August 26, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of The Personality Couch, we (licensed clinical psychologists Doc Bok and Doc Fish) use a fresh psychodynamic perspective to look at the misunderstood, quiet, awkward, and socially backwards schizoid. We explore the misunderstandings and stigmas surrounding schizoids, their emotional depth, and the historical perspectives that have shaped our understanding of this personality type. Our conversation highlights the internal struggles of schizoids, their coping mechanisms, and the rich inner lives they lead, often hidden from the outside world. We also take a look at the superpower of the schizoid and how they spot others’ disingenuousness. We emphasize the unique internal experiences of schizoids and the need for a compassionate approach in relationships and in clinical practice.
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Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Schizoid Personality 01:42 What do Schizoids Look Like? 03:30 Stigmatization of Schizoids 05:05 Historical Names & Schizoids’ Discovery 06:18 Kahlbaum’s Heboid Personality 06:47 Hoch’s Shut In Personality 07:05 Kraeplin’s Mildly Defective Personality 07:26 Bleuler’s Schizoidie Personality 08:07 Jung’s Introverted Personality 09:12 Menninger & Schizoid’s False Shell / Exterior 09:52 Winnicott & Schizoid's False Self 10:35 Guntrip on Depression & Anhedonia in Schizoids 12:26 Schizoids as Therapists 13:40 Akhtar’s Overt & Covert Personality Features 15:08 Nancy McWilliams’ Psychodynamic Schizoid 15:43 Attachment’s Influence on Schizoid 16:25 Schizoid’s Core Fears 18:32 Schizoid and Histrionic Connection 19:40 Schizoid’s Defense Mechanisms 23:03 Sense of Self & Castle Metaphor 24:08 Schizoid vs Obsessive Compulsive Personalities 24:38 The Colorful Inner World of Schizoids 27:40 Schizoids’ Superpower 30:30 Summary and Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice.
I'm your host, Doc Bok, and I'm herewith my co-host, Doc Fish.
We are both licensed clinicalpsychologists
in private practice, andtoday we continue
our series on schizoid personality.
(00:21):
What is a schizoid, you ask?
Well, the schizoid in our lives is the
family member who doesn't attendsocial gatherings
or if they do show up, they sit in thevery back and appear disengaged.
It's the client who has a hard time openingup in therapy and letting you in.
It's the friend who knows how to fix your
computer and speaks codebetter than small
(00:42):
talk.
Schizoids are kind of the misfits andmisunderstoods in our society.
So let's unpack the history of this
personality, the psychodynamicsof the schizoid, and our
interpretation of their complexinner workings.
Let's get to it.
I really think that schizoids are themost misunderstood personality.
(01:04):
Researchers even note that it's easy for providersto look at a schizoid individual
like a case or a specimen instead of theactual human being that they are.
And it's all because most people cannotunderstand a schizoid's experience.
Right, and that's not really helpful.
And honestly, a lot of theearlier research on
(01:26):
schizoid has only contributedto this stigma,
which is why we're doing this series.
So if you are a schizoid, we hope thatyou find this series validating.
And if you have a schizoidin your life, we
hope you are better ableto understand their
needs.
Okay, so let's dive into what schizoidpersonalities look like.
They are extremely sensitivesouls who use
(01:47):
withdrawal as their maindefense against an
overwhelming world.
So internally, they're very sensitiveand easily overstimulated.
They can come across as shy and socially
backwards, and they experienceemotion so powerfully
that they feel they have toseparate from that.
They fear closeness, butthey also long for
(02:09):
closeness, which is a sourceof internal conflict.
Right, yes.
So then externally, they can seem morecool and detached from others.
So others probably feel like they neverreally get to know them.
They can also seem unresponsiveemotionally,
even to major life eventslike a funeral or
(02:30):
a wedding.
However, research and ourclinical experience
does not support that schizoidsare unemotional.
They actually experience very strong emotions,but they won't let you know it.
Schizoid personalities are often confused withautism, though they're not the same,
which will have to dive in too muchdeeper in a different episode.
(02:54):
Yes, absolutely.
That is a big one that gets misconstrued.
Yeah.
So another one is that schizoids are also confusedwith schizophrenia, but they are
not the same thing.
So the schizoid personalitycan disintegrate
into schizophrenia at reallyunhealthy levels.
However, your average schizoid is not
(03:15):
psychotic, but schizoids aremisunderstood for many
reasons, including this sort of schiz,psychosis connection.
But we also experience them as odd, and thenthat different is seen as inferior.
McWilliams draws a parallelbetween sexual
minorities, historical stigmatization,misunderstandings,
(03:37):
and tendency to over pathologizetheir experiences.
She notes that schizoids as a minority of
personality feel deviantand feel like it's
unsafe to come out.
Their introversion and internaldynamics are
odd to those who have difficultyunderstanding
them so they're over pathologized.
This makes so much sense.
And I can see this withthe schizoids that
(03:59):
I've known personally andalso in clinical
practice.
Again, they're seen as different and thendon't fully feel safe being themselves.
And then I also think aboutthe American culture.
Like we're very extrovertedand narcissistic.
We like to shine and take the spotlightand talk a lot.
Schizoids are like the oppositeof all that.
(04:19):
They are quiet and reflective,not shiny and intrusive.
Right.
And I think an interesting side note, she
also mentioned that schizoidshave a radar
for detecting other schizoids,kind of just
like the gaydar of thosein the LGBTQ plus
community.
So interesting.
Yes, it's like a quiet I seeyou or I get you.
(04:44):
So theorists both then and now have had a hardtime wrapping their head around this
type, especially given thejuxtaposition of
their internal world versushow the social
world experiences them.
So let's start by visitingsome of the cool
names that theorists cameup with as schizoid
was just being discovered.
Sure. So schizoid as a personality type
(05:07):
started with theorists aroundthe late 1800s, early
1900s, and they observed a patternof personalities
that were quiet and reserved,eccentric, seclusive,
serious minded and unsociable.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
And then we started looking into schizoid
personalities since theseunsociable types
(05:27):
didn't seem to fit into the traditional
Freud psychoanalysis box thatwas so popular at
the time.
Right. Because schizoidpersonalities were
difficult for the theorists to understand
there were no roots in the libidinalor psychosexual development.
Big words.
But what this really meansis that schizoids
were detached from the sexualand aggressive
(05:49):
drives that Freud conceptualized and thatwere part of early psychoanalysis.
So the real work on schizoid began with
hypotheses and object relations,which looks at attachment
versus the drives in understandingpersonality.
Yes, that's key attachment.
Mm hmm.
So a few theorists weighed in on someinteresting names at the time.
(06:12):
So some thought that there was a
personality that was predisposedto schizophrenia and
psychosis.
The first one was Kahlbaum.
Well maybe he wasn't the first, but hewas a notable one to us anyway.
So Kahlbaum in 1890 with the cool name, he introducedthe term "heboid" to represent
the personality pattern that was
(06:33):
structurally connected to clinical"hebephrenia," which
later we called "disorganizedschizophrenia."
Mm.
So he noticed that split betweenthe self and others.
Mm hmm.
Then in 1910, Hoek discovered a shut-in
personality who did not have anatural desire to connect
with the environment, being reclusive and stubbornand inflexible in like a passive
(06:58):
way.
Mm hmm.
Basically like impermeable.
Ooh, that's interesting.
Okay, it sounds like they'reonto something.
Then we have Crayplin, whoaround 1919 thought
that there was a mildly defectivepersonality
style that stopped just short of breakingwith reality, as in schizophrenia.
So he noted that these typeswere prone to
(07:19):
fantasy and their own internalthoughts versus
engaging with the outside world.
Mm hmm.
Bueller in 1922-29 used theterm "schizoidie" to
describe that shut-in, suspicious,comfortably
dull person who might be incapableof discussion.
Right, I still use the term "schizoidie" to
(07:40):
describe "schizoid-like"features, so good
job with this name, Bleuler.
But essentially the external worlddoes not influence them.
They are comfortable being boring and
dull, and in fact, they preferit as it doesn't
draw attention to them.
Withdrawal and indifference is their defensemechanism to keep them safe.
(08:01):
But it doesn't mean they don't care.
Right, it's the external side,not the internal.
Mm hmm.
Jung, interestingly, who wasBleuler's student
in 1921, came up with a descriptionof introversion
that matched others' understandingof "schizoid."
Some think "schizoid" is pathological
introversion, but this is controversialin some circles.
(08:24):
It is, it is.
So, Jung, describing "schizoids,"quoted,
"They are mostly silent,inaccessible, hard
to understand.
They neither shine nor reveal themselves.
Their outward demeanor is inconspicuous,with no
desire to affect others, toimpress, influence,
or change them in any way, which may
actually turn into a disregardfor the comfort and
(08:47):
well-being of others.
One is distinctly aware, then, of the movementof feeling away from the object."
Ooh, that is so interesting.
Okay, so the other person inthe relationship is
aware of the detachment, orhow this "schizoid"
person moves away to be inside the self.
(09:09):
Mm hmm.
In the 1930s, Menninger noticed that thispersonality was multifaceted.
It presents a certain shell to the world,
but has more than meets theeye on the inside,
much like a turtle when youonly see this shell.
So he described this as a "false exteriorwith a genuine core."
(09:29):
Interesting.
I can see how the defense mechanism ofwithdrawal is only part of the story.
Like, it's not the full picture.
So in other words, these "schizoidpersonalities" are multifaceted.
Like they're not necessarily insincere.
I don't think that's whathe's saying here.
Just complex.
Like, there's more there than you see.
(09:49):
Mm hmm.
So that's a great transitionto Winnicott,
who proposed that "schizoids"have a false
self that protects their true self.
I personally think that "schizoids" don't
have the energy or the careto put into this
mask or that "false self."
That mask portrays a lack in emotionsand interpersonal skills.
Yeah, "false self."
(10:10):
I actually struggle with this language
because the "schizoid type,"in my experience, is
real.
But the world only sees partof that picture.
And I think that's what he's saying here.
So the "schizoid type" isn't tryingto be inauthentic.
Like they're just not putting effortinto what the world sees.
And that's exactly it.
(10:31):
Like that no effort comesout as indifference.
Mm hmm.
Let's jump to 1952 with Guntrip.
So he saw these personality types as
neutral observers who kept theirdistance and were
out of touch and, again, seeminglydifferent from other people.
I think this is fascinating.
So the patience that he wastreating called
(10:52):
their experienced oppression,but he noted
that it lacked that heavyblack inner sense
of brooding, of anger, ofguilt that shows
up in classic depression.
Ooh, that is really interesting.
So I think back to the concept ofanhedonia with "schizoid types."
That's actually in the DSM definition.
(11:13):
So anhedonia is lack of pleasure.
Anhedonia is also a criterionfor depression.
So a person lacks joy or pleasure in
activities that others typicallyfind pleasurable.
So certainly that can bepart of depression.
And it can also be what the schizoid typeis allowing the outside world to see.
(11:33):
This sense of like, I'm apathetic and
uninterested when really that'sjust part of the story.
It's not the full picture.
Right.
Then Guntrip also added toour understanding
of schizoid with the classicdilemma of the
schizoid individual, noting that he can
neither be in a relationshipwith another person nor
(11:54):
out of it without in various ways riskingthe loss of both his object and himself.
This is the conflict between closenessand distance, but also love and fear.
So like porcupines on a cold night,
schizoids choose to be cold anddistant so that the
other person doesn't intrude on themwith like their pricklies.
(12:18):
So I think of McWilliamshere who says,
come close for I am alone,but stay away for
I fear intrusion.
So another super duper interestingside note.
Guntrip apparently stated that
psychoanalysis is a profession byschizoids for schizoids.
Oh, wow.
(12:39):
Okay.
Yeah.
So research has shown thatfemale therapists
trend towards a more depressivepersonality,
but male therapists do trend towardsschizoid personalities.
What?
So my favorite part is thatthis makes sense
because therapy, like asa therapist creates
(12:59):
an environment where social needs are met andallowed to occur in a setting that is
obviously strictly boundary.
It's one sided.
So there's intimacy, but no impingement.
This makes so much sense.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
So I'm thinking about whatwe talked about in
the last episode, which wasthat many schizoids
(13:21):
can be found in math, science,technology, engineering.
But what you're saying isif they don't go
that route, they're probablya therapist or
a philosopher opining on these topics.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
This is so interesting.
Okay.
So going back to the researchers.
So Akhtar 1987 1992 timeframe,he's actually
(13:45):
made many contributions to thefield of personality
psychology and specifically personality
disorders by describing their overtobservable and covert
or under the surface qualities.
So schizoid personalities to the outside
world to overtly seem detached,boring, scattered,
(14:07):
very moral and asexual under the surface
though, or covertly, they'reextremely sensitive
and quote, emotionally needy, acutely
vigilant, creative, often perverseand vulnerable to
corruption.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So no one sees what the covert is though,like under the surface.
(14:30):
And again, as for schizoids, what the worldsees is only part of that picture.
Right.
They have the split of the self in the worldand then of the self and their needs.
So the schizoid sensitivity, emotionality
perversion, it exists, butthey can separate
from it.
They don't reject or deny or project it.
(14:54):
They just withdraw from anddetach from it.
Right.
So then the world is left viewing the
shell, just part of the picture,but not the full
story.
Exactly.
Okay.
But then let's fast forward the real star
in understanding the schizoidpersonality.
And our opinion is Nancy McWilliams who
(15:14):
came on the scene in 1994with literature that
really tried to capture the innerworkings of the schizoid.
Yeah.
McWilliams supported the conflict based approachinstead of the deficit approach.
So the conflict is betweenwanton closeness,
but finding it dangerous leadingto withdrawal.
So schizoids are scared ofbeing overwhelmed,
(15:37):
consumed, engulfed, and sothey choose distance.
Yes.
And this conflict is thoughtto arise from
early attachment and what is called micro
dissociations from an ill suited parentfor the highly sensitive child.
Okay.
In other words, the very sensitive child
(15:58):
learns to resort to their owninternal world since
their real world is either too
threatening, too neglectful, ora combination of both.
And then out of this early attachment
trauma, the defense mechanismof withdrawal comes
into play and the schizoidindividual often
(16:18):
uses fantasy and dissociationto cope with
the very overwhelming social world.
And this is why they have fearsthat all involve
connection with others becausein a relationship
they could be engulfed or enmeshed or
overstimulated, intruded upon,traumatized, controlled, etc.
(16:40):
Right.
Right.
So going back to early attachment, it'sthe relationship that's threatening.
It's scary.
Yeah.
Their attachment to others could then
obliterate their self, identity,individuality.
Others in the world could consume them toa point where they no longer exist.
(17:00):
So there's that fear of goingto pieces and
they can even try to physicallyhold themselves
together by wrapping ina blanket or going
into a closet or just wearinga coat all the
time.
That is so interesting.
So actually creating this like physicalshell for themselves.
Right. Yeah.
There's a strong need to protect their coreto be anchored and like held together.
(17:24):
That is so interesting.
Very similar to a turtle inthe turtle shell.
Yeah.
And I can see how being like such a
misunderstood type would contributeto that fear.
Like schizoids do not want to just belike the rest of the social world.
And I'm going back to that like cloaking,
like physically cloaking themselvesoftentimes,
(17:46):
like finding some type of actual physical
protective shell as an outergarment to protect
them from the social world.
Like that's interesting.
Yeah.
And this is why they tolerate abandonment
or distance and then theyseek strength and
identity and being alone.
Mm hmm.
Now I think of the psychodynamicdiagnostic
manual here, which tells usthat at more severe
(18:09):
levels of schizoid, theymay have some like
oddities or little idiosyncrasiesthat actually
serve to create a tolerable level of spacebetween themselves and others.
So this doesn't come from deficit orignorance of social expectations.
It's just a way to keep othersat arm's length.
(18:30):
Mm hmm.
So that that makes me think schizoid is essentiallythe opposite of histrionic.
Oh my goodness.
This is so interesting.
Tell me more.
Okay.
So in contrast to histrionics,schizoids are
like repulsed or repelled,scared, disgusted
by fusion with others.
(18:52):
So then they reject any of their own dependencyor neediness or clinginess.
This is so, so interesting.
Yeah.
And I can I can see how thislike opposites
attract dynamic would looklike a distance
or pursuer relationship, which is so,so common in couples therapy.
Mm hmm.
McWilliams actually wrotea bit about the
(19:13):
schizoid hysterical romanceand she even proposed
that there's a histrionic inside ofevery schizoid and vice versa.
This is just so fascinating.
I wish we could talk aboutthis more about
how personalities attract one another and
that schizoid hysterical romance,but save it.
(19:34):
We'll save it.
Maybe in a new episode, thatwould be fascinating.
Let's talk more about theschizoids defenses
and how they cope with thisworld that's so
threatening to their existence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll show this a little bit,but withdrawal
is a big one and it's to minimizestimulation
and intrusion and separate theself from the world.
(19:56):
So this is where we see them physically
going away or resorting tofantasy or into their
own minds for that stimulation.
Yeah.
The separation allows them to sit in the
logic and detach from any overwhelmingemotions,
which could also be calledintellectualization.
Right.
So these types can seem more heady or
(20:17):
intellectual, which is a way to keepfrom getting too pulled
into emotional content.
So keeping the social contenton a cerebral
level versus emotional level,like it feels
safer for them.
Yeah.
But then this can come offto other people
as like a flavor of narcissism or like an
(20:38):
isolated superiority.
But really, it's just a reaction to others'impingement and attempts at control.
Like how dare you force me intosocial participation?
Social scripts are silly andI refuse to engage.
Right.
Right.
But it can come across as intellectualsuperiority.
(20:59):
Like I'm not engaging with that becauseI'm better or smarter.
Like others can at least see it that way.
I don't know that schizoids actually are thinkingthat, but it can come across to
other people that way.
Sure.
Because really on the inside,they're just
trying to preserve theirown sense of self
by staying at a safe distancefrom the rest of
humanity, which is super interestingactually,
(21:21):
because even like schizophrenic patients areoften quite oppositional and stubborn.
So not dangerous, like not likefighting for power.
Just I'm in my shell.
Go away.
Right.
Yes.
And then there can also belike a disregard
for conventional social expectationsbecause
they reject being defined by others.
(21:44):
So being defined by otherswould mean that
they aren't separate, sothey don't exist.
And then social constructs are seenas like contrived and forced.
And they're just they'reso not about that.
Like they don't care.
Like you said, I'm in my shell.
Go away.
Right.
And then no wonder there's like an
indifference to an outright avoidanceof attention and
(22:07):
admiration.
They want to be ignored in their ownlittle shell, not celebrated.
They want space and they have no need forany kind of narcissistic supply.
Their self definition is internal.
Right.
So their needs for validation comefrom within the self.
They don't need social accolades any morethan a turtle wants you to pet them.
(22:29):
The turtle does not want you to pet them.
They don't like it.
Don't pet the turtle.
Exactly.
Anyway, another way to understand this is thatwe have a mom who wants her child to
be her, to enmesh and not to beits own separate being.
So then her external approvaland criticism
becomes threatening to thechild's own sense
(22:52):
of self.
So the child has to reject it.
The child finds their ownway and leans on
their own perspective ofthemselves in order
to exist and develop a sense of self.
I can see how this could becomelike an obsession.
So the schizoid has to find their identityseparate from the social world.
So they work really, reallyhard to fortify
(23:15):
and strengthen their internalpillar called
self.
So like constantly adding toit to strengthen it.
Just like how we would fortifyand strengthen
castles in medieval times,like use the best
materials so you're not overtakenfrom the outside in.
Exactly.
Like fortify that shell, protect thatinside core sense of self.
(23:40):
And sometimes I think theycan overcompensate
in their pursuit of likeauthenticity, being
actually really highly self-critical and
they can become very isolatedand demoralized.
Now, interestingly, at leastto me and McWilliams
book, the only personality thatshe differentiates
between schizoid is the obsessivecompulsive personalities.
(24:05):
Now that is really, really interesting.
And I think this is where we have to look
at the motivations of thepersonality shell.
Like personalities are agobstopper, right?
What's on the outside doesn't necessarilymatch what's on the inside at the core.
So here we have to look at does the shell
exist to bring people in orto keep them out?
(24:28):
If it's to keep them out, it's schizoid.
If it's to bring them in,it's compulsive.
Exactly.
And so again, I just, it'sreally important
to understand the defensesand how schizoids
cope with the world to geta peek into what
they're protecting insidetheir minds or the
shell.
I picked out a couple quotesfrom McWilliams
(24:49):
and one from Milan that I thinkreally highlights
the internal understanding of a schizoid.
Okay.
So the first one from McWilliamsis, "Some
schizoid individuals feelpain of an intensity
so excruciating as to require their defensivedetachment in order to endure it."
Wow.
(25:10):
This actually reminds me of borderline.
We're not talking about thesame personality
by far, but the oversensitivityto the world,
like everything hurts.
So with the case of the schizoid though,they withdraw and dissociate to cope.
So this does go along with my favorite quoteever about schizoids from Milan.
(25:33):
So he said, "When the going gets tough,the schizoid gets going."
Okay.
That's great.
Thank you, Milan.
It makes sense. Yeah.
So basically when it gets hard,the skis withdraws.
So if you're married to aschizoid, you may
not see them for stretchesof time when there's
a lot going on at work or home.
Right.
Okay.
(25:53):
The last one from McWilliams is that
schizoids are startlingly awareof features of their
inner lives that tend tobe unconscious in
individuals with other kindsof personality.
Because they spend so much energy
exploring all the nooks and cranniesof their ultra
(26:14):
fortified mind castle.
Like they know every thoughtor fantasy or
tendency, and they're not afraid to go to
that cobweb filled roomthat others avoid,
like, or to fantasize abouttaboo things because
it's a castle and everything is safe for
exploration, including socially forbiddentopics and thoughts.
(26:38):
Exactly.
So they have no defenses against all the
things others are able to avoidin different kinds
of ways.
So let's think about this.
Like we are all boxes of crayons.
Every human, every personality originally
comes as a full box of crayonswith all of
the same colors, but through temperament, attachment,environment, and experiences,
(27:03):
we all learn to use our colorsdifferently,
resulting in those differentdefense mechanisms,
like denying the existence of colors orprojecting them or hiding them.
Yes.
Yeah.
So most temperaments willpull out some colors
from the crayon box or throwthem out or maybe
favor some hues over others,but not the schizoid.
(27:24):
Like they hoard the whole box of crayonsinside and you never know it.
Right.
And the schizoid is also like, how do you
all not understand thatwe all have all of
the colors?
Right.
Right.
So using another metaphorhere, like in the
card game of life, schizoidsunderstand that
(27:46):
the full deck comes with 52 cards.
So they know when someoneis holding an ace
up their sleeve or throughoutall the wild
cards.
Like they see when someone is cheating throughlife by using defense mechanisms.
Yes.
Yes.
So schizoids are actuallysuper colorful on
the inside, but they keeptheir box closed.
(28:07):
Right.
They only show their externalbox, which lacks color.
And then that obviouslycan be off putting
to others, but it does workin their favor
because then others are notintruding on that.
No one wants that like boring graybox of crayons over there.
They don't want to open it up.
No one wants to pick out a color or throw
it back in their face orreally just no one
(28:29):
has anything to work with tointrude upon them.
Right.
Yes.
Yes.
But inside of that box, ifyou ever have the
privilege to see it, it isfilled with color,
intricacies and intrigue.
Like imagine getting to color withall the hues in the mind.
Mm hmm.
(28:49):
Because they're not threatenedby any color.
They have all of the colors.
They're in tune with their black darknessperversion, destructive desires or their
gray nihilism or with their red potentialfor passion and anger.
So there's no denial of any color likeother personalities might do.
It's just a detachment.
(29:10):
I think that they color with all of the
colors in their head, like infantasy, but not in
real life.
Right.
The fantasy world is rich and vibrant.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
And it just notes that theyhave access to
their madness and may feellike they're on
the edge of psychosis orinsanity, which I
think, again, is because they have access
(29:32):
to all the colors.
I think it's easy for them to feel others
might be gaslighting themor to feel like they
are the one who is crazy because like howcan others not see the colors?
Like how can other people lieto themselves like that?
Right.
Yeah.
So let's let's bring this back aroundand tie this together.
So the skis, because theyhave access to all
(29:53):
the nooks and crannies ofthe human psyche,
it gives them a hypersensitivity tospotting others' fakeness.
Like they can sniff out a rat or in other
words, one of their superpowersis being able
to spot others' defense mechanisms.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
So then this creates two things maybe.
(30:14):
So one is a pushback against social scriptsbecause they're not authentic.
And then two, at times itcan create a lack
of empathy for others' inabilityto see their
colors.
Yes, I can see how thatwould be the case.
Yeah.
All right.
So bringing this kind of all into focusand summarizing what we talked about.
(30:35):
So skisoids are complex personality types
that are grossly misunderstoodin our social
world and psychological research has done
no favors and continuingto misinterpret and
misattribute the observable behaviorsof the skisoid.
And researchers seem to actjust like everybody
(30:55):
else, putting their own colorsonto the skisoid
instead of taking the time to exploreinside the shelf.
Yeah.
We do have to hand it tothe psychodynamic
guru, Nancy McWilliams,who has given us a
better understanding of the complexinner world of the skisoid.
So we now understand that skisoids have a
(31:16):
rich imagination and strongemotions and social
perceptiveness so attunedthat they protect
themselves by withdrawingand detaching from
their own needs from othersand from the world.
Yes, yes.
And I would guess that McWilliamswas able
to bring us such thoroughresearch since she
reportedly is or was married to a skisoid
(31:39):
who probably felt like Nancywas safe enough
to be able to explore insidethe skisoid shell.
So even still, thanks to her patience and
persistence, we are betterable to understand
these types in relationshipsand in clinical work.
And on that note, that's a wrap.
So thank you for joining us today on thisepisode of the personality couch.
(32:03):
Make sure to check out ourblogs that coincide
with these episodes at www.personalitycouch.com.
And as always, don't forget to give us a
thumbs up or rate and reviewus on your favorite
podcast app and on YouTube, hit that bell soyou don't miss a single episode of our
skisoid personality series.
Be well, be kind, and we'll see you nexttime on the personality couch.
(32:29):
This podcast is for informationalpurposes
only and does not constitutea professional
relationship.
If you're in need of professional help,
please seek out appropriate resourcesin your area.
Information about clinical trends or
diagnoses are discussed in broadand universal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice.
I'm your host, Doc Bok, and I'm herewith my co-host, Doc Fish.
We are both licensed clinicalpsychologists
in private practice, andtoday we continue
our series on schizoid personality.
(00:21):
What is a schizoid, you ask?
Well, the schizoid in our lives is the
family member who doesn't attendsocial gatherings
or if they do show up, they sit in thevery back and appear disengaged.
It's the client who has a hard time openingup in therapy and letting you in.
It's the friend who knows how to fix your
computer and speaks codebetter than small
(00:42):
talk.
Schizoids are kind of the misfits andmisunderstoods in our society.
So let's unpack the history of this
personality, the psychodynamicsof the schizoid, and our
interpretation of their complexinner workings.
Let's get to it.
I really think that schizoids are themost misunderstood personality.
(01:04):
Researchers even note that it's easy for providersto look at a schizoid individual
like a case or a specimen instead of theactual human being that they are.
And it's all because most people cannotunderstand a schizoid's experience.
Right, and that's not really helpful.
And honestly, a lot of theearlier research on
(01:26):
schizoid has only contributedto this stigma,
which is why we're doing this series.
So if you are a schizoid, we hope thatyou find this series validating.
And if you have a schizoidin your life, we
hope you are better ableto understand their
needs.
Okay, so let's dive into what schizoidpersonalities look like.
They are extremely sensitivesouls who use
(01:47):
withdrawal as their maindefense against an
overwhelming world.
So internally, they're very sensitiveand easily overstimulated.
They can come across as shy and socially
backwards, and they experienceemotion so powerfully
that they feel they have toseparate from that.
They fear closeness, butthey also long for
(02:09):
closeness, which is a sourceof internal conflict.
Right, yes.
So then externally, they can seem morecool and detached from others.
So others probably feel like they neverreally get to know them.
They can also seem unresponsiveemotionally,
even to major life eventslike a funeral or
(02:30):
a wedding.
However, research and ourclinical experience
does not support that schizoidsare unemotional.
They actually experience very strong emotions,but they won't let you know it.
Schizoid personalities are often confused withautism, though they're not the same,
which will have to dive in too muchdeeper in a different episode.
(02:54):
Yes, absolutely.
That is a big one that gets misconstrued.
Yeah.
So another one is that schizoids are also confusedwith schizophrenia, but they are
not the same thing.
So the schizoid personalitycan disintegrate
into schizophrenia at reallyunhealthy levels.
However, your average schizoid is not
(03:15):
psychotic, but schizoids aremisunderstood for many
reasons, including this sort of schiz,psychosis connection.
But we also experience them as odd, and thenthat different is seen as inferior.
McWilliams draws a parallelbetween sexual
minorities, historical stigmatization,misunderstandings,
(03:37):
and tendency to over pathologizetheir experiences.
She notes that schizoids as a minority of
personality feel deviantand feel like it's
unsafe to come out.
Their introversion and internaldynamics are
odd to those who have difficultyunderstanding
them so they're over pathologized.
This makes so much sense.
And I can see this withthe schizoids that
(03:59):
I've known personally andalso in clinical
practice.
Again, they're seen as different and thendon't fully feel safe being themselves.
And then I also think aboutthe American culture.
Like we're very extrovertedand narcissistic.
We like to shine and take the spotlightand talk a lot.
Schizoids are like the oppositeof all that.
(04:19):
They are quiet and reflective,not shiny and intrusive.
Right.
And I think an interesting side note, she
also mentioned that schizoidshave a radar
for detecting other schizoids,kind of just
like the gaydar of thosein the LGBTQ plus
community.
So interesting.
Yes, it's like a quiet I seeyou or I get you.
(04:44):
So theorists both then and now have had a hardtime wrapping their head around this
type, especially given thejuxtaposition of
their internal world versushow the social
world experiences them.
So let's start by visitingsome of the cool
names that theorists cameup with as schizoid
was just being discovered.
Sure. So schizoid as a personality type
(05:07):
started with theorists aroundthe late 1800s, early
1900s, and they observed a patternof personalities
that were quiet and reserved,eccentric, seclusive,
serious minded and unsociable.
Mm hmm.
Yep.
And then we started looking into schizoid
personalities since theseunsociable types
(05:27):
didn't seem to fit into the traditional
Freud psychoanalysis box thatwas so popular at
the time.
Right. Because schizoidpersonalities were
difficult for the theorists to understand
there were no roots in the libidinalor psychosexual development.
Big words.
But what this really meansis that schizoids
were detached from the sexualand aggressive
(05:49):
drives that Freud conceptualized and thatwere part of early psychoanalysis.
So the real work on schizoid began with
hypotheses and object relations,which looks at attachment
versus the drives in understandingpersonality.
Yes, that's key attachment.
Mm hmm.
So a few theorists weighed in on someinteresting names at the time.
(06:12):
So some thought that there was a
personality that was predisposedto schizophrenia and
psychosis.
The first one was Kahlbaum.
Well maybe he wasn't the first, but hewas a notable one to us anyway.
So Kahlbaum in 1890 with the cool name, he introducedthe term "heboid" to represent
the personality pattern that was
(06:33):
structurally connected to clinical"hebephrenia," which
later we called "disorganizedschizophrenia."
Mm.
So he noticed that split betweenthe self and others.
Mm hmm.
Then in 1910, Hoek discovered a shut-in
personality who did not have anatural desire to connect
with the environment, being reclusive and stubbornand inflexible in like a passive
(06:58):
way.
Mm hmm.
Basically like impermeable.
Ooh, that's interesting.
Okay, it sounds like they'reonto something.
Then we have Crayplin, whoaround 1919 thought
that there was a mildly defectivepersonality
style that stopped just short of breakingwith reality, as in schizophrenia.
So he noted that these typeswere prone to
(07:19):
fantasy and their own internalthoughts versus
engaging with the outside world.
Mm hmm.
Bueller in 1922-29 used theterm "schizoidie" to
describe that shut-in, suspicious,comfortably
dull person who might be incapableof discussion.
Right, I still use the term "schizoidie" to
(07:40):
describe "schizoid-like"features, so good
job with this name, Bleuler.
But essentially the external worlddoes not influence them.
They are comfortable being boring and
dull, and in fact, they preferit as it doesn't
draw attention to them.
Withdrawal and indifference is their defensemechanism to keep them safe.
(08:01):
But it doesn't mean they don't care.
Right, it's the external side,not the internal.
Mm hmm.
Jung, interestingly, who wasBleuler's student
in 1921, came up with a descriptionof introversion
that matched others' understandingof "schizoid."
Some think "schizoid" is pathological
introversion, but this is controversialin some circles.
(08:24):
It is, it is.
So, Jung, describing "schizoids,"quoted,
"They are mostly silent,inaccessible, hard
to understand.
They neither shine nor reveal themselves.
Their outward demeanor is inconspicuous,with no
desire to affect others, toimpress, influence,
or change them in any way, which may
actually turn into a disregardfor the comfort and
(08:47):
well-being of others.
One is distinctly aware, then, of the movementof feeling away from the object."
Ooh, that is so interesting.
Okay, so the other person inthe relationship is
aware of the detachment, orhow this "schizoid"
person moves away to be inside the self.
(09:09):
Mm hmm.
In the 1930s, Menninger noticed that thispersonality was multifaceted.
It presents a certain shell to the world,
but has more than meets theeye on the inside,
much like a turtle when youonly see this shell.
So he described this as a "false exteriorwith a genuine core."
(09:29):
Interesting.
I can see how the defense mechanism ofwithdrawal is only part of the story.
Like, it's not the full picture.
So in other words, these "schizoidpersonalities" are multifaceted.
Like they're not necessarily insincere.
I don't think that's whathe's saying here.
Just complex.
Like, there's more there than you see.
(09:49):
Mm hmm.
So that's a great transitionto Winnicott,
who proposed that "schizoids"have a false
self that protects their true self.
I personally think that "schizoids" don't
have the energy or the careto put into this
mask or that "false self."
That mask portrays a lack in emotionsand interpersonal skills.
Yeah, "false self."
(10:10):
I actually struggle with this language
because the "schizoid type,"in my experience, is
real.
But the world only sees partof that picture.
And I think that's what he's saying here.
So the "schizoid type" isn't tryingto be inauthentic.
Like they're just not putting effortinto what the world sees.
And that's exactly it.
(10:31):
Like that no effort comesout as indifference.
Mm hmm.
Let's jump to 1952 with Guntrip.
So he saw these personality types as
neutral observers who kept theirdistance and were
out of touch and, again, seeminglydifferent from other people.
I think this is fascinating.
So the patience that he wastreating called
(10:52):
their experienced oppression,but he noted
that it lacked that heavyblack inner sense
of brooding, of anger, ofguilt that shows
up in classic depression.
Ooh, that is really interesting.
So I think back to the concept ofanhedonia with "schizoid types."
That's actually in the DSM definition.
(11:13):
So anhedonia is lack of pleasure.
Anhedonia is also a criterionfor depression.
So a person lacks joy or pleasure in
activities that others typicallyfind pleasurable.
So certainly that can bepart of depression.
And it can also be what the schizoid typeis allowing the outside world to see.
(11:33):
This sense of like, I'm apathetic and
uninterested when really that'sjust part of the story.
It's not the full picture.
Right.
Then Guntrip also added toour understanding
of schizoid with the classicdilemma of the
schizoid individual, noting that he can
neither be in a relationshipwith another person nor
(11:54):
out of it without in various ways riskingthe loss of both his object and himself.
This is the conflict between closenessand distance, but also love and fear.
So like porcupines on a cold night,
schizoids choose to be cold anddistant so that the
other person doesn't intrude on themwith like their pricklies.
(12:18):
So I think of McWilliamshere who says,
come close for I am alone,but stay away for
I fear intrusion.
So another super duper interestingside note.
Guntrip apparently stated that
psychoanalysis is a profession byschizoids for schizoids.
Oh, wow.
(12:39):
Okay.
Yeah.
So research has shown thatfemale therapists
trend towards a more depressivepersonality,
but male therapists do trend towardsschizoid personalities.
What?
So my favorite part is thatthis makes sense
because therapy, like asa therapist creates
(12:59):
an environment where social needs are met andallowed to occur in a setting that is
obviously strictly boundary.
It's one sided.
So there's intimacy, but no impingement.
This makes so much sense.
Oh my goodness.
Okay.
So I'm thinking about whatwe talked about in
the last episode, which wasthat many schizoids
(13:21):
can be found in math, science,technology, engineering.
But what you're saying isif they don't go
that route, they're probablya therapist or
a philosopher opining on these topics.
Yes.
Right.
Yeah.
This is so interesting.
Okay.
So going back to the researchers.
So Akhtar 1987 1992 timeframe,he's actually
(13:45):
made many contributions to thefield of personality
psychology and specifically personality
disorders by describing their overtobservable and covert
or under the surface qualities.
So schizoid personalities to the outside
world to overtly seem detached,boring, scattered,
(14:07):
very moral and asexual under the surface
though, or covertly, they'reextremely sensitive
and quote, emotionally needy, acutely
vigilant, creative, often perverseand vulnerable to
corruption.
Interesting.
Yeah.
So no one sees what the covert is though,like under the surface.
(14:30):
And again, as for schizoids, what the worldsees is only part of that picture.
Right.
They have the split of the self in the worldand then of the self and their needs.
So the schizoid sensitivity, emotionality
perversion, it exists, butthey can separate
from it.
They don't reject or deny or project it.
(14:54):
They just withdraw from anddetach from it.
Right.
So then the world is left viewing the
shell, just part of the picture,but not the full
story.
Exactly.
Okay.
But then let's fast forward the real star
in understanding the schizoidpersonality.
And our opinion is Nancy McWilliams who
(15:14):
came on the scene in 1994with literature that
really tried to capture the innerworkings of the schizoid.
Yeah.
McWilliams supported the conflict based approachinstead of the deficit approach.
So the conflict is betweenwanton closeness,
but finding it dangerous leadingto withdrawal.
So schizoids are scared ofbeing overwhelmed,
(15:37):
consumed, engulfed, and sothey choose distance.
Yes.
And this conflict is thoughtto arise from
early attachment and what is called micro
dissociations from an ill suited parentfor the highly sensitive child.
Okay.
In other words, the very sensitive child
(15:58):
learns to resort to their owninternal world since
their real world is either too
threatening, too neglectful, ora combination of both.
And then out of this early attachment
trauma, the defense mechanismof withdrawal comes
into play and the schizoidindividual often
(16:18):
uses fantasy and dissociationto cope with
the very overwhelming social world.
And this is why they have fearsthat all involve
connection with others becausein a relationship
they could be engulfed or enmeshed or
overstimulated, intruded upon,traumatized, controlled, etc.
(16:40):
Right.
Right.
So going back to early attachment, it'sthe relationship that's threatening.
It's scary.
Yeah.
Their attachment to others could then
obliterate their self, identity,individuality.
Others in the world could consume them toa point where they no longer exist.
(17:00):
So there's that fear of goingto pieces and
they can even try to physicallyhold themselves
together by wrapping ina blanket or going
into a closet or just wearinga coat all the
time.
That is so interesting.
So actually creating this like physicalshell for themselves.
Right. Yeah.
There's a strong need to protect their coreto be anchored and like held together.
(17:24):
That is so interesting.
Very similar to a turtle inthe turtle shell.
Yeah.
And I can see how being like such a
misunderstood type would contributeto that fear.
Like schizoids do not want to just belike the rest of the social world.
And I'm going back to that like cloaking,
like physically cloaking themselvesoftentimes,
(17:46):
like finding some type of actual physical
protective shell as an outergarment to protect
them from the social world.
Like that's interesting.
Yeah.
And this is why they tolerate abandonment
or distance and then theyseek strength and
identity and being alone.
Mm hmm.
Now I think of the psychodynamicdiagnostic
manual here, which tells usthat at more severe
(18:09):
levels of schizoid, theymay have some like
oddities or little idiosyncrasiesthat actually
serve to create a tolerable level of spacebetween themselves and others.
So this doesn't come from deficit orignorance of social expectations.
It's just a way to keep othersat arm's length.
(18:30):
Mm hmm.
So that that makes me think schizoid is essentiallythe opposite of histrionic.
Oh my goodness.
This is so interesting.
Tell me more.
Okay.
So in contrast to histrionics,schizoids are
like repulsed or repelled,scared, disgusted
by fusion with others.
(18:52):
So then they reject any of their own dependencyor neediness or clinginess.
This is so, so interesting.
Yeah.
And I can I can see how thislike opposites
attract dynamic would looklike a distance
or pursuer relationship, which is so,so common in couples therapy.
Mm hmm.
McWilliams actually wrotea bit about the
(19:13):
schizoid hysterical romanceand she even proposed
that there's a histrionic inside ofevery schizoid and vice versa.
This is just so fascinating.
I wish we could talk aboutthis more about
how personalities attract one another and
that schizoid hysterical romance,but save it.
(19:34):
We'll save it.
Maybe in a new episode, thatwould be fascinating.
Let's talk more about theschizoids defenses
and how they cope with thisworld that's so
threatening to their existence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'll show this a little bit,but withdrawal
is a big one and it's to minimizestimulation
and intrusion and separate theself from the world.
(19:56):
So this is where we see them physically
going away or resorting tofantasy or into their
own minds for that stimulation.
Yeah.
The separation allows them to sit in the
logic and detach from any overwhelmingemotions,
which could also be calledintellectualization.
Right.
So these types can seem more heady or
(20:17):
intellectual, which is a way to keepfrom getting too pulled
into emotional content.
So keeping the social contenton a cerebral
level versus emotional level,like it feels
safer for them.
Yeah.
But then this can come offto other people
as like a flavor of narcissism or like an
(20:38):
isolated superiority.
But really, it's just a reaction to others'impingement and attempts at control.
Like how dare you force me intosocial participation?
Social scripts are silly andI refuse to engage.
Right.
Right.
But it can come across as intellectualsuperiority.
(20:59):
Like I'm not engaging with that becauseI'm better or smarter.
Like others can at least see it that way.
I don't know that schizoids actually are thinkingthat, but it can come across to
other people that way.
Sure.
Because really on the inside,they're just
trying to preserve theirown sense of self
by staying at a safe distancefrom the rest of
humanity, which is super interestingactually,
(21:21):
because even like schizophrenic patients areoften quite oppositional and stubborn.
So not dangerous, like not likefighting for power.
Just I'm in my shell.
Go away.
Right.
Yes.
And then there can also belike a disregard
for conventional social expectationsbecause
they reject being defined by others.
(21:44):
So being defined by otherswould mean that
they aren't separate, sothey don't exist.
And then social constructs are seenas like contrived and forced.
And they're just they'reso not about that.
Like they don't care.
Like you said, I'm in my shell.
Go away.
Right.
And then no wonder there's like an
indifference to an outright avoidanceof attention and
(22:07):
admiration.
They want to be ignored in their ownlittle shell, not celebrated.
They want space and they have no need forany kind of narcissistic supply.
Their self definition is internal.
Right.
So their needs for validation comefrom within the self.
They don't need social accolades any morethan a turtle wants you to pet them.
(22:29):
The turtle does not want you to pet them.
They don't like it.
Don't pet the turtle.
Exactly.
Anyway, another way to understand this is thatwe have a mom who wants her child to
be her, to enmesh and not to beits own separate being.
So then her external approvaland criticism
becomes threatening to thechild's own sense
(22:52):
of self.
So the child has to reject it.
The child finds their ownway and leans on
their own perspective ofthemselves in order
to exist and develop a sense of self.
I can see how this could becomelike an obsession.
So the schizoid has to find their identityseparate from the social world.
So they work really, reallyhard to fortify
(23:15):
and strengthen their internalpillar called
self.
So like constantly adding toit to strengthen it.
Just like how we would fortifyand strengthen
castles in medieval times,like use the best
materials so you're not overtakenfrom the outside in.
Exactly.
Like fortify that shell, protect thatinside core sense of self.
(23:40):
And sometimes I think theycan overcompensate
in their pursuit of likeauthenticity, being
actually really highly self-critical and
they can become very isolatedand demoralized.
Now, interestingly, at leastto me and McWilliams
book, the only personality thatshe differentiates
between schizoid is the obsessivecompulsive personalities.
(24:05):
Now that is really, really interesting.
And I think this is where we have to look
at the motivations of thepersonality shell.
Like personalities are agobstopper, right?
What's on the outside doesn't necessarilymatch what's on the inside at the core.
So here we have to look at does the shell
exist to bring people in orto keep them out?
(24:28):
If it's to keep them out, it's schizoid.
If it's to bring them in,it's compulsive.
Exactly.
And so again, I just, it'sreally important
to understand the defensesand how schizoids
cope with the world to geta peek into what
they're protecting insidetheir minds or the
shell.
I picked out a couple quotesfrom McWilliams
(24:49):
and one from Milan that I thinkreally highlights
the internal understanding of a schizoid.
Okay.
So the first one from McWilliamsis, "Some
schizoid individuals feelpain of an intensity
so excruciating as to require their defensivedetachment in order to endure it."
Wow.
(25:10):
This actually reminds me of borderline.
We're not talking about thesame personality
by far, but the oversensitivityto the world,
like everything hurts.
So with the case of the schizoid though,they withdraw and dissociate to cope.
So this does go along with my favorite quoteever about schizoids from Milan.
(25:33):
So he said, "When the going gets tough,the schizoid gets going."
Okay.
That's great.
Thank you, Milan.
It makes sense. Yeah.
So basically when it gets hard,the skis withdraws.
So if you're married to aschizoid, you may
not see them for stretchesof time when there's
a lot going on at work or home.
Right.
Okay.
(25:53):
The last one from McWilliams is that
schizoids are startlingly awareof features of their
inner lives that tend tobe unconscious in
individuals with other kindsof personality.
Because they spend so much energy
exploring all the nooks and cranniesof their ultra
(26:14):
fortified mind castle.
Like they know every thoughtor fantasy or
tendency, and they're not afraid to go to
that cobweb filled roomthat others avoid,
like, or to fantasize abouttaboo things because
it's a castle and everything is safe for
exploration, including socially forbiddentopics and thoughts.
(26:38):
Exactly.
So they have no defenses against all the
things others are able to avoidin different kinds
of ways.
So let's think about this.
Like we are all boxes of crayons.
Every human, every personality originally
comes as a full box of crayonswith all of
the same colors, but through temperament, attachment,environment, and experiences,
(27:03):
we all learn to use our colorsdifferently,
resulting in those differentdefense mechanisms,
like denying the existence of colors orprojecting them or hiding them.
Yes.
Yeah.
So most temperaments willpull out some colors
from the crayon box or throwthem out or maybe
favor some hues over others,but not the schizoid.
(27:24):
Like they hoard the whole box of crayonsinside and you never know it.
Right.
And the schizoid is also like, how do you
all not understand thatwe all have all of
the colors?
Right.
Right.
So using another metaphorhere, like in the
card game of life, schizoidsunderstand that
(27:46):
the full deck comes with 52 cards.
So they know when someoneis holding an ace
up their sleeve or throughoutall the wild
cards.
Like they see when someone is cheating throughlife by using defense mechanisms.
Yes.
Yes.
So schizoids are actuallysuper colorful on
the inside, but they keeptheir box closed.
(28:07):
Right.
They only show their externalbox, which lacks color.
And then that obviouslycan be off putting
to others, but it does workin their favor
because then others are notintruding on that.
No one wants that like boring graybox of crayons over there.
They don't want to open it up.
No one wants to pick out a color or throw
it back in their face orreally just no one
(28:29):
has anything to work with tointrude upon them.
Right.
Yes.
Yes.
But inside of that box, ifyou ever have the
privilege to see it, it isfilled with color,
intricacies and intrigue.
Like imagine getting to color withall the hues in the mind.
Mm hmm.
(28:49):
Because they're not threatenedby any color.
They have all of the colors.
They're in tune with their black darknessperversion, destructive desires or their
gray nihilism or with their red potentialfor passion and anger.
So there's no denial of any color likeother personalities might do.
It's just a detachment.
(29:10):
I think that they color with all of the
colors in their head, like infantasy, but not in
real life.
Right.
The fantasy world is rich and vibrant.
Yeah.
Mm hmm.
And it just notes that theyhave access to
their madness and may feellike they're on
the edge of psychosis orinsanity, which I
think, again, is because they have access
(29:32):
to all the colors.
I think it's easy for them to feel others
might be gaslighting themor to feel like they
are the one who is crazy because like howcan others not see the colors?
Like how can other people lieto themselves like that?
Right.
Yeah.
So let's let's bring this back aroundand tie this together.
So the skis, because theyhave access to all
(29:53):
the nooks and crannies ofthe human psyche,
it gives them a hypersensitivity tospotting others' fakeness.
Like they can sniff out a rat or in other
words, one of their superpowersis being able
to spot others' defense mechanisms.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
So then this creates two things maybe.
(30:14):
So one is a pushback against social scriptsbecause they're not authentic.
And then two, at times itcan create a lack
of empathy for others' inabilityto see their
colors.
Yes, I can see how thatwould be the case.
Yeah.
All right.
So bringing this kind of all into focusand summarizing what we talked about.
(30:35):
So skisoids are complex personality types
that are grossly misunderstoodin our social
world and psychological research has done
no favors and continuingto misinterpret and
misattribute the observable behaviorsof the skisoid.
And researchers seem to actjust like everybody
(30:55):
else, putting their own colorsonto the skisoid
instead of taking the time to exploreinside the shelf.
Yeah.
We do have to hand it tothe psychodynamic
guru, Nancy McWilliams,who has given us a
better understanding of the complexinner world of the skisoid.
So we now understand that skisoids have a
(31:16):
rich imagination and strongemotions and social
perceptiveness so attunedthat they protect
themselves by withdrawingand detaching from
their own needs from othersand from the world.
Yes, yes.
And I would guess that McWilliamswas able
to bring us such thoroughresearch since she
reportedly is or was married to a skisoid
(31:39):
who probably felt like Nancywas safe enough
to be able to explore insidethe skisoid shell.
So even still, thanks to her patience and
persistence, we are betterable to understand
these types in relationshipsand in clinical work.
And on that note, that's a wrap.
So thank you for joining us today on thisepisode of the personality couch.
(32:03):
Make sure to check out ourblogs that coincide
with these episodes at www.personalitycouch.com.
And as always, don't forget to give us a
thumbs up or rate and reviewus on your favorite
podcast app and on YouTube, hit that bell soyou don't miss a single episode of our
skisoid personality series.
Be well, be kind, and we'll see you nexttime on the personality couch.
(32:29):
This podcast is for informationalpurposes
only and does not constitutea professional
relationship.
If you're in need of professional help,
please seek out appropriate resourcesin your area.
Information about clinical trends or
diagnoses are discussed in broadand universal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
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