September 17, 2025 • 35 mins
Adoption isn’t the finish line—it’s the beginning of a lifelong journey. In this episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide, Suzy Shaw and Cheryl Bohn sit down with Ryan Hanlon, PhD, President & CEO of the National Council for Adoption, to talk about what happens after a child comes home. From building attachment and supporting siblings to navigating schools, subsidies, and long-term resources, this conversation unpacks both the challenges and the joys of life after adoption. Whether you’re preparing to adopt or already parenting, you’ll find practical strategies, encouragement, and expert insight to help guide your family.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Life After Adoption, What Parents Need to KnowWelcome back to the Mothers of Boys Survival
Guide Podcast. I'm Suzy Shaw, author and boy mom, here with my co-host Cheryl Bohn.
In our last episode, we talked about the big decision of adoption, how to know if
(00:21):
it's right for you and your family, and what to expect before you take that step.
Today, we're diving into the next chapter: Life After Adoption.
Once you've completed the adoption process and welcomed your child home,
that's when the journey really begins. Parents often have questions about bonding,
(00:41):
attachment, navigating school and community, and supporting a child's emotional needs over time.
We're thrilled to have Ryan Hanlon, PhD, President and CEO of the National Council for Adoption,
back with us for this conversation. Ryan will help us explore this next chapter of adoption.
(01:03):
Welcome back, Ryan.Thank you. It was a
pleasure being with you last time, and I'm looking forward to today's conversation.
Yes, so once the family has made that decision to adopt, can you walk us through how to best
prepare for the child? And it might be helpful if you can sort of… I know that there's needs
(01:26):
that are different with the different ages of children that are adopted. So maybe if
you could break it down with infants, and then toddlers, and then school-age children.
Great question. And I even like the way you phrased the question, because there's ways we
can prepare even before the adoption happens.We talked last time about how it can be a long
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process. Already in the beginning of that process, there's a lot of training that
happens. There's all those background checks, a lot of paperwork. There's often a period of
time where we're waiting, and that waiting period is an opportunity for us to continue
to educate ourselves, to go through training, and to be thinking about what's life going to
look like after this child joins our family.And as your question alluded, that could look
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really different depending on a lot of different factors. I think the biggest one is the age of
that child. And so we're going to be thinking about what's the appropriate developmental stage.
That child might be at a different developmental stage than other children of the same age.
So we want to be prepared for that.And we just want to be thinking through,
is our house prepared? Is it safe? And do we have the resources to meet the needs of our child,
(02:40):
especially a child who may have had adverse childhood experiences before joining our family?
And that can look really different from one child to another. But when I'm thinking through what
this looks like for an infant, I'm thinking about, do I have a safe home? Do I know what this child's
going to need in terms of food, but also health care and lining up visits? A lot of what we're
(03:07):
doing with an infant is the same we would with an infant that would be born to us. We're focused
on meeting the basic needs, responding to that child, getting to know this child, and ensuring
that child's getting good, proper medical care.For older kids, especially school-age kids,
we're juggling a lot of things at once. We might be juggling getting to know a child,
(03:29):
really focusing on that bonding and attachment, but also thinking through, what are my child's
educational needs? Are we prepared for that? Might there be a reason to think about special
accommodations in the educational system?So there's usually a lot for parents to
juggle. And the more work they can do on the front end before an adoption to identify resources,
(03:50):
the easier it will make their life after that adoption placement happens.
So having watched, not adopted a child myself, but seeing that happen with my friends and my family,
I understand how complicated and different that could be from family to family, depending on the
(04:11):
age of the children that are already in the family, if it's going to be a blended family,
or if there aren't other older children, then how's that going to work? So could you share
some practical strategies or examples that really help siblings adjust when a new adopted
(04:34):
child joins the family? Yeah, absolutely. So whenever any child's joining a family,
we want to be preparing those older kids, and that's going to be true even outside of
adoption. Of course, that happens at an age and stage developmentally appropriate manner. Really
young kids are going to have a hard time understanding what this means. If they're,
for example, an only child, and they're used to mom and dad's undivided attention,
(04:58):
all of a sudden a new child comes and is demanding a lot of attention, that can be really hard.
But we want to be, as best we can, preparing children for this. And when an older child
is joining our family, there might be other challenges that are going to be present as well.
There might be a lot of time that's required, perhaps more than would be proportionate for the
(05:19):
number of children on that new child as we're focusing on attachment, focusing on bonding,
getting to know this child, and helping meet this child's needs, including the various different
appointments that could be associated, not just with the adoption, post-adoption meetings with
a social worker, but also things that might be required, like meeting with medical specialists
(05:40):
or others. So we're focused on that.And as we are preparing these children,
we might be thinking about, are there members of the extended family that can come in, not to help
with this new child, but to help with the children who already have relationships with those extended
family members? Could be grandparents, aunts and uncles, individuals who are known to this family,
(06:01):
who are safe, and can help relieve some of that pressure from the parents who want to
be giving a lot of attention, want to be focusing on bonding and attachment with these new children.
For kids that are in the home, they might need education and preparation the way other members
of the extended family might need help. What's the proper terminology we should be using? How do we
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talk to a member of the child's birth family? What term do we say? What name do we use? How do we
navigate that? A lot of times the parents who are pursuing this adoption are teaching
their children and their extended family how they can best be interacting, what kind of
terminology they can use.Yeah. Great points.
(06:48):
Yeah. But what about specifically older kids? If a family is adopting an older child,
are there different resources or more support systems out there
for families that are adopting an older child?Well, one thing I'd want to say, if this is an
adoption from foster care, there is often what's called an adoption subsidy process that happens.
(07:12):
And this is really crucial that parents know about this and go through that subsidy application
process before they finalize an adoption. It doesn't matter what state they're in. It's
required that the adoption subsidy agreement is in place before the adoption is finalized.
Why is this important? Well, it could come with a lot of support for therapeutic resources
(07:36):
and support for that family. So when they're navigating that adoption subsidy application,
they're going to be potentially getting monthly financial support, but they could also get ongoing
support for the child if the child's getting, say, therapy or speech therapy or any type of
(07:57):
mental health services. That could be continued through the support of the child welfare system
that's going to be outlined in that adoption subsidy agreement. So we want to make sure that's
approved before we go to finalization.But if this is a situation where,
say, it's an international adoption of an older child or for whatever reason,
(08:18):
there isn't that subsidy agreement in place, there are still resources available. And depending
on the needs of the child, we'd want to be on the lookout for what is available in my area,
how might I identify an adoption-competent therapist. There are a number of resources that
can help parents find adoption-competent therapists if there's a need for that.
(08:41):
And oftentimes, the school system can be a place where parents can find professionals who
are partnering with them in helping meet their children's needs. Along with the educational
services that are offered, schools have IEPs or 504 plans, and that can be a way to get other
(09:01):
needs met, things like speech therapy or even occupational therapy or other needs that could
happen through partnering with the school. So it's important that parents are aware of that,
and that can be in place to help support their children throughout the school day.
So the subsidy agreement, can you talk to us a little bit more about that? At
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what point is that something that should be filled out by the adoptive families?
Yeah, families that are pursuing the adoption of a child from foster care, the large majority
of families receive an adoption subsidy. It's over 90% of families are getting that adoption
subsidy if they adopt from foster care.And so they're doing that when they're
(09:45):
on the path towards adoption. So the child's birth parents have had their parental rights
terminated in most circumstances, and they are moving towards adoption. They're
concurrently working towards an adoption, and they're completing the subsidy application.
There will be either their adoption agency or a worker through the county system that can
(10:06):
guide them in that adoption subsidy application. Again, the really crucial thing here is that we're
waiting for that subsidy agreement to be approved before we finalize through the court system.
And what are the strategies that can really help with the bonding and attachment? And how long
do you think it takes for a child to settle in?Yeah, great question. For a newborn or an infant,
(10:32):
we want to be thinking about attachment as something that happens over a long period
of time, but where we can be making really big investments in those first few years of life.
We're going to be doing the same things that we would do in a healthy relationship with a
child who's born to us. So lots of eye contact, lots of skin to skin,
hugging, snuggling, ensuring that their needs are met. If the baby's crying, we're on demand to
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feed or to change a diaper to help soothe back to sleep. We're identifying that child's need to be,
we're there to help provide that comfort.And primarily with one or two caregivers
who are building that relationship, usually this is mom and dad, who are really, really focused on
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building that close relationship. That's what attachment looks like.
And then over a period of time, we're allowing that child to explore a little
bit more independently, perhaps as a toddler, and then coming back to mom and dad as that safe base,
that safe place where they know that they're going to continue to get their needs met and be safe.
That's what a good and healthy attachment looks like, and that's how it's built.
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The number one predictor of a child's attachment style is the parent's attachment style. So
parents, this is something they can even be working on prior to the adoption placement
happening. This may sound weird, but if they're getting their own attachment style understood,
and if they need to work on that to get to a healthier place, adults can have what's
(12:05):
called earned secure attachments. They might not originally be in a place where they have
secure attachment, they are able to work through that and develop earned secure attachment. It's
the number one best way to predict that the child will then have a healthy attachment.
That's great advice.For older kids, it can be a bit
more complicated, especially when we're talking about some of those tween and teenage years. Why?
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Because part of the developmentally appropriate thing to do at that stage is to be separating
oneself and finding an individual identity that can be separate from the family. It's a really
hard stage to be at when you're also looking at forming an attached relationship with a caregiver.
It is very challenging for parents. A lot of times what we're focused on is paying attention
(12:54):
to where the child's at developmentally and not just chronologically, ensuring that the needs are
met at that developmental level, providing that same very close, loving relationship where we're
showing the child that their needs are going to be met with us, that they're cared for,
that we're not scared about who they are or them being in our proximity, and that we're
(13:20):
giving them opportunities to explore and then come back to us. We're building that trust with them.
Again, it can be really challenging when what they want is to be focused more on that separation. We
don't want to be forcing them to spend time with us in an inappropriate way. We want to try and
balance that while understanding it's appropriate for teenagers to often want to see their friends
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more than they want to see their family.I would think at that stage that that would
be really, really tricky because they're joining your family, you're trying to identify healthy
boundaries, respect all of those elements, and at the same time, they want their independence.
(14:04):
That's exactly right. It is very challenging. That is often where studies of adoptees, that's an area
where they're the least likely to have that secure attachment style and requires often the most
therapeutic parenting work to achieve that.Like you said, we're setting boundaries,
we're learning to respect one another, and we're learning each other and this new lifestyle
(14:30):
together. Very tricky, but very important and very needed. Older children being placed for adoption
does not preclude an opportunity for healthy attachment. It is very much possible. It very
much does happen. Parents should know that. What that child's history has looked like with prior
caregivers is going to be one of the predictive factor there, but nothing is written in stone.
(14:54):
As I said earlier, even adults, we can change our attachment style throughout our life,
and we can get to a healthier place. We don't want to just say, well, it's a teenager,
it's not going to work. No, often it does work. It's sometimes more work for everyone involved.
We also want to remember when we're talking about attachment, this is a two-way street.
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This isn't the infant attaching to mom and dad. This is parents attaching to the child,
child attaching to the parent. We have to be thinking about this as much work as it
is for us, it's work for this child and or that teenager who's more interested in other things,
that just might mean even more work for us.
(15:42):
What kind of signs, in your experience, does the child display if they are struggling?
Well, certainly a child who's unwilling to have any type of physical interaction,
who is constantly either overly enmeshed with the parents in terms of their relationship,
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or is very avoidant of anything that would look like affection. Those would be really concerning.
If there are concerns that parents are seeing in terms of cruel or unusual behavior,
they absolutely should be seeing a therapist about that, talking to the school as well
to see what they're seeing. For the most part, what we're looking for is looking for
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progress over time. We're not going to expect on day one that we feel like we've bonded and
attached, but we want to be able to look back over a month and say, maybe there was a little
progress over three months and say, yeah, there's definitely been progress over six
months and say, we are getting closer and closer.We're looking at this long-term, it's a marathon,
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not a sprint. Over that first year, did we make substantial progress? Hopefully so,
we still might have work to do.That makes sense.
I really think that time explanation is helpful and not completely related, but at one point I
(17:11):
had major surgery, I had a disc replaced in my neck and everyone comes up to you and says, oh,
do you feel better? I mean, it really took two years for me to heal from that and I couldn't
judge it on a weekly basis, so I personally had to take the step back and just look at
(17:32):
it as monthly the way you're describing.Ryan: Well, I think that's, you're right,
it's a different example, but it's a way for us to help say,
how are we going to be measuring success here?Another thing I'd want to tell your listeners,
it's not a sign of failure that we've called in for additional support, so if we're meeting with a
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therapist ourself or if our child's meeting with a therapist, that doesn't mean that we failed.
That might actually be a sign of success because we're looking for an additional support here,
so we absolutely should be ready to do that for our marriage, if our marriage
is struggling when a child joins our family through adoption, or we should absolutely be
willing to do that for our child to be able to get his or her needs met or for our family
(18:18):
unit to have a better ability to communicate.Right. So with my boys, I had to go into school
and advocate that for them on a regular basis for lots of different things, and
one of the things that occurs to me, I would think, with a child within the foster system
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is that they might not be used to having a backup, having somebody willing to go in and
sit down with the teachers and the educational system and try to come up with a solution.
When I did that, I always found it was more helpful if there was not just me and the other
(19:06):
group, but also a third person, and I would think being able to communicate with your child and
make sure that they understood that that was going on so that they didn't feel so alone,
that that would be a really important thing.Right. And even for those older children to
be participating in those meetings, seeing that they've got advocates for them and seeing the
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teachers working with parents to brainstorm what are ways that we can have needs met,
I think that's really important.And I think you're right. In the
foster care system, it's going to be a mixed bag, but often even, let's say we have a really
great foster parent who's advocating for their child. If a child's having multiple placements or
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is moving from home to home, they might be moving to a different school. That might be disrupted.
It would be very understandable why the child might not be educationally at the same place
as other same age peers. And even with some of those best intentions, we might have to
have some of these needs met. So I think you're exactly right. Having a really strong advocate
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is going to be critically important. And ideally having multiple people there who know the child,
know the situation, and can help advocate for those needs is going to be one of the
better ways to see that their needs are met.Do you have any other tips for helping the
child become comfortable in the new environment and the family?
(20:35):
For an older child, foster care, or an international adoption, what can we do
to not change everything about that child's life? Instead of the child coming and joining our family
and learning the food that we eat, maybe we can ask, what foods do you like? What are you used
to doing? What are ways that we can make that transition so that there are elements from that
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child's past, especially really healthy elements, perhaps maintaining relationships with friends,
family, and others that make it so that this doesn't feel like the child's in a
totally different and foreign environment and that their past life is entirely gone.
How long does the adoption agency stay with the family after the adoption and
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support them? And then what if a special need arises that the family wasn't prepared
for? Is the adoption agency still involved?Yeah, that's a really good question. And if
you remember, the last time we spoke, I said, well, it depends on the type
of adoption. I haven't said that as much in today's conversation, but I can say it here.
(21:42):
That's absolutely true. And there are going to be some agencies that will tell the parents, hey,
we're here for life. So reach out to us anytime. And regardless, I would encourage parents to do
that. Agencies often are aware of resources, even if they're not coming in and providing
that direct support. They might be able to help guide them to find additional support.
(22:06):
But for an adoption from foster care, I mentioned that subsidy agreement.
That's often one way that we're getting that ongoing support. And if a new need arises,
we could talk about either adjusting that subsidy agreement or perhaps it's even written into the
subsidy agreement that if a condition comes up or if something changes, that there would be a step
(22:29):
up in the level of services that are provided.For something like an international adoption
or a private domestic adoption, there's going to be state-mandated follow-up or perhaps the foreign
country has a requirement for what are often referred to as post-adoption or post-placement
reports. And that might happen over a period of a couple of years where every six months or so,
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a social worker is coming, writing a mini assessment of how the family's doing, meeting
with the child, meeting with the whole family unit, and then writing that report. And that's
going to be a great opportunity to report out to the state or to the foreign country just generally
what's happening, but it can also be a really good opportunity for the parents to say, let's
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lean on this social worker. Let's ask a lot of questions. We don't have to pretend everything's
perfect. None of us are perfect parents. All of us have areas that we're working on. Let's see,
do they have resources or advice? Can they connect us with other families that have done the same
thing so that we can be continually improving and focusing on areas that need that support?
(23:40):
So it sounds like that might also be a good question to ask if you're considering adoption,
to ask the adoption agency, what is the process after adoption?
It absolutely is.For your agency, yeah.
It's a great thing to know going in because there are going to be expenses associated
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with it. There's a commitment to certain meetings, the writing of the reports,
and so it's going to be important to have an understanding of what the legal requirements are,
but also there are questions that you can ask an agency. What's your availability? If we need help,
how often are you doing that? It's another question that you can ask to the references when
(24:20):
you're vetting an agency? Have you had to go back for post-adopt support? What did that look like?
And if an agency says, sorry, we're not here for you, that's a bad sign. Agencies
that are continuing to work with the family, staying in touch with them, open to hearing
how they're doing and what additional needs are, that's going to be a really good sign.
(24:46):
So, you know, new parents, I find for your first child, you collect all the information and all
the pictures and every sonogram or as I call them, the Rorschach test. So I would think that,
you know, documenting that for a new child into the family is even more important than typically,
(25:14):
because, you know, I know as a mom, I was much better with my first child than my second child,
right, because then I just got too busy. You had more time and capacity, right? Right.
Cheryl has four kids. I'm sure the fourth, you know, the book, the birth book probably doesn't
look quite as filled out. Right?Yeah. And our camera broke,
(25:36):
our video camera broke, so she has...Well, you know, that brings up, I think, a
really important topic, because one of the things we want to do, especially for kids who are joining
at an older age, is also help capture a lot of their memories and their life experiences before
they joined our family. We don't want to treat this child as though their life started on day one
(25:58):
with our family. No, they had a prior experience. Maybe it was in an overseas orphanage or in
multiple foster homes with their birth family. And those are things that we can try and capture.
A lot of times, adoption agencies work with parents to build what are called a life book,
where they can help tell the story of that child's life before the adoption.
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It might also include information about the adoption itself or, you know, information.
For example, my son loves to look back on my phone and look at all the different pictures
of the time when my wife and I were in China adopting him. He was very little. He doesn't
remember that. He was, you know, a year and a half. But he loves looking at all the photos,
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and we have a story for each one. And for him, that's a lot of fun, so we do it a lot. I mean,
he's, you know, 9 now, so it's been, you know, quite some time. But that's a really special
thing for him to just hear some of those stories.And, you know, anything we can be doing to help
show we understand and respect your life before you joined our family is a way of showing respect
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to birth family. And it's a way of saying, you know, adoption is not when your life started. You
know, it's when you just joined our family. It's an important thing, but we're going to also honor
and show respect for the entirety of your life.I would imagine, too, since you adopted your son
from China and he was a little bit older that it probably took longer for him to understand and for
(27:27):
you to communicate effectively, because English is such a different sounding language than Chinese.
You know, it's amazing, though, how young kids are able to get by without, you know,
language and how they're able to pick up language really quickly. So certainly, compared to, say,
another child who was, you know, a year and a half, he wouldn't have been able to, you know,
(27:51):
understand as much right away, but the way they pick up language is just so incredible.
But for older kids, it can take longer, and certainly, you know, teenagers and older,
it can take, you know, quite some time, and it requires a lot of patience, but families
usually do very, very well, and that's rarely one of the major issues that they experience.
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It's often, you know, maybe something like speech therapy might be needed later, but it's just
incredible to see how quickly children are able to pick up a new language. It makes me actually
kind of jealous of how they're able to do that.And when it's time for a parent to sort of explain
(28:40):
to a child that they have been adopted, is that right? Do you have any suggestions for that?
Yeah, my suggestion is to make it such a normal part of a conversation that you never have to
sit down and explain to that child that they were adopted, because they will always have known that,
you know. So, you know, for very young kids, they're hearing that,
(29:00):
and they're talking about it frequently enough, and in a comfortable enough way that
it's never coming as a surprise for them later.For older kids, they're going to be participating
in this adoption. So we're not keeping secrets, we're not pretending that they aren't adopted,
and we're not avoiding the topic with them. If we avoid a topic with them, say we never talk about
(29:21):
birth family, or we never talk about the fact that they joined the family through adoption,
the child might think that avoidance is something to be ashamed of, or something
the parents are scared of, or something that's not, you know, good. And so we want to send the
opposite message. We want to say this is a safe topic, this is an okay topic for us to talk about.
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And we can give them the language that they can understand what it means, yes, they joined
our family differently, say, than a sibling might have, or, you know, other kids in the neighborhood
might have joined their families, and they have words, you know, to understand that, that might
even put them in a situation where they can help explain it to others who don't understand.
(30:03):
I know, this is a big question. If there was one thing that you had to say would
really have a big impact on having long-term success with adoption, what would that be?
To keep at whatever it is with the mindset that all of us are able to grow and change and heal.
(30:29):
And so if we're encountering a challenge to not lose heart, but to look for that slow and
steady progress we talked about earlier, and to do that over a long period of time
and not just a short period of time.I talked about not having too strict
of expectations. I think we can have, you know, high expectations in that our
(30:52):
kids are going to thrive. I think that's an appropriate thing for parents to do,
but to not have such high or specific expectations as to say, you know, by this grade, they're going
to have perfect grades or they're going to achieve something in sports or they're going to, you know,
achieve a certain career outcome, you know, instead holding that part much more loosely.
(31:13):
Yeah, I know, you know, we have so many different conversations about boys and raising boys and
something that has come up often is just, you know, everybody's developmental stage
is different. And some kids might be, you know, really strong athletes in, you know,
middle school and then they aren't as coordinated in high school or some people might not be good
(31:36):
readers when they're younger and then all of a sudden they're really great readers in high
school and middle school. So yeah, I think that that's great advice and a great point.
Well, and one of the challenging things for parents is when their kids are at different
developmental stages that don't align with their age. So they might be exceeding in their academics
(31:59):
and, you know, floundering in other areas. They might be physically very developed or
underdeveloped. And so even if, you know, it's not, it would be in some ways a lot simpler if
they were just, you know, one year delayed in every domain, instead it could be, you know,
really scattered. And that means as parents, we're really attuned and paying attention to say, you
know, how are they developing in terms of their academics? How are they developing in terms of,
(32:25):
you know, physically and emotionally and, you know, all the different aspects of their life.
Socially….Social is a really good example. And
our ability to then say, okay, I'm going to parent my kid like a 6-year-old in this way, and like an
eight-year-old in this way, and a 10-year-old in this way, that's a lot, lot harder than it sounds.
(32:47):
And you know, if there's two parents involved being on the same page, talking about that,
and then thinking through, you know, what are we going to do to help, you know,
boost development in this area and not hold the child back in that area, that can be a
real challenge. That's what we're signing up for.So, Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. And we
(33:10):
ask all of our guests for a motto. We asked you last time. I would say that, my motto, which we
talk about at the end of every single podcast is be kind to yourself. But it seems so patience is
a big part of what you're also communicating.Whatever the combination of patience and
(33:31):
flexibility is, I think that's what's needed. And perhaps that's true for how one treats oneself,
but also how they're choosing to parent. I think it's good advice for all kids,
but certainly if there's a child who requires more of us in terms of that therapeutic parenting,
being patient, being flexible, not worrying what the neighbors think, not worrying what, you know,
(33:56):
every other, you know, parent out there thinks, but worrying, you know, what does my child need
and how am I going to get that for them?SRight.
Absolutely. Yeah, that's wonderful.This has been a very, very helpful
conversation to, you know, parents who are considering or launching into the adoption
process. We know it doesn't end, you know, until the, at any given point, I mean, it's a lifelong
(34:24):
journey for parents and kids, and it's just another chapter in the whole chapter of life.
That's exactly right. And I want to thank you for having me back and thank you listeners for
their support of families. It's a really important thing. So we appreciate this.
(34:45):
And thank you to our listeners for being part of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide community.
If you found today's episode helpful, we'd love for you to share it with a friend,
subscribe or leave a review so more families can join the conversation.
Remember wherever you are on your adoption journey, you don't have to do it alone.
There are resources like Ryan and his organization and communities and people ready to walk along
(35:11):
beside you. And for moms who want to learn more, we encourage you to visit the adoptioncouncil.org,
which is the group that Ryan is with, which has incredible resources to help you understand the
process and prepare your family and connect with support. Thank you for listening,
and we'll see you next time.And thank you all for joining us
(35:34):
today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and your favorite podcast platform.
Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week. you
Life After Adoption, What Parents Need to KnowWelcome back to the Mothers of Boys Survival
Guide Podcast. I'm Suzy Shaw, author and boy mom, here with my co-host Cheryl Bohn.
In our last episode, we talked about the big decision of adoption, how to know if
(00:21):
it's right for you and your family, and what to expect before you take that step.
Today, we're diving into the next chapter: Life After Adoption.
Once you've completed the adoption process and welcomed your child home,
that's when the journey really begins. Parents often have questions about bonding,
(00:41):
attachment, navigating school and community, and supporting a child's emotional needs over time.
We're thrilled to have Ryan Hanlon, PhD, President and CEO of the National Council for Adoption,
back with us for this conversation. Ryan will help us explore this next chapter of adoption.
(01:03):
Welcome back, Ryan.Thank you. It was a
pleasure being with you last time, and I'm looking forward to today's conversation.
Yes, so once the family has made that decision to adopt, can you walk us through how to best
prepare for the child? And it might be helpful if you can sort of… I know that there's needs
(01:26):
that are different with the different ages of children that are adopted. So maybe if
you could break it down with infants, and then toddlers, and then school-age children.
Great question. And I even like the way you phrased the question, because there's ways we
can prepare even before the adoption happens.We talked last time about how it can be a long
(01:48):
process. Already in the beginning of that process, there's a lot of training that
happens. There's all those background checks, a lot of paperwork. There's often a period of
time where we're waiting, and that waiting period is an opportunity for us to continue
to educate ourselves, to go through training, and to be thinking about what's life going to
look like after this child joins our family.And as your question alluded, that could look
(02:15):
really different depending on a lot of different factors. I think the biggest one is the age of
that child. And so we're going to be thinking about what's the appropriate developmental stage.
That child might be at a different developmental stage than other children of the same age.
So we want to be prepared for that.And we just want to be thinking through,
is our house prepared? Is it safe? And do we have the resources to meet the needs of our child,
(02:40):
especially a child who may have had adverse childhood experiences before joining our family?
And that can look really different from one child to another. But when I'm thinking through what
this looks like for an infant, I'm thinking about, do I have a safe home? Do I know what this child's
going to need in terms of food, but also health care and lining up visits? A lot of what we're
(03:07):
doing with an infant is the same we would with an infant that would be born to us. We're focused
on meeting the basic needs, responding to that child, getting to know this child, and ensuring
that child's getting good, proper medical care.For older kids, especially school-age kids,
we're juggling a lot of things at once. We might be juggling getting to know a child,
(03:29):
really focusing on that bonding and attachment, but also thinking through, what are my child's
educational needs? Are we prepared for that? Might there be a reason to think about special
accommodations in the educational system?So there's usually a lot for parents to
juggle. And the more work they can do on the front end before an adoption to identify resources,
(03:50):
the easier it will make their life after that adoption placement happens.
So having watched, not adopted a child myself, but seeing that happen with my friends and my family,
I understand how complicated and different that could be from family to family, depending on the
(04:11):
age of the children that are already in the family, if it's going to be a blended family,
or if there aren't other older children, then how's that going to work? So could you share
some practical strategies or examples that really help siblings adjust when a new adopted
(04:34):
child joins the family? Yeah, absolutely. So whenever any child's joining a family,
we want to be preparing those older kids, and that's going to be true even outside of
adoption. Of course, that happens at an age and stage developmentally appropriate manner. Really
young kids are going to have a hard time understanding what this means. If they're,
for example, an only child, and they're used to mom and dad's undivided attention,
(04:58):
all of a sudden a new child comes and is demanding a lot of attention, that can be really hard.
But we want to be, as best we can, preparing children for this. And when an older child
is joining our family, there might be other challenges that are going to be present as well.
There might be a lot of time that's required, perhaps more than would be proportionate for the
(05:19):
number of children on that new child as we're focusing on attachment, focusing on bonding,
getting to know this child, and helping meet this child's needs, including the various different
appointments that could be associated, not just with the adoption, post-adoption meetings with
a social worker, but also things that might be required, like meeting with medical specialists
(05:40):
or others. So we're focused on that.And as we are preparing these children,
we might be thinking about, are there members of the extended family that can come in, not to help
with this new child, but to help with the children who already have relationships with those extended
family members? Could be grandparents, aunts and uncles, individuals who are known to this family,
(06:01):
who are safe, and can help relieve some of that pressure from the parents who want to
be giving a lot of attention, want to be focusing on bonding and attachment with these new children.
For kids that are in the home, they might need education and preparation the way other members
of the extended family might need help. What's the proper terminology we should be using? How do we
(06:26):
talk to a member of the child's birth family? What term do we say? What name do we use? How do we
navigate that? A lot of times the parents who are pursuing this adoption are teaching
their children and their extended family how they can best be interacting, what kind of
terminology they can use.Yeah. Great points.
(06:48):
Yeah. But what about specifically older kids? If a family is adopting an older child,
are there different resources or more support systems out there
for families that are adopting an older child?Well, one thing I'd want to say, if this is an
adoption from foster care, there is often what's called an adoption subsidy process that happens.
(07:12):
And this is really crucial that parents know about this and go through that subsidy application
process before they finalize an adoption. It doesn't matter what state they're in. It's
required that the adoption subsidy agreement is in place before the adoption is finalized.
Why is this important? Well, it could come with a lot of support for therapeutic resources
(07:36):
and support for that family. So when they're navigating that adoption subsidy application,
they're going to be potentially getting monthly financial support, but they could also get ongoing
support for the child if the child's getting, say, therapy or speech therapy or any type of
(07:57):
mental health services. That could be continued through the support of the child welfare system
that's going to be outlined in that adoption subsidy agreement. So we want to make sure that's
approved before we go to finalization.But if this is a situation where,
say, it's an international adoption of an older child or for whatever reason,
(08:18):
there isn't that subsidy agreement in place, there are still resources available. And depending
on the needs of the child, we'd want to be on the lookout for what is available in my area,
how might I identify an adoption-competent therapist. There are a number of resources that
can help parents find adoption-competent therapists if there's a need for that.
(08:41):
And oftentimes, the school system can be a place where parents can find professionals who
are partnering with them in helping meet their children's needs. Along with the educational
services that are offered, schools have IEPs or 504 plans, and that can be a way to get other
(09:01):
needs met, things like speech therapy or even occupational therapy or other needs that could
happen through partnering with the school. So it's important that parents are aware of that,
and that can be in place to help support their children throughout the school day.
So the subsidy agreement, can you talk to us a little bit more about that? At
(09:22):
what point is that something that should be filled out by the adoptive families?
Yeah, families that are pursuing the adoption of a child from foster care, the large majority
of families receive an adoption subsidy. It's over 90% of families are getting that adoption
subsidy if they adopt from foster care.And so they're doing that when they're
(09:45):
on the path towards adoption. So the child's birth parents have had their parental rights
terminated in most circumstances, and they are moving towards adoption. They're
concurrently working towards an adoption, and they're completing the subsidy application.
There will be either their adoption agency or a worker through the county system that can
(10:06):
guide them in that adoption subsidy application. Again, the really crucial thing here is that we're
waiting for that subsidy agreement to be approved before we finalize through the court system.
And what are the strategies that can really help with the bonding and attachment? And how long
do you think it takes for a child to settle in?Yeah, great question. For a newborn or an infant,
(10:32):
we want to be thinking about attachment as something that happens over a long period
of time, but where we can be making really big investments in those first few years of life.
We're going to be doing the same things that we would do in a healthy relationship with a
child who's born to us. So lots of eye contact, lots of skin to skin,
hugging, snuggling, ensuring that their needs are met. If the baby's crying, we're on demand to
(10:59):
feed or to change a diaper to help soothe back to sleep. We're identifying that child's need to be,
we're there to help provide that comfort.And primarily with one or two caregivers
who are building that relationship, usually this is mom and dad, who are really, really focused on
(11:20):
building that close relationship. That's what attachment looks like.
And then over a period of time, we're allowing that child to explore a little
bit more independently, perhaps as a toddler, and then coming back to mom and dad as that safe base,
that safe place where they know that they're going to continue to get their needs met and be safe.
That's what a good and healthy attachment looks like, and that's how it's built.
(11:43):
The number one predictor of a child's attachment style is the parent's attachment style. So
parents, this is something they can even be working on prior to the adoption placement
happening. This may sound weird, but if they're getting their own attachment style understood,
and if they need to work on that to get to a healthier place, adults can have what's
(12:05):
called earned secure attachments. They might not originally be in a place where they have
secure attachment, they are able to work through that and develop earned secure attachment. It's
the number one best way to predict that the child will then have a healthy attachment.
That's great advice.For older kids, it can be a bit
more complicated, especially when we're talking about some of those tween and teenage years. Why?
(12:30):
Because part of the developmentally appropriate thing to do at that stage is to be separating
oneself and finding an individual identity that can be separate from the family. It's a really
hard stage to be at when you're also looking at forming an attached relationship with a caregiver.
It is very challenging for parents. A lot of times what we're focused on is paying attention
(12:54):
to where the child's at developmentally and not just chronologically, ensuring that the needs are
met at that developmental level, providing that same very close, loving relationship where we're
showing the child that their needs are going to be met with us, that they're cared for,
that we're not scared about who they are or them being in our proximity, and that we're
(13:20):
giving them opportunities to explore and then come back to us. We're building that trust with them.
Again, it can be really challenging when what they want is to be focused more on that separation. We
don't want to be forcing them to spend time with us in an inappropriate way. We want to try and
balance that while understanding it's appropriate for teenagers to often want to see their friends
(13:42):
more than they want to see their family.I would think at that stage that that would
be really, really tricky because they're joining your family, you're trying to identify healthy
boundaries, respect all of those elements, and at the same time, they want their independence.
(14:04):
That's exactly right. It is very challenging. That is often where studies of adoptees, that's an area
where they're the least likely to have that secure attachment style and requires often the most
therapeutic parenting work to achieve that.Like you said, we're setting boundaries,
we're learning to respect one another, and we're learning each other and this new lifestyle
(14:30):
together. Very tricky, but very important and very needed. Older children being placed for adoption
does not preclude an opportunity for healthy attachment. It is very much possible. It very
much does happen. Parents should know that. What that child's history has looked like with prior
caregivers is going to be one of the predictive factor there, but nothing is written in stone.
(14:54):
As I said earlier, even adults, we can change our attachment style throughout our life,
and we can get to a healthier place. We don't want to just say, well, it's a teenager,
it's not going to work. No, often it does work. It's sometimes more work for everyone involved.
We also want to remember when we're talking about attachment, this is a two-way street.
(15:16):
This isn't the infant attaching to mom and dad. This is parents attaching to the child,
child attaching to the parent. We have to be thinking about this as much work as it
is for us, it's work for this child and or that teenager who's more interested in other things,
that just might mean even more work for us.
(15:42):
What kind of signs, in your experience, does the child display if they are struggling?
Well, certainly a child who's unwilling to have any type of physical interaction,
who is constantly either overly enmeshed with the parents in terms of their relationship,
(16:03):
or is very avoidant of anything that would look like affection. Those would be really concerning.
If there are concerns that parents are seeing in terms of cruel or unusual behavior,
they absolutely should be seeing a therapist about that, talking to the school as well
to see what they're seeing. For the most part, what we're looking for is looking for
(16:28):
progress over time. We're not going to expect on day one that we feel like we've bonded and
attached, but we want to be able to look back over a month and say, maybe there was a little
progress over three months and say, yeah, there's definitely been progress over six
months and say, we are getting closer and closer.We're looking at this long-term, it's a marathon,
(16:50):
not a sprint. Over that first year, did we make substantial progress? Hopefully so,
we still might have work to do.That makes sense.
I really think that time explanation is helpful and not completely related, but at one point I
(17:11):
had major surgery, I had a disc replaced in my neck and everyone comes up to you and says, oh,
do you feel better? I mean, it really took two years for me to heal from that and I couldn't
judge it on a weekly basis, so I personally had to take the step back and just look at
(17:32):
it as monthly the way you're describing.Ryan: Well, I think that's, you're right,
it's a different example, but it's a way for us to help say,
how are we going to be measuring success here?Another thing I'd want to tell your listeners,
it's not a sign of failure that we've called in for additional support, so if we're meeting with a
(17:53):
therapist ourself or if our child's meeting with a therapist, that doesn't mean that we failed.
That might actually be a sign of success because we're looking for an additional support here,
so we absolutely should be ready to do that for our marriage, if our marriage
is struggling when a child joins our family through adoption, or we should absolutely be
willing to do that for our child to be able to get his or her needs met or for our family
(18:18):
unit to have a better ability to communicate.Right. So with my boys, I had to go into school
and advocate that for them on a regular basis for lots of different things, and
one of the things that occurs to me, I would think, with a child within the foster system
(18:42):
is that they might not be used to having a backup, having somebody willing to go in and
sit down with the teachers and the educational system and try to come up with a solution.
When I did that, I always found it was more helpful if there was not just me and the other
(19:06):
group, but also a third person, and I would think being able to communicate with your child and
make sure that they understood that that was going on so that they didn't feel so alone,
that that would be a really important thing.Right. And even for those older children to
be participating in those meetings, seeing that they've got advocates for them and seeing the
(19:30):
teachers working with parents to brainstorm what are ways that we can have needs met,
I think that's really important.And I think you're right. In the
foster care system, it's going to be a mixed bag, but often even, let's say we have a really
great foster parent who's advocating for their child. If a child's having multiple placements or
(19:51):
is moving from home to home, they might be moving to a different school. That might be disrupted.
It would be very understandable why the child might not be educationally at the same place
as other same age peers. And even with some of those best intentions, we might have to
have some of these needs met. So I think you're exactly right. Having a really strong advocate
(20:15):
is going to be critically important. And ideally having multiple people there who know the child,
know the situation, and can help advocate for those needs is going to be one of the
better ways to see that their needs are met.Do you have any other tips for helping the
child become comfortable in the new environment and the family?
(20:35):
For an older child, foster care, or an international adoption, what can we do
to not change everything about that child's life? Instead of the child coming and joining our family
and learning the food that we eat, maybe we can ask, what foods do you like? What are you used
to doing? What are ways that we can make that transition so that there are elements from that
(20:58):
child's past, especially really healthy elements, perhaps maintaining relationships with friends,
family, and others that make it so that this doesn't feel like the child's in a
totally different and foreign environment and that their past life is entirely gone.
How long does the adoption agency stay with the family after the adoption and
(21:21):
support them? And then what if a special need arises that the family wasn't prepared
for? Is the adoption agency still involved?Yeah, that's a really good question. And if
you remember, the last time we spoke, I said, well, it depends on the type
of adoption. I haven't said that as much in today's conversation, but I can say it here.
(21:42):
That's absolutely true. And there are going to be some agencies that will tell the parents, hey,
we're here for life. So reach out to us anytime. And regardless, I would encourage parents to do
that. Agencies often are aware of resources, even if they're not coming in and providing
that direct support. They might be able to help guide them to find additional support.
(22:06):
But for an adoption from foster care, I mentioned that subsidy agreement.
That's often one way that we're getting that ongoing support. And if a new need arises,
we could talk about either adjusting that subsidy agreement or perhaps it's even written into the
subsidy agreement that if a condition comes up or if something changes, that there would be a step
(22:29):
up in the level of services that are provided.For something like an international adoption
or a private domestic adoption, there's going to be state-mandated follow-up or perhaps the foreign
country has a requirement for what are often referred to as post-adoption or post-placement
reports. And that might happen over a period of a couple of years where every six months or so,
(22:55):
a social worker is coming, writing a mini assessment of how the family's doing, meeting
with the child, meeting with the whole family unit, and then writing that report. And that's
going to be a great opportunity to report out to the state or to the foreign country just generally
what's happening, but it can also be a really good opportunity for the parents to say, let's
(23:15):
lean on this social worker. Let's ask a lot of questions. We don't have to pretend everything's
perfect. None of us are perfect parents. All of us have areas that we're working on. Let's see,
do they have resources or advice? Can they connect us with other families that have done the same
thing so that we can be continually improving and focusing on areas that need that support?
(23:40):
So it sounds like that might also be a good question to ask if you're considering adoption,
to ask the adoption agency, what is the process after adoption?
It absolutely is.For your agency, yeah.
It's a great thing to know going in because there are going to be expenses associated
(24:00):
with it. There's a commitment to certain meetings, the writing of the reports,
and so it's going to be important to have an understanding of what the legal requirements are,
but also there are questions that you can ask an agency. What's your availability? If we need help,
how often are you doing that? It's another question that you can ask to the references when
(24:20):
you're vetting an agency? Have you had to go back for post-adopt support? What did that look like?
And if an agency says, sorry, we're not here for you, that's a bad sign. Agencies
that are continuing to work with the family, staying in touch with them, open to hearing
how they're doing and what additional needs are, that's going to be a really good sign.
(24:46):
So, you know, new parents, I find for your first child, you collect all the information and all
the pictures and every sonogram or as I call them, the Rorschach test. So I would think that,
you know, documenting that for a new child into the family is even more important than typically,
(25:14):
because, you know, I know as a mom, I was much better with my first child than my second child,
right, because then I just got too busy. You had more time and capacity, right? Right.
Cheryl has four kids. I'm sure the fourth, you know, the book, the birth book probably doesn't
look quite as filled out. Right?Yeah. And our camera broke,
(25:36):
our video camera broke, so she has...Well, you know, that brings up, I think, a
really important topic, because one of the things we want to do, especially for kids who are joining
at an older age, is also help capture a lot of their memories and their life experiences before
they joined our family. We don't want to treat this child as though their life started on day one
(25:58):
with our family. No, they had a prior experience. Maybe it was in an overseas orphanage or in
multiple foster homes with their birth family. And those are things that we can try and capture.
A lot of times, adoption agencies work with parents to build what are called a life book,
where they can help tell the story of that child's life before the adoption.
(26:19):
It might also include information about the adoption itself or, you know, information.
For example, my son loves to look back on my phone and look at all the different pictures
of the time when my wife and I were in China adopting him. He was very little. He doesn't
remember that. He was, you know, a year and a half. But he loves looking at all the photos,
(26:40):
and we have a story for each one. And for him, that's a lot of fun, so we do it a lot. I mean,
he's, you know, 9 now, so it's been, you know, quite some time. But that's a really special
thing for him to just hear some of those stories.And, you know, anything we can be doing to help
show we understand and respect your life before you joined our family is a way of showing respect
(27:02):
to birth family. And it's a way of saying, you know, adoption is not when your life started. You
know, it's when you just joined our family. It's an important thing, but we're going to also honor
and show respect for the entirety of your life.I would imagine, too, since you adopted your son
from China and he was a little bit older that it probably took longer for him to understand and for
(27:27):
you to communicate effectively, because English is such a different sounding language than Chinese.
You know, it's amazing, though, how young kids are able to get by without, you know,
language and how they're able to pick up language really quickly. So certainly, compared to, say,
another child who was, you know, a year and a half, he wouldn't have been able to, you know,
(27:51):
understand as much right away, but the way they pick up language is just so incredible.
But for older kids, it can take longer, and certainly, you know, teenagers and older,
it can take, you know, quite some time, and it requires a lot of patience, but families
usually do very, very well, and that's rarely one of the major issues that they experience.
(28:18):
It's often, you know, maybe something like speech therapy might be needed later, but it's just
incredible to see how quickly children are able to pick up a new language. It makes me actually
kind of jealous of how they're able to do that.And when it's time for a parent to sort of explain
(28:40):
to a child that they have been adopted, is that right? Do you have any suggestions for that?
Yeah, my suggestion is to make it such a normal part of a conversation that you never have to
sit down and explain to that child that they were adopted, because they will always have known that,
you know. So, you know, for very young kids, they're hearing that,
(29:00):
and they're talking about it frequently enough, and in a comfortable enough way that
it's never coming as a surprise for them later.For older kids, they're going to be participating
in this adoption. So we're not keeping secrets, we're not pretending that they aren't adopted,
and we're not avoiding the topic with them. If we avoid a topic with them, say we never talk about
(29:21):
birth family, or we never talk about the fact that they joined the family through adoption,
the child might think that avoidance is something to be ashamed of, or something
the parents are scared of, or something that's not, you know, good. And so we want to send the
opposite message. We want to say this is a safe topic, this is an okay topic for us to talk about.
(29:42):
And we can give them the language that they can understand what it means, yes, they joined
our family differently, say, than a sibling might have, or, you know, other kids in the neighborhood
might have joined their families, and they have words, you know, to understand that, that might
even put them in a situation where they can help explain it to others who don't understand.
(30:03):
I know, this is a big question. If there was one thing that you had to say would
really have a big impact on having long-term success with adoption, what would that be?
To keep at whatever it is with the mindset that all of us are able to grow and change and heal.
(30:29):
And so if we're encountering a challenge to not lose heart, but to look for that slow and
steady progress we talked about earlier, and to do that over a long period of time
and not just a short period of time.I talked about not having too strict
of expectations. I think we can have, you know, high expectations in that our
(30:52):
kids are going to thrive. I think that's an appropriate thing for parents to do,
but to not have such high or specific expectations as to say, you know, by this grade, they're going
to have perfect grades or they're going to achieve something in sports or they're going to, you know,
achieve a certain career outcome, you know, instead holding that part much more loosely.
(31:13):
Yeah, I know, you know, we have so many different conversations about boys and raising boys and
something that has come up often is just, you know, everybody's developmental stage
is different. And some kids might be, you know, really strong athletes in, you know,
middle school and then they aren't as coordinated in high school or some people might not be good
(31:36):
readers when they're younger and then all of a sudden they're really great readers in high
school and middle school. So yeah, I think that that's great advice and a great point.
Well, and one of the challenging things for parents is when their kids are at different
developmental stages that don't align with their age. So they might be exceeding in their academics
(31:59):
and, you know, floundering in other areas. They might be physically very developed or
underdeveloped. And so even if, you know, it's not, it would be in some ways a lot simpler if
they were just, you know, one year delayed in every domain, instead it could be, you know,
really scattered. And that means as parents, we're really attuned and paying attention to say, you
know, how are they developing in terms of their academics? How are they developing in terms of,
(32:25):
you know, physically and emotionally and, you know, all the different aspects of their life.
Socially….Social is a really good example. And
our ability to then say, okay, I'm going to parent my kid like a 6-year-old in this way, and like an
eight-year-old in this way, and a 10-year-old in this way, that's a lot, lot harder than it sounds.
(32:47):
And you know, if there's two parents involved being on the same page, talking about that,
and then thinking through, you know, what are we going to do to help, you know,
boost development in this area and not hold the child back in that area, that can be a
real challenge. That's what we're signing up for.So, Ryan, thank you so much for joining us. And we
(33:10):
ask all of our guests for a motto. We asked you last time. I would say that, my motto, which we
talk about at the end of every single podcast is be kind to yourself. But it seems so patience is
a big part of what you're also communicating.Whatever the combination of patience and
(33:31):
flexibility is, I think that's what's needed. And perhaps that's true for how one treats oneself,
but also how they're choosing to parent. I think it's good advice for all kids,
but certainly if there's a child who requires more of us in terms of that therapeutic parenting,
being patient, being flexible, not worrying what the neighbors think, not worrying what, you know,
(33:56):
every other, you know, parent out there thinks, but worrying, you know, what does my child need
and how am I going to get that for them?SRight.
Absolutely. Yeah, that's wonderful.This has been a very, very helpful
conversation to, you know, parents who are considering or launching into the adoption
process. We know it doesn't end, you know, until the, at any given point, I mean, it's a lifelong
(34:24):
journey for parents and kids, and it's just another chapter in the whole chapter of life.
That's exactly right. And I want to thank you for having me back and thank you listeners for
their support of families. It's a really important thing. So we appreciate this.
(34:45):
And thank you to our listeners for being part of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide community.
If you found today's episode helpful, we'd love for you to share it with a friend,
subscribe or leave a review so more families can join the conversation.
Remember wherever you are on your adoption journey, you don't have to do it alone.
There are resources like Ryan and his organization and communities and people ready to walk along
(35:11):
beside you. And for moms who want to learn more, we encourage you to visit the adoptioncouncil.org,
which is the group that Ryan is with, which has incredible resources to help you understand the
process and prepare your family and connect with support. Thank you for listening,
and we'll see you next time.And thank you all for joining us
(35:34):
today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and your favorite podcast platform.
Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week. you
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