Basketball Culture, Competition, and Content Creation with D’Vontay Friga

In this episode, Coach Ross, Combo, and special guest D’Vontay Friga dive deep into the evolution of one-on-one basketball and the rise of the Next Chapter league. Friga shares his journey from building a personal brand to creating a competitive space for players to showcase their skills, highlighting the importance of innovation in basketball and content creation. The crew debates which cities produce the best hoopers, discuss the role of short-form and long-form content, and analyze social media strategies used by top creators like Gary Vee. Tune in for insightful takes on basketball culture, digital storytelling, and the future of one-on-one leagues.

 

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Episode Transcript

(01:00:00):
Devante, welcome to the Good Drill Pod.
We have Ross here.
Um, how are things, man?
How are you?
Great, man.
I'm good.
I'm, uh, getting ready for, I'm
actually going down to Florida soon.
I live in Ohio, but I go back and
forth a lot cause my dad lives down.
I have other family down there, my
brothers, you know, um, we just got them
filming a bunch, so I'm going to go down

(01:00:21):
there and kind of take a little bit of a
break, so I'm excited.
I love going down.
We're all about skill development here,
getting better as a basketball player.
So how has your mindset, how has your
mindset changed from your traditional
basketball career to what you're
doing today in terms of getting better
as a basketball player?
Wow.
That's a great question.
You already asked the great questions, Devante.

(01:00:44):
All right.
Um, the traditional basketball and
like growing up playing in the, uh, you
know, what's it called, uh, uh, not
a professional setting, but, uh, uh,
organized basketball rather, um, I feel
like you always kind of training for the
same things, training, training for more like team stuff.
And I feel like now with social media,

(01:01:06):
it's more, it's for me personally, less
like team motivated, team
oriented, more one B one more like ISO.
I got to do something at the park,
make a show, do, you know, put on a
small or whatever.
Um, so training is really like free in a way.
I feel like it was so structured at
first and like, you know, I'm still.

(01:01:27):
Still on like somewhat of a schedule
and doing certain things, certain drills,
but it's not like very clean cut
every single day, very similar things.
Um, even like the shot selection when I'm
training, you know, I'm taking crazy shots
cause we're working on three, dribble, four, dribble stuff.
And so yeah, just overall, the

(01:01:48):
training aspect has immensely been different.
That's a phenomenal question.
I don't think anybody's ever asked me that question.
But do you, do you think that.
So some of the things that you think that
some of the things that you're doing now
would have benefited you back then,
even though it seems like you should be

(01:02:08):
structured and in your training, when
you're playing on a structured team,
whether that's college or high
school, even AU, but a structured team.
Do you think that some of the less, some
of the, uh, different variations of what
you're doing now would have helped you or not, not really?
Yeah, I'm, I'm sure of it.

(01:02:28):
I feel like, um, maybe it's just all
I really knew growing up, like certain
things being trained by and whatnot.
And I don't know, it's like with
anything, like the more you grow, the more you get
a little bit of it.
So I feel like looking back at it,
yeah, like for sure there's something that I
think I could have done that I do
now, but things, it's just so different.

(01:02:51):
It's so different right now.
I guess that's maybe why I keep going
back to that question being good, because I
really haven't thought about some of the
things that over time that I've done or
changed in my basketball training lifestyle.
How much better do you feel you are
now than when you were a college player?
I actually feel way more confident, you

(01:03:14):
know, in college, I feel like I was fighting
for my confidence on the court all
the time, because I started off as a JV
basketball player at a D three level.
So that already like took my confidence away.
I already knew, you know, everybody
wants to go D one when they're in high school
and be able to post that blessed and
received, receive blah, blah, blah posts.
You know, we always see it.
It's such a cliche thing, but it's a
cool, it's a cool post for a high school
basketball player.

(01:03:34):
So when I went D three, I feel
like, oh man, I've failed it away.
And then when I went, I was on the JV
team, I was like, man, my confidence is shot.
So I feel like, like I said, just
fighting for that confidence and, uh, really
attest a lot of my teammates for helping
me gain that over the years, but in the
social media space, it being like creating

(01:03:55):
my own thing and this own flow, like I've
been able to build my confidence
without having the coaches and all that stuff.
So it is completely different,
but I think it is confidence driven.
I think I'm a lot better now,
obviously, but that's like, I haven't stopped
playing basketball ever since I was done with college.
Most people that are playing at
that level, you know, they're, they're

(01:04:16):
really done playing basketball.
So I am really grateful to
still be able to play continually.
And I think just playing over the course
of that time is like, helped me get a lot
better, just like anybody else,
you know, training, whooping a lot.
Right.
But I feel the same way if I, there's
definitely things that are different

(01:04:36):
about playing on a, especially like
a college team that are so different
than anywhere else, it's like you,
you're playing with the same guys every single
day and over time there are relationships and
understandings and hierarchy of
roles that happen because you're with
the same people every single day for hours.

(01:04:59):
You're maybe living with them.
You're like, everybody kind of gets
a flow of like, okay, you know what?
This might be the smart one, but
he, he doesn't get off the bench.
This one might be like, he's good.
He's a good shooter.
If he gets hot, he's going to get the ball.
And this guy is labeling.
They start labeling.
Yeah.
They start labeling and it happens automatically.
And, and the, the challenge is it gets,

(01:05:20):
I feel like it gets like stuck with you
that label and it's like, how do you break free of that?
You hear stories all the time of
players that are really good in AAU, but then
not good on high school teams.
I feel like it's, there has to be
kind of like, what is the strategy
to overcome that label?
And if you want to, if that's something
that you want to do, you want to expand

(01:05:40):
your role, you want to get better, you
want to be a bigger part of your team.
That's something that, that is
definitely different now for me than back then.
And there would have to be some
type of strategy going into it.
Um, can you just walk us through just
real quick, because I don't have a big
insight either is just growing up
high school and then how you, how you got

(01:06:02):
into college, how you got into what
you're doing now with the takeover stuff
and all that.
Yeah.
And so I grew up in like a small city.
Then Cuyahoga falls, Cuyahoga falls, Ohio.
It's really close to Akron, Ohio.
Um, and I, you know, I was always into basketball.

(01:06:23):
So I get a basketball around then a lot.
I really wanted to play in college,
whatever you guys just heard, you know,
I really want to play D one ended up,
uh, I was all right for my team, whatever,
you know, but I still loved basketball and
I knew I wanted to play at the next level.
So I was constantly reaching out to
schools, like setting my tapes and stuff,
just really trying to put my name out
there because I knew I wanted to play

(01:06:44):
college basketball and I went to this
summer camp at the university of Mount
union, a small school in Alliance,
Ohio, small D three school, really known for
football, they've won a lot of national championships.
At the D three level for football,
um, small school, 2,500 students, maybe.
And, uh, I played really well at the

(01:07:05):
summer camp, really liked the campus
coach was like, basically, you know,
recruiting me for a couple of games,
but, um, ended up going to Mount.
Uh, like I said, JV freshman year.
And then kind of, uh, worked my way up a little bit.
There were two people that got
injured at the end of my freshman year.
And there was a spot that kind
of opened up on the varsity squad.

(01:07:27):
I was playing really good on the JV team.
I was averaging like a triple
double for like seven straight games.
And it was just, it was a perfect
moment, you know, and I went in, I played very
well, and then I played the next like six
games that were left in the rest of that
season and then my sophomore and
junior year ended up starting for the team.
So there was like a crazy leap between

(01:07:47):
my freshman year and my sophomore year,
but I was just in the gym relentlessly.
I fell in love with it because my
teammate at the time, uh, well, my roommate,
sorry, was, uh, us the starting point guard.
And he was a freshman as well.
His name was Nathan.
He was my rival in high school, my rival all my life.
And then we ended up being teammates in college.
Crazy.
Um, but he was super motivating to me.

(01:08:08):
And, uh, I just watched him a lot.
I watched how religiously he was in the gym and watch.
I was like, okay, you know, I see
the hours being spent in the gym.
I see the outcome of it.
Uh, and so I started going to the gym a lot more too.
And at the time he was putting me on
some YouTubers like, Hey, do you know who

(01:08:29):
Casey nice that is?
Do you guys know who that is?
By the way, I've actually heard you
talk about him, but I have no idea.
Well, yeah, Casey's a vlogger in New
York city, just a really good storyteller.
And Nate Nathan put me on to his videos
and, uh, I just fell in love with that.
And I changed my major at that
time because we had an integrated
media major at the school.
So I got, it was like, if I
changed my major, I could be around

(01:08:49):
a bunch of these cameras.
I'm like, man, this dude's documented his life.
He's, you know, 36 in New York city riding skateboards.
And I have nothing to do with any of that.
And I'm interested.
I'm like, I have an interesting
life as a college basketball student.
I got to document this.
And at first I didn't know how or what
ways, you know, I didn't know the answer.
I didn't get on YouTube.
Cause I'm like, that's it got on YouTube.

(01:09:10):
Cause I was like really in love
with editing and making videos
and just the storytelling.
And I was just doing random vlogs.
I did like 70, 80 in a row daily
vlogs and, uh, nothing really hit.
I had like maybe 500 subscribers at the time.
And then I did a random video that was
day in the life of a D three basketball
player and it did like 20 K views in a couple of days.

(01:09:32):
And I was like, this is amazing.
I got to, I have to keep this narrative a little bit.
So I did another one.
It was like, how good do you have
to be in high school to go D three?
Cause it's like interesting question.
You know, it was like a six minute
video of standing in my college apartment,
like burping, like it's just like
a weird video, but it went crazy.
And I just explained like what my talent

(01:09:55):
level was in high school to make a D three
and it did like 185 K views in a couple of days.
And that's when I gained like
5,000 subscribers, 10,000 subscribers.
Wait, just, just sticking on that real quick.
I'm in my head right now.
I feel like as somebody that's
making a lot of content, we both
make a lot of content combos, make

(01:10:16):
content I watch and I'm looking and I'm seeing,
and I feel at least in my bubble,
there's such a stagnation of things.
And there's almost like people trying
to, including myself, a hundred percent
trying to repeat what works.
And I'm, and I'm thinking about what has worked.
What are the things that I've done that,
that are, that's doing well, the things

(01:10:36):
that people have resonated with the
things that other people are posting
that people are resonating with.
And I feel like my brain is
seeing that and I'm also doing that.
And, but what you're saying, it's like,
when you made that video, when you first
make content, it's like, you have no baggage.
You have no, like, you have no
baggage of like, this is my process.

(01:10:56):
This is the shit I've done.
This is like how I make content.
You have no baggage.
So it's like, you just go in.
You only know how to tell a story.
That's real.
That's the only thing you have.
Like you don't have anything else.
You don't have a fake story.
You don't have a story you used to tell.
I'm sure that video was most authentic
to yourself out of all the videos, right?
Yeah.
I actually, I've never heard it

(01:11:16):
explained better in my life than the way that you
just said it, because I feel like anytime
anybody ever asked me about maybe growing
on social media or understanding social
media, I always go back to differentiating
yourself from the crowd and
like creating that niche, you know?
And I feel like with what you're
saying, that's exactly what it was.
So yeah, I mean, that video, it clicked.

(01:11:38):
That's when I was like, okay, it makes sense.
And that's not me just being like,
oh, like I fucking figured it out.
All my videos from, sorry, sorry, sorry.
All my videos from then on out were D3
college basketball player does this day
in the life of D3 basketball player, tour
of D3, this D3 basketball player home game.
What does the inside of a division three basketball

(01:11:59):
player's cafeteria look like?
What's the day in the life, like just
doing these things that were so niche that
were still interesting enough to find out
like, oh man, like there's this narrative
around division three that never really got any credit.
So then showing the day of the life or the inside

(01:12:20):
documented life of a basketball
player at that level, I feel like kind
of made sense and it started to grow an
audience fast forward.
I was doing game day vlogs my senior
year and I did every single video and I went
from 15,000 to 105,000 by the end
of the year or the end of the season.
I started the season at 15,000 and a

(01:12:41):
couple months later at 115, 106,000 is when
the season ended, but that was 2020 COVID year.
We were number five in the nation.
We had every game documented.
We had this crazy viewership because
people were watching it as it happened in
real time.
Um, and then COVID ended our season
and we were projected to win the national

(01:13:01):
championship for D3, everything documented.
Like it was just a crazy storyline and
then heartbreaker, no closure seasons
done, that's the end of college basketball.
And that's when I went into a little, you
know, slight panic about what am I going
to do?
Cause my channel was as just
completely derived around D3 college basketball

(01:13:21):
player, blah, blah, blah.
And you can either plateau and figure it
out or, and just be done, or you can kind
of innovate and try and find that next thing.
And you guys know as creators, as well
as anybody, every few years, the algorithm
changes a little bit.
People get more interested in certain things.
And so, um, I didn't understand that yet.

(01:13:42):
This is the next thing I didn't understand.
And I feel like in different, in all
steps of social media, so far, there's
things that like just kind of click and
make sense, but so when I went down to,
um, sorry, I'm jumbling my words after
our season was ended, I moved to Florida.
And, um, uh, fast forward, I started,
I posted a park video and it did like 2

(01:14:03):
million views or 1.5 million views.
And in those five days, I went from like a hundred
thousand, 115,000 subs to like
270 K and then we were like, all
right, let's just go around and post these
bunch.
So we just did pickup basketball and mic'd up.
And then that's when the tour idea happened.
So then we went on tour.

(01:14:24):
We went on tour from Florida to LA and an RV.
We wrapped it and like, we just did
these crazy park videos and they were,
they were taken off.
And, um, you know, we did, we did that
for like two years straight just on tour.
And over the course of time, there were
a bunch of basketball players that were

(01:14:45):
really good at these, at these parks.
You know, like some people come out
and we play against them and it's like,
holy shit.
Like these people just either need
more recognition, need shine, stop playing
basketball, got into the wrong things at the wrong time.
Like people that just don't make it that
could have played pro could have played
in college, you know, um, and we started to see that.

(01:15:06):
And the more the fans watch these, the
more they're like, man, we should see so
and so go with you to this park.
And then we started the teams and blah,
blah, blah, you know, like a lot of what
it's trickled into is, uh, really like
a community, you know, online basketball
community and the YouTube space.
And I'm not the only person responsible for that.

(01:15:28):
There's so many different basketball communities.
And that's the beautiful part about
this whole online basketball culture.
Um, but yeah, now the next wave is the
next chapter, but I'm sure we'll get to that.
That is, I was trying to keep it
brief, but that's like an explanation of the
story of how everything has kind of come to so far.
Yeah.
But going back to, do you know who, um, Troy Hornbeck is?

(01:15:51):
I'm sure you do.
Yeah.
He's the road to D one kid.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
He's on the OT.
Yes.
Um, it's so it's like he did the
road to D one zero did it first.
That's the first person I saw do it zero bounds.
He did a road to D one or journey to become a division one
basketball player, whatever.

(01:16:12):
And when he did it, when zero did it,
I remember when he was doing it and I
didn't, I've never talked to him before,
but I remember when he was doing it and
it was profound when he started doing it.
And it was like, this is, I've
not, I haven't seen this yet.
And it was like that type of vibe with
it was a vlog and it was documenting and
something that he's really good at is

(01:16:33):
just like, he doesn't try to portray
something he's just like, he just
tries to say like, this is what it is.
This is what it's about.
I think similarly with Troy, but then
you see other people that try to do that
journey and because it seems like a
very, it seems very desirable if like

(01:16:53):
for somebody like me, if I was able to
do that, it seems desirable to do because
it's an automatic entrance into
authenticity in content, but there's
still people that I watch their journeys.
And it just, even though they're
on day 5,492, I still don't buy it.
There's something about it where

(01:17:13):
it still doesn't feel the same.
If you've noticed that, like, have you noticed that?
And what do you think the difference
is between something like what you did,
something that zero and Troy did
versus what other people are doing
with a journey or a vlog?
You guys, you guys are amazing at this.
I'm terrible.

(01:17:34):
I just, Osmosis.
No, I mean, like, this is like, I
feel like this is valuable conversation
for people out there that are listening
that might genuinely be like, you know,
interested in this type of stuff.
But like the meta, the meta of this
whole thing is that this question is coming
from me trying to, I'm trying to, like, that's what it is.
It's coming from a place of, I'm not,

(01:17:54):
it's not a pulled from, oh, I have to
ask this question, that question.
I want to know what you think.
Yeah.
No, I mean, I think about the
same thing because I feel like
ultimately, you know, for somebody
that might be on like day 2,500, it is.
I've always believed in the
whole like document over create.

(01:18:15):
And I feel like for them, it's more create over document.
You know, Gary V is Gary Vaynerchuk.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Always says document over create.
And I feel like there's a slight
misunderstanding with people that's like,
okay, bet I'm just going to document
everything and put out as much stuff.
But they're creating the things
that they're trying to document.
And I feel like the documentation

(01:18:35):
becomes, comes from that authenticity you get in
documenting your life, not what you
may have seen somebody else portray.
The problem with people some days or
sometimes in the social media world and
why it's hard for them to maybe grow
that authentic audience is because they see
what works for other people, like you
said, and they try and replicate it.
And it's just, it just doesn't feel like

(01:18:59):
their own, like there's, there's ways to
make it their own.
You just have to really figure it out.
And, and to answer your question, I
think for somebody out there, like
differentiate yourself from the crowd, find your niche.
Like I was saying earlier, it's
definitely not easy, but I mean, what do you think?
Honestly, I want to, I want to ask you,

(01:19:20):
you know, about the stigmas around division
three basketball better than anybody, right?
Did you feel like you were being
vulnerable when you put out that
content about D three basketball?
Like, Oh, were you skeptical about putting it out?
Were you like, maybe I shouldn't do this.
No, because like, I mean, we're already
at the D three level, you know, and I feel

(01:19:42):
like a lot of division three basketball
players, if you ask them, they understand
the talent level of the D three
levels, though, phenomenal undersized, maybe
slightly more unathletic, but like
skill development, the shooting ability.
There's different things that I feel
like the D three level works on to keep
a faster paced game, you know what I mean?

(01:20:04):
Like, obviously the size difference
in a, you know, a major division one
school in a D three school, like, I
mean, I think we see, I think we see this in
upsets, even at the D one level, right?
You see like the smaller division one
school, just playing quicker, faster,
and beating the major school sometimes.
Like they do certain things better.
Of course.
I mean, we're talking about a game

(01:20:24):
of twos and threes here, you know?
Right.
Right.
But yeah, man.
I mean, I, I honestly don't
think I was really ever worried.
Now I don't necessarily remember too much.
I would love to go back and kind of watch some of that.
I actually haven't gone back and
watch that season yet or any of that.
It's hard to go back when you're
working so much on the day to day, what you're
doing, right?

(01:20:44):
Yeah, it is hard to go back.
It's just, it's just a part of the story, bro, but I
definitely do want to go back
and watch it, but genuinely my thought
right now is just like, I don't think
that I really cared about what people
thought because it was so interesting.
And it was fun, man.
Like making these videos was fun.
And I genuinely really gave a fuck
about the production and the storytelling.

(01:21:05):
And I feel like way, I feel like people
were way more connected with the character
development that I was focused on.
Like there were teammates on my team
that people wanted to see in the next videos
and wanted to see how they performed.
It wasn't just about me, you know, it, my
channel feels like it really never feels
like it was just solely about me.
There's always been, there's always been characters.

(01:21:26):
There's always been basketball players,
but I've always been the one producing it,
you know, filming and coming up with
the ideas, like with my boys and stuff.
But, um, yeah, I don't know, man.
That's, I don't know.
I really like cinematography and production.
I feel like that had a lot to do with me
not really caring too much about people.
I could see the story.
I could see the storytelling and what

(01:21:47):
you do, like you'll even show your missed
shots, you know, you'll show the flow of the game.
I think that's really important.
And I think it helps everything because
everybody, I mean, I never missed shots
on Instagram.
I got to be honest with you.
I actually, I need to get back into more storytelling.
I feel like that's where YouTube's
dipping back into, um, like the more, like
I was just talking about

(01:22:07):
earlier, like shit changes so much.
And I feel like we're going back.
We're going into this long form era
where maybe like it won't be the same
sort of documentation, vlog style
stuff, but I feel like the longer stuff.
Uh, more storytelling, like that's

(01:22:28):
where I feel like we're going with this.
And then people are obviously
making the short form out of it.
So you kind of do the best worlds, but yeah.
Yeah.
Something that way, if I ever get in
a rut back to what you were, you were
throwing the question back at, at us.
Wait, if I ever get into a rut with
what I'm doing and I feel like I'm just

(01:22:49):
lost in just the process and I'm just
trying to like check the box of like,
all right, I got to do it like this.
This, this is this.
I really try to say, okay, you know what?
I have this raw material, whatever it
is, whether it's me training in the gym,
training players in the gym, myself on
the court, um, whatever something I saw
on Instagram, NBA, like I have this raw

(01:23:10):
thing and now all I'm going to do, I'm
going to eliminate all of the types
of ways I could put this together.
I'm just going to make something good.
Good.
I'm just going to make something like
my intention is to make, back to what
you're saying, you really wanted to do
a good job from the production level.

(01:23:31):
Like that's what you wanted to do.
Like you weren't focused on this
person thinking this or, or how is this
going to represent this?
You were focused on making it good.
And I feel like there's so many different ways to win.
You could win on, you could win on
highly productive, like high production.
You could win on saying something that's profound.
Like ideas can be profound, but

(01:23:52):
also production can be profound.
The, um, who's that dude?
The movement by David, dude, he's like,
uh, he's like stretches and he's like,
whatever, like, I don't really, it's, uh, I don't think
what he's saying is profound,
but the way he transitions and he's
outside and the, like, it's so, people
don't understand the detail that can go
into production and, and, and actually

(01:24:14):
videoing something and how to make
it transition like, all right, I'm
watching this, where do my eyes go
the entire time and, and being obsessed
over that and there's so many ways to win.
And it just like, all right, take all this out.
It's like, how can I just make something good?
And it could be a whole freaking story.
Like this is my, this is the story.
I have a trillion ideas like that,

(01:24:35):
but it's just like, what is good?
What's something that's good to me?
And then I'm going to go put that out.
That's, I like that.
Yeah, no, which seems simple.
It's like lack of direction, but
it's that's the, that's the direction.
Like that's, that's what you got to do.
It's like, it seems so simple.
It seems so obvious.
Yeah.
I want to make something good, but it's
like, yeah, you got to make something good.

(01:24:55):
Like go make something good.
Yeah.
No, you're, you're definitely right.
Bro.
I mean, again, hit the nail on the head,
but that like, I don't even know though.
I don't even know how to follow that up.
Yeah.
So switching gears a little bit.
Um, so about the sum of break down a

(01:25:18):
little bit, what you do with the, the,
the takeover stuff, the park
takeovers, like, how does that, what's like the
behind the scenes of that, like, when
do you, how do you decide, oh, we're
going to this part, we're going to
do this thing, like, what if there's
people there, like I, like
there's a trill, I've known nothing.
Like, I just see like a trillion
people on the sidelines, like all these
people around, like what is the, what is the whole thing?

(01:25:41):
Yeah.
I mean, have you ever hooped at the park?
Like you were just going to hoop at the park before.
Of course.
So it's like that feeling and trying
to, trying to portray that in a completely
different light, so taking this thing
that everybody knows, who been at the
park, everybody's done, like

(01:26:02):
you've done it, everybody's done it.
If you're a hooper, you know, and kind
of making it look different online and
having that energy, but, uh, you know,
when we decided to do a park run and we
want to do like a massive crowd or
something, uh, it's, it's always trying

(01:26:22):
to be like as authentic as possible.
Where are we just like, we'll try and I
try and always connect with like a pro
league or like, uh, um, like a men's
league or something out in some area
that knows a lot of the people that
just like hoop in the area, or I'll try
and end up like hoopers on some D one
teams or high school teams or any NBA
guys that might know some parks in certain areas.

(01:26:45):
Um, post on my story, like, yo, I'm
planning on going out to blah, blah, blah.
What park should we go to?
Um, that's that always is kind of how we figure out.
Do you ever, do you ever, do you ever run into issues just
popping up to people's cities?
Like we know, we know, like
checking in is a big thing, right?
Like people have to do that at times

(01:27:06):
in, in certain places, but do you ever run
into issues just like popping
in people's cities and hoping?
You're like anybody that's going to
come out for one of our things for the
most part, I wouldn't say as a fan,
but knows what we do knows what we're,
knows our intentions are very good.
When we go out there, it's to like
highlight the best hoopers in your city.
Right.
Right.
To put on for the fans.

(01:27:27):
Like it's always family friendly.
It's we're not promoting, like,
obviously there's some toxicity, but that's the
basketball, it's the competitive spirit.
There's some push and there's some Fallon.
There's some, there's some
bullshit here and some bullshit there.
But at the end of the day, our
intentions are to go to that park.
Drop a bomb on the community in a very
positive way and just do something good

(01:27:51):
in the area, make a video out of it.
And then they get to go back and watch it.
And it just is like, I feel like it's
wins all the way around, but I don't really
think we've run into any issues and like,
you know, you got to check in with me to
come over here.
Like, yeah, I've really never had any issues.
Are you bringing people there?
Like how, like, like how many people

(01:28:12):
are you bringing there as far as hoopers?
Um, man, it's so different.
Like when we were on tour, I had like, we
had security and we had the tour bus and
we had, you know, four or five
hoopers with us all the time.
So it's like, things are just
different now because we're not on tour.
But like, sometimes I'll just be
like, I'll get a message or something.

(01:28:34):
And it's like a bunch of people that
respond in an area and they're like, you
got to come out here and then
it just makes sense, you know?
And we're going out to blah, blah, blah.
Make sure you guys pop out and or I'll just go.
Sometimes I go myself.
Um, but it just varies from time to time.
Depends where I'm going.
Depends on who's close, who's free.
I hope with a lot of people that have
like kind of built their own character
inside of my videos and obviously

(01:28:56):
like on their own platforms too.
So it really just depends who's free, who wants to go.
What's it looking like?
Um, what makes sense?
Like if we want to do like a
shifty hoopers versus park hoopers.
Or like the shift is basketball
players online versus park hoopers.
We'll make sure to hit up the people
that move super shifty for not just

(01:29:18):
the video, save the title of the thumbnail.
Um, but you know, just going out
and just making a good video and
whooping with people trying to be
authentic, just hooping at the park, man.
Do you think people mistakenly label you as just a hooper?
Like what people think you
like, Oh, he's just a good hooper.
They don't realize how much
editing goes into it and production.
Like you went to school for this.

(01:29:39):
Yeah, no, I have a degree in
integrated media, my business and like this
is stuff that I actually was
consistently doing for four years while
I was playing in college.
So I was learning some, um, and I
was surrounded by the free equipment.
So it's like, yes, I learned it, but yeah, I think so.
I mean, all I ever put out is stuff with me hooping.

(01:30:01):
So why would anybody really think like I'm even editing?
Like I'd, I go through it, make the
final edits on everything that go out.
Still.
And I just feel like that's,
it's just something I enjoy doing.
What's some things that you would want
to talk about if you can just, if like
you, you didn't have to worry about
anything else and you just like, no,

(01:30:22):
you had a trillion dollars in the bank
and you could talk about whatever you want.
What would you talk about?
What do you mean?
Like, what would, like, what would you
do if you had a trillion dollars, but you
still were making content, what would
be, what would be the things that you would
at least try in your content?
Well, honestly, like I really do love this stuff.
I feel like there's so many people

(01:30:44):
that I've built a relationship with that.
I wish I could help even more in certain ways.
And I just feel like with all the money
in the world, I would just try and do what
we're doing and make it bigger.
So it's just a bigger space for
people to commit to basketball forever.
I feel like there's people that
deserve to like have big games, big one

(01:31:04):
be one games and whatnot.
Um, but the next chapter is a
platform me and some of my boys have built.
Scotty Weaver is the founder of
next chapter and I am one of the owners
as a part in a part of next chapter.
And it's a platform for basketball players.
You know, it's something that was

(01:31:26):
built on the backs of people that were part
of building the basketball community in YouTube.
Um, but shit, man, I would deploy all the
money I could into that because it would.
It's going to be one of the biggest
basketball platforms in the world.
I don't know.
Um, I really don't know how else to

(01:31:47):
explain it, but yeah, to answer your
question, it sounds like based on
your answer to that question that.
That is, that is just the goal and there's no timeline.
Yeah.
I mean, good.
Ultimately, we want to make the
next chapter, the UFC of one V one
basketball, if you will, obviously,
but you look at the UFC, it's only 20, 25

(01:32:12):
years old, like if you look it up
and when was the UFC founded or bought?
And it became actual ultimate, ultimate fighting champion.
Um, it's only 20, 25 years old and it's
a multi-billion dollar company, but it's
because they innovated something
that was working well without disrupting
what was working well.
And I say that being boxing, boxing was

(01:32:32):
one of the only combat sports out there
that was pay-per-view, you have
main cards, you have main events.
Um, you have the storytelling, the
documentation, the trash, talk, the
skill, the talent, you have everything
you need to make this perfect matchup
happen and everyone just gets to sit
and watch and enjoy and see who wins and
see who comes out on top.

(01:32:53):
So he was victorious and keep
multiple people that are good, get to keep
climbing this ladder.
So the formula is already there and
nobody does it in the basketball world.
People have tried, but I think there's
a very specific way that you have to do.
And I think that we're on our way to
doing it the right way for the people
that are participating.
And I think that going back to what I

(01:33:14):
was saying, when UFC came around the
innovative boxing, it was no longer
just like boxing was mixed martial arts.
It was, you could do so much more and
there was, it was just entertaining.
They took the internet by storm
because that was like when the internet was
first popping this wave.
So now it feels like very similar
possibilities with basketball and social
media right now.
Um, but yes, we have our first

(01:33:37):
pay-per-view coming up our first ever live
stream for the next chapter.
Uh, and I'm just excited about it
because it's going to be a way to like put on a
show, um, five one V one
match-ups five of like the biggest one.
What are the rules in your league?
The rules.
So it is twos and threes.

(01:33:58):
Okay.
So we've wanted and you can games go to 30.
So it's a one V one twos and threes game going to 30.
If you get fouled on a shot, you shoot a free throw work.
One point.
If you make the free throw, you get the ball back.
If you miss the free throw, you change
possessions and this way it keeps the
flow of the game and it also keeps the
defender honest, um, because in a lot of
one V one basketball can get nasty,

(01:34:18):
especially in our scene, like there's
different realms of basketball and each one is respected.
You've got like the trenches, like people
always go like the trenches and the hood
vibe, you know what I mean?
Like that is an environment that's fun
to play in that respected and deserves
respect because you've got these
people that are a little too close on the
sideline, whatever their one V one and

(01:34:39):
it's good energy, but we're trying to go
on the professional side and, um, and I
feel like it just keeps the flow of it
with the, with the foul count, you know,
you file somebody on a jumper, just like
in a real game, they're going to the line.
You don't want to foul.
And defense, let's see you sit down
and really play some good defense.
Um, uh,
shot clock dribble max anything like that.

(01:35:02):
And there's a four dribble max.
I like that.
The reason we did four is because twos two is not enough.
Four is enough to really show us what you got in your bag.
Yeah.
And three is just done everywhere.
So by doing four, you got it just
already innovated by the slightest bit,
just changing the dribble.
Yeah.
I think that's perfect.
I think.

(01:35:22):
Yeah, I think that's the perfect number for sure.
It's fun.
Cause like when you see somebody
that's really good at using four dribbles,
their pacing's amazing.
Their one V one play style is so fun to watch.
I think of a guy, there's a guy out
there named Isotay that I hoop with.
He hoops on the next chapter a lot
and he's just got like ridiculous pace.
Um, if you guys get time, just watch a few clips.
Like, I think you'll like it.

(01:35:43):
Um, but he's good with his four
dribbles, but then there's also people that
don't really use four dribbles, you know?
Yeah.
And it's hard to guard those people because it's deceptive.
You know, you get to that two or three
and that hang dribble and they're a good
shooter, they could just give you a drop
as you and get, you know, another bucket.
So I think it's really like evolving
the game in a way doing the four dribbles.

(01:36:04):
I like one V one, two.
I think, you know, different is good too.
You always talk about different, like
going for it, even to work on your game,
going for dribble sometimes going
one dribble, sometimes going from half
court with five dribble, sometimes I
can only score my rights sometimes.
I think that's a great way to work on your game as well.
I think there's so many people that
when they think about it, it's, it feels
like another obvious thing, but
there's so many people that think about

(01:36:26):
basketball and they'll watch NBA or
they'll watch college, which is a five
on five game with three reps, two reps.
And, but when they're actually playing,
like what do most people do when they're
playing basketball competitively is you're playing
one-on-one, like most of the time,
like most of the time spent playing
competitive basketball is one-on-one
basketball, probably with your sibling

(01:36:48):
one-on-one, like most of the time, like
probably, well, it's so entertaining.
It's so entertaining to watch.
Cause it feels like a boxing match.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Feels like one-on-one.
I think, yeah, I think all of us growing up, like we
remember those times that two
people got into the argument and started playing
one-on-one, like that was some

(01:37:09):
of the biggest energy we'll ever remember.
Right.
Yeah.
Like that, that's what we remember.
Entertaining.
Yeah.
It really is so.
And it's, and it's fun to play one-on-one.
It is.
And it's something that is accessible.
Yeah.
You do.
That's the reason I think, that's the
reason I know this space is going to blow
up, even more, because like I

(01:37:29):
said, everything's already there.
It just has to be done right.
And I think that the people participating
need to be taking care of the right way.
And, um, like, like the NBA, like I
genuinely believe the next chapter will be as big
as the NBA.
I know that that's crazy to say,
but we're a year and a half old.
We're about to do our first
pay-per-view and we've already got interest of some

(01:37:51):
high level professional basketball
players and included people want to come out and
show their bag.
And I think the more trust we get and
the more, um, the more money we're able to
deploy to people for playing in one game.
Like we're talking about possibility
this upcoming February of our first one, of
one person being able to

(01:38:11):
generate a hundred grand by themselves.
Yeah.
Playing basketball game one night.
It might take them 30 minutes.
Obviously this preparation over the
course of some months training, whatever,
but those are like serious numbers.
And we're talking social media, YouTubers.
We're not talking NBA guys.
What if we get to a 0.5 years from now
where there's enough money to pay two

(01:38:32):
people in the NBA that people
really want to see play one B one.
They play for a million.
They get a guaranteed bag.
It's a live stream.
It's like this stuff is very possible.
Yeah.
A hundred percent.
I think, I think actually what you're
doing is going to spearhead the NBA and
the Olympics to have a one-on-one competition.
I hope so.
And like, I'm bro.

(01:38:53):
I, I really, I believe so.
I do.
Yeah.
I know this talk has already been in, uh,
in the room and obviously, but you know,
I just want to popularize it in a
different way, not for us to be like, look what we
did, but so people can
genuinely make this a fucking living.
Cause there's so much money that's
like possible in this for people and

(01:39:13):
it's entertaining shit.
Everybody loves one B one bag.
Right.
Right.
You know, the thing about the NBA that
is tough is that they're actually, in my
opinion, they're actually good at media.
They're actually good.
Yeah.
And, but it's like, it seems like there's a lot of big
players that they're not good.

(01:39:34):
They suck.
They're not good.
Like, but NBA, they, they freaking, they, they're dominant.
They're dominant on social media.
They're dominant.
Like NFL, like, I don't know about NFL.
I don't know about all the, like the NBA is good.
Yeah.
The NBA has it.
And there's like, there's no competing with them.
I'm not trying to say like, try to
be as big as them out or nothing.
We got so much respect for them.

(01:39:55):
And like, we're still this YouTube channel.
We're, we're just looking to grow.
Um, look at you.
You're even media trained.
Look at you.
You're even media trained.
That was a great answer.
Got to be on their side, man.
No, I'm just messing with you, bro.
You know what I want?
Go ahead.
Go ahead.
I think it's super unique though, bro.
Like I think they, I think they crush

(01:40:17):
it, you know, and yeah, I don't remember.
I don't know what I was talking about, but
so, you know, you're on the ground level.
You're touring, you're going from city to city.
And this is an age old debate, but from
your perspective, which part of the country,
which city, which state has the best hoopers?
Oh my goodness, bro.

(01:40:37):
I fucking hate this question.
I never, I genuinely never know the answer, but, um,
you know the answer.
Well, that's tough because like I
played basketball in different parts of the
entire world for different reasons.
Like I'm playing in the next chapter event.
It's one V one.

(01:40:57):
I'm playing one person.
So it's hard to judge the whole
city or town off of that one person.
If I go out for a park run, it's
mainly like people that watch it.
Yeah.
We get some really good hoopers that
come out, but we don't get like the studs,
the five star high schoolers that come out to play.
Like we get the best of the city's
men's league teams and like some people that

(01:41:18):
are good at park basketball,
good, good at pickup basketball.
So, um, it's just tough to say.
So no, from your perspective, from
the, from the park hoopers only, from the
park hoopers only, from what you saw.
Billy was pretty good.
Philadelphia.
Okay.
He was really good because in that park
environment, you got to be physical and

(01:41:39):
they know how to like play, play the
skill game and get a bucket, but also like
throw you off of being really physical.
And, uh, yeah, I walked out of there.
I think we played like seven games.
I think we won like one of them and really good over there.
It's just fun.
Um, Detroit for a next chapter event.

(01:42:00):
I know you asked about, I know you asked about, I know you asked about,
I know you said park, but the chart was pretty good.
Richmond, Virginia was pretty good.
Um, played against Rob Dillingham in
Charlotte for a park run like two or
three years ago, and that was when they
were like, and I just said, we don't play
five star high school players, but you know what I mean?
Like that, that we don't come across that very often.
So Charlotte, I'd say like
Charlotte, North Carolina and Philadelphia.

(01:42:23):
I know scar and cam, if you guys are
watching this, you guys are going to
send this to me, some of the guys that hoop with.
You don't put New York in there.
New York stuff.
New York stuff.
I've no, I don't care.
New York sucks.
What are you terrible?

(01:42:43):
You got to relax.
You don't like New York city.
No, I do.
I do.
They're trying.
They used to be, it used to be good.
You should be good.
Nah, it's good.
You know what it is.
A lot of the good hoopers leave and go to prep school.
They go different places.
Yeah.
To the better players.
Can't do that.
What is, I was, I was looking at
your content on your page, on your, on

(01:43:05):
your personal Instagram, and then I
was looking at next chapter content.
I like just from back to content stuff,
the, I, at least from what I saw, I saw
that you were doing a lot, like a lot
of like two, two thing carousels with the
thumbnail and the, and then the video
after that, and you don't do that a lot

(01:43:26):
on your page as your, are you like, is
there a strategy, like how much focus
you go on short form content for
your personal profile and short form for
next chapter versus long form for, for
everything you do, like how much focus?
Great question too.
I actually, like my stuff is, is

(01:43:47):
slightly separate on like the business
side and like who's on the theme.
So, for next chapter, like there's a team
of people that are kind of posting for us
and like, they're really good at what they do.
Like our, our team is phenomenal at what they do.
And on my side, it really is pretty personal.

(01:44:07):
It's like, I want it to feel like
it's me behind my phone posting.
I don't, I feel like for next chapter,
it makes sense if there's somebody that is
really good at the social media.
So it's like, it's a creator versus a platform.
You know what I mean?
So it's hard.
I'm not saying like we can't compare the
two, but I feel like there's a, there's a
purposeful reason behind it being different.

(01:44:27):
Um, I don't focus an absurd amount on
short form as much as I maybe should have
like clips and whatnot, but I really want
to start to get into the, uh, you know, uh,
the day one, day two, day three, but in
the training room, actually, just because
I want to, uh, I want to show more of my
life in that light because I am in the gym
right now.

(01:44:48):
So, uh, you'll see some short form stuff
coming up here, I guess, but, um, the long
form, I really do like focusing on for YouTube.
Um, but trying to.
He in on videos that have a chance
of hitting like a million every time.
So it's almost hit or miss like the

(01:45:09):
Dwight Howard one, like we know, like
sneaking Dwight Howard into a park run
things that maybe I've never been done
before. And you see the title and
thumbnail and you're like, there's no way
they did this, not always possible to get
a video or it's like a title and thumbnail
like that.
Like there, there's obviously, you
know, we have brand partnerships.
We had to get a certain amount of videos

(01:45:29):
out, um, every single month and whatnot.
And it's like, it's hard to capitalize
on, um, just nailing it every single time.
Not impossible, but difficult.
Um, what's that process?
What's that?
Pro, like, where do you start?
Like our YouTube sucks.
We have, we have a plaque back
here and we have that plaque.
We didn't do anything.

(01:45:50):
We don't do anything.
We, we post shorts and, and our, our
got one of our guys posts take literally
repost app from Instagram and just puts it on YouTube.
And that's it.
That's why we were doing whatever
we're, we're, we're show up Gabe behind the
camera, Gabe that sits here, he, him,
and he, we have some VAs that do some work

(01:46:11):
on just like the editing, but we
literally show up for anything long
form pretty much like maybe max five to seven minutes prep.
And we go in and talk about something training wise.
And we know that for us, it's, it's more
about like, what's the conversion on it?
What, how do we get people to our app?
How do we get people?

(01:46:31):
How do we get players to our
training app and our community?
And it's like for that to happen.
We think that long form can be good.
We think that YouTube can be way
better, but it just like so like everything is
about what we do short form on Tik TOK
Instagram and YouTube and, but we, we,
everybody says it and it just makes sense.

(01:46:52):
If you're getting more watch time on a
longer form posts, like it'll just kind
of congregate the attention they have on
you and then they'll go by and whatever.
But what is like, what is
your, what is like a brief process?
Like you're trying to, you're
trying to, all right, like this is how
I'm going to make something go.
And I agree with that, by the way.
I post 900 times a day and I

(01:47:13):
shouldn't, but it just like an addiction at this
point, and I think that there's way more
upside of focusing on once you're good.
Once you know, once you have some signal
of what's going on, that the quality just
can freaking outperform any amount
of qua- like the, if it's really good,

(01:47:33):
it can just go crazy.
And if you can focus enough and
you're good enough to focus on one thing
instead of doing a bunch of things,
one thing really well, it'll outperform
a hundred, 200 X something like anything else that you do.
So what is that process of
like, I'm going to go make this hit?
Um, bro, I think a lot of, a lot of

(01:47:56):
the videos that I do for my channel that
have like done very well, that have a
good, I feel like a good title, a good
thumbnail, a good idea, a good story
to it, and like starts with a voice
over and has some good music.
I feel like everything's always kind of
just been like an idea that was thought
of or like an idea that maybe was
bounced off something else that I've seen.

(01:48:16):
So it's kind of, I feel like
something like, like sneaking a college
basketball team into a park run kind of
goes hand in hand with what I know have
done well with me, with my videos before.
It's not the same.
It's not like, all right, we've already
seen this, but it's just like, all right.
What college team who's on the college team?
How well do they do?
How it leads to curiosity, maybe leads to curiosity, maybe.

(01:48:37):
Exactly.
That's, that's always what it is.
Yeah.
Like secretly wearing spring loaded
shoes against pro hoopers and like doing a
thumbnail where it looks like I'm
dunking on a pro and I point an arrow to the
spring loaded shoes and I just like
Photoshop myself a little bit higher on
the rim and then they click it and
instantly it's like, these are spring

(01:48:57):
loaded shoes.
So it's like they're getting what
they're clicking on the video for right away.
And maybe they've never seen it like that
or they've never seen something like that.
And there's a guy out there named DC Heat
who's in the basketball world on YouTube
as well, as well, who's so smart, so good at the algorithm.
What's his name?
DC Heat.
He's been online for like 10 months.
DC Heat?

(01:49:18):
Yeah.
His name's Aidan.
He's, he's been like, uh, he was a creator forever.
He's, he's maybe only like 23 or 24.
He started YouTube when he was like 12 or something.
And I mean, he's starting to really
understand the algorithm and it's getting
scary.
His editing is amazing.
Like I just give so much credit to what
they do because it's just such good work.

(01:49:39):
Um, but yeah, like his titles, his thumbnails, all of that.
I would say though, I wouldn't go into
a long form video if you don't know what
the title and thumbnail is going to be already.
Wow.
Because then, you know, you can form that story.
Like obviously for us, like something
crazy happens at the park and someone
gets dunked on after getting broken.

(01:50:00):
Like we can do a side by side of them
getting broken and then like a arrow
that I'm getting dunked on.
Those are spontaneous moments that
happen, but maybe we went to the park to film
something like secretly lowering the
hoops before the night before the park
run and doing like we've done, we've
done that before where we secretly lower the
hoops on park hoopers.
And so we went the night before

(01:50:21):
lowered them to like nine something played on
that end and did the dunking stuff.
But, um, yeah, I mean, knowing your
title and thumbnail and your storyline going
into a long form video can help the
success rate of that video so much more.
Uh, and so like on for next chapter,
like we are posting a lot of long form.

(01:50:41):
We don't always know the title and
thumbnail, but we have an idea obviously.
Uh, but this upcoming season, we're
posting, um, specific thumbnails of like
player cards on the side just to see,
you know, but I don't know, that's what I
would say I would, I would maybe take
into account like the, uh, the process
really, that's great stuff.

(01:51:03):
That's great stuff.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
So what I do, I get a free, uh, free tips and tricks.
Do you want to, you know, learn a
lot of the trick, learn a lot of the
podcast, like you want to like learn
over time, but then also learn from other
people just saying it, like I'm just
somebody that's repeating something that
maybe has worked for me off of
what somebody else has sent on another

(01:51:25):
podcast that I've watched, you know, like
this, there's so much information out there.
I feel like a lot of it's just execution.
You either talk about it or you fucking do it, bro.
Yeah.
Definitely.
Yeah.
It's just like, for us, it's like we
do, but it's, there's, there's just like,
what's the, what, how are we

(01:51:45):
going to get to where we want to go?
And is it figured out YouTube or is it just, there's so
many things that we need to do.
It's tough to figure it out.
Like I can say all this stuff, but to
be honest, but like I genuinely don't
have it figured out at all right now.
That's why I was just telling you a
minute ago, like I think the algorithm's
going in a long form way and I'm looking
up videos and like, where's the algorithm

(01:52:06):
going, trying to learn and teach myself?
Because two months ago I had three
videos that did 1.3, 1.7, 1.5 and numbers
alone, like I love every video we put
out, but it's always interesting to see the
trajectory and the possibility of
what the idea was seeing it formulate and
seeing how well it does.
Um, but like even right now I posted a
video four days ago and it's at like 60 K.

(01:52:28):
So seeing the difference between like
certain things, different timeframes,
when it's posted YouTube is specific bro.
And like, nobody really has it figured out.
And I think at the end of the day,
like definitely give yourself some credit.
Just think of a good idea, you know,
think of a good idea, put it together
really well, get a good title and thumbnail.
And it's like, feels like simple math from there.

(01:52:49):
Control what you could control.
Yeah, of course.
Yeah.
Of course.
I was listening to, um, Gary yesterday
on his live, he's been doing like the live
things and he's just, he's, he's a, he's a nut.
He's a clown.
He's like, he has like 30 people on the line.

(01:53:09):
Like he has nobody on the line.
He just goes crazy.
And he's taught, he was talking about
testing and I didn't know we did this
cause he's posted a lot of people
on Instagram right now, they're going
one to two times a day, I go four to
seven times a day and I don't, I just,
that's how I roll and I just go.
But little do I know is that like

(01:53:30):
you listened to somebody like hormones.
He, he says his testing ground is Twitter and he'll post a
trillion times on Twitter, things that
are good on Twitter, good ideas at hit.
People resonate with, he'll put them,
put them to shorts and then he'll stack
them together, make YouTube type
of informational type of things.
Gary, he's, I see him, he's posting
one to two times a day, but, and I
did never made sense to me.

(01:53:50):
I'm like, I don't understand this.
Like he has 160 people that work
personally on his freaking team for his
accounts and he's like, how much work is there to do?
Like how much can you do?
But he's, what he's doing is he had, I've heard him say it.
He's probably posting somewhere
between 50 and a hundred times on a single

(01:54:12):
platform and they're on separate
accounts that he's testing them on because
he doesn't care about if something's
going to go, if something's good, it'll go.
Like if something's good, it
doesn't matter what account post it.
Cause that's just how the algorithms are.
Yeah.
Like it just, if it's good, you
could have, you could have a low follower
account and if you go viral easily, it's the right thing.
So it's like he's, he said he posted

(01:54:32):
something a couple days ago and it was
one of the first things, one of the
only things that he's posted in a while
that they haven't tested cause he liked it.
And I was like, what?
Like, what are you doing?
What are you doing?
Gary, Gary, I used to consume
Gary's content day in and day out, bro.
I fucking love him, bro.
When I met him, I cried.
Like he was a really big

(01:54:53):
inspiration into everything I was doing.
You got V friends.
Huh?
You got a V friend?
No, no, no, no.
Like I, um, I actually kind of stopped watching this stuff.
Not that I like stop following him or
anything, but I feel like at some point
I just kind of like, you know, I don't know.
I like to see.
Remember saying years ago, like my

(01:55:15):
goal is not for you to be consuming.
My goal is for you to take what
I'm saying and like not watch myself.
I don't know, but yeah, yeah, I do, bro.
Yeah.
I like, I like a lot of times what
P I only, I stay in touch with a few
people that I think are like what
you're saying, people that say, I don't, I
don't have it figured out.

(01:55:36):
I don't have this shit figured out
because those are the people you could
learn from, and he's, I know for like,
he's in a very unique situation where
watching what he does and what he's
talking about, it's like when he says
something, it seems like he's saying
something to either portray, like make a
good short form clip in that moment
or, or saying something that he's always

(01:55:58):
said before, but if he says something,
the context that he has, because he's in
a position like nobody else, he's
somebody that's putting out content as a CEO of
one of the biggest media companies in the world.
Uh, and, and he has all the data.
Nobody else has data like he has, and he

(01:56:19):
is, he, he's speaking the same language
as us, so like we can have a conversation with him.
His context for everything that's going
on is through the roof of what's going on.
And I think what a lot of
people miss with him is that point.
And then they also miss the fact that
they'll look at his YouTube and say, yo,
this is terrible.

(01:56:39):
Like you're not like you, like you think
you're good and you're not doing anything.
Or they'll look at his Instagram or
TikTok or whatever, but it's like, he has
a 2,500 person media company where he's
working with big, big, big, big, big brands
spending probably over a
billion dollars in ad spend a year.

(01:57:00):
And he gets all of that data.
I people like that are very
interesting to me that they could say something.
It's a completely different weight.
Same thing with like a hormones.
But, but nobody's in the position as, as Gary is.
And if he's going to say like things are
changing every day, things are changing
every day, watching what he does, you know, he's only
posting one to two times a day.

(01:57:21):
I'm still going to do me, but that's interesting.
And then you see, or mostly do that's interesting.
All right, Gary, you're, you're
obsessed over the pictures right now.
Just like literally squares, white
backgrounds, a weird pig in the front.
And they'll handle do like freaking words with his
signature and he does it over.
And you kind of see, okay, is this like testing?
Is this something that he's been doing over and over again?
That affects me when he does two

(01:57:42):
prong carousels, the way he's been doing
them, that affects me when he does
big, when he used to do a lot, like long
carousels, that affects me.
And then I also look at MBA.
I'll look at MBA house of highlights, bleacher report.
I'll look at like these people know what they're doing.
Like there's some, there's certain
people that are like, they have a lot of data
and they all know what they're doing.
And they all do kind of similar
things back to what you're saying.
You could kind of learn from what

(01:58:04):
these big, like they're successful
doing what they're doing.
They're successful.
And just interesting seeing the next
chapter stuff you're saying like, yeah,
they know what they're doing.
They're good.
A lot of people.
They do the, the top is a horizontal,
like of the first part of an Instagram
carousel, the top is horizontal.
Then it's two blocks and it's a title in the middle.
There's something interesting about
that, that like that does go that works.

(01:58:25):
Sometimes an arrow pointing to
something with the title boom by any means, you
know, by any means and he's not that
good, but he does weird shit where he'll flip
it, where he'll do the thumbnail of the
carousel and the second post and he'll
do the video on the first post.
And because sometimes you see the
second post and sometimes his go and it like
messes with my brain that he does that.

(01:58:47):
But there's, there's so much to it of
like people are actually, I do agree that
nobody has it figured out, but then
there's some people that are like, they
kind of do have some things figured
out and it's like, what are they doing?
And it's like, not to copy.
The truth is it's always changing.
So everybody is trying to figure
it out, but I do see what you're
saying with the data as well.
It does.
It is always changed.

(01:59:07):
Like I just, everything is so fascinating to me.
I question, should I be posting a
hundred times a day and not two times a day?
The crazy thing with AI and
algorithms and just AI in general does do
the companies even know.
No, they have no idea.
The CEO of Instagram has no idea what's going on.
Whenever he puts out a post saying
some type of advice, it's the opposite.
And he might know, and he's just

(01:59:28):
deliberately saying the wrong shit.
He has no idea what's going on.
I love when people reference him.
He doesn't know shit.
He talks about the wrong shit
constantly or things that he cannot possibly
know on such a uniform scale.
Like he's talking about.
This is actually a thing.
Yeah.
The Instagram C is he the CEO of Instagram?
Yeah.
Is it CEO of Instagram?

(01:59:49):
He's got a guy that wears glasses
and he like, like there's a certain
retrainness of like, he is the
CEO of Instagram and he talks about.
Isn't Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO of
Instagram and the meta Instagram.
Yeah.
But, um, I know what you're talking about.
I've seen it.
I've seen one of his posts before
about like, if you want your reels to do
better numbers, reply to a lot of

(02:00:10):
your comments and it might not like spark
your numbers right away, but look
back, you know, seven to 10 days from now.
Like I did see, I did see.
That's interesting.
Yeah.
Um, I know what you're talking about though.
I've seen some of his stuff now that you're saying that.
I, I, looking at like what people

(02:00:31):
are doing something that during the
Olympics, when, when, uh, the USA, uh,
men's videos, they would post the same.
I remember it was very deliberately was bet.
It was Bama.
It was LeBron.
All you pass to or BAM out of bio.
All you pass to LeBron, they posted
that same exact piece of content three

(02:00:53):
times in a 45 minute window on the same
exact page, but then there's some people
that are like, Oh, only post one to two times a day.
They're posting the same exact piece of
content in three different ways in the,
in the same 45 minute window.
And there's like, they're a calculator.
You're saying, how do you like take over?
Like, how do you take over?
Like, why can they do that?
And why can't, why can't we do that?

(02:01:16):
Why can I do that?
Why can't the good drill account do that?
And I'm just like, why not do that?
Cause they crush like, who are the
biggest accounts, how it's a highlights.
They post 80 times a day, 12 times a
day, NBA, they post a bunch of times a day.
Like I think about this because it's
similar to what you have with, um, with
next chapter we have, so I have my

(02:01:36):
accounts and Bobby has his accounts and
we're doing this stuff on YouTube.
But we also have like the good drill
account and there's like a separate
brand that's going on.
So there's like a similarity here
where it's like you're you, but then you
have next chapter and you want to build
next chapter to be a one-on-one league.
We have good drill and the long-term
thing that can happen with good drill
in our head is like an overtime type
of vibe where it's like more about the

(02:01:58):
content and me and Bobby can kind
of phase out of it a little bit.
And you're kind of building this big brands.
Maybe that's your answer though.
The you you're saying long-term, but
then you're talking about like, why
can't this account do this?
Like maybe it, maybe it really is just
like patience and continuing to do that
over a long period of time, you know,
to, you know, gain that respect and gain

(02:02:19):
that, you know, what people are coming
to you for, like what's differentiating
yourself from that, cause I, I
definitely see like something like that being
possible for sure.
Yeah.
It's all interesting science.
People don't know.
People don't know.
Great stuff.
Good stuff to say on brand.
Yeah.
Stuff.

(02:02:39):
Thanks.
Thanks for your time, man.
And, um, I really appreciate all your work.
Keep doing your thing and good
luck with, um, the one-on-one league.
I'm excited, man.
I want to get, thank you so much.
Thank you so much.
It's, it's a year and 11 months old.
And I know, I know 10 to 15 years from
now, you guys will know all about, I mean,

(02:03:01):
obviously you know about it now, but
like people will know all about it.
I'm sure.
I believe you.
I believe you.
I'd put money on you.
All the right reasons.
So you can come back and you can check the tape.
I got to make sure that I got to, uh, follow right now.
I don't follow that account.
Sorry.
Let's take the title.

(02:03:21):
Let everybody know where they could find you in the league.
Yeah.
Um, you know, you can find me on
all socials, the volunteer Frigga or
deep free, good P F R I G.
A.
Um, and, uh, next chapter,
common spelling, the next chapter on
Instagram is next 22 chapter.
We need to get that changed, but
it's kind of just been the same thing.
So they want to disrupt it, but yeah.

(02:03:44):
And then, uh, on YouTube, same
thing, all socials, all platforms, the
volunteer Frigga and, or the next
chapter, um, what the and or the next
chapter, but, uh, yeah, man, I really
appreciate you guys having me on here.
I always like really enjoy speaking
to other communities, other audiences
that may not be tapped in that may be tapped in.

(02:04:05):
Um, so always appreciate hopping on and
being able to speak my piece on certain
things and even just answer some
questions, some really good questions,
some good questions for sure.
Thank you, man.
We will be tapped in talk soon.
Appreciate your time.
You're always welcome back.
All right, man.
Thank you guys so much.
Text me, bro.
All right.
I'll text you.
Yep.
Sounds good.

(02:04:25):
Cool.
All right, guys.