October 29, 2025 • 31 mins
Do your pets understand when a companion is dying? How do they grieve? And what can you do to support them through loss and adjustment?
In this tender and insightful conversation, Karen Wylie and Gail Pope explore the often-overlooked reality of how animals experience grief—from anticipatory grief before death, through the dying process, and into the weeks and months that follow.
In this episode, you'll discover:
- How pets sense when a companion's time is coming and act as "animal doulas"
- The beautiful ways animals honor dying companions—sitting vigil, offering comfort, and staying close
- Why some animals step back as death approaches while others stay until the final breath
- What happens when pets encounter the body of a deceased companion
- The profound difference between expected deaths (gradual decline) and sudden, unexpected losses
- How creating an "honoring space" helps surviving pets process what has happened
- Signs of grief in cats and dogs—and why maintaining routine matters
- The phenomenon of continuing bonds: how pets sense the energy of departed companions
- Real stories from BrightHaven's decades of hospice care experience
- Why bringing your pet's body home (even briefly) can provide closure for other family members
🐾Whether you're currently caring for an aging or ill pet, or want to be prepared for the future, this episode offers compassionate, practical wisdom for supporting your entire animal family through loss. You're not alone in your journey.💜
📌 Related Resource:
- Blog Post: Pet Memorial Rituals: The 3-Day Honoring Tradition at Home - https://brightpathforpets.com/blog/pet-memorials-at-home-3-day-honoring/
🌹 Join our monthly Rose Ceremony (free online pet celebration): https://brightpathforpets.com/rose-ceremony/
💬 If this episode touched your heart, you’re not alone. The BrightHaven Caregivers’ Hub is our supportive membership community for pet parents navigating caregiving, anticipatory grief, and all the moments in between.
We gather to share stories, ask questions, and care for each other as we care for our animals. If you’re walking this path, we’d be honored to walk it with you.
🔗 Learn more about the Hub: https://brightpathforpets.com/caregivers-hub/
📌Thanks for listening! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review 🐶⭐🐱
📌About the Hosts:
💜 Karen Wylie, EdD is Executive Director of Animal Hospice Group and Co-Founder of BrightHaven Caregiver Academy. She specializes in caregiver education and emotional support for pet parents navigating chronic illness, hospice, and end-of-life care.
💜 Gail Pope is Founder and President of BrightHaven, a nonprofit animal sanctuary and hospice with over 30 years of experience in holistic care and natural passing. She is internationally recognized for her pioneering work in animal hospice care.
Learn More from BrightHaven Caregiver Academy For free resources, upcoming workshops, and a supportive community dedicated to navigating life with your aging or ill pet:
- Visit our website: brightpathforpets.com
- Join us on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@brighthaven_animals
Connect with Us on Social:
- Facebook: www.facebook.com/brightpathforpets
- Instagram: @brightpathforpets
Disclaimer: This content is for educational purposes and not a substitute for professional advice. We are not veterinarians. While we do not provide medical diagnoses or treatments, we are experienced holistic caregivers. Our support focuses on helping you assess the situation, understand your options, and find clarity and calm in the middle of distress.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here with my dear friend and BrightHaven founder, Gail Pope.
Today we're going to be exploring a tender and often overlooked aspect of the lives of our pets.
That is what happens to the other pets in our home when one of their companions passes on.
(01:13):
Do they understand what has happened?
Do they grieve?
And if so, how?
And perhaps most importantly, how can we help them through what is a time of loss and adjustment for them?
So Gail, you and I have both seen firsthand that animals do grieve in different ways at different times.
It does show up in their behavior at times, their energy, their appetite, their sleep— all different ways.
(01:39):
Before we talk about the moment after death, let's take a look at how our animals may acknowledge that one of their companion's time is coming because they seem to sense changes in energy, changes in smell.
I feel my cats and dogs have shown me that they can anticipate death.
How about you, what have you seen that you could share a little bit about with BrightHaven animals?
Gail Pope (02:04):
I'm so glad you asked me this question.
You are not going to be terribly happy.
But in all honesty, this is a part of the dying process that I really could talk for days on because having such a huge animal family has taught me so much about all stages of life.
Animals beginning the grieving process with anticipatory grief is what I know best of all because I could jot down probably, I don't know, maybe a hundred names of animals that I remember as doulas that would be with another animal when they were dying.
(02:41):
We've had dogs lying with cats who are I don't mean necessarily actively dying but if a cat or a dog has made it very obvious— maybe they're not getting up anymore or they're incontinent, they can't walk but they're in that process.
They're still eating perhaps and they're still aware and with us but we know that the end is approaching.
(03:02):
That's when I see cats taking care of cats and dogs.
And dogs taking care of cats and other dogs.
So it's very clear to me that they completely understand the process and they communicate with each other, obviously on a different level than we do.
They know it.
I don't think it's necessarily a sensing.
(03:23):
I think it's deeper than that because it's not always the same animals that lie with the same dying one.
There's a mix of certain animals that have become very well known.
Like for instance, if I can tell a couple of stories.
Karen Wylie (03:39):
Please do.
Gail Pope (03:39):
I always begin with Patty's story because it is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen and I apologize to those that have heard it before.
When Patty, the German Shepherd, collapsed and was lying on a huge dog bed in the middle of our living room— she was a very timid dog.
She didn't make friends with the cats because she was literally scared of them.
But when she collapsed that day and we made her comfortable one by one, cats would approach and they would jump up and lie with her.
(04:06):
It was just astonishing.
There were probably about six cats and Joey the Chihuahua would sit beside her in his wheelchair just looking up at her lovingly.
Charlie, for instance, would lie around the back of his neck, always.
I have some wonderful photos.
Beauregard would generally be sitting, Patty would be lying on her side and Beauregard would sit right there sometimes with his paw on her, sometimes not but just sitting, gazing lovingly.
(04:32):
And that was a picture that we'd seen that was mainly cats caring for a dog.
Then I'm thinking of a cat story that was really remarkable and possibly "wow"— that's Furbee.
Furbee was a brain damaged cat.
He walked in circles.
He ate well.
He was never normal.
He was just our brain damaged little boy who didn't really understand life or living in it very much.
(04:58):
But he came to us and he thrived into his early teens.
It was during his adulthood that suddenly we realized that when another cat, I don't remember him being with a dog, but he made a habit of seeking out cats that were reaching the end of life just lying with them or lying around them, behind them with his paw over them.
(05:21):
Again, I've got lots of photos of Furbee.
Now, he was brain damaged.
He couldn't even walk in a straight line but he would find these animals at the appropriate time and he would literally lie down with them.
He'd get up when it was time to get something to eat or find a litter box but then he would circle his way back and lie down with them.
Sometimes he'd miss a morning or something and I'd think, "Oh, that was so sweet."
(05:43):
Then, "oh, Furbee's back with Lucy again." Or whoever it was.
Yes, I could talk forever about that.
I really do think the word doula is completely appropriate because it's almost as though they've had that training.
They don't want to do anything particular.
Occasionally, you'll see a cat grooming another cat but for the most part it's about just being with them.
(06:04):
Just being there for them and it's just a beautiful atmosphere.
Karen Wylie (06:08):
I have to agree.
What I've seen is similar in that some of the cats would, in my mind, deliberately be laying next to the cat that was declining.
Not if they were actively dying, like not the last one, two, or three days.
But if they were reaching a point where they were clearly declining that I would see other cats surrounding that cat with several of them sleeping up against the body.
(06:35):
I would interpret that as sharing their body warmth which, that's me as a human looking at it, thinking what's happening.
But then as one of the cats would get closer to death where they were more actively dying, the other cats would still be close to that cat, but no longer on top of that cat or up against that cat.
(06:56):
So it's like when they started realizing that cat was actively dying and the body temperature beginning to get cooler.
That's usually when they were no longer up against that cat was no longer sleeping next to that cat.
To me, it was like, okay they're sensing that it's more than just keeping each other warm.
Something different is happening and they would be, I want to say like 18 inches, 2 feet away.
(07:21):
It's not like they were leaving the room or even getting on another piece of furniture or something.
They would still want to be close by but it would be different.
At the time I was not thinking of them as doulas.
But now with the languaging that you and I use, those are definitely doula skills— trying to anticipate how to support the one who is dying.
Gail Pope (07:41):
You made me stop and think because I totally agree that they tend to give a little more space as death approaches.
I'm not sure whether it's because I would be much more present at that time.
So they stepped back a bit because they knew that I was being mom.
But I do remember lots of occasions too, again, one springs to mind right now is Ollie, 24-year-old daschund.
(08:06):
He lay in his bed winding down to the end and he was surrounded by plethora of cats.
But in particular, Beauregard who became very well known for probably a decade as a doula for accompanying the dying.
Beauregard was one of the team until Ollie really was in the last hours of life.
I'm picturing it now, the others were gradually, they weren't leaving the bed but they were starting to give distance.
(08:32):
At the time I wondered if it was because Beauregard was front and center and they were honoring his relationship.
Now I'm listening to you, it's making more sense that they were doing what is more normal.
Beauregard stayed with Ollie all the way through his last breath.
Then after Ollie had died, he literally, again, I've got photos of him with Ollie.
(08:54):
He laid down beside him with his arm around Ollie's neck and his chin on Ollie's head, and he just stayed with him for about four hours and then he moved away.
I remember Richard and I were sitting literally next on the couch.
We are having our dinner finally on the couch and there was no more panic at that point.
He's calm and he's peaceful.
(09:16):
I look over and there's Beauregard still there.
That was a very precious moment.
So I guess, we have to be open to think some animals in particular do have this, I don't know, it's an inherent gift of caring.
Karen Wylie (09:30):
And they're the information they're picking up on is different from what we're picking up on.
We're watching very carefully and using that what we see as our cue of how to support.
But cats and dogs appear to be getting their information very differently and interpreting it differently— what they should do?
What actions they should take?
Gail Pope (09:52):
I think it is a mix of grief and love and anticipation.
They all roll together in this beautiful period of honoring and it really was very beautiful.
I hadn't thought about that in a long time.
Karen Wylie (10:06):
It is part of what's beautiful about the process of death and dying.
Losing each of them is horrible but when we reflect on some of the circumstances and the responses of our other animals it's quite precious.
So you just brought up the honoring.
So let's talk a little bit now about shifting from other animals anticipating the death of one of the family to the death actually occurring.
(10:33):
In your experience with BrightHaven animals, were other animals right there at the time of dying?
Gail Pope (10:39):
Yes, almost always.
But it was different because, I don't know, just because it was a different change.
Sometimes I would be in bed there'd be maybe five cats on the bed but there would generally be one that was the dying one may have been lying with me, and the other one would be on the other side, taking care of them from that side.
(11:00):
Or I'd be on a blow up bed or just lying on the floor beside them.
Sometimes there wouldn't be any other animals there at that point but more often than not there was one more likely a cat than a dog.
Not sure why that would be but just as pictures are floating through my mind of times where I was lying somewhere or on a couch or wherever I might be with an animal who was dying and there were always other animals around.
(11:26):
There were pretty much mostly cats but they weren't doing the loving, lying and cuddling.
They weren't doing that.
They were more of a "we're in the presence of something." It felt different and maybe it's because of my emotional attachment, whereas before I was like, "Oh, that's so beautiful.
(11:47):
Aren't they lovely?"
But now I'm actually part of it.
So maybe, it's hard to say.
Karen Wylie (11:53):
It's hard to separate out what could be caused by your energy or theirs— the cat or dog that's dying.
I've certainly had similar feelings or observations where they're still in the room but they're just further away.
Gail Pope (12:07):
Yes.
More than anything, it's just like sitting in vigil rather than being part of it.
Karen Wylie (12:12):
They're not leaving the room.
They're not wanting to not be a part of it but they also don't put themselves into the thick of things.
At least in the experiences I've had, that changes dramatically after the pet has died.
Let's talk a little bit about the honoring process that you have offered so often at BrightHaven for the pet that has died.
(12:36):
We've talked about this in other podcast episodes, so we won't go into too much detail about why you always did that.
What's behind all that is Tibetan and Native American tradition of believing that the soul doesn't leave the body all at once but that it leaves over a period of days.
Allowing the body to stay in its home for a period of time is believed to be helpful in supporting the soul as it begins to make transition.
(13:03):
What have you observed from the surviving members of the family when you have created an honoring place for the pet that has just died?
What kind of behaviors do you see from the other furry members of the family?
Gail Pope (13:16):
That was very varied.
Generally after the animal had first died, literally just died and the household is coming to at this point, I would place the animal, let's say cat for size, into a basket.
I would leave the basket on the floor in generally in the area or place in the middle of the living room where everybody would come by.
(13:42):
Unless of course they were somebody who lived in a particular different part of the house as their preference in living.
I would find that for the most part, the dogs would come up and they would sit almost as though people walking into church— they walk down the aisle and then they just stop for a moment to honor and then they walk away.
That's the kind of thing that I would see with dogs.
(14:03):
With cats, oh my goodness, some wouldn't show any interest whatsoever.
Some would definitely sit in reverence and there was almost a smidge of confusion there.
I often wondered if the spirit had already stepped out of that body and it just felt as though they were confused.
But then other parts, I remember several occurrences where maybe the animal had died and I'd put them on a blanket or something while I prepared the basket.
(14:31):
So to put them in and make them comfortable.
And I turn around and see a cat literally walk over the body as though it wasn't there— like, "Oh my gosh."
That's again, when I wondered sometimes they did that and sometimes they didn't.
So was that about the spirit being still in the body?
So they showed reverence but if the spirit was out of the body but still close then what's the point?
(14:54):
They just walked over it.
Didn't exist.
It wasn't her.
It wasn't him.
Karen Wylie (14:59):
It's been interesting over the years to observe some of these patterns just as you have.
With the cats, when they are in the same room with the cat that has died, I've observed the same kind of quiet.
I wonder if I want to say quiet respect because they do seem to come forward.
They put their nose close to the body to sense that cat has indeed passed on.
(15:25):
Then they pretty much back away.
Some of them leave the room, maybe half of them leave the room.
The other half just resume being a few feet away and still staying in the area.
But I have observed very big differences between how the animals behave when the death is due to an illness or a long period of decline as compared to when the death is sudden.
(15:47):
So what you've been describing and what I've been agreeing with are situations where the animal has really been in hospice care, as we would often talk about it.
Like they're in stage four kidney failure.
They're definitely declining.
The other organs in their body are shutting down but it's taking place over a period of days.
(16:08):
So everybody gets a sense of the energy changing.
They can say their goodbyes and they can keep vigil.
They can keep them warm or choose, "Okay, we're not going to keep them warm any anymore."
And then they're still close by but they're changing their behavior.
Over the last few years, I've had two deaths that were not expected and the animals behaved very differently.
(16:29):
I think I've mentioned them in other podcast episodes, so I won't belabor the point, but I'll just describe the behavior that's different.
A few years ago I had a three-year-old Heinz 57 variety kitty that I had adopted from the yard.
He had emergency surgery and he died within a half hour of the surgery to repair a tear in his bladder.
I brought him home and put him in a little basket.
(16:50):
His litter-mate sister, I swear we always talked about them as twins.
She went right up to him and she was very puzzled.
She kept smelling, just nuzzling him a little bit and then she'd go away and lay down about three or four feet away.
10 minutes later, she's back at his body and she's the one who I think I told you, literally took her paw and started hitting her brother's head in the basket.
(17:14):
At that point when I brought him home from the clinic, it was the following day because the surgery was late at night, so I didn't bring him back that night.
I don't know if it was confusion, disorientation, anger.
I don't know what emotion to attach to her behavior but I'd never seen an animal reach out and literally trying to get her brother to move.
(17:36):
After going back, laying down for another 10 minutes, she then came back and smelled him.
Then she laid down, put her back to where his back was in the basket.
She got as close as she could get and she just laid there for about another half hour or so.
So I remember thinking at that time, now I always bury my babies in a front yard garden that we've talked about at our episode last week.
(17:59):
I think we were talking about different ways that we choose cremation or burial.
But when the clinic called me the next day to say "He was ready" basically.
They said, "Do you want us to arrange cremation for you?"
And I said, "Oh, no. I'll come down and get him. I want to bury him."
But I thought about the fact after I saw her behavior with her brother, what would it have been like for her if I hadn't brought his body home for her to see and interact with?
(18:24):
What if that made me think about situations where a pet is euthanized.
The pet's body is sent to cremation and not brought home.
So I can't say exactly what her behavior would've been if I had not brought him home but I can say that she certainly had a dramatic reaction to her brother's body.
(18:46):
Not responding how she was used to him responding and that's because he had emergency surgery.
There was no preparation time.
There was never a decline to anticipate anything.
Then I had not a similar loss but Mr. Hope who died two and a half years ago, who had the series of things (18:55):
Hypertrophic Cardio, kidney, everything.
We knew at some point one of those was going to take him out.
He had a wonderful last day.
Everything normal and his heart just stopped while he was sleeping.
But the dogs were totally unprepared for his loss because they interacted with him every day.
(19:22):
He was acting very normally up until one morning when he had passed on.
One of the Aussies, Livy, was literally taking her nose and trying to get his body to move.
She's a herding animal.
She was trying to make him move and she just was frustrated and "Why isn't he moving?"
Whereas the other Aussie just put his head close to the bed and just watched.
(19:46):
So all that is to say that after having so many elder cats over the years, having a short a decline over time and then a natural transition.
Having two losses that were surprising to the other members of the family and even Tim and me.
The reaction was very different but they were reactions.
(20:06):
I guess my point here is I think the type of loss that's encountered and experienced affects how our animals grieve and how they're going to react.
Gail Pope (20:16):
I was fascinated by what you were saying and to me it seems that what you were describing in those stories was actually part of the dying process.
I understand that the animals were dead.
They had died and it had happened suddenly, quickly.
But if you look at the story from a spiritual aspect and the animal's behavior which seemed to me to say, "His spirit's still here. Why isn't he moving?"
(20:43):
They don't grasp the details that we apportioned to dying.
So to them, he was still in the dying process because his spirit was still with his body.
Karen Wylie (20:52):
That's interesting.
Gail Pope (20:53):
It's just what came to me.
It makes total sense.
Karen Wylie (20:55):
It makes total sense.
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (20:57):
They are so wise and they are so in tune with energy— this world of energy that we struggle to understand.
So when you look at their behaviors in all parts of life.
Karen Wylie (21:08):
Whereas, when we have a loss where an animal has been gradually declining and their physical activity less and less.
That the soul may start separation before the physical death.
We don't know that but it could be.
It could be.
But certainly the animals appear to respond very differently to that kind of a death than the others.
(21:29):
So either they're confused, like you're saying, where it's part of the death process and they're confused by the soul leaving the body but the body not moving because that's a whole different way for them to relate to that— their friend, their family member.
Or grieving with my little girl, Giselle, hitting her brother.
I guess I'll always think of that as anger and frustration of not understanding when she was hitting her brother, trying to get him to move.
Gail Pope (21:55):
Again, though, that could be part of what I said because the spirit was still there and Giselle was sensing that spirit still there but the actual body wasn't moving.
And yes, why wouldn't you be frustrated?
"I know you are here. Come on. Wake up."
Karen Wylie (22:11):
That's right.
"Get with it.
Get with it here.
Yesterday you were fine.
Now today you're not."
We've talked about anticipatory grief and how animals can sense the coming transition of other members of the family.
We're talking about the honoring timeframe when they have access to the family members' body.
(22:31):
Now what about grieving afterwards, what have you seen of how animals show their grief or their difficulty perhaps in adapting to life without the loved family member?
Gail Pope (22:43):
Again, I think my answer probably isn't the normal one because of having so many animals as part of my family.
What I did see almost always would be that other animals would honor the particular bed that cat or dog had used.
They would just walk by it.
They wouldn't go in it, they wouldn't use it.
They would honor it and just walk by.
(23:04):
After maybe, I don't know when the time felt right, a couple of weeks or something, I might move it to a different place and wash the covers and stuff, and then they would use it again.
But initially they would show honor and reverence to it.
Beyond that, I don't think I ever really saw the animals grieve.
I think they, they had learned to do what we did to grieve before and then to just experience a different kind of energy in the days going forward.
(23:30):
You could sense a change, but I wouldn't see them necessarily, or obviously grieving.
But they wouldn't go and sit by his or her bed and just sit there as though they were thinking about them.
The dog still wanted to go for a walk at a particular time.
The cats wanted dinner and and nothing in the routine would be obviously changing as they were grieving.
(23:52):
I didn't see it.
Karen Wylie (23:53):
Keeping to the same routines is usually very important If for animals that, that are experiencing grief.
It just provides that emotional stability for them.
And again I'm in total agreement with you when I would have cats declining over a period of time.
Everyone would seem to accept that, that the physical death occurred.
(24:14):
In any way show that they were grieving in the two situations I was describing that happened suddenly the one with emergency surgery.
And then with hope his heart just stopping in the middle of the night.
In those situations, the animals appeared to continue processing the situation.
For the little guy who died right after the emergency surgery and his sister was upset.
(24:40):
She was very, I would say she was different for several weeks.
She was just more quiet.
Just really not very active.
She still had one brother.
This was, that's the group I brought in during COVID to prevent them from being in cages for a few months.
And I just I just adopted them.
So she still had a brother to be with but she was much closer to the one who had died.
(25:03):
So I definitely saw a change in her behavior.
And.
Then the change that I've seen with Chey and Livy in response to Hope's death is really they, no, they were confused the first few days.
They kept going over looking at his bed, just confirming that he was gone.
(25:24):
But since then, as I've described multiple times on this podcast, if I mention his name, they're looking up at the corner of the ceiling where they apparently sense his energy.
So the grief then becomes a continued relationship.
It's different.
It's part of the, what we often talk about is continuing bonds after death.
(25:48):
And I definitely see other pets responding to unseen energy after death.
How about you?
Gail Pope (25:57):
Oh gosh, always.
Hundreds and hundreds of stories, but I'm still stuck on a memory that just came back into my mind.
Which puts in another little piece to the puzzle, which is on several occasions I've had animals who are approaching the end of life and a family member or a best friend, if you like, was also approaching the end of life.
(26:20):
But at different stages.
And then one would die with the other in attendance, and then that one would die also.
That's a little different.
I wrote down quick a quick succession.
Prince and Princess sprang to my mind as really heralding that.
They were mother and son and they came.
(26:40):
Princess and Prince.
So we kept their names and they did exactly that.
They spent most of their lives together.
I guess a kitten and their mother don't often get the opportunity to grow up in the same family and the, these were adults.
They weren't young at all.
But when Princess died, prince, his behavior changed right away.
(27:02):
And I think it was within two or three days that he just let go and he stepped out and he died.
There have been several of those kinds of stories.
I've not thought about it in years, but we actually hear about things like that from the human world, don't we?
Karen Wylie (27:17):
I was just going to say that we have, we hear so many stories die and so be it.
Gail Pope (27:22):
So yes, my goodness.
So many memories.
Wow.
Karen Wylie (27:27):
Yes.
That's by allowing them to be part of the dying and death process, to be part of the honoring process whether it's for a few hours after death or a full three days.
As you've discussed at various times some that you do sometimes it seems to allow the surviving pets to experience different emotions.
(27:50):
They certainly respond differently and we might be attributing emotions to them, but their behavior is different.
And as you're saying, prince, within two or three days he's stepping out.
Gail Pope (27:59):
You know what?
Underlining the entire conversation.
It sounds silly but animals are sentient beings.
Karen Wylie (28:07):
Yes, they are.
Gail Pope (28:08):
Why in the heck would we expect to actually see any difference?
Because if you look at the big picture, there really isn't a difference.
The emotion, the energy is pretty much the same.
So why wouldn't the trajectories be the same?
As humans we don't all follow the same processes of grief and honoring and reverence.
(28:30):
So why should animals?
We have all these different kinds of stories and we can easily just step that fence into the human world and there they all are as well there.
So it just makes sense.
Just remaining open to it and just allowing it.
I don't know, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy which isn't a feeling that you generally get when you're talking about death and dying.
Karen Wylie (28:52):
You can get warm and fuzzy when you reflect on these experiences because in a lot of cases, I don't want to say I pat myself on the back, but I feel like I created a situation that allowed all members of the family the opportunity that they needed or wanted to say goodbye.
Where just all the different experiences you're describing and that I'm describing, it's allowing that experience.
(29:14):
It allows each furry member of the family to have clarity about the other member of the family that has gone— to know what happened to them.
When I've spoken with friends that were planning to euthanize their pets, I have often told some of these stories.
Encouraged them to bring their pet home for a few hours or over for the other furry members of the family to become very clear on what has happened.
(29:37):
That the pet just didn't disappear, didn't just leave the home and never came back.
But to allow them to have that visual of an experience of that pet being gone.
Gail Pope (29:46):
As a child, I was very familiar with that situation because I know a couple of dogs that I remember from my childhood mysteriously just vanished.
I wasn't really part and parcel and I didn't understand.
I didn't know.
I was shielded from the word death.
Karen Wylie (30:02):
I think a lot of us were shielded from death and parents just didn't want to experience whatever grief we would have if we understood what was really happening.
So they just ran away.
They just disappeared.
You still grieve but you don't ever have closure.
And speaking of closure, what else can we say about this topic or have we come to the end?
Gail Pope (30:23):
We've come to the end.
That's delightful.
Really was delightful.
It brought so many old memories, beautiful memories up for me.
Again, all I can say is it's all about love because seeing animals in these loving situations, oh my goodness, it just brings a whole new level to the word.
Karen Wylie (30:45):
It definitely does.
Beautifully said, as always, my friend.
So thank you for this lovely conversation, and we thank you for being with us.
We hope that you'll join us again next week on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (30:58):
Goodbye.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(31:34):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here with my dear friend and BrightHaven founder, Gail Pope.
Today we're going to be exploring a tender and often overlooked aspect of the lives of our pets.
That is what happens to the other pets in our home when one of their companions passes on.
(01:13):
Do they understand what has happened?
Do they grieve?
And if so, how?
And perhaps most importantly, how can we help them through what is a time of loss and adjustment for them?
So Gail, you and I have both seen firsthand that animals do grieve in different ways at different times.
It does show up in their behavior at times, their energy, their appetite, their sleep— all different ways.
(01:39):
Before we talk about the moment after death, let's take a look at how our animals may acknowledge that one of their companion's time is coming because they seem to sense changes in energy, changes in smell.
I feel my cats and dogs have shown me that they can anticipate death.
How about you, what have you seen that you could share a little bit about with BrightHaven animals?
Gail Pope (02:04):
I'm so glad you asked me this question.
You are not going to be terribly happy.
But in all honesty, this is a part of the dying process that I really could talk for days on because having such a huge animal family has taught me so much about all stages of life.
Animals beginning the grieving process with anticipatory grief is what I know best of all because I could jot down probably, I don't know, maybe a hundred names of animals that I remember as doulas that would be with another animal when they were dying.
(02:41):
We've had dogs lying with cats who are I don't mean necessarily actively dying but if a cat or a dog has made it very obvious— maybe they're not getting up anymore or they're incontinent, they can't walk but they're in that process.
They're still eating perhaps and they're still aware and with us but we know that the end is approaching.
(03:02):
That's when I see cats taking care of cats and dogs.
And dogs taking care of cats and other dogs.
So it's very clear to me that they completely understand the process and they communicate with each other, obviously on a different level than we do.
They know it.
I don't think it's necessarily a sensing.
(03:23):
I think it's deeper than that because it's not always the same animals that lie with the same dying one.
There's a mix of certain animals that have become very well known.
Like for instance, if I can tell a couple of stories.
Karen Wylie (03:39):
Please do.
Gail Pope (03:39):
I always begin with Patty's story because it is one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen and I apologize to those that have heard it before.
When Patty, the German Shepherd, collapsed and was lying on a huge dog bed in the middle of our living room— she was a very timid dog.
She didn't make friends with the cats because she was literally scared of them.
But when she collapsed that day and we made her comfortable one by one, cats would approach and they would jump up and lie with her.
(04:06):
It was just astonishing.
There were probably about six cats and Joey the Chihuahua would sit beside her in his wheelchair just looking up at her lovingly.
Charlie, for instance, would lie around the back of his neck, always.
I have some wonderful photos.
Beauregard would generally be sitting, Patty would be lying on her side and Beauregard would sit right there sometimes with his paw on her, sometimes not but just sitting, gazing lovingly.
(04:32):
And that was a picture that we'd seen that was mainly cats caring for a dog.
Then I'm thinking of a cat story that was really remarkable and possibly "wow"— that's Furbee.
Furbee was a brain damaged cat.
He walked in circles.
He ate well.
He was never normal.
He was just our brain damaged little boy who didn't really understand life or living in it very much.
(04:58):
But he came to us and he thrived into his early teens.
It was during his adulthood that suddenly we realized that when another cat, I don't remember him being with a dog, but he made a habit of seeking out cats that were reaching the end of life just lying with them or lying around them, behind them with his paw over them.
(05:21):
Again, I've got lots of photos of Furbee.
Now, he was brain damaged.
He couldn't even walk in a straight line but he would find these animals at the appropriate time and he would literally lie down with them.
He'd get up when it was time to get something to eat or find a litter box but then he would circle his way back and lie down with them.
Sometimes he'd miss a morning or something and I'd think, "Oh, that was so sweet."
(05:43):
Then, "oh, Furbee's back with Lucy again." Or whoever it was.
Yes, I could talk forever about that.
I really do think the word doula is completely appropriate because it's almost as though they've had that training.
They don't want to do anything particular.
Occasionally, you'll see a cat grooming another cat but for the most part it's about just being with them.
(06:04):
Just being there for them and it's just a beautiful atmosphere.
Karen Wylie (06:08):
I have to agree.
What I've seen is similar in that some of the cats would, in my mind, deliberately be laying next to the cat that was declining.
Not if they were actively dying, like not the last one, two, or three days.
But if they were reaching a point where they were clearly declining that I would see other cats surrounding that cat with several of them sleeping up against the body.
(06:35):
I would interpret that as sharing their body warmth which, that's me as a human looking at it, thinking what's happening.
But then as one of the cats would get closer to death where they were more actively dying, the other cats would still be close to that cat, but no longer on top of that cat or up against that cat.
(06:56):
So it's like when they started realizing that cat was actively dying and the body temperature beginning to get cooler.
That's usually when they were no longer up against that cat was no longer sleeping next to that cat.
To me, it was like, okay they're sensing that it's more than just keeping each other warm.
Something different is happening and they would be, I want to say like 18 inches, 2 feet away.
(07:21):
It's not like they were leaving the room or even getting on another piece of furniture or something.
They would still want to be close by but it would be different.
At the time I was not thinking of them as doulas.
But now with the languaging that you and I use, those are definitely doula skills— trying to anticipate how to support the one who is dying.
Gail Pope (07:41):
You made me stop and think because I totally agree that they tend to give a little more space as death approaches.
I'm not sure whether it's because I would be much more present at that time.
So they stepped back a bit because they knew that I was being mom.
But I do remember lots of occasions too, again, one springs to mind right now is Ollie, 24-year-old daschund.
(08:06):
He lay in his bed winding down to the end and he was surrounded by plethora of cats.
But in particular, Beauregard who became very well known for probably a decade as a doula for accompanying the dying.
Beauregard was one of the team until Ollie really was in the last hours of life.
I'm picturing it now, the others were gradually, they weren't leaving the bed but they were starting to give distance.
(08:32):
At the time I wondered if it was because Beauregard was front and center and they were honoring his relationship.
Now I'm listening to you, it's making more sense that they were doing what is more normal.
Beauregard stayed with Ollie all the way through his last breath.
Then after Ollie had died, he literally, again, I've got photos of him with Ollie.
(08:54):
He laid down beside him with his arm around Ollie's neck and his chin on Ollie's head, and he just stayed with him for about four hours and then he moved away.
I remember Richard and I were sitting literally next on the couch.
We are having our dinner finally on the couch and there was no more panic at that point.
He's calm and he's peaceful.
(09:16):
I look over and there's Beauregard still there.
That was a very precious moment.
So I guess, we have to be open to think some animals in particular do have this, I don't know, it's an inherent gift of caring.
Karen Wylie (09:30):
And they're the information they're picking up on is different from what we're picking up on.
We're watching very carefully and using that what we see as our cue of how to support.
But cats and dogs appear to be getting their information very differently and interpreting it differently— what they should do?
What actions they should take?
Gail Pope (09:52):
I think it is a mix of grief and love and anticipation.
They all roll together in this beautiful period of honoring and it really was very beautiful.
I hadn't thought about that in a long time.
Karen Wylie (10:06):
It is part of what's beautiful about the process of death and dying.
Losing each of them is horrible but when we reflect on some of the circumstances and the responses of our other animals it's quite precious.
So you just brought up the honoring.
So let's talk a little bit now about shifting from other animals anticipating the death of one of the family to the death actually occurring.
(10:33):
In your experience with BrightHaven animals, were other animals right there at the time of dying?
Gail Pope (10:39):
Yes, almost always.
But it was different because, I don't know, just because it was a different change.
Sometimes I would be in bed there'd be maybe five cats on the bed but there would generally be one that was the dying one may have been lying with me, and the other one would be on the other side, taking care of them from that side.
(11:00):
Or I'd be on a blow up bed or just lying on the floor beside them.
Sometimes there wouldn't be any other animals there at that point but more often than not there was one more likely a cat than a dog.
Not sure why that would be but just as pictures are floating through my mind of times where I was lying somewhere or on a couch or wherever I might be with an animal who was dying and there were always other animals around.
(11:26):
There were pretty much mostly cats but they weren't doing the loving, lying and cuddling.
They weren't doing that.
They were more of a "we're in the presence of something." It felt different and maybe it's because of my emotional attachment, whereas before I was like, "Oh, that's so beautiful.
(11:47):
Aren't they lovely?"
But now I'm actually part of it.
So maybe, it's hard to say.
Karen Wylie (11:53):
It's hard to separate out what could be caused by your energy or theirs— the cat or dog that's dying.
I've certainly had similar feelings or observations where they're still in the room but they're just further away.
Gail Pope (12:07):
Yes.
More than anything, it's just like sitting in vigil rather than being part of it.
Karen Wylie (12:12):
They're not leaving the room.
They're not wanting to not be a part of it but they also don't put themselves into the thick of things.
At least in the experiences I've had, that changes dramatically after the pet has died.
Let's talk a little bit about the honoring process that you have offered so often at BrightHaven for the pet that has died.
(12:36):
We've talked about this in other podcast episodes, so we won't go into too much detail about why you always did that.
What's behind all that is Tibetan and Native American tradition of believing that the soul doesn't leave the body all at once but that it leaves over a period of days.
Allowing the body to stay in its home for a period of time is believed to be helpful in supporting the soul as it begins to make transition.
(13:03):
What have you observed from the surviving members of the family when you have created an honoring place for the pet that has just died?
What kind of behaviors do you see from the other furry members of the family?
Gail Pope (13:16):
That was very varied.
Generally after the animal had first died, literally just died and the household is coming to at this point, I would place the animal, let's say cat for size, into a basket.
I would leave the basket on the floor in generally in the area or place in the middle of the living room where everybody would come by.
(13:42):
Unless of course they were somebody who lived in a particular different part of the house as their preference in living.
I would find that for the most part, the dogs would come up and they would sit almost as though people walking into church— they walk down the aisle and then they just stop for a moment to honor and then they walk away.
That's the kind of thing that I would see with dogs.
(14:03):
With cats, oh my goodness, some wouldn't show any interest whatsoever.
Some would definitely sit in reverence and there was almost a smidge of confusion there.
I often wondered if the spirit had already stepped out of that body and it just felt as though they were confused.
But then other parts, I remember several occurrences where maybe the animal had died and I'd put them on a blanket or something while I prepared the basket.
(14:31):
So to put them in and make them comfortable.
And I turn around and see a cat literally walk over the body as though it wasn't there— like, "Oh my gosh."
That's again, when I wondered sometimes they did that and sometimes they didn't.
So was that about the spirit being still in the body?
So they showed reverence but if the spirit was out of the body but still close then what's the point?
(14:54):
They just walked over it.
Didn't exist.
It wasn't her.
It wasn't him.
Karen Wylie (14:59):
It's been interesting over the years to observe some of these patterns just as you have.
With the cats, when they are in the same room with the cat that has died, I've observed the same kind of quiet.
I wonder if I want to say quiet respect because they do seem to come forward.
They put their nose close to the body to sense that cat has indeed passed on.
(15:25):
Then they pretty much back away.
Some of them leave the room, maybe half of them leave the room.
The other half just resume being a few feet away and still staying in the area.
But I have observed very big differences between how the animals behave when the death is due to an illness or a long period of decline as compared to when the death is sudden.
(15:47):
So what you've been describing and what I've been agreeing with are situations where the animal has really been in hospice care, as we would often talk about it.
Like they're in stage four kidney failure.
They're definitely declining.
The other organs in their body are shutting down but it's taking place over a period of days.
(16:08):
So everybody gets a sense of the energy changing.
They can say their goodbyes and they can keep vigil.
They can keep them warm or choose, "Okay, we're not going to keep them warm any anymore."
And then they're still close by but they're changing their behavior.
Over the last few years, I've had two deaths that were not expected and the animals behaved very differently.
(16:29):
I think I've mentioned them in other podcast episodes, so I won't belabor the point, but I'll just describe the behavior that's different.
A few years ago I had a three-year-old Heinz 57 variety kitty that I had adopted from the yard.
He had emergency surgery and he died within a half hour of the surgery to repair a tear in his bladder.
I brought him home and put him in a little basket.
(16:50):
His litter-mate sister, I swear we always talked about them as twins.
She went right up to him and she was very puzzled.
She kept smelling, just nuzzling him a little bit and then she'd go away and lay down about three or four feet away.
10 minutes later, she's back at his body and she's the one who I think I told you, literally took her paw and started hitting her brother's head in the basket.
(17:14):
At that point when I brought him home from the clinic, it was the following day because the surgery was late at night, so I didn't bring him back that night.
I don't know if it was confusion, disorientation, anger.
I don't know what emotion to attach to her behavior but I'd never seen an animal reach out and literally trying to get her brother to move.
(17:36):
After going back, laying down for another 10 minutes, she then came back and smelled him.
Then she laid down, put her back to where his back was in the basket.
She got as close as she could get and she just laid there for about another half hour or so.
So I remember thinking at that time, now I always bury my babies in a front yard garden that we've talked about at our episode last week.
(17:59):
I think we were talking about different ways that we choose cremation or burial.
But when the clinic called me the next day to say "He was ready" basically.
They said, "Do you want us to arrange cremation for you?"
And I said, "Oh, no. I'll come down and get him. I want to bury him."
But I thought about the fact after I saw her behavior with her brother, what would it have been like for her if I hadn't brought his body home for her to see and interact with?
(18:24):
What if that made me think about situations where a pet is euthanized.
The pet's body is sent to cremation and not brought home.
So I can't say exactly what her behavior would've been if I had not brought him home but I can say that she certainly had a dramatic reaction to her brother's body.
(18:46):
Not responding how she was used to him responding and that's because he had emergency surgery.
There was no preparation time.
There was never a decline to anticipate anything.
Then I had not a similar loss but Mr. Hope who died two and a half years ago, who had the series of things (18:55):
Hypertrophic Cardio, kidney, everything.
We knew at some point one of those was going to take him out.
He had a wonderful last day.
Everything normal and his heart just stopped while he was sleeping.
But the dogs were totally unprepared for his loss because they interacted with him every day.
(19:22):
He was acting very normally up until one morning when he had passed on.
One of the Aussies, Livy, was literally taking her nose and trying to get his body to move.
She's a herding animal.
She was trying to make him move and she just was frustrated and "Why isn't he moving?"
Whereas the other Aussie just put his head close to the bed and just watched.
(19:46):
So all that is to say that after having so many elder cats over the years, having a short a decline over time and then a natural transition.
Having two losses that were surprising to the other members of the family and even Tim and me.
The reaction was very different but they were reactions.
(20:06):
I guess my point here is I think the type of loss that's encountered and experienced affects how our animals grieve and how they're going to react.
Gail Pope (20:16):
I was fascinated by what you were saying and to me it seems that what you were describing in those stories was actually part of the dying process.
I understand that the animals were dead.
They had died and it had happened suddenly, quickly.
But if you look at the story from a spiritual aspect and the animal's behavior which seemed to me to say, "His spirit's still here. Why isn't he moving?"
(20:43):
They don't grasp the details that we apportioned to dying.
So to them, he was still in the dying process because his spirit was still with his body.
Karen Wylie (20:52):
That's interesting.
Gail Pope (20:53):
It's just what came to me.
It makes total sense.
Karen Wylie (20:55):
It makes total sense.
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (20:57):
They are so wise and they are so in tune with energy— this world of energy that we struggle to understand.
So when you look at their behaviors in all parts of life.
Karen Wylie (21:08):
Whereas, when we have a loss where an animal has been gradually declining and their physical activity less and less.
That the soul may start separation before the physical death.
We don't know that but it could be.
It could be.
But certainly the animals appear to respond very differently to that kind of a death than the others.
(21:29):
So either they're confused, like you're saying, where it's part of the death process and they're confused by the soul leaving the body but the body not moving because that's a whole different way for them to relate to that— their friend, their family member.
Or grieving with my little girl, Giselle, hitting her brother.
I guess I'll always think of that as anger and frustration of not understanding when she was hitting her brother, trying to get him to move.
Gail Pope (21:55):
Again, though, that could be part of what I said because the spirit was still there and Giselle was sensing that spirit still there but the actual body wasn't moving.
And yes, why wouldn't you be frustrated?
"I know you are here. Come on. Wake up."
Karen Wylie (22:11):
That's right.
"Get with it.
Get with it here.
Yesterday you were fine.
Now today you're not."
We've talked about anticipatory grief and how animals can sense the coming transition of other members of the family.
We're talking about the honoring timeframe when they have access to the family members' body.
(22:31):
Now what about grieving afterwards, what have you seen of how animals show their grief or their difficulty perhaps in adapting to life without the loved family member?
Gail Pope (22:43):
Again, I think my answer probably isn't the normal one because of having so many animals as part of my family.
What I did see almost always would be that other animals would honor the particular bed that cat or dog had used.
They would just walk by it.
They wouldn't go in it, they wouldn't use it.
They would honor it and just walk by.
(23:04):
After maybe, I don't know when the time felt right, a couple of weeks or something, I might move it to a different place and wash the covers and stuff, and then they would use it again.
But initially they would show honor and reverence to it.
Beyond that, I don't think I ever really saw the animals grieve.
I think they, they had learned to do what we did to grieve before and then to just experience a different kind of energy in the days going forward.
(23:30):
You could sense a change, but I wouldn't see them necessarily, or obviously grieving.
But they wouldn't go and sit by his or her bed and just sit there as though they were thinking about them.
The dog still wanted to go for a walk at a particular time.
The cats wanted dinner and and nothing in the routine would be obviously changing as they were grieving.
(23:52):
I didn't see it.
Karen Wylie (23:53):
Keeping to the same routines is usually very important If for animals that, that are experiencing grief.
It just provides that emotional stability for them.
And again I'm in total agreement with you when I would have cats declining over a period of time.
Everyone would seem to accept that, that the physical death occurred.
(24:14):
In any way show that they were grieving in the two situations I was describing that happened suddenly the one with emergency surgery.
And then with hope his heart just stopping in the middle of the night.
In those situations, the animals appeared to continue processing the situation.
For the little guy who died right after the emergency surgery and his sister was upset.
(24:40):
She was very, I would say she was different for several weeks.
She was just more quiet.
Just really not very active.
She still had one brother.
This was, that's the group I brought in during COVID to prevent them from being in cages for a few months.
And I just I just adopted them.
So she still had a brother to be with but she was much closer to the one who had died.
(25:03):
So I definitely saw a change in her behavior.
And.
Then the change that I've seen with Chey and Livy in response to Hope's death is really they, no, they were confused the first few days.
They kept going over looking at his bed, just confirming that he was gone.
(25:24):
But since then, as I've described multiple times on this podcast, if I mention his name, they're looking up at the corner of the ceiling where they apparently sense his energy.
So the grief then becomes a continued relationship.
It's different.
It's part of the, what we often talk about is continuing bonds after death.
(25:48):
And I definitely see other pets responding to unseen energy after death.
How about you?
Gail Pope (25:57):
Oh gosh, always.
Hundreds and hundreds of stories, but I'm still stuck on a memory that just came back into my mind.
Which puts in another little piece to the puzzle, which is on several occasions I've had animals who are approaching the end of life and a family member or a best friend, if you like, was also approaching the end of life.
(26:20):
But at different stages.
And then one would die with the other in attendance, and then that one would die also.
That's a little different.
I wrote down quick a quick succession.
Prince and Princess sprang to my mind as really heralding that.
They were mother and son and they came.
(26:40):
Princess and Prince.
So we kept their names and they did exactly that.
They spent most of their lives together.
I guess a kitten and their mother don't often get the opportunity to grow up in the same family and the, these were adults.
They weren't young at all.
But when Princess died, prince, his behavior changed right away.
(27:02):
And I think it was within two or three days that he just let go and he stepped out and he died.
There have been several of those kinds of stories.
I've not thought about it in years, but we actually hear about things like that from the human world, don't we?
Karen Wylie (27:17):
I was just going to say that we have, we hear so many stories die and so be it.
Gail Pope (27:22):
So yes, my goodness.
So many memories.
Wow.
Karen Wylie (27:27):
Yes.
That's by allowing them to be part of the dying and death process, to be part of the honoring process whether it's for a few hours after death or a full three days.
As you've discussed at various times some that you do sometimes it seems to allow the surviving pets to experience different emotions.
(27:50):
They certainly respond differently and we might be attributing emotions to them, but their behavior is different.
And as you're saying, prince, within two or three days he's stepping out.
Gail Pope (27:59):
You know what?
Underlining the entire conversation.
It sounds silly but animals are sentient beings.
Karen Wylie (28:07):
Yes, they are.
Gail Pope (28:08):
Why in the heck would we expect to actually see any difference?
Because if you look at the big picture, there really isn't a difference.
The emotion, the energy is pretty much the same.
So why wouldn't the trajectories be the same?
As humans we don't all follow the same processes of grief and honoring and reverence.
(28:30):
So why should animals?
We have all these different kinds of stories and we can easily just step that fence into the human world and there they all are as well there.
So it just makes sense.
Just remaining open to it and just allowing it.
I don't know, it makes me feel warm and fuzzy which isn't a feeling that you generally get when you're talking about death and dying.
Karen Wylie (28:52):
You can get warm and fuzzy when you reflect on these experiences because in a lot of cases, I don't want to say I pat myself on the back, but I feel like I created a situation that allowed all members of the family the opportunity that they needed or wanted to say goodbye.
Where just all the different experiences you're describing and that I'm describing, it's allowing that experience.
(29:14):
It allows each furry member of the family to have clarity about the other member of the family that has gone— to know what happened to them.
When I've spoken with friends that were planning to euthanize their pets, I have often told some of these stories.
Encouraged them to bring their pet home for a few hours or over for the other furry members of the family to become very clear on what has happened.
(29:37):
That the pet just didn't disappear, didn't just leave the home and never came back.
But to allow them to have that visual of an experience of that pet being gone.
Gail Pope (29:46):
As a child, I was very familiar with that situation because I know a couple of dogs that I remember from my childhood mysteriously just vanished.
I wasn't really part and parcel and I didn't understand.
I didn't know.
I was shielded from the word death.
Karen Wylie (30:02):
I think a lot of us were shielded from death and parents just didn't want to experience whatever grief we would have if we understood what was really happening.
So they just ran away.
They just disappeared.
You still grieve but you don't ever have closure.
And speaking of closure, what else can we say about this topic or have we come to the end?
Gail Pope (30:23):
We've come to the end.
That's delightful.
Really was delightful.
It brought so many old memories, beautiful memories up for me.
Again, all I can say is it's all about love because seeing animals in these loving situations, oh my goodness, it just brings a whole new level to the word.
Karen Wylie (30:45):
It definitely does.
Beautifully said, as always, my friend.
So thank you for this lovely conversation, and we thank you for being with us.
We hope that you'll join us again next week on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (30:58):
Goodbye.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(31:34):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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