July 30, 2025 • 25 mins
What happens when there’s no cure—but life still has meaning? When people enter hospice, there's an understanding that death is near but also that life continues in meaningful ways. But when it comes to our beloved animals, end-of-life conversations are often rushed, and the only option presented is euthanasia.
In this honest and deeply compassionate conversation, Karen and Gail explore what happens when medical options run out—but love and presence remain. They talk about their own personal experiences of supporting natural dying in both pets and people, what it really means to “wait too long” or “go too soon,” and how home hospice can become a sacred act of connection, not just a crisis response.
This episode will validate the doubts, regrets, hopes, and quiet courage of every caregiver who has ever wondered: Am I doing the right thing?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie joined as always by Gail Pope.
Today we decided that we're going to talk a little bit about how we approach end of life for humans and also how we approach end of life for our pets.
(01:11):
Because there are some similarities and of course many differences as well.
Gail, as usual, I'm going to give you the first word.
Not to mention the last word generally speaking.
The pressure's always on.
How would you like to start us off in our approach here at how we approach end of life for humans and how we approach end of life for pets?
Gail Pope (01:37):
It's such a big subject, such a big subject.
To me and I know I bring this up over and over again, but it begins with the word Death.
The fear that as humans in our culture, we've developed such a fear for it.
I think the human world has done a heck of a lot better than we have in the animal world in many ways with the advent of hospice care for humans.
(02:02):
And even that is still not terribly well received in some areas because people have grown to see the word hospice as meaning death and they want to make that go away.
So that is very difficult.
Of course, the other elephant in the room, if you like, is the term euthanasia and the ending of a life and how that happens.
(02:25):
Of course, that's obviously much more familiar to the animal world than the human world.
What do you think?
Karen Wylie (02:32):
I think that is one of the absolute core issues of what is so different in our approaches because when hospice is allowed to happen for humans.
It's not always allowed because maybe the patient themselves has no interest in it because it means death and they don't want to go down that road.
(02:54):
They think they're fine.
Maybe it's family members who feel that hospice is equated with death.
So perhaps they're denying what stage of illness or dying their loved one is in.
But there's also the issue of the medical team in human hospice or I should just say in human medical care.
(03:17):
A lot of medical professionals don't make the referral to hospice because they don't want to be the one to bring it up to the family.
Supposedly about half of the humans who could qualify for human hospice are never referred to it.
Then of those that are referred, they're referred late.
I think I've mentioned this before in some of our conversations that it's called "Late to Care"— it's a phenomenon that is documented.
(03:45):
So about ⅓ of those that actually do make it to hospice are only there for about two and a half weeks because they're referred so late and get into it so late.
Gail Pope (03:56):
And it's that fear of the word again, isn't it?
You just taken me back to where my journey into the world of hospice began.
In actual fact, I started, oh my goodness, BrightHaven became incorporated in 1993.
I think we'd been doing the work for about five years but it was really around the mid-1990s that I became familiar with death since we specialized in senior, special needs, medically challenged animals.
(04:29):
I hadn't even thought about the fact that death would be involved but it happened upon us.
Over the years as we trod the path to learning about death and dying with hundreds of animals and getting to really actually absorb the guiding principle of human hospice care which is not to hasten or postpone death.
(04:51):
I’d become used to a very holistic way of looking at end of life— a very natural path but also in the acceptance of euthanasia.
So one day there I was sitting in my office at BrightHaven and the phone rang and the voice said, "May I speak to Gail Pope?"
And I said, "Yes, this is she speaking."
(05:12):
And this was a veterinarian, a very good friend of mine for many years now, Ella Bittel.
She said, "Oh, I'm so happy to get you on the phone. I'd love to talk to you about a new organization that's forming for animal hospice care."
She was really upbeat and excited and I said, "Oh, I'm very sorry. I don't know where you get your information from but I know nothing about hospice care." And I was quite cold or cool at least.
(05:41):
And she said, "Hold on.
I've been told that BrightHaven, you are all about end of life care and the dying process.
Your animals mostly die naturally.
I don't understand how I've got all this wrong."
And I said, "No, hospice is all about dying. Now, here at BrightHaven, we are all about living. We're all about living well to the very end of life."
(06:03):
So that's where my journey began, so I can see it so clearly in the world now even.
If we approach the subject very gently without using that word then it's much more acceptable.
But at the bottom of that is that word death which still becomes unacceptable.
(06:25):
People don't want to talk about it but it's something— we plan for birth, we plan for living, and we should be planning for dying too for our humans as well as our animals.
Karen Wylie (06:37):
And yet we avoid even thinking about it or acknowledging that it could be happening.
I think I mentioned this to you a few years ago right after we had met, is that I never thought about what I was doing with my animals at end of life as hospice care either.
It never crossed my mind.
(06:57):
I just tried and did everything I could to allow them to die on their own terms.
When they wanted to die, when they were ready to die, when their body had didn't have anything left to allow them to stay and if that meant I had to euthanize because of pain issues or a sudden detour happened, I would do that.
(07:23):
Because I'm grateful that euthanasia is there as an option.
I'm just like grateful that there's morphine for humans for pain at end of life as well.
So it's not that everything is "either/or" but I just was approaching it much like you in trying to honor the wishes of the animal's life— when they were ready to go, let them decide.
(07:54):
I just never thought of it as hospice care.
I've never in all these years, had a veterinarian ask me if I knew anything about hospice care or when they would be telling me the predicament my pet was in with whatever test results had come in and what might be happening in the future.
(08:15):
I've never had anyone mention animal hospice.
Gail Pope (08:20):
Still a very slowly growing philosophy in the animal world.
It's still struggling a lot with humans with the late to care.
My husband was one of those statistics, Richard.
Neither his practitioners nor him were ready to accept the fact that here was this beautiful service that could really be helpful when it was becoming almost impossible to juggle medications and general daily life.
(08:56):
It was very clear that was the time for hospice but he became a late care because he wasn't about to acknowledge that after all the years living in an animal hospice basically.
When faced with it himself, death and dying, he just backed away from it.
Karen Wylie (09:15):
Animal Hospice, at this point,
it seems to be more of an advertising slogan sometimes for veterinarians or their clinics.
Animal hospice seems to be mentioned as a service that is offered by veterinarians and clinics.
Yet, I've heard over and over from our students at Animal Hospice Group going through the curriculum as practitioners themselves, they're very highly sensitized to what Animal Hospice could be.
(09:49):
They go out searching for local clinics that would offer those kind of services and that they could really work with.
They'll be talking about how they call seven clinics that say they offer animal hospice services and in reality, the only service at all related to hospice is offering to come out and do a quality of life evaluation.
(10:18):
But that's in preparation for identifying is the animal ready for euthanasia as opposed...
Gail Pope (10:25):
"When it's time? When is it time?"
Karen Wylie (10:26):
"When is it time?" And really, I remember one student saying they contacted seven clinics before the eighth one would come out and just do home care and talk with them but not plan a euthanasia on site at the same time as the quality of life evaluation.
Another one talked about six clinics being contacted and only the seventh one.
(10:48):
So it goes beyond my own experience when I'm hearing our students describe because I know that they're looking for the same kinds of things that we are— that we want to offer to our own animals.
So it seems that animal hospice is not always the right term because you and I offer home hospice for our own pets.
(11:17):
It seems there's more medical hospice or veterinary hospice.
I don't know that everything we're all doing can be subsumed under animal hospice.
Gail Pope (11:26):
Yes, if only more caregivers could learn more about the hospice philosophy and how it's all about loving care, comfort, dignity, and just being with the patient, for want of a better word, through this last chapter of life.
(11:50):
It can be so beautiful and so meaningful and difficult.
There is a lot to learn, but when you look at the joys, the comfort and the teamwork that surrounds hospice, and it can be done with a very small team.
I think supporting the caregiver is probably in essence the main training because they really are the center.
(12:13):
Although the patient sits at the center, obviously, but the caregiver has to sit side by side with them because they are exactly giving the care.
That's why they're called caregiver and the burden of caregiving.
Whether this be for a patient on two legs or four legs or however many legs— it is difficult emotionally.
(12:33):
There's a lot to learn.
There's a lot of support that can be offered and yet if people don't know about that, so yes, the word hospice has a long way to go.
I wish we could change it.
As again, we say home hospice it is at home and it does create the atmosphere— the loving, homely atmosphere that we would like.
(12:59):
I don't know whether that will ever happen though.
Karen Wylie (13:03):
No, I don't know either.
It is interesting though when you've compare end of life for humans, a natural transition is what is expected.
We watch our human loved ones begin the dying process in a gradual way, where they start not wanting the same foods or as much food then not wanting any foods, not necessarily wanting much hydration either.
(13:34):
They start sleeping more.
Family members and friends gather in preparation and they hold vigil.
They're getting to say what needs to be said and we consider that all a very positive process and outcome for humans to die naturally.
Morphine is typically available.
(13:56):
If pain is perceived to be part of that decline then it is addressed.
But they're not just given morphine to prevent anything from ever happening.
They use morphine or other pain meds to address something that's happening.
Then when we look at our pets approaching end of life, we seem to get to the same part of the same point that humans get to where no one's mentioning hospice but there are no treatments left to suggest.
(14:31):
No procedures that would really be helpful.
Then there's this chasm, there's this huge gap.
For our animals, it seems the only thing that's suggested at that point is to schedule their death— to schedule euthanasia.
And yet, the animal could still be enjoying their life.
(14:52):
The fact that there's no cure does not necessarily mean that their life should be terminated at that time.
That's where I think our pet parents have such a difficult time because they don't know what's possible.
If their veterinarian, who they've been depending on, to guide them through the treatments and the procedures of what's the best way to handle this and make sure the pet is not in pain and so forth.
(15:20):
Then suddenly there's the end of the road and the only thing that is offered is euthanasia.
That is so different from how it is for humans where euthanasia is a hard thing to get for ourselves as humans.
As you were saying right before we started and you were talking about the fact that generally speaking, a human has to administer the dosages of euthanasia medications themselves.
(15:53):
It's one of the reasons so many of them choose to die earlier than they should really have to because they're worried about reaching a point where they would not be physically able to take the medications themselves.
So we definitely seem to have lots of messy stuff for both humans and how we handle our pets.
Gail Pope (16:15):
It's sad, it really is.
I guess a lot of it comes back to religious and spirituality beliefs.
The other doctor that I often mention, Mother Nature.
Living and dying should be natural.
It shouldn't be weird to have death happening naturally.
It shouldn't be but it has grown to become that.
(16:39):
We are a culture that is scared of what we don't know.
I don't think that's ever going to change unless you've experienced your life after death as some people possibly have.
We don't know that we're hitting a brick wall and then we're gone.
So there is fear and that's always going to be there.
(17:01):
But I think for me anyway, just being present at the dying processes of so many animals and some humans too,
it doesn't appear to me that it's that difficult.
It's a process of stepping out of the physical body that you are living in when the time is right.
(17:23):
I don't know, we have a long way to go and I don't know that we're going to solve it all today.
But I think just if we alone can educate more caregivers in the journey itself— what's involved in the journey and obviously pain, suffering.
They're the questions that come up at end of life that everybody is worried about.
(17:49):
We could start talking about them now but we could probably talk for another three hours on this subject, couldn't we?
Karen Wylie (17:55):
I think one thing we haven't yet spoken about which I think is essential to this kind of conversation, is that human end of life, generally speaking, the human who is dying is conscious enough and verbal enough to be communicating what they want, what their final wishes are.
(18:18):
Hopefully the family members know as well.
Now we know that doesn't always happen.
What someone may have thought they wanted may be different when it's them laying in that bed.
But with our pets, we're always in the situation where we're trying to do what's best for them and we're trying to understand what they might want.
(18:40):
That is based on us knowing our pets as well as we do after however many years we're fortunate enough to have them in our lives.
But for me, I always think that's one of the great benefits of providing hospice care at home for my pets.
There comes a point in their natural dying process where they begin to understand that they're not getting better.
(19:12):
Whereas sometimes when euthanasia is recommended, it's prior to any point that the animal isn't feeling badly yet because a lot of times euthanasia is to prevent suffering.
It's not necessarily to address suffering that is already happening.
The veterinary oath talks about preventing suffering.
(19:32):
So they're jumping in early to prevent pain that might happen but hasn't yet.
So in a home hospice situation where we are watching day-to-day, ready to address what we see happening— not what might be happening but what we're seeing happening in front of us.
(19:53):
I usually see my pets start to turn a corner where they do start to understand that they're not going to get better.
For me, that's very helpful to let go when I see them changing their approach to their own death.
Then it's not me making the decision for them but I'm supporting the decision I see them making.
Gail Pope (20:21):
And that's something that we see in humans too.
It's very much a parallel because I'm just remembering when my mom was reaching the end of her life.
She followed the trajectory that you're talking about exactly.
There came a time when she was a little different.
She was a little more comfortable.
She didn't want to eat anymore.
She didn't want to drink and I was absolutely focused on trying to find something she would want.
(20:46):
It's very difficult to give up those things.
But from then forward, she settled into a place of comfort and she wasn't actually taking any morphine.
She wasn't on any drugs at that point.
She entered a state of almost happiness.
She was joyful inside of herself and they talk about hospice patients in bed reaching up.
(21:09):
She would do that.
She would tell me about people who visited and talked to her.
She was dying but she was also in a very comfortable place to be dying.
It wasn't something to be fearful of or panicked about.
And yet I'm human and my mom's dying.
(21:30):
So there was an element of, "Oh my goodness, I wonder what..."
Nothing ever happened.
There wasn't a "What happened?"
And that's what we see with animals.
As their loving caretakers, we are going to have our minds thinking forward as to "This is okay, but what if?"
There are always going to be those questions.
So if we are prepared for something that might need treating as would be in the human world, we can do the same for our animals.
(21:59):
We can be a loving presence for them as they're going through this process because we are not in a state of fear and panic.
Karen Wylie (22:07):
And I have found, as I know you have as well, that providing that care at home over a period of time allows us to go through our grieving with our pet while our pet is still here.
We're still going to grieve when they die and they leave us but
(22:30):
having that opportunity to care for them over days, weeks, months.
Gail Pope (22:35):
It's a gift.
Karen Wylie (22:36):
It's something that softens the blow after they leave us.
That's something generally I find with those who have decided on euthanasia before they were really ready that they have a much harder road to resolving their grief.
(22:57):
They're always the second guessing, "Should I have done this? Should I have kept them longer?" And so forth.
I don't have those same levels of regret when I provide hospice care.
I think that's generally true for those of us who do it more frequently.
It's something I wish everyone had the opportunity to do.
Gail Pope (23:16):
Exactly!
I think, hospice care, it bridges a gap, doesn't it?
It gives you the time to grieve.
It gives you the time to step into acceptance of what's coming.
It gives us time to actually learn what it is to be human perhaps.
Karen Wylie (23:37):
Perhaps and find out that our four footers are not that different from us after all.
Gail Pope (23:44):
No, they're not.
They have so much to teach us, so much to teach us.
Karen Wylie (23:48):
So much to teach us— that all-important pet perspective.
All right.
What do you think?
Have we done ourselves in on this conversation for today?
Gail Pope (23:59):
I think so.
There are so many nooks and crannies in this.
We could dive into so many of these little nooks and crannies.
But no, I think we've done enough for today.
We can revisit various parts of this.
I'm sure we can.
Karen Wylie (24:13):
We can and I'm sure we will too.
With that we'll bring a close to this conversation today and thank you for being with us.
Remind you that Thursdays at 10:00 AM Pacific our time for
Cuppa and Conversation with us.
Any Pet Parent is welcome to join us.
(24:34):
Please visit our BrightPathForPets.com website and right there on that homepage, you'll find information about how to join us on Zoom at 10:00 AM Pacific every Thursday.
With that, we'll say goodbye and thank you.
Goodbye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(24:56):
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(25:28):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Hello and welcome back to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie joined as always by Gail Pope.
Today we decided that we're going to talk a little bit about how we approach end of life for humans and also how we approach end of life for our pets.
(01:11):
Because there are some similarities and of course many differences as well.
Gail, as usual, I'm going to give you the first word.
Not to mention the last word generally speaking.
The pressure's always on.
How would you like to start us off in our approach here at how we approach end of life for humans and how we approach end of life for pets?
Gail Pope (01:37):
It's such a big subject, such a big subject.
To me and I know I bring this up over and over again, but it begins with the word Death.
The fear that as humans in our culture, we've developed such a fear for it.
I think the human world has done a heck of a lot better than we have in the animal world in many ways with the advent of hospice care for humans.
(02:02):
And even that is still not terribly well received in some areas because people have grown to see the word hospice as meaning death and they want to make that go away.
So that is very difficult.
Of course, the other elephant in the room, if you like, is the term euthanasia and the ending of a life and how that happens.
(02:25):
Of course, that's obviously much more familiar to the animal world than the human world.
What do you think?
Karen Wylie (02:32):
I think that is one of the absolute core issues of what is so different in our approaches because when hospice is allowed to happen for humans.
It's not always allowed because maybe the patient themselves has no interest in it because it means death and they don't want to go down that road.
(02:54):
They think they're fine.
Maybe it's family members who feel that hospice is equated with death.
So perhaps they're denying what stage of illness or dying their loved one is in.
But there's also the issue of the medical team in human hospice or I should just say in human medical care.
(03:17):
A lot of medical professionals don't make the referral to hospice because they don't want to be the one to bring it up to the family.
Supposedly about half of the humans who could qualify for human hospice are never referred to it.
Then of those that are referred, they're referred late.
I think I've mentioned this before in some of our conversations that it's called "Late to Care"— it's a phenomenon that is documented.
(03:45):
So about ⅓ of those that actually do make it to hospice are only there for about two and a half weeks because they're referred so late and get into it so late.
Gail Pope (03:56):
And it's that fear of the word again, isn't it?
You just taken me back to where my journey into the world of hospice began.
In actual fact, I started, oh my goodness, BrightHaven became incorporated in 1993.
I think we'd been doing the work for about five years but it was really around the mid-1990s that I became familiar with death since we specialized in senior, special needs, medically challenged animals.
(04:29):
I hadn't even thought about the fact that death would be involved but it happened upon us.
Over the years as we trod the path to learning about death and dying with hundreds of animals and getting to really actually absorb the guiding principle of human hospice care which is not to hasten or postpone death.
(04:51):
I’d become used to a very holistic way of looking at end of life— a very natural path but also in the acceptance of euthanasia.
So one day there I was sitting in my office at BrightHaven and the phone rang and the voice said, "May I speak to Gail Pope?"
And I said, "Yes, this is she speaking."
(05:12):
And this was a veterinarian, a very good friend of mine for many years now, Ella Bittel.
She said, "Oh, I'm so happy to get you on the phone. I'd love to talk to you about a new organization that's forming for animal hospice care."
She was really upbeat and excited and I said, "Oh, I'm very sorry. I don't know where you get your information from but I know nothing about hospice care." And I was quite cold or cool at least.
(05:41):
And she said, "Hold on.
I've been told that BrightHaven, you are all about end of life care and the dying process.
Your animals mostly die naturally.
I don't understand how I've got all this wrong."
And I said, "No, hospice is all about dying. Now, here at BrightHaven, we are all about living. We're all about living well to the very end of life."
(06:03):
So that's where my journey began, so I can see it so clearly in the world now even.
If we approach the subject very gently without using that word then it's much more acceptable.
But at the bottom of that is that word death which still becomes unacceptable.
(06:25):
People don't want to talk about it but it's something— we plan for birth, we plan for living, and we should be planning for dying too for our humans as well as our animals.
Karen Wylie (06:37):
And yet we avoid even thinking about it or acknowledging that it could be happening.
I think I mentioned this to you a few years ago right after we had met, is that I never thought about what I was doing with my animals at end of life as hospice care either.
It never crossed my mind.
(06:57):
I just tried and did everything I could to allow them to die on their own terms.
When they wanted to die, when they were ready to die, when their body had didn't have anything left to allow them to stay and if that meant I had to euthanize because of pain issues or a sudden detour happened, I would do that.
(07:23):
Because I'm grateful that euthanasia is there as an option.
I'm just like grateful that there's morphine for humans for pain at end of life as well.
So it's not that everything is "either/or" but I just was approaching it much like you in trying to honor the wishes of the animal's life— when they were ready to go, let them decide.
(07:54):
I just never thought of it as hospice care.
I've never in all these years, had a veterinarian ask me if I knew anything about hospice care or when they would be telling me the predicament my pet was in with whatever test results had come in and what might be happening in the future.
(08:15):
I've never had anyone mention animal hospice.
Gail Pope (08:20):
Still a very slowly growing philosophy in the animal world.
It's still struggling a lot with humans with the late to care.
My husband was one of those statistics, Richard.
Neither his practitioners nor him were ready to accept the fact that here was this beautiful service that could really be helpful when it was becoming almost impossible to juggle medications and general daily life.
(08:56):
It was very clear that was the time for hospice but he became a late care because he wasn't about to acknowledge that after all the years living in an animal hospice basically.
When faced with it himself, death and dying, he just backed away from it.
Karen Wylie (09:15):
Animal Hospice, at this point,
it seems to be more of an advertising slogan sometimes for veterinarians or their clinics.
Animal hospice seems to be mentioned as a service that is offered by veterinarians and clinics.
Yet, I've heard over and over from our students at Animal Hospice Group going through the curriculum as practitioners themselves, they're very highly sensitized to what Animal Hospice could be.
(09:49):
They go out searching for local clinics that would offer those kind of services and that they could really work with.
They'll be talking about how they call seven clinics that say they offer animal hospice services and in reality, the only service at all related to hospice is offering to come out and do a quality of life evaluation.
(10:18):
But that's in preparation for identifying is the animal ready for euthanasia as opposed...
Gail Pope (10:25):
"When it's time? When is it time?"
Karen Wylie (10:26):
"When is it time?" And really, I remember one student saying they contacted seven clinics before the eighth one would come out and just do home care and talk with them but not plan a euthanasia on site at the same time as the quality of life evaluation.
Another one talked about six clinics being contacted and only the seventh one.
(10:48):
So it goes beyond my own experience when I'm hearing our students describe because I know that they're looking for the same kinds of things that we are— that we want to offer to our own animals.
So it seems that animal hospice is not always the right term because you and I offer home hospice for our own pets.
(11:17):
It seems there's more medical hospice or veterinary hospice.
I don't know that everything we're all doing can be subsumed under animal hospice.
Gail Pope (11:26):
Yes, if only more caregivers could learn more about the hospice philosophy and how it's all about loving care, comfort, dignity, and just being with the patient, for want of a better word, through this last chapter of life.
(11:50):
It can be so beautiful and so meaningful and difficult.
There is a lot to learn, but when you look at the joys, the comfort and the teamwork that surrounds hospice, and it can be done with a very small team.
I think supporting the caregiver is probably in essence the main training because they really are the center.
(12:13):
Although the patient sits at the center, obviously, but the caregiver has to sit side by side with them because they are exactly giving the care.
That's why they're called caregiver and the burden of caregiving.
Whether this be for a patient on two legs or four legs or however many legs— it is difficult emotionally.
(12:33):
There's a lot to learn.
There's a lot of support that can be offered and yet if people don't know about that, so yes, the word hospice has a long way to go.
I wish we could change it.
As again, we say home hospice it is at home and it does create the atmosphere— the loving, homely atmosphere that we would like.
(12:59):
I don't know whether that will ever happen though.
Karen Wylie (13:03):
No, I don't know either.
It is interesting though when you've compare end of life for humans, a natural transition is what is expected.
We watch our human loved ones begin the dying process in a gradual way, where they start not wanting the same foods or as much food then not wanting any foods, not necessarily wanting much hydration either.
(13:34):
They start sleeping more.
Family members and friends gather in preparation and they hold vigil.
They're getting to say what needs to be said and we consider that all a very positive process and outcome for humans to die naturally.
Morphine is typically available.
(13:56):
If pain is perceived to be part of that decline then it is addressed.
But they're not just given morphine to prevent anything from ever happening.
They use morphine or other pain meds to address something that's happening.
Then when we look at our pets approaching end of life, we seem to get to the same part of the same point that humans get to where no one's mentioning hospice but there are no treatments left to suggest.
(14:31):
No procedures that would really be helpful.
Then there's this chasm, there's this huge gap.
For our animals, it seems the only thing that's suggested at that point is to schedule their death— to schedule euthanasia.
And yet, the animal could still be enjoying their life.
(14:52):
The fact that there's no cure does not necessarily mean that their life should be terminated at that time.
That's where I think our pet parents have such a difficult time because they don't know what's possible.
If their veterinarian, who they've been depending on, to guide them through the treatments and the procedures of what's the best way to handle this and make sure the pet is not in pain and so forth.
(15:20):
Then suddenly there's the end of the road and the only thing that is offered is euthanasia.
That is so different from how it is for humans where euthanasia is a hard thing to get for ourselves as humans.
As you were saying right before we started and you were talking about the fact that generally speaking, a human has to administer the dosages of euthanasia medications themselves.
(15:53):
It's one of the reasons so many of them choose to die earlier than they should really have to because they're worried about reaching a point where they would not be physically able to take the medications themselves.
So we definitely seem to have lots of messy stuff for both humans and how we handle our pets.
Gail Pope (16:15):
It's sad, it really is.
I guess a lot of it comes back to religious and spirituality beliefs.
The other doctor that I often mention, Mother Nature.
Living and dying should be natural.
It shouldn't be weird to have death happening naturally.
It shouldn't be but it has grown to become that.
(16:39):
We are a culture that is scared of what we don't know.
I don't think that's ever going to change unless you've experienced your life after death as some people possibly have.
We don't know that we're hitting a brick wall and then we're gone.
So there is fear and that's always going to be there.
(17:01):
But I think for me anyway, just being present at the dying processes of so many animals and some humans too,
it doesn't appear to me that it's that difficult.
It's a process of stepping out of the physical body that you are living in when the time is right.
(17:23):
I don't know, we have a long way to go and I don't know that we're going to solve it all today.
But I think just if we alone can educate more caregivers in the journey itself— what's involved in the journey and obviously pain, suffering.
They're the questions that come up at end of life that everybody is worried about.
(17:49):
We could start talking about them now but we could probably talk for another three hours on this subject, couldn't we?
Karen Wylie (17:55):
I think one thing we haven't yet spoken about which I think is essential to this kind of conversation, is that human end of life, generally speaking, the human who is dying is conscious enough and verbal enough to be communicating what they want, what their final wishes are.
(18:18):
Hopefully the family members know as well.
Now we know that doesn't always happen.
What someone may have thought they wanted may be different when it's them laying in that bed.
But with our pets, we're always in the situation where we're trying to do what's best for them and we're trying to understand what they might want.
(18:40):
That is based on us knowing our pets as well as we do after however many years we're fortunate enough to have them in our lives.
But for me, I always think that's one of the great benefits of providing hospice care at home for my pets.
There comes a point in their natural dying process where they begin to understand that they're not getting better.
(19:12):
Whereas sometimes when euthanasia is recommended, it's prior to any point that the animal isn't feeling badly yet because a lot of times euthanasia is to prevent suffering.
It's not necessarily to address suffering that is already happening.
The veterinary oath talks about preventing suffering.
(19:32):
So they're jumping in early to prevent pain that might happen but hasn't yet.
So in a home hospice situation where we are watching day-to-day, ready to address what we see happening— not what might be happening but what we're seeing happening in front of us.
(19:53):
I usually see my pets start to turn a corner where they do start to understand that they're not going to get better.
For me, that's very helpful to let go when I see them changing their approach to their own death.
Then it's not me making the decision for them but I'm supporting the decision I see them making.
Gail Pope (20:21):
And that's something that we see in humans too.
It's very much a parallel because I'm just remembering when my mom was reaching the end of her life.
She followed the trajectory that you're talking about exactly.
There came a time when she was a little different.
She was a little more comfortable.
She didn't want to eat anymore.
She didn't want to drink and I was absolutely focused on trying to find something she would want.
(20:46):
It's very difficult to give up those things.
But from then forward, she settled into a place of comfort and she wasn't actually taking any morphine.
She wasn't on any drugs at that point.
She entered a state of almost happiness.
She was joyful inside of herself and they talk about hospice patients in bed reaching up.
(21:09):
She would do that.
She would tell me about people who visited and talked to her.
She was dying but she was also in a very comfortable place to be dying.
It wasn't something to be fearful of or panicked about.
And yet I'm human and my mom's dying.
(21:30):
So there was an element of, "Oh my goodness, I wonder what..."
Nothing ever happened.
There wasn't a "What happened?"
And that's what we see with animals.
As their loving caretakers, we are going to have our minds thinking forward as to "This is okay, but what if?"
There are always going to be those questions.
So if we are prepared for something that might need treating as would be in the human world, we can do the same for our animals.
(21:59):
We can be a loving presence for them as they're going through this process because we are not in a state of fear and panic.
Karen Wylie (22:07):
And I have found, as I know you have as well, that providing that care at home over a period of time allows us to go through our grieving with our pet while our pet is still here.
We're still going to grieve when they die and they leave us but
(22:30):
having that opportunity to care for them over days, weeks, months.
Gail Pope (22:35):
It's a gift.
Karen Wylie (22:36):
It's something that softens the blow after they leave us.
That's something generally I find with those who have decided on euthanasia before they were really ready that they have a much harder road to resolving their grief.
(22:57):
They're always the second guessing, "Should I have done this? Should I have kept them longer?" And so forth.
I don't have those same levels of regret when I provide hospice care.
I think that's generally true for those of us who do it more frequently.
It's something I wish everyone had the opportunity to do.
Gail Pope (23:16):
Exactly!
I think, hospice care, it bridges a gap, doesn't it?
It gives you the time to grieve.
It gives you the time to step into acceptance of what's coming.
It gives us time to actually learn what it is to be human perhaps.
Karen Wylie (23:37):
Perhaps and find out that our four footers are not that different from us after all.
Gail Pope (23:44):
No, they're not.
They have so much to teach us, so much to teach us.
Karen Wylie (23:48):
So much to teach us— that all-important pet perspective.
All right.
What do you think?
Have we done ourselves in on this conversation for today?
Gail Pope (23:59):
I think so.
There are so many nooks and crannies in this.
We could dive into so many of these little nooks and crannies.
But no, I think we've done enough for today.
We can revisit various parts of this.
I'm sure we can.
Karen Wylie (24:13):
We can and I'm sure we will too.
With that we'll bring a close to this conversation today and thank you for being with us.
Remind you that Thursdays at 10:00 AM Pacific our time for
Cuppa and Conversation with us.
Any Pet Parent is welcome to join us.
(24:34):
Please visit our BrightPathForPets.com website and right there on that homepage, you'll find information about how to join us on Zoom at 10:00 AM Pacific every Thursday.
With that, we'll say goodbye and thank you.
Goodbye.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(24:56):
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(25:28):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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