December 2, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of the Personality Couch Podcast, we (licensed clinical psychologists Doc Bok and Doc Fish) dive into the origins, diagnostic criteria, and oddities associated with schizotypal personality disorder and what it means to be almost psychotic, but not quite. We unpack idiosyncrasies and “cognitive slippage” of schizotypals that include odd speech patterns, suspiciousness, emotional expression, and social anxiety. This episode also highlights the importance of cultural context in diagnosis and not overpathologizing trends or religious norms. We also explore the overlap with and risk of schizophrenia in schizotypals, along with long-term implications of living in a quasi-psychotic cognitive space.
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Chapters 00:00 Intro & History of Schizotypal Personality 01:15 DSM Criteria Schizotypal Personality 02:59 Ideas of Reference 05:35 Odd Beliefs and Magical Thinking 08:18 Exploring Cultural Oddities vs Psychosis 11:05 Unusual Perceptual Experiences 12:44 Odd Thinking & Speech 17:45 Suspiciousness and Paranoia 18:34 Emotional Expression, Behavior, and Appearance 20:13 Lack of Close Relationships and Anxiety 23:42 Schizotypal Differential Diagnosis 24:46 Schizotypals’ Relationship to Schizophrenia 29:33 Summary and Conclusion
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice. I'm yourhost, Doc Bok,
and I'm here with my co-host,Doc Fish. We
are both licensed clinicalpsychologists in
private practice, and todaywe are continuing
our schizotypal personalityseries. In this
(00:22):
episode, we unpack the ninesigns and symptoms
of schizotypal personality. We talk at
length about what it means tobe in the gray area
of almost psychotic, butnot quite, and how
beliefs, speech, behavior,and interactions
with others can give us clues about what
lies underneath. This is afascinating one, so
(00:44):
we better jump in.
Okay, so schizotypal madeits appearance in
the DSM-III in 1980, as itwas split off from
schizoid personality. Researchers and
clinicians found that there wasa pre-psychotic character
that was similar to schizophrenia,but not
fully psychotic, but alsounique from schizoid
as well. So schizotypal cameon the scene to
(01:07):
describe a quasi-psychotic, schizoid,schizophrenia-like
character.
Yes, that's correct.
Mm-hmm. So let's open theDSM and actually
talk about what this personalitylooks like
when it's clinically significantor even diagnostic.
Absolutely. Okay, so first off, for a
(01:28):
personality disorder, it has tobe lifelong and pervasive.
It is not a bad day or badseason. It's stable
and enduring, and it's notsubstance-induced.
That's a different disorder.
Right, and if you followedalong in our schizoid
series, you're going to noticea lot of overlap
here. Schizoid and schizotypal have very similarorigins, and they're both part of
(01:53):
the cluster A personalitydisorders in the DSM
or what's called odd or eccentricpersonalities.
So both have challenges interpersonally,and
there's an overall low needfor relationships
and social interactions are enduredwith discomfort.
Exactly, yeah. So then thebiggest difference
with schizotypal is the odditiesand eccentric
(02:16):
thoughts, sensory experiences,and behavior. This
is what tells us there is moregoing on and puts
them in this pre-psychotic oreven quasi-psychotic
camp. So the DSM actually doesa nice job telling
us what to look for and howwe can tell that
someone is on the cusp ofreality. But whether
(02:37):
or not it should be a separatecategory that
stands on its own is controversial.But the description
regarding towing the line of psychosis is
helpful. So in order to meet criteriafor schizotypal
personality disorder, fiveof the nine criteria
have to be present. The firstis ideas of reference.
(02:59):
What are ideas of reference?Well, the DSM notes
that ideas of reference are incorrectinterpretations
of causal incidences and externalevents as having
a particular and unusual meaningspecifically for
the person. Yeah, so in otherwords, regular
everyday events take on aspecific meaning or
(03:21):
become very personal. Exactly.Now the APA
dictionary describes ideasof reference as
the sense that events or the actions of
others like talking or whisperingor smiling really
particularly to oneself. Like that right
there, what you smiled or howyou smiled or what you
(03:41):
said like that was for mespecifically. So
let's look at some examples ofthis though. So maybe
Taylor Swift wrote that linein a song just to
tell me that she winked atme when I saw her in
concert or more likely everyonein that car that
just passed is talking aboutme because I saw the
(04:03):
driver look at me or that personover there in the
crowd sat down because I toldthem to in my head.
Yes, but there's also a differencebetween an
idea and a delusion. So anidea of reference
might be like, like, I can'thelp but think it
and believe it maybe for alittle bit. But when
(04:25):
I'm shown evidence, I cansee that it's not
likely versus a delusion of referenceis like, well,
that happened like the end, regardless of
any evidence to the contrary,it just happened.
Yeah, yep. An idea of referencecan become a
delusion of reference if it'sheld to so firmly
(04:47):
despite evidence that disconfirmsit. So delusions
are evidence of psychotic thoughtprocesses, which
they're more severe than actual
schizotypal personality. Yes,so schizotypal ideas of
reference are indicators ofcognitive slippage.
So in other words, we're notin psychosis yet,
but we flirt with that lineand some level
(05:10):
of insight and the abilityto take in new data
really is the difference herebetween psychosis
and that borderline psychoticplace. But it can
be very tricky to distinguish. And also,
can you imagine how distressingthat could be?
Oh, definitely. Yeah. AndI mean, we'll get to
this in a minute, but no wonderschizotypals are
(05:32):
so afraid, right? Okay. Sothe second criterion
is odd beliefs or magical thinkingthat influences
behavior and is inconsistentwith subcultural
norms. This is key inconsistentwith subcultural
norms. They might be superstitiousor preoccupied
with paranormal or otherworldlyphenomena that are
(05:53):
outside the norms of theirsubculture. It's
like fringe reality type stuffor more extreme
superstitiousness, which you can see how
this would tie into ideasof reference, right?
So an example might be that a person is
talking about me because I steppedon a crack in the
produce aisle. There's thatconnection about
(06:16):
those two. Yeah. But thisalso goes along with
sensory phenomena, like feeling as though
there's an additional sixth senseor an ability to take
in information, read information,be in the
future or the past, et cetera.They might believe that
they have special powers tosense events before
(06:37):
they happen, like clairvoyanceor to read other's
thoughts. Like telepathy. So even to send
thoughts, right? Now the APAdictionary defines
magical thinking as the beliefthat events or
the behaviors of others canbe influenced by one's
(06:58):
own thoughts, wishes, or rituals.So they may
believe that they have magicalcontrol over others,
which can be implemented directly or
indirectly through compliancewith magical rituals.
So directly would be likebelieving that their
spouse taking the dog out fora walk is the direct
result of thinking an hourearlier that it
(07:18):
should be done or indirectlywalking past a specific
object, like three timesto avoid a certain
harmful outcome. You can seehow this right here
dovetails into that superstitiousness,right?
So interestingly, magical thinkingis typical of
children up to four or fiveyears of age. So it
(07:40):
is a developmentally normalthing up to a point.
And then it's just no longer appropriate.
Right. So kids might think likeI was mad at mommy,
so she left or like, well,I had a fight with
my sibling and now they'resick. Yes. Those are
really great examples. So it's, it's a
regressed way of viewing the world.It's very childlike.
(08:02):
It's not dangerous and it'snot psychotic, but it
is an indicator of cognitiveslippage in the adult
brain because a healthy functioning adult
brain would typically not makethat connection.
Correct. Okay. And then let'stalk about the
subcultural norms aspect ofthis criterion for
a minute. We actually hada question about
(08:24):
this in an early episode ofthe series. So like,
how do we know if it's justa bizarre fad belief
of the culture or part of areligious tradition?
Like what do we do with that? Is it
evidence of schizotypal or pre-psychoticphenomena?
Yes. Yes. Great, great questions.And I think
this is only getting harderto differentiate
(08:46):
now that we're so interconnected socially
online where fringe thoughtscan become mainstream
rather quickly. But if we look back in
history, there have been majorhistorical events where
a folie a deux or a shareddelusion does take
over a religious group ora region, et cetera.
(09:08):
Two big examples that Ialways use are the
Salem Witch Trials and theJonestown cult.
So the difference here is thatwhile, of course,
morally, ethically, these historicalevents and
religious cults were not okay,they were,
"culturally appropriate" in thatregion or were a
(09:30):
significant part of that cult'sbelief system.
Like if everyone in that peoplegroup is thinking it,
it certainly could crossover into dangerous
shared delusion territory,but that's not what
this criterion is talking aboutwith schizotypal.
Right. Odd and magical beliefshere are sub-cultural.
(09:50):
So they're not popular. Theydon't catch on with a
group. Schizotypal individualsare often in their
own little worlds and the largergroup context may
or may not impact them. But overall,this criterion
is referencing psychologicalcontent that is
unique to the individual, evenwhen considering
cultural and religious factors.Yeah. And I
(10:13):
will say too that this is alsowhere a professional
opinion or professional help is really
important. If you think you haveschizotypal or a family
member does, or you're notsure if this is like
religious stuff or culturalstuff or what exactly
this is, like we as psychologistsare trained
diagnosticians. Like we actuallyhave a lot of
(10:34):
training in differential diagnosisand how to
interpret behavior in its context,including the
culture itself, religious stuff,faith beliefs, so
that we don't over pathologize.That doesn't mean
we always get it right becausepeople are tricky
and it's challenging, but wedo have the training
(10:54):
to be able to kind of pullthose pieces together
and figure out what's what.But anyway, let's keep
going with this criteriafor schizotypal. So
we're on the third criteria,which is unusual
perceptual experiences, including bodily
illusions. So this symptom showcaseslike a misfiring of
(11:15):
sensory experiences, like including where
the body is in space. So let'sbreak this down.
Perceptual alterations may be present. So
like sensing that anotherperson is present,
but no one's actually there.Okay. So some
examples of this, like withseeing or visual,
like maybe that's seeinga shadow out of the
corner of your eye. And thenwith hearing or
(11:38):
auditory, maybe that lookslike hearing a voice
murmuring your name. And thenwith touch or tactile,
maybe that's feeling windon your skin when
there's none. And then with thegustation and olfactory
senses, maybe you might havelike phantom smells
or tastes like smelling ortasting onions for a
(11:59):
second or two. And I do wantto point out that
this is not at a level of psychosis.They're not
hallucinations, but they'relike more illusions.
Yes. And then it can also includelike the body
system or proprioceptiveor kinesthetic. So
that might look like my rightleg is longer than my
(12:19):
left. And then now I'm limpingor walking weird,
even though it's not real or outof body experiences,
which can also be called
depersonalizations. Maybe sensationsof floating dissociation,
like this body isn't mine,is it? Like, is
this my hand? This pinky fingerisn't mine. Yeah.
Right. Right. Okay. And thenonto the fourth
(12:41):
criterion, which is odd thinkingand speech.
So their speech may include unusual or idiosyncraticphrasing and construction.
It's often loose, digressiveor vague, but
without actual derailment or incoherence.
It's not word salad. It's not psychosis.So let's break down some examples here,
(13:05):
because there's actually a lot of ways thatodd thinking and speech can look.
So the first one that we'llunpack is vague
speech. So things like, well,they kind of maybe
sometimes did that thingI don't like. Very
vague, right? Or maybe they'retalking all around the
subject using deep metaphoricallanguage, but not
(13:28):
actually answering the questionor they're speaking
in abstract terms. And it'sinteresting because I
actually found on Reddit, someoneasked what this
looks like. And one person'sresponse was so
interesting. They said it'slike having a cheese
grater in your brain and in your larynx.
Everything gets jumbled before itcomes out. And it makes
(13:50):
perfect sense to the personspeaking, but not
to others. Right. That isinteresting. Okay.
So another one is calledloose speech. So an
example would be I saw a butterflyand I really
like herb and garlic butteron my steak and
cows are cute. Oh, so presumablythey jumped there
(14:11):
because of having a butterfliedsteak, but those are
not related in context. Like it'sa loose association.
Exactly. Yes, it is. Yeah.And then we have
circumstantial speech. So thinkof it like a circle
that actually eventually comesback around to the
main point. So an example,I went to the grocery
(14:32):
store for carrots and carrotsare orange. And
I saw an orange butterfly atthe park last year
when I went after eatingcarrot soup and I'm
making carrot soup from thecarrots I got at
the grocery store. Okay. Soit did go back to
that main point eventually. Okay.Yes. Now tangential
never gets back to the main point. So for
example, I went to the grocerystore for carrots and
(14:55):
carrots are orange and I sawan orange butterfly
at the park last year and thepark had baseball,
which I watched last nightbefore I watched the
stars in the sky. Okay. Yeah.Didn't get back to
the main point. No, we didn'tcome back. Didn't
come back. And then metaphorical,I alluded to
this before, but that mightlook like orange
(15:15):
butterflies are like thesun in our darkest
hour coming up over the horizonand giving the
soul a reason to be reborn.Like, Oh, say what?
Like very, very flowery,beautiful, poetic
language, but it there's nothingthere. What are you
talking about? Yeah. Right.But then there can be
over elaborate speech, whichis way too much detail
(15:38):
about one specific piece.So for example, if
I'm asked what I like on mypizza and then I go on
for 10 minutes about pizzaand why I like it
and the type of crust I preferand how Papa John's
make it and how I learned tomake it too. And I
put mozzarella cheese for likesoft crust and the
spices are all involved inthere and where the
salami is imported from. AndOh, no, no, no, no,
(16:01):
Doc fish TMI. I just wantedto know what you
like on your pizza, not how tomake it or where the
ingredients are imported from.Right. Okay. And
then we have stereotyped speech,which is speech
that is patterned or rhythmic. So like, I
run, I run, I run, I run fast,fast, fast, fast,
(16:21):
or overly concrete speech.I saw a hundred
and one purple, small, fuzzy,smelly lavender
petals on a flower that hada stem. So this
answer is more rigid and logical,but it's a very
unusual way to describe aflower that you saw.
Okay. And then we have overlyabstract, which is
(16:42):
kind of the opposite of your example,
Doc Fish. So if I'm describingthe same flower from the
previous example, overlyabstract is going
to highlight the intangibles,not the concrete
evidence. Like it's somethingover there, like a
whatchamacallit. It's cool.It's a peace flower.
I didn't really tell us anyinformation though.
(17:03):
Right. Right. Right. And thenwe just have like
unusual speech. For example,I wasn't talkable
at work instead of I was lesstalkative. Now this
might be regressive too.Like when children
generalize speech, they mightsay, I run or there
were mouses. Right. Yes. Soodd word choices. And
(17:25):
what you're saying is that thisis similar to how
a child might speak, whichshows that it's a
regressed way of making thoseconnections in the
brain. And stay tuned forour next episode
because we talk about regression.Just putting that out
there. Fascinating. All right.Onto the fifth
criterion. So number five,suspiciousness or
(17:48):
paranoid ideation. Hmm. Okay. So this is believingthat others are out to get you,
persecute you, harass you, ortreat you unfairly.
So some examples, my peers atwork are conspiring
against me or the people atthe park are going
to take my ball or the personbehind me driving is
(18:09):
going to follow me home or thetraffic cameras are
always watching me. Yes. Butit is not delusional.
It's brief, transient and able to be
challenged. This is the key piece.Yes. They can take in
new data with that suspiciousnessand a little bit
(18:30):
of that paranoia too. Right.So now that takes us
to the sixth criterion, which is
inappropriate or constricted affect.So there is trouble
expressing their own emotions and
understanding others emotions andsocial cues, which can
negatively impact relationships.So they can
come off as inappropriate,stiff or constricted.
(18:53):
So constricted is like not really showing
emotions. It's like restricted,like it's there, but maybe
muted. So maybe a narrowed,diluted version
of their emotions. Like they'restill eeking out
a little bit, but that volumeis turned way,
way down. And then inappropriateaffect could be
(19:13):
laughing when telling a sadstory or being angry
when providing help. It canalso involve showing
no emotions during a reallyemotional situation,
like not displaying fear whenyou're being robbed.
Yeah, that's a good example.All right. And then
the seventh criterion is behavioror appearance
(19:33):
that is odd, eccentric or peculiar.Yes. So for
example, maybe their outfitsdon't really quite
go together or maybe they'restained or their
clothes are too small or justway out of fashion.
Their behavior and appearanceis unusual because
they're not paying attentionto the things that
other people care about.They really don't
(19:53):
notice that give and take of normalsocial situations.
They might seem unkempt,wear clothes that
don't fit, have a non-artisticmismatched fashion.
They might have difficultywith banter, sarcasm
or joking, which leads us tonumber eight. And that
is a lack of close friendsor confidants other
(20:16):
than first degree relatives.Even though this is the
exact same criterion thatschizoid has, it is
different. Those with schizotypalpersonality
disorder have difficulty with socializing
because they are uncomfortablewith people
not detached or uninterested.Right. Yeah,
(20:36):
it's anxiety based. So there'sa slight fear
of people or a mistrust, but it's not as
pervasive as with paranoid personalitydisorder. But there
is a skittish fear, but it's not a
retaliatory fear. And they do seemto want relationship,
often being unhappy with loneliness,but they
(20:56):
tend to avoid others, whichbrings us to the last
criterion. So number nine,excessive social
anxiety that does not diminishwith familiarity
and tends to be associatedwith paranoid fears
rather than negative judgmentsabout the self.
Yes. Okay, let's break thisdown, though. So
social anxiety that is persistentand stems from fear of
(21:20):
others. So generally, social anxiety as a
standalone diagnosis subsideswith family or
close friends. This is becausesocial anxiety
is based on performance fearsand criticism. So
typically, the more time youspend with someone,
it leads to less anxiety andit's a less anxiety
(21:40):
provoking situation. But forthe schizotypal,
they're not necessarily sociallyanxious based
on performance, though they can be. The
social anxiety actually comesfrom or at least is
exacerbated by that mistrust or fear of
others. They're suspicious ofothers' motivations,
which makes them skittish, not dangerous,but kind of like scared cats.
(22:05):
And then DSM has another good example,
actually. So for example, whenattending a dinner party,
the individual with schizotypalpersonality
disorder will not become morerelaxed as time
goes on, but rather may becomeincreasingly tense
and suspicious. Yeah, that'sa great example. Yeah.
(22:26):
And the DSM actually is anothergreat way of
describing it. It says, "Theyare anxious in
social situations, particularlythose involving
unfamiliar people. They willinteract with other
individuals when they haveto, but prefer to
keep to themselves becausethey feel that they
are different and just don'tfit in." Right. And
(22:46):
they feel different becausethey are different.
Like their dress, their mannerisms, their
speech, but this can make themmore self-conscious.
Right. And this is what alsoseparates schizoid
from schizotypal. Schizoids aren'tas self-conscious,
but schizotypals are. Right,schizoids don't
care. Yeah. So schizoids avoidpeople because of
(23:10):
detachment and disinterest.Avoidants avoid
people due to fears of criticismand negative
judgment. Mm-hmm. But schizotypals
experience social anxiety thatis out of proportion,
plus it doesn't get better withmore exposure and
familiarity. So it's often wrappedup in paranoid
fears involving others beingout to get them or
(23:33):
maybe being hostile, especiallybecause they know
that they are different. Yes,that's exactly it.
Yeah, well said. But importantly,we need to note
that schizotypal personalitydisorder, according
to the DSM, does not occur exclusivelyduring the
course of schizophrenia, abipolar or depressive
(23:53):
disorder with psychotic features,another psychotic
disorder or autism spectrumdisorder. So let's
boil this down. It means nopsychosis, no autism.
Okay. All right. And then as for the
schizotypal's relationship to schizophrenia,the DSM tells us
that schizotypal can precedeschizophrenia, but
(24:16):
it certainly isn't the onlydiagnosis that does,
and it's not a prerequisite.But flirting with
that psychosis line can meanthat you end up in
psychosis land. Not always,but sometimes.
Yes. And because schizotypalhistorically was the
personality that was headedtowards schizophrenia,
(24:38):
but somehow got stuck and justdidn't continue to
decompensate. Mm-hmm. Yeah,yeah. But here's
a question for you, Doc Fish.So if someone is
showing more of a schizotypal personality
organization, can they slipinto schizophrenia
at any point in their life, ordo you think they're
more vulnerable during maybea certain time frame?
(25:01):
Okay. So technically, yes,they can slip into
schizophrenia at any point.It will likely be due
to environmental stressors or traumas.
They're more likely to getstuck on their way to
schizophrenia and not fully decompensate,
especially with, like, right supports.But they can backslide;
time, stress, can make themslowly fall apart,
(25:25):
which is different than schizophrenia,whose onset
is in early adulthood. Aha.Additionally, I think
schizotypals are at more riskfor shorter periods
of psychosis, like bouncing back, then
falling apart, and kind of cyclingthrough that. But
eventually, they may end upin psychosis for the
long term. Mm-hmm. I can seethat, especially with
(25:48):
age and maybe difficulty springingback, because
that cycling back and forthtakes a toll on the
psyche. But it also makessense why, according
to multiple theorists, schizotypalis one of the
three unstable structures.It can follow a
similar pattern to borderlinepersonality, actually,
(26:08):
in its falling apart-ness,and then coming
back together. So for someunstable types,
there's only so many timesthat you can bounce
back before you can't anymore.Right? All right,
but here's another question for you. Are
schizotypals at an increasedrisk for schizophrenia
development? Yes. So this plays into the
(26:32):
construct of schizotypy. So thegroundwork for schizotypy
is there, but the expressionof it can differ.
So maybe we could think aboutit like schizotypal
might be maybe a house madeof gingerbread, but
then schizophrenia would be ahouse made of meringue.
Gingerbread is definitelymore durable, but
(26:53):
it's still flimsy overall inthe stress of life,
while meringue is just not stable.Right. Yes. And
if you've ever watched the GreatBritish Bake Off,
you will know what we mean.Okay, but another
question for you, Doc Fish.So after the brain
is developed, is there stillan increased risk
(27:15):
for developing schizophrenia?And by that, I mean,
like that 24, 25 years ofage mark. I mean,
does the brain ever reallystop developing?
Fair. But yes, I think you'rereferring to the
fact that schizophrenia usuallyshows up in like
the late teenage years, earlyadulthood. Yeah.
(27:36):
But schizotypal, if they dofall apart with time,
it can kind of be like a lateronset schizophrenia.
That is so interesting. Yes.Yes. All right. But
then I have another thoughtwith all this,
because this criteria seems tooverlap with some of the
other personality disordersin the DSM. So
(27:57):
specifically, and again, accordingto the DSM,
there is considerable co-occurrenceor comorbidity
with schizoid, paranoid, avoidant,and borderline
personality disorders. Sowhat's up with that?
Well, I wonder if maybe thisis a problem where
criteria overlap too muchin the DSM. So we
(28:17):
can see the overlap with schizoid.Of course,
some would even say that schizotypalis a more
severe form of schizoid. Thenthere certainly
are elements of paranoiato the schizotypal.
Yeah. Avoidant has a lot ofoverlap with schizoid,
and borderline describesa diagnosis that's
in the gray between psychoticand neurotic,
(28:37):
and there's overlap. Yeah,there's no wonder,
right? Yeah. So this makesso much sense. And
I'm also thinking about theoverlap with the
Cluster A personalities,which are schizoid,
schizotypal, and paranoid. SoI think you're onto
something, Doc Fish. I'll puta little nugget of
an upcoming episode here too. So Millon's
(29:00):
schizotypal subtypes involve schizoidand avoidant features,
two of the overlapping ones, and then his
defective structures, whichare the ones that
can fall apart into psychosis,are paranoid,
borderline, and schizotypal.Yes. And we will
get to these things in theupcoming episodes
(29:22):
of this series. It's reallyinteresting stuff,
especially Millon's structurally defectivepersonalities like schizotypal. Super,
super interesting. But let'sdo a quick recap for
now because there's a lot hereand there's a lot
that we unpacked. So we learnedthat being on
the cusp of psychosis and schizotypalisn't just a
(29:43):
one-time thing. It's pervasive. It's
lifelong. Sometimes, but not always,schizotypal is a
precursor to schizophreniawhere the individual
goes into full psychosis. Butmany schizotypals,
possibly even most, just hang out inthat quasi-psychotic place.
(30:03):
Right. And we can tell thatthey are in that
near psychotic realm by theirideas of reference and
other signs of cognitive slippage.Their oddness
is present in beliefs, speech,sensory experiences,
appearance, behaviors, etcetera. They often
experience depersonalizationor other dissociative
(30:25):
phenomena. Emotions are generallynot quite right
for the situation. And theytrend towards social
anxiety and paranoia, resulting in very
limited relationships. Yes. Andit's not psychotic,
close, but not quite. Andthe oddities and
problems with speech andrelationships are
(30:47):
not due to autism. But thisis all complex
stuff, which is why we love it,firstly. But it's also
why we're doing a whole series on what it
means to live in that borderlinepsychotic space,
specifically as it relatesto the schizotypal
personality. But on that note,that's a wrap for
(31:07):
today. So thank you forjoining us on this
episode of The Personality Couch.Make sure to check out
our blogs that coincide withthese episodes
at www.personalitycouch.com.And as always,
don't forget to give us a thumbsup or rate and
review us on your favoritepodcast app. And on
YouTube, hit that bell so youdon't miss a single
(31:28):
episode in our schizotypal series.Be well, be kind,
and we'll see you next timeon The Personality
Couch. This podcast is for informationalpurposes
and does not constitute a professional
relationship. If you're in needof professional help,
please seek out appropriateresources in your
area. Information about clinicaltrends or diagnoses
(31:50):
are discussed in broad anduniversal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
Welcome to the Personality Couch podcast,
where we discuss all thingspersonality and
clinical practice. I'm yourhost, Doc Bok,
and I'm here with my co-host,Doc Fish. We
are both licensed clinicalpsychologists in
private practice, and todaywe are continuing
our schizotypal personalityseries. In this
(00:22):
episode, we unpack the ninesigns and symptoms
of schizotypal personality. We talk at
length about what it means tobe in the gray area
of almost psychotic, butnot quite, and how
beliefs, speech, behavior,and interactions
with others can give us clues about what
lies underneath. This is afascinating one, so
(00:44):
we better jump in.
Okay, so schizotypal madeits appearance in
the DSM-III in 1980, as itwas split off from
schizoid personality. Researchers and
clinicians found that there wasa pre-psychotic character
that was similar to schizophrenia,but not
fully psychotic, but alsounique from schizoid
as well. So schizotypal cameon the scene to
(01:07):
describe a quasi-psychotic, schizoid,schizophrenia-like
character.
Yes, that's correct.
Mm-hmm. So let's open theDSM and actually
talk about what this personalitylooks like
when it's clinically significantor even diagnostic.
Absolutely. Okay, so first off, for a
(01:28):
personality disorder, it has tobe lifelong and pervasive.
It is not a bad day or badseason. It's stable
and enduring, and it's notsubstance-induced.
That's a different disorder.
Right, and if you followedalong in our schizoid
series, you're going to noticea lot of overlap
here. Schizoid and schizotypal have very similarorigins, and they're both part of
(01:53):
the cluster A personalitydisorders in the DSM
or what's called odd or eccentricpersonalities.
So both have challenges interpersonally,and
there's an overall low needfor relationships
and social interactions are enduredwith discomfort.
Exactly, yeah. So then thebiggest difference
with schizotypal is the odditiesand eccentric
(02:16):
thoughts, sensory experiences,and behavior. This
is what tells us there is moregoing on and puts
them in this pre-psychotic oreven quasi-psychotic
camp. So the DSM actually doesa nice job telling
us what to look for and howwe can tell that
someone is on the cusp ofreality. But whether
(02:37):
or not it should be a separatecategory that
stands on its own is controversial.But the description
regarding towing the line of psychosis is
helpful. So in order to meet criteriafor schizotypal
personality disorder, fiveof the nine criteria
have to be present. The firstis ideas of reference.
(02:59):
What are ideas of reference?Well, the DSM notes
that ideas of reference are incorrectinterpretations
of causal incidences and externalevents as having
a particular and unusual meaningspecifically for
the person. Yeah, so in otherwords, regular
everyday events take on aspecific meaning or
(03:21):
become very personal. Exactly.Now the APA
dictionary describes ideasof reference as
the sense that events or the actions of
others like talking or whisperingor smiling really
particularly to oneself. Like that right
there, what you smiled or howyou smiled or what you
(03:41):
said like that was for mespecifically. So
let's look at some examples ofthis though. So maybe
Taylor Swift wrote that linein a song just to
tell me that she winked atme when I saw her in
concert or more likely everyonein that car that
just passed is talking aboutme because I saw the
(04:03):
driver look at me or that personover there in the
crowd sat down because I toldthem to in my head.
Yes, but there's also a differencebetween an
idea and a delusion. So anidea of reference
might be like, like, I can'thelp but think it
and believe it maybe for alittle bit. But when
(04:25):
I'm shown evidence, I cansee that it's not
likely versus a delusion of referenceis like, well,
that happened like the end, regardless of
any evidence to the contrary,it just happened.
Yeah, yep. An idea of referencecan become a
delusion of reference if it'sheld to so firmly
(04:47):
despite evidence that disconfirmsit. So delusions
are evidence of psychotic thoughtprocesses, which
they're more severe than actual
schizotypal personality. Yes,so schizotypal ideas of
reference are indicators ofcognitive slippage.
So in other words, we're notin psychosis yet,
but we flirt with that lineand some level
(05:10):
of insight and the abilityto take in new data
really is the difference herebetween psychosis
and that borderline psychoticplace. But it can
be very tricky to distinguish. And also,
can you imagine how distressingthat could be?
Oh, definitely. Yeah. AndI mean, we'll get to
this in a minute, but no wonderschizotypals are
(05:32):
so afraid, right? Okay. Sothe second criterion
is odd beliefs or magical thinkingthat influences
behavior and is inconsistentwith subcultural
norms. This is key inconsistentwith subcultural
norms. They might be superstitiousor preoccupied
with paranormal or otherworldlyphenomena that are
(05:53):
outside the norms of theirsubculture. It's
like fringe reality type stuffor more extreme
superstitiousness, which you can see how
this would tie into ideasof reference, right?
So an example might be that a person is
talking about me because I steppedon a crack in the
produce aisle. There's thatconnection about
(06:16):
those two. Yeah. But thisalso goes along with
sensory phenomena, like feeling as though
there's an additional sixth senseor an ability to take
in information, read information,be in the
future or the past, et cetera.They might believe that
they have special powers tosense events before
(06:37):
they happen, like clairvoyanceor to read other's
thoughts. Like telepathy. So even to send
thoughts, right? Now the APAdictionary defines
magical thinking as the beliefthat events or
the behaviors of others canbe influenced by one's
(06:58):
own thoughts, wishes, or rituals.So they may
believe that they have magicalcontrol over others,
which can be implemented directly or
indirectly through compliancewith magical rituals.
So directly would be likebelieving that their
spouse taking the dog out fora walk is the direct
result of thinking an hourearlier that it
(07:18):
should be done or indirectlywalking past a specific
object, like three timesto avoid a certain
harmful outcome. You can seehow this right here
dovetails into that superstitiousness,right?
So interestingly, magical thinkingis typical of
children up to four or fiveyears of age. So it
(07:40):
is a developmentally normalthing up to a point.
And then it's just no longer appropriate.
Right. So kids might think likeI was mad at mommy,
so she left or like, well,I had a fight with
my sibling and now they'resick. Yes. Those are
really great examples. So it's, it's a
regressed way of viewing the world.It's very childlike.
(08:02):
It's not dangerous and it'snot psychotic, but it
is an indicator of cognitiveslippage in the adult
brain because a healthy functioning adult
brain would typically not makethat connection.
Correct. Okay. And then let'stalk about the
subcultural norms aspect ofthis criterion for
a minute. We actually hada question about
(08:24):
this in an early episode ofthe series. So like,
how do we know if it's justa bizarre fad belief
of the culture or part of areligious tradition?
Like what do we do with that? Is it
evidence of schizotypal or pre-psychoticphenomena?
Yes. Yes. Great, great questions.And I think
this is only getting harderto differentiate
(08:46):
now that we're so interconnected socially
online where fringe thoughtscan become mainstream
rather quickly. But if we look back in
history, there have been majorhistorical events where
a folie a deux or a shareddelusion does take
over a religious group ora region, et cetera.
(09:08):
Two big examples that Ialways use are the
Salem Witch Trials and theJonestown cult.
So the difference here is thatwhile, of course,
morally, ethically, these historicalevents and
religious cults were not okay,they were,
"culturally appropriate" in thatregion or were a
(09:30):
significant part of that cult'sbelief system.
Like if everyone in that peoplegroup is thinking it,
it certainly could crossover into dangerous
shared delusion territory,but that's not what
this criterion is talking aboutwith schizotypal.
Right. Odd and magical beliefshere are sub-cultural.
(09:50):
So they're not popular. Theydon't catch on with a
group. Schizotypal individualsare often in their
own little worlds and the largergroup context may
or may not impact them. But overall,this criterion
is referencing psychologicalcontent that is
unique to the individual, evenwhen considering
cultural and religious factors.Yeah. And I
(10:13):
will say too that this is alsowhere a professional
opinion or professional help is really
important. If you think you haveschizotypal or a family
member does, or you're notsure if this is like
religious stuff or culturalstuff or what exactly
this is, like we as psychologistsare trained
diagnosticians. Like we actuallyhave a lot of
(10:34):
training in differential diagnosisand how to
interpret behavior in its context,including the
culture itself, religious stuff,faith beliefs, so
that we don't over pathologize.That doesn't mean
we always get it right becausepeople are tricky
and it's challenging, but wedo have the training
(10:54):
to be able to kind of pullthose pieces together
and figure out what's what.But anyway, let's keep
going with this criteriafor schizotypal. So
we're on the third criteria,which is unusual
perceptual experiences, including bodily
illusions. So this symptom showcaseslike a misfiring of
(11:15):
sensory experiences, like including where
the body is in space. So let'sbreak this down.
Perceptual alterations may be present. So
like sensing that anotherperson is present,
but no one's actually there.Okay. So some
examples of this, like withseeing or visual,
like maybe that's seeinga shadow out of the
corner of your eye. And thenwith hearing or
(11:38):
auditory, maybe that lookslike hearing a voice
murmuring your name. And thenwith touch or tactile,
maybe that's feeling windon your skin when
there's none. And then with thegustation and olfactory
senses, maybe you might havelike phantom smells
or tastes like smelling ortasting onions for a
(11:59):
second or two. And I do wantto point out that
this is not at a level of psychosis.They're not
hallucinations, but they'relike more illusions.
Yes. And then it can also includelike the body
system or proprioceptiveor kinesthetic. So
that might look like my rightleg is longer than my
(12:19):
left. And then now I'm limpingor walking weird,
even though it's not real or outof body experiences,
which can also be called
depersonalizations. Maybe sensationsof floating dissociation,
like this body isn't mine,is it? Like, is
this my hand? This pinky fingerisn't mine. Yeah.
Right. Right. Okay. And thenonto the fourth
(12:41):
criterion, which is odd thinkingand speech.
So their speech may include unusual or idiosyncraticphrasing and construction.
It's often loose, digressiveor vague, but
without actual derailment or incoherence.
It's not word salad. It's not psychosis.So let's break down some examples here,
(13:05):
because there's actually a lot of ways thatodd thinking and speech can look.
So the first one that we'llunpack is vague
speech. So things like, well,they kind of maybe
sometimes did that thingI don't like. Very
vague, right? Or maybe they'retalking all around the
subject using deep metaphoricallanguage, but not
(13:28):
actually answering the questionor they're speaking
in abstract terms. And it'sinteresting because I
actually found on Reddit, someoneasked what this
looks like. And one person'sresponse was so
interesting. They said it'slike having a cheese
grater in your brain and in your larynx.
Everything gets jumbled before itcomes out. And it makes
(13:50):
perfect sense to the personspeaking, but not
to others. Right. That isinteresting. Okay.
So another one is calledloose speech. So an
example would be I saw a butterflyand I really
like herb and garlic butteron my steak and
cows are cute. Oh, so presumablythey jumped there
(14:11):
because of having a butterfliedsteak, but those are
not related in context. Like it'sa loose association.
Exactly. Yes, it is. Yeah.And then we have
circumstantial speech. So thinkof it like a circle
that actually eventually comesback around to the
main point. So an example,I went to the grocery
(14:32):
store for carrots and carrotsare orange. And
I saw an orange butterfly atthe park last year
when I went after eatingcarrot soup and I'm
making carrot soup from thecarrots I got at
the grocery store. Okay. Soit did go back to
that main point eventually. Okay.Yes. Now tangential
never gets back to the main point. So for
example, I went to the grocerystore for carrots and
(14:55):
carrots are orange and I sawan orange butterfly
at the park last year and thepark had baseball,
which I watched last nightbefore I watched the
stars in the sky. Okay. Yeah.Didn't get back to
the main point. No, we didn'tcome back. Didn't
come back. And then metaphorical,I alluded to
this before, but that mightlook like orange
(15:15):
butterflies are like thesun in our darkest
hour coming up over the horizonand giving the
soul a reason to be reborn.Like, Oh, say what?
Like very, very flowery,beautiful, poetic
language, but it there's nothingthere. What are you
talking about? Yeah. Right.But then there can be
over elaborate speech, whichis way too much detail
(15:38):
about one specific piece.So for example, if
I'm asked what I like on mypizza and then I go on
for 10 minutes about pizzaand why I like it
and the type of crust I preferand how Papa John's
make it and how I learned tomake it too. And I
put mozzarella cheese for likesoft crust and the
spices are all involved inthere and where the
salami is imported from. AndOh, no, no, no, no,
(16:01):
Doc fish TMI. I just wantedto know what you
like on your pizza, not how tomake it or where the
ingredients are imported from.Right. Okay. And
then we have stereotyped speech,which is speech
that is patterned or rhythmic. So like, I
run, I run, I run, I run fast,fast, fast, fast,
(16:21):
or overly concrete speech.I saw a hundred
and one purple, small, fuzzy,smelly lavender
petals on a flower that hada stem. So this
answer is more rigid and logical,but it's a very
unusual way to describe aflower that you saw.
Okay. And then we have overlyabstract, which is
(16:42):
kind of the opposite of your example,
Doc Fish. So if I'm describingthe same flower from the
previous example, overlyabstract is going
to highlight the intangibles,not the concrete
evidence. Like it's somethingover there, like a
whatchamacallit. It's cool.It's a peace flower.
I didn't really tell us anyinformation though.
(17:03):
Right. Right. Right. And thenwe just have like
unusual speech. For example,I wasn't talkable
at work instead of I was lesstalkative. Now this
might be regressive too.Like when children
generalize speech, they mightsay, I run or there
were mouses. Right. Yes. Soodd word choices. And
(17:25):
what you're saying is that thisis similar to how
a child might speak, whichshows that it's a
regressed way of making thoseconnections in the
brain. And stay tuned forour next episode
because we talk about regression.Just putting that out
there. Fascinating. All right.Onto the fifth
criterion. So number five,suspiciousness or
(17:48):
paranoid ideation. Hmm. Okay. So this is believingthat others are out to get you,
persecute you, harass you, ortreat you unfairly.
So some examples, my peers atwork are conspiring
against me or the people atthe park are going
to take my ball or the personbehind me driving is
(18:09):
going to follow me home or thetraffic cameras are
always watching me. Yes. Butit is not delusional.
It's brief, transient and able to be
challenged. This is the key piece.Yes. They can take in
new data with that suspiciousnessand a little bit
(18:30):
of that paranoia too. Right.So now that takes us
to the sixth criterion, which is
inappropriate or constricted affect.So there is trouble
expressing their own emotions and
understanding others emotions andsocial cues, which can
negatively impact relationships.So they can
come off as inappropriate,stiff or constricted.
(18:53):
So constricted is like not really showing
emotions. It's like restricted,like it's there, but maybe
muted. So maybe a narrowed,diluted version
of their emotions. Like they'restill eeking out
a little bit, but that volumeis turned way,
way down. And then inappropriateaffect could be
(19:13):
laughing when telling a sadstory or being angry
when providing help. It canalso involve showing
no emotions during a reallyemotional situation,
like not displaying fear whenyou're being robbed.
Yeah, that's a good example.All right. And then
the seventh criterion is behavioror appearance
(19:33):
that is odd, eccentric or peculiar.Yes. So for
example, maybe their outfitsdon't really quite
go together or maybe they'restained or their
clothes are too small or justway out of fashion.
Their behavior and appearanceis unusual because
they're not paying attentionto the things that
other people care about.They really don't
(19:53):
notice that give and take of normalsocial situations.
They might seem unkempt,wear clothes that
don't fit, have a non-artisticmismatched fashion.
They might have difficultywith banter, sarcasm
or joking, which leads us tonumber eight. And that
is a lack of close friendsor confidants other
(20:16):
than first degree relatives.Even though this is the
exact same criterion thatschizoid has, it is
different. Those with schizotypalpersonality
disorder have difficulty with socializing
because they are uncomfortablewith people
not detached or uninterested.Right. Yeah,
(20:36):
it's anxiety based. So there'sa slight fear
of people or a mistrust, but it's not as
pervasive as with paranoid personalitydisorder. But there
is a skittish fear, but it's not a
retaliatory fear. And they do seemto want relationship,
often being unhappy with loneliness,but they
(20:56):
tend to avoid others, whichbrings us to the last
criterion. So number nine,excessive social
anxiety that does not diminishwith familiarity
and tends to be associatedwith paranoid fears
rather than negative judgmentsabout the self.
Yes. Okay, let's break thisdown, though. So
social anxiety that is persistentand stems from fear of
(21:20):
others. So generally, social anxiety as a
standalone diagnosis subsideswith family or
close friends. This is becausesocial anxiety
is based on performance fearsand criticism. So
typically, the more time youspend with someone,
it leads to less anxiety andit's a less anxiety
(21:40):
provoking situation. But forthe schizotypal,
they're not necessarily sociallyanxious based
on performance, though they can be. The
social anxiety actually comesfrom or at least is
exacerbated by that mistrust or fear of
others. They're suspicious ofothers' motivations,
which makes them skittish, not dangerous,but kind of like scared cats.
(22:05):
And then DSM has another good example,
actually. So for example, whenattending a dinner party,
the individual with schizotypalpersonality
disorder will not become morerelaxed as time
goes on, but rather may becomeincreasingly tense
and suspicious. Yeah, that'sa great example. Yeah.
(22:26):
And the DSM actually is anothergreat way of
describing it. It says, "Theyare anxious in
social situations, particularlythose involving
unfamiliar people. They willinteract with other
individuals when they haveto, but prefer to
keep to themselves becausethey feel that they
are different and just don'tfit in." Right. And
(22:46):
they feel different becausethey are different.
Like their dress, their mannerisms, their
speech, but this can make themmore self-conscious.
Right. And this is what alsoseparates schizoid
from schizotypal. Schizoids aren'tas self-conscious,
but schizotypals are. Right,schizoids don't
care. Yeah. So schizoids avoidpeople because of
(23:10):
detachment and disinterest.Avoidants avoid
people due to fears of criticismand negative
judgment. Mm-hmm. But schizotypals
experience social anxiety thatis out of proportion,
plus it doesn't get better withmore exposure and
familiarity. So it's often wrappedup in paranoid
fears involving others beingout to get them or
(23:33):
maybe being hostile, especiallybecause they know
that they are different. Yes,that's exactly it.
Yeah, well said. But importantly,we need to note
that schizotypal personalitydisorder, according
to the DSM, does not occur exclusivelyduring the
course of schizophrenia, abipolar or depressive
(23:53):
disorder with psychotic features,another psychotic
disorder or autism spectrumdisorder. So let's
boil this down. It means nopsychosis, no autism.
Okay. All right. And then as for the
schizotypal's relationship to schizophrenia,the DSM tells us
that schizotypal can precedeschizophrenia, but
(24:16):
it certainly isn't the onlydiagnosis that does,
and it's not a prerequisite.But flirting with
that psychosis line can meanthat you end up in
psychosis land. Not always,but sometimes.
Yes. And because schizotypalhistorically was the
personality that was headedtowards schizophrenia,
(24:38):
but somehow got stuck and justdidn't continue to
decompensate. Mm-hmm. Yeah,yeah. But here's
a question for you, Doc Fish.So if someone is
showing more of a schizotypal personality
organization, can they slipinto schizophrenia
at any point in their life, ordo you think they're
more vulnerable during maybea certain time frame?
(25:01):
Okay. So technically, yes,they can slip into
schizophrenia at any point.It will likely be due
to environmental stressors or traumas.
They're more likely to getstuck on their way to
schizophrenia and not fully decompensate,
especially with, like, right supports.But they can backslide;
time, stress, can make themslowly fall apart,
(25:25):
which is different than schizophrenia,whose onset
is in early adulthood. Aha.Additionally, I think
schizotypals are at more riskfor shorter periods
of psychosis, like bouncing back, then
falling apart, and kind of cyclingthrough that. But
eventually, they may end upin psychosis for the
long term. Mm-hmm. I can seethat, especially with
(25:48):
age and maybe difficulty springingback, because
that cycling back and forthtakes a toll on the
psyche. But it also makessense why, according
to multiple theorists, schizotypalis one of the
three unstable structures.It can follow a
similar pattern to borderlinepersonality, actually,
(26:08):
in its falling apart-ness,and then coming
back together. So for someunstable types,
there's only so many timesthat you can bounce
back before you can't anymore.Right? All right,
but here's another question for you. Are
schizotypals at an increasedrisk for schizophrenia
development? Yes. So this plays into the
(26:32):
construct of schizotypy. So thegroundwork for schizotypy
is there, but the expressionof it can differ.
So maybe we could think aboutit like schizotypal
might be maybe a house madeof gingerbread, but
then schizophrenia would be ahouse made of meringue.
Gingerbread is definitelymore durable, but
(26:53):
it's still flimsy overall inthe stress of life,
while meringue is just not stable.Right. Yes. And
if you've ever watched the GreatBritish Bake Off,
you will know what we mean.Okay, but another
question for you, Doc Fish.So after the brain
is developed, is there stillan increased risk
(27:15):
for developing schizophrenia?And by that, I mean,
like that 24, 25 years ofage mark. I mean,
does the brain ever reallystop developing?
Fair. But yes, I think you'rereferring to the
fact that schizophrenia usuallyshows up in like
the late teenage years, earlyadulthood. Yeah.
(27:36):
But schizotypal, if they dofall apart with time,
it can kind of be like a lateronset schizophrenia.
That is so interesting. Yes.Yes. All right. But
then I have another thoughtwith all this,
because this criteria seems tooverlap with some of the
other personality disordersin the DSM. So
(27:57):
specifically, and again, accordingto the DSM,
there is considerable co-occurrenceor comorbidity
with schizoid, paranoid, avoidant,and borderline
personality disorders. Sowhat's up with that?
Well, I wonder if maybe thisis a problem where
criteria overlap too muchin the DSM. So we
(28:17):
can see the overlap with schizoid.Of course,
some would even say that schizotypalis a more
severe form of schizoid. Thenthere certainly
are elements of paranoiato the schizotypal.
Yeah. Avoidant has a lot ofoverlap with schizoid,
and borderline describesa diagnosis that's
in the gray between psychoticand neurotic,
(28:37):
and there's overlap. Yeah,there's no wonder,
right? Yeah. So this makesso much sense. And
I'm also thinking about theoverlap with the
Cluster A personalities,which are schizoid,
schizotypal, and paranoid. SoI think you're onto
something, Doc Fish. I'll puta little nugget of
an upcoming episode here too. So Millon's
(29:00):
schizotypal subtypes involve schizoidand avoidant features,
two of the overlapping ones, and then his
defective structures, whichare the ones that
can fall apart into psychosis,are paranoid,
borderline, and schizotypal.Yes. And we will
get to these things in theupcoming episodes
(29:22):
of this series. It's reallyinteresting stuff,
especially Millon's structurally defectivepersonalities like schizotypal. Super,
super interesting. But let'sdo a quick recap for
now because there's a lot hereand there's a lot
that we unpacked. So we learnedthat being on
the cusp of psychosis and schizotypalisn't just a
(29:43):
one-time thing. It's pervasive. It's
lifelong. Sometimes, but not always,schizotypal is a
precursor to schizophreniawhere the individual
goes into full psychosis. Butmany schizotypals,
possibly even most, just hang out inthat quasi-psychotic place.
(30:03):
Right. And we can tell thatthey are in that
near psychotic realm by theirideas of reference and
other signs of cognitive slippage.Their oddness
is present in beliefs, speech,sensory experiences,
appearance, behaviors, etcetera. They often
experience depersonalizationor other dissociative
(30:25):
phenomena. Emotions are generallynot quite right
for the situation. And theytrend towards social
anxiety and paranoia, resulting in very
limited relationships. Yes. Andit's not psychotic,
close, but not quite. Andthe oddities and
problems with speech andrelationships are
(30:47):
not due to autism. But thisis all complex
stuff, which is why we love it,firstly. But it's also
why we're doing a whole series on what it
means to live in that borderlinepsychotic space,
specifically as it relatesto the schizotypal
personality. But on that note,that's a wrap for
(31:07):
today. So thank you forjoining us on this
episode of The Personality Couch.Make sure to check out
our blogs that coincide withthese episodes
at www.personalitycouch.com.And as always,
don't forget to give us a thumbsup or rate and
review us on your favoritepodcast app. And on
YouTube, hit that bell so youdon't miss a single
(31:28):
episode in our schizotypal series.Be well, be kind,
and we'll see you next timeon The Personality
Couch. This podcast is for informationalpurposes
and does not constitute a professional
relationship. If you're in needof professional help,
please seek out appropriateresources in your
area. Information about clinicaltrends or diagnoses
(31:50):
are discussed in broad anduniversal terms
and do not refer to any specificperson or case.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by Audiochuck Media Company.
The Brothers Ortiz
The Brothers Ortiz is the story of two brothers–both successful, but in very different ways. Gabe Ortiz becomes a third-highest ranking officer in all of Texas while his younger brother Larry climbs the ranks in Puro Tango Blast, a notorious Texas Prison gang. Gabe doesn’t know all the details of his brother’s nefarious dealings, and he’s made a point not to ask, to protect their relationship. But when Larry is murdered during a home invasion in a rented beach house, Gabe has no choice but to look into what happened that night. To solve Larry’s murder, Gabe, and the whole Ortiz family, must ask each other tough questions.