Facing the Darkness: Depression, Suicidal Thoughts & Survival in Recovery

Episode Transcript
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(00:01):
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
alcohol, please reach out for help.
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com.

(00:26):
You are no longer alone. Thanks so much for coming down,
Mary. I really appreciate it.

(00:46):
We met online. I was watching some of your
videos. And correct me, I hope I don't
screw this up, but your account is mental health with Mary.
I love it. Yeah, I love it.
Yeah. You do these, like, hilarious
little videos where you're kind of whispering into the camera
and, like, you know, telling your story.
And I just really like that. I I I found it awesome.
And you reached out to me. And so I'm happy you came down.
Thank you. Thank you.

(01:08):
Why don't you tell us a little bit about, you know, what
brought you into recovery and you're very passionate now about
mental health and recovery and how you kind of came to this
point of being an advocate and speaking out about it and making
these hilarious videos. Honestly I feel like mental
health and addiction and recovery are spoken about but

(01:28):
not truly spoken about. I feel like we live in this
world on social media where everyone is very like, drink
your green juice or go for a 10 minute walk or do this or do
that. Buy my product.
Exactly. And then like then you see all
these mental health advocates where they're advocating mental
health, but they're also like a gin event and you kind of
forget, like my followers are either addicts or people in

(01:52):
recovery. They don't want to fucking see
you. What is that, by the way?
What's the gin event? Yeah.
There was this like gin company that had this like event kind of
thing and there were a lot of like Wellness influences and
mental health advocates that were at the event.
And I was like, I'm so sorry. If you're following pages people
that are addicts or or in recovery, should you really be

(02:14):
promoting that? So I kind of figured I'm nine
years sober. If someones going to talk about
it, somebody that's actually probably lived it should
probably talk about it. And let me tell you, it's scary
at like at points because I'm exposing not only myself but my
family as well. And that can be quite
challenging. Have you had any backlash from

(02:34):
that? Like people kind of saying stay
in your lane, you know, because there's a lot of good positivity
and negativity. Oh my goodness, absolutely.
There has been people, includingmy own family, feeling very
embarrassed and ashamed, not because just my past, but
because of where where I am now.And I completely respect that
because again, we've lived in a culture.

(02:57):
You've been Natalie, me being Greek, where suffering in
silence is far more admirable and protecting people's
reputation is far more admirable.
But unfortunately that ends up either A killing us or B putting
us into in these chairs. Exactly.
Exactly. Exactly.

(03:19):
Yeah. What so, so you're nine years
sober. Amazing.
Congratulations. You were saying you got, you
know, before we were talking about a little bit about your
back story and you got sober at 23.
Yes, right. Or 23.
Yes, yes, yes, same like me. I came in at 23.
What was that like? Tell tell us a little bit about
what that was like and how you ended up in recovery.
Well, technically, to be honest with you, I hit rock bottom.

(03:42):
I had absolutely nothing and no one left.
And I feel like unfortunately, Ihad to hit rock bottom.
And I'll be honest with you, like my dad and my sister were
nothing but supportive, but theyalso had to be like, you know
what? If this is how you're going to
be, we're not supporting this. So I had to unfortunately hit
rock bottom in order to get help.
It took me more than one time tofigure it out.

(04:06):
I was young and stupid. I was also with a lot of people
that raving was really big back then.
It was really, really big. And unfortunately I couldn't
just rave for the weekend. I had to keep doing the drugs
from Monday to Sunday. It was what I needed to function
and I was with partner where I don't want to shit on him.

(04:27):
We're obviously not together nowwhere he still tell this day
partakes in it and good for him because he's able to
differentiate like the difference between partying on a
Friday and being able to go to work the next day.
Meet you. I couldn't and and that caused a
lot of issues as well in our relationship because he was very
much like, well, what do you mean you're not doing it?

(04:47):
I said I can't come out, but I can't.
And it caused a lot of issues because I think our initial
connection was based off of that.
But unfortunately I knew that I didn't have the willpower to be
like, no, I'm going to stop. I was like, I need more, I need
more. So it became that kind of really
tug of war of I don't have the willpower to be able to be like,

(05:10):
no, I'm stopping. And kudos to people that can't.
Like I'm not shitting on them, but like I I can't.
Yeah, yeah, once I start, you know, I don't know how to stop,
right? No, I don't know how to and I
don't know how to stay stopped too.
That's the other thing that's this is like the two-part thing
in addiction, right? You, you bring up a really
important point there. I talked to a lot of people that

(05:31):
have had past relationships thatwere built on, you know, this
connection of drug use, partying, alcohol use, where you
get sober and you're kind of like, huh, we don't have a lot
in common. We have nothing in common.
What the Hell's going on? I'm like, yeah, I'm like, OK,
like, you wanna pass me the mozzarella stick?
Like, what the fuck are we doing?
Like, he literally got to the point where I was like, this is

(05:55):
a disservice to the both of us. Like, I'm not the girl for you.
You're not the guy for me. And like it like, I wish him all
the best, like I truly do. And he's an amazing person.
Just not for me. And like now he's with someone
where they party and do all thatstuff and God bless them, they
can party and go to work the next day.
I. Can't Yeah, yeah.

(06:18):
And then yeah, it's like you getyou get sober and you have not a
lot in common. You actually don't even enjoy
each other's company, right. And the same, the same thing
happened for me with my friends,right where I first, when I
first got sober, I came back from Minnesota and it was
advised that I I kind of still take some more time in my
recovery community and stay awayfrom my friends.
And that was, it was hard for myfriends, but I was so bought in

(06:40):
at that point that I was like, I'm doing whatever you say, man,
because I don't want to go back there, right?
I don't want to do that again. And so I spent I think it was
like 4 months before my friends even even heard anything from
me. And I needed to do that, right?
And then so my point with all that was I start hanging out
with my friends again and you start to realize like who your

(07:00):
real friends are and who your fake friends are.
And when I say fake friends, I just like you said, it's just
you're just don't have your interests are different.
You're, you know, you're, you'redoing different things and then
you kind of just slowly fade away.
Right, exactly. They're like they're good
people, They're just not good for you.
And that's not shitting on them as a person.
It's just to everyone's built differently.

(07:21):
Some people have, I don't want to see a stronger willpower, but
let's be honest, like I can't befriends with people that rave
every weekend because I still have that monkey on my back
being like, well, like, and if Idab into it once, who we
kidding? Yeah, It's not a one time
situation. Yeah.

(07:41):
And we don't know what's gonna happen next.
No, no, no do. You still go to rave sober or
have you? Or do you still like the music
even? So OK, so funny enough, is I
still OK? So I only listen to the music
when I run because running is I don't like, I don't know if
you've noticed, but like I run at least 10 to 15 KA day.
It's just kind of what keeps me sane, and I love that music.

(08:04):
And to be honest, I only like itwhen I'm running.
Maybe because it's giving me thesame endorphins that the drugs
used to do at the same time. But I did go to a few raves
sober. Well, it was not my scene.

(08:27):
I suckle like a sore thumb, likea real sore thumb, if you know
what I mean. Like I was like, ohh, sweet
Lord, this is not yeah. Ravings really changed and it's
like, no, I've changed. No yeah no, no, I change.
I I just couldn't. I was like this is disgusting.
I was like, I don't know what time no yeah and like yeah just

(08:47):
wasn't my vibe. I.
Always say this but because I still do.
I really enjoy techno music and I still do from time to time
like going to to raves. The times don't really line up
with my schedule right now. It's hard for me to stay up till
6:00 AM nowadays, but I I used to go to after hours and, you
know, leave at 10 AM. Oh my God, Good old CZ.
Yeah, good old CZ. I would literally walk out

(09:09):
Sunday with my eyes peeled open.I was like, Oh my God, it's
11:00. Like, first of all, when the
bouncers at Zone know you, that's a problem too.
Yeah. When you're the last one to
leave Zone because the lights goon, that's a problem.
That's a problem. Yeah, that's a like when I went
to the Zone closing party, I cried.

(09:31):
That's a problem. My favorite after hours is
closing. What a tragedy.
Yeah, it turns out they just reopened up again, like
somewhere else. I was here.
Yeah, and that's all they reopened on Queen St. and a lot
less sketchy. I got to know all the bouncers
there. But yeah, so my in my relapse, I
spent a lot of time at that place and man, I I look back and
I'm like some of the conversations you have with

(09:52):
people on those on those patios are on those smoking areas.
Like, Oh my God, I think back now I'm like, oh, you were going
to change the world together. And then oh for.
Sure. 10 AM, came around and I was like, Get Me Out of here,
right? And why is that guy carrying a
briefcase walking down the street?
Like, what's going on, right? He's going to work, You know,
I'm going home at 10 AM. Something happens, though.

(10:13):
Something happens where now you go to a rave, you go to a party
and like, there's like this shift in the night, you know?
2:00 AM, probably around 2:00 AM, people just start to change,
right? And it's like zombies start
coming out and you're like, OK, I, I've had my fun here and it's
time to go home, right? But we never went home.
We just kept going. I was that zombie.

(10:33):
And like, and like, there were moments where like, I was like,
I think this person's eyes like going.
And I was like, whatever, doesn't matter.
Like I'm still jamming. And then I was like, like, I
look back at it now and like, I have a daughter.
She turns 1 tomorrow. Wow.
And I, like, think about him now.
I'm like, Oh my gosh. If she ever, like, finds out

(10:55):
about this, which obviously she will because I'm all over social
media, she's gonna be like, mom,what the hell was wrong with
you? Like, did you not think?
And I'll be like, no, honey, I really didn't think, which is
why I'm gonna try and, like, tell you, like, if you're gonna
party, please just be smart about it because you know what
can happen when you, I don't want to say, have the wrong

(11:16):
friends, but when you have an environment that isn't best
suited for you. And like, I'm not here to shit
talk people. I'm just here to be like,
sometimes the people that come into your life come in for a
reason. And hopefully you learn that
lesson before. Sorry to trigger you end up 6
feet under. Yeah.
Yeah, so I had a mom reach out to me last week totally

(11:39):
overwhelmed, not knowing how to help her 15 year old son.
She picked up What's Wrong with My Teen after I had mentioned it
here and messaged me a week later saying she finally felt
seen. That's why I bring stuff like
this up. If you're a parent in the thick
of it, confused, scared, or justtired, this book is a great
place to start. Check the link in the show notes
below. It's actually a good point.

(11:59):
I was going to ask you like, what do you, what does a what
does a parent say to their kid when well, mom, you use drugs,
right? Like, why wouldn't I use drugs,
right? But to your point, there's a lot
of, you know, things nowadays where you can take precautions,
right? Fentanyl testing kit is the
first thing that comes to mind. Even drug testing in general,
it's it's like really cheap. You want to know what's so
funny? Please Fucking at one point.
Thank God we got the kid. At one point the can I say the

(12:23):
MD made the word. Yeah, yeah.
OK. We love talking.
About drugs, Sorry, sorry. So the so the Molly that we were
doing it was fucking bad bath salts.
And I only found that out like 3months later because my partner
at the time, he, he got like a drug kit test and he was like,
Oh my God, we're doing bath salts.
I was like. Jesus.

(12:44):
Excuse us? Like all this shit that we've
put into our bodies and like, yes, I get it.
My body is a temple. Let me tell you, I did not treat
my body like a temple. I treat like a fucking trash
can. Yeah, yeah, A.
Big old one of those one of those trash cans on the
driveways when the house is getting renovated.
Just throw it in there. Worse.
Worse. Drywall and bricks and shit.
Like it's, it's so funny to think about.

(13:07):
Like now I check if like the meat was grass fed, but back
then I was taking pills from strangers like like it's so
funny to like see how like though now I'm like, wait, is
this made with like no pesticides?
No this, no that. But yet like though 10 years ago
I was like oh magic pill box. Let's go for it.

(13:28):
I mean this one was better than the last batch, OK?
Perfect. Cool for me, Yeah.
Oh. My God, no, it's so true.
It's funny to see the transitionwhen you become an adult, even
though to be honest with you, I don't think you become an adult
and I'm only 31. I don't think you'd be become an
adult until you're 30. Like, to be fully transparent, I
think 30 and under you're still a kid figuring out your life.
Yeah, like truly. Yeah, a lot changed for me too.

(13:52):
I mean, when you get sober though, like at 23, you do
mature a lot quicker, right? Because they say when you're
using drugs, your brain just stops maturing up until the
point you stop using drugs, likeat least the way we were using
them. So I remember being more mature
than a lot of people my age whenI came in at 23.
And, you know, you just start looking for different, like I

(14:13):
said, different things in your life, different preferences.
You're, you're, you know, you, you value going to the movies on
a Friday night instead of going to the bar, right?
What was it like for you coming in at 23 with your friends and
family? How did they react?
My friends and my family were extremely supportive to be

(14:33):
honest with you. They all knew I had a problem.
My good friends that I'm still friends with till now, even
their parents who God bless themall, they were all very
supportive of me getting help. They knew I was a troubled kid.
I had, I had a very, I don't want to say difficult child to
but it was quite challenging. It's funny, I've never really

(14:58):
shared this too much, but my mom, she, I've talked about her
leaving, but I've never actuallytalked to the extent of her
leaving. My mom left us for another man
and that was very challenging for me to stomach and I blamed
that for the reason I became whoI was.
But I have to remember that her doing what she did was a

(15:18):
reflection of her own ethics andmorals and values.
It had nothing to do with me andme using that as the reason to
use OR or me trying to attempt suicide and doing all of these
bad things to myself. It was actually my fault.
And this is where we fall a lot is we are very quick to be like,
well I'm a victim. Nobody fucking told you to

(15:40):
inject the God damn needle in between your toes.
You chose that. Yes, your mom left you but that
doesn't give you the right to now allow your life to
completely fall apart. It's OK.
Yes it's shitty what she did, but you allowing that to

(16:00):
basically control your whole life and the rest of your
upbringing? That's a youth fault.
That's not in her fault. And justify your actions.
Exactly, exactly. And that was one thing also that
with a lot of rehab places and alot of recovery, as I find it's
very victimhood mentality. I don't know if you've seen that
a lot, but it's well, this happened to me.

(16:21):
Well, you know what, there's people that have had way worse
and they've never done drugs, you know what I mean?
So yes, did that affect me? Absolutely.
But I was the one that chose to do drugs.
I was the one that chose to selfharm.
I was the one that did all this.Was there reason behind it?
Sure. OK, but who we kidding?

(16:43):
When my mom did what she did, she didn't realize that it was
gonna impact me to this degree. But I also can't be blaming her
as well because she didn't tell me do the drugs.
I was the one that couldn't dealwith the pain.
So I was like, screw this. Let me find a way out.
You know what I mean? So it was kind of wow, I'm sorry
I got so heated. It's so weird.

(17:04):
Like my God, I know, sorry, but it's it's so crazy to think that
we as addicts or X addicts or I guess we're still addicts.
I guess I don't know what to say.
Like, I don't know X addicts. I consider myself an.
Addict. Yeah, right.
Like I was an addict. I'm an addict.
Whatever. Same thing.
It was still our fault. Yes, pain happened to us, but we

(17:26):
had the option. Like I look at my sister, for
instance. Her and I have the same
upbringing, same life. She's completely fine with
substances, you know what I mean?
So it was kind of like I was theone that took it.
And yes it was painful but againI was the one that chose to self
destruct instead of being like this happened to me make it

(17:47):
better. I used it as a crutch to keep
doing the bullshit that I was doing.
And then keep telling yourself that it's okay if everybody had
their mom leave them, they woulduse too, right?
They would shoot heroin, they would take meth, whatever.
Whatever your thing is. Right.
Yeah, but turns out a lot of people had moms leave and they
were like, no, Mary, it was justyou.
So you got to stop using that excuse as your crutch because

(18:10):
then you'll never get better. And oddly enough is we have a
very complicated relationship, her and I, and still tell this
day sometimes I'm like, wait a second, I'm blaming her.
That's not cool. That's not cool.
I'm the one self destructing because I can't manage my own
emotions. Sure it affected me, but I also

(18:31):
got to take ownership for the shit that I've.
Caught. Yeah, there's, there's a a few
things. It's a great point.
Sorry. I went off.
No, you're good. I I think it's a, it's an
important topic because yeah, it's, I was taught when I came
in that we have a part in everything in our lives, right.
The other thing too, is like, you know, your mom leaves you,
your dad leaves you, your husband, whatever leaves you,

(18:57):
it's done. It's already happened, right?
So, like, why am I still dwelling in it?
There's a lot of healing that has to be done, right?
But what's my part in it? Well, OK, you know, I went to a
lot of people might not like this, but there's even a part.
So I went to treatment with a guy.
He's a beautiful, beautiful human being.

(19:18):
He was sexually abused when he was a kid and he was so angry,
so angry right when he came in the the transformation.
I watched this man go through, you know, having all this
resentment and victim and what do you like?
What do you mean? I have to do anything to heal
from this. What do you mean?
Like, no, it was her fault, their fault.
This this happened the his part in all of this.

(19:42):
And this is just my opinion. Like I said, a lot of people
might not like this, but what if, what if my part in that,
sure, it was a horrible thing that happened.
It doesn't, you know, give that person any right to do it.
It's a horrible thing should never have happened, but it did.
It happened. What if my part in it is not
forgiving that person, Right? And that's a really fucking hard
concept to comprehend. Why would I forgive them?

(20:03):
They win. Why would you know, there's this
ego thing that comes in and it'slike, well, resentment is like
drinking poison and hoping the other person dies.
That's right. So like I'm having this
resentment towards my mom. She's not even thinking about
it. I'm the only one suffering here.
Now what right, I, you know, I'mnot in control of what happens
in my life, but I'm, I'm in control of how I react to it,

(20:23):
you know, simple as that. So there's, there's a lot there
where it's like, and a girl cameon this podcast, you know, her
name's Ashley and she said it perfectly.
I love the way she said it. She 'cause she had sexual abuse
in her, her life, right? And you know, she's told this on
the podcast before she had to shift her mind and she had help
of a counselor from this victim mentality to survivor mentality.

(20:45):
And I love that. It's like a simple play on
words. It's like I'm not a victim, I'm
a survivor. I went through this.
Yes, it was hard, but now I havean experience to help and offer
other people that have been through it right. 1000% I think
we have this misconception that we're forgiving for them.
No, you're forgiving for yourself because if you don't
forgive yes, even though you areforgiving them, it's so that way

(21:10):
this doesn't hold the power overyou anymore.
And there's this misconception where, well, if I forgive them,
then all is done. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
You are forgiving so that way when you wake up the next day,
it's less painful for you. Forgiveness, yes, is to make the
other person feel good, sure. But deep, deep down, forgiveness

(21:31):
is for you to feel OK with beinghurt.
It's accepting. I've been hurt.
I forgive them. I may not forget, but I forgive
them because if I forgive them, I have peace.
And that's where we have this misconception where forgiveness
isn't for the other person, it'sactually for you to live in

(21:52):
peace and harmony. As cheesy as those two words
sound, it's. True, though.
Yeah. No, it's true.
Excuse me? Yeah, it's and it's a great
point, right, Because a lot of us come in here with trauma and
you know, you, you articulated it well.
It's like you were justifying itand and healing, you know, that
was your medicine, right? Was was whatever.
So what, what can you kind of talk about like what a day

(22:15):
looked like in addiction versus what a day looks like now, if
you remember that far? What a yes yes.
Especially not with my whole baby brain, which is actually a
real thing. After you have kids, you
literally lose your memory. OK so me being an addict, I
literally woke up every day justtrying to get high.

(22:36):
I was trying to chase away the pain.
I woke up, I felt extremely suicidal.
I wanted to ignore the suicidal thoughts for drugs and anytime
any sort of depression or suicide hit I would just numb
the pain. It was very easy for me to just
look and numb the pain Now when I'm suicidal, which is every

(22:56):
fucking morning when I wake up. Because unfortunately that's one
of my issues is I do with constant suicidal ideologies,
which is why I'm up running 10 kilometers a day.
Because if I don't get up and move my body and give myself
that sort of endorphin, I know I'm going to chase something
else. So I'm very much on just taking
care of my mind, body and soul. Whether that's going out with

(23:18):
friends, obviously sober, or whether that's going to a movie
or whether that's just sitting at home on the couch with my
husband or my daughter. I'm just looking at things that
give me happiness without that happiness, if that makes sense.
Because I'll be honest with you,I was fucking happy when I was

(23:39):
doing drugs. But I mean, who wouldn't be?
You're numbing the pin and you're in La La land.
I was having the time of my life.
So there are moments where, don't get me wrong, they're
still that monkey, they're stillthat itch.
But I also know that I have way too much now to lose.
I have a little girl, I have my friends, I have my family.

(23:59):
I have people that I guess always relied on me, but I never
realized that they did. And I was just like, they don't
need me. They don't need me around.
And it was very much like almostlike a cry for help without me
realizing that I was like, does nobody see how fucked up I am or
how messed up I am Now I don't care people see how messed up or
fucked up I am as long as I get up and I do what I have to do

(24:22):
kind of thing. So now when that monkey creeps
up on me and I say monkey because I don't know how else,
but when that monkey creeps up on me and I can feel it, I'm
like, you're going for a run, oryou're going to, as cliche as
the sounds, meditate, or you're going to go to church on Sunday,
or you're going to just sit withthe feeling.

(24:44):
And as much as the feeling sucks, if you don't sit with the
feeling and you keep running from it, you're going to end up
running right back into drugs. Yeah, and it ends up ultimately
blowing up in your face, right, to A to a more intense degree.
So you've been in addiction yourself.
You've also dealt with a loved one in addiction, right, And had

(25:05):
addiction around you while beingsober, right?
And probably both, right. What can you talk about what
that's like? And I don't know, just I talk
with a lot of families and it's tough, right?
It's really hard to watch someone do that to themselves,
especially when you know the answer, right?
You're like, I always say this, but it's like there's a river,

(25:26):
you're on the other side of the river and you have the bridge.
It's like just, dude, just crossthe bridge.
Like this is the answer. And on the other side, it's like
they don't see the bridge, right?
And I was like that too. I didn't see the bridge.
It was just a a Moat and water and sharks, right?
What's what's dealing with a loved one in an addiction like?
And how did you navigate that? It's crazy.

(25:47):
The addicts gets praised like wewere saying, and the families
forget how much praise they get.It is fucking challenging to sit
there and watch your loved ones literally destroy their life.
And you know what can happen if they don't get the help they
need? And I'll be honest with you, I
enabled a lot of the behavior because I didn't, because I had

(26:08):
been an addict myself. I was like, you know what,
you're going to get better. We're going to like, I enabled a
lot of it rather than saying, no, this is not acceptable.
No, instead it was I had a soft spot because nobody else
understood like I did. So I was like, how do I come
down on my loved one when they are going to be like, well,

(26:32):
weren't you in this position? So it was, it was very
challenging because there were moments where I was like, oh, my
goodness, was I like this with my family?
Was I this unhinged, unlogical human being?
And it became extremely challenging because instead of
me putting my foot down, I was like, you know what, we'll try

(26:55):
again tomorrow or I understand. And it was like, Mary, what the
fuck are you doing? That's not what you're supposed
to do. And oddly enough is there's been
a few loved ones and a few that actually ended up unfortunately
where I've had to go to the funeral.
And I wish that I was able to belike, what the fuck are you

(27:16):
doing? And thank God with this loved
one, I was able to think like, thank God.
But there were a few that unfortunately, I didn't know how
to do it because when you're on both sides, it's much more
challenging because your empathetic part comes out.

(27:36):
And trying to stay sober in thischaos was very challenging.
But also hit me, if I'm this person's safe spot in this
person's safe zone, then I better fucking hold it together
because if we both fall, then I'm not that person that they
can run to anymore. And there were a lot of times

(27:58):
where I was like, Oh my gosh, what am I doing?
But I was like, but if I don't do this, this person has nobody
else. So it was very, very challenging
and it was a very tug of war to deal with that.
Some of my loved ones had similar addictions and some of
them didn't which made a lot more easier especially when it

(28:18):
wasn't the same addiction as me and I say easier as if it was
like a walk in the park but it didn't trigger my monkey as
other. Oh, I see.
OK, Yeah. Like as other loved ones, like
if your issue is alcohol, it won't trigger me if I see
alcohol, but if I see a bag of cocaine on the table I need to

(28:41):
get the fuck out because I don'thave that willpower.
How did you ultimately get them help into treatment into like,
what was the final? How did you do that?
How did you bridge the gap? To be honest with you, with this
one individual, God bless them, they were able to figure it out

(29:02):
themselves. They had hit rock bottom and it
was like, I'm going and I was like, good for you.
I support it. It was, it was this person
extremely insightful and very emotionally intelligent.
And that's one thing that I actually was kind of envious
about was because I didn't have that emotional intelligence to

(29:24):
realize what I was doing was actually wrong.
So they knew right away that I needed to get the help.
They just, I think, needed all of us to come together and be
like, we're here for you, which is actually, to be honest with
you, quite admirable. I didn't have that.
I had to completely hit rock bottom.
Yeah. Bang your head a few times,
right? I think, and a lot of people

(29:45):
don't like hearing this because they want the answer, like I'm
talking about loved ones. But to me it sounds like all you
did was show up, right? And that that's more than
enough. Like that's really all you have
to do, but you also have to set boundaries where it's no, I'm
not going to enable this. No, this is not like if this
continues, we can't be friends or we can't live under the same

(30:06):
roof or we can't. There's so many different.
What? So yeah, what what does enabling
look like versus support now? Is, I would say enabling is
allowing the self deprecation and allowing the justifying.
Well, this happened to me so This is why.
OK, great. I agree it sucks that happened
to you. So let's go to therapy and talk

(30:28):
about it. We're not going to grab a bottle
or we're not going to snort a line or we're not going to do
this or we're not going to. Do that, yeah.
And then to your point, it's like if they cross said
boundary, it's like, you know, you got it.
My wife had to get to a point where you're not following the
rules in this house. They're very simple rules.
They're not hard to follow, right?
It was, you know, stay sober, attempt sobriety to some degree.
And for me, it was like going to12 step recovery because she

(30:50):
knew that that worked for me before.
I want to see you putting in thework, right?
And she wasn't asking for a lot,but I couldn't, I couldn't keep
up with it. So I couldn't do it because like
I said that that river in the middle was just like, I couldn't
crossover, right? It was like too hard for me at
the time. I didn't want to even start.
And so she, we went to therapy to your, to your point.
And I remember sitting in my therapist's office, our, our

(31:12):
marriage counselor, therapist, whatever you want to say.
And like she was straight up just calling me out, right?
Because she knew that I had, I could handle it.
But also I, I had been in recovery before, so it wasn't a
new concept to me. She's like, you're being a
little boy. And I looked her in the eyes and
I said, I know I agree with you.I can't stop though.
Like I just can't fathom being sober right now because it's so

(31:33):
hard. Like I said, she said, well, you
know, and they can, you know, we're gonna, you're not
following the rules of the house.
Like I said, we're gonna have tokick you out, right.
And Rebecca, this is Rebecca saying that to me.
I'm gonna have and it was the hardest thing for her to do.
She reminds me today. She's like, it was so hard for
me to kick you out knowing that you had a a chance of dying out
there, right? It was so hard.

(31:53):
But ultimately she's like, I'm really happy I did it because it
brought me to a new bottom and Iwaved the white flag a little
bit earlier. 100% like one of one of my loved ones that was
struggling, which I dabbled intospeaking about it.
It was one of my best friends. She was or they were a sorry
they were a heavy drinker. And I remember I explained to

(32:16):
this person, if you continue to do this, our friendship is done
and for about a year and a half we didn't speak.
Obviously they got sober and they became a significantly, I
don't want to say better person,but they became who they were
always meant to be. Now we are very close, but for a
year and a half I said I cannot have this around me.

(32:39):
And it was very challenging for me to cut off people that have
been friends for so long. But as I was watching them self
destruct, I was like, listen, you're not taking what I'm
saying seriously. So maybe if I completely back it
up and stay out of your life, maybe, just maybe, you'll
comprehend and clue in. And it's funny because years
down the road later, she still tells me you're the only one

(33:01):
that never actually left. I said I was never leaving you.
I was just on the sidelines watching you fall on your face
because I couldn't be front and center watching it anymore.
Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, but it's
your point. It's like I'll always be here
when you decide to get help, right?
Soon, the minute my phone rings and you're saying I hey, I'm
done. I I want some help.
Like I'll be there for you. I'll be the first one to run.

(33:26):
What's something today, Mary, that you're actively working on
about yourself? Taking ownership for my shitty
behaviors because don't get me wrong, even though I'm sober I
still fuck up. Not in the substance part, but
in just. The life part.
Yes, exactly. And just taking ownership of my
actions and like I give my husband full credit.

(33:50):
I am sometimes not a pleasant person to deal with no honesty
truly, truly. I'm not like I give him full,
full credit. I'm not a sweetheart that you
see right now. Sometimes I can be completely
unhinged and I mean when I wouldget unhinged, I would resort
back to drugs. Now obviously I can't especially

(34:11):
I just can't do that now to my husband or to my daughter.
It's not fair to the both of them.
Like they didn't sign up for me to go back to my old ways.
So it's every day is a challengebecause every day I have to try
and be a better person. And sometimes when that monkey
tries to creep up. And so I just been like, listen,
I feel like I want to use again.I'm so ashamed that I'm just

(34:32):
like, fuck off, stop talking to me.
And I'm like, Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
I didn't actually mean to just lose my shit on you.
Yeah. Saying, saying sorry, but then
actually meaning it. So to me today, like making
amends is very different than saying sorry, right?
I was very good at the saris before.
I've said a million of them. I practice it in the mirror a
million times. Not actually, but I've, I've
practiced it enough with people where I could say sorry to

(34:54):
anybody, right? But I didn't, I would just do it
again, you know. And so today, making amends,
living men's is a big one for metoo, where it's like I'm, you
know, that. Let me think of an example.
That person, I don't know, in that one time I was staying in a
hotel and a very expensive one around here because I was a

(35:14):
baller, right? And that's what put me in so
much debt. You know, when I was when I was
in my relapse, I was like, I'm going to go all out and I'm
going to stay at the, I've neverstayed at the, you know, fancy
hotels in Toronto. So I'm going to do that.
And I did it over Christmas, andit was horrible over New Year's
and Christmas. And there was a guy there that,
like, brings your stuff up to your room.
I'm blanking on the name for that guy.
Concierge, maybe. I don't know.

(35:36):
Bellboy. Bellboy maybe.
Yeah. But he was much more fancy than
that. Anyways, he came up to my room
and I was like, hey, man, you want to, like, drink?
Because this is what I do. I bring people down.
Right. And he's like, yeah, sure.
And he came and sat down and, like, we had a few drinks, and
he went back to work, like, after having a few drinks,
Right. So something, you know, simple
like that, where it's like I was, I can't really go back and

(35:58):
make amends to that guy. And that seems like a small
example. You know, I've, I've done a lot
of worse than that. But it's like, like things like
that that you would just never do.
It's like put people in vulnerable situations to lose
their job or, or bring people down with you.
You know, maybe he was an alcoholic and I made him
relapse, you know, anyways, you never know, right?
So I can make a living amends tothat today.
And that's like, I'm not going to repeat those behaviors of

(36:20):
bringing people down. You know, that's I've brought in
a lot of people with me, whetherit was with ketamine, you know,
ketamine was a big one where I would always have it or cocaine
like we were talking about before, or, or meth, you know, I
had them in pills. I was always giving them to
people. And like, you know, I don't have
to bring people down with me today, right?
I can live amends and, and live a sober life and make amends

(36:43):
that way. I'm not repeating the behavior
over and over again, you know? Yeah, that's.
Actually, one of the hardest things to actually openly admit
is like you were at fault. I'm wrong?
Yeah, that's a that's a huge thing in recovery that I feel
like not even just recovery, even just like mental health.

(37:04):
I feel like, because again, I feel like everyone forgets,
addiction to mental health actually come hand in hand and I
feel like everyone forgets that usually.
I mean, I can't speak on you, but I feel like the majority of
people that I've walked and the loved ones that I know that I've
suffered is it was either some sort of anxiety or depression

(37:25):
and they couldn't handle it. So instead of owning it insane,
I'm depressed or I'm anxious. It was let me take the bottle or
let me take this pill or let me do this or let me do that
because at least then they were numbing the pain rather than
actually being like, I'm depressed because it's a lot
harder to take ownership of youractions rather than.

(37:46):
Isn't that crazy, though, that it's like, it's so much easier
to go out and go on a Bender than it is to just say, hey, I
need help and I and then to do the work to fix it.
Right. Just blows my mind.
But yeah, I mean, I, I, yeah, like looking back, it's like,
yeah, that's that's all I was good at doing was just the quick
fix the Band-Aid, right? I won everything yesterday.

(38:07):
Something that I'm working on today is greed, like a big
character defect of mine is greed, right?
And then like this kind of ungratefulness, like anger,
opposite of gratitude. I don't know, maybe anger where
it's like I should be making more money, I should be doing
this. And I kind of fall back into
this. Why isn't my podcast blowing up

(38:27):
more or my social media or you know what I mean?
And it's like, that's something that I actively have to work on
tonight. I, I do this thing where I wake
up in the morning and I pray about it and I talk to like
whatever universe higher power that I have.
And it's like, just help me be myself today, Help me be
authentic, help me be the man I'm was meant to be.
And then help me work on like mycharacter defects.

(38:49):
I call them these things that I'm actively working on.
That's just a big one for me today.
And it's not easy, right? Like, I fall back into it a lot
because instead of drugs, we pick up these character defects
a lot where it's like to heal your pain, you know, snapping on
someone at the grocery store is kind of like a coping mechanism,
right? And it it just comes out
sideways, you know? I literally, it's funny, I have

(39:09):
to go back to anger management because I'm realizing as my
daughter has healed a bunch of wounds, but he's opened up a lot
of wounds and I'm realizing thatI'm a very fucking angry person
and I need to really control my anger.
I mean, I don't take it out on my husband, which sometimes I
do, but for the majority part, Idon't.
I take it out on my dad and my sister.

(39:31):
They get the, they get it all the time.
My mom doesn't get it as much actually, but I give it to my
dad and my sister. And I feel really awful saying
that. But the longest time they were
all I had and they're the only ones that never left me.
So Even so, now's this day when my mom upsets me because let's

(39:54):
face it, parents will always upset you.
I take it out on them. And instead of me being like,
you know what sheeps at me, I need to just sit with the
emotion. I'm like, well, fuck you, dad,
fuck you, Nicole. I'm not at the both of you,
Papa. How dare you let her speak to me
that way. And it's like, but Mary, we
can't control what she says and what she does.

(40:15):
Only you can control how you react.
I'm like, well, and then I get so like defensive and angry.
And it's funny because I'm starting to realize like.
I'm not using but my behavior isjust as bad as if I was using if
that. Makes sense.
Yeah. Recovery is not just stopping
drinking and drugs, right. It's no, there's a whole, you

(40:37):
know, litany of things that we have to do because if, you know,
people might think to themselveslike, well, what's the big deal
if I'm losing my mind on people or like, at least I'm not using
drugs, right? And it's I think a lot of people
failed to make the connection between my.
Line when I was younger was at least I'm not using it my dad
like OK, but you're shin on us for literally asking if you want

(40:59):
cheese on your burger. Yeah, I was like.
Right, You're, you're terrible to be around, right?
It's like we, we are, we're on egg shells around you.
But people don't, I think a lot of people don't make the
connection that if I'm continuing that behavior, I'm
going to be using drugs in no time because I don't, I don't
like being a bad person. I don't like pissing people off.
I don't like, and then people are going to stop coming around
me. You know, I'm going to be the

(41:19):
last person to know that I'm an asshole, which is like the word.
I don't know if you've ever beenin that situation where you're
like the last person to know that you're an asshole.
I really had no idea. I'm like what Or you're?
Being an asshole. Sorry, yeah.
I'm a prick. They're like, yeah, you don't
realize I was like or the whole like, we can't tell you things
because you got so angry make about you.
And I'm like, first of all, thatwas hard to swallow because I

(41:43):
was like, excuse you, what the hell you're saying.
And then I got defensive and I realized, Oh my God, look at how
you're acting. No wonder why people are saying
that. And then it was, it was, I don't
want to say funny, but funny to say that when I got clean, me
having to deal with my suicidal ideologies became even more
real. To the point where once I got

(42:06):
clean, I still ended up going back in the psych ward because I
realized I was never actually dealing with my situations.
I was just bandying it with drugs.
And then once I got clean, I realized I'm still depressed.
I'm still suicidal. So obviously doing drugs was

(42:28):
just a Band-Aid and although it made me feel good, it didn't
actually. I still struggle everyday with
suicide ideologies. And there's no moments where I
said to my husband, like, I don't think I can do this
anymore. And he was like, I understand.
I mean, not fully, but I mean, Ican understand where you're
coming from. And he's been very supportive of

(42:49):
like, So what should we do? I was like, can we go for a walk
and grab some ice cream? Although it's not a quick fix,
it's a little distraction to getmy mind off of how suicidal I
really. Truly am so I got so dark for a
second. No, no, it's a depression.
I I don't think we talk. You know, when I started this
podcast, I wanted to do addiction mainly, but I also
wanted to bring in other mental health.

(43:10):
And one of the reasons I, you know, wanted to have you on here
is like depression is a real thing that for a lot of people
that don't struggle with drugs and alcohol.
You take away the drugs and alcohol now it's like boom,
depression amplified times 1000 every day.
So how do I deal with it? Right.
How do you deal with it? You talk about going for ice
cream, distracting yourself. And I know that it might sound
very well. What the fuck?

(43:30):
Like you're listening to this and you're like, the fuck is
going for ice cream you're goingto do.
But you know what it's like. You'd be surprised that just
like a little bit of distractionI can fully understand.
Yeah, like or or this need for routine.
Like it's funny because I make fun of all these Wellness
creators for like, oh, tab your Masha in the morning and do this
and do that. I'm like listen as much as I'm

(43:51):
shit on them and make fun of them, there is some truth.
Like you need routine. Like I'm sure you learned in
rehab, routine and structure is very important.
But like routine and structure doesn't mean having a fucking
matcha and chia seeds. It means going outside for a
walk, getting 8 hours of sleep, showering, making your bed,
keeping your space clean. Like who would have thought?

(44:13):
Like the basics that they teach you in kindergarten are actually
like skills that you need to survive.
And that's something that I feellike people forget is like once
you get clean and sober, you're not done.
There's still so much more to do, like having to wake up every
day and doing a simple task. Like every morning I wake up and

(44:33):
I make my bed. People are like that is like.
What's the big deal? Yeah.
And it's like when you come homefrom a shitty day and at least
your environment's clean, you'relike, Oh my God.
Because like, look, there's dayswhere I come home and like,
don't get me wrong. Like I am fed up with the world.
But then I look at my house and I'm like, OK, it's clean.

(44:55):
One less thing for me to like. Snap about at least something is
in order, right? The the world doesn't make
sense, but my house makes sense.Exactly.
Something is in order. Exactly or or this whole need
for routine, like as much as it's really been like wake up at
5:00 AM, brush your teeth, go toPilates, go to this, go to that.

(45:16):
As much as I make fun of it, there is also some deep down
truth to having routine and structure.
I'm not saying wake up and go toa reformer Pilates or do me and
run 1015 KA day. But if you have some kind of
structure and routine, at least when that monkey comes, whether
it's addiction or depression, you're like, you know what?

(45:38):
I have a routine I need to stickby.
And this is one thing that I feel like there's this
misconception where like when you have depression, it's hard
to take care of somebody else when you can't take care of
yourself. And yes and no, because like, I
was in the psychiatric ward at ayoung age.
My first admission was I was 13 to 14.

(46:00):
There was a nurse slash teacher Teresa.
She's literally why I graduated.Let me tell you something.
Teresa would knock on my door saying you got chemistry to
finish, let's get up, let's go. And the reason was because when
you were in there for a month, the world doesn't stop just
because you're in rehab or you're in the psych ward.
So it was very crazy to see how I still have to get my shit

(46:22):
together for school because whenI got out of the psych ward, I
had to go back to school. The assignments were still
piling up, the the tests were still coming.
So if I came out with nothing done, do you know how much more
anxiety provoking, how much morestressful that would have been?
Yeah. You're behind on life.
Right, exactly. So it's crazy to see how we live

(46:44):
in this world where it's like you're depressed.
That's OK, Sit down in your bed for five days.
I am so sorry. I don't know any psychiatric or
the suit to sit in your bed for five days.
You're like, get your ass up anddo what you got to do.
Because guess what? Your world outside is still
moving and eventually you're going to get back out there.
And if you get back out there and you're not ready, you're

(47:04):
coming right back in. And trust me, you don't want to
go back in. And it's going to be worse, too.
Exactly. Because you're more behind.
Exactly like she used to knock on my door.
Mary, we got chemistry. I'm like, but I don't want to.
OK, fantastic. Let's go.
Like it was very much like, I don't want to shower.
OK, well, you smell, So what areyou going to do?

(47:26):
It was very like, you don't wantto do it.
Woo Hoo. Get in line.
Yeah, no one wants to do it. Yeah, and then and then, oddly
enough, is when you end up feeling better.
You're like, man, am I glad I atleast did the bare minimum.
So I when I got back out into the world, at least my ducks

(47:47):
were in a row. They weren't just scattered
everywhere. You know, it's a there's a lot
of good stuff there routine, being regimented.
One thing I liked and you know, IA big part of my life.
I used to run marathons too, andlong distances when I was
training for those, I found a lot of motivation in like David

(48:08):
Goggins. He's a, you know, Navy SEAL guy
that my. Husband's obsessed.
He's great. Obsessed.
He read his books. Yeah, he.
He tries to make me run without headphones.
I'm like you've. Lost.
I do that. Yeah, No, no, no, no, no.
Because I get stuck in my thoughts.
No, no, I need my music on. No, I can't do it.
I love. It he used to talk about, he
used to always say like, like and sure, you know, say what you
want about him from a mental health perspective.
A lot of people criticize him for not whatever, I don't care.

(48:30):
It helps me. He used to say like nobody is
coming to save you. No ones coming to save you,
right? Sure.
It sounds harsh, but it's true. Like I'm, you know, I'm going
through something right now. Sure, my mom can and my wife can
show up all they want, right? And be like, it's OK, honey, you
know it's going to be OK. But at the end of the day,
they're not going to pull me outof bed and get me to go to work

(48:51):
or to go to the gym. It's like they have to.
Yeah, that too, right? I don't want them doing that.
Exactly. It's like I have to come to a
point where it's like, listen, buddy, like it's you and me and
that's it. You know, you can choose your
two options. You can choose to suffer.
You know, pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional.
I love that one. It's like you can pain's gonna
happen no matter what. I'm gonna walk out of here
today. Something bad's gonna happen for

(49:12):
the rest of the day. And it's how I react that that,
you know, I can choose to sit init.
Suffering is like, Oh my God, I can't believe that thing
happened to me. Well, you know, poor me, my life
sucks. How am I gonna get through this?
Oh, my God. Like, you know, I'm gonna do
nothing, blah, blah, blah, blah.All this shit in my head.
It's up to me to to react to it,right?
I want to talk about like, you know, so nine years is a long

(49:34):
time. Can you talk about, you know,
some tough times where maybe youknow, you were close to relapse
or did you ever have any momentslike that where it's like you
came close or like you really struggled, whereas like you
almost picked up or or drank or.Yes, COVID.
Yeah, yeah, I got through COVID sober too.

(49:56):
Actually, I was completely soberthrough COVID.
COVID, it was comical. I could meet you in aisle 3 at
Loblaws, but I couldn't go for therapy because it just at that
time it wasn't yet ready for virtual because of how quickly
COVID hit. So I thought it was comical that
the marijuana store underneath my condo was open, the LCBO was

(50:19):
open, but I couldn't go. To group or the gym.
Yeah, I couldn't do some. I couldn't do things that made
me feel good. But if I want to go downstairs
and smoke a joint, no problem. But if I want to go to a
meeting. No, yeah.
None. That was COVID for I think a lot

(50:39):
of people who even weren't addicts.
But I'm dabbled in alcohol or marijuana or whatever.
I feel like COVID really amplified because all I would do
was set home and drink or smoke weed.
There was nothing else to do. And the second time was being
pregnant. Pregnancy sucked for me,
honestly. I had prenatal depression.

(51:00):
Obviously I couldn't partake in it because I was pregnant.
And during COVID, I couldn't partake in it because there was
so much societal pressure, because growing up European,
you're doing so well. If I let that monkey win, it
would have been a whole situation.
So I allowed, oddly enough, was I allowed pressure to keep me

(51:25):
sober and I allowed being pregnant to keep me sober
because obviously there was no way I was going to fuck that one
up. So there were two times where my
depression got really bad. And again, it was always for me,
I use a lot of the times becauseof my mental health issues.
It wasn't even when I was raving, I was raving to chase

(51:49):
something away. Everything was always to chase
the feelings that I was having or to get rid of whatever was
going on at the time, whether that had been my psychotic
episodes or whether I that had been any form of my psychiatric

(52:09):
issues that would have come up. I didn't want to deal with them.
So I was like, take drugs, because if you take drugs, those
psychiatric issues seem to just decrease.
Yeah, it's almost like I always say it's like the volume button,
right? Drugs and alcohol for me, it was
like it just turned down the volume in my head for a moment,
you know where it was. Like, you know, nothing

(52:31):
mattered, right? Yesterday didn't matter.
Tomorrow doesn't matter. I don't care.
I'm living right now. This is fun, right?
Or this feeling for some reason you forget that like I was just
crying for two hours. I want to end my life now.
I'm like, oh, I'm a high. This is great.
But then the come down is a fucking nightmare.
And then God forbid we do with the come down.

(52:52):
So what we keep doing? Yeah, that cycle, right.
I know it'll fix this. And then, yeah, I mean, that is
drug use, you know, in a in a nutshell, right.
Essentially, it's like the circle, you know, the monkey
wheel. As you I mentioned, I wanted to,
I, I was thinking about this as you were talking to because
we're alike in that alcohol wasn't our main thing, right?
I, I was the same way where it'slike alcohol for me.

(53:14):
It's like I just when I would have it, it was like I could not
stop thinking about what was next, whether it be benzos, you
know, cocaine, anything. I was like, oh boy, like, let's
go. It started the kind of engine,
right. So I, I consider myself an
alcoholic today. How did you come in?
A lot of people struggle with this.
I find I was able to admit this was me too in 23 at 23.

(53:35):
Yeah, I'm a drug addict. The all the evidence is there.
I I get it. Yep.
Drug addict. Check.
I get it. Stop using cocaine.
OK, I'm in right. I that was ruining my life.
I'm not an alcoholic though, right?
I could probably have one drink.How did you how did you deal
with that? That how did you come to a
realization where you realized that all mood and mind altering
substances were the same and that you were going to stay away

(53:57):
from alcohol? That was actually quite easy
because when I was drinking the next day, I felt like a bag of
shit. So I was like, Oh my God, this
is the same feeling I have when I was doing drugs.
So it's funny, when I got clean,I was still drinking wine here
and there with my friends because to me, I can have a

(54:19):
glass of wine and not have a glass of wine for three years.
Like alcohol was never and like still not to this day.
Mind you, I don't drink, but I mean, if I were to partake in a
glass, I could have one glass and then I'm done because for
some reason I never got that high from alcohol.

(54:41):
So therefore, because I never got what I wanted to meet
alcohol was just to be social, Iwould have a glass of wine.
So I'm a very lightweight when it comes to alcohol, not to
drugs. When it comes out, I'm a very
lightweight. I would have one glass of wine.
I was feeling tipsy. The next morning I was
completely depressed. I was like what the fuck am I
doing? I was like, Mary, this is

(55:02):
exactly like drugs. That was probably triggering too
I bet. Right?
Like those feelings would trigger you to want to use
drugs. Interesting.
It was yeah, it was very weird because like though for me out
so funny enough is a lot of my loved ones that are in recovery,
all of their, I don't want to say their substance issues.

(55:23):
That's so wrong to say, but all of their monkeys were alcohol.
So I could be around that and itnever bothered me because to me
I didn't like alcohol. I didn't like the taste of it.
I don't know what it was actually.
I do know what it was. I have an underlining eating

(55:44):
disorder so or had or have or. I don't know how the fuck you
want to describe it but alcohol was calories.
Very stupid mentality for me to think, but alcohol was calories
so drinking alcohol was. Like eating a cheeseburger.
And then because I would be drunk, I would be hungry that I

(56:07):
would want a cheeseburger. So I would end up the next day
feeling like a bloated bag of shit, which then made me spiral
down to Oh my God, I had one glass of wine, had 20 chicken
Nuggets. Now I feel like complete ass
physically. I'm mentally depressed.

(56:27):
I was like, this is not, this isnot for me at all.
So it was easy for me to just belike alcohol.
No. So it's funny, like if there was
alcohol around us today, yeah, Icould care less.
So even in social situations youdid you have problems with that
where it's like, cuz I know for me in the beginning, it's like I

(56:48):
feel like I everyone's looking at me.
People are noticing I'm not drinking when in, in retrospect,
in hindsight, nobody gives a fuck, right?
They're too busy thinking about themselves and worried about
their own drinking. Or if people came up to me and
said, hey, why aren't you drinking?
That's kind of weird. It's usually because they had a
problem with it or simply it wastheir problem.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So was that was that tough for
you or is it tough for you today?

(57:09):
To be honest with you, no, it itwas tough for me to get back out
into the rave scene and be sober.
Drinking alcohol wasn't because I never really drank.
So Mary not drinking. Big fucking deal.
It's Mary not drinking. It was never that.

(57:31):
It was never that itch for me. But going back to thinking
people give a shit about you, it's funny because we all think
we're the main characters. I can tell you right now I was
doing cartwheels for shits and giggles in the Athens airport to
calm down my daughter. This past week.
Yeah, yeah, literally like a fewdays ago.
I can tell you something. Nobody, Gee, they nobody looked

(57:54):
at me. Nothing.
It calmed down my daughter. But I can.
I'm sure you like maybe someone looked at me but like I don't
give a fuck. Like it's crazy how we're like,
Oh my God, people are watching me.
Like I'm so sorry. Like I'm sorry.
Like unless you're like Joe Burrow or like I'm sorry, like
Tom Brady, like no one's looking.

(58:15):
I'm so sorry. No one is looking at you.
I can assure you, I can assure you, like people are so consumed
with are people looking at me that they don't even notice What
the hell are you doing? Yeah.
Exactly, That's great. I just pictured you doing
cartwheels in the airport. Do you have a video of it?

(58:37):
No, actually. I should have, you know what,
actually we're travelling in a few weeks with my daughter and
my husband. So I will actually do cartwheels
on purpose so that way people can see like nobody gives a
shit. People are so consumed with
their own lives that nobody cares.
And that's the problem is I feellike everyone's like, oh,
they're watching me. Listen, if you're that because

(59:00):
you're about people watching youput a fucking soda in your hand,
put a lime in or a lemon. And just because I know also a
lot of people are very uncomfortable with sharing, I
can't drink or I can't that and like, I respect that.
I completely respect that. So if you don't want to deal
with that situation, put a soda water in your hand, put a lime

(59:26):
in it, and no, I'm gonna know the difference, I can tell you.
That's what I do and because I enjoy soda water but also it
just eliminates any. Any.
Questions and it just makes my life easier.
Yeah, exactly like. And I'm hydrated.
Yeah, exactly. Like, yeah, or, or like they'll
go to the bar and be like, can Ihave a Coke and then with the
Coke and put a lime in there. People think you're drinking rum

(59:47):
and Coke. Not that I support that
illusion, but I also respect people not feeling secure.
So if you don't feel secure, I respect that.
I'm nobody to be like, no you whatever.
Do what you got to do to get through that social event.
And I know some people might disagree.
Like I know for a lot of people they say like don't even drink

(01:00:11):
non alcoholic beer. I have a lot of loved ones that
were Alcoholics but they love the taste of beer, not alcohol.
So they literally drink non alcoholic beer all the time.
OK cool. They'll literally show up at
parties with their own 6 pack ofnon alcoholic beer.

(01:00:34):
Amazing. Like do whatever makes you feel
comfortable. And that's why I get so upset
with rehab. But not just rehab, just that
whole bubble. It's like, well, you cannot go
to a bar when you're 3 months sober, no.
If you have the willpower to sitthere and drink a Coke with no

(01:00:54):
rum and you can hang out with your boys or your girls, why
not? And you have the exit plan, the
support system in place. Exactly when we I find that when
we shelter the attic too much, we're actually doing more harm
than good. Like I respect the whole don't
drink a non alcoholic beer but if the person is drinking non

(01:01:15):
alcoholic beer over and over andover again and it doesn't faze
them, it actually makes them more comfortable Because I know
a lot of loved ones where they drink because of their social
anxiety. So if they have a non alcoholic
beer in their hand, no one's going.
To say shit. And also too, if you're at a
point where that non alcoholic Jesus that non alcoholic beer is

(01:01:37):
saving you from shooting heroin in the bathroom, fucking more
power to you buddy. Like you know what I mean?
And like, yeah, like and like, OK.
Or like when people leave rehab and like, well, they're smoking
cigarettes. I'd rather me smoking a fucking
pack a day. Like, not that I condone lung
cancer. Like, like, that's not what I'm

(01:01:58):
saying. But I'm also saying like.
One thing at a time. Yeah, exactly.
Every time I left rehab I was smoking and I quit all three
times, you know what I mean? Like it's, I'm okay.
Hopefully we'll see, yeah. I hate smoking now.
Yeah, like, okay, every time you're in the psychiatric ward,
I can tell you this, I picked upsmoking all the time.

(01:02:20):
Once I left the psych ward, I stopped smoking because again,
it was a social thing to do whenyou were dealing with a bunch of
shit. And it's not like you could do
much in the psych ward. So I mean, you would go for
walks and what'd you do? Hit your vape or have a
cigarette? It was just.
Something to. Do yeah, it was just something
to do and like yes, you're stillfeeding the addiction, but like

(01:02:40):
I'm sorry, I'd rather than nick an addiction than the heroin
addiction if I'm being totally. Transparent.
That's great, I want to end withthis.
If you could say something merryto someone suffering with
depression or suicidal ideations, what would you say?
Fuck. Oof, that's a hard one.

(01:03:03):
OK, I'm going to try not to tearup crap.
OK, Your mind is very good at playing tricks, don't let it
win. I'm telling you right now, you
are worth so much more alive than dead, and I would much
rather hear your story than hearit at your funeral if I'm being

(01:03:25):
completely transparent with you.So I'm sorry, I'm trying not to
cry. Just know that it's your mind
playing tricks on you. I'm telling you this for a fact.
We all need you here. We all want you here.
This is just that fucking monkeytelling you that the world is
better off without you, and the world is not better off without

(01:03:47):
you. The world is a far more shittier
place with you not in it. Sorry, I tried to cry.
That's. Beautiful.
Thank you. Thanks so much for coming down,
Mary. I appreciate you.
Thank you. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational

(01:04:09):
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.

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