October 1, 2025 • 29 mins
If you've ever found yourself lying awake at night asking, "How will I know when it's time?"—you're not alone. This question haunts nearly every pet parent caring for an aging or seriously ill animal. In this episode of Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, Gail Pope and Karen Wylie tackle this fear-based question head-on and offer a compassionate reframing that can change everything.
Gail and Karen explore why the common searches—"Is it time to put my dog down?" "What are the signs my cat is suffering?" "How will I know when my pet is ready to go?"—all stem from a terrifying assumption: that there's one magic moment, and if you miss it, you've failed your beloved companion.
But what if that's not true? What if the dying process itself isn't automatically painful? What if "better a day too early than a day too late" is based more on fear than fact?
In this conversation, you'll discover:
- Why the dying process is not inherently painful, and how pain typically comes from chronic illness that should already be managed
- The difference between pain and suffering—and why what we perceive as suffering may be our own experience rather than our pet's
- How to reframe "Is it time?" into more helpful questions like "Is it time for what?"
- Why asking your vet specific questions about your pet's particular diagnosis is more useful than generic quality of life scales
- The importance of ongoing quality of life monitoring rather than one-time assessments done right before euthanasia
- How small daily adaptations can maintain joy and comfort even as pets decline
- Why hospice care offers a vital "third path" between aggressive treatment and immediate euthanasia
- The role of anticipatory grief and being present with your pet during their final chapter
Gail and Karen share decades of experience from BrightHaven's holistic animal sanctuary and their work training animal hospice professionals. Their message is clear: education reduces fear, and reducing fear creates space for more time, more presence, and more peace—for both you and your pet.
🐾Remember: You're not alone in your journey.💜
📌 Related Resource:
- Blog Post: "Is It Time for Euthanasia? Or Is It Time for Something Else?" at https://brightpathforpets.com/blog/is-it-time-for-euthanasia-or-something-else/
-
Living Quality of Life Assessment and Peaceful Quality of Dying Assessment, available at https://brightpathforpets.com/resources-html/
🌹 Join our monthly Rose Ceremony (free online pet celebration): https://brightpathforpets.com/rose-ceremony/
💬 If this episode touched your heart, you’re not alone. The BrightHaven Caregivers’ Hub is our supportive membership community for pet parents navigating caregiving, anticipatory grief, and all the moments in between.
We gather to share stories, ask questions, and care for each other as we care for our animals. If you’re walking this path, we’d be honored to walk it with you.
🔗 Learn more about the Hub: https://brightpathforpets.com/caregivers-hub/
📌Thanks for listening! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review 🐶⭐🐱
Learn More from BrightHaven Caregiver Academy For free resources, upcoming workshops, and a supportive community dedicated to navigating life with your aging or ill pet:
- Visit our website: brightpathforpets.com
- Join us on Youtube: www.youtube.com/@brighthaven_animals
Connect with Us on Social:
- Facebook: www.facebook.com/brightpathforpets
- Instagram: @brightpathforpets
Disclaimer: This content is for educational purposes and not a substitute for professional advice. We are not veterinarians. While we do not provide medical diagnoses or treatments, we are experienced holistic caregivers. Our support focuses on helping you assess the situation, understand your options, and find clarity and calm in the middle of distress.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here, as always, with my dear friend Gail Pope.
Today we're going to discuss a question that just about every pet parent we've ever spoken to about End of Life Care.
Has asked themselves at any time and that is how will I know when it's time?
(01:14):
We often say it in whispers.
Sometimes we're tossing and turning in bed, thinking about how to answer that question.
If we have an aging or ill pet.
Very often we're typing our questions into Dr. Google and I checked on those last night just to see all the common ones rising to the top:
"How do I know when it's time to put my dog down?"
(01:35):
"What are the signs my cat is suffering?"
"Is it time to euthanize if my dog won't eat?"
"How will I know when my pet is ready to go?"
So as you can see, there's a lot of various phrasing of these thoughts and these questions, but they all have this common denominator of (01:45):
"Is it time?"
If you have felt or thought those questions to yourself, you're certainly not alone.
Because there's one thing about all those types of questions, and that is that they're terrifying.
It makes us feel like there's just one magic moment and that if we miss it by a day or even a few hours, that we somehow have failed our beloved babies.
(02:16):
So it's no wonder that so many of us panic.
The question of is it time is very much connected to the fear of pain and suffering.
The slogan "Better a day too early than a day too late" ties into that same fear that if you don't act soon enough, you may have failed your pet or you may have not prevented suffering or pain in time.
(02:39):
But our vets don't have a crystal ball that's any more accurate than your own sense of what is right for your pet.
Because none of us can predict exactly when suffering or pain is going to begin.
That's the catch 22 for all of us about when we're being encouraged to act early to avoid suffering because most of the time suffering has not begun.
(03:01):
So Gail, you've been at the bedside of so many of your animals at BrightHaven, as well as supporting families who have this fear and often find themselves asking this question.
Can you take a minute to address if the dying process automatically means pain and suffering?
Gail Pope (03:20):
You do like to ask simple questions, don't you?
Karen Wylie (03:23):
I believe in starting off with the easiest thing.
Just ease our way into the conversation.
Gail Pope (03:29):
Actually, the overview you just gave, I thought it was wonderful.
However, I was sitting here realizing that it encompassed so much stuff.
Part of my brain was saying, "Oh my God, what's she going to ask me?" "This is terrible.
What am I going to do?"
But I think "Is it time?" sentence on its own is such a broad one.
(03:50):
Maybe we'll come back to it but it encompasses so much.
Is it time to change diet?
Is it time to try a different medicine?
Is it time?
Is it time?
It goes on and on.
But yes, I think pain and suffering without doubt, they're number one on the list for all of us.
Why wouldn't they be?
I think when we have to talk about a topic like this, we must bring the human world and the animal worlds pretty close together because we learn so much from humans at end of life.
(04:22):
That translates to how we can monitor what's going on for our animals too.
At least that's been my experience too with the deaths of my human family and also the deaths of my much larger animal family over many years.
But let's start with pain as far as I'm concerned pain is an everyday thing.
(04:42):
Again, it's this little four letter word.
On top of this it's a huge umbrella of the types of pain and in my mind instantly goes to emotional pain versus physical pain.
They're both strong and difficult but they're very different.
One of the things that I learned early on from human hospice care, in fact, was that dying itself— the process of dying is not painful.
(05:08):
That pain itself is due to the chronic illness.
Generally, pain comes from a chronic situation of illness.
By the time you get towards the end of life, that chronic illness should hopefully have been addressed and any pain resulting from it should be dealt with.
So when a being, I'll say being because humans, animals, we're all beings when a being is approaching the end of life.
(05:34):
If there has been pain in the past, then yes, you need to continue that medication and be watchful to ensure that it's helping.
However, if it hasn't been pain, it's very well documented that the process of dying is not painful.
And I think when I learned that early on, first, I don't think I believed it, and then I started to come down off my ledge.
(05:58):
And really pay attention and realize, "Wow, this is true. This is true."
I think working my way through the acceptance and knitting together, if you like, or pulling apart all the different aspects of pain.
It then took me into the subject of suffering— again, humongous big question.
(06:18):
It has so many different facets to it.
And again, you look at the human world and humans' suffering— oh, so many different diseases.
We attribute the word suffering generally pretty correctly.
That yes, there is suffering involved, emotional suffering as well as physical suffering.
(06:40):
Someone who's confined to a wheelchair and can't feed themselves or do much for themselves.
When you look at some of the stories.
They're absolutely amazing.
But the people involved, Stephen Hawkins was one, Christopher Reeve another.
They led amazing lives all the time.
The perception for anybody else was that, "Oh my God, they're suffering so badly."
(07:02):
So it's very hard to me to judge suffering.
I think for me, very often in my experience, suffering is my experience rather than the animal's experience.
For the most part, humans will be there.
I remember with my mom, the word suffering was, is she suffering?
But she was still vocal.
(07:23):
She was able to talk.
So when I very gently brought up the subject and "how were you feeling?"
She didn't ever say she was suffering when I asked those questions.
So that again, was a very educational time for me to find a balance.
When an animal is dealing with a symptom, acknowledge— that word's in my head.
So let me look at this even further and open it up, "Is it me that's perceiving suffering?"
(07:46):
And is the animal actually feeling it?
It, they're both very difficult subjects.
Karen Wylie (07:51):
Agreed, especially watching our animals decline and how their physiological form changes shape and condition as they decline.
It's a very difficult thing to watch.
It's one thing for us to teach caregivers to be monitoring and keeping notes but as you're talking about the emotional aspect of watching is watching them decline when over so often, over so many years we've taken pride in maintaining their condition wonderfully and shiny coats and happy pets.
(08:25):
And yet as they're declining, that doesn't assume that they're unhappy or as you're saying that they're suffering.
That is where these questions of, "is it time?"
It assumes that there is this magic window of decision making time.
Then the adage that's been developed recently of "Better a day too early than a day too late" does assume that pain and suffering will happen.
(08:50):
It's not really looking at the situation of if pain and suffering may occur or when it might occur but there is an underlying assumption that it will happen, it will occur, and we've got to get in there.
We've got to address it before it happens.
I know that's not where you and I generally go.
Thinking about how we can reframe the, is it time question— "Is it time for what?"
(09:13):
So I think just to tie in first with what you were just addressing, is that the first question we should probably be asking is "What can I ask my vet about any pain or suffering, specifically related to my dog or cat's condition, diagnosis, disease?"
It's not just a catchall phrase for all ailments of dogs or cats, just like it's not for all ailments that humans may experience.
(09:42):
There are certain diseases or certainly stages of disease that may involve some pain but there is some predictability attached to understanding that one disease.
Then understanding how that one person is experiencing it.
I think if we tie this down to our one pet and what our one pet needs asking our vets for help in identifying "What's pain going to look like in this situation?"
(10:09):
"What should I be watching for?" To me, that seems like one of the questions rather than "is it time to euthanize?"
But rather, "What else is it time for?" It's time to ask your vet for some input, help you understand better.
If the situation can be painful at some point, "How will I know, what should I be looking for in my pet?"
(10:29):
That seems like at least one place to start.
What are some other questions you think pet parents could be asking that takes this question of "Is it time to euthanize?" And starts reframing it with, "Is it time for some other questions to ask for some other things to do?"
Gail Pope (10:47):
Oh my gosh, yes.
The first thing that springs to mind is the topic of starvation and that goes hand in hand with dehydration.
They're always, I think, I guess we all have a fear at some level or other of actual death and dying.
We don't know what to expect.
So I think when someone we love stops eating or their appetite totally changes, then we panic.
(11:12):
We want to make them eat.
Even though the caregiver may actually understand and know that their animal is in or reaching the dying process, they know in their brain it's okay not to eat.
However, in daily life it's one of the ways that we show love.
Finding a human or an animal who says, "Thank you, but no, I'm not hungry."
(11:36):
Then we rush off and we try all sorts of different foods but our goal— it's we are so driven.
Let me find something you would like to eat.
In the early days of the process, then yes very often there will be something different and they'll take a few bites and you get excited, "That was great!" and they've only had a few bites but they loved it.
So we are learning all the time about that.
(11:57):
I think for me, the one thing that has helped or educated me most in the process of understanding these issues is understanding and I guess it comes down to education.
The more you understand about the process of dying— a lot of people they visualize life and then death but they don't open up this piece in the middle which is a much longer piece.
(12:22):
Dying isn't going to take place in generally, unless it's an acute one in just a few days.
It's a period of time and it's a gradual process.
Here I go again talking about the other doctor in the room because Mother Nature designed this process and it is a process.
If you're in an acute situation and you die, that's it.
(12:44):
That's the end.
However if you allow the process to unfold, it's very well orchestrated.
Eating and drinking very gradually fade away because the body needs to die.
It's not trying to live, it doesn't need the energy to stay alive.
It needs to allow everything to dissipate so that it can die.
It can complete its process.
Karen Wylie (13:05):
It's a very different process than a puppy or kitten growing up or maintaining the adult in prime condition.
It's an entirely different way to view what our pets need.
And it's a reversal, isn't it?
As we come, it's a whole—
Gail Pope (13:22):
Everything's gearing up to go forward as we are leaving, it's winding down.
That's a beautiful analogy.
Karen Wylie (13:28):
Yes.
At the same time, most of us are trying to stop that leaving process.
So because we don't want them to go, we want them to stay forever and yet they can't.
So it becomes this kind of a dance in our mind and with our pet of back and forth and back and forth.
I think this is of course something we will be addressing in the coming weeks but hospice care as a middle road, as a middle way, a third path, a third way.
(13:56):
Because it seems that when we take our pets to the vet, they're really wonderful with the diagnostics of trying to figure out what's going on.
God knows there's a lot of tests out there and it's very costly to go down multiple roads to try to figure out what's going on.
Then there's been incredible progress in terms of treatments that can be used to try to fix something, to try to stop decline, to remove a tumor, that kind of thing.
(14:25):
After that if the animal's condition or disease cannot be stopped and they continue to decline, it seems like the only suggestion that most vets have in their toolbox or their arsenal is euthanasia.
So there's this big and often be a long process, just like you're talking about that it's not like a Hollywood movie where we see humans in a deathbed with a couple final words and they, "That's it".
(14:50):
That's not how most human death occurs.
Certainly not with our pets either.
It can go on for days, weeks, or months as they decline over a period of time.
I think where I would go as another suggestion of another question to ask rather than is it time to euthanize?
What other things can be is it time for?
I would say it's time to start monitoring your pet's quality of life.
(15:13):
The sad thing is that most quality of life surveys are only done shortly before an animal is about to be euthanized.
The survey is suggested to a pet parent to go through the questions, to answer the question, is it time to euthanize?
Then based on your answers and your observations of your pet's physical condition, that's supposed to help you make the decision to euthanize.
(15:39):
I think it's a very it's a very sad, limiting way to look at quality of life because quality of life is ongoing for all of us.
We have better days than others whether we're in great health or not.
So do our pets and if we are not comfortable monitoring our pet's physical condition, our pet's daily behavior (15:52):
they're eating, they're drinking, and how much joy they're taking in their life with us and any other furry animals in the family then we're always going to have to rely on someone else to determine this for us.
(16:15):
So I'd really like to see more pet parents asking the question of, "What is my pet's quality of life?" "How can I monitor that in an ongoing way over the next months, weeks, days, whatever it might be?"
Because that can certainly help them as they monitor things, they might find there's things they can do.
(16:36):
There are actually things they can do more of something or less of something else.
In a way we monitor quality of life every day, especially with a pet that has anything that we're worried about.
It's the first thing we look at in the morning but it's one thing to observe, make observations about our pet's quality of life.
(16:57):
It's another to be making notes once or twice a week of what you are observing so you then can see patterns and identify patterns to talk to your vet about.
So, for me, I would think reframing the question, "Is it time for what?" I would definitely put quality of life assessing on a regular basis as something to do.
Gail Pope (17:16):
Wow, that was a really great overview.
Karen Wylie (17:19):
We just happen to have a lovely quality of life assessment called "Living".
Gail Pope (17:23):
Yes, we do.
In fact, that's the point that I would make because quality of life at all stages of life is important.
Very often I find in conversation that— it just seems so clear to me.
We are talking about quality of life for living but then we can also talk about quality of life for dying and much of BrightHaven's "Menu for Healing" developed into the two different menus.
(17:48):
They're fairly similar but they are different because the quality of life for living is a little different and it will adjust to dying.
So to me it all comes down again to education and yes, talking to your vet, talking to other practitioners and making notes.
For me, I must say, I'm not very good at note taking.
I see things and then a couple of days later, I think, "Ooh, I should have written that down now. When was it?"
(18:13):
But over many years, I took very good notes because I had so many animals and I couldn't allow my brain to get muddled.
When I was talking to my vets, that made it easy because I could go back to a particular date when a symptom started and tell them how it had developed, how long it had been going on, all sorts of different questions which it's putting the puzzle together.
(18:35):
So definitely note taking is of huge importance.
Karen Wylie (18:39):
Yes, especially if whatever's going on with your pet is something you have no experience with and you're watching it for the first time.
You have a lot to learn and taking some notes can really be helpful to you.
Before we continue, the "Living Quality of Life Assessment" as well as the "Peaceful Quality of Dying Assessment" tools are both free and on the BrightPathForPets.com website.
(19:02):
If you're interested in either or both of those, please visit our website and download them for free.
We'll put the links to both of them in the show notes.
So one of the things that we notice with our pets, of course, we're looking at appetite, we're looking at mobility, the energy they have or don't.
But one of the things we often can see in pets, even if they are declining and in some stage of dying, is that many of them are still experiencing joy.
(19:31):
So can you speak a little bit about how you see joy playing into quality of life care?
Gail Pope (19:37):
Goodness.
I think Joy is something that is very subtle or it can be very obvious.
It's not always easily recognizable.
I think a lot depends on the relationship between parent and animal.
It can be a look in the expression, the eyes light up for a treat and you live with— I think it all comes back to energy because joy has to be produced by energy.
(20:02):
Towards the end of life as our energy is declining, I think the kinds of joy we've been used to seeing a joyful dog leaping and barking waiting to get his leash on and go for a walk it's very different from a dog who's winding down towards the end of his life who doesn't have that life energy to demand that he gets up and goes for a walk.
(20:23):
And yet he can still show joy in a smile, in an expression.
You know what I mean?
You can put your hand out and a cat can, a dying animal can express joy— just doing this against your hand, that's joy.
Karen Wylie (20:36):
It can be simple or very obvious like you're saying but it's essential to all of us with our human loved ones and our relationships with them, as well as our relationships with our pet.
We experience joy with our pets as they do with us.
That's why we included joy in the "Living Quality of Life Assessment" because it's quality of life is more than what's physical.
(21:00):
So what else could it be time for?
You've talked about feeding, starvation issues.
I guess we'd say hydration would be included there.
Gail Pope (21:07):
It's the same thing, yes.
Karen Wylie (21:08):
Just because a dog is not excited about taking a walk anymore or can't walk the same old distance, doesn't mean that there aren't some adaptations that could be taking place.
So what other ways could I ensure that we still enjoy some aspect of our walks, that part of our day that we've always enjoyed and my pet has always enjoyed?
Gail Pope (21:30):
Again, it's all about adjusting.
It's adjusting to how the flow of life and living is going and decreasing and with our animals.
If we have, actually a cat or a dog, mostly dogs obviously, who have always enjoyed going for a walk then when they don't have the energy to go for a walk, you start off with a stroller and just bring it with you.
(21:52):
So that if they're obviously getting tired even after just a few yards, you get them used to going into the stroller or you take the top of the stroller for a big dog so they can stretch out and they've got a cart to go in.
Little by little— you know your animal, you know what things they have enjoyed.
So when you find them not able to experience those things, then that's where— what is it they say "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." That's what we have to do.
(22:19):
If you really enjoyed being on the countertop, tipping his head under the cold water dripping.
Some cats absolutely love to do that.
When he can no longer reach the countertop, maybe you actually take the time not to give him ways that he might fall down if he did it himself, but to actually be with him, allow him to do it, and wait with him, and then pop him back down again.
(22:41):
That's brought a little joy.
There are all sorts of little things that knowing your animal, you can't really advise it for other people because it's all so personal to that relationship.
Karen Wylie (22:51):
Sounds like a an experienced cat mom who may have lifted up a few, one or two cats in her lifetime to enjoy that running faucet.
Gail Pope (22:59):
Exactly!
And a fountain on the floor that is an open fountain that has the old fashioned flow of water.
Cats and dogs love running water and so very often they may not be able to run or jump anymore but they'll just sit for long periods of time.
They'll take a little drink but they love to watch that water flowing.
It really is all about us digging deep to actually work out what are they going to enjoy
(23:25):
.Karen Wylie: And that is the essence of hospice care for people or pets living until the last breath.
Yes, making each day as good as it can be for both of you.
Karen Wylie (23:36):
And knowing it's going to be different every day.
Gail Pope (23:38):
It changes for both the human and the animal all the way through.
Respecting your own anticipatory grief and recognizing it and actually taking the time to spend more valuable time with your pet.
Sit down and just be with them a lot more than maybe you did before.
It's precious time and I think very often we don't look at it as grief but they are hand in hand and very healing.
(24:04):
It really affects the kind of grief that you have after the loss— after the death.
Karen Wylie (24:08):
That is one of the most wonderful aspects of hospice care for me— is the time that I have with my pets because it does allow me to begin thinking about what it's going to be like without them while cherishing every moment I do have with them.
Gail Pope (24:23):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (24:25):
It is a way to begin to prepare a much gentle and easier way.
Gail Pope (24:29):
As humans, we spend probably most of our lives in the future planning, thinking, what we're going to do next, even in the next 10 minutes.
That when we're with a being who is approaching the end of life, we tend to step out of that mindset, or we should, and we certainly should try.
If we can't, if it's difficult but we have to come back into again being in the moment with them rather than planning what we're going to cook for dinner or whatever we're going to do tomorrow.
(24:57):
Let be actually present in the here and now because this is the precious time I may not have tomorrow.
None of us may have tomorrow.
So it's very valuable time.
Karen Wylie (25:07):
It's a very valuable time and a very meaningful time that families can discover if they walk a hospice path with their pets.
Give themselves and their pets more time by asking all these additional questions of "How they can adapt day to day?"
"What is their pet enjoying?"
What is still good?
(25:27):
What is still positive?"
As opposed to that fear of missing that magic moment when euthanasia should be happening, especially when we have no idea if pain and suffering will occur or when that might be.
There's so many unknowns.
Was there anything you would like to say as we begin bringing this conversation to a close?
Gail Pope (25:50):
The one thing that occurred to me as you were just talking was the word fear.
I think fear is at the root of all of our journeys towards the end of life because we do have fear of the unknown that's ahead of us.
Fear of what's ahead of not only us but the beings that we love.
I guess that comes down again to education.
(26:11):
The more we learn, the more we understand about the processes of birthing, of living, of dying, transition, the more we actually learn— become educated.
There is so much information to be learned about end of life issues and there are many animals waiting to teach us too.
Karen Wylie (26:32):
That is so true.
You learn something different from each and every one of them.
Gail Pope (26:36):
Yes, about ourselves as much as anything else.
Karen Wylie (26:40):
Absolutely.
I guess the next time you find yourself panicking about, "Is it time?", as Gail's saying, need to stop and remember the question itself is based on fear and try to get a handle on that.
Your pet's body does know how to die, just as yours does.
As we've talked about, not every disease brings suffering.
(27:00):
So instead of, "Is it time?"
Ask yourself, "Is it time for what?"
And that's when we're looking at identifying what pain could look like for your pet or when it might occur, and you get that information from your vet. So that's a good conversation.
You have access to quality of life assessments to help you begin keeping track of how things are going day to day, week to week for you and your pet.
(27:25):
And I guess from there, it's just making those daily adjustments in care, right?
Gail?
Every day being a little different.
Gail Pope (27:31):
Yep.
I could end up by saying what I always say about almost everything we talk.
Karen Wylie (27:36):
I know what it's going to be.
Gail Pope (27:37):
You know what it's going to be.
Really, but it's true, it is all about baby steps and love.
They go together in every aspect of being.
Karen Wylie (27:46):
Keeping that in mind does pull you back from the cliff's edge and put you back on the path.
What we've been calling the Bright Path which is the path of living, not rushing to make changes.
And so again, if you'd like to download any of our free surveys for quality of life assessment or the peaceful quality of dying assessment you'll find that on the BrightPathForPets.com website.
(28:10):
In the coming weeks we'll be talking a little bit more about hospice care as a middle path that is often not talked about but it's what happens between diagnosis and euthanasia and there's really a lot to say about it.
We're going to be having just a few conversations on that topic.
So thank you for being with us today, and we hope that we'll see you again next week.
(28:32):
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (28:34):
Goodbye.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(29:10):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here, as always, with my dear friend Gail Pope.
Today we're going to discuss a question that just about every pet parent we've ever spoken to about End of Life Care.
Has asked themselves at any time and that is how will I know when it's time?
(01:14):
We often say it in whispers.
Sometimes we're tossing and turning in bed, thinking about how to answer that question.
If we have an aging or ill pet.
Very often we're typing our questions into Dr. Google and I checked on those last night just to see all the common ones rising to the top:
"How do I know when it's time to put my dog down?"
(01:35):
"What are the signs my cat is suffering?"
"Is it time to euthanize if my dog won't eat?"
"How will I know when my pet is ready to go?"
So as you can see, there's a lot of various phrasing of these thoughts and these questions, but they all have this common denominator of (01:45):
"Is it time?"
If you have felt or thought those questions to yourself, you're certainly not alone.
Because there's one thing about all those types of questions, and that is that they're terrifying.
It makes us feel like there's just one magic moment and that if we miss it by a day or even a few hours, that we somehow have failed our beloved babies.
(02:16):
So it's no wonder that so many of us panic.
The question of is it time is very much connected to the fear of pain and suffering.
The slogan "Better a day too early than a day too late" ties into that same fear that if you don't act soon enough, you may have failed your pet or you may have not prevented suffering or pain in time.
(02:39):
But our vets don't have a crystal ball that's any more accurate than your own sense of what is right for your pet.
Because none of us can predict exactly when suffering or pain is going to begin.
That's the catch 22 for all of us about when we're being encouraged to act early to avoid suffering because most of the time suffering has not begun.
(03:01):
So Gail, you've been at the bedside of so many of your animals at BrightHaven, as well as supporting families who have this fear and often find themselves asking this question.
Can you take a minute to address if the dying process automatically means pain and suffering?
Gail Pope (03:20):
You do like to ask simple questions, don't you?
Karen Wylie (03:23):
I believe in starting off with the easiest thing.
Just ease our way into the conversation.
Gail Pope (03:29):
Actually, the overview you just gave, I thought it was wonderful.
However, I was sitting here realizing that it encompassed so much stuff.
Part of my brain was saying, "Oh my God, what's she going to ask me?" "This is terrible.
What am I going to do?"
But I think "Is it time?" sentence on its own is such a broad one.
(03:50):
Maybe we'll come back to it but it encompasses so much.
Is it time to change diet?
Is it time to try a different medicine?
Is it time?
Is it time?
It goes on and on.
But yes, I think pain and suffering without doubt, they're number one on the list for all of us.
Why wouldn't they be?
I think when we have to talk about a topic like this, we must bring the human world and the animal worlds pretty close together because we learn so much from humans at end of life.
(04:22):
That translates to how we can monitor what's going on for our animals too.
At least that's been my experience too with the deaths of my human family and also the deaths of my much larger animal family over many years.
But let's start with pain as far as I'm concerned pain is an everyday thing.
(04:42):
Again, it's this little four letter word.
On top of this it's a huge umbrella of the types of pain and in my mind instantly goes to emotional pain versus physical pain.
They're both strong and difficult but they're very different.
One of the things that I learned early on from human hospice care, in fact, was that dying itself— the process of dying is not painful.
(05:08):
That pain itself is due to the chronic illness.
Generally, pain comes from a chronic situation of illness.
By the time you get towards the end of life, that chronic illness should hopefully have been addressed and any pain resulting from it should be dealt with.
So when a being, I'll say being because humans, animals, we're all beings when a being is approaching the end of life.
(05:34):
If there has been pain in the past, then yes, you need to continue that medication and be watchful to ensure that it's helping.
However, if it hasn't been pain, it's very well documented that the process of dying is not painful.
And I think when I learned that early on, first, I don't think I believed it, and then I started to come down off my ledge.
(05:58):
And really pay attention and realize, "Wow, this is true. This is true."
I think working my way through the acceptance and knitting together, if you like, or pulling apart all the different aspects of pain.
It then took me into the subject of suffering— again, humongous big question.
(06:18):
It has so many different facets to it.
And again, you look at the human world and humans' suffering— oh, so many different diseases.
We attribute the word suffering generally pretty correctly.
That yes, there is suffering involved, emotional suffering as well as physical suffering.
(06:40):
Someone who's confined to a wheelchair and can't feed themselves or do much for themselves.
When you look at some of the stories.
They're absolutely amazing.
But the people involved, Stephen Hawkins was one, Christopher Reeve another.
They led amazing lives all the time.
The perception for anybody else was that, "Oh my God, they're suffering so badly."
(07:02):
So it's very hard to me to judge suffering.
I think for me, very often in my experience, suffering is my experience rather than the animal's experience.
For the most part, humans will be there.
I remember with my mom, the word suffering was, is she suffering?
But she was still vocal.
(07:23):
She was able to talk.
So when I very gently brought up the subject and "how were you feeling?"
She didn't ever say she was suffering when I asked those questions.
So that again, was a very educational time for me to find a balance.
When an animal is dealing with a symptom, acknowledge— that word's in my head.
So let me look at this even further and open it up, "Is it me that's perceiving suffering?"
(07:46):
And is the animal actually feeling it?
It, they're both very difficult subjects.
Karen Wylie (07:51):
Agreed, especially watching our animals decline and how their physiological form changes shape and condition as they decline.
It's a very difficult thing to watch.
It's one thing for us to teach caregivers to be monitoring and keeping notes but as you're talking about the emotional aspect of watching is watching them decline when over so often, over so many years we've taken pride in maintaining their condition wonderfully and shiny coats and happy pets.
(08:25):
And yet as they're declining, that doesn't assume that they're unhappy or as you're saying that they're suffering.
That is where these questions of, "is it time?"
It assumes that there is this magic window of decision making time.
Then the adage that's been developed recently of "Better a day too early than a day too late" does assume that pain and suffering will happen.
(08:50):
It's not really looking at the situation of if pain and suffering may occur or when it might occur but there is an underlying assumption that it will happen, it will occur, and we've got to get in there.
We've got to address it before it happens.
I know that's not where you and I generally go.
Thinking about how we can reframe the, is it time question— "Is it time for what?"
(09:13):
So I think just to tie in first with what you were just addressing, is that the first question we should probably be asking is "What can I ask my vet about any pain or suffering, specifically related to my dog or cat's condition, diagnosis, disease?"
It's not just a catchall phrase for all ailments of dogs or cats, just like it's not for all ailments that humans may experience.
(09:42):
There are certain diseases or certainly stages of disease that may involve some pain but there is some predictability attached to understanding that one disease.
Then understanding how that one person is experiencing it.
I think if we tie this down to our one pet and what our one pet needs asking our vets for help in identifying "What's pain going to look like in this situation?"
(10:09):
"What should I be watching for?" To me, that seems like one of the questions rather than "is it time to euthanize?"
But rather, "What else is it time for?" It's time to ask your vet for some input, help you understand better.
If the situation can be painful at some point, "How will I know, what should I be looking for in my pet?"
(10:29):
That seems like at least one place to start.
What are some other questions you think pet parents could be asking that takes this question of "Is it time to euthanize?" And starts reframing it with, "Is it time for some other questions to ask for some other things to do?"
Gail Pope (10:47):
Oh my gosh, yes.
The first thing that springs to mind is the topic of starvation and that goes hand in hand with dehydration.
They're always, I think, I guess we all have a fear at some level or other of actual death and dying.
We don't know what to expect.
So I think when someone we love stops eating or their appetite totally changes, then we panic.
(11:12):
We want to make them eat.
Even though the caregiver may actually understand and know that their animal is in or reaching the dying process, they know in their brain it's okay not to eat.
However, in daily life it's one of the ways that we show love.
Finding a human or an animal who says, "Thank you, but no, I'm not hungry."
(11:36):
Then we rush off and we try all sorts of different foods but our goal— it's we are so driven.
Let me find something you would like to eat.
In the early days of the process, then yes very often there will be something different and they'll take a few bites and you get excited, "That was great!" and they've only had a few bites but they loved it.
So we are learning all the time about that.
(11:57):
I think for me, the one thing that has helped or educated me most in the process of understanding these issues is understanding and I guess it comes down to education.
The more you understand about the process of dying— a lot of people they visualize life and then death but they don't open up this piece in the middle which is a much longer piece.
(12:22):
Dying isn't going to take place in generally, unless it's an acute one in just a few days.
It's a period of time and it's a gradual process.
Here I go again talking about the other doctor in the room because Mother Nature designed this process and it is a process.
If you're in an acute situation and you die, that's it.
(12:44):
That's the end.
However if you allow the process to unfold, it's very well orchestrated.
Eating and drinking very gradually fade away because the body needs to die.
It's not trying to live, it doesn't need the energy to stay alive.
It needs to allow everything to dissipate so that it can die.
It can complete its process.
Karen Wylie (13:05):
It's a very different process than a puppy or kitten growing up or maintaining the adult in prime condition.
It's an entirely different way to view what our pets need.
And it's a reversal, isn't it?
As we come, it's a whole—
Gail Pope (13:22):
Everything's gearing up to go forward as we are leaving, it's winding down.
That's a beautiful analogy.
Karen Wylie (13:28):
Yes.
At the same time, most of us are trying to stop that leaving process.
So because we don't want them to go, we want them to stay forever and yet they can't.
So it becomes this kind of a dance in our mind and with our pet of back and forth and back and forth.
I think this is of course something we will be addressing in the coming weeks but hospice care as a middle road, as a middle way, a third path, a third way.
(13:56):
Because it seems that when we take our pets to the vet, they're really wonderful with the diagnostics of trying to figure out what's going on.
God knows there's a lot of tests out there and it's very costly to go down multiple roads to try to figure out what's going on.
Then there's been incredible progress in terms of treatments that can be used to try to fix something, to try to stop decline, to remove a tumor, that kind of thing.
(14:25):
After that if the animal's condition or disease cannot be stopped and they continue to decline, it seems like the only suggestion that most vets have in their toolbox or their arsenal is euthanasia.
So there's this big and often be a long process, just like you're talking about that it's not like a Hollywood movie where we see humans in a deathbed with a couple final words and they, "That's it".
(14:50):
That's not how most human death occurs.
Certainly not with our pets either.
It can go on for days, weeks, or months as they decline over a period of time.
I think where I would go as another suggestion of another question to ask rather than is it time to euthanize?
What other things can be is it time for?
I would say it's time to start monitoring your pet's quality of life.
(15:13):
The sad thing is that most quality of life surveys are only done shortly before an animal is about to be euthanized.
The survey is suggested to a pet parent to go through the questions, to answer the question, is it time to euthanize?
Then based on your answers and your observations of your pet's physical condition, that's supposed to help you make the decision to euthanize.
(15:39):
I think it's a very it's a very sad, limiting way to look at quality of life because quality of life is ongoing for all of us.
We have better days than others whether we're in great health or not.
So do our pets and if we are not comfortable monitoring our pet's physical condition, our pet's daily behavior (15:52):
they're eating, they're drinking, and how much joy they're taking in their life with us and any other furry animals in the family then we're always going to have to rely on someone else to determine this for us.
(16:15):
So I'd really like to see more pet parents asking the question of, "What is my pet's quality of life?" "How can I monitor that in an ongoing way over the next months, weeks, days, whatever it might be?"
Because that can certainly help them as they monitor things, they might find there's things they can do.
(16:36):
There are actually things they can do more of something or less of something else.
In a way we monitor quality of life every day, especially with a pet that has anything that we're worried about.
It's the first thing we look at in the morning but it's one thing to observe, make observations about our pet's quality of life.
(16:57):
It's another to be making notes once or twice a week of what you are observing so you then can see patterns and identify patterns to talk to your vet about.
So, for me, I would think reframing the question, "Is it time for what?" I would definitely put quality of life assessing on a regular basis as something to do.
Gail Pope (17:16):
Wow, that was a really great overview.
Karen Wylie (17:19):
We just happen to have a lovely quality of life assessment called "Living".
Gail Pope (17:23):
Yes, we do.
In fact, that's the point that I would make because quality of life at all stages of life is important.
Very often I find in conversation that— it just seems so clear to me.
We are talking about quality of life for living but then we can also talk about quality of life for dying and much of BrightHaven's "Menu for Healing" developed into the two different menus.
(17:48):
They're fairly similar but they are different because the quality of life for living is a little different and it will adjust to dying.
So to me it all comes down again to education and yes, talking to your vet, talking to other practitioners and making notes.
For me, I must say, I'm not very good at note taking.
I see things and then a couple of days later, I think, "Ooh, I should have written that down now. When was it?"
(18:13):
But over many years, I took very good notes because I had so many animals and I couldn't allow my brain to get muddled.
When I was talking to my vets, that made it easy because I could go back to a particular date when a symptom started and tell them how it had developed, how long it had been going on, all sorts of different questions which it's putting the puzzle together.
(18:35):
So definitely note taking is of huge importance.
Karen Wylie (18:39):
Yes, especially if whatever's going on with your pet is something you have no experience with and you're watching it for the first time.
You have a lot to learn and taking some notes can really be helpful to you.
Before we continue, the "Living Quality of Life Assessment" as well as the "Peaceful Quality of Dying Assessment" tools are both free and on the BrightPathForPets.com website.
(19:02):
If you're interested in either or both of those, please visit our website and download them for free.
We'll put the links to both of them in the show notes.
So one of the things that we notice with our pets, of course, we're looking at appetite, we're looking at mobility, the energy they have or don't.
But one of the things we often can see in pets, even if they are declining and in some stage of dying, is that many of them are still experiencing joy.
(19:31):
So can you speak a little bit about how you see joy playing into quality of life care?
Gail Pope (19:37):
Goodness.
I think Joy is something that is very subtle or it can be very obvious.
It's not always easily recognizable.
I think a lot depends on the relationship between parent and animal.
It can be a look in the expression, the eyes light up for a treat and you live with— I think it all comes back to energy because joy has to be produced by energy.
(20:02):
Towards the end of life as our energy is declining, I think the kinds of joy we've been used to seeing a joyful dog leaping and barking waiting to get his leash on and go for a walk it's very different from a dog who's winding down towards the end of his life who doesn't have that life energy to demand that he gets up and goes for a walk.
(20:23):
And yet he can still show joy in a smile, in an expression.
You know what I mean?
You can put your hand out and a cat can, a dying animal can express joy— just doing this against your hand, that's joy.
Karen Wylie (20:36):
It can be simple or very obvious like you're saying but it's essential to all of us with our human loved ones and our relationships with them, as well as our relationships with our pet.
We experience joy with our pets as they do with us.
That's why we included joy in the "Living Quality of Life Assessment" because it's quality of life is more than what's physical.
(21:00):
So what else could it be time for?
You've talked about feeding, starvation issues.
I guess we'd say hydration would be included there.
Gail Pope (21:07):
It's the same thing, yes.
Karen Wylie (21:08):
Just because a dog is not excited about taking a walk anymore or can't walk the same old distance, doesn't mean that there aren't some adaptations that could be taking place.
So what other ways could I ensure that we still enjoy some aspect of our walks, that part of our day that we've always enjoyed and my pet has always enjoyed?
Gail Pope (21:30):
Again, it's all about adjusting.
It's adjusting to how the flow of life and living is going and decreasing and with our animals.
If we have, actually a cat or a dog, mostly dogs obviously, who have always enjoyed going for a walk then when they don't have the energy to go for a walk, you start off with a stroller and just bring it with you.
(21:52):
So that if they're obviously getting tired even after just a few yards, you get them used to going into the stroller or you take the top of the stroller for a big dog so they can stretch out and they've got a cart to go in.
Little by little— you know your animal, you know what things they have enjoyed.
So when you find them not able to experience those things, then that's where— what is it they say "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." That's what we have to do.
(22:19):
If you really enjoyed being on the countertop, tipping his head under the cold water dripping.
Some cats absolutely love to do that.
When he can no longer reach the countertop, maybe you actually take the time not to give him ways that he might fall down if he did it himself, but to actually be with him, allow him to do it, and wait with him, and then pop him back down again.
(22:41):
That's brought a little joy.
There are all sorts of little things that knowing your animal, you can't really advise it for other people because it's all so personal to that relationship.
Karen Wylie (22:51):
Sounds like a an experienced cat mom who may have lifted up a few, one or two cats in her lifetime to enjoy that running faucet.
Gail Pope (22:59):
Exactly!
And a fountain on the floor that is an open fountain that has the old fashioned flow of water.
Cats and dogs love running water and so very often they may not be able to run or jump anymore but they'll just sit for long periods of time.
They'll take a little drink but they love to watch that water flowing.
It really is all about us digging deep to actually work out what are they going to enjoy
(23:25):
.Karen Wylie: And that is the essence of hospice care for people or pets living until the last breath.
Yes, making each day as good as it can be for both of you.
Karen Wylie (23:36):
And knowing it's going to be different every day.
Gail Pope (23:38):
It changes for both the human and the animal all the way through.
Respecting your own anticipatory grief and recognizing it and actually taking the time to spend more valuable time with your pet.
Sit down and just be with them a lot more than maybe you did before.
It's precious time and I think very often we don't look at it as grief but they are hand in hand and very healing.
(24:04):
It really affects the kind of grief that you have after the loss— after the death.
Karen Wylie (24:08):
That is one of the most wonderful aspects of hospice care for me— is the time that I have with my pets because it does allow me to begin thinking about what it's going to be like without them while cherishing every moment I do have with them.
Gail Pope (24:23):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (24:25):
It is a way to begin to prepare a much gentle and easier way.
Gail Pope (24:29):
As humans, we spend probably most of our lives in the future planning, thinking, what we're going to do next, even in the next 10 minutes.
That when we're with a being who is approaching the end of life, we tend to step out of that mindset, or we should, and we certainly should try.
If we can't, if it's difficult but we have to come back into again being in the moment with them rather than planning what we're going to cook for dinner or whatever we're going to do tomorrow.
(24:57):
Let be actually present in the here and now because this is the precious time I may not have tomorrow.
None of us may have tomorrow.
So it's very valuable time.
Karen Wylie (25:07):
It's a very valuable time and a very meaningful time that families can discover if they walk a hospice path with their pets.
Give themselves and their pets more time by asking all these additional questions of "How they can adapt day to day?"
"What is their pet enjoying?"
What is still good?
(25:27):
What is still positive?"
As opposed to that fear of missing that magic moment when euthanasia should be happening, especially when we have no idea if pain and suffering will occur or when that might be.
There's so many unknowns.
Was there anything you would like to say as we begin bringing this conversation to a close?
Gail Pope (25:50):
The one thing that occurred to me as you were just talking was the word fear.
I think fear is at the root of all of our journeys towards the end of life because we do have fear of the unknown that's ahead of us.
Fear of what's ahead of not only us but the beings that we love.
I guess that comes down again to education.
(26:11):
The more we learn, the more we understand about the processes of birthing, of living, of dying, transition, the more we actually learn— become educated.
There is so much information to be learned about end of life issues and there are many animals waiting to teach us too.
Karen Wylie (26:32):
That is so true.
You learn something different from each and every one of them.
Gail Pope (26:36):
Yes, about ourselves as much as anything else.
Karen Wylie (26:40):
Absolutely.
I guess the next time you find yourself panicking about, "Is it time?", as Gail's saying, need to stop and remember the question itself is based on fear and try to get a handle on that.
Your pet's body does know how to die, just as yours does.
As we've talked about, not every disease brings suffering.
(27:00):
So instead of, "Is it time?"
Ask yourself, "Is it time for what?"
And that's when we're looking at identifying what pain could look like for your pet or when it might occur, and you get that information from your vet. So that's a good conversation.
You have access to quality of life assessments to help you begin keeping track of how things are going day to day, week to week for you and your pet.
(27:25):
And I guess from there, it's just making those daily adjustments in care, right?
Gail?
Every day being a little different.
Gail Pope (27:31):
Yep.
I could end up by saying what I always say about almost everything we talk.
Karen Wylie (27:36):
I know what it's going to be.
Gail Pope (27:37):
You know what it's going to be.
Really, but it's true, it is all about baby steps and love.
They go together in every aspect of being.
Karen Wylie (27:46):
Keeping that in mind does pull you back from the cliff's edge and put you back on the path.
What we've been calling the Bright Path which is the path of living, not rushing to make changes.
And so again, if you'd like to download any of our free surveys for quality of life assessment or the peaceful quality of dying assessment you'll find that on the BrightPathForPets.com website.
(28:10):
In the coming weeks we'll be talking a little bit more about hospice care as a middle path that is often not talked about but it's what happens between diagnosis and euthanasia and there's really a lot to say about it.
We're going to be having just a few conversations on that topic.
So thank you for being with us today, and we hope that we'll see you again next week.
(28:32):
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (28:34):
Goodbye.
Thank you.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(29:10):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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