September 10, 2025 • 34 mins
Thinking about adoption but not sure where to start? Suzy Shaw and co-host Cheryl Bohn sit down with Ryan Hanlon, PhD—President & CEO of the National Council for Adoption (NCFA)—to cover what every mom should ask before adopting. We get real about eligibility, timelines, costs, open vs. closed adoption, medical info, choosing an agency, and how to know if your family is truly ready. Clear, practical, zero fluff.
Guest: Ryan Hanlon, PhD (NCFA) — adoptioncouncil.org
In this episode you’ll learn:
- Eligibility criteria by adoption type and state
- Foster care vs. private domestic vs. international: timelines & costs
- What “open” adoption actually looks like today
- Medical/background info you can expect—and how to evaluate it
- Questions to decide if you’re ready (as a couple and as a family)
- How to find an ethical, well-matched agency
If this helped, share it with a mom who’s considering adoption—and follow the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide for next week’s part two on life after the adoption.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Before You Adopt (00:00):
Questions Every Mom Should Ask Welcome to the Mother is a Boy Survival Guide
(00:06):
podcast. I'm Shaw Shaw, author and boy mom of two, here with my co-host Cheryl Bohn. Today,
we're talking about a big topic that so many families think about, but often don't
know where to begin, which is adoption.That's right, Suzy. Whether you're just
starting to explore the idea or you've been considering adoption for a while,
(00:27):
it's very overwhelming. There are emotional, practical, and legal questions that every mom
should ask before taking that leap.To help us sort through all of this,
we're joined by Ryan Hanlon, PhD, president and CEO of the National Council for Adoption.
Ryan has spent his career supporting adoptive families and shaping policy
to make the process better for children and parents alike. He also brings personal
(00:51):
insight from working with countless families at different stages of the adoption journey.
We're so grateful to have Ryan with us to share his perspective. And today's conversation will
focus on before you adopt, but Ryan will be back next week with another podcast
about after the adoption has come through.If you've ever wondered how adoption might
(01:15):
fit into your family story, this episode is for you. Welcome, Ryan.
Thank you, Suzy. I am grateful for this opportunity and love talking about that
pre-adoption stage. And I'll look forward to when we can also talk about that post-adoption stage.
So Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about the National Council for Adoption
(01:38):
and its role in supporting adoptive families?Yeah, absolutely. So the National Council for
Adoption, we call ourselves NCFA. We work with adoption professionals, adoptive families,
and adoption advocates across the country. We do research, we do education, we do advocacy,
promoting policies that are adoption related. And we often are convening people to connect
(02:04):
with one another, learn from one another.For example, we put on a conference every year
in different cities, changes year to year, but we're hosting a conference for essentially
adoption professionals to be learning from one another, to be learning how to improve their
practices and to support one another. We also do that through the online offerings that we provide.
(02:27):
So we try and be involved with all types of adoption as well. So adoption from foster care is
the most common form of adoption in our country. International adoption and private domestic,
what people think of as infant adoption. We focus on all three of those main types of adoption.
So Ryan, what criteria are considered when determining if an individual or
(02:50):
a couple is eligible to adopt?Yeah, that's a great question
and there's a lot to unpack there. So when we're talking about a parent's eligibility,
we would probably talk about it a few different ways. We might talk about it by type of adoption,
and we could then ask the question, who's making that eligibility determination? Or
(03:10):
we could talk about it by, who's making the decision to place a child for adoption and who
are they placing that child for adoption with?So if we were to do an international adoption,
we have to meet our state requirements in terms of eligibility, the US state,
we have to meet the federal requirements for an international adoption, and we have to meet
(03:32):
that foreign country's eligibility requirements. And that's going to change from one country to
another. So there's no simple way to talk about eligibility criteria for international adoption.
But in general, we'd be looking at things like the parents' ages, their income, their health status,
how many other children are in their home. And in some countries, it's going to be tied to the
(03:56):
child request information, meaning the age of the parents might not be as important as
the age difference between the child joining the family and the parents. And so that might
be one of the factors that would be considered.But for different types of adoption, eligibility
criteria are going to look very different. For an international adoption, I mentioned there's
(04:20):
the state, federal, and foreign country, but for a domestic adoption, we're usually just looking at
the state's requirements. Sometimes there might be two states involved because the child being placed
for adoption is in a different state. And then at that point, we're meeting state guidelines. And if
the adoption agency has additional guidelines that they are going to be putting in place.
(04:44):
That's going to differ, of course, from one state to the next. But the general thing they're doing,
they're doing background checks. They're essentially looking to say, is this going to
be a safe home for a child? And then if a social worker is doing that home study with the parents,
and we can talk about what a home study is for those who don't know, they're going to be making
a decision to say, what might that best fit be? Is a family that might be open to adopting siblings?
(05:10):
Perhaps it's a better fit to just adopt one child, approving a family or a couple or an individual to
adopt within a certain age range, or a child who has a medical special need of some sort. So lots
of different factors that can come in just in thinking through eligibility. But in general,
we're looking at state requirements and the kind of best fit or safety for a child.
(05:35):
So, Ryan, I could say in my nuclear family or my family that there have been members
that have adopted kids, and they were different types of adoption and friends
as well. Can you explain the difference in the timelines, in the process requirements,
costs of the various types of adoptions?Let's start with adoption from foster care
(06:00):
because that's the most common type of adoption. It's also the least expensive. It's often free or
very low cost because the public system, the state or the county government, is often the one who's
paying for those services. There are exceptions. There's times where lawyers get involved and
through the court process. But in general, most adoptions are going to be free or low cost.
(06:23):
They often can take a long time. The primary person who is adopting a child is already
fostering that child. That's the most common way that that would happen in our country. And so it
could be that a child's in a home where they're receiving foster care for a couple years. If
(06:45):
that child's unable to reunify with birth family, that child's parents have their parental rights
terminated and the county or the child welfare system is moving towards adoption, it could then
take a year or two longer just to finalize that adoption. But that whole time, if we've just
talked about four years, the child's been living in that same home with those parents during that
(07:08):
process. So talking about timing can be really nuanced when we're talking about foster care.
For private domestic adoption, that infant adoption that we've talked about, that is going to
often be a process of getting paperwork in order, completing a home study, doing all that work in
(07:28):
advance and then waiting on a match. And that wait is the timeframe we'd probably be discussing and
most people would have a lot of questions. And there really is a very wide range there.
I think most couples that are pursuing private domestic adoption should expect 18 months,
two years long wait. But if I met a couple and they said they only waited 12 months,
(07:52):
that wouldn't shock me. If I met a couple and said we're on year three, that also wouldn't
shock me. It's just a very wide range there.One of the determining factors in that type of
an adoption is the match is often determined by the parent or parents who are placing their child
for adoption. So instead of the adoption agency or a foreign country or a child welfare organization
(08:15):
making that match, it's often that expectant mother who's deciding who the adoptive parents are
going to be. And because of that, there's not an easy way to figure out a timeframe. And you could
have two very similar families that have very different experiences in terms of their weight.
That type of an adoption, there are going to be wide ranges in cost as well. But I think a couple
(08:38):
should expect it could cost around $50,000 or so with a number of factors that can make
it less expensive, some that might make it more expensive, but $50,000 is probably a safe range.
And then for international adoption, going to be country specific. So there's not an easy way
to answer that. But again, we're looking at a couple of years both in building the paperwork,
(08:59):
waiting for that match to happen, traveling and completing the adoption. Most families,
it's going to take a couple of years from beginning to end for that to be complete.
And for that type of an adoption, cost is also going to be country specific, but I think families
should look at $40,000 or so as maybe around the average of what other families are paying.
(09:25):
So how do parents determine what the right path for them is? Or how do they even know where
to start to know if they want to foster or adopt an infant or go international?
You know, there's so many things to be thinking about and the way to begin is to just be getting
information. So if this podcast is helpful, I would say keep thinking through ways to get
(09:52):
additional resources, there's a lot online. My organization (adoptioncouncil.org) puts a ton
of our resources online for free because we want people to be able to make well-informed decisions.
And lots of other organizations are doing the same thing. So being really well-informed
is going to make the best decision there.You want to think through the best fit for both
(10:13):
the child and the family. I always tell people if there's other children in the home, that needs to
be an absolute priority in the decision-making as well. We're not just thinking about the parents
and the child that's joining, we're thinking about the whole household. And so we want to
think about what's the impact there, what's the experience for everyone that's involved.
(10:34):
Often the parents' child request information. So what they're hoping for in terms of that adoption
is going to help in making a decision. If you're interested in adopting an infant,
international adoption and adoption from foster care are not a good fit because the
children that are placed for adoption are going to be older and could sometimes be much older,
(10:58):
but they're certainly going to be not infants. That's a very safe way to proceed.
For my family, we have four children. The fourth joined our family through adoption
and age wasn't an important factor for us. Aside from wanting to make sure the child who joined
(11:21):
our family was younger than the youngest child in our household. So that was an important factor for
me and for my wife. But having a newborn wasn't one of the driving factors there.
We chose an international adoption for a number of reasons. And we
were very comfortable with that and had a great experience with the adoption. And of course, our
(11:46):
son is one of the four joys of our life. So we're grateful for him and for all four of our kids. And
for us, we looked at other factors like what the adoption process would be like. And that
was part of what motivated the decision we made to choose an international adoption.
(12:06):
I have a question for you based on some of the things we've talked about. How often does
it happen where a couple or an individual comes with an idea of what they do want for adoption?
And then they don't meet the criteria or maybe they're redirected after they are
going through more of the interview process or after they're evaluated more. Does that happen?
(12:31):
You know, that often would be the case, especially if someone hadn't done a lot of that additional
work on the front end to inform themselves about what the different options or possibilities are.
I mean, to maybe give a more hyperbolic example, if someone came and said, well, I want a newborn
and I want it to be no cost and I want it to be super quick and easy, it's just there isn't an
(12:57):
adoption process like that. And so that's where getting good information in advance to say,
here's what the different options are, here's what these different avenues are going to look like.
And making a decision, a well-informed decision is going to help set appropriate expectations for
(13:17):
that adoption process.Okay.
Ryan, now that you've gone through the process yourself, what sort of misconceptions did you have
that you thought this is the way it was going to work? And now that it's actually you, your lessons
learned after going through the process?Well, my wife and I are in a very unique
(13:39):
situation. We had worked together, we actually met at work at an adoption agency. So we went
in probably more informed about the process itself than almost any other couple would.
So there weren't a ton of surprises there.I'd say we went in pursuing the adoption of
a child who had a medical special need. And one of our assumptions was that that medical special need
(14:04):
would be one of the biggest factors post-adoption that we would be dealing with. And we are in some
ways surprised that it's not. I mean, it's a situation where our son sees a specialist and
he's gotten great care, but we anticipated that his medical special need would be taking
(14:27):
up a lot more of our attention and focus.And in reality, it was some of those more
pedestrian parenting things that are true for all kids that were a larger part of our focus. And
so we just had that expectation for one thing and the focus was on another. And I think it's a good
lesson for really all parents, but certainly parents who are pursuing adoption is to not get
(14:53):
too focused on thinking, you know what the outcome is and to be prepared for some of those really
basic things like focusing on building attachment. That's going to be important for all kids,
but especially a child who's not born to us. Being focused on whatever those needs of that child are
going to be after joining your home and not to be kind of myopic and look just at one thing like
(15:17):
the medical special need and assume that that's going to be where all your attention is spent.
So we talked a little bit about costs and you gave us an overview,
but can you tell us what those costs cover?Yeah, different by type of adoption. So for
private domestic adoption, that infant adoption, the costs are going to cover the payments made to
(15:41):
your adoption agency, for the home study social worker. Sometimes this is happening in your state
or in another state and then there's a separate agency that's doing your home study in state. It's
going to cover legal fees. So there's usually an attorney that's representing the adoptive parents,
often a separate attorney representing the expectant parents or the birth parents in that
(16:01):
situation. So we're covering legal fees.It might cover expenses related to
the expectant mother's needs leading up to the birth and the delivery itself. There are state
laws that determine these things and adoption agency policies as well. So the estimates that
(16:24):
I gave were meant to encompass everything that would be involved in that adoption.
For an international adoption, it would also be covering agency fees. There's some fees paid
to the US government. There's often fees paid to foreign government entities for things that they
might be doing. And a big part of it that people might not think about is the travel. If you're
(16:44):
doing multiple trips or even one trip for a couple of weeks, that can become very expensive. It can
often be a huge part of or the single largest expense associated with the adoption. And so the
estimate that I gave was meant to be encompassing of really everything that would be involved there.
(17:05):
And of course I always tell people, kids are really expensive. So as expensive as the adoption
process is, you're really signing up for way, way, way more every time a child joins our family.
Right. No kidding. I don't mean to tell you, right? Yeah, I look at my friends who didn't
have kids and I think, oh, well, that's why you have the second house and the boat. You
(17:29):
have a better vacation than you, right? You get to retire at 60, good for you.
So, Ryan, what's the difference between open and closed adoption? I imagine that
changes a little bit between states. Does it?It depends what we mean by that. Where state law
(17:50):
can come in is state law can determine what access an adoptee or a birth parent or others might have
to original birth records. Often it's an adoptee seeking their original birth certificate. So
state law can determine that. State law can also govern the, there are often written agreements
(18:11):
between the birth family and the adoptive family about what post-adoption contact looks like. And
state law can say that agreement's court enforceable or it's not court enforceable.
But for the most part, when we're talking about open and closed adoption, we're talking about a
spectrum of openness in a relationship or ongoing engagement and connection in a relationship. And
(18:34):
this can be true for any type of adoption. So it's most often thought about and the way the
media presents it is related to infant adoption, so that private domestic adoption. And the trend
has been for decades that open adoption is the norm, meaning there's an ongoing relationship
between birth family and the adoptive family. That wasn't the case in the ‘70s. It wasn't
(18:59):
as often the case in the ‘80s. It is almost always the case now that there
is an ongoing relationship after the placement.And that can look very different from one family
to the next. It might be that they are meeting on a regular basis. It might be that they see each
other once a year and they stay in touch via text and phone call and FaceTime and all those things
(19:21):
and everything in between. So it really is something that the families are going to
work out for themselves. But their information is known to one another and very importantly,
it's known to the adoptee (19:32):
who are my birth parents, who's my birth family?
And they can do things like share medical health history and other important factors.
It's not just private domestic though. That can be true for adoption from foster care. Sometimes
that's harder if parental rights have been terminated in an involuntary manner. That could
(19:56):
be difficult, but I think it's important if it's a safe thing that we seek to establish some type
of a relationship with the birth family.International adoption is also often
very difficult because there are language differences. There are cultural differences,
time zone differences. There might be a lack of information. And so it can often be challenging,
(20:16):
but again, it's not impossible. And certainly it does happen and it can
be a very helpful and healthy thing for those that are involved to maintain that connection.
So how often do the parents have access to the child's like a thorough medical history
(20:38):
or thorough background? Is that hard to say or?Well, I've said this every question, right? It
depends on the type of an adoption. The norm for an adoption from foster care is that you
would have a lot of information. Generally, there are requirements for a child who's in the child
welfare system to have a case file. So you'd have school records and medical records and you'd have
(21:05):
information that way. Doesn't mean it's complete. It doesn't mean you have all your answers to
your questions, but you would be getting a good amount of information there. We're also talking
usually about a child who's a little older and so there's an ability to get more information.
For an infant adoption, that child might be placed at birth or shortly thereafter. And so we're
(21:30):
talking less about the child's health history than we are information about the birth family or the
expectant parents and understanding what their family history has been and what the pregnancy
experience has been like. Was mom getting prenatal care? Was she using substances? Was she able to
(21:51):
receive the medical assistance that she needed? All of that can be helpful information for the
hopeful adoptive parents to have an understanding of, again, what are my expectations for this
adoption and what does support look like? Even for the adoption agency, knowing that they can
(22:11):
then think, how can I better support this mom in her decision-making? Does she want to place for
adoption? Does she need assistance of some sort?Are there standard physicals and blood work that
are done for every child?In the foster care system,
that's going to be dependent on the system, but there would be a standard system that
(22:34):
they have not to necessarily do blood work and physicals as a way to show the child's profile,
but just to ensure the child's healthy and getting the checkups that the child needs.
And then there would be some level of information that would be shared with the parents who are
(22:55):
seeking to adopt just so they can make an informed decision. They would know if the child has a
medical special need of some sort, or if there was something that warranted that type of attention.
For an international adoption, it's going to be country-specific. And what I would say is, there
are adoption medical specialists who can help families understand that information, but also
(23:22):
understand what additional information they might request. So they might get a potential child's
profile, they might get some basic information, including medical information, that specialist
can say, “hey, work with your adoption agency, see if you can run these labs, or see if you can get
this measurement, like a head circumference,” or something that can be really helpful and
(23:43):
better understanding, again, what our expectations should be.These medical specialists are amazing
at what they can do because they've focused on adoption and child welfare, and many of them have
experience working with these profiles from other countries. And so this is very different than
(24:04):
just taking the information to say, your local pediatrician who doesn't have that expertise.
So what questions should parents ask themselves to understand if they're truly
ready to adopt? If this is what they wanna do?Yeah, number one, they need to be on the same
page as a couple. So if this is a couple that we're talking about, if it's just one
(24:28):
parent who wants to adopt, that's a recipe for disaster later. This is a long-term commitment.
And so being on the same page is important.I mentioned earlier the importance of thinking
through the impact of other children in the home and making any decision with those children's
welfare in mind, along with the needs that the child's going to have, all children have needs,
(24:51):
that's joining the family. And we all have a limited capacity to meet our children's needs.
How are we going to continue to meet the children who are in our home and the needs,
and often more needs for a child who's joining our family through adoption, especially if they have a
history of trauma, if they have a history of abuse and neglect, they have a history of malnutrition
(25:15):
or that institutionalization that can happen. All of that is going to mean therapeutic parenting,
which is a lot of effort, a lot of time, and a lot of care. Being able to provide
that while meeting our other children's needs is a very important consideration.
(25:36):
From there, we want to be thinking about what's the right fit? We can talk through our openness to
different medical needs, our openness to different ages. Many families adopt sibling groups. And so
thinking through all of those factors and making sure, again, we're aligned and this is going to be
(25:58):
good for everyone involved, that's important.And the parents don't have to know all of
that going in. They should have an idea of that, but they should be working with their
adoption agency and certainly even in that home study process with the social worker
to help make a really educated decision about what's going to be best for everyone.
(26:21):
Does your organization help to connect parents that are considering adoption with parents that
have already adopted? That seems to be a good way to interview other families in a different…
Yeah, it absolutely is. What we do is we have a directory where they can find an
adoption agency by type of adoption or within their state so they could search our directory
(26:46):
there. And those agencies are the ones who can say, other families adopted from this country,
talk to them, or other families adopted a child with this medical special need, talk to them.
Because I absolutely agree. Talking to other parents who have had a similar adoption experience
is one of the best ways to know what we're signing up for. Not just a referral on the adoption
(27:08):
agency, that's important, but also find families that have adopted a child of a similar age. Find
families who have adopted a child who has the same medical special need and ask them a lot of
questions. And ask them questions about what life has looked like at different stages. A child joins
our family as a newborn, what's it like having an open adoption at that stage, but also what's
(27:32):
it like in grade school? What's it like being a child in high school and a teenager? What's it
like at all these different stages? And talking to more than one family and hearing multiple
experiences can be really, really helpful.So I know that there's non-profit and
for-profit agencies. If you could talk a little bit about that, and then also how does someone go
(27:57):
about finding the right agency in their area? That seems very overwhelming and difficult.
You know, it can be, and I want to address a few different things about what you said,
including the piece about “their area,” because by type of adoption,
that might be what's important, it might not be.If you're doing an international adoption, I would
(28:20):
select the agency primarily based on the country that you want to adopt from and that agency's
experience, even if that agency's five states away from you. That's what my wife and I did, that's
what I think I would advise for almost anyone, then you can find a local agency to meet the needs
that your state requires to do your home study, to do post-adopt reporting, that sort of thing.
(28:45):
If it's an adoption from foster care, if you're fostering, you're often working with your local
county or your state. Sometimes they privatize and have private agencies partner. Sometimes
those private agencies are for-profit or nonprofit to answer your question,
but you're working within that foster care system.If we're talking about children that are waiting
(29:05):
on adoption in the foster care system, these are often older children. Then they could be in
our state, they might be, again, five states away and we're coordinating with them with these child
welfare agencies on that process and we have our local social services done in state and the child
(29:29):
welfare system where the child is who's helping organize that and arrange parts of that placement.
For private domestic adoption, that is where you're going to want to find an agency that's
licensed in your state, usually, or if this happens to be like an interstate placement,
(29:50):
the agency's licensed in the state where the expectant mother is and she chose your family,
then you're often working across state lines and you've got multiple different entities
there. But you're wanting someone to ensure that they're licensed and that they're licensed to
operate in the states where they're working.For-profit is not as common as nonprofit,
(30:13):
which is the norm. That is what I would recommend for most families that are looking into this,
but most important is getting those referrals, ensuring that they are operating ethically,
talking to other families about their experience. Not all adoption agencies are the same and just
because they're a nonprofit doesn't mean they're going to be acting ethically in
(30:37):
all elements, so finding a good agency is important and I would recommend very much
exactly what you said earlier, talking to other families about what has their experience been.
Okay, great.So if you could give one piece of advice
to someone listening who's on the fence trying to make that final decision, what would it be?
(31:05):
One piece of advice, that is so hard. I would say, go in with eyes wide open. The families
that struggle are the ones who had unrealistic expectations and then are disappointed because
their expectations weren't met and that's often because either they or the adoption agency they're
(31:29):
working with didn't prepare them for what was coming. So, the more they can do to get resources,
get training and to learn about the different range of possibilities, I think they are far
more likely to succeed. And to be clear, most families do, adoptive families tend to thrive,
(31:51):
adoptees tend to thrive, but there are situations where the families really struggle and in those
situations it's often due to unmet expectations.Yeah, so the more you know, the more you learn
in your research, the more that your expectations are going to be aligned.
That's right.Ryan, thank you so much for joining us
(32:16):
today and sharing your thoughts and background and experience. Adoption is such a meaningful journey,
but it's also complicated, a lot to think about and we know our listeners are going to walk away
with clearer questions to ask, more confidence as they think about what's right for their families.
(32:36):
Now, a question we ask on all of our MOB podcasts is we like to leave our moms with sort of a
motto or a guiding phrase that they can say to themselves as they're considering this journey.
Would you have a phrase you would like to share?It's one step at a time in this process. You're
(33:01):
not going to be able to figure all of the answers out for everything and so it's
taking that next step, getting answers to those questions and then keep going.
But if you wait until you have everything figured out, you'll never even get started.
Right.That's great, that's perfect. That's perfect
(33:24):
for every mom, every day, one step at a time.Well, thank you, Ryan…
It's been my pleasure, thank you both.For moms who want to learn more,
we encourage you to visit adoptioncouncil.org. The National Council for Adoption has incredible
resources to help you understand the process, prepare your family, and connect with support.
(33:47):
And of course, thank you to all our moms of boys listening. If you found this episode helpful,
please share it with another mom who might be considering adoption.
And thank you all for joining us today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram,
YouTube, and your favorite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week.
Questions Every Mom Should Ask Welcome to the Mother is a Boy Survival Guide
(00:06):
podcast. I'm Shaw Shaw, author and boy mom of two, here with my co-host Cheryl Bohn. Today,
we're talking about a big topic that so many families think about, but often don't
know where to begin, which is adoption.That's right, Suzy. Whether you're just
starting to explore the idea or you've been considering adoption for a while,
(00:27):
it's very overwhelming. There are emotional, practical, and legal questions that every mom
should ask before taking that leap.To help us sort through all of this,
we're joined by Ryan Hanlon, PhD, president and CEO of the National Council for Adoption.
Ryan has spent his career supporting adoptive families and shaping policy
to make the process better for children and parents alike. He also brings personal
(00:51):
insight from working with countless families at different stages of the adoption journey.
We're so grateful to have Ryan with us to share his perspective. And today's conversation will
focus on before you adopt, but Ryan will be back next week with another podcast
about after the adoption has come through.If you've ever wondered how adoption might
(01:15):
fit into your family story, this episode is for you. Welcome, Ryan.
Thank you, Suzy. I am grateful for this opportunity and love talking about that
pre-adoption stage. And I'll look forward to when we can also talk about that post-adoption stage.
So Ryan, can you tell us a little bit about the National Council for Adoption
(01:38):
and its role in supporting adoptive families?Yeah, absolutely. So the National Council for
Adoption, we call ourselves NCFA. We work with adoption professionals, adoptive families,
and adoption advocates across the country. We do research, we do education, we do advocacy,
promoting policies that are adoption related. And we often are convening people to connect
(02:04):
with one another, learn from one another.For example, we put on a conference every year
in different cities, changes year to year, but we're hosting a conference for essentially
adoption professionals to be learning from one another, to be learning how to improve their
practices and to support one another. We also do that through the online offerings that we provide.
(02:27):
So we try and be involved with all types of adoption as well. So adoption from foster care is
the most common form of adoption in our country. International adoption and private domestic,
what people think of as infant adoption. We focus on all three of those main types of adoption.
So Ryan, what criteria are considered when determining if an individual or
(02:50):
a couple is eligible to adopt?Yeah, that's a great question
and there's a lot to unpack there. So when we're talking about a parent's eligibility,
we would probably talk about it a few different ways. We might talk about it by type of adoption,
and we could then ask the question, who's making that eligibility determination? Or
(03:10):
we could talk about it by, who's making the decision to place a child for adoption and who
are they placing that child for adoption with?So if we were to do an international adoption,
we have to meet our state requirements in terms of eligibility, the US state,
we have to meet the federal requirements for an international adoption, and we have to meet
(03:32):
that foreign country's eligibility requirements. And that's going to change from one country to
another. So there's no simple way to talk about eligibility criteria for international adoption.
But in general, we'd be looking at things like the parents' ages, their income, their health status,
how many other children are in their home. And in some countries, it's going to be tied to the
(03:56):
child request information, meaning the age of the parents might not be as important as
the age difference between the child joining the family and the parents. And so that might
be one of the factors that would be considered.But for different types of adoption, eligibility
criteria are going to look very different. For an international adoption, I mentioned there's
(04:20):
the state, federal, and foreign country, but for a domestic adoption, we're usually just looking at
the state's requirements. Sometimes there might be two states involved because the child being placed
for adoption is in a different state. And then at that point, we're meeting state guidelines. And if
the adoption agency has additional guidelines that they are going to be putting in place.
(04:44):
That's going to differ, of course, from one state to the next. But the general thing they're doing,
they're doing background checks. They're essentially looking to say, is this going to
be a safe home for a child? And then if a social worker is doing that home study with the parents,
and we can talk about what a home study is for those who don't know, they're going to be making
a decision to say, what might that best fit be? Is a family that might be open to adopting siblings?
(05:10):
Perhaps it's a better fit to just adopt one child, approving a family or a couple or an individual to
adopt within a certain age range, or a child who has a medical special need of some sort. So lots
of different factors that can come in just in thinking through eligibility. But in general,
we're looking at state requirements and the kind of best fit or safety for a child.
(05:35):
So, Ryan, I could say in my nuclear family or my family that there have been members
that have adopted kids, and they were different types of adoption and friends
as well. Can you explain the difference in the timelines, in the process requirements,
costs of the various types of adoptions?Let's start with adoption from foster care
(06:00):
because that's the most common type of adoption. It's also the least expensive. It's often free or
very low cost because the public system, the state or the county government, is often the one who's
paying for those services. There are exceptions. There's times where lawyers get involved and
through the court process. But in general, most adoptions are going to be free or low cost.
(06:23):
They often can take a long time. The primary person who is adopting a child is already
fostering that child. That's the most common way that that would happen in our country. And so it
could be that a child's in a home where they're receiving foster care for a couple years. If
(06:45):
that child's unable to reunify with birth family, that child's parents have their parental rights
terminated and the county or the child welfare system is moving towards adoption, it could then
take a year or two longer just to finalize that adoption. But that whole time, if we've just
talked about four years, the child's been living in that same home with those parents during that
(07:08):
process. So talking about timing can be really nuanced when we're talking about foster care.
For private domestic adoption, that infant adoption that we've talked about, that is going to
often be a process of getting paperwork in order, completing a home study, doing all that work in
(07:28):
advance and then waiting on a match. And that wait is the timeframe we'd probably be discussing and
most people would have a lot of questions. And there really is a very wide range there.
I think most couples that are pursuing private domestic adoption should expect 18 months,
two years long wait. But if I met a couple and they said they only waited 12 months,
(07:52):
that wouldn't shock me. If I met a couple and said we're on year three, that also wouldn't
shock me. It's just a very wide range there.One of the determining factors in that type of
an adoption is the match is often determined by the parent or parents who are placing their child
for adoption. So instead of the adoption agency or a foreign country or a child welfare organization
(08:15):
making that match, it's often that expectant mother who's deciding who the adoptive parents are
going to be. And because of that, there's not an easy way to figure out a timeframe. And you could
have two very similar families that have very different experiences in terms of their weight.
That type of an adoption, there are going to be wide ranges in cost as well. But I think a couple
(08:38):
should expect it could cost around $50,000 or so with a number of factors that can make
it less expensive, some that might make it more expensive, but $50,000 is probably a safe range.
And then for international adoption, going to be country specific. So there's not an easy way
to answer that. But again, we're looking at a couple of years both in building the paperwork,
(08:59):
waiting for that match to happen, traveling and completing the adoption. Most families,
it's going to take a couple of years from beginning to end for that to be complete.
And for that type of an adoption, cost is also going to be country specific, but I think families
should look at $40,000 or so as maybe around the average of what other families are paying.
(09:25):
So how do parents determine what the right path for them is? Or how do they even know where
to start to know if they want to foster or adopt an infant or go international?
You know, there's so many things to be thinking about and the way to begin is to just be getting
information. So if this podcast is helpful, I would say keep thinking through ways to get
(09:52):
additional resources, there's a lot online. My organization (adoptioncouncil.org) puts a ton
of our resources online for free because we want people to be able to make well-informed decisions.
And lots of other organizations are doing the same thing. So being really well-informed
is going to make the best decision there.You want to think through the best fit for both
(10:13):
the child and the family. I always tell people if there's other children in the home, that needs to
be an absolute priority in the decision-making as well. We're not just thinking about the parents
and the child that's joining, we're thinking about the whole household. And so we want to
think about what's the impact there, what's the experience for everyone that's involved.
(10:34):
Often the parents' child request information. So what they're hoping for in terms of that adoption
is going to help in making a decision. If you're interested in adopting an infant,
international adoption and adoption from foster care are not a good fit because the
children that are placed for adoption are going to be older and could sometimes be much older,
(10:58):
but they're certainly going to be not infants. That's a very safe way to proceed.
For my family, we have four children. The fourth joined our family through adoption
and age wasn't an important factor for us. Aside from wanting to make sure the child who joined
(11:21):
our family was younger than the youngest child in our household. So that was an important factor for
me and for my wife. But having a newborn wasn't one of the driving factors there.
We chose an international adoption for a number of reasons. And we
were very comfortable with that and had a great experience with the adoption. And of course, our
(11:46):
son is one of the four joys of our life. So we're grateful for him and for all four of our kids. And
for us, we looked at other factors like what the adoption process would be like. And that
was part of what motivated the decision we made to choose an international adoption.
(12:06):
I have a question for you based on some of the things we've talked about. How often does
it happen where a couple or an individual comes with an idea of what they do want for adoption?
And then they don't meet the criteria or maybe they're redirected after they are
going through more of the interview process or after they're evaluated more. Does that happen?
(12:31):
You know, that often would be the case, especially if someone hadn't done a lot of that additional
work on the front end to inform themselves about what the different options or possibilities are.
I mean, to maybe give a more hyperbolic example, if someone came and said, well, I want a newborn
and I want it to be no cost and I want it to be super quick and easy, it's just there isn't an
(12:57):
adoption process like that. And so that's where getting good information in advance to say,
here's what the different options are, here's what these different avenues are going to look like.
And making a decision, a well-informed decision is going to help set appropriate expectations for
(13:17):
that adoption process.Okay.
Ryan, now that you've gone through the process yourself, what sort of misconceptions did you have
that you thought this is the way it was going to work? And now that it's actually you, your lessons
learned after going through the process?Well, my wife and I are in a very unique
(13:39):
situation. We had worked together, we actually met at work at an adoption agency. So we went
in probably more informed about the process itself than almost any other couple would.
So there weren't a ton of surprises there.I'd say we went in pursuing the adoption of
a child who had a medical special need. And one of our assumptions was that that medical special need
(14:04):
would be one of the biggest factors post-adoption that we would be dealing with. And we are in some
ways surprised that it's not. I mean, it's a situation where our son sees a specialist and
he's gotten great care, but we anticipated that his medical special need would be taking
(14:27):
up a lot more of our attention and focus.And in reality, it was some of those more
pedestrian parenting things that are true for all kids that were a larger part of our focus. And
so we just had that expectation for one thing and the focus was on another. And I think it's a good
lesson for really all parents, but certainly parents who are pursuing adoption is to not get
(14:53):
too focused on thinking, you know what the outcome is and to be prepared for some of those really
basic things like focusing on building attachment. That's going to be important for all kids,
but especially a child who's not born to us. Being focused on whatever those needs of that child are
going to be after joining your home and not to be kind of myopic and look just at one thing like
(15:17):
the medical special need and assume that that's going to be where all your attention is spent.
So we talked a little bit about costs and you gave us an overview,
but can you tell us what those costs cover?Yeah, different by type of adoption. So for
private domestic adoption, that infant adoption, the costs are going to cover the payments made to
(15:41):
your adoption agency, for the home study social worker. Sometimes this is happening in your state
or in another state and then there's a separate agency that's doing your home study in state. It's
going to cover legal fees. So there's usually an attorney that's representing the adoptive parents,
often a separate attorney representing the expectant parents or the birth parents in that
(16:01):
situation. So we're covering legal fees.It might cover expenses related to
the expectant mother's needs leading up to the birth and the delivery itself. There are state
laws that determine these things and adoption agency policies as well. So the estimates that
(16:24):
I gave were meant to encompass everything that would be involved in that adoption.
For an international adoption, it would also be covering agency fees. There's some fees paid
to the US government. There's often fees paid to foreign government entities for things that they
might be doing. And a big part of it that people might not think about is the travel. If you're
(16:44):
doing multiple trips or even one trip for a couple of weeks, that can become very expensive. It can
often be a huge part of or the single largest expense associated with the adoption. And so the
estimate that I gave was meant to be encompassing of really everything that would be involved there.
(17:05):
And of course I always tell people, kids are really expensive. So as expensive as the adoption
process is, you're really signing up for way, way, way more every time a child joins our family.
Right. No kidding. I don't mean to tell you, right? Yeah, I look at my friends who didn't
have kids and I think, oh, well, that's why you have the second house and the boat. You
(17:29):
have a better vacation than you, right? You get to retire at 60, good for you.
So, Ryan, what's the difference between open and closed adoption? I imagine that
changes a little bit between states. Does it?It depends what we mean by that. Where state law
(17:50):
can come in is state law can determine what access an adoptee or a birth parent or others might have
to original birth records. Often it's an adoptee seeking their original birth certificate. So
state law can determine that. State law can also govern the, there are often written agreements
(18:11):
between the birth family and the adoptive family about what post-adoption contact looks like. And
state law can say that agreement's court enforceable or it's not court enforceable.
But for the most part, when we're talking about open and closed adoption, we're talking about a
spectrum of openness in a relationship or ongoing engagement and connection in a relationship. And
(18:34):
this can be true for any type of adoption. So it's most often thought about and the way the
media presents it is related to infant adoption, so that private domestic adoption. And the trend
has been for decades that open adoption is the norm, meaning there's an ongoing relationship
between birth family and the adoptive family. That wasn't the case in the ‘70s. It wasn't
(18:59):
as often the case in the ‘80s. It is almost always the case now that there
is an ongoing relationship after the placement.And that can look very different from one family
to the next. It might be that they are meeting on a regular basis. It might be that they see each
other once a year and they stay in touch via text and phone call and FaceTime and all those things
(19:21):
and everything in between. So it really is something that the families are going to
work out for themselves. But their information is known to one another and very importantly,
it's known to the adoptee (19:32):
who are my birth parents, who's my birth family?
And they can do things like share medical health history and other important factors.
It's not just private domestic though. That can be true for adoption from foster care. Sometimes
that's harder if parental rights have been terminated in an involuntary manner. That could
(19:56):
be difficult, but I think it's important if it's a safe thing that we seek to establish some type
of a relationship with the birth family.International adoption is also often
very difficult because there are language differences. There are cultural differences,
time zone differences. There might be a lack of information. And so it can often be challenging,
(20:16):
but again, it's not impossible. And certainly it does happen and it can
be a very helpful and healthy thing for those that are involved to maintain that connection.
So how often do the parents have access to the child's like a thorough medical history
(20:38):
or thorough background? Is that hard to say or?Well, I've said this every question, right? It
depends on the type of an adoption. The norm for an adoption from foster care is that you
would have a lot of information. Generally, there are requirements for a child who's in the child
welfare system to have a case file. So you'd have school records and medical records and you'd have
(21:05):
information that way. Doesn't mean it's complete. It doesn't mean you have all your answers to
your questions, but you would be getting a good amount of information there. We're also talking
usually about a child who's a little older and so there's an ability to get more information.
For an infant adoption, that child might be placed at birth or shortly thereafter. And so we're
(21:30):
talking less about the child's health history than we are information about the birth family or the
expectant parents and understanding what their family history has been and what the pregnancy
experience has been like. Was mom getting prenatal care? Was she using substances? Was she able to
(21:51):
receive the medical assistance that she needed? All of that can be helpful information for the
hopeful adoptive parents to have an understanding of, again, what are my expectations for this
adoption and what does support look like? Even for the adoption agency, knowing that they can
(22:11):
then think, how can I better support this mom in her decision-making? Does she want to place for
adoption? Does she need assistance of some sort?Are there standard physicals and blood work that
are done for every child?In the foster care system,
that's going to be dependent on the system, but there would be a standard system that
(22:34):
they have not to necessarily do blood work and physicals as a way to show the child's profile,
but just to ensure the child's healthy and getting the checkups that the child needs.
And then there would be some level of information that would be shared with the parents who are
(22:55):
seeking to adopt just so they can make an informed decision. They would know if the child has a
medical special need of some sort, or if there was something that warranted that type of attention.
For an international adoption, it's going to be country-specific. And what I would say is, there
are adoption medical specialists who can help families understand that information, but also
(23:22):
understand what additional information they might request. So they might get a potential child's
profile, they might get some basic information, including medical information, that specialist
can say, “hey, work with your adoption agency, see if you can run these labs, or see if you can get
this measurement, like a head circumference,” or something that can be really helpful and
(23:43):
better understanding, again, what our expectations should be.These medical specialists are amazing
at what they can do because they've focused on adoption and child welfare, and many of them have
experience working with these profiles from other countries. And so this is very different than
(24:04):
just taking the information to say, your local pediatrician who doesn't have that expertise.
So what questions should parents ask themselves to understand if they're truly
ready to adopt? If this is what they wanna do?Yeah, number one, they need to be on the same
page as a couple. So if this is a couple that we're talking about, if it's just one
(24:28):
parent who wants to adopt, that's a recipe for disaster later. This is a long-term commitment.
And so being on the same page is important.I mentioned earlier the importance of thinking
through the impact of other children in the home and making any decision with those children's
welfare in mind, along with the needs that the child's going to have, all children have needs,
(24:51):
that's joining the family. And we all have a limited capacity to meet our children's needs.
How are we going to continue to meet the children who are in our home and the needs,
and often more needs for a child who's joining our family through adoption, especially if they have a
history of trauma, if they have a history of abuse and neglect, they have a history of malnutrition
(25:15):
or that institutionalization that can happen. All of that is going to mean therapeutic parenting,
which is a lot of effort, a lot of time, and a lot of care. Being able to provide
that while meeting our other children's needs is a very important consideration.
(25:36):
From there, we want to be thinking about what's the right fit? We can talk through our openness to
different medical needs, our openness to different ages. Many families adopt sibling groups. And so
thinking through all of those factors and making sure, again, we're aligned and this is going to be
(25:58):
good for everyone involved, that's important.And the parents don't have to know all of
that going in. They should have an idea of that, but they should be working with their
adoption agency and certainly even in that home study process with the social worker
to help make a really educated decision about what's going to be best for everyone.
(26:21):
Does your organization help to connect parents that are considering adoption with parents that
have already adopted? That seems to be a good way to interview other families in a different…
Yeah, it absolutely is. What we do is we have a directory where they can find an
adoption agency by type of adoption or within their state so they could search our directory
(26:46):
there. And those agencies are the ones who can say, other families adopted from this country,
talk to them, or other families adopted a child with this medical special need, talk to them.
Because I absolutely agree. Talking to other parents who have had a similar adoption experience
is one of the best ways to know what we're signing up for. Not just a referral on the adoption
(27:08):
agency, that's important, but also find families that have adopted a child of a similar age. Find
families who have adopted a child who has the same medical special need and ask them a lot of
questions. And ask them questions about what life has looked like at different stages. A child joins
our family as a newborn, what's it like having an open adoption at that stage, but also what's
(27:32):
it like in grade school? What's it like being a child in high school and a teenager? What's it
like at all these different stages? And talking to more than one family and hearing multiple
experiences can be really, really helpful.So I know that there's non-profit and
for-profit agencies. If you could talk a little bit about that, and then also how does someone go
(27:57):
about finding the right agency in their area? That seems very overwhelming and difficult.
You know, it can be, and I want to address a few different things about what you said,
including the piece about “their area,” because by type of adoption,
that might be what's important, it might not be.If you're doing an international adoption, I would
(28:20):
select the agency primarily based on the country that you want to adopt from and that agency's
experience, even if that agency's five states away from you. That's what my wife and I did, that's
what I think I would advise for almost anyone, then you can find a local agency to meet the needs
that your state requires to do your home study, to do post-adopt reporting, that sort of thing.
(28:45):
If it's an adoption from foster care, if you're fostering, you're often working with your local
county or your state. Sometimes they privatize and have private agencies partner. Sometimes
those private agencies are for-profit or nonprofit to answer your question,
but you're working within that foster care system.If we're talking about children that are waiting
(29:05):
on adoption in the foster care system, these are often older children. Then they could be in
our state, they might be, again, five states away and we're coordinating with them with these child
welfare agencies on that process and we have our local social services done in state and the child
(29:29):
welfare system where the child is who's helping organize that and arrange parts of that placement.
For private domestic adoption, that is where you're going to want to find an agency that's
licensed in your state, usually, or if this happens to be like an interstate placement,
(29:50):
the agency's licensed in the state where the expectant mother is and she chose your family,
then you're often working across state lines and you've got multiple different entities
there. But you're wanting someone to ensure that they're licensed and that they're licensed to
operate in the states where they're working.For-profit is not as common as nonprofit,
(30:13):
which is the norm. That is what I would recommend for most families that are looking into this,
but most important is getting those referrals, ensuring that they are operating ethically,
talking to other families about their experience. Not all adoption agencies are the same and just
because they're a nonprofit doesn't mean they're going to be acting ethically in
(30:37):
all elements, so finding a good agency is important and I would recommend very much
exactly what you said earlier, talking to other families about what has their experience been.
Okay, great.So if you could give one piece of advice
to someone listening who's on the fence trying to make that final decision, what would it be?
(31:05):
One piece of advice, that is so hard. I would say, go in with eyes wide open. The families
that struggle are the ones who had unrealistic expectations and then are disappointed because
their expectations weren't met and that's often because either they or the adoption agency they're
(31:29):
working with didn't prepare them for what was coming. So, the more they can do to get resources,
get training and to learn about the different range of possibilities, I think they are far
more likely to succeed. And to be clear, most families do, adoptive families tend to thrive,
(31:51):
adoptees tend to thrive, but there are situations where the families really struggle and in those
situations it's often due to unmet expectations.Yeah, so the more you know, the more you learn
in your research, the more that your expectations are going to be aligned.
That's right.Ryan, thank you so much for joining us
(32:16):
today and sharing your thoughts and background and experience. Adoption is such a meaningful journey,
but it's also complicated, a lot to think about and we know our listeners are going to walk away
with clearer questions to ask, more confidence as they think about what's right for their families.
(32:36):
Now, a question we ask on all of our MOB podcasts is we like to leave our moms with sort of a
motto or a guiding phrase that they can say to themselves as they're considering this journey.
Would you have a phrase you would like to share?It's one step at a time in this process. You're
(33:01):
not going to be able to figure all of the answers out for everything and so it's
taking that next step, getting answers to those questions and then keep going.
But if you wait until you have everything figured out, you'll never even get started.
Right.That's great, that's perfect. That's perfect
(33:24):
for every mom, every day, one step at a time.Well, thank you, Ryan…
It's been my pleasure, thank you both.For moms who want to learn more,
we encourage you to visit adoptioncouncil.org. The National Council for Adoption has incredible
resources to help you understand the process, prepare your family, and connect with support.
(33:47):
And of course, thank you to all our moms of boys listening. If you found this episode helpful,
please share it with another mom who might be considering adoption.
And thank you all for joining us today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram,
YouTube, and your favorite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Are You A Charlotte?
In 1997, actress Kristin Davis’ life was forever changed when she took on the role of Charlotte York in Sex and the City. As we watched Carrie, Samantha, Miranda and Charlotte navigate relationships in NYC, the show helped push once unacceptable conversation topics out of the shadows and altered the narrative around women and sex. We all saw ourselves in them as they searched for fulfillment in life, sex and friendships. Now, Kristin Davis wants to connect with you, the fans, and share untold stories and all the behind the scenes. Together, with Kristin and special guests, what will begin with Sex and the City will evolve into talks about themes that are still so relevant today. "Are you a Charlotte?" is much more than just rewatching this beloved show, it brings the past and the present together as we talk with heart, humor and of course some optimism.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.