July 16, 2025 • 30 mins
Purposeful Play: Raising Boys Who Learn by Doing
Is your son always on the move, building, pretending, or turning life into a game? You’re not alone—and it’s not just play, it’s purposeful learning!
In this inspiring episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide, veteran kindergarten teacher and boy mom Kathy Baer joins Suzy Shaw and Cheryl Bohn to break down how purposeful play builds brain development, supports emotional growth, and teaches vital life skills like communication, collaboration, creativity, and critical thinking.
💡 Discover how simple activities—like playing with a cardboard box—can spark imagination, boost confidence, and even improve learning outcomes. 👦 Hear powerful stories from Kathy’s 36 years in the classroom (including one that might bring you to tears). 🏠 Get creative ideas for summer play that doesn’t require fancy toys or nonstop supervision.
🎙 Listen now on your favorite podcast platform 📘 Grab the book: Mothers of Boys Survival Guide 🌐 Join the community: MothersOfBoys.life
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Purposeful Play (00:00):
Raising Boys Who Learn by Doing Is your son constantly in motion, building forts
or turning everything into a game? In this episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide,
we explore how purposeful play fuels brain development, supports emotional growth,
(00:20):
and helps boys learn by doing, mess, and awe.Kathy Baer, a veteran kindergarten teacher
with decades of classroom experience, joins us to break down the concept of purposeful
play and explain why it's not just fun, it's a vital part of how young children,
especially boys, grow, learn, and thrive.Kathy played a key role in introducing a full-day,
(00:44):
play-based kindergarten curriculum to her school district in Pennsylvania, a model that has since
been emulated by other schools. Over the years, she's served on numerous educational committees,
opened her classroom to neighboring district leaders, provided professional development
for fellow educators, and mentored the next generation of teachers. Kathy is also the mother
(01:07):
of three boys. Welcome to the MOB, Kathy.I survived. So thank you for having me,
Suzy and Cheryl. I'm so excited to be here. Ben Franklin has a saying that says,
“Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life.” And I found that in teaching and
(01:30):
in motherhood. And little did I know how teaching really helped me become a better parent of boys.
Working with boys in my classroom really helped me be a better parent. But also
once I became a parent, it helped me become a better teacher. So thank you again for
having me. Looking forward to sharing all the things we do about play, the power of play.
(01:52):
Yeah, I'm excited about this topic because I am still sort of
a 10-year-old at heart and still love to play.So Kathy, what is purposeful play and how is it
different from like free play or traditional structured learning or just fooling around?
Well, play is a child's job. Just like teaching was mine. Cheryl, you were in communications and
(02:17):
you're an author. Everybody has a job, but a child's job is to play. And it's through play
they learn best about the world around them. There is something called free play. Free play is, you
know, you can think, oh, they go out and they play freely. It's child-initiated, it's child-directed,
and there are no learning goals. Purposeful play is adult-initiated, child-directed,
(02:45):
and there are learning goals, okay?Ben Franklin had another saying that I love. “Tell
me and I will forget, show me and I may remember, but involve me and I'll understand.” Purposeful
play involves students in the learning. It is so important that they are engaged in learning. It
(03:07):
is data proven that when kids are engaged and happy and joyful, they actually learn better.
So 36 years ago when I started teaching kindergarten, we were a half-day program and
we did some academics and we did some play. There was a kitchen set, blocks, you know, Legos, and
the kids would go off and we would call that free play. And then as years went on, state standards
(03:30):
were added on and oh my goodness, in just a half-day there was no more time to play. And, you
know, play sets were disappearing from classrooms and Legos were disappearing as if childhood became
obsolete. And it was very stressful for kids. We know kids need to play, they learn best,
especially boys. They need that movement to sit there and listen to the state standards
and being taught through scripted programs. Teachers were stressed, kids were stressed.
(03:54):
So we wanted to go to full-day program, which was great, but teachers got together and we
said we don't want the new kindergarten to be like a first grade. We want to come back
and have more play. We need play time. So we consulted with Kathy Hersh-Pasek,
who's a psychology professor at Temple University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She's also an
author of many wonderful books. One of them, maybe you have heard of, Einstein Never Used
(04:19):
Flashcards. And if you really think about that title, yeah, you could sit there and do flashcards
and they know a lot, but he didn't do it. He used his curiosity. He played to create things.
So we wanted to do full-day, so we consulted her and she taught us about the power of play
and how play can be, you know, embedded in everything we do in reading activities
(04:42):
and math activities and in science and social studies. So after a whole year of developing it,
we then implemented it and it was wonderful.And the power that play has, she says,
and she talks about it often, that play helps with the four Cs that will help you
be successful in corporate life in real world. Communication, collaboration, critical thinking,
(05:08):
and creativity. That's what corporations are looking for, especially even after COVID.
Everybody, there was no communication. There was no collaboration. There was no play. And
they now know, and we all know, I've seen it. Play is powerful and it actually even bridges
those gaps that they were missing for so long.Give us an example of how you changed those things
(05:30):
in your classroom from the standpoint of making it purposeful play. What's
an example of purposeful play versus free play?So in the classroom, if we're embedding it into
the state standards, instead of just saying, okay, do a letter dictation, build me the letter A,
and they write it down, they could do it in sand. They can build it with Legos. So we called it
the finger gym activities. In the reading center, there's choice. There's always choices too. That's
(05:53):
part of the play, that they have choices because it gives them, like I said, that power, that
agency to pick and control what they're learning and what they know they're good at to get better.
So they can choose, like in the reading center, they can maybe read a book or they can use puppets
to help retell the story. They didn't know how to write it yet, but they can use puppets to retell
it because you can't actually write yet until you have the spoken language down pat. So you
(06:17):
kind of embed more playful things. And it's not like we didn't, I didn't do those things before,
but it became more prevalent that we know, wow, look at my test scores. Because the more they
were talking, instead of me talking, their writing scores went up because they knew how
to tell a story, which then helped them write a story. So all the scores started going up.
And then in social studies and science, we would teach content through play also. So that would be
(06:41):
our end of the day. And with that, we would use dramatic play and STEM activities and
art activities and movement activities and music.So if we were learning, say in October about fire
safety, I would read books during the reading time and find out their prior knowledge. And some kids,
believe it or not, never knew what 9-1-1 was, never been to a fire station and thank
(07:04):
God never had a fire at their house. But how can we ask them to write about something that
they don't know anything about? So play, playing it in the dramatic area and role
playing it, help them understand what does a firefighter really do? What is their job?
So I said, how can we learn more about a firefighter? So we created our room,
made our room into a fire station. So the dramatic play area, where there was a kitchen
(07:28):
set, we had a mom, a dad, a brother and a sister, little roll necklaces that we would use. And they
could be a mom or dad. So maybe they were burning the dinner or something. We had a little pet dog
stuffed animal, and you know, cat. And then we had a 9-1-1 operator. We had a little keyboard
that they have to type on and headsets. And then we had the firefighters. And then we painted a
(07:49):
box to be the fire truck or the little Fred Flintstone firebox that they could walk in
too after they painted it. The pool noodles were the fire, you know, the hose. And they,
you know, made up scenarios and they acted on them. So they had to decide as a group who was
what and what the emergency was going to be.So Kathy, you must have, I gave you a copy
(08:12):
of my book, Mothers of Boys Survival Guide. You must have really laughed when you read the story
of how my kindergartner, Ernest, called the police when my husband and I were in the hot
tub next door and he couldn't find us. Thank you. Thank you very much for purposeful play
(08:34):
teaching him to call 9-1-1. Thank you.Yeah. They learn and they're listening
and I guess that play mimics real life. That's what it is. Play mimics real life.
Yeah.Kathy, I think that your kids,
your students probably didn't even want to go home. They were having so much fun.
Oh, they did. They did.That sounds amazing.
(08:55):
It was wonderful. So, and then we had like a STEM activity where they were building fire out
of red solo cups and it's amazing how, how they think their brains, some of them were wide fires,
some of them were high fires, but that's how they learned vocabulary, math vocabulary, top, middle,
bottom, you know, heavy, light. So purposeful play is so important that you just embed it.
And then we had again, an art activity where they had to make paint and they learned about mixing
(09:18):
colors and then they had puppets and then they had to write a story about what they do. They had to
practice their phone number so they could call 9-1-1. So learning is embedded in play and the
role playing is just, is really fascinating.Kinesthetic Learning and Age Range
for Purposeful PlaySo we recently released a
podcast on kinesthetic learning (Raising Boys with Brains in Mind: A Guide to Their Development) and
how movement fuels the brain development and is purposeful play a similar tool and concept? And
(09:46):
I'm also curious about the age. Like, is there, is this a younger kid thing or does it go all
through to adulthood and what kind of tips you might have for managing a house full of, as you
had three boys, I'm sure you had those days when you were just packed with a house full of kids.
(10:08):
Yeah. Kinesthetic learning, okay, is a learning style. We all have different
learning styles. Kids learn differently. Some kids are auditory learners, some are visual learners,
but that kinesthetic, yeah, everybody needs to get up and move. Everybody needs movement,
but some kids definitely, and boys, a lot of boys too, especially in kindergarten
and even in adulthood, they need to move.And I would incorporate that kinesthetic
(10:32):
into my classroom. Instead of, like I said, writing on a piece of paper, the letter C or B,
we could do sky writing and they need that movement and that movement and that repeating
of it too will help your brain remember. So that's how kids can learn and remember.
Instead of me telling them how to plant a seed and what a seed needs to grow, they may listen to it,
(10:53):
but they totally forget it and can't put the sequence back in order. So if I gave them
a shovel and a bucket and said, okay, let's go do it. And then that digging in that dirt
and planting the seed and pouring that water, that's all that kinesthetic hands-on learning.
And I did that, yes, at my house too. I mean, we can have a sand pile out back. I had the kids
write their name in the sand and that's all that sensory too, that kinesthetic movement. Fill up
(11:17):
your dump truck, how many buckets of sand to fill your dump truck. I'm giving it a purpose using
kinesthetic activities and learning.We are in the midst of summer. So,
kids are home now. Can you suggest some certain activities that would be purposeful play for
(11:39):
them? And is there anything at home as far as materials or things that would be helpful to
have to help with this purposeful play?Well, as I said earlier, being a teacher
really helped me be a better boy mom and being a boy mom helped me be a better teacher. So I
really do. I have the number one toy that every mom needs, every household and every classroom
(12:03):
needs. You ready?Bring it on.
Yeah.It's a box.
A box. A big box or a little box?Any size box.
I recently saw a refrigerator box on the street and I'm thinking, what a lost opportunity. I mean,
that is like days of fun right there.Absolutely. So speaking of a refrigerator box,
(12:26):
that's what I was going to share, a story with my boys too. We got a new refrigerator and of course,
you know, it's longer and wider. It's on the ground. What happened to them? All three of
them were jumping in rowing the boat and so forth and the power of play with the box. Okay?
So I helped build a little blueprint for them and said, you know, what are you going to do with
this? What do you want to do? And they're like, can we paint it? I said, okay, so let's get some
(12:47):
paint. And they said, can we be pirates instead of sailors? I said, sure. And they're like,
what, what I asked them to, again, like I can initiate it, but they're directing it. Okay?
Well, you would be a pirate. What, what do you need? Well, we need a bandana. Well,
I didn't have any bandanas, but I had headbands. So they had the headbands in. They said, Oh,
can we put beards on using marker? And I'm like, okay, no, no. But I said, I think I have
(13:08):
something in my drawer and it was mascara. So, and then a toilet paper thing for the telescope.
So I always kept a box too of little house supplies, napkins, paper towels, toilet paper
holders, paper towel holders. For the water, they went through my thing and I had birthday streamers
and they were blue. They were, that was the water.So, and then we planned activities they could do.
(13:30):
They wanted a piece of paper to make a treasure map. And then they all took turns hiding their
treasure and then everybody had to follow their map. And it was just great that I wasn’t following
them around. The kids made a map. Like my oldest one made a map. And my other two had
to follow that map to find the treasure. And then my youngest one made a map and then the
other ones had to go find it. So, and that's without using Google maps. And that's where
(13:51):
that creativity and that critical thinking comes in and, and how far is it? How many steps is it?
So definitely a box is, is, is a great thing.You're obviously a very super creative person,
super creative mom. So you, you have all these ideas, but as you're talking, what I'm realizing
is even if a mom doesn't think that way, if you just put those questions out to your children,
(14:15):
like, okay, let's do a pirate theme day today. What do you think we need? You don't, you don't,
the mom doesn't have to be the one coming up with the ideas. You can just, because they're going to
say, Oh, I have this or I have that. So as we're talking, I'm realizing, you know, there's so much
so many possibilities with all different ages.Its ownership.
(14:39):
I was thinking when you were saying bandana, you know, my boys would have been happy putting
underwear on their head. I mean, that was just like a regular thing, right?
Whatever you have, it works, you know, and that's the power to play and pretend. And, believe it or
not, that pretend does mimic real life that you are, but it's critical thinking skills. What are
you going to do? You know, it's, it's wonderful to see how they all interact. And especially with
(15:03):
different ages, you know, in, in my sons at home.So, Kathy, what age do you think is ideal for
purposeful play and how does it impact their brain development?
Well, I think play is good for any age. I mean, any adult too, would rather do something that's
play-based and engaging instead of sitting there and being lectured at. We do all learn better if
(15:24):
we're engaged and, showing, you know, happiness and it just promotes brain development there.
But there are stages that we want to go through.Everybody from infancy to, you know, adulthood,
we go through and we heard about unoccupied play. That's like a baby's just, you know,
flapping their arms and their legs. And then there's solitary play where, you know,
(15:45):
you give a baby a little pacifier or a duck, and we all know what happens to that. It goes in their
mouth and that's how they explore. That's their playing. They're exploring their environment. And
then there's onlooker play that you see sometimes kids are just kind of sitting out. They're not
playing and you can even say, do you want to play? And they'll say no, but they're just watching. And
that's what animals did too. They watch their adults and see how to do, that's onlooker play.
(16:09):
And then there's the parallel play stage where, you know, both of them could be playing blocks,
but there's no communication. They'd be watching each other and eyeing each other up thinking,
and then seeing maybe one do one and they might mimic it, but there's no communication going on.
Then there's associative play where that's when the language starts to come, that they'll be
playing parallel blocks and they'll start to say, oh, well, can I have that block or how did you do
(16:32):
that? But then the final stage would be that social and cooperative play. And that's where
I said corporations want you to be, where you can collaborate, you can communicate, you know,
you can think critically and be creative.And we would hope, you know, by the end of
kindergarten, we were hoping we would have kids at that stage. We even had a little
checklist to see if they were there yet. That would be the goal. But if they're not, okay,
(16:56):
play builds and fills those gaps as learning gaps. And we hope if it didn't happen in kindergarten,
we were trying to promote more playful learning in first grade. And even in second grade,
we know that is, it's the power of play, it really bridges the gaps. And the one thing I love too,
the best about play, and it's good for everybody, it evens out the playing field.
(17:16):
So I had kids who were readers, I have kids who never even, you know, didn't know any of their
letters. But when they come together, they bring what they know, and they're comfortable in that
environment, and then they learn from each other. So literally, any age is good for play. But boys
definitely, I said, I saw so much growth when I started doing play based learning. And then that
dramatic play too, when the kids took on those roles, just a lot of growth play is very powerful.
(17:43):
It sounds like the moms need to be involved, or the parent needs to be involved. Is there
any kind of direction you can give if it's just a really busy time and the mom doesn't,
or dad, they don't have time to orchestrate it?Absolutely. You know, parenting is hard work. I
said, you love it, but it is a lot of work. But I definitely believe kids need downtime too. They
(18:06):
need quiet time. They don't need everything, doesn't need to be scheduled. But they also
need some play that more structure that's, you know, facilitated or initiated by an adult, but
directed by them. And I think if we give them more opportunities, the more we got into it, even in my
classroom, the kids were able to plan better.So once we planned our fire station, you know,
in October, in November, we did a grocery store, they got into that habit. They knew that it took
(18:29):
one week, believe it or not, to plan everything and create all our materials. And then they had
two weeks of it to play the different things. So I think what a parent could do is make a little
blueprint and say, okay, what do you want to do next week for the summer? Let's do things about
ocean. What can we do? And you write it down. Okay, we could go to the Camden Aquarium. Okay,
(18:50):
how can we make an aquarium? We could use our pool or get a pool. We could go fishing. We
can make some games, you know, just kind of be creative and have them, you know, fill a box of
things that they think would support that play.But another important thing to do is just like
that planning and prep with the materials. I think what really helped me be a better parent
(19:11):
was teaching first. It really did because I had to establish rules. Okay, there's definitely rules
and I had them posted on the wall. So of course, when I came home and I had boys and, you know,
again, two, three different age groups, which makes it harder, I posted our rules. And I said,
if you're going to go out and play and that way I don't have to constantly put out fires,
(19:33):
I called if there was a problem, it could be a candle fire or there's a house fire.
So a candle fire would mean, you know, maybe somebody was upset that you didn't get to go
first. So a candle fire would means you have to do it on your own. It's something you can
do on your own. So take a deep breath, blow out that candle. If it didn't work, maybe say, hey,
(19:54):
we could do rock, paper, scissors, shoot. So I taught them strategies to if there's a problem
that arose, these are things you should be able to work out. But of course, like hitting would
be a house fire and I'd come running and put the fire out and they learned that if I came,
firefighter mom or firefighter bear came to put the fire out, play was over for that group.
(20:14):
And they would have quiet time. So they learned, I could hear my boys even out in the yard saying,
No, no, don't tell mom yet. We can do it. We'll figure this out. Let's make it a candle fire,
so I could hear those strategies working. So I didn't have to, you know, go put out the fires.
But just like you, Suzy, I had an Exuberance. And let me tell you, he screamed fire more often
than any of the other ones. And I said, is that called middle child syndrome too? But I think
(20:40):
if you establish rules ahead of time, and if you plan out your play ahead of time, and make them
create their play and then different things you can do each day, maybe there's an art activity
that they can go along with their fish theme or their ocean theme, or we can do a sports theme.
Or one year I did a camp whole lot of fun or I guess she did like 10 years in a row with my boys
(21:01):
camp whole lot of fun where they had to invite a friend over for camping in the backyard and
they had to make a sign and then they had to make maps and an activity and they had to write their
own ghost story to say at night like they were involved in it and that they kept them so busy and
it was fun. And that's what it is. It's playful. It's learning. And it's fun. Fun for me too,
because I said, I could put my feet back in the classroom a couple of times and do this going,
(21:24):
that's part of my day. Like they were and I could hear them. Yeah.
Watching them learn. Well during your 36 years as a kindergarten teacher, was there one powerful
moment that you witnessed in your classroom that kind of showed the magic of play-based learning?
Wow, let me tell you. There were many moments, I tell you. Yeah. But since
(21:48):
we're talking about purposeful play, there is definitely one because in the last 10 years,
we were doing that purposeful play program in our district. Kindergarten is like the first year for
parents too entering into the school district. So I'm not just breaking a child in, I'm breaking
in the parent. And I had some of those helicopter parents and submarine parents. I definitely liked
(22:09):
better at times, but I had a little boy coming in and I had an IEP meeting. He was autistic and
very non-verbal, but they really wanted him to be included. But they were very worried. And so
I said, okay, we're going to do this. Okay. Then you're going to have to trust me. So I said, give
me six weeks. I said, I don't want an email every day saying, oh my gosh, how's he doing? You know,
(22:30):
I said, if something's going on, I will definitely email you, but just give me six weeks because it
takes six weeks to really acclimate to a new learning environment. So give me six weeks.
Well, he wasn't talking in circle time. He really wasn't talking to anybody at lunch. So, you know,
I make those assignments and things to have him, you know, be supported and so forth. The
speech teacher was pulling him out and he's not talking, but he's going out with another
(22:52):
person from a different, you know, classroom and doesn't know who they are. So he's not talking.
But when we started doing our play-based program and that started after six weeks of it,
almost in October again, firefighter station, the kids get to pick where they go. And he went over,
I remember the first time ran over to the fire dramatic play center, threw on the firefighter
(23:14):
necklace, cause we had little roll necklaces and really hadn't said anything. If I had to,
I really had to ask him a question to see if he knew something. But when he threw that necklace
on, he was unbelievable. His voice changed. He became in charge. He was talking to the other
firefighter like this. We need to clean the truck. We need to make sure it's ready. So he was talking
full sentences, which they were saying in his goal. One of his goals was to be able to complete
(23:37):
a sentence and use the right pronouns. And I'm thinking he's talking full sentences and he's
saying we need to do this. And then he's like, we have to wait for the 911 call. Well, the 911 call
came in and he's answering and he's talking to the 911 operator and it was a cat needed rescuing. So
they get in their little Flintstone fire truck. He and the other firefighter and they had their
(24:00):
little hoses and they get up to the little thing. They climbed the little ladder that I had a step
ladder and they had painted a tree and then we had a little shelf and that's where they had put the
cat. That was the scenario they had created. The people that called 911. Well, he climbed up that
ladder and the family, you know, the mom and the dad roll necklace. People were all clapping. Yay.
He takes the cat down. He's petting the cat and in his nicest voice, I gotcha. You're okay. I'm going
(24:29):
to take you home kitty. And he was talking so nicely, role playing power of play. So I was like,
wow. And thank goodness I actually was, I do film some of my play things. I would share it
on a platform called seesaw. And when that parent saw that, I mean, tears. I mean, I was crying. I
had the speech teacher come down.I feel like I'm going to cry.
(24:51):
That's a wonderful story.The speech teacher should come
down and where they're comfortable, that's where they learn best. And when we talked about those
four C's, collaboration, you know, communication, creativity, critical thinking in my classroom,
because of that one student too, I thought about it built a sense of community,
another C, and it created confidence and provided comfort. And it's going to help
(25:17):
create those contributing citizens that can compete in this new crazy world with AI too.
And then the rest of the year, oh my goodness, he was amazing. So I just think the power of play and
also the gift of time. And that's what we need to do and give some boys the gift of time to really
find where they go and feel good about themselves. So yeah, he was definitely one that I will always
(25:43):
remember and think, wow, the power of play.I love, love, love that story. That is just
fabulous.Mm hmm.
So, so Kathy, when my kids were really little, play dough was a big thing. That was the way I
cooked dinner. So I would have them help me make play dough. And then I'd strap Exuberance into his
(26:10):
chair so that he couldn't leave. And I would just give him the play dough to do whatever. And then
Ernest, the older son, I had all these little cookie cutters and maybe a roller and he would
keep busy too until I could cook dinner. So do you have other suggestions like that for moms? Is
(26:35):
there something else you could do with play dough?Well, play dough is great. It's definitely a
sensory seeking things. And I guess that pressing down on the play dough and pushing out and using
letters, they could press out the letters and so forth. That's like proprioceptive, that pressing,
that pressure. And it helps your brain remember things too. And it's calming and it's soothing,
just like chewing gum and rocking in a chair. There's vestibular that calms your body. So yeah,
(26:59):
when they're cooking dinner, yeah, play dough is great. Cutting straws. People
are always afraid to give kids scissors. Well, there's blunt scissors, but if you teach them
how to handle scissors correctly, but there's like the cardboard straws and cutting them,
it's harder and they're working at it and it's strengthening. And then they can string the
little pieces of the straw together and make a necklace or a bracelet and so forth. But that
(27:23):
sensory movement and that kinesthetic learning too is calming so that you can go cook dinner.
Right. Love it. Thank you.I think people are going to be reaching
out and saying, all right, we need more. Keep giving us all these ideas. Summer's pretty long.
Camp whole lot of fun. My husband used to call it, camp whole lot of work. But you can do it.
(27:50):
So Kathy, as we wrap up, we ask each of our guests if they have a mantra or a
guiding phrase or something that you would say to yourself or that a mom might say to
herself as she's trying to get herself into the playful play mode, what would yours be?
So I used to say to my boys-, my boys actually went to my elementary school
(28:12):
where I taught and they often said to me, I was nicer to everybody else's kids, you know,
better to them than to my own kids. I'm like, “well, I get paid. So they
listen better.” But I also told them, “The choices you make, tell people who you are.,
Who are you going to be today?”. And every day I said that to them. And I think the way they
(28:35):
played together at home and worked together as a team too, helped them survive better in the world.
So I would say, you know, choices you make, tell people who you are. I relied on that.
I thought that helped me too to calm them and help them transition too into the real world.
That's awesome.Yeah, love it.
(28:56):
Yeah, it's very empowering for your children and very clear. Well, your kids were lucky. You were
a wonderful mother and those kindergarten kids were lucky to have you as a teacher.
For sure. Thank you for all the tips for moms for the summer and for being an incredible member of
(29:17):
the mob. Mothers of boys.Yeah.
Woohoo to boys.Thanks so much, Kathy. This
was such a fun podcast and it was great talking with you. It was really so much insight and wisdom
that you've offered our mob community.Well like you said too, moms work from
sunup to sun down.Spelled S-O-N, right?
(29:42):
Your book is fabulous. I wish I had read that too earlier on. So thank you for sharing your story.
I think stories are so important to share. We do support each other. It is important.
Yeah, I appreciate it. I appreciate your kind words. Thank you.
And thank you all for joining us today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram,
(30:04):
YouTube and your favorite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week.
Raising Boys Who Learn by Doing Is your son constantly in motion, building forts
or turning everything into a game? In this episode of the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide,
we explore how purposeful play fuels brain development, supports emotional growth,
(00:20):
and helps boys learn by doing, mess, and awe.Kathy Baer, a veteran kindergarten teacher
with decades of classroom experience, joins us to break down the concept of purposeful
play and explain why it's not just fun, it's a vital part of how young children,
especially boys, grow, learn, and thrive.Kathy played a key role in introducing a full-day,
(00:44):
play-based kindergarten curriculum to her school district in Pennsylvania, a model that has since
been emulated by other schools. Over the years, she's served on numerous educational committees,
opened her classroom to neighboring district leaders, provided professional development
for fellow educators, and mentored the next generation of teachers. Kathy is also the mother
(01:07):
of three boys. Welcome to the MOB, Kathy.I survived. So thank you for having me,
Suzy and Cheryl. I'm so excited to be here. Ben Franklin has a saying that says,
“Find a job you love and you'll never work a day in your life.” And I found that in teaching and
(01:30):
in motherhood. And little did I know how teaching really helped me become a better parent of boys.
Working with boys in my classroom really helped me be a better parent. But also
once I became a parent, it helped me become a better teacher. So thank you again for
having me. Looking forward to sharing all the things we do about play, the power of play.
(01:52):
Yeah, I'm excited about this topic because I am still sort of
a 10-year-old at heart and still love to play.So Kathy, what is purposeful play and how is it
different from like free play or traditional structured learning or just fooling around?
Well, play is a child's job. Just like teaching was mine. Cheryl, you were in communications and
(02:17):
you're an author. Everybody has a job, but a child's job is to play. And it's through play
they learn best about the world around them. There is something called free play. Free play is, you
know, you can think, oh, they go out and they play freely. It's child-initiated, it's child-directed,
and there are no learning goals. Purposeful play is adult-initiated, child-directed,
(02:45):
and there are learning goals, okay?Ben Franklin had another saying that I love. “Tell
me and I will forget, show me and I may remember, but involve me and I'll understand.” Purposeful
play involves students in the learning. It is so important that they are engaged in learning. It
(03:07):
is data proven that when kids are engaged and happy and joyful, they actually learn better.
So 36 years ago when I started teaching kindergarten, we were a half-day program and
we did some academics and we did some play. There was a kitchen set, blocks, you know, Legos, and
the kids would go off and we would call that free play. And then as years went on, state standards
(03:30):
were added on and oh my goodness, in just a half-day there was no more time to play. And, you
know, play sets were disappearing from classrooms and Legos were disappearing as if childhood became
obsolete. And it was very stressful for kids. We know kids need to play, they learn best,
especially boys. They need that movement to sit there and listen to the state standards
and being taught through scripted programs. Teachers were stressed, kids were stressed.
(03:54):
So we wanted to go to full-day program, which was great, but teachers got together and we
said we don't want the new kindergarten to be like a first grade. We want to come back
and have more play. We need play time. So we consulted with Kathy Hersh-Pasek,
who's a psychology professor at Temple University in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. She's also an
author of many wonderful books. One of them, maybe you have heard of, Einstein Never Used
(04:19):
Flashcards. And if you really think about that title, yeah, you could sit there and do flashcards
and they know a lot, but he didn't do it. He used his curiosity. He played to create things.
So we wanted to do full-day, so we consulted her and she taught us about the power of play
and how play can be, you know, embedded in everything we do in reading activities
(04:42):
and math activities and in science and social studies. So after a whole year of developing it,
we then implemented it and it was wonderful.And the power that play has, she says,
and she talks about it often, that play helps with the four Cs that will help you
be successful in corporate life in real world. Communication, collaboration, critical thinking,
(05:08):
and creativity. That's what corporations are looking for, especially even after COVID.
Everybody, there was no communication. There was no collaboration. There was no play. And
they now know, and we all know, I've seen it. Play is powerful and it actually even bridges
those gaps that they were missing for so long.Give us an example of how you changed those things
(05:30):
in your classroom from the standpoint of making it purposeful play. What's
an example of purposeful play versus free play?So in the classroom, if we're embedding it into
the state standards, instead of just saying, okay, do a letter dictation, build me the letter A,
and they write it down, they could do it in sand. They can build it with Legos. So we called it
the finger gym activities. In the reading center, there's choice. There's always choices too. That's
(05:53):
part of the play, that they have choices because it gives them, like I said, that power, that
agency to pick and control what they're learning and what they know they're good at to get better.
So they can choose, like in the reading center, they can maybe read a book or they can use puppets
to help retell the story. They didn't know how to write it yet, but they can use puppets to retell
it because you can't actually write yet until you have the spoken language down pat. So you
(06:17):
kind of embed more playful things. And it's not like we didn't, I didn't do those things before,
but it became more prevalent that we know, wow, look at my test scores. Because the more they
were talking, instead of me talking, their writing scores went up because they knew how
to tell a story, which then helped them write a story. So all the scores started going up.
And then in social studies and science, we would teach content through play also. So that would be
(06:41):
our end of the day. And with that, we would use dramatic play and STEM activities and
art activities and movement activities and music.So if we were learning, say in October about fire
safety, I would read books during the reading time and find out their prior knowledge. And some kids,
believe it or not, never knew what 9-1-1 was, never been to a fire station and thank
(07:04):
God never had a fire at their house. But how can we ask them to write about something that
they don't know anything about? So play, playing it in the dramatic area and role
playing it, help them understand what does a firefighter really do? What is their job?
So I said, how can we learn more about a firefighter? So we created our room,
made our room into a fire station. So the dramatic play area, where there was a kitchen
(07:28):
set, we had a mom, a dad, a brother and a sister, little roll necklaces that we would use. And they
could be a mom or dad. So maybe they were burning the dinner or something. We had a little pet dog
stuffed animal, and you know, cat. And then we had a 9-1-1 operator. We had a little keyboard
that they have to type on and headsets. And then we had the firefighters. And then we painted a
(07:49):
box to be the fire truck or the little Fred Flintstone firebox that they could walk in
too after they painted it. The pool noodles were the fire, you know, the hose. And they,
you know, made up scenarios and they acted on them. So they had to decide as a group who was
what and what the emergency was going to be.So Kathy, you must have, I gave you a copy
(08:12):
of my book, Mothers of Boys Survival Guide. You must have really laughed when you read the story
of how my kindergartner, Ernest, called the police when my husband and I were in the hot
tub next door and he couldn't find us. Thank you. Thank you very much for purposeful play
(08:34):
teaching him to call 9-1-1. Thank you.Yeah. They learn and they're listening
and I guess that play mimics real life. That's what it is. Play mimics real life.
Yeah.Kathy, I think that your kids,
your students probably didn't even want to go home. They were having so much fun.
Oh, they did. They did.That sounds amazing.
(08:55):
It was wonderful. So, and then we had like a STEM activity where they were building fire out
of red solo cups and it's amazing how, how they think their brains, some of them were wide fires,
some of them were high fires, but that's how they learned vocabulary, math vocabulary, top, middle,
bottom, you know, heavy, light. So purposeful play is so important that you just embed it.
And then we had again, an art activity where they had to make paint and they learned about mixing
(09:18):
colors and then they had puppets and then they had to write a story about what they do. They had to
practice their phone number so they could call 9-1-1. So learning is embedded in play and the
role playing is just, is really fascinating.Kinesthetic Learning and Age Range
for Purposeful PlaySo we recently released a
podcast on kinesthetic learning (Raising Boys with Brains in Mind: A Guide to Their Development) and
how movement fuels the brain development and is purposeful play a similar tool and concept? And
(09:46):
I'm also curious about the age. Like, is there, is this a younger kid thing or does it go all
through to adulthood and what kind of tips you might have for managing a house full of, as you
had three boys, I'm sure you had those days when you were just packed with a house full of kids.
(10:08):
Yeah. Kinesthetic learning, okay, is a learning style. We all have different
learning styles. Kids learn differently. Some kids are auditory learners, some are visual learners,
but that kinesthetic, yeah, everybody needs to get up and move. Everybody needs movement,
but some kids definitely, and boys, a lot of boys too, especially in kindergarten
and even in adulthood, they need to move.And I would incorporate that kinesthetic
(10:32):
into my classroom. Instead of, like I said, writing on a piece of paper, the letter C or B,
we could do sky writing and they need that movement and that movement and that repeating
of it too will help your brain remember. So that's how kids can learn and remember.
Instead of me telling them how to plant a seed and what a seed needs to grow, they may listen to it,
(10:53):
but they totally forget it and can't put the sequence back in order. So if I gave them
a shovel and a bucket and said, okay, let's go do it. And then that digging in that dirt
and planting the seed and pouring that water, that's all that kinesthetic hands-on learning.
And I did that, yes, at my house too. I mean, we can have a sand pile out back. I had the kids
write their name in the sand and that's all that sensory too, that kinesthetic movement. Fill up
(11:17):
your dump truck, how many buckets of sand to fill your dump truck. I'm giving it a purpose using
kinesthetic activities and learning.We are in the midst of summer. So,
kids are home now. Can you suggest some certain activities that would be purposeful play for
(11:39):
them? And is there anything at home as far as materials or things that would be helpful to
have to help with this purposeful play?Well, as I said earlier, being a teacher
really helped me be a better boy mom and being a boy mom helped me be a better teacher. So I
really do. I have the number one toy that every mom needs, every household and every classroom
(12:03):
needs. You ready?Bring it on.
Yeah.It's a box.
A box. A big box or a little box?Any size box.
I recently saw a refrigerator box on the street and I'm thinking, what a lost opportunity. I mean,
that is like days of fun right there.Absolutely. So speaking of a refrigerator box,
(12:26):
that's what I was going to share, a story with my boys too. We got a new refrigerator and of course,
you know, it's longer and wider. It's on the ground. What happened to them? All three of
them were jumping in rowing the boat and so forth and the power of play with the box. Okay?
So I helped build a little blueprint for them and said, you know, what are you going to do with
this? What do you want to do? And they're like, can we paint it? I said, okay, so let's get some
(12:47):
paint. And they said, can we be pirates instead of sailors? I said, sure. And they're like,
what, what I asked them to, again, like I can initiate it, but they're directing it. Okay?
Well, you would be a pirate. What, what do you need? Well, we need a bandana. Well,
I didn't have any bandanas, but I had headbands. So they had the headbands in. They said, Oh,
can we put beards on using marker? And I'm like, okay, no, no. But I said, I think I have
(13:08):
something in my drawer and it was mascara. So, and then a toilet paper thing for the telescope.
So I always kept a box too of little house supplies, napkins, paper towels, toilet paper
holders, paper towel holders. For the water, they went through my thing and I had birthday streamers
and they were blue. They were, that was the water.So, and then we planned activities they could do.
(13:30):
They wanted a piece of paper to make a treasure map. And then they all took turns hiding their
treasure and then everybody had to follow their map. And it was just great that I wasn’t following
them around. The kids made a map. Like my oldest one made a map. And my other two had
to follow that map to find the treasure. And then my youngest one made a map and then the
other ones had to go find it. So, and that's without using Google maps. And that's where
(13:51):
that creativity and that critical thinking comes in and, and how far is it? How many steps is it?
So definitely a box is, is, is a great thing.You're obviously a very super creative person,
super creative mom. So you, you have all these ideas, but as you're talking, what I'm realizing
is even if a mom doesn't think that way, if you just put those questions out to your children,
(14:15):
like, okay, let's do a pirate theme day today. What do you think we need? You don't, you don't,
the mom doesn't have to be the one coming up with the ideas. You can just, because they're going to
say, Oh, I have this or I have that. So as we're talking, I'm realizing, you know, there's so much
so many possibilities with all different ages.Its ownership.
(14:39):
I was thinking when you were saying bandana, you know, my boys would have been happy putting
underwear on their head. I mean, that was just like a regular thing, right?
Whatever you have, it works, you know, and that's the power to play and pretend. And, believe it or
not, that pretend does mimic real life that you are, but it's critical thinking skills. What are
you going to do? You know, it's, it's wonderful to see how they all interact. And especially with
(15:03):
different ages, you know, in, in my sons at home.So, Kathy, what age do you think is ideal for
purposeful play and how does it impact their brain development?
Well, I think play is good for any age. I mean, any adult too, would rather do something that's
play-based and engaging instead of sitting there and being lectured at. We do all learn better if
(15:24):
we're engaged and, showing, you know, happiness and it just promotes brain development there.
But there are stages that we want to go through.Everybody from infancy to, you know, adulthood,
we go through and we heard about unoccupied play. That's like a baby's just, you know,
flapping their arms and their legs. And then there's solitary play where, you know,
(15:45):
you give a baby a little pacifier or a duck, and we all know what happens to that. It goes in their
mouth and that's how they explore. That's their playing. They're exploring their environment. And
then there's onlooker play that you see sometimes kids are just kind of sitting out. They're not
playing and you can even say, do you want to play? And they'll say no, but they're just watching. And
that's what animals did too. They watch their adults and see how to do, that's onlooker play.
(16:09):
And then there's the parallel play stage where, you know, both of them could be playing blocks,
but there's no communication. They'd be watching each other and eyeing each other up thinking,
and then seeing maybe one do one and they might mimic it, but there's no communication going on.
Then there's associative play where that's when the language starts to come, that they'll be
playing parallel blocks and they'll start to say, oh, well, can I have that block or how did you do
(16:32):
that? But then the final stage would be that social and cooperative play. And that's where
I said corporations want you to be, where you can collaborate, you can communicate, you know,
you can think critically and be creative.And we would hope, you know, by the end of
kindergarten, we were hoping we would have kids at that stage. We even had a little
checklist to see if they were there yet. That would be the goal. But if they're not, okay,
(16:56):
play builds and fills those gaps as learning gaps. And we hope if it didn't happen in kindergarten,
we were trying to promote more playful learning in first grade. And even in second grade,
we know that is, it's the power of play, it really bridges the gaps. And the one thing I love too,
the best about play, and it's good for everybody, it evens out the playing field.
(17:16):
So I had kids who were readers, I have kids who never even, you know, didn't know any of their
letters. But when they come together, they bring what they know, and they're comfortable in that
environment, and then they learn from each other. So literally, any age is good for play. But boys
definitely, I said, I saw so much growth when I started doing play based learning. And then that
dramatic play too, when the kids took on those roles, just a lot of growth play is very powerful.
(17:43):
It sounds like the moms need to be involved, or the parent needs to be involved. Is there
any kind of direction you can give if it's just a really busy time and the mom doesn't,
or dad, they don't have time to orchestrate it?Absolutely. You know, parenting is hard work. I
said, you love it, but it is a lot of work. But I definitely believe kids need downtime too. They
(18:06):
need quiet time. They don't need everything, doesn't need to be scheduled. But they also
need some play that more structure that's, you know, facilitated or initiated by an adult, but
directed by them. And I think if we give them more opportunities, the more we got into it, even in my
classroom, the kids were able to plan better.So once we planned our fire station, you know,
in October, in November, we did a grocery store, they got into that habit. They knew that it took
(18:29):
one week, believe it or not, to plan everything and create all our materials. And then they had
two weeks of it to play the different things. So I think what a parent could do is make a little
blueprint and say, okay, what do you want to do next week for the summer? Let's do things about
ocean. What can we do? And you write it down. Okay, we could go to the Camden Aquarium. Okay,
(18:50):
how can we make an aquarium? We could use our pool or get a pool. We could go fishing. We
can make some games, you know, just kind of be creative and have them, you know, fill a box of
things that they think would support that play.But another important thing to do is just like
that planning and prep with the materials. I think what really helped me be a better parent
(19:11):
was teaching first. It really did because I had to establish rules. Okay, there's definitely rules
and I had them posted on the wall. So of course, when I came home and I had boys and, you know,
again, two, three different age groups, which makes it harder, I posted our rules. And I said,
if you're going to go out and play and that way I don't have to constantly put out fires,
(19:33):
I called if there was a problem, it could be a candle fire or there's a house fire.
So a candle fire would mean, you know, maybe somebody was upset that you didn't get to go
first. So a candle fire would means you have to do it on your own. It's something you can
do on your own. So take a deep breath, blow out that candle. If it didn't work, maybe say, hey,
(19:54):
we could do rock, paper, scissors, shoot. So I taught them strategies to if there's a problem
that arose, these are things you should be able to work out. But of course, like hitting would
be a house fire and I'd come running and put the fire out and they learned that if I came,
firefighter mom or firefighter bear came to put the fire out, play was over for that group.
(20:14):
And they would have quiet time. So they learned, I could hear my boys even out in the yard saying,
No, no, don't tell mom yet. We can do it. We'll figure this out. Let's make it a candle fire,
so I could hear those strategies working. So I didn't have to, you know, go put out the fires.
But just like you, Suzy, I had an Exuberance. And let me tell you, he screamed fire more often
than any of the other ones. And I said, is that called middle child syndrome too? But I think
(20:40):
if you establish rules ahead of time, and if you plan out your play ahead of time, and make them
create their play and then different things you can do each day, maybe there's an art activity
that they can go along with their fish theme or their ocean theme, or we can do a sports theme.
Or one year I did a camp whole lot of fun or I guess she did like 10 years in a row with my boys
(21:01):
camp whole lot of fun where they had to invite a friend over for camping in the backyard and
they had to make a sign and then they had to make maps and an activity and they had to write their
own ghost story to say at night like they were involved in it and that they kept them so busy and
it was fun. And that's what it is. It's playful. It's learning. And it's fun. Fun for me too,
because I said, I could put my feet back in the classroom a couple of times and do this going,
(21:24):
that's part of my day. Like they were and I could hear them. Yeah.
Watching them learn. Well during your 36 years as a kindergarten teacher, was there one powerful
moment that you witnessed in your classroom that kind of showed the magic of play-based learning?
Wow, let me tell you. There were many moments, I tell you. Yeah. But since
(21:48):
we're talking about purposeful play, there is definitely one because in the last 10 years,
we were doing that purposeful play program in our district. Kindergarten is like the first year for
parents too entering into the school district. So I'm not just breaking a child in, I'm breaking
in the parent. And I had some of those helicopter parents and submarine parents. I definitely liked
(22:09):
better at times, but I had a little boy coming in and I had an IEP meeting. He was autistic and
very non-verbal, but they really wanted him to be included. But they were very worried. And so
I said, okay, we're going to do this. Okay. Then you're going to have to trust me. So I said, give
me six weeks. I said, I don't want an email every day saying, oh my gosh, how's he doing? You know,
(22:30):
I said, if something's going on, I will definitely email you, but just give me six weeks because it
takes six weeks to really acclimate to a new learning environment. So give me six weeks.
Well, he wasn't talking in circle time. He really wasn't talking to anybody at lunch. So, you know,
I make those assignments and things to have him, you know, be supported and so forth. The
speech teacher was pulling him out and he's not talking, but he's going out with another
(22:52):
person from a different, you know, classroom and doesn't know who they are. So he's not talking.
But when we started doing our play-based program and that started after six weeks of it,
almost in October again, firefighter station, the kids get to pick where they go. And he went over,
I remember the first time ran over to the fire dramatic play center, threw on the firefighter
(23:14):
necklace, cause we had little roll necklaces and really hadn't said anything. If I had to,
I really had to ask him a question to see if he knew something. But when he threw that necklace
on, he was unbelievable. His voice changed. He became in charge. He was talking to the other
firefighter like this. We need to clean the truck. We need to make sure it's ready. So he was talking
full sentences, which they were saying in his goal. One of his goals was to be able to complete
(23:37):
a sentence and use the right pronouns. And I'm thinking he's talking full sentences and he's
saying we need to do this. And then he's like, we have to wait for the 911 call. Well, the 911 call
came in and he's answering and he's talking to the 911 operator and it was a cat needed rescuing. So
they get in their little Flintstone fire truck. He and the other firefighter and they had their
(24:00):
little hoses and they get up to the little thing. They climbed the little ladder that I had a step
ladder and they had painted a tree and then we had a little shelf and that's where they had put the
cat. That was the scenario they had created. The people that called 911. Well, he climbed up that
ladder and the family, you know, the mom and the dad roll necklace. People were all clapping. Yay.
He takes the cat down. He's petting the cat and in his nicest voice, I gotcha. You're okay. I'm going
(24:29):
to take you home kitty. And he was talking so nicely, role playing power of play. So I was like,
wow. And thank goodness I actually was, I do film some of my play things. I would share it
on a platform called seesaw. And when that parent saw that, I mean, tears. I mean, I was crying. I
had the speech teacher come down.I feel like I'm going to cry.
(24:51):
That's a wonderful story.The speech teacher should come
down and where they're comfortable, that's where they learn best. And when we talked about those
four C's, collaboration, you know, communication, creativity, critical thinking in my classroom,
because of that one student too, I thought about it built a sense of community,
another C, and it created confidence and provided comfort. And it's going to help
(25:17):
create those contributing citizens that can compete in this new crazy world with AI too.
And then the rest of the year, oh my goodness, he was amazing. So I just think the power of play and
also the gift of time. And that's what we need to do and give some boys the gift of time to really
find where they go and feel good about themselves. So yeah, he was definitely one that I will always
(25:43):
remember and think, wow, the power of play.I love, love, love that story. That is just
fabulous.Mm hmm.
So, so Kathy, when my kids were really little, play dough was a big thing. That was the way I
cooked dinner. So I would have them help me make play dough. And then I'd strap Exuberance into his
(26:10):
chair so that he couldn't leave. And I would just give him the play dough to do whatever. And then
Ernest, the older son, I had all these little cookie cutters and maybe a roller and he would
keep busy too until I could cook dinner. So do you have other suggestions like that for moms? Is
(26:35):
there something else you could do with play dough?Well, play dough is great. It's definitely a
sensory seeking things. And I guess that pressing down on the play dough and pushing out and using
letters, they could press out the letters and so forth. That's like proprioceptive, that pressing,
that pressure. And it helps your brain remember things too. And it's calming and it's soothing,
just like chewing gum and rocking in a chair. There's vestibular that calms your body. So yeah,
(26:59):
when they're cooking dinner, yeah, play dough is great. Cutting straws. People
are always afraid to give kids scissors. Well, there's blunt scissors, but if you teach them
how to handle scissors correctly, but there's like the cardboard straws and cutting them,
it's harder and they're working at it and it's strengthening. And then they can string the
little pieces of the straw together and make a necklace or a bracelet and so forth. But that
(27:23):
sensory movement and that kinesthetic learning too is calming so that you can go cook dinner.
Right. Love it. Thank you.I think people are going to be reaching
out and saying, all right, we need more. Keep giving us all these ideas. Summer's pretty long.
Camp whole lot of fun. My husband used to call it, camp whole lot of work. But you can do it.
(27:50):
So Kathy, as we wrap up, we ask each of our guests if they have a mantra or a
guiding phrase or something that you would say to yourself or that a mom might say to
herself as she's trying to get herself into the playful play mode, what would yours be?
So I used to say to my boys-, my boys actually went to my elementary school
(28:12):
where I taught and they often said to me, I was nicer to everybody else's kids, you know,
better to them than to my own kids. I'm like, “well, I get paid. So they
listen better.” But I also told them, “The choices you make, tell people who you are.,
Who are you going to be today?”. And every day I said that to them. And I think the way they
(28:35):
played together at home and worked together as a team too, helped them survive better in the world.
So I would say, you know, choices you make, tell people who you are. I relied on that.
I thought that helped me too to calm them and help them transition too into the real world.
That's awesome.Yeah, love it.
(28:56):
Yeah, it's very empowering for your children and very clear. Well, your kids were lucky. You were
a wonderful mother and those kindergarten kids were lucky to have you as a teacher.
For sure. Thank you for all the tips for moms for the summer and for being an incredible member of
(29:17):
the mob. Mothers of boys.Yeah.
Woohoo to boys.Thanks so much, Kathy. This
was such a fun podcast and it was great talking with you. It was really so much insight and wisdom
that you've offered our mob community.Well like you said too, moms work from
sunup to sun down.Spelled S-O-N, right?
(29:42):
Your book is fabulous. I wish I had read that too earlier on. So thank you for sharing your story.
I think stories are so important to share. We do support each other. It is important.
Yeah, I appreciate it. I appreciate your kind words. Thank you.
And thank you all for joining us today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram,
(30:04):
YouTube and your favorite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.