June 5, 2025 • 24 mins
Can animals truly choose when to transition?
In this heartfelt episode, Gail Pope of BrightHaven shares profound stories of animal companions who appeared to know — and even guide — the timing of their own passing. Through deeply moving examples, Gail invites us to consider the soul-level awareness of animals at the end of life and the sacred space we can hold for them as they prepare to say goodbye.
Tune in for a gentle and enlightening conversation that may shift how you experience your pet’s final chapter.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here today with Gail Pope.
For our topic today, we're going to continue stepping a little bit further into our spiritual discussions of how we have learned or observed unusual and spiritual connections through our pets dying.
(01:21):
So last week Gail shared her story about Sarah the cat and an experience with the silver cord that was very meaningful for her and changed her approach to the dying process with future pets.
I shared a story about Mr. Hope, who gave us a wonderful last day filled with many signs looking back that he knew death would be coming for him soon as well.
(01:53):
Today, we thought we would
begin looking at the idea or the question, can pets choose when they die?
Gail and I have both had many experiences through the years that have allowed us to develop the belief that yes, we believe they can choose when they will be dying.
(02:19):
Some of the experiences we've had have been with humans too and that's something that you've probably heard about from friends or relatives or perhaps you've experienced it yourself.
Gail, I know you've had experiences on the human side here when it appears that some of our loved ones know when they are dying.
(02:46):
You want to start us off with one or two of those stories?
Gail Pope (02:52):
Yes and it is interesting just listening to what you were saying made me realize that the first human experience I had many years ago didn't actually lead me into any kind of belief or it was just something really strange that happened.
(03:12):
This was my wonderful second dad— my stepdad called Douglas.
It happened in England long before I moved to America and long before I got married.
Douglas was dying.
It was a slow expected death.
He was at home in his bedroom and it was a long, slow, but mostly easy process.
(03:34):
I flew over from America to England for six weeks at the end of his life, I was with him.
To cut a long story short, my stepsisters, I had three (03:41):
Pat, Linda, and Mary, we had never had a close relationship.
The two families had been separate.
It would've been lovely to have been friends and Douglas always wanted his daughters and me to just be together.
(04:02):
We got to a point where Douglas was so close to death, we couldn't understand why he didn't go.
In fact, we called the doctor on one occasion and he said, "He won't belong now, it's okay." That was a week before he died.
Anyway, his birthday was April the 30th and in honor of that, as he was still very faintly with us, I actually contacted Pat, Linda, and Mary and invited them to come join me for his birthday.
(04:29):
And so they did, we spent the entire day perched on his bed eating chips and dips and drinking beer, and we made him birthday cards.
We laughed.
He was completely unconscious.
Although I sat beside him most of the time, and every now and again I'd get a faint squeeze of his hand.
Oh, I remember that so clearly.
(04:51):
It was just so precious and yet there was a lot of fear as well.
On the stroke of midnight, he gave a soft breath and left.
Oh, that day was so precious.
It sits in my memory so clearly.
He stayed all the way through his four daughters spending the day together with him, laughing and joking, drinking his favorite beer, making him birthday cards, and then the day ended and he chose to leave us.
(05:23):
That was my first experience.
Karen Wylie (05:25):
Goodness and then you had another experience with your mom, right?
Gail Pope (05:30):
Actually.
Wow.
Yes, I did.
That was very different because by that time we were at the sanctuary in Santa Rosa and my mom lived with us.
She was in her dying process and I slept with her overnight during those last days in her bedroom.
(05:50):
That particular night I guess I have to set the stage because I'd become used to animals seeming to die at a particular time.
That was always after I'd spent the night in bed with them on the floor, on my bed, wherever it was with other animals or not.
It was a ritual I had at five o'clock I would get up, get ready for the day because I had to be ready for looking after animals in the sanctuary.
(06:18):
So at five o'clock, I would say to the dying one, "I'm so sorry.
I have to get up and leave you.
I've got to get showered.
I'm going to be with you back and forwards." And I'd have this little conversation with them, cuddle them and just say, "I'm going to be getting up soon."
And almost everybody at 20 past 5 breathed their last, gave a sigh and left.
(06:45):
I had become used to it so much that it wasn't a spooky thing anymore.
It was just something that happened and it was warm and it was reassuring and it didn't always happen.
So it hadn't become, "Oh, I'm going to sleep with them and they'll go at 20 past 5."
But it just often happened.
And with my mom, I was lying at five o'clock with her and I was worried.
(07:09):
I didn't want to leave her.
I knew I was going to have to get up soon and my brain was more filled with "How quickly could I get showered? I don't know whether I really should leave her. What am I going to do?"
And I relaxed and I thought, "She's okay. It's fine."
So I said, "Mom, I'm going to be getting up soon.
I'm going to have to go and get ready for today.
(07:30):
Blanca will be here soon as well.
We are not going to leave you."
And at 20 past she gave a sigh and she left.
It was only really after that I put it all together and it became something much more important as we're talking about today.
So yes those are the two human experiences that really underscored everything for me.
Karen Wylie (07:56):
And even though we know a little bit more about human death; actually we know a lot more about human death and dying than we do about animal death and dying.
These are still anecdotes that we can't "prove" with our humans dying as well.
But we have all heard about these and similar stories, as you're describing, where Douglas was able to experience a last day on his birthday.
(08:24):
He made it another year and all of his daughters in one room with him.
That was incredibly meaningful for him.
Then he let go.
And your mom adapting to your daily routine!
I've heard so often you know about loved ones who hang on longer than anyone expects in just enough time for relative to fly cross country, have all sorts of delays and issues, and they finally get to the hospital to hold their hand and then five minutes later they're gone.
(08:59):
No one can imagine how they hung on that long but they do.
Then others do wait for you to leave the room.
With Tim's mother, my mother-in-law, she was 88 when she died.
She had a lot of things going wrong and we're there watching, wanting to be with her every day.
And finally 10:30 at night, they really want to kick you out.
(09:22):
Those are really emotionally exhausting days in the hospital.
So we left and 30 minutes later, they were letting us know she had died.
So we're thinking we should be there for the moment that she crosses over but she was actually choosing for us not to be.
And you hear that kind of story a lot of times as well?
Gail Pope (09:45):
Oh yes.
Oh yes, indeed.
That reminds me of a cat called Harriet and Harriet was dying.
She was a beautiful tabby.
She was going through a long process where I didn't feel comfortable leaving her.
She wasn't ambulatory and so I had a great big wicker basket that I made her comfortable in so that I could keep her with me.
(10:12):
If I was working in the clinic, I could just pop her basket down and keep an eye on her.
Anyway, that particular morning, I was in the kitchen preparing food for all the animals and Harriet was in her basket beside me.
I'd got all piles of cat plates and all the serving bowls, and I'm ready.
(10:32):
I'm dishing up feeding, obviously the cats that have invaded my countertop, feeding them first.
Then I realized that I needed a particular can of food for one of the cats.
My pantry was 10 foot across on the other side of the room and I bent down.
I stroked Harriet and I said, "I'm coming right back. I'll just a minute." And I walked through.
(10:57):
I got the can.
I came back and she'd gone as quickly as that.
We knew she was close but she could have chosen any time to just let go or Mother Nature, if you like, would've stepped in.
How uncanny with all the other experiences I've had to do that in less than a minute.
(11:22):
You can't really argue.
At least I certainly can't.
I was
there.
Karen Wylie (11:29):
That's the thing!
I think each of us have had so many different experiences and they're different in their details.
But the same learning or the same question has to be raised, "Did they know?"
And then our answer is, "Yes, they knew they were dying and they chose when to die."
Which is a step further than what we were talking about last week with our animals, with Sarah the cat, and Mr. Hope the cat.
(12:00):
Going through a lot of different actions and behaviors that were very meaningful to each of us.
Then they died later on.
Gail Pope (12:09):
You just said something that touched a chord inside of me.
You said, "They knew they were dying." And that makes me stop and think,
I guess we need to look at the word dying and what that means.
(12:30):
Because if we start to look at the word dying as transition, they knew they were transitioning.
They knew they were stepping onto that path.
They knew they were taking a right turn or a left turn.
It takes a little bit different away from the word death.
(12:50):
They knew.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Karen Wylie (12:53):
Oh yes.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I'm with you with the language.
Gail Pope (12:57):
That is really interesting.
Thinking of it— talk about transition all the time rather than death and dying but putting it into this conversation.
I really like that.
Karen Wylie (13:12):
It feels to me like they choose when to die in a way that helps us.
Over the years, I have developed different routines that I go through with animals that are
declining in their health and at some point I begin to realize that instead of a very gradual decline, they're really starting to go downhill.
(13:42):
So when I sense that's happening, I start doing three different things.
I very much spend a lot of physical time with them focusing and offering them reiki.
I've taken a page from Shamanism and Native American traditions.
It's commonly called the "Calling in of the Ancestors".
So I start describing who they're likely to meet when they die, who's going to greet them?
(14:08):
And so I begin mentioning the names of other pets that they have known during their lifetime as well as other important humans.
Then I also engage in communication with them.
One of the things I have learned in my many animal communication educational opportunities is that sending visual images, picturing something in your mind with the intention of communicating that to your animal can be as effective if not more effective than words.
(14:44):
So I have evolved that process for myself with all my animals.
I do believe they can choose when they die.
I do wonder, what role did I play in that?
In terms of are all the things that I do to
help my animals prepare to cross over, to transition— am I really helping them or is it just for me?
(15:10):
I like to think it's both.
Gail Pope (15:12):
Yes.
You're a team, you know you're family.
So anything, everything is for both, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (15:21):
I certainly think so.
Gail Pope (15:23):
Wow.
Goodness.
You're making me think about Frazier and at the risk of repeating myself, because I think I've talked about Frazier a lot in the past, and I think people think I'm joking a lot of the time, but Frazier became very well known at BrightHaven.
Frazier was a cat.
He lived to the age of 34, and in the last six months of his life, I'm cutting out a huge story here.
(15:51):
I'll write it out one day.
His was an amazing story.
But in the last maybe six months of his life.
He died several times and each time he went through what we have come to understand as the dying process.
And there is a process, a human animal.
It doesn't matter how many legs you've got, you go through the same process designed by Mother Nature to transition.
(16:17):
Frazier went through that process.
He lifted his head back, he stretched his legs out, he died.
Sometimes there were two of us with him.
Sometimes there were a couple of volunteers who were crying and saying goodbye to Frazier with us.
One time Kathleen Prasad from Animal Reiki Source was part of the beautiful dying process at the end of which this almost dead or dead cat would open one eye.
(16:49):
He only had one eye, particularly he had a cancer that destroyed one side of his face.
He would open that one eye and go, "Oh, hi!
I think I'm okay."
And he'd come back.
So Frazier became a legend in his own lifetime without any shadow of a doubt.
He also became very well known because again, in those last six months, he had a protege.
(17:14):
Flame was a sweet, innocent, elderly, but like a baby, you know how some people are young even when they're old.
Flame was Frazier's protege.
He helped him, he patted him on the back and he followed Frazier around.
Anyway, the day that we lost Flame when he died.
(17:37):
Frazier was actually in like a trolley that Frazier was able to lie in at that time.
So we bought Flame and we laid him in the bed with Frazier.
Somebody had said, "You know what, maybe Frazier would like to say goodbye to him. Perhaps we should put them together." So we did and within minutes, Frazier, who hadn't actually been dying at that time, Frazier left.
Karen Wylie (18:02):
That's that time he really left.
Gail Pope (18:04):
Yes, he actually stepped out.
There was no real obvious process to it.
It was time, he wanted to go with Flame.
You can argue it, right?
We have all these strange experiences in life and we label them as this, that, or the other.
We don't think about them.
But why else would he have died at that time?
(18:26):
He'd already shown us that he understood the dying process and he couldn't not die.
But that really came back to me then.
That was a clear decision to me anyway.
Karen Wylie (18:39):
Yes, and really does illustrate the transition and he waited.
Gail Pope (18:46):
His physical self went through the dying process.
But when that one eye would open and look up, you could almost see him laughing, "Ha-ha, you thought I'd gone."
Karen Wylie (18:57):
Oh, sounds like he was quite, quite the character.
Gail Pope (19:00):
He was adored by many people.
Absolutely adored, totally adored.
Goodness.
That's an interesting topic.
I have so many more stories that are coming into my mind, and I think it'll just be too overwhelming right now.
Karen Wylie (19:15):
I know.
See, that's the thing.
It's like as we identify different topics or themes that we want to discuss, there are so many experiences to draw from that it can be hard.
Gail Pope (19:28):
Death is hard.
Death is the hardest thing for a human to bear really.
I guess birth and death are painful experiences.
Painful to the heart, as well as sometimes painful in other ways, but just recounting these kinds of stories brings joy, doesn't it?
It doesn't fear.
(19:49):
It brings joy.
Karen Wylie (19:50):
It brings joy.
Yes, it reinforces
what is possible that is not explained by anything physical, anything medical.
Gail Pope (20:04):
I think they help remove, maybe not completely, but we all have this innate fear of death because we don't quite understand it.
But when you hear stories from the human or the animal world like these, they help.
I think they really do help us to understand that it's not something we completely
(20:28):
understand in any shape or form.
There is something much deeper than just that moment of death.
There's a presence, there's more of a being than a not being.
Karen Wylie (20:41):
Yes very much and it's difficult.
We can't understand the spiritual and energetic aspects if we're trying to understand it just simply with our logical mind for the most part.
Although I think some of the stories we've shared, it's really hard to come up with another explanation than they chose when to die.
(21:03):
And I know one of the things that I have done over the years in supporting other people as they prepare for their pets to transition is to say, "Go ahead and schedule the euthanasia appointment."
Gail Pope (21:18):
Absolutely, yes.
Karen Wylie (21:19):
Two days out next week and let your animal know that and see what is possible.
I know you've recommended that to countless clients over the years as well.
In most cases, the pet chooses to go on their own.
Gail Pope (21:36):
Yes, sometimes not.
But I would say the majority of times that clients have actually done that, it creates a gap in time.
It creates a "let's calm down" because instead of worrying about making that decision, we've made it.
Now we can enter a peaceful time for us all to say goodbye in one way or another— knowing that it will be okay.
(22:03):
I think when people relax into that time, their animal is very often able to be with them and let go.
It really is quite beautiful.
Karen Wylie (22:16):
I so agree.
It gives new meaning to the question so many of us ask, "Is it time? Is it time for what?"
Gail Pope (22:30):
Yes, exactly.
Karen Wylie (22:34):
And in so many cases, we can allow the animal to choose when it's time from their perspective.
Gail Pope (22:44):
The bottom line is really, I think Mother Nature holds the clock or the stopwatch.
Karen Wylie (22:51):
When we allow that to happen.
All right.
I guess on that note, we will close, unless there is something else you would like to say.
Gail Pope (23:00):
I do not, you don't need to start me with more stories.
Otherwise I should talk forever.
Karen Wylie (23:04):
More stories.
More stories.
Gail Pope (23:07):
We're done for today.
Karen Wylie (23:09):
Oh goodness.
We hope that you have enjoyed hearing some stories that give you a new perspective on perhaps how your pet's perspective can help you understand spiritual transition and physical dying and death.
Hopefully looking at it in some new ways and considering some new ideas.
(23:31):
So with that, we will close and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.
Thank you for being with us.
Bye-bye.
Gail Pope (23:37):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
(23:59):
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(24:20):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie and together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:50):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here today with Gail Pope.
For our topic today, we're going to continue stepping a little bit further into our spiritual discussions of how we have learned or observed unusual and spiritual connections through our pets dying.
(01:21):
So last week Gail shared her story about Sarah the cat and an experience with the silver cord that was very meaningful for her and changed her approach to the dying process with future pets.
I shared a story about Mr. Hope, who gave us a wonderful last day filled with many signs looking back that he knew death would be coming for him soon as well.
(01:53):
Today, we thought we would
begin looking at the idea or the question, can pets choose when they die?
Gail and I have both had many experiences through the years that have allowed us to develop the belief that yes, we believe they can choose when they will be dying.
(02:19):
Some of the experiences we've had have been with humans too and that's something that you've probably heard about from friends or relatives or perhaps you've experienced it yourself.
Gail, I know you've had experiences on the human side here when it appears that some of our loved ones know when they are dying.
(02:46):
You want to start us off with one or two of those stories?
Gail Pope (02:52):
Yes and it is interesting just listening to what you were saying made me realize that the first human experience I had many years ago didn't actually lead me into any kind of belief or it was just something really strange that happened.
(03:12):
This was my wonderful second dad— my stepdad called Douglas.
It happened in England long before I moved to America and long before I got married.
Douglas was dying.
It was a slow expected death.
He was at home in his bedroom and it was a long, slow, but mostly easy process.
(03:34):
I flew over from America to England for six weeks at the end of his life, I was with him.
To cut a long story short, my stepsisters, I had three (03:41):
Pat, Linda, and Mary, we had never had a close relationship.
The two families had been separate.
It would've been lovely to have been friends and Douglas always wanted his daughters and me to just be together.
(04:02):
We got to a point where Douglas was so close to death, we couldn't understand why he didn't go.
In fact, we called the doctor on one occasion and he said, "He won't belong now, it's okay." That was a week before he died.
Anyway, his birthday was April the 30th and in honor of that, as he was still very faintly with us, I actually contacted Pat, Linda, and Mary and invited them to come join me for his birthday.
(04:29):
And so they did, we spent the entire day perched on his bed eating chips and dips and drinking beer, and we made him birthday cards.
We laughed.
He was completely unconscious.
Although I sat beside him most of the time, and every now and again I'd get a faint squeeze of his hand.
Oh, I remember that so clearly.
(04:51):
It was just so precious and yet there was a lot of fear as well.
On the stroke of midnight, he gave a soft breath and left.
Oh, that day was so precious.
It sits in my memory so clearly.
He stayed all the way through his four daughters spending the day together with him, laughing and joking, drinking his favorite beer, making him birthday cards, and then the day ended and he chose to leave us.
(05:23):
That was my first experience.
Karen Wylie (05:25):
Goodness and then you had another experience with your mom, right?
Gail Pope (05:30):
Actually.
Wow.
Yes, I did.
That was very different because by that time we were at the sanctuary in Santa Rosa and my mom lived with us.
She was in her dying process and I slept with her overnight during those last days in her bedroom.
(05:50):
That particular night I guess I have to set the stage because I'd become used to animals seeming to die at a particular time.
That was always after I'd spent the night in bed with them on the floor, on my bed, wherever it was with other animals or not.
It was a ritual I had at five o'clock I would get up, get ready for the day because I had to be ready for looking after animals in the sanctuary.
(06:18):
So at five o'clock, I would say to the dying one, "I'm so sorry.
I have to get up and leave you.
I've got to get showered.
I'm going to be with you back and forwards." And I'd have this little conversation with them, cuddle them and just say, "I'm going to be getting up soon."
And almost everybody at 20 past 5 breathed their last, gave a sigh and left.
(06:45):
I had become used to it so much that it wasn't a spooky thing anymore.
It was just something that happened and it was warm and it was reassuring and it didn't always happen.
So it hadn't become, "Oh, I'm going to sleep with them and they'll go at 20 past 5."
But it just often happened.
And with my mom, I was lying at five o'clock with her and I was worried.
(07:09):
I didn't want to leave her.
I knew I was going to have to get up soon and my brain was more filled with "How quickly could I get showered? I don't know whether I really should leave her. What am I going to do?"
And I relaxed and I thought, "She's okay. It's fine."
So I said, "Mom, I'm going to be getting up soon.
I'm going to have to go and get ready for today.
(07:30):
Blanca will be here soon as well.
We are not going to leave you."
And at 20 past she gave a sigh and she left.
It was only really after that I put it all together and it became something much more important as we're talking about today.
So yes those are the two human experiences that really underscored everything for me.
Karen Wylie (07:56):
And even though we know a little bit more about human death; actually we know a lot more about human death and dying than we do about animal death and dying.
These are still anecdotes that we can't "prove" with our humans dying as well.
But we have all heard about these and similar stories, as you're describing, where Douglas was able to experience a last day on his birthday.
(08:24):
He made it another year and all of his daughters in one room with him.
That was incredibly meaningful for him.
Then he let go.
And your mom adapting to your daily routine!
I've heard so often you know about loved ones who hang on longer than anyone expects in just enough time for relative to fly cross country, have all sorts of delays and issues, and they finally get to the hospital to hold their hand and then five minutes later they're gone.
(08:59):
No one can imagine how they hung on that long but they do.
Then others do wait for you to leave the room.
With Tim's mother, my mother-in-law, she was 88 when she died.
She had a lot of things going wrong and we're there watching, wanting to be with her every day.
And finally 10:30 at night, they really want to kick you out.
(09:22):
Those are really emotionally exhausting days in the hospital.
So we left and 30 minutes later, they were letting us know she had died.
So we're thinking we should be there for the moment that she crosses over but she was actually choosing for us not to be.
And you hear that kind of story a lot of times as well?
Gail Pope (09:45):
Oh yes.
Oh yes, indeed.
That reminds me of a cat called Harriet and Harriet was dying.
She was a beautiful tabby.
She was going through a long process where I didn't feel comfortable leaving her.
She wasn't ambulatory and so I had a great big wicker basket that I made her comfortable in so that I could keep her with me.
(10:12):
If I was working in the clinic, I could just pop her basket down and keep an eye on her.
Anyway, that particular morning, I was in the kitchen preparing food for all the animals and Harriet was in her basket beside me.
I'd got all piles of cat plates and all the serving bowls, and I'm ready.
(10:32):
I'm dishing up feeding, obviously the cats that have invaded my countertop, feeding them first.
Then I realized that I needed a particular can of food for one of the cats.
My pantry was 10 foot across on the other side of the room and I bent down.
I stroked Harriet and I said, "I'm coming right back. I'll just a minute." And I walked through.
(10:57):
I got the can.
I came back and she'd gone as quickly as that.
We knew she was close but she could have chosen any time to just let go or Mother Nature, if you like, would've stepped in.
How uncanny with all the other experiences I've had to do that in less than a minute.
(11:22):
You can't really argue.
At least I certainly can't.
I was
there.
Karen Wylie (11:29):
That's the thing!
I think each of us have had so many different experiences and they're different in their details.
But the same learning or the same question has to be raised, "Did they know?"
And then our answer is, "Yes, they knew they were dying and they chose when to die."
Which is a step further than what we were talking about last week with our animals, with Sarah the cat, and Mr. Hope the cat.
(12:00):
Going through a lot of different actions and behaviors that were very meaningful to each of us.
Then they died later on.
Gail Pope (12:09):
You just said something that touched a chord inside of me.
You said, "They knew they were dying." And that makes me stop and think,
I guess we need to look at the word dying and what that means.
(12:30):
Because if we start to look at the word dying as transition, they knew they were transitioning.
They knew they were stepping onto that path.
They knew they were taking a right turn or a left turn.
It takes a little bit different away from the word death.
(12:50):
They knew.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
Karen Wylie (12:53):
Oh yes.
Absolutely, absolutely.
I'm with you with the language.
Gail Pope (12:57):
That is really interesting.
Thinking of it— talk about transition all the time rather than death and dying but putting it into this conversation.
I really like that.
Karen Wylie (13:12):
It feels to me like they choose when to die in a way that helps us.
Over the years, I have developed different routines that I go through with animals that are
declining in their health and at some point I begin to realize that instead of a very gradual decline, they're really starting to go downhill.
(13:42):
So when I sense that's happening, I start doing three different things.
I very much spend a lot of physical time with them focusing and offering them reiki.
I've taken a page from Shamanism and Native American traditions.
It's commonly called the "Calling in of the Ancestors".
So I start describing who they're likely to meet when they die, who's going to greet them?
(14:08):
And so I begin mentioning the names of other pets that they have known during their lifetime as well as other important humans.
Then I also engage in communication with them.
One of the things I have learned in my many animal communication educational opportunities is that sending visual images, picturing something in your mind with the intention of communicating that to your animal can be as effective if not more effective than words.
(14:44):
So I have evolved that process for myself with all my animals.
I do believe they can choose when they die.
I do wonder, what role did I play in that?
In terms of are all the things that I do to
help my animals prepare to cross over, to transition— am I really helping them or is it just for me?
(15:10):
I like to think it's both.
Gail Pope (15:12):
Yes.
You're a team, you know you're family.
So anything, everything is for both, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (15:21):
I certainly think so.
Gail Pope (15:23):
Wow.
Goodness.
You're making me think about Frazier and at the risk of repeating myself, because I think I've talked about Frazier a lot in the past, and I think people think I'm joking a lot of the time, but Frazier became very well known at BrightHaven.
Frazier was a cat.
He lived to the age of 34, and in the last six months of his life, I'm cutting out a huge story here.
(15:51):
I'll write it out one day.
His was an amazing story.
But in the last maybe six months of his life.
He died several times and each time he went through what we have come to understand as the dying process.
And there is a process, a human animal.
It doesn't matter how many legs you've got, you go through the same process designed by Mother Nature to transition.
(16:17):
Frazier went through that process.
He lifted his head back, he stretched his legs out, he died.
Sometimes there were two of us with him.
Sometimes there were a couple of volunteers who were crying and saying goodbye to Frazier with us.
One time Kathleen Prasad from Animal Reiki Source was part of the beautiful dying process at the end of which this almost dead or dead cat would open one eye.
(16:49):
He only had one eye, particularly he had a cancer that destroyed one side of his face.
He would open that one eye and go, "Oh, hi!
I think I'm okay."
And he'd come back.
So Frazier became a legend in his own lifetime without any shadow of a doubt.
He also became very well known because again, in those last six months, he had a protege.
(17:14):
Flame was a sweet, innocent, elderly, but like a baby, you know how some people are young even when they're old.
Flame was Frazier's protege.
He helped him, he patted him on the back and he followed Frazier around.
Anyway, the day that we lost Flame when he died.
(17:37):
Frazier was actually in like a trolley that Frazier was able to lie in at that time.
So we bought Flame and we laid him in the bed with Frazier.
Somebody had said, "You know what, maybe Frazier would like to say goodbye to him. Perhaps we should put them together." So we did and within minutes, Frazier, who hadn't actually been dying at that time, Frazier left.
Karen Wylie (18:02):
That's that time he really left.
Gail Pope (18:04):
Yes, he actually stepped out.
There was no real obvious process to it.
It was time, he wanted to go with Flame.
You can argue it, right?
We have all these strange experiences in life and we label them as this, that, or the other.
We don't think about them.
But why else would he have died at that time?
(18:26):
He'd already shown us that he understood the dying process and he couldn't not die.
But that really came back to me then.
That was a clear decision to me anyway.
Karen Wylie (18:39):
Yes, and really does illustrate the transition and he waited.
Gail Pope (18:46):
His physical self went through the dying process.
But when that one eye would open and look up, you could almost see him laughing, "Ha-ha, you thought I'd gone."
Karen Wylie (18:57):
Oh, sounds like he was quite, quite the character.
Gail Pope (19:00):
He was adored by many people.
Absolutely adored, totally adored.
Goodness.
That's an interesting topic.
I have so many more stories that are coming into my mind, and I think it'll just be too overwhelming right now.
Karen Wylie (19:15):
I know.
See, that's the thing.
It's like as we identify different topics or themes that we want to discuss, there are so many experiences to draw from that it can be hard.
Gail Pope (19:28):
Death is hard.
Death is the hardest thing for a human to bear really.
I guess birth and death are painful experiences.
Painful to the heart, as well as sometimes painful in other ways, but just recounting these kinds of stories brings joy, doesn't it?
It doesn't fear.
(19:49):
It brings joy.
Karen Wylie (19:50):
It brings joy.
Yes, it reinforces
what is possible that is not explained by anything physical, anything medical.
Gail Pope (20:04):
I think they help remove, maybe not completely, but we all have this innate fear of death because we don't quite understand it.
But when you hear stories from the human or the animal world like these, they help.
I think they really do help us to understand that it's not something we completely
(20:28):
understand in any shape or form.
There is something much deeper than just that moment of death.
There's a presence, there's more of a being than a not being.
Karen Wylie (20:41):
Yes very much and it's difficult.
We can't understand the spiritual and energetic aspects if we're trying to understand it just simply with our logical mind for the most part.
Although I think some of the stories we've shared, it's really hard to come up with another explanation than they chose when to die.
(21:03):
And I know one of the things that I have done over the years in supporting other people as they prepare for their pets to transition is to say, "Go ahead and schedule the euthanasia appointment."
Gail Pope (21:18):
Absolutely, yes.
Karen Wylie (21:19):
Two days out next week and let your animal know that and see what is possible.
I know you've recommended that to countless clients over the years as well.
In most cases, the pet chooses to go on their own.
Gail Pope (21:36):
Yes, sometimes not.
But I would say the majority of times that clients have actually done that, it creates a gap in time.
It creates a "let's calm down" because instead of worrying about making that decision, we've made it.
Now we can enter a peaceful time for us all to say goodbye in one way or another— knowing that it will be okay.
(22:03):
I think when people relax into that time, their animal is very often able to be with them and let go.
It really is quite beautiful.
Karen Wylie (22:16):
I so agree.
It gives new meaning to the question so many of us ask, "Is it time? Is it time for what?"
Gail Pope (22:30):
Yes, exactly.
Karen Wylie (22:34):
And in so many cases, we can allow the animal to choose when it's time from their perspective.
Gail Pope (22:44):
The bottom line is really, I think Mother Nature holds the clock or the stopwatch.
Karen Wylie (22:51):
When we allow that to happen.
All right.
I guess on that note, we will close, unless there is something else you would like to say.
Gail Pope (23:00):
I do not, you don't need to start me with more stories.
Otherwise I should talk forever.
Karen Wylie (23:04):
More stories.
More stories.
Gail Pope (23:07):
We're done for today.
Karen Wylie (23:09):
Oh goodness.
We hope that you have enjoyed hearing some stories that give you a new perspective on perhaps how your pet's perspective can help you understand spiritual transition and physical dying and death.
Hopefully looking at it in some new ways and considering some new ideas.
(23:31):
So with that, we will close and we'll look forward to seeing you next time.
Thank you for being with us.
Bye-bye.
Gail Pope (23:37):
Thank you so much.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
(23:59):
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website— BrightPathForPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
(24:20):
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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