26,97.0816327 --> 00:37:33,707.0806327 Where a lot of people have gone diving with two out of three sensors and then ultimately didn't come home. 377 00:37:34,422.0816327 --> 00:37:42,282.0806327 Yeah, I I've um, I've talked to several people who? Have known of people who passed away by using a rebreathers. 378 00:37:42,922.0806327 --> 00:37:45,117.0816327 Um when I was Younger. 379 00:37:45,137.0816327 --> 00:37:47,497.0816327 I absolutely wanted to do a rebreather. 380 00:37:47,577.0816327 --> 00:37:50,97.0816327 It was at the time was cutting edge and stuff. 381 00:37:50,557.0816327 --> 00:38:04,257.0816327 And not only that, the depth restrictions that enabled and how long I'd be able to stay underwater for, um, now with my old age, or since I'm 55, I mean, I'm not I'm older than you are. 382 00:38:05,87.0806327 --> 00:38:08,67.0806327 yeah, you're a couple of years older than me. 383 00:38:08,137.0816327 --> 00:38:09,397.0816327 I'm a few years older. 384 00:38:09,737.0806327 --> 00:38:11,497.0816327 Um, Yeah. 385 00:38:13,257.0816327 --> 00:38:22,967.0806327 But with that, um, and also I have ADHD, so I mean, I forget stuff, especially when I'm excited about doing something or whatever, Yeah. 386 00:38:23,807.0816327 --> 00:38:25,657.0811327 um, for the podcast. 387 00:38:25,657.0811327 --> 00:38:32,297.0806327 Eventually, I'm hoping I'm going to get to do a rebreather this session in a pool, like to do it just to try it and experience it. 388 00:38:33,67.0816327 --> 00:38:42,777.0816327 Um, I'm pretty sure after everybody I've talked to about rebreathers and the preparation and the checklist involved, I'm going to be out after that point. 389 00:38:43,197.0816327 --> 00:38:43,827.0816327 Fair enough. 390 00:38:43,897.0816327 --> 00:38:44,357.0816327 Yeah. 391 00:38:45,307.0816327 --> 00:38:45,917.0816327 Yeah. 392 00:38:46,707.0816327 --> 00:38:47,7.0816327 Yeah. 393 00:38:47,7.0816327 --> 00:38:48,267.0816327 It's not for everybody. 394 00:38:48,267.0816327 --> 00:38:59,87.0816327 And, and, you know, as I said before, it's a tool and, and so if it's a tool that enables a type of diving that you're ready for and want to engage in, great. 395 00:38:59,117.0806327 --> 00:39:02,627.0816327 But yeah, it's not for everybody and it's not needed by everybody. 396 00:39:02,627.0816327 --> 00:39:07,107.0816327 It's a, it's a big investment, oh, yeah, they're definitely not cheap. 397 00:39:07,487.0816327 --> 00:39:08,27.0816327 Yeah. 398 00:39:08,137.0806327 --> 00:39:11,237.0816327 even the cheapest ones I've, I've seen going, you're looking at. 399 00:39:11,822.0816327 --> 00:39:12,502.0816327 Thousands. 400 00:39:12,777.0816327 --> 00:39:13,157.0816327 Yeah. 401 00:39:13,327.0806327 --> 00:39:13,707.0806327 Yeah. 402 00:39:13,707.1806327 --> 00:39:13,946.9806327 Absolutely. 403 00:39:13,947.0806327 --> 00:39:14,737.0806327 Absolutely. 404 00:39:15,292.0816327 --> 00:39:22,977.0816327 So, um, I also want to touch a bit on you, actually your, um, ex husband Paul Heinerth Mm hmm. 405 00:39:23,592.0806327 --> 00:39:26,422.0816327 uh, another legendary cave explorer. 406 00:39:27,42.0816327 --> 00:39:44,332.0816327 So, what was it like working with, uh, your spouse and the challenges of that when you're trying to do certain dives? I mean, I, maybe you want to actually recount the story about when you're, you were on the ship to the Arctic with him. 407 00:39:45,207.0816327 --> 00:39:46,592.0816327 Oh, to Antarctica? Yeah. 408 00:39:47,857.0816327 --> 00:39:48,77.0816327 Yeah. 409 00:39:49,897.0816327 --> 00:39:51,87.0816327 Oh, poor Paul. 410 00:39:51,357.0816327 --> 00:39:53,837.0816327 Um, yeah, Paul gets horribly seasick. 411 00:39:53,867.0816327 --> 00:40:09,32.0816327 And, um, uh, He, he is also, uh, French Canadian, and so English was not his first language, and people forget that because his English seems perfect, but there's some little nuances of the language that he sometimes misses. 412 00:40:09,502.0816327 --> 00:40:21,262.0816327 And I had told him that we had a 12 day crossing to Antarctica from New Zealand, and, uh, He thought 12 day crossing meant six days down and six days back. 413 00:40:21,262.0816327 --> 00:40:27,192.0816327 And, and after he'd, you know, he'd probably lost 15 pounds at this point, he was being so seasick. 414 00:40:27,192.0816327 --> 00:40:31,922.0816327 He, he, you know, grabbed me and said, you lied to me. 415 00:40:32,422.0816327 --> 00:40:36,952.0816327 And I'm like, no, no, 12 day crossings mean 12 days down. 416 00:40:36,962.0816327 --> 00:40:41,802.0816327 Then the project in 12 days home across the most violent seas on the planet. 417 00:40:42,342.0816327 --> 00:40:44,662.0816327 So I don't know if he ever forgave me for that. 418 00:40:45,767.0816327 --> 00:40:51,847.0816327 Um, but, but the more seriously, though, the question you're asking is about diving with your partner. 419 00:40:51,887.0816327 --> 00:40:53,247.0816327 Um, and. 420 00:40:53,732.0816327 --> 00:40:55,432.0816327 And that's difficult. 421 00:40:55,442.0816327 --> 00:40:57,712.0816327 It's extremely difficult. 422 00:40:58,652.0816327 --> 00:41:10,912.0816327 You may make decisions that are different with your partner, whether it's your spouse, or whether it's your child, or whether it's your dad, or someone that's incredibly close to you. 423 00:41:11,572.0816327 --> 00:41:18,572.0816327 You have to really think about how it may change your risk envelope, you know. 424 00:41:19,832.0816327 --> 00:41:26,92.0816327 Like, I remember doing an expedition dive with Paul and he was really frustrated with the technology that we were using. 425 00:41:26,92.0816327 --> 00:41:28,912.0806327 It was really hard to, to pilot. 426 00:41:28,952.0816327 --> 00:41:41,332.0816326 And, um, and he was frustrated and he was cursing and swearing and, and, and then we also kept getting separated because he was just having a struggle with some of this gear. 427 00:41:41,792.0816326 --> 00:41:47,902.0816326 And so I would get ahead of him and then I would kind of circle back and that was just pissing him off through frustration. 428 00:41:47,902.0816326 --> 00:41:54,492.0816326 But both of us were just diving with so much stuff, literally like five, 600 pounds of gear. 429 00:41:54,492.0816326 --> 00:42:15,67.0816326 We were dragging through this cave and um, And I heard him cursing and swearing and I, and I took it very personally, like I thought he was mad at me for getting ahead and, and, and I found myself, you know, 300 feet deep on a 20 hour dive and I'm crying, right? Because I think he's mad at me, my husband. 430 00:42:15,137.0816326 --> 00:42:17,387.0816326 And, you know, was he? Maybe, I don't know. 431 00:42:17,827.0816326 --> 00:42:18,517.0816326 Maybe not. 432 00:42:19,27.0816326 --> 00:42:25,317.0816326 Um, but the end result was like I found myself in this emotional state that was completely ridiculous. 433 00:42:26,352.0816326 --> 00:42:27,502.0816326 the task at hand. 434 00:42:27,532.0816326 --> 00:42:31,912.0816326 Like I know now that you got to leave the emotions behind. 435 00:42:31,912.0816326 --> 00:42:33,782.0816326 You got to leave them on the surface. 436 00:42:33,812.0806326 --> 00:42:35,782.0816326 And maybe you can't do that with. 437 00:42:36,392.0816326 --> 00:42:39,972.0816326 Your spouse or your child or your parent or whatever. 438 00:42:40,472.0816326 --> 00:42:43,832.0816326 And if that's the case, then maybe you should each dive with someone else. 439 00:42:44,92.0816326 --> 00:42:46,882.0811326 And on that project, I just came to that conclusion. 440 00:42:46,882.0811326 --> 00:42:55,942.0816326 I said, you know, I think the world of your, your skills are unbelievable and, and there's nobody that's more angelic in the underwater environment than he is. 441 00:42:55,942.0816326 --> 00:42:57,492.0816326 But, but I couldn't. 442 00:42:57,902.0816326 --> 00:43:02,892.0816326 partner with him for such big dives, and it wasn't the end of our diving. 443 00:43:02,892.0816326 --> 00:43:07,482.0816326 I mean, even after we were divorced, I hired him for a bunch of projects for film things. 444 00:43:07,482.0816326 --> 00:43:10,502.0806326 And, and, um, it wasn't that we couldn't dive together. 445 00:43:10,512.0816326 --> 00:43:14,272.0806326 It was just in the those huge risk situations. 446 00:43:14,612.0806326 --> 00:43:15,452.0806326 It was difficult. 447 00:43:15,472.0816326 --> 00:43:18,82.0816326 In fact, I found it easier after we were divorced. 448 00:43:18,82.0816326 --> 00:43:25,107.0816326 You know, there wasn't, there wasn't the emotional baggage attachment that You know, really made the risk greater. 449 00:43:25,822.0816327 --> 00:43:29,592.0816327 I can see that with the, with the danger involved. 450 00:43:29,862.0816327 --> 00:43:32,72.0806327 I mean, especially having your spouse. 451 00:43:32,122.0806327 --> 00:43:32,902.0806327 It was funny. 452 00:43:32,902.0816327 --> 00:43:39,807.0816326 I interviewed Greg Hilliard the other day and he, I had him talk about diving with his spouse Yeah. 453 00:43:39,867.0816326 --> 00:43:40,257.0816326 Yeah. 454 00:43:40,622.0816327 --> 00:43:41,542.0816327 and same issue. 455 00:43:41,542.0816327 --> 00:43:48,667.0816327 It's, you know, he's, he's like, yeah, you're Your emotional levels on a total different state. 456 00:43:49,312.0816327 --> 00:43:55,117.0816326 When you're diving with your spouse partner or anybody that you're really close to Yeah, absolutely. 457 00:43:55,177.0806326 --> 00:43:55,687.0806326 Absolutely. 458 00:43:55,877.0816326 --> 00:43:58,157.0816326 And maybe it's like you're trying to impress them. 459 00:43:58,167.0816326 --> 00:44:03,107.0816326 Maybe it's your you're trying to, you know, be as good, or maybe, you know, maybe it's something else. 460 00:44:03,107.0816326 --> 00:44:06,817.0816326 Who knows? It's just a baggage that you bring from the surface underwater with you. 461 00:44:06,817.0816326 --> 00:44:13,857.0816326 So so maybe it's maybe it's Best to leave that behind because oftentimes we're, we're better buddies with those. 462 00:44:13,877.0816326 --> 00:44:21,937.0816326 We're not as close to like, I have some really close buddies, but, but we're super authentic and honest and straightforward with each other. 463 00:44:21,937.0816326 --> 00:44:29,417.0816326 And in a way that, that funny enough, just doesn't, doesn't translate as well when someone's too close. 464 00:44:29,862.0816327 --> 00:44:30,112.0816327 no. 465 00:44:30,512.0816327 --> 00:44:39,972.0816327 Yeah, I I totally get that Especially when it comes to you're putting your life in your their hands or vice versa. 466 00:44:40,557.0816326 --> 00:44:42,907.0816326 Well, I mean, that's the other difficult thing. 467 00:44:42,907.0816326 --> 00:45:07,762.0806326 What's going to happen if there's a crisis, if there's an emergency, like, um, Are you, are you going to end up dead too? Like, are you, you know, what happens at that moment that you realize you can't save that other person? And then even just the guilt that you would carry, even if you were not a party to their accident, like not being able to save your partner. 468 00:45:07,902.0806326 --> 00:45:11,852.0816326 Like, do you really ever want to go through that? Like, I don't know. 469 00:45:12,272.0816327 --> 00:45:26,452.0816327 I Can't imagine that Especially even just listening to you about when I've listened your interviews about you recovering how many friends that you've had to recover from cave diving. 470 00:45:26,852.0816326 --> 00:45:29,92.0816326 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 471 00:45:29,122.0816326 --> 00:45:34,102.0816326 I mean, it's bad enough when it's a friend, but if it was your family, your spouse, like, oof. 472 00:45:35,442.0816326 --> 00:45:38,2.0816326 I'd rather just prevent that situation. 473 00:45:38,2.1816326 --> 00:45:41,512.0816327 Yeah, get it. 474 00:45:42,192.0816327 --> 00:45:53,602.0816326 Um, so let's talk a bit about Tobermory because I know that you, since this is a Canadian podcast and I know that you've done a lot of diving up in Tobermory that's where I got certified. 475 00:45:53,612.0816326 --> 00:46:00,532.0816326 Yeah, yeah, Um, it's actually, I live actually just an hour and a half south of Tobermory Oh, right. 476 00:46:00,907.0816327 --> 00:46:02,487.0816327 For me, it's awesome. 477 00:46:02,487.0816327 --> 00:46:07,907.0816327 I can, I finished work at like, when I do finish work, I finished work at like nine 30 in the morning. 478 00:46:08,177.0816327 --> 00:46:12,397.0816327 I can be up until morning to like do an afternoon chart or go diving right after. 479 00:46:12,397.0816327 --> 00:46:13,107.0806327 So it's amazing. 480 00:46:13,217.0816326 --> 00:46:13,887.0816326 Nice. 481 00:46:14,357.0816326 --> 00:46:14,967.0816326 Nice. 482 00:46:14,967.1816326 --> 00:46:15,485.1416326 Mm hmm. 483 00:46:15,657.0816327 --> 00:46:18,317.0816327 I know that you, you got certified up there. 484 00:46:18,367.0816327 --> 00:46:20,117.0816327 You do a lot of diving out there. 485 00:46:20,137.0816327 --> 00:46:23,807.0816327 Even still, I understand that you still do a fair amount of diving. 486 00:46:23,807.0816327 --> 00:46:29,957.0806326 there So what's your favorite shipwreck up there to, uh, dive on? Oh. 487 00:46:31,477.0816326 --> 00:46:33,747.0816326 I, I've They're all great. 488 00:46:33,747.0816326 --> 00:46:36,167.0806326 I mean, I love just jumping in the water with the tugs, even. 489 00:46:36,167.0816326 --> 00:46:37,577.0806326 Just because it's so accessible. 490 00:46:37,577.0806326 --> 00:46:42,257.0806326 Or, or the sweepstakes, right? Like, shore dives with really cool looking wrecks. 491 00:46:42,257.0806326 --> 00:46:47,487.0816326 But, I, I've just always had this, like, warm spot in my heart for the Arabia and the Forest City. 492 00:46:48,477.0816326 --> 00:46:50,527.0816326 Pretty much everybody does, I think. 493 00:46:51,807.0816327 --> 00:47:09,237.0806326 the Arabia is an amazing dive Well, when I learned to dive, it was before zebra and quagga mussels, and you might have experienced this too, where, um, you'd go down the line to the Arabia and you'd hit this big cement block, and, um, at the time, there wasn't a line that led from the cement block. 494 00:47:09,672.0816326 --> 00:47:10,542.0816326 to the wreck. 495 00:47:10,842.0816326 --> 00:47:14,502.0816326 Mind you, it was only about two meters away, if that. 496 00:47:15,152.0816326 --> 00:47:19,392.0816326 But back in those days, you'd hit the block and you couldn't see the wreck. 497 00:47:19,442.0806326 --> 00:47:23,882.0816326 And, you know, a couple of meters of visibility was sort of normal up there. 498 00:47:24,862.0816326 --> 00:47:29,422.0816326 The invasive mussels changed all of that, so it's a whole lot easier to dive now. 499 00:47:29,422.0816326 --> 00:47:34,862.0816326 But it was quite mysterious and really fascinating back then. 500 00:47:34,862.1816326 --> 00:47:36,562.0816326 But I still love it. 501 00:47:37,492.0816327 --> 00:47:44,432.0816327 Well, for those of you that don't know about the Arabia, the Arabia is a schooner that sank in the 1800s. 502 00:47:45,662.0816327 --> 00:47:49,662.0816327 Um, it is, uh, relatively intact. 503 00:47:49,692.0816327 --> 00:47:52,682.0816327 It's an amazing wreck to dive on. 504 00:47:53,152.0816327 --> 00:47:57,192.0816326 Um, I've actually gone night diving on it a couple of times, Cool. 505 00:47:57,432.0816327 --> 00:47:58,492.0816327 uh, back in the day. 506 00:47:58,532.0816327 --> 00:48:05,362.0816326 I'm actually really excited because this year, one of my goals is that actually I'm going to do the Arabia again this year Excellent. 507 00:48:05,572.0811327 --> 00:48:06,582.0816327 done it in so long. 508 00:48:06,722.0816327 --> 00:48:07,192.0816327 And it's. 509 00:48:07,677.0816327 --> 00:48:10,407.0816327 You cannot expresss for anyone who hasn't dove it. 510 00:48:10,437.0816327 --> 00:48:19,602.0816326 I mean, you can't explain what it's like when you come up on the wreck And especially when you see the bowsprit the chains hanging down on Right. 511 00:48:19,652.0816326 --> 00:48:19,952.0816326 Right. 512 00:48:19,972.0806326 --> 00:48:21,102.0806326 That's the prettiest part. 513 00:48:21,102.1806326 --> 00:48:22,87.0811326 Yeah. 514 00:48:22,87.0811326 --> 00:48:23,71.9816326 Yeah. 515 00:48:23,72.0816326 --> 00:48:23,92.0816326 Yeah. 516 00:48:23,102.0816326 --> 00:48:34,782.0816326 It has changed a lot in, you know, 25, 30, well, more than that, years, but it is kind of, you know, starting to fall apart a little bit more, but it's still so cool. 517 00:48:35,72.0816326 --> 00:48:42,952.0816326 And now, I mean, you can see it's stem to stern, you're descending on it and pretty quickly from the surface you're like, Ooh, wow, that's beautiful. 518 00:48:42,952.1816326 --> 00:48:50,222.0816326 Heh what I'm really looking forward to this year is cause I've never seen it that clear Right, that way, yeah. 519 00:48:50,327.0816327 --> 00:48:54,467.0816327 And, um, even at the tugs this year, I was amazed that the visibility up there and. 520 00:48:55,12.0816327 --> 00:48:56,672.0816327 Right at the water temperature. 521 00:48:57,152.0816326 --> 00:49:11,102.0806326 I know, a few years ago, like when I first moved back to Canada, like six, seven years ago, um, I was up in Tobermory and I saw people like just snorkeling at the tugs tugs in bathing suits. 522 00:49:11,452.0806326 --> 00:49:14,882.0816326 First of all, they could see all of them from the surface and just snorkeling around. 523 00:49:15,92.0816326 --> 00:49:21,412.0816326 Second of all, they were in bathing suits in the water at Tobermory, you know, something that. 524 00:49:22,87.0816326 --> 00:49:26,427.0816326 It, you know, it's a lot warmer on the surface now, and they were in the water a long time. 525 00:49:26,952.0816327 --> 00:49:31,922.0806327 I, I remember like when I first started diving at Tobermory back in the day when you did. 526 00:49:32,102.0816327 --> 00:49:35,842.0816327 Like how cold it was regardless of how deep you were. 527 00:49:36,532.0816327 --> 00:49:46,522.0816327 And, I mean, on my computer, I have multiple dives where the water temperature above the thermocline was 73 degrees this year. 528 00:49:47,207.0816326 --> 00:49:51,937.0816326 That's crazy, because it was always, like, on the bottom, it was always 4. 529 00:49:51,967.0816326 --> 00:49:55,787.0816326 You know, it was just always, right? Like, 4C. 530 00:49:56,77.0816326 --> 00:49:59,507.0816326 Um, yeah, and it wasn't a whole lot warmer coming up. 531 00:49:59,627.0816326 --> 00:50:01,837.0816326 Um, yeah, it's crazy. 532 00:50:02,72.0816327 --> 00:50:13,172.0816327 Every single, uh, every single, uh, dive instructor I made friends with at uh, divers den this year, um, could not believe how warm the water was up there. 533 00:50:13,492.0816326 --> 00:50:14,912.0816326 Yeah, it's a bit worrying. 534 00:50:15,762.0816327 --> 00:50:28,582.0816327 yeah, actually, that, that was my next question for you, actually is what do you think about all the effects of global warming on the marine environment because the temperatures are staggering. 535 00:50:28,942.0816326 --> 00:50:31,332.0816326 Yeah, it's, it's shocking. 536 00:50:31,752.0816326 --> 00:50:55,547.0816326 I mean, people of our age and, and number of years diving shouldn't have seen so many changes in the environment, not just locally, but all around the world, whether it's, you know, coral reefs and bleaching and stony coral disease, or, or whether it's, you know, clarity in the, in the Great Lakes and collapse of the, you know, native species population in the Great Lakes, or whether it's the loss of sea ice in the north. 537 00:50:55,557.0816326 --> 00:50:59,727.0816326 It's, it's extraordinary the things that are changing. 538 00:50:59,767.0816326 --> 00:51:22,57.0816326 But, you know, I think that us as sort of people of the water planet and the water warriors, that we have an opportunity to, to share these insights, these stories that maybe will awaken others who don't see the changes that we do to, to the existential threats that, that we as a species are facing as a result of these changes in the climate. 539 00:51:23,12.0816327 --> 00:51:39,76.9816327 So, what do you, um, out of all the places that you've dove repeatedly, where have you, where have you gone back recently and then gone, oh, my God, I can't believe the damage due to global warming. 540 00:51:39,657.0816327 --> 00:51:46,607.0816327 Global warming and stuff like that or to hurricanes or which I mean, it's also part of this global warming stuff. 541 00:51:46,607.0816327 --> 00:51:50,872.0816326 The amount of hurricanes that we get now, It's at both extremes of the planet. 542 00:51:50,872.0816326 --> 00:52:08,252.0816326 Like we see less of those changes in, in the, you know, middle latitudes of Canada, for instance, like we can still go out West and see all the incredible charismatic, charismatic, you know, megafauna and everything, even though some of the environment has changed there, same thing on the East coast. 543 00:52:08,272.0816326 --> 00:52:11,862.0816326 But, you know, if you go to the North and you see the loss of sea ice. 544 00:52:12,192.0816326 --> 00:52:21,72.0816326 It's, it's palpable year on year, you know, it's setting up later each year, it's breaking up earlier each year and it's changing the entire, you know, marine regimen there. 545 00:52:21,462.0816326 --> 00:52:31,482.0806326 And then the same thing at the warm ends of the planet in the tropics where, you know, I really, really cut my teeth and diving was when I lived in the Cayman islands for a few years. 546 00:52:31,542.0806326 --> 00:52:34,312.0806326 And it was this amazing. 547 00:52:35,172.0816326 --> 00:52:40,222.0816326 Beautiful, resplendent, healthy coral environment on the east end of Grand Cayman. 548 00:52:40,232.0816326 --> 00:52:49,892.0806326 But, uh, but now it is really stressed and it's, it's shocking to me to see the changes in the tropical environment. 549 00:52:50,797.0816327 --> 00:52:57,767.0816327 so do you think that, um, part of that is also from the amount of diving activity that. 550 00:52:58,292.0816327 --> 00:53:10,772.0816326 Some of these locations get No, I mean, yes, in the, in the sense that like sunscreen is a horrible, horrible, um, thing that harms the marine environment. 551 00:53:11,152.0806326 --> 00:53:13,272.0816326 Yeah, but diver traffic. 552 00:53:13,352.1816326 --> 00:53:20,472.0816326 Um, you know, that is, that is not what's driving the, you know, the global existential threats right, right now. 553 00:53:21,402.0816326 --> 00:53:31,167.0816326 Yes, there are stressed sites from, you know, physical impacts of divers and then, and then also from The sunscreen they're wearing on their bodies or whatever else. 554 00:53:31,617.0816326 --> 00:53:34,57.0816326 Um, but that's, that's site specific. 555 00:53:34,57.0816326 --> 00:53:37,617.0816326 That's like sort of looking at weather versus climate. 556 00:53:37,637.0816326 --> 00:53:40,317.0806326 It's like it's windy today, it's snowy today, it's rainy today. 557 00:53:40,327.0816326 --> 00:53:42,287.0816326 You know, one day's good, one day's bad, you know. 558 00:53:42,727.0816326 --> 00:53:45,877.0816326 But it's really climate, you know, the changes over. 559 00:53:46,407.0816326 --> 00:54:02,897.0816326 You know, time that are important and in the diving, it's the changes, the global changes in the marine environment that are frightening in places where divers have never been, you know, whether it's microplastic pollutions, warming oceans, ocean acidification, that's all global stuff. 560 00:54:03,207.0816326 --> 00:54:08,907.0816326 You could live in the prairie provinces and be affecting the ocean with your behaviors on land, you know. 561 00:54:09,557.0816326 --> 00:54:11,157.0816326 Yeah, you don't have to be a diver. 562 00:54:11,157.1816326 --> 00:54:14,62.0816327 Yeah. 563 00:54:14,152.0816327 --> 00:54:15,472.0816327 that aspect of that. 564 00:54:15,602.0816327 --> 00:54:20,772.0816327 Even though you're not a diver, you're affecting the environment when it comes to this stuff. 565 00:54:21,392.0816327 --> 00:54:27,62.0816327 Um, and it blows my mind how you still see all these people on. 566 00:54:27,572.0816327 --> 00:54:28,912.0816327 The news and stuff like that. 567 00:54:28,932.0816327 --> 00:54:34,392.0816327 We're saying, Oh, that this whole climate change thing is a farce, etc. 568 00:54:35,277.0816327 --> 00:55:05,282.0816326 How do you even dispute that when there's the record number of hurricanes and more severe storms and flooding? I mean, when we were making the film, Diving into the Darkness in the last couple of years, everywhere we went around the world to do our filming, we came up against these like hundred year, thousand year weather events and, uh, you know, atmospheric river in, in, uh, New Zealand, for instance, and it's like. 569 00:55:06,212.0816326 --> 00:55:06,612.0816326 Wow. 570 00:55:06,662.0816326 --> 00:55:11,442.0816326 Tropical cyclone down there that, you know, filled the airport with, with waist deep water. 571 00:55:11,882.0816326 --> 00:55:13,532.0816326 Um, yeah. 572 00:55:14,212.0816326 --> 00:55:20,492.0816326 So all I would say is like, Hey, you know, just observe the changes in your own local environment. 573 00:55:20,512.0816326 --> 00:55:22,482.0816326 They're happening everywhere now. 574 00:55:22,592.0816326 --> 00:55:25,152.0816326 Um, there's absolutely no doubt. 575 00:55:27,292.0806327 --> 00:55:27,792.0806327 Yeah. 576 00:55:28,917.0816326 --> 00:55:33,787.0816326 So I want to move on a bit about your, uh, diving into the darkness movie. 577 00:55:34,62.0816326 --> 00:55:34,552.0816326 Yeah. 578 00:55:34,652.0816326 --> 00:55:35,92.0816326 Yeah. 579 00:55:35,427.0816326 --> 00:55:44,257.0816326 Tell me about it because I've only seen a couple of clips of it, unfortunately, because I missed the online screening of it last summer when it was on. 580 00:55:44,677.0816326 --> 00:55:45,187.0816326 Yeah. 581 00:55:45,577.0816327 --> 00:55:52,207.0816326 It was soon we'll have a streaming deal and we'll, we'll get it streaming globally, but yeah. 582 00:55:52,647.0816326 --> 00:55:53,67.0816326 Yeah. 583 00:55:53,437.0816326 --> 00:56:02,217.0816326 It, it, um, well, the, the project started, I guess, when I met the director about eight, seven, eight years ago now, um, when I was in Australia speaking. 584 00:56:02,257.0816326 --> 00:56:08,727.0806326 And, uh, during the COVID times, he read my book and said, woof, I want to make a movie about your life. 585 00:56:08,737.0826326 --> 00:56:10,367.0816326 And I'm like, oh, okay. 586 00:56:10,927.0806326 --> 00:56:11,997.0806326 It's a bit scary. 587 00:56:12,667.0816326 --> 00:56:24,482.0816326 Um, But we developed this incredible friendship, Nase Baghai and I, and I, I gave him access to all my archives and he is an extraordinarily talented filmmaker. 588 00:56:24,542.0816326 --> 00:56:25,502.0816326 And, um. 589 00:56:26,7.0816326 --> 00:56:36,567.0806326 When it came time to film, we, we had my archival materials, but we still needed to travel around the world and do some recreations and get some new footage and, and then put it all together. 590 00:56:36,577.0816326 --> 00:56:51,567.0816326 So, uh, this past year, we've been traveling around the world doing festivals and, and little bespoke screenings just to get the marketing started and, uh, we've been winning a ton of awards, which is kind of kind of exciting. 591 00:56:51,737.0816326 --> 00:56:52,427.0816326 I see that. 592 00:56:52,427.0816326 --> 00:56:55,67.0816326 I see you just picked up another award in Alaska. 593 00:56:55,237.0816326 --> 00:56:56,377.0806326 Yeah, we did. 594 00:56:57,152.0816326 --> 00:57:00,492.0816326 so I mean, your travel schedule is insane. 595 00:57:00,982.0816326 --> 00:57:02,272.0816326 It's been a bit much. 596 00:57:03,732.0816326 --> 00:57:19,612.0816326 it? Are you normally this busy every year? Is it extra busy? Because now you've got all this media stuff to do with the, uh, It's been a little bit extra this year, um, but I'm happy to kind of just now take a chill pill and slow down for a bit. 597 00:57:20,92.0816326 --> 00:57:26,512.0816326 Because I've got so much, you know, filming and expedition work going on as well in between all of these, you know, media type trips. 598 00:57:26,512.0816326 --> 00:57:31,182.0806326 And, uh, I'll let go of some of that and just focus on the expeditions this year. 599 00:57:32,22.0816326 --> 00:57:39,352.0816326 well, I'm very glad that you've taken time to join me here because I know your schedule is super busy. 600 00:57:39,472.0806326 --> 00:57:41,922.0816326 Yeah, my Uh, and stuff like that. 601 00:57:42,82.0816326 --> 00:57:55,292.0816326 I, so I understand, uh, a little, um, A common acquaintance that we have actually mentioned that you are probably coming to Tobermory actually diving this summer. 602 00:57:55,952.0806326 --> 00:58:07,637.0816326 Yeah! Yeah! Sylvia, who's, who's, uh, works for Blue Heron Company and, uh, will be running Diver's Den and said, Hey, you know, come on back up and I'm like, I'll be there. 603 00:58:08,567.0816326 --> 00:58:11,237.0816326 Maybe we can figure out how to do a screening up in Tobermory too. 604 00:58:11,452.0806326 --> 00:58:11,762.0806326 that. 605 00:58:11,792.0816326 --> 00:58:12,752.0806326 That would be awesome. 606 00:58:13,42.0816326 --> 00:58:15,432.0806326 I'm sure you would definitely sell out at that. 607 00:58:15,867.0806326 --> 00:58:17,577.0806326 Yeah, I think that'd be a fun thing to do. 608 00:58:17,627.0806326 --> 00:58:19,267.0816326 You know, go back to the scene of the crime. 609 00:58:19,762.0816326 --> 00:58:31,372.0806326 Well, well, make sure that when you're, when you're up here, hopefully you can, um, let me know so that I can, I can, uh, make the drive up and get my book signed from you. 610 00:58:31,697.0816326 --> 00:58:32,387.0816326 Oh, you bet. 611 00:58:32,762.0816326 --> 00:58:42,642.0816326 And, uh, and, and if you have any, uh, now Hubert didn't want me to do any sidemount stuff with any other instructor type thing. 612 00:58:42,642.0816326 --> 00:58:44,612.0816326 So I wouldn't pick up any bad habits. 613 00:58:45,2.0816326 --> 00:58:49,262.0816326 However, I think in this case, he's, he's trumped. 614 00:58:49,672.0816326 --> 00:58:50,252.0816326 So. 615 00:58:50,647.0816326 --> 00:58:53,97.0816326 I'll have my sidemount certification by then. 616 00:58:53,97.0816326 --> 00:58:58,367.0816326 So if you have time to go for a dive, I would love to get some critiquing. 617 00:58:58,862.0816326 --> 00:58:59,322.0816326 Cool. 618 00:58:59,332.0816326 --> 00:59:00,112.0816326 Let's do it. 619 00:59:00,327.0816326 --> 00:59:00,757.0816326 All right. 620 00:59:00,807.0816326 --> 00:59:01,507.0816326 That'd be awesome. 621 00:59:02,322.0816326 --> 00:59:02,962.0816326 Awesome. 622 00:59:04,67.0816326 --> 00:59:08,617.0811326 So, well, I want to thank you very much for joining us today. 623 00:59:08,617.0811326 --> 00:59:12,307.0816326 I know that your time makes it extremely valuable and busy. 624 00:59:12,867.0816326 --> 00:59:14,667.0816326 Um, and I have. 625 00:59:15,72.0816326 --> 00:59:16,302.0816326 Thoroughly enjoyed this. 626 00:59:16,312.0816326 --> 00:59:18,892.0816326 It has been a total honor to have you on the show. 627 00:59:19,422.0816326 --> 00:59:35,562.0816326 Um, and I'm looking forward to meeting you this summer when you're coming up to Tobermory and, uh, by the way, I'm going to have all of Jill's links down below the video here so that you can check our podcasts or, uh, newsletters, all that type of stuff. 628 00:59:35,632.0816326 --> 00:59:41,392.0816326 So thank you very much for joining the, uh, dead foot podcast and we'll catch you next time. 629 00:59:41,712.0806326 --> 00:59:41,992.0806326 Yeah. 630 00:59:41,992.0816326 --> 00:59:42,742.0816326 It's been a pleasure. 631 00:59:42,792.0816326 --> 00:59:43,272.0816326 Thanks.

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