11. More AI, More Humanity: Ben Gordon Sniffen on the Alpha School Model

In this episode, Guide and curriculum designer Ben Gordon Sniffen pulls back the curtain on Alpha School’s two-hour learning model, where an AI tutor condenses core academics into a focused morning block and frees guides for passion-driven life-skills workshops in the afternoon.

Listen in as Ben explains:

• How 120 minutes of adaptive learning hits each child’s “productive-struggle” zone.

• The role of guides as emotional & motivational coaches, and why more AI means more adults

• Real-world workshop wins, from third-graders pitching businesses to middle-schoolers coding robot

• Teaching AI literacy: getting students to critique ChatGPT drafts instead of outsourcing thinking

• A hopeful vision for the future of work where human mentorship matters more

Connect and Resources

I hope you enjoyed hearing Ben Gordon Sniffen’s perspective on Alpha’s two-hour learning model and student-driven life-skills workshops. If you’re curious to see the model in action, or to follow Ben’s ongoing work at the intersection of AI and education, here are a few easy ways to connect:

• Alpha School Official Website – Explore the two-hour learning structure, outcomes data, and campus locations. Visit the website: alpha.school
• Connect with Ben on LinkedIn – Follow Ben’s reflections on AI-powered tutoring, curriculum design, and student coaching. Connect on LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/benjamin-gordon-sniffen-423a91229
• 2-Hour Learning Model Overview – Watch a short explainer and see sample schedules that condense core academics into a focused morning block. Read the overview: alpha.school/2-hour-learning
• Adaptive-Learning Apps Mentioned – Khan Academy, IXL, Newsela, and EGUMPP power personalized practice across subjects. Explore the apps: khanacademy.org | ixl.com | newsela.com | egumpp.com
• AI Research Tools – Try ChatGPT or Perplexity AI for cited summaries, brainstorming, and deeper dives into any topic. Start exploring openai.com/chatgpt | perplexity.ai

 

For more support from our team in implementing human-centered AI strategy, go to kinwise.org to explore our pilot program and custom resources. 

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to Kin Wise Conversations, where we explore what it means to integrate AI into our work and lives with care, clarity, and creativity.
Each episode we talk with everyday leaders navigating these powerful tools, balancing innovation with intention and technology with humanity.
I'm your host, Lydia Kumar. 4 00:00:24,636.432875145 --> 00:00:28,236.432875145 Today we're stepping into the future of education with Ben Gordon Sniffen. 5 00:00:28,536.432875145 --> 00:00:33,396.432875145 A Guide at Alpha, an innovative school built on a two hour learning model. 6 00:00:33,576.432875145 --> 00:00:43,446.432875145 The model splits the day between a highly focused academic block, powered by an AI tutor, and an afternoon dedicated to project-based life skills like entrepreneurship and public speaking. 7 00:00:43,841.432875145 --> 00:00:49,481.432875145 The structure is designed to accelerate core learning while freeing up guides for deep human-centered mentorship. 8 00:00:49,931.432875145 --> 00:00:57,102.432875145 Ben shares how this unique structure works in practice, how students learn to critique AI and what the model suggests for the future of work and learning. 9 00:01:02,764.377791072 --> 00:01:03,244.377791072 Hi Ben. 10 00:01:03,244.377791072 --> 00:01:05,554.377791072 Thank you so much for being on the podcast today. 11 00:01:05,764.377791072 --> 00:01:10,804.377791072 I'm really excited to learn about your work with, alpha Schools and the two Hour Learning Model. 12 00:01:11,54.377791072 --> 00:01:13,884.377791072 for listeners who are, meeting you for the first time. 13 00:01:13,884.377791072 --> 00:01:20,984.377791072 So I know you have been involved with English and computer science studies in this world of Alpha and two Hour learning. 14 00:01:21,344.377791072 --> 00:01:25,454.377791072 I wanna give you a chance to kind of orient listeners to who you are. 15 00:01:25,614.377791072 --> 00:01:26,214.377791072 tell your story. 16 00:01:26,214.377791072 --> 00:01:31,993.938500917 how did you end up where you're at? What do people need to know about you coming into this conversation? Yeah, happily. 17 00:01:31,993.938500917 --> 00:01:34,513.938500917 First off, Lydia, thank you for having me. 18 00:01:34,513.938500917 --> 00:01:36,223.938500917 I'm very excited to be here as well. 19 00:01:36,223.938500917 --> 00:01:38,743.938500917 Great to meet you and all of the listeners. 20 00:01:38,743.938500917 --> 00:01:43,273.93850092 I think Alpha As as a school, requires a lot of orientation. 21 00:01:43,273.93850092 --> 00:01:45,418.93850092 It required a lot of orientation for me to be. 22 00:01:45,863.93850092 --> 00:01:51,83.93850092 When I'm talking with parents, I always say we're a three to four conversation school. 23 00:01:51,113.93850092 --> 00:01:56,383.93850092 it's a very robust and different model, and I think that's what attracted me to it in the first place. 24 00:01:56,383.93850092 --> 00:02:00,103.93850092 Both my parents, you know, go back through the origin story. 25 00:02:00,103.93850092 --> 00:02:01,724.93850092 Both my parents worked in public schools for. 26 00:02:02,533.93850092 --> 00:02:15,933.93850092 Their entire lives as social workers and I always saw education as a place I would land, not a place I would start, but about halfway through college, I was coaching track and, and I just loved that. 27 00:02:16,423.93850092 --> 00:02:35,353.93850092 child-centered element that child-centered work and, and Alpha was just a really generous fusion of a place where I could, you know, enter early and have a lot of responsibility and a lot of room to grow while I'm doing the role of an educator and working really closely with kids and learning a lot of curriculum development stuff. 28 00:02:35,353.93850092 --> 00:02:37,3.93850092 So I think selfishly what. 29 00:02:37,648.93850092 --> 00:02:45,988.93850092 What drove me, there was an opportunity to take on responsibilities that are usually reserved for more, you know, veteran teachers in very different environments. 30 00:02:46,438.93850092 --> 00:02:55,588.93850092 And you, I mean, to your, to your point about English and computer science, I came from one of the places where you're able to do English and computer science. 31 00:02:55,588.93850092 --> 00:02:56,518.93850092 I went to Davidson College. 32 00:02:56,518.93850092 --> 00:02:57,808.93850092 I was at a liberal arts school. 33 00:02:58,48.93850092 --> 00:02:58,828.93850092 I loved it. 34 00:02:58,828.93850092 --> 00:03:06,148.93850092 I loved the ethos of liberal arts, taking away all the other connotations, and it felt that alpha. 35 00:03:06,553.93850092 --> 00:03:20,593.93850092 Was, and now that I've been in the model for so long, it is this sort of hyper modern liberal arts school where there is so much inquiry and space for inquiry and discussion, but just structured in a different way. 36 00:03:20,593.93850092 --> 00:03:28,633.93850092 But I think fundamentally a lot of things that appealed to me about my own education were a place that I could find in Alpha and a place I could find really early on. 37 00:03:29,488.93850092 --> 00:03:30,298.93850092 That's really cool. 38 00:03:30,388.93850092 --> 00:03:43,418.93850092 could you walk our listeners through what makes Alpha different? Or what are the structures that set Alpha up to be what it is? Yeah, we can, well, I think we can even run through, I mean, I think even just on the surface level. 39 00:03:43,823.93850092 --> 00:03:44,813.93850092 Very distinct. 40 00:03:45,713.93850092 --> 00:03:49,43.93850092 By the time it's 9:00 AM you know, even the morning meeting is different. 41 00:03:49,43.93850092 --> 00:04:01,313.93850092 Instead of having a circle discussion, playing games with a, a teacher and you know, para is in a group of 2020 children, it's a level of about 10 to 15 kids and three adults going through a growth mindset, exer exercise. 42 00:04:01,313.93850092 --> 00:04:06,773.93850092 That is really the guiding principle that in some ways sets us apart. 43 00:04:06,773.93850092 --> 00:04:08,843.93850092 I know growth mindset, language has become politic. 44 00:04:08,843.93850092 --> 00:04:13,133.93850092 A lot of schools use it in a lot of different ways, but it really is the, the foundational tenet. 45 00:04:13,853.93850092 --> 00:04:19,43.93850092 Of Alpha and, and it's how our, our children begin our day before they go into their academic work. 46 00:04:19,43.93850092 --> 00:04:22,13.93850092 And that is the most visually distinct from a regular school. 47 00:04:22,13.93850092 --> 00:04:23,123.93850092 they're on computers. 48 00:04:23,123.93850092 --> 00:04:26,733.93850092 They're learning through adaptive apps with an AI to there. 49 00:04:26,733.93850092 --> 00:04:28,863.93850092 And that takes up those first two hours of the day. 50 00:04:29,73.93850092 --> 00:04:30,123.93850092 They do a lot of work. 51 00:04:30,123.93850092 --> 00:04:34,383.93850092 The work that they do is really hard, but it's also targeted to their specific needs at that time. 52 00:04:34,906.2322346 --> 00:04:37,36.2322346 There's also, a whole system around it. 53 00:04:37,36.2322346 --> 00:04:37,996.2322346 It's an entire model. 54 00:04:37,996.2322346 --> 00:04:43,176.2322346 It's not just the siloed piece of software, where we do have motivational models and there's strong adult support. 55 00:04:43,176.2322346 --> 00:04:45,576.2322346 There's never gonna be a ratio of greater than 10 to one. 56 00:04:45,576.2322346 --> 00:04:52,96.2322346 And my job as a guide, that's my title, not a teacher, but a guide, is to really be the emotional and motivational support. 57 00:04:52,96.2322346 --> 00:04:58,876.2322346 I think it's something you'll see from a lot of counselors in a more traditional school, but it's, it's more constant. 58 00:04:58,876.2322346 --> 00:05:01,576.2322346 And I have so much time individually with my. 59 00:05:01,656.2322346 --> 00:05:12,726.2322346 Students during the day, both while they're working and then afterwards once we go into the afternoon, you know that that verb from Guide to Teach does change a little bit and, and we'll go into Life Skills workshop. 60 00:05:12,726.2322346 --> 00:05:16,446.2322346 Now, what life skills mean for us may be different than the, than the context. 61 00:05:16,446.2322346 --> 00:05:21,351.2322346 For us, it's things like critical thinking, public speaking, financial literacy, and entrepre. 62 00:05:22,426.2322346 --> 00:05:28,156.2322346 And the way our, our school year is broken down is into five sessions and workshops typically run for a session. 63 00:05:28,156.2322346 --> 00:05:33,556.2322346 So children as early as second grade, are doing an eight week long public speaking workshop. 64 00:05:33,556.2322346 --> 00:05:41,826.2322346 We have third graders building their own businesses in the entrepreneurship workshop, and that's scaffolded up through, later elementary years and middle school too. 65 00:05:42,153.5703547 --> 00:05:45,333.5703547 So what I'm hearing is in the morning you have two hours. 66 00:05:45,333.5703547 --> 00:06:06,543.5703547 You're doing some sort of tech based ai, adaptive learning, and then you're moving into the afternoon and you're able to really dive deep and not necessarily even be on a computer, or maybe you are, but you're doing that public speaking, you're thinking about what you wanna explore, It feels very comprehensive, I guess, if you're able to do that targeted learning and then, able to explore other skills in the other parts of the day. 67 00:06:07,263.5703547 --> 00:06:08,583.5703547 I think it is really comprehensive. 68 00:06:09,228.5703547 --> 00:06:11,268.5703547 In the way that's very generous to the students. 69 00:06:11,268.5703547 --> 00:06:17,388.5703547 It's not just you have this broad curriculum that is so robust, you have to include everything. 70 00:06:17,608.5703547 --> 00:06:25,378.5703547 going back to sort of the verb of my title being guide, rather than Teach, it's about guiding students to places and projects that really align with. 71 00:06:25,688.5703547 --> 00:06:26,588.5703547 Their passions. 72 00:06:26,588.5703547 --> 00:06:37,833.5703547 I think one of the things that's so interesting about our curriculum is yes, we commit to teach all these different life skills, public speaking, critical thinking, entrepreneurship, teamwork, but the medium through which we teach them. 73 00:06:38,788.5703547 --> 00:06:41,158.5703547 Is completely generated based on the kids. 74 00:06:41,158.5703547 --> 00:06:51,108.5703547 Every session is bespoke and if we have, you know, a group of kids who are super into robotics, then we can do a pair programming workshop or a robotic construction workshop. 75 00:06:51,158.5703547 --> 00:06:52,658.5703547 So we're always iterating. 76 00:06:52,658.5703547 --> 00:07:00,818.5703547 And because we have five sessions per year, we have five different chances to, you know, get it right and make sure what we're teaching really aligns with what excites our students. 77 00:07:01,298.5703547 --> 00:07:12,664.68349673 How do you approach learning about what excites your students? What does that look like for you as a guide? Yeah, that's a great question, and I think it happens more informally than people think. 78 00:07:12,724.68349673 --> 00:07:25,54.68349673 You know, we do have a lot of breaks during the day and a lot of the chances I get to interact with my students are out at recess where we call it Q break, playing pickleball with them, and it's a lot of rapport building, especially in that first session. 79 00:07:25,54.68349673 --> 00:07:27,64.68349673 You know, it is still a school and kids don't know you. 80 00:07:27,234.68349673 --> 00:07:31,249.68349673 It takes a while for them to trust you, but it also takes a lot of formal moments. 81 00:07:31,249.68349673 --> 00:07:37,759.68349673 We have at least one session of 30 minutes, one-on-one coaching with each student for each guide every week. 82 00:07:38,239.68349673 --> 00:07:45,494.68349673 So in those what we call limitless meetings, that's the most formal and comprehensive way to get to know these students. 83 00:07:45,704.68349673 --> 00:07:48,74.68349673 It's a lot of social emotional coaching. 84 00:07:48,74.68349673 --> 00:07:51,14.68349673 You know, what we ask these kids to do is really, really hard. 85 00:07:51,14.68349673 --> 00:07:52,814.68349673 I don't wanna understate that. 86 00:07:53,484.68349673 --> 00:07:56,964.68349673 A lot of the high support that, we bring in is executive functioning coaching. 87 00:07:56,964.68349673 --> 00:08:01,424.68349673 Trying to give them strategies to manage and do even better than they have before. 88 00:08:01,424.68349673 --> 00:08:02,534.68349673 Constantly be improving. 89 00:08:02,534.68349673 --> 00:08:12,344.68349673 Going back to some of my growth mindset thoughts before, but within those conversations, there's also a lot of time for students to just talk about what excites 'em. 90 00:08:12,344.68349673 --> 00:08:14,594.68349673 It doesn't have to be combined to. 91 00:08:14,979.68349673 --> 00:08:16,89.68349673 The school ball. 92 00:08:16,89.68349673 --> 00:08:18,99.68349673 In fact, it's actually better if it's off campus. 93 00:08:18,99.68349673 --> 00:08:32,279.68349673 You know, what are you doing? Are there sports you're playing outside of school? Do you play an instrument? And typically when kids feel emboldened to bring in those things that they're excited about, when no teachers are around, when no guides are around, it really strengthens the relationship with a guide. 94 00:08:32,279.68349673 --> 00:08:40,437.07466842 I always think, and I think to your point about what makes Alpha different, I think a lot of it is about the formative adult relationships, right? If you look at. 95 00:08:40,867.92827173 --> 00:08:48,487.92827173 Indicators of success, one of the number one indicators for student success is positive and sustained adult relationships. 96 00:08:48,517.92827173 --> 00:08:48,637.92827173 Mm-hmm. 97 00:08:48,789.37521543 --> 00:08:53,79.37521543 Me, for me, in my job, that is always my North Star. 98 00:08:53,799.37521543 --> 00:09:08,439.37521543 And I think what I love about Alpha is I was so lucky to have teachers who believed in me and connected with me and probably gave me more grace than they should have to, you know, see me grow into the person I became. 99 00:09:08,739.37521543 --> 00:09:10,329.37521543 But when I connected with them. 100 00:09:10,749.37521543 --> 00:09:14,79.37521543 I was usually connecting with them over what they were passionate about, and that's great. 101 00:09:14,79.37521543 --> 00:09:17,349.37521543 It's awesome to have adults introduce kids to new concepts. 102 00:09:17,641.01580656 --> 00:09:21,811.01580656 But, you know, I was my physics teacher and I got really into physics, and that was sort of a fleeting passion. 103 00:09:21,811.01580656 --> 00:09:29,491.01580656 I had an amazing track coach who eventually pushed me to run track in college and now, right? The thought of running more than five miles horrifies me. 104 00:09:29,551.01580656 --> 00:09:32,336.01580656 I kind of lost that, but I think is so exciting about alpha. 105 00:09:32,826.01580656 --> 00:09:38,406.01580656 I get to connect with kids in very early years about the things that they're super passionate about. 106 00:09:38,706.01580656 --> 00:09:46,326.01580656 I know nothing about jewelry that I was able to work with one of my students on a limitless project about getting investment for her jewelry business. 107 00:09:46,326.01580656 --> 00:09:49,626.01580656 I was able to pair a life skills she really needed to work on public speaking. 108 00:09:50,91.01580656 --> 00:09:59,91.01580656 That's something she was really passionate about and we went out and she pitched to investors to get investment for her jewelry business, and that was not something that was driven by me. 109 00:09:59,151.01580656 --> 00:10:01,311.01580656 It was certainly guided, but it didn't come from me. 110 00:10:01,311.01580656 --> 00:10:06,231.01580656 I can't tell you how many conversations about anime I've had with with my students. 111 00:10:06,231.01580656 --> 00:10:09,591.01580656 I am not an anime guy, but I think when you're able to invite. 112 00:10:10,152.19825672 --> 00:10:39,554.79775752 What excites and what stokes student curiosity, you really transform that relationship early on into one that is more trusting That is really interesting to think about and I'm curious how do you feel like the AI tools that you have enable the opportunities for you to build these relationships? I worked, before I did this podcast, I worked in traditional public schools and the days are really busy, right? Like, yeah. 113 00:10:39,664.79775752 --> 00:10:47,224.79775752 I feel like part of the challenge of building these kind of relationships is you have a lot of students and you don't have a lot of downtime. 114 00:10:47,274.79775752 --> 00:10:51,324.79775752 it's a lot of structured time and I guess I'm curious about a couple of things. 115 00:10:51,574.79775752 --> 00:11:00,814.79775752 That I feel like I'm hearing that make alpha different and also maybe enable this relationship pieces, the ai, so I'm curious about that and the adult to student ratio. 116 00:11:00,864.79775752 --> 00:11:03,324.79775752 No, I think that's good and I'll even start with the second one. 117 00:11:03,324.79775752 --> 00:11:17,394.79775752 I think it's a little counterintuitive and a lot of alpha, and hopefully you know, the direction that that EdTech is going is making us question a lot of assumptions about the role of AI and the role of automation and supplementation in education. 118 00:11:17,394.79775752 --> 00:11:27,204.79775752 Because I think intuitively, oh, more AI support means we'll need less adult supervision, or we'll need less adult support because the AI can take care of it. 119 00:11:27,654.79775752 --> 00:11:29,274.79775752 What we find actually. 120 00:11:30,39.79775752 --> 00:11:41,439.79775752 Is when you use ai, you can free up a lot of those tedious moments that are, are keeping teachers, I don't wanna say away from kids, but in the world that is preparing to be with kids instead of actually being with them. 121 00:11:41,769.79775752 --> 00:11:45,739.79775752 For us, it sounds odd, but with AI we don't have prep periods. 122 00:11:46,19.79775752 --> 00:11:50,399.79775752 the work that we're doing can be condensed To the beginning of the school day or after school. 123 00:11:50,399.79775752 --> 00:11:54,539.79775752 The administrative tasks are a lower burden because we don't have to grade work. 124 00:11:54,539.79775752 --> 00:11:57,809.79775752 A lot of the AI and adaptive apps do that for us. 125 00:11:57,809.79775752 --> 00:12:06,989.79775752 Yes, we're building out workshops, but it's supplemented by the AI and also by all of our other guides, our colleagues who have their own ideas and they're working with AI themselves. 126 00:12:06,989.79775752 --> 00:12:11,909.79775752 So it's a very quick acceleration through the building out of the curriculum and. 127 00:12:12,544.79775752 --> 00:12:20,974.79775752 Once we can sort of shorten that time much as our students do with their learning, that time is freed up to be with the kids, to be that emotional and motivational support. 128 00:12:20,974.79775752 --> 00:12:28,139.79775752 and I really do think it is about the model more than any siloed product, For four decades of learning science. 129 00:12:28,139.79775752 --> 00:12:28,379.79775752 Right. 130 00:12:28,429.79775752 --> 00:12:34,969.79775752 for a student to be successful, you need material that is at the right level of difficulty. 131 00:12:35,49.79775752 --> 00:12:41,969.79775752 You know, productive struggle, maybe if it's a worksheet, about 80 to five to 90% accuracy, so they're getting some wrong, so they're forced to go back. 132 00:12:41,969.79775752 --> 00:12:42,929.79775752 You don't want it too easy. 133 00:12:43,169.79775752 --> 00:12:47,339.79775752 Of course, you don't want it to be too hard to be discouraging, but you also need them to be motivated. 134 00:12:47,719.79775752 --> 00:12:56,509.79775752 And I think our afternoons is what really excites and keeps kids motivated because once they get through that morning, they know they have that super exciting elements of the afternoon. 135 00:12:56,779.79775752 --> 00:13:01,669.79775752 Now, I think that also can sound like we're making kids just eat their vegetables, and that's not true. 136 00:13:01,669.79775752 --> 00:13:03,829.79775752 I mean, these kids do love the mornings too. 137 00:13:03,829.79775752 --> 00:13:12,949.79775752 I've actually had more conversations with parents about getting kids to stop doing homework in that based learning at home than making them do it because it is a very gamified experience. 138 00:13:12,949.79775752 --> 00:13:14,449.79775752 It's very generous to kids. 139 00:13:14,969.79775752 --> 00:13:22,859.79775752 Gives them this confidence and when we're trying to build self-concept and really instill those growth mindset principles, kids connect with the things that they're good at. 140 00:13:23,99.79775752 --> 00:13:31,769.79775752 And I think our educational model and the AI makes them feel really good at it because it's at a level of difficulty where they can struggle but still succeed. 141 00:13:32,229.96747032 --> 00:13:37,29.96747032 So they're doing all like, you know, your English, your math, your science, your history. 142 00:13:37,29.96747032 --> 00:13:37,119.96747032 Mm-hmm. 143 00:13:37,359.96747032 --> 00:13:38,259.96747032 That's all. 144 00:13:38,319.96747032 --> 00:13:43,894.96747032 That's all in the AI app or is there, are there more subjects? Like what does that look? You know, I think it looks. 145 00:13:45,109.96747032 --> 00:13:48,679.96747032 It looks not unfamiliar to something an adult could do. 146 00:13:48,679.96747032 --> 00:13:51,799.96747032 And, and maybe a good metaphor is, you know, where adults fail. 147 00:13:51,799.96747032 --> 00:13:55,124.96747032 I, I don't, I don't know if you've ever done a Coursera course or mm-hmm. 148 00:13:55,224.96747032 --> 00:13:59,239.96747032 Or any of those online things, right? There's great content out there. 149 00:13:59,239.96747032 --> 00:14:01,39.96747032 There's a lot of ways you can learn. 150 00:14:01,219.96747032 --> 00:14:07,749.96747032 There are these modules where, you know, you're getting the instructional material and then you have to do the problems at the back of the book to actually prove that you know it. 151 00:14:08,199.96747032 --> 00:14:10,779.96747032 The problem with Coursera and all those apps is. 152 00:14:11,394.96747032 --> 00:14:14,184.96747032 Never the material, it's the motivation to do it. 153 00:14:14,184.96747032 --> 00:14:19,554.96747032 I mean, the attrition rate on Coursera is like 90%, 50% of people don't even get past the first lesson. 154 00:14:19,944.96747032 --> 00:14:29,94.96747032 So I think what's, what's really special and what it looks like, it's kids doing the things that, you know, adults will download because they wanna upscale and then, you know, never get around to it. 155 00:14:29,194.96747032 --> 00:14:33,94.96747032 but it is, you know, modules, it, it's a mix of, of third party and proprietary apps. 156 00:14:33,94.96747032 --> 00:14:35,494.96747032 We use IXL because IXL. 157 00:14:35,654.96747032 --> 00:14:38,384.96747032 Multi-step program problems for fourth and fifth graders. 158 00:14:38,594.96747032 --> 00:14:41,84.96747032 As difficult as it is for them, it's great practice. 159 00:14:41,84.96747032 --> 00:14:44,894.96747032 Khan Academy has unbelievable modules for middle school science. 160 00:14:44,924.96747032 --> 00:14:47,144.96747032 E Gump, great for high school language. 161 00:14:47,384.96747032 --> 00:14:49,874.96747032 And then we saw some gaps, you know, for reading comprehension. 162 00:14:49,874.96747032 --> 00:14:52,174.96747032 There are good apps, you know, Newsela has its merits. 163 00:14:52,174.96747032 --> 00:14:58,24.96747032 But we saw that we wanted to be able to create something that can match student interests and. 164 00:14:58,764.96747032 --> 00:15:02,304.96747032 Suppose age appropriate content with reading level. 165 00:15:02,424.96747032 --> 00:15:14,424.96747032 So what our reading app does is it takes, a first grade student who's reading at a sixth grade level and generates content, generates, an article, about something that is age appropriate, For a first grader. 166 00:15:14,424.96747032 --> 00:15:19,554.96747032 But at a, at Lexi level, the reading difficulty level that that is still going to, to challenge them. 167 00:15:19,554.96747032 --> 00:15:23,244.96747032 There was, you know, a gap that we saw that the academics team created. 168 00:15:23,244.96747032 --> 00:15:25,289.96747032 And as you know, as much as we use ai, we also have. 169 00:15:25,579.96747032 --> 00:15:40,509.96747032 Entire academics team of learning scientists to go and audit and, and curate the, the skill plans, along with the AI because right, that is, you know, LLMs and, and generative ai and those who, who look at it, you know, it's not always faithful. 170 00:15:40,509.96747032 --> 00:15:50,409.96747032 it hallucinates and it's a really important for us to have those human checks, at least for now, until we can completely trust and hand over to the work, to agents and, and more robust LLMs. 171 00:15:50,694.96747032 --> 00:16:05,324.96747032 Do you see students using those skills that they're, like, how do the skills that the students do in those two hours in the morning translate into the life skills or the projects they're doing in the afternoon? Yeah, I think, Alpha's philosophy. 172 00:16:07,279.96747032 --> 00:16:10,369.96747032 is the belief that kids just need knowledge in their head. 173 00:16:10,759.96747032 --> 00:16:15,529.96747032 This isn't super specific content that's. 174 00:16:16,384.96747032 --> 00:16:19,474.96747032 You know, bespoke a above the level that what you get. 175 00:16:19,594.96747032 --> 00:16:21,184.96747032 Honestly, it's, it's common core. 176 00:16:21,184.96747032 --> 00:16:22,444.96747032 Our standards are common core. 177 00:16:22,444.96747032 --> 00:16:27,144.96747032 Now, how our students move through that content is very different than what you would see in the classroom. 178 00:16:27,194.96747032 --> 00:16:36,144.96747032 I think our belief though is, and I'll say a specific sub skill, right? Critical thinking the, the main track we have in our critical thinking. 179 00:16:36,774.96747032 --> 00:16:38,934.96747032 Program is both sides. 180 00:16:38,934.96747032 --> 00:16:39,744.96747032 We call it both sides. 181 00:16:39,774.96747032 --> 00:16:49,824.9674703 You know, can you argue both sides of an argument? And that starts, you know, as early as, you know, second and third grade, you're in what we call town hall, which is sort of our, our group wide meeting. 182 00:16:49,824.9674703 --> 00:16:54,474.9674703 You know, where a level comes together and the kids get to, you know, set the standards and there's a lot of debate that comes with it. 183 00:16:55,44.9674703 --> 00:17:09,124.9674703 Now, at that age, it's should you be able to bring stuffed animals in on Friday? If you do, how big should those stuffed animals be? And that's really great because in the afternoons, you know, the kids are being given that structure. 184 00:17:09,124.9674703 --> 00:17:12,274.9674703 They learn what an argument, what a counter argument for the rebuttal is. 185 00:17:12,274.9674703 --> 00:17:16,504.9674703 so they're, you know, arguing both against their peers and against themselves to figure out what they believe. 186 00:17:17,314.9674703 --> 00:17:22,534.9674703 The common core and the instructional material in the morning is just giving them knowledge in their heads. 187 00:17:22,534.9674703 --> 00:17:26,684.9674703 So once they go out and are, in middle school and high school, they have enough. 188 00:17:27,449.9674703 --> 00:17:33,509.9674703 Smart enough knowledge in their brains that they can make informed decisions about more serious last year debates. 189 00:17:33,969.0471048 --> 00:17:35,469.0471048 Yeah, that makes so much sense to me. 190 00:17:35,469.0471048 --> 00:17:53,399.0471048 I was thinking, about the entrepreneurship example that you were sharing earlier and just about how much math you need to know to make effective financial business decisions and how I can really imagine how, whether it's critical thinking or entrepreneurship, you're able to bring in these skills. 191 00:17:54,569.0471048 --> 00:17:59,929.0471048 That you're learning in the morning and then apply them to the, afternoon. 192 00:18:00,169.0471048 --> 00:18:02,689.0471048 Well, even with entrepreneurship, that's a funny one. 193 00:18:02,689.0471048 --> 00:18:07,589.0471048 You know, even if you go into, there's, there are plenty of jokes about the MBAs of the world. 194 00:18:07,679.0471048 --> 00:18:10,979.0471048 I won't get into that, but it's like, even if you're doing like EBITDA calculations. 195 00:18:11,699.0471048 --> 00:18:19,19.0471048 It's not calculus for like, I know there are corner cases, but it's, it's not, it's not, it's crazy high level map. 196 00:18:19,439.0471048 --> 00:18:27,874.0471048 A lot of what it is is tracking and mapping and I mentioned multi-step word problems before now word problems. 197 00:18:28,759.0471048 --> 00:18:31,69.0471048 Presented their whole host of difficulties. 198 00:18:31,69.0471048 --> 00:18:40,969.0471048 You know, I'm sure you've, you know, working with kids before, when a kid sees a word problem that's, you know, Susan went and bought six apples and Sarah went and bought six bananas. 199 00:18:41,29.0471048 --> 00:18:52,519.0471048 You know, their first thought is like, are Sarah and are Sarah and Susan friends? Like, why did, why did they get apples? Like there are so many other things for them to think about, because you know, a lot of times when kids see words, they think story. 200 00:18:52,619.0471048 --> 00:18:53,639.0471048 and I don't wanna reduce that. 201 00:18:53,639.0471048 --> 00:18:55,619.0471048 That's not every student, but I've seen it often. 202 00:18:56,234.0471048 --> 00:19:07,564.0471048 And the challenge with multi-step word problems and word problems in general is being able to map an object to a number, right? this person had X quantity, or this other person had Y quantity. 203 00:19:07,804.0471048 --> 00:19:17,449.0471048 What operation are you gonna bring in to? Put X and Y together in, in some way, and it keeps it, kids need to keep track of a lot. 204 00:19:17,669.0471048 --> 00:19:31,359.0471048 I do think that mechanism of being able to hold things in your head is really important once you get into the afternoons and you are doing these really complicated puzzles, you know, maybe in the critical thinking workshop or in your business. 205 00:19:31,959.0471048 --> 00:19:32,949.0471048 Yeah, absolutely. 206 00:19:32,999.0471048 --> 00:19:40,259.0471048 I think being able to map and build systems is a skill that feels like it will become increasingly important in the future of work. 207 00:19:40,259.0471048 --> 00:19:44,759.0471048 And so it's that critical thinking aspect and being able to tie things together. 208 00:19:44,769.0471048 --> 00:19:46,359.0471048 that's really cool to hear about. 209 00:19:46,839.0471048 --> 00:19:49,899.0471048 I wanted to ask you about the future of work. 210 00:19:49,899.0471048 --> 00:20:00,399.0471048 How does Alpha think about preparing students for the future of work? Like you're using AI in your school and students are also gonna grow up into a world that has been changed by ai. 211 00:20:00,399.0471048 --> 00:20:01,629.0471048 We know like. 212 00:20:02,54.0471048 --> 00:20:09,14.0471048 There are some really dire predictions about white collar workers losing jobs depending on who you talk to. 213 00:20:09,104.0471048 --> 00:20:09,464.0471048 yeah. 214 00:20:09,704.0471048 --> 00:20:20,963.7886191 But how are you thinking about preparing students for potentially a different world than they're in right now? I think the answer is really actively, and if you look at the ecosystem. 215 00:20:21,753.7886191 --> 00:20:27,33.7886191 No matter what your actual answer is to the mechanisms of how you're preparing kids. 216 00:20:27,573.7886191 --> 00:20:32,403.7886191 You know, every mission statement of the last 15 years is we are preparing kids for a changing world. 217 00:20:32,493.7886191 --> 00:20:32,583.7886191 Mm-hmm. 218 00:20:33,94.5170787 --> 00:20:35,914.5170787 I'm being reductive, but a lot of them say that. 219 00:20:35,974.5170787 --> 00:20:36,154.5170787 Yeah. 220 00:20:36,154.5170787 --> 00:20:37,954.5170787 Or if you push them, they will say that. 221 00:20:38,584.5170787 --> 00:20:44,454.5170787 And it's different for a lot of the legacy institutions who, you know, were established in the 17 hundreds. 222 00:20:45,114.5170787 --> 00:20:50,934.5170787 It's less about changing their pedagogy or really equipping their teachers to teach in these new ways and modes of thought. 223 00:20:51,414.5170787 --> 00:20:55,74.5170787 It's kind of about giving kids the signal that they've been through it. 224 00:20:55,74.5170787 --> 00:21:00,294.5170787 You know, if you go to a really elite private school, whether that's elementary, secondary, or even in college. 225 00:21:00,969.5170787 --> 00:21:10,719.5170787 A lot of what these legacy institutions are relying on is the fact that their students went to a legacy institution and they have that, you know, that name at the top of their resume. 226 00:21:11,169.5170787 --> 00:21:17,359.5170787 And we do believe that in 10 years, that alpha name on the top of the resume is going to mean a lot. 227 00:21:17,599.5170787 --> 00:21:23,809.5170787 But I think it's because we are trying to instill in our students these constituent skills that we know they're going to need. 228 00:21:24,79.5170787 --> 00:21:25,339.5170787 We know they're gonna need. 229 00:21:25,524.5170787 --> 00:21:26,634.5170787 To think critically. 230 00:21:26,694.5170787 --> 00:21:29,94.5170787 We know they're gonna need to speak publicly. 231 00:21:29,394.5170787 --> 00:21:37,554.5170787 They're going to have some sort of ownership mindset where they can take on tasks that weren't simply asked of them, but because they take it on for themselves. 232 00:21:37,974.5170787 --> 00:21:40,314.5170787 And a lot of our jobs as guides. 233 00:21:41,179.5170787 --> 00:22:00,464.5170787 Is to fuse what the student is passionate about with those different concepts and put them in positions where they're forced to, think critically and challenge themselves where they're forced to be put in front of an audience and share their thoughts and not just in that moment when they're practicing their actual aeration, but can they compose words together? Can they write whether that's with. 234 00:22:01,19.5170787 --> 00:22:11,364.5170787 An AI assistant or not, can they put together something that is comprehensive and cogent and cohesive enough that actually can move and persuade people? that's how we think about it. 235 00:22:11,424.5170787 --> 00:22:15,924.5170787 And I think that is mostly taken care of in the afternoons in those life skill workshops. 236 00:22:16,164.5170787 --> 00:22:22,374.5170787 But of course, like we've been saying, kids just need to know stuff and, and even were sometimes conflicted on that. 237 00:22:22,374.5170787 --> 00:22:28,944.5170787 They're, you know, schools of thought in Alpha where they're like, guys, stop making kids memorize the 50 state capitals. 238 00:22:28,974.5170787 --> 00:22:30,294.5170787 Like they don't need to do that anymore. 239 00:22:30,504.5170787 --> 00:22:40,104.5170787 The other argument is that right kids, you know, knowledge in their head is being reductive again, but I'll keep saying it, you know, some rope based learning just needs to give you a concept of the world. 240 00:22:40,104.5170787 --> 00:22:43,434.5170787 That sort of semantic memory of, of just what things are. 241 00:22:43,734.5170787 --> 00:22:51,864.5170787 And when you do have what is knowledge above, just the trivial, that can really help inform all those other skills once you actually have to use them. 242 00:22:52,164.0484103 --> 00:22:57,290.9420769 Yeah, I think that's really powerful to think about how when you have knowledge in your head, then you can do something with it. 243 00:22:57,340.9420769 --> 00:22:58,390.9420769 Kids just love trivia. 244 00:22:58,510.9420769 --> 00:23:02,440.9420769 Kids like you see, especially around like, I mean, everyone loves trivia. 245 00:23:02,500.9420769 --> 00:23:05,530.9420769 Like bar trivia is apparently the most popular thing in the world these days. 246 00:23:05,530.9420769 --> 00:23:06,640.9420769 I didn't even realize that. 247 00:23:06,970.9420769 --> 00:23:16,740.9420769 But kids just love knowing things and so it's a fun way for them to compete in a way that, you know, doesn't need to necessarily, compare themselves to other kids, but they can compare themselves to themselves. 248 00:23:16,740.9420769 --> 00:23:26,650.9420769 We were always on this site called Jet Punk, which is just this repository Of little pop quizzes on every possible area of knowledge, and it's just so fun for them. 249 00:23:26,650.9420769 --> 00:23:27,520.9420769 It's just so fun. 250 00:23:27,785.9420769 --> 00:23:36,185.9420769 it seems like there's a range of types of learning happening and some, you know, jet punk is just like fun random trivia stuff. 251 00:23:36,185.9420769 --> 00:23:41,625.9420769 And then you're also doing this more, adaptive learning of the skills that you just need to know. 252 00:23:41,625.9420769 --> 00:23:45,105.9420769 And then there's this application base that you're doing in the afternoon. 253 00:23:45,435.9420769 --> 00:23:48,765.9420769 Who knows how you can use one of these trivia facts to start a conversation. 254 00:23:49,105.9420769 --> 00:23:50,455.9420769 they're not totally useless. 255 00:23:51,55.9420769 --> 00:23:51,865.9420769 No, absolutely. 256 00:23:51,865.9420769 --> 00:23:53,635.9420769 And even if they are useless, they're still fun. 257 00:23:54,30.9420769 --> 00:23:54,780.9420769 And, and fun. 258 00:23:54,810.9420769 --> 00:23:56,160.9420769 You know, fun is good. 259 00:23:56,455.9420769 --> 00:24:04,445.9420769 How do y'all, okay, at Alpha, you're using AI as a big part of teaching students, but it's AI with a lot of guardrails. 260 00:24:04,445.9420769 --> 00:24:09,785.9420769 You're not throwing them in front of like a, you're not saying, okay, get on chat GBT and learn about history. 261 00:24:10,235.9420769 --> 00:24:13,205.9420769 there's something more, it sounds like it's a lot more guided than. 262 00:24:13,507.5517067 --> 00:24:14,347.5517067 it's more guided. 263 00:24:14,347.5517067 --> 00:24:30,374.2183734 There's more guardrails Well, first, is that true? And then if it is are students working with LLMs more organically? what does AI literacy look like at a school like Alpha? It can look like so many different things at so many different ages, at so many different parts of the day. 264 00:24:30,424.2183734 --> 00:24:43,4.2183734 With AI is always, you know, is this AI or, or, or is this what other people think of, of ai? And our model is not just this common core wrapper around chat GPT, no, it's two decades of adaptive apps. 265 00:24:43,4.2183734 --> 00:24:45,134.2183734 I mean, adaptive apps have been around forever. 266 00:24:45,134.2183734 --> 00:24:45,314.2183734 Love that. 267 00:24:45,314.2183734 --> 00:24:54,754.2183734 Now we have a much more robust model that is, taking in student data from all these API keys, keeping it secure in our own, proprietary mechanism. 268 00:24:54,754.2183734 --> 00:24:57,784.2183734 And then generating curated content plans to. 269 00:24:58,694.2183734 --> 00:25:00,104.2183734 meet them where they are. 270 00:25:00,164.2183734 --> 00:25:08,54.2183734 It's, it's not just launching them into chat GPT and say, explain to me the Battle of Saratoga from George Washington's product. 271 00:25:08,144.2183734 --> 00:25:08,834.2183734 I mean, that's not it. 272 00:25:08,864.2183734 --> 00:25:12,884.2183734 Now that can still be useful, but that takes a lot more active teaching. 273 00:25:12,934.2183734 --> 00:25:15,574.2183734 AI literacy does not come naturally. 274 00:25:15,574.2183734 --> 00:25:20,164.2183734 I personally don't even necessarily think that digitally native is a thing. 275 00:25:20,244.2183734 --> 00:25:29,424.2183734 there are some kids, some things that are more intuitive for kids online, but I, I can't tell you how many times I've had to remind my students what the shortcut is for copy and paste. 276 00:25:29,424.2183734 --> 00:25:32,664.2183734 there are some things that they're just not going to find by themselves. 277 00:25:32,994.2183734 --> 00:25:37,284.2183734 And, and when they are moving into those LMS away from you, ONE. 278 00:25:38,124.2183734 --> 00:25:41,484.2183734 Other machine learning algorithm into something they're interacting with. 279 00:25:41,534.2183734 --> 00:25:42,494.2183734 you know, this LLM. 280 00:25:43,327.0705759 --> 00:25:47,77.0705759 it is a lot of kind of giving them language of how to ask. 281 00:25:47,77.0705759 --> 00:25:53,137.0705759 you can't just talk to this like your friend, but also sometimes you can talk to it like a friend. 282 00:25:53,137.0705759 --> 00:25:55,117.0705759 It's not bad to just have a conversation. 283 00:25:55,447.0705759 --> 00:25:55,597.0705759 Now. 284 00:25:55,597.0705759 --> 00:26:07,567.0705759 There are other limitations of how quickly they can type and how quickly they can, read the text that's popping up on the screen, or even if we can get them to have the patients to wait until the entire response is generated to really start interrogating it. 285 00:26:08,662.0705759 --> 00:26:15,414.0836473 We do also from the guiding perspective, it's not purely organic, but we're making sure that. 286 00:26:15,530.0951999 --> 00:26:20,990.0951999 The LLMs and, you know, different portals that they're using are specific to the task. 287 00:26:21,110.0951999 --> 00:26:38,50.0951999 Becoming an expert is something we see as a life skill, research, are they just going on chat GPT for that or do we want them to go into perplexity? Do we want them to be able to find linked academic articles and research it for themselves while they also have this sort of compiled, excerpt. 288 00:26:38,680.0951999 --> 00:26:40,120.0951999 You know, in front of them from the LLM. 289 00:26:40,450.0951999 --> 00:26:49,625.0951999 So a lot of what we find with when kids are interacting with the LLMs is just kind of prompting them, us prompting them of how deep they should go and how deep they can go. 290 00:26:49,895.0951999 --> 00:26:57,65.0951999 If it's just, trying to build a one pager for your business, then chat GPT is fine, but you should know how to create it even without chat. 291 00:26:57,65.0951999 --> 00:27:13,30.0951999 GPT, if you wanna do research for a presentation, we're probably gonna direct you the perplexity, Can you actually go into one of those linked academic articles and try to read past the abstract and really understand it for yourself? You see the form that perplexity is generating, you see where the summary can be. 292 00:27:13,60.0951999 --> 00:27:20,60.0951999 Can you do that for yourself? And I think that's what's really interesting about LLMs generally, and you see this even in adults too. 293 00:27:20,331.2778759 --> 00:27:24,411.2778759 You know, we learn so much from the forms of writing. 294 00:27:25,11.2778759 --> 00:27:26,181.2778759 LLMs do. 295 00:27:26,181.2778759 --> 00:27:40,571.2778759 I was a creative writing major, so I have a very formative relationship with the M Dash, but I think it's becoming, more common now both from AI writing, but then also people who have read AI writing, see the utility in the M dash and start using them for themselves. 296 00:27:40,571.2778759 --> 00:27:44,171.2778759 There are some phrases that Chet, EBT especially loves to use Chat. 297 00:27:44,171.2778759 --> 00:27:47,621.2778759 GPT loves saying it's not about blank, it's about. 298 00:27:48,476.2778759 --> 00:27:49,257.2778759 Or like, it's not about that. 299 00:27:49,262.2778759 --> 00:27:50,457.2778759 It really loves, it's about why loves to contrast. 300 00:27:51,321.2778759 --> 00:27:52,11.2778759 It loves that. 301 00:27:52,11.2778759 --> 00:27:54,651.2778759 And it's interesting how LMS are, are really doing that. 302 00:27:54,651.2778759 --> 00:27:58,641.2778759 I say that to go a step farther, you know, we're trying to be very mindful. 303 00:27:59,3.444443 --> 00:28:03,893.444443 Students shouldn't just absorb the forms that LLMs are, are producing. 304 00:28:03,893.444443 --> 00:28:10,593.444443 They should be able to do it themselves and they should be able to do it in a way where, you know, it could contrast against, you know, a general LLM output. 305 00:28:10,832.1006774 --> 00:28:17,172.1006774 are your students bought into using LLMs in this way? A big concern in education generally is that. 306 00:28:18,372.1006774 --> 00:28:21,672.1006774 Critical thinking is going to be outsourced to LLMs. 307 00:28:22,2.1006774 --> 00:28:28,932.1006774 And I know critical thinking is a huge part of what you're teaching at Alpha, directly and purposefully. 308 00:28:29,262.1006774 --> 00:28:44,840.4071395 are students invested in using LLMs with a critical lens, or are you having hard conversations about the importance of being thoughtful about how you interact with these tools? For some of our learners, it doesn't take any buy-in. 309 00:28:45,380.4071395 --> 00:28:48,590.4071395 They're just entrance with the magic that is LLMs. 310 00:28:48,650.4071395 --> 00:28:48,740.4071395 Mm-hmm. 311 00:28:49,100.4071395 --> 00:28:50,870.4071395 You know, it's, and it's, it's really amazing. 312 00:28:50,870.4071395 --> 00:28:53,750.4071395 But it also, when we talk about the future of work. 313 00:28:54,95.4071395 --> 00:29:03,665.4071395 As threatening as it can be for adults, I think it can be somewhat threatening for, for kids they wanna, at least some of our students wanna compete with the LMS and wanna be better. 314 00:29:03,665.4071395 --> 00:29:11,15.4071395 And I think that's actually a fairly healthy view of it and it forces 'em to take a more critical view of what the outputs are. 315 00:29:11,315.4071395 --> 00:29:17,505.4071395 I remember one time when I was working with our middle schoolers and this was, in the early days of, I think it was GT four. 316 00:29:18,330.4071395 --> 00:29:20,100.4071395 I wrote this little story. 317 00:29:20,100.4071395 --> 00:29:21,960.4071395 It was for a creative writing workshop. 318 00:29:22,20.4071395 --> 00:29:24,240.4071395 A storytelling workshop, and. 319 00:29:24,990.4071395 --> 00:29:27,750.4071395 On the first glance, the kids were like, this is perfect. 320 00:29:27,990.4071395 --> 00:29:29,40.4071395 Like this is amazing. 321 00:29:29,670.4071395 --> 00:29:34,165.4071395 And then we went past it and actually did the line edit and looked through it with a really critical eye. 322 00:29:34,165.4071395 --> 00:29:37,645.4071395 and I don't think there was a single sentence that wasn't marked up by the end of it. 323 00:29:38,5.4071395 --> 00:29:41,285.4071395 So I think what you're contending with is how passive. 324 00:29:41,365.4071395 --> 00:29:50,155.4071395 Students are going to be when they're just sort of consuming LLM content and we want it to be really active and we want them to critique it even more than they would appear. 325 00:29:50,245.4071395 --> 00:29:53,125.4071395 And I think in that critique, there's a lot of learning too. 326 00:29:53,175.4071395 --> 00:30:01,245.4071395 you are learning what the LLM does wrong, but you're also sort of learning your own interests and preferences that you can then go apply into your own work. 327 00:30:01,452.0738062 --> 00:30:02,772.0738062 thank you for sharing that example. 328 00:30:02,772.0738062 --> 00:30:04,392.0738062 I think it's helpful for. 329 00:30:04,927.0738062 --> 00:30:14,443.7404729 Folks listening to have examples of how students can use this to think critically because it is, a big shift for educators throughout our country and throughout our world. 330 00:30:14,443.7404729 --> 00:30:16,323.7404729 So it's good to have those kind of examples. 331 00:30:16,353.7404729 --> 00:30:20,133.7404729 and I think teachers do feel somewhat threatened by it. 332 00:30:20,133.7404729 --> 00:30:30,102.0738062 And I think that's really unfortunate because it can be this really great supplemental tool where you can offload a lot of the, difficult and tedious work. 333 00:30:30,107.0738062 --> 00:30:33,652.0738062 and it can be something that you can use without, threatening your job. 334 00:30:33,772.0738062 --> 00:30:37,42.0738062 but it is like that's what people think about and it's really unfortunate. 335 00:30:37,42.0738062 --> 00:30:47,252.0738062 It's even unfortunate, I think how people sort of first interact with AI you either use it to automate the really boring tasks, you use it to send emails or do anything. 336 00:30:47,252.0738062 --> 00:30:48,692.0738062 And you're like, wow, this is amazing. 337 00:30:49,22.0738062 --> 00:30:52,422.0738062 And then maybe you do feel like a little threatened, but you have to remember like, this is the emails. 338 00:30:52,482.0738062 --> 00:30:58,682.0738062 It's, it's not going that deep or people do it to try to assist them with like the really hard stuff. 339 00:30:58,898.7404729 --> 00:31:12,428.7404729 And sometimes, especially if you are at the frontier of work, you are going to find the frontier of LLMs pretty quickly and you're gonna be disappointed in the outputs and then you'll swing back in the other direction and sort of be dejected or disappointed in what it is. 340 00:31:12,428.7404729 --> 00:31:19,988.7404729 It's like this thing is a joke, and I think it does take a lot of time just with the AI to find what it's good at and what it's bad at. 341 00:31:20,38.7404729 --> 00:31:24,998.7404729 I know we talked about even just asynchronously about how people should start. 342 00:31:25,388.7404729 --> 00:31:28,748.7404729 Using it and I think it is for, in both of those places. 343 00:31:28,748.7404729 --> 00:31:32,948.7404729 And then just sticking with it to a, to a place where you can find how useful it is for you. 344 00:31:32,948.7404729 --> 00:31:37,688.7404729 Honestly, LLMs right now and probably will be for a long time, just this black box. 345 00:31:37,688.7404729 --> 00:31:39,38.7404729 There's no user manual. 346 00:31:39,88.7404729 --> 00:31:43,618.7404729 you can take, as many people on LinkedIn wanna sell you their prompting courses. 347 00:31:43,618.7404729 --> 00:31:45,433.7404729 The best way to learn, I truly believe is just. 348 00:31:45,758.7404729 --> 00:31:50,48.7404729 Prompt and talk to it, and talk to it in different tones and learn how it talks back to you. 349 00:31:50,48.7404729 --> 00:31:51,548.7404729 Try to not give it the persona. 350 00:31:51,738.7404729 --> 00:31:55,485.4071395 you don't need to say, approach this like a PhD physicist. 351 00:31:55,485.4071395 --> 00:32:00,255.4071395 You can usually just talk to it, but try that once or twice and see if there's an actual material difference in the outputs. 352 00:32:00,585.4071395 --> 00:32:12,765.4071395 I think experimentation is really critical with ai, both if you're working with it as an adult or if you're trying to introduce it to kids I think the experience of just doing it yourself is always a very rich learning experience. 353 00:32:12,765.4071395 --> 00:32:16,305.4071395 And so with AI or anything else, it's like, just try. 354 00:32:16,305.4071395 --> 00:32:19,15.4071395 I think it's easier to learn than people think. 355 00:32:19,65.4071395 --> 00:32:23,235.4071395 it's not as scary in terms of learning a new computer system. 356 00:32:23,235.4071395 --> 00:32:27,285.4071395 I think ai, the LLMs are fairly frictionless, at least at first. 357 00:32:27,285.4071395 --> 00:32:28,835.4071395 And so just try. 358 00:32:29,105.4071395 --> 00:32:37,925.4071395 I wanted to ask you, How long have you been at Alpha schools and what changes have you seen? Because the technology has changed a lot in the last two and a half years. 359 00:32:38,375.4071395 --> 00:32:38,705.4071395 Yeah. 360 00:32:39,395.4071395 --> 00:32:44,615.4071395 The technology has changed a lot, but we are not, you know, creating our own LLMs. 361 00:32:44,615.4071395 --> 00:32:44,765.4071395 Yes. 362 00:32:44,855.4071395 --> 00:32:46,990.4071395 We have the AI tutor, which is its own thing. 363 00:32:47,20.4071395 --> 00:32:50,155.4071395 And we have a dev team and we have both an academics team working on that. 364 00:32:51,565.4071395 --> 00:32:55,915.4071395 What I have seen, what has been most encouraging for me is most of the changes in the curriculum. 365 00:32:55,915.4071395 --> 00:33:00,685.4071395 And to answer your question, I just completed, I guess I came at the end of, or yeah, in 2022. 366 00:33:00,685.4071395 --> 00:33:01,345.4071395 2023. 367 00:33:01,345.4071395 --> 00:33:03,565.4071395 So this, I just complete my third, my third year. 368 00:33:04,915.4071395 --> 00:33:07,195.4071395 And a lot of the changes I've seen have been. 369 00:33:07,585.4071395 --> 00:33:26,395.4071395 Guide driven the, the guides are in the field working with the students and seeing what works and doesn't have it, and some of that feedback gets passed on to our academic team so they can improve the AI tutor, but it's mostly looking critically at theirselves and saying, how can we improve the afternoons? Before I got there, there used to be a category of afternoon workshop called just for fun. 370 00:33:26,833.1418508 --> 00:33:35,263.1418508 We found in these, in these past few years, if we want kids to achieve at the level we expect of 'em, we need to have really high standards and we need to hold really high support. 371 00:33:35,693.0531934 --> 00:33:42,23.0531934 and that is meant increasing the rigor, frankly, in those afternoon workshops and giving kids really challenging things. 372 00:33:42,23.0531934 --> 00:33:45,893.0531934 I had third and fourth graders go through a Wharton business school simulation. 373 00:33:45,893.0531934 --> 00:33:53,693.0531934 Now they of course, didn't have all the content knowledge, but they had to learn all these, structures of organizational thinking and how to strategize in a small group. 374 00:33:54,23.0531934 --> 00:34:01,248.0531934 We have kids, Doing and there are a few examples of simulations from, Harvard and ut that our students have completed. 375 00:34:01,428.0531934 --> 00:34:11,343.0531934 But it's also going out into the real world and running your own food truck and seeing this thing that isn't just impressive because you're 10, but it would be impressive and adult did it too. 376 00:34:11,703.0531934 --> 00:34:16,53.0531934 And really just putting kids in position where they're challenged but can succeed. 377 00:34:16,495.8470095 --> 00:34:21,145.8470095 I feel like students are capable of doing so much more than we expect of them. 378 00:34:21,145.8470095 --> 00:34:32,635.8470095 And so when you're able to give opportunities to students like that, I'm sure it's incredible to see a 10-year-old running a food truck. 379 00:34:32,635.8470095 --> 00:34:34,645.8470095 Probably the first time you see it, it's like, whoa. 380 00:34:34,695.8470095 --> 00:34:36,495.8470095 But then over time. 381 00:34:36,840.8470095 --> 00:34:42,360.8470095 does it become almost normal? Sometimes I have to remind myself of how impressive it is because it's become an expectation. 382 00:34:42,360.8470095 --> 00:34:48,360.8470095 You know? It's, it's the expectation that, yeah, I can get nine year olds to code self-driving cars in Python. 383 00:34:48,420.8470095 --> 00:34:48,630.8470095 Right. 384 00:34:48,630.8470095 --> 00:34:51,670.8470095 That was something I did my first session, this was two years ago. 385 00:34:52,0.8470095 --> 00:34:54,370.8470095 We've gotten kids to build their own. 386 00:34:54,740.8470095 --> 00:35:00,140.8470095 Novel use cases for robots that, you know, kids now in the US and India are using in their curriculum. 387 00:35:00,140.8470095 --> 00:35:02,515.8470095 I mean, there's so much we have done. 388 00:35:03,355.8470095 --> 00:35:06,985.8470095 It feels like we just keep raising the bar and we're gonna continue to do that. 389 00:35:06,985.8470095 --> 00:35:13,355.8470095 But it is worthwhile, especially for the kids to step back and just be grateful for how much they've achieved. 390 00:35:13,355.8470095 --> 00:35:22,855.8470095 You know, if kids are growing and we wanna raise the bar as they grow, but I think it's really important and why the guides are there to just sometimes be like, wow, I'm super proud of you. 391 00:35:23,245.8470095 --> 00:35:24,85.8470095 That's amazing. 392 00:35:24,185.8470095 --> 00:35:30,860.8470095 what do you think? Schools outside of, the schools who are not alpha, who don't have the structures that you have. 393 00:35:31,400.8470095 --> 00:35:56,540.8470095 Even reflecting on your own experience as a student in elementary, middle, high school, what do you think schools should be? is there a piece that feels like a good starting place for your average public school? I don't wanna be the arbiter, you know, what a good education or a good educator is like, because we are so fortunate to have the resources we do when we are a private school, and there's a lot of Wonder that comes with that of what we can really give to our kids. 394 00:35:56,840.8470095 --> 00:35:59,450.8470095 I don't know the practical lessons, but I think. 395 00:36:00,140.8470095 --> 00:36:07,720.8470095 Adopting AI sooner and AI tutors earlier in the process to give kids those afternoons and time back is really important. 396 00:36:07,720.8470095 --> 00:36:24,945.8470095 That doesn't mean send them home at noon, right? But try to then curate that afternoon curriculum to be something that dives closer to what the students are really into and be okay to as a teacher, accept moving away from what you are truly passionate about and onto what your students are really interested in. 397 00:36:25,680.8470095 --> 00:36:27,390.8470095 That's easier said than done. 398 00:36:27,390.8470095 --> 00:36:37,545.8470095 And I think public education is a massive cruise ship and it's really hard to turn it around, but I hope it just starts to steer in a slightly different direction. 399 00:36:38,25.8470095 --> 00:36:41,895.8470095 What I really hope is, you know, we have alpha, we have traditional ed. 400 00:36:42,195.8470095 --> 00:36:44,55.8470095 I hope we find a secret third thing. 401 00:36:44,115.8470095 --> 00:36:48,540.8470095 You know, I hope from all this experimentation we can find something that serves. 402 00:36:48,970.8470095 --> 00:36:50,950.8470095 All students in, in all scenarios. 403 00:36:50,950.8470095 --> 00:36:54,730.8470095 And I, I think that's should even be the guiding principle of, of EdTech. 404 00:36:54,730.8470095 --> 00:36:59,260.8470095 If you look at what has been created, and gosh, there's been a lot that's been created in the last 20 years. 405 00:37:00,190.8470095 --> 00:37:07,540.8470095 All of it seemingly, has been produced to either supplement the role of the teacher or to replace the role of the teacher. 406 00:37:07,780.8470095 --> 00:37:10,120.8470095 And it can do both of those things. 407 00:37:10,180.8470095 --> 00:37:14,20.8470095 The access that EdTech has brought is wonderful, but it doesn't solve. 408 00:37:14,655.8470095 --> 00:37:22,365.8470095 The fundamental challenge of making kids want to learn and aligning their education with their passion. 409 00:37:22,365.8470095 --> 00:37:24,105.8470095 It doesn't always have to be their passion. 410 00:37:24,105.8470095 --> 00:37:29,55.8470095 They don't need to be excited 100% of the time, but they should at least feel. 411 00:37:29,245.8470095 --> 00:37:31,945.8470095 They have some agency and ownership in their own education. 412 00:37:32,155.8470095 --> 00:37:45,206.8470095 And I think the question that schools are really bad at answering, and one that I take very seriously is the why are we doing this? And the answer for us is never just because, and I understand in a lot of educational environments, the answer sometimes has to be. 413 00:37:45,865.8470095 --> 00:37:52,755.8470095 Just because, and maybe it's just because the Department of Ed is making us doing this, or just because it's, the top down decree from administration. 414 00:37:52,755.8470095 --> 00:38:00,190.8470095 There's a lot of just because in there, and I hope we can create this special third model where, just because is never an answer. 415 00:38:00,400.8470095 --> 00:38:07,780.8470095 Yeah why are we doing this? What's the purpose? And being intentional about the kind of learning that's happening Feels like some promise for the future. 416 00:38:08,80.8470095 --> 00:38:10,30.8470095 And I think we can be really excited. 417 00:38:10,30.8470095 --> 00:38:12,730.8470095 But the progress we made, I mean, crash course is amazing. 418 00:38:12,730.8470095 --> 00:38:21,910.8470095 Like I love John Green as a kid, as it was, but like there are ways to get kids excited just from novelty and there's also ways to sustain that excitement. 419 00:38:21,960.8470095 --> 00:38:23,460.8470095 You know, when I was in school. 420 00:38:23,740.8470095 --> 00:38:33,220.8470095 the criteria for being my favorite teacher was like, you had a little bit of energy and you rolled in the TV once every month and maybe played, you know, it was a fairly low bar. 421 00:38:33,220.8470095 --> 00:38:38,320.8470095 and I hope we can go past that, into a place where kids are, really excited every day in every class. 422 00:38:38,320.8470095 --> 00:38:40,120.8470095 Now it's a high bar. 423 00:38:40,150.8470095 --> 00:38:45,130.8470095 it's one I hope we can clear and it's going to take this divergent breath of thinking to even get us close. 424 00:38:45,427.5136762 --> 00:38:47,77.5136762 It's when you were talking about. 425 00:38:47,477.5136762 --> 00:39:19,597.5136762 that motivation piece, I think what has always made a really good teacher is the teacher that makes you feel like you can be bigger than you are or can shift your self perception or has a vision for a classroom that goes beyond learning the quadratic equation There has to be something deeper that goes alongside of the learning that happens one thing that I think Alpha is doing well is thinking about how do you create spaces where the adults in the room are that motivator, that, relationship builder and you're able to walk side by side. 426 00:39:20,677.5136762 --> 00:39:21,277.5136762 Absolutely. 427 00:39:21,577.5136762 --> 00:39:24,847.5136762 One of my last, the question I really like to end on is. 428 00:39:25,477.5136762 --> 00:39:41,602.5071488 Brings us back to ai and it is, what is the idea or question that you have about this technology right now that is, is sitting with you, and it might be the thing that makes you hopeful, the thing that makes you worried, the thing you're curious about, but what's, what's the idea or question? that's a great question. 429 00:39:41,652.5071488 --> 00:39:46,182.5071488 I think for me it extends well beyond AI and really into our AI usage. 430 00:39:46,212.5071488 --> 00:39:50,7.5071488 what if we get this wrong? and that can be both generally. 431 00:39:50,7.5071488 --> 00:40:09,282.5071488 And specifically if I'm working with a kid and I'm trying to implement some new executive function intervention, right? who do I want that coming from? Do I want that coming from ai or do I want it coming from me? And usually the second question is, who can correct it quicker if we do get it wrong? in those social emotional spaces? I trust myself more. 432 00:40:10,137.5071488 --> 00:40:16,287.5071488 When it's academics and it's about making sure kids are placed in the right content area, I'm happy to offload that to ai. 433 00:40:16,807.5071488 --> 00:40:21,487.5071488 I just hope we find the places where it's okay to get it wrong because we are gonna get it wrong. 434 00:40:21,697.5071488 --> 00:40:27,247.5071488 and I hope the places where we do get it wrong and AI can't step in and correct, we keep to the humans. 435 00:40:27,796.5233405 --> 00:40:28,366.5233405 I love that. 436 00:40:28,816.5233405 --> 00:40:35,291.5233405 Well, thank you so much for sharing your perspective and sharing a different way of doing education. 437 00:40:35,291.5233405 --> 00:40:39,951.5233405 I think people have tried a lot of different things for a long time and it's cool to hear about Alpha. 438 00:40:40,821.5233405 --> 00:40:55,116.2097363 Is there Any last thoughts that you just wanna share or things that are kind of percolating for you is there anything else that you're just like, oh, I would've really liked to say that, but I didn't get a chance to? I just hope people really keep exploring with AI and challenge themselves when they do feel threatened. 439 00:40:55,166.2097363 --> 00:40:58,349.6284642 I mean, maybe this is the underdone, but I do think, right, I see this. 440 00:40:58,569.6284642 --> 00:41:03,29.6284642 My parents, colleagues and my friends who work in, public schools, they do feel threatened by it. 441 00:41:03,29.6284642 --> 00:41:08,309.6284642 And I think that's such an unfortunate emotion to have with something that can be so transformative. 442 00:41:08,399.6284642 --> 00:41:23,344.6284642 So, I hope people keep exploring ai, keep finding where it works, keep finding where it doesn't work, and gain some confidence in this tool that may not change the entire world, but will certainly change some of the spaces that we occupy within it. 443 00:41:26,433.9691316 --> 00:41:30,453.9691316 That was such a fascinating look inside the Alpha School model with Ben Gordon Sniffen. 444 00:41:30,633.9691316 --> 00:41:33,813.9691316 A huge thank you to him for sharing his on the ground experiences. 445 00:41:34,23.9691316 --> 00:41:43,143.9691316 His description of using a two hour AI powered academic block in the morning to create more time for human connection and passion driven life skills workshops in the afternoon. 446 00:41:43,758.9691316 --> 00:41:44,958.9691316 Is transformative. 447 00:41:45,198.9691316 --> 00:41:54,348.9691316 I was especially struck by his insight that the model doesn't replace adults, but empowers them to be better coaches and mentors From one innovative educational model to another. 448 00:41:54,468.9691316 --> 00:42:00,168.9691316 Join me next time on kin wise conversations where I'll be speaking with John Sharon of the Carolina French School. 449 00:42:00,348.9691316 --> 00:42:08,868.9691316 We'll explore how a school with deep values-based mission rooted in community and reflection is thinking about the role of AI in human-centered education. 450 00:42:09,253.9691316 --> 00:42:12,793.9691316 To dive deeper in today's topics with Ben, I've put everything for you in one place. 451 00:42:12,973.9691316 --> 00:42:17,343.9691316 Just head over to the resource page for this episode at kin wise.org/podcast. 452 00:42:17,583.9691316 --> 00:42:25,593.9691316 There you'll find the full transcript more about Ben and the Alpha School model, and a list of resources inspired by our conversation for the school and district leaders listening. 453 00:42:25,623.9691316 --> 00:42:28,413.9691316 If Ben's insights have you thinking about how to build a real. 454 00:42:28,593.9691316 --> 00:42:30,333.9691316 AI strategy for your teachers. 455 00:42:30,903.9691316 --> 00:42:34,773.9691316 I invite you to learn more about the Kin Wise Educator PD pilot program. 456 00:42:34,923.9691316 --> 00:42:44,133.9691316 We partner with districts to select a topic that's meaningful for your teachers, and together we build a community of practice chat that continues to support them long after our work together is done. 457 00:42:44,325.4728392 --> 00:42:46,665.4728392 You can learn more about our [e-mail] 458 00:42:46,665.4728392 --> 00:42:47,355.4728392 slash pilot. 459 00:42:49,671.9746377 --> 00:42:54,531.9746377 finally, if you found value in this podcast, the best way to support the show is to subscribe. 460 00:42:54,621.9746377 --> 00:42:56,722.9746377 Leave a quick review or share this episode with a friend. 461 00:42:57,166.9746377 --> 00:42:58,216.9746377 It makes a huge difference. 462 00:42:58,426.9746377 --> 00:43:01,816.9746377 Until next time, stay curious, stay grounded, and stay kin wise.