June 23, 2025 • 48 mins
Content note: This episode includes discussions of apartheid, colonialism, Gaza, genocide, and gender-based violence. If you’re unable to engage with these topics right now, you are welcome to skip this episode or come back to it when you feel better resourced.
In this powerful episode, activist and Registered Counsellor Shaheeda Sadeck joins us again to discuss the underreported realities of Islamophobia in South Africa, the mental health struggles of lesbian Muslim women, and why South Africa has taken such a bold stance against the genocide in Gaza. From hate crimes against mosques to the legacy of apartheid and its parallels with Palestinian oppression, this conversation bridges faith, justice, and decolonial psychology.
Shaheeda also shares insights from her groundbreaking research on queer Muslim women in Cape Town and the urgent need for mental health practitioners to advocate for Palestinian liberation.
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Extras📌 Support the Institute for Healing of Memories (IHOM): https://healing-memories.org/donate/
👇 Chapters
00:00:00 Land acknowledgement 00:00:28 Title credits 00:00:44 Content note 00:01:14 Welcome and introduction 00:01:53 Impact of Islamophobia on the mental health of Muslims in South Africa 00:09:51 Mental health challenges of Queer Muslims in Cape Town 00:19:38 From South Africa to Palestine: Ongoing decolonial work 00:24:52 Why healthcare workers must speak up for Palestine 00:38:40 The healing of memories 00:45:32 End credits
This episode of Intersectional Psychology was researched, written, recorded, and edited by Aurora Brown.
🎶Additional music credits BIIANSU. Ptem. ZapSplat. https://www.zapsplat.com/music/ptem-dark-pads-fading-in-and-out-with-a-fast-paced-gated-effect/ DeepTheme Audio. Analog Bubbles - Alternative Version 4. ZapSplat. https://www.zapsplat.com/music/analog-bubbles-dreamy-calm-and-carefree-musical-bumper-stinger-intro-outro/ DeepTheme Audio. Into the Blue. ZapSplat. https://www.zapsplat.com/music/into-the-blue-ambient-calm-warm-pads-serious-musical-bumper-stinger-intro-outro/ Miles, D. Shades of Orange. ZapSplat. https://www.zapsplat.com/music/shades-of-orange-a-serene-relaxing-warm-ambient-piece-with-slow-mellow-chords-perfect-for-relaxation-meditation-etc/ ZapSplat. Among the Stars, no piano edit. https://www.zapsplat.com/music/among-the-stars-no-piano-soothing-ambient-choir-portrays-panoramic-space-good-for-landscapes/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Aurora Brown and Intersectional Psychology acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians
(00:08):
of country throughout South Africa, and their connections to land, water and community.
We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Indigenous
people listening today.
(00:30):
Hello, this is Aurora dropping in with a quick content note.
(00:53):
This episode does include discussions of apartheid, colonialism, haza and gender-based violence.
If you are unable to engage with these topics right now, you are welcome to skip this episode
or come back to it when you feel better resourced.
(01:18):
Thanks for all the lovely feedback on last week's episode.
Today, I am sharing the second half of my interview with Shahidah Sadek.
Enjoy!
Hello and welcome back to Intersectional Psychology, the podcast that explores psychology's role
(01:42):
in promoting social justice.
I am your host, Aurora Brown, I am a registered councillor in Cape Town, South Africa.
I hope you are well.
(02:14):
Over the past few decades, there has been a rise in Islamophobia worldwide.
South Africa has quite a large Muslim population, especially here in the Western Cape, and you
do a lot of work with Muslim clients.
(02:37):
How has this global climate of Islamophobia filtered through to South Africa, and how
does it impact the local Muslim population?
So Islamophobia has manifested in South Africa in various ways, and it has been influenced
by global narratives and local socio-political dynamics.
(02:59):
So while South Africa has a history of religious tolerance, incidents of anti-Muslim sentiment
have surfaced, particularly in the form of hate crimes, discrimination and negative
media portrayals.
So I'll just say a little bit on how I believe Islamophobia has infiltrated the South African
(03:20):
landscape.
So Islamophobic rhetoric from Western countries has shaped the perceptions of Muslims in
South Africa, often linking Islam to extremism.
Online platforms have amplified Islamophobic narratives, sometimes leading to real-world
(03:41):
hostility.
There have been incidents of vandalization, of vandalism and desecration of mosques.
Hate crimes, attacks in Cape Town where mosques were defiled with pig blood.
And these are just some examples.
And some political and religious discussions have framed Muslim communities as security
(04:04):
threats, which reinforces stereotypes.
So what has the impact of this been on Muslims?
It's created a climate of fear and exclusion, affecting the sense of belonging amongst South
African Muslims.
(04:25):
However, at the same time, we do see people from the Muslim community taking the lead
in issues of social justice as a way of reclaiming themselves, reclaiming their place in the
slain, the country of the birth.
This sense of freedom did not exist with the apartheid movement.
(04:46):
The Muslim community has had to navigate theological debates and increase scrutiny,
particularly in public spaces.
I'm not sure if other religions have been subjected to the same kind of scrutiny and
treatment in South Africa.
Muslim leaders and organizations have actively worked to counter Islamophobia, promoting
(05:11):
interfaith dialogue and unity.
This is the same as asking people of color to work harder to prove that they are not
dangerous.
Now, despite these challenges, South Africa's Muslim population continue to play a vital
role in politics, academia, and social justice movements, advocating for religious coexistence
(05:38):
and equity.
So I have some ideas on how to address it and if I could go ahead and share that now.
So to address Islamophobia in South Africa requires strategic activism, policy reform
and community engagement.
(06:00):
Some ways it can be done is to be part of interfaith dialogues to build understanding between
different religious communities, to include in our CPD training dedicated spaces, to issue
all forms of homophobia and to discuss issues of race, class, religious differences, Islamophobia
(06:23):
and other forms of discrimination based on differences.
We need to perhaps develop anti-Islamophobic educational programs for schools, workplaces
and public spaces.
And this is not as prevalent I think in K-town as perhaps in other provinces and we need
(06:45):
to counter misinformation by amplifying Muslim voices through the media, storytelling and
community forums.
Advocates and activists can push the stronger hate crime legislation that explicitly addresses
Islamophobic violence and advocate for anti-discrimination policies in workplaces and institutions to
(07:10):
protect Muslim professionals and students.
Modern media can challenge negative portrayals of Muslims by promoting inclusive storytelling.
Education programs can help people recognize and reject Islamophobic rhetoric.
We can support Muslim-led organizations that focus on justice, equality and social change
(07:37):
and mobilize communities to document and to report Islamophobic incidents which will
thus ensure accountability.
We need to address the psychological impact of Islamophobia, reinforcing cultural identity
and empowerment.
I love that your response is not just to provide support for the Muslim community but also to
(08:02):
address the problem by educating wider society.
I remember when I was in primary school, it was very Christian-oriented.
We would pray in assembly on Monday and the choir would occasionally sing Christian hymns.
I think we might even have had formal religious education from a Christian paradigm.
(08:27):
Now our community was predominantly Christian but not exclusively so.
In high school, I think we had one year of religious education where our teacher valiantly
tried to teach us about religions that she was clueless about and no one really took
(08:48):
it seriously.
But I guess I must also caveat this anecdote with the acknowledgement that I am old.
I was at school during the transition to outcomes-based education which didn't last
long.
I think there might be a different education system in place now.
(09:09):
So I don't know how much religious education there is at the moment.
But wouldn't our society be more tolerant and inclusive if we all understood each other's
faiths and convictions better?
If we have religious education, we should encompass all of the religions.
(09:33):
Yeah, now religious intolerance often causes so much of hate towards people of different
faiths.
Yeah.
Oh, not faiths.
Yeah.
(10:02):
Now, if I recall correctly, your research thesis was on the mental health of lesbian Muslims,
(10:23):
which is quite a niche group, especially if we're talking about openly gay Muslim women.
Can you tell us a bit about your research and about the queer Muslim community in Cape
Town?
So many religious women who don't conform to traditional gender roles or sexual norms
face significant stress.
(10:45):
And this is across religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, often seen as patriarchal
and homophobic.
So the experiences of Muslim lesbian women are particularly complex and largely invisible.
So because of the stigma surrounding their identities, many Muslim lesbians in Cape
(11:08):
Town, ironically, in a city often regarded as a gay capital of South Africa, navigate
their lives in secrecy.
So while broader studies on the LGBTIQ plus Muslim community internationally highlight
the challenges of balancing religious faith with sexual identity, there was very little
(11:33):
research on the specific psycho-social difficulties Muslim lesbians face in Cape Town at the time
that I did my research.
I'm hoping that much more research has been done subsequently, talking about eight, nine
years ago.
So my research aimed to change that, knowing that it was probably just going to go sit
(11:58):
on the shelf because it was an honest level research, but I am a hopeless person, not
hopeless, hopeful person.
And yeah, maybe some people would say I'm a hopeless case because I always remain hopeful.
So I used a qualitative, now let me see if I can pronounce this word right, phenomenological
(12:21):
approach that I wanted to give voice to Muslim lesbians and understand their unique spaces.
So the study was guided by the minority stress model, which explores coping mechanisms, barriers
to coping, sources of social support, and patterns of help seeking.
(12:44):
I conducted in-depth face-to-face interviews with six, with six actually not about, with
six participants.
I mean, that's such a small sample.
So sometimes I do feel that because it was such a small sample, how much of voice and
confidence did my research hold, okay, but beyond contributing to academic knowledge,
(13:08):
I hope to do, would have helped to reduce stigma and courage culturally sensitive advocacy
and build bridges between Muslim community, Muslim lesbians and society at large.
And it certainly impacted me in that way as the researcher, it certainly got me to understand
(13:31):
the Muslim lesbian community on a whole different level, and I hope the same for other people.
So lesbian Muslims often navigate intersecting layers of marginalization, facing discrimination
both within religious spaces and the LGBTIQ dust communities.
(13:53):
And some of the key findings from my research included religious stigma, where many struggle
with reconciling their faith and sexuality, particularly in conservative Muslim communities.
There's a lot of family and social pressures, and many of these women feared rejection, over-forced
(14:15):
into secrecy, and therefore led lives, isolated lives, very anxious, highly anxious and stressed,
and that often led to a depression.
They were limited mental health resources for Muslim communities because of the fear
of disclosure.
(14:37):
And very few therapists actually specialized in affirming both queer and Muslim identities,
making access to cultural competent care, I'm talking particularly about Muslim therapists
and counsellors here.
So many Muslim lesbians have coped by connecting with like-minded people and allies, pursuing
(15:01):
their faith privately and outside of mainstream structural spaces, not disclosing to their
family as it felt safe, whilst those whose families knew don't make a big issue of it.
So it's kept secret.
It's not spoken about, it's not embraced openly.
(15:23):
Some coped family clubs and using alcohol.
So unfortunately, my research did not comment on the intersecting struggles of Islamophobia
and homophobia, and it would have really been nice if I had the time, but I was limited
and honest student, not doing PhD, not doing masters, so it was limiting.
(15:49):
Cape Town was also home to the world's first openly gay imam, Mohsin Hendrix.
In a previous episode, I mentioned his brutal assassination earlier this year, but I'm
wondering if your research and work ever brought you into contact with him and the affirming
(16:10):
community he was building for LGBTQIA Muslims.
What would you be willing to share about that?
So first, I just want to say I was absolutely devastated and heartbroken and shocked at the
brutal killing of Imam Mohsin Hendrix.
(16:31):
No human being deserves to have their life taken away in such a manner, and no family
needs to have their loved ones brutalized and taken away in the manner that he was taken
away.
So I had heard of and knew about Mohsin Hendrix before I started my research, but in doing
(16:55):
my research, I got an opportunity to meet with him face to face.
And if it was not through his kindness and his trust in me, I would not have met some
of the participants that I met.
And I went to the inner circle, which was a safe space.
(17:15):
I participated in some of the religious rituals that took place in those spaces.
It was just a most amazing experience with people were absolutely free to just participate
in something that was so dear to their heart.
(17:37):
And for me to have been welcomed into the community and included felt like such an honor.
And for this, I would be forever grateful to Imam Mohsin Hendrix.
He will always hold a very dear place in my heart for if it was not for some of his contacts
(18:00):
or the sampling or what we call Snowball sampling, but in giving me access to some of those people,
my own world would have been narrower and poorer.
So he is one of the people it is, I have been so involved in diversity issues.
(18:22):
But the LGBTQ community was not one that I easily had access to because I don't identify
along that grouping of names.
And so to have been accepted as an ally and to be trusted as an ally has meant such a lot to me.
(18:49):
And because of those experiences, one of the things that I thought I would love to do when I qualify
was actually support Muslim lesbians and also other people on the LGBTQA plus community.
Because for me, everybody's just another human being wanting a place on the sun.
(19:14):
So yeah, so that's when I first made contact with Mohsin Hendrix in person.
(19:44):
You and I have also connected about our support for Palestine and our activism against the
(20:10):
ongoing genocide in Gaza.
South Africa was the first country to bring a case of genocide against Israel to the International Court of Justice.
This case was obviously justified and South Africa did the right thing.
But why do you think South Africa of all the countries in the world feels so strongly about the plight of the Palestinians?
(20:39):
Yeah, so I was just thinking that, you know, as I was just thinking about this question and I wonder why so many years
after 1994, I still have to answer some of these questions.
But let me tell you and let me try and explain that South Africa's strong support for Palestine is deeply rooted in our own
(21:03):
history of colonization, apartheid and resistance.
The country sees parallels between our country sees parallels between our struggles against racial discrimination,
segregation, discrimination and the Palestinian fight against occupation, making solidarity such a natural extension of our own commitment to justice.
(21:31):
The African National Congress and the Palestinian Liberation Organization have had ties since the anti-colonial movements of the 50s and the 60s.
Nelson Mandela, our late president, famously stated, we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.
(21:55):
And many South Africans view Israel's policies towards Palestinians as similar to apartheid, particularly in terms of land disposition, restricted movement and systemic discrimination.
South Africa's post-apartheid government has consistently prioritized human rights and anti-colonial struggles, making Palestine a key issue in its international stance.
(22:26):
Bringing the case to the ICJ has influenced global discussions on human rights and international law.
If South Africa hadn't done this, I personally would have been extremely disappointed as a person who voted for this government.
The success of the anti-apartheid boycott has made South Africa a model for global pro-Palestinian activism.
(23:05):
Hello, it's me, Aurora.
Please excuse me interrupting my own podcast.
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(23:32):
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(23:53):
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(24:18):
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So just go to patreon.com and search for Intersectional Psychology.
Thanks and back to Intersectional Psychology.
(25:18):
Now, in addition to women and children, Israel has also specifically targeted other protected groups of people,
including healthcare workers, journalists and aid workers in Palestine.
Why is it so important for South African healthcare providers specifically to speak out against the genocide in Gaza?
(25:45):
So it's so important because our country's own history of apartheid has lived deep psychological scars,
an experience that allows South African mental health workers to uniquely understand the long-term trauma caused by oppression, violence and displacement.
And in fact, you know, very often, as activists, when we speak about depression, we don't speak about depression, we speak about oppression.
(26:15):
And so in Gaza, civilians are experiencing extreme psychological distress with relentless bombings, loss of loved ones,
children, whole families, children, innocent children being wiped out, displacement and the destruction of entire communities.
(26:39):
The collapse of healthcare services means that mental health support is almost non-existent, leaving survivors to cope with unimaginable grief and anxiety.
And they don't even call it PTSD because it is so ongoing and they don't have professional help, but they are getting together.
(27:03):
They get together in groups, in kitchens, in fields, around so many circles.
And the world has seen evidence of children experiencing severe trauma, families dealing with intergenerational emotional pain and an entire population living in a constant state of fear and uncertainty.
(27:26):
And very recently, some of us may have heard in the news and the name has surpassed me.
A doctor, a doctor was working in a hospital who lost, I think it was seven of her children in a bomb that was targeted at her house.
And their husband and one son survived that bomb blast and are fighting for their lives in hospital.
(27:52):
Yes, she lost nine of her 10 children.
Sure, yeah. I mean, imagine, and here you are, providing health support with the little and the broken down resources and to have your own family arrive in the way that they do and then to have to build up the courage to continue supporting those who need you the most.
(28:18):
So mental health professions are guided by ethical principles that prioritize care, advocacy and social justice.
Remaining silent in the face of such large scale psychological devastation contradicts those core values.
South African mental health workers have a responsibility not only to provide support for those affected locally, but also to raise global awareness of the profound mental health crisis that is unfolding in Gaza, but which has started during the days of the NACPA.
(28:58):
But yet they're resilience.
So and that is why I say that is ongoing stress that is not post traumatic stress disorder cannot apply such a label to the people of Palestine.
So by speaking out, mental health workers can highlight the urgent need for intervention, advocate for trauma informed policies,
(29:20):
and stand against the normalization of psychological harm inflicted on an entire population that is appropriate and relevant to them.
We cannot take our models and nicely place in while there are similarities between South Africa and Palestine.
There are also differences.
(29:41):
And so we need to provide the kind of support and speak out for the kind of support that is appropriate for that community in terms of how best they can receive it.
And if they want to, maybe they don't need us to come in and do individual counselling.
Maybe what they need for us is to advocate around other issues.
(30:04):
So silence allows suffering to continue unchecked, but advocacy can drive change.
If as a country, we are determined as healthcare workers to heal the wounds of our collective trauma and collective traumatic past, we will understand that Western psychology often pathologizes
(30:27):
Palestinian resistance or any resistance by the oppressed, labeling such responses as aggression or irrational behavior.
We will understand further that mainstream psychology can reinforce colonial narratives by failing to acknowledge structural violence as a mental health determinant.
(30:50):
A critical and decolonial lens will reframe trauma, anxiety and depression in Palestinian communities within the context of occupation and global injustices rather than individual pathology.
Understanding the parallels between what is happening in Palestine and what has happened in South Africa may create the impetus much needed in our country for collective healing.
(31:23):
South African healthcare workers have a unique moral and historical responsibility to speak out against the genocide in Gaza.
Given the country's legacy of anti-apartheid resistance, human rights advocacy and medical solidarity.
And this is why their voices are crucial. Healing is just not personal. It is political.
(31:50):
Mental health professionals must actively challenge narratives that erase Palestinian suffering.
And uplift frameworks that foster resilience, resistance and liberation.
And I just want to acknowledge by name that doctor that we mentioned and also correct my own language.
(32:15):
Dr. Allah Al-Najja didn't lose any of her children. While she was caring for the injured in hospital,
nine of her 10 children were murdered in her home. Our deepest condolences go out to her and her surviving family.
(32:37):
Did I say lose?
Please.
That was absolutely incorrect. No.
She did not lose her children. They were murdered.
It was very, very a targeted murder of her children.
And a targeted bombing of her family.
(33:02):
Thank you for, thank you for highlighting that I use the word lose. And it just shows how
we ourselves can sometimes forget the language we use and how we can minimize
the absolute loss that this mom, this mother must be feeling at the brutal death of her children.
(33:27):
Absolutely. And I think that ties in with our whole theme of decolonialization today.
I mean, we were all raised in this colonial framework and decolonization is an ongoing process.
And it's something that we also have to grow and learn and unlearn every day. So yeah, thank you Shahida.
(33:53):
Okay. And how can other listeners get more involved in bringing an end to this crime?
So the ongoing, it's unrelenting. It feels like, you know, it only started in October two years back.
But this is a, this has started long, long before. And it's a humanitarian crisis that
(34:17):
demands immediate action. This is not just a Palestinian issue. It is a fight against
colonial violence, displacement, and systemic oppression that affects marginalized communities
worldwide. And each of us therefore has a role to play in bringing an end to this crime, to these
(34:38):
crimes. And firstly, we can start by educating ourselves and others. We can share accurate
information. Just as you just said earlier on, when I inadvertently used the word lost,
more accurately, those children were murdered. And that's accurate information. Losing them,
(35:03):
they did not go out to play and get lost in a park. No, that's not what happened. We need to
challenge harmful narratives, which is what you did with me in this space now.
And we need to amplify Palestinian voices. We need to support grassroots movements and
organizations providing direct aid to Gaza and advocating for Palestinian rights.
(35:30):
We need to engage in boycott campaigns like the BDS, Boycott Divestment and Sanctions,
to pressurize corporations and governments complicit in Israel's apartheid policies.
One way that South Africa won its freedom was through boycott campaigns and international
(35:51):
solidarity. And if we believe that South Africa had to be free from colonized rule for everybody
to be recognized as human beings, then it is a moral imperative for us to be able to take
the same stance internationally, regardless of who those communities are. For healthcare
(36:19):
professionals, activists and community organizers, integrating advocacy into our work can create
meaningful change. We can speak out in professional spaces. And this is what I regard. This is a
professional space. And we are using this platform available to us to speak out. We can push for
(36:40):
policy reform and ensure that ethics and human dignity remain at the center of our fight for
justice. And above all, solidarity is action, whether it's protesting, donating, educating,
organizing. And we've just had our own little education here around the use of the word loss.
(37:04):
And I keep on mentioning it, because it is so important that this part of the colonizing language
coming away of the language we use and how we have unintentionally and how we have internalized
decolonizing language that we're almost afraid to use words such as murder and death.
(37:27):
And we want to cotton some of these phrases. We want to cover it in cotton balls.
Okay. So the world is watching. And history will remember those who stood against oppression.
We are not powerless. And together we can demand accountability and justice.
(37:50):
And that's the tea, honey bee. Shahida, thank you so much for giving your time and being here today.
For those listening and watching, this is actually the second time that we are recording this,
because the first recording wasn't quite up to our standards. So Shahida really has given up a lot
(38:12):
of her time and energy for this episode. I feel like your passion and enthusiasm for activism
and advocating for under-resourced communities has re-energized and revitalized me. You've given me
life. And you're always going to have the distinction of being the first ever guest on the podcast.
(38:42):
Now, before we go, can you tell us what is on the horizon for you?
(39:10):
So I remain deeply committed to providing psychoeducation workshops both within South Africa
and in neighboring countries when the opportunities arise. Recently, I was invited to support lay
community health workers through debriefing sessions and psychoeducation workshops to help
(39:31):
them to navigate the intense emotional toll of supporting others while facing their own
personal challenges. We know in the health profession, these are the least paid and often
unregulated sector of the health profession. And so this project holds immense value for me
(39:52):
personally. And I truly hope to bring it to life. However, securing funding remains a challenge.
So I'm going to plug for this project. If listeners are willing to contribute to the
Institute of Healing of Memories to help make this initiative a reality, it could be greatly appreciated.
(40:16):
So additionally, the group of women I worked with in volunteer role, which was funded by the
Institute, are in the process of documenting their personal stories in profoundly important projects.
And just last night, I was sent the introductory paragraphs to their writing and I was thrilled
(40:39):
and felt so ecstatic that they too are using AI to support them through their writing process.
And these are women who often had to give up or unemployed, they had to give up their education
and have some of them have been domestic workers, factory workers,
(41:01):
and to be able to use the technology of today to tell their stories is just mind blown for me.
So I've been asked to support them during their writing retreat and by facilitating and just
holding space for them during their retreat, guiding them as they bring their narratives
(41:22):
to life. And this to me is the embodiment of my approach to mental health, decolonizing,
empowering, critical and liberating free practices that empower individuals to reclaim
their voices and experiences. And none of this would have been possible without the support of
(41:45):
the Institute, who continues to drive meaningful change in communities. To sustain and expand
ION's vital programs, funding is essential. And once again, I'm going to plan any contribution
to help ensure that more individuals receive the mental health support they need and their
(42:09):
transformative projects like those continue to thrive. And if listeners are able to donate
or to support in any way, it wouldn't be invaluable in making a lasting impact.
Thank you so much for raising that again. I'm definitely going to be looking into the Institute
(42:30):
for Healing of Memories after this and I'll include a link to them in the show notes of this episode.
And just for anyone listening or watching who isn't familiar with it, Bonteheuwel,
that community where those women are working on the narrative project, Bonteheuwel is
(42:51):
severely trauma impacted. It has very high levels of gender-based violence and gang violence.
So that is definitely a project worth supporting. Shahida, is there anything you came to say that
you didn't get to say? I know I said a lot, but I can't leave without saying this.
(43:15):
This interview has been an incredible opportunity to amplify my voice, which is not just my personal
voice. It's actually amplifying the voices of all the people and all the people I've seen
since I've opened my practice, which is just about eight years old. And to shed light on
(43:35):
intersecting issues that many mental health professionals do not often engage with.
It has allowed me to reflect on the complexities of our work and the urgent need for deeper
conversations around mental health accessibility. And Registered Counsellors in South Africa play
a crucial role in bridging the gap between clinical psychology and accessible mental health care.
(44:02):
While some of us do go into private practice, we are frontline practitioners, providing
essential psychosocial support to marginalised communities, activists and individuals facing
systemic barriers to mental health services. Our work extends beyond traditional counselling.
(44:25):
We engage in community advocacy, psychoeducation, preventative work, trauma-enforced interventions
and decolonial approaches to psychological key, whether we are aware of it or not.
Much thanks again to our guest today, activist and Registered Counsellor Shahida Sadek.
(44:49):
I appreciate you. And thanks to you, the listener, for engaging with the podcast
and for your interest in making mental health more intersectional.
If you'd like to hear more exclusive bonus material from my interview with Shahida,
you can join our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash Intersectional Psychology.
(45:14):
In our next episode, I'll be speaking to another Registered Counsellor in Cape Town
called Nisha Chiba about trauma-informed decolonial practice with children.
Until then, take good care of yourself. Bye.
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(45:39):
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(46:05):
Aurora Brown. For a transcript of this episode, please see the link in the show notes on your
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for a full list of references for this episode. A video of this episode with closed captions
(46:29):
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(47:36):
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(00:08):
of country throughout South Africa, and their connections to land, water and community.
We pay our respects to their elders past and present, and extend that respect to all Indigenous
people listening today.
(00:30):
Hello, this is Aurora dropping in with a quick content note.
(00:53):
This episode does include discussions of apartheid, colonialism, haza and gender-based violence.
If you are unable to engage with these topics right now, you are welcome to skip this episode
or come back to it when you feel better resourced.
(01:18):
Thanks for all the lovely feedback on last week's episode.
Today, I am sharing the second half of my interview with Shahidah Sadek.
Enjoy!
Hello and welcome back to Intersectional Psychology, the podcast that explores psychology's role
(01:42):
in promoting social justice.
I am your host, Aurora Brown, I am a registered councillor in Cape Town, South Africa.
I hope you are well.
(02:14):
Over the past few decades, there has been a rise in Islamophobia worldwide.
South Africa has quite a large Muslim population, especially here in the Western Cape, and you
do a lot of work with Muslim clients.
(02:37):
How has this global climate of Islamophobia filtered through to South Africa, and how
does it impact the local Muslim population?
So Islamophobia has manifested in South Africa in various ways, and it has been influenced
by global narratives and local socio-political dynamics.
(02:59):
So while South Africa has a history of religious tolerance, incidents of anti-Muslim sentiment
have surfaced, particularly in the form of hate crimes, discrimination and negative
media portrayals.
So I'll just say a little bit on how I believe Islamophobia has infiltrated the South African
(03:20):
landscape.
So Islamophobic rhetoric from Western countries has shaped the perceptions of Muslims in
South Africa, often linking Islam to extremism.
Online platforms have amplified Islamophobic narratives, sometimes leading to real-world
(03:41):
hostility.
There have been incidents of vandalization, of vandalism and desecration of mosques.
Hate crimes, attacks in Cape Town where mosques were defiled with pig blood.
And these are just some examples.
And some political and religious discussions have framed Muslim communities as security
(04:04):
threats, which reinforces stereotypes.
So what has the impact of this been on Muslims?
It's created a climate of fear and exclusion, affecting the sense of belonging amongst South
African Muslims.
(04:25):
However, at the same time, we do see people from the Muslim community taking the lead
in issues of social justice as a way of reclaiming themselves, reclaiming their place in the
slain, the country of the birth.
This sense of freedom did not exist with the apartheid movement.
(04:46):
The Muslim community has had to navigate theological debates and increase scrutiny,
particularly in public spaces.
I'm not sure if other religions have been subjected to the same kind of scrutiny and
treatment in South Africa.
Muslim leaders and organizations have actively worked to counter Islamophobia, promoting
(05:11):
interfaith dialogue and unity.
This is the same as asking people of color to work harder to prove that they are not
dangerous.
Now, despite these challenges, South Africa's Muslim population continue to play a vital
role in politics, academia, and social justice movements, advocating for religious coexistence
(05:38):
and equity.
So I have some ideas on how to address it and if I could go ahead and share that now.
So to address Islamophobia in South Africa requires strategic activism, policy reform
and community engagement.
(06:00):
Some ways it can be done is to be part of interfaith dialogues to build understanding between
different religious communities, to include in our CPD training dedicated spaces, to issue
all forms of homophobia and to discuss issues of race, class, religious differences, Islamophobia
(06:23):
and other forms of discrimination based on differences.
We need to perhaps develop anti-Islamophobic educational programs for schools, workplaces
and public spaces.
And this is not as prevalent I think in K-town as perhaps in other provinces and we need
(06:45):
to counter misinformation by amplifying Muslim voices through the media, storytelling and
community forums.
Advocates and activists can push the stronger hate crime legislation that explicitly addresses
Islamophobic violence and advocate for anti-discrimination policies in workplaces and institutions to
(07:10):
protect Muslim professionals and students.
Modern media can challenge negative portrayals of Muslims by promoting inclusive storytelling.
Education programs can help people recognize and reject Islamophobic rhetoric.
We can support Muslim-led organizations that focus on justice, equality and social change
(07:37):
and mobilize communities to document and to report Islamophobic incidents which will
thus ensure accountability.
We need to address the psychological impact of Islamophobia, reinforcing cultural identity
and empowerment.
I love that your response is not just to provide support for the Muslim community but also to
(08:02):
address the problem by educating wider society.
I remember when I was in primary school, it was very Christian-oriented.
We would pray in assembly on Monday and the choir would occasionally sing Christian hymns.
I think we might even have had formal religious education from a Christian paradigm.
(08:27):
Now our community was predominantly Christian but not exclusively so.
In high school, I think we had one year of religious education where our teacher valiantly
tried to teach us about religions that she was clueless about and no one really took
(08:48):
it seriously.
But I guess I must also caveat this anecdote with the acknowledgement that I am old.
I was at school during the transition to outcomes-based education which didn't last
long.
I think there might be a different education system in place now.
(09:09):
So I don't know how much religious education there is at the moment.
But wouldn't our society be more tolerant and inclusive if we all understood each other's
faiths and convictions better?
If we have religious education, we should encompass all of the religions.
(09:33):
Yeah, now religious intolerance often causes so much of hate towards people of different
faiths.
Yeah.
Oh, not faiths.
Yeah.
(10:02):
Now, if I recall correctly, your research thesis was on the mental health of lesbian Muslims,
(10:23):
which is quite a niche group, especially if we're talking about openly gay Muslim women.
Can you tell us a bit about your research and about the queer Muslim community in Cape
Town?
So many religious women who don't conform to traditional gender roles or sexual norms
face significant stress.
(10:45):
And this is across religions like Judaism, Christianity and Islam, often seen as patriarchal
and homophobic.
So the experiences of Muslim lesbian women are particularly complex and largely invisible.
So because of the stigma surrounding their identities, many Muslim lesbians in Cape
(11:08):
Town, ironically, in a city often regarded as a gay capital of South Africa, navigate
their lives in secrecy.
So while broader studies on the LGBTIQ plus Muslim community internationally highlight
the challenges of balancing religious faith with sexual identity, there was very little
(11:33):
research on the specific psycho-social difficulties Muslim lesbians face in Cape Town at the time
that I did my research.
I'm hoping that much more research has been done subsequently, talking about eight, nine
years ago.
So my research aimed to change that, knowing that it was probably just going to go sit
(11:58):
on the shelf because it was an honest level research, but I am a hopeless person, not
hopeless, hopeful person.
And yeah, maybe some people would say I'm a hopeless case because I always remain hopeful.
So I used a qualitative, now let me see if I can pronounce this word right, phenomenological
(12:21):
approach that I wanted to give voice to Muslim lesbians and understand their unique spaces.
So the study was guided by the minority stress model, which explores coping mechanisms, barriers
to coping, sources of social support, and patterns of help seeking.
(12:44):
I conducted in-depth face-to-face interviews with six, with six actually not about, with
six participants.
I mean, that's such a small sample.
So sometimes I do feel that because it was such a small sample, how much of voice and
confidence did my research hold, okay, but beyond contributing to academic knowledge,
(13:08):
I hope to do, would have helped to reduce stigma and courage culturally sensitive advocacy
and build bridges between Muslim community, Muslim lesbians and society at large.
And it certainly impacted me in that way as the researcher, it certainly got me to understand
(13:31):
the Muslim lesbian community on a whole different level, and I hope the same for other people.
So lesbian Muslims often navigate intersecting layers of marginalization, facing discrimination
both within religious spaces and the LGBTIQ dust communities.
(13:53):
And some of the key findings from my research included religious stigma, where many struggle
with reconciling their faith and sexuality, particularly in conservative Muslim communities.
There's a lot of family and social pressures, and many of these women feared rejection, over-forced
(14:15):
into secrecy, and therefore led lives, isolated lives, very anxious, highly anxious and stressed,
and that often led to a depression.
They were limited mental health resources for Muslim communities because of the fear
of disclosure.
(14:37):
And very few therapists actually specialized in affirming both queer and Muslim identities,
making access to cultural competent care, I'm talking particularly about Muslim therapists
and counsellors here.
So many Muslim lesbians have coped by connecting with like-minded people and allies, pursuing
(15:01):
their faith privately and outside of mainstream structural spaces, not disclosing to their
family as it felt safe, whilst those whose families knew don't make a big issue of it.
So it's kept secret.
It's not spoken about, it's not embraced openly.
(15:23):
Some coped family clubs and using alcohol.
So unfortunately, my research did not comment on the intersecting struggles of Islamophobia
and homophobia, and it would have really been nice if I had the time, but I was limited
and honest student, not doing PhD, not doing masters, so it was limiting.
(15:49):
Cape Town was also home to the world's first openly gay imam, Mohsin Hendrix.
In a previous episode, I mentioned his brutal assassination earlier this year, but I'm
wondering if your research and work ever brought you into contact with him and the affirming
(16:10):
community he was building for LGBTQIA Muslims.
What would you be willing to share about that?
So first, I just want to say I was absolutely devastated and heartbroken and shocked at the
brutal killing of Imam Mohsin Hendrix.
(16:31):
No human being deserves to have their life taken away in such a manner, and no family
needs to have their loved ones brutalized and taken away in the manner that he was taken
away.
So I had heard of and knew about Mohsin Hendrix before I started my research, but in doing
(16:55):
my research, I got an opportunity to meet with him face to face.
And if it was not through his kindness and his trust in me, I would not have met some
of the participants that I met.
And I went to the inner circle, which was a safe space.
(17:15):
I participated in some of the religious rituals that took place in those spaces.
It was just a most amazing experience with people were absolutely free to just participate
in something that was so dear to their heart.
(17:37):
And for me to have been welcomed into the community and included felt like such an honor.
And for this, I would be forever grateful to Imam Mohsin Hendrix.
He will always hold a very dear place in my heart for if it was not for some of his contacts
(18:00):
or the sampling or what we call Snowball sampling, but in giving me access to some of those people,
my own world would have been narrower and poorer.
So he is one of the people it is, I have been so involved in diversity issues.
(18:22):
But the LGBTQ community was not one that I easily had access to because I don't identify
along that grouping of names.
And so to have been accepted as an ally and to be trusted as an ally has meant such a lot to me.
(18:49):
And because of those experiences, one of the things that I thought I would love to do when I qualify
was actually support Muslim lesbians and also other people on the LGBTQA plus community.
Because for me, everybody's just another human being wanting a place on the sun.
(19:14):
So yeah, so that's when I first made contact with Mohsin Hendrix in person.
(19:44):
You and I have also connected about our support for Palestine and our activism against the
(20:10):
ongoing genocide in Gaza.
South Africa was the first country to bring a case of genocide against Israel to the International Court of Justice.
This case was obviously justified and South Africa did the right thing.
But why do you think South Africa of all the countries in the world feels so strongly about the plight of the Palestinians?
(20:39):
Yeah, so I was just thinking that, you know, as I was just thinking about this question and I wonder why so many years
after 1994, I still have to answer some of these questions.
But let me tell you and let me try and explain that South Africa's strong support for Palestine is deeply rooted in our own
(21:03):
history of colonization, apartheid and resistance.
The country sees parallels between our country sees parallels between our struggles against racial discrimination,
segregation, discrimination and the Palestinian fight against occupation, making solidarity such a natural extension of our own commitment to justice.
(21:31):
The African National Congress and the Palestinian Liberation Organization have had ties since the anti-colonial movements of the 50s and the 60s.
Nelson Mandela, our late president, famously stated, we know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians.
(21:55):
And many South Africans view Israel's policies towards Palestinians as similar to apartheid, particularly in terms of land disposition, restricted movement and systemic discrimination.
South Africa's post-apartheid government has consistently prioritized human rights and anti-colonial struggles, making Palestine a key issue in its international stance.
(22:26):
Bringing the case to the ICJ has influenced global discussions on human rights and international law.
If South Africa hadn't done this, I personally would have been extremely disappointed as a person who voted for this government.
The success of the anti-apartheid boycott has made South Africa a model for global pro-Palestinian activism.
(23:05):
Hello, it's me, Aurora.
Please excuse me interrupting my own podcast.
I'm just here to say that I will never include third-party ads on Intersectional Psychology.
Which is quick because it means that you can be sure all the mental health information and content shared here is free from corporate influence and bias.
(23:32):
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So if you enjoy this podcast or find value in it, please consider joining my Patreon, or Patreon rather, for as little as $3 per month.
(23:53):
Your contributions will be used to improve this podcast, to cover the production costs to research, write, record and edit each episode, and to host our guests.
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(24:18):
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So just go to patreon.com and search for Intersectional Psychology.
Thanks and back to Intersectional Psychology.
(25:18):
Now, in addition to women and children, Israel has also specifically targeted other protected groups of people,
including healthcare workers, journalists and aid workers in Palestine.
Why is it so important for South African healthcare providers specifically to speak out against the genocide in Gaza?
(25:45):
So it's so important because our country's own history of apartheid has lived deep psychological scars,
an experience that allows South African mental health workers to uniquely understand the long-term trauma caused by oppression, violence and displacement.
And in fact, you know, very often, as activists, when we speak about depression, we don't speak about depression, we speak about oppression.
(26:15):
And so in Gaza, civilians are experiencing extreme psychological distress with relentless bombings, loss of loved ones,
children, whole families, children, innocent children being wiped out, displacement and the destruction of entire communities.
(26:39):
The collapse of healthcare services means that mental health support is almost non-existent, leaving survivors to cope with unimaginable grief and anxiety.
And they don't even call it PTSD because it is so ongoing and they don't have professional help, but they are getting together.
(27:03):
They get together in groups, in kitchens, in fields, around so many circles.
And the world has seen evidence of children experiencing severe trauma, families dealing with intergenerational emotional pain and an entire population living in a constant state of fear and uncertainty.
(27:26):
And very recently, some of us may have heard in the news and the name has surpassed me.
A doctor, a doctor was working in a hospital who lost, I think it was seven of her children in a bomb that was targeted at her house.
And their husband and one son survived that bomb blast and are fighting for their lives in hospital.
(27:52):
Yes, she lost nine of her 10 children.
Sure, yeah. I mean, imagine, and here you are, providing health support with the little and the broken down resources and to have your own family arrive in the way that they do and then to have to build up the courage to continue supporting those who need you the most.
(28:18):
So mental health professions are guided by ethical principles that prioritize care, advocacy and social justice.
Remaining silent in the face of such large scale psychological devastation contradicts those core values.
South African mental health workers have a responsibility not only to provide support for those affected locally, but also to raise global awareness of the profound mental health crisis that is unfolding in Gaza, but which has started during the days of the NACPA.
(28:58):
But yet they're resilience.
So and that is why I say that is ongoing stress that is not post traumatic stress disorder cannot apply such a label to the people of Palestine.
So by speaking out, mental health workers can highlight the urgent need for intervention, advocate for trauma informed policies,
(29:20):
and stand against the normalization of psychological harm inflicted on an entire population that is appropriate and relevant to them.
We cannot take our models and nicely place in while there are similarities between South Africa and Palestine.
There are also differences.
(29:41):
And so we need to provide the kind of support and speak out for the kind of support that is appropriate for that community in terms of how best they can receive it.
And if they want to, maybe they don't need us to come in and do individual counselling.
Maybe what they need for us is to advocate around other issues.
(30:04):
So silence allows suffering to continue unchecked, but advocacy can drive change.
If as a country, we are determined as healthcare workers to heal the wounds of our collective trauma and collective traumatic past, we will understand that Western psychology often pathologizes
(30:27):
Palestinian resistance or any resistance by the oppressed, labeling such responses as aggression or irrational behavior.
We will understand further that mainstream psychology can reinforce colonial narratives by failing to acknowledge structural violence as a mental health determinant.
(30:50):
A critical and decolonial lens will reframe trauma, anxiety and depression in Palestinian communities within the context of occupation and global injustices rather than individual pathology.
Understanding the parallels between what is happening in Palestine and what has happened in South Africa may create the impetus much needed in our country for collective healing.
(31:23):
South African healthcare workers have a unique moral and historical responsibility to speak out against the genocide in Gaza.
Given the country's legacy of anti-apartheid resistance, human rights advocacy and medical solidarity.
And this is why their voices are crucial. Healing is just not personal. It is political.
(31:50):
Mental health professionals must actively challenge narratives that erase Palestinian suffering.
And uplift frameworks that foster resilience, resistance and liberation.
And I just want to acknowledge by name that doctor that we mentioned and also correct my own language.
(32:15):
Dr. Allah Al-Najja didn't lose any of her children. While she was caring for the injured in hospital,
nine of her 10 children were murdered in her home. Our deepest condolences go out to her and her surviving family.
(32:37):
Did I say lose?
Please.
That was absolutely incorrect. No.
She did not lose her children. They were murdered.
It was very, very a targeted murder of her children.
And a targeted bombing of her family.
(33:02):
Thank you for, thank you for highlighting that I use the word lose. And it just shows how
we ourselves can sometimes forget the language we use and how we can minimize
the absolute loss that this mom, this mother must be feeling at the brutal death of her children.
(33:27):
Absolutely. And I think that ties in with our whole theme of decolonialization today.
I mean, we were all raised in this colonial framework and decolonization is an ongoing process.
And it's something that we also have to grow and learn and unlearn every day. So yeah, thank you Shahida.
(33:53):
Okay. And how can other listeners get more involved in bringing an end to this crime?
So the ongoing, it's unrelenting. It feels like, you know, it only started in October two years back.
But this is a, this has started long, long before. And it's a humanitarian crisis that
(34:17):
demands immediate action. This is not just a Palestinian issue. It is a fight against
colonial violence, displacement, and systemic oppression that affects marginalized communities
worldwide. And each of us therefore has a role to play in bringing an end to this crime, to these
(34:38):
crimes. And firstly, we can start by educating ourselves and others. We can share accurate
information. Just as you just said earlier on, when I inadvertently used the word lost,
more accurately, those children were murdered. And that's accurate information. Losing them,
(35:03):
they did not go out to play and get lost in a park. No, that's not what happened. We need to
challenge harmful narratives, which is what you did with me in this space now.
And we need to amplify Palestinian voices. We need to support grassroots movements and
organizations providing direct aid to Gaza and advocating for Palestinian rights.
(35:30):
We need to engage in boycott campaigns like the BDS, Boycott Divestment and Sanctions,
to pressurize corporations and governments complicit in Israel's apartheid policies.
One way that South Africa won its freedom was through boycott campaigns and international
(35:51):
solidarity. And if we believe that South Africa had to be free from colonized rule for everybody
to be recognized as human beings, then it is a moral imperative for us to be able to take
the same stance internationally, regardless of who those communities are. For healthcare
(36:19):
professionals, activists and community organizers, integrating advocacy into our work can create
meaningful change. We can speak out in professional spaces. And this is what I regard. This is a
professional space. And we are using this platform available to us to speak out. We can push for
(36:40):
policy reform and ensure that ethics and human dignity remain at the center of our fight for
justice. And above all, solidarity is action, whether it's protesting, donating, educating,
organizing. And we've just had our own little education here around the use of the word loss.
(37:04):
And I keep on mentioning it, because it is so important that this part of the colonizing language
coming away of the language we use and how we have unintentionally and how we have internalized
decolonizing language that we're almost afraid to use words such as murder and death.
(37:27):
And we want to cotton some of these phrases. We want to cover it in cotton balls.
Okay. So the world is watching. And history will remember those who stood against oppression.
We are not powerless. And together we can demand accountability and justice.
(37:50):
And that's the tea, honey bee. Shahida, thank you so much for giving your time and being here today.
For those listening and watching, this is actually the second time that we are recording this,
because the first recording wasn't quite up to our standards. So Shahida really has given up a lot
(38:12):
of her time and energy for this episode. I feel like your passion and enthusiasm for activism
and advocating for under-resourced communities has re-energized and revitalized me. You've given me
life. And you're always going to have the distinction of being the first ever guest on the podcast.
(38:42):
Now, before we go, can you tell us what is on the horizon for you?
(39:10):
So I remain deeply committed to providing psychoeducation workshops both within South Africa
and in neighboring countries when the opportunities arise. Recently, I was invited to support lay
community health workers through debriefing sessions and psychoeducation workshops to help
(39:31):
them to navigate the intense emotional toll of supporting others while facing their own
personal challenges. We know in the health profession, these are the least paid and often
unregulated sector of the health profession. And so this project holds immense value for me
(39:52):
personally. And I truly hope to bring it to life. However, securing funding remains a challenge.
So I'm going to plug for this project. If listeners are willing to contribute to the
Institute of Healing of Memories to help make this initiative a reality, it could be greatly appreciated.
(40:16):
So additionally, the group of women I worked with in volunteer role, which was funded by the
Institute, are in the process of documenting their personal stories in profoundly important projects.
And just last night, I was sent the introductory paragraphs to their writing and I was thrilled
(40:39):
and felt so ecstatic that they too are using AI to support them through their writing process.
And these are women who often had to give up or unemployed, they had to give up their education
and have some of them have been domestic workers, factory workers,
(41:01):
and to be able to use the technology of today to tell their stories is just mind blown for me.
So I've been asked to support them during their writing retreat and by facilitating and just
holding space for them during their retreat, guiding them as they bring their narratives
(41:22):
to life. And this to me is the embodiment of my approach to mental health, decolonizing,
empowering, critical and liberating free practices that empower individuals to reclaim
their voices and experiences. And none of this would have been possible without the support of
(41:45):
the Institute, who continues to drive meaningful change in communities. To sustain and expand
ION's vital programs, funding is essential. And once again, I'm going to plan any contribution
to help ensure that more individuals receive the mental health support they need and their
(42:09):
transformative projects like those continue to thrive. And if listeners are able to donate
or to support in any way, it wouldn't be invaluable in making a lasting impact.
Thank you so much for raising that again. I'm definitely going to be looking into the Institute
(42:30):
for Healing of Memories after this and I'll include a link to them in the show notes of this episode.
And just for anyone listening or watching who isn't familiar with it, Bonteheuwel,
that community where those women are working on the narrative project, Bonteheuwel is
(42:51):
severely trauma impacted. It has very high levels of gender-based violence and gang violence.
So that is definitely a project worth supporting. Shahida, is there anything you came to say that
you didn't get to say? I know I said a lot, but I can't leave without saying this.
(43:15):
This interview has been an incredible opportunity to amplify my voice, which is not just my personal
voice. It's actually amplifying the voices of all the people and all the people I've seen
since I've opened my practice, which is just about eight years old. And to shed light on
(43:35):
intersecting issues that many mental health professionals do not often engage with.
It has allowed me to reflect on the complexities of our work and the urgent need for deeper
conversations around mental health accessibility. And Registered Counsellors in South Africa play
a crucial role in bridging the gap between clinical psychology and accessible mental health care.
(44:02):
While some of us do go into private practice, we are frontline practitioners, providing
essential psychosocial support to marginalised communities, activists and individuals facing
systemic barriers to mental health services. Our work extends beyond traditional counselling.
(44:25):
We engage in community advocacy, psychoeducation, preventative work, trauma-enforced interventions
and decolonial approaches to psychological key, whether we are aware of it or not.
Much thanks again to our guest today, activist and Registered Counsellor Shahida Sadek.
(44:49):
I appreciate you. And thanks to you, the listener, for engaging with the podcast
and for your interest in making mental health more intersectional.
If you'd like to hear more exclusive bonus material from my interview with Shahida,
you can join our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash Intersectional Psychology.
(45:14):
In our next episode, I'll be speaking to another Registered Counsellor in Cape Town
called Nisha Chiba about trauma-informed decolonial practice with children.
Until then, take good care of yourself. Bye.
Thank you for listening to Intersectional Psychology. Please follow or subscribe to
(45:39):
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This episode of Intersectional Psychology was researched, written, recorded and edited by me,
(46:05):
Aurora Brown. For a transcript of this episode, please see the link in the show notes on your
podcast app or go to intersectionalsychology.com. You can also check the website or the show notes
for a full list of references for this episode. A video of this episode with closed captions
(46:29):
is available on youtube.com forward slash at Intersectional Psychology.
To support this podcast and get access to bonus content, including additional episodes and interviews,
as well as more guided mindfulness sessions, please go to patreon.com forward slash intersectional
(46:52):
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(47:13):
Aurora Brown and Intersectional Psychology are committed to the site black women praxis.
All episodes of Intersectional Psychology are for educational purposes only and are not intended
to be a substitute for professional mental health advice, diagnosis or treatment.
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I, Aurora Brown, am not able to answer specific questions about individual situations.
Always seek the advice of your health provider with any questions you may have regarding a mental
health condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because
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of something you have heard or seen on this podcast. If you think you need immediate assistance,
please call your local emergency number or any mental health crisis hotline.
Everyone deserves good mental health.
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