April 3, 2024 • 39 mins
Welcome to the exhilarating sphere of outdoor military sports on "Force on Force TOC". In this captivating podcast episode, host Shawn Dalrymple and his veteran guest, Jake Whiteside, explore the innate joy and therapeutic power of hobbies such as hunting amidst military responsibilities. From sharing nostalgic hunting anecdotes to offering valuable tips, they discuss the magnitude of finding balancing activities as an escape from military stressors.
Shawn and Jake talk about the upcoming turkey season, the art of crafting custom calls and the beauty of personifying these sounds. Their passion for hunting and military life shines through as they dive into the necessity of having keen observation skills, effective hearing aids, and a profound understanding of the prey for a successful venture.
The episode introduces listeners to Jake, who unravels his most riveting encounters and experiences with turkey hunting. The perceptive nature of this talk is infused with advice on mastering the rights calls, reading the behavior of the wild turkey, and learning the essence of subtlety and timing. Jake's account of his thrilling wild encounters exemplifies the adrenaline-packed adventure that is turkey hunting.
Our host also highlights his ventures in fishing and how the military provided opportunities for numerous experiences as he and Jake share how blessed to have these opportunities in the outdoors both hunting and fishing. Jake advocates for retaining a healthy balance, using his passion for the great outdoors to combat life pressures.
The podcast concludes on a promising note, with an invitation to the "ArmyBassAnglers Force on Force" Season 13 premiere and a sneak-peek into the upcoming podcast episode spotlighting the military child's perspective on hunting and fishing.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Force on Force features the largest and strongest outdoor military organization in the country.
These are the men and women who make it possible to enjoy the freedom to hunt and fish.
It is with great pride that we bring you Force on Force podcast,
coming to you from the Force on Force Talk.
Hey, welcome to the Force on Force Talk. We're having a lot of fun this year.
(00:21):
It's been a great journey.
I'm your host, Sean Darple. We're here in the Force on Force Talk,
the Tactical Operations Center.
All our shows start in the Tactical Operations Center and all military operations
start in the Tactical Operations Center.
This week, I got an exciting guest. He knows a lot about TAC operations.
Jake Whiteside from Chiefs Custom Calls.
He's been quite a few, like me, over his military career, been a lot of talks downrange.
(00:47):
So we know a lot about the TAC, but this is kind of a fun.
Cool opportunity that we have to sit and talk with
some stuff that we we want to kind of discuss but before we
get into it a lot of things going on with us here at re bass liners
buck hunters duck hunters hawk hunters and redfish this week
is season 13 premiere of
army bass language force on force which is our really been a bread and butter
(01:09):
what started this whole thing and we're pretty excited on the sportsman's channel
so it's gonna air at 10 30 on wednesday morning eastern time and then you message
you can catch it 11 a.m on saturday so So a lot of fun, really looking excited for this one.
It's going to be really cool. We talked a little bit at the classic about what
this season's kind of entails going outside the state of Texas for the first
(01:30):
time to Florida and some of the cool stories are going to come out of the military
moments for that season.
So a lot of that going on really close to announcing a new sponsor next week.
Hopefully we'll have all the stuff done on that on the hunting side.
So we're super excited about that. We kind of teased a little bit about that coming out of ATA show.
Show so just finalizing detail on that so it's
(01:52):
been a good good week busy but everybody knows
it's springtime and a lot of bass fishing going on
spring spawning going on around the country
and that's you know normally what
a lot of people talk about but there's also a big part of the country that gets
excited about this time of year because it's turkey season i'm trying to get
(02:12):
everything done this week so i can head up maybe thursday and friday and head
down to alabama and chase some turkeys around before the season opens up a week
or two later here in Kentucky.
And that's why I thought it'd be great to bring on Jake Whiteside. So, Jake, how you doing?
Man, I'm great, and I'm really excited to be on the show, so thanks for having me.
Man, it's a lot of fun. So, a little bit about Jake. Jake makes our calls,
(02:35):
whether it's our turkey calls or duck calls. I think one of his most.
Underrated calls he makes is his grunt calls i mean i talked to him all the time i mean,
i've had a lot of success with him on the deer side but he
he does it such a great i know he has a passion for turkey hunting
but more than that i i think one of the cool stories i
tell about jake when people come by the
(02:57):
booth asking about hey who makes your calls i'm like well jake whiteside he's
a black hawk pilot and i said he's a full bird colonel and i and just my my
visualization to kind of explain he's not like your most guys that we think
about you know always got this analytical you know he and I've been around the
army guy sitting at night reading.
Clausewitz on war documentary 600 page
(03:20):
book no Jake's in the basement turning calls or learning how
to be a better call maker doing those kind of
things and I think that's what kind of makes it special and I
think that's what's really cool about the military anyways you meet everybody
everybody from different skill sets to all walks of
life and so that's kind of when i i visualized jake
down there and i'm turning calls and i
(03:41):
tell that story to a lot of people that come by the booth so uh glad to have
you and i know you and i've come from a lot of the same parts of the country
and and i know it's a passion of yours so you know kind of take us through you
know how it is that you got into to to the chief's custom calls and and where
your passion's at and all how all that kind of started.
(04:01):
Yeah, well, so you hit the nail on the head. You're right. You know,
when I'm off work and I'm not doing what I need to do as a husband or a father,
which they keep me pretty busy, I'm in the shop and I'm trying to turn calls
and it's an incredible release for me.
So I joined the Army over 20 years ago and I started out as a Kiowa pilot,
just as a point of clarity for anyone who's wondering, like I'm a,
(04:24):
I'm a Kiowa pilot in remission, turned Blackhawk pilot so I've been both a meat
eater and a plant eater and I say that jokingly for all the all the aviators
out there but you know after 20 years Sean and you and I talked about this when
we were together in Texas.
This life can be incredibly stressful, and it's not just relative to the military,
though. We have a unique level of stress that we experience.
(04:46):
And you and I probably, we process that hunting at first or fishing at first
or whatever it was that kind of got you back to center.
And I'm going to be honest with you, man. The guys that just read Clausewitz,
as you said, they always seemed really boring to me. Like, I'm not saying that
there's not room for them.
(05:06):
And it's incredibly important to just be an absolute master of your craft.
But I think you got to diversify enough to kind of get back to who you are and
have something that is an expression of something else.
And it allows you to just kind of flush a little bit of the drama,
whatever that drama is in your life and kind of get back to center.
(05:27):
And then you can go back out. And I think people benefit from you being your best you. you.
So having said all that, I started making calls really because I was a hunter
and I was, I was taking people hunting.
I was taking my XO hunting when I was a battalion commander and my three and
heck I would take my kid hunting.
And I spent so much time in the woods, much like yourself that you look at your
kit and you go, man, this call is ugly.
(05:48):
Like, well, I've, I've been toting this around for so many years. I can do better.
Well, that's incredibly arrogant. Cause the first call I made was 10 times worse
than the one that I wanted to improve upon.
But But like everything we've done in the military, if you're an aviator,
if you're an infantryman, if you're a signal officer, if you're an intelligence
officer, you do it wrong one time and you're like, oh, no, no,
(06:08):
no, no, that's not how it's going to be.
And you just become obsessed, just like you were and winning multiple championships as a bass fisherman.
I became obsessed with, I want to make the very best call that I can because, uh,
I want on your slowest day in the blind or your slowest day in the turkey woods
on the slowest day to look down, at least have a good call. Look at me like,
(06:29):
man, that is exactly what I wanted.
Made exactly the way I wanted it. And I'll pass this down to my son or daughter or, or grandkids.
So that's how I got into it. And it's just become a passion of mine.
Of course, started with turkey and then
went went duck and of course deer
and i'm with you i i like my grunt call i think
(06:50):
it's i think it's subtle and unique but at the same time like i don't people
ask me all the time like what's your favorite thing to make and i'm probably
like you sean the moment fishing season's over my favorite thing to do is deer
season the moment deer season's over my favorite thing to do is well duck season
or turkey season so the moment i'm done with duck season.
The only time you see me make a duck call is because somebody wants a duck call.
(07:12):
But then I'm focused on turkey, too. And I'm kind of getting ready for the incoming season.
So, yeah, I really love it.
And I think that that was my encouragement to others when I was in command,
when I was out of command, when I was in the war college.
Which I'll add that Audible, you know, you could listen to the Bluetooth.
I listened to multiple books on tape while turning calls just to try to digest the information.
(07:34):
But in the war college telling friends you
know this story that i'm telling you and encouraging them like
look dude if you get recharged in the outdoors let me help be a part
of that you ain't gonna buy a call from me i want to take you hunting but if
you don't get recharged by that if you get recharged by playing chess or you
know god forbid reading klaus schwitz then you got to do that you got to do
something because i kind of look at call making in the outdoors or whatever
(07:57):
it is i look at what you and i do sean is it's almost like social ministry man
you're helping helping people,
you know, kind of get back to home base.
That little wordy, but that's, it's my passion. You know that I love it.
So, yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
Just for the listeners out there, when Jake and I refer to Clausewitz,
just to give you guys kind of frame of reference, it's a 600 page book that
(08:20):
when you go to Command and General Staff College, they introduce you to.
And if you've never watched the movie Crimson Tide, that's when Gene Hackman
refers to Denzel at Washington, he refers to him as young Clausewitz,
which is the German military strategist who started Napoleon.
And so you read this book and so it's always a big joke with me about it,
(08:41):
having that frame of reference.
You know, you got to find something. I was the same way. Find something to do outside of what you do.
The funniest story I ever had was not for me personally, but when the G3 of
the 101st Airborne Division, he was a big hunter, fisherman,
duck hunter, and he was in battalion command.
(09:01):
He had a lieutenant mess up a raid and he asked him, he said,
he said, son, what do you do for, what do you do for fun?
You know, and he said, I like to run and work out.
And he said no no that's what we do for our
job he's like what do you do for he said and
and i know this is true because i asked a couple
(09:21):
people the couple people that were his xo and everything he goes yeah this conversation
really happened he said he told him he said he said he said i like to fish and
hunt he said he said for one if you fished and hunt you'd be able to practice
your craft in the off time and you'd be more relaxed when you're out there doing
it and you know i I think there's a lot to that, what we do.
(09:41):
I got asked a long time ago, and I was a company commander that my guys used
to ask me, they were like, hey, sir, how did you learn how to do this?
And I'd be like, to me, it's just like rabbit hunt with my grandpa.
And that's, I've taken a lot from that to being a military officer and vice versa.
And then being in the outdoors is such a great way to stay balanced in what
(10:04):
you do. And I think, you know, your calls are pretty, pretty awesome.
They're really cool. I know I'm I love you.
Selling them and i love i love the grunt calls i ain't
gonna lie to the listeners i i can't use a duck call to save
my life that's one of those things that i'm going to try
to work on this year learn how to call duck jake actually
(10:25):
has a really good tutorial on our force on
force tv website on how to how to call that call that
duck out there and so but like we
actually have a deer that we're going to show that
i killed one of my target bucks this year on a tv show
that if it one for Jake's calls that we had him
coming on a string in the middle of the rut in Alabama and
(10:46):
so what I really like is unlike I said
a little bit ago but your grunt calls is because it's a lot more subtle a lot
more natural to what I'm used to hearing whitetail deer in the woods and I think
that's what really makes a difference and I actually have two of them because
they're custom they have a different tone to them and so it sounds like two
different deer in the woods And so I think that's really cool.
(11:07):
But I know your passion is really turkey hunting.
And I know that's where you got to start. And so we're getting ready.
Turkey season's kicking off. How does that play into from a turkey side of the house?
Us so you and i were talking and the family
is getting ready to move we're moving down to alabama living
in northern virginia right now and here's a
(11:29):
funny story so wife got up
for work my wife's a personal trainer most people are trying to
you know get in shape early hours of
the morning or late in the evening and so my wife gets up at probably 4 15 to
be at the gym at 5 to train folks and she gets up 4 15 and i'm already downstairs
and she's like you working on like like packing I was like no turkey season's
(11:52):
in a week and I got this new rib mount site for my 410.
And I knew that I had to get up early and get it done so I could get all the
other things done for the move and I could I could get my workout in I had to
get up so I'm up in the wee hours of the morning and I'm like I'm gonna get
up early and get it done so I can get all the other things
Trying to mount that. I got a 410 over and under that I had Cerakoted, and then I had it dipped.
(12:14):
So it's a beautiful camouflage dip. It's got Chief Custom Calls on the side
of it, a bronze Cerakote.
And so I got this nice laser point sight on it. So I was mounting that this
morning in anticipation for turkey season.
Some folks have already gotten started. I know South Carolina is already in the game.
I know that Florida, Georgia, Alabama is in. I think they came in last week.
(12:38):
So, you know, as far as what I'm looking forward to, I'm my my plan right now
is I got to go down to Alabama for a school.
And then when I get back here, I'm going to take a few days of leave and I'm
going to hit South Carolina and North Carolina in succession.
South Carolina will be kind of getting a little bit close to the indices,
but North Carolina will just be opening up South Carolina, North Carolina.
(13:00):
And then if I can squeeze it in I'm going to try a couple birds on public land
in Virginia I'm going to try like I can't guarantee any of that but you know
number one rule is if you can put them to bed you know you got a shot at their
head the next day so you know if you can roast one if,
but if you're like me and you're a weekend warrior and you don't always have
(13:22):
the luxury you don't have the land and you got to get it you know get in there
early like Like, dear, sometimes you can tell yourself rational lies.
And well, it's light enough where I can see some movement. So,
you know, and you just convince yourself, no, I'm not late.
Bubba, if the sun's already up, you're late when it comes to turkey hunting.
You need to be in there in the dark.
(13:43):
And it's a great example, security slash listening halt for all those who ever
did a patrol in their life.
You better get in the woods. You better stop, look, listen, smell,
do your sill, sit down, get situated, get quiet.
If you know where you need to be, otherwise, just kind of wait for that first owl to talk.
You know, I've made locator calls over the years and they've worked to great success.
(14:05):
But, you know, if you're in a bind, sometimes Mother Nature will throw you a
bone and an owl or a bird will start talking or the turkeys will get worked
up on their own. So it's important just to kind of listen.
And for all the artillerymen or every last one of us, really make sure you got your hearing aids on.
So you can locate things. And I'll tell you the other thing.
(14:27):
There's a lot of calls that you can get right or wrong.
But it's true of all calls. so you talk about you can't blow a duck call
and first of all i don't think you should judge yourself like that
because i'm a good i'm a good old-fashioned southern
baptist boy myself but every one
of us probably heard this at one point or another i'll just make a joyful noise
you know like you can't say if you are duck hunting and you can if you can muster
(14:52):
a decent quack you're a quack and similarly if you're turkey hunting and you
can get a decent yelp or just Just a subtle cluck. It don't take much to get a time worked up.
He's in the mood. He's wanting to find her anyway. He's wanting her to find him.
So if you can get him to talk to you, your next best call is to shut up.
Same thing with anything else, right? So like.
(15:14):
I just, I tell people all the time, like, you should have a call.
It's like any other tool.
And yeah, you may not be perfect at it, but you know, not everybody's a sniper,
but you should be able to shoot a deer with a rifle or call a duck with a basic
quack and same thing with a turkey.
So anyway, my food for thought is be early to be early as to be on time and
then just be subtle with it.
And I think you'll have a lot more success than if you, you know,
(15:38):
running gun and is higher risk, much more opportunity for, for error.
So so i tell the listeners my nemesis
is turkeys that's been you know i've
been close the last couple years and they've just i've
had some great you know opportunities calling
them in and then and you think
(16:00):
is that part about shut up and listen sometimes
i don't follow that quite as well as i should i
mean my favorite one is i had
one come all the way down on got within within 20 yards of me never knew
he was even there and i'm like there ain't nothing here and
i stood up and that sucker stood up and i took off and
i was like i was like i couldn't even believe it man
(16:21):
i was like i'm like so there's a lot of truth to that so that's why and then
last year we had we had so much it was a bad year with the wind that we had
a lot of wind storms and a lot of lost a lot of trees on my property here in
kentucky which i think hindered a lot of the roosting years that they had.
And so, you know, I think it's going to be a lot better this year.
(16:43):
So I'm looking forward to it. But we had...
A property down in Alabama, we've had a lot of turkeys on the Wise Eye Trail
cameras down there this year.
And so it's going to be pretty cool down there because we've done a lot of coyote
management to kind of help the turkey population.
So I'm excited to get down there and to get going because I think it's – I just
(17:05):
haven't – when I say the duck calls, it's one of those things where I hadn't
kind of put time and effort into it.
Like with a turkey call, I didn't know how to do it either.
And it's like you said i just took a little bit of time to
put some effort into it to figure it out and even figured
you know i could even you know put a mouth call in on a turkey and
do it now but you just saw about what you
take your time to do with and it's one of those things that
(17:27):
hasn't been a priority to me and i'm eventually going to
get there and do that and and go forward because i think it's a
lot of fun man just spending so much time in outdoors and from
one season to the the next season you know we it's
it's there's just so many things you can
do like we just got through filming a new hog hunters
tv show which i mean it's going
(17:48):
to be pretty uh pretty intense you when
you see it jake you'll be like man that reminds me so
much of what i've seen down range i mean it's just off
the charts we've got thermal drone coverage you and
i've talked a little bit about this like we even had to deal with weather
and you know being an aviation guy that weather can
be like always has a boat and everything that
(18:11):
goes on down range is you know so
when we're you know i think that's what's cool like with.
What we do with so many different our brands that we're either
fishing or hunting something out there you know and i
think that's that release that you're kind of talking about and and
i'm excited for this turkey season because i i've really kind of decided that
that's what i'm going to kind of focus on this spring you know we filmed our
(18:35):
fishing show early and got all our expos kind of out of the way so i got kind
of my april and first part of may kind of opened up to to.
Go after chase and chase some gobblers and i'm excited
about that so that's that's really really been
my i mean my i mean i it's not like i hadn't seen i
i have i have plenty of turkeys running around me
(18:57):
during deer season it's like they taught me they know you know come springtime
it's just a it's obviously a different ball game it's you know it's i mean i
can for comparison's sake it'd be a little bit a little bit different but it's
the rut and so they're wanting to mate They're wanting to, you know,
they're wanting to get together.
(19:17):
They're not as fired up, though. I've certainly heard Tom's gobble when I was stationed in Kansas.
I remember open day of rifle season. I was set up in a bottom on the range at
Fort Riley, and I heard a gun go off and two Tom's gobbled next to him. He shot gobbled.
You know, they didn't know. It was just like Thunder will get a Tom gobbling.
But, yeah, I think it's incredibly exciting, especially if you,
(19:41):
you know, you're just wanting to finally close the deal.
My youngest son, bless his heart. He's been hunting with me a long time.
And I don't think anybody's had as many cool experiences with a turkey as he's
had. And he's never, he's never pulled the trigger.
And one of the greatest hunts of our, of my life, Sean, was with this kid who
(20:02):
like my son and I go out and, and we scout this place.
We're looking through binoculars. We're looking on this field. This is in Kansas.
And there was at least four strutting toms and just a metric buttload of hens all over this field.
And we watched them as the sun
went down. We're just quietly watching them from the front of the truck.
Like it's enough to where you can see underneath the trees and it kind of flowed
(20:22):
down. You can see the green patch and you can just see them.
And, uh, we watched them fly up, man. Tom's were gobbling. And,
uh, for those who are not as familiar in the evenings, the time will fly up typically first.
His will be shortly there to follow, but he'll start gobbling.
If he's gobbling his brains out in the evening, in the evening,
like as it's starting to get dark, he's on a limb and he's calling the ladies to roost.
(20:42):
He's like making sure that his, his females are with him.
It doesn't always work that way. They're not all sitting on the same limb,
but they're in the same group of trees or whatever. ever.
And then as they wake up in the morning, if you've had the opportunity to roost
them, you don't want to like sit up right underneath them with a headlamp in the dark.
Don't do that. But okay. They were in this field yesterday.
They generally want to strut in this place. Why do they want to strut?
(21:03):
They want to show off their feathers.
If it's been raining or it's damp or it's cool, they want a sun and warm up.
They may want to dust and they're all going to eat.
And while they're eating, they're going to put on a show for the ladies because
it's an opportunity soon as a mate.
So if you can get to a place where you're, okay, I know they flew up there,
or I know the hens tend to congregate here, or I know that I see strutters here
(21:23):
in the morning or in the afternoons, then set up in a way that you think you
can get there without being too obtrusive on their bedroom.
And then a couple rules of thumb. If the hens are talking a lot on the roost
and the toms start gobbling and you can see all that happening,
watch the show for a second.
But as the hens will start to do a fly down cackle, there's a couple of things you can can do.
You can start going berserk on your call because you want to get that hen thinking
(21:46):
that she's got other hens that she's competing with.
If you're camouflaged enough to where you can hear that time,
but you can't see them, you can.
With your hat. I don't know if you can hear that over the phone,
but you can flap down if you don't have a turkey wing and you can.
Sounds just like a turkey coming down. Yeah. And you can do your, you can do that.
Just anything to try to convince whoever's out in that field or where you saw them roost.
(22:10):
Hey, there's some legitimate lady activity going on over here. Right. Right.
Now here's the other thing that you got to know is bucks chase does in the deer
world. Hens come to Tom's.
And the reason the time gets fired up and the reason he comes chasing and a
lot of times you beat up on a decoy or whatever is he's worked up because she
(22:33):
disobeyed the natural order in his world i gobble i'm the one that's showing
you're supposed to come to me,
and so in an ideal situation you're the only hand he's really looking for and
he comes looking for you and he's searching he's searching you had him all the
path in the worst case scenario he runs runs into a real live hand between your cold and his gobble.
(22:56):
And then you really Sean, and we've all been there. You gotta,
you gotta play a risk game of, you gotta get super aggressive and you gotta
convince that hen that now she's got competition and they'll like, he's dumb dude.
Now he's ticked off and you've got to convince him he's competing.
And so is she. So I've been exactly where you are, but dude,
my son, we, we did it. We went to this field.
(23:18):
We watched all these things go up. We get down in this little thicket.
We knew where all these birds were, and sure as heck, sun comes up,
they're gobbling, hens are going crazy.
We start calling. Everybody's flying down. I'm matching the hands.
They're going. The toms are coming.
And the next thing you know, I don't know if you've ever heard a drum,
but behind us, a tom came over.
And I don't know how to – I can't mimic a drum. I was like – and they just –
(23:43):
they are drumming that diaphragm in their body.
You see their chest almost vibrating when they do it. Yeah. And this tom was behind me.
And I'm frozen. It's youth season. I don't even have a gun. My son's got his gun.
He pointed out at this field i'm not exaggerating and so he's pointing out this field and there's,
people can't see me but he's got like a fork a tree like in between like two
(24:06):
little saplings but like i don't know why he did that but in the morning he
set his gun up right between his fork,
and he was dead on accurate at those two toms that were way out in the field
but this time walked by us i swear to you man he could have stepped on my toes.
And i was like the gun swing the
gun and he couldn't swing the gun i looked over i was like like oh no he can't
(24:26):
but he got i mean this thing was shaking our chest drumming and he goes out
in the field and they get to fighting unfortunately they're fighting out of
range but he got to see that at the age of like 11 years old and he's had multiple
experiences where he's seen all sorts of,
great performance so i say like they don't get disheartened sometimes you go
a long time but still there's hunters that'll hunt their whole life without
(24:49):
having a turkey i'm literally drumming and walking on top of him because he's
so focused on those other toms.
So anyway, I get long-winded. Man, turkey hunting is my passion. It's where I started.
And I joke all the time. I prefer to always be able to hunt what I want.
But if I couldn't hunt anything else.
I would hunt turkey. If you're like Jake, you only get to hunt one thing the
(25:09):
rest of your life, I'd hunt turkey. It's the most interactive.
It's the most challenging, in my opinion, and the most rewarding.
I think, put it for people that don't hunt turkey, I think the best way to put
it is it's like the rut for whitetail on steroids.
Because you know that's that's what
i kind of equate it to because you know
(25:31):
you can hunt whitetail all season long but it's
nothing like those that time during a rut when those
when those bucks are chasing the does and you can re you
can rattle when you rattle a buck in i mean when you're out
there the times that i've had those encounters you know
i've had a couple of awesome kind of what you described encounters
with some turkeys and it's been really really cool during and
(25:52):
turkey season just to be in that encounter situation because
your heart rate gets to go in and i think that's it's that
adrenaline rush that just that encounter that's that
kind of drives you to come back because it's so
up up close and personal with those turkey that are out there and that's why
i see why so many people get addicted to it in the springtime i know i got i
(26:13):
got friends they'll tell me they'll be like people like i wouldn't they'll they'll
tell you they're like just let me go with you they like i just love to call
them and they're gonna like i I don't even,
they're just like, I just want to go call them and watch, and watch you shoot
because they just enjoy that part of it that much.
Yeah. There's a, there's an incredibly reward, rewarding aspect of it.
(26:33):
And don't get me wrong. Shooting a bird is challenging in itself.
You can ask any Turkey hunter, if they've done it long enough,
they've missed and it doesn't even make sense. But yeah.
But calling one in convincing the Tom that like you're what he's looking for
and, and knowing when to kind of get heavy on the call.
And then frankly, no one to put that daggum call down.
And that's really the art of it. You got a seal deal. And again,
(26:58):
we've all missed, but you to get him within range, even take the shot.
I think that's why you got friends. I'm like, now I just want to call.
I just want to prove to myself that I can bring them in.
And it's so much fun to do it. And that's why I love guiding Turkey.
Uh, And, uh, I've taken a lot of folks and gotten them their first bird.
I've also taken a lot of folks and we've made a lot of mistakes.
So I can tell you volume one, the early years I had to screw up a turkey hunt.
(27:22):
I've done it, but, but it's so much fun.
You know, I went bow hunting for elk years ago, killed a nice bull elk.
And I tell people all the time, elk hunting ain't nothing but,
you know, 800 pound turkey.
They're, they just respond. White-tailed deer, you and I both know,
man, they're a wary creature, and rightfully so.
(27:42):
They've got plenty of things that are out to get them in this world,
but they're not a very vocal creature.
If at the right time, you know when to rattle. You know, okay,
there's a dominant buck in here. I know he's teed up.
I know that if I rattle, he's going to be the dude that's challenged and thinks
the other guys are fighting for either property or ladies.
Okay, I'll do it. or it's just that right time maybe
you hear a snort wheeze or a grunt and you kind of reciprocate or
(28:04):
you see some chasing and you're just trying to get on the action but otherwise
white-tailed deer are really quiet yeah but deer
or excuse me elk and turkey they're such
vocal creatures and so it's so interactive and that's
what i love about it is because you are not only trying
to find your prey but you're playing a game of
you're trying to fool them into like oh that's who i want
(28:27):
want to talk to and you can do it wrong you know and i
can't remember the first time i ever went turkey hunting a good friend
of mine handed me a pot call this has been 20 years ago
good friend of mine handed me a pot call and i started to work on this thing
and he looked at me through his face mask and he made some eye contact and shook
his head took it from me and uh but that was my that was my clue to be like
(28:49):
hey man this is just you don't just go out here and freaking and yeah destroy
this call you got to know something but that's the practice you know that's.
It's all about practice trying to trying to get it
right and i think but that's like i say at any time i
go hunting or go fishing i'm always learning something i'm
always trying to figure something different because what
(29:09):
everybody asks us like it's whether it's
hunting or fishing it's never the actual catching your
fish or taking of the animal it's the the chase
of the process it's the process that you go through it's
the unlocking the puzzle all those pieces that you you
put together and you when you when you finally put
that puzzle together it that's what kind of intrigues you
(29:31):
and that's what makes you you know that what
you originally started when we talked about this was that well balanced brings
you back kind of center it relieves that stress that
you kind of you know look for in life
is is that that whole sense of
everything that you've kind of figured out that you
know it's a puzzle is the best way to describe it.
(29:53):
It's it's a puzzle and you put it all together and sometimes
you don't and some you know and and and then you
you learn like man i did this and i shouldn't have
done that or i did do this and i should do this but you
take that and you put it you put it you follow it away for
the next time you go about and you're like i was
in that situation before so don't do this and
(30:13):
don't do that you know so you learn from each and every single
one of those those deals to kind of help it go forward
and and make it a better hunter fishing experience the next
time yeah i mean turkey's got some comparison bass fishing i am not the best
fisherman you are i don't think that ever will be i do my best fishing on a
pond i know he's got bass in it you know on a farm or something not where you
(30:36):
guys are really trying to really trying to find the fish dial in on before you.
Start catching things but i'll tell you the same
way that you've got like a whole bag of tricks yeah and
i've gone fishing with a couple of folks from from your
team and i was wowed by how many
rods they had in their boat and how many setups they
(30:56):
had and they were presented the the speed and the rate at which they were presenting
different things and that doesn't that's not a direct translation but but for
turkey as an example there'd be times that you're like man you're not saying
anything for this plate and i'll pull out like a copper call or a titanium call
or Slate call, glass call, crystal, you name it.
Like, we all kind of get to where we have a few things in heavy rotation.
(31:19):
But it's like, if they ain't biting the Carolina rig, then, you know,
I'll go to a crankbait or I'll go to a rattle trap or whatever.
And it's the same thing with turkey. And that's what's fun. Like you said,
knowing what tool I got to use and knowing, like, okay.
Circumstances environment situations different i can adapt and
that's incredibly rewarding too and you learn a lot
you learn oh wait a minute wait a minute that's too loud and that's
(31:42):
and and different parts of the country do
you you have to do different things but that's the other key
piece i think i take for granted i don't know about you but
i kind of take for granted being in the military has allowed
me to go to a lot of different places to fish and hunt to
be exposed to a lot of different environments for
fishing hunting and what you realize doing that not
(32:04):
turkey deer bass you name
it they don't all respond the exact same way
and is that in different parts of kind of now they all have some
of the same tendencies but you learn
that you know a fish in
in highland reservoir in north carolina relates to
structure differently than the tendency all these things that you
(32:26):
kind of learn and so that's what i think is really cool that that i
think from from our perspective of being in the military for as
long as we get and getting you get the part
of being away just having to move all the time always i never
that's never a fun part but the part that i do take away
from that is is all the experience that i've got to experience in
different environments to hunt and fish in and
(32:47):
i don't i don't think we i haven't kind of told that.
Story enough and from a personal perspective
because i always say this i look at people they
they grow up and they hunt the same places they fish the same places
and they don't know any different where you and i've had to adapt in so many
different types of environments across the country and it really makes you a
better outdoorsman along the way yeah i've killed nice deer uh in kansas my
(33:13):
biggest deer ever is in missouri all because of military travel travel.
And in Georgia, but probably the proudest I am of any deer was just like you
said, I got transplanted.
I taught briefly at the United States military Academy.
And while I was there, you know, I was transplanted in New York and I was like,
man, want to get a nice deer with my bow.
(33:35):
And we were doing summer training and I saw this buck and he was,
uh, he was frankly a call for any other, uh, environment.
He's a big, and I know what people are thinking like, Cole is a basket six.
No, man, this dude's a huge six. I can send you
this this picture and you're like good lord like it's fork horns yeah enormous
and it carried mass all the way through but he was never
gonna be anything but a six pointer i saw him and this
(33:58):
guy that was next to me you know who lived in new york and worked on the range
there was like oh man i've been seeing that deer for years he's so ugly i'm
like that deer walks out in front of me during boasts i'm gonna smack him because
to me i was like if that deer is that old that this guy's I've been seeing him
for years and he was clearly old and velvet.
He looked good, but he's just big old fork horns and tall brow times.
(34:21):
And I was kind of funky looking. But anyway, I killed that deer.
And it's one of the proudest things because it was like, I'm a transplant.
New York is totally different than hunting the bottoms in Georgia.
Yeah, it's certainly different than hunting planes.
And some of these fingers and bottoms in Kansas, not the same agriculture,
not the same geography at all. So anyway, super proud to have done that in New
(34:44):
York. And like you said, it exposes you to so much.
That's one of the great things about the military is you get to meet the mom and pop places.
Like one of my favorite things to do after hunting any new place is to figure
out where the greasy spoon is.
And I ain't talking about waffle house. Figure out where the old timers are
sitting around, drink up coffee.
And they'll, they'll, they'll look at your side out a couple of times,
(35:04):
you know, but you just keep showing up, man, and ask them questions.
And I've met some really cool people.
It's not a hundred percent but occasionally over.
20 years you meet those dudes and the next
thing you know they ask you to come hunting with them it doesn't happen all the time and i
certainly wouldn't go in it with that motivation but yeah sean that
whole experience i'm grateful for the people talk
(35:26):
about all my military experience so frustrating yeah life's frustrating
but there's been some cool rewards with all the travel we've
done the people we've gotten to meet and like you said i've gotten
to travel and hunt in a lot of places i would have never seen had
it not been been from the military so yeah i agree with you on that on
that and that that's that's one of the coolest things
we kind of wrap that up i think i love i love
(35:48):
the ability to tell those stories that we've been around the
country and to the hunt and
fish some of the places that i never would
have traveled to do that i think that's pretty cool and and i
think you know it's one of those
stories that i think we as we tell more and and we
expose more of the people in the military to
(36:08):
give them an opportunity to share our love for the outdoors i think it'll
be we're doing them ability to get out
there and and find that balance and but not
just maybe it's not just from a military you know
from a fish and hunting perspective but to tell them that there's find something
that you enjoy to do that gives you that balance in your life because
i think that's important that we kind of talk about i know
(36:28):
there's been a lot of fun talking to you today i know we could probably talk a
whole hour hour and a half oh i knew this so it could be easy
with you and i because we could we could have a conversation and we
you're one you're the one of the easy ones that we have such a passion
for what we do and it's easy to kind of get out there you know.
So it's been a good deal we have a lot of stuff coming up this
week for us we're going to be at lake fork at the mega bass event.
(36:49):
And so we'll have our booth there and that's going to be a lot of fun and this
this month starts april and so one of the cool things in the month of april
and one of the cool things for the podcast that i want to talk things outside
of fishing and hunting we kind of hit on a little bit with jake and i today.
Is things that from things from
(37:10):
my career other people's career and how
we've kind of shaped from an outdoors perspective but month is the month of
april is the month of the military child so one thing that i kind of want to
do this month is later on in the month is we're probably gonna bring on probably
my boys who are big outdoorsmen to kind of talk from that perspective of being again,
(37:30):
a dependent of of.
Of the military and how that kind of falls into it. And I think that would be
kind of neat for the listeners to go forward and kind of talk that.
And so we're, we're going to do that show this month. And then we're going to
have some of our sponsors on this month to kind of talk about some of the cool things that go on.
So once again, I appreciate it, Jake, and I appreciate what you guys are doing.
(37:52):
So you guys know, cause I talked about my boys, Jake is actually going to make
a call for me to, to give to the high school football team.
Where my son plays football that i'm getting him to do up
that we're going to actually auction off for the
high school football team there and it's going to be a pretty awesome deal
that we do with jake and that i love what we
(38:13):
do with army bass english we we had
something that we did at toby the texas omen's bass
invitation we got something we're going to do at patriot sporting challenge but i
i say this because jake has some ties to clarksville tennessee
the home of the 101st airborne division and that
in the fall they do a an event where i
wanted to do something with my boys in conjunction and
(38:36):
so i thought what better way we got a lot of that close
to real foot and a lot of people on kentucky lake that duck hunt so jake is
working a real custom call for that so it'll be really cool to have that opportunity
to showcase some of his work around the fort Fort Campbell 101st Airborne Division
area, and we just really look forward to it.
(38:57):
So I appreciate it again, Jake, once again, having you on.
And if you guys want to know more about what we do at Army Bass,
Buck, Hog, or Duck, go to forceonforcetv.com and make sure you watch the season
13 premiere of Army Bass and the Force on Force. See you next week. Cool?
Thanks for listening to the Force on Force podcast. Join us next time as we
(39:18):
dive into more topics from the Force on Force talk. For more information or
to learn how to join the organization, visit our website at forceonforcetv.com.
Force on Force features the largest and strongest outdoor military organization in the country.
These are the men and women who make it possible to enjoy the freedom to hunt and fish.
It is with great pride that we bring you Force on Force podcast,
coming to you from the Force on Force Talk.
Hey, welcome to the Force on Force Talk. We're having a lot of fun this year.
(00:21):
It's been a great journey.
I'm your host, Sean Darple. We're here in the Force on Force Talk,
the Tactical Operations Center.
All our shows start in the Tactical Operations Center and all military operations
start in the Tactical Operations Center.
This week, I got an exciting guest. He knows a lot about TAC operations.
Jake Whiteside from Chiefs Custom Calls.
He's been quite a few, like me, over his military career, been a lot of talks downrange.
(00:47):
So we know a lot about the TAC, but this is kind of a fun.
Cool opportunity that we have to sit and talk with
some stuff that we we want to kind of discuss but before we
get into it a lot of things going on with us here at re bass liners
buck hunters duck hunters hawk hunters and redfish this week
is season 13 premiere of
army bass language force on force which is our really been a bread and butter
(01:09):
what started this whole thing and we're pretty excited on the sportsman's channel
so it's gonna air at 10 30 on wednesday morning eastern time and then you message
you can catch it 11 a.m on saturday so So a lot of fun, really looking excited for this one.
It's going to be really cool. We talked a little bit at the classic about what
this season's kind of entails going outside the state of Texas for the first
(01:30):
time to Florida and some of the cool stories are going to come out of the military
moments for that season.
So a lot of that going on really close to announcing a new sponsor next week.
Hopefully we'll have all the stuff done on that on the hunting side.
So we're super excited about that. We kind of teased a little bit about that coming out of ATA show.
Show so just finalizing detail on that so it's
(01:52):
been a good good week busy but everybody knows
it's springtime and a lot of bass fishing going on
spring spawning going on around the country
and that's you know normally what
a lot of people talk about but there's also a big part of the country that gets
excited about this time of year because it's turkey season i'm trying to get
(02:12):
everything done this week so i can head up maybe thursday and friday and head
down to alabama and chase some turkeys around before the season opens up a week
or two later here in Kentucky.
And that's why I thought it'd be great to bring on Jake Whiteside. So, Jake, how you doing?
Man, I'm great, and I'm really excited to be on the show, so thanks for having me.
Man, it's a lot of fun. So, a little bit about Jake. Jake makes our calls,
(02:35):
whether it's our turkey calls or duck calls. I think one of his most.
Underrated calls he makes is his grunt calls i mean i talked to him all the time i mean,
i've had a lot of success with him on the deer side but he
he does it such a great i know he has a passion for turkey hunting
but more than that i i think one of the cool stories i
tell about jake when people come by the
(02:57):
booth asking about hey who makes your calls i'm like well jake whiteside he's
a black hawk pilot and i said he's a full bird colonel and i and just my my
visualization to kind of explain he's not like your most guys that we think
about you know always got this analytical you know he and I've been around the
army guy sitting at night reading.
Clausewitz on war documentary 600 page
(03:20):
book no Jake's in the basement turning calls or learning how
to be a better call maker doing those kind of
things and I think that's what kind of makes it special and I
think that's what's really cool about the military anyways you meet everybody
everybody from different skill sets to all walks of
life and so that's kind of when i i visualized jake
down there and i'm turning calls and i
(03:41):
tell that story to a lot of people that come by the booth so uh glad to have
you and i know you and i've come from a lot of the same parts of the country
and and i know it's a passion of yours so you know kind of take us through you
know how it is that you got into to to the chief's custom calls and and where
your passion's at and all how all that kind of started.
(04:01):
Yeah, well, so you hit the nail on the head. You're right. You know,
when I'm off work and I'm not doing what I need to do as a husband or a father,
which they keep me pretty busy, I'm in the shop and I'm trying to turn calls
and it's an incredible release for me.
So I joined the Army over 20 years ago and I started out as a Kiowa pilot,
just as a point of clarity for anyone who's wondering, like I'm a,
(04:24):
I'm a Kiowa pilot in remission, turned Blackhawk pilot so I've been both a meat
eater and a plant eater and I say that jokingly for all the all the aviators
out there but you know after 20 years Sean and you and I talked about this when
we were together in Texas.
This life can be incredibly stressful, and it's not just relative to the military,
though. We have a unique level of stress that we experience.
(04:46):
And you and I probably, we process that hunting at first or fishing at first
or whatever it was that kind of got you back to center.
And I'm going to be honest with you, man. The guys that just read Clausewitz,
as you said, they always seemed really boring to me. Like, I'm not saying that
there's not room for them.
(05:06):
And it's incredibly important to just be an absolute master of your craft.
But I think you got to diversify enough to kind of get back to who you are and
have something that is an expression of something else.
And it allows you to just kind of flush a little bit of the drama,
whatever that drama is in your life and kind of get back to center.
(05:27):
And then you can go back out. And I think people benefit from you being your best you. you.
So having said all that, I started making calls really because I was a hunter
and I was, I was taking people hunting.
I was taking my XO hunting when I was a battalion commander and my three and
heck I would take my kid hunting.
And I spent so much time in the woods, much like yourself that you look at your
kit and you go, man, this call is ugly.
(05:48):
Like, well, I've, I've been toting this around for so many years. I can do better.
Well, that's incredibly arrogant. Cause the first call I made was 10 times worse
than the one that I wanted to improve upon.
But But like everything we've done in the military, if you're an aviator,
if you're an infantryman, if you're a signal officer, if you're an intelligence
officer, you do it wrong one time and you're like, oh, no, no,
(06:08):
no, no, that's not how it's going to be.
And you just become obsessed, just like you were and winning multiple championships as a bass fisherman.
I became obsessed with, I want to make the very best call that I can because, uh,
I want on your slowest day in the blind or your slowest day in the turkey woods
on the slowest day to look down, at least have a good call. Look at me like,
(06:29):
man, that is exactly what I wanted.
Made exactly the way I wanted it. And I'll pass this down to my son or daughter or, or grandkids.
So that's how I got into it. And it's just become a passion of mine.
Of course, started with turkey and then
went went duck and of course deer
and i'm with you i i like my grunt call i think
(06:50):
it's i think it's subtle and unique but at the same time like i don't people
ask me all the time like what's your favorite thing to make and i'm probably
like you sean the moment fishing season's over my favorite thing to do is deer
season the moment deer season's over my favorite thing to do is well duck season
or turkey season so the moment i'm done with duck season.
The only time you see me make a duck call is because somebody wants a duck call.
(07:12):
But then I'm focused on turkey, too. And I'm kind of getting ready for the incoming season.
So, yeah, I really love it.
And I think that that was my encouragement to others when I was in command,
when I was out of command, when I was in the war college.
Which I'll add that Audible, you know, you could listen to the Bluetooth.
I listened to multiple books on tape while turning calls just to try to digest the information.
(07:34):
But in the war college telling friends you
know this story that i'm telling you and encouraging them like
look dude if you get recharged in the outdoors let me help be a part
of that you ain't gonna buy a call from me i want to take you hunting but if
you don't get recharged by that if you get recharged by playing chess or you
know god forbid reading klaus schwitz then you got to do that you got to do
something because i kind of look at call making in the outdoors or whatever
(07:57):
it is i look at what you and i do sean is it's almost like social ministry man
you're helping helping people,
you know, kind of get back to home base.
That little wordy, but that's, it's my passion. You know that I love it.
So, yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head.
Just for the listeners out there, when Jake and I refer to Clausewitz,
just to give you guys kind of frame of reference, it's a 600 page book that
(08:20):
when you go to Command and General Staff College, they introduce you to.
And if you've never watched the movie Crimson Tide, that's when Gene Hackman
refers to Denzel at Washington, he refers to him as young Clausewitz,
which is the German military strategist who started Napoleon.
And so you read this book and so it's always a big joke with me about it,
(08:41):
having that frame of reference.
You know, you got to find something. I was the same way. Find something to do outside of what you do.
The funniest story I ever had was not for me personally, but when the G3 of
the 101st Airborne Division, he was a big hunter, fisherman,
duck hunter, and he was in battalion command.
(09:01):
He had a lieutenant mess up a raid and he asked him, he said,
he said, son, what do you do for, what do you do for fun?
You know, and he said, I like to run and work out.
And he said no no that's what we do for our
job he's like what do you do for he said and
and i know this is true because i asked a couple
(09:21):
people the couple people that were his xo and everything he goes yeah this conversation
really happened he said he told him he said he said he said i like to fish and
hunt he said he said for one if you fished and hunt you'd be able to practice
your craft in the off time and you'd be more relaxed when you're out there doing
it and you know i I think there's a lot to that, what we do.
(09:41):
I got asked a long time ago, and I was a company commander that my guys used
to ask me, they were like, hey, sir, how did you learn how to do this?
And I'd be like, to me, it's just like rabbit hunt with my grandpa.
And that's, I've taken a lot from that to being a military officer and vice versa.
And then being in the outdoors is such a great way to stay balanced in what
(10:04):
you do. And I think, you know, your calls are pretty, pretty awesome.
They're really cool. I know I'm I love you.
Selling them and i love i love the grunt calls i ain't
gonna lie to the listeners i i can't use a duck call to save
my life that's one of those things that i'm going to try
to work on this year learn how to call duck jake actually
(10:25):
has a really good tutorial on our force on
force tv website on how to how to call that call that
duck out there and so but like we
actually have a deer that we're going to show that
i killed one of my target bucks this year on a tv show
that if it one for Jake's calls that we had him
coming on a string in the middle of the rut in Alabama and
(10:46):
so what I really like is unlike I said
a little bit ago but your grunt calls is because it's a lot more subtle a lot
more natural to what I'm used to hearing whitetail deer in the woods and I think
that's what really makes a difference and I actually have two of them because
they're custom they have a different tone to them and so it sounds like two
different deer in the woods And so I think that's really cool.
(11:07):
But I know your passion is really turkey hunting.
And I know that's where you got to start. And so we're getting ready.
Turkey season's kicking off. How does that play into from a turkey side of the house?
Us so you and i were talking and the family
is getting ready to move we're moving down to alabama living
in northern virginia right now and here's a
(11:29):
funny story so wife got up
for work my wife's a personal trainer most people are trying to
you know get in shape early hours of
the morning or late in the evening and so my wife gets up at probably 4 15 to
be at the gym at 5 to train folks and she gets up 4 15 and i'm already downstairs
and she's like you working on like like packing I was like no turkey season's
(11:52):
in a week and I got this new rib mount site for my 410.
And I knew that I had to get up early and get it done so I could get all the
other things done for the move and I could I could get my workout in I had to
get up so I'm up in the wee hours of the morning and I'm like I'm gonna get
up early and get it done so I can get all the other things
Trying to mount that. I got a 410 over and under that I had Cerakoted, and then I had it dipped.
(12:14):
So it's a beautiful camouflage dip. It's got Chief Custom Calls on the side
of it, a bronze Cerakote.
And so I got this nice laser point sight on it. So I was mounting that this
morning in anticipation for turkey season.
Some folks have already gotten started. I know South Carolina is already in the game.
I know that Florida, Georgia, Alabama is in. I think they came in last week.
(12:38):
So, you know, as far as what I'm looking forward to, I'm my my plan right now
is I got to go down to Alabama for a school.
And then when I get back here, I'm going to take a few days of leave and I'm
going to hit South Carolina and North Carolina in succession.
South Carolina will be kind of getting a little bit close to the indices,
but North Carolina will just be opening up South Carolina, North Carolina.
(13:00):
And then if I can squeeze it in I'm going to try a couple birds on public land
in Virginia I'm going to try like I can't guarantee any of that but you know
number one rule is if you can put them to bed you know you got a shot at their
head the next day so you know if you can roast one if,
but if you're like me and you're a weekend warrior and you don't always have
(13:22):
the luxury you don't have the land and you got to get it you know get in there
early like Like, dear, sometimes you can tell yourself rational lies.
And well, it's light enough where I can see some movement. So,
you know, and you just convince yourself, no, I'm not late.
Bubba, if the sun's already up, you're late when it comes to turkey hunting.
You need to be in there in the dark.
(13:43):
And it's a great example, security slash listening halt for all those who ever
did a patrol in their life.
You better get in the woods. You better stop, look, listen, smell,
do your sill, sit down, get situated, get quiet.
If you know where you need to be, otherwise, just kind of wait for that first owl to talk.
You know, I've made locator calls over the years and they've worked to great success.
(14:05):
But, you know, if you're in a bind, sometimes Mother Nature will throw you a
bone and an owl or a bird will start talking or the turkeys will get worked
up on their own. So it's important just to kind of listen.
And for all the artillerymen or every last one of us, really make sure you got your hearing aids on.
So you can locate things. And I'll tell you the other thing.
(14:27):
There's a lot of calls that you can get right or wrong.
But it's true of all calls. so you talk about you can't blow a duck call
and first of all i don't think you should judge yourself like that
because i'm a good i'm a good old-fashioned southern
baptist boy myself but every one
of us probably heard this at one point or another i'll just make a joyful noise
you know like you can't say if you are duck hunting and you can if you can muster
(14:52):
a decent quack you're a quack and similarly if you're turkey hunting and you
can get a decent yelp or just Just a subtle cluck. It don't take much to get a time worked up.
He's in the mood. He's wanting to find her anyway. He's wanting her to find him.
So if you can get him to talk to you, your next best call is to shut up.
Same thing with anything else, right? So like.
(15:14):
I just, I tell people all the time, like, you should have a call.
It's like any other tool.
And yeah, you may not be perfect at it, but you know, not everybody's a sniper,
but you should be able to shoot a deer with a rifle or call a duck with a basic
quack and same thing with a turkey.
So anyway, my food for thought is be early to be early as to be on time and
then just be subtle with it.
And I think you'll have a lot more success than if you, you know,
(15:38):
running gun and is higher risk, much more opportunity for, for error.
So so i tell the listeners my nemesis
is turkeys that's been you know i've
been close the last couple years and they've just i've
had some great you know opportunities calling
them in and then and you think
(16:00):
is that part about shut up and listen sometimes
i don't follow that quite as well as i should i
mean my favorite one is i had
one come all the way down on got within within 20 yards of me never knew
he was even there and i'm like there ain't nothing here and
i stood up and that sucker stood up and i took off and
i was like i was like i couldn't even believe it man
(16:21):
i was like i'm like so there's a lot of truth to that so that's why and then
last year we had we had so much it was a bad year with the wind that we had
a lot of wind storms and a lot of lost a lot of trees on my property here in
kentucky which i think hindered a lot of the roosting years that they had.
And so, you know, I think it's going to be a lot better this year.
(16:43):
So I'm looking forward to it. But we had...
A property down in Alabama, we've had a lot of turkeys on the Wise Eye Trail
cameras down there this year.
And so it's going to be pretty cool down there because we've done a lot of coyote
management to kind of help the turkey population.
So I'm excited to get down there and to get going because I think it's – I just
(17:05):
haven't – when I say the duck calls, it's one of those things where I hadn't
kind of put time and effort into it.
Like with a turkey call, I didn't know how to do it either.
And it's like you said i just took a little bit of time to
put some effort into it to figure it out and even figured
you know i could even you know put a mouth call in on a turkey and
do it now but you just saw about what you
take your time to do with and it's one of those things that
(17:27):
hasn't been a priority to me and i'm eventually going to
get there and do that and and go forward because i think it's a
lot of fun man just spending so much time in outdoors and from
one season to the the next season you know we it's
it's there's just so many things you can
do like we just got through filming a new hog hunters
tv show which i mean it's going
(17:48):
to be pretty uh pretty intense you when
you see it jake you'll be like man that reminds me so
much of what i've seen down range i mean it's just off
the charts we've got thermal drone coverage you and
i've talked a little bit about this like we even had to deal with weather
and you know being an aviation guy that weather can
be like always has a boat and everything that
(18:11):
goes on down range is you know so
when we're you know i think that's what's cool like with.
What we do with so many different our brands that we're either
fishing or hunting something out there you know and i
think that's that release that you're kind of talking about and and
i'm excited for this turkey season because i i've really kind of decided that
that's what i'm going to kind of focus on this spring you know we filmed our
(18:35):
fishing show early and got all our expos kind of out of the way so i got kind
of my april and first part of may kind of opened up to to.
Go after chase and chase some gobblers and i'm excited
about that so that's that's really really been
my i mean my i mean i it's not like i hadn't seen i
i have i have plenty of turkeys running around me
(18:57):
during deer season it's like they taught me they know you know come springtime
it's just a it's obviously a different ball game it's you know it's i mean i
can for comparison's sake it'd be a little bit a little bit different but it's
the rut and so they're wanting to mate They're wanting to, you know,
they're wanting to get together.
(19:17):
They're not as fired up, though. I've certainly heard Tom's gobble when I was stationed in Kansas.
I remember open day of rifle season. I was set up in a bottom on the range at
Fort Riley, and I heard a gun go off and two Tom's gobbled next to him. He shot gobbled.
You know, they didn't know. It was just like Thunder will get a Tom gobbling.
But, yeah, I think it's incredibly exciting, especially if you,
(19:41):
you know, you're just wanting to finally close the deal.
My youngest son, bless his heart. He's been hunting with me a long time.
And I don't think anybody's had as many cool experiences with a turkey as he's
had. And he's never, he's never pulled the trigger.
And one of the greatest hunts of our, of my life, Sean, was with this kid who
(20:02):
like my son and I go out and, and we scout this place.
We're looking through binoculars. We're looking on this field. This is in Kansas.
And there was at least four strutting toms and just a metric buttload of hens all over this field.
And we watched them as the sun
went down. We're just quietly watching them from the front of the truck.
Like it's enough to where you can see underneath the trees and it kind of flowed
(20:22):
down. You can see the green patch and you can just see them.
And, uh, we watched them fly up, man. Tom's were gobbling. And,
uh, for those who are not as familiar in the evenings, the time will fly up typically first.
His will be shortly there to follow, but he'll start gobbling.
If he's gobbling his brains out in the evening, in the evening,
like as it's starting to get dark, he's on a limb and he's calling the ladies to roost.
(20:42):
He's like making sure that his, his females are with him.
It doesn't always work that way. They're not all sitting on the same limb,
but they're in the same group of trees or whatever. ever.
And then as they wake up in the morning, if you've had the opportunity to roost
them, you don't want to like sit up right underneath them with a headlamp in the dark.
Don't do that. But okay. They were in this field yesterday.
They generally want to strut in this place. Why do they want to strut?
(21:03):
They want to show off their feathers.
If it's been raining or it's damp or it's cool, they want a sun and warm up.
They may want to dust and they're all going to eat.
And while they're eating, they're going to put on a show for the ladies because
it's an opportunity soon as a mate.
So if you can get to a place where you're, okay, I know they flew up there,
or I know the hens tend to congregate here, or I know that I see strutters here
(21:23):
in the morning or in the afternoons, then set up in a way that you think you
can get there without being too obtrusive on their bedroom.
And then a couple rules of thumb. If the hens are talking a lot on the roost
and the toms start gobbling and you can see all that happening,
watch the show for a second.
But as the hens will start to do a fly down cackle, there's a couple of things you can can do.
You can start going berserk on your call because you want to get that hen thinking
(21:46):
that she's got other hens that she's competing with.
If you're camouflaged enough to where you can hear that time,
but you can't see them, you can.
With your hat. I don't know if you can hear that over the phone,
but you can flap down if you don't have a turkey wing and you can.
Sounds just like a turkey coming down. Yeah. And you can do your, you can do that.
Just anything to try to convince whoever's out in that field or where you saw them roost.
(22:10):
Hey, there's some legitimate lady activity going on over here. Right. Right.
Now here's the other thing that you got to know is bucks chase does in the deer
world. Hens come to Tom's.
And the reason the time gets fired up and the reason he comes chasing and a
lot of times you beat up on a decoy or whatever is he's worked up because she
(22:33):
disobeyed the natural order in his world i gobble i'm the one that's showing
you're supposed to come to me,
and so in an ideal situation you're the only hand he's really looking for and
he comes looking for you and he's searching he's searching you had him all the
path in the worst case scenario he runs runs into a real live hand between your cold and his gobble.
(22:56):
And then you really Sean, and we've all been there. You gotta,
you gotta play a risk game of, you gotta get super aggressive and you gotta
convince that hen that now she's got competition and they'll like, he's dumb dude.
Now he's ticked off and you've got to convince him he's competing.
And so is she. So I've been exactly where you are, but dude,
my son, we, we did it. We went to this field.
(23:18):
We watched all these things go up. We get down in this little thicket.
We knew where all these birds were, and sure as heck, sun comes up,
they're gobbling, hens are going crazy.
We start calling. Everybody's flying down. I'm matching the hands.
They're going. The toms are coming.
And the next thing you know, I don't know if you've ever heard a drum,
but behind us, a tom came over.
And I don't know how to – I can't mimic a drum. I was like – and they just –
(23:43):
they are drumming that diaphragm in their body.
You see their chest almost vibrating when they do it. Yeah. And this tom was behind me.
And I'm frozen. It's youth season. I don't even have a gun. My son's got his gun.
He pointed out at this field i'm not exaggerating and so he's pointing out this field and there's,
people can't see me but he's got like a fork a tree like in between like two
(24:06):
little saplings but like i don't know why he did that but in the morning he
set his gun up right between his fork,
and he was dead on accurate at those two toms that were way out in the field
but this time walked by us i swear to you man he could have stepped on my toes.
And i was like the gun swing the
gun and he couldn't swing the gun i looked over i was like like oh no he can't
(24:26):
but he got i mean this thing was shaking our chest drumming and he goes out
in the field and they get to fighting unfortunately they're fighting out of
range but he got to see that at the age of like 11 years old and he's had multiple
experiences where he's seen all sorts of,
great performance so i say like they don't get disheartened sometimes you go
a long time but still there's hunters that'll hunt their whole life without
(24:49):
having a turkey i'm literally drumming and walking on top of him because he's
so focused on those other toms.
So anyway, I get long-winded. Man, turkey hunting is my passion. It's where I started.
And I joke all the time. I prefer to always be able to hunt what I want.
But if I couldn't hunt anything else.
I would hunt turkey. If you're like Jake, you only get to hunt one thing the
(25:09):
rest of your life, I'd hunt turkey. It's the most interactive.
It's the most challenging, in my opinion, and the most rewarding.
I think, put it for people that don't hunt turkey, I think the best way to put
it is it's like the rut for whitetail on steroids.
Because you know that's that's what
i kind of equate it to because you know
(25:31):
you can hunt whitetail all season long but it's
nothing like those that time during a rut when those
when those bucks are chasing the does and you can re you
can rattle when you rattle a buck in i mean when you're out
there the times that i've had those encounters you know
i've had a couple of awesome kind of what you described encounters
with some turkeys and it's been really really cool during and
(25:52):
turkey season just to be in that encounter situation because
your heart rate gets to go in and i think that's it's that
adrenaline rush that just that encounter that's that
kind of drives you to come back because it's so
up up close and personal with those turkey that are out there and that's why
i see why so many people get addicted to it in the springtime i know i got i
(26:13):
got friends they'll tell me they'll be like people like i wouldn't they'll they'll
tell you they're like just let me go with you they like i just love to call
them and they're gonna like i I don't even,
they're just like, I just want to go call them and watch, and watch you shoot
because they just enjoy that part of it that much.
Yeah. There's a, there's an incredibly reward, rewarding aspect of it.
(26:33):
And don't get me wrong. Shooting a bird is challenging in itself.
You can ask any Turkey hunter, if they've done it long enough,
they've missed and it doesn't even make sense. But yeah.
But calling one in convincing the Tom that like you're what he's looking for
and, and knowing when to kind of get heavy on the call.
And then frankly, no one to put that daggum call down.
And that's really the art of it. You got a seal deal. And again,
(26:58):
we've all missed, but you to get him within range, even take the shot.
I think that's why you got friends. I'm like, now I just want to call.
I just want to prove to myself that I can bring them in.
And it's so much fun to do it. And that's why I love guiding Turkey.
Uh, And, uh, I've taken a lot of folks and gotten them their first bird.
I've also taken a lot of folks and we've made a lot of mistakes.
So I can tell you volume one, the early years I had to screw up a turkey hunt.
(27:22):
I've done it, but, but it's so much fun.
You know, I went bow hunting for elk years ago, killed a nice bull elk.
And I tell people all the time, elk hunting ain't nothing but,
you know, 800 pound turkey.
They're, they just respond. White-tailed deer, you and I both know,
man, they're a wary creature, and rightfully so.
(27:42):
They've got plenty of things that are out to get them in this world,
but they're not a very vocal creature.
If at the right time, you know when to rattle. You know, okay,
there's a dominant buck in here. I know he's teed up.
I know that if I rattle, he's going to be the dude that's challenged and thinks
the other guys are fighting for either property or ladies.
Okay, I'll do it. or it's just that right time maybe
you hear a snort wheeze or a grunt and you kind of reciprocate or
(28:04):
you see some chasing and you're just trying to get on the action but otherwise
white-tailed deer are really quiet yeah but deer
or excuse me elk and turkey they're such
vocal creatures and so it's so interactive and that's
what i love about it is because you are not only trying
to find your prey but you're playing a game of
you're trying to fool them into like oh that's who i want
(28:27):
want to talk to and you can do it wrong you know and i
can't remember the first time i ever went turkey hunting a good friend
of mine handed me a pot call this has been 20 years ago
good friend of mine handed me a pot call and i started to work on this thing
and he looked at me through his face mask and he made some eye contact and shook
his head took it from me and uh but that was my that was my clue to be like
(28:49):
hey man this is just you don't just go out here and freaking and yeah destroy
this call you got to know something but that's the practice you know that's.
It's all about practice trying to trying to get it
right and i think but that's like i say at any time i
go hunting or go fishing i'm always learning something i'm
always trying to figure something different because what
(29:09):
everybody asks us like it's whether it's
hunting or fishing it's never the actual catching your
fish or taking of the animal it's the the chase
of the process it's the process that you go through it's
the unlocking the puzzle all those pieces that you you
put together and you when you when you finally put
that puzzle together it that's what kind of intrigues you
(29:31):
and that's what makes you you know that what
you originally started when we talked about this was that well balanced brings
you back kind of center it relieves that stress that
you kind of you know look for in life
is is that that whole sense of
everything that you've kind of figured out that you
know it's a puzzle is the best way to describe it.
(29:53):
It's it's a puzzle and you put it all together and sometimes
you don't and some you know and and and then you
you learn like man i did this and i shouldn't have
done that or i did do this and i should do this but you
take that and you put it you put it you follow it away for
the next time you go about and you're like i was
in that situation before so don't do this and
(30:13):
don't do that you know so you learn from each and every single
one of those those deals to kind of help it go forward
and and make it a better hunter fishing experience the next
time yeah i mean turkey's got some comparison bass fishing i am not the best
fisherman you are i don't think that ever will be i do my best fishing on a
pond i know he's got bass in it you know on a farm or something not where you
(30:36):
guys are really trying to really trying to find the fish dial in on before you.
Start catching things but i'll tell you the same
way that you've got like a whole bag of tricks yeah and
i've gone fishing with a couple of folks from from your
team and i was wowed by how many
rods they had in their boat and how many setups they
(30:56):
had and they were presented the the speed and the rate at which they were presenting
different things and that doesn't that's not a direct translation but but for
turkey as an example there'd be times that you're like man you're not saying
anything for this plate and i'll pull out like a copper call or a titanium call
or Slate call, glass call, crystal, you name it.
Like, we all kind of get to where we have a few things in heavy rotation.
(31:19):
But it's like, if they ain't biting the Carolina rig, then, you know,
I'll go to a crankbait or I'll go to a rattle trap or whatever.
And it's the same thing with turkey. And that's what's fun. Like you said,
knowing what tool I got to use and knowing, like, okay.
Circumstances environment situations different i can adapt and
that's incredibly rewarding too and you learn a lot
you learn oh wait a minute wait a minute that's too loud and that's
(31:42):
and and different parts of the country do
you you have to do different things but that's the other key
piece i think i take for granted i don't know about you but
i kind of take for granted being in the military has allowed
me to go to a lot of different places to fish and hunt to
be exposed to a lot of different environments for
fishing hunting and what you realize doing that not
(32:04):
turkey deer bass you name
it they don't all respond the exact same way
and is that in different parts of kind of now they all have some
of the same tendencies but you learn
that you know a fish in
in highland reservoir in north carolina relates to
structure differently than the tendency all these things that you
(32:26):
kind of learn and so that's what i think is really cool that that i
think from from our perspective of being in the military for as
long as we get and getting you get the part
of being away just having to move all the time always i never
that's never a fun part but the part that i do take away
from that is is all the experience that i've got to experience in
different environments to hunt and fish in and
(32:47):
i don't i don't think we i haven't kind of told that.
Story enough and from a personal perspective
because i always say this i look at people they
they grow up and they hunt the same places they fish the same places
and they don't know any different where you and i've had to adapt in so many
different types of environments across the country and it really makes you a
better outdoorsman along the way yeah i've killed nice deer uh in kansas my
(33:13):
biggest deer ever is in missouri all because of military travel travel.
And in Georgia, but probably the proudest I am of any deer was just like you
said, I got transplanted.
I taught briefly at the United States military Academy.
And while I was there, you know, I was transplanted in New York and I was like,
man, want to get a nice deer with my bow.
(33:35):
And we were doing summer training and I saw this buck and he was,
uh, he was frankly a call for any other, uh, environment.
He's a big, and I know what people are thinking like, Cole is a basket six.
No, man, this dude's a huge six. I can send you
this this picture and you're like good lord like it's fork horns yeah enormous
and it carried mass all the way through but he was never
gonna be anything but a six pointer i saw him and this
(33:58):
guy that was next to me you know who lived in new york and worked on the range
there was like oh man i've been seeing that deer for years he's so ugly i'm
like that deer walks out in front of me during boasts i'm gonna smack him because
to me i was like if that deer is that old that this guy's I've been seeing him
for years and he was clearly old and velvet.
He looked good, but he's just big old fork horns and tall brow times.
(34:21):
And I was kind of funky looking. But anyway, I killed that deer.
And it's one of the proudest things because it was like, I'm a transplant.
New York is totally different than hunting the bottoms in Georgia.
Yeah, it's certainly different than hunting planes.
And some of these fingers and bottoms in Kansas, not the same agriculture,
not the same geography at all. So anyway, super proud to have done that in New
(34:44):
York. And like you said, it exposes you to so much.
That's one of the great things about the military is you get to meet the mom and pop places.
Like one of my favorite things to do after hunting any new place is to figure
out where the greasy spoon is.
And I ain't talking about waffle house. Figure out where the old timers are
sitting around, drink up coffee.
And they'll, they'll, they'll look at your side out a couple of times,
(35:04):
you know, but you just keep showing up, man, and ask them questions.
And I've met some really cool people.
It's not a hundred percent but occasionally over.
20 years you meet those dudes and the next
thing you know they ask you to come hunting with them it doesn't happen all the time and i
certainly wouldn't go in it with that motivation but yeah sean that
whole experience i'm grateful for the people talk
(35:26):
about all my military experience so frustrating yeah life's frustrating
but there's been some cool rewards with all the travel we've
done the people we've gotten to meet and like you said i've gotten
to travel and hunt in a lot of places i would have never seen had
it not been been from the military so yeah i agree with you on that on
that and that that's that's one of the coolest things
we kind of wrap that up i think i love i love
(35:48):
the ability to tell those stories that we've been around the
country and to the hunt and
fish some of the places that i never would
have traveled to do that i think that's pretty cool and and i
think you know it's one of those
stories that i think we as we tell more and and we
expose more of the people in the military to
(36:08):
give them an opportunity to share our love for the outdoors i think it'll
be we're doing them ability to get out
there and and find that balance and but not
just maybe it's not just from a military you know
from a fish and hunting perspective but to tell them that there's find something
that you enjoy to do that gives you that balance in your life because
i think that's important that we kind of talk about i know
(36:28):
there's been a lot of fun talking to you today i know we could probably talk a
whole hour hour and a half oh i knew this so it could be easy
with you and i because we could we could have a conversation and we
you're one you're the one of the easy ones that we have such a passion
for what we do and it's easy to kind of get out there you know.
So it's been a good deal we have a lot of stuff coming up this
week for us we're going to be at lake fork at the mega bass event.
(36:49):
And so we'll have our booth there and that's going to be a lot of fun and this
this month starts april and so one of the cool things in the month of april
and one of the cool things for the podcast that i want to talk things outside
of fishing and hunting we kind of hit on a little bit with jake and i today.
Is things that from things from
(37:10):
my career other people's career and how
we've kind of shaped from an outdoors perspective but month is the month of
april is the month of the military child so one thing that i kind of want to
do this month is later on in the month is we're probably gonna bring on probably
my boys who are big outdoorsmen to kind of talk from that perspective of being again,
(37:30):
a dependent of of.
Of the military and how that kind of falls into it. And I think that would be
kind of neat for the listeners to go forward and kind of talk that.
And so we're, we're going to do that show this month. And then we're going to
have some of our sponsors on this month to kind of talk about some of the cool things that go on.
So once again, I appreciate it, Jake, and I appreciate what you guys are doing.
(37:52):
So you guys know, cause I talked about my boys, Jake is actually going to make
a call for me to, to give to the high school football team.
Where my son plays football that i'm getting him to do up
that we're going to actually auction off for the
high school football team there and it's going to be a pretty awesome deal
that we do with jake and that i love what we
(38:13):
do with army bass english we we had
something that we did at toby the texas omen's bass
invitation we got something we're going to do at patriot sporting challenge but i
i say this because jake has some ties to clarksville tennessee
the home of the 101st airborne division and that
in the fall they do a an event where i
wanted to do something with my boys in conjunction and
(38:36):
so i thought what better way we got a lot of that close
to real foot and a lot of people on kentucky lake that duck hunt so jake is
working a real custom call for that so it'll be really cool to have that opportunity
to showcase some of his work around the fort Fort Campbell 101st Airborne Division
area, and we just really look forward to it.
(38:57):
So I appreciate it again, Jake, once again, having you on.
And if you guys want to know more about what we do at Army Bass,
Buck, Hog, or Duck, go to forceonforcetv.com and make sure you watch the season
13 premiere of Army Bass and the Force on Force. See you next week. Cool?
Thanks for listening to the Force on Force podcast. Join us next time as we
(39:18):
dive into more topics from the Force on Force talk. For more information or
to learn how to join the organization, visit our website at forceonforcetv.com.
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