June 16, 2025 • 38 mins
Struggling with pitch doesn’t mean you’re tone deaf. Most of the time, it means you just haven’t trained your brain, ears and/or vocal folds yet. Pitch is learnable—and with the right tools, anyone can improve.
In this conversation, we break down why pitch issues happen, how long it actually takes to improve, what to do if you’ve been told (or told yourself) that you “just can’t sing” and how important pitch really is (spoiler - it’s not the end all, be all!). If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re hopeless or if your ear is just “bad,” this episode might change everything.
📍Mentioned Resource: Ear Training YouTube Series: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLu-AX9181fPIqpOBYnInrbF30P6YNxlnb
👉 Want to make practicing easier? Grab our FREE warm up track here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/free-warm-up-track
👉 Want to know exactly what your voice needs to improve? Get a vocal evaluation from our professional coaches here: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/vocal-evaluation
👉 Book a 1:1 session with Coach Lara: https://lessons.voxtapestudios.com/trial-lesson
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
really gets me gets me going haha
yeah it's just discussion honestly
I find it quite heartbreaking
yeah me too
because it's you most likely not what's happening yeah
it's you most likely not what's happening
but somebody told you that
or you're telling yourself that
that's sometimes also the case
yes and I'm like no
you're just if you're telling it yourself that
then you're using it as an excuse
(00:20):
yeah and we're a defense
a defense a defense yeah
I like that
if you wanna learn it you can learn it
absolutely
and that doesn't mean it's not gonna be challenging
and that's okay like
and it might take a bit
like it might take a couple weeks
months it's not supposed to be easy yeah
it's gonna take months learning
science says it's gonna take at least six weeks
(00:41):
to learn the first stage of something new
hey voxar and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
(01:02):
at Voxar Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources Alrighty
(01:22):
are you ready let's get started
today
we are coming to you from our little New York studio
I mean it's not ours
but we're running it out but you know
close enough together with Coach Emily hey hello
hello
you are joining me for a very important conversation
about pitch mmm hmm
pitch in singing it's just
(01:43):
it's so interesting I feel like pitch has always been
like a conversation that's been like happening um
in my journey as a singer
as a vocal coach and all of the above
but recently I feel like it's showing up a lot
yes and same
you know
like with the whole like autotune conversation and
(02:03):
you know like people saying you
if you have to use autotune
you can't sing and like oh
but there's like there's so many nuances to all of this
like oh my God yeah
so this is why I wanted to talk with you about pitch
because every time we have somebody
that comes across our studio
that's like okay
we we
we need to we need to work on pitch a little bit
make sure that the notes are mostly there
(02:26):
um I sent them to you
cause for whatever reason
I don't know how you do it
but you work with them for a couple months
and it's like not even an issue anymore
and I'm like how did you do this hahaha
so I'm very glad to have you here in the studio today
yes I'm really happy to talk about it
because it's something like I
I was thinking I wanna start out with just like
(02:48):
entering the conversation of like
pitch is not a moral
being on pitch is not a moral event
I feel like
a lot of people put a lot of pressure on themselves
especially people who um
are challenged with like hearing pitch
and then making that connection to singing
the same pitch
matching pitch yeah
it's something that's been
like you said
it's been showing up a lot lately and I don't know
(03:09):
I don't know why but um
or I don't know why it's been showing up
but yeah that I think there are a couple
a couple routes to go down
but the first thing I wanna say is that it is not
you're not a bad person or a bad singer
if you struggle to match pitch
it is so much harder
than what everybody makes it seem to be yes
(03:31):
matching pitch
like I am consistently flat in my belt range
like belt mix range uh
but for me it's not like
it's not a pitch issue it's a tension issue usually
and that gets into the next thing of what's where
what's the source yeah
you know why
why are you not matching pitch
is it because you genuinely can't hear it
(03:52):
is it um
because there's a mind muscle connection
that has never been worked on before
I think uh
it also or is it tension
is it air flow there are so many things that can
there's so many things that are
just obstacles in your way yeah
and that's just
or is it ear training and you actually can't hear it
yeah exactly yeah
is it just ear training that was
(04:12):
that was for me the longest time the
the problem like in my belt because I was so loud yeah
cause I had no control over my volume in my belt
I couldn't hear yeah
when I was on or off pitch uh
or just like slightly under is
is usually what what would happen
and even today it sometimes still happens
and I'm like my voice teacher
when I'm working with him and he's like
(04:33):
hmm
go go up
just a little the little finger right
that's like up up up
and I'm like I literally can't hear that
I think you're lying to me
I think I am perfectly on pitch
he's like
you're 5% under and I'm like
I can't hear that what the heck
it's it's so
cause there's you know
like you can be quote unquote on pitch
(04:54):
but you can also be in the center of the pitch
yes and like there's like oh
it's nuance yeah
there's so much nuance to it yeah
especially if you're
if you've ever had this experience where you're here
you hear yourself and you're like
I think I'm flat
and then you play the note and you're on the note yeah
but something's still off
that's like when you're like misaligned
(05:15):
you know you're not quite in the center of your pitch
yes yes yes
oh my gosh
and then sometimes we have students that come like
when they do a first time lesson with me
and they like when you book a lesson
you you fill out a little questionnaire
and I'm asking you like you know
what do you feel like you need to work on
what's keeping you from achieving your goals
and then sometimes people say like yeah
like my pitch isn't that great
and I'm like oh okay
(05:36):
well we'll see
and then they sing and I'm like
yeah what's your problem with pitch
like your pitch is great
like when you're when you're singing live
you're never gonna be 100% on pitch
and it's just not the reality
boring to as a live performer yeah
if you're like yeah
yeah yeah
like oh yeah
sure it sounds nice
but yeah it's more interesting to hear yeah yeah yeah
(05:58):
you know
like that's a more fun thing to listen to and to sing
yeah yes
yes there's so there's a lot of nuance to it so
but at the end of the day
uh yes
pitch is just one part of it
there's also your tone and the storytelling
the emotion like all of all of that other stuff too
pitch is just one part of it yes
but or and if the pitch isn't there
(06:21):
and we're like a little bit all over the board
then I kind of think that
all of the other stuff that you can do
doesn't really matter because we can't hear it
because we we're like
is this off pitch mm hmm right
absolutely so okay
where do we start this whole conversation around pitch
here's the exercise I use to start with
(06:41):
everyone I notice
or has mentioned struggles with pitch okay
so what I have them do is just like
sometimes I have them close their eyes and I will yeah
so first it's just like get
get in your get out of yes environment right
get out of the fear of it um
and I just kind of test the mind
muscle connection part of it
(07:03):
so I say
I'm gonna play these two notes usually it's a hmm
right and I'll play the two notes and I say alright
I want you to hear them hum them in your head
take a second and then do it
mm hmm
and often very
very often that solves the problem wow
(07:25):
that solves it
because they're so stressed out about getting the note
right that they're not actually taking in the notes
as information yeah
and so it's like especially if you're like
I if you feel like
you should really struggle in exercises
but you're pretty much fine in songs for the most part
that's probably where you're sitting
and that's also a a gauge for me of if they do that
(07:48):
and then they're really far off
then I'm then I start problem solving
yeah trying to figure out
you know what's the next step
are we at the top of their range
and they're just slightly under
and it's like oh
your voice doesn't know how to
work through these challenges
at the top of your range or bottom of your range
or is it your training that's yeah
usually where I start okay
(08:10):
figuring that out okay
the closing your eyes thing
that you mentioned at the very beginning
yes um
it it's almost like you're removing one of the senses
yeah so you can focus more on the hearing sense
yeah and yeah
it's also a mental thing too
yeah no
for sure I love that that's that's a very
(08:32):
a very good like
little trick to just kind of like center yourself again
be like hold on and also giving yourself the time right
like hearing it humming it in your head
taking a moment right
and then doing it I usually
like
when I'm working with a singer in a first time lesson
and they're struggling with pitch
that's usually what I do with them so it's
it's good for me to see like okay
(08:52):
I'm doing the right things I'm doing the right things
yes yes yes well
and then that also is like
if they hum it in their head
and it's not the pictures that
and then they sing
something that is not the pictures that they
that you played and they don't know that
or the singer doesn't know that
then that's that's where you know okay
this is ear training okay
this is ear training and sometimes
(09:14):
it can take
a little bit of time to figure out the best approach
with that student
because some people work really well with slides
some people
slides just totally throw out their target notes
or uh
some people work in small
I often will work on like a do re mi re do situation
okay very small um
and staccato coordination exercises
(09:37):
mixed with pitch matching to teach your body
when I hear this I do this hmm yeah
can you give us an example for that
yeah
an example would be if I want you to match ah
and can you sing a random note as if that's
as if you need ear training ah
(09:59):
it's just harmonizing to it hahaha well
that's also that's
we can talk about that later but um hahaha
but um so what I'll ask there is
did you feel like that was right on the
note below or above
well that was above yeah I I know that but yeah
and so and I will say often
(10:20):
they'll either be in the right direction
or think they're close to the note
so because it was above I said okay
let's take that note and let's just slide down
we did ah
ah ah ah
nice we'll do that three or four more times
usually four four is the magic learning number
so we'll do that four times and then we'll do ah ah ah
(10:42):
ah ah ah
ah ah
and keep doing that
and then eventually we'll cut the slide
and we'll just do that ah
ah ah
that first one was flat haha
yeah yeah exactly
(11:03):
so we start there and then
what I always think is really important
in these pitch lessons after about 15 minutes
sometimes 20 if like we're both really in it yeah
about 15 minutes we just we gotta go do something else
yeah we gotta do something else
especially if it is a challenging ear training session
because who's you're not gonna get the notes right
(11:24):
if you feel like you aren't doing a great job yeah
you know and then you're in the frustration
and then that just makes it worse
exactly so then we switch to something
and even if the entire song is off pitch
maybe we'll work on pitch a little bit
we work on something else
because there's probably something else going on
with the voice too
yes you know
like there was one student
we worked on pitch a lot
(11:45):
and then we would go to the song and we probably
we mostly just worked on tension in the song and um
artistry and other things that once the pitch is where
is where we want it
those things will kind of be worked out
hmm and so not to just drill in unhelpful habits
but just to give you a break
cause you need to enjoy it at the end of the day
(12:07):
so here's this is bringing up a funny
a funny story uh
so I was in the studio at home coaching the singer
Danielle I did a lesson with her
yeah years ago
and so we recorded a session and we
we posted it on on
like on all the platforms
and then there were people saying like that
(12:27):
I don't know at all me as the vocal coach
what I am talking about
because she was struggling with pitch
and we were not just the entire hour long
talking about pitch
we were talking about other things too
and at one point at more than one point
yeah
but there's a specific point that we're talking about
where I said nailed it
that was great the pitch was off
(12:48):
but what I asked her to do
she did yes
right right
and she did exactly what I asked her to do
there just the pitch wasn't quite right
yep and I said
I said nailed it
and then the
some of the people in the comments were like
you're a terrible teacher
you're not being truthful with this student
you're you're setting wrong expectations
like and they were like
(13:09):
nothing against you Daniel
you're doing a great job but like
you really need to work with someone like
who knows what they're talking about
and I'm like that's insane
I am not pretending that I know everything
I definitely do not and I have a lot to learn
I totally understand that
but pitch isn't everything yes
pitch is not everything and if you make it everything
that's where you start hating singing
(13:30):
exactly especially if it's a
it is a very hard
it's very hard to learn a motor skill
like it is so hard to do that mind muscle connection
it's also very hard to be an adult
and learn how to do something from step 0 yeah
for the first time
when you're very proficient at other things
(13:50):
so I think that that that's the approach that I
it's a very similar to the approach that I take of like
pitch isn't everything
and great if you can sing on pitch
but you're going ugh
like yeah
the the it's okay if you're on pitch yeah
yeah yeah yeah
there's nuance to it there's yes
of course and yeah
you don't wanna keep drilling something and then yeah
(14:13):
you lose the joy that makes no sense
that's what I was trying to do in that session too
and then you know
I mean haters gonna be hating yeah
you always find something haha
of course to bitch about and like that's totally fine
but at that point
like I just wanted to make sure that you know
like
Danielle is not getting hurt in the process of this
because that's not fair yeah
not at all so anyways pitches and everything and yeah
(14:34):
yeah okay
so I remember you were working with a singer from LA
originally from Spain
but moved to LA originally speaking Spanish
English
second language and he was struggling with pitch
and then three months later
like I sent him to you and then three months later
(14:56):
he was singing a song in Spanish with me
he was doing a song in English with you
he was doing a song in Spanish and nailed it
like 90% of the time was there compared to before
it was a little bit all over the place and this
and I remember in that session
it's like he went he actually went a little bit sharp
so instead of just constantly being under
(15:17):
he actually went we found so much range expansion
I think we mostly did tension work
and he was one of my first students with you as well
yes and one of my first students in general um
and we did a lot of speech
that's actually my next step is speech like work
ah you know
speaking to singing
just getting used to what singing is yeah um
(15:40):
speaking to singing we uh
untangled we de detangled um
tongue and jaw decoupled them
mm hmm then we realized oh
your range goes way way up
uh huh um
I also you know
I he mentioned something he was like
oh I have this song it's in Spanish though
I'm like do a song in Spanish yeah
why not totally do a song in Spanish
(16:03):
I've worked with people who've done in
songs in a bunch of different languages
that I don't know and I said
what I can help you with is the technique
what I can help you with is like
pronounce pronunciation if articulations
that's a little different yeah
but like with how you pronounce it
you know like I
I know what I know
and I'm not gonna pretend that I don't yeah
when it comes to yeah I really have no
no experience in but um yeah
(16:24):
it was uh he also was a really
he was a great practitioner nice yeah
that helps that helps a lot
he'd be like oh
I did all this this week um
but yeah the speech like singing
we also went down into his chest foot
he came in singing like a Selena Gomez song
(16:45):
that was way with me he did like the weekend oh
it was the weekend featuring Ariana Grande I can
I connected the weekend and Selena Gomez
cause they dated that one time
that was my oh fair
it was the weekend featuring Ariana Grande
it was that same song yeah
that sounds about right yeah
and it was really high this was years ago
yeah yeah
this was this was three almost three years ago
yeah yeah
and it was really high and I was like
(17:07):
why don't we bulk up your chest voice a little bit
that's also like getting a gauge of what their range is
is the pitch matching the pitch
the problem with the pitch matching was that
it was way too high and so
his body just did not know how to coordinate up there
so we were like so I was like
let's learn how to coordinate down here
uh huh let's learn those motor skills down here
(17:27):
and then we can make our way up
and then yeah
and then we just unlocked something with that
wow and it was a big
big difference
so it sounds like for him it was a little bit more uh
vocal training yes
then like ear training yes
yeah but I
when you're singing something that is
outside of what your voice is comfortable doing
(17:49):
for the moment I'll say um
it can be very challenging
like the two can be hard to tell the difference between
hmm okay
like it wasn't until we discovered like
let's go into this chest voice
and the pitch matching was not a problem anymore
OK that yeah
do you think singing in his language
also made a difference absolutely
(18:10):
why absolutely
I think it was less to think about uh huh
I think at I think at that stage in his training
it was very helpful
he also I think he liked the song more okay
I think he wanted to sing
because Ariana Grande's awesome yeah
you wanna sing that other song yeah
and I think he genuinely connected to I I again
(18:30):
it was years ago
I can't remember the the song in Spanish
but he genuinely connected to that one more yeah okay
cool yeah
so if you're struggling with one song
maybe try something else
try something totally different
I think also helps this it's also
getting out of the box
of what you think you should be doing or oh
I really want to sing this type of song
(18:50):
even though it's totally uncomfortable for me yeah
try something else
doesn't mean we have to say no to these
and never to these but just try something
totally in the opposite direction
try something really low
like even I I know that my my prima voce is yeah
haha sweet spot in your voice yeah
(19:11):
way up here right
like in belting and in head voice
like that's kind of where I feel very comfortable
and I like the sound
but that does not mean I still train my oh oh
like oh
and it sounds so easy cause it is
and I'm like get in chest voice
get in chest voice yeah
(19:32):
fair enough okay
okay
okay I wanna know your opinion on being tone deaf
because I actually just two days ago
somebody sent me an email and was like
my choir director told me I'm tone deaf
and this person is approaching seventy right
and and so it's like I'm taking voice lessons
(19:53):
like nothing's helping I don't know what I'm doing um
but I now started like speaking songs instead of like
singing them and then I listened to him do that
he sent me like a YouTube video and what not
so I listened to it and his rhythm
like his timing his groove
like all of that even though he was just speaking
(20:14):
it was so spot on yeah
that I have a really hard time believing that
he has no sense for pitch
yeah I just don't believe it
I
tone deaf is hard because it technically exists
and people who are tone deaf
tend to not like The Sound of music
(20:35):
hmm not the musical
maybe the musical too but yeah
the actual sound of music
they don't like listening to it
there's something about
about music that just doesn't connect
yeah um
so it's not impossible it is likely not the case
and it was likely thrown at you as an insult
which is the worst part I'm
it's I mean
maybe it's not the worst part
(20:55):
but it's of so I think it's pretty
it's pretty bad the amount of people who were like
I'm toned up I've been told I'm toned up
I was put even I even have like a
like someone in my family who was like
I was told to to mouth the lyrics in the choir yes
so many people and it's like just foster them and yes
connect yourself to a love of music
(21:16):
but yeah tone deafness is
you are you're probably not tone deaf
you're probably not tone deaf
yeah
well I always say that
if you can identify
when somebody else is singing off pitch yeah
you're not tone deaf
because tone deaf people can't hear that exactly
sometimes it's difficult to hear it in your own voice
but it's much easier to hear it in somebody else yeah
(21:38):
so if you can hear that
then you're not tone deaf and you can learn it
it might take a little bit of practice
and I'm sorry that you weren't naturally born
you know with the skill of matching pitch perfectly
you know but it's still something you can learn
and a lot of your students are proof of that
yeah I
I think and it's just
it makes me happy to see people who like
(21:58):
no longer have to struggle with what I
I you know
I'll say with my full chest
that's the hardest part the hardest
if you have to if
if you have to learn how to match pitch
that's probably the hardest part of singing yeah
I would agree with that and
and that's and it's okay if that's just how you
you know connect with music
there's probably some sort of again
(22:20):
like an obstacle there
and it's probably a mental obstacle
or it's just the mind muscle connection
uh huh it's the same thing
have you ever watched someone dance
who isn't very coordinated
and is just like flinging their body around
has no idea of spatial awareness yeah
like I always love watching those videos
like a Zumba class
where there's always one person just like
(22:40):
going in the opposite direction of where everybody
else is going I'm like
she's living her life exactly
let's go and she's having the time of her life yeah
so much fun yes
so it's it's crazy how there is so much judgment
when it comes to singing with that yes
like I feel like a lot of people joke that like oh
I'm not a dancer hahaha
but like it feels embarrassing to not to be like
(23:02):
oh I can't match pitch
you know yeah
or they joke like oh
I can't sing duh duh duh
you know and it's like
you probably can yeah
that's also my thing you probably can sing yeah
yeah you can at least learn to get better at it too
yes right
you can you can learn
I I was talking to someone
I was like
not everyone is gonna be an Olympian and that's okay
yeah you know
you can be phenomenal at whatever sport
(23:25):
now we're getting to sports stuff yeah
yeah you can be phenomenal at swimming
but that doesn't mean you're gonna be an Olympian
and that's okay like a lot of these Olympians were
they were born and then they Learned how to swim
and then somehow they always did it
then they always did it perfectly or not perfectly
but wonderfully uh huh
(23:45):
to the point of like recognition competition
whatever yeah right
like I know for me I am fortunate to you know
I was born singing all the time
you know uh
so that makes a lot of things easier
I was not born dancing I took dance
I've taken a lot of dance classes in my life
I'm coordinated my
I can't kick my face but it's
(24:06):
I also can like recognize like these are
I know what my skills are
I know that if you cast me as the lead in your musical
and you say here's a dance break
I'll be just fine uh huh
and that means I'm not going for a course line
and that's okay yeah
so right so it's like when it comes to singing
if if your range is down here
(24:27):
and you're always speaking here
and then you sing and then
or and then you're
you're speaking and then you're like
oh I brought in finally 29 you know
like that pretend I belted
you know yeah
and you bring that in and you're like
I suck it's like
no no no
no me
you're talking about me you're not a soprano Olympian
you know yeah
(24:48):
you can be an Alto Olympian
you can do you know
but it's yeah
it's a whole it's a whole thing
tone deafness really gets me
gets me going haha
yeah it's just discussion honestly
I find it quite heartbreaking
yeah me too
because it's you most likely not what's happening yeah
but somebody told you that
or you're telling yourself that
that's sometimes also the case
yes and I'm like
(25:09):
no you're just
if you're telling it yourself that
then you're using it as an excuse
yeah and we're a defense
a defense a defense
yeah I like that
if you wanna learn it you can learn it
absolutely
and that doesn't mean it's not gonna be challenging
and that's okay like
and it might take a bit
like it might take a couple weeks months
it's not supposed to be easy
yeah it's gonna take months
(25:30):
learning science says
it's gonna take at least six weeks
to learn the first stage of something new
right loosely yeah
um so if after 7 weeks
you're like ugh
I cannot get it just give it some time
yeah give yourself Grace
(25:50):
cause the more frustrated you get with yourself
the harder it's gonna be it's like
it's like when people say like
I had steam coming out of my ears
like I I start seeing red
it's like you cannot focus on what's actually happening
no you cannot take things in as information
that's the biggest thing taking notes in as information
and that's why you only work on pitch for 15 minutes
and then you do something else
and then you do something else
because there are so many other things to work it
(26:13):
to work on in general but also to enjoy about music
yeah like that's
that's actually I really do enjoy working with people
who are learning how to match pitch
because I feel like I have
I'm presented with an opportunity to help someone
love music
regardless of where they sit with it yeah
and I I feel like that's
(26:35):
I think that's also what helps because I'm so like
let's do this yes
you know I'm so into it
like I try to bring energy that isn't like
that was wrong you know yeah
and I do believe that
it takes a special person for that
it's I do have a lot of patience
yes hahaha
and also you know
just like someone who's very encouraging
(26:57):
uh huh understanding and like
let's try that again yeah
you know it's like just no pressure right
and I feel like with a lot of um
a lot of other like vocal coaches out there
they're like this is
this is the last thing I wanna do yeah
teach you how to match pitch
like I wanna do some more advanced stuff yeah
but then
you know then that
(27:17):
they're just not the right person to teach
the specific skill
and that's fine you know
like I that could be a whole other conversation
because you work with phenomenal students
does not automatically make you a phenomenal teacher
I wasn't gonna say anything
but we cannot take credit for somebody else's success
(27:39):
that's just not how it works
I actually remember uh
being in high school
and I had started working with someone
and I was talking to someone else who's at
who I did educational theater with
and I was like this person like has helped me so
so much and this the the
you know uh
person I was talking to was like
(28:00):
you started
you started working with this person with that voice
yeah
you that voice did not show up
when you started working with them
so just know that you did that yeah
you know yeah
and and I carry that with me as a singer
but also as a teacher of like
you know when when people I mean it's
(28:21):
it's a very nice thing to say when people like
Emily did everything yeah
yeah or like Larson made and like she did everything
yeah and even you've said it too
it's like well
I'm glad that I always say my
I'm glad that my teaching
style works with your learning style
mm hmm you know
because that's really big
but yeah that's how we moved forward
not because I'm magical no no no
you know but also because they put in the work right
(28:42):
they put in the work yeah
we can just give them the tools
and then they put in the work to
to see progress but absolutely
you know if you work with somebody for three weeks
and then I like now I'm amazing
I'm like you probably already were like yeah
you probably your tongue was tight hahaha
oh my gosh that's hilarious
yeah right yeah
but yeah but uh
on the conversation of pitch
like it's it all ties to what we're saying of like
(29:05):
you just believe that you can get there
obviously there are more steps than that
but that's the first one yeah
just like take take the negative self talk out of it
the judgment out of it and the judgment out of it
and be like I'm learning a skill
learning a skill for the first time
go so slow go slower than you think you should be going
(29:25):
because it's so hard to slow down
like in a in a world of instant gratification
oh yeah it is so hard to slow down
but I always say that you have to slow down to speed up
that's how you're going to make faster progress
and I'm telling that to myself too
oh yeah me too
all the things I I've said today yeah
I say to myself and I'm on my way to believing them
you know yes
like yes
(29:46):
but absolutely yeah
slow down to speed up
you're learning something brand new for the like
you probably can't even think of a time
where you've Learned something total
a physical function for the very first time
you don't remember learning how to walk
exactly right exactly
even like picking up pickleball
like you you can do this
(30:07):
you probably can already do
do this swinging motion with your arms now
you know your
your fine tuning it like yeah
with this we're learning how to coordinate muscles that
if you're working on pitch
have never coordinated in this way before yeah
I say that a lot about like
when people have a lot of tension and that
that makes them feel bad I'm like
we're telling all these muscles
(30:27):
that were designed to eat
to do the exact opposite relax the constrictors
don't swallow put the tongue forward
don't bring the food back yeah
release the jaw don't bite down on the food
you know like that was that's the whole point yeah
of other than you know
making beautiful
beautiful sounds of this whole mechanism
so you know
it's easier said than done
(30:48):
mm hmm you know
but have Grace for yourself because you're just
you're training muscles
and if we could just tell our muscles what to do
that would be awesome yeah
but if we could I would have my splits yeah yes
tell me about it I could never do it
I could never do the splits
oh my gosh okay
well
I I find this this whole conversation very fascinating
(31:09):
yeah and also very much like okay
I'm gonna be okay yeah
you know yeah
I don't know the word for that
but just like comforted a little bit comforted yeah
yeah I could only think of calming
but I'm like that's not quite the right word yeah
comforting comforted and the fact that like you're like
you're gonna be OK
it's OK if you don't match the pitch that you're
(31:30):
that you think you're supposed to be like matching yeah
you will yeah you'll be able to do it well
and then there's the whole conversation with like
people who like what I was telling
like
what I was saying in the beginning of this was like
you know sometimes people say I'm struggling with pitch
and then I hear them and I'm like
you're not struggling with pitch at all right
so I just think
understanding that there are so many layers to singing
(31:53):
and that pitch is just a small part of that yeah
and that when you are singing live
you're probably
not going to be 100% of the time on pitch
because like
we're so used to hearing edited vocals now yes yes
like even on social media
everything is edited everything's edited
and by the way our podcasts they're not woohoo hahaha
(32:17):
we do not add any autotune on any of the
the singers that we're working with
or not even reverb or anything
it's all just dry vocals
because I think it's important that people learn to
like that that they just get exposed to yeah
what does real singing sound like
cause it's very different
and that doesn't mean that autotune yeah
(32:38):
is a bad thing not at all
I'm a big fan of it um yeah
but that's a conversation for another day
we don't need to get into that
cause otherwise
we'll still be here in three hours from now
but um
I do think that it's important that we understand
that what we're hearing
every day is not what's coming out of somebody's mouth
and we can't compare that
(32:59):
like sometimes people are like
I wanna make this sound fuller and bigger and I'm like
you can't like yeah
it's like it's physically not possible
exactly that's what
you know all these plug ins are for
like they'll they'll do that for you
yes and also
a lot of times what you're hearing in recorded music
that's layered like you do doubles
(33:19):
and it's just like you record the same thing
like the exactly the same phrase four times
or however many times your vocal producer tells you to
and then you know
that's what makes it full
because you're hearing yourself
sing the exact same thing
four times layered on top of each other
right that's what makes it full yes
but you can't naturally you can't
(33:41):
you can't have four larynges
that'd be so cool oh my god
oh my god stacked on top of each other
and they all raise in love at the same time
and then you harmonize to yourself
it's like so cool so unfortunately
not how the human body works not yet you know
maybe some people can rock a polyphonic moment true
that's a but that's a that's a special skill
(34:01):
that is a very special skill
that's a very special skill
and often they're not harmonizing with themselves well
let me not say often in the videos I've seen okay
they're not harm they're just like they can be like
and then their whistle something it's just like
oh wow there's a really cool video of someone
it's in black and white I can't remember the title
(34:22):
but that is fascinating yeah yeah
but yeah but not necessarily you know
something we do yeah yeah
but on the topic of harmonizing with yourself yeah
exactly yeah
exactly so yeah
rock what you got you know
rock what you got yeah
and and listen to real voices yeah
and then you're like oh okay
I see and even if you go to concerts
we're going to see Beyonce tonight
(34:44):
oh my God I'm a pretty sure I I don't know
I'm not a part of her production team
but I'm pretty sure there's gonna be autotune on all
those vocals be shocked because I mean well
it's also like when you go to a concert of this size
like I went to the eras tour as well
like yeah
we're I I I mean OK
I'm different
I'm a voice teacher and a singer and like I
(35:04):
I love a raw vocal right but the audience
wants to hear what they've been hearing
their whole lives
listening to the Aerosmith or what they've been doing
listening to this album yes
so and we're looking for a lot of dancing
it's like think about Jlo
if you went to a
to a Jlo concert and she just stood there with a mic
that's not really why we're going to see Jlo
(35:24):
or like years and years ago
old early Britney we're not going to see Britney
so she can just like stand there and uh
sing to the mic
it's because we're looking for a full performance
so often that full performance will include yeah
you need a little bit of autotune
so you're not hearing like as you're doing it
you're 100% right
(35:45):
like with it that now we're not just looking at
there's so many layers to singing yes
now there's like
there's so many layers to a live performance
like the dancing and all that other stuff
yeah too right
so anyways anyways
we could go on and on forever about this yeah
starting with pitch
just trust just you're gonna be okay yes
(36:05):
you're gonna be okay and you can learn it right
like yeah
just know that you can learn it and we're here to help
Emily's here to help she's the expert and um
and uh
and don't get frustrated with yourself
be patient have Grace
have Grace and you can you can do it
and you can probably do it faster than you think
you can if
(36:25):
but don't rush yourself if you go slowly
you'll progress exactly
if you think
I'm gonna take an hour on this instead of 10 minutes
you'll probably do it in fewer weeks
you know yes
in that hole you know yeah
yeah yeah
I love that so yeah
pitch is not everything mm hmm
but you can learn it yeah
no matter how bad you think you are a bitch
(36:47):
yeah and stop calling yourself bad or good
it's not moral hmm
it's not moral
that's actually someone said that in in grad school
they were we were talking about something and they said
singing is not a moral event
it's not you're not a good person if you can sing
and you're not a bad person if you can't
if you you know
think that you can't that does it's
(37:08):
it's a skill it's a thing to do yeah
and as soon as you start removing that
well then it breaks down yeah yeah
a lot of things but yeah
then you can really focus on
I'm gonna learn this new skill yeah
I love that thank you so much Emily
of course thanks for having me
no of course
anytime anytime
I always love having you on
(37:28):
so much knowledge in your beautiful brain
I love it and um
I actually oh my gosh
this is years ago
I created a little ear training series on YouTube
so I'll link to it it's a
it's unlisted cause I was like
yeah this is not like that great
but then a lot of people were like
do you have something on this
I'm like I guess I have it
(37:48):
so I never took it down um
so if you wanted a little
little extra help with like matching pitch
you know if you're like
I just really cannot get the
the right notes I created a little series
I'll link to it so you can check that out
if you want to take it further
and you're like no
like I'm really serious about this book
a session with us
so that we can get you working with Emily
and she's gonna be patient with you
(38:11):
encouraging you comforting you
and yeah just helping you actually get there because
you know if you have this joy for singing
do it yeah
do it and you know
learn how to match the pitches
you can learn it we got you covered
yeah I love it absolutely
thank you so much yeah
thank you Alrighty guys
we'll catch you in the next one bye bye
really gets me gets me going haha
yeah it's just discussion honestly
I find it quite heartbreaking
yeah me too
because it's you most likely not what's happening yeah
it's you most likely not what's happening
but somebody told you that
or you're telling yourself that
that's sometimes also the case
yes and I'm like no
you're just if you're telling it yourself that
then you're using it as an excuse
(00:20):
yeah and we're a defense
a defense a defense yeah
I like that
if you wanna learn it you can learn it
absolutely
and that doesn't mean it's not gonna be challenging
and that's okay like
and it might take a bit
like it might take a couple weeks
months it's not supposed to be easy yeah
it's gonna take months learning
science says it's gonna take at least six weeks
(00:41):
to learn the first stage of something new
hey voxar and welcome to from singer to artist
I'm Lara Chapman award winning singer and songwriter
turned viral vocal coach and the host of this show
(01:02):
at Voxar Studios
we help singers from all over the world
level up their voices
by teaching them the three fundamental skills
all singers need technique
awareness and artistry whether you're looking to go pro
or just develop your voice for fun
my team and I are here to help
check the link in the description
to book your first session
or grab some of our other resources Alrighty
(01:22):
are you ready let's get started
today
we are coming to you from our little New York studio
I mean it's not ours
but we're running it out but you know
close enough together with Coach Emily hey hello
hello
you are joining me for a very important conversation
about pitch mmm hmm
pitch in singing it's just
(01:43):
it's so interesting I feel like pitch has always been
like a conversation that's been like happening um
in my journey as a singer
as a vocal coach and all of the above
but recently I feel like it's showing up a lot
yes and same
you know
like with the whole like autotune conversation and
(02:03):
you know like people saying you
if you have to use autotune
you can't sing and like oh
but there's like there's so many nuances to all of this
like oh my God yeah
so this is why I wanted to talk with you about pitch
because every time we have somebody
that comes across our studio
that's like okay
we we
we need to we need to work on pitch a little bit
make sure that the notes are mostly there
(02:26):
um I sent them to you
cause for whatever reason
I don't know how you do it
but you work with them for a couple months
and it's like not even an issue anymore
and I'm like how did you do this hahaha
so I'm very glad to have you here in the studio today
yes I'm really happy to talk about it
because it's something like I
I was thinking I wanna start out with just like
(02:48):
entering the conversation of like
pitch is not a moral
being on pitch is not a moral event
I feel like
a lot of people put a lot of pressure on themselves
especially people who um
are challenged with like hearing pitch
and then making that connection to singing
the same pitch
matching pitch yeah
it's something that's been
like you said
it's been showing up a lot lately and I don't know
(03:09):
I don't know why but um
or I don't know why it's been showing up
but yeah that I think there are a couple
a couple routes to go down
but the first thing I wanna say is that it is not
you're not a bad person or a bad singer
if you struggle to match pitch
it is so much harder
than what everybody makes it seem to be yes
(03:31):
matching pitch
like I am consistently flat in my belt range
like belt mix range uh
but for me it's not like
it's not a pitch issue it's a tension issue usually
and that gets into the next thing of what's where
what's the source yeah
you know why
why are you not matching pitch
is it because you genuinely can't hear it
(03:52):
is it um
because there's a mind muscle connection
that has never been worked on before
I think uh
it also or is it tension
is it air flow there are so many things that can
there's so many things that are
just obstacles in your way yeah
and that's just
or is it ear training and you actually can't hear it
yeah exactly yeah
is it just ear training that was
(04:12):
that was for me the longest time the
the problem like in my belt because I was so loud yeah
cause I had no control over my volume in my belt
I couldn't hear yeah
when I was on or off pitch uh
or just like slightly under is
is usually what what would happen
and even today it sometimes still happens
and I'm like my voice teacher
when I'm working with him and he's like
(04:33):
hmm
go go up
just a little the little finger right
that's like up up up
and I'm like I literally can't hear that
I think you're lying to me
I think I am perfectly on pitch
he's like
you're 5% under and I'm like
I can't hear that what the heck
it's it's so
cause there's you know
like you can be quote unquote on pitch
(04:54):
but you can also be in the center of the pitch
yes and like there's like oh
it's nuance yeah
there's so much nuance to it yeah
especially if you're
if you've ever had this experience where you're here
you hear yourself and you're like
I think I'm flat
and then you play the note and you're on the note yeah
but something's still off
that's like when you're like misaligned
(05:15):
you know you're not quite in the center of your pitch
yes yes yes
oh my gosh
and then sometimes we have students that come like
when they do a first time lesson with me
and they like when you book a lesson
you you fill out a little questionnaire
and I'm asking you like you know
what do you feel like you need to work on
what's keeping you from achieving your goals
and then sometimes people say like yeah
like my pitch isn't that great
and I'm like oh okay
(05:36):
well we'll see
and then they sing and I'm like
yeah what's your problem with pitch
like your pitch is great
like when you're when you're singing live
you're never gonna be 100% on pitch
and it's just not the reality
boring to as a live performer yeah
if you're like yeah
yeah yeah
like oh yeah
sure it sounds nice
but yeah it's more interesting to hear yeah yeah yeah
(05:58):
you know
like that's a more fun thing to listen to and to sing
yeah yes
yes there's so there's a lot of nuance to it so
but at the end of the day
uh yes
pitch is just one part of it
there's also your tone and the storytelling
the emotion like all of all of that other stuff too
pitch is just one part of it yes
but or and if the pitch isn't there
(06:21):
and we're like a little bit all over the board
then I kind of think that
all of the other stuff that you can do
doesn't really matter because we can't hear it
because we we're like
is this off pitch mm hmm right
absolutely so okay
where do we start this whole conversation around pitch
here's the exercise I use to start with
(06:41):
everyone I notice
or has mentioned struggles with pitch okay
so what I have them do is just like
sometimes I have them close their eyes and I will yeah
so first it's just like get
get in your get out of yes environment right
get out of the fear of it um
and I just kind of test the mind
muscle connection part of it
(07:03):
so I say
I'm gonna play these two notes usually it's a hmm
right and I'll play the two notes and I say alright
I want you to hear them hum them in your head
take a second and then do it
mm hmm
and often very
very often that solves the problem wow
(07:25):
that solves it
because they're so stressed out about getting the note
right that they're not actually taking in the notes
as information yeah
and so it's like especially if you're like
I if you feel like
you should really struggle in exercises
but you're pretty much fine in songs for the most part
that's probably where you're sitting
and that's also a a gauge for me of if they do that
(07:48):
and then they're really far off
then I'm then I start problem solving
yeah trying to figure out
you know what's the next step
are we at the top of their range
and they're just slightly under
and it's like oh
your voice doesn't know how to
work through these challenges
at the top of your range or bottom of your range
or is it your training that's yeah
usually where I start okay
(08:10):
figuring that out okay
the closing your eyes thing
that you mentioned at the very beginning
yes um
it it's almost like you're removing one of the senses
yeah so you can focus more on the hearing sense
yeah and yeah
it's also a mental thing too
yeah no
for sure I love that that's that's a very
(08:32):
a very good like
little trick to just kind of like center yourself again
be like hold on and also giving yourself the time right
like hearing it humming it in your head
taking a moment right
and then doing it I usually
like
when I'm working with a singer in a first time lesson
and they're struggling with pitch
that's usually what I do with them so it's
it's good for me to see like okay
(08:52):
I'm doing the right things I'm doing the right things
yes yes yes well
and then that also is like
if they hum it in their head
and it's not the pictures that
and then they sing
something that is not the pictures that they
that you played and they don't know that
or the singer doesn't know that
then that's that's where you know okay
this is ear training okay
this is ear training and sometimes
(09:14):
it can take
a little bit of time to figure out the best approach
with that student
because some people work really well with slides
some people
slides just totally throw out their target notes
or uh
some people work in small
I often will work on like a do re mi re do situation
okay very small um
and staccato coordination exercises
(09:37):
mixed with pitch matching to teach your body
when I hear this I do this hmm yeah
can you give us an example for that
yeah
an example would be if I want you to match ah
and can you sing a random note as if that's
as if you need ear training ah
(09:59):
it's just harmonizing to it hahaha well
that's also that's
we can talk about that later but um hahaha
but um so what I'll ask there is
did you feel like that was right on the
note below or above
well that was above yeah I I know that but yeah
and so and I will say often
(10:20):
they'll either be in the right direction
or think they're close to the note
so because it was above I said okay
let's take that note and let's just slide down
we did ah
ah ah ah
nice we'll do that three or four more times
usually four four is the magic learning number
so we'll do that four times and then we'll do ah ah ah
(10:42):
ah ah ah
ah ah
and keep doing that
and then eventually we'll cut the slide
and we'll just do that ah
ah ah
that first one was flat haha
yeah yeah exactly
(11:03):
so we start there and then
what I always think is really important
in these pitch lessons after about 15 minutes
sometimes 20 if like we're both really in it yeah
about 15 minutes we just we gotta go do something else
yeah we gotta do something else
especially if it is a challenging ear training session
because who's you're not gonna get the notes right
(11:24):
if you feel like you aren't doing a great job yeah
you know and then you're in the frustration
and then that just makes it worse
exactly so then we switch to something
and even if the entire song is off pitch
maybe we'll work on pitch a little bit
we work on something else
because there's probably something else going on
with the voice too
yes you know
like there was one student
we worked on pitch a lot
(11:45):
and then we would go to the song and we probably
we mostly just worked on tension in the song and um
artistry and other things that once the pitch is where
is where we want it
those things will kind of be worked out
hmm and so not to just drill in unhelpful habits
but just to give you a break
cause you need to enjoy it at the end of the day
(12:07):
so here's this is bringing up a funny
a funny story uh
so I was in the studio at home coaching the singer
Danielle I did a lesson with her
yeah years ago
and so we recorded a session and we
we posted it on on
like on all the platforms
and then there were people saying like that
(12:27):
I don't know at all me as the vocal coach
what I am talking about
because she was struggling with pitch
and we were not just the entire hour long
talking about pitch
we were talking about other things too
and at one point at more than one point
yeah
but there's a specific point that we're talking about
where I said nailed it
that was great the pitch was off
(12:48):
but what I asked her to do
she did yes
right right
and she did exactly what I asked her to do
there just the pitch wasn't quite right
yep and I said
I said nailed it
and then the
some of the people in the comments were like
you're a terrible teacher
you're not being truthful with this student
you're you're setting wrong expectations
like and they were like
(13:09):
nothing against you Daniel
you're doing a great job but like
you really need to work with someone like
who knows what they're talking about
and I'm like that's insane
I am not pretending that I know everything
I definitely do not and I have a lot to learn
I totally understand that
but pitch isn't everything yes
pitch is not everything and if you make it everything
that's where you start hating singing
(13:30):
exactly especially if it's a
it is a very hard
it's very hard to learn a motor skill
like it is so hard to do that mind muscle connection
it's also very hard to be an adult
and learn how to do something from step 0 yeah
for the first time
when you're very proficient at other things
(13:50):
so I think that that that's the approach that I
it's a very similar to the approach that I take of like
pitch isn't everything
and great if you can sing on pitch
but you're going ugh
like yeah
the the it's okay if you're on pitch yeah
yeah yeah yeah
there's nuance to it there's yes
of course and yeah
you don't wanna keep drilling something and then yeah
(14:13):
you lose the joy that makes no sense
that's what I was trying to do in that session too
and then you know
I mean haters gonna be hating yeah
you always find something haha
of course to bitch about and like that's totally fine
but at that point
like I just wanted to make sure that you know
like
Danielle is not getting hurt in the process of this
because that's not fair yeah
not at all so anyways pitches and everything and yeah
(14:34):
yeah okay
so I remember you were working with a singer from LA
originally from Spain
but moved to LA originally speaking Spanish
English
second language and he was struggling with pitch
and then three months later
like I sent him to you and then three months later
(14:56):
he was singing a song in Spanish with me
he was doing a song in English with you
he was doing a song in Spanish and nailed it
like 90% of the time was there compared to before
it was a little bit all over the place and this
and I remember in that session
it's like he went he actually went a little bit sharp
so instead of just constantly being under
(15:17):
he actually went we found so much range expansion
I think we mostly did tension work
and he was one of my first students with you as well
yes and one of my first students in general um
and we did a lot of speech
that's actually my next step is speech like work
ah you know
speaking to singing
just getting used to what singing is yeah um
(15:40):
speaking to singing we uh
untangled we de detangled um
tongue and jaw decoupled them
mm hmm then we realized oh
your range goes way way up
uh huh um
I also you know
I he mentioned something he was like
oh I have this song it's in Spanish though
I'm like do a song in Spanish yeah
why not totally do a song in Spanish
(16:03):
I've worked with people who've done in
songs in a bunch of different languages
that I don't know and I said
what I can help you with is the technique
what I can help you with is like
pronounce pronunciation if articulations
that's a little different yeah
but like with how you pronounce it
you know like I
I know what I know
and I'm not gonna pretend that I don't yeah
when it comes to yeah I really have no
no experience in but um yeah
(16:24):
it was uh he also was a really
he was a great practitioner nice yeah
that helps that helps a lot
he'd be like oh
I did all this this week um
but yeah the speech like singing
we also went down into his chest foot
he came in singing like a Selena Gomez song
(16:45):
that was way with me he did like the weekend oh
it was the weekend featuring Ariana Grande I can
I connected the weekend and Selena Gomez
cause they dated that one time
that was my oh fair
it was the weekend featuring Ariana Grande
it was that same song yeah
that sounds about right yeah
and it was really high this was years ago
yeah yeah
this was this was three almost three years ago
yeah yeah
and it was really high and I was like
(17:07):
why don't we bulk up your chest voice a little bit
that's also like getting a gauge of what their range is
is the pitch matching the pitch
the problem with the pitch matching was that
it was way too high and so
his body just did not know how to coordinate up there
so we were like so I was like
let's learn how to coordinate down here
uh huh let's learn those motor skills down here
(17:27):
and then we can make our way up
and then yeah
and then we just unlocked something with that
wow and it was a big
big difference
so it sounds like for him it was a little bit more uh
vocal training yes
then like ear training yes
yeah but I
when you're singing something that is
outside of what your voice is comfortable doing
(17:49):
for the moment I'll say um
it can be very challenging
like the two can be hard to tell the difference between
hmm okay
like it wasn't until we discovered like
let's go into this chest voice
and the pitch matching was not a problem anymore
OK that yeah
do you think singing in his language
also made a difference absolutely
(18:10):
why absolutely
I think it was less to think about uh huh
I think at I think at that stage in his training
it was very helpful
he also I think he liked the song more okay
I think he wanted to sing
because Ariana Grande's awesome yeah
you wanna sing that other song yeah
and I think he genuinely connected to I I again
(18:30):
it was years ago
I can't remember the the song in Spanish
but he genuinely connected to that one more yeah okay
cool yeah
so if you're struggling with one song
maybe try something else
try something totally different
I think also helps this it's also
getting out of the box
of what you think you should be doing or oh
I really want to sing this type of song
(18:50):
even though it's totally uncomfortable for me yeah
try something else
doesn't mean we have to say no to these
and never to these but just try something
totally in the opposite direction
try something really low
like even I I know that my my prima voce is yeah
haha sweet spot in your voice yeah
(19:11):
way up here right
like in belting and in head voice
like that's kind of where I feel very comfortable
and I like the sound
but that does not mean I still train my oh oh
like oh
and it sounds so easy cause it is
and I'm like get in chest voice
get in chest voice yeah
(19:32):
fair enough okay
okay
okay I wanna know your opinion on being tone deaf
because I actually just two days ago
somebody sent me an email and was like
my choir director told me I'm tone deaf
and this person is approaching seventy right
and and so it's like I'm taking voice lessons
(19:53):
like nothing's helping I don't know what I'm doing um
but I now started like speaking songs instead of like
singing them and then I listened to him do that
he sent me like a YouTube video and what not
so I listened to it and his rhythm
like his timing his groove
like all of that even though he was just speaking
(20:14):
it was so spot on yeah
that I have a really hard time believing that
he has no sense for pitch
yeah I just don't believe it
I
tone deaf is hard because it technically exists
and people who are tone deaf
tend to not like The Sound of music
(20:35):
hmm not the musical
maybe the musical too but yeah
the actual sound of music
they don't like listening to it
there's something about
about music that just doesn't connect
yeah um
so it's not impossible it is likely not the case
and it was likely thrown at you as an insult
which is the worst part I'm
it's I mean
maybe it's not the worst part
(20:55):
but it's of so I think it's pretty
it's pretty bad the amount of people who were like
I'm toned up I've been told I'm toned up
I was put even I even have like a
like someone in my family who was like
I was told to to mouth the lyrics in the choir yes
so many people and it's like just foster them and yes
connect yourself to a love of music
(21:16):
but yeah tone deafness is
you are you're probably not tone deaf
you're probably not tone deaf
yeah
well I always say that
if you can identify
when somebody else is singing off pitch yeah
you're not tone deaf
because tone deaf people can't hear that exactly
sometimes it's difficult to hear it in your own voice
but it's much easier to hear it in somebody else yeah
(21:38):
so if you can hear that
then you're not tone deaf and you can learn it
it might take a little bit of practice
and I'm sorry that you weren't naturally born
you know with the skill of matching pitch perfectly
you know but it's still something you can learn
and a lot of your students are proof of that
yeah I
I think and it's just
it makes me happy to see people who like
(21:58):
no longer have to struggle with what I
I you know
I'll say with my full chest
that's the hardest part the hardest
if you have to if
if you have to learn how to match pitch
that's probably the hardest part of singing yeah
I would agree with that and
and that's and it's okay if that's just how you
you know connect with music
there's probably some sort of again
(22:20):
like an obstacle there
and it's probably a mental obstacle
or it's just the mind muscle connection
uh huh it's the same thing
have you ever watched someone dance
who isn't very coordinated
and is just like flinging their body around
has no idea of spatial awareness yeah
like I always love watching those videos
like a Zumba class
where there's always one person just like
(22:40):
going in the opposite direction of where everybody
else is going I'm like
she's living her life exactly
let's go and she's having the time of her life yeah
so much fun yes
so it's it's crazy how there is so much judgment
when it comes to singing with that yes
like I feel like a lot of people joke that like oh
I'm not a dancer hahaha
but like it feels embarrassing to not to be like
(23:02):
oh I can't match pitch
you know yeah
or they joke like oh
I can't sing duh duh duh
you know and it's like
you probably can yeah
that's also my thing you probably can sing yeah
yeah you can at least learn to get better at it too
yes right
you can you can learn
I I was talking to someone
I was like
not everyone is gonna be an Olympian and that's okay
yeah you know
you can be phenomenal at whatever sport
(23:25):
now we're getting to sports stuff yeah
yeah you can be phenomenal at swimming
but that doesn't mean you're gonna be an Olympian
and that's okay like a lot of these Olympians were
they were born and then they Learned how to swim
and then somehow they always did it
then they always did it perfectly or not perfectly
but wonderfully uh huh
(23:45):
to the point of like recognition competition
whatever yeah right
like I know for me I am fortunate to you know
I was born singing all the time
you know uh
so that makes a lot of things easier
I was not born dancing I took dance
I've taken a lot of dance classes in my life
I'm coordinated my
I can't kick my face but it's
(24:06):
I also can like recognize like these are
I know what my skills are
I know that if you cast me as the lead in your musical
and you say here's a dance break
I'll be just fine uh huh
and that means I'm not going for a course line
and that's okay yeah
so right so it's like when it comes to singing
if if your range is down here
(24:27):
and you're always speaking here
and then you sing and then
or and then you're
you're speaking and then you're like
oh I brought in finally 29 you know
like that pretend I belted
you know yeah
and you bring that in and you're like
I suck it's like
no no no
no me
you're talking about me you're not a soprano Olympian
you know yeah
(24:48):
you can be an Alto Olympian
you can do you know
but it's yeah
it's a whole it's a whole thing
tone deafness really gets me
gets me going haha
yeah it's just discussion honestly
I find it quite heartbreaking
yeah me too
because it's you most likely not what's happening yeah
but somebody told you that
or you're telling yourself that
that's sometimes also the case
yes and I'm like
(25:09):
no you're just
if you're telling it yourself that
then you're using it as an excuse
yeah and we're a defense
a defense a defense
yeah I like that
if you wanna learn it you can learn it
absolutely
and that doesn't mean it's not gonna be challenging
and that's okay like
and it might take a bit
like it might take a couple weeks months
it's not supposed to be easy
yeah it's gonna take months
(25:30):
learning science says
it's gonna take at least six weeks
to learn the first stage of something new
right loosely yeah
um so if after 7 weeks
you're like ugh
I cannot get it just give it some time
yeah give yourself Grace
(25:50):
cause the more frustrated you get with yourself
the harder it's gonna be it's like
it's like when people say like
I had steam coming out of my ears
like I I start seeing red
it's like you cannot focus on what's actually happening
no you cannot take things in as information
that's the biggest thing taking notes in as information
and that's why you only work on pitch for 15 minutes
and then you do something else
and then you do something else
because there are so many other things to work it
(26:13):
to work on in general but also to enjoy about music
yeah like that's
that's actually I really do enjoy working with people
who are learning how to match pitch
because I feel like I have
I'm presented with an opportunity to help someone
love music
regardless of where they sit with it yeah
and I I feel like that's
(26:35):
I think that's also what helps because I'm so like
let's do this yes
you know I'm so into it
like I try to bring energy that isn't like
that was wrong you know yeah
and I do believe that
it takes a special person for that
it's I do have a lot of patience
yes hahaha
and also you know
just like someone who's very encouraging
(26:57):
uh huh understanding and like
let's try that again yeah
you know it's like just no pressure right
and I feel like with a lot of um
a lot of other like vocal coaches out there
they're like this is
this is the last thing I wanna do yeah
teach you how to match pitch
like I wanna do some more advanced stuff yeah
but then
you know then that
(27:17):
they're just not the right person to teach
the specific skill
and that's fine you know
like I that could be a whole other conversation
because you work with phenomenal students
does not automatically make you a phenomenal teacher
I wasn't gonna say anything
but we cannot take credit for somebody else's success
(27:39):
that's just not how it works
I actually remember uh
being in high school
and I had started working with someone
and I was talking to someone else who's at
who I did educational theater with
and I was like this person like has helped me so
so much and this the the
you know uh
person I was talking to was like
(28:00):
you started
you started working with this person with that voice
yeah
you that voice did not show up
when you started working with them
so just know that you did that yeah
you know yeah
and and I carry that with me as a singer
but also as a teacher of like
you know when when people I mean it's
(28:21):
it's a very nice thing to say when people like
Emily did everything yeah
yeah or like Larson made and like she did everything
yeah and even you've said it too
it's like well
I'm glad that I always say my
I'm glad that my teaching
style works with your learning style
mm hmm you know
because that's really big
but yeah that's how we moved forward
not because I'm magical no no no
you know but also because they put in the work right
(28:42):
they put in the work yeah
we can just give them the tools
and then they put in the work to
to see progress but absolutely
you know if you work with somebody for three weeks
and then I like now I'm amazing
I'm like you probably already were like yeah
you probably your tongue was tight hahaha
oh my gosh that's hilarious
yeah right yeah
but yeah but uh
on the conversation of pitch
like it's it all ties to what we're saying of like
(29:05):
you just believe that you can get there
obviously there are more steps than that
but that's the first one yeah
just like take take the negative self talk out of it
the judgment out of it and the judgment out of it
and be like I'm learning a skill
learning a skill for the first time
go so slow go slower than you think you should be going
(29:25):
because it's so hard to slow down
like in a in a world of instant gratification
oh yeah it is so hard to slow down
but I always say that you have to slow down to speed up
that's how you're going to make faster progress
and I'm telling that to myself too
oh yeah me too
all the things I I've said today yeah
I say to myself and I'm on my way to believing them
you know yes
like yes
(29:46):
but absolutely yeah
slow down to speed up
you're learning something brand new for the like
you probably can't even think of a time
where you've Learned something total
a physical function for the very first time
you don't remember learning how to walk
exactly right exactly
even like picking up pickleball
like you you can do this
(30:07):
you probably can already do
do this swinging motion with your arms now
you know your
your fine tuning it like yeah
with this we're learning how to coordinate muscles that
if you're working on pitch
have never coordinated in this way before yeah
I say that a lot about like
when people have a lot of tension and that
that makes them feel bad I'm like
we're telling all these muscles
(30:27):
that were designed to eat
to do the exact opposite relax the constrictors
don't swallow put the tongue forward
don't bring the food back yeah
release the jaw don't bite down on the food
you know like that was that's the whole point yeah
of other than you know
making beautiful
beautiful sounds of this whole mechanism
so you know
it's easier said than done
(30:48):
mm hmm you know
but have Grace for yourself because you're just
you're training muscles
and if we could just tell our muscles what to do
that would be awesome yeah
but if we could I would have my splits yeah yes
tell me about it I could never do it
I could never do the splits
oh my gosh okay
well
I I find this this whole conversation very fascinating
(31:09):
yeah and also very much like okay
I'm gonna be okay yeah
you know yeah
I don't know the word for that
but just like comforted a little bit comforted yeah
yeah I could only think of calming
but I'm like that's not quite the right word yeah
comforting comforted and the fact that like you're like
you're gonna be OK
it's OK if you don't match the pitch that you're
(31:30):
that you think you're supposed to be like matching yeah
you will yeah you'll be able to do it well
and then there's the whole conversation with like
people who like what I was telling
like
what I was saying in the beginning of this was like
you know sometimes people say I'm struggling with pitch
and then I hear them and I'm like
you're not struggling with pitch at all right
so I just think
understanding that there are so many layers to singing
(31:53):
and that pitch is just a small part of that yeah
and that when you are singing live
you're probably
not going to be 100% of the time on pitch
because like
we're so used to hearing edited vocals now yes yes
like even on social media
everything is edited everything's edited
and by the way our podcasts they're not woohoo hahaha
(32:17):
we do not add any autotune on any of the
the singers that we're working with
or not even reverb or anything
it's all just dry vocals
because I think it's important that people learn to
like that that they just get exposed to yeah
what does real singing sound like
cause it's very different
and that doesn't mean that autotune yeah
(32:38):
is a bad thing not at all
I'm a big fan of it um yeah
but that's a conversation for another day
we don't need to get into that
cause otherwise
we'll still be here in three hours from now
but um
I do think that it's important that we understand
that what we're hearing
every day is not what's coming out of somebody's mouth
and we can't compare that
(32:59):
like sometimes people are like
I wanna make this sound fuller and bigger and I'm like
you can't like yeah
it's like it's physically not possible
exactly that's what
you know all these plug ins are for
like they'll they'll do that for you
yes and also
a lot of times what you're hearing in recorded music
that's layered like you do doubles
(33:19):
and it's just like you record the same thing
like the exactly the same phrase four times
or however many times your vocal producer tells you to
and then you know
that's what makes it full
because you're hearing yourself
sing the exact same thing
four times layered on top of each other
right that's what makes it full yes
but you can't naturally you can't
(33:41):
you can't have four larynges
that'd be so cool oh my god
oh my god stacked on top of each other
and they all raise in love at the same time
and then you harmonize to yourself
it's like so cool so unfortunately
not how the human body works not yet you know
maybe some people can rock a polyphonic moment true
that's a but that's a that's a special skill
(34:01):
that is a very special skill
that's a very special skill
and often they're not harmonizing with themselves well
let me not say often in the videos I've seen okay
they're not harm they're just like they can be like
and then their whistle something it's just like
oh wow there's a really cool video of someone
it's in black and white I can't remember the title
(34:22):
but that is fascinating yeah yeah
but yeah but not necessarily you know
something we do yeah yeah
but on the topic of harmonizing with yourself yeah
exactly yeah
exactly so yeah
rock what you got you know
rock what you got yeah
and and listen to real voices yeah
and then you're like oh okay
I see and even if you go to concerts
we're going to see Beyonce tonight
(34:44):
oh my God I'm a pretty sure I I don't know
I'm not a part of her production team
but I'm pretty sure there's gonna be autotune on all
those vocals be shocked because I mean well
it's also like when you go to a concert of this size
like I went to the eras tour as well
like yeah
we're I I I mean OK
I'm different
I'm a voice teacher and a singer and like I
(35:04):
I love a raw vocal right but the audience
wants to hear what they've been hearing
their whole lives
listening to the Aerosmith or what they've been doing
listening to this album yes
so and we're looking for a lot of dancing
it's like think about Jlo
if you went to a
to a Jlo concert and she just stood there with a mic
that's not really why we're going to see Jlo
(35:24):
or like years and years ago
old early Britney we're not going to see Britney
so she can just like stand there and uh
sing to the mic
it's because we're looking for a full performance
so often that full performance will include yeah
you need a little bit of autotune
so you're not hearing like as you're doing it
you're 100% right
(35:45):
like with it that now we're not just looking at
there's so many layers to singing yes
now there's like
there's so many layers to a live performance
like the dancing and all that other stuff
yeah too right
so anyways anyways
we could go on and on forever about this yeah
starting with pitch
just trust just you're gonna be okay yes
(36:05):
you're gonna be okay and you can learn it right
like yeah
just know that you can learn it and we're here to help
Emily's here to help she's the expert and um
and uh
and don't get frustrated with yourself
be patient have Grace
have Grace and you can you can do it
and you can probably do it faster than you think
you can if
(36:25):
but don't rush yourself if you go slowly
you'll progress exactly
if you think
I'm gonna take an hour on this instead of 10 minutes
you'll probably do it in fewer weeks
you know yes
in that hole you know yeah
yeah yeah
I love that so yeah
pitch is not everything mm hmm
but you can learn it yeah
no matter how bad you think you are a bitch
(36:47):
yeah and stop calling yourself bad or good
it's not moral hmm
it's not moral
that's actually someone said that in in grad school
they were we were talking about something and they said
singing is not a moral event
it's not you're not a good person if you can sing
and you're not a bad person if you can't
if you you know
think that you can't that does it's
(37:08):
it's a skill it's a thing to do yeah
and as soon as you start removing that
well then it breaks down yeah yeah
a lot of things but yeah
then you can really focus on
I'm gonna learn this new skill yeah
I love that thank you so much Emily
of course thanks for having me
no of course
anytime anytime
I always love having you on
(37:28):
so much knowledge in your beautiful brain
I love it and um
I actually oh my gosh
this is years ago
I created a little ear training series on YouTube
so I'll link to it it's a
it's unlisted cause I was like
yeah this is not like that great
but then a lot of people were like
do you have something on this
I'm like I guess I have it
(37:48):
so I never took it down um
so if you wanted a little
little extra help with like matching pitch
you know if you're like
I just really cannot get the
the right notes I created a little series
I'll link to it so you can check that out
if you want to take it further
and you're like no
like I'm really serious about this book
a session with us
so that we can get you working with Emily
and she's gonna be patient with you
(38:11):
encouraging you comforting you
and yeah just helping you actually get there because
you know if you have this joy for singing
do it yeah
do it and you know
learn how to match the pitches
you can learn it we got you covered
yeah I love it absolutely
thank you so much yeah
thank you Alrighty guys
we'll catch you in the next one bye bye
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