What does it feel like to grieve while your pet is still here? In this deeply personal episode, Gail and Karen explore anticipatory grief—the quiet sorrow that begins before a beloved pet’s life has ended. Through heartfelt stories, they share how love and grief often live side by side during caregiving, how to recognize the signs of anticipatory grief, and what it means to find peace of mind before goodbye.
Whether you're noticing your pet's decline, caring for a senior, or facing a difficult diagnosis, this episode offers comfort, reflection, and a reminder that you're not alone.
📌 Related blog post: "Walking the Labyrinth with Mr. Hope" — Karen’s personal reflection on anticipatory grief and finding comfort through ritual.
💬 If this episode touched your heart, you’re not alone. The BrightHaven Caregivers’ Hub is our supportive membership community for pet parents navigating caregiving, anticipatory grief, and all the moments in between.
We gather to share stories, ask questions, and care for each other as we care for our animals. If you’re walking this path, we’d be honored to walk it with you.
🔗 Learn more about the Hub: https://brightpathforpets.com/caregivers-hub/
📌Thanks for listening! Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a review 🐶⭐🐱
Learn More from BrightHaven Caregiver Academy For free resources, upcoming workshops, and a supportive community dedicated to navigating life with your aging or ill pet:
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Disclaimer: This content is for educational purposes and not a substitute for professional advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope
and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here with my dear friend— Gail Pope.
The two of us have walked beside so many different animals
in our lives.
We've also walked with friends and clients who have been walking the same path with their pets through illness, through aging, and even death.
(01:23):
Today, we'd like to talk about a kind of grief that can sneak up on a lot of us.
It's usually referred to as Anticipatory Grief.
It's a deep sadness that begins not after the pet dies but while they're still alive, while we're still loving them, caring for them, and still hoping for the best.
(01:48):
Gail is worried about one of her seniors at this point which is why we started thinking about some of these issues.
I think I've referred to Andy and Ollie as your white grandpaws on the podcast before, Gail.
It's usually how I check in to see how they're doing in the morning and right now you're worried about Andy.
(02:10):
So how about just bringing us up to date with what you've been observing and what you're feeling right now?
Gail Pope (02:15):
Andy came to live with me with his brother Ollie approximately two years ago.
They were both puppy mill dogs.
They had no idea of home life and still don't to a greater extent— particularly where continence is concerned.
They both wear belly bands.
However, Andy has always looked frail, whereas Ollie is more meaty.
(02:37):
Just in the last two or three weeks, I have noticed his anxiety is a little worse.
I'm noticing him tumbling and slipping over a little more, and I'm having to put more runners on the floor because he slides and loses his balance.
But just over the last two or three weeks, I'm noticing when I take them out for a walk.
(02:58):
Each day, I walk a little less far and now I'm taking a short way, bringing him home and then taking Ollie on a long walk.
So it's becoming more and more obvious each day that his strength is waning, his appetite isn't.
So it's a little mixed.
He still lives for his treats and for lots of love.
(03:20):
But yes, I can see what's around the corner.
It may not be, I may be completely wrong.
One would've assumed two years ago that he didn't have long to live but he's proven otherwise.
But now, I see this decline and I realize I am in that period of anticipating his death.
(03:44):
And yet, I think because I've learned over the years from many animals, probably hundreds— this is a time to increase the love, to enjoy the company, to have more fun, to give a few more treats, to not worry so much about the best diet, to just enjoy.
(04:04):
I noticed that if Andy isn't in the room, Ollie— he's completely deaf and blind, but he knows when Andy's not there and he'll go to find him to make sure he's all right.
So it's like a love and companionship and I feel that we are both surrounding Andy with a feeling of comfort.
(04:25):
It's a joyful time rather than a, "Oh God, can you see his decline?" And I think that really sums up anticipatory grief.
Definitely, we face it every minute of every day but it's a two-sided coin.
Karen Wylie (04:42):
Right?
It sometimes feels like an emotional rollercoaster because sometimes you have days where everything feels stable— hate to say "normal".
You have reason to feel positive.
You take joy in them looking like they're enjoying their life.
Then maybe in the evening or the next morning, they do something like you're describing where Andy's slipping.
(05:09):
He's having a little trouble with his balance or getting traction as he walks.
Then suddenly you can shift from enjoying a previous moment to then being worried and saying, "Oh, what does this mean?"
And trying to put whatever signs or symptoms you see, you try to put it in perspective as to what they mean and what you need to do as a caregiver.
Gail Pope (05:31):
Yes, that's the difficult part is having the two sides.
There's the side of you that needs to be focusing on medical things, that needs to be focusing on the needs and the comfort and the care.
But then the other side that takes the word care— takes it to a different level because that's all about the "loving" side and the "being" rather than the "doing".
(05:55):
So finding the balance between all the "doing" things that as humans we want to do.
And the "being", which is what the animals want, they want us to be with them.
So, it is taking time together in peace.
For me as well, it's very clear that when I take the pair of them just together for this little walk, first of all, Andy is having fun.
(06:17):
He's enjoying it.
He's walking really slowly, like a little old man with a stick, and he's stopping at every bush and reading the messages that maybe another dog walking along has left a message.
He enjoys just stumbling, going slowly down the road.
Whereas part of me is, "Oh my goodness, oh!" And I have to let that go because he's enjoying himself.
(06:40):
So why am I doing this?
Again, it's finding the balance— love and care.
Karen Wylie (06:47):
I think part of that is if I can project onto you the kinds of feelings that I have in those situations too.
But if I'm observing things that are worrisome, I try to write them down in a journal, in a care journal, my daily notes— I'm able to at least let them go a little bit more because I know I've captured it, I can come back to it.
(07:13):
I can see if I'm seeing the same thing tomorrow and maybe worry about it more if I've seen the same thing two or three days in a row.
But to just make sure I always want to keep track of everything when I'm in this process of caregiving because it can go on for weeks, months, or years with any pet.
(07:34):
We have no idea.
Sometimes there's a prognosis but you and I have both had animals that outlived a prognosis by years.
You just have to be ready for anything.
I have found probably the last few years, 10 or 15, I tend to start my grieving when I get a difficult diagnosis.
(07:58):
It's almost like it happens immediately.
I used to be devastated by sad possibilities because my mind would be going there right away.
"Oh my God, what is it going to be like without them?"
But over the years, I've try to soften it for myself so that when I'm given a difficult diagnosis like heart disease or stage three kidney disease or something where it's going to require some caregiving but they're not necessarily at death's door— I still try to soften it for myself and I say, "I think I found out today what Mr. Hope is likely to die from."
(08:42):
It's acknowledging, it's a softer way to let the diagnosis seep into your being and admit that, "Yes, that might be."
But we don't know that and we certainly know nothing about when.
So I try to just think of it in those terms.
I find the words I choose to use to describe the situation, help soften it for me and help me take that reality in a little bit more day by day.
(09:14):
I guess I started coming up with that when I would be taking one of our cats or dogs to the vet and I'd be driving home thinking, "How am I going to tell Tim?"
And how you tell other people about sadness or grief or anticipated death or actual death, the words you choose make a huge difference for other individuals.
(09:37):
So I started softening that possible reality like that.
"This is what this pet might die ultimately" and for some reason that works for me.
Gail Pope (09:48):
Yes, I think it's a big part of navigating a terminal diagnosis.
We've stepped back to the beginning where it begins but sharing and caring and loving.
We are stepping into a place in time where that's really what it's all about.
It's about finding that balance for where you are in that moment— in every moment.
(10:12):
I remember for years I don't think I ever certainly never used the words anticipatory grief, that was posh.
But I didn't think about grieving before an animal died.
I only thought about the "doing", the worrying, and the enjoyment— you know, balance in life.
(10:35):
I only thought about that.
It was only very gradually, I think, as the animal doulas stepped into life at BrightHaven, it gradually occurred to me that when an animal laid down towards the end of life, other animals would join them.
Gradually, I started to realize that they were anticipating the death but they didn't show grief.
(11:00):
That didn't really ever occur to me.
They were being with their loved ones, caring and helping them eat their food very often, particularly if there was a dog looking after a cat.
It was only really, I think one day when a volunteer came in.
One of the animals had died the previous day and I was doing what we all tend to do the following day, dealing with grief, dealing with household duties.
(11:26):
We don't tend to keep up our housekeeping as well when someone's reaching the end of their life and there's laundry to do, there's maybe more shopping.
There's so many different things that day after death that suddenly you wake up realizing, "Oh my goodness, I need to do this, and this."
And this lady said to me, "Gail, I wonder you are really busy but how do you handle the grief?"
(11:51):
And that stopped me in my tracks and I realized that I wasn't doing all my chores, crying.
I was okay and that felt awful at first.
I felt guilty.
And I suddenly realized that the animal doulas had taught me how to say goodbye.
(12:11):
How to grieve the dying one by loving them and being with them and helping them.
So, it just put a different slant completely on my life.
I think anticipatory grief, if you can really honor that, then after the death, you can concentrate.
(12:32):
So much more easily on honoring, respecting, celebrating the life that was lived.
Because when you're so steeped in a deep grief, everything is so painful and you carry that with you.
So you can't really celebrate and honor their lives as you would really want to, at least that's the way I look at it.
Karen Wylie (12:57):
Oh I so agree with you.
I feel that when we have the opportunity to care for our pets again, whether it's weeks, months, or years, it's such a gift because we can grieve and love at the same time.
We're multifaceted individuals— we humans just like our babies are.
I can love and let some tears flow.
(13:20):
At the same time, I'm thinking about, "Oh, I love them so much, and I just can't imagine being without them."
But by the time we get to the point where they transition,
I've said what needs to be said.
I feel like I've done everything I could do, and there is such grace in that because you're not feeling overwhelming guilt.
(13:46):
That's generally what you can feel about loss with loved ones is, "Oh God, I didn't tell them how much I love them. I didn't do this, I didn't get to do that."
When we're caregiving day to day, we have so many opportunities to truly live every day with our pets because that's how they live.
(14:06):
They live in the now.
It's just so precious because if there is that diagnosis that we've heard, might be what takes them ultimately, then every day truly is precious.
So I'm with you when one of my pets transitions, I cry— that actually happened.
Sometimes it's out of exhaustion because the end of life days or weeks are exhausting.
(14:32):
But I don't feel the same type of grief that I do when I hear about someone's sudden death or when I haven't been able to get to see a friend before we lose them.
It's a different— it's just different.
If I feel I've been able to say and do just about everything I would've hoped to do.
(14:57):
I've been grieving along the way, the same path that I've been loving them down.
That works better for me.
I may be tired the day after and I may be crying a little bit every morning, but I'm making it through my days and generally smiling because I'm already grabbing onto the memories, the good memories, the wonderful memories.
Gail Pope (15:18):
You have just said something that really— actually, you said two things I even wrote them down.
The first was using...
Karen Wylie (15:26):
Gail Pope, wrote things, wrote down things I said.
Gail Pope (15:30):
The first was just your use of the word grace.
Thank you for that because I think grace is a word that we don't use enough in our world.
It has such a beautiful meaning.
It's just so beautiful.
So thank you for that.
The other thing is something that I talk about an awful lot.
I'm probably talking about it until I get boring but tears.
(15:53):
We know that tears are cleansing.
We know that tears are healing.
But beyond that, I know when I'm talking to people so often and there'll probably be lots of people going, "Oh no, not this again."
But we tend, as parents, as mothers and fathers, we tend to cry in private.
(16:16):
We don't want our animals to see that we're unhappy or we are worrying about them.
And so we're in the bathroom, we're in the kitchen, we're in the bedroom, and we are mopping our tears and sniffing and then going back.
It's just it's so silly because animals know.
They speak our language.
We don't speak their language well, some of us lucky ones do, but cat speaks (16:36):
cat, dog and human.
Dog speaks (16:42):
cat and human.
You know, they understand us.
They're in it inside of us.
They walk with us through life.
However, we don't have the gifts that they do.
So I say to people, please don't cry in private.
If you're crying, go cry with them.
Go lie down.
Put your arm around him, cuddle him and share.
(17:05):
Because he knows you may be in the kitchen mopping your eyes, but he's in the living room going, "Oh, this is so sad. She's so unhappy. I want to cuddle her."
So just share and care and allow, again, it comes down to that balance because it is cleansing and healing.
Karen Wylie (17:23):
Yes, it's all those emotions all at once and accepting that as part and parcel of the caregiving journey.
What signs have you seen in clients who are experiencing anticipatory grief but perhaps they don't know it yet?
Gail Pope (17:41):
Oh my goodness.
That's a good question.
Karen Wylie (17:43):
Because a lot of times, at least in my experience, I don't think a lot of individuals are aware that they are experiencing anticipatory grief.
Because they equate grief as something that is supposed to happen after the loved one dies.
Yet, maybe they're not sleeping well or...
Gail Pope (18:03):
Exactly!
I see it in fear.
I see it in, "I need to talk to you about what I'm doing and if I'm doing it..." And they're so totally driven by the "doing".
That they haven't actually even thought about the "being".
Do you meditate?
Do you just sit and be?
Do you practice reiki?
A lot of people are very spiritually minded and a lot aren't, and that's okay.
(18:26):
But just letting go and being with your animal is something that we can all do and should do, but we don't always stop and do it.
So I think that's one of the first things that I often talk about because people are so caught up in their "doing" and worrying and making sure that it is about love.
(18:46):
I mean, I'm not saying they don't show the love because it's all about love.
But it's just that stopping, relaxing, being together and realizing that their fear is ruling their lives and just finding that balance again.
But yes, I think it's intention.
It's in fear.
(19:07):
It's in so many questions about, "Am I doing this right and what else should I be doing right?"
And the answer really is, you should be crying a little more.
You should be resting with them perhaps if you can, but you need to be caring for yourself— care for them.
It all comes back to, again, I hate to keep using the word balance today, but it seems to fit because it is a balance of caring for you, caring for them, caring for your relationship and grieving while you're loving.
Karen Wylie (19:38):
Yes, exactly.
I think part of it is.
Gaining a little more confidence that in yourself— that you are doing what needs to be done.
You're loving, you're crying.
At the same time, your pet is stable.
You can cry then and that's okay.
It's not like you're going to make anything happen because you are anticipating what life may be like when they're gone.
(20:01):
But just as you're saying, the focus is on how do I care for my pet?
But that's where we have to remind people to care for themselves.
Gail Pope (20:10):
It's very true, very true.
The number of people who've come to me and they're at the end of their rope because they're so tired.
It's not always about sleep.
It's partly sleep but it's partly the mental process that we give into that we just get onto this wheel that we can't get off.
The hamster wheel of worry and concern.
Karen Wylie (20:30):
Exactly and where the goal is peace of mind which is why when we were thinking of what we would name this podcast, we were thinking about what is the goal of caregiving if we can't prevent death?
And none of us can really do that.
(20:52):
But how do we wish to move through our lives and feel about what we experience and we want to have peace of mind,.
Gail Pope (20:59):
The most important thing.
That's sums up the discussion, I'd say.
Karen Wylie (21:04):
I think it does and the last thing I will say is that the blog post we'll be sharing this week that ties into anticipatory grief is something I wrote several years ago.
When I was anticipating the ultimate loss of one of my pets and I wrote about it in that moment a year and a half before he died.
(21:25):
I'll share what I was feeling and thinking as I was walking the labyrinth as part of my self-care plan— to give myself 15 minutes of alone time, to have a quiet walking meditation which is what a Labyrinth is.
We'll be sharing that with you shortly.
And I guess with that, we will end and say thank you for being with us today on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(21:50):
We hope to be with you again next week.
Thanks.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (21:54):
Thank you.
Goodbye.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(22:31):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope
and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Welcome and thank you for joining us for Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here with my dear friend— Gail Pope.
The two of us have walked beside so many different animals
in our lives.
We've also walked with friends and clients who have been walking the same path with their pets through illness, through aging, and even death.
(01:23):
Today, we'd like to talk about a kind of grief that can sneak up on a lot of us.
It's usually referred to as Anticipatory Grief.
It's a deep sadness that begins not after the pet dies but while they're still alive, while we're still loving them, caring for them, and still hoping for the best.
(01:48):
Gail is worried about one of her seniors at this point which is why we started thinking about some of these issues.
I think I've referred to Andy and Ollie as your white grandpaws on the podcast before, Gail.
It's usually how I check in to see how they're doing in the morning and right now you're worried about Andy.
(02:10):
So how about just bringing us up to date with what you've been observing and what you're feeling right now?
Gail Pope (02:15):
Andy came to live with me with his brother Ollie approximately two years ago.
They were both puppy mill dogs.
They had no idea of home life and still don't to a greater extent— particularly where continence is concerned.
They both wear belly bands.
However, Andy has always looked frail, whereas Ollie is more meaty.
(02:37):
Just in the last two or three weeks, I have noticed his anxiety is a little worse.
I'm noticing him tumbling and slipping over a little more, and I'm having to put more runners on the floor because he slides and loses his balance.
But just over the last two or three weeks, I'm noticing when I take them out for a walk.
(02:58):
Each day, I walk a little less far and now I'm taking a short way, bringing him home and then taking Ollie on a long walk.
So it's becoming more and more obvious each day that his strength is waning, his appetite isn't.
So it's a little mixed.
He still lives for his treats and for lots of love.
(03:20):
But yes, I can see what's around the corner.
It may not be, I may be completely wrong.
One would've assumed two years ago that he didn't have long to live but he's proven otherwise.
But now, I see this decline and I realize I am in that period of anticipating his death.
(03:44):
And yet, I think because I've learned over the years from many animals, probably hundreds— this is a time to increase the love, to enjoy the company, to have more fun, to give a few more treats, to not worry so much about the best diet, to just enjoy.
(04:04):
I noticed that if Andy isn't in the room, Ollie— he's completely deaf and blind, but he knows when Andy's not there and he'll go to find him to make sure he's all right.
So it's like a love and companionship and I feel that we are both surrounding Andy with a feeling of comfort.
(04:25):
It's a joyful time rather than a, "Oh God, can you see his decline?" And I think that really sums up anticipatory grief.
Definitely, we face it every minute of every day but it's a two-sided coin.
Karen Wylie (04:42):
Right?
It sometimes feels like an emotional rollercoaster because sometimes you have days where everything feels stable— hate to say "normal".
You have reason to feel positive.
You take joy in them looking like they're enjoying their life.
Then maybe in the evening or the next morning, they do something like you're describing where Andy's slipping.
(05:09):
He's having a little trouble with his balance or getting traction as he walks.
Then suddenly you can shift from enjoying a previous moment to then being worried and saying, "Oh, what does this mean?"
And trying to put whatever signs or symptoms you see, you try to put it in perspective as to what they mean and what you need to do as a caregiver.
Gail Pope (05:31):
Yes, that's the difficult part is having the two sides.
There's the side of you that needs to be focusing on medical things, that needs to be focusing on the needs and the comfort and the care.
But then the other side that takes the word care— takes it to a different level because that's all about the "loving" side and the "being" rather than the "doing".
(05:55):
So finding the balance between all the "doing" things that as humans we want to do.
And the "being", which is what the animals want, they want us to be with them.
So, it is taking time together in peace.
For me as well, it's very clear that when I take the pair of them just together for this little walk, first of all, Andy is having fun.
(06:17):
He's enjoying it.
He's walking really slowly, like a little old man with a stick, and he's stopping at every bush and reading the messages that maybe another dog walking along has left a message.
He enjoys just stumbling, going slowly down the road.
Whereas part of me is, "Oh my goodness, oh!" And I have to let that go because he's enjoying himself.
(06:40):
So why am I doing this?
Again, it's finding the balance— love and care.
Karen Wylie (06:47):
I think part of that is if I can project onto you the kinds of feelings that I have in those situations too.
But if I'm observing things that are worrisome, I try to write them down in a journal, in a care journal, my daily notes— I'm able to at least let them go a little bit more because I know I've captured it, I can come back to it.
(07:13):
I can see if I'm seeing the same thing tomorrow and maybe worry about it more if I've seen the same thing two or three days in a row.
But to just make sure I always want to keep track of everything when I'm in this process of caregiving because it can go on for weeks, months, or years with any pet.
(07:34):
We have no idea.
Sometimes there's a prognosis but you and I have both had animals that outlived a prognosis by years.
You just have to be ready for anything.
I have found probably the last few years, 10 or 15, I tend to start my grieving when I get a difficult diagnosis.
(07:58):
It's almost like it happens immediately.
I used to be devastated by sad possibilities because my mind would be going there right away.
"Oh my God, what is it going to be like without them?"
But over the years, I've try to soften it for myself so that when I'm given a difficult diagnosis like heart disease or stage three kidney disease or something where it's going to require some caregiving but they're not necessarily at death's door— I still try to soften it for myself and I say, "I think I found out today what Mr. Hope is likely to die from."
(08:42):
It's acknowledging, it's a softer way to let the diagnosis seep into your being and admit that, "Yes, that might be."
But we don't know that and we certainly know nothing about when.
So I try to just think of it in those terms.
I find the words I choose to use to describe the situation, help soften it for me and help me take that reality in a little bit more day by day.
(09:14):
I guess I started coming up with that when I would be taking one of our cats or dogs to the vet and I'd be driving home thinking, "How am I going to tell Tim?"
And how you tell other people about sadness or grief or anticipated death or actual death, the words you choose make a huge difference for other individuals.
(09:37):
So I started softening that possible reality like that.
"This is what this pet might die ultimately" and for some reason that works for me.
Gail Pope (09:48):
Yes, I think it's a big part of navigating a terminal diagnosis.
We've stepped back to the beginning where it begins but sharing and caring and loving.
We are stepping into a place in time where that's really what it's all about.
It's about finding that balance for where you are in that moment— in every moment.
(10:12):
I remember for years I don't think I ever certainly never used the words anticipatory grief, that was posh.
But I didn't think about grieving before an animal died.
I only thought about the "doing", the worrying, and the enjoyment— you know, balance in life.
(10:35):
I only thought about that.
It was only very gradually, I think, as the animal doulas stepped into life at BrightHaven, it gradually occurred to me that when an animal laid down towards the end of life, other animals would join them.
Gradually, I started to realize that they were anticipating the death but they didn't show grief.
(11:00):
That didn't really ever occur to me.
They were being with their loved ones, caring and helping them eat their food very often, particularly if there was a dog looking after a cat.
It was only really, I think one day when a volunteer came in.
One of the animals had died the previous day and I was doing what we all tend to do the following day, dealing with grief, dealing with household duties.
(11:26):
We don't tend to keep up our housekeeping as well when someone's reaching the end of their life and there's laundry to do, there's maybe more shopping.
There's so many different things that day after death that suddenly you wake up realizing, "Oh my goodness, I need to do this, and this."
And this lady said to me, "Gail, I wonder you are really busy but how do you handle the grief?"
(11:51):
And that stopped me in my tracks and I realized that I wasn't doing all my chores, crying.
I was okay and that felt awful at first.
I felt guilty.
And I suddenly realized that the animal doulas had taught me how to say goodbye.
(12:11):
How to grieve the dying one by loving them and being with them and helping them.
So, it just put a different slant completely on my life.
I think anticipatory grief, if you can really honor that, then after the death, you can concentrate.
(12:32):
So much more easily on honoring, respecting, celebrating the life that was lived.
Because when you're so steeped in a deep grief, everything is so painful and you carry that with you.
So you can't really celebrate and honor their lives as you would really want to, at least that's the way I look at it.
Karen Wylie (12:57):
Oh I so agree with you.
I feel that when we have the opportunity to care for our pets again, whether it's weeks, months, or years, it's such a gift because we can grieve and love at the same time.
We're multifaceted individuals— we humans just like our babies are.
I can love and let some tears flow.
(13:20):
At the same time, I'm thinking about, "Oh, I love them so much, and I just can't imagine being without them."
But by the time we get to the point where they transition,
I've said what needs to be said.
I feel like I've done everything I could do, and there is such grace in that because you're not feeling overwhelming guilt.
(13:46):
That's generally what you can feel about loss with loved ones is, "Oh God, I didn't tell them how much I love them. I didn't do this, I didn't get to do that."
When we're caregiving day to day, we have so many opportunities to truly live every day with our pets because that's how they live.
(14:06):
They live in the now.
It's just so precious because if there is that diagnosis that we've heard, might be what takes them ultimately, then every day truly is precious.
So I'm with you when one of my pets transitions, I cry— that actually happened.
Sometimes it's out of exhaustion because the end of life days or weeks are exhausting.
(14:32):
But I don't feel the same type of grief that I do when I hear about someone's sudden death or when I haven't been able to get to see a friend before we lose them.
It's a different— it's just different.
If I feel I've been able to say and do just about everything I would've hoped to do.
(14:57):
I've been grieving along the way, the same path that I've been loving them down.
That works better for me.
I may be tired the day after and I may be crying a little bit every morning, but I'm making it through my days and generally smiling because I'm already grabbing onto the memories, the good memories, the wonderful memories.
Gail Pope (15:18):
You have just said something that really— actually, you said two things I even wrote them down.
The first was using...
Karen Wylie (15:26):
Gail Pope, wrote things, wrote down things I said.
Gail Pope (15:30):
The first was just your use of the word grace.
Thank you for that because I think grace is a word that we don't use enough in our world.
It has such a beautiful meaning.
It's just so beautiful.
So thank you for that.
The other thing is something that I talk about an awful lot.
I'm probably talking about it until I get boring but tears.
(15:53):
We know that tears are cleansing.
We know that tears are healing.
But beyond that, I know when I'm talking to people so often and there'll probably be lots of people going, "Oh no, not this again."
But we tend, as parents, as mothers and fathers, we tend to cry in private.
(16:16):
We don't want our animals to see that we're unhappy or we are worrying about them.
And so we're in the bathroom, we're in the kitchen, we're in the bedroom, and we are mopping our tears and sniffing and then going back.
It's just it's so silly because animals know.
They speak our language.
We don't speak their language well, some of us lucky ones do, but cat speaks (16:36):
cat, dog and human.
Dog speaks (16:42):
cat and human.
You know, they understand us.
They're in it inside of us.
They walk with us through life.
However, we don't have the gifts that they do.
So I say to people, please don't cry in private.
If you're crying, go cry with them.
Go lie down.
Put your arm around him, cuddle him and share.
(17:05):
Because he knows you may be in the kitchen mopping your eyes, but he's in the living room going, "Oh, this is so sad. She's so unhappy. I want to cuddle her."
So just share and care and allow, again, it comes down to that balance because it is cleansing and healing.
Karen Wylie (17:23):
Yes, it's all those emotions all at once and accepting that as part and parcel of the caregiving journey.
What signs have you seen in clients who are experiencing anticipatory grief but perhaps they don't know it yet?
Gail Pope (17:41):
Oh my goodness.
That's a good question.
Karen Wylie (17:43):
Because a lot of times, at least in my experience, I don't think a lot of individuals are aware that they are experiencing anticipatory grief.
Because they equate grief as something that is supposed to happen after the loved one dies.
Yet, maybe they're not sleeping well or...
Gail Pope (18:03):
Exactly!
I see it in fear.
I see it in, "I need to talk to you about what I'm doing and if I'm doing it..." And they're so totally driven by the "doing".
That they haven't actually even thought about the "being".
Do you meditate?
Do you just sit and be?
Do you practice reiki?
A lot of people are very spiritually minded and a lot aren't, and that's okay.
(18:26):
But just letting go and being with your animal is something that we can all do and should do, but we don't always stop and do it.
So I think that's one of the first things that I often talk about because people are so caught up in their "doing" and worrying and making sure that it is about love.
(18:46):
I mean, I'm not saying they don't show the love because it's all about love.
But it's just that stopping, relaxing, being together and realizing that their fear is ruling their lives and just finding that balance again.
But yes, I think it's intention.
It's in fear.
(19:07):
It's in so many questions about, "Am I doing this right and what else should I be doing right?"
And the answer really is, you should be crying a little more.
You should be resting with them perhaps if you can, but you need to be caring for yourself— care for them.
It all comes back to, again, I hate to keep using the word balance today, but it seems to fit because it is a balance of caring for you, caring for them, caring for your relationship and grieving while you're loving.
Karen Wylie (19:38):
Yes, exactly.
I think part of it is.
Gaining a little more confidence that in yourself— that you are doing what needs to be done.
You're loving, you're crying.
At the same time, your pet is stable.
You can cry then and that's okay.
It's not like you're going to make anything happen because you are anticipating what life may be like when they're gone.
(20:01):
But just as you're saying, the focus is on how do I care for my pet?
But that's where we have to remind people to care for themselves.
Gail Pope (20:10):
It's very true, very true.
The number of people who've come to me and they're at the end of their rope because they're so tired.
It's not always about sleep.
It's partly sleep but it's partly the mental process that we give into that we just get onto this wheel that we can't get off.
The hamster wheel of worry and concern.
Karen Wylie (20:30):
Exactly and where the goal is peace of mind which is why when we were thinking of what we would name this podcast, we were thinking about what is the goal of caregiving if we can't prevent death?
And none of us can really do that.
(20:52):
But how do we wish to move through our lives and feel about what we experience and we want to have peace of mind,.
Gail Pope (20:59):
The most important thing.
That's sums up the discussion, I'd say.
Karen Wylie (21:04):
I think it does and the last thing I will say is that the blog post we'll be sharing this week that ties into anticipatory grief is something I wrote several years ago.
When I was anticipating the ultimate loss of one of my pets and I wrote about it in that moment a year and a half before he died.
(21:25):
I'll share what I was feeling and thinking as I was walking the labyrinth as part of my self-care plan— to give myself 15 minutes of alone time, to have a quiet walking meditation which is what a Labyrinth is.
We'll be sharing that with you shortly.
And I guess with that, we will end and say thank you for being with us today on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
(21:50):
We hope to be with you again next week.
Thanks.
Bye-bye now.
Gail Pope (21:54):
Thank you.
Goodbye.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(22:31):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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