In this riveting episode of the Force on Force podcast, host Shawn Dalrymple and electronics and fishing expert, Brent Hill, discuss the formidable advantages and intriguing controversies surrounding forward-facing sonar technology in fishing. With their military backgrounds acting as a solid foundation, they paint a vivid picture of the value this technology can offer and why it remains a misunderstood concept in the angling community.
From exploring the importance of cone size in sonar signals, discussing Lowrance's top-notch active target technology, to explaining how to optimize your sonar system's performance – this episode delves into every conceivable angle. Particularly insightful is their discussion on how varying fishing conditions necessitate bespoke sonar setups and the role of 'scout mode' in locating elusive aquatic life and vital structures.
Moreover, the episode compares the benefits of different mounting methods for sonar systems, showcasing their hands-on fishing experiences to provide valuable advice. The conversation weaves through topics like fatigue, spot-locking, Bluetooth connectivity and system stability, culminating in an engaging exploration of the potential difficulties and solutions associated with turret mounted forward facing sonar systems.
Adopting an illuminating and forward-thinking perspective, the narrative also explores mounting active targets on the back of the boat and talks about the possibility of multitasking with the technology. Calling on their military experiences, they underscore the necessity for anglers to adapt to evolving technology, viewing it as an essential tool to augment their fishing techniques.
Closing with a teaser about upcoming episodes featuring industry leaders and on-location shoots, this podcast is a treasure trove of practical advice and unique insights for both seasoned and novice anglers keen to harness the power and potential of forward-facing sonar technology.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Force on Force features the largest and strongest outdoor military organization in the country.
These are the men and women who make it possible to enjoy the freedom to hunt and fish.
It is with great pride that we bring you Force on Force podcast,
coming to you from the Force on Force talk.
Hey, welcome to the Force on Force podcast. This is Sean Dourple,
(00:22):
your host. We're here in the Force on Force talk.
We start everything in the Tactical Operations Center. All
our shows start start there and all our military operations
start there this is really unique for for me because this is
going to be my first force on force talk podcast
on the road got a three-week stretch i'm here on the road so very very excited
(00:42):
to try and bring this new part of what we're doing with uh all our branches
and bass buck hog duck and redfish to you and doing it from the road so So just
like in many military operations,
we have a mobile talk sometimes, and that's what we're doing right now.
But this one's going to be kind of cool because we want to talk today about
a hot topic, which is forward-facing sonar. To do that, I'm going to bring in
(01:06):
one of the bass guys, Brent Hill. Welcome, Brent Hill.
And how are you doing? Man, I'm doing good, Sean. How are you?
Good. So a little bit of background. Brent Hill is man
Brent's like myself man we're we're
we're electronics junkies in
particular our ants guys man we uh I live and breathe and uh that's kind of
(01:29):
where I cut my teeth in the fishing side was with Navico and Lowrance and so
forward-facing sonar is a big topic for us and we're going to discuss that because
there's a lot of controversy about what's going on and forward-facing sonar,
and we want to discuss that.
But more importantly, Britt, you know, Britt's a lieutenant colonel.
(01:50):
Field artillery guy and got a lot of background, what, 26 years of active duty service?
Coming up, yeah. Yeah, so battalion commander right now.
So really cool to have Brent as part of this. He's done those really cool things
in his career and very knowledgeable.
And I think that's what's really cool about what we do.
(02:11):
We have the technical background from what we did in the military,
and that really translates really well to understanding this stuff.
On the fishing and hunting side. And that's why I think Brent and I have both
been very successful with Lowrance and Navico on the teaching from a sonar perspective
and in that perspective.
(02:34):
Is that kind of how you see it, Brent? Yeah. You know, like you said,
we've, I mean, combined with both of us, we've probably been with Lowrance for 20 plus years.
And any time that new new sonar comes
out we are are usually on the on the
cutting edge of doing product development testing for
low rents but more importantly we like
(02:56):
to teach it like you said to other people too and i kind
of still do that to this day so yeah teaching is a big part of
it but you got to understand it and i think we're
gonna get into that yeah and i think part of
our understanding is you and i have been man with
what we've done in the military and we we
we're constantly having having new technology thrown
(03:17):
at us throughout our careers but you know yeah i did my first part of my career
as an infantry guy and i did i had some very cool stuff thrown to me down range
in your field artillery guy especially then when i got over into the signal
world man i was all the time on the cutting edge and so you got to be comfortable
with change we always talk about that,
change is a big deal and i think we're seeing that in the fishing world right
(03:39):
now and there's a lot of controversy around that change wouldn't you agree I agree.
Yeah, I would. I mean, it was just like, I think it was a couple of years ago
and you and I were talking about GPS and self-locating systems and how we were
talking about how that translated from, you know, military equipment and self-locating systems,
specifically howitzers and mortars, to what's on our boats and using the 0.1
(04:00):
and everything and how that really helps you.
But now we're talking about something that's totally more
technologically advanced with forward facing sonar
and yeah it's a topic it's the elephant in the
room if you would say yeah i would tell you
that's the big thing both tours where it's the bass or
the mlf you get on any kind of
(04:22):
fishing forum you see anything on facebook you see
everybody's talking about it right now forward facing sonar whether
it's good for fishing whether it's
bad no you know you say oh i don't want to watch a tournament with
forward-facing sonar and then you got everybody.
On the other side that says you know adapt or
(04:42):
or you're die i mean it's how do
you kind of feel about that from your perspective i i
like forward-facing sonar i like side scan
down imaging 2d i i.
Like the tech stuff like you said i'm a techie i i
don't get the controversy because it seems like like
you got two camps you got a camp on the left that really.
(05:05):
Is all for it you got a camp on the right that absolutely.
Hates it but you have a little bit of few people they.
Really don't care and they're kind of in the middle but there's a
lot of the top names in the sport on both of the
of the big tours that have been pretty vocal
about it i watched a podcast early this
morning before getting after work and they were
talking about the last two bass events at fork and that toledo been
(05:28):
you know the majority of that discussion wasn't about
the fishing it was about forward facing sonar so you
know the tournament trails are are all over at
the pro level so it's it's a
big topic of discussion d you know it's
funny you brought you brought up side scan and down imaging it's
almost like we had the same discussion around 2008 2009
(05:51):
when you know side imaging became came
kind of uh the new the new thing and
then down imaging around 2009 when the ranch was
the first kind of come out with it in 2009 and 10 you
know everybody saw you know it's kind of it's running tournament
fishing it's running fishing and we had the same discussion back
then and it's almost the same same deal so
(06:13):
kind of you know it's not
something that we've it's new to the industry i
think we've had the same discussion around electronics on on boats for as we
continue to develop it you're going to continue to have these discussions so
people are just having to adapt to it so I don't think that it's an issue being
(06:35):
new to that discussion I think it's.
I don't really know how to frame it other than, you know, people are just,
they don't like change. They're comfortable in the way they do things.
I think a lot, I see a lot of people, not just, and I'm talking every fisherman
now, not just the tournament thing, the people say they don't want to watch it.
(06:57):
Is it because they don't want to have to learn how to use it?
Because I get this question a lot. I'm sure you do too.
When we teach classes, give me a, give me a cheat sheet, give me a simple way
to figure out how to use my, use my electronics. And now we're introducing forward-facing
sonar. And so that's a whole new thing that we got to add to the equation.
They want to cheat sheet on that. And there's really no cheat sheet other than
(07:17):
just getting out there in time on the water.
Is that how you see that part of it? Oh, 100% agree.
When I do teaching, you know, on the water teaching lessons, you know, I'll show,
you know, the client, hey, this is, these are my settings of,
you know, I'll go up or down on these basic settings and, you know,
teach people, you know, where I try to keep the screen and, you know,
(07:38):
lure brightness and fish brightness, all that business.
But also try to teach them the why behind it.
You know, we talk about cone width and feet by,
you know, how far it's out as far as distance in front of the boat and try to
give them a little bit of background so they can visualize in their head how
this technology is working so they can become a better angler.
(07:58):
Because before, and you brought up side scan, down scan, or down imaging,
you know, We were talking about just idling around looking for drop-offs on points and humps.
Even when mapping came out, that was a thing where people were like,
oh, it's going to cause all the – we're going to catch all the fish in the lake. That's not true.
(08:20):
We used to fish, what, 15%, 20% of the lake, all those spots.
And now what we're seeing with forward-faced sonar is there's fish using a lot
of that lake that we didn't even think they lived or stayed or swam in, right?
So I don't know. I like it. I think it's a useful tool.
But again, it's a tool. You got to know how to use it. And I think the first
(08:44):
thing, in my opinion, is you got to understand what it is.
Instead of just throwing it on your boat, put it on 85% gain,
you know, 85 feet out at 25 feet and start, you just automatically catch fish.
You got to have time on the water.
I think that's key. I mean, I tell people a lot when they ask me that question,
hey, give me a cheat sheet. The first thing I tell them is this –.
(09:04):
Take all your rods and reels out of your boat, leave them at the house,
and go spend a day on the water with your units. You want to learn how to use forward-facing sonar?
You want to use – you do that, right? Because here's the deal.
It's nothing but time on the water. You spend one good day out there figuring
that out, learning what it looks like, learning what things are.
(09:25):
It's going to help you throughout the year.
I think that's what they don't. That's why I think there's a big issue with
it because you've got to figure it out.
I sometimes feel guilty because I think
you and I and just all military guys in
general we kind of have a leg up on it to me when I look at when I look at forward-facing
sonar to me it's nothing more than ISR from downrange you know getting a feed
(09:49):
from a predator or drone right and so for me it's an easy visualization to be
able to see what I'm seeing on the screen and so but I even but I I always say this,
I always go back to learning what, what it is.
I can take the, I can have the same active target forward facing sonar,
but be on two different boats.
And it's still going to take me a little bit of time because each boat set up
(10:12):
a little bit different. The way that angle of that transducer is going to need
to be adjusted a little bit different.
And so there's no substitute with just spending time with your electronics.
And I think that's what everybody misses.
And that's what they don't want to do is spend that time in the water.
They don't want – they're so afraid that if they spend a little bit of time
working on their electronics, it's going to take away from their fishing.
(10:33):
And I think that's, to me, one of the biggest reasons there's such a fight with,
oh, forward-facing soldiers are going to ruin fishing because they don't want
to take the time to learn it.
And really, if they'll just take a day to go out there and do it,
their fishing for the rest of the year will be a whole lot better for them.
And that's what I kind of tell them. you know well i mean let's let's relate
(10:54):
this to military training right the more time you got on the range.
Putting in the work, honing your craft, the better you're going to be behind the trigger.
The more time this correlates directly to on the water, the more time you are
working that active target screen, making those simple minor adjustments,
(11:14):
the better you're going to be at targeting these fish.
I mean, that's a simple correlation for us, you know, practice. It makes perfect.
It does, and I think that's where we kind of get it.
And that's what i you know i want to kind of communicate
out and that kind of transition to what we wanted to kind of
talk about is is what are some of our kind
(11:35):
of our tips and techniques because you and i both believe in it we know
it's not going to go anywhere we love it i mean we
we know it's a real game changer probably the most overused term
in the industry but it really does kind of change the way you fish
i mean i always tell people i went to and being
on that duty for 22 years you i've got to fish a
lot of different places right but one place i've never
(11:55):
got to go is up north and fish for smallmouth grew up fishing
for smallmouth on tennessee river loved it but never
got to go up north and fish for smallmouth so last summer
got to take a trip spend a whole week up there fishing for
smallmouth and really loved it
and it really was about active target right really came
down to use an active target to
(12:16):
catch smallmouth up there and it was just amazing to to use it
to do that and to target those bigger smallmouth on
the outer other edges of those schools so that's
what we kind of want to talk about is is and we're going
to talk about some of the things that and whether it's
cone width or just where it's down
you know forward down or scout mode what what we use for each one and how how.
(12:41):
We kind of do it so what what what do you think it's kind of when we talk about
cone size so that the listeners kind of I understand that kind of lay it out
to him. What, what makes a difference in cone size sprint?
Well, low rents.
Is the leader right now in the cone size so low rant's active target is the 18 degree cone angle,
(13:03):
all right so when you look at the competitors and i'm
not going to name them but you look at the other forward facing sonars they're
a 20 degree cone angle so what does that mean when you
look at a surface danger zone and you're looking at a rifle range and you know
that you are safe on these left and right limits i i correlate it directly to
an sdz if you will when i'm looking at distance on the active target at 30 feet
(13:26):
at an 18 degree cone angle it's 9.5 feet of width,
okay about the width of your boat at 30 feet if
you look at the competitors they're almost 11 feet that's three more feet or
two more feet if you will wider so low rance is going to give you a a tighter
(13:46):
angle or sight picture through your forward face of sonar at 30 feet and all the way out.
So when you get out to 90 feet, which I'll give away a little secret,
I keep mine on 90 feet distance when I'm fishing for bass.
At 90 feet, I'm at 28 feet cone width. The competitors are out there at almost 34.
(14:09):
That's four feet, right? So when you're throwing at 70, 80, 90 feet.
To a bass and i'm sure we'll get into it later and i'll give the listeners some
tips on on how i've i'm targeting these bigger than average bass and catching
them you got a better chance at hitting the spot it may be a tighter cone angle
it may be harder for people to,
(14:31):
really kind of get used to at the beginning but once you figure out that cone angle.
You can get on target almost every single time. And that's what I like about
it. When you talk about active target, it is really a target.
You're throwing at that target. That cone angle is important.
But, Sean, I want to bring something up before we start talking about really cone angle.
Let's talk about the beginning of how you can get the best screen.
(14:54):
The best way to get this product to work for you is power.
Right. And your wiring harness and setting it up properly with the best battery on the market.
But 90% of the time that I'm talking to clients or other people I'm trying to
teach this to, they miss these critical components in the powering their systems.
(15:15):
So I think we need to address the power issue first.
Yeah, no, there's no doubt about that. I talk about that a lot too,
and it comes down. I always say, and I'll use very generic terms of this.
So I always say, whether you're talking whatever transducer you're talking, right?
And I just use 1,000 kilohertz. If you don't have the right power,
(15:36):
right, for us, we use Dakota lithium batteries, right, to get the power short.
And then I'm running a C-Clear power harness to give me a dedicated wiring harness
to run that power all the way to all my units on its own circuit.
What I tell people is if you don't have that setup, if your transducer is ping.
(15:56):
And I use 1,000 kilohertz because it's a very generic number and it's easy for
people to understand that.
If it's if you're not having that your transducer
is not going to ping in a thousand kilohertz what affects the clarity
of that image on your screen right so it's
going to ping at maybe 600 kilohertz or maybe
400 kilohertz maybe it pings back up to
(16:18):
800 kilohertz so that's why you get
a lot of people that you and i know
that you've heard them say that well my screen doesn't look like anything
I saw in a demo model or it doesn't look like anything I
see and that's because their power is not
they don't have the right battery setup and they don't have it on on
its own separate c-clear harness to to
(16:39):
provide power like steady
power source to get the maximum of that
transducer pinging at what it's designed to
ping at right if it's whatever it is whether it's a
thousand 1000 kilohertz 800 whatever it was
designed to ping at it's not going to do that because it's
not getting enough amps going to it and
(17:00):
that's where it becomes an issue it's going to affect even if
you got the right cone size you're still not going to get the maximum you know
usage out of that that transducer when it when it does ping because you're not
getting the right power for it and that's where it comes in so critical i know
you and i have installed a lot of those wiring harnesses and I've always amazed at it.
(17:22):
People come back and they'll tell us beforehand, oh, I don't really have a power
issue or it can't really make that big a difference.
And then you install it and then they come back and they're like,
wow, I can't believe that it solved all my power issues.
And my graphs are so much cleaner from a perspective of what we're asking them to do now.
(17:46):
You've got to have that power to do it. It's like, you know,
I need more power, you know.
Yeah from star trek yeah absolutely you
you can have the right battery but if you don't have the right the
right source to take it from the battery to the to the
units themselves it does no does no good it's the
combination between the battery and the wiring harness that makes all the difference
(18:08):
in the world yeah and you know if a lot of guys are just hooking straight up
to the to the boats harness that's already in there and it just it's not dedicated
it's ran through a couple different different distribution blocks and it's cut
off. It's not getting full power.
So, that's the first thing I start with. So, if you want to get the most out
of your forward-facing sonar system, power, in my opinion, and I think your
(18:30):
opinion, is the number one thing you got to start with. Start with your power source.
But yeah, going back to the cone angle, 18-degree cone angle.
I mean, if I'm flipping something at 25 feet, I've got,
you know, seven and a half feet right there for me
to hit that target and you know keeping that target
that's the brightest it can be the lure
(18:51):
and the fish i'm usually right there
within a foot and if you got decent clarity that fish
is going to see that bait and if it's ready to bite it's going to come after
it and you're going to see it but i think it's critical to have the right power
so you could see that fish react to your bait yeah and you learn a lot from
it too because there's days where you can see the fish and you you can see your
bait and then you can see that they don't want to have anything to do with it either too. Exactly.
(19:15):
So that's kind of key. And I think with that,
for for everybody to just everybody else just
to narrow that cone angle the more detail
the picture you you would think oh i want a wider so
i could see more no it's that exactly the opposite the more narrow
is the narrow that you take the
same frequency and you you put it in a narrow cone and
(19:36):
you're taking all that power and put it in in a smaller space
so it's giving you more detail to the picture and that's what
we're after with and that's why lorenz has has that
ability to give you that forward look um look
on it and uh so that's that's
kind of the key to it and it just just
(19:57):
a piece of it to to do it you gotta in case
you guys don't hear that's that's archer and his rare where someone came up
and he he's people at shows don't really get to hear him ever they always ask
me he doesn't ever bark but he he does occasionally when we're at home and so
So when we're on the road and at the warehouse, he does, he does bark a little bit.
(20:19):
Yeah. So he's, he's, like I said, I think I talked about it when we were at
a show here this last week in Oklahoma city.
He's, he's a field dog. He's not a garrison dog. That's right.
He's not good in garrison.
He's not good in garrison. He is. And that is such a true statement,
but yeah, no, but yeah, that cone angle is key.
I think from that perspective and when you're talking forward facing and,
(20:41):
and, and you do, you know you do a lot you
make your own glide baits and i think you've really had
a lot of experience with those glide baits you know it's very important using
forward facing sonar with those glide baits and and so you've got a lot of stuff
going on to kind of learn from that what what other things what what conditions
you know i just get asked when do i i know when i'm going to use forward facing sonar i got kind of.
(21:05):
Times because i like i'm waiting on my new boat to come in
right now so i typically put two active targets up
there and which allows me to run one
in ford and the other in
scout mode so i have my opinions on
why i like scout mode what's your kind of thoughts
on scout mode what does it kind of do for you yeah so
(21:26):
i'm only running one active target to transducer right
now but i do switch it to scout i got the scout mount
and then i got the ford mount so i'll switch it but it's
based on conditions and it's based on what i'm doing and
and most of that is really based on the depth the time of
the year so coming up here quick in oklahoma and
in texas where i'm fishing the most around this area and
(21:48):
i'll be in toledo bend here in a couple weeks doing it i'm
probably going to be in scout mode as i'm out there looking for
those beds or looking for some fish movement that are
probably a little bit off the bank where you can't see them so
that's what i'm and i can also you know look at those stumps or
brush piles in scout mode and throw mine you know i
like to throw a spinner bait i'm oklahoma guy so i'm gonna throw a spinner bait
(22:09):
up there on those brush piles you you just can't see the best get the best view
out of on four faces sonar so i like throwing that thing in scout mode when
i'm about 12 foot or less so that's kind of my trigger to go to scout mode mode
and specifically like pre-spawn,
spawn and post-spawn when those fish are really up there in the shallower,
(22:32):
less than 15 foot range.
That's kind of my trigger for that. But right now I'm still kind of in the forward,
you know, facing forward mode.
And I only go to down when I'm, you know, I'm really crappie fishing or,
or if I do go up north to Mille Lacs
or some other small all-mouse factory where i can get over
them deep and drop shot right on but that's why i turned
(22:55):
mine to scout mode sean yeah here's where
i found scout mode to be really handy in and around some grass
like particularly like gunner's full and that's
really kind of when you get up a little bit shallower and then and you're looking
for those holes and the grass that's where
it comes in handy right you can target you get
a kind of a bigger picture and and that's why it's kind of of key having two
(23:17):
what with two active targets i can have one in forward i kind of it's kind of
nice to have one in forward and one in scout i can i can use that scout to scan
around and see those holes in the grass because those holes equate to shell beds right.
And so that gives you the ability to then take that forward and then hone it
(23:39):
in where it is more specific.
And the same thing, when I was up north, I would take that scout mode and I
would look for those packs on the outside edges and it helped me scan in more
of like a scan mode, right?
You and I, that's what we're used to down, right? Put it in like a scan mode.
You're scanning and then it's like, okay.
(24:00):
Then you go to target acquisition mode when you go to ford
right you're like you're switching switching it over
which kind of brings up way that i kind of like to do do from a technique which
is you get asked this question a lot how do you mount it i am a turret guy i
don't know how you mount it i like to put mine on a turret because i like my
trolling motor be independent of it what's what's your thoughts on it so i got
(24:23):
the turret i haven't put it on yet i'm still,
i'm still running off the trolling motor shaft and you know i've fished with some guys who are.
Absolute experts with four-face sonar down
texas and that's how they do it so i'm still
kind of stuck in that i got the toward i'm going to use it i'm going to try
it because i can still put it on the turret and keep it where i can use the
(24:45):
trolling motor but i see where the turret's going to help me especially if i'm
i'm wanting to hit anchor on the ghost trolling motor and then scan around if
If they're loaded up and they're coming through on a hump or a point,
you know, moving out to their summer hots coming up here after the post-pawn.
So, yeah, I think there's an advantage to both of them.
(25:06):
The one thing about having it on the shaft is you got to – one thing I tell
guys, you got to keep your foot on the trolling motor at all times.
You have to. And, you know, that gets tiring.
So, you know, I think that's where the turret has that advantage.
That's my take on it. Yeah, I kind of like – me, I've had it on the trolling
motor, and then I got it on the turret.
(25:29):
I'm particularly – I like the – there's a couple different brands out there,
but I'm particularly – I like the Foresight turret. It does really well.
Because it doesn't require a dog bone to stabilize it.
Everything doesn't have to be perfectly balanced with a dog bone, it does.
And if you got to try and turn that trolling motor one way or the other,
(25:50):
it starts getting in a bind.
So I like with that four-side, it's completely independent.
It's all Bluetooth. There's no wiring to it other than just the power.
And you can actually detach it completely and take it off your trolling motor.
Or if you're up shallow shallow and heavy
thick grass and you just want to remove it and not have it sticking out
(26:10):
there which is really a cool deal but i like the turret because
man if you're fighting wind and you're trying to stay on course i can still
get and i saw this up in up up north you can you can stay on the fish by just
little movements with that turret right and so it because Because up there,
(26:31):
for some reason, they did not want to be dropped straight down on.
They wanted to be cast to, so it was so important to be stayed back off of them
and being able to be able to cast right to them.
And so I think from a perspective of that, that's where I found the turret was such a cool deal.
(26:51):
And I think that's...
It it's kind of a good tool for that
i think a lot of people don't like it on a tour because
of what i just talked about that if you get up in grass or things like
that there's just more for it to kind of more things for it to kind of hang
on to but that's where i think that the part with the foresight is really cool
because you can actually detach it and remove it pretty pretty easy i mean it's
(27:15):
just one little screw that undoes and comes off and lays on the deck of the
boat so So it's really, really cool.
Melts up there really, really cool with that.
And the other thing, too, is I should do some prototype testing for AMP Marine
for some clamps that just slip on and secure your active target cables to the
(27:37):
shaft of that foresight.
And this is what a lot of people don't know is it's really important that you
don't damage those cables to your active target, right?
So you can't zip tie them. You got to make sure they're free flowing.
You know, you don't want anything to cut into that, those cables at all.
Yeah, that's another great point. Yeah.
(27:59):
You know, I've been, you know, I've installed a lot of systems and a lot of
different electronics for people over the years. And I got away from zip ties
probably over about a decade ago.
And I went to, you know, black electrical tape.
And then also, you know, other different types of harnesses.
(28:19):
But I think one of the best things that's worked for me is Velcro.
Yeah. Using Velcro straps, the Velcro zip ties. Those work perfect. Yeah.
You have to get to some of the Ant Marine ones because they actually clip on.
And then they're actually, they're free flow. The cable is actually free-floating
through the portion, and so there's nothing touching at all,
(28:40):
which is really, really cool. Yeah, give me some, Sean.
That's what's really cool with that. So I think that setup with the turret,
and then you add the forward-facing in there,
with that allows you to do it a lot more minute adjustments with that narrower
cone angle is really what makes it even – you're even able to go more detailed with it.
(29:03):
Because then you can make it's what's really cool i tell
this story you know the boy you know
the boys were with me this summer and we were fishing and they had not
they had not really experienced that forward-facing sonar right and we go fishing
and we get out there and we get to catching them and i'm trying you know you
know how it is we you got boys too right we're always trying we're always trying
(29:25):
to get them to experience and have fun and and you know they.
I'm like, there's a fish right there, Ethan. Throw it right there.
You know, I think I told James to throw it right there, right?
And I just happened to have my, I had thrown over there with my,
I think it may have been a Carolina rig.
I don't remember. A Carolina rig or a jig. I don't remember.
(29:46):
Because I could see this brush pile. And I could see this big old fish on this
thing. But I wasn't even trying to catch it, right?
And, like, I wouldn't even, like, pull it up to the brush pile when I saw it.
But the boat is like the cool thing with the turret is the
boat is completely side you know
alongside of this brush ball because i'm able to turn
that turret and and and see to
(30:09):
the side of the boat right so that was
i was like there's a big and they're like yeah right dad so
finally they can't get it so finally i pulled that i pulled that carolina
rig up to that brush ball and it was like a six pounder and
they were like their mouths were like wide open i'm like i told told you there was a big fish
there you just had to throw right there i said throw right there and
that's all you had to do so it was it was funny but cool but
(30:31):
and final was we talk about active tart ford fishing
so the only thing that i'm kind of interested in and and i haven't seen i've
seen a lot of guys that are putting it on the back of their boat so that's kind
of something that maybe that i look at in the future i don't know about you
yeah i'm doing it i'm doing it i got it i'm I've got a buddy who's going to
make me a certain bracket for it.
(30:53):
But I'm going to go ahead and do it. I want to see. I want to try it.
I want to see what I can do with it.
I want to use the technology to the best advantage I can.
But, you know, I like to idle. I'm still old school. I still like 2D.
I still like down imaging. I still like side scan.
And I want to see what that looks like and what picture that's going to give
(31:14):
me when I'm idling around looking for spots, right?
So I've been looking for structure or even seeing what that side scan looks
like, brush piles, rock piles, whatever.
And then if there's fish on it and those little dots and shadows you see,
I can look on that active target that's on the back of my boat and go,
(31:35):
yep, that's bass or nope, that's a drum.
That's a bunch of crappie or white bass or whatever. And I can eliminate a bunch
of areas. really is going to save me a lot of time, make me more efficient because
I just don't have all that time.
You know, I don't have days to just go out and spend on the water.
You know, I might get a couple of hours and you got to make the most of it.
I think that's where for me it's going to come in handy.
(31:58):
Yeah, I'm excited. And so that may end up with like three active targets on the boat. I don't know.
I may just go to one in front and one on the back. I haven't made up my mind yet.
That's kind of a tough decision for me. But I kind of want to look at that on
the new boat, the new Skeeter FXR.
I'm going to have it coming here real soon and just kind of going from there.
(32:18):
But, you know, it's been fun talking about this topic because it's not going anywhere.
Where i mean it's it's here to stay as much
as people you know either adapt or you know get
left behind and uh we've seen it our whole military career
you know the guys who can't adapt they you know they
they they end up washing out or whatever technology is
going to continue to change and and it's a it's only
(32:40):
a tool you still got to go out you still got to catch them you
got to learn how to use them i mean i'm sure there were
things before you know when we got
not you know the things that we have other things that
we have on the boat everybody said oh it's going to ruin bass fishing you
know we everybody said that power poles that were
you know all these things that we have it's
all been tools and you just got to make them put together and that's
(33:03):
how you use them and forward-facing sonar is nothing no different to that and
so you know for the listeners we're going to have to you know say for us it's
a must i mean i i love it it's not it It doesn't – I don't think it takes anything
away from fishing. I think it's part of –.
The arsenal now and it's just an arsenal it's a tool you
(33:27):
got to learn how to use it you just like you learn how to
use everything else i mean when you learn how to throw a rod and
reel it took time so to figure that part out so
do the same thing with your electronics and i think that's important i know
brent is it's cool to talk this topic with you i know we're going to get some
other topics that's discussed but this is kind of what we wanted to do with
this podcast to talk some of the stuff that this topics in the industries or
(33:50):
things from the show i know we want to we want to Brian Yon,
you and I talked this past weekend.
We're going to get somebody from Lowrance to come on and talk bigger picture from Lowrance.
Yeah. And that's going to be really cool to have that discussion.
And I think that's a lot of fun to have those type of discussions.
So I really appreciate you being on with me today and jumping on.
(34:10):
You know, we got coming up.
We're actually filming a hog show this week and hog hunting.
And next week, Brent and I are going to be down in Toledo Bend
in for the toby texas oilman's bass invitational which
benefits the texas children's hospital and that's always a lot
of fun to be a part of that and raise money for
such a great event and brent and i are going to get to do a
(34:31):
little bit of bass fishing while we're down there which is going to be a lot of fun because i
would tell you i have not got to wet a line in 2024 yet because i have been
busy as all get out so i'm super excited i don't know about you brent but i
oh yeah yeah yeah that's why i won my first force on force championship down
there so it's i got a lot of memories out of Cypress Bend Park down there.
So it's going to be a lot of fun, but I appreciate it.
(34:53):
Hey, if you guys want to know more about, uh, army bass, anglers,
buck bass, hog, or duck, you know, go to forceonforcetv.com.
Thanks for listening and Brent, appreciate you being a part of it.
Cool. Yeah, absolutely. Cool.
Thanks for listening to the force on force podcast. Join us next time.
As we dive into more topics from the force on force talk for more information
(35:14):
or to learn how to join the organization, visit our website at forceonforcetv.com.
Force on Force features the largest and strongest outdoor military organization in the country.
These are the men and women who make it possible to enjoy the freedom to hunt and fish.
It is with great pride that we bring you Force on Force podcast,
coming to you from the Force on Force talk.
Hey, welcome to the Force on Force podcast. This is Sean Dourple,
(00:22):
your host. We're here in the Force on Force talk.
We start everything in the Tactical Operations Center. All
our shows start start there and all our military operations
start there this is really unique for for me because this is
going to be my first force on force talk podcast
on the road got a three-week stretch i'm here on the road so very very excited
(00:42):
to try and bring this new part of what we're doing with uh all our branches
and bass buck hog duck and redfish to you and doing it from the road so So just
like in many military operations,
we have a mobile talk sometimes, and that's what we're doing right now.
But this one's going to be kind of cool because we want to talk today about
a hot topic, which is forward-facing sonar. To do that, I'm going to bring in
(01:06):
one of the bass guys, Brent Hill. Welcome, Brent Hill.
And how are you doing? Man, I'm doing good, Sean. How are you?
Good. So a little bit of background. Brent Hill is man
Brent's like myself man we're we're
we're electronics junkies in
particular our ants guys man we uh I live and breathe and uh that's kind of
(01:29):
where I cut my teeth in the fishing side was with Navico and Lowrance and so
forward-facing sonar is a big topic for us and we're going to discuss that because
there's a lot of controversy about what's going on and forward-facing sonar,
and we want to discuss that.
But more importantly, Britt, you know, Britt's a lieutenant colonel.
(01:50):
Field artillery guy and got a lot of background, what, 26 years of active duty service?
Coming up, yeah. Yeah, so battalion commander right now.
So really cool to have Brent as part of this. He's done those really cool things
in his career and very knowledgeable.
And I think that's what's really cool about what we do.
(02:11):
We have the technical background from what we did in the military,
and that really translates really well to understanding this stuff.
On the fishing and hunting side. And that's why I think Brent and I have both
been very successful with Lowrance and Navico on the teaching from a sonar perspective
and in that perspective.
(02:34):
Is that kind of how you see it, Brent? Yeah. You know, like you said,
we've, I mean, combined with both of us, we've probably been with Lowrance for 20 plus years.
And any time that new new sonar comes
out we are are usually on the on the
cutting edge of doing product development testing for
low rents but more importantly we like
(02:56):
to teach it like you said to other people too and i kind
of still do that to this day so yeah teaching is a big part of
it but you got to understand it and i think we're
gonna get into that yeah and i think part of
our understanding is you and i have been man with
what we've done in the military and we we
we're constantly having having new technology thrown
(03:17):
at us throughout our careers but you know yeah i did my first part of my career
as an infantry guy and i did i had some very cool stuff thrown to me down range
in your field artillery guy especially then when i got over into the signal
world man i was all the time on the cutting edge and so you got to be comfortable
with change we always talk about that,
change is a big deal and i think we're seeing that in the fishing world right
(03:39):
now and there's a lot of controversy around that change wouldn't you agree I agree.
Yeah, I would. I mean, it was just like, I think it was a couple of years ago
and you and I were talking about GPS and self-locating systems and how we were
talking about how that translated from, you know, military equipment and self-locating systems,
specifically howitzers and mortars, to what's on our boats and using the 0.1
(04:00):
and everything and how that really helps you.
But now we're talking about something that's totally more
technologically advanced with forward facing sonar
and yeah it's a topic it's the elephant in the
room if you would say yeah i would tell you
that's the big thing both tours where it's the bass or
the mlf you get on any kind of
(04:22):
fishing forum you see anything on facebook you see
everybody's talking about it right now forward facing sonar whether
it's good for fishing whether it's
bad no you know you say oh i don't want to watch a tournament with
forward-facing sonar and then you got everybody.
On the other side that says you know adapt or
(04:42):
or you're die i mean it's how do
you kind of feel about that from your perspective i i
like forward-facing sonar i like side scan
down imaging 2d i i.
Like the tech stuff like you said i'm a techie i i
don't get the controversy because it seems like like
you got two camps you got a camp on the left that really.
(05:05):
Is all for it you got a camp on the right that absolutely.
Hates it but you have a little bit of few people they.
Really don't care and they're kind of in the middle but there's a
lot of the top names in the sport on both of the
of the big tours that have been pretty vocal
about it i watched a podcast early this
morning before getting after work and they were
talking about the last two bass events at fork and that toledo been
(05:28):
you know the majority of that discussion wasn't about
the fishing it was about forward facing sonar so you
know the tournament trails are are all over at
the pro level so it's it's a
big topic of discussion d you know it's
funny you brought you brought up side scan and down imaging it's
almost like we had the same discussion around 2008 2009
(05:51):
when you know side imaging became came
kind of uh the new the new thing and
then down imaging around 2009 when the ranch was
the first kind of come out with it in 2009 and 10 you
know everybody saw you know it's kind of it's running tournament
fishing it's running fishing and we had the same discussion back
then and it's almost the same same deal so
(06:13):
kind of you know it's not
something that we've it's new to the industry i
think we've had the same discussion around electronics on on boats for as we
continue to develop it you're going to continue to have these discussions so
people are just having to adapt to it so I don't think that it's an issue being
(06:35):
new to that discussion I think it's.
I don't really know how to frame it other than, you know, people are just,
they don't like change. They're comfortable in the way they do things.
I think a lot, I see a lot of people, not just, and I'm talking every fisherman
now, not just the tournament thing, the people say they don't want to watch it.
(06:57):
Is it because they don't want to have to learn how to use it?
Because I get this question a lot. I'm sure you do too.
When we teach classes, give me a, give me a cheat sheet, give me a simple way
to figure out how to use my, use my electronics. And now we're introducing forward-facing
sonar. And so that's a whole new thing that we got to add to the equation.
They want to cheat sheet on that. And there's really no cheat sheet other than
(07:17):
just getting out there in time on the water.
Is that how you see that part of it? Oh, 100% agree.
When I do teaching, you know, on the water teaching lessons, you know, I'll show,
you know, the client, hey, this is, these are my settings of,
you know, I'll go up or down on these basic settings and, you know,
teach people, you know, where I try to keep the screen and, you know,
(07:38):
lure brightness and fish brightness, all that business.
But also try to teach them the why behind it.
You know, we talk about cone width and feet by,
you know, how far it's out as far as distance in front of the boat and try to
give them a little bit of background so they can visualize in their head how
this technology is working so they can become a better angler.
(07:58):
Because before, and you brought up side scan, down scan, or down imaging,
you know, We were talking about just idling around looking for drop-offs on points and humps.
Even when mapping came out, that was a thing where people were like,
oh, it's going to cause all the – we're going to catch all the fish in the lake. That's not true.
(08:20):
We used to fish, what, 15%, 20% of the lake, all those spots.
And now what we're seeing with forward-faced sonar is there's fish using a lot
of that lake that we didn't even think they lived or stayed or swam in, right?
So I don't know. I like it. I think it's a useful tool.
But again, it's a tool. You got to know how to use it. And I think the first
(08:44):
thing, in my opinion, is you got to understand what it is.
Instead of just throwing it on your boat, put it on 85% gain,
you know, 85 feet out at 25 feet and start, you just automatically catch fish.
You got to have time on the water.
I think that's key. I mean, I tell people a lot when they ask me that question,
hey, give me a cheat sheet. The first thing I tell them is this –.
(09:04):
Take all your rods and reels out of your boat, leave them at the house,
and go spend a day on the water with your units. You want to learn how to use forward-facing sonar?
You want to use – you do that, right? Because here's the deal.
It's nothing but time on the water. You spend one good day out there figuring
that out, learning what it looks like, learning what things are.
(09:25):
It's going to help you throughout the year.
I think that's what they don't. That's why I think there's a big issue with
it because you've got to figure it out.
I sometimes feel guilty because I think
you and I and just all military guys in
general we kind of have a leg up on it to me when I look at when I look at forward-facing
sonar to me it's nothing more than ISR from downrange you know getting a feed
(09:49):
from a predator or drone right and so for me it's an easy visualization to be
able to see what I'm seeing on the screen and so but I even but I I always say this,
I always go back to learning what, what it is.
I can take the, I can have the same active target forward facing sonar,
but be on two different boats.
And it's still going to take me a little bit of time because each boat set up
(10:12):
a little bit different. The way that angle of that transducer is going to need
to be adjusted a little bit different.
And so there's no substitute with just spending time with your electronics.
And I think that's what everybody misses.
And that's what they don't want to do is spend that time in the water.
They don't want – they're so afraid that if they spend a little bit of time
working on their electronics, it's going to take away from their fishing.
(10:33):
And I think that's, to me, one of the biggest reasons there's such a fight with,
oh, forward-facing soldiers are going to ruin fishing because they don't want
to take the time to learn it.
And really, if they'll just take a day to go out there and do it,
their fishing for the rest of the year will be a whole lot better for them.
And that's what I kind of tell them. you know well i mean let's let's relate
(10:54):
this to military training right the more time you got on the range.
Putting in the work, honing your craft, the better you're going to be behind the trigger.
The more time this correlates directly to on the water, the more time you are
working that active target screen, making those simple minor adjustments,
(11:14):
the better you're going to be at targeting these fish.
I mean, that's a simple correlation for us, you know, practice. It makes perfect.
It does, and I think that's where we kind of get it.
And that's what i you know i want to kind of communicate
out and that kind of transition to what we wanted to kind of
talk about is is what are some of our kind
(11:35):
of our tips and techniques because you and i both believe in it we know
it's not going to go anywhere we love it i mean we
we know it's a real game changer probably the most overused term
in the industry but it really does kind of change the way you fish
i mean i always tell people i went to and being
on that duty for 22 years you i've got to fish a
lot of different places right but one place i've never
(11:55):
got to go is up north and fish for smallmouth grew up fishing
for smallmouth on tennessee river loved it but never
got to go up north and fish for smallmouth so last summer
got to take a trip spend a whole week up there fishing for
smallmouth and really loved it
and it really was about active target right really came
down to use an active target to
(12:16):
catch smallmouth up there and it was just amazing to to use it
to do that and to target those bigger smallmouth on
the outer other edges of those schools so that's
what we kind of want to talk about is is and we're going
to talk about some of the things that and whether it's
cone width or just where it's down
you know forward down or scout mode what what we use for each one and how how.
(12:41):
We kind of do it so what what what do you think it's kind of when we talk about
cone size so that the listeners kind of I understand that kind of lay it out
to him. What, what makes a difference in cone size sprint?
Well, low rents.
Is the leader right now in the cone size so low rant's active target is the 18 degree cone angle,
(13:03):
all right so when you look at the competitors and i'm
not going to name them but you look at the other forward facing sonars they're
a 20 degree cone angle so what does that mean when you
look at a surface danger zone and you're looking at a rifle range and you know
that you are safe on these left and right limits i i correlate it directly to
an sdz if you will when i'm looking at distance on the active target at 30 feet
(13:26):
at an 18 degree cone angle it's 9.5 feet of width,
okay about the width of your boat at 30 feet if
you look at the competitors they're almost 11 feet that's three more feet or
two more feet if you will wider so low rance is going to give you a a tighter
(13:46):
angle or sight picture through your forward face of sonar at 30 feet and all the way out.
So when you get out to 90 feet, which I'll give away a little secret,
I keep mine on 90 feet distance when I'm fishing for bass.
At 90 feet, I'm at 28 feet cone width. The competitors are out there at almost 34.
(14:09):
That's four feet, right? So when you're throwing at 70, 80, 90 feet.
To a bass and i'm sure we'll get into it later and i'll give the listeners some
tips on on how i've i'm targeting these bigger than average bass and catching
them you got a better chance at hitting the spot it may be a tighter cone angle
it may be harder for people to,
(14:31):
really kind of get used to at the beginning but once you figure out that cone angle.
You can get on target almost every single time. And that's what I like about
it. When you talk about active target, it is really a target.
You're throwing at that target. That cone angle is important.
But, Sean, I want to bring something up before we start talking about really cone angle.
Let's talk about the beginning of how you can get the best screen.
(14:54):
The best way to get this product to work for you is power.
Right. And your wiring harness and setting it up properly with the best battery on the market.
But 90% of the time that I'm talking to clients or other people I'm trying to
teach this to, they miss these critical components in the powering their systems.
(15:15):
So I think we need to address the power issue first.
Yeah, no, there's no doubt about that. I talk about that a lot too,
and it comes down. I always say, and I'll use very generic terms of this.
So I always say, whether you're talking whatever transducer you're talking, right?
And I just use 1,000 kilohertz. If you don't have the right power,
(15:36):
right, for us, we use Dakota lithium batteries, right, to get the power short.
And then I'm running a C-Clear power harness to give me a dedicated wiring harness
to run that power all the way to all my units on its own circuit.
What I tell people is if you don't have that setup, if your transducer is ping.
(15:56):
And I use 1,000 kilohertz because it's a very generic number and it's easy for
people to understand that.
If it's if you're not having that your transducer
is not going to ping in a thousand kilohertz what affects the clarity
of that image on your screen right so it's
going to ping at maybe 600 kilohertz or maybe
400 kilohertz maybe it pings back up to
(16:18):
800 kilohertz so that's why you get
a lot of people that you and i know
that you've heard them say that well my screen doesn't look like anything
I saw in a demo model or it doesn't look like anything I
see and that's because their power is not
they don't have the right battery setup and they don't have it on on
its own separate c-clear harness to to
(16:39):
provide power like steady
power source to get the maximum of that
transducer pinging at what it's designed to
ping at right if it's whatever it is whether it's a
thousand 1000 kilohertz 800 whatever it was
designed to ping at it's not going to do that because it's
not getting enough amps going to it and
(17:00):
that's where it becomes an issue it's going to affect even if
you got the right cone size you're still not going to get the maximum you know
usage out of that that transducer when it when it does ping because you're not
getting the right power for it and that's where it comes in so critical i know
you and i have installed a lot of those wiring harnesses and I've always amazed at it.
(17:22):
People come back and they'll tell us beforehand, oh, I don't really have a power
issue or it can't really make that big a difference.
And then you install it and then they come back and they're like,
wow, I can't believe that it solved all my power issues.
And my graphs are so much cleaner from a perspective of what we're asking them to do now.
(17:46):
You've got to have that power to do it. It's like, you know,
I need more power, you know.
Yeah from star trek yeah absolutely you
you can have the right battery but if you don't have the right the
right source to take it from the battery to the to the
units themselves it does no does no good it's the
combination between the battery and the wiring harness that makes all the difference
(18:08):
in the world yeah and you know if a lot of guys are just hooking straight up
to the to the boats harness that's already in there and it just it's not dedicated
it's ran through a couple different different distribution blocks and it's cut
off. It's not getting full power.
So, that's the first thing I start with. So, if you want to get the most out
of your forward-facing sonar system, power, in my opinion, and I think your
(18:30):
opinion, is the number one thing you got to start with. Start with your power source.
But yeah, going back to the cone angle, 18-degree cone angle.
I mean, if I'm flipping something at 25 feet, I've got,
you know, seven and a half feet right there for me
to hit that target and you know keeping that target
that's the brightest it can be the lure
(18:51):
and the fish i'm usually right there
within a foot and if you got decent clarity that fish
is going to see that bait and if it's ready to bite it's going to come after
it and you're going to see it but i think it's critical to have the right power
so you could see that fish react to your bait yeah and you learn a lot from
it too because there's days where you can see the fish and you you can see your
bait and then you can see that they don't want to have anything to do with it either too. Exactly.
(19:15):
So that's kind of key. And I think with that,
for for everybody to just everybody else just
to narrow that cone angle the more detail
the picture you you would think oh i want a wider so
i could see more no it's that exactly the opposite the more narrow
is the narrow that you take the
same frequency and you you put it in a narrow cone and
(19:36):
you're taking all that power and put it in in a smaller space
so it's giving you more detail to the picture and that's what
we're after with and that's why lorenz has has that
ability to give you that forward look um look
on it and uh so that's that's
kind of the key to it and it just just
(19:57):
a piece of it to to do it you gotta in case
you guys don't hear that's that's archer and his rare where someone came up
and he he's people at shows don't really get to hear him ever they always ask
me he doesn't ever bark but he he does occasionally when we're at home and so
So when we're on the road and at the warehouse, he does, he does bark a little bit.
(20:19):
Yeah. So he's, he's, like I said, I think I talked about it when we were at
a show here this last week in Oklahoma city.
He's, he's a field dog. He's not a garrison dog. That's right.
He's not good in garrison.
He's not good in garrison. He is. And that is such a true statement,
but yeah, no, but yeah, that cone angle is key.
I think from that perspective and when you're talking forward facing and,
(20:41):
and, and you do, you know you do a lot you
make your own glide baits and i think you've really had
a lot of experience with those glide baits you know it's very important using
forward facing sonar with those glide baits and and so you've got a lot of stuff
going on to kind of learn from that what what other things what what conditions
you know i just get asked when do i i know when i'm going to use forward facing sonar i got kind of.
(21:05):
Times because i like i'm waiting on my new boat to come in
right now so i typically put two active targets up
there and which allows me to run one
in ford and the other in
scout mode so i have my opinions on
why i like scout mode what's your kind of thoughts
on scout mode what does it kind of do for you yeah so
(21:26):
i'm only running one active target to transducer right
now but i do switch it to scout i got the scout mount
and then i got the ford mount so i'll switch it but it's
based on conditions and it's based on what i'm doing and
and most of that is really based on the depth the time of
the year so coming up here quick in oklahoma and
in texas where i'm fishing the most around this area and
(21:48):
i'll be in toledo bend here in a couple weeks doing it i'm
probably going to be in scout mode as i'm out there looking for
those beds or looking for some fish movement that are
probably a little bit off the bank where you can't see them so
that's what i'm and i can also you know look at those stumps or
brush piles in scout mode and throw mine you know i
like to throw a spinner bait i'm oklahoma guy so i'm gonna throw a spinner bait
(22:09):
up there on those brush piles you you just can't see the best get the best view
out of on four faces sonar so i like throwing that thing in scout mode when
i'm about 12 foot or less so that's kind of my trigger to go to scout mode mode
and specifically like pre-spawn,
spawn and post-spawn when those fish are really up there in the shallower,
(22:32):
less than 15 foot range.
That's kind of my trigger for that. But right now I'm still kind of in the forward,
you know, facing forward mode.
And I only go to down when I'm, you know, I'm really crappie fishing or,
or if I do go up north to Mille Lacs
or some other small all-mouse factory where i can get over
them deep and drop shot right on but that's why i turned
(22:55):
mine to scout mode sean yeah here's where
i found scout mode to be really handy in and around some grass
like particularly like gunner's full and that's
really kind of when you get up a little bit shallower and then and you're looking
for those holes and the grass that's where
it comes in handy right you can target you get
a kind of a bigger picture and and that's why it's kind of of key having two
(23:17):
what with two active targets i can have one in forward i kind of it's kind of
nice to have one in forward and one in scout i can i can use that scout to scan
around and see those holes in the grass because those holes equate to shell beds right.
And so that gives you the ability to then take that forward and then hone it
(23:39):
in where it is more specific.
And the same thing, when I was up north, I would take that scout mode and I
would look for those packs on the outside edges and it helped me scan in more
of like a scan mode, right?
You and I, that's what we're used to down, right? Put it in like a scan mode.
You're scanning and then it's like, okay.
(24:00):
Then you go to target acquisition mode when you go to ford
right you're like you're switching switching it over
which kind of brings up way that i kind of like to do do from a technique which
is you get asked this question a lot how do you mount it i am a turret guy i
don't know how you mount it i like to put mine on a turret because i like my
trolling motor be independent of it what's what's your thoughts on it so i got
(24:23):
the turret i haven't put it on yet i'm still,
i'm still running off the trolling motor shaft and you know i've fished with some guys who are.
Absolute experts with four-face sonar down
texas and that's how they do it so i'm still
kind of stuck in that i got the toward i'm going to use it i'm going to try
it because i can still put it on the turret and keep it where i can use the
(24:45):
trolling motor but i see where the turret's going to help me especially if i'm
i'm wanting to hit anchor on the ghost trolling motor and then scan around if
If they're loaded up and they're coming through on a hump or a point,
you know, moving out to their summer hots coming up here after the post-pawn.
So, yeah, I think there's an advantage to both of them.
(25:06):
The one thing about having it on the shaft is you got to – one thing I tell
guys, you got to keep your foot on the trolling motor at all times.
You have to. And, you know, that gets tiring.
So, you know, I think that's where the turret has that advantage.
That's my take on it. Yeah, I kind of like – me, I've had it on the trolling
motor, and then I got it on the turret.
(25:29):
I'm particularly – I like the – there's a couple different brands out there,
but I'm particularly – I like the Foresight turret. It does really well.
Because it doesn't require a dog bone to stabilize it.
Everything doesn't have to be perfectly balanced with a dog bone, it does.
And if you got to try and turn that trolling motor one way or the other,
(25:50):
it starts getting in a bind.
So I like with that four-side, it's completely independent.
It's all Bluetooth. There's no wiring to it other than just the power.
And you can actually detach it completely and take it off your trolling motor.
Or if you're up shallow shallow and heavy
thick grass and you just want to remove it and not have it sticking out
(26:10):
there which is really a cool deal but i like the turret because
man if you're fighting wind and you're trying to stay on course i can still
get and i saw this up in up up north you can you can stay on the fish by just
little movements with that turret right and so it because Because up there,
(26:31):
for some reason, they did not want to be dropped straight down on.
They wanted to be cast to, so it was so important to be stayed back off of them
and being able to be able to cast right to them.
And so I think from a perspective of that, that's where I found the turret was such a cool deal.
(26:51):
And I think that's...
It it's kind of a good tool for that
i think a lot of people don't like it on a tour because
of what i just talked about that if you get up in grass or things like
that there's just more for it to kind of more things for it to kind of hang
on to but that's where i think that the part with the foresight is really cool
because you can actually detach it and remove it pretty pretty easy i mean it's
(27:15):
just one little screw that undoes and comes off and lays on the deck of the
boat so So it's really, really cool.
Melts up there really, really cool with that.
And the other thing, too, is I should do some prototype testing for AMP Marine
for some clamps that just slip on and secure your active target cables to the
(27:37):
shaft of that foresight.
And this is what a lot of people don't know is it's really important that you
don't damage those cables to your active target, right?
So you can't zip tie them. You got to make sure they're free flowing.
You know, you don't want anything to cut into that, those cables at all.
Yeah, that's another great point. Yeah.
(27:59):
You know, I've been, you know, I've installed a lot of systems and a lot of
different electronics for people over the years. And I got away from zip ties
probably over about a decade ago.
And I went to, you know, black electrical tape.
And then also, you know, other different types of harnesses.
(28:19):
But I think one of the best things that's worked for me is Velcro.
Yeah. Using Velcro straps, the Velcro zip ties. Those work perfect. Yeah.
You have to get to some of the Ant Marine ones because they actually clip on.
And then they're actually, they're free flow. The cable is actually free-floating
through the portion, and so there's nothing touching at all,
(28:40):
which is really, really cool. Yeah, give me some, Sean.
That's what's really cool with that. So I think that setup with the turret,
and then you add the forward-facing in there,
with that allows you to do it a lot more minute adjustments with that narrower
cone angle is really what makes it even – you're even able to go more detailed with it.
(29:03):
Because then you can make it's what's really cool i tell
this story you know the boy you know
the boys were with me this summer and we were fishing and they had not
they had not really experienced that forward-facing sonar right and we go fishing
and we get out there and we get to catching them and i'm trying you know you
know how it is we you got boys too right we're always trying we're always trying
(29:25):
to get them to experience and have fun and and you know they.
I'm like, there's a fish right there, Ethan. Throw it right there.
You know, I think I told James to throw it right there, right?
And I just happened to have my, I had thrown over there with my,
I think it may have been a Carolina rig.
I don't remember. A Carolina rig or a jig. I don't remember.
(29:46):
Because I could see this brush pile. And I could see this big old fish on this
thing. But I wasn't even trying to catch it, right?
And, like, I wouldn't even, like, pull it up to the brush pile when I saw it.
But the boat is like the cool thing with the turret is the
boat is completely side you know
alongside of this brush ball because i'm able to turn
that turret and and and see to
(30:09):
the side of the boat right so that was
i was like there's a big and they're like yeah right dad so
finally they can't get it so finally i pulled that i pulled that carolina
rig up to that brush ball and it was like a six pounder and
they were like their mouths were like wide open i'm like i told told you there was a big fish
there you just had to throw right there i said throw right there and
that's all you had to do so it was it was funny but cool but
(30:31):
and final was we talk about active tart ford fishing
so the only thing that i'm kind of interested in and and i haven't seen i've
seen a lot of guys that are putting it on the back of their boat so that's kind
of something that maybe that i look at in the future i don't know about you
yeah i'm doing it i'm doing it i got it i'm I've got a buddy who's going to
make me a certain bracket for it.
(30:53):
But I'm going to go ahead and do it. I want to see. I want to try it.
I want to see what I can do with it.
I want to use the technology to the best advantage I can.
But, you know, I like to idle. I'm still old school. I still like 2D.
I still like down imaging. I still like side scan.
And I want to see what that looks like and what picture that's going to give
(31:14):
me when I'm idling around looking for spots, right?
So I've been looking for structure or even seeing what that side scan looks
like, brush piles, rock piles, whatever.
And then if there's fish on it and those little dots and shadows you see,
I can look on that active target that's on the back of my boat and go,
(31:35):
yep, that's bass or nope, that's a drum.
That's a bunch of crappie or white bass or whatever. And I can eliminate a bunch
of areas. really is going to save me a lot of time, make me more efficient because
I just don't have all that time.
You know, I don't have days to just go out and spend on the water.
You know, I might get a couple of hours and you got to make the most of it.
I think that's where for me it's going to come in handy.
(31:58):
Yeah, I'm excited. And so that may end up with like three active targets on the boat. I don't know.
I may just go to one in front and one on the back. I haven't made up my mind yet.
That's kind of a tough decision for me. But I kind of want to look at that on
the new boat, the new Skeeter FXR.
I'm going to have it coming here real soon and just kind of going from there.
(32:18):
But, you know, it's been fun talking about this topic because it's not going anywhere.
Where i mean it's it's here to stay as much
as people you know either adapt or you know get
left behind and uh we've seen it our whole military career
you know the guys who can't adapt they you know they
they they end up washing out or whatever technology is
going to continue to change and and it's a it's only
(32:40):
a tool you still got to go out you still got to catch them you
got to learn how to use them i mean i'm sure there were
things before you know when we got
not you know the things that we have other things that
we have on the boat everybody said oh it's going to ruin bass fishing you
know we everybody said that power poles that were
you know all these things that we have it's
all been tools and you just got to make them put together and that's
(33:03):
how you use them and forward-facing sonar is nothing no different to that and
so you know for the listeners we're going to have to you know say for us it's
a must i mean i i love it it's not it It doesn't – I don't think it takes anything
away from fishing. I think it's part of –.
The arsenal now and it's just an arsenal it's a tool you
(33:27):
got to learn how to use it you just like you learn how to
use everything else i mean when you learn how to throw a rod and
reel it took time so to figure that part out so
do the same thing with your electronics and i think that's important i know
brent is it's cool to talk this topic with you i know we're going to get some
other topics that's discussed but this is kind of what we wanted to do with
this podcast to talk some of the stuff that this topics in the industries or
(33:50):
things from the show i know we want to we want to Brian Yon,
you and I talked this past weekend.
We're going to get somebody from Lowrance to come on and talk bigger picture from Lowrance.
Yeah. And that's going to be really cool to have that discussion.
And I think that's a lot of fun to have those type of discussions.
So I really appreciate you being on with me today and jumping on.
(34:10):
You know, we got coming up.
We're actually filming a hog show this week and hog hunting.
And next week, Brent and I are going to be down in Toledo Bend
in for the toby texas oilman's bass invitational which
benefits the texas children's hospital and that's always a lot
of fun to be a part of that and raise money for
such a great event and brent and i are going to get to do a
(34:31):
little bit of bass fishing while we're down there which is going to be a lot of fun because i
would tell you i have not got to wet a line in 2024 yet because i have been
busy as all get out so i'm super excited i don't know about you brent but i
oh yeah yeah yeah that's why i won my first force on force championship down
there so it's i got a lot of memories out of Cypress Bend Park down there.
So it's going to be a lot of fun, but I appreciate it.
(34:53):
Hey, if you guys want to know more about, uh, army bass, anglers,
buck bass, hog, or duck, you know, go to forceonforcetv.com.
Thanks for listening and Brent, appreciate you being a part of it.
Cool. Yeah, absolutely. Cool.
Thanks for listening to the force on force podcast. Join us next time.
As we dive into more topics from the force on force talk for more information
(35:14):
or to learn how to join the organization, visit our website at forceonforcetv.com.
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